#rockbox 2009-02-11

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#rockbox log for 2009-02-11

00:00:24	pixelma	and I play the files from the file browser
00:01:05	kugel	hm, only very few bytes of my 6th song fit into the buffer
00:01:47	amiconn	kugel, pixelma: It seems to be a buffer alignment issue. If the data abort happens, a change of buffer size won't make it go away, up to some limit (limit is probably different for increase and decrease)
00:01:58	kugel	if it's more, no data abort. maybe I'm hitting some edge case with the partial buffering, which makes it fail
00:02:25	amiconn	Maybe it happens if the metadata would only fit partially (we have MoB these days...)
00:02:26		Quit jgarvey ("Leaving")
00:02:34	kugel	amiconn: well, more buffer makes it go away
00:02:37		Quit gregzx ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.6/2009011913]")
00:02:37		Quit pyro_maniac (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:03:21		Quit tessarakt ("Client exiting")
00:03:25		Quit amiconn (Nick collision from services.)
00:03:25	kugel	Tony pointed out that new_handle->id assignmet is crashing
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00:03:47		Nick pixelma_ is now known as pixelma (n=pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma)
00:04:31	kugel	hm, do we have a maximum metadata-size-per-file?
00:05:10	kugel	I wonder if refusing to partial buffer the entire file if the (max) metadata is bigger than the remaining buffer "solves" it
00:05:49	kugel	pixelma: do you have a certain playlist to reproduce the abort?
00:05:58		Join moos [0] (i=Mustapha@rockbox/staff/moos)
00:06:22	pixelma	yes, do you not follow the bug reports you posted too?
00:06:37	kugel	I do, but seems I missed that part
00:06:50	kadoban	if you open a menu in, wormlet say..the status bar doesn't display right away soemtimes and the old top-of-screen stays there (and looks pretty ugly). is this the same bug as FS #9817, or separate? i can't tell
00:07:17	kugel	sorry.
00:07:31	kugel	pixelma: can you watch if the track count is incrementing right before the abort?
00:08:07	pixelma	track count incrementing?
00:08:31		Quit fyrestorm (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:09:28	pixelma	where - in the debug screen or in the WPS or something? If it's the former, I'm not sure I'll be able to get to the debug screen in 8 seconds
00:09:43	JdGordon_	kugel: there is a max metadata size iirc, but buffering will never load it partialy... i tihnk if it fails because there isnt enough room, it will try again from the start later when there is rom
00:10:59	kugel	pixelma: in the debug buffering screen
00:11:30	kugel	well, I am able to reach it. It's at ~55% when I come in
00:11:54	kugel	JdGordon_: well, that was my guess. Good guess it seems, but already been thought of ;)
00:12:24	kugel	but it seems related to that only a few bytes go into the buffer
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00:15:36	JdGordon_	sim_open() is always either returning 5 or -1... does that sound correct?
00:16:03	pixelma	kugel: track count is not incrementing right before the crash (already at 5 for a second or two)
00:16:48	PaulJam_	JdGordon_: do you run the uisim with cygwin? i occassionally get this "installation incomplete" splash after the sim crashes (i think in situations where i would get a segfault under native linux)
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00:17:04	JdGordon_	PaulJam_: no, linux
00:17:12	kugel	pixelma: hmm, so not related to partial buffering
00:17:15	kugel	no idea then :/
00:17:27	kugel	I can't reproduce in the sim, which is sad
00:18:34	tonytaylor	hey guys- i have some hardware to donate if anyone is interested
00:18:55	kugel	which, if I may ask?
00:19:05	tonytaylor	sansa fuze 2 gig
00:19:12	tonytaylor	i bought it for the screen
00:19:18	tonytaylor	i broke mine on my 8 gig
00:19:38	tonytaylor	i'm not sure how much use it is without a screen but you guys are welcome to it
00:20:35	kugel	well, once rockbox runs, it's pretty usefull without screen
00:21:25	amiconn	kugel: You won't be able to reproduce a data abort in the sim, unless you're running it on an arm linux box
00:22:02	amiconn	Data abort means an unaligned access happened, and afaik x86 can do unaligned accesses
00:22:41	kugel	oh
00:23:37	amiconn	Hmm, or maybe not....
00:23:58	tonytaylor	well if anyone wants it, email me.
00:24:02	tonytaylor	tonytaylor85
00:24:05	tonytaylor	$
00:24:07	tonytaylor	gmail
00:24:08	tonytaylor	dotcom
00:24:10	amiconn	But the sim is too different for this kind of bug (only happens under certain conditions etc)
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00:41:00	taylor_	does anyone here have a 4/5/5.5 g classic?
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00:45:48	taylor__	anyone here have a 4g/5g or 5.5g nano?
00:46:07	BigBambi	How do I force a blank line in latex? I thought it was \\* but it doesn't seem to be doing it
00:46:38	Qball	\\ is newline not blankline right
00:46:45	Llorean	taylor__: What is a 5G or 5.5G Nano?
00:47:16	BigBambi	I have \warn{stuff} then \opt{target}{\note{stuff}} and whilst it works there is blank line between the warning and the note
00:47:21	BigBambi	Qball: yeah
00:47:34	taylor__	ooppss... sory I meant 5 g Classic
00:47:38	BigBambi	*there is NO blank line
00:47:59	Llorean	taylor__: The "Classic" is the 6th generation.
00:48:16	Llorean	Do you just mean a 4G 5G or 5.5G in the classic form factor? (note differences in capitalization)
00:48:31	taylor__	yes
00:48:38	n1s	BigBambi: and putting \\ between them makes no difference?
00:49:02	BigBambi	n1s: No - they are already on a new line, but I want a blank line as well
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00:50:30	BigBambi	OK, don't worry, I've managed it
00:50:47	taylor__	does anyone here own one of these?
00:50:51	BigBambi	I played around with the position of \\* - I had it in the wrong place relative to my }
00:52:08	n1s	ah, yes it seems to be ignored in some cases if it is inside the }
00:53:09	n1s	if you look at getting_started/main.tex for example it uses \\ to force newlines between \warn{], \note{} and \blind}
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00:53:35	BigBambi	n1s: Yep, but it was a blank line I specifically wanted, not just a new line
00:54:07	n1s	hmm but those have \\ inside } ...
