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#rockbox log for 2009-03-07

00:01:02*amiconn oh-noes @ mono bitmap drawing performance on anything chunky
00:01:38 Join fml [0] (n=4fd3d3e0@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-68e896a92c627bfa)
00:01:42amiconnI.e. both 16bit and greylib
00:02:32fmlErr... My commit has caused bootloader build failures. How should I proceed? Revert? Or quickly fix?
00:03:34gevaertsfml: fix
00:03:41amiconn"NCHARS and max code mismatch "?
00:04:45pixelmabluebrother: Bagder said he's off for a few days (holiday)
00:04:50domonokyBagder: rbutil 1.1 binary for mac: jdgordon.info/~domonoky/rbutilqt-v1.1.dmg">http://jdgordon.info/~domonoky/rbutilqt-v1.1.dmg please copy to the download server
00:04:53 Join saratoga [0] (n=9803c6dd@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-051ea0722c656884)
00:05:30domonoky(or anyone else with access to the download server) :-)
00:05:41amiconnfml: Looks like you introduced a bug wrt font range limiting. The bootloaders must only get pure ascii.
00:06:07JdGordon|domonoky: yeah, you should stop using jdgordon.info and use gordonmob.com instead.... i dont knnow when ill change it but it could be soon
00:06:11 Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (n=miepel@p579EC9E4.dip.t-dialin.net)
00:06:44domonokydomonoky/rbutilqt-v1.1.dmg">http://gordonmob.com/~domonoky/rbutilqt-v1.1.dmg :-)
00:07:28saratogaI just added two more GSOC ideas
00:09:41fmlamiconn: could you elaborate? Do you mean that bootloaders should only consider chars < 128?
00:09:46linuxstbsaratoga: "optimizing for ARM playback" ? What about our other targets? And where is the WMA pro codec - ffmpeg?
00:10:09saratogalinuxstb: yes its in ffmpeg
00:10:11amiconnfml: Yes. That's specific by a command line switch to convbdf
00:10:37saratogagenerally, coldfire has been fast enough that no arch specific optimization has been needed, at least in my experience
00:10:49saratogaplus its unlikely we'll find a student with a CF device
00:11:23fmlamiconn: ok, I'll check
00:11:29amiconnfml: convbdf has two switches for this, -s and -l . See getopt()
00:11:35saratogalinuxstb: well ffmpeg-soc branch, it hasn't been merged into main yet
00:11:43saratogabut its functional and very nearly complete
00:13:24fmlamiconn: Ok, I see the offending lines. I've introduced them recently. It's weird that it only fails now.
00:14:22amiconnWell, the check is new...
00:15:00amiconnstarting at line 467
00:16:01 Quit reacocard ("dammit screen give me my unicode already")
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00:17:30 Quit bluebrother ("leaving")
00:19:56fmlamiconn: I introduced it as a sanity check but it was too much of a good. I removed the check for now and will re introduce it (or something similar) in a later version.
00:20:17*amiconn thinks that convbdf now spits far too many warnings
00:20:44*bertrik too
00:21:08fmlI plan to introduce more command line options to allow to build fonts with modified ascent/descent (see mailing list and FS #9931)
00:21:27fmlOk, I'll introduce an option to be verbose or quiet
00:21:36 Join pixelma_ [50] (n=pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma)
00:21:36 Quit pixelma (Nick collision from services.)
00:21:36 Quit amiconn (Nick collision from services.)
00:21:36 Join amiconn_ [50] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
00:21:48 Nick pixelma_ is now known as pixelma (n=pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma)
00:21:53fmlShould the last warning be always printed (how many glyphs were clipped)?
00:21:54 Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
00:22:13fmlOr also only when in verbose mode?
00:23:49amiconnOnly in verbose mode imo
00:24:04 Quit fyrestorm ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.6/2009011913]")
00:26:35fmlamiconn: but then ther will be no indication of clipping at all
00:26:43amiconnThe warnings don't make sense during a normal build, because you get to see the warnings, but not the font(s) they're referring to
00:26:44 Quit goffa (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:27:11amiconnI don't care about this clipping, in fact. If the font is designed to clip, then let it...
00:27:56amiconnIt probably makes sense to display the warnings in verbose mode so that you can analyze a font and fix it if you want, but during normal builds it's just clutter
00:28:20fmlamiconn: OK
00:28:26amiconnI get >4 pages worth of warnings on a 'make 7zip' now
00:29:13 Quit planetbeing_ ()
00:32:49fmlamiconn: now you have something to read before you go to sleep! :-) Ok, fixed.
