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#rockbox log for 2009-02-07

00:05:50 Join BHSPitLappy [0] (n=BHSPitLa@unaffiliated/bhspitmonkey)
00:11:59 Quit ender` (" The only reason some people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory. -- Paul Fix")
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00:17:25QuintasanHiho, to who should I send a binary package for rbutil?
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00:34:17rasherQuintasan: try getting hold of Bagder
00:35:03 Join allele [0] (
00:36:19allelewill the rockbox compiler automatically will convert division by any power of 2 to a shift to the right command?
00:37:43Quintasanrasher: thanks
00:38:07rasherallele: the rockbox compiler is called gcc, and the answer is "probably maybe"
00:38:42 Quit insanepotato ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.6/2009011913]")
00:40:45alleleok, so my best bet is using the shift operators?
00:44:04rasherYou could try looking at the gcc output to see, it really should use shifts, but I've heard of gcc doing weirder things
00:50:43Unhelpfulkadoban: you're looking to display a menu of string labels that map to integer values, basically?
00:51:56Unhelpfulmcuelenaere: did i correctly understand that the MIPS clz instruction produces 32 for an input of 0? pictureflow should probably be using it in place of the C function on MIPS, then, as it does on ARMv5+
00:53:05kadobanUnhelpful: yes. i have it working of course, but it's ugly having to keep the strings and the numbers in line. an enum would help but i thought that i had seen a prettier way to do it all in the MENUITEM_STRINGLIST somewhere
00:53:37kadobanit may have been in my dreams as i can't seem to find it...
00:53:45mcuelenaereUnhelpful: yes it should, at least when I get around some storage for these devices :)
00:53:52 Quit allele ("Java user signed off")
00:54:02Unhelpfultake a look at pictureflow.c:album_name_menu - unless that's basically what you're already doing.
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00:56:10Unhelpfuldo you know what kind of multiplication we can do on MIPS? the scaler uses 40-bit unsigned multiplies, these are done via the emac on coldfire, and using C code that generates 32x32->64 multiplies on ARM. sh1 just operates at lower precision, using 8.24 instead of 8.32 math.
00:56:37kadobanUnhelpful: hmm, that's not half bad. thanks. that's basically what i was planning to do if there wasn't something better, but it looks nice in practice so i'll just do that.
00:57:20mcuelenaereUnhelpful: I'm not MIPS expert, but the datasheet does mention some special multiply+add etc instructions
00:58:55mcuelenaere10.7 Enhancements to the MIPS Architecture
00:59:03Unhelpfulkadoban: it looks to me like you could globalize the MENUITEM_STRINGLIST somewhere, and just call rb->do_menu directly - the caveat is that you will have to use an int instead of a "real" enum, because pointers to the two are not compatible.
01:00:00 Join rwong [0] (
01:00:11mcuelenaereUnhelpful: when doing multiplication and divison on MIPS, you need to get the result out of 2 'special' registers; and if I'm not mistaken they're both 32-bits big
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01:00:30 Quit mellery ("Ex-Chat")
01:00:48Unhelpfulmcuelenaere: if we're *really* lucky, then, gcc will do the right thing for MIPS as it does on ARM ;)
01:01:19mcuelenaerelet's hope so :) (perhaps we'll need to fiddle with -mtune and -march)
01:02:42Unhelpfuldo we have a programmer's manual for it? this looks like a marketing datasheet :/
01:03:24mcuelenaereUnhelpful: The MUL instruction multiplies two words and writes the result to a GPR. The 32-bit word value in the GPR rs is multiplied by the 32-bit value in the GPR rt, treating both operands as signed values, to produce a 64-bit result.
01:03:31mcuelenaereso it is 32x32->64?
01:04:22Unhelpfulso the output is in two registers?
01:05:09mcuelenaerewe'll, not directly; but they can be moved to two registers
01:05:32mcuelenaereUnhelpful: I can't seem to view that link, see if this one is better:
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01:06:29 Quit scorche (" rawr...that is all...rawr")
01:07:57Unhelpfulit looks like mul results go into the special-purpose lo/hi regs?
01:08:24 Quit miepchen^schlaf ()
01:09:06mcuelenaereUnhelpful: correct
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01:10:07Unhelpfulhrm... can i actually build one of our mips targets pretty easily? that would probably be the fastest way to see what gcc does. should work
01:10:53mcuelenaereor do you already have the compiler?
01:11:06mcuelenaereif so, you can build the Onda VX747 bootloader
01:12:34Unhelpfulhrm, only the bootloader?
01:13:59mcuelenaereyes, as there's no working storage driver there's no point in getting the main firmware to work..
01:15:36Unhelpfulah. so, if i want to see how the sort of math the scaler uses would compile, i need to inject it into the bootloader
01:16:01Unhelpfulor just put it in a test file, and compile that with the same flags we use for rockbox
01:16:12mcuelenaereyes, something like that
01:16:26mcuelenaerealthough you'll probably need a working config.h etc
01:20:56 Quit dfkt ("-= SysReset 2.53=- Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.")
01:23:51Unhelpfuleasiest to just add a test function to the bootloader...
01:24:04 Join yaoluislg [0] (n=chatzill@
01:24:27yaoluislgcan i dualboot rockbox and the original ipod firmware
01:24:35Unhelpfuli think the C math can stay, as on ARM. here's what it generates for MIPS:
01:24:56PaulJam__yaoluislg: yes, the procedure is described in the manual
01:25:18amiconnUnhelpful: gcc isn't *that* braindead ;) It does replace divisions by a power of two by shifts (with some fixup code if the division is signed)
01:25:21yaoluislgreally can i use the utitlty thing to install rockbox and will it still let me dualboot?
01:25:48kadobanyaoluislg: yes and yes
01:26:04yaoluislgum ok so i justr run the installer and thats it?
