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#rockbox log for 2009-03-03

00:01:42jhMikeSUnhelpful: I don't see any reason to background threads there unless loading makes UI unpleasant for some targets. BACKGROUND is pretty far back as far as priority.
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00:03:32Unhelpfulchanging it doesn't seem to help, aside from making it catch up a little faster, maybe... but it still doesn't load slides while scrolling, even though it's coded to, even though the sim does.
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00:04:29saratogaBagder: ping
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00:04:48Bagdera bit busy right now
00:04:49jhMikeSUnhelpful: Make the priority higher (just to see). Bring it up to 10 or something.
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00:07:04UnhelpfuljhMikeS: PRIORITY_USER_INTERFACE should be correct? not that it helps. also, welcome back.
00:08:52 Quit bertrik ("Leaving")
00:09:36jhMikeSUnhelpful: Yeah, that should match the main thread. I'm not sure if you saw, but I suggested maybe make it higher than the UI.
00:12:00kugeljhMikeS: ok, let's see if this works
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00:15:54kugeljhMikeS: looks good, it seems (subjectively) instant now
00:16:36*kugel wonders how to tell it's working at all now :)
00:17:44 Quit n1s ("Lämnar")
00:17:52jhMikeSkugel: just make sure it takes no action or unregisters when the WPS is not what's displayed, I don't know if you'll get unwanted WPS drawing over other things otherwise.
00:18:39UnhelpfuljhMikeS: i lost that. i can try it.
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00:18:58kugeljhMikeS: hm, I created a action for it (ACTION_WPS_UPDATE), that should only be able to come from the lcd hook
00:18:59 Nick pixelma_ is now known as pixelma (n=pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma)
00:19:06 Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
00:21:10jhMikeSkugel: It definitely should unregister before gui_wps_show returns
00:22:04kugeljhMikeS: just by doing set_hook(NULL)?
00:22:39jhMikeSyes
00:22:46kugelhehe, this lets me get rid of the dirty track change hackery
00:23:17kugelsince I can now issue a full update, not whatever the next update is
00:24:53Unhelpfulhrm, half the priority gets it loading covers on time. i could also just have it load more than one cover before yielding, but it's probably not being scheduled at all while the UI scrolls
00:25:38kugelmeh, add lcd_set_enable_hook(NULL), before every possible return...
00:27:38jhMikeSkugel: I thought if (exit) {...} would be sufficient it appears
00:27:51 Quit XavierGr ()
00:28:39jhMikeShmmm, I guess there's more. perhaps a rethinking of that part is in order.
00:29:02jhMikeSlike setting a return code and returning from a single place
00:29:49kugeljhMikeS: I thought so too, but I wouldn't want to change to much at once
00:30:07jhMikeSUnhelpful: if the thread is higher priority, and the lower thread yields, it will get scheduled. the greater the priority difference, the more it the lower thread gets skipped.
00:30:46kugeljhMikeS: I haven't noticed a problem with not unregistered though, not even in screens that are called from within the wps (i.e. the wps doesn't exit meanwhile)
00:30:54Unhelpfulah, so backgrounding it make it get skipped until the main loop hit its wait-for-event, basically.
00:32:27 Quit rocko ("Leaving")
00:32:35saratogacan anyone here upload images to wikipedia?
00:33:25jhMikeSUnhelpful: the lower thread will get some aging boost to prevent starvation. even if higher priority, it sleeps alot anyway but that ensures it runs next when it wakes up.
00:37:00***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:37:48jhMikeSkugel: I suppose it won't be much of one at this point.
00:41:33toffe82saratoga: do you want to try to retrieve the of of your t400 with your method, the updater is working but it would be good to have the version 1.1 of the of
00:41:37 Quit petur (Remote closed the connection)
00:43:11saratogatoffe82: we'd need to have a working rockbox port to do that
00:43:18saratogaor at least working well enough to have rockbox USB
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00:43:55toffe82ok, I though you could retrieve it without rockbox
00:44:08 Join yhuang [0] (n=yhuang@unaffiliated/yhuang)
00:44:13toffe82which was the main idea if I remeber, how to retreive the OF
00:44:51kadobanamiconn: do you have any suggestions about the goban plugin controls on recorder? (i noticed you mentioned something about it a while ago, but i was on my way out). i agree that the controls are odd on a lot of targets (i'm not too familiar with many of them)
00:48:50 Quit shotofadds ("Leaving")
00:49:19saratogatoffe82: no my way just undeletes the files after a rockbox install, but you still need rockbox in order to get into UMS mode
00:50:06toffe82ok
00:50:56toffe82I confirm that the updater is working so if somebody can look if there is a way to bypass the security....
00:50:57 Quit ender` (" A memorandum is written not to inform the reader but to protect the writer. -- Dean Acheson")
00:51:21saratogatoffe82: any idea what happens if we send it a bad firmware?
00:51:29toffe82no sure
00:51:40toffe82I didn't find a way to enter in recovery
00:51:47toffe82I juste made the update
00:53:45toffe82modifiyng the nkbin doesn't change the bootloader so it should go in recovery mode
00:54:37toffe82like the S or the V, I try a long time ago t rockbox of the S on the V and it just went in recovery
00:55:19 Quit tessarakt ("Client exiting")
00:56:44 Quit MethoS- (Remote closed the connection)
00:57:22saratogatoffe82: any idea how the exploit works? i didn't follow gigabeat s hacking so i have no idea
00:58:59toffe82I can forward you some mail from the one who found it with some explanations
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01:00
01:01:09toffe82saratoga: pm me your email
01:02:20 Part gartral
01:07:16 Join Brando753 [0] (n=chatzill@ip70-162-97-11.ph.ph.cox.net)
01:08:02Brando753is there anyway way to run rockbox on an ipod touch?
01:08:20Brando753emulate, recompile, etc :D
01:08:25saratogano
01:08:31Brando753;(
01:08:50LloreanYou could work on it. But so far every time I've suggested that, it's never happened (which is why you can't yet).
01:09:38Brando753well the only problom i would see would be setting up the touch screen driver ;9
01:10:16Brando753everything else with a little time could be adapted for the touch
01:10:32saratogathat doesn't even make sense
01:10:46Brando753? what dosent
01:10:55saratogathe real problem is that you haven't done anything, not that you have done any one specific thing
01:11:44kugeljhMikeS: why is lcd_set_enable_hook within HAVE_LCD_ENABLE, but lcd_call_enable_hook not. Also, why is the former within LCD_COLOR?
01:12:21LloreanBrando753: Rockbox _has_ a touch screen interface already for certain in-development players. The main problem is that there's a plenty of work needed to port it, and none at all has been done. Zero.
01:13:25Brando753you have alredy built a driver for touch screen mp3/4 players?
01:13:53LloreanWe tend to call them DAPs. What formats their original firmwares support are pretty much irrelevant.
01:14:15LloreanAnd yes, there's a beginning of an interface for touchscreen targets. It's not perfect, but it's more or less completely usable.
01:15:14Brando753also, another queastion i would like to ask, is there a generic firmware version of rockbox for non brand named players (4th generation mp3 players, etc.)
01:15:31LloreanI don't even know what you mean by "4th generation MP3 players"
01:15:36Brando753:D
01:15:51Brando7531 sec
01:15:55kadobanBrando753: those players aren't standardized at all, they would need to each be custom made
01:15:58LloreanYou can't make a magic generic version of Rockbox, because it needs to support specific hardware (buttons, LCDs, etc) explicitly.
01:16:00 Quit tyfoo (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:22:30Brando753is it impossible to make generic drivers for colour mp3 players, when i work with ubuntu os it has generic drivers for everything that you use (at least thats the computer field)
01:24:27kadobanfor rockbox the same thing wouldn't work. a lot of time goes into just customizing the button setup for instance, and that's probably the least of the problems
01:25:27LloreanBrando753: Computers still use a fairly set architecture, and there's a lot of standards for how things should work (or at least, compatibility mode for things). Operating systems on computers can also be a lot bigger, and contain a lot of drivers for things so that it can carry all kinds of optionally necessary stuff with it
01:27:00saratogacomputers don't have "generic" drivers anyway, at least not in the sense that generic means not hardware specific, they just have a whole lot of drivers built in so theres always one for most every type of hardware out there
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01:27:43Lloreansaratoga: Well, there's such things as VESA and such to make things easier, right?
