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#rockbox log for 2009-03-04

00:01:15preglownot enough to port sv8
00:01:22preglowany rockbox work i do now will be d2
00:01:38preglowand i need some motivation even for that
00:01:56preglowi hate being stuck
00:02:01*Seed kicks preglow's ass :)
00:02:21 Join avis [0] (n=ident@pdpc/supporter/student/avis)
00:02:30preglowSeed: hey, we have goddamn buschel himself working on rockbox now, you know who to nag :P
00:02:31*jhMikeS holds preglow steadily in the foot vector
00:02:50 Quit MethoS-- (Connection timed out)
00:02:53SeedI nag and the dude doesn't read mail.. it'll come to a noisy phone call soon
00:03:00preglowa warraned one
00:03:03preglowwarranted too
00:03:07*jhMikeS understand about being attached to a target all too well
00:03:07Seedthanks for paying attention to us anyway
00:03:26 Part pyro_maniac
00:03:37preglowin a perfect world, given tons of time, i'd definitely port sv8
00:03:41preglowbut no, it's not like that
00:03:50Seedthe world is perfect
00:04:15preglowbribes will also make the world look more perfect temporarily
00:04:25preglowsay, two crates of belgian beer might lighten my outlook
00:04:27jhMikeSkarma is accelerating too (just a warning) :)
00:04:45gevaertsSome numbers : for e200 rockbox.zip is 2841438 bytes. bzip2-ed rockbox.elf is 331279 bytes, codec .elf are 607992 bytes and plugin .elf are 1071316 bytes
00:05:31preglowthat is quite a bit
00:05:34 Quit nibbler (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:05:54preglowthe plugin ones i would say we can live without, if it's an issue
00:06:03preglowbtw
00:06:15preglowit would be possible to decouple the uploading of the .elfs from the uploading of the binaries
00:06:20preglowbut that would of course add compliexity
00:06:26preglowcomplexity too...
00:06:45 Join midijunkie [0] (n=Miranda@pD9547677.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
00:06:50gevaertsIt would gain some speed, but the main thing I'm worried about is total bandwidth. For people with caps this is a lot
00:07:08rasherAre people with caps running build servers?
00:07:17*linuxstb re-suggests that we don't waste build server time transferring the 2MB unifont in every zip...
00:07:31*gevaerts is, except the cap isn't enforced
00:07:33jhMikeSdo elfs compress well (I'm guessing this stuff is sent plain)?
00:07:46pixelmalinuxstb: not in every ;)
00:07:58linuxstbpixelma: Damn you archos users...
00:08:27linuxstb;) (btw)
00:08:46preglowlinuxstb: wut?
00:08:46pixelmathere are also non-archos targets without it (without UniCatcher)
00:08:52preglowi thought fonts were their own zip
00:09:00Seedone more email to buschel and then plenty of beer to Norway
00:09:22preglowi'll start coding as soon as i'm through recovering from delirium tremens
00:09:27gevaertsjhMikeS: uncompressed we're talking about 10MB total. Compressed (bz2) about 2MB
00:09:30linuxstbpreglow: They were, but recently kugel changed that to include all fonts for shipped themes...
00:09:46preglowi don't like the shipped themes
00:09:49preglowinclude one
00:09:53preglowpackage the rest in a zip
00:09:59 Quit CaptainKwel ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
00:10:06preglowas in, i don't like that they're bundled like they are
00:10:44pixelmayou know, it could be easier if the themes site...
00:10:54preglowoh, that's still not up, is it? :P
00:10:56amiconnCollecting the .elfs sounds like overkill to me
00:11:13amiconnThe .map files are certainly more important
00:11:18preglowstatic functions
00:11:20gevaertsZipped fonts (still e200) take about 650kb
00:11:29amiconnYou can still disassemble the binary
00:11:36pixelmalinuxstb: not entirely kugel's change. It was in there before but didn't work properly
00:11:42amiconn...and compare with the .map
00:12:07preglowand still have hell trying to identify static functions
00:12:26linuxstbpixelma: IMO it worked properly... i.e. it was what I thought the feature was meant to do.
00:12:30 Join stripwax [0] (n=Miranda@87-194-34-169.bethere.co.uk)
00:13:20 Quit stripwax (Client Quit)
00:14:01pixelmawell - you said you wanted it to include only the one needed for the default theme. But it already included some more (there was a difference whether a font was specically referenced for a certain screen resolution or not.
00:14:06pixelma)
00:14:19jhMikeSgevaerts: so it's 2MB for a single build? as big as the zipped build itself. is every bit of the .elf needed or could the most important info just be extraced?
00:14:30amiconnlinuxstb: It may have worked (by chance) like you expected, but it certainly didn't work as intended
00:14:56 Join stripwax [0] (n=Miranda@87-194-34-169.bethere.co.uk)
00:15:27pixelmaunifont was one that was not included before and which makes a major difference
00:17:33gevaertsjhMikeS: yes, it would nearly double the size. I suppose we could get most of the advantage from just objdump −−syms (i.e. addresses of *all* symbols, not just the non-static ones) at a fraction of the size
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00:18:10gevaertsTotal objdump −−syms output for this same build (all .elf files together) is 956783 bytes, or 141829 bzip2-ed
00:18:29*amiconn would suggest 7zip
00:19:11gevaerts151509 with 7zip
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00:19:29 Join pixelma_ [50] (n=pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma)
00:19:29 Quit pixelma (Nick collision from services.)
00:19:30gevaertsThat's 5% of the total zip size.
00:19:36 Quit perrikwp ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
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00:19:58 Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
00:20:04*Llorean thinks that as soon as we get the themes site working we should drop it down to _just_ including the default theme and its one associated font.
00:20:07linuxstbamiconn: That may be the case, but if it did work like you (I assume?) intended, then I would have argued at the time. We've always said that the fonts are a necessary part of a Rockbox install, and simply distribute them separately because they are both a) large; and b) static.
00:20:18gevaertsAt those sizes we could even add them to the .zip IMHO
00:20:26rasherLlorean: I agree.
00:22:15LloreanUntil then, we may as well keep doing what we're doing re fonts and themes because it doesn't matter too much, and what we have now is "the path of least confusion" for users, I think
00:22:29pixelmalinuxstb: I believe that was discussed when saratoga did his changes to let cabbiev2 be included and loaded as default theme, not sure of its outcome
00:23:13preglowso, what's the outlook on that theme site?
00:23:34pixelmaI think it's also weird to have shipped themes that don't work properly, but I can see both sides
00:23:35rasherpreglow: There's some stuff in an SVN module, but it needs more work still
00:24:27pixelmas/is/would be
00:24:31amiconnlinuxstb: As intended by wpsbuild.pl code, not by me. I just contributed to the fix that kugel started
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00:25:38amiconnI know we used to say fonts are separate, but later decided on a default theme that requires an on-disk font and other support files
00:26:44amiconnWe also have a bunch of themes in SVN, which I'd prefer to stay there (and in the distribution) until the theme site goes online
00:27:47amiconnWe could make them a separate package, but that would mean a whole bunch of packages. The old font package was universal - theme packages are target specific
00:28:38rasherI don't think there's any point in changing things until there's a theme site
00:29:29linuxstbI agree that once a themes site is available we should remove those themes - I just think that we never shipped those fonts for over a year, so there was no need to change to include them.
