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#rockbox log for 2009-02-25

00:00:53linuxstbI wouldn't imagine it's that hard - that scsi command is well documented here - http://www.ipodlinux.org/wiki/Device_Information
00:01:43linuxstbThere are possibly other commands, but we can simply log the requests in Rockbox, and see what a real ipod says in return.
00:02:04Bagderthat'd be a fun hack!
00:02:18rasherYeah, it seems like a fairly straight-forward project (on the surface, anyway)
00:02:29 Join LambdaCalculus37 [0] (n=rmenes@rockbox/staff/LambdaCalculus37)
00:02:31amiconniriver, m:robe100, beast, sansa...
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00:05:02 Quit mirak (Remote closed the connection)
00:05:27kugelyea, I desperately need obfuscated filenames
00:06:08midgeythink of it as a new type of shuffle mode
00:06:39rasherkugel: Obviously not everyone would want it. I wouldn't, but I still think it'd be a very neat addition
00:06:42linuxstbkugel: It's one of those "because we can" things...
00:07:05kugelah I see, of course it would be nice :)
00:07:24kadobanif you can detect that you're talking to iTunes, maybe there'd be a way to automatically map those obfuscated filenames into something more real, at least on non-real-ipods?
00:07:25kugelI jsut wanted to express that I'm probably not going to use it
00:07:42kadoban(ex., based on metadata)
00:07:57 Quit bluebrother (Nick collision from services.)
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00:08:30rasherkugel: I'm sure most current users wouldn't
00:09:46rasherIt'd be great press!
00:10:39linuxstbI think there's at least a "sync date/time" scsi command as well.
00:11:39linuxstbkadoban: No, I don't think the communication works at that level - it's just UMS with a few extra scsi commands on top.
00:11:47amiconnThere must be one, even for firewire connections
00:12:33*kugel compiles rockbox with gcc-4.3.2
00:13:03amiconnIt's used to set the clock of G1/G2 ipods (which have no way of timekeeping when reset - they can only use the "rtc" built into the PP5002)
00:13:05kugellooks good so far, a couple of "/home/kugel/rbdev/rockbox-dev/apps/debug_menu.c:137: warning: initialized field overwritten" warnings though
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00:20:53kugeldamn, I get the undefined instruction as well
00:22:48kugeluh, the map doesn't reall show me where it is
00:23:37kugelwell, the undefinied instruction seems to be in the middle of nowhere, after the stack
00:24:35rasherWhat's the procedure for getting new bootloaders put out? Compile some and put them on Flyspray and tell people to test?
00:24:59rasherFor PP devices, that is.
00:25:25linuxstbrasher: I think that's what happened last time.
00:26:06rasherI guess we'll have to wait until USB has been completely enabled (so as to not build from modified sources)
00:26:50LambdaCalculus37Good idea.
00:26:55kugelthis makes no sense..
00:27:08kugelthe undefined instruction, I mean
00:29:07kugelthere's nothing in 0x4000EE6C
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00:31:06amrHey guys. I was trying to add my log scrobbler (http://code.google.com/p/glogscrobbler/) to the LastFMLog wiki page (http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/LastFMLog) and it said that i needed to ask you for write permission.
00:31:20rasheramr: What's your wikiname?
00:31:40amramrhassan
00:32:48amrbtw. the edit page does not mention anything about needing a write permission when i click "Edit" on firefox. It just goes to a blank page after i have signed up. When i loaded the page in Midori that's when i found the error page.
00:33:43***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:33:47rasherForgive me for asking, but is Amr your first name, and Hassan your lastname?
00:33:58amryes, Amr Hassan
00:34:22rasheramr: Done, promise not to spam
00:34:38amrcross my heart
00:35:42*rasher points Bagder 5 lines back in the log
00:36:44*Bagder just blinks with an empty look in his eyes, instead taking off to bed
00:37:04amiconnkugel: That address is within codec IRAM
00:37:20rasherBagder: I guess that's really Zagor territory?
00:37:21 Part amr ("Leaving")
00:37:27Bagderit is, yes
00:37:50kugelamiconn: I figured that it's in iram, but the iram is only until 0x4000c000 (or am I wrong?), that's at least what the .map tells
00:38:00amiconn*codec* iram
00:38:05 Quit gregzx ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.6/2009011913]")
00:38:35amiconnThat goes from 0x4000c000 to either 0x40018000 (PP5002,PP5020) or 0x40020000 (PP5022 & friends)
00:39:32kugelah I see
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00:42:41kugelamiconn: it's at the very beginnning of mpa.o
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00:45:48casainhohello :-)
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00:46:14kugelmad_synth_thread!
00:46:24casainhocan someone help me on put working a TLV320 audio codec IC? I don't understand the clock frequency signals
00:46:56casainhoI would like to know what frequency should I use on I2S
00:47:53casainhoand I would like to know if Rockbox sends data every 44.100HZ ?
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00:51:36kugelpretty broken on the fuze too. |<< button hardly works
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00:55:16kugelwithout mp3 on cop, it works
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01:00
01:02:00kugelgr
01:02:11kugelgrml, binsize is a good deal higher too
01:02:58kugel5k..
01:03:44*LambdaCalculus37 builds a beast bootloader and prepares to build beastpatcher in OS X
01:07:31LambdaCalculus37And I just found out that I didn't have libmtp installed. :P
01:10:08casainhocan someone tell me if pcm_play_dma_start() is called at Frequency Sample, like 44.100HZ?
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02:54:37ziorcasHey, thinking of formating my ipod and installing rockbox, quick question though, my car stereo is able to control my ipod remotely, is it likely to be unable to do this with rockbox? Will my ipod work like a usb thumbdrive instead with rockbox installed as far as the car stereo is concerned?
02:57:16kadobanziorcas: it may or may not be able to. there is some support in rockbox for the ipod accessory protocol, but not all of them work.
02:57:49LambdaCalculus37It's basically "your mileage may vary" at this time.
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02:58:16kadobanziorcas: here's a page with some information, not sure if any of it is specifically helpful to you:http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IpodAccessories
02:58:59kadobanoh, looks like almost all of the information is obsolete...so it probably isn't useful at all. my bad
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02:59:13rasherziorcas: Do report your findings when you try though!