01:28:35saratogavesa drivers are still hardware specific, just the hardware is made to work with the driver
01:28:41Brando753you do have the open source file of all these drivers correct
01:28:42Brando753?
01:29:04saratogawhat does that mean
01:30:01Brando753you have the firmware and all its drivers available open source correct?
01:30:04jhMikeSkugel: wait, lemme check that again. I though it was within HAVE_LCD_ENABLE. :\
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01:30:46kugeljhMikeS: I'll need both within LCD_ENABLE || LCD_SLEEP anyway
01:30:56kugelnot sure about the LCD_COLOR restriction though
01:31:14saratogaBrando753: yeah rockbox is open source, see the front page
01:31:57Brando753not exactly what i was asking, O well nvm
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01:32:41jhMikeSkugel: If the conditions change, I guess what compiles it should too. Grayscale LCDs are usually readable without a backlight and are left on but doesn't that change with the clip?
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01:33:02kugelyea
01:33:20kugelalso, there's HAVE_LCD_TRANSFLECTIVE now
01:34:09kugelI think i got the patch working nicely here now with the hook
01:34:31jhMikeSthis #define stuff is getting confusing. Perhaps a single LCD_PROPERTIES #define would make it more sane. I dunno.
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01:35:40kugeldoes a unused goto mark cause a warning?
01:35:44jhMikeSapparently the #defines are muliplying with all these new targets.
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01:35:53kugelyea
01:36:03kadobankugel: unused label? yes
01:36:17kugelok, so let me #ifdef it..
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01:36:34Brando753how do you package your codecs for videos?
01:37:46kugeljhMikeS: this patch adds quite a few #ifdefs in the wps files ...
01:37:58jhMikeSBrando753: the video decoding is built into mpegplayer
01:38:01kadobanBrando753: rockbox only supports one video codec as of now
01:38:56Brando753well i wish to know in which method you used to package the video codec
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01:40:27jhMikeSthere's instructions on transcoding the video if that's what you mean
01:40:35LloreanBrando753: What do you mean by "package"?
01:41:23Brando753how did you go from an original mpeg codec to one which is workable on rockbox
01:41:44saratogahttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PluginMpegplayer
01:41:47saratogaread that
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01:43:21jhMikeSBrando753: optimized it to run for a particular core type, which means redoing many things in assembly
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01:44:16jhMikeSand for grayscale targets it only decodes luminance
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01:44:33Brando753well im going to go mess around with the rockbox source and see what i can do with it ;D
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02:18:12midgeydoes anyone have any qualms about me changing all user: lines to user: core in all the langs?
02:18:22hillshumAny thoughts on full touchscreen as a GSoC project?
02:18:43midgeyadditionally, it prints a warning if the user is missing or something unknown
02:18:53midgeybasically it's part of localized plugins
02:19:37JdGordonhillshum: there is some work on touchscreen in svn, but because we dont actually ahve any fully working targets yet there hasnt been much done... it could happen in gsoc for sure
02:19:51*JdGordon has some ideas but lack motivation untill the mr500 works :p
02:20:03hillshumShould I add it too the wiki?
02:20:15midgeylangs stay at v4 and should be identical to the current output from genlang
02:20:20UnhelpfuljhMikeS: i'm a little confused as to why it had to be a good deal lower before it stopped being starved... will that cause problems with it starving playback/decode?
02:20:30JdGordonmidgey: you mean lines with a blank user: field?
02:20:52midgeywell, they're all blank right now
02:20:58midgeybut i'm changing them to user: core
02:21:18midgeysome langs are missing the user field, but I've fixed those as well
02:21:37JdGordonoh your talking about non english ones?
02:21:48hillshumMake a new Core section on the page?
02:22:11midgeyyes, eesti, esperanto, hebrew, and a few others were missing the user field
02:22:40JdGordonnag rasher to fix his script to copy the field from english.lang
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02:23:46rashermidgey: No, that sounds fine. Should stop the endless flood of "what does the user: line mean?"
02:23:53midgeyi've changed them all in the lang files already
02:24:13midgeyok
02:24:36midgeyit's makes it easier to resync my gsoc work
02:25:06kugelrasher: Yea, "user: core" makes it pretty obvious!
02:25:17kugelIs there going to be another user?
02:25:27midgeyeventually....
02:25:34*kugel thought plugins would have their own .langs
02:26:04midgeyi had that originally, but own lang was determined to be more desired
02:26:24kugelthat's what I said, isn't it?
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02:26:37hillshumso .cfg files are in /.rockbox/home/hillshum ?
02:26:41hillshum:P
02:26:45*midgey is messing up typing all over
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02:27:14midgeythere is one english.lang etc
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02:27:31rashermidgey: Any hope this could go in shortly after 3.2?
02:27:31midgeygenlang sorts by user and creates multiple .c files
02:27:53midgeyif i could figure out why genlang is always giving my an id of 0, yes possibly
02:27:57rasherSeems like the sort of thing you want to have around for a while before a release
02:28:20midgeyyes, maybe get a few translations in :)
02:30:01kugelspeaking of gsoc, I wonder what happened about the wps editor
02:30:25kugeldoes the one in svn still "work"?
02:31:01JdGordona bit...
02:31:17JdGordonthere has been some work on it in svn and the tracker
02:34:32hillshumIs charging in powermgmt-$TARGET.c?
02:35:10JdGordonsometimes :D
02:36:07kugelit seems it's more like: powermgmt.c + power[mgmt]-<target>.c + MAGIC
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02:37:03***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:37:26hillshumAlso, is there any way of knowing if RB is charging while the USB screen is up?
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02:47:39rashermidgey: genlang is something I *might* be able to help with - need an extra pair of eyes?
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02:48:34midgeyif you'd like i can pastebin what I have so far
02:48:43midgeyi won't have time to work on it tonight
02:50:31rasherSure
02:51:46midgeywell at least my changes produce warnings correctly....
02:52:36rasherThat's a huge commit...
02:52:58*kugel had a bigger one today :p
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02:57:41jhMikeSUnhelpful: I suppose it has to do with differences in how things really work between sim and target. Given that it sleep so much and a sleeping thread uses no CPU at all (or a tiny bit to monitor timeouts) I can't see it starving things too readily.
02:59:46zombineso I'm interested in writing software on rockbox... Is that even possible? I'm not sure how "OS-Like" rockbox really is.
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03:00:14kadobanzombine: it's very possible, there are quite a few "plugins" as they're known
03:01:32zombineInteresting... I suppose I should go read about that then. Thanks
03:01:42midgeyrasher: http://www.pastebin.ca/1351566
03:01:57midgeyalthough it seems to be working....
03:03:18midgeyworking being an ambiguous term. i mean now it doesn't crash horribly
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03:04:52midgeyactually something strange is going on, so your mileage may vary
03:05:29rasherWhat do I need to look out for?
03:06:13midgeywell go ahead and just test it out if you'd like
03:06:25midgeythe issue i mentioned earlier seems to have vanished
03:06:35midgeyso I was probably doing something wrong
03:06:45midgeyjust see if loading languages works
03:06:49midgeyand running plugins
03:06:59midgeyparticularly blackjack, chopper, and chessbox
03:07:05midgeychessbox should crash in the menus
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03:11:28kadobanmidgey: is there a way for that to work with plugins which use plugin_get_buffer? (the strings get loaded there, right?)
03:11:49midgeyit should be
03:12:00midgeyi had a hackish solution back over the summer
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03:19:30rasherDidn't get terribly far... make: *** No rule to make target `/home/jonas/local/rockbox/build/lang/lang-timestamp', needed by `build-langs'. Stop.