00:37:28 Quit flydutch ("/* empty */")
00:39:02***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:39:12 Quit kushalone ("Leaving. I cannot promise to be back but most likely will.")
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00:44:44 Join plutonian [0] (n=plutonia@c-67-183-155-218.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
00:44:57plutonianI have a repeating freeze on my rockbox player
00:45:50plutonianwhen I load a certain song with a theme that has album artwork, the song plays for 9 seconds, I see the album artwork, and then at the exact same time I get "Data Abort at 000098BC (0)"
00:45:57plutonianand I have to reboot my iPod
00:46:16plutonianthe crash doesn't occur when I'm using a non-album artwork theme
00:46:52 Quit fml ("CGI:IRC")
00:48:18plutonianand if I start playing the song with a non-album artwork theme
00:48:26plutonianI can switch to an album artwork theme
00:48:32plutonianand then play from the middle of it
00:48:47plutonianbut if I try to play the first 9 seconds with album artwork enabled, it always crashes
00:49:19plutonianis this caused by the bmp scaling code?
00:52:54rasheramiconn: Any idea why archos sims don't get stripped by default whereas the rest do?
00:54:18 Join tyfoo [0] (n=tyfoo@77-20-31-238-dynip.superkabel.de)
00:57:38pixelmaplutonian: could you tell the revision number of the build you're running?
00:58:52plutonianit's the one under official build right now
00:58:54plutonian3.1
00:59:11plutonianI'm in disk mode right now, so I can't get the exact number
01:00
01:00:42pixelmasounds a bit like the bug to me that got fixed in r20081 which was after 3.1 (http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9827). Please try with a current build
01:00:59plutonianwill do
01:01:31 Quit jhMikeS (Nick collision from services.)
01:01:37 Join jhMikeS [50] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS)
01:01:42plutonianthat bug doesn't sound like mine
01:01:47plutonianmy bug only happens with certain files
01:02:10 Quit dfkt ("-= SysReset 2.53=- Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.")
01:03:28pixelmathis was happening too for me (I could reproduce it reliably with one album), see my comment there
01:05:22pixelmait did not crash with all files as the original poster reported
01:06:01plutonianhm
01:06:21plutonianWell it'll take me a while to figure out what I need to back up from my .rockbox directory before I upgrade
01:06:29plutonianbut I'll try the nightly
01:07:05BigBambiplutonian: Current
01:07:14saratogayou don't have to back up anything
01:08:07BigBambiplutonian: The archive (daily) build is just the current built at the same time every day. There is no reason to use it over a current build, except in the very rare occasions when the current is known bad
01:08:19plutoniandon't I have to delete my current .rockbox in order to have a clean install?
01:08:39BigBambiJust overwrite it
01:09:01plutonianwhat if there are files in the old version that aren't in the new?
01:09:08plutonianor that shouldn't be, rather
01:09:19BigBambidoesn't matter
01:09:19saratogadoesn't matter
01:09:29saratogalook we're not trying to trick you here
01:09:37BigBambiIf the new doesn't have them, it won't try to use them as it doesn't expect to have them
01:09:56BigBambiplutonian: Honestly, we know whereof we speak
01:10:06plutonianI don't doubt it
01:12:03plutonianI'm just suspicious that my .rockbox contains some cached files that might be causing errors
01:18:03 Quit JdGordon| ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
01:19:00BigBambiplutonian: You can delete everything if you want - if you want to save your settings first, then you can. Also, if you do stuff like runtime gathering with the database then you will need to export that too.
01:20:06Unhelpfulamiconn: yes, only the cache build uses any of the scalers, but we might be able to shave some off of that ~15min cache build if we can speed it up, and the multiplies that can be 16x16->32 are the ones performed most often
01:20:45amiconnI've just committed my tweaks
01:20:55 Quit tyfoo ("Carpe diem")
01:21:26Unhelpfulalso, if you can write up an asm 16x32->32, i think there are some places that could use that inline instead of calling the 32x32->32 routine... they're not as large a portion of the load as the ones in the line scaler, though.
01:21:42amiconnTurned out that the destination and the operands need to have the right size in addition to the casting in order to make gcc use the instruction instead of the subroutine
01:22:30saratogadoes get_buffer advance the buffer position or do i have to call advance_buffer for the amount of bytes read in?
01:23:09amiconnThe only changes in the generated code for arm and cf are now asr->lsr, verified by diffing the disassemblies. Took me a while to get fade_color() right to not change more...