01:26:07mcuelenaereUnhelpful: how does this get handled on ARM? Does that also support 32x32?
01:26:31Unhelpfulmcuelenaere: pretty much exactly the same, except without special-purpose registers
01:27:02mcuelenaereoh ok, I didn't know that ARM could do something like this
01:27:29Unhelpfulamiconn: what needs fixed up, from a signed right shift? does division need to round toward 0?
01:28:35kadobanyaoluislg: rockbox actually requires the OF to be there actually, because you need that to transfer music to your ipod (rockbox has no USB released for ipod yet). you should read the installation section of the manual and browse the rest of it a bit. but yeah, installation is relatively painless.
01:29:22yaoluislgoks o if i use the installer utility it will install everything for me am i correct also will this let me play videos on say a 4th gen ipod?
01:30:20kadobanyaoluislg: read the installation instructions :). and look at the mpegplayer plugin section in the manual or the wiki, but yes it can play videos of specific format
01:30:31yaoluislgok thanks man
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02:38:59wemdowemdI have an iRiver H10 20gb, and I've been running RockBox on it for awhile. Recently I tried to resize the partition on it and broke it pretty badly. It still starts and runs fine (albeit correctly reporting 12gb rather than the original 18), but computers can't open it. They say the disk is corrupted. I therefore can't reverse what I did, or use the iRiver repair program (and even if I could...
02:39:02wemdowemd...I don't have their firmware because they no longer host it, which is required in the process). I remember the installation of RockBox required the preexistence of some files from the original firmware. My question then, is can I just fresh-format the whole thing and install RockBox again afterward, or am I screwed with that option too?
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02:43:36wemdowemdah fsck it, I'll format it anyway. Can't hurt any more than it already is
02:47:30wemdowemdis anybody even watching this channel?
02:51:48 Quit evilnick (" byeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee")
02:51:58Unhelpfulcertainly. perhaps nobody who knows how to help you is active at the moment, though.
02:53:20Unhelpfuli don't know if you can format the whole thing, but if you resized *and moved* a partition (ie, changed which disk block it starts at), without properly resizing and moving the filesystem on it, that would likely be your problem. what did you use to resize?
02:53:33wemdowemdUbuntu's gpart
02:54:16wemdowemdAs I said, I'm reformatting in FAT now with windows. My question is whether I can install RockBox on such a freshly formatted drive, given the flash 'BIOS' of the player will still be intact
02:54:32wemdowemdThere was no partition moving donw
02:54:41wemdowemdjust resizing. I chopped a few gig off the end
02:55:36Unhelpfulok, if you resize a partition to a smaller size, and don't resize the filesystem down *before* resizing the partition, that will corrupt the filesystem, as well
02:55:44Unhelpfuldo you mean gparted?
02:56:28wemdowemdyes. Well that's what I did then. Funnily enough though, while Windows and Ubuntu could no longer read the disk, Rockbox continued to work fine, and correctly reported the reduced size.
02:56:44wemdowemdIf only it had a built in filesystem/partition editor :)
02:57:31Unhelpfulthat's a fairly absurd thing to have inside rockbox, though...
02:58:11Unhelpfuland rockbox may very well continue to work fine, provided you never try to touch anything past the new end of the filesystem... and possibly even if you do.
02:58:34wemdowemdYeah, I'm joking. How is it so robust?
02:59:39Unhelpfulwell, if rockbox is willing to silently read past the end of the partition, the rest of your filesystem is still there ;)
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03:01:17Unhelpfuli don't really know that part of rockbox at all, but if it's "robust" in that way it could easily be considered a bug.
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03:08:29wemdowemdhm. I certainly know less than you about it, but this is the sort of thing I need to know for what I was/am trying to do. My original intention was to put an encrypted partition in there, which would contain a small 'liveUSB' linux install. It's part of an ongoing attempt to make a locked-down, 'spy' style portable OS
03:08:58wemdowemdThe MP3 player is getting so old it's ready for replacement now anyway, so I'm playing with it
03:09:29wemdowemdIn an ideal world the OS could be accessible from the screen of the player itself, but that's a pipe dream ATM. I'm more concerned with the complexities of encryption and boot-partitions
03:13:18Unhelpful...yeah, rockbox is probably never going to support booting some custom OS from an encrypted partition that you've added to it, unless you write a plugin to do that yourself. :/
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03:18:01wemdowemdNah, as I said it's all musing at the minute. My main plan is to make a portable, bootable OS that's secure. That's the biggest portable storage device I had laying about, and I thought it would be cool if I could keep the music-playing partition on there as a disguise
03:18:54 Quit Aurix_Lexico (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
03:21:39Unhelpfulyou may very well be able to "rescue" the device if you just resize the music partition back up... assuming you've not written to the data after it.
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03:44:35wemdowemdI tried but it wasn't having it. The whole thing's fresh FAT formatted now
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03:47:46wemdowemdIt worked! Everything's golden again. Now I'm going to repartition it more carefully...
03:48:01wemdowemdWhich requires booting ubuntu, so I'll see you later
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03:54:40ScottCoileyI'm having trouble deleting obsolete attachments from a TWiki article. Is this the wrong place to ask susch a question?
03:56:25 Quit mcuelenaere ()
03:57:49ScottCoileyWhen I try to delete a TWiki attachment - an error appears "in the URL": "template=oopsaccessdenied;def=topic_access;param1=rename;param2=access%20not%20allowed%20on%20web". What am I missing.
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04:35:34insanepotatoi want to make a patch which will contain many new files, it seems unintuitive to make lots of diff files. can i just zip the files and post the zip?
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04:37:52Unhelpfulwhy would it be lots of diff files?
04:38:11Unhelpfuljust svn add each new file, and then svn diff should include all of them.