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03:00:54ziorcasok i will try today
03:01:20ziorcasit is with a clarion head unit
03:01:28ziorcasreport back here?
03:01:48rasherIn the wiki and FlySpray preferably, but here is better than nothing
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05:25:43K3T4i want to play flac files on my ipod and rockbox seems like the best possible solution for this. if i install rockbox to my ipod and change with the bootloader will it ever get to a point that i cannot use my ipod the way it originally functioned? There is a lot of music on my ipod and i dont want to resync my ipod due to a software failure
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05:30:18cool_walking_Rockbox can be uninstalled (see the manual for instructions), and there is zero risk of the installation permanently breaking your iPod.
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05:30:27cool_walking_gah
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07:43:59JdGordonwhy do so many people want to delete te currently playing track?!
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07:55:57cool_walking_JdGordon: Not me personally, but I expect they're listening to a newly-acquired album and deleting if they don't like it.
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07:57:58DhraakellianI just glanced at the svn section on the front page
07:58:08Dhraakelliandid I read that correctly? the SD bug is gone?
08:00
08:00:48midgeywe think so, various users have copied gigabytes of data with no corruption
08:02:03Dhraakellianokay, then
08:02:10DhraakellianI am *so* updating my e200
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08:03:06Dhraakellianthe latch on the microSD slot is broken, and I had to hot-glue/tape the 8GB card in, so a way to actually transfer stuff to/from it without corruption would be awesome
08:03:37DhraakellianI now have one less reason to go spend $80 on a new Sansa Fuze
08:03:46*Dhraakellian probably owes someone a beer now
08:04:57midgeyi think it's two beers. one for Martin and one for Toni
08:05:07midgeytake a look at FS #8663
08:05:27Dhraakellianhey, hey, two beers is still less than an $80 DAP
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08:05:53Dhraakellian(this is, of course, assuming that I ever run in to them somewhere, probably not a dark alleyway)
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08:06:24liiwiDhraakellian: interesting, the latch on mine is also broken. got piece of duct-tape holding the card in :)
08:06:35midgeyIndeed, and with any luck, the USB stack will be enabled for PP5022/PP5024 players in the near future
08:07:08Dhraakellianliiwi: hot glue to hold the card in, electricians tape to keep the glue from chipping off (and to match the black color of the e200)
08:07:31Dhraakellianmidgey: so it still requires manually enabling USB and compiling for oneself?
08:07:39liiwiDhraakellian: got silicone cover on the whole thing, tape does not show under it.
08:08:02Dhraakellianthe problem I had with tape was that it would slowly stretch or slide
08:08:11Dhraakellianand before too long, the card wasn't in far enough
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08:08:18midgeyfor now at least. It's a pretty easy thing to enable and I think soap might have some test builds floating around somewhere....
08:08:29Dhraakellianmidgey: I've done it before
08:08:43midgeythen enjoy :P
08:09:05Dhraakellianmidgey: for tiny, inconsequential stuff like album art, where I could easily see if a file was corrupted and retransfer it
08:10:05Dhraakellianhmm... I still have a checkout from a while back, i think
08:10:08midgeyWell, it looks like corruption is gone, and with another recent change so are the bus resets on devices such as the e200
08:10:19Dhraakellianbus resets?
08:11:41Dhraakellianhuh... or it might just be from a tarball
08:12:24midgeysomething wasn't quite right with the hardware initialization and the usb device would throw an error
08:12:42midgeythe device would reset and transfers would (normally) continue
08:12:59Dhraakellianah, yes, I think it was from a rockbox.7z
08:13:16midgeyon some setups, the players could never communicate with the host OS
08:13:33midgeyBuschel: you're our iPod 5G man, right?
08:16:43Dhraakellianhuh. I apparently already have a build with the fixes included
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08:16:49Dhraakellianr20006
08:17:01Dhraakellianr20026, rather
08:17:40Buschelmidgey: I am one of them :) But I am not the USB man.
08:17:55midgeyit's not a USB problem ;)
08:18:48midgeyI've got a 5g that refuses to turn on, even after being left plugged in for hours
08:19:12midgeyI replaced the battery and no results
08:19:23midgeyis there anything else it could be other than a bad logic board?
08:22:05Buschelhmm, I have heard (but never experiences myself) of iPods that needed to be connected for >1 day. But if you have already exchanged the battery pack...
08:22:40Buscheland of course you did several resets (Menu + Ok)
08:22:48midgeyyes
08:23:12midgeyi actually found the ipod so I have no idea what abuse it's gone through
08:23:16JdGordonalso flicked the hold switch?
08:23:32Buschelgood point
08:23:43midgeyprevious owner ripped the ribbon cable attaching the hold switch and headphone jack
08:23:47JdGordoni have a 60gb zif disk available if its the hard disk...
08:24:04midgeynope, disk is good i already checked that in another player
08:26:16midgeyif the hold switch was engaged before the ribbon cable was severed, would that state be preserved?
08:26:30JdGordoni doubt it
08:26:41JdGordoneven if it was, it should still turn on and say hold switch on
08:26:44JdGordon.... i tinhk
08:26:59JdGordontake te batt out and connect it to usb
08:27:34Buschelamiconn: about ATA DMA (regarding your suggestion that this might be the key for faster USB transfers): did you take a look at FS #9708?
08:29:14cool_walking_I just tried turning my 5G on with the hold switch engaged - it didn't do anything at all. No "hold switch on" message. I know the e200 does give a message.
08:29:42midgeyJdGordon: any idea on what behavior I should expect?
08:29:58JdGordonit should turn on, and probably try booting into the of for usb
08:31:20cool_walking_oh, when turning it on via plugging it in, yeah it goes to the OF.
08:31:31midgeyno sign of life :(. only the hdd and lcd are plugged into the logic board right now
08:31:55midgeythis one never had Rockbox (saw no signs when I checked the hdd)
08:32:00JdGordonits fucked
08:32:05JdGordonwater damage maybe?
08:32:06midgey\o/
08:32:10Buschelgevaerts: one thing I'd like to mention before enabling USB for PP5022/24 targets is that we should perform some measurements of the power consumption after USB disconnect on these targets. In the past (and several revisions/months back) the power consumption was much higher after USB (charging only) disconnect than compared to a clean restart.
