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#rockbox log for 2009-03-08

00:00:29Wraith|okay so i have a question here. i won a cheepo mp3 player from one of the sponsors at a competition i took part in. i have no (official) manufacturer or model number. the only items i could find are as foolowed, Leeds' ASI/66887 Item 1660-30BK PO 108761. any chance i may be able to hack/edit the firmware or change it?
00:01:08Bagderchance: yes easily: no very hard work: yes
00:01:37Wraith|how would i go about it, and is there a chance that there is projects out the on it?
00:02:31linuxstbhttp://www.rockbox.org/wiki/NewPort
00:02:53Wraith|thanks
00:03:08Bagderhttp://www.leedsworld.com/products/item/?item=1660-30 <= is it this one?
00:03:30zelooks made-for-promos hehe
00:04:27Wraith|Bagder it looks very similar
00:04:30Wraith|could very well be it
00:04:56Wraith|numbers match, so yes it is it
00:06:38Bagderyeah, it seems hard to track any firmware downloads for that anywhere, possibly it can't even be upgraded
00:07:21Wraith|i agree. the manual (mostly in chinese) says how to upgrade firmware, but not if it is upgradeable
00:07:34Bagderoh that's what I meant
00:08:12 Join toffe82 [0] (n=chatzill@adsl-99-130-5-139.dsl.frs2ca.sbcglobal.net)
00:10:58bluebrotherBagder: seen the links to rbutil 1.1 of yesterday?
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00:12:13toffe82can somebody look at the firmware of this player : http://www.p4c.philips.com/cgi-bin/dcbint/cpindex.pl?scy=GB&slg=ENG&cat=MP3_PLAYERS_CA&sct=HDD_AUDIO_JUKEBOX_SU&grp=PORTABLE_ENTERTAINMENT_GR&session=20090307175919_99.130.5.139&ctn=HDD070/17&mid=Link_ProductInformation&hlt=Link_ProductInformation
00:12:22Bagderno, only been back for a few hours... got them now!
00:12:35toffe82it is a fwimage.ebn , is it a portal player ?
00:13:03toffe82the update is : Encrypted_FWImage_HDD070_4.41d.ebn
00:13:04Bagdertoffe82: yes, that's the typical philips name of the mi4 files
00:13:23toffe82I think I can get one cheap
00:13:23Bagder(the .ebn I mean)
00:13:24LloreanBagder: Do we know that they only use it for MI4 files? It might just be a standard extension they use?
00:13:33Bagderyeah, it could
00:14:36LloreanThough at least odds seem good it's an MI4
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00:17:09Wraith|i think im going to take a leap and say this is beyond me
00:17:30Wraith|im more into the programming area rather than the hardware
00:18:03Bagderrockbox is mostly about the programming area... but with an understanding of the hw
00:18:23Bagderbut yes, a new port is a daunting task
00:18:55Wraith|especially when i have no information about the current firmware :(
00:19:15Wraith|the firmware updatin software wont even recognize the device :\
00:21:09 Quit gromit` (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
00:21:53Wraith|man this is depressing
00:22:03toffe82what player ?
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00:22:30Wraith|i've been itching to try a project like this. but my cell phone has few hacks, except WAP and color swapping, my ipod is encrypted firmware, and now this wont work
00:22:32 Nick pixelma_ is now known as pixelma (n=pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma)
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00:22:38Wraith|toffe82, http://www.leedsworld.com/products/item/?item=1660-30
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00:24:21Wraith|i guess ill try AT comunications with my phone
00:24:32rasherWhat kind of info do we want to save for themes when doing checkwps? Individual SVN revisions, or just "current" and "release x.y"?
00:24:36rasherOn the themesite
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00:26:52Lloreanrasher: Save?
00:27:11bluebrotherrasher: how about "release" and svn revision?
00:27:13LloreanI think the only thing we need to test against is current and "last stable"
00:28:01gevaertsWe probably want to know which specific revision was tested
00:28:16*rasher thinks for a bit
00:28:20gevaerts(unless you retest on every revision)
00:28:31LloreanMaybe we should just retest every release, and not worry about in-between.