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03:22:49JdGordonthe talk files are loaded into the playback buffer? so no plugins will be able to play music anymore?
03:23:13midgeyrasher: you might have to make twice, the build magic isn't there yet
03:23:26rasherNo dice
03:23:41midgeybah, i'll have to look at it some other time
03:25:22JdGordonmidgey: you got lots of yello.w...
03:25:28midgeyi know...
03:25:33midgeyworking on it right now
03:25:34JdGordonok :)
03:25:52midgeyand it will steal the plugin buffer for loading languages
03:26:30JdGordonoh, plugin buffer not audio buffer.. thats ok.. except when the plugins themselves are huge
03:26:58midgeysuggestions for that case?
03:26:59kugel /me doesn't consider this as theft
03:27:16JdGordonin that case plugins using plugins_get_buffer() shouldnt cause any problems because that returns however much is left
03:27:36midgeywell right now that space isn't updated :)
03:28:36JdGordonwhy not? shouldnt load_plugin() (or whatever its called) grab the plugin, grab the .lng and only then start the plugin?
03:28:51midgeyi havent gotten around to it
03:29:06JdGordonok, fair enough
03:29:27JdGordonI wouldnt worry about not having room for the langs just yet (how bi are they expected to be anyway?)
03:30:32*JdGordon wishes he could figure out his WPS patch fubar :(
03:30:44midgeyassuming the code is correct, only the strings needed for that plugin will be loaded
03:32:39midgeyblackjack uses ~30 strings and that's the largest of the three that I've touched
03:35:12JdGordonmaybe we can do some swapping if things get very tight.. dump the plugin ram back to disk load the (pre-checked lang), talk then dump it all back
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03:36:34midgeywhat plugins are close to the limit other than doom?
03:37:18LloreanRockboy
03:37:47*midgey should stop neglecting rockboy
03:37:49LloreanIn fact, in many cases Gameboy ROMs require the audio buffer unless you raise the plugin buffer to ~1.5 times its current size. it depends on the size of the ROM in use.
03:38:25midgeywell only non-IRAM targets can load games without stealing the audio buffer right?
03:38:33JdGordonthose wouldnt use speach once the game starts though would they?
03:38:56midgeygoing to the menu pauses the game
03:39:33Lloreanmidgey: Yeah, but non-IRAM targets includes the Gigabeat F/X/S which are pretty ideal for Gameboy playing during music in terms of available CPU
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03:40:26midgeytrue, although if I ever got the iboy core working....
03:40:38LloreanWhat about it?
03:40:58midgeyi have a hybrid version of rockboy and iboy lying around here somewhere
03:41:14midgeythe cpu asm was never being called though
03:41:29midgeybut it would be nice to have more target that could play gb at a decent speed
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03:42:37LloreanIt would, yes.
03:45:58soapKat Tanaka Okopnik, the managing editor @ Linux Gazette contacted Scorche and I @ SCaLE and wants to do an article on Rockbox. Contact me for email if interested in being that someone.
03:46:23LloreanI'm more than happy to if nobody else wants to try it this time.
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04:54:13zombineSo does rockbox still not implement malloc?
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04:55:28Lloreanzombine: The same reasons it didn't before are still true.
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04:57:58kadobanzombine: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WhyNoMalloc
04:59:26zombinehah. I like Reason 4.
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05:14:40JdGordonno malloc doesnt mean completly no dynamic memory though
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05:40:03*Unhelpful thinks "some of our targets don't have MMUs" would be a good reason, also
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05:41:19kadobanbut you don't need an MMU for malloc...
05:41:37midgey_for compaction it's pretty useful....
05:41:54Unhelpfulkadoban: but you do for free to be truly useful - otherwise holes made by free are only good for same-or-smaller allocations.
05:42:36kadobanoh i see, yeah that seems like a difficult problem
05:43:33Unhelpfulnot merely difficult, unsolvable. the malloc API returns a pointer, and doesn't know where you store it, or where you've stored (possibly offset) copies of it. there's no way, without virtual memory, to move an allocation.
05:44:54kadobanhmm, indeed. i've never really thought about malloc all that much.. *goes to look up the algorithms*
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06:18:18zombineabout how long of an antiskip buffer could I afford with no plugins running on 32Mb RAM?
06:20:03Unhelpfulzombine: you can only run one plugin at a time, and its buffer is permanently reserved.
06:24:27zombineUnhelpful: Ah. righto then. And I'm guessing there's enough RAM under normal conditions to not have to worry about the antiskip buffer eating up large portions of it?
06:25:09Unhelpfuli'm not really sure what you're getting at?
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06:26:59*midgey_ posts a half-assed synced version of his gsoc work and disappears
06:29:43zombineActually, I think I found an answer... Was just wondering how big would be too big for the length of the anti-skip buffer.
06:30:28zombineBut with 32M of RAM, you'd have to set it to some ridiculously huge length before it started eating up unreasonable amounts of memory
06:30:40zombineat least I would assume
06:33:09zombineBut since my writing skills seem to have devolved considerably, I think I'll just sleep on it
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06:41:54*Llorean didn't have a chance to explain what the anti-skip buffer actually is, and why you want it as small as you can while keeping it effective.
06:42:33gibbon_you can explain to me, if you like ;)
06:43:48gibbon_since i wondered before, why there is this antiskip option if there already is the playbuffer - not understanding how these two work together and where they sit in the data chain
06:43:49LloreanBasically, "anti skip" tells it how much needs to be left in the buffer before it starts refilling.
06:44:13LloreanSo unless your player's shaking _a lot_ that part of the buffer never empties. You're basically shrinking the part that actually gets used to store music (and thus, requiring more disk spinups)
06:44:33LloreanThe anti-skip portion is there in case jogging or other things cause your disk to take more time to spin up than usual.
06:44:51gibbon_so its less a seperate buffer but more a margin in the playbuffer?
06:45:05LloreanBasically, yes.
06:45:22gibbon_ok, that helps me understanding. thanks
06:45:49LloreanYou want to lower it as much as possible as long as it doesn't cause skips. If you're not doing anything active with your player, the minimum is probably best.
06:46:12gibbon_i don't expect skips from a CF-Card, so i might turn it "off"
06:46:31LloreanYeah, there should be no need for it on flash players
06:47:02gibbon_(its an ipod mini, so the option is there, but of no need anymore)
06:47:37LloreanIt may still be there on our flash targets, honestly. I don't know if anyone's made it conditional. I've never checked.
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06:53:23ruckus1hey folks. i know this is waaaay off topic, but I don't have an idea where to ask about this. i want to calculate the size of my (mp3) music collection would be if it is encoded in flac. does anyone have an idea how to do this? the amount of hours is 446.
06:53:46Lloreanruckus1: That is off topic. We really do ask that you keep discussion here on-topic.
06:54:10ruckus1Llorean: any idea where can I ask about this?
06:54:20*Llorean points to the channel topic...
06:54:47ruckus1well yes, but maybe a more specific channel
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06:55:39LloreanThe topic has a channel in it where you can ask for help and/or ask for a more specific channel. Did you even read the topic, or did you just assume I was pointing you at it needlessly and say that?
06:56:34ruckus1i was hoping for knowledge. nevermind it.
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06:58:08JdGordoncabbiev2 should be just displaying a grey icon for repeat mode if its set to off right?
06:58:11cool_walking_If you were going to ask in here, why can't you ask in #rockbox-community? It has a lot of the same people.
06:58:32LloreanJdGordon: Yeah it's a grayed out version of the icon, I think
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08:21:00amiconnkadoban: The most confusing thing is that the main menu isn't on F1. F1 is the menu button per convention on the recorders; everyone expects the menu there
08:22:06amiconnOther than that I didn't experiment much, as I don't remember at all how to play Go.
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08:38:17amiconnkadoban: Hmm, and Off doesn't exit
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08:58:14bazzawilleeehey guys what would be the best player to get rock box working?
08:58:34B4gdersee the BuyersGuide wiki page
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09:31:37B4gderso, what's the verdict on the voices of today?