00:54:26	n1s	BigBambi: i'm not sure i understand the difference
00:54:35	BigBambi	n1s: In fact I had to put my \\* inside } to get it - it didn't work outside
00:54:55	BigBambi	n1s: New line doesn't have a space inbetween, it is just a new line
00:55:11	BigBambi	As in line 1 - blah blah, line 2 - different blah blah
00:55:13		Quit MethoS (Remote closed the connection)
00:55:34	BigBambi	But a blank inbetween would be line 1 - blah blah, line 2 - blank, line 3 - different blah blah
00:56:19	n1s	the way it's done in the example i posted above results in what you wanted then
00:56:31	BigBambi	curious
00:56:46	BigBambi	Anyway, I have to go to bed now - I'll try and get this finihed tomorrow
00:56:52	n1s	and it's consistent with your finding that for some reason \\ has to go inside the }
00:57:02	n1s	goodnight
00:57:05	BigBambi	cheerio :_
00:57:14	BigBambi	gah, :)
00:59:12	n1s	anyway i think we are way too liberal in using \warn{} in the manual, it should only be used for things worth warnign about
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01:02:11	Unhelpful	amiconn: you could have a dump_line that moves almost everything platform-specific out of screen_dump. if it's defined above screen_dump, you could even inline it.
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01:02:41	Unhelpful	i'm imagining something like the scaler's output_row, only without the option of swapping output functions via function pointer.
01:02:44	amiconn	You cannot inline it if it's define in the lcd-<pixelformat>.c
01:03:14	amiconn	And if it resides elsewhere, you won't get rid of the ifdefs - but that's what kugel suggested
01:03:31	*	amiconn thinks the ifdefs in screendump aren't too nasty
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01:04:03	*	kugel tends to disagree
01:06:27	*	kugel spots a new job for Unhelpful ;)
01:07:17	Unhelpful	amiconn: no, you can't inline it and move it out of screendump.c, but you can move it out of screen_dump. i'm not sure it's worthwhile, it really only was for scalers because we wanted to make it pluggable, and because there were two callers, so turning inline code into a function was a binsize saving
01:07:50	cool_walking_	taylor__: I've got a 5G.
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01:08:15	kugel	I think screen_dump is just as lcd-format specific as all other stuff in lcd-<format>.c, so it should be moved into that
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01:11:07	n1s	hmm, binsize table seems to not be updating, or lagging badly
01:11:45	taylor__	@cool_walking cool :] can you try something for me?
01:11:56	n1s	anyways, goodnight
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01:13:27	Unhelpful	kugel: the problem is that most it, aside from the inner loop, isn't. especially if one moves the declarations for shift, val, etc, into the inner loop
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01:15:30	amiconn	There's also a similar function in grey_core.c (the greylib screendump hook). Right now it's possible to compare fairly easily
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01:19:56	cefn	Hello I'd like write permissions to wiki for new user account CefnHoile, or for someone to add a link to cefn.com/librivox/catalog/">http://cefn.com/librivox/catalog/ (note trailing slash) in the http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/BlindUsersIndex page. I'm providing a blind-navigable alternative for a public domain audiobook resource http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LibriVox. The catalog at librivox.org is almost useless and I'd like to unlock t
01:22:33	cefn	Also I'd like feedback from blind users whether there are any other features or lists which would help them navigate. I'll add contact details in the next hour or so after I've finished an update of the site.
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01:29:42	Llorean	cefn: I'm not sure I understand why that's considered a Rockbox resource.
01:30:32	cool_walking_	taylor__: Probably. What is it?
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01:34:54	cefn	I think I read the purpose of this page more widely - resources relevant to blind users of rockbox, rather than resources only directly about rockbox for blind users. Don't know where else I could present this link which would reach the relevant userbase and help me improve the resource, but fair enough if you think it's not relevant
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01:56:47	taylor__	its been confirmed by cool_walking_ that a 5g crashes under this "long url overflow" which means we might be able to look at the 5g code to see what is happening here ;)
02:00
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02:12:48	rasher	taylor__: not bad
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02:13:43	taylor__	yeah - its a good start, but DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW TO READ ARM ASM??? ;)
02:15:14	saratoga	i guess the next step would be to try and get it working on the 5G and then hope apple didn't change anything on the later models
02:17:29	Llorean	taylor__: Seriously, there's a reference manual and google.
02:17:34	Llorean	You don't need to shout about it.
02:18:01	taylor__	@saratoga now every ipod capable of viewing notes is vulnerable to the crash
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02:18:51	taylor__	Llorean: I plan on building a ARM/ipod firmware debugger for this
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02:30:08	saratoga	taylor__: I don't know what you mean by that, but you will have to learn ARM assembly for this idea of yorus to work
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03:18:50	webguest98	Hi On e200 I hold select, and I power it on, it will go into rockbox then it shows a usb cable, then it reboots to O
03:18:57	webguest98	OF*
03:19:04	webguest98	what Am I doing wrong
03:20:18	webguest98	can anyone hear me?
03:21:13		Quit alexbobp (Connection reset by peer)
03:21:32	cool_walking_	no
03:21:58	soap	I assume, webguest98, that you do not have a USB cable inserted? Or any other device attached to the dock port?
03:22:56	webguest98	also did something change in rockbox, how come now it takes forever to charge?
03:23:12	webguest98	It's at 60% and it says 15hours
03:23:18	webguest98	before that's like 100%
03:23:37	webguest98	it takes 4hours before to charge, now it's a lot slower
03:23:50	soap	before = with OF?
03:23:58	soap	or before = with Rockbox?
03:24:07	webguest98	yes
03:24:07	webguest98	all with of
03:24:33	webguest98	did someone improve battery life or something?
03:24:42	soap	Since?
03:25:06	soap	Battery life has been on a pretty steady upwards climb with the Sansa since inception.
03:27:12	webguest98	is it safer to charge with rockbox or OF?
03:28:11	scorche	it isnt any more dangerous with either device, but you might be better off charging in the OF for now
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03:30:31	webguest99	The version in january is about 14hours, but now all of a sudden, I think I can get 20 hours
03:30:35	webguest99	its really weird
03:31:14	soap	No, strides have been made in battery life as I said - and if you use MP3 make that great strides have been made.
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03:58:12	rocko	http://stopsoftwarepatents.eu/721000774939/
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06:44:15	sap	Hello!
06:45:53	sap	was wondering if there's a rockbox alternative for the creative zen microphoto player. Rockbox doesn't seem to support that, but I'd like to install a similar open-source firmware to my microphoto. :)
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07:09:35	Unhelpful	to the best of my knowledge, there aren't really any others that support that device, either.
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09:26:24	_rossy_	im not sure if this is significant, but the E100 uses the same format for firmware upgrades as other Actions based players
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09:27:26	B4gder	we still haven't figured it out, so it doesn't help that much atm
09:28:13	_rossy_	hmm, ok
09:28:47	_rossy_	there is a large userbase for Actions/RockChip players
09:29:01	_rossy_	its possible that someone could have cracked the encryption
09:29:03	B4gder	yes, but not very many developers it seems...
09:29:09	Zagor	are those the 8-bit chipsets?
09:29:20	B4gder	no, they're arm
09:29:32	B4gder	or was it mips?
