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#rockbox log for 2009-02-24

00:00:36 Quit intrados (Connection reset by peer)
00:01:26 Quit rocko ("Leaving")
00:01:45 Join intrados [0] (n=intrados@cpe-71-67-133-85.woh.res.rr.com)
00:02:28 Join rocko [0] (n=rocko@c-67-167-117-152.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
00:02:59 Quit saratoga ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
00:03:34 Join jhMikeS [50] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS)
00:04:39linuxstbjhMikeS: beastpatcher has the bootloader.bin embedded in it (similar to ipodpatcher and sansapatcher), and it creates the single-boot nk.bin on the fly. You just run it without any parameters and confirm at the prompt.
00:04:57jhMikeSah, neat.
00:05:57toffe82linuxstb: yesterday I tried it on linux and it was not working, did you make any changes ?
00:06:24linuxstbNot knowingly... Was that before or after I committed the windows changes?
00:06:47toffe82I think before, it was yestrerday morning
00:07:03linuxstbWhat happened when you ran it?
00:07:09toffe82the player ends up with a screen error 3 needs to reload firmware
00:07:16 Part captainkwel
00:07:24toffe82I try it with OF 1.1 and 1.2
00:07:38linuxstbSo the upload appears to work, but then the firmware is rejected?
00:07:45toffe82beastpatcher was saying upload ok
00:07:51toffe82yes
00:08:36linuxstbDoes your beast accept a single-boot bootloader with sendfirm?
00:08:54toffe82I didn;t try it
00:09:01 Join donald [0] (n=donald@host207-29-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
00:09:09linuxstbSo you reinstalled a dual-boot bootloader?
00:09:40toffe82rockbox is not installed, it is a "brand new second hand" that I never used
00:10:09toffe82I will try to installed with sendfirm
00:10:16donaldhi there
00:10:25jhMikeSlinuxstb: Just have MTP_DLL.dll in the same dir and an OF nk.bin and run it?
00:10:40toffe82but the usb connection is ok as I can upfate with the OF updater
00:11:33 Part donald ("Ex-Chat")
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00:17:58 Join jordoex [0] (n=quassel@d142-058-063-071.wireless.sfu.ca)
00:18:19*jhMikeS gets Found Device "<unknown> - <unknown>"
00:19:56 Quit bertrik ("freaks!")
00:20:37jhMikeSthis comes up: jhmikes.cleansoap.org/beastpatcher_message.bmp">http://jhmikes.cleansoap.org/beastpatcher_message.bmp then I click "cancel" and it claims it sent it successfully.
00:20:41jhMikeSso...let's see
00:21:55jhMikeSwell, it worked here. it rebooted rockbox loaded up after pulling the cable.
00:22:15 Join Zoxc [0] (n=zoxc@ti0128a340-dhcp0438.bb.online.no)
00:22:26jhMikeSlet's try it with just OF and no RB bl so I don't get locked out
00:22:37linuxstbjhMikeS: OK, thanks. I've no idea what that message means...
00:22:41 Join BigBambi [0] (n=alex@55.198.66-86.rev.gaoland.net)
00:23:18linuxstbThat <unknown> message is expected - MTP_DLL.dll doesn't expose the device model name etc
00:23:34jhMikeSI didn't get a combined bl, just a single-boot one though.
00:23:43linuxstbYes, that's all it does at the moment.
00:24:04 Quit Zagor ("Clint excited")
00:25:10jhMikeSIt just overwrote the dual-boot one I threw on there. I seriously suggest to try padding the single boot bootloader just to see if it's a size issue.
00:25:17 Quit Cardoe ("Leaving")
00:25:28jhMikeSIt's not for me so I can't do anything there
00:25:40 Quit bmbl ("Woah!")
00:26:53linuxstbWhat overwrote the dual-boot one?
00:27:05 Quit intrados (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:27:30 Quit BigBambi ("No Ping reply in 30 seconds.")
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00:28:24jhMikeSlinuxstb: beastpatcher overwrote the dual-boot nk.bin I put on there to test it with a plain single-boot bootloader
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00:29:06 Join BigBambi [0] (n=alex@55.198.66-86.rev.gaoland.net)
00:29:16linuxstbjhMikeS: Sorry, I'm not understanding the problem - that's what beastpatcher does...
00:29:16 Join stripwax [0] (n=Miranda@87-194-34-169.bethere.co.uk)
00:30:13jhMikeSWell, initially you told me it combined the OF nk.bin with the stored bootloader so I was expecting a dual-boot result.
00:30:15 Quit bs66_ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
00:30:45linuxstbNo, I didn't say that.
00:30:54*jhMikeS reads back and realizes he read that linuxstb said all wrong :\ haha
00:31:12linuxstb;)
00:31:34jhMikeSactually, then it would be kind of neat if it had the functionality of mknkboot in there as well
00:31:47linuxstbYes, that's on the to-do list.
00:32:08linuxstbliterally - see TODO in the beastpatcher source ;)
00:33:02 Quit BigBambi (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
00:33:08linuxstbBut I also want to explore the idea of undeleting the OF nk.bin
00:33:14***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:33:17 Quit stripwax ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
00:34:42 Join BigBambi [0] (n=alex@55.198.66-86.rev.gaoland.net)
00:34:58linuxstbjhMikeS: At what point did that error message appear? After the firmware had been uploaded?
00:35:26 Join cool_walking_ [0] (i=cb3b81c3@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-663046dd9fe7ae23)
00:35:54linuxstbjhMikeS: Also, what version of WMP do you have installed? BigBambi couldn't get Windows to recognise his beast in Windows...
00:36:40BigBambiOn three different XP PCs - two with WMP 11, one with WMP 10
00:37:19BigBambiI take it we have a success?
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00:37:34linuxstbYes, although with a stange error message...
00:37:44linuxstbNot unlike Linux.
00:38:07*linuxstb guesses the Beast doesn't cleanly stop talking to the host before rebooting into the new firmware
00:38:10jhMikeSlinuxstb: Version: 11.0.5721.5230. Strange thing is I went through exactly the same steps with sendfirm-win after a restore and it failed.
00:39:01BigBambilinuxstb: linux beastpatcher worked fine again though :)
00:39:21linuxstbBigBambi: But not for toffe82...
00:39:37BigBambihmmm, really?
00:39:38toffe82:(
00:39:44BigBambiHe has the newer OF version IIRC
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00:40:03 Join thegeek_ [0] (n=nnscript@s243b.studby.ntnu.no)
00:40:03toffe82I tried like 4 or 5 time and no luck, always the same error
00:40:19linuxstbtoffe82: Whilst running the OF, or in recovery mode?
00:40:19toffe82I tried with of 1.1 too
00:40:30toffe82running the of
00:40:35 Join sarixe [0] (n=sarixe@ool-43540968.dyn.optonline.net)
00:40:48BigBambiI had beastpatcher work perfectly from both OF and recovery mode
00:40:53*jhMikeS thinks something updated the flash loader to be a little more picky
00:41:06toffe82do you have to be in recovery mode ?
00:41:18BigBambiI didn't even lose any data when it went into recovery mode and I used beastpatcher
00:41:33BigBambitoffe82: No, I did it most from OF
00:41:35toffe82did you had rockbox already installed ?
00:41:35jhMikeStoffe82: did that very same device once work with just a plain rb nk.bin
00:41:36 Join Barahir_ [0] (n=jonathan@Yb8ac.y.pppool.de)
00:42:23BigBambitoffe82: yes, then I went back to the OF only, then beastpatcher
00:42:29toffe82I will try an install with sendfirm
00:43:38 Quit mcuelenaere ()
00:46:09linuxstbjhMikeS: When in the process did that error message appear?
00:47:15jhMikeSAfter hitting 'i'
00:49:16 Quit jordoex (Connection timed out)
00:49:22linuxstbImmediately, or do you think the firmware could have been uploaded first?
00:50:14jhMikeSIt did that after clicking "cancel"
00:50:17linuxstbAfter you press i, the "send_fw" function in MTP_DLL.dll is called, which find the beast, uploads the firmware, then closes. So I'm wondering where in that process it happened.
00:50:21 Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection)
00:50:23linuxstbAh, OK.
00:50:42linuxstbSo different to the error I get on Linux with libusb (which happens when it tries to close the device)
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01:00
01:00:02jhMikeSlinuxstb: If I use the libUSB variant on Windows, it does the same
01:03:50linuxstbOK, I guess we just need to document that then. (for now at least)
01:05:04linuxstbDo we know anyone who has succeeded with a (properly upgraded) 1.2 beast?