00:29:19rasherWe'd need to have an updated checkwps anyway, or we'd not be able to accept themes that use features added since the last release
00:30:23rasherOkay, so test against "release" and "current", and remember which revision "current" refers to (and re-test all themes against "current" once a day/week/something)
00:30:31LloreanDaily checks? "Good as of <date> and with Stable <release number>"
00:30:44LloreanOr weelky
00:31:02LloreanBut instead of SVN revisions, we could just use a date since it's not going to be too precisely useful anyway.
00:31:39LloreanA lot of people will have no clue about SVN revisions anyway. The theme site is *probably* going to be more widely seen than just about anything else.
00:31:50LloreanThough...
00:32:12LloreanIf we could build checkwps binaries with every commit in the distributed system, rbutil could verify WPSes when it downloads them, too.
00:32:32rasherHow?
00:32:47gevaertsI'm not sure if we need the revision number for user purposes. I just think it's useful to store it in case weird things happen
00:32:49LloreanCouldn't rbutil download checkwps?
00:33:04rasherLlorean: We'd need to build checkwps for Linux{*}, OS X, Windows..
00:33:20Lloreanrasher: Ah, true.
00:33:41Lloreanrasher: Maybe we need a way to separate the "rules" from the binary
00:33:58rasherI just don't think rbutil should meddle with this
00:34:02LloreanThen rbutil could have its own validation, and just download the latest rule text.
00:34:11LloreanWell, if RBUtil installs themes that don't work, people will file bugs.
00:34:23rasherBut the themesite will make sure it doesn't!
00:34:28Lloreanrasher: Not really.
00:34:32rasherWhy not?
00:34:47LloreanIf you last ran the check 5 days ago, and the WPS syntax changed 3 days ago, they can download broken themes.
00:34:56rasherSo we check every day instead.
00:35:08LloreanThat just narrows the window, but it is much better.
00:35:14Lloreanis there one specific file that defines WPS syntax?
00:35:24LloreanWould it be possible to just re-run the check when that file changes?
00:35:55rashergwps.c or something like that.. I think it's easier to just do it every day, and have an option to manually re-run
00:36:14amiconnAaarrrgh!
00:36:21Lloreanrasher: Ought to be good enough.
00:36:58amiconnapps/gui/bitmap/list.c uses the drawmode field of viewports to store the text styles instead of the drawmode
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00:37:22amiconnNot wonder my extension for forced background drawing breaks in lists
00:38:23amiconnWhere's JdGordon when you want to slap him??
00:39:34***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:41:58*toffe82 just bought a gogear hdd070-17 to complete his collection :)
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00:56:33bluebrotherLlorean: if a theme gets broken by a wps change but not flagged "immediately" we'd get bugs reported against the theme site as well
00:56:52bluebrotherbesides, if a user is installing a current build he should be aware of possible hiccups
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00:57:09bluebrotherthe possibility for hiccups that is
00:57:15LloreanYeah
00:57:26LloreanAlso, what to do if say 3.2, and SVN have different compatibility requirements.
00:57:42 Quit DC1 ("$4e75")
00:57:47LloreanShould we keep two versions around if one verifies with the release, and one with SVN?
00:57:53bluebrotherthat's a different issue. We'd need to separate releases from svn
00:58:15bluebrothercurrently we don't do this for anything except the main build. Which isn't the best thing either
01:00
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01:24:41linuxstbrasher: Why not run all checkwpses for all the targets you think the theme applies to (dragging the talk from -community...)
01:25:09rasherI guess that works, actually
01:25:28scorchehrm...that brings up a question...what should we be doing when a patch changing the WPS syntax goes through?...should we be keeping the themes for the site compatible with the release, SVN, or find a way to do both?
01:25:58rasherBoth.
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01:26:26LloreanFor each them have either one or two copies, one if it validates with both (or a new copy isn't available), two if the old validates with the release still, and the new validates with SVN?
01:26:56scorcheand then have a checkbox or something on the site to enable viewing of either versions?
01:27:07rasherscorche: something like that
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02:38:21plutonianis it possible to get my rockbox ipod to play on ipod speakers that use the ipod's usb port to play music?