09:29:53	_rossy_	i thought they were m68k
09:30:03	B4gder	I'm quite sure they are not m68k
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09:30:15	B4gder	I think we have a data sheet link somewhere
09:30:23	_rossy_	http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WebHome?topic=IriverLPlayerPort
09:32:37	B4gder	"MIPS 4KEc"
09:33:35	B4gder	the chinese things tend to be MIPS after all
09:35:10	B4gder	I can't find any mention of what endian mode they use it in
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09:37:23	_rossy_	there are some programs around that say they can replace images in the firmware
09:37:28	_rossy_	such as this http://mympxplayer.org/new-rockchip-actions-firmware-editor-vt7940.html
09:37:59	_rossy_	although it explicity states it doesn't support encrypted firmware images
09:40:04	B4gder	that would imply different firmware formats then
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09:41:40	_rossy_	hmm
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09:42:29	_rossy_	i wonder what would happen if i dragged a generic actions firmware onto my E100...
09:43:03	B4gder	I'd guess there's a significant brick risk
09:43:16	_rossy_	yeah, theres no way i'd try it
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09:45:47	_rossy_	but, if it worked, that would imply that unencrypted actions images could work as well
09:46:07	B4gder	true
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09:55:40	BdN3504	hey, i want to create a patch but the first obstacle i am facing is that i don't where which code i'd have to modify. Could someone help me out?
09:56:40	BdN3504	i want to add an entry to the context menu for cfg files...
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09:57:18	BdN3504	preferably for cfg files found in the theme directory
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09:59:38	BdN3504	i have looked on the patch tracker for patches which address to change the menus but have only come up with the add item to quickscreen theme which might be a little helpful
10:00
10:00:32	Zagor	_rossy_: don't the various actions players use different displays?
10:00:57	_rossy_	i think so, but 320x240 is a common one
10:01:33	B4gder	Zagor: still, we'd only need to know if they "accept" the unencrypted firmware to know that it would work, it wouldn't actually have to work
10:01:54	_rossy_	how would we know it worked then? :)
10:02:14	B4gder	_rossy_: it depends on how the upgrade procedure works
10:02:23	B4gder	most systems reject bad files immediately
10:02:30	_rossy_	ah, i see
10:03:01	B4gder	but then we'd also need a recovery approach to be able to run test versions
10:03:21	_rossy_	it'd be nice if the firmware upgrading process wasn't part of the main firmware file
10:03:38	_rossy_	i assume there's no way to know whether it is or not
10:04:07	B4gder	in most cases we support dual-booting for exactly such purposes
10:06:27	BdN3504	<B4gder> where are the contextmenu entries defined?
10:06:37	Zagor	is there a overview somewhere over player make/models who use these chips?
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10:09:39	B4gder	Zagor: I can't find any...
10:09:51	B4gder	BdN3504: I suggest using find and grep
10:10:53	Zagor	I'm not convinced those "mp4" are as similar as some people think.
10:11:29	B4gder	I agree
10:11:43	B4gder	ATJ makes different chips, so does RockChip and the ChinaChips
10:13:19	BdN3504	can i use grep on the VM offered on the rbsite?
10:13:37	B4gder	BdN3504: can't you just try it?
10:14:47	BdN3504	i am currently writing from a notebook with winxp on which i don't have neither vmware installed nor downloaded the image, so no.
10:15:03	B4gder	and how are you planning to write the patch again?
10:15:56	B4gder	that's not really a good way to write code
10:15:57	BdN3504	well at home somehow, but i have dled the source so i can search what parts i'd have to modify, can't i?
10:16:19	B4gder	apparently you don't have the sufficient tools I'd say
10:16:31	B4gder	but that's me
10:16:45	BdN3504	which tools would you recommend for me to create a patch?
10:17:04	B4gder	1. a complete build environment
10:17:11	B4gder	2. a text editor you like
10:17:24	B4gder	3 profit!
10:17:42	GodEater_	you forgot 2a) Patience and 2b) Trial and Error
10:18:15	*	B4gder doesn't know about those! ;-)
10:18:23	GodEater_	hehe
10:19:09	BdN3504	well all that i got at home, but i thought you could shine a lil light... i thought i'd have to edit option_select.c menu.c and settings_menu.c
10:23:26	BdN3504	hm maybe you could just tell me how you like the idea of the patch i had in mind, because if it's going to get rejected anyway i wouldn't have to go through all the programming hassle.
10:24:11	B4gder	I don't really have an opinion, it's not a feature I would use
10:25:28	BdN3504	... i didn't mention what i wanted.... did you look at the forum post?
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11:38:22	havien	brb reboot
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11:41:37	kadoban	Anyone with an M3 not busy? I'm trying to get FS #7369 submitted, but the M3 keypad is almost certainly bad.
11:50:50	daurn	hey guys
11:50:57	daurn	hows the progress on the fuze?
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12:44:25	*	LambdaCalculus37 pokes kadoban
12:44:44	kadoban	hi :)
12:45:05	kadoban	do you have an M3 perchance?
12:45:19	LambdaCalculus37	I wish. ;)
12:45:28	LambdaCalculus37	kadoban: I'm going to try out FS #7369 out for myself to see how it works.
12:45:35	kadoban	oh okay, great
12:45:39	LambdaCalculus37	amiconn is the only dev I know with one.
12:45:44	kadoban	ahh
12:46:46	LambdaCalculus37	Although I wish the patch played Go as well, I'm not going to nitpick. It still looks cool anyway.
12:47:27	kadoban	yeah, i kind of wish it played go too, but there's no easy AI code to pull in (everything is not-fixed-point and/or uses a huge amount of RAM)
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12:48:21	LambdaCalculus37	Indeed. But you can always check out the chessbox plugin; IIRC that was based on some GNU chess game and was tailored to run within the confines of an embedded system.
12:48:38	LambdaCalculus37	That would give a good basis for a Go game.
12:49:50	kadoban	Well...chess AIs are fundamentally different from Go AIs, for every one I've seen. There's GNUGo, but in my opinion it's ugly and I'm not sure it even can be tailored down.
12:50:10	kadoban	I looked for simple 9x9 playing AIs that I could port, but there's not even that many open source ones
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12:51:16	kadoban	There's some recent monty carlo based Go AIs that are looking nice, but I think they're all closed source...and probably require a lot of processing power
12:52:18	LambdaCalculus37	Yeah, they won't be suitable to port to Rockbox. You'd have an easier time porting Duke Nukem Forever. ;)
12:52:28	kadoban	Indeed :(
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12:55:10	kadoban	yeah, i still play to try to do something for an AI, but I think of it as mostly separate anyway. I doubt that it can even work on all targets
12:55:41	soap	I'm looking into having the Rockbox logo embroidered, and part of the set-up fee is "digitizing" (converting it to a stitch pattern). I am convinced from the people i've talked to that some of the smaller detail will not survive the process. Any thoughts on http://cleansoap.org/images/Logo.jpg ?
12:56:03	soap	Did I go too far? Should I keep the yellow field @ the original width?
12:56:15	LambdaCalculus37	I think it looks fine.