00:30:12LloreanProbably not
00:30:15linuxstb(over a year since cabbie became default - I can't remember when the fonts were actually split)
00:30:21LloreanBut now that it's changed, we probably shouldn't change it back.
00:30:33pixelmawe shipped *some* of them already for a while which went through unnoticed it seems
00:30:36LloreanWe're getting wider exposure these days anyway, so it's nice to know people won't have weird theme issues with the included ones.
00:31:02amiconnThe change was *not* specifically to include those fonts - it was to fix a bug that caused files (fonts, backdrops, icons) to be included when they shouldn't and vice versa, i.e. fix a bug in the script
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00:37:34***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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01:00
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01:08:25WyattIs there any ETA on the rockbox twiki being brought back to life?
01:09:05krazykitWyatt, i don't see any problems with it here...
01:09:14*linuxstb neither
01:09:23WyattHuh, I'm getting 403s
01:09:38linuxstb"Forbidden" ?
01:10:35linuxstbWyatt: So for example, you can't access this URL? http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/MajorChanges
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01:11:27WyattHuh, seems to only happen for Konqueror...
01:11:42WyattOkay, that's strange.
01:12:23Unhelpfulworks for me in konqueror
01:12:32 Quit synergst` (Remote closed the connection)
01:12:39WyattWell bloody hell.
01:14:02WyattOkay, interesting. I had "Send identification" unticked in the settings.
01:14:12WyattSwitch that and it works.
01:14:55linuxstbWhat's that ? The browser ID string?
01:15:06WyattAye, that
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01:16:08midgeydoes the live IRC log work in Konquerer?
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01:17:48WyattFirst I've heard of such a beast
01:18:00WyattAppears to.
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01:18:22midgeyhmm, chrome and safari both fail
01:19:00WyattSafari does? Strange, KHTML-based browsers should be fine, I would think...
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01:20:53saratogaFS #9791 - log-today doesn't load in Google Chrome
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01:23:44Seth#rockbox-community
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01:24:35LloreanSounds like the Chrome / Safari issue isn't HTML rendering but how they decide what to try to download
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01:28:14midgeyno, it renders fine
01:31:34midgeysafari just tries to download forever
01:32:09midgeybut in the download archive the actual html renders fine with the browser and refreshes
01:32:23midgeyprobably has to do with the server push feature
01:32:28WyattHas anyone tried using Google's Droid font in rockbox?
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01:36:20rasherWyatt: Vector fonts rarely convert well to raster fonts
01:37:04zevector fonts convert to beautiful raster thousands of times every minute on millions of displays worldwide
01:37:07ze:p
01:37:34rasherLet me rephrase
01:37:55rasherVector fonts rarely convert well to 1-bit raster fonts
01:38:16rasherIt's just not nice, when compared to purpose-built bitmap fonts
01:38:23zeah, makes sense
01:38:38rasherYou might get lucky though
01:38:54LloreanOr you could take the time to convert and then tweak if you _really_ wanted it.
01:39:14WyattWell I sort of figured droid might work well, being made for a small device from the start.
01:39:25stripwaxI may be going crazy, but .. where are the latest bootloader binaries kept (or is the answer 'they're not, build your own from svn'). Was sure they were in the Current Build page on website
01:40:05linuxstbstripwax: That's the answer - they're not kept. Only tested bootloaders are made available for download.
01:40:36rasherWyatt: They're still meant to be rendered with antialiasing
01:41:16linuxstbAlso, 320x480 isn't that small...
01:41:27stripwaxlinuxstb - makes sense, cheers. Was there a recent release of new bootloaders or did I imagine that too?
01:41:50Lloreanstripwax: There are some trial bootloaders on the tracker right now
01:42:14rasherstripwax: For which target?
01:43:16stripwaxipod 5g/64 −− but if they're in the tracker I'll go look, thanks
01:43:50rasherFS #9955
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01:47:21stripwaxrasher - thanks - actually reading that, if behaviour is unchanged for ipods in the new bootloaders then I'll stick with the current one for now
01:47:25WyattHmm. In that case, maybe I should revise my original intent. I'm looking for a clean, sans-serif font with good coverage of the CJK unified ideographs.
01:47:51rasherWyatt: And none of the available ones fit?
01:47:59rasherI think there are some in the tracker, but I'm not sure
01:48:16rasherWyatt: Have you seen rasher.dk/rockbox/fontstats/?">http://rasher.dk/rockbox/fontstats/?
01:49:29 Quit stripwax ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
01:50:25WyattWell, I haven't updated the fonts in about six months, but I recall that I was unable to find one that really worked well for me, before...
01:52:36 Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection)
01:53:07rasherI can't really help you - I'm not a big consumer of fonts. Settled on nimbus a long time ago, since it has all I need and more.
01:53:27WyattWell, we shall see.
01:53:36WyattThanks anyway.
01:53:51Wyatt(and for the link. Interesting chart you got there.)
01:54:10rasherIt should at least make it easier to see which of the current fonts might be worth a look
02:00
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02:16:31__BradCCan someone help me with the rockbox build please? I need to get make to display the commands it's actually using to build rather than "LD wav2wv.rock". Is there an env variable I can supply to get it to give me the entire build process rather than the abbreviated one it displays by default?
02:16:51Unhelpful__BradC: make V=1
02:17:19__BradCsuperb Unhelpful, thanks :)
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02:37:37***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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03:17:31__BradCBagder, I've fixed the fnarfbargle.com build server. Details in E-mail
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04:27:34agaffney21:26 [freenode] DCC SEND from Cheeese [0.0.0.0 port 0]: startkeylogger [0B bytes] requested in channel #rockbox
04:27:40agaffneyo_O
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04:30:32rvvs89I also got this
04:33:09agaffneyit was to the entire channel
04:33:11agaffneyeveryone got it
04:34:05zeand if you were here and don't see a record of it, maybe you wanna check for keylogger processes or something :p
04:37:41***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
04:40:29awake_so if we saw that, does it mean we're fine?
04:40:46zehell if i know
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04:53:30soapwe have a map file for 3.1, eh?
04:54:05soapIf I tell this guy to crash rockbox 3.1 and report the specific Data Abort address it can be looked up, right?
04:54:13saratogai'm not sure, but it'd be pretty easy to make one since we tagged it in SVN
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07:19:52UnhelpfulFS #9919 updated, "stable cache" now works, and i think the whole thing is probably ready, it certainly doesn't perform any *worse* than current pictureflow if started during playback. its dep #9916 might want a name change to avoid confusion, and needs headers added to the new files.
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07:24:17Draftmanhi everybody)
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07:48:55lffor2milliHey I want to see if you guys can help me with a Recording question with rockbox and an ipod 5.5gen
07:50:26lffor2milliI have a roland sp-404 with a line out/line in input I wan to use the line out output via RCA to DOck Connector and Record to an IPod?