01:24:33Unhelpfulmaking the scaling for cache dynamic is on my to-do list as well, though. it's probably never going to be possible on sh1, though, no matter how much the scaler can be optimized.
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01:24:53amiconnWHat do you mean?
01:24:58webguestHello everyone
01:25:21webguestWill music quiz feature be available anytime soon?
01:25:50Unhelpfuli mean i want to get rid of the "cache building" wait at the beginning. it can be done, with a few core scaler tweaks, and a very small static buffer for the scaler to use.
01:25:56saratogahmm my sample rate ends up being about 16 million
01:26:05 Join Nico_P [50] (n=nicolas@rockbox/developer/NicoP)
01:26:55Unhelpfulthe scaled images will still be cached to disk when they're done, but the startup will be reduced to making sure that the cache items are for the proper albums, and of the proper size.
01:28:17bertrikwebguest, unlikely
01:29:16BigBambiwebguest: If someone that wants it (like you) writes it
01:30:34 Quit domonoky (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:31:38plutonianare .voice files target specific?
01:35:13linuxstbsaratoga: get_buffer() doesn't change the buffer position - you call advance_buffer() when you're finished with that buffer. i.e. call get_buffer(), then process the data, then call advance_buffer with how many bytes you've consumed.
01:35:26plutonianand will the Sansa e200 .voice file on the wiki work for my ipod 5g?
01:35:47saratogalinuxstb: is the buffer invalidated when I call advance_buffer, or do I have to call get_buffer again to do that?
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01:36:41linuxstbI'm not sure what you mean. What do you mean by invalidated?
01:37:06saratogawell sooner or later that buffer gets overwritten with subsequent data from the audio buffer right?
01:37:10linuxstbplutonian: Yes to your first question, and therefore no to the second.
01:37:12amiconnUnhelpful: For comparison, my H340 needs 4 minutes, and my H180 needs 3 minutes for preparing the slides for the same set of albums.
01:37:31amiconnSo the 15 minutes aren't that bad given the cpu speed difference...
01:37:31 Quit webguest ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
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01:38:08saratogaoh advance_buffer actually returns a new pointer?
01:38:10linuxstbsaratoga: Yes - only after the codec has called advance_buffer.
01:38:24webguestAbout album arts, can I place all my album arts in one folder? Will rockbox find it?
01:38:26saratogaok so I don't call get_buffer again, just advance buffer?
01:38:40amiconnH340 achieves ~24fps while scrolling around, H180 does 32fps
01:38:42Unhelpfulno, but 15 min is probably not fast enough for cache-build-on-demand
01:38:59UnhelpfulH3xx is color, H1xx grey, right?
01:39:05linuxstbget_buffer() simply returns a pointer to the current "buffer position". advance_buffer will increase "buffer position" and then the memory you've advanced over is free to be overwritten by the buffering code.
01:39:51plutonianwhere do I get voice files for the current build?
01:39:59Unhelpfulthere are about 235 covers on my beast, it takes 75s to build cache
01:40:27plutonianthe newest voice file for the ipod 5g is for "Between 11/18/07 and 8/06/07"
01:40:53amiconnYeah, right. I don't have that many albums, but I do have many single tracks with an album tag without a cover (in 'various tracks' folders)
01:41:03Unhelpfulthe source bitmaps are what, screen-size?
01:41:10amiconn200x200
01:41:24saratogalinuxstb: I guess what I'm unclear about is the order of events to step through a stream, do I call get_buffer once and then just call advance_buffer when I need data?
01:41:30webguestis there a program that can download album art that does not require 3.5 Net frame thingy
01:41:38saratogaor do I need to keep calling advance_buffer then get_buffer pairs
01:41:56Unhelpfulwow, you're scaling from that large on the sh1? my estimate of its performance has improved ;)
01:42:25*amiconn was too lazy to make a separate set of BMP files so far
01:42:52*amiconn will try to fix the start screen oddness on mono targets
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01:43:03Unhelpfuli've got the same problem, i don't really use my e200 aside from testing, so the covers and music on it are just copied from the beast, and therefore a good bit larger than the screen.
01:43:15plutoniansweet, the new build seems to fix my problem
01:43:24 Quit midijunkie ("?(???~•~)?")
01:43:31linuxstbsaratoga: The main decoding loop consists of a call to get_buffer() to get a pointer to the next frame/packet/whatever (you pass it the maximum possible size for a frame, unless you know it), then you call the codec decoding function to process it, then when you're finished, call advance_buffer() with the actual number of bytes you've consumed.