12:56:24	GodEater_	me too
12:56:38	Zagor	looks good to me. do you think the rings inside the 'o's will survive?
12:56:43	LambdaCalculus37	soap: What are you embroidering it onto?
12:56:50	soap	I'm afraid some of the construction lines might have to go as well, Zagor :(
12:57:01	soap	I'm awaiting feedback on that.
12:57:11	*	LambdaCalculus37 wants a towel
12:57:33	Zagor	I don't think that's a problem. the different colours and font sizes are probably enough to make it close enough
12:57:49	LambdaCalculus37	As long as you can recognize it for what it is.
12:58:00	soap	LambdaCalculus37, _I_ was thinking "mechanic's shirts". Logo embroidered on the right breast, "name tag" with embroidered IRCNick on left breast. For SCaLE.
12:58:17	LambdaCalculus37	soap: That works too. :)
12:58:21	soap	can wear unbuttoned and untucked over the stock shirt.
12:58:42	*	LambdaCalculus37 won't be able to attend SCaLE, but he likes the sound of the shirt
12:58:48	Zagor	soap: cool idea
12:59:07	LambdaCalculus37	soap: I was also thinking that they'd be ace for DevCon 2009.
12:59:54	soap	LambdaCalculus37, A - I can give you a shout when I get my price quotes in. B - the setup fee will be taken care of with this run. C - your nick is huge for a standard "name tag".
13:00
13:00:35	LambdaCalculus37	soap: Knock the 37 off of mine, then.
13:00:38	soap	Though I'm guessing we're talking ~$50
13:00:44	*	LambdaCalculus37 will save
13:00:48	soap	yea - THAT'S the long part of your nick.
13:01:39	LambdaCalculus37	Hehe...
13:01:44	*	LambdaCalculus37 has to go to work now
13:01:53	LambdaCalculus37	Gotta go!
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15:23:55	pyro_maniac	soap: are these shirts for everyone?
15:31:42	LambdaCalculus37	pyro_maniac: I think they're for staff and developers only.
15:34:18	pyro_maniac	hmm, so i have to hurry to get into this elite group ;-)
15:37:28	pyro_maniac	but maybe its a good opportunity to get something for users too
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15:39:16	gevaerts	pyro_maniac: you're free to make your own
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15:42:55	Zagor	wasn't there a cafepress shop a while back?
15:43:53	gevaerts	There was. IIRC there was one order once, and it got returned
15:44:00	Zagor	hehe
15:48:34	LambdaCalculus37	Zagor: Yes, Llorean used to run it, I believe.
15:49:08	*	kadoban would probably buy a t-shirt if one was available
15:49:57	LambdaCalculus37	kadoban: You can make your own shirt if you know a place that prints T-shirts.
15:50:42	kadoban	hmm, good point
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15:59:50	moos	kadoban: hi, did you fin someone to commit your plugin yet?
15:59:57	moos	*find
16:00
16:00:07	zz79	hi there! can anyone help me? i have a question and can't find answer on the faq or manual
16:00:08	kadoban	moos: not yet :)
16:00:55	kadoban	moos: actually i'm about to put up a new version...only a small change though
16:01:01	zz79	i have rockbox on an ipod mini 1st gen and it refuses to work with a headset remote or the remote functions from my dockbox
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16:02:35	moos	kadoban: If nobody seems interested to commit, I can do, because I canot leave this patch roting on the tracker.
16:02:37	fml	Shouldn't the plugin and codec API version be changed with the last commit?
16:03:12	kadoban	moos: that would be wonderful :) a few people have said good things, but nobody has really said they're going to commit it...
16:03:45	LambdaCalculus37	kadoban: Not true; I also expressed interest in committing it.
16:03:54	LambdaCalculus37	But if moos wants to commit it, he's welcome to.
16:03:59	moos	kadoban: then I will unless someone is against
16:04:06	jaykay	kadoban: fs entry?
16:04:10	kadoban	LambdaCalculus37: sorry, i didn't know if you were going to commit it or were just interested :)
16:04:18	kadoban	jaykay: FS #7369
16:05:19	LambdaCalculus37	kadoban: I thought I mentioned that. :)
16:05:35	kadoban	LambdaCalculus37: ahaha, it's possible. i had just woken up
16:07:04	moos	kadoban: I guess you intend to continue to work on it in the futur? I mean if bugs apears, optimisations, new features...
16:07:34	kadoban	moos: yes, especially if bugs come up...but also new features if they make sense
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16:07:53	LambdaCalculus37	Okay. I was hoping it wouldn't turn into another beatbox. :)
16:08:24	moos	hehe :)
16:10:00	LambdaCalculus37	Speaking of which, what should we do with the beatbox code? IIRC it doesn't compile correctly anymore, and the plugin barely does anything. It's also not compiled normally and looks like it hasn't been touched in years.
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16:11:19	moos	at least this is confined to plugins and don't disturb anything, maybe just wait and see the author back...
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16:37:01	fml	JdGordon: have you seen FS #9877?
16:37:30	fml	JdGordon: anf FS #9844 can be closed now IMO
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16:46:27	chibitactician	Hello all
16:47:03	chibitactician	I am interested in how rockbox ports are made in depth as well as the coding and bootloader
16:47:44		Quit chibitactician (Client Quit)
16:47:45	Zagor	chibitactician: great. ask what you want to know and we'll tell you where to read.
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16:48:06	Zagor	chibitactician: great. ask what you want to know and we'll tell you where to read.
16:48:27	chibitactician	how does the bootloader work?
16:50:24	Zagor	basically it mounts the disk and reads the firmware file into ram
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16:51:56	chibitactician	i found out on wikipedia that it is made w/ C can it be made with Python? and how hard is it for new ports to be made
16:52:14	Zagor	no it can not be made with python...
16:52:45	Zagor	how to make a new port: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/NewPort
16:54:02	chibitactician	ok can i ask why i mean python is easy to use and can be turned to C code as well as machine language
16:54:36	LambdaCalculus37	Because Rockbox isn't written that way.
16:55:03	gevaerts	You don't have the sort of low-level control in python that's needed for this sort of code
16:55:16	chibitactician	k got u
16:55:40	chibitactician	does anyone know how difficult it is
16:55:56	Zagor	"difficult" is a relative term
16:56:35	Zagor	it takes a lot of hardware research and reverse engineering, since we typically don't get any information from the manufacturers
16:56:50	chibitactician	ok
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16:58:24	chibitactician	i was wondering there are emulators for ipodlinux can any be made for rockbox like igpsp the gba emulator
16:59:08	Zagor	we have a gameboy emulator. it's called rockboy.