08:32:13JdGordonwhere'd ou find it?
08:32:18midgeyyeah possibly
08:32:33midgeyjunk pile in our office
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08:32:41Buschelgevaerts: we would be in danger of losing lots of runtime because the users are not forced to restart
08:32:44JdGordonprobably was tosssed coz its dead?
08:32:48amiconnmidgey: Did you already disconnect the battery for a while?
08:33:14midgeynot that i can recall, i can leave it unplugged over night
08:33:37amiconnIf you have it open, disconnect the battery for a few minutes, reconnect it, then charge the ipod
08:33:52***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
08:34:36midgeyyeah, it's in pieces right now. i can reconnect the battery in a few minutes (like 15?)
08:34:38amiconnI once had the effect that the ipod (mini G2 in this case, but I think the involved circuitry is very similar, if not identical) wouldn't charge at all, no matter how often I tried to reset it
08:35:26amiconnIt seems like some chip (maybe the PCF50606) occasionally gets into a state where only a "zero-voltage reset" will help
08:35:45midgeyseems odd but worth a shot
08:36:02midgeyhas anyone taken a look at the IAP patch on the tracker?
08:36:50amiconnI left mine in the drawer for a few weeks, which drained the battery down to the hardware shutoff threshold, which also solved the problem. But disconnecting the battery is the faster method
08:37:22JdGordonwouldnt it be faster to short the battery with a resistor of some sort?
08:37:35amiconnOuch. Never short a LiIon battery!
08:38:15midgeymuch faster just to set them on fire :)
08:38:46*JdGordon takes back his suggestion
08:39:27Dhraakellianhmm... I think that last time I compiled rockbox must've been on a different distro
08:39:30amiconnUsing a resistor isn't real shorting - it would drain the battery. But since you need to open the ipod anyway for this, you can as well disconnect the battery for a while (say 5 minutes)
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08:41:51Dhraakellianhmm... /usr/include/linux/errno.h:4:23: error: asm/errno.h: No such file or directory
08:42:37Dhraakellianwere it not 2:42 AM right now, I'd look into that, but it *is* 2:42, so I'm just going to wait
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09:31:46JdGordonhow does dirplay work if dirfiilter is set to playlists?
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11:24:00kPb_incan i install rockbox on 3rd gen ipod nano??
11:24:25LloreanNo, that's why it's not in the list of players Rockbox runs on.
11:24:49kPb_inok
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11:47:17rasherHrm.. Seems JdGordon missed my point in FS #9796
11:48:38rasherWhich was that, why does playlist_resume depend on the dirfilter at all? Using the dirbrowser in that way seems rather weird
11:49:02LloreanThe filter should only ever affect what you see, not the way anything actually works, right?
11:49:31rasherThat's what I'd think, yes
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12:01:13rasherIt seems like two bits of code that should never interact, really
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12:02:22*rasher shrugs
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12:05:53*gevaerts wonders what the low-level error rate for PP5020 USB will turn out to be
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12:30:14billeniumHmm, ever time i rebuild the database (nano) it jut adds ANOTHER copy of the song...
12:30:21billeniumNow i have 5 copies of each song... How do i stop that?
12:32:07LloreanStop updating, figure out what the bug is, fix the bug, reinitialize?
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12:39:02*linuxstb starts downloading the Android git repository
12:39:20linuxstbOops, wrong channel...
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13:47:55avisis the microsdhc support on the e270 in addition to the internal storage ? or a substitute for it ?
13:48:16kadobanavis: in addition
13:48:24avisthank you
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14:06:34Casainhohello :-) −− does anyone can help me and say in what frequency value "void pcm_play_dma_start(const void *addr, size_t size)" is called? can it be at frequency sample. like 44100HZ?
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14:08:31linuxstbI don't think you should care what the samplerate is in that function - I believe you configure that in different functions.
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14:10:03Casainholinuxstb: I am trying to understand how audio DAC works, and how Rockbox supplies audio data to DAC IC
14:10:38Casainholinuxstb: Rockbox supplies audio data at a periodic frequency, right?
14:14:58linuxstbI'm not sure what you mean, but I think it will depend on your hardware. For example, the PortalPlayer devices have a small FIFO that Rockbox writes audio data into. The code in the FIQ handler just needs to keep writing to that FIFO as quickly as it can, to stop it becoming empty.
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14:17:03Casainhowell, I know that my DAC IC don't have any fifo... - my DAC is theTLV320, and I don't know if audio data should be write to it at a periodic frequency or not
14:18:09Casainhoso, on Portal Player, the FIQ handler reads the data from FIFO and sends to the DAC IC?
14:18:45LloreanDoesn't the X5 use the TLV320?
14:19:12*Llorean thought something did, at least, the name sounds familiar.
14:19:37linuxstbCasainho: No, it _writes_ the data to the FIFO. The I2S controller (I think) reads from the FIFO and sends to the DAC at the correct rate.
14:20:00linuxstb(it == the FIQ handler)
14:22:49Casainholinuxstb: ah, so the "pcm_play_dma_start()" should be called to fill a FIFO and after some code should read from the FIFO and send it at a periodic rate to DAC IC by I2S? (my ARM9 have I2S)
14:23:16CasainhoLlorean: X5 is what? ARM target?
14:23:54linuxstbCasainho: No, not _code_, hardware. But that's just how the PP driver works (although there is a patch to change that to use DMA).
14:24:43LloreanCasainho: No, the iAudio X5.
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14:25:27LloreanBut there exists a driver for the TLV320 for Rockbox already
14:25:36Casainholinuxstb: on my ARM9, I have I2S and DMA (but I would prefer to a start not using DMA) and my TLV320 DAC IC is connected by I2S - what do you think I should do?
14:26:09LloreanI think it's also used in the Cowon D2?
14:26:27LloreanWhich is ARM, if I recall correctly.
14:26:38CasainhoLlorean: I already saw the driver and I was trying to understand it... and for now, I have a problem, I can't get frequencies from my ARM9 to TLV320 that gives the 44100HZ, just 48000HZ and seems default Rockbox code uses 44100... :-(
14:26:44B4gderLlorean: nope
14:26:55LloreanB4gder: TCC?