01:43:37Unhelpfulmight it be worthwhile to logf the time the cache build takes, and play around with optimizing the scaler a bit?
01:43:48 Quit yhuang ("Leaving")
01:43:55plutonianwhat is the meaning of the volume tag in wps syntax?
01:43:57linuxstbget_buffer() is guaranteed to return up to GUARD_BUFFER_SIZE (32KB) of contiguous data.
01:44:06plutonianwhat is meant by "0db", I mean
01:45:13 Quit webguest ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
01:45:23saratogalinuxstb: thanks, now I understand
01:45:34plutoniandoes it mean that the music is being played at its recorded volume? and is there anything special about 0-6 that's different from -56 to 0 in terms of what is being done to scale the volume?
01:46:03rasherplutonian: Anything above 0 might clip
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01:48:22fool_does anyone know if "the sharper image" audio player work with rockbox ?
01:48:46linuxstbYes
01:48:50linuxstbIt doesn't.
01:49:20fool_lol ok
01:49:50fool_do you know what's the manufacturer of it ?
01:49:55linuxstbEvery audio player is different - Rockbox needs to be ported to each one individually, which is a lot of work.
01:50:28saratogaopen it up and see who made it
01:51:19fool_i was hoping somebody'd came across it before me saratoga
01:51:30fool_looks like time to find the toolbox
01:51:31fool_lol
01:51:38krazykitgoogle would help there ;)
01:51:43saratogawell, you're welcome to look at the wiki, but i doubt anyone here knows
01:52:20fool_krazykit: i did some googling
01:52:57plutonianwill rockbox ever support suspend/resume on ipods?
01:53:10fool_the screws are so small i'm afraid i'm gonna break it
01:53:12fool_lol
01:53:55 Quit midgey ()
01:54:43saratogaplutonian: I think most people weren't that in favor of it, but if someone did the work well enough it probably wouldn't be rejected
01:54:52saratogaand we'd like to have it on the 1/2G since its needed on those
01:56:15fool_all there is is a huge samsung chip
01:56:16fool_:/
01:56:42saratogagoogle it
01:56:49bertriktake pictures and write down the numbers on the chips
01:56:50plutonianI like the new LCD screen off
01:56:59plutonianhopefully my battery life will improve
01:57:44linuxstbfool_: That sounds like the flash memory. There are probably other chips hidden somewhere...
01:59:32LloreanSeeking isn't expected to be 100% accurate on long MP3s, right?
01:59:34fool_yep linuxstb
01:59:43fool_SAMSUNG 716 k9laGO8UOM , flash reader
01:59:57saratogawell then search harder until you find hte CPU
02:00
02:00:10fool_acu7513
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02:00:14fool_does that sound like it ?
02:01:11bertrikactions semiconductor apparently
02:01:49bertrikhttp://www.actions-semi.com/en/product.aspx?id=27
02:04:53saratogaah one of the S1mp3 generic players then
02:06:39fool_http://www.s1fw.com/Actions-ACU75XX/ there are a ton of firmware here
02:06:40fool_:/
02:07:20 Quit bertrik ("Leaving")
02:07:31fool_nothing on the wiki
02:07:40fool_looks like i'm out of luck then
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02:24:08fool_gahh
02:24:20fool_i put it all back together and realize the onoff slider is stuck
02:24:22fool_damn
02:24:40fool_i knew something's gonna fsck up
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02:32:53saratogaamiconn: ping
02:33:23fool_saratoga: what did you do with your s1mp3 player ?
02:33:34fool_the current interface sucks bad :/
02:33:46saratogaI don't have an s1mp3
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02:35:00LloreanSeeking isn't expected to be 100% accurate on long MP3s, right? Is it expected at least to always end up before the target time, I hope?
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02:35:49saratogaamiconn: nevermind, found a bug in my makefile
02:39:06***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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02:43:57saratogawhere is int32_t defined in rockbox?
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02:45:14saratogaah inttypes.h
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03:00
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04:26:23Unhelpfulamiconn: i assume i could do *basically* the same thing as MULUQ for signed values as well?
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04:28:41Unhelpfulthe linear line scaler could potentially use a MULQ for the same sort of optimization i described for the area line scaler. i doubt you'll often be scaling covers up on sh1, though, and the linear scaler is loads faster because of the less frequent repetition of per-input-pixel math
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04:39:08***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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05:01:18 Quit fdinel ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
05:07:43Unhelpfulamiconn: when you get a chance, if you don't mind testing them, i have a couple of patches. http://pastie.org/410009 splashes the number of ticks spent on the cache build after it completes, you'll need to use whatever the ok/select button is on the target to clear it, and http://pastie.org/410002 uses hardware multiplies in the row scalers. the limits this imposes are that the maximum output width be <2**16, and that the scale factor w
05:07:43Unhelpfulhen scaling down can be no more than 258x...