07:52:31scorcheyou can record from the line-in on rockbox on the 5th gen ipod if that is what you are asking ;)
07:52:40scorches/from/to
07:52:44Draftmanis it more simply to use a dictaphone on your ipod?
07:54:25lffor2millinah i tried i got a 5.5 the one with the search option when u go to music at least that is what i heard on a website.
07:56:06scorchelffor2milli: which of these do you have? http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1353 (scroll down a bit)
07:56:19lffor2milliI am basically trying to route the audio from a sampler's line out RCA cords and record to my i-pod via a dock connector, i have bought a dock connector to rca cord but I think it may only be line out I don't know if anyone has tried this
07:59:55lffor2milliThe iPod (5th generation late 2006) serial number's last three digits will be one of the following: V9K, V9P, V9M, V9R, V9L, <−−- ends in
08:00
08:00:49lffor2milliI got another one the same but ends in v9m I am thinking I have to mod the dock connector but want to see if that is really the case, and if anyone else has had any experiernce with recording
08:01:55 Nick rocko is now known as gnuguy (n=rocko@c-67-167-117-152.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
08:02:06scorchewell, i dont know which pins your "dock connector to rca cord" uses, but i havent heard any reports that the line-in recording hasnt been working, so..
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08:04:45lffor2millithe pins work when I want to play my ipod, its a NYko -Dock Connector to RCA, it works good as a Line Out when trying to record I get no sound
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08:16:19scorchewell, the line out and line in are different pins on the connector...if it works well as a line out, then your connector is proba......bah
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08:31:29amiconn__BradC: I'm curious what the problem was
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08:32:35__BradCthere was a change made to something in the rockbox build on or around the 2nd of March which appeared to trigger an issue in the version of make that was on that server.. I "fixed" it by upgrading make
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08:33:03amiconnThe change was made by me, that's why I am asking...
08:33:13amiconnWhat version of make was there before?
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08:33:39__BradCthe one that was standard issue in Ubuntu 6.06LTS.. hang on, let me check
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08:35:10__BradCit looks like it was an early beta of 3.81
08:36:30amiconnAh, so it was probably an actual bug in 'make'.
08:37:14__BradCI suspect so.. let me show you what it did *exactly* that caused the linking errors, it had me very puzzled
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08:39:39amiconnI guess it interpreted $+ like $^
08:40:35amiconnI got this very same linking error when fiddling with the build system, until I replaced $^ with $+ for archives (which is necessary)
08:41:06__BradChttp://pastebin.com/m3b9489fd
08:41:45__BradC/home/rbclient/temp/apps/plugins/libplugin.a /home/rbclient/temp/apps/plugins/bitmaps/libpluginbitmaps.a /home/rbclient/temp/apps/codecs/libwavpack.a \ <- this line is missing an additional libplugin.a at the end..
08:41:55amiconnYep, as I suspected.
08:42:38amiconn$^ lists all prerequisites exactly once, while $+ lists them in the order they are specified, even if some are duplicated
08:42:38__BradCGood, good.. as long as A) it's fixed and B) we know what caused it (ie bug in make)
08:43:10__BradCit gave me a long overdue push to upgrade the software on that machine anyway
08:44:00amiconnThis must have been an actual bug and not a missing feature, as the manuals for gnu make 3.80 and 3.79 describe $+ as well.
08:44:31__BradCWell, it was a beta version of make..
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08:45:19*amiconn thinks it's a bit weird that a long term support distro includes beta software...
08:45:42amiconnAnyway, good to know it's fixed :)
08:47:16__BradCyeah, I was going mental trying to figure it out.. while I was there I added the mips toolchain to the machine also.. I've kinda neglected it for a while
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08:52:12MaxHRHello, am thinking of loading rockbox on sansa s250 player (never used RB before), two questions, can rockbox handle the loading in windows, or must I boot to standard firmware? and is ogg or mp3 better to rip to for decent battery life?
08:52:55Unhelpfulok, plugins/lib/buffer_alloc.[ch] have header comments now. going to wait a few more hours for objections/suggestions before commit.
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08:53:50UnhelpfulMaxHR: i believe they're *pretty* close for battery life at the same quality. i think there's a codecs benchmark page on the wiki if you want to have "exact" figures, but the numbers there might not be very current.
08:56:25MaxHRUnhelpful: ok, I have never really used ogg much, is there any benefit for it over lame (quality/size or feature wise)?
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08:57:49Unhelpfulquality/size is a bit better
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08:59:22MaxHRI am thinking for ripping at highest setting btw
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09:04:54linuxstbRockbox's mp3 decoder is faster than its vorbis decoder, so you will probably get longer battery life with mp3. Recent tests show 22 hours for mp3, 18 hours for vorbis - http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SansaRuntime (look at the bottom for the most recent tests)
09:07:25linuxstbMaxHR: And yes, you can copy files to it in Rockbox - that feature was added a week or so ago - so you need a "current build" of Rockbox, not the last release (v3.1)
09:09:04MaxHRrighton! I will try loading it in the morning and play around, am looking forward to having gapless playback for albums, as the stock fw doesn't do that
09:09:54MaxHRthx and goodnight :) bb after testing
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10:20:57linuxstbUnhelpful: I'm just looking briefly at your buffering patch - what's the purpose of global_context ? Couldn't that just be local to buffer_alloc.c ?
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10:30:34linuxstbUnhelpful: Or maybe better - just make the plugin using the library declare the buffer context struct. I don't like the way it hides that with macros.
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10:35:45planetbeing_n1s: I was just looking through random logs. You said 4G nano uses S5L8720?? o.O
10:37:14n1splanetbeing: not sure but the firmware files contain "S5L8720 Secure Boot0" strings in multiple places
10:37:29planetbeing_Really?
10:37:30planetbeing_Wow.
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10:37:47planetbeing_That's very interesting.
10:38:11n1sand someone figured out how to get into the DFU mode on it
10:38:27planetbeing_We've got a copy of what is supposedly called the Secure ROM of the thing on the iPod touch, at least.
10:38:30n1sany tips on fun things to try?
10:39:01n1sis that ROM decrypted?
10:39:10planetbeing_My original theory is that Apple would've ordered a bunch of these things with all the same bootrom, but that must not be true, because I think iPod touch uses different firmware formats.
10:39:14planetbeing_The ROM isn't encrypted.
10:39:50planetbeing_The ROM handles DFU mode and/or loading a next stage bootloader from the NOR flash.
10:39:51n1sthat's nice, can it be downloaded from somewhere?
10:40:18planetbeing_It's floating around... Let me try to find a copy on Google first.
10:40:56planetbeing_I'm not sure how helpful it will be to you though.
10:41:25planetbeing_It's all bound around parsing, checking and decrypting this file format that's called Img3 that's used on the iPhone and iPod touch.
10:41:37planetbeing_I don't suppose you guys have seen that fourcc?
10:42:36markunplanetbeing_: hi there! you are the iphone-linux guy, right?
10:42:53n1sno, the format for the nano seems to be similar to the classic etc
10:43:13planetbeing_markun: Yup.
10:43:31planetbeing_n1s: have you guys seen iTunes send anything to the iPod in DFU mode?
10:43:45planetbeing_And I'm guessing it's probably the standard DFU interface as defined by USB.org?