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04:41:48insanepotatoi didn't realise svn diff would do that. i just tried it and the images are in the diff
04:45:10insanepotatoim trying to make a patch with a new plugin and the manual
04:45:23Unhelpfulok, binary files are definitely things you should be including in a separate zip, until they're actually committed. patch is inherently a text format.
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06:00:42Unhelpfuldoes anybody know of a bug with convbdf? i'm doing a make fullinstall, and it's spinning forever :/
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06:28:31Unhelpfulhrm... seems to just be a funny way of failing on disk full. nevermind. :/
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08:19:01insanepotatohello, i wish to make the metronome work on c200, how can should i go about this?
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08:28:57pixelmaIMO the best way would be to make the plugin use own button (or action) defines instead of pluginlib actions
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08:32:25*Unhelpful thinks that PLA might be more useful as an engine for handling table-based mappings of buttons to plugin actions, than as that *plus* a set of predefined mappings.
08:34:08*pixelma can't follow at the moment and decides it's time for some more coffee
08:36:41Unhelpfulpixelma: isn't that basically what its button_mapping structs are? i'm saying it might be less flakey if plugins that did anything odd defined their own button_mapping
08:38:47insanepotatowhen doing my own builds, is it possible to enable extra optimisations of any sort?
08:39:21Unhelpfulrockbox isn't gentoo - and that's not the point of gentoo, either. :)
08:40:20insanepotatofair enough =]
08:40:28pixelmaif you are brave enough you could enable Rockbox USB on your c200
08:40:53scorchethough, that is hardly an "optimisation"
08:41:28insanepotatoi dont want risk breaking it, i need it for music
08:41:54pixelmafor me it is because I don't have a microSDHC capable card reader otherwise ;\
08:46:32pixelmaUnhelpful: if you mean in the plugin file itself then I agree. But I wouldn't like that pluginlib keymap file become a collection of all sort of button mapping structs because having to look up things in a second file if you are doing your own anyways isn't nice
08:46:55Unhelpfulno, no, in the plugin file is exactly what i meant.
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09:18:26QuintasanBagder: ping
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10:41:36Unhelpfuli think this is probably ready. the main purpose is to get the renderer to work in a way that i understand, so that further tweaks to the slide layout, etc will be easier. as a bonus, it's also a "real" 3D projection.
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11:05:21rasherUnhelpful: it seems isn't quite robust against what git might throw at it
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11:32:46J-23my brother says that when he starts recording on Rockboxed c240 it powers off after 30 seconds?
11:34:21bertrikI think I've seen some weirdness too in recording on my sansa c200/e200 but couldn't reproduce it very well
11:34:58J-2326,5MB of free space ;p
11:35:02J-23maybe that's the reason
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11:39:20n1sit still shouldn't power off
11:41:10pixelmaUnhelpful: did you already commit some test plugin or something for aspect ratio corrected greylib scaling for the Archos screens?
11:41:47J-23now works, it recorded a 50-second wav file
11:43:12J-23also Rockbox on that player wasn't updated for a looong time
11:43:40bertrikI made a patch so that serial port support is only included for targets that really use it, can someone have a look at it?
11:44:46bertrikit's at and simplifies the condition for adding serial port support. It should save a little ram and binsize on most targets.
11:49:14Unhelpfulpixelma: if you edit apps/plugins/SOURCES, test_greylib_bitmap_scale.c is such a plugin, in a way :)
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11:50:35pixelmaok, I'll try that on my Ondio - anything on how to use it / what to look for when testing?
11:56:35Unhelpfulwell, you might try making a bitmap with some shapes that will show up aspect ratio distortion - squares or circles would be quite obviously if out by 20%, as they would be if uncorrected. just save something a good deal larger than the screen, and use the context menu to open it with the test plugin
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12:02:23mcuelenaerebertrik: it looks nice. I would say, it it doesn't break anything: commit :)
12:02:29mcuelenaeres/it it/if it/
12:05:04Unhelpfuli wouldn't try to scale down from more than 2-3x screen dimensions, but i don't really have any benchmarks for the speed of the scaler on archos, at least until pictureflow-on-hwcodec is ready ;)
12:06:39bertrikmcuelenaere, I tested all the archoses and the ipods to see if they still build correctly (and they did) and a couple of other targets, so I think it's safe
12:06:58mcuelenaerebertrik: then commit :)
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12:27:56bertrikmcuelenaere, yay, no red! :)
12:28:07mcuelenaerebertrik: yes, and nice green ;)
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15:29:42qballHow can I enable a debug log in rockbox?
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15:36:15Jaykayis it wanted that when turning volume to -74db the music is still hearable?
15:36:40mcuelenaereqball: do you mean logf?
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15:37:40qballyeah or how it is called.
15:37:58qballthink I found it
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15:40:31mcuelenaere\o/ /me got SD working on the Onda :)
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15:41:19qballhmm I was wrong
15:41:21qballhow do I enable it
15:41:30qballI want to see if I can find out all the buttons
15:41:33mcuelenaereqball: it's available in tools/configure
15:42:15*mcuelenaere is playing music on his PC from his SD (in his DAP) over USB :)
15:43:35BigBambimcuelenaere: congrats!
15:44:31qballlog is written in a file?
15:44:42mcuelenaereqball: no, you can view it in the debug menu
15:44:47mcuelenaereor write it out to a file
15:44:53mcuelenaereor view it over USB using USB serial
15:44:58qballok. how to write it to a file?
15:45:05mcuelenaereenable it in the debug menu
15:48:37qballmcuelenaere: is there a wiki page on it. I am doing something stupidly wrong
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15:49:09mcuelenaerehmm it doesn't look so
15:49:23mcuelenaereqball: you are building with logf enabled?