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02:39:38***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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02:42:52plutonianalso
02:42:59plutonianrockbox can no longer put my ipod into disk mode
02:43:15plutonianit shows the "USB connected" screen
02:43:20plutonianbut it never reboots into disk mode
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02:49:48perrikwpplutonian: Rockbox uses its own USB mode now, if you use a current version
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03:32:38*Unhelpful actually thinks that PF only needs custom contexts at all for non-scrollwheel targets - the scrollwheel ones can also use the list context for the albums, with "down" as right and "up" as left
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04:57:44ElkHey, I recently installed Rockbox on my iPod Video and while I love it and it's working great I've got one problem
04:58:04ElkWhen I hold down play to turn it off nothing happens
04:58:14ElkCan anyone shed some light on this?
05:00
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05:06:48soapdoes the play button work in every other way, Elk?
05:07:11Elk2Yes, yes it does
05:07:59Elk2but when I try to hold it down to put it into sleep nothing happens
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05:10:58scorchefirst off, rockbox doesnt have a sleep mode (it just shuts off)...secondly, how long are you holding the button for?
05:11:23ElkA fairly long time
05:11:35ElkI thought it was just a shut off
05:11:54Elkjust how long am I supposed to hold it?
05:12:52saratogacouple seconds
05:13:13Elkyeah, it's definitely not working
05:13:34Elknot only that, the auto-off feature doesn't seem to work either
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05:14:25Alex00088I have to reinstall Ubuntu. Can I just copy my Rockbox folder onto an external drive, then copy it back after re-installing Ubuntu?
05:14:43scorche.....huh?
05:15:12scorcheElk: that sounds odd...have you tried both the latest SVN version and the lastest release?
05:16:07ElkI have whatever it is they have at http://www.rockbox.org/download/
05:17:00scorchecould you try the latest version whish is here? http://build.rockbox.org/
05:17:00soapThat's the latest release.
05:17:03Alex00088I have a new motherboard, and modem. I haven't got the modem working in Ubuntu yet, and I don't know if I will . IIRC rockboxdev had do download some things when I installed it.
05:17:11scorchethough the release should be fine..
05:17:30soapAlex00088: it downloads the cross compilers.
05:17:38scorcheAlex00088: rockboxdev.sh built the crosscompilers for you
05:17:43soapSo you need to back up them as well.
05:17:52Alex00088are where are they?
05:17:55scorcheor just run rockboxdev.sh again
05:17:57Alex00088*-are
05:18:14Elkwait, so I should install the latest build?
05:18:39scorcheElk: well, the release should work, but try the latest build for kicks and giggles
05:18:46Alex00088scorche: I don't have internet in Ubuntu
05:19:15Elkugh, I don't feel like that right now
05:19:31Elkis there anything else I can do?
05:20:34Alex00088If explaining where the crosscomilers is would take a long time, how about - Is there a package I can download in Windows?
05:21:48soapElk: since you are using the widespread release version, and nobody else has reported this strange problem, the odds are your "Play" button is doing something abnormal.
05:22:06scorcheor that you are doing something wrong
05:22:12soapPerhaps it is bouncing. If you are in the WPS, with a track playing, and press and hold "Play" - what happens?
05:22:44soapYou could also boot into Apple Diagnostic Mode and test your buttons.
05:23:19Elkmy play button pauses music just fine
05:23:34soapBut, this is very unlikely to be directly a Rockbox issue. If I Had To Guess I'd say the issue is your Play button is failing and that you only see the issue in Rockbox because Apple firmware does not make use of a long press of Play anywhere in the UI.
05:23:55ElkI forget how to boot into diagnostic mode
05:23:59soapgoogle.
05:24:10Elkright
05:24:22scorcheElk: if you hold it while playing, does it stop the music and return you to the file browser or database?
05:24:40soapI groked that you had no trouble pausing - I was curious what happened on a long press of play in the WPS - i was curious if the track would pause and unpause during one consistent press.