14:26:59B4gderI mean the d2 doesn't use it
14:27:02LloreanOh.
14:27:43B4gderm3, m5, x5, creatives, m200v1, c100
14:27:47LloreanAaah
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14:28:33Casainhocan anyone suggest me how should I do?
14:29:18Casainhoon X5 folder, I don't see any "pcm-x5.c" file...
14:30:35B4gder../pcm-coldfire.c
14:31:58CasainhoB4gder: thanks
14:32:17linuxstbCasainho: How does your i2s controller work? e.g. does it have a fifo?
14:32:40Casainholinuxstb: no, I just write 32bits to a register and it sends...
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14:34:15Casainhoso, I should make one FIFO, right? and provide a way so that I send audio data at Frequency Sample rate, no?
14:34:23linuxstbThen I think I would just use DMA. But I'm not an expert in these low-level things.
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14:35:22Casainhoso, If I use DMA, what DMA pheripherial would do? (I don't worked with DMA before)
14:36:35B4gderDMA is usually just setup to transfer from somewhere to somewhere
14:36:50B4gderand then it tells you when its done and you set it again
14:37:51Casainhohmmmm, so, in this case, the DMA would transfer from an audio FIFO to I2S "send" address?
14:38:11B4gderor from memory to the send address
14:39:06linuxstbCasainho: The "fifo" is the Rockbox main PCM buffer (a few hundred KB of audio). Don't get confused with the hardware i2s fifo on PortalPlayer - that's just how that hardware works.
14:39:15CasainhoI don't know from where I would configure DMA to read... I don't understand the Rockbox audio drivers...
14:39:44linuxstb"from where" is the buffer passed to pcm_play_data()
14:40:14linuxstbAnd when you've finished playing that buffer, you call the "get_more()" callback to get the next buffer to play.
14:40:45linuxstbfirmware/pcm.c is the place to start reading.
14:41:09CasainhoI already read that file... thanks. I will do it again.
14:41:53linuxstbThe code in apps/ calls the functions in firmware/pcm.c, and the code in firmware/pcm.c will call the code in the target audio driver.
14:43:21Casainhoso, there is another question: DMA should read from the FIFO to send for the I2S "send" address, at a periodic rate, right? - can the DMA pheripherial usually be configured for a periodic rate?
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14:44:45linuxstbI don't know. But what's important is what your hardware can do - does the documentation talk about using DMA with I2S?
14:45:26Casainholinuxstb: I am not sure, but almost sure that there is DMA fro I2S.
14:45:50linuxstbThen I suggest reading the documentation ;)
14:45:55Casainhobecause I don't see need to use DMA if it don't do it at a periodic rate...
14:46:37Casainhosince I need to send the PCM fifo with a periodic rate...
14:54:30Casainhothere is no such thing on DMA for a periodic rate transfer... so, I don't know why should I use DMA for sending the data from audio fifo to dac ic by I2S
14:55:13linuxstbIt won't be periodic, it will write to the i2s register whenever the i2s controller says that the previous transmit is complete (or the data was moved to the internal buffer).
14:55:36linuxstbReading your datasheet, the DMA can be used with the SSC, so this will work.
14:56:07Casainhoso, I don't need to send for the TLV320 at a periodic rate?
14:56:27CasainhoI miss a lot of information about audio dac ICs... - my first time now
14:56:31linuxstbYou have a "22 channel peripheral dma controller"...
14:57:11linuxstbThe i2s controller takes care of sending data at the correct rate (after you configure it). You need to read your datasheet more ;)
14:57:41linuxstb(the section on SSC first, then the section on the peripheral DMA controller)
14:59:02Casainhohmmm, ok, seems I understand now. I2S will have a fixed rate that is correct to send for TLV320, and when DMA finish the FIFO, means that all the FIFO was sent at a correct rate, because DMA just sends after I2S ends the transmit.
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15:00:02Casainhookok - I must go now :-) Thank you, it's much more clear now at my head how to do it :-) :-
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15:09:27WoyciesjesIs rasher around?
15:18:10LloreanDid you have a Rockbox question?
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15:23:35WoyciesjesYeah. He asked me to try a current build with my FM Xmit. I wanted to know if there were any other helpful details I should get when I test it.
15:25:36WoyciesjesAnything from the debug menu, possibly? I'll grab the value for ACCESSORY in the debug menu, mentioned on the iPod Acc Wiki...
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15:50:08c250_eraserHow do I find the C250 eraser?
15:50:52gevaertsYou *are* the c250 eraser!
15:51:20Chexhi guys! I am goiing to be purchasing a e260 v.2 very soon, and will be joining the RockBox world, finally! :D
15:52:14gevaertsc250_eraser: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SansaC200Erase . Make sure to go through http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SansaE200Unbrick first though, to make sure ou really need it
15:52:33Chexcan anyone explain to me how the micro-sd card works on those players? Can you just leave them plugged in all the time while playing and using the player?
15:53:05LloreanChex: Yes.
15:53:45gevaertsc250_eraser: you're aware that the v2 isn't supported yet, right?
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15:56:35ChexLlorean: great, thanks
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15:57:29Chexoh, one other thing, the alpha port of rockbox for the v.2 sansa players, it does play .ogg files like standard Rockbox does, correct?
15:57:53gevaertsIt *will*, not *does*. There are still issues
15:57:58*Chex cries
15:57:58kugelfreqmod_gq: did you manage to get a disassembly of the OF sd driver?
15:58:14freqmod_gqyes, but i don't manage to get anything useful from it
15:58:31kugelcan you share it?
15:58:33freqmod_gqi.e. it is just a lot of instructions to me, and i don't manage to get the big picture
15:58:43Chexwell, thats ok, will be fun to watch progress... I just dont want sansa to come out with v.3 chipset, and not be able to get rockbox-capable players anymore (or again, after the v1 to v2 switch..)
15:58:50freqmod_gqwell, i did only use objdump etc.
15:58:53freqmod_gqbut yes
15:59:25freqmod_gqhowever this is the end of lesson, so i may have to wait tomorrow until i can do it. I'll send you a PM when it is done
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16:00:14kugelhuh?