15:50:03qballtrying too
15:50:08mcuelenaerethen there should be an entry in debug menu -> logfdump
15:50:12qballbut configure −−help is completely unusefull
15:50:19qballit is not in the configure normal output
15:50:23mcuelenaerejust run ../tools/configure without any options
15:50:36qballin advanced
15:50:44*qball stands in corner
15:51:11mcuelenaereqball: yes, in advanced choose (L)ogf
15:51:31mcuelenaere(or just manually edit autoconf.h to define ROCKBOX_HAS_LOGF)
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15:52:39qballhmm build failure.
15:53:41qballbut it did link something
15:53:49qball/home/qball/HDD6320/rockbox/rockbox/apps/plugins/superdom.c: In function ‘get_number’:
15:53:52qballaah only an app
15:56:08qballin autoconf.h
15:56:09qball 8 /* Define this if you build rockbox to support the logf logging and display */
15:56:12qball 9 #define ROCKBOX_HAS_LOGF 1
15:56:13qballbut no entry in menu
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15:57:52fmlHello. Since the last commit to the lamp plugin I can only quit it via shutdown, at least on sansa e200. Was the change correct?
15:58:49mcuelenaereqball: an entry should appear, look in apps/debug_menu.c and you'll see that it's conditional on ROCKBOX_HAS_LOGF
15:59:47qballnot there.. did a make clean
16:00:15qballstrings on the shows it there
16:00:18mcuelenaeretry adding #ifdef ROCKBOX_HAS_LOGF\n #error here\n #endif around that area
16:00:28qballcan I build withouth that app that fails?
16:00:31qballmaybe that causes it
16:00:36mcuelenaereyou're sure you're uploading the right binary?
16:00:44qballmake zip
16:00:46qballthen extract zip
16:00:49qballwith overwrite
16:00:55mcuelenaerejust copy rockbox.*
16:01:14qballpff ok
16:01:33qballhow do I stop apps from bulding
16:01:35qballis only annoying
16:01:53BigBambimake bin
16:02:17BigBambior edit SOURCES
16:06:32qballdamn no extra hints from there
16:06:37qballregarding the nice button
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16:13:06mcuelenaerebleh, my SD is FAT16; that's why Rockbox won't mount it..
16:13:12*mcuelenaere reformats his SD card as FAT32
16:14:48qballListening to: The Thrill Is Gone - B.B. King (Live At San Quentin)
16:15:18qballfat16 still used
16:15:53mcuelenaereqball: Rockbox supports FAT16 (if enabled)
16:16:21qballbut is it realy still used?
16:17:16at0m|cthe last fat16 has just been formatted to fat32
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16:18:09mcuelenaereqball: I'm not sure whether some targets enable it by default, but I'm sure it's still used
16:18:19qballthey should be shot
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16:21:47n1si think some low capacity sansas came with fat16 partitons from factory
16:24:12qballI should see if I can buy a good rockbox compatible mp3 player
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16:40:01BigBambiqball: On small enough sizes
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19:04:10Jaykayin the manual rockbox should always be written uppercase right?
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19:08:50BigBambiJaykay: Not the whole word, no
19:09:01BigBambiBut Rockbox, yes
19:09:09BigBambiAs it is a proper noun
19:09:10Jaykayok thats what i meant
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19:13:34Jaykaycan i tell little manual errors here or should i try to fix them myself and submit a patch?
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19:18:02BigBambiJaykay: Patch would be better
19:18:14Jaykayok, ill try
19:20:33BigBambiJaykay: Thanks
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19:30:46*bertrik wonders if some of the creative players have a RDS capable FM chip
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19:31:18LambdaCalculus37bertrik: The Dell DJ doesn't. Then again, it doesn't even have FM.
19:31:53bertrikthe scanned image doesn't clearly show the last digit of the chip number, so it could be tea5764 (RDS) instead of tea5761 (no RDS)
19:33:33kugelUnhelpful: haha nice
19:33:44kugelI just tried PF on my clip for the first time
19:34:16LambdaCalculus37Jaykay: What sorts of errors have you noticed with Rockbox not being spelled as a proper noun?
19:34:26LambdaCalculus37kugel: What's it look like? :)
19:34:37kugelLambdaCalculus37: ugly :P
19:34:44LambdaCalculus37kugel: Hehe. :)
19:34:47bertrikbut it works!
19:35:01LambdaCalculus37Now we need a video player! :)
19:35:10kugelif the cover isn't too complex, you can acutally identify the cover
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19:35:24*LambdaCalculus37 still think we should just use the video player from the Archos JBR for the Clip
19:35:24JaykayLambdaCalculus37: "joining the rockbox IRC channel", i dont know whether this is right or "Rockbox" or #rockbox" would be better
19:35:42LambdaCalculus37Jaykay: Just capitalize Rockbox.
19:35:55Jaykaywill do
19:35:55LambdaCalculus37When you're done and have a patch up, give me a shout and I'll look at it.
19:36:04kugelmaybe put "(#rockbox at behind
19:36:21LambdaCalculus37kugel: Yes, good idea.
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19:36:30LambdaCalculus37Jaykay, add what kugel said.
19:36:32Jaykaythats also mentioned somewhere
19:36:43wizzyIs rockbox compatible with the 4th gen ipod nano?
19:36:46Jaykay"The main channel for Rockbox is #rockbox on irc://"
19:36:57bertrikLambdaCalculus37, oh, the archos has some kind of dedicated video player?
19:37:12LambdaCalculus37bertrik: Yes, it has a video player that plays back .rvf files.
19:37:16LambdaCalculus37There's a wiki page for it.
19:37:22LambdaCalculus37wizzy: No.
19:37:37 Quit wizzy (Client Quit)
19:38:09linuxstbLambdaCalculus37: You can't "just use" the Archos video player - that's written to use the MAS to decode audio. So someone needs to add software audio decoding. Also, it's far easier to encode to mpeg than the Rockbox video format.