09:31:54*B4gder assumes not a single person has tried them ;-)
09:33:35pixelmaare they broken?
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09:33:48B4gderthey're made with a new festival voice
09:33:51B4gderpresumably better
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09:42:43B4gderpersonally I never even used the former ones ;-)
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09:51:02pixelmame neither though I use voice...
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10:04:34Draftmanhi rockers!
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10:11:35archivatorDo we have a new festival'd voices now?
10:12:03B4gderyes I think so
10:12:28archivatorNo problems during build?
10:13:14B4gderwhy would it be problems?
10:14:26archivatorI mysteriously started getting Error 141 and festival crashing at some point last night.. An svn up fixed it but it was really weird. That's why I'm asking, festival hasn't been flawless on my machine..
10:14:58B4gderwell, festival has run fine for years on this machine, and the output files seem to be of a decent size so I didn't check for any errors
10:17:57archivatorWith all the custom voices, something's messed up on my end, apparently.
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13:07:37archivatorQuick question: who is the main maintainer of rbutil? I think he needs some help - just loaded up the .pro in eclipse and got 22 TODOs .. =/
13:10:10B4gderbluebrother and domonoky are two of the main guys, but I think we could say we all "maintain" it
13:11:04BigBambiarchivator: Feel free to fix any of them and submit patches
13:11:07archivatorB4gder: good to know that, thanks.
13:11:35archivatorBigBambi: Right now I'm working on festival integration. After that, I'll see what the TODOs are all about..
13:12:02*BigBambi doesn't get why that is a =/ - clearly there are things to do, and volunteers only have so much time...
13:12:33pixelmaB4gder: if my e-mail address changed - should I unsubscribe and subscribe again in the RB mailing lists? Is that even possible if I don't have the old one anymore?
13:13:07B4gderyes, you should and if you can't they'll be removed automatically (or manually by us admins)
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13:14:47archivatorBigBambi: I wasn't expecting that long a list. Granted, it's not a small project and apparently it's the devs' coding style to use TODOs... Not really a =/ in the sense you put into the smil.. er, frowney.
13:15:17pondlifeAnyone here with a Gigabeat (S or F) able to give FS #8894 a testing - see if you can repro Nico_P's report.? See the last comment on http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8894 for the horrible details.
13:15:27BigBambiarchivator: It just read like you were complaining that people weren't working hard enough
13:15:50BigBambipondlife: I can tonight if still needed
13:16:29archivatorBigBambi: not at all. I appreciate every little bit of work, trust me. Sorry if I sounded rude.
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13:16:35pondlifeWould be useful - I'd be interested to see if it's beasty or beaty...
13:17:05BigBambipondlife: I can try on both if you like :)
13:17:31pondlifeIf you could, please do. It's easy for Nico_P to reproduce apparently.
13:17:46pondlifeI didn't ask him what file format he was using though.
13:17:58pondlife(Doubt that's relevant anyway.)
13:18:02BigBambiWill do
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14:10:29Casainhohello :-)
14:11:00CasainhoI sent a message to mailing list with title: "working on Rockbox Player prodution" - can someone please verify if it was sent, received on mialing list?
14:11:41B4gderno it was not received
14:11:51B4gdernot yet at least
14:12:25CasainhoI sent 2 minutes ago
14:12:39Casainhomaybe all other messages I sent were not received :-(
14:12:48linuxstbYou can check the email archive on the website
14:13:10Casainholinuxstb: I will do now it ;-.)
14:13:20pixelmaB4gder: in my old confirmation mail to the -dev list is the xyz in the "confirm xyz" subject my automatically assigned password? (I obviously can't remember...)
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14:14:01Casainholinuxstb: is there a way to seach on site archive?
14:14:09B4gderno I don't think so
14:14:16B4gderthat was for pixelma
14:14:30pixelmahmm
14:15:41linuxstbCasainho: Don't you know the date/time of the emails you sent?
14:16:14Casainholinuxstb: hmmm, then I will search like that...
14:16:28pixelmaB4gder: found it
14:18:08pixelma"By clicking on the Unsubscribe button, a confirmation message will be emailed to you. This message will have a link that you should click on to complete the removal process (you can also confirm by email; see the instructions in the confirmation message)." <- I won't get it anymore when sent to my old address
14:18:23B4gderhehe, I can ubsub you manually
14:18:38B4gder@infocity.de ?
14:18:44pixelmayes
14:18:56B4gderremoved
14:19:02pixelmathanks
14:19:11B4gdermsg me your new and I can add you quickly as well
14:21:50Casainhono, I don't see e-ails I sent to mailing list... what can be the problem?
14:22:18CasainhoI am receiving them... and I get no error when I send e-mails to
14:23:05B4gderthe problem is most likely that you're not sending the mails using the same From: as you're subscribed as
14:24:07CasainhoB4gder: hmmmm, I will check it.
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14:25:35damadaHi, I wonder if there are any plans to support flash memory irivers in the next future, such as the e100?
14:25:58B4gderdamada: we don't plan such things, people work what they want
14:26:04B4gderwork on even
14:26:13B4gderdamada: feel free to dive in and help it happen
14:26:45CasainhoI did the "Password reminder" 2 times now and I didn't got any e-mail.... is the server quick or slow?
14:27:10B4gderand you checked your spam folder?
14:27:28damadaB4gder: OK, get it I just might not be up to that, yet :) There supported players are only the H-type, so I wonder if someone is maybe already working on the E-types?
14:27:45B4gderdamada: only very slightly, nothing "real"
14:28:06Casainhowell, lloks like I wasn't on the mailing list....
14:28:27B4gderyou are on the -dev list
14:28:49Casainhooh man, is that, I am just on the dev and not on the other......
14:28:54Casainhothanks.
14:30:53damadaB4gder: I am a little afraid to ask, because I think that this question is ver FAQ, but I am looking for a decent player with OGG and FLAC (mp3 wouldn't hurt) capabilities, good FM radio, standard USB connector, and preferably not a touchpad or -display... Is there a good overview for that?
14:30:56Casainhook, message sent :-)
14:31:13B4gderdamada: the BuyersGuide wiki page
14:31:23Casainhodamada: why not touch?
14:31:40B4gderrockbox doesn't run supported on any touch target
14:32:00damadaCasainho: because the ones I have tested didn't work too well, and I like a haptic feedback
14:32:15gibbon_is there still a call for buildservers? i think i remember reading something like that on the wiki once upon a time
14:32:33Casainhodamada: okok - it's nice to know. Did you read about Rockbox Player? http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=6751.msg145218#msg145218
14:32:46B4gdergibbon_: if you have a fast server, we're always interested!
14:32:51B4gderhttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/BuildServer
14:32:52Casainhodamada: sorry: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/RockboxPlayer
14:33:20damadaCasainho: not yet, let me read up on it
14:33:58gibbon_B4gder: ok... i will have a look on the requirements and start testing
14:34:11Casainhodamada: and here is some g
14:34:19Casainhopromissing news: http://www.rockbox.org/mail/archive/rockbox-archive-2009-03/0018.shtml
14:35:44damadaCasainho: that looks very interesting, indeed!
14:36:21Casainhodamada: well, it's not ready yet for you to buy, use ;-)
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14:36:50gibbon_B4gder: are there statistics on how long the buildservers are under load during a build and during which time?
14:37:14B4gdergibbon_: they're activated on each commit, we do ~95 builds on some 20-23 servers
14:37:15gibbon_B4gder: not that the system in question is mission critical, but i want to keep the box maintainable
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14:37:28B4gderon my host I don't even notice the builds
14:37:41B4gderthen my is one of the faster
14:38:39B4gderthe entire "round" is usually 6-7 minutes for all builds
14:39:00gibbon_ok...