01:05:50*linuxstb hopes that whatever exploit we're exploiting wasn't fixed...
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02:02:27 Part toffe82
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02:18:06jhMikeSlinuxstb: are you saying that there are beasts that cannot be upgraded at all, dual boot or not?
02:19:02jhMikeS*upgraded to rockbox* of course
02:19:35linuxstbNo, I was just wondering if anyone had succeeded on 1.2
02:21:12linuxstbToshiba kept the v1.2 update very well hidden, so I'm just thinking that maybe no-one has tried it until toffe82 found it...
02:24:04jhMikeSI seem to recall that when he tried it (isn't that the firmware upgrade he found?), he succeeded using dual boot but not single boot and that's why I asked him if it ever worked as single boot before that upgrade but no answer on that.
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02:25:17linuxstbOK, nothing to worry about then...
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02:26:15jhMikeSlinuxstb: I could be mistaken with this. I'd just direct detailed questioning to him. I'll try again myself to do so.
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02:33:18***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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02:52:00cool_walking_Hey, anyone know who David Kauffman is?
02:53:39zeisn't that the guy who faked andy kauffman's death?
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02:53:44JdGordonname sonds familiar....
02:53:53cool_walking_There's a theme, "Rocker", on WpsIpod5g by him that looks like it's taken some graphics from ultimate-guitar.com
02:53:57JdGordoncheck IrcNicks
02:54:50cool_walking_not on there
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02:57:41linuxstbcool_walking_: Where on ultimate-guitar.com are the graphics you think have been taken?
02:59:02cool_walking_The background is ( http://img.ultimate-guitar.com/_img/bgd.gif ), and the whole thing looks similar to those boxes on the front page. I think I might have seen that guitar pic used in an article once, but I guess guitars look similar.
03:00
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03:05:45Unhelpfulhere, i think, is what i'm going to do with pictureflow. the only think synchronized between threads will be the album index. the "loader" thread will start at the center, and try to load as many slides to each side of it as possible. it will try to use rb->bufalloc to get the memory first, and then fall back to allocating from the plugin buffer if that fails. if the cache table is full, or bufalloc fails and the plugin buffer is full,
03:05:45Unhelpfulit will free the farthest cache entry from the current center.
03:07:04cool_walking_oh wait, David Kauffman just updated it. Jason Tanz created it... aaand the .wps says "Designed by |2eM!x".
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03:10:38cool_walking_and there is a member at ultimate-guitar with a strangely familiar name: http://profile.ultimate-guitar.com/|2eM!x/ ....
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03:13:21zenick like that could Easily be a coincidence.... :P
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06:24:02Alex00088I'm looking to change the source so that I get this effect −−−−- (assuming "Skip Length" is set to 1 minute) When there is less than 1 minute left in the current song, and I click the 'skip forward' button, playback skips to the next song in the playlist (instead of doing nothing). Would this take a lot of work?
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06:34:22Alex00088I'm new to IRC. Can you see what I'm typing?
06:35:54cool_walking_Yes, we can.
06:36:15cool_walking_People just don't answer if they're not at their keyboards or they don't know the answer.
06:39:43Alex00088ok
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09:43:05B4gderwas the usb parts of the as3525 that was the synopsys thing?
09:44:51B4gderah yes it is
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09:49:06LloreanIs there new stuff in this recently publicly released data sheet?
09:49:28B4gdernot that I know
09:50:09B4gderI just added a response about USB on the AMS Sansas on my usb post: http://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2009/02/19/rockbox-usb-a-long-journey/#comment-1109
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09:51:56B4gderbut 1.1 to 1.12 should include some differences one would suspect
09:52:42B4gderalthough the newer is actually a tiny bit smaller
09:58:37n1sgoogle tells me samsung has licensed usb stuff from synosis so there's a good chance this controller is in the meizus as well
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10:00:31B4gderah, is there documented usb stuff for any samsung chip?
10:01:21LloreanThere's a link to the "USB Complete Solution Datasheet" on their site. It looks like it's supposed to be a download after you fill in some personal information. Is this one of those marketing/advertising "datasheets" or have we tried that yet?
10:01:28LloreanEr "their" being Synopsys
10:01:46B4gderyeah, I did exactly that
10:03:45B4gderthat shows a 2 page sales pitch
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10:14:08LloreanB4gder: Did you see there's a "Databook" link for the device as well?
10:14:49B4gderno, where?
10:15:16Lloreanhttp://www.synopsys.com/dw/ipdir.php?c=dwc_usb_2_0_hs_otg_subsystem-ahb
10:15:26LloreanIt's behind the signup again, though
10:18:10B4gder"To access Synopsys protected applications, you must provide an Active Site ID in the field below."
10:18:22B4gder:-/
10:18:42Llorean=/
10:19:33B4gderand that's apparently something you get when you've bought some product from them
10:20:07B4gderanyway. I submitted a contact form asking them for more info
10:20:29CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
10:20:29*B4gder loves filling in CEO as job title
10:21:04LloreanI found a 1000 page doc for their USB *verification* product. =/
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10:55:27gevaertsB4gder: the USB device-side part in the meizus is the same as that in the tcc chips
10:55:59B4gderdid you check if they have any similarities to the 3525 internals?
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10:57:53gevaertsno. That would need someone who's good at reading disassembled OFs I guess
10:58:01B4gderindeed
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11:00:34*gevaerts would like them to be the same because then we can give the source files a correct name
11:03:00B4gdernow I would love to find that imx31 uses the synopsys, but I really can't... :-/
11:03:39B4gdereven though clearly synopsys and freescale have a lot of business together
11:06:08gevaertsimx31 is ARC, which IIRC was taken over by someone since. Not sure who though
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11:38:35linuxstbamiconn: Do you know which OSes will hide the gigabeat S partition but still allow it to be mounted? (using the "hidden FAT32" type ?)
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11:40:28linuxstbmcuelenaere: When using sendfirm.exe, did it give you an error message before uploading the firmware? I guess you've only used it with Creative devices?
11:40:47mcuelenaereI can't quite remember, but I can imagine it would
11:40:57mcuelenaereand yes, only Creative ZVM (I don't have a beast)
11:41:09mcuelenaerebut the process should be exactly the same
11:41:26linuxstbjhMikeS reported this - jhmikes.cleansoap.org/beastpatcher_message.bmp">http://jhmikes.cleansoap.org/beastpatcher_message.bmp
11:42:05mcuelenaereyes, I read it on IRC
11:42:33mcuelenaereI'm not sure what it means, but I got that message at times too (although doing unrelated stuff)
11:43:10linuxstbOK. It seems harmless though... Maybe it's something to do with the search for devices.
11:43:20mcuelenaerehave you tried googling it?
11:43:39linuxstbOnly very quickly.
11:44:20linuxstbPeople seem to report it when viruses are present...
11:44:25mcuelenaerehmm I'm getting forum posts saying to do virus scans..
11:44:47mcuelenaereis it reproducable?
11:45:01linuxstbI don't know - I haven't tried it on Windows.
11:45:10linuxstbAll I know is what jhMikeS said last night.
11:45:53mcuelenaerejhMikeS: have you tried doing this again to see whether you get the same message?
11:46:03*linuxstb is still looking for a volunteer to clean up beastpatcher for WIndows and build it as a single .exe without external dll ;)
11:48:25mcuelenaereheh :) then I'll need to find my ZVM again :)
11:48:32mcuelenaerehttp://www.microsoft.com.nsatc.net/communities/newsgroups/list/en-us/default.aspx?dg=microsoft.public.ph.philippines.certified&tid=9ec0268c-cc03-4e7f-a88f-c25c4a903180&cat=&lang=&cr=&sloc=&p=1#63ffa141-831b-48f3-b524-04082d4cf956 could be useful
11:50:15mcuelenaerelinuxstb: could compiling MTP_DLL as some sort of lib and then linking it with mingw32 work? that way, the other files don't need to get adjusted to VS2005
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11:56:05linuxstbmcuelenaere: Possibly, if the lib is in a format that mingw32 likes. But I would also like the API in MTP_DLL.dll to be extended a little. The libmtp version splits it into mtp_init(), mtp_scan(), mtp_send_firmware() and mtp_finished() functions.
11:56:35mcuelenaereyes I know, I'm not sure how I'm going to do that..
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11:57:34linuxstbYou could test it up to the send_firmware() part, and just type "c" for cancel... Others are available to test that part actually works. Unless you are saying you don't know how to do that with the win32 MTP lib?