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19:38:56LambdaCalculus37linuxstb: Ahh, I didn't know. Thanks for telling me.
19:39:37bertrikpictureflow on clip could look a little better with the text on top instead of below (so the text is in the yellow part and the cover in the cyan part) and with with bigger covers
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19:40:43wizzyCan you still access the service menu with rockbox installed?
19:42:27n1swizzy: what services menu?
19:42:37wizzyon the ipod 4g
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19:42:58linuxstbwizzy: Which 4th gen ipod? The original 4th gen or 4th gen Nano?
19:43:14n1syou mean the diagnostic mode?
19:43:39wizzyyes, the one accessed by pressing four buttons, two at a time
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19:44:57n1swizzy: that is handled by the apple bootloader in flash an is not touched by rockbox so yes it can still be entered on ipods where rockbox is installed it is however _not_ possible currently to install on a nano 4g (as linuxstb already said)
19:45:42wizzyHow about on an MS Zune (which, as you may already know, is based on the Toshiba Gigabeat S)
19:46:11n1swizzy: all supported targets are listed on the frontpage
19:46:21 Quit wizzy ("Dana")
19:46:25linuxstbAnd "not supported" targets are also listed.....
19:48:53*qball still has a weird dream of creative zen with rockbox
19:49:44LambdaCalculus37qball: So make it a reality.
19:49:57qballI am way to stupid for that
19:50:27qballanyway first this hdd6320
19:53:58Jaykaywhats the difference between HAVE_RB_BL_ON_DISK HAVE_RB_BL_ON_flash in the manual?
19:55:02n1sone is for players with the bootloader on the disk or main storage and the other for players where you "flash" the bootloader
19:56:44Jaykayso the sansa should have HAVE_RB_BL_ON_FLASH or not?
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20:01:34n1sno, don't think so
20:02:40n1sdon't remember what difference it makes in the manual so i guess you can check that and see what is more appropriate
20:07:29kugeljust running pictureflow already messes up my clip completely
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20:08:30kugelsomething is wrong with my clip
20:08:41LambdaCalculus37What's wrong with it?
20:08:47kugelthe filesystem is broken as soon as rockbox writes the config file or anything like that
20:09:40LambdaCalculus37Check the filesystem and see that nothing happened to it.
20:10:38*bertrik wonders about the cause of the skipping of mp3s on the clip
20:10:49kugelyea, that one is weird too
20:11:23LambdaCalculus37On my Clip, not all MP3s seem to skip.
20:11:38LambdaCalculus37Vorbis files play fine, but sometimes the Clip freezes when doing so.
20:11:39kugelsome are fine, indeed
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20:13:46bertrikI have no idea yet if it's some kind of hardware/driver issue or a an issue in the mp3 decoding (e.g. memory problem)
20:16:50kugelmp3 is definitely weird on ams sansas
20:17:06kugelremember that the fuze (e200v2 too I think) just reboots when trying to play them
20:17:24LambdaCalculus37kugel: What about other codecs on the Fuze?
20:17:34LambdaCalculus37Same result as MP3 or do those work?
20:18:48 Quit moos ("Rockbox rules the DAP world")
20:19:09kugelwell, they don't really work, but they don't reboot
20:19:25kugelon the higher mem targets the IRAM isn't used, and the RAM seems way too slow to decode
20:19:46kugelso, after a few seconds playback stops (AAC definitely, OGG not always)
20:20:29*LambdaCalculus37 hasn't tried an AAC file on his Clip yet
20:22:41LambdaCalculus37kugel: Let me throw an AAC file onto my Clip.
20:23:46 Nick qball is now known as Qball (n=qball@unaffiliated/qball)
20:24:05kugelLambdaCalculus37: forget it
20:24:10kugelthere's no AAC on the clip
20:24:23***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:24:23LambdaCalculus37kugel: Ahh well.
20:24:39*LambdaCalculus37 dumps the AAC files he copied onto his Clip back off of it
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20:36:15Jaykayi just noticed a wierd behaviour of my e280...
20:36:40Jaykaywhile doing a battery bench it turned backlight sometimes on, at random times
20:37:31bertrikdo you have caption backlight enabled?
20:37:42Jaykayit also seemed to jump at random times between songs, but when i opened the quickscreen to chekc the shuffle option it worked as normal
20:37:59bertrikIIRC that turns the backlight on briefly when a new track starts playing
20:38:26Jaykaybertrik: i never enabled it (i even dont know where i could do that) and iirc it also turned backlight on at the middle of a song
20:39:14Jaykaybut i guess i shouldnt write a bug report because i cant reproduce it...
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20:44:27kugelbertrik: btw, the new cabbiev2 on the clip is nice ;)
20:44:46Jaykaydoes anyone know why this could happen, or is it known?
20:44:54AlHazHi. Having trouble compiling sendfirm to rockbox a Gigabeat S30.
20:45:17AlHazer, wrong paste
20:45:20AlHazsendfirm.c: In function ‘sendfile_function’:
20:45:20AlHazsendfirm.c:94: error: too many arguments to function ‘LIBMTP_Send_File_From_File’
20:45:27bertrikkugel, yeah it's basically your modification with a minor bugfix
20:45:57kugelbertrik: you removed the horizontal line though
20:46:11kugelthe space is empty there now, I liked the line as a placeholder
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20:47:38bertrikoh I wasn't aware of that
20:49:20gevaertsAlHaz: sounds like a too old libusb
20:49:52Jaykaywhat does "\label{Version}" in the manual do?
20:50:47gevaertsWhat's the current status of the database as an externalisable library?