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07:27:34Alex00088I just installed a new motherboard without re-installing XP (used sysprep). SVN won't let me update. Here's the error: ==== SVN: Can't open file 'utils/MTP/beastpatcher/.svn/lock': Permission denied === Any ideas?
07:27:55Alex00088btw there is no "lock" file in that dir
07:34:38Unhelpfulyou'd probably best look for a more general windows or svn help channel for that. you could try deleting and doing a fresh svn checkout, first, though.
07:36:04Alex00088That would take hours. I'm gonna try copying my Rockbox folder from Ubuntu (a few months old). Thanks.
07:36:21Unhelpfula new svn checkout would take *hours*?
07:37:58Alex00088dial-up
07:38:33Alex00088oops - Cygwin took hours.
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08:14:43Alex00088I just copied my Rockbox folder to a FAT drive, then copied it back. SVN is updating.
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08:50:57amiconnUnhelpful: I was thinking a bit about the MULUQ (and MULSQ) macros. Perhaps it would be better to use a little inline asm instead of relying on heavy casting to prod gcc into using the single instruction?
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08:53:41amiconnIt is mainly an SH1 specific optimisation. Coldfire also has a 16x16->32 multiply intsruction, in addition to 32x32->32, but they are equally fast.
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08:54:23amiconnIn fact the datasheet says that the 32x32 instruction does early termination, while the 16x16 one doesn't
08:56:44amiconnThe disadvantage of using inline asm is that it means the two instructions (lutliplication and fetching the result from the accumulator) will always ibe put together, causing a two-cyle pipeline stall. But in the cases I checked yesterday, gcc does the same anyway.
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09:19:38Unhelpfulif the casts work, i'd stick with them. where we *might* find some inline asm useful is an 16x32->32 unsigned multiply for the vertical scalers - that should be possible with two hardware multiplies on sh1, along with shift-add or using mac for one of the multiplies, right?
09:20:38amiconnThe problem with the casts is that it also depends on the operand and destination variables whether they work
09:21:06Unhelpfulbasically, the V scaler is doing the same operation the H scaler is, but on each 32-bit output value in a row from the H scaler, instead of on 8-bit values from the loader
09:21:31Unhelpfulah... so perhaps i'd better look more closely at how it handled the use of that macro in the scaler :)
09:22:14amiconnI discovered this while tracking down why the casts didn't work in my first attempt in pf. Both the operands and the output variable must be 32 bit (i.e. int or unsigned int - signedness doesn't matter) in order to trick gcc into using the instruction
09:22:55Unhelpfulso if the operands are 16-bit or 8-bit?
09:23:02amiconnIf either of the three is 16 bit or smaller, gcc will for some reason still use the subroutine. This even applies if an intermediate variable for the destination can be optimized away.
09:24:09amiconnThis is the cause for my changes to fade_color() operand and return value types
09:25:08amiconnSo using inline asm would make things more reliable.
09:25:27amiconnThis technique is not only used in pf, but also in the greylib and some other places
09:28:53amiconnAnd yes, a 32x16 multiply can be done with two hardware multiplies plus a bit of shifting and adding
09:29:25amiconnThat'll save a bit of time versus 32x32->32 (which needs 3 hardware multiplies + more shifting and adding)
09:30:57Unhelpfulalso, since it's not in core, inlining it for speed might be acceptable. for what it's worth, it appears the same macro works fine in the scaler - the values are uint32_t, the only one i'm not sure about are the bitmap struct's dimension fields, but the asm seems pretty clear
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09:35:58amiconnRegarding your patches - limiting the output size should be fine, but I'm not sure about limiting the downscaling factor
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09:39:16Unhelpfulthat should give you sizes that approach the limits of the algorithm used, anyway, for reasonable target sizes.
09:40:03Unhelpfuleven if you're scaling down to 16x16, that lets you have input of 4128, which is large enough to possibly overflow the pixel value accumulator
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09:56:14plutonianwhat controls how often rockbox refreshes wps tags?
09:56:42plutonianI've got a wps that puts the %pc tag in two places, one in the center viewport and one on the side
09:56:49plutonianthe one in the center refreshes, the one on the side doesn't
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09:59:37pixelmais one of them in a line that has the %s tag? Or are the viewports perhaps overlapping?