16:00:20freqmod_gq(i dissassembled the whole file)
16:00:25kugeloh
16:00:45freqmod_gqi.e. i have a meeting at 16.15 CET etc.
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16:28:27c250_eraserMuch love for gevaerts!!! Thanks!!!! The C250 Erase Worked!!!
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17:11:12*Llorean thinks we really need a new built of rbutil without the Sansa bug.
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17:44:15webguest09howdy, thanks to everyone here who helped contribute to rockbox, i just started using it and i find it more intuitive than ipods interface. So I've been googling and havent found an answer, perhaps someone could help wiht my curiosity, why isnt rockbox able to use the broadcom decoder to play .mp4 videos as the regular ipod is able to? is it because broadcom or apple wont let you or is it a matter of broadcom
17:45:22LloreanThere's no available documentation for the chip, so there's very little knowledge about how to use it.
17:45:24evilnick_230webguest09: AFAIK it's because the datasheet is not public, so it takes a long time to reverse engineer
17:45:50webguest09that sucks, thank you for your help llorean and evilnick
17:47:37BigBambiAlso, the desire to reverse engineer it is low as it only affects one player and doesn't stop e.g. music playback
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18:16:55holotone1Does anyone here know offhand if my Sansa e200 running Rockbox will work with the type of FM transmitter / charger that gets the audio from the proprietary jack at the bottom? I know the charging bit will work, so long as I hold the right button down on boot, but wasn't sure if RB supported sending audio over that thing.....
18:17:40LloreanIf it just uses the line-out pin there, yeah, it'll work.
18:18:50holotone1Llorean: just what I was hoping to hear, thanks!
18:22:38WoyciesjesLlorean: Deja Vu?
18:23:39WoyciesjesI was looking at the iPod Acc. Wiki page, and noticed that Rasher updated it. I was thinking, a column for the version of Rockbox used with a particular acc would be helpful...
18:24:06rasherThere's a date field
18:24:28FlynDiceI'm trying to understand IBBS_ATTR. I see it simply declared, I see it's value assigned, i see it after variable declarations. Could someone enlighten me?
18:24:29LloreanSVN revision would probably be better than "date"
18:24:41LloreanSince "date" can mean "I'm using a six month old custom build, but it's being used today"
18:24:43WoyciesjesTrue, but that doesn't say if they used Relase (like form Rockbox Util), current, or another...
18:25:59WoyciesjesIn my case, I had tried with the stable, through the Rockbox Util, but then Rasher pointed out to me that it doesn't have support for iPod Acc. Protocol (that's the IAP mentioned yesterday, right?)
18:26:08domonokyFlynDice: afaik IBBS_ATTR means, that the variable/function is put into the bss section in IRAM instead of SD-Ram.
18:27:05rasherThere's no point in submitting reports about non-current builds.
18:27:37Woyciesjesrasher: I just loaded current (r20102) on my iPod to test later. Did you want me to get any other info?
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18:29:50*gevaerts decides do use rasher's builds for PP USB validation
18:29:54WoyciesjesTrue, non-current build info is not helpful, but if the Wiki page says "does not work with stable v3.1, try a Current version", the person would then know what to try. Would've helped me, at least. :)
18:30:59rasherWoyciesjes: Fill out the fields the table has. I don't really know much about this, so I expect that's enough
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18:32:00FlynDicedomonoky: So if it's simply declared it means iram is available and if it's after a variable/function declaration it put that in iram is that what you're saying?
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18:33:46domonokyi am not sure about the first thing, but second is right.
18:33:55FlynDicethanks
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18:36:49WoyciesjesIf it's okay with everybody here, I can work on keeping the iPod Accesory Wiki page up to date and useful. Is there someone I should clear this with, or do I just have at it? Being new here, I don't want to piss off anyone...
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18:37:55rasherWoyciesjes: Not sure what that'd involve
18:38:32Woyciesjesrasher: Which, doing the work, or getting permission?
18:38:50rasherNo, I've no idea what work that'd be
18:39:02rasherShort of buying lots and lots of accessories
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18:39:37WoyciesjesMy plan would be to try contacting the folks who have submitted entries, and find out if they recall what version they've used, and if they've gotten it working better since.
18:40:09WoyciesjesI would also add a line at the top asking people to send the info to me, then I can add it to the list for them.
18:40:10rasherNo reason to ask for the version. Just have them re-test
18:40:26WoyciesjesTure
18:40:34WoyciesjesOoops, "true"
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18:40:56gevaertsWoyciesjes: *all* submissions (including yours) are from before the IAP support commit anyway
18:41:08jaykayis there anything something like download-statistics for the rockbox-homepage?
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18:42:03linuxstbjaykay: We use third-party mirrors, and don't have access to those logs - assuming you're talking about files on download.rockbox.org
18:42:09rashergevaerts: There's one from lostlogic
18:42:50WoyciesjesYes, that's why I'm offering to "mantain" that page. To help get it current, and (somewhat more) reliable.
18:42:50gevaertsah yes
18:43:13gevaertsWoyciesjes: sure. What I mean is there's no real point in asking revisions.
18:43:21gevaertsThe table should have revisions though
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18:43:44rasherThe new table.
18:43:58jaykaylinuxstb: does rockbox "own" servers?
18:44:03jaykayrasher: where's that?
18:45:22rasherIpodAccessories
18:45:31linuxstbjaykay: "rockbox" as an entity doesn't exist.
18:46:17Woyciesjesgevaerts: You are right, in a way. But also, if they only tried it with, e.g. current-r20000, and gave up, the next person coming along would see that, and know to try with the latest currrent.
18:46:43jaykaylinuxstb: then a different question: where are all the pages from rockbox hosted?
18:46:49gevaertsWoyciesjes: sure, that's why the revision needs to be there
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18:47:10linuxstbI believe the main servers are owned by the employers (?) of two of the original Rockbox developers. The mirror servers are donated by other companies/projects. The forums are hosted on someone's personal (I think) server.
18:47:48jaykayok
18:48:38Woyciesjesgevaerts: So I'm just wondering who I need to get permission from (if any) to go ahead with my plan....
18:50:09LloreanWoyciesjes: There's no specific person or group of persons in charge to get permission from.