10:44:45n1splanetbeing: I have not tried anything really but the button presses and seeing that it identifies as a DFU device with different PID
10:45:12planetbeing_Do you happen to remember the product id? :p
10:45:32planetbeing_Well, it can't possibly be the same, or iTunes would misidentify it.
10:45:55planetbeing_But you don't know what format of files DFU mode accepts?
10:48:14n1sthe pid was 0x1255 in DFU mode, and no, I didn't try anything with it in the DFU mode
10:48:35linuxstbplanetbeing_: I don't want to get too off-topic for this channel, but have a quick question - I'm curious if you're the only person working on iphone-linux, or if there are many other interested developers?
10:49:15planetbeing_linuxstb: A bunch of people have offered help, but interest seems to be a little ephemeral for the most part. :/
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10:49:39planetbeing_I was the only one holding it together, but I got busy with other portions of my life for a couple of months so it hadn't gone anywhere. I'm trying to get back into it now.
10:50:47planetbeing_Not very many people have both the time and skills to undertake, say, writing a new USB driver or reverse engineering the iPhone's XNU kernel to figure out how the touch screen works.
10:51:14planetbeing_n1s: there's no Apple software that will talk to it either?
10:51:22planetbeing_The iPod Updater doesn't work with it?
10:52:27n1splanetbeing: i didn't try anything really so i dont' know :/ must boot windows one of these days and try that
10:52:42planetbeing_Yeah. It would be interesting to see what gets sent.
10:53:28planetbeing_But apparently they're starting to add in x.509 certs? That's not good. I haven't heard of PKI used in any of the iPod firmware so far. (is that correct?)
10:54:13pondlifeWhat affects the RAM usage figure in rockbox-info.txt ?
10:54:30n1sIIUC one of or the first original iphone jailbreaks worked from a DFU mode exploit, ist it likely the ipods use the same code and would you guess it has been fixed??
10:54:30pondlife#8944 increases it by a whopping 60k
10:55:20planetbeing_The bug we happened to be a stack overflow in the parser for the DER certs.
10:55:27planetbeing_bug we had*
10:55:35planetbeing_It's been fixed in the new iPod touch 2G bootrom.
10:55:58planetbeing_They use an updated image format (img3) from the original format used by the first generation bootrom (img2).
10:56:04linuxstbpondlife: FS #8944 or r8944 ?
10:56:14pondlifeFS #8944, sorry
10:56:16planetbeing_Since you say the iPod firmware is entirely different, I am not sure how much code is shared.
10:56:25pondlifeI think I have found my culprits...
10:56:38linuxstbpondlife: That's just a rejected bug report...
10:56:57pondlife8894, even :)
10:57:06pondlife(FS #8894)
10:57:21n1splanetbeing: ok, thanks for the info, got to go now but will check the logs
10:57:30pondlifestatic int32_t overlap_buffer[2][3072]; is probably the main issue.
10:57:35planetbeing_All right. My advice is to try DFU mode with the iPod updater.
10:57:40pondlifeMore buffer_alloc needed, I think
10:57:48planetbeing_And see if there's any provisions to recovery from it with Apple's software.
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11:02:43linuxstbplanetbeing_: How does DFU mode actually work? I know it's a USB standard, but does the standard simply specify a private payload to transfer, or is there more to it. Some of the devices Rockbox runs on have a "usb-boot mode", where code is uploaded via usb and then executed - is dfu similar to that, or is the actual data uploaded not specified by the standard?
11:03:02*linuxstb should probably just read that specification...
11:03:05planetbeing_The actual data uploaded is not specified by the standard.
11:03:21planetbeing_Just the way it's uploaded, the endpoints used, the state diagram, etc.
11:03:36linuxstbSo what do Apple upload? I assume it's encrypted?
11:03:43planetbeing_Eventually it comes down to, stuff is uploaded somehow, and the device is given the instruction to "manifest".
11:03:50planetbeing_And manifest can mean flashing or executing code or whatever.
11:04:10planetbeing_Yeah, for Apple, you upload an Img3, generally.
11:04:32planetbeing_Those are signed, encrypted containers that they use for bootloader resources, as well as even the XNU kernel.
11:06:05linuxstbAnd this was (is?) hacked in some way?
11:06:19planetbeing_Somewhat.
11:06:39planetbeing_It all depends on breaking into the chain of trust at some point.
11:06:59planetbeing_Usually not during a signature check, though.
11:07:10planetbeing_But just bugs in code that's already been signature checked.
11:07:44planetbeing_However, the old signature checking code in the bootrom (for img2) we broke.
11:10:52linuxstbIs theiphonewiki.com site the best place to read about this?
11:13:08planetbeing_Yes, although none of the people on the "cutting edge" edit it regularly, but it should be fine.
11:15:09linuxstbOK, thanks.
11:21:19pondlifeGot my timestretch delta down to 2748... still quite large.
11:21:46pondlifeAny objection to that sort of thing being committed?
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11:24:49LinusNi have no objections
11:27:06linuxstbpondlife: So I assume that's now virtually all code?
11:27:46pondlifeI think so, not entirely sure how to interpret the numbers... BIN delta = 2696, RAM delta = 2800
11:28:05linuxstbThat sounds reasonable to me as well - I haven't looked at the patch, but I can't imagine it's a trivial feature...
11:28:08pondlifeThe delta table appears to use the mean of the two
11:28:39linuxstbYes, I don't really understand that...
11:28:44pondlifeThe last posted patch still uses 60k of RAM on top of that... new one coming up.
11:29:15pondlifeI really don't want to penalise non-timestretch users (99% of us)
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11:35:18pondlifeHmm, tdspeed.c has a GPLv2 license specified
11:35:37Unhelpfullinuxstb: i wanted to leave open the possibility of running multiple allocators, for example one per core, or for two different regions of memory... but without the probably-common case of one allocator needing the context passed everywhere.
11:36:00pondlifeI guess I should commit it as is, then see if the copyright holders (sdoyon and nicolas pitre) mind if I change it to v2 or later?
11:36:38pondlifeI suspect it's just because the file has been on the tracker for a while
11:36:52linuxstbUnhelpful: But isn't the context being passed everywhere? i.e. via the macros?
11:37:52linuxstbpondlife: It would seem nicer to verify the copyright before changing. Or do you mean commit with a "v2" header, and then change it to "v2 or later" once they confirm (assuming they do) ?
11:38:03pondlifeYes
11:38:26pondlifeIs there a problem with v2 code in SVN for a while?
11:38:53linuxstbProbably not, but is there any rush?
11:38:54pondlifeI've e-mailed - maybe I should wait for their responses first?
11:38:57pondlifeNo
11:39:08Unhelpfultrue, i suppose. it only makes the code *look* more simple, so i wouldn't have a problem with removing the macros. i thought about wrapping the _ctx versions with ones that use the global context, but that really doesn't make sense unless i can get it to inline the calls to them
11:39:25pondlifeWell, yes - it appears this is wanted before the 3.2 freeze..
11:39:58linuxstbUnhelpful: It just seems odd to have global_context declared as a global variable in buffer_alloc.c, but then not used (directly).