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11:59:13mcuelenaereyes, I meant the win32 MTP lib part; I'm not really familiar with the Win32 API so I'll need to look up some stuff
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12:05:35linuxstbmcuelenaere: OK, I guess the most important part is getting it building as a single .exe in some way though. The MTP stuff seems "good enough" as it is, although it would be nice to improve it.
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12:07:08VirtualdistanceA question about v2 sansa e series , does the soundchip of e series v2 remind of another player thats rockboxed?
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12:12:07mcuelenaerehmm compiling as a static library doesn't seem to work, I'm afraid I'll have to compile all the code in VS2005..
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12:12:18Alex00088I'm looking to change the source so that I get this effect −−−−- (assuming "Skip Length" is set to 1 minute) When there is less than 1 minute left in the current song, and I click the 'skip forward' button, playback skips to the next song in the playlist (instead of doing nothing). Would this take a lot of work?
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12:16:07linuxstbmcuelenaere: Yes, I was expecting that... If/when you commit any changes, could you update the beastpatcher/README file with instructions for building under Windows ?
12:16:32mcuelenaeresure, but it'll require VS2005 (or later)
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12:17:07linuxstbI know :(
12:17:30linuxstbStill, it's not something that's likely to change much after the initial versions.
12:18:41mcuelenaereok, I got sendfirm_win to compile under VS2005; now trying beastpatcher..
12:19:20Virtualdistancehey anyone compiled a working mpa.codec for rockbox v2 yet?
12:19:33Virtualdistancesansa e series
12:19:36linuxstb"rockbox v2" ?
12:19:44linuxstbYou mean the v2 e200 series?
12:19:48Virtualdistanceyup
12:20:36Virtualdistancewma kinda works here :)
12:21:02linuxstbI think there are playback problems on all the AMS Sansa ports, but I don't know the specifics.
12:21:32Virtualdistanceit plays radio fine .
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12:22:54LloreanVirtualdistance: The AMS Sansa ports aren't expected to work right yet. There for people to work on right now. If you're experiencing issues, you could help and investigate them further.
12:23:14Virtualdistancei am
12:23:35Virtualdistanceim trying every codec avaiable from the other players to see if they load up
12:24:59LloreanI meant, for example, writing debug code to determine where in the codec failure occurs.
12:25:37LloreanAnd, to clarify, when asking about it you should ask about "Rockbox for (player name)". Rockbox v2 sounds like you're asking about the v2 release of Rockbox from ages upon ages ago.
12:25:48Virtualdistanceim checking if some other codec is similiar.
12:26:13linuxstbVirtualdistance: The problem is likely to not be in the specific ".codec" file, but somewhere in Rockbox itself.
12:26:32linuxstbThe .codec files are generic code, which work fine on all other targets.
12:26:50Virtualdistancenice to know.
12:27:23Virtualdistancei'll play around with it then :)
12:27:43linuxstbIIUC, the flash driver is also unreliable, so it could simply be caused by reading bad data from the disk... i.e. the problems could be anywhere...
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12:29:01Virtualdistancewell at least it didn't format my player , its still 8gb :)
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12:35:30mcuelenaerelinuxstb: is bin2c out-of-the-box VS2005 compatible? (guess not)
12:35:41LloreanVirtualdistance: If it's formatted to 8gb, you could easily be having problems just because files aren't always within the first 1GB
12:37:08linuxstbmcuelenaere: Ah, that's a good point. You could simply run "make bootimg.c" in a "normal" environment before.
12:37:19linuxstbAnd make VS2005 just use that.
12:43:29mcuelenaerelinuxstb: where does bootloader.bin come from? is that a RB beast BL?
12:45:32mcuelenaerenever mind, /me didn't RTFM
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12:48:15pixelmaI'm currently looking at the invadrox graphics and adaptation to the small screens. Currently it uses one big bitmap which contains all needed graphics + a lot of defines in absolute pixels that help divide the bitmap into the needed parts later. IMO it would be better to split that up into a few bitmap (strips where possible) so that it can get the dimension defines from the bitmaps.
12:48:15pixelmaThis will help simplifying the code and make it more flexible if one wants to invent a new size but the number of bitmaps in the source will increase (I think it needs 9 instead of 1 - unfortunately 4 of them would be "single" bitmaps - for each of the currently 2 different sizes and I'll probably draw 1 more size). I'd like to have some opinions beforehand, or other ideas...
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12:50:28linuxstbpixelma: That sounds sensible to me.
12:51:57LloreanSame here
12:52:54pixelmaalright, thanks for the opinion. :)
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12:56:28pixelmamaybe you could save some bitmaps by using a "real" font and not own bitmaps for it bit that would only be possible (without disturbing too much) if the plugin could chose that one itself, e.g. the current small version uses bitmaps which are 5 pixels tall for the numbers
12:56:43pixelmas/bit/but
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12:59:42pixelmaor maybe it could use sysfont but then there will be some small difference to how it looks now
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13:40:20freqmod_gqVirtualdistance: i lisened to mp3, ogg and spx on sansav2 and i think the bit problems are before the audio is decoded (the artifacts are similar to DAB and DVB streams with bit errors)
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13:41:01freqmod_gqthat leaves the errors to the buffering code or the ram, which are a bit strange since we don't have any problems with loading of plugincode etc.
13:41:03freqmod_gq*listened
13:42:23PhotoguyHey, I've been away for a while, any new info on the Sansa V2?
13:42:24freqmod_gqthe flash buffering improves skips etc. (makes the skips smaller, but not remove it) so it seems to be a problem with buffering, ram, filesystem or something like that.
13:42:39LloreanPhotoguy: Have you read the latest in the forum thread and wiki pages?
13:43:06B4gderPhotoguy: and we call them the AMS Sansas now
13:43:37PhotoguyAMS?
13:43:41B4gderexactly
13:43:42PhotoguyWow, it's been a while :P
13:44:17PhotoguySo, it's still not stable yet, huh?
13:45:03LloreanWhen it's ready for users, we'll list it as supported.
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13:46:52PhotoguyAny idea how long? (Trying to decide wether an E200 AMS is worth it.
13:46:59LloreanIt's really impossible to even guess.
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14:10:41BuschelIs there a usecase known that uses the iPods lineout without the need to enable accessory supply?
14:11:58LloreanYeah, basic docks.
14:14:44Buschelhmm, a pitty. I wanted to include lineout on/off to the accessory supply handling...
14:16:04LloreanThe line out is going to be used in a wide range of docks and dock-like things that will be providing power to the iPod, rather than the other way around.
14:17:49BuschelOk, but if these docks supply the iPod with power it would be no problem to enable accessory supply then. Only the wording of the setting could be better "Use with accessory" or something similar. But before talking of such some measurements need to be done ;-)
14:18:35LloreanWell, people shouldn't have to turn on a setting just to set it down in a dock and use it.
14:18:52LloreanMost people are going to set it down, then come complaining that it's not working with their dock since the original firmware doesn't require a setting.
14:19:26BuschelThe setting is on by default. But for power-conscious users this setting is one of the important ones.
14:21:07LloreanAh, okay
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14:44:07freqmod_gqIs it correct that md5sum shall output empty md5sum-files when invoked with "Open with.." on a file?
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14:59:51hollywoodbwhen http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/TargetStatus says NO for USB, does that mean you boot into the manufacturer's environment to transfer tracks on to a device and then reboot into rockbox when you want to do playback?
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15:00:32B4gderhollywoodb: yes
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15:04:44hollywoodbalso, does the e200 port support the e260? and is so is there a reliable way to determine if it has compatible firwmare before purchasing it online?
15:05:21B4gderyes it does, and yes there is but you won't get anyone to do the check for you
15:05:44B4gderit would be to check the firmware version
15:05:49B4gderof the original firmware on the device
15:07:04scorcheif it is a new e260, then it is almost guaranteed that it will be incompatible (for now at least) though
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15:30:53*linuxstb thinks we should perhaps start saying "e200 series", as many people as about the specific models...
15:31:04linuxstb^ask about
15:31:33B4gderyeah, clearly
15:31:34Unhelpfulthat or "e2XX"
15:33:03linuxstbSandisk really don't help us with their model names...
15:33:48linuxstbDevices with the same name are completely different, and devices which are identical (apart from disk size) have different names...
15:34:16*freqmod_gq has modified md5sum plugin and run it on sansa clip, and got a completly different sum than when doing the same in the simulator on the same file
15:34:44freqmod_gqwhich means that if somebody wants to fix skipping on ams-sansas they should fix that first
15:35:03linuxstbIsn't "disk issues" a known problem though?