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14:40:24n1sand about 10-20 builds per day
14:40:54B4gderor 5-30... :-)
14:41:16gibbon_ok... i'll get back to you if i have tested the machine.. i guess it will meet the requirements ;)
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14:41:34gibbon_estimated monthly traffic statistics would be nice though
14:41:53B4gderI don't think anyone has even considered doing that
14:42:13B4gderan opportunity for you! :-)
14:42:19gibbon_;)
14:42:48gibbon_if the monthly traffic stays below 20GB, it should be ok ;)
14:42:56B4gderoh it certainly do
14:42:59B4gderdoes
14:43:59gibbon_ok. waiting for deployment of that machine, then
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14:51:11gevaertsFebruary had about 300 commits. The major part of traffic is uploading the zips I'd guess, so assuming you do two builds (sims and bootloaders are only built, not uploaded, so even fast hosts won't get much more I guess), and assuming that a build is about 2MB on average, that means 1.2GB/month upload.
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14:51:32gevaertsOf course there's also the svn update traffic, but I don't have a real idea about that
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14:55:50gartralgood morning all, i've noticed that in rockbox, when im charging, the battery never comes to a %100 charge, and if the counter said 100 when i pull the cable, it will immediately drop to 99, then very shortly after that (no more than 40 seconds, nothing playing), drop to 98-97% before it "stabilizes", but if i force boot the OF, the battery will take a complete charge
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15:01:21gibbon_gevaerts: thanks for pointing that out
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15:13:33gartrali've noticed that in rockbox on my e250, when im charging, the battery never comes to a %100 charge, and if the counter said 100 when i pull the cable, it will immediately drop to 99, then very shortly after that (no more than 40 seconds, nothing playing), drop to 98-97% before it "stabilizes", but if i force boot the OF, the battery will take a complete charge
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15:14:56Unhelpfulyou *just* said that.
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15:44:06dfkti assume it's NOT safe to inject the bootloader into the new sansa clip 1.01.32 firmware?
15:44:31LambdaCalculus37I don't think anyone's tried it yet.
15:46:49dfktthanks, i think i'll wait :)
15:47:36LambdaCalculus37Unless you're crazy brave enough to try and tell us what it does. ;)
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15:58:23kugeldfkt: how about I make it work, and you test it?
15:58:36archivatorIs it acceptable to use an external script in rbutil to talk to festival? Festival does some voodoo magic with the tty and does not use standard streams..
16:00
16:01:14archivatorOr I could use the configure method. That basically leaves all the talking to bash. Will try it now.
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16:05:10archivatorNope, no way to get a shell to execute that. Right now it stops at the first | ..
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16:24:19jamiemhello :)
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16:27:29jamiemI have a 4th Gen iPod classic which I am using Rockbox (r19569-081223) on. I use an iTrip for music in the car and while connecting the iTrip boots the iPod and invokes Rockbox, it does not charge the battery at the same time. When I hold down MENU to boot into iTunes own firmware the iTrip is definitely charging it. Rockbox Info does not show "Battery: Charging" instead say 88% 6hr remaining
16:27:40jamiemis this a known bug / limitation / feature? :)
16:29:48gartraljamiem: first off, upgrade it and see if that helps
16:30:00jamiemgartral: cvs?
16:30:34gartraljamian, theres a page on the site with all the builds
16:30:50*jamiem looks
16:31:34gartrallook under current build
16:31:56gevaertsThe easiest way is to use rbutil to install a current build
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16:33:34gevaertsgartral: were there changes that make you expect improvements in charging?
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16:33:47archivatorHow do I get rbutil to spit out qDebug() messages?
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16:33:59*gevaerts points out that r19569 is not a random old build, it's 3.1
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16:34:29*gartral didn't notice that
16:35:27n1swe should try to get a proper version number in 3.2
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16:35:47gevaertsYes. 3.0 had one, but that step was missed for 3.1
16:35:52jamiemso
16:35:59jamiemI have r20192-090303
16:36:06*jamiem goes to car in rain to test :)
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16:40:43jamiemwell that was pretty straightforward
16:40:47jamiemthanks guys :)
16:41:24gevaertsit works now?
16:42:04jamiemseemingly
16:42:09jamiemit says "charging"
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16:43:35jamiemooh
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16:43:40jamiem"car adaptor mode"
16:43:42*jamiem reads wiki
16:45:20jamiemaha. I don't think my cigarette lighter is ignition switched; but I could always run a tap from something that is
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16:48:23jamiemcool
16:48:36jamiemthis version uses Rockbox's own USB connection, too
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16:50:03archivatorjamiem: this is a good summary of what's happened since 3.1: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/MajorChanges
16:50:16jamiemthanks
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17:10:56gartralmy e250 wont take a full charge under rockbox, but will under the OF
17:12:40kadobangartral: i'm sure rockbox is quite conservative when it comes to stopping charging (for safety), are you sure it's not just that?
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17:13:34Lloreangartral: Have you actually compared battery voltages when both have stopped charging, or are you just looking at the little % meter?
17:13:43gartralit more than likly is, but it does make a small impact on overall runtimes
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17:14:18gartralno, ive mad comparisons with the battery section of the debug list
17:14:19gibbon_i experienced the same symptoms on my c250 but discovered that there was no noticable runtime difference
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17:16:07gartrali would do a set of battery benchmarks, if you dont mind waiting three days for the result :\
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17:25:25gartralalright, nvm, i figured out my problem, i had it plugged into an unpowered hub like a moron
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17:30:00pondlifeBigBambi: Hopefully #8944 is now fixed, but feel free to test anyway.
17:31:12BigBambipondlife: righto
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17:40:51StephaneAuberttest
17:40:56jamiemicles
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17:41:34StephaneAuberti don't know what is IRC... it seems to be a "tchat"
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17:41:55gibbon_StephaneAubert: success.
17:42:39StephaneAubertso, i would to edit a web page [http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/CFModGuide] => please could you help me ? please
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17:43:53StephaneAuberti have a video tutorial and i want to give the url on the web page [http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/CFModGuide]
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17:46:49gibbon_StephaneAubert: if there is noone around with the power and will to give you write permission on the wiki, i guess you are out of luck for now
17:48:09rasherStephaneAubert: I take it your wiki name is StephaneAubert?
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17:48:58StephaneAuberti don't understand, on the page ther is a "edit" function => How ask permission ? Who gives permission ?
17:49:42kadobanStephaneAubert: rasher does if you answer his question(s), i assume
17:49:51StephaneAubertrasher => YES
17:51:16StephaneAuberti would just give information (video) about the CF installation on a IRIVER H320
17:52:39StephaneAubertsorry for my "poor" English language ;o)
17:54:31StephaneAubertOK, i must quit... bye
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18:07:34archivatorBagder: do you do voice files for all languages or just English?
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18:13:32pixelmaonly english is available for download. I also doubt you will find (free) voices for all languages and some still have english voice strings, if nothing's changed in the meantime. It would also be a huge amount of files as voice files are target specific.
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18:15:15archivatorpixelma: there _are_ free voices for quite a few languages. I even have a clustergen one for Macedonian. Swedish is on the list too. I was actually wondering if festival handled anything other than english..
18:17:27pixelmasure, I build swedish voice files too sometimes with espeak, but have a look at the list of languages although some are quite outdated
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18:19:52archivatorI know, I know, I'm just saying it's not as unthinkable as you make it look..
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18:23:05Bagder"only" 27 english zip files, yes
18:23:16Bagderand only one voice
18:23:21Bagderand only one engine
18:23:42Bagderthere's a bazillion of combinations someone _could_ do
18:24:24BUMBACL0Tany grado fans here?
18:24:53LambdaCalculus37This channel is only for Rockbox development talk.
18:25:20BUMBACL0Tppsh
18:27:02archivatorBagder: thanks for the info.