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16:59:58	chibitactician	gba=Game boy advance gb=gameboy gbc=gameboy color
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17:00:19	jaykay	yeah thanks, as already said, rockbox has a gameboy emulator
17:00:26	jaykay	nothing more
17:00:38	jaykay	feel free to write a gba emulator
17:01:08	chibitactician	im not skilled in emucoding
17:01:16	n1s	we have a chip8 and zx spectrum (?) and pacman emulators too
17:01:17		Quit Zagor ("Client exiting")
17:02:54	chibitactician	i saw what we have but i am not skilled enough in coding at all. i wanted to try the (S)NES form but it looked difficult and all i got out some build environment junk and compiling
17:03:18	kugel	pixelma: I put a patch to the data abort task
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17:16:03	n1s	Unhelpful: just a thought, if you care much about speed in the pictureflow plugin it might be worthwhile to turn it into a "subdir" plugin so it gets its own makefile and can set custom compiler flags such as O2, which can make a big difference in some cases
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17:19:45	fml	Any comments about increasing codec and plugin API version?
17:20:21	kugel	why codec?
17:21:00	kugel	why both anyway?
17:22:09	fml	kugel: because functions have been removed there. Or are the conditions the same as before?
17:22:51	kugel	you mean in r19971?
17:23:01	fml	yes
17:23:04	kugel	should probably be done, yes
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17:52:12	jhMikeS	No imcompatibily was introduced so I didn't bother. Only the names changed. Only dual-core was using those functions already.
18:00
18:03:48	kugel	jhMikeS: the structs changed, so the API version is to be incremented
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18:05:57	kugel	it's about plugins/codecs that are built against an older binary. if you build plugins against your version the API version doesn't matter, but if you don't, plugins won't work (and then they should rather exit with a usefull error message and not crash randomly or something like that)
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18:07:16	amiconn	kugel: The bump was unnecessary in this case
18:07:23	jhMikeS	kugel: it didn't change at all
18:07:34	jhMikeS	just the name of the member
18:07:44	amiconn	The names of the functions changed, but the functions still have the same signature
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18:08:10	kugel	oh, I see
18:09:08	kugel	well, but it doesn't hurt, does it? at least I sorted the new things in
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18:10:28	kugel	nice reds on the table
18:10:39	kugel	kadoban: seems you'll have some work to do ;)
18:10:44	kadoban	making a patch :(
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18:12:34	LambdaCalculus37	kugel: The red was moos' fault. It was his commit.
18:12:51	LambdaCalculus37	But it was kadoban's code, so we blame him. ;)
18:12:54	jhMikeS	what got sorted in I was thinking about a completely different approach that amicon has suggested using swi
18:13:14	kadoban	i think i have most of it, but i may have to exclude some targets, like D2 and such...not sure why D2 isn't red
18:14:38	kadoban	oh right, nevermind..D2 is touchpad
18:14:53	moos	LambdaCalculus37: you can blame on me :P
18:16:15	moos	btw the Bagder's script seems to wor :)
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18:16:21	moos	works
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18:29:07	kugel	Unhelpful: ping
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18:42:29	kugel	moos: int temp; (void)temp; ????
18:44:21	kadoban	kugel: gets rid of the "unused" warning. not used on ipods, i didn't work out the logic yet
18:45:05	kugel	is temp used at all?
18:45:46	kadoban	kugel: yes, on almost all targets...not sure on ipod, probably not. it should be ifdefd out probably, but that's the quick fix
18:49:09	kugel	kadoban: it's only used in that 1 case, right?
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18:49:39	kugel	I suppose it should be initialized in that case, and the case be a block
18:50:13	kugel	like this http://pastie.org/386176
18:50:54	kadoban	kugel: hmm, that looks right indeed
18:51:03	LambdaCalculus37	moos: Still some reds left.
18:51:16	kadoban	working on it...gotta exclude a few more targets
18:51:25	kugel	kadoban: should I commit? or does putting that stuff into a block break things
18:51:43	moos	LambdaCalculus37: yup, saw them waiting for kadoban
18:52:03	kadoban	kugel: no idea :) i can test it, i gotta finish one other change thing first though
18:52:05	LambdaCalculus37	kadoban: It's the Archos targets and the ZVM.
18:52:21	LambdaCalculus37	The Recorder, V2 Recorder, and the Ondios.
18:52:33	moos	I'm sure he know, he have the table too ;)
18:53:18	moos	let's him take his time and cook a full patch
18:53:50	kugel	btw, I don't think we put spaces between the function names and the parenthesis
18:54:07	*	kadoban isn't sure why these didn't fail when i built them myself...
18:54:16	kadoban	kugel: i don't think it's specified...i just used indent
18:54:52	moos	kugel: the patch followed our rules I think
18:55:15	*	domonoky doesnt care about this spaces, but the full function name (including the return type) should be on one line, unless its over 80 chars.
18:55:23	moos	but the idea was first to get this in, let's cosmetic after
18:55:51	linuxstb	Why are the Clip and M200s being excluded? Because they don't have enough buttons?
18:56:15	kadoban	linuxstb: because i didn't know they were built yet and i didn't come up with a keypad yet. they probably can be in eventually/soon
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18:57:00	kugel	moos: indeed, CONTRIBUTING isn't specific about this
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18:57:34	moos	linuxstb: speaking unsuported targets, any news about gigabeat installation you was working on (even if I know you are busy :)
18:57:42	moos	gigabeast
18:57:43	*	kadoban might be done...doing a test build or two
18:58:08	linuxstb	moos: No, I've had zero time to do Rockbox things. I was sort of waiting for someone to fix the sendfirm licensing issue as well...
18:58:29	kugel	kadoban: include my patch and let moos commit
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18:58:54	kadoban	kugel: yep, i included it...i'll send it to moos
18:59:11	moos	linuxstb: hehe :)
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19:00:03	linuxstb	moos: And quite a few people have been having problems with beast installation recently - the OF rejecting our updates and going into recovery mode. I haven't been following those closely though...
19:00:32	*	jhMikeS wonders why MCR WFI isn't being used for s3c2440 instead of that loop
19:00:39	moos	linuxstb: yeah indeed, encountered myself some OF stranginess
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19:05:16	moos	kadoban's fix commited
19:05:33	moos	or kadoban+kugel's fix even :)
19:07:38	pixelma	that ifdef looks weird
19:08:23		Quit nibbler_ (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
19:08:36	pixelma	and in case of the Archos it's not the reason for exclusion
19:10:17	kadoban	hmm, yeah i guess _PAD isn't really right. that bit will change once i come up with keypads for some of those though
19:11:29	kadoban	and i might be able to shrink those down to fit in RAM as well
19:12:10	linuxstb	Any idea how much your plugin is using?
19:12:31	kadoban	not really, no...i didn't know it was failing those builds...
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19:15:39	moos	what's about the philips? excluded too?
19:15:41	linuxstb	A comment in SUBDIRS explaining why those targets are excluded would be helpful - IIUC, some are because no-one has defined the keymap, and others are because of lack of memory.