15:35:41freqmod_gqyes, it is, but then we know that it is not the buffering, or audio codec (which we allready suspected)
15:36:38linuxstbThere's nothing ruling out additional bugs there though, is there?
15:37:54freqmod_gqno, it is not, however if file reading doesn't work that would make that the lowest common determinator
15:38:35freqmod_gqbut it is strange that there are few problems with file reading of programs (plugins, firmware etc.)
15:38:46freqmod_gqit might be dependent on the filesize
15:47:28LloreanI thought we already knew it had problems with larger files
15:47:36LloreanFor some time now.
15:47:57*Llorean seems to recall a few people experimenting on exactly that in here some time ago on the Clip
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16:02:38LambdaCalculus37n1s: Ping!
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16:11:23*LambdaCalculus37 has found an alternate way of entering DFU mode on newer nanos, and it doesn't require trashing any firmware!
16:11:38mcuelenaere\o/
16:11:58linuxstbHolding menu+select?
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16:12:28LambdaCalculus37linuxstb: Yes, and letting the iPod reset twice. After it resets a second time, immediately press and hold BACK+PLAY until the dock connector picture appears.
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16:13:22BigBambiLambdaCalculus37: You are linux4nano :)
16:13:28BigBambis/are/or
16:14:03LambdaCalculus37BigBambi: linux4nano found it on the 4th gen nano, but I just tested it on my 2nd gen.
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16:18:27linuxstbDoes anyone actually know the details of how DFU mode works though?
16:18:41mcuelenaereIsn't there a DFU tool in SVN?
16:19:16evilnick_6LambdaCalculus37: What's the button on the beast to not connect to USB and power it instead?
16:19:58LambdaCalculus37mcuelenaere: There's meizu_dfu, and if you adjust the UID:VID to match that of the nano, it'll communicate with it.
16:20:05LambdaCalculus37evilnick_6: Oh crap, forgot. :P
16:20:12*LambdaCalculus37 just had a brain fart
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16:20:50BigBambievilnick_6: menu
16:21:00BigBambi(i.e. the Windows Key)
16:21:08evilnick_6Cheers BigBambi, back in a bit (need to restart Windows)
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16:21:12LambdaCalculus37BigBambi: Many thanks for saving me from a nasty brain fart. :)
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16:21:24BigBambiheh :)
16:22:32*kugel ugs at http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9949
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16:26:53mcuelenaerelinuxstb: shall I commit what I have even though the EXE doesn't want to run?
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16:29:20linuxstbmcuelenaere: Hmm, I'm not sure. At least the current version will run and work...
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16:55:25LloreanOkay, just to summarize, discussion has once again broken out about the idea of any filetype Rockbox shows in "supported" mode being in playlists and running with the appropriate viewer (or core action, in the case of .cfg etc) when they're reached in the playlist
16:55:54LloreanThis would, of course, allow one to shuffle in a selection of themes with their random playlist so that their theme changes as they listen, or playlist up several videos, etc.
16:56:03kadobanthat would be cool for goban plugin too, for doing go problems
16:56:33evilnick_6Llorean: Would there be a way to specify "choose a random .wps for each file in this shuffled playlist"?
16:57:09Lloreanevilnick_6: No. It would just be a playlist where some of the files were theme.cfg instead of song.mp3, so when you hit that file in the playlist it changes themes.
16:57:13LloreanIt works for a variety of things
16:57:36LloreanFor example, with unshuffled playlists, you could have it start crossfeed before certain albums mastered in a way that essentially needs it, and disable after.
17:00
17:00:38linuxstbWouldn't having per-track/per-album .cfg files (e.g. named using a similar method to AA) be more useful? That's often been requested.
17:01:08LloreanMore useful within that one context, sure.
17:01:30gevaertsThat's a lot less flexible. With any-supported-item playlists you can do things like video playlists, or alternating video/audio
17:01:38LloreanBut that wouldn't allow playlisting of videos or other things you could do with the flexibility.
17:02:00*Llorean thinks many people might want to throw music videos into their playlist.
17:02:55linuxstbgevaerts: But that's also more inconvenient for this example - the user would have to create playlists, and add the cfg to every playlist with specific albums/tracks.
17:03:32LloreanIf you "Insert" the folder, it could insert the .cfg file in that folder too.
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17:04:01linuxstbYes, but that needs care to make sure it's added in the right place.
17:04:08gevaertsThis won't work well with shuffle
17:04:32*gevaerts thinks that maybe both features should be considered as separate things
17:05:09LloreanBoth features can be considered separately I'm sure.
17:05:49LloreanI just think "deal with any file being in a playlist" would add an awful lot of interesting (in a positive way) behaviour. though there'd be kinks to work out with insertion
17:05:55 Quit Zagor ("Client exiting")
17:06:12gevaertsSure. I want it!
17:06:22*gevaerts doesn't care much about per-album settings
17:07:30LloreanFor me the "ideal" insertion strategy would be inserting the same files we do currently in every situation except manual insertion of a single file. Not ideal for creating non-music playlists, but at least it means nobody gets unexpected behaviour from all the new 'legal' filetypes
17:09:08kadobanwhat about inserting a directory with no audio files in it? that seems like it could add all supported files
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17:11:04LloreanWell, if we leave that sort of thing off, maybe someone will finally put together a multiple-selections tool for the UI so you can manually insert multiple single-files quickly. :-P
17:11:53kadobanhmm, that would be kind of nice too
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17:23:39linuxstbtoffe82: Have you had any luck with Rockbox on your "v1.2" beast? Am I right in thinking that a dual-boot bootloader works, but a single-boot one is rejected?
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17:24:16toffe82linuxstb: no time yesterday
17:24:17n1sLlorean: what happens if you are litening to music while using a plugin and the next "track" is a file that is opened by a plugin?
17:24:43toffe82I already test dual boot with 1.2 on another S and it was working
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17:25:02toffe82I never try single boot on the 1.2
17:25:05n1sLambdaCalculus37: interesting
17:25:41linuxstbtoffe82: OK, thanks...
17:26:01linuxstbLambdaCalculus37: Did you ever resolve the problems you had with your beast? (If I'm remembering correctly, you couldn't recover it?)
17:27:08Lloreann1s: In my mind, it's just skipped like we do with missing tracks.
17:27:14LambdaCalculus37linuxstb: My beast has been working fine for months.
17:27:37LambdaCalculus37I'm still using the nk.bin from the hacked Gigabeat V updater, though.
17:28:10LambdaCalculus37n1s: Can you try out this button combination on your 4G nano?
17:28:41n1sLambdaCalculus37: sure, so menu+select to reset twice then back+play and the connect usb?
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17:28:53LambdaCalculus37n1s: Press and hold MENU+SELECT, let the nano reset twice, and when it resets the second time, immediately press and hold BACK+PLAY.
17:28:55n1sthen even
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17:29:11n1sLambdaCalculus37: wothout usb connecte?
17:29:20LambdaCalculus37Without USB connection for now.
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17:29:37LambdaCalculus37Then try it again with a USB connection.
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17:30:21saratogainteresting chatter on the mailing list about gcc versions
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17:38:47*Llorean wonders if different GCCs mean we should be trying different O values
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17:39:36rasherNot entirely out of the question, but frankly I doubt that much work has been put into our lowly archs
17:39:43rasherPerhaps ARM, I suppose
17:39:48n1sLlorean: some tweaking of gcc switches may be in order, yes
17:40:15LloreanWell, ARM is the one in question here.
17:40:20n1sLambdaCalculus37: ok, doesn't seem to work if i don't have usb connected
17:40:33LloreanAnd it seems odd that it's "just slower"
17:43:08LambdaCalculus37n1s: Interesting. My 2nd gen nano can enter DFU mode without being connected to USB.
17:43:19n1sLambdaCalculus37: doing it with USB connected seems to work though, dmesg reports a "USB DFU Device"
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17:43:47n1si might just have been too slow
17:44:12LambdaCalculus37n1s: Someone in #linux4nano-dev reported the VID and PID as 05ac:1255; is this correct?
17:44:25rasherLlorean: even so, ours aren't exactly top of the line ARM versions
17:44:29n1sLambdaCalculus37: yes
17:45:07Lloreanrasher: Very true, yeah.\
17:45:16LambdaCalculus37n1s: What are the VID and PID in normal mode?
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17:46:06n1sLambdaCalculus37: 05ac:1263
17:46:33LambdaCalculus37n1s: Can you put them up on the DeviceDetection wiki page?