18:50:17evilnick_230Are the forums on misticriver?
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18:50:43LloreanWoyciesjes: It's more or less all collaboration. If you think there may be objections to your idea, you should write up what you actually think you'd be doing, and post a message to the mailing list seeing if people see any problems that may arise.
18:50:49Lloreanevilnick_230: No. They used to be, but were moved
18:52:01LambdaCalculus37evilnick_230: scorche hosts them now IIRC.
18:52:57WoyciesjesLlorean: Okay, thanks. I'll go ahead then. Post to users, I presume?
18:53:19LloreanIt's not really development discussion, so yes.
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18:54:32WoyciesjesI'm not expecting objections, but I'll post anyway, as a courtesy.
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18:55:34scorche|shyes...the forums are on my server...
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19:04:39LambdaCalculus37scorche|sh: Ahh.
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19:18:00Lsshi all i have a queer issue it seems
19:18:04Lssat times the song skips
19:18:24Lssit will stop every few seconds and resume afterwards
19:18:29LambdaCalculus37What player, what codec?
19:18:31Lsspausing seems to help
19:18:38Lssipod 5g 80gig
19:18:40LambdaCalculus37And what build revision?
19:18:58Lss3.1 stable need to check the revision though
19:19:07LambdaCalculus37That's all we need.
19:19:09Lssonly flac files seems to be affected
19:19:26Lssand it only happens when i load new songs
19:19:34Lsseven then it only happens randomly
19:19:49LloreanI'd guess just while buffering maybe.
19:20:18LloreanPossibly just a bad PCM watermark for FLAC. I don't think that ever really got sorted out.
19:20:20Lsseven for flac files?
19:20:39Lssok ok
19:20:50LloreanFLAC is VBR and can have a wide range of bitrates, average bitrate approximation can be very off across the short term for it.
19:20:54Lssbtw is it normal to experience more hdd activity on a rockboxed player?
19:21:19Lssi can literally hear mine at times
19:21:32LloreanYou should be able to hear it in the OF too.
19:21:35 Quit einhirn (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
19:21:44Lssthats the weird bit
19:21:50Lssdoesnt seem to affect OF
19:22:19LloreanThe amount of noise it makes when it spins is implicit in the hardware...
19:23:13Lsshumm maybe i should get it exchanged
19:23:27Lssthe 250gig hdd looks really enticing haha
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20:07:06WoyciesjesLLorean: would posting my proposal (for updating/maintaining the iPod acc. Wiki) in the forums under Apple - Install/Removal be appropriate?
20:07:42gevaertsThat sounds wrong to me...
20:09:26Woyciesjesgevaerts: My posting idea, or the HDD making too much noise? Yeah, I don't think you should be able to easily hear the HDD in a portable player...
20:10:05gevaertsWoyciesjes: posting non-installation things in the installation forums
20:13:47WoyciesjesOK. yeah, you're right. As I was compsing this reply in my head, I found the error in my train of thought...
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20:19:03Nico_Pgevaerts: you've received the usb tracer?
20:19:10gevaertsNico_P: yes
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20:19:15rashergevaerts: Any idea why FS #9935 hasn't been fixed on the irivers ages ago?
20:19:27Nico_Pgevaerts: nice :) are you doing the test tonight?
20:19:31rasherOh, ignore me.
20:19:34gevaertsNico_P: right now :)
20:19:43rasherBecause the irivers don't use the playback buffer.
20:19:46gevaertsyes
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20:25:49rasherSpeaking of FS #9935, positive reports in the forum
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20:38:09rasherZagor: Someone noted yesterday that if you try to edit a page in the wiki without being in twikiusersgroup, you don't get an errorpage
20:38:14rasherJust a blank page
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20:42:07jaykayrasher: true, i experienced it myself
20:42:40jaykayand it has a very long "address"
20:45:08Zagorrasher: ok :(
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20:55:14LearZagor: btw, any suggestions on how to attribute newlib files? Add Rockbox header, even for unmodified files, or just for modified ones?
20:56:09gevaertsrasher: that USB error on the forums isn't due to a bad filesystem I think (at least based on the data we have)
20:58:30ZagorLear: no rockbox header unless we've basically "made" the file. I think...
20:59:01rashergevaerts: Alright
20:59:22gevaertsrasher: I have no real idea what does cause it though
20:59:30gevaertsCould be a bad connection
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21:01:53rasherMy sansa dropped the connection completely yesterday, but I think I might not have the connector in all the way
21:02:19gevaertsYes. Something like that would look pretty much like this I think
21:02:55rasherIt does indeed look a bit like the errors I got
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21:11:33gevaertsResults of my PP5022/PP5024 USB tests at http://pastebin.ca/1347113
21:12:02gevaertscomma-separated numbers mean that I did more than one run
21:14:19rasherAre CRC errors alarming, or just annoying?
21:14:26gevaertsOn sansa we have pretty high CRC error numbers on read, but non-zero seems to be normal there. Also note the high numbers for the video EDM
21:14:52gevaertsJust annoying I think. People never complained about their ipod having USB issues...
21:18:39n1sgevaerts: are these the kind of errors that are automatically detected and reliably corrected?
21:19:08gevaertsNormally, yes. If you get too many of them the host may give up though.
21:19:24n1salso is there a "total" number to give some context for how many 43 million errors really are?
21:19:59gevaertsThere were about 700000 transactions in the sets (not that many actual meaningful packets, but...)
21:20:28gevaertsn1s: not 43 million. 43 on the first run, 438 on the second run, and 384 on the third
21:20:53n1sright, /me can't read...
21:22:38rashergevaerts: Planning on doing the conformance tests?
21:23:55jaykayif i could do some usb-tests with vista and a sansa e200, i would like to help :)
21:24:01jaykayjust write how to
21:24:20gevaertsrasher: not sure yet
21:24:25amiconngevaerts: I'm surprised by the huge speed difference in RB USB on mini and Video
21:25:06gevaertsamiconn: my mini is CF-modded. Maybe that makes a difference
21:25:27amiconnWell, diskmode is as fast as the Video OF....