19:16:05	kadoban	apparently i missed one, so i might as well fix them up and add a comment...doing it now
19:16:16	*	linuxstb wonders if there is a PLUGIN_RAM define available in SUBDIRS
19:16:24	moos	kadoban: do the 2 in the same rush
19:16:30	moos	oops too slow
19:16:30	linuxstb	Or PLUGIN_BUFFERSIZE or similar...
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19:17:12	moos	haha :D moos is spamed by the tracker mail
19:17:30	pixelma	there are those plugins which grab the audio buffer with those overlay loaders (rockboy, jpegviewer)
19:17:51	pixelma	or how that's called
19:17:55	linuxstb	Yes, seems to be PLUGIN_BUFFER_SIZE in config-$target.h which should be available.
19:18:22	amiconn	kadoban: If your plugin is too large to fit in 32KB of plugin ram on archoses, it could be made to work by making it an overlay, like chessbox, rockboy and zxbox
19:18:52	kadoban	amiconn: hmm, i'm not sure what that entails, but I can look into it.
19:18:59	amiconn	Do you know how much the plugin exceeds the available plugin buffer size?
19:19:22	kadoban	no idea...hopefully not by much. i'm hoping that i can just shrink a buffer or two somewhere
19:19:28	amiconn	Currently it requires some manual linker script fiddling, but fixing that is already on my todo list
19:20:06	amiconn	Then making a plugin an overlay would become relatively easy. Might be useful on other lowmem targets as well
19:20:11	kugel	moos: so the red mail is coming from the -cvs ml?
19:20:36	moos	kugel: From the tracker one.
19:20:53	kugel	from the tracker ml?? uh
19:21:23	*	kugel thought Bagder made it coming from -cvs
19:21:29	linuxstb	moos: They're being sent from "tracker@rockbox.org", but to the cvs mailing list.
19:21:54	moos	kugel: http://pastebin.ca/1334263
19:22:11	moos	linuxstb: ok
19:23:08	*	amiconn got no red mails y'day
19:23:36	moos	amiconn: Got it here
19:24:44	amiconn	moos: I'm not subscribed to that list. Never was...
19:25:23	moos	that explain it then :)
19:26:12	pixelma	btw. if you exclude the plugins for the Archos targets for now, it should also be excluded from their manuals...
19:26:33	LambdaCalculus37	The GoGear HDD1630 is the only target that still has red.
19:26:41	kadoban	pixelma: hmm, good point
19:26:44	LambdaCalculus37	kadoban: Better fix it.
19:27:03	amiconn	Well until now there really was no reason to. The svn commits are shown on the website, why would I need that dubbed as a mail?
19:27:04	kadoban	LambdaCalculus37: yeah, working on it...
19:27:38	Bagder	amiconn: I think it's easier to review commits when they arrive as mail, but of course that's matter of taste
19:27:53	moos	indeed
19:27:55	amiconn	Someone have a goban.map file handy? (preferably from a coldfire target)
19:28:47	*	amiconn prefers looking at the viewvc diffs
19:28:53	*	kadoban has no idea what PLUGIN_BUFFER_SIZE to require...i'm doing 0x60000 for now
19:29:47	amiconn	kadoban: The .map files tell you, hence my request...
19:32:56	bertrik	the svn:eol-style properties should probably be applied to the newly added files
19:33:24	amiconn	bertrik: Why? native is the default anyway afaik
19:33:54	bertrik	oh is it? almost all other source files in rockbox seem to have it
19:34:01	bluebrother	domonoky: around?
19:34:08	domonoky	jup
19:34:21	amiconn	bertrik: I know. I guess this is from the CVS to SVN conversion
19:34:47	amiconn	Maybe there is a reason though and I should re-read the svn docs...
19:35:40	bluebrother	I was trying to find a solution for the remount issue on OS X (faked it on linux)
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19:36:39	bluebrother	interestingly the code gives me a warning of a signal not connecting
19:36:49	moos	bertrik: oh I thought that I was good
19:37:20	bluebrother	Object::connect: No such slot BootloaderInstallIpod::checkRemount()
19:37:29	bluebrother	diff is here: http://www.pastebin.ca/1334282
19:37:31	bertrik	now I'm not so sure myself about what to do (whether to add it or not)
19:37:35	bluebrother	any idea what I'm doing wrong?
19:39:34		Quit kugel (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:39:38	bertrik	who's the resident svn expert?
19:40:07	moos	Zagor? Bagder?
19:41:21	domonoky1	bluebrother: where is this connect ? i dont find it in the diff ?
19:41:34	kadoban	amiconn: is there a reason you suggested coldfire goban.map file? (recorder and ondio are sh, right?)
19:42:17	amiconn	Yes. The archoses are SH1, but they all have the small plugin buffer. Coldfire code size is closer to SH1 code size than ARM
19:42:25	bluebrother	domonoky1: it's the QTimer call
19:42:33	kadoban	oh i see, thanks
19:43:21	amiconn	For most binaries, SH1_code_size < coldfire_code_size < arm_code_size. Coldfire is usually closer to SH1 than arm in this formula
19:43:22	bluebrother	hmm, using a "real" timer instead of the single shot static one might be an idea ...
19:44:01	domonoky1	perhaps its because its a protected slot ? maybe test with a public slot.
19:45:13	moos	bertrik: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/UsingSVN#Adding_a_new_file
19:46:05	bertrik	There's a ~/.subversion/config file that indicates what properties to set automatically when adding a new file
19:46:53	moos	update this page then? :)
19:47:34	amiconn	Imo we should provide an svn autoprops config for rockbox
19:48:39	moos	how hard is to do so?
19:49:22	moos	just provide a subversion config file?
19:50:09	kadoban	is the size just "plugin_end_addr - plugin_start_addr"? (about 40k) or is there an easier way to tell the minimum PLUGIN_BUFFER_SIZE? here's the map if it helps: http://www.majidejima.com/goban.map
19:50:15	bluebrother	hmm, using a public slot didn't change anything
19:51:47	amiconn	kadoban: yes
19:52:05	bluebrother	wow. The #if was the culprit :o
19:52:26	kadoban	thanks
19:52:40	amiconn	So in order to make it work on archos without resorting to an overlay, you'd need to reduce the size by about 8KB (40KB->32KB)
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19:53:44	kadoban	that might be doable, i'll have to play with it...for now i'll just exclude them though
19:54:31	moos	then do I have to exclude the philips build too for now?
19:55:02	kadoban	moos: yes, i have a patch, checking it over...it also removes them from the archos manual for now
19:55:06	amiconn	33KB code, 3KB read-only data, 664 byte initialized data, and >3KB bss
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19:55:41	moos	kadoban: ok, then I'll wait for your patch :)
19:56:35	bluebrother	nice, now it works. I'm still surprised that the preprocessor made it not work :/
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20:01:36	kadoban	moos: here it is http://www.majidejima.com/fix-goban-red.patch hard to test, but i think that's right
20:01:53	moos	ok
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20:02:29	moos	I will precise in the commit message, that more suported targets are coming soon. Hence you fixed RAM usage issue and keymappings
20:02:50	kadoban	yes, i'll work on those keymaps right after this...assuming no more reds
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20:07:44	*	BigBambi has mutilated the installation chapter beyond recognition :)
20:09:08	LambdaCalculus37	Yay!