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17:57:59kugelSo, I'd like to commit a fix, so that you go to the next track, if the remaining time is less than the skip length (instead of doing nothing)
17:58:40kugellike Alex00088 "requested" today
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17:59:16kugelis that ok?
18:00
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18:08:09linuxstbkugel: Where did Alex00088 request that? Maybe it's intentional behaviour (to prevent accidentally skipping to next track). I don't use that feature though...
18:08:55kugellinuxstb: he didn't request directly, but asked where he could change that
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18:09:11mcuelenaerethe Onda has 16kB of IRAM, how much should I allocate for plugins/codecs?
18:09:20kugellinuxstb: Also, I'd really like to use that feature if it wasn't so painful to go to the next track
18:09:34linuxstbkugel: Do you mean lee321987 in the "Getting started and compiling" forum?
18:09:39kugelhttp://www.rockbox.org/irc/log-20090224#06:24:02
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18:10:16kugelappears to be the same guy
18:11:15linuxstbYes, I would guess so. But anyway, it doesn't seem like a "bug", just behaviour you don't like. (although maybe it is...)
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18:12:23kugellinuxstb: I asked about that a few weeks ago, and some agreed upon bug with me
18:12:53kugelI'll try to grab the initial commit and/or task, if that contains specific information about this
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18:16:36kugellinuxstb: Llorean said he found that part particulary handy (so you don't need to turn "study mode" of in normal playback)
18:17:14kugelin sdoyon response, he said he sees no reason that it shouldn't do that (and he made the study mode/skip length thing)
18:20:33webguest66hello?
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18:20:53n1sLambdaCalculus37: sure
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18:23:47kugellinuxstb: ok, it's definitely intended. But he said it would be ok if it would jump ~3s before the end of the track, so that the accidental skip could be reverted
18:27:15kugelwell, one could add another setting, to allow skipping to the next song
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18:45:36kadobanResuming a stopped playlist from the menu in plugins fails depending on how the playlist was started. If i start a playlist by pressing "select" on one song, stop playing, and then resume from the plugin, it fails. If i start the playlist with Insert from the context menu and then stop playing, it resumes fine in the plugin.
18:45:51kadobanis there any obvious reason that it should work like that, or an obvious way to fix that?
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19:08:16kugelkadoban: I don't think it should work like that
19:08:26kugeland if there was an obvious fix, it was already fixed, I guess
19:08:58kadobankugel: i was wondering if it suggested anything to someone of where to look...i guess i'll try to figure out why it's doing that since nobody spoke up :(
19:10:14kugelkadoban: nobody speaking up doesn't mean anything
19:10:26kugelso don't put too much in that
19:12:19PaulJamkadoban: if you are going to look into the issue, maybe you could have a look at FS #9796 too. this is also related to resuming playback from plugins,
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19:13:05kadobanPaulJam: hmm, thanks. i hadn't seen that
19:14:09kadobanit's odd, because basically identical code seems to be run from the plugin playlist menus for resuming as is run from the root menu for resume, but they act differently...
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19:19:28kugelgevaerts: I was wondering about SERIALIZE_WRITES recently again, can't that be removed now?
19:19:57kugelI'm running without that the past few weeks, without problems at all
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19:20:03gevaertskugel: probably
19:20:53gevaertsIf we consider the sd bug as properly fixed or at least successfully worked around, it's not needed at all. If we don't, it won't solve all problems
19:21:20kugelit gives more speed
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19:21:38gevaertsdisabling it?
19:21:51kugelI know that it's a band aid after all, but (to me) the sd bugs really appear to be gone
19:22:06kugelgevaerts: yes, of course, disabling it gives more speed
19:22:18*gevaerts is happy about that
19:22:29gevaertsThe whole point of not serialising things is to make them faster :)
19:22:42kugelno, really?
19:22:44kugel:P
19:24:19gevaertsThe only question I have is should we remove the SERIALIZE_WRITES code entirely, or just disable it? If we remove it, it can't be reenabled easily should it be needed, but if we don't it will suffer from bit rot
19:26:34kugelgevaerts: well, given our tradition, that we don't want unused code and don't code for things that *possibly* happen in the future, it should be removed
19:26:48LloreanJdGordon: You were looking at fixing bookmarking up at some point, right?
19:27:12Lloreangevaerts: Probably worth removing, since the code will be just as "around" in SVN as being ifdeffed out.
19:28:18kugelYea, it's not like we could browse some revisions back for the code
19:28:27kugelcouldn't*
19:28:53JdGordonllorean: yeah
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19:30:13LloreanJdGordon: I'm not sure if this is a good idea, but it seems like one to me. In my mind, at least, Bookmarks should know the "Repeat" and "Shuffle" setting that were in use when they were made (so for example when resuming an audiobook shuffle disables and repeat turns off since that's what you used when you made the bookmark)
19:30:41*gevaerts removes SERIALIZE_WRITES
19:31:31JdGordonwhat does bookmarking do currently? I know it keps the random seed (it has to) but i dont think it actually changes the shuffle settin (and dont think it should or needs to)
19:34:19LloreanI think it absolutely should.
19:35:25LloreanHm, it seems like it might already
19:35:43kugelrasher: You might update the USB builds
19:35:48amiconngevaerts: Did you receive the usb tracer meanwhile?
19:36:17LloreanJdGordon: It already does preserve shuffle and repeat settings, somehow I thought it didn't.
19:36:27rasherkugel: Because of the removed SERIALIZE_WRITES?
19:36:34kugelyes
19:37:07kugeland because it's already 65 revisions old :P
19:37:30kugel66 even
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19:46:18JdGordonLlorean: ok, i havnt done anything on my bmark patch for ages
19:46:39Llorean'sokay. I didn't realize it already did what I felt it needed to do.
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19:57:16gevaertsamiconn: not yet. mcuelenaere sent it today. I should have it before the weekend
19:58:35gevaertsrasher: if you update it, maybe include the patch from FS #9935?
19:58:52rashergevaerts: Not a bad idea
20:00
20:00:14*rasher makes a note
20:01:11gevaertsHas anyone ever tried rockbox usb and itunes?
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20:01:28bertrikkugel, I vaguely remember using the arm-elf-gcc toolchain from gnuarm.net on windows with cygwin
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20:02:51kugelI'm always interested in building rockbox natively on windows
20:02:52 Quit lostlogic (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:03:00kugelnot so much using cygwin ;)
20:06:05 Quit mcuelenaere ()
20:06:12amiconnYou could try Interix....
20:07:12amiconnIt's not really faster than Cygwin though, and quite a bit more involved (read: messy)
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20:26:39ender`in my experience, interix was somewhat faster than cygwin, but still much slower than running linux in a vm
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20:30:20LloreanI never managed to get it to compile in Interix myself. The shell would crash on me when I tried to get things set up.
20:33:21ender`back when i used interix, i got a ton of useful stuff from http://www.interopcommunity.com/warehouse.aspx (including bash, since both shells included with interix are useless)
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20:48:47DaveWoyciesjesI was sent here to request write access to the Wiki page.
20:49:19DaveWoyciesjesI only need it to add note about Rockbox on iPod 5.5G/30GB not working with a Kensington FM transmitter.
20:51:34 Quit midijunkie ("?(???~~)?")
20:51:42evilnick_6DaveWoyciesjes: Wait around, once someone can help then they'll let you know
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20:52:21DaveWoyciesjesThanks. Or if someone else wants to add it in, I can give details...
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20:54:24BigBambiDaveWoyciesjes: OK, one mo
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20:56:56BigBambiDaveWoyciesjes: OK, promise not to spam now :)
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20:57:52DaveWoyciesjesMe? spam? Never... Got $20 on ya? ;-)
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21:00
21:06:23evilnick_6BigBambi: Can I have write access pretty please? (NickSant)
21:07:48BigBambievilnick_6: sure, one mo :)
21:08:42BigBambievilnick_6: OK
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21:13:43DaveWoyciesjesOK, added my $0.02.
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21:16:03DaveWoyciesjesWhere should I post a note that I can test fixes for my transmitter, if anyone tries...? In the iPod acc. grid, I presume? Or is there a better spot?
21:16:04evilnick_6Does anyone know if the Gigabeast charges properly from Windows when plugged into USB on a non-Administrator account?
21:16:15evilnick_6Or how to check that?
21:23:23LloreanDaveWoyciesjes: You should post a bug report for it, and watch that for patches.
21:25:07 Nick logiclost is now known as lostlogic (n=lostlogi@temporal.lostlogicx.com)
21:28:32DaveWoyciesjesK. Thanks. 'Course, I dont think they could ever get it to work completely, since my Kensington FM/RDS transmitter has built in software to display the tranmitting freqency on the Pod screen.