20:51:48Unhelpfulkugel: heh, add some tall covers and see what happens :)
20:52:25n1sgevaerts, AlHaz: I think it's rather a too new libusb
20:52:41n1sor rather an api mismatch
20:52:43gevaertsCould be that as well...
20:53:05Unhelpfulgevaerts, AlHaz: it's a "too new" libmtp. libmtp has removed the last argument from that function, as it is also a field in one of the structs passed to it.
20:53:32AlHazwhat version of libmtp should i use?
20:54:27gevaertsAlHaz: 0.2.x I think
20:54:38UnhelpfulAlHaz: just edit sendfirm.c, and remove the parent id argument. it should work then. i actually thought somebody had committed this after figuring it out. :/
20:55:24*n1s hopes for Unhelpful.commit_count++
20:56:37AlHazUnhelpful: that worked
20:57:54AlHazQuestion about the gigabeat S port though - the wiki doesn't explain how to install the dual-boot bootloader and also in parts says that the OF is required to charge the battery. Is the OF still required to charge the battery?
20:58:23n1sRockbox can charge now
20:58:44AlHazok, good.
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20:59:37AlHazHas anybody tried to use a CF card in a gigabeat S? I'd like to, for the decrease in weight and increase in battery life and UI responsiveness (no waiting for the disk to spin up)
20:59:58Unhelpfuln1s: should i? it'll force upgrades for folks with the older version, and i'm not even sure where that change happened :/
21:00:27gevaertsAlHaz: go for it! We need to know if it works!
21:01:15AlHazhehe, ok. I ordered an adapter from dealextreme a few days ago. I have a 32gb CF card sitting around that never went into an h320 i bought 'cause the h320 has a half-cooked charging circuit.
21:01:18n1sUnhelpful: ah, tricky. either way we'll have users who will need to modify the source before they compile...
21:01:29AlHazactually i have *two H320's with gimpy charging circuits.
21:02:08n1sthe h300 has a different hd connector
21:02:22LambdaCalculus37The Gigabeat S has a ZIF connector.
21:02:24Unhelpfuli assume versions are in the header... if we know what version makes that change, we can ifdef on it... i definitely don't have time to dig in their svn right now
21:02:35AlHazn1s: that's why i ordered a ZIF cf adapter from DX
21:03:02AlHazI already have a cf-modded h120 here
21:03:23n1sUnhelpful: alright i'll take a look
21:03:41AlHazbought a "bad harddrive" h320 for cheap and it turns out to have the ability to drain a brand-new cameron-sino 2200mah battery overnight. turned off.
21:03:59AlHazby the time i figured that out, I already had a 32gb cf card
21:06:10n1syeah version 0.3.0 broke the api compatibility
21:06:19AlHazbrb, may lose connectivity
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21:10:24AlHaz <−− ordered this adapter
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21:11:49n1scan someone with an older libmtp check what LIBMTP_VERSION is defined to in ilbmtp.h ?
21:12:03n1slibmtp.h even
21:12:08AlHazsendfirm tells me 'no devices'
21:12:39gevaertsn1s: #define LIBMTP_VERSION
21:12:55gevaerts#define LIBMTP_VERSION_STRING ""
21:13:09 Quit bmbl ("Woah!")
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21:13:16n1sgevaerts: thanks, now how do i tell the preprocessor that 0.3.0 > 0.2.6.* ?
21:14:29gevaertsn1s: tell it that it's obvious and that you won't stand any nonsense
21:17:32 Quit fdinel ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
21:18:35Jaykayanother try: what does "\label{Version}" in the manual do?
21:19:23gevaertsn1s: you could play dirty and use an #ifdef in the C file, then from the makefile build once with and once without the define...
21:20:06Jaykayn1s: thanks
21:21:02n1sgevaerts: you forget that i'm makefile-illiterate...
21:21:28Jaykayn1s: is it correct that \label{Version} doesnt show anything in the rockbox manual?
21:22:02n1sJaykay: not sure
21:22:33Jaykayi dont miss anything, ill remove it in a patch
21:24:27gevaertsn1s: I'll let you commit if you like. I don't want my name associated with that sort of hack ;)
21:25:25n1sa so it builds both and one will always fail, sneaky :)
21:25:45AlHazrecovery mode on the gigabeat s may only support usb2
21:25:52gevaertsIf the first one succeeds it won't try the second one
21:25:58n1sah, ok
21:28:16Jaykayanother question regarding the manual: should there always be a free line between two warnings or notes
21:28:24Jaykayor a text and a note?
21:28:35Jaykayimo it makes the manual more readable
21:29:00n1sJaykay: we don't have that sort of thing written down, use what looks good and is readable to you
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21:34:05 Quit kugel ("ChatZilla 0.9.84-rdmsoft [XULRunner]")
21:38:35Jaykayis it right that "\dap{}" is always replaced with player
21:38:58Jaykayor where can i look up with what those "variables" are replaced?
21:39:38soapdreamlayers' BCM work is pretty cool.
21:40:14n1sJaykay: yes it is and that is in the platform files iirc, grep is your friend btw
21:41:19Jaykaywhat is greo...
21:41:42Jaykayand why couldnt i write always player instead of /dap{}?
21:41:45 Quit parafin (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
21:42:39LambdaCalculus37Jaykay: Leave \dap{} as it is.
21:43:35n1sbecause we might want to change it, grep is a tool to search for text in files, very useful
21:44:04Jaykayhm ok....
21:46:18bertriksoap, BCM work? what is BCM?
21:47:35bertrikoh, about the tv-out on ipod 5g
21:48:22AlHazin recovery mode, the gigabeat S doesn't reboot after sendfirm completes
21:48:28AlHazyou have to unplug the usb cable
21:49:21Jaykayplease write when im asking too much... why is there "char" in "\newcommand{\genericimg}{charx11x1}" in player.tex
21:50:01kadobani assume that is short for "character display" instead of bitmap
21:50:59Jaykayi dont understand, but as long as its right....