11:40:29linuxstbpondlife: When is that?
11:42:14Unhelpfulperhaps i ought to remove the context passing entirely, and refer to the global context directly, until we actually have to worry about running more than one?
11:43:03linuxstbI think I would tend towards the plugin itself defining the context struct - that's how most libraries tend to work.
11:43:21Unhelpfulfair enough, that's probably the smallest change, too.
11:44:18Unhelpfulshould the filenames change, perhaps, to avoid confusion with the core function of the same name?
11:45:02linuxstbYes, that could be nicer.
11:45:42Unhelpfuland the _ctx suffix may as well go away, if it's the only way to call them... is the buf_ function prefix fine?
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11:49:23pondlifelinuxstb: Not sure, but soon, I'd think. Is 3.2 meant to be end-of-March?
11:49:38pondlifeIf so, the freeze should be with us mid-March, right?
11:50:58linuxstbI think the schedule is release on 23rd, freeze two weeks before - so the 9th.
11:51:08pondlifeSo very soon!
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11:56:56linuxstbUnhelpful: What are you planning on calling the files? I guess it's possible that other buffering libs could be added, so it might be useful to make the names specific.
11:58:33Unhelpfuli don't know, i had most of the code written before it occurred to me that "buffer_alloc" was not a good name. it's a handle-based API, not all that different from core bufalloc/bufclose, but i'm not sure what name would best suggest that without creating confusion.
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12:00:46linuxstbMaybe just something simple like "buflib" - for both the files and the prefix? That at least makes it clear that it's something different from other things.
12:02:10Unhelpfulthat's fine with me. any other suggestions?
12:03:00linuxstbNot from me ;)
12:04:14Unhelpfulthe second dev to implement something that could be called a "buflib" is going to hate me ;)
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12:09:54*pondlife thinks that buffer_alloc() should fail if audio has already been initialised...
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13:18:50pondlifeWho would claim to understand how dircache is built?
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13:19:14moosSlasheri I guess ;)
13:19:30pondlifeAh, he's both Mr Tag- and Mr Dir- cache?
13:19:43moosyup
13:20:16pondlifeWell, anyone who knows (or would like to test) should take a look at a little tidy-up patch - http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9981
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14:10:52robin0800have you broken shuffling ? updateded today and shuffle not working cleared settings and tried again still not working
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14:50:54archivatorCan anyone help with a bit rbutil patching? I need to store two paths for a single TTS engine. Any proper way of doing that or should I just combine the paths into one and store that?
14:53:07archivator*bit of
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17:03:06archivatorHas anyone here worked on the rbutil code? I need some clarification on how the settings system works
17:03:33LambdaCalculus37archivator: Ask bluebrother and Domonoky; they're the RButil maestroes.
17:03:43LambdaCalculus37s/maestroes/maestros
17:04:16The-CompilerLambdaCalculus37: s/maestroes/maestros/ ;)
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17:05:09archivator...I guess I'll wait for them to show up..
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18:17:58unstableDoes rockbox work with the e280 v2 yet?
18:18:04unstableI hate the of
18:18:27unstableSome idiot sold me the e280 on ebay, claiming it was v1 and even said it worked with rockbox, but alas, it was v2
18:18:27_Auron_check the wiki for updates, but the answer is not yet
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18:18:55_Auron_I have a e260v2 that I got off woot.com
18:18:59domonokyit works but it is "unstable" and of course not supported
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18:19:41_Auron_I hate the OF too, especially the 'updating database' crap it does. which it doesn't even do well, I might add. still awaiting an official release for it
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18:21:41*domonoky thinks it might take a long time, till we have a official release for the ams-sansas, not many people are working on it..
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18:39:34Riku"rockbox for 5G, from what I've read, only lags on the 80gb version due to the way data is stored and accessed on larger drives..."
18:39:42Rikuis there truth in this statement?
18:40:43kadobanRiku: i doubt it, that makes no sense
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18:40:58scorche|shrockbox generally lags (depending on usage) on any 5th gen due to the relatively lower power processor and the large screen to update
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18:41:14Rikucompared to the 4g?
18:41:24Rikudidnt know the 4g has a better processor
18:41:43scorche|shit doesnt...it has a smaller screen to update
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18:45:08rasherkadoban: There is a difference in the 80/60GB models in how the harddrive is formatted, but I don't think it affects responsiveness
18:45:22rasherOr is it only the 80GB? I forget.
18:45:34scorche|shonly 80
18:49:09Rikuhumm maybe i'll do a side by side with a 30gig 5g once i get the chance
18:50:18rasherI sincerely doubt you'll see any difference
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18:52:40Rikuok
18:52:55Rikubut it is sort of irritating that the responsiveness is less than OF
18:53:06Rikuthis is the only drawback other than the battery thing
18:53:10Rikufor me anyway
18:57:30scorche|shwhat battery thing?
18:58:52Rikureduced battery life
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19:01:46scorche|shthat is older information...we should be just about at or above the original firmware runtime now (or this could be the one device we are still a little bit behind on...someone else can feel free to chip in)
19:03:40LambdaCalculus37I'm getting around 17-18h battery life on my iPod video with Rockbox, but this is with A) a CompactFlash mod, and B) a higher capacity battery. Also, I haven't been able to conduct a proper comparison test to see how much battery life I'm getting with the OF.
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19:04:38Rikumy refurbished set clocks 17hr 34mins looping a flac lvl 6 encoded album
19:04:47Rikueq off
19:04:53Riku-58db
19:05:00Rikuusing lineout
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19:14:33kushalonekushalone,
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19:15:37archivatorHas anyone considered hacking together a usage_bench_test ? Something that wakes the screen now and then, does some work to simulate menu browsing, etc. That is, a usage emulator. I don't really like the -58 dB benchmarks.. Too artificial, the numbers don't mean a thing..
19:16:28gevaertsarchivator: the numbers are *usually* meant to allow people to see what difference a change makes
19:16:53Rikuwell i do use my ipod exclusively with the lineout
19:17:09Rikubut the current benchmarking tool should be fine imo
19:17:21Rikuyou could start it in the morning and just use it throughout the day
19:18:25archivatorgevaerts: I realize that but I would like to have a reasonable expectation how long my battery would last during normal usage.
19:18:51gevaertsarchivator: sure, but I don't think "normal usage" actually exists
19:22:04archivatorYou're right. On the other hand, here's a reasonable test methodology: start the test, use the player for 30 min, during which the test records # LCD wakes/min, average LCD on duration, different metrics; then, you leave the player and the test emulates usage based on those metrics (you can go fancy and have the numbers decrease to simulate user awareness of decreasing battery levels).
19:22:36archivatorIt's far from perfect but it would give reasonable data.
19:23:07gevaertsWell, you're welcome to build such a system...
19:23:25archivatorRight after I finish the festival integration :)
19:23:30Rikuthe whole point of battery benches is to give a reasonable idea how long the battery will last
19:23:45Rikubut i do agree that tests should be standardised
19:23:59archivatorNeeded to hear that, though, don't want to have it done and then you guys be all "that doesn't fit our belief system"
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19:24:43*gevaerts points out that he represents about 1.5% of all developers with commit access
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19:25:31archivatorgevaerts: I realize that but you have been part of the community far longer than I and thus have a better sense of what's acceptable..