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10:01:14plutonianone of them is in a scrolling line, yes
10:01:20plutoniandoes that make it so it can't refresh?
10:03:08pixelmayes, scrolling lines have a problem with dynamic content that should refresh regularly
10:03:20plutonianhmm
10:03:43plutonianI like AAFreak theme, but it has a problem with files that run over an hour
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10:03:56plutonianthe progress times don't fit
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10:15:01plutonianis the fact that my ipod no longer automatically goes into disk mode when I plug it in under rockbox a bug or a feature?
10:16:54linuxstbWhich ipod?
10:22:26plutonian5g
10:31:49bertrikFlynDice, have you been able to test the new patch for the e200v2 rtc?
10:36:32linuxstbplutonian: Then yes, that seems like a bug. Does it never go into disk mode, or just sometimes?
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10:41:59pixelmahuh?
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10:42:53pixelmaif plugging in under Rockbox one should have Rockbox USB now on an 5g Ipod, no?
10:44:08pixelmaplug in USB I mean
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10:59:22pixelmaplutonian: since you upgraded from 3.1 to a current build yesterday - and if you still get a USB data connection even if it's not Apple's disk mode - I vote for "a feature"
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11:00:40Unhelpfulpixelma: so your recommendation for the pictureflow album view would be direct use of core custom actions? it seems that PLA provides some of the boilerplate that will be needed for that sort of thing, but i don't really see how to make PLA itself useful in a way that's not a huge mess...
11:01:31Unhelpfulit would, except for the most simple cases, end up being each plugin having its very own PLA context, or else the stuff that happens now with combining contexts and some actions just having their mappings disappear
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11:07:39pixelmacore custom actions? In my opinion PLA is not useful in its current state at all, I could only imagine 2..3 (maybe only one) very basic contexts in a lib like that. If you need more it's better if the plugin itself defines its own buttons or actions as that does prevents hidden "connections" and does not stuff things away. amiconn had an idea how to use the action "system" so you don't have to take care of pre conditions etc., I guess he can expla
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11:12:05Unhelpfulthe core get_custom_action function that PLA calls is what i'm thinking of using... the track list in PF can just use get_action with the list/browser context :)
11:12:56Unhelpfulbut the album list does something nothing in core does, scrolling horizontally. people using scrollwheel targets will expect the wheel to scroll the album list horizontally as well as the track list vertically.
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11:15:41Unhelpfuli can also see PLA *possibly* working, since combined contexts have a defined precedence, if we actually make the contexts even more simple, but sometimes define actions in them more than once. we might define several buttons as menu or select, for example, and then place a horizontal scrolling context before the one with menu and select, and they end up using whichever of their several definitions the scrolling context doesn't steal.
11:18:27pixelmain general?
11:21:14amiconnUnhelpful: Combining contexts is bound to break on some targets, as shown in the past
11:21:29UnhelpfulPLA working in general? i think a system of even simpler, but overdefined contexts could make it work in more places than it does now... but there will always be things that can't work.
11:21:45pixelmaI'd expect it would not work on all targets and you can't actually find out until you try
11:22:05amiconnThis is due to the fact that the contexts hide which buttons are actually used, and hence one context's actions can shadow actions of the other context(s), which are hence unreachable
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11:22:11Unhelpfulso, best to define my own mappings, and call get_custom_action, then, if i'm not using something that fits to a core context?
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11:23:09bertrikis there an overview somewhere of rockbox targets with line-in?
11:23:16amiconnPLA can be useful for a few contexts. Those contexts must never be combined though. Plugins which have too specific needs to use one such context should use their own context(s)
11:23:27pixelmaman, even the first plugin (bubbles) ever converted to PLA had problems and got ugly exceptions
11:24:23bertrikoh, the BuyersGuide wiki shows info like that
11:24:40amiconnUnhelpful: The list context would probably work for the tracklist. Currently the tracklist behaviour is somewhat confusing
11:25:43Unhelpfulamiconn: you mean the fact that select returns you to the album list? we need to use back for that, for consistency, and because some day select needs to let you play tracks :)
11:26:12amiconnyes
11:26:43amiconnAdding playback start shouldn't be difficult in fact
11:27:23Unhelpfulusing the core's browser context means that there will be a useful back and select key, and vertical scrolling, already defined, right?
11:27:25amiconnIt might require exporting one or two more functions from the core, which can then simply be called with the track name
11:28:07amiconnOf course pf needs to release the audio buffer before starting playback in case it uses this buffer.