21:26:15amiconnI got the same speeds on Mini G2 yesterday
21:26:30amiconn(no other PP5022+ hdd target here to compare with)
21:28:21gevaertsI can't really explain speeds, but they are consistent across runs
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21:31:44amiconnAny news on PP5020?
21:32:14gevaertsI'm doing the same tests there now. No errors yet
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21:46:33amiconngevaerts: What target?
21:46:53gevaertsamiconn: mr100, and now h10/5 (just starting that one)
21:47:15amiconnHmm. Any hubs involved?
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21:52:57*bluebrother considers committing the sudo check for rbutil
21:54:42gevaertsamiconn: No. I'm assuming that if the tracer shows no errors, it's fine. When I tested without a tracer a few days ago I also saw no resets on PP5020 (with hubs), although I saw some instability (my mr100 tends to lockup after a while when doing USB things. Maybe the FS is bad)
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21:59:48*amiconn makes some usb-enabled builds for H10/6 and COlor
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22:04:14gevaertsNew table at http://pastebin.ca/1347182 now with PP5020
22:05:20rasherAre you considering enabling USB for all PPs?
22:05:44gevaertsI'd like to, but I'm not sure
22:05:51rasherThe e200 really is rather slow indeed.
22:09:09gevaertsFor smallish copy operations that gets balanced out by the lack of reboot and database refresh I think
22:09:25gevaertsI'm more worried about the differences on ipod
22:09:38rasherYeah, certainly no big issue
22:09:59rasherYeah, that's a bit odd. No reason to not enable it though, is it?
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22:11:11gevaertsSome people are bound to complain, but they can still manually reboot to the OF I guess
22:11:52gevaertsAnd I'm not removing the USE_ROCKBOX_USB define anytime soon, so they can always compile without
22:12:26*rasher don't see any obvious reason to ever remove it
22:12:30gevaertsI'd say if amiconn's tests with PP5020 work out well, we enable them all
22:12:51gevaertsrasher: have a look at the #ifdefs in usb.c. Not very pretty...
22:15:48bertrikkugel I noticed you changed the DBOP_IN hardware register from 32 to 16 bit access
22:16:09bertrikis that going to make it faster, better or anything like that?
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22:18:25bertrikhi casainho, had any luck with your lcd_update_rect function?
22:19:08casainhobertrik: sorry, I think LCD is working as needed on this phase, so, now I am working on sound, DAC IC drivers...
22:19:41rashergevaerts: alright
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22:20:08casainhobertrik: did you saw the last pictures of LCD, showing firmware, menus, working? http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/RockboxPlayer
22:20:45bertrikcasainho, oh nice
22:23:50casainhonow I am working on audio, and I am using TLV320 DAC IC, I have many questions but luckly Atmel wrote a application note of a "AT91SAM Internet Radio" that uses the same DAC IC and the same ARM9 :-) :-)
22:23:54gevaertsIf we enable USB, I guess we also need to bring the H10 USB button logic back to normal
22:24:18casainhowas important to chose Atmel ARM for all information and examples ;-)
22:24:25Lloreangevaerts: H10 USB button logic?
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22:25:45gevaertsLlorean: most players go to UMS by default on plugin except if you hold the magic button. H10 (at least the 5GB, I should check) goes to UMS if you hold the menu button. This is because you need to hold that button while rebooting to go to the OF disk mode
22:25:55domonokycasainho: rockbox already has a driver for this chip, so you only need to provide the i2c transfer functions, and of course the pcm funcions to transfer the audio
22:26:00gevaertsIf we do our own disk mode that's a bit silly
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22:27:02Lloreangevaerts: Ah, yeah, sounds like something to fix then.
22:27:28casainhodomonoky: ok, but it's not easy for me... as looks like I need to use DMA, configure the I2S and understand the Main Clock for DAC (or use a crytall or use a clock from ARM9)
22:27:49casainhodomonoky: here a document from Atmel for that web radio: http://atmel.com/dyn/resources/prod_documents/doc6318.pdf
22:27:50Lloreangevaerts: Can we detect when we're no longer mounted, and resume being able to play music?
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22:31:26gevaertsLlorean: yes and no :)
22:32:23gevaertsIt should actually go back to "normal" mode on eject. Whatever that means exactly depends on the OS I think. There's a bug somewhere that maks this not work however.
22:33:05LloreanCould we offer a button to press on Rockbox's side to drop the USB connection?
22:33:25LloreanI know my PSP has something like that. Press "circle" and it disconnects and goes to just using the USB port for power.
22:33:48gevaertsUnconditionaly, or only if the OS hasn't locked the device?
22:34:12***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:34:37gevaertsBut yes, we should be able to do that
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22:35:58LloreanWell, on the PSP it's unconditional. They just trust people not to press it stupidly. We could probably be unconditional about it as well.
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22:42:13kugelbertrik: yes
22:42:56kugelbertrik: the datasheet says it's 16bit, that's all
22:43:23casainholinuxstb: are you there?
22:43:26*gevaerts thinks that we need a customisable WUS
22:44:12linuxstbcasainho: Yes, but other people can help too...
22:45:02Lloreangevaerts: We *could* offer a customizable USB logo at least. Just a file you can replace in the .rockbox folder (since disk spinup is mandatory for USB anyway) instead of compiling it in.
22:45:05LloreanWe'd even have binsize gains!
22:46:28gevaertsLlorean: we could show whether the OS locked the device (that usually means "mounted") or ejected it. With a bit of work we can also show transfer speeds or activity indicators
22:47:06casainholinuxstb: is just to say that I found that my ARM9 have DMA that can send a fifo from RAM to serial I2S, and signal with an interrupt at the end of the fifo :-) −− so, should be a bit easy to make what I need. Also I found that "AT91SAM Web Radio" code and explanation from Atmel, that plays MP3 files using the same DAC IC I am using, and using the DMA and I2S as I need :-)
22:47:09Lloreangevaerts: Those would all be pretty neat...
22:47:52gevaertsLlorean: also add a more precise/bigger battery indicator :)
22:48:53*Llorean always has his set to percentage.
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22:52:09BigBambigevaerts: Those indicators would be coolio :)
22:52:27Bagdercasainho: sounds like you're on the right path then!