19:25:44sbehhi, bricked my sansa e200 (raw write on /dev/sda), what can i do?
19:25:54gevaertsarchivator: I'm still one of the newer ones
19:26:27gevaertssbeh: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SansaE200Unbrick
19:26:40toffe82do we need datasheet from austrian mcrosystem ?
19:26:56sbehgevaerts: danke
19:26:58archivatorI'll bring the question up in the forums or the mailing lists when I get to working on that.
19:26:59sbehgevaerts: thanks oO
19:27:51BigBambiarchivator: If you want developer response, then mailing list
19:28:00BigBambiarchivator: Many/most don't read the forums
19:28:19archivatorRight. Will have that in mind.
19:28:33BigBambiarchivator: Generally plugins are pretty "free"
19:29:29Rikuyou know i wish it were possible to flip the display on the ipod video
19:29:33Rikuso its easier to use
19:29:57sbehgevaerts: does not work :/
19:30:27archivatorRiku: no one's got to trying that yet. The lcd_flip functions are stubs.. Do we need hardware support for flip to work? Can't we do it in software?
19:30:59Rikui cant code but i'll be glad to do any testing if needed
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19:32:35archivatorgevaerts: don't you think it's a better idea instead of your USB graph indicators to use plain text - data sent and data received? Plus, current utilization/speed perhaps.
19:33:04gevaertsarchivator: as the comment says, I'm leaving this to actual UI people :)
19:33:14gevaertssbeh: what exactly doesn't work?
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19:33:56sbehgevaerts: power on makes the wheel glue, and nothing happens
19:34:09archivatorRight. Thanks for the proof btw! Pretty cool. :)
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19:34:44sbehgevaerts: dmesg says new full speed usb device, but no usb-storage is found
19:35:11gevaertswell, no. You're not supposed to get a storage device at that point...
19:35:21*gevaerts thinks that sbeh should read that page again
19:35:33amiconnSeems like the black rectangle bug in the sdl sim isn't an sdl glitch, but a sim bug in the update rectangle calculation, that got uncovered by backlight simulation for colour targets
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19:36:25sbehgevaerts: switching the look-jumper to the position nearer to headphone-connector and holding record while powering in does not change anything
19:36:34sbehlook = lock
19:36:47gevaertssbeh: have you read the entire SansaE200Unbrick page?
19:38:32sbehgevaerts: yes
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19:38:55sbehgevaerts: every tips starts with the recovery-mode where i don't get into
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19:39:31gevaertssbeh: no
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19:39:46gevaertssbeh: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SansaE200Unbrick#Manufacturing_Mode
19:40:17sbehoh, there's a difference between recovery and manufacturing mode
19:40:21sbehsorry :P
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19:53:21sbehgevaerts: lsusb says 'Bus 001 Device 053: ID 0781:0720 SanDisk Corp. Sansa C200 series in recovery mode
19:53:31sbehbut i've got an e260 oO
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19:55:08archivatorOld recovery image? They might have forgotten to change the usb identity info..
19:55:39sbehi dont know what i should think of this
19:55:50sbehbecause there is no message 'welcome to recovery mode' on the screen
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20:00:39sbehah ok, even in manufactoring-mode its saying recovery
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20:01:52LloreanIn manufacturing mode nothing should display on the screen at all.
20:03:02LambdaCalculus37Only the scroll wheel should light up.
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20:06:03sbehyeah
20:06:07sbehpeople i love you
20:06:11sbehthis is realy hot shit :]
20:06:13bluebrotherdomonoky: any thoughs / comments on trying to get a rbutil release out the next couple of days?
20:06:35sbehLlorean: you're right, the sansa did enter the manufacturer mode even i don't hold anything
20:06:41bluebrotherHow about bumping to 1.1? We now don't need to update anymore on new Rockbox releases, so I think this justifies 1.1
20:06:52Lloreanbluebrother: That sounds good to me.
20:06:59sbehok, now i have welcome to the recovery mode blabla
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20:07:57domonokybluebrother: 1.1 is fine. But i only have time till saturday. afterwards i am away for a week.
20:08:20bluebrotherI've posted a current svn build a couple of days ago in the forums. As there were no responses either nobody tested or there weren't any issues
20:08:50bluebrotherdomonoky: I don't see a problem here. Worst case would be the OS X binaries coming a week later
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20:10:39domonokyjup, so feel free to release a new 1.1 version.. :-)
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20:13:22sbehhm, ok, just copying the .mi4-file did not do it
20:14:00sbehbut sansa.fmt did it, yeah :), thanks everyone ;)
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20:20:23bertrikI think it's weird that serial_port in features.txt depends on IPOD_ACCESSORY_PROTOCOL
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20:25:15pixelmagibbon_: a very belated thanks, I was already gone :)
20:25:27pixelmasorry, wrong channel :\
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20:52:15skykazeanybody here..
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21:01:40amiconnbertrik: That change was bad.
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21:02:38amiconnHAVE_SERIAL means a serial interface, which e.g. the archoses have too, but the 'serial' feature means it can be configured, which isn't possible on the archoses as it wouldn't make sense
21:04:28pixelmathe feature should be renamed then probably?
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21:22:07hillshumShould I be able to move http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/edit/Main/SansaCharging to a different parent?
21:24:58rasherhillshum: I don't see why not?
21:25:32hillshumThe link is "Change Topic" in the upper right no?
21:26:34rasherhillshum: No. On the regular page, click "more"
21:26:50hillshumOkay
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21:32:40bertrikamiconn, oh sorry
21:33:14bertrikthe original didn't make any sense to me at all and it seemed an obvious fix
21:34:02n1smaybe the feature can be called "serial_accessory_port" or something?
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21:35:35bertrikamiconn, should I revert it for now?
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21:45:07hillshumbertirk: I'll test the ADC channel in ~3 hours
21:45:59n1shas anyone seen FS #9982 ?
21:48:10n1swe have told people several times that translating the manual is not a very good idea, but do we reject it on principle
21:48:51n1s(he also translated the html manual for e200 directly, not the source so maintaining it will be next to impossible...)
21:51:20amiconngevaerts: Hmm, didn't you add something to the usb stack that notices safe removal?
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21:51:26LloreanI think for translated manuals there should be a few specific requirements. 1) All versions targets are translated with the translated versions provided as latex so that all versions can be built. 2) We only host translated release manuals, so that we don't have to worry about whether they're up to date, etc.
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21:53:35gevaertsamiconn: not yet. It should handle explicit eject properly (except on the beast, as that one isn't removable because of the two partitions), but safe removal doesn't do eject. I still need to look at what it does exactly
21:54:21linuxstbn1s: I think we need to at least ask him/her to provide the translation as latex - and as Llorean said, this will mean all parts, not just those used by the e200. We also need to think about how to incorporate manual translations into the build system...
21:54:30gevaertsIIRC safe removal *sometimes* does a proper eject
21:54:34amiconnbertrik: I think the feature should be renamed (probably as n1s suggested), but if you don't have time to do it now it should be reverted so that it won't be forgotten
21:55:03*linuxstb has doubts about hosting a manual in a language no core project member understands though (afaik...)