20:09:31	moos	kadoban: commited
20:10:08	kadoban	moos: nice. hope that's the last of the reds...
20:10:32	moos	hehe :)
20:10:44	moos	it will
20:11:55	moos	be green I mean, of course
20:13:10	kadoban	ahah, yes...
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20:19:08	kadoban	thank god, all green. thanks moos, and everyone else :)
20:19:33	moos	np, thanks to you, for your amazing plugin
20:19:52	kadoban	:)
20:19:58	*	moos can go cook dinner and prepar for the soccer match ;)
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20:32:22	LambdaCalculus37	We're 22 commits away from 20000! :)
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20:34:10	PISSEDOFF	Great job on the new release. I tried rb a couple years ago and its come along way.
20:34:45	PISSEDOFF	I do have a question though. Is there anyway for me to sync or transfer ratings to and from itunes on a mac?
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20:47:05	BigBambi	PISSEDOFF: I don't think so, no
20:47:30	PISSEDOFF	ok, thanks BigBambi
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20:50:17	evilnick_230	PISSEDOFF: Check here: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=18720.0
20:50:57	PISSEDOFF	thanks evilnick_230
20:51:35	evilnick_230	There's not exactly good news though! It seems that there's no way currently to transfer the ratings.
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20:55:38	PISSEDOFF	i might be able to use sansamonkey in a vm. I'll post in the forums if i find a good solution for other mac users
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21:07:30	rasher	Unhelpful: Is there any reason that version.sh doesn't just use its own path rather than jumping through hoops to try and locate the src dir?
21:08:02	rasher	Unhelpful: While I'm add it, the head -n 1 is still there
21:08:53	rasher	Unhelpful: Doing TOP=.. is quite an assumption
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21:32:46	casainho	hello :-)
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21:35:22	casainho	can someone help me and tell how do I do turn debug when configure for the bootloader?
21:36:50	casainho	well, lloks like I can turn debug on when building the bootloader :-(
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21:37:14	casainho	if I do Advanced, it simple builds the firmware, no way to choose the bootloader, I think
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21:53:08	casainho	oh, turning on the DEBUG on configure for the firmware, just turns on the DEBUGF, and I was looking for the "-g" option for the GCC...
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22:11:04	*	domonoky1 detects an article about rockbox in a random pc magazin, i got for free. It even has rbutil on their CD.
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22:19:47	bluebrother	domonoky1: any known magazine?
22:20:14		Quit QuickStart (Remote closed the connection)
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22:21:31	domonoky1	not really. Its http://www.com-magazin.de/
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22:24:56	jaykay	indeed not the most famous one in germany
22:25:19	*	jaykay should get the latest com!...
22:25:27	BigBambi	Does a sansa/ipod install on Mac need root rights? I assume so, but want to check. Also, is that wat they call it on Mac?
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22:32:04	linuxstb	BigBambi: I don't think so, at least for ipods.
22:32:19	BigBambi	linuxstb: OK, thanks
22:32:19	linuxstb	But it's been a long time since I tried.
22:32:48	linuxstb	Check the manual (i.e. not rbutil) install instructions - they should be accurate (again, for the ipod at least).
22:33:05	linuxstb	I wrote them, and at the time I had a Mac.
22:33:19	BigBambi	linuxstb: Yes, I couldn't find it in there (it is what I am editing), but I just wanted to check
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22:34:58	linuxstb	BigBambi: Also, the existing instructions say to install Rockbox first, and _then_ the bootloader. This is on purpose (so the user isn't stuck with a bootloader that can't load anything).
22:35:08	linuxstb	Although I think rbutil does it the other way around.
22:35:43	BigBambi	linuxstb: What I'm trying to do is streamline it, as there is lots of info in the manual install bit only that is also useful for automaticv
22:36:15	BigBambi	linuxstb: So I'm trying to group common info and then have a smaller manual install section
22:36:48	BigBambi	And also cut out some repeated and (to my mind) not relevent info that only servers to confuse
22:37:18		Quit nibbler_ ("Ex-Chat")
22:37:38	BigBambi	linuxstb: But as I don't own some of the targets, and it is a fairly large overhaul, it'll need reading by plenty of people to point out where I've accidently cocked up something vital or useful
22:37:47	BigBambi	(I've obviously tried not to)
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22:38:16	evilnick_230	I've got a small-ish question about the button mappings: using a sansa e200 series, it seems that pressing Power should revert from the Track Info screen to WPS but you have to press either >>\| or \|<<.
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22:40:55	pixelma	linuxstb: I believe there is still a note about unmounting (or so) the Ipod before the bootloader installation in the "manual install" part and IIRC you said ipodpatcher would do it on its own - so if it's still in there it should go, right?
22:40:55	pixelma	linuxstb: I believe there is still a note about unmounting (or so) the Ipod before the bootloader installation in the "manual install" part and IIRC you said ipodpatcher would do it on its own - so if it's still in there it should go, right?
22:40:55	pixelma	I believe there is still a note about unmounting (or so) the Ipod before the bootloader installation in the "manual install" part and IIRC you said ipodpatcher would do it on its own - so if it's still in there it should go, right?
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22:41:25	pixelma_	I believe there is still a note about unmounting (or so) the Ipod before the bootloader installation in the "manual install" part and IIRC you said ipodpatcher would do it on its own - so if it's still in there it should go, right?
22:41:36	pixelma_	^ linuxstb
22:41:49	BigBambi	pixelma: 4 times :P
22:42:05	pixelma_	I'm sorry
22:42:09	BigBambi	hehe :)
22:42:39	pixelma_	I didn't see my messages get through
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22:44:43	linuxstb	pixelma: I think that's gone from the manual now. At least, I can't see it here - http://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-ipodcolor/rockbox-buildch2.html#x4-110002.3.2
22:45:32	BigBambi	Does the H100 ever give a -1 error and stop? Doesn't it just go straight to the OF? I can't check mine as RB is flashed to it
22:47:42	pixelma	linuxstb: can't see it anymore either... and sorry again
22:48:31	linuxstb	pixelma: No problem :)
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23:00
23:00:46	BigBambi	pixelma (and others): This is where I'm at at the moment - please let me know if you think I am going in the right direction or not: http://www.aeparker.com/stuff/rockbox-h300-r19966M-090211.pdf
23:03:57		Quit MethoS- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:04:59	linuxstb	BigBambi: Have you thought about moving the "not rbutil" install method into an appendix. I wouldn't want to lose those instructions, but it seems unnecessary to offer two different install methods to the average user.