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21:34:42rasherI don't know, iirc, the accessory simply transmits bitmaps - there's no technical reason why rockbox couldn't handle that
21:34:59rasherDepending on how well understood the protocol is
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21:47:02DaveWoyciesjesTrue.
21:47:22DaveWoyciesjesBug submitted. Gotta run, and do actual work now. Thanks for the help.
21:47:36MTeeI made a mistake in the subject when replying to a message on the list, could this be reverted ?
21:48:04The-CompilerMTee: I guess not
21:48:06kadobanMTee: looks like it already went out
21:53:01MTeeWhat should I do then ? I don't want it to be interpreted as carelessness from me :(
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21:53:42moosMTee: anyone can make mistakes, now you know for the futur ;)
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21:56:14MTeemoos : thanks :)
21:56:23LloreanMTee: If you plan to respond to the list, you shouldn't use the digest mode anyway
21:56:38Lloreanif you don't receive the original emails, your responses will break threading in many clients.
21:56:48rasherBagder: is it possible to configure mailman to not allow posting from digest members?
21:57:37Lloreanrasher: That would be a bit much, since there's no way for someone to request an old message so that they can respond to it properly.
21:57:46LloreanIt's probably good enough to let digest members know the first time they do it.
21:58:48kugeldisable digest mode at all?
21:59:10kugelat least it's not enabled by default anymore
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21:59:41gevaertsLlorean: actually there is. Several archives have reply buttons that generate proper headers (assuming proper mail clients) or can forward you the mail so you can reply properly
22:00
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22:00:09Lloreangevaerts: Ah, if we're archived at one of those then never mind.
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22:00:38gevaertsLlorean: I don't think we are, but we could be...
22:00:52LloreanIt'd be nice if we could disable posts from digest subscribers, yes.
22:00:52*gevaerts mainly thinks of the future
22:04:16MTeeCould a note about this be added to the 'digest mode' option, in 'edit membership options' ?
22:04:52MTeeso that when someone subscribes he would set the option depending on whether he plans to respond or not.
22:05:10kugelsaratoga: what was your problem when you compiled a newer gcc?
22:05:15LloreanA note definitely should be added.
22:06:06rasherEven if we can't refuse it, a note should be added saying it's not recommended
22:06:59saratogakugel: it would blow up as soon as the make file ran
22:07:01saratogai have no idea
22:07:20saratogaalso, do we really want problems with accessories on the tracker? isn't the problem that the protocols aren't implemented?
22:07:48saratogai think the wiki makes more sense for lists of what devices work and which do not
22:08:25kugelwell, it's in svn, so bug reports are appropriate, imo
22:09:26saratogagenerally we don't take bug reports for unimplemented features
22:09:26 Quit MTee (""zzzz"")
22:10:47saratogaand since realistically, no developer is likely to have a device, I'm not sure what good the bug report is likely to do
22:11:03saratogait'll never be used by anyone, except people wanting to see if a device works
22:11:10saratogain which case a wiki page makes more sense
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22:11:43DaveWoyciesjessaratoga: Did I start this converssation?
22:12:13Lloreansaratoga: Some of the protocol is expected to work.
22:12:24saratogaLlorean: sure but we have no idea what
22:12:33LloreanSo we just don't take bug reports against the protocol period?
22:12:35saratogawell Llorean started it, sicne I've been closing bug reports on the tracker
22:12:52DaveWoyciesjesWiki page is good to see if a device works or not. But if you want an answer as to if it could work, or may be worked on, a bug submission is the way to go.
22:12:53saratogawell unless someone can provide useful information about why it doesn't work, what good is it?
22:13:11saratogawe don't even know if these devices fail due to unsupported protocols or bugs in our code
22:13:13Lloreansaratoga: Well, it gives the interested developer an easy and direct way to get in contact with someone who has affected hardware.
22:13:16rasherA developer wanting to see what works and what doesn't would probably also benefit more from a wikipage
22:13:25kugelsaratoga: I'm a little bit more successful I think, but it aborts too somewhere at binutils
22:13:39saratogakugel: you mean compiling binutils?
22:13:41DaveWoyciesjesLlorean: That's what I was about to say...
22:13:46kugelyes
22:13:59saratogakugel: I could build everything, just rockbox wouldn't make
22:14:17saratogai had to hack up binutils though due to the bug mentioned in todays email
22:14:22saratogadidn't know about that configure switch
22:14:33kugeloh
22:14:34Lloreansaratoga: A wiki page with a list of public email addresses probably just means a lot of our reporters won't leave us a way to get in touch with them easily.
22:14:49 Quit MTee (Client Quit)
22:14:52saratogaI'm not sure what the point of getting in touch with these people is
22:15:02saratogaits unlikely any of this could be debugged remotely
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22:15:11saratogai think the only benefit here is that we'd get a list of what doesn't work
22:15:18DaveWoyciesjessaratoga: to get more info about what is/isn't working, and to test a possible fix.
22:15:33saratogaI see no point in having people test fixes
22:15:41saratogawho ever has the fix can simply commit it when its done
22:16:00DaveWoyciesjesIf a developer contacts me about testing something to get Rockbox to work with my FM/RDS transmitter, I'm more than happy to help.
22:16:08saratogasure but no one is going to do that
22:16:30Lloreansaratoga: I disagree
22:16:39kugelsaratoga: I guess I need to install binutils for my system before compiling it for arm?
22:16:51LloreanLook at the original Protocol patch to see a lot of feedback from people regarding whether the differing baud rates worked, etc.
22:17:03kugelI mean a newer version, I'm still on the intrepid packages(which is 2.18 I think)
22:17:04saratogakugel: i just followed the instructions in the wiki for building arm-elf-gcc manually
22:17:17saratogaand downloaded binutils and gcc
22:17:19DaveWoyciesjessaratoga: Why not? If I was a developer, and had time/inclination to fix the software, but not the hardware, I would contact people who do have the hardware.
22:17:47saratogaDaveWoyciesjes: what exactly are you going to do if someone contacts you? how do you plan to help?
22:19:22saratogakind of hard to reverse engineer hardware remotely
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22:19:38DaveWoyciesjessaratoga: How I see it: Developer see my bug, digs into the code, compiles file(s), sends file to me to test with my setup. I send results.
22:19:53Lloreansaratoga: Well there could be benefit in seeing how far we get with it before we fail, and dumping what we get from it in regard to unsupported commands (in this case, probably the bitmap stuff)
22:20:08LloreanSome sort of test plugin
22:20:24DaveWoyciesjessaratoga: Yes, it's not easy, but the knowledge gained can be used for other parts...
22:20:37saratogarealistcally I don't think it could
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22:20:59DaveWoyciesjessaratoga: Yes, I'm not a programmer, but am good with computers in general, and know how to follow directions.
22:21:14Lloreansaratoga: In this case it's just an FM transmitter, odds are fairly good it's just the bitmap commands that we don't cover yet. If that's the case, it's code I *think* that's known about, we just don't handle it yet.
22:21:20linuxstbI agree a ist of willing testers would be useful - there are literally thouands of different ipod accessories, no-one can own them all...
22:21:31gevaertsDaveWoyciesjes: I have a hard time imagining how a developer can find a bug that only happens with your setup, especially if this "bug" is a caused by incomplete understanding of the protocol
22:21:36rasherThat could happen in the wiki as well though
22:21:44Lloreanlinuxstb: The question is more "do we accept bug reports against IAP or ask them just to put 'doesn't work' in the table?"
22:21:52rasher"accessory | works/doesn't work | List of owners"
22:22:24rasherLlorean: "Put doesn't work - and your wikiname - in the table"?
22:22:28linuxstbI can't see the harm in having a list of users willing to test things...
22:22:42DaveWoyciesjesgevaerts: Yes, if it is only in my setup. BUt I suspect that anyone with the same Xmit has the same issue.
22:22:50LloreanI just don't think the wiki is the best place for this, over all.
22:23:04LloreanI don't think we need one bug report for every device.
22:23:08gevaertsDaveWoyciesjes: yes, but this hypothetical developer doesn't
22:23:08rasherlinuxstb: But why have that list in Flyspray - you'd have a hundred "Accessory X doesn't work" reports
22:23:23DaveWoyciesjesLlorean: THe Wiki is good for what it has now. Acc name, and status of what works/doesn't work.
22:23:28LloreanBut possibly a single bug report for "Incomplete IAP" to which people can add their comments after adding to the wiki table, so that people can 'subscribe' to updates...