21:55:33BigBambilinuxstb: We have an English one...
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21:56:02linuxstbBigBambi: ?
21:56:07rashergevaerts: Yeah, I'm pretty sure that happened to me a few times when testing
21:56:18Lloreanlinuxstb: Most of our Rockbox translations are like that too, though.
21:56:19bertrikamiconn, ok, in that case I think I'll revert
21:56:35BigBambilinuxstb: Just a joke, given the seemingly constant arguments we have about English :)
21:56:49LloreanI think that we shouldn't do regular manual builds for any language other than English, but release builds _if a translation update is submitted during the freeze that claims to be complete_
21:57:01gevaertsLlorean: true, but the translations are easy to check for completeness and bit-rot
21:57:35Lloreangevaerts: They're easy to check for "does every string have a line of possible-gibberish assigned to it" at least.
21:58:25CtcpPing from gevaerts!n=fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts
21:58:32 Quit LambdaCalculus37 ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
21:59:02n1sThe risk of a translated manual simply being incorrect in places is big, add incompleteness and it becomming out of date, maybe it would only make things worse for people trying to use it...
21:59:09gevaertsLlorean: yes. Not perfect, but a lot better than I see as possible for the manual
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21:59:33Lloreann1s: As I said, don't publish translated manuals except with releases when we have someone who's willing to testify to it being completed.
21:59:44*gevaerts would like to be proven wrong on this, but he doesn't think it's likely
22:00
22:00:55n1sLlorean: to me that means that we will never release any translated manuals at all.
22:00:57linuxstbI think it depends on how this translator responds to the request to translate the latex - if he doesn't want to, then I say we just reject it. We don't want to add something that no-one is going to maintain.
22:01:07gevaertsI wouldn't object to e.g. plugin bits not having a translation, provided that this is clearly marked
22:01:43Lloreann1s: That's fine. I don't see any reason we _have_ to, I just think that there should be some conditions under which we would in case someone is dedicated enough to jump through the hoops we'd feel is necessary.
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22:07:23rasherHaving never really understood the theme site, how are themes stored with regards to which themes they fit? Simply by their LCD size?
22:07:32rasherEh, which targets they fit.
22:09:48scorcheyes...just LCD size...though we presented to the user by target to make it easy for them, of course
22:10:02scorchethough, this never took into account rwps, etc
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22:14:02rasherShould work out in the end anyway
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22:14:41rasherFor targets with no remote, show all themes that match the main lcd. For targets with one, show all themes that match the main lcd *and* have an .rwps file in the zip
22:15:05amiconnThere are some more differences to account for, e.g. RTC vs. non-RTC
22:15:55rasherEugh.. That requires parsing the .wps file as well as the zip structure :\
22:16:12rasherDoable though. Think I'll ignore it for now
22:16:27scorcheor little checkmarks when uploading...
22:16:45 Quit evilnick_230 ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
22:17:14scorchebut yeah...i would think that for now we can ignore it...it doesnt rank highly on the priority scale
22:17:22Lloreanamiconn, rasher: I thought non-RTC targets fill in the location an RTC text would be with spaces, now.
22:17:29LloreanSo that RTC themes should work for both
22:18:15*rasher thinks there should be a "RTC available" tag
22:18:48rasherThat would of course make parsing the wps on the theme site even more complicated
22:19:21pixelmamaybe have additional sites for the remotes (thinking of 128x64x1 which could now be .wps or a .rwps
22:19:25*gevaerts still wants conditions based on equality of two other tags
22:19:45pixelmas/sites/pages
22:20:13sbehhey after unbricking my sansa e260, dmesg says: usb 1-1.3: config 128 interface 0 altsetting 0 endpoint 0x81 has an invalid bInterval 100, changing to 10
22:20:41amiconnrwps isn't independent of the main wps atm. That would need (basic) multifont support
22:21:00sbehah, damned, usb-mode
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22:23:58Homedawg68Will rockbox ever make a rockbox for Nano 2g?
22:24:05pixelmaI can think of at least one other tag that exists on one target but not on the other one with the same display size - the virtual LED one (e.g. should exist for the greyscale Ipods but not for the H100 as this has a real LED)
22:24:29Homedawg68Will there ever be Rockbox iPod Nano 2G?
22:24:30scorcheHomedawg68: i cant speak for "ever", but no one is currently working on it, so the outlook does not look good
22:24:36Homedawg68Oh
22:24:41scorcheyou dont need to repeat yourself..
22:25:01Homedawg68Is it hard to make it for that or something?
22:25:12n1syes
22:25:16Homedawg68Because it's probably easier to make then a jailbreak for the iPod touch
22:25:29n1soh, please explain.
22:25:40scorchemuch harder, actually....
22:25:46Homedawg68How the fuck would I know
22:25:53Homedawg68I'm not part of the Devteam
22:26:09scorchethen dont assume it is easier...
22:26:10scorchebesides all new hardware that would need to be reverse engineered, we would need to get around the encryption on the firmware
22:26:27Homedawg68And my explanation of what I do know: iTouch is updated like every other month or so
22:26:29n1sso how do you know which is easier, a thing *no one* has done yet or a thing you don't know how it was done?
22:26:42Homedawg68Nano 2G hasn't been updated in..
22:26:43Homedawg68Er...
22:26:48Homedawg682 - 3 years probably
22:26:49scorcheit isnt about being updated
22:27:01Homedawg68Yes it is, because it updates the ability of jailbreaking
22:27:17Homedawg68because rockbox and jailbreak basically do the same thing, allow you to do things you can't normally on an iPod
22:27:18scorchewe arent jailbreaking the ipod...we are replacing the firmware...
22:27:26scorcheno they arent
22:27:37Homedawg68Are you dense? I said basically
22:27:43scorcheand they arent
22:27:52Homedawg68and yes they are
22:28:08Homedawg68Find an unpacker for the .ipsw file
22:28:13Homedawg68Which obviously someone has
22:28:17Homedawg68If it has been done
22:28:28scorchethey are completely different...jailbreaking still uses all of the bits of the apple firmware to run off of...rockbox replaces the firmware so we need to figure out all of the chips, how they work, load our code, etc
22:28:43Homedawg68And take files or script from the 3G or Chromatic for the video file
22:28:47scorcheif it is so easy, then please feel free to do it...otherwise, dont claim to know more than us about this "simple" thing
22:28:54Homedawg68How the fuck would I do it
22:29:03Homedawg68If someone showed me how to do it
22:29:05Homedawg68Hell I'd do it
22:29:18scorcheyou seem to think you have a fine idea how....i am telling you that your thinking is incorrect
22:29:45scorcheand stop using vulgar language....it is not needed
22:29:54Homedawg68Who the hell are you to tell me that my thinking is so correct, because if you know so much then you do it
22:30:06Homedawg68And it's called freedom of speech, I enjoy using it.