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21:56:29bluebrotherJaykay: the key is that this makes it possible changing it later ... if wanted
21:57:21bluebrotherand the charx11x1 is the naming used for the charcell player.
21:57:53Jaykayi only cant imagine what would fit in all places where \dap{} is used except player... but it doesnt matter anyway, the output is the same
21:57:53bluebrotherJaykay: are you aware of the LatexGuidelines wiki page?
21:58:15gevaertsJaykay: uh no. The output isn't the same...
21:58:19bluebrotherfor example, on Ipods \dap{} could expand to Ipod.
21:58:47Jaykaygevaerts: as long as everyplayer uses "player" for dap, yes
21:58:49bluebrothercurrently it does not, but it might be a replacement that would work. Just as an example ...
22:00:29Jaykayi would also prefer ipod/sansa or something like this...
22:00:46*Jaykay wonders why this is not already replaced
22:00:46bluebrotherfeel free to start a discussion about it on the -dev ml.
22:01:11bluebrotherbecause it was decided to go with the current text in the past?
22:01:16Jaykayuh no i just get tha answer "nobody cared about it"
22:01:39Jaykayill just leave it as it is.
22:01:51bluebrotherwell, another possibility is that someone decided to go that way and nobody cared enough about it to start a discussion.
22:02:14 Quit LambdaCalculus37 ("Fwump")
22:02:17Unhelpfulgevaerts: that's perfectly awful.... but, if the version is *only* there as a string, i don't really see what else one can do. :/
22:03:21gevaertsUnhelpful: it's there as a string and as something that's neither a string nor a number
22:04:05gevaertsUnhelpful: if I didn't think it was awful I'd have committed it myself :)
22:05:42Unhelpfulwtf, there's nothing one can do with the other one, either.... i mean, at *all*, is there? :/
22:06:14gevaertsYou can grep on it...
22:06:39n1scould someone try building sendfirm on 32 bit now, i don't think the buildsystem builds it
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22:08:02Unhelpfulgevaerts: correction, there's nothing you can do with it *in C*? ;P
22:08:26Unhelpfulor am is there a context i'm not thinking of where 0.3.5 is a valid literal of some sort?
22:08:47gevaertsI can't think of one
22:09:03n1sthis also creates another fun problem for a friendly gigabeast installation, different sendfirms needed for different linux systems... unless we link in libmtp statically :/
22:09:33gevaertsDon't we already link to libusb statically for most tools?
22:10:23Unhelpfulgevaerts: what if we build a test app first, that outputs the version string, and then use that output to set a define when building sendfirm? that gets rid of the "built twice" nastiness...
22:10:50AlHazalright, one more gigabeat S successfully rockboxed
22:10:53bluebrotherwhat "end user" tools need libusb except rbutil?
22:11:34gevaertsbluebrother: the e200r installer I'd say
22:11:49gevaertsUnhelpful: how do you do that when crosscompiling (e.g. for mingw)?
22:11:58bluebrotherhmm, right. But is that an end user tool? ;-)
22:12:13gevaertsit is as long as *you* want :)
22:12:22AlHazby the way, if anyone gets to "bang head against walls" levels of frustration with the freescale chips - the device driver team for these are personal friends of mine. Former coworkers. Still need to give them some ribbing over the y2k9 bug.
22:13:18bertrikAlHaz, want to hack on a cool project for the beast?
22:13:39AlHazbertrik: I may or may not have the skills. I'm a QA guy.
22:13:46AlHazor QC depending on who you ask
22:13:48Unhelpfulgevaerts: surely we have something already for build-platform-native compilation when cross-compiling? don't we need it for the bitmap/font utilities?
22:13:49 Join saratoga [0] (n=9803c6dd@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
22:14:17gevaertsUnhelpful: what does the native libmtp version say about whatever mingw will use?
22:14:19AlHazFreescale's driver development wing is what's left of Lineo - I worked there for 2 years until they ran out of money.
22:14:37Unhelpful..... GAH!
22:14:53saratogaffmpeg has the slowest svn ever
22:14:55Unhelpfulyou're right. we could grep the header, but that relies on *finding* it.
22:15:08AlHazMy coding skills are mainly limited to minor edits. I understand the syntax but lack the mojo for creating it.
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22:16:29*gevaerts wonders about the y2k9 bug if AlHaz whas a QA guy there ;)
22:16:30 Quit webguest90 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
22:16:34bertrikAlHaz, ok, I was thinking about RDS support, but that does indeed require new code to write, datasheets to read, experiment, etc.
22:16:48AlHazhehe, these chips didn't exist when i worked for that team
22:18:14AlHazLineo believed in QC. Freescale Semi doesn't.
22:18:54AlHazI left there in 2001 when the investment capital ran out. A few months later Motorola bought it from Canopy and later sliced off Freescale
22:19:11AlHazthe guys who were the linux kernel team at lineo are now the freescale device driver team
22:19:17 Part kubzior ("Leaving")
22:19:25AlHazwell, them and whoever recently graduated in CS in beijing
22:20:05saratogamaking WMA pro fast on targets with IRAM may be interesting
22:20:42saratogai see that MS has increased the max IMDCT block size to 4096 samples, times 2 channels, times 2 overlapped blocks
22:20:53saratogashould be fine for AMS though
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22:24:28***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:25:57orsonjhey, thought I'd point this out:
22:26:12 Join HBK [0] (
22:26:15Unhelpfulsaratoga: huh, does it use that size in lossy mode? i thought that giant blocks == more preecho...