22:23:30linuxstbrasher: I assumed it would be a wiki page... I haven't read the full backlog.
22:23:47saratogalinuxstb: no the argument was for filespray tasks for each device
22:23:53DaveWoyciesjesgevaerts: THen he can contact me for more info.
22:24:15rasherLlorean: What's the issue with having it in the wiki?
22:24:17Lloreanrasher: The problem with the wiki is that it's one-way for most people. Flyspray mails out updates for you.
22:24:19linuxstbsaratoga: Then I think that's just pointless, unless someone is actively working on one, and they post a patch to start the task.
22:24:28saratogaexactly
22:24:39rasherLlorean: Sure, once you start working on something, open a flyspray task with a patch and tell people to test it and report back
22:24:42Lloreansaratoga: The argument was for A FLYSPRAY TASK
22:24:45gevaertsDaveWoyciesjes: what sort of info? This isn't the sort of thing you can easily work on by email...
22:24:57*linuxstb guesses he should probably read the backlog...
22:25:00Lloreanrasher: How do you get word out to people with the broken accessory that they need to test it?
22:25:12rasherContact them...
22:25:19LloreanI think a single flyspray task that these people can subscribe two, and a later patch can be put on, would be easiest.
22:25:19saratogaor don't contact them
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22:25:39DaveWoyciesjesgevaerts: Depends on the accessory, and the behavior in question.
22:25:42LloreanNot one for every device, but just one.
22:25:51rasherThat makes more sense, I guess.
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22:26:43LloreanThey put their devices not working in the table, they add a comment to the Flyspray task with the non-working device or simply click "Watch" and when someone finds out more about IAP they post a patch to that task, everyone with unworking devices immediately gets an email, hopefully some of them try it and then update the wiki page.
22:26:54LloreanIt greatly increases the odds.
22:26:55DaveWoyciesjesIn my particular case, one Flyspray task for iPod accessories that connect via dock connector?
22:26:58saratogai don't care if its one task or one wiki page, either way i think i should continue to close the tasks people open about random device x
22:27:09rasherLlorean: This is the first time you mention it should be *one* task
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22:27:28Lloreanrasher: Nobody asked me how many it should be, they just started with "It doesn't belong on flyspray!"
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22:28:07rasherLlorean: Because you told DaveWoyciesjes to just open a task for his non-working accessory, and because a bunch of tasks have been closed already
22:28:15rasherIt wasn't clear at all that you meant some sort of meta-bug
22:28:19rasherAnd that's not what DaveWoyciesjes filed.
22:28:35rasherI understand this idea, and support it.
22:29:34DaveWoyciesjesrasher: If I filed incorrectly, I apologize. I just want to make the developers aware that it doesn't work, and that I am willing to help in getting it work.
22:29:56saratogaDaveWoyciesjes: its not your fault we haven't agreed on this yet
22:29:58rasherNo worries, I blame Llorean :)
22:30:19LloreanIt's partially my fault, yeah.
22:30:20DaveWoyciesjesThe only thing that is stopping me from using Rockbox is the fact that it doesn't work in my truck...
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22:30:36saratogaDaveWoyciesjes: well get to work or give up
22:30:39linuxstbYou could just use a generic fm transmitter...
22:30:50DaveWoyciesjessaratoga: Understand. I still don't like irritating people for no reason.
22:31:04LloreanI definitely didn't intend for a whole bunch of tasks in the tracker, but I think the wiki-page is more or less just "file and forget", nobody's going to make the effort to get in contact with everyone on it to find out if IAP improvements help their individual case.
22:31:41DaveWoyciesjessaratoga: If I knew where to start, I would get working on it. :) But alas, I'm not a software programmer, just a support tech. :)
22:32:05evilnick_6Perhaps form a sub-group of the Wiki users with members that have issues with the IAP? Send an update and request a re-test when there has been progress?
22:32:06LloreanDaveWoyciesjes: Well, it could be months or years before someone fixes your problem. Learning to program in your spare time can take less than that. :-P
22:32:28rasherevilnick_6: that seems far more trouble than it's worth
22:32:34saratogaok i'll open a task now for it
22:32:40DaveWoyciesjeslinuxstb: Yes, a generic transmitter would work, but the one I have has better sound quality because it takes the line-level output from the iPod.
22:32:46Lloreanrasher: At the time I suggested he post to the tracker I was thinking "The wiki page isn't good enough" not "how do we handle it well in the tracker." =/
22:33:01LloreanSorry
22:33:08DaveWoyciesjesevilnick: interesting...
22:33:23DaveWoyciesjesLlorean: Too true...
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22:33:53rasherLlorean: something good came of it!
22:34:00rasherShould I go file a meta-bug?
22:34:08LloreanI think saratoga's doing that.
22:34:22rasherAh, missed that
22:34:36rasherShould probably be posted on the forum as well in some way
22:34:53saratogawhat needs to be in a bug report?
22:35:00saratogadevice name, ipod version, rockbox version?
22:35:11BigBambiblood type
22:35:30rasherType of device, what works (if anything), what doesn't work
22:35:49DaveWoyciesjesInclude any error messages or symptoms.
22:36:11BigBambisorry, wrong channel :/
22:36:50saratogaFS #9951 - Ipod Accessory bug reports
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22:37:20DaveWoyciesjesLooking in tracker, there is a field where an item can depend on another. Oh, wait, mine would depend on the metabug saratoga's filing, right?
22:37:30saratogayours is closed
22:37:31BigBambiYours should be shut
22:37:38BigBambiAnd you add yours to be new one
22:37:52rashersaratoga: it should probably also have links to the wiki, and a statement for potential developers to post in that bug
22:37:55DaveWoyciesjesK. Will do.
22:40:28saratogado we have a wiki page ?
22:41:31rasherIpodAccessories
22:41:45saratogaisn't that pre-IAP?
22:41:58DaveWoyciesjesFor iPod acc status, yeah. - http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IpodAccessories
22:42:09rasherSome are recent
22:42:15saratogajust Daves
22:42:28rasherWell it's what we have
22:42:35saratogathat page should be marked as historical
22:42:54saratogasince essentially all of those device reports are of unknown accuracy now that we have IAP
22:42:55rasherWe should probably mark all the old ones
22:42:59 Quit MethoS- (Connection timed out)
22:43:05rasherThere's a date
22:43:08DaveWoyciesjessaratoga: Should have something, though.
22:43:29rashersaratoga: What do you propose then, create an exact copy?
22:43:33DaveWoyciesjesrasher: but it's a user-supplied date. automatic date stamp would be better..
22:43:39saratogaor another table for post-IAP builds
22:43:46evilnick_6Sort by date and file the pre-IAP patch in a new table clearly marked historical
22:44:00saratogaand a note saying pre-2009 stuff is possibly wrong
22:44:31rasherRegardless, that's the page you should link to
22:44:50saratogaIf someone updates it i'll add a link
22:45:16rasherGosh, why wait?
22:45:28rasherIt's still a table full of valid and timestamped data
22:45:29saratogaactaully my posts can be edited by anyone, so feel free to update it and then post the link yourself
22:45:47DaveWoyciesjessaratoga: I think a link to it form the bug, with a clear disclaimer, would be good.
22:45:54saratogai don't see much point in saying heres a page of wrong data
22:46:02rasherIT'S NOT WRONG
22:46:02saratogapeople will just insert entries in the middle like dave did
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22:46:36DaveWoyciesjesCourse, is there an easier way to edit it, other than the direct manipulation of text?
22:47:09DaveWoyciesjesI didn't easily find any instructions to add to the page...
22:47:35 Quit {phoenix} (Remote closed the connection)
22:48:01DaveWoyciesjesMaybe have us users send reports to a mailbox, from there a couple of people could update the wiki page?
22:48:26 Quit saratoga ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
22:48:41evilnick_6DaveWoyciesjes: There's more chance of something happening if you offer to co-ordinate things, rather than suggesting to volunteers how they spend their time
22:49:01 Quit perrikwp ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
22:49:23DaveWoyciesjesI can help, let me know how.
22:50:23DaveWoyciesjesIf my idea (one or two people getting reports to update the wiki) is good, say so. If you need me to do somethig for it, just ask. :)
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22:53:39evilnick_6DaveWoyciesjes: Why don't you volunteer to be the co-ordinator? That way the limited time of the other guys wouldn't be impacted, you'd have more chance (probably) of having it done quicker and you'd also get the warm, fuzzy feeling of having directly helped. It's win-win-win!