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18:30:58pixelmawhich reminds me: were the settings for the FM/V2 Recorders changed to get smaller voice files? If I remember correctly there were reports that the 3.1 voices are too big for the 3.1 rockbox on those
18:31:22BagderI don't think anything was adjusted due to that discussion
18:31:45Bagderor maybe I missed it
18:32:39pixelmaaha, we should at least get it right for 3.2 me thinks
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18:33:13Bagderyeah, we can also play with options to squeeze them more
18:33:17Bagderbbl
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18:37:22pixelmayeah, I believe the "max files in dir" settings was a candidate for this - needs a lot of RAM and is set to a quite high amount
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18:39:02pixelmahmm, misread. Yes options like quality and speed for can give smaller voice files. And there are ways to reclaim a bit of RAM
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18:56:51n1sthe voice clips are duplicated for some things due to the sysfont strings so getting rid of those would help a bit too
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19:02:23rasherI expect setting speed in Festival involves unholy amounts of Scheme
19:02:47archivatorEither that, or XML.
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19:11:59kugelbertrik: double-semicolon is cool, isn
19:12:03kugel't it?
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19:13:32bertrikkugel, I have no particular feelings toward that
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19:14:19kugelbertrik: just saying, you added one in firmware/drivers/generic_i2c.c
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19:18:47bertrikok a minor bug indeed, but totally harmless
19:19:37kugelI know :)
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20:29:52Lloreankugel: What's the reasoning why "Skip length" should not be allowed to end tracks?
20:30:14LloreanIt's really not good to say "there's a very good reason not to fix this" without at least saying what the reason is.
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20:34:46kugelLlorean: Ask sdoyon. He can explain it better.
20:35:34kugelI don't agree with him, but I can understand his points
20:36:37kugelI'm not sure if I can just publicise his emails
20:36:41LloreanYou said that you think we shouldn't change it because of his reasons. That's "agreeing with him"
20:36:55pixelmaI could *imagine* one - you can't skip back across track borders (in general). So in case you accidentally skip forward instead of back in a time frame that means you skip to the next track then you'll have a problem if you want to skip back to somewhere in the end of the previous track. I don't use the setting so maybe I'm wrong
20:37:18pixelmaif it really advances one track I mean
20:37:29***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:37:31kugelNo, that's because he made this feature. And I'm not one of the guys who just changes things that people intended in the stuff they made if they cannot live with it
20:37:32Lloreanpixelma: Yes, but as it is currently "skip" just does nothing if you're less than "skip length" from the end of the track.
20:38:20Lloreanpixelma: We don't prevent people from fast forwarding to the end of tracks, etc. if we want to implement "skip prevention" it should be a separate feature.
20:38:30kugelIt's his very intention to lock the track, at both borders
20:38:52Lloreankugel: But that doesn't mean that's how it should be implemented in Rockbox. His idea was _much_ disliked originally and has been significantly changed since thhe
20:38:53Lloreanthen
20:39:02kugelYes, I suppose skip prevention could be a seperate setting
20:39:02LloreanFeatures don't "belong" to the person who made the first commit in working on it.
20:39:25LloreanThe feature is named "skip length", which means it should work _exactly_ like skipping normally does other than skipping a length instead of a whole track.
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20:40:22LloreanAs it stands, you can set "repeat 1" or have a single song playlist if you really don't want to start the next song, meanwhile the way the feature works now makes it practically unusable for any purpose other than his own personal one.
20:40:52fmlHe-he, couldn't we let the player jump to the end of the previous track in "skip" mode?
20:41:38fmlI.e. imagine that all the songs in the playlist are a long continuous song.
20:41:51LloreanSeeking doesn't work like that.
20:41:55LloreanTrack ends are track ends.
20:42:03kugelLlorean: that doesn't solve his problems though. He wants to prevent skipping the song, as well as jumping to the beginning
20:42:21Lloreankugel: Then he can run a modified build for himself, rather than making the feature so focused as to be hard to use for anyone else.
20:42:26kugelwhich is meant to aid against accidental skips and blind users
20:42:35LloreanBlind users *can* skip back and seek.
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20:42:45LloreanRight now, sighted users can't leave the song without going and changing a variety of settings.
20:42:53LloreanRight now, the feature is "restrictive" rather than "allowing"
20:43:24LloreanIf he thinks there should be skip protection, it should be a separate feature to prevent people from seeking out of a track, and allow them to rewind "inward" from the end of the track.
20:43:41LloreanBut "Skip Length" should _just_ be a setting for defining skip length.
20:43:48kugelI'm happy if there's a seperate setting for skip prevention. I guess I wouldn't prevent someone else from fixing this
20:43:55kugeltoo
20:44:00*BigBambi think it should skip out of tracks too, and skip lock should be separate
20:44:01pixelmathat's how "repeat 1" works currently...
20:44:25kugelno, with repeat 1 you end up at the beginning of the song
20:44:37Lloreankugel: The problem is, you basically said "I don't think this should be changed, but I'm not going to tell any of you why" in the forums.
20:44:51kugelsong/{audiobooks,podcasts,...} (the latter seems to be his main usecase)
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20:45:36kugelLlorean: Well, I'm not opposed to telling you why he doesn't want to have it broken (it will be broken in his point of view)
20:45:44LloreanI use my MP3 player at least half the time for audiobooks, and it's still nice to be able to actually _leave_ chapters by skipping.
20:45:56Lloreankugel: The feature is named "Skip Length". It's *not* the study mode feature he has in his head.
20:46:38LloreanWe don't prevent accidental skipping normally, I don't see why this is a special case.
20:47:09pixelmamaybe take it to the ML - he seems to read it (or at least did so before)
20:47:50kugelLlorean: And I said "I think we should come up with a better compromise", not that we leave it unchanged
20:48:33Lloreankugel: Whether or not we add skip protection, skip length still needs to be fixed.
20:48:48LloreanYou basically said "I don't think we should do anything until we can address his use case" since you said you feel a compromise is necessary.
20:48:57LloreanBut you didn't explain to the people who want change *why* their change is bad for others.
20:49:36LloreanThat's what I'm complaining here about - when communicating with users if you tell them you think we shouldn't do what they want done, you need to tell them who would be hurt by their proposed changes and why, not just say "I don't think we should do it the way you described" and not explain anything
20:49:47kugelI have to go now. Again, I'm very happy if the tracklock is a seperate thing, so that I can actually use skip length too
20:49:48LloreanYou're a developer now, and that means actually explaining things when communicating with the user base.
20:50:09LloreanSo I'd like if it you'd go back and either edit the post, or at least respond with an explanation as to your reasoning.
20:50:19kugelOk, will do
20:50:24LloreanThanks
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21:07:55rasherAm I the only one who doesn't get a rockboxui when compiling the sim?
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21:09:30rasherOh no wonder, the compile failed
21:09:36rasherIgnore me
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21:15:30Akallabethgood evening all
21:16:23Akallabethgood evening all
21:16:40linuxstbAkallabeth: If you have a question, just ask - this isn't a social channel...
21:17:19Akallabethyeah i've read it just
21:17:28The-CompilerBagder, linuxstb, (maybe more?), Akallabeth is one of the organisators of the GnuPingu Linux meet and drink, where I proposed the DevCon 09 to be held (if you want to do so of course), thus she's here
21:17:58bluebrotherThe-Compiler: where's that taking place?
21:18:09The-Compilerbluebrother: would be in Zurich, Switzerland
21:18:10linuxstbThe-Compiler: Then I guess a good evening is in order ;)
21:18:37LloreanI'm not sure if DevCon should be held concurrently with some other event since in part it's a "lock us all in a room until something good comes out of it" type situation. :)
21:18:38The-Compilerand I posted that on the mailing list and didn't get any answer yet ;)
21:19:10The-CompilerLlorean: that wouldn't be a problem either, the meeting is twice a month and we've enough rooms anyway :)
21:19:26AkallabethThe-Compiler: right
21:20:12AkallabethLlorean: if you like to have organise a devcon for you, and you ask gnupingu for that, we will organise it for you
21:20:25LloreanThe-Compiler: Ah, I didn't see the email so I was thinking this was more of a "once every X amount of time" not-so-often thing.
21:20:35Akallabeththat is then a devcon, not mergert with other event
21:20:37LloreanAre you sure the email got through to the list? I try to read all of them.