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22:30:20Mode"#rockbox +o scorche " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
22:30:27Mode"#rockbox +b %Homedawg68!*@* " by scorche (n=scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
22:30:30Homedawg68Lawl
22:30:39Homedawg68Brb getting ip changer
22:31:19scorchefreedom of speech does not apply to private areas...you are muted for 10 minutes...please use this time to rethink your approach and perhaps come back with a better attitude
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22:32:42LloreanHomedawg68: This channel has guidelines. It's a private space you are being permitted to use, and that permission can be revoked under certain conditions.
22:33:48Lloreanscorche tried to explain to you the differences between how Rockbox works and how a simple jailbreak works. The jailbreak is basically "running applications on their OS" whereas Rockbox is "writing an entirely new OS to run applications on." The level of additional work necessary for a Rockbox port is significant, and in many senses impossible to describe accurately to someone who's not familiar with what hoops exist at that level to jump
22:35:04 Quit sbeh ()
22:37:41Rikuthink of it this way.
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22:37:55Rikujailbreak is like adding a turbo add on kit
22:37:57***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:38:02Rikuwhat rockbox does is build a new engine
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22:38:43LloreanJailbreak is more like "taking the limiter off" whereas Rockbox is like leaving the engine and frame, but replacing everything else, if you want to go that sort of analogy route.
22:39:06Rikuhumm youre right thats more accurate
22:39:13Homedawg68But it's like been 2 or 3 years
22:39:18Homedawg68It can't take that long
22:40:24Mode"#rockbox -o logbot " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
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22:42:50LloreanRiku: Not like it matters too much. None of the people who want it on the player he wanted have ever really had the dedication to even try to do the work. They just complain that we're not doing it, which is basically the case with 95% of the threads in the new ports forum. Everyone has a favorite player, but everyone also thinks that someone completely unpaid should do the work for them.
22:43:24Rikuthe way i see it you can hope but you cant insist
22:43:50Mode"#rockbox -b %Homedawg68!*@* " by scorche (n=scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
22:43:55scorchenow please behave
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22:51:43planetbeing_You really can't barge into places and demand people do things for you. That would've gotten him a ban on irc.osx86.hu (where iPhone jailbreaking, etc. is discussed), not just a temporary gag.
22:52:34scorcheeh...i have a process that i stick to...it ends nicely most of the time
22:52:53 Part akur
22:52:54scorchethen usually end up just leaving quietly while muted
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22:53:24Lloreanplanetbeing_: We like to at least hope that people can be reasonable once they've cooled down.
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22:57:31planetbeing_Oh, your moderation policy is definitely more civil. I am not involved in the moderation of irc.osx86.hu, but in its defense, we get people like him a lot more often. ;)
22:58:19fmlHow long does it take for a mail sent to the dev-ml to be processed? I sent one over an hur ago but doesn't seem to have been pickes
22:58:28Mode"#rockbox -o scorche " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
23:00
23:00:13saratogaminute or two usually
23:01:07gevaertsfml: did you use a subscribed email address?
23:01:30BigBambifml: I also sent one earlier that hasn't got through yet
23:01:30rasherfml: Does it show up in the archives?
23:02:22Lloreanrasher: Sometimes the archives are _really_ slow to update.
23:02:22fmlgevaerts: ah, no! I'll resend.
23:04:52 Quit linuxstb ("Leaving")
23:04:56amiconnUnhelpful: Does the buflib take whatever memory you hand it? I.e. should it allow to port pf to hwcodec, using the audio buffer?
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23:06:06Unhelpfulyes. there were a few other things that were not in the API on hwcodec targets - i tried pf-on-sh a while ago, the stumbling block was bufalloc
23:06:39*amiconn should probably try that soonish
23:08:03Unhelpfuland i had to package AA for pluginlib, but that's already committed now, for the swcodec mono targets
23:09:46 Quit MethoS-- (Remote closed the connection)
23:09:59Unhelpfuli'm not expecting great performance, but it's hard to say - 80MHz PP in e200 can manage 30-40fps, add a smaller display, a few less multiplies in some places because of greylib vs rgb565... but also running on a 12MHz CPU?
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23:11:56rasherWould still be neat to have
23:12:42Unhelpfulwell, we're practically there. it *might* need an overlay loader, i don't know how large the code and static allocations are on sh1
23:12:51gevaertsfml: I think I agree with you. Advanced typography can look really nice, but I don't think we want it
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23:15:00amiconnUnhelpful: 12MHz (Ondios) or 11MHz (recorders) - and the greylib draws around 50% cpu power while running
23:15:27fmlgevaerts: yes, I think it would make the rendering code unnecessarily complex. If we want more space then code it into the font. But RB would still be fast and lean.
23:15:35amiconnBut I hope performance won't be bad - and there are certainly some possibilities for optimisation
23:16:10amiconn*wont be too bad
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23:34:39*amiconn found a solution for the multifile plugin dependency problem when there's no .o named <pluginname>.o
23:34:56amiconnI can use a static pattern rule... no need to use .SECONDEXPANSION :D
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23:35:47n1sshould not all files in a plugin be recompiled if the makefile for the plugin changes?
23:40:35 Quit bmbl ("Woah!")
23:43:27bluebrotherhmm. Rockbox sources seem to come all as "WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, either express or implied."
23:43:42bluebrothernote the "express" −− shouldn't that be "expressed" instead?
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23:44:49n1sIANANES (Native English Speaker) but i think "express" is correct in this context
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23:45:48rasherThe GPL uses "expressed", but google seems to find some using express
23:45:59rasherThe BSD license does, it seems
23:46:10LloreanIt really ought to be "expressed" as far as I know.
23:46:14bluebrotherthe GPL was the reason that confused me ;-)
23:46:33LloreanIt's just a tense issue.
23:46:46LloreanI don't think we're missing an "express warranty", we don't have an "expressed warranty"
23:46:59LloreanWithout that ed, it just seems to suggest the one we don't have would've been quite fast.
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23:47:42bluebrotherstill feels like "fast" warranty to me. Not that it is a real issue ... ;-)
23:48:13bluebrotherespecially if the term is correct. Another thing learnt :)
23:48:45n1shttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warranty#Express_warranty
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23:50:54LloreanI would think "expressed or implied" covers all types of possible warranties while "express or implied" allows the potential for an explicit warranty to still seem to exist as long as it's not an implicit warranty or an express warranty.
23:51:03LloreanAt least, based on that definition
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23:52:33n1sI think the "WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND" is pretty clear on it's own :)
23:52:43bluebrothertrue :)
23:53:43LloreanIndeed
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23:54:11BradPhillipsHi
23:54:46BradPhillipsCan I get authorization to edit the Wiki? I have some accessory tests to report, already left a comment on FS.
23:55:32bluebrotherBradPhillips: sure. Is your wiki name the same as your nick?
23:55:36rasherBradPhillips: Done. Now promise not to spam us.
23:55:50BradPhillipsCross my heart.
23:56:02 Quit bephillips ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
23:56:20*bluebrother too slow
23:57:38bluebrotherhmm. How does the h100 detect the remote types? It's an ACD, but how does the remote generate the value? It can't be the RMC pin
23:58:51n1sbluebrother: iirc it had something to do with a difference in resistance or something, i think LinusN was the one that figured it out
23:59:00 Quit jaykay (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))

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