11:30:05Unhelpfulright, and then it would need to exit without trying to draw any more covers, since its allocation for them will be trashed
11:31:35Unhelpfulok, so i guess the question is, should i be using PLA with my own custom context, or calling get_custom_action directly? PLA already implements the needed get_context_map, although i think that perhaps a simpler one could be written if there is only ever one context.
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12:38:43robin0800soap think your revision number is perhaps the problem one and not the solution in http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=20849.45
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13:22:44pixelmahrrm... pictureflow.tex actually should now be "enabled" for the bitmap Archos manual and the button table needs to be filled out. I just don't like to do that with the kind of broken controls on Ondio :\
13:23:24pixelmamanuals
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13:32:05pixelmain the lang files - all current "user:" lines should now be "user: core", right?
13:32:39rasherYes. Which reminds me that I should have a look at what my translator does
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13:43:51amiconnUnhelpful: Btw, there seems to be a completely unused function in pf (static inline though, so doesn't end up in the binary): is_empty_rect()
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14:08:49bertrikamiconn, lots of plugins have non-static functions that could be made static
14:09:26bertrikthey're easy to find by compiling with -Wmissing-prototypes
14:09:49amiconnWell, it saves space and it's a bit faster (saving a call if the function is only used once and hence inlined)
14:10:14bertrikI did a cleanup of the codecs some time ago, I wouldn't mind doing the same for plugins
14:10:15amiconnAll single file plugins can have all their functions static'ed, except plugin_start
14:10:41amiconnMulti-file plugins can't, of course
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14:11:10amiconnbleh. Odd warning....
14:11:43bertrikhehe :P
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14:14:16*amiconn ponders reversal, 'cause somehow this static'ing messed up the tracklist display at least on recorder
14:14:27amiconnIf you go to the tracklist display, pf freezes....
14:17:27bertrikmaybe it's a different bug, revealed by making things static
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14:17:52amiconnEeek. On H1x0 pf now crashes right at the start
14:18:33amiconn(panic: stkov main)
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14:26:07FlynDicebertrik: I'll test your rtc patch this morning when I can
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14:59:04Unhelpfulamiconn: i think i cleared out the use of that before the renderer rewrite. it used to draw the center slide first, and use the outermost edge of each slide on screen to clip the next slide. the trouble was, that keeps you from seeing the top of the slide when it would project above the one in front of it.
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14:59:59Unhelpfulfix was to draw from the outside in and overdraw, and it killed all the uses of those rectangle structures
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16:52:15n1samiconn: i wonder, is it a good idea to have a function called "main" in pf?
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19:27:12cellofellowwhere can I find the reverse bootloader for 3.1?
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19:30:37rashercellofellow: That's not provided by Rockbox.
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19:30:53cellofellowit's a hack, though, but the only one I can find is for 2.x.
19:31:14cellofellow(but, all or rb is a hack anyway :)
19:32:09taylor_This may sound crazy - and Im probably wrong. But the 5g ipod can run games from itunes store. Why cant we look at the code from the 5g(since its decrypted) and find out how to encrypt our own binaries?
19:32:56gevaertscellofellow: you didn't say which player you have, but I'm pretty sure it didn't have a 2.x release
19:33:07cellofellowe200
19:33:36Llorean1cellofellow: The reverse bootloader is provided by someone else. This channel is for official Rockbox stuff (things we provide). We don't keep track of other peoples' personal projects, and they're considered off-topic for the channel
19:34:13n1staylor_: i'm not sure what you mean, why would we want to encrypt our own itunes games?
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19:34:29taylor_to run code
19:34:52Lloreantaylor_: We already run code.
19:34:55LloreanWhat do you think Rockbox is?
19:35:08taylor_i Mean on the NEWER ipods
19:35:09n1staylor_: we can already run code on the 5g amd there is nothing that says this encryption would be the same as for newer ipods
19:35:25taylor_3g/4g nano
19:35:33taylor_Its most likely the same
19:35:47taylor_if the same game (for example vortex)
19:36:02Lloreantaylor_: Why would it be the same if, by that point, they knew we had access to the 5G OF _and_ were already taking active measures to make the hardware more secure?
19:36:16taylor_can run on 5g and 6g classic for instance, the code
19:36:20taylor_might be the same
19:36:36taylor_I dont know - it just sounds weird
19:37:37taylor_When you got to the apple download center it says: "games for 3g/4g nano classic, OR fifth generation ipod)
19:38:08taylor_that would suggest then (if you are right) they would have separate apps for different ipod generations
19:38:50LloreanOr that iTunes just does something different when syncing the apps.