21:21:09LloreanI've been a bit busy though, so sometimes I just glance at one, think "I'm not involved in that" and mark it read after a quick glance.
21:21:30The-Compileruhm, maybe I'm even blocked there because my mailserver accedentally responded "test" to all mails for some time >.<
21:21:56LloreanThat might be why you got no responses. You can check the mailing list archives at the website to see if yours got through.
21:22:07rasherI don't see it in the archives
21:22:12bluebrotherwhich list was this sent to? -dev?
21:22:26The-Compileryup
21:22:28*gevaerts also didn't see it
21:22:48The-CompilerI'll quickly put it in a pastebin
21:22:51rasherhttp://www.rockbox.org/mail/archive/rockbox-dev-archive-2009-02/index.shtml#52
21:23:27The-CompilerI responded at the 21st of February
21:23:38LloreanThe archive shows no responses to it at all
21:24:06*Llorean definitely wouldn't mind another trip to Switzerland, but thinks it's unlikely he'll be travelling this summer.
21:24:26*gevaerts certainly wouldn't object to a devcon in Switzerland
21:24:31The-Compilerhttp://pastebin.com/m2680ef6
21:27:16The-Compilerbut as said, if you rather want to be alone and not want to get disturbed, that wouldn't be any problem either
21:27:21bluebrotherThe-Compiler: I find it quite confusing that the mail on the top isn't quoted properly
21:27:28The-Compilerbut at least I will be there :P
21:27:33The-Compilerbluebrother: huh?
21:27:48bluebrotherin the pastebin that is
21:28:11The-Compilerbluebrother: at the top there's Linus' mail (fully quoted or isn't it?), then mine
21:28:52bluebrotherwell, that mail isn't quoted −− it doesn't contain quoting characters ;-)
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21:29:34bluebrotherbut I haven't got the mail either so I guess it has been blocked
21:31:48*BigBambi neither!
21:32:29The-Compilerbluebrother: huh, first it's the complete mail of linus in the file, then = signs, then my answer, including a small quote of linus' one
21:33:35bluebrotherwell, I expect the first unquoted text in a mail to be of the sender, unless otherwise marked. Thus I find that confusing.
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21:56:08Lloreanlinuxstb, amiconn, Bagder, LinusN, ping. We actually have a "project policy' question that's come up.
21:57:06linuxstbLlorean: Isn't that best handled with an email to the committers list? i.e. the RSB should just step in when there is no concensus amongst contributors?
21:57:20*Bagder agrees
21:57:31LloreanWell, a bunch of committers suggested the RSB should "sign off" on it.
21:57:46LloreanBut an email works for me.
21:57:54rasherMaybe there should be a discussion first
21:57:55LloreanExpect one in a few moments
21:58:05BigBambiI don't think it can hurt to go to the list first so everybody has the chance to see it
21:58:25gevaertsIt's not as if this needs to be decided within the next ten minutes
21:58:38bluebrotherit does not? ;-)
21:58:56gevaertsNo. Half an hour is plenty!
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21:59:20BigBambilet's split the difference - 20 minutes OK for everyone?
21:59:34*bluebrother decides to leave for ten minutes or so then
22:00
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22:04:24archivatorGood news, I have basic festival integration in rbutil.
22:04:48archivatorworking.
22:04:52archivatorI have it working.
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22:05:22Bagdernice!
22:05:32archivatorIt needs a lot of polishing (not exactly user-friendly atm) and more config options but it works. I'll have a FS patch by the end of the week.
22:05:39Bagderdid anyone try the recent voice files yet?
22:05:43LloreanCross platform, or linux-only for the moment?
22:05:44 Quit fml ("CGI:IRC")
22:06:03LloreanAlso, one week until feature freeze, right?
22:06:07linuxstbarchivator: How is it integrated? rbutil calling an external binary, or actually linking the code into rbutil?
22:06:10 Quit stripwax (Client Quit)
22:06:22archivatorLlorean: linux-only. I'm not sure if I can get festival to run in server mode in Windows (would need elevated rights)
22:06:44Lloreanarchivator: We already require elevated rights for bootloader installs on certain players.
22:06:53LloreanMaybe rbutil should just have the flag to always request them.
22:07:01archivatorlinuxstb: similarly to the other TTS engines. It starts festival as a server, configures it directly and then uses festival_client
22:07:08linuxstbHmm, not ideal...
22:07:56linuxstbAccording to this page, it's available as a C++ library - http://www.cstr.ed.ac.uk/projects/festival/
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22:08:00archivatorLlorean: not exactly user-friendly. We'll think of something..
22:08:51archivatorlinuxstb: festival is written in Scheme. There is an API that can communicate on a higher level with the engine but I don't think that would any faster than the current solution..
22:08:51pixelmaBagder: did you compare voice file sizes? If the tts engine/voice is able to produce a better and less noisy sound it could be that voice file sizes get smaller if the result is better to compress
22:09:17archivator*would be
22:09:19Bagderno I didn't... but I can
22:10:27Bagderthe new ones are slightly bigger
22:10:40Bagderby like 20K or so
22:10:44gevaertsThe-Compiler, Akallabeth: on a practical point, would there be a latest time we'd have to get out of the building? Last time (in Berlin) we tended to stay until 2 or 3 AM
22:11:34Akallabeth?
22:11:51linuxstbarchivator: The page I linked said it's written in C++ - "The system is written in C++ and uses the Edinburgh Speech Tools Library for low level architecture and has a Scheme (SIOD) based command interpreter for control." Is that not right?
22:12:06The-Compilergevaerts: theoreticallt the security people would come at midnight or so but I'm pretty sure we can easly talk to them and get the permission to stay longer
22:14:15linuxstbarchivator: http://www.cstr.ed.ac.uk/projects/festival/manual/festival_28.html#SEC132
22:14:22pixelmaBagder: pity. I'd prefer the other way round
22:14:43archivatorlinuxstb: it's part of the truth. I guess the system _is_ written in c++ - that's the interactive shell, server and client. In reality, that Scheme engine does all the heavy lifting, based on a bunch of .scm files in /usr/share/festival . It's Scheme behind a C++ mask.
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22:15:59archivatorlinuxstb: yes, exactly. You'd still need the voice files and the .scm commands and whatnot. I don't want to be the one debugging a misconfig.
22:17:03archivatorBesides, the voices we ( Bagder and I) use are >100 MB each. I don't want that in a Qt resource file ...
22:17:39gevaertsI've only been to the Berlin one, so maybe it was an exception. Midnight sounds a bit early to me personally, but maybe that's just me :) Anyway, I certainly think we should consider this
22:18:10Bagdergevaerts: it's been similar to that every time
22:19:39pixelmathe difference that I see to Stockholm is that there you could, if you wanted, stay in the same building all the time, even sleep there (as there were showers etc.)
22:19:56archivatorlinuxstb: the only truly embeddable tts engine is flite but it has its own format for the voices. I also think it doesn't support any of the more complex festival engines...
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22:20:53soapRegarding FS #8802. What are the consequences of attempting to charge from an unpowered hub or a charger with a sub 500 mA rating? I assume in the case of the charger you risk damage to the charger? In the case of the hub I'm not sure I understand what the potential damage is. Also, IIRC Rockbox did use to charge from dumb chargers (on my iPod video). Was this "non compliant" charging which would have had the same issues as described in dreamlayers' 20
22:21:41BigBambisoap: You got cut off at "described in dreamlayers' 20"
22:22:38gevaertsThe-Compiler: are you subscribed to the -dev mailing list? IIRC it drops mails from non-subscribers
22:23:43soapas described in dreamlayers' 2009-02-18 comment, or was Rockbox doing something different (safe?) then?
22:24:40Lloreangevaerts: I'm pretty sure both MLs ignore mails from non-subscribers.