05:24:42scorcheAlex00088: well, rockboxdev.sh typically installs them to /usr/local/<arch here>-elf/bin, but there may be other issues, like your new ubuntu installation not including packages that you might need
05:25:19The-Compilerws 14
05:25:21The-Compileroops
05:25:26soapbinutils, build-essentials
05:25:33ElkIt pauses and brings me back to the menu
05:25:46scorcheok...and now try and hold play again
05:26:03soapok, going back to the menu is a long press - so that is registering.
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05:26:54ElkI was holding it for like ten seconds
05:26:55Martyn_Hey all.
05:26:58Elknothing happened
05:27:04Martyn_Is there a way to format the SD card in a sansa running rockbox?
05:27:17saratogano you have to format on a PC
05:27:26Martyn_I have one that has an ext2 filesystem on it from previous experimentation on a phone...
05:27:31Martyn_Oh, poodles.
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05:27:45Martyn_thanks :)
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05:28:59soapok, Elk, I take back my earlier suspicion about the button acting up. I still think you should test, though, as it is an easy way to rule out one possibility.
05:29:26Elkso go into diagnostic mode?
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05:37:13ElkI went into diagnostic mode and did the button test
05:37:46Elkit registers that I've pressed play but I don't know how to test for long presses
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06:00
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06:01:07mollybeeharu!
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06:02:21mollybee<−− sansa player newb pimping Ubuntu on her lapdancer, wants to install rockbox for a good time
06:02:40mollybeetrouble is, I can't open the utility thingy
06:02:55mollybeeoh, and btw, am toadally tecknologickally inept, kthx
06:02:59mollybeehalp!
06:04:17Unhelpfulok, pictureflow input rework is FS #9992. i'd appreciate a look from any of the people who had keymap problems in it... it works on my two targets and on the sims i've tried so far, except the M3, which doesn't sim remote buttons
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06:05:17scorchemollybee: first off, we ask people to speak real english in here due to machine translators, logging, etc...secondly, what happens when you try to run it?...and i assume that you downloaded the one from download.rockbox.org?
06:05:43mollybeeyes yes, just reading your guidelines, thank you most kindly!
06:06:04mollybeeI was too excited to follow directions!
06:07:07mollybeeI loaded down the version of Rockbox Utility for the linux 32 bit system, as I am uncertain if I have 64 bit capabilities.
06:07:51mollybeeI also loaded down the version of the object of my desire for my model, Sansa c200
06:08:56scorcherockbox utility should do that for you, however what happens when you try and run it?
06:09:13mollybeeWhen I attempt to open the Utility off of my laptop running Hardy Heron version of Ubuntu, I get a blank box with zero options for opening.
06:09:37mollybeeit is a most perplexing state of affairs!
06:11:14mollybeethe file is titled rbutilqt, and when I click twice on the icon, naught occurs aside from an "open files" window with nary an option.
06:13:33mollybeeMy dearth of technological expertise is an unfortunate obstacle I wish to overcome with your gracious aid, if you would indulge me.
06:17:50 Quit planetbeing_ ()
06:20:49mollybeeIs anyone available to help with a initial Rockbox Utility opening issue on a machine running Ubuntu?
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06:25:50mollybeeMost genial of you, but I've scant time at the dwindling moment. Perchance we shall meet anon! A million pardons for my most base intrusion.
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06:48:13Keripoanyone planning to get a Pandora?
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06:59:47soapwhy is "Time and Date" under System instead of Settings?
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07:01:49JdGordon_soap: i guess because of when it was moved out of the rockbox info screen
07:02:04JdGordon_system is a bit of an od name for that menu item anyway
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07:04:44soapMy gut reaction is that it should be under the Settings menu somewhere.
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07:25:04JdGordonrasher: the wps tokens are all specified in apps/gui/wps_parser.c
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08:28:07soapoff to guam - smell you all later!