22:52:30gevaertsUnfortunately all that is UI work :)
22:52:42*gevaerts could provide the backend data though
22:52:43casainhoBagder: \
22:52:49casainhoBagder: thanks :-)
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22:53:38 Part domonoky
22:54:09*bluebrother would like to see a status indicator on usb connected
22:55:24BigBambiI'd like to see some sort of row of LEDs like Knight Rider to indicate transfer rates and things like that :)
22:55:31BigBambiI want bling dammit! :P
22:55:53gevaertssee? It needs to be configurable!
22:56:13 Quit casainho ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.6/2009020911]")
22:56:29bluebrothernah, bling is bad. Put some technical information there!
22:56:50gevaertsYes! A running hexdump of the data being transfered!
22:56:59bluebrotherlike, the sector / cluster number currently accessed
22:57:00krazykitrun through the Matrix plugin, obviously
22:57:06BigBambibluebrother: Yes, thchnical info, but displayed purely on a row of LEDs :)
22:57:06kugelwe need a configurable WUS, definitely
22:57:11bluebrotherhehe, a hexdump would be kinda cool too :)
22:57:23bluebrotherplugins during usb connect!
22:57:23kugeluhm, that doesn't sound like a bad idea actually
22:57:24gevaertsCan we show 10MB/s hexdumps?
22:57:42kugel(WUS -> While USB Screen)
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23:00
23:00:13casainhocan anyone tell me if Rockbox can play files of 48000HZ?
23:00:24bluebrotheryes
23:00:53n1scasainho: music is resampled to 44.1kHz in rockbox when playing
23:01:01casainhoah, okok!!!
23:01:27casainhobecause I was seeing the Rockbox code and I saw that DAC is never configured to 48000...
23:01:35n1sgevaerts: I would be happy with a simple transfer speed indicator
23:01:59BigBambin1s: Yep, via the medium of a row of LEDs :)
23:02:07casainhobecause then it's easier for me to make my drivers, I will just care with 44100Hz
23:02:40n1scasainho: some plugins can use different sample rates if the hardware and driver supports it but 44.1kHz is most important
23:02:46casainhoand what is the bits number of each sample? 16bits, 32 bits?
23:03:15n1sBigBambi: but i don't want to solder a bunch of leds to my daps to see the transfer speed!
23:03:37 Quit The-Compiler ("leaving")
23:04:06*gevaerts likes the story of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Valdez_drinks_Costa_Rican_coffee
23:04:14gevaertsoops, wrong channel...
23:04:14BigBambin1s: virtual LEDs :)
23:04:40*n1s prefers numbers
23:05:08kugeln1s: WUS!!
23:05:13casainhon1s: can you tell me how many bits? 32 or 16 bits?
23:05:49*kugel imagines nice bitmap animations while transfering, nice information on what's transferred, etc
23:05:58n1scasainho: that depends on what you are lookign at, we output 16 bit to the DACs but some DSP is done in 32 bit AFAIR
23:06:18n1skugel: i think a customizable screen is way overkill
23:06:29kugel:(
23:06:44*kugel disagrees
23:07:08LloreanNot everything needs customizing.
23:07:29LloreanNot to mention, it's just an excuse to slow down transfers.
23:07:46kugelhuh?
23:09:00casainhon1s: so, If I am doing the driver, I just need to send to DAC in 16 bits? −− 32bit for DSP, to have good quality of audio?
23:09:01 Join allele [0] (n=allele@citrix-ps03.ad.uwp.edu)
23:09:10Lloreankugel: Our transfer speed seems to currently be limited by our firmware, so doing more while its transferring can't be a good idea...
23:09:25 Quit {phoenix} (Remote closed the connection)
23:09:25 Quit petur (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:09:36 Quit allele (Client Quit)
23:10:49n1scasainho: yes, send 16bit samples to the DAC, and yes 32 bits give more precision in calculations
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23:11:15sudoxnerdxHey can anyone link me the ZenUtil SVN?
23:13:55 Quit sudoxnerdx (Client Quit)
23:14:29casainhon1s: many thanks - it's important information for me, to work on audio drivers of my target :-)
23:15:08evilnick_230Can someone with a beast test out doing a screendump and check that the top row of pixels on the status bar are missing?
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23:20:51 Quit casainho ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.6/2009020911]")
23:23:09amiconngevaerts: My PP5020 speed results: http://pastebin.ca/1347255
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23:23:47amiconnIt's weird that ATA read on H10 is faster than on the Color...
23:24:14gevaertsdifferent disk setup?
23:25:04 Quit JdGordon (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:30:05amiconnIt seems like the resets are gone (testing through my special hub
23:30:23gevaertsOK. I guess that means we can do a global enable
23:30:29amiconnI wonder why though - I don't like bugs which are magically fixing themselves
23:31:17amiconnBtw, the usb connection behaviour on H10 is annoying
23:31:35gevaertsI know. That needs to go with the same commit
23:31:56amiconn(the fact that the button works the opposite way as on the other targets)
23:32:09amiconnIt makes sense for the reboot, but not with rockbox usb
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23:38:04BigBambiBloody awesome finally getting USB enabled :)
23:38:14BigBambiCongratulations all who have put in the hard work
23:38:43*Llorean throws a party.
23:38:56*evilnick_230 pops open the champagne
23:39:03*gevaerts decides to commit before partying
23:39:12*amiconn has no beer :(
23:39:15BigBambigevaerts: Go on then!
23:40:09 Quit MethoS- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:40:28*gevaerts starts watching the build table
23:40:44BigBambi\o/
23:41:10 Quit tessarakt ("Client exiting")
23:41:44 Quit evilnick_230 ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
23:42:46rasher_o\ \o/ /o_
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23:46:41CtcpPing from gevaerts!n=fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts
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23:47:54rashergevaerts: did you commit the fix of FS #9935?
23:48:33gevaertsrasher: oops, no...
23:49:12rasherProbably a good idea..
23:49:48*gevaerts will commit it right away
23:50:18midgeyno Elio love? :P
23:51:00gevaertsmidgey: the Elio doesn't have USB ids either
23:51:48*midgey prods linuxstb with an Elio
23:57:08 Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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23:57:08midgeywoo!
23:57:09LloreanAlmost got away without even any yellow
23:57:14amiconngevaerts: 2 points :P

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