22:24:56Bagderthey do indeed
22:25:10Bagdermercilessly
22:25:24Lloreansoap: I *believe* that if you request 500 from something that won't provide it, and it's a hub/port and not a charger, you may fail to connect for file transfer as well. I seem to remember that being the problem for H300s
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22:26:18gevaertssoap: several things can happen : things may work right, you can get your power cut off (hubs with overcurrent protection), you get bad power (an unpowered hub is only allowed to get 500mA for itself, so if it has four ports all with devices on them, you have to share), or things catch fire
22:26:43soap2.5 W is a fire hazard?
22:28:24gevaertsProbably not, but you could in theory fry some electronics I guess
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22:31:33gevaertssoap: the USB stack has a function that tells you how much you're allowed to use (usb_allowed_current()). If no usb connection is detected I think it's safe to assume that you're either connected to a hub that always provides power for charging (those exist), or a dedicated charger. 500mA should be safe in those cases
22:32:36Lloreangevaerts: Is it negotiated. Like, can it request 500 and be refused, or do you just say "I expect 500, deal with it" when you want 500?
22:33:10bluebrotherarchivator: nice, looking forward to see your patch
22:33:15soapok, gevaerts, that comment makes sense standing on its own. How does that relate to the concerns expressed at the end of FS #8802, though?
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22:33:41bluebrotherLlorean: rbutil always requests elevation on vista −− doing so during bootloader installation only would require to use vista specific APIs
22:33:56bluebrotherhaven't checked but I bet those aren't available in MinGW yet.
22:34:15Lloreanbluebrother: Ah, I thought it didn't request elevation at all and had to manually be run as administrator. I seem to recall a lot of people needing to be told to run as admin.
22:34:27LloreanMaybe I'm thinking of Linux users only, though\
22:34:34gevaertssoap: I think the "*experimental*" bit takes care of that. This is just charging code, it's not fully and properly integrated yet
22:34:34gevaertsLlorean: you request 500mA, which can be refused
22:34:40bluebrotheryou have that issue on xp as there is no elevation here.
22:35:55*bluebrother should get around of implementing startup checks
22:36:06bluebrotherhmm, missed domonoky again :(
22:36:13Lloreangevaerts: Is a refusal explicit, or is refusal just it not doing anything?
22:36:16soapI think I must not be phrasing my questions well, gevaerts, because I don't see how that answered what I was attempting to ask at all. :) Let me think about how to rephrase the question.
22:37:32***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:37:54soapOr were you saying (in effect) "IF dreamlayers' charging code looked at usb_allowed-current it would probably be safe."?
22:39:03gevaertsLlorean: it's mostly not doing anything. A USB device can have several "configurations", each of which specifies how much power it needs. On enumeration the host enables a specific configuration. Before that you're not fully enumerated, and you're restricted to 100mA (as well as not working). In practice all OSes use the first configuration unfortunately, so you can't use this to let the OS choose
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22:39:17gevaertssoap: that's it, yes
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22:41:31JdGordon|Llorean: re the name thing... maybe using a nick like "rockbox dev group" instead of just "rockbox" would be better?
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22:42:34Bagderor just posting as an individual, mentioning that "the dev group" stands behind the statement
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22:43:49Llorean"After discussion with the committers and the steering board, the general agreement was..."
22:44:13JdGordon|there is a small problem about where the discussion was though... even if it was entirely agreement
22:44:36LloreanHow so?
22:45:26JdGordon|its not public... unless it hapened here also?
22:46:31bluebrotherwhy is that a problem?
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22:47:16*bluebrother just sent an email on the topic
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22:48:00Lloreanbluebrother: I did try to suggest a couple alternative names in my original text too. :)
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22:48:18JdGordon|apart from us trying to be open about everything here (logs, ml archive etc)... you can really say everyone is in agreement unless you can actually point to the discussion
22:48:39The-CompilerLlorean, Bagder, linuxstb: Back to the devcon, I think I found a even better location, in Zurich too. You have beamers, a bar, cooking plates, may stay as long as you wish, basically everything you want (could please someone post this on the ml for me until I've fixed my mail problem? Thanks in advance.)
22:49:04The-CompilerIt's called Cave Germinal btw ;)
22:49:13rasherThe-Compiler: Are you subscribed to the list?
22:49:34bluebrotherLlorean: I noticed, though I though of being more explicit. As in having a short list ;-)
22:50:00bluebrotherThe-Compiler: is there a website of that place?
22:50:19The-Compilerrasher: I am, I recieve mails but mine don't seem to come trough
22:50:21*gevaerts points bluebrother to google :)
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22:50:55The-Compilerhttp://www.cavegerminal.org/ ;)
22:51:11bluebrotherbah, too easy ;-)
22:51:18The-Compilerrespectively let google or me translate it ;)
22:51:21Bagderpretty useless site though
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22:52:14*JdGordon| wonders if the "powered by" tag line is trademarked
22:52:23Lloreanbluebrother: A list wouldn't be bad, no.
22:52:46*bluebrother understands the language on that site though he dislikes the swiss spelling at times
22:53:43bluebrotherfrom the front page: you can hire the Cave
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23:00
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23:37:49preglow3
23:38:01preglowyes, that's what i meant to say
23:39:06linuxstbOK, I'll bite... Why?
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23:39:27preglowa completely flawed and failed tab-to-another-irc-channel attempt
23:39:32preglowwith premature enter keying
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23:43:29*jhMikeS waves to preglow O/ (since he's rarely seen)
23:44:09preglowhey
23:45:46gevaertsI think we should keep the .elf and .map files for the last ten builds or so, as well as for the releases
23:46:04preglowwould be immensly useful
23:46:33rasherIs the .map useful on its own?
23:46:41rasherThat could easily be included in the zips
23:47:01gevaertsthe problem with .map is that it doesn't have static functions
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23:47:47gevaertsAlso, if you have the full .elf you can disassemble if needed and see exactly where it goes wrong
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23:48:36jhMikeSpreglow: hello! (before you disappear again)
23:48:39preglowsee no reason not to store the full .elf
23:48:51preglowjhMikeS: don't worry, i do follow logs if someone talks to me :>
23:49:03gevaertsthe only possible reason I see is bandwidth for the build servers
23:49:19gevaertswe may also want codec .elf files
23:49:23rasherYeah, I was talking about adding the .map to the zips, in addition to this. So when pepole show up with a random build, at least there's *something*
23:49:28preglowgevaerts: why? it's not like we'd be bundling the .elf files with downloads
23:49:48preglowi was thinking more like storing server side so they can be retrieved by devs for a specific build when a user has a problem
23:50:10linuxstbThat would still need the build servers to send them back to the master.
23:50:15gevaertspreglow: sure, rockbox.org server side. They are generated on the build servers :)
23:50:16preglowoh, yes
23:50:17preglowthat's true
23:50:20preglowvery true
23:50:52gevaertsIf we only do rockbox.elf I think it would add about 10..15% to the size. No idea about codecs and/or plugins
23:51:07preglowis this bandwidth already an issue?
23:51:28 Quit JdGordon| ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
23:52:02gevaertsI don't think it's a hard issue. Some build servers are spending a significant amount of time uploading zips instead of building though
23:53:00preglowbut the benefits would be great
23:53:21gevaertsyes. I think the benefits outweigh the costs
23:53:30preglowi think upload time shouldn't be such a concern unless they were to balloon by factors greater than this
23:53:36 Quit midijunkie (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:53:41preglowoh, how many times haven't i wished for something like this
23:54:14preglowi had one dude send me his rockbox.iriver, which i disassembled with objdump in order to recognize the spot where it went wrong
23:54:37preglowwasn't as fast as it could have been :P
23:55:25gevaertssounds like fun :)
23:56:20preglowwasn't as hard as it could have been, tho, was emac code
23:56:25preglowwhich isn't everywhere
23:56:33jhMikeSpreglow: that's a bit of an act of self-sacrifice in my book for a "this guy" :)
23:56:44preglowjhMikeS: oh, that's me in a nutshell! :D
23:56:53 Quit ender` (" Is there like a way to put a compiler in "Just trust me on that one" mode?")
23:57:08preglowi do tend to go to some lengths to find out what's wrong in my own code
23:57:14preglowso i don't need to think about it
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