23:05:18		Quit \|mr (Connection timed out)
23:05:29	BigBambi	linuxstb: Yes, I asked about that yesterday, and pixelmasaid she preferred to keep them for now :)
23:05:52	BigBambi	linuxstb: My initial thought was to move them :)
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23:09:17	pixelma	only as long as they contain info which is not in the automted installation part yet - and actually I'd like to not have such a hard cut between the two. Keeping everything together which is true for both and just a small branch for the actual difference (if possible)
23:09:46	BigBambi	pixelma: That's what I've tried to do
23:10:11	pixelma	I should have a closer look
23:10:31	BigBambi	I moved info stuff to the start, then have the two methods where they differ, then have a finishing installation section that is common to both
23:12:10	*	domonoky1 also prefers to keep them inplace, until "someone" improved rbutil, so that you really dont need the manual instructions.
23:12:16	pixelma	that's how I imagined it... but I should really read before commenting further
23:13:12	BigBambi	I'll do a quick tidy up then put a work in progress patch on flyspray along with a range of manuals
23:13:43	BigBambi	work in progress in the sense that I'm sure people will think of improvements/changes/want to scrap it etc :)
23:14:30	*	bluebrother wonders what exactly rbutil needs to get improved
23:14:50	bluebrother	better autodetection, handling of multiple devices, and ...?
23:14:56	BigBambi	bluebrother: The ability to install ipod/sansa bootloaders? :P
23:15:10		Quit slowmoe ()
23:15:15	bluebrother	hmm. Can't we do that already?
23:15:35	BigBambi	bluebrother: I'm referring to the bug in 1.0.8 and 1.0.9
23:16:04	bluebrother	well, we just need to create a new release ;-)
23:16:21	BigBambi	yep :) I was just winding you up more than anything :)
23:16:23	bluebrother	though I want to finish the remount fix for osx I'm working on first.
23:16:30	domonoky1	the ability to better guide dump users ? :-)
23:16:38	bluebrother	dump users? ;-)
23:16:50	domonoky1	s/p/b
23:16:50	bluebrother	"you are a dumb user, go away" g
23:17:06	pixelma	bluebrother: better feedback for targets where you have to take care of something after putting the "bootloader files" on the player (Iaudios, H100/300). Last I looked it mentioned this together in a splash with the "successful" message and people tend to click them away without reading much
23:17:22	pixelma	if it's already changed, I apologise
23:18:01	*	pixelma also too slow
23:18:24	bluebrother	last you looked? The bootloader rewrite (which also introduced the "no sansa" bug) changed that. Please tell me if the messages are still too brief
23:18:24	BigBambi	I have now moved those instructions out of the manual install only section of the manual into a general one, which might help. Of course, it would be good for rbutil to say that too
23:18:45	BigBambi	er, which it does :P
23:19:38	linuxstb	bluebrother: Regarding "what exactly in rbutil needs to get improved" - I would say "Can a user download rbutil and install Rockbox to the stage of it booting without ever reading the manual?" (I haven't used rbutil recently, so don't know).
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23:24:54	bluebrother	linuxstb: well, that of course raised the question on how much technical knowlege we can assume for the average user
23:24:58	pyro_maniac	hi there, I have a question. I am trying to port rockbox to samsung yh 920. now I compiled a h10 5G build with the lcd driver of the h100. on booting the player the screen first shows the samsung logo and after thatan empty screen. now I connected the player to windows and that noticed a rockbox player media. is this a normal behavior?
23:25:16	linuxstb	bluebrother: The same knowledge as the manual currently does...
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23:26:09	gevaerts	pyro_maniac: that means you're getting pretty far
23:26:12	bluebrother	well, then I'd say the things missing are (1) multiple player detection, (2) more user friendly autodetection and (3) working Quickstart installations :)
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23:27:16	pyro_maniac	so this means that the h10 5g build partly works?
23:27:42	gevaerts	pyro_maniac: have a look at http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PortalPlayerUsb#logf_over_USB_Serial and then study logf() a bit. If you find a linux PC, you can get debug output
23:28:42	linuxstb	bluebrother: I've just downloaded rbutil and (trying to think like a new user) am running it. The first thing that happens is that I get the dialog about "new installation or new version". It doesn't tell me that I should now attach my player, or (for devices that need special handling) how I need to connect (i.e. in UMS mode).
23:29:25	pyro_maniac	gevaerts: thanks, I will try
23:29:38	bluebrother	hmm. Good point.
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23:33:50	pixelma	speaking of portalplayer USB, I have the impression that the resets problem got worse lately, unfortunately I can't give numbers. It's just that when I first tried in the beginning of January I didn't notice any slowdown when my c200 was connected to the PC's backport so didn't check if resets still happened, yesterday there was a slowdown (first tried with a 2 weeks old build, then updated)
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23:34:36	pixelma	connected to the frontports was unusable back then too and still is
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23:35:59	pixelma	not sure how to measure,
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23:36:27	gevaerts	The problem with these resets is that they are basically random. What actually happens is that there are lots of transmission errors (always, even for people who don't see resets), and if you happen to have a bunch close together the PC resets the bus.
23:37:25	gevaerts	So the only way to measure reliably is to actually measure the number of low-level errors, and for that you need a hardware tracer
23:38:07	pixelma	I see. Thanks for the info
23:38:14	gevaerts	but I'm not sure if this number is very interesting. Either we have errors or we don't. On the beast there are zero errors
23:38:25	gevaerts	Same for the sansa OF
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23:39:55	linuxstb	bluebrother: BTW, I think "ipod colour" should be "ipod color" - it's Apple's model name.
23:40:43	linuxstb	(in the target list in rbutil)
23:41:05	bluebrother	good point. Will change.
23:42:05	bluebrother	we should make model names consistent too −− currently we have Ipod (as in the manual) but iAudio
23:42:54	BigBambi	http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9895
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23:45:04	kadoban	is there any way to test every build in the build table at once?
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23:46:13	Bagder	kadoban: not really, but there are some scripts you can play with to get there
23:46:23	Bagder	like these => http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/trunk/tools/release/
23:46:44	kadoban	Bagder: ah okay, thanks
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23:53:54	SoapWork	Something scorche and I had been thinking about taking to SCaLE was a couple of posters about Rockbox. I have a wide format (48") photo printer at work, and can make a Rockbox Logo banner, and as I understand there will be room also at the Rockbox table for two posters.
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23:54:31	SoapWork	I am busy as s*&^ right now, and wanted to throw the idea out there, and perhaps someone would be interested in designing one of (or both) of the posters.
23:57:00	SoapWork	I was _thinking_ something perhaps along the lines of a reworked "Why Rockbox" summary as one of the posters. Perhaps the other poster could be "Rockbox Facts" - including some of the geekier details such as # of active commiters, details on the build system, different architectures supported - how differences between architectures are delt with, some history, hurdles legal technical and other, etc etc.
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