22:26:15orsonjSansa c240 for $11
22:30:07 Quit lymeca (Connection timed out)
22:31:45bertrikoh nice, according to the comments they are V1s
22:31:58 Quit fyrestorm (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
22:35:15AlHazby the way, if I'm unable to resolve the 'only runs on external DC' issue with my other S30, i might be willing to donate it to a needy developer.
22:38:48 Quit sarixe ("Bye")
22:38:50saratogaUnhelpful: they're probably for 88.2/96k tracks
22:39:24Unhelpfuldoes wma pro lossless use (ir)MDCT?
22:39:26saratogabut the WMA codecs are weird with blocks, WMA std had 5 different transform sizes, and used all of them
22:39:37saratogalossless is actually a different codec then Pro
22:39:59Unhelpfulthey need to stop giving vastly different things the same names at MS :/
22:40:00saratogabut its IMDCT based
22:40:34Unhelpfuli'm assuming one of the "new" reversible IMDCT?
22:40:45saratogai only skimmed it so far, but it looks a lot like WMA std with much better huffman coding, better stereo handling, more sample rates, etc
22:41:03saratogaUnhelpful: you mean lossless?
22:41:04gevaertsWho are the people "working" on lib-izing tools/database?
22:41:14bertrikwhat is holding us back from using a more recent version of gcc?
22:41:24saratogabertrik: not much
22:42:06saratogai think mostly just a lack of motivation to setup everything for a new gcc version
22:42:12Unhelpfulsaratoga: yes, i mean lossless. there are recent integer approximations to DCT/MDCT that have the property of being reversible, so that the inverse transform of unquantized coefficients is guaranteed to give you the input data.
22:42:33Unhelpfulmpeg4-sls uses one such transform, i *think* :/
22:42:40saratogaUnhelpful: I don't think anything is known about WMA Lossless but as far as I know, there are no practical transform based lossy audio codecs
22:43:25saratogathough i don't know much about the mpeg4 lossless codec except that not much uses it
22:44:18saratogabertrik: i setup gcc4.3.2 for arm a while ago, but ran into some weird issues compiling, though other people have done it without trouble so i'm sure it was my fault
22:44:48Unhelpfulwell, there are *two* of those, as well, als and sls. sls seems to be based on one of the reversible DCT approximations, so that the "lossy core" can be decoded as AAC
22:45:08saratogaits probably worth having though due to the improvements for later arm processors and perhaps coldfire
22:45:22bertriksaratoga, ok thanks for the information
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22:45:41saratogabertrik: theres a file spray task about it from last year
22:45:45bertrikdoes a newer gcc still require the rockbox specific patches?
22:45:56saratogabertrik: not really, just the multilib patch
22:46:09saratogawhich is really just a change to the configure options rather then a real patch
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22:49:20AlHazOh, I also have a line on a gigabeat V30 with a headphone jack issue that i could forward to a developer gratis
22:49:38fmlHello. It seems that backlight_on() isn't implemented correctly on the sansa e200 sim. Could anybody confirm?
22:50:57 Quit saratoga ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
22:53:19fmlErr... sorry, might be my fault.
22:54:58Unhelpfulok, pictureflow "new renderer" seems to be working properly now. any objections to commit?
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23:00:23jaykay_sorry a noob question: how do i "compile" a manual... tools/configure M doesnt work...
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23:02:54kadobanjaykay_: "doesn't work" isn't a helpful description of a problem
23:03:17jaykay_youre right sorry
23:03:20bluebrotheryou need to invoke make ;-)
23:03:30jaykay_make made only a normal build
23:03:41bluebrothermake manual :)
23:03:57jaykay_i tried make manual, which gives lots of errors and a manual without e.g. the table of content
23:04:31 Quit flydutch ("/* empty */")
23:04:35*bluebrother points to ManualHowto
23:04:54bluebrotherwell, do you have LaTeX installed and running properly?
23:06:01linuxstbjaykay_: Posting the errors to somewhere like would help as well.
23:06:57*jaykay_ is installing latex-ucs
23:07:40n1sbertrik: i tried gcc 4.3 for coldfire about a year ago and posted the patch in FS that saratoga referenced but i ran into a bug that's fixed in 4.4 so i'm hoping to give that a try when it gets released
23:08:14n1s4.3 and 4.4 supposedly birng a few nice things for coldfire at least
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23:08:58jaykay_i think that "latex error: utf8.def not found" is the main error
23:09:05n1swhile earlier 4.x versions generated significantly slower and larger code for coldfire than 3.4
23:09:05 Nick pixelma_ is now known as pixelma (n=pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma)
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23:09:11bluebrotherhmm, the ManualHowto is somewhat outdated in regards to the unicode thing
23:09:19bertrikn17ikh, cool, looking forward to that
23:09:25bluebrotherjaykay_: what LaTeX distribution and which version?
23:10:00jaykay_i use the vmware image and "ran apt-get install latex-ucs", thats all i know :)
23:10:41bluebrotherthat's most likely completely outdated. Tried updating latex itself?
23:10:54jaykay_i dont know how...
23:11:16bluebrotherapt-get install latex should do it ... if there's a newer package around
23:12:43bluebrotherwell, it's tetex-base tetex-bin tetex-extra it seems.
23:13:21 Quit AndyI (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:13:26bluebrotheranother option: edit preamble.tex and replace the utf8 with utf8x
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23:15:33jaykay_latex error: enumity.sty not found
23:15:45bluebrotheranother package missing.
23:16:01jaykay_im to tired.... ill try again tomorrow
23:16:09jaykay_thanks for your help so far
23:17:48 Quit Jaykay (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:17:50*bluebrother isn't satisfied with the changes he made to ManualHowto but at least it's better than being completely wrong
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23:21:26 Quit jaykay_ ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120122]")
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23:58:32amiconnUnhelpful: The new pictureflow algorithm is a bit strange
23:58:52amiconnThe slide height increases at the sides....

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