19:39:09avisif i were to sell my sansa e270 with rockbox on it, since i installed rockbox on a linux machine logged in with my username, would any other username on another machine, be able to manage rockbox, or the files already located on the device ?
19:39:31Lloreanavis: It's FAT32, it doesn't have that sort of permission system.
19:40:05taylor_Interesting to find out though...
19:40:09taylor_Ill look into this
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20:11:02avisis the rockbox daily build the same as svn ? i updated my rockbox to it, and its not auto mounting for me, was told it had usb features in the svn build, thought the daily build might be it. this is for the e270
20:11:13BigBambiavis: The daily build is just a svn build built at a certain time each day. Get a current build to be bang up-to-date
20:11:46BigBambiBut both a current build and today's daily should have USB
20:12:27avishmm, well i'm guessing i dont need to be bang up to date, just to have my device auto mount. not sure whats wrong then. its got MTP enabled on the OF side, it stopped mounting right after the update to daily build
20:13:37BigBambiThe OF should not affect Rockbox USB
20:13:46BigBambiWhat version does Rockbox report?
20:14:08kadobanavis: rockbox doesn't have MTP, so if you're trying to do something from the OS side in terms of MTP, that won't work
20:14:21avisr2026
20:14:42Lloreanavis: Do you mean the original firmware's not automounting?
20:14:58avisnope. the rockbox firmware doesn't mount
20:15:05avislet me sudo fdisk -l
20:15:34avissudo fdisk -l doesn't see it either. it charges though
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20:17:15avisgot a mount point through the official firmware. that a relief
20:18:56Lloreanavis: What SVN revision are you running, I don't want to try to guess where the typo was in the number you gave before.
20:19:16avisi think i just may have to continue using that usb test build i had. it was somewhat recent
20:19:44avisi'm using daily build r20226
20:20:01LloreanWhy didn't you download the current build instead?
20:20:27avisperhaps i should have. these build things confuse me
20:20:59avisi'll try the current build
20:21:53LloreanIs it the text in RBUtil that's confusing, or what?
20:22:09avisno i'm not using rbutil
20:22:39LloreanI don't think we even link to the daily build from the front page
20:24:03LloreanHow'd you end up there?
20:24:44avisi had followed it from a svn link
20:24:57LloreanWhat do you mean "a svn link"?
20:24:59avisyep the current built works great for auto mounting .
20:25:37LloreanDoes our website link to the daily builds somewhere other than the current build page?
20:26:23avislet me see
20:27:42avisthere is a daily snapshots link from the "using svn" page
20:27:55avisthat took me to the daily build page
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20:29:54LloreanAh, from a development page.
20:30:04avisregardless, the current build works great. thank you
20:30:43avisits sometimes difficult for me to communicate because of my medication. :) sorry about that
20:31:16Unhelpfuln1s: that main is probably a relic of the PC version, i would think. it could always be renamed or made static, but i don't really see what harm it could cause...
20:32:08n1sUnhelpful: ok, i was just curious, it seems a bit strange to me but if it's no problem
20:32:30Unhelpfulthere's a *lot* that's strange inside PF :)
20:33:42Lloreanavis: I'm removing that from the page anyway. It has nothing to do with using SVN (in fact, using SVN is something you do because you don't want to download the daily tarball)
20:34:55avisyep
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22:14:00Rabbit^^I am having to return a now DEAD View to Sandisk. When I receive my replacement, what are the "firmware" files I need to copy to the root directory?
22:15:17LloreanRabbit^^: The view isn't supported by Rockbox yet.
22:16:22 Quit kugel ("ChatZilla 0.9.84-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.7/2009030516]")
22:17:07Rabbit^^Some people have gotten it to go on View according to posts in Sansa forums at Sandisk. I, unfortunately, do not know of a way to chat with Sandisk, except via e-mail or phone.
22:19:23LloreanThere's development work going on. It's not ready to be used yet. If you want to get involved with development, you can read the thread in the New Ports forum and see how far it's come, and the instructions for doing what can be done so far.
22:19:41Rabbit^^Okay.
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22:39:32***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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23:09:07amiconnn1s: It isn't. Having main() in a shared object/dll sometimes causes weird effects, e.g. on cygwin
23:09:35amiconnBut the more puzzling part is why static'ing the functions causes pf to crash/hang
23:10:32saratogaI see Newegg has Fuzes quite cheap, at least in north america
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