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22:57:36DaveWoyciesjesFor updating the iPod accesory Wiki? Okay, but I gotta run now. I'll be back later. Send an email if needed...
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23:00
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23:01:34Lloreangevaerts: Issues?
23:01:52rasherI think someone should look into new bootloaders for the soon-to-be usb-enabled targets, so we don't boot into the OF when USB is inserted
23:01:54gevaertsBefore we can enable USB on PP5022 by default, I think we need to think about several things
23:02:24gevaerts(a) I think FS #9935 needs to be fixed first
23:02:42Lloreanrasher: Fortunately, they're all pretty easy to deal with re: bootloaders
23:03:00gevaerts(b) we need to know how itunes reacts to rockbox UMS, and if it doesn't like it we need to decide how to deal with it
23:03:46LloreaniTunes shouldn't even think we're an iPod, should it?
23:03:47gevaerts(c) I still want to do tracer tests first. That should be possible on friday night at the latest
23:04:06rasherLlorean: we use the same vid/pid don't we?
23:04:12LloreanOr do we duplicate vid/pid?
23:04:19gevaertsLlorean: depends. If it uses usb ids it could get very confused
23:04:25rasherI expect it to do more checks, but you know now
23:04:50LloreanIt does those custom SCSI inquiries but I don't know if that's part of the test to see if it's an iPod, or if that's just for setting the clock and what not.
23:04:53rasherIt could also do something stupid such as tell the user his ipod is broken and then do a full restore
23:04:58 Quit gregzx ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.6/2009011913]")
23:05:03gevaertsI'm not saying that itunes is a blocker, but how exactly will we deal with people who still use itunes?
23:05:30krazykit"boot into the OF"?
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23:05:48Lloreanthere's also that one report that iPods aren't properly charging in Rockbox right now.
23:06:08LloreanMy Nano seems to charge, but this one came from dreamlayers I think, so it's one worth reading. I think he even attached another patch.
23:06:34 Quit jaykay (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:07:12gevaertskrazykit: that works for me :)
23:07:41rasherStill, iTunes might do something we need to avoid
23:07:48LloreanBut yeah, knowing if it's gonna tell them to reformat is important.
23:08:14advcomp2019Llorean, my sansa e280 gets to 96% when trying to charge but i am not sure what is the issue there tho
23:11:26gevaertsSo we need someone with itunes...
23:11:54*krazykit quietly raises his hand and has a nano and itunes
23:12:45krazykiti can take a look at it in a couple hours
23:12:55gevaertsgreat!
23:12:59kugellol, they indeed released a broken binutils
23:13:05krazykiti'll have to install rockbox first ;)
23:13:11kugelhttp://www.mail-archive.com/bug-binutils@gnu.org/msg06475.html
23:13:38Bagderkugel: projects releasing with bugs is not that unheard of
23:14:04rasherThe patch looks like a botched copy/paste job or last-minute changes
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23:14:29Bagderindeed
23:15:17Bagderor rather it didn't build with a particular gcc version
23:15:50kugelso, binutils compiled now
23:15:59kugelbut not gcc :(
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23:27:13amiconngevaerts: I get rather interesting results from a speed comparison of pre-r20098 vs. post-r20098
23:27:43amiconnRead speed is essentially unchanged (even a bit slower now), write speed is noticeably higher
23:28:22gevaertsread speed shouldn't be affected
23:28:29amiconnah
23:29:03amiconnI get 5.8MB/s read (raw device) for internal and external. Got 6.0MB/s with pre-r20098 and external though
23:29:14midgeygevaerts: just tested my 4G with the usb stack
23:29:46amiconnWrite speed increased from 2.2MB/s to 2.4MB/s internal, and 2.9MB/s to 3.5MB/s for my microsdhc 8GB
23:30:09amiconnThis was measured using file writing, unlike read speed measurement
23:30:18midgeyI have a 4G with OF version 3.0.2, Macbook 4,1 running OS X 10.5.6 and iTunes 8.0.2
23:30:35gevaertsamiconn: write speed should higher. It basically uses a double-buffering system so it can write one buffer to flash while receiving the next one over USB
23:30:49gevaertsmidgey: great! Always nice to get results
23:31:00midgeyplugging in the ipod with the Rockbox stack enabled, it is successfully "recognized" as an iPod by the OS
23:31:18midgeythat is, it is recognized as and iPod and gets a custom icon
23:32:07midgeyadditionally, my last.fm app detected it as an iPod (didn't try updating track submissions or anything)
23:32:28midgeyiTunes 8.0.2 gives no indication that an iPod is connected
23:32:37*amiconn notices that the macro was called serialize_*WRITES*
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23:34:19gevaertsmidgey: that sounds good. So everything works, and itunes doesn't try to break things
23:35:20midgeyseems that way
23:35:54gevaertsMaybe we want a setting on ipods for itunes users to keep the old way, but I'd prefer not to do that
23:35:55midgeySongbird 1.0 doesn't seem to do anything either, but I've never tried their device support
23:35:58LloreanBut you can't sync within iTunes?
23:36:19Lloreangevaerts: Nah, no setting.
23:36:29midgeywell, I put the music on this iPod using foobar
23:36:43LloreanDual boot is still available, and maybe we can convince some people to send more angry emails to Apple asking them to support UMS devices.
23:36:51midgeysince it support a custom file structure
23:37:26midgeysomeone who is using iTunes to actually sync is probably needed to see if their iPod is detected
23:39:06gevaertsprobably. I guess we also need both mac and windows itunes users
23:39:24 Quit t0mas ("end of day.. bed time :-)")
23:39:37rasherFor the record: a current (r20098) bootloader with USE_ROCKBOX_USB defined works on my Sansa e280. Booting with/without sd card, booting with/without USB, booting with/without |<< pressed (to boot OF), booting with/without rockbox.mi4 present. I think I've tried most useful combinations of these.
23:39:44Lloreanmidgey: No matter what your file structure, the iPod should still show up in iTunes though
23:39:51krazykitfor syncing, i can test that. i think the nano at home is hooked into itunes
23:40:21rasherLlorean: Why? If iTunes decides "that doesn't quite look like an iPod", it might well just ignore it completely?
23:40:25midgeyLlorean: the iTunesDB is hacked, later versions of iTunes don't like it, but it does show up in the OF
23:42:47amiconnHmm. Our drivers sure need improvement
23:43:33kugelrasher: I know :)
23:43:48kugelI mean the bootloader
23:44:18kugelit's apparently prepared for USB, the boot of if USB part is #ifndef'd
23:44:38rasherAh.. Yes. I really think releasing with USB enabled for these targets without also releasing a bootloader that doesn't boot to OF would be really silly.
23:44:47amiconniPod Mini G2, R/W speed: Rockbox USB 3.2/2.7MB/s, Diskmode 15.0/4.2MB/s
23:44:58amiconn(this is with 32GB CF)
23:45:01gevaertshm
23:46:00kugelamiconn: btw, the patch applies without problems
23:46:06kugelthe gcc one, that is
23:46:46*amiconn guesses ATA DMA is the key
23:46:48rockoFOR REAL
23:46:53rockoRESPECT
23:50:12gevaertsamiconn: that's a big difference. I've noticed that my CF mini is a lot slower than my c250, but I didn't compare with the OF
23:50:34amiconnJust put it into diskmode and compare
23:51:02amiconnI also compared diskmode and OF - they have identical USB transfer speed
23:51:12amiconn(unlike on Nano and Video)
23:52:17Lloreanrasher: Well, iTunes traditionally just rebuilds bad filesystems.
23:52:24LloreanRebuilds missing files, etc.
23:52:56rasherLlorean: But if it decided that it's not an iPod at all, wouldn't it just ignore it?
23:53:19rasherSame as it ignore other MSC devices
23:54:54linuxstbBut doesn't Rockbox use the original USB IDs?
23:55:17rasherSure, but it could base that decision on other facts. Lack of response to the SCSI stuff being an obvoius one
23:56:44midgeyEnabling "Start iTunes when this iPod connects" made no difference. iTunes didn't open up at all
23:56:55linuxstbYes, I'm sure it will use the scsi identify thing - that returns exactly what ipod it is, what firmware it's running, what audio codecs it supports, etc... (could be fun to hack...)
23:57:09rasherThat seems ideal, for us
23:57:31rasherAs long as we don't want to try pretending to work like an iPod
23:58:28midgeyheh, I'd like to see an iriver sync up in iTunes :P
23:58:29linuxstbI can imagine any Rockbox user still using itunes would want that though.
23:58:47linuxstbAnd yes, if we implement it for ipods...

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