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10:49:42amiconnJdGordon: ping
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12:36:23BXCracerHello everyone, i read that funman needs a >2gb v1 clip and that he cant find one in EU. i have one 4GB V1 clip but i i am not wiling to donate it because it's the only player that i have, although i can sell it cheaply if you the developer really need it
12:37:29scorche|shi think he already has a device heading to him
12:37:51BXCraceroh everything is fine then
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12:41:03Unhelpfulhrm... it looks as if a plugin calling get_custom_action can define a context that defines only a few buttons, and chains to a core context, but this can fail in several ways due to different meanings of CONTEXT_CUSTOM
12:42:30BXCracerfound out that saratoga send him a fuze. So if funman needs a clip please dont hesitate and ask, i will get him one cheaply
12:43:37Unhelpfulcore contexts use CONTEXT_CUSTOM, but it's also the flag used by callers of get_custom_action to indicate that the custom button map function be called to get the next context. i think that the latter case needs a new flag, so that chains to arbitrary core contexts won't have unexpected side effects
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12:52:47*bertrik is getting confused by the ams sansa RTC usage
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13:06:39pixelmaUnhelpful: looking at your pf "input" patch - is ACTION_STD_OK used to select the album in the new pf context?
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13:21:30Unhelpfulyes... would it be better to define PF_* actions that are identical to the core actions, and use those names?
13:25:49pixelmamaybe, I just tried to understand what actions are needed and how they are called to understand the mapping (thought that the Ondio keymap looked unintuitive IIUC)
13:26:04pixelmalots of understanding there...
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13:44:19Unhelpfulthe very-few-buttons devices are going to be a bit tricky, because horizontal scrolling isn't like any core contexts, and they don't have so many buttons that there are five or six that all mean "select"
13:47:03*gevaerts should work on the meizu M3 again...
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13:49:00Unhelpfulvery strange things happen if i try to chain from a custom context to a core one :/
13:55:30*amiconn likes it when fixing a bug causes a green delta :)
13:59:48pixelmaUnhelpful: I don't get your "select" statement
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14:00:42Unhelpfulpixelma: targets with huge numbers of buttons can safely change only the left/right buttons, because they have other buttons mapped to ACTION_STD_OK
14:02:55pixelmahmm... so the context is chained to a core context?
14:04:14Unhelpfulit's not, right now. it just includes all the other buttons, usually mapped similarly to core contexts. :/
14:05:34bertrikwould it be possible to detect unused #includes in source files?
14:05:54Unhelpfuli'm *trying* to chain to a core context, but very strange things happen, like the next call to get_custom_action somehow processing the same button again, and falling through to the core context, where (on my beast) it finds BUTTON_LEFT mapped to ACTION_STD_CANCEL, and then pf exits. :/
14:08:26Unhelpfulpressing the power button, which maps in the chained CONTEXT_TREE to ACTION_TREE_STOP, ends up shutting off the device, even though it's a press, not a hold. :/
14:08:30pixelmaI don't understand why this is :/ . IMO if you have something non-standard, do your own thing and be done with it. Of course it's harder in the beginning and won't work well on some targets but at least people who know a target better have an easier way to fix
14:10:02pixelmameant as a reply to the "it's not chained right now"
14:12:30Unhelpfuli'm inclined to think, though, that if chaining can work properly, it makes more sense on *most* targets to only define the left/right scroll, and define a complete, unchained context in the plugin only for targets where chaining can't work neatly... for example, if left/right buttons are the *only* ok/cancel.
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14:16:49pixelmaleft is used almost everywhere (every target, in a lot of screens) as cancel, so it looks like it won't be easy to make it work properly
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14:17:35funmanhello
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14:18:49Unhelpfulyes, but i don't really get why it ever falls through to the chained context - get_action_worker pretty clearly breaks and returns on matching
14:18:50bertrikhi funman
14:19:45bertrikhm, some sources could indeed use an #include cleanup
14:19:54funmani want to get back into sansa ams hacking ;)
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14:20:50bertrikfunman, you're more than welcome!
14:20:54funmani already found some interesting SD code in the OF, now I just wait the Fuze to run some tests
14:21:00joejchow do i get playlists on my ipod?
14:21:37funmanunfortunately I only have sporadic internet access and I'm using an old checkout of rockbox so I don't think I can keep in sync with recent development
14:24:07funmanbertrik: I saw that the status of Sansa AMS didn't change (on the TargetStatus wiki page), really nothing new ? :(
14:24:48pixelmaUnhelpful: are your actions defined exactly the same, with pre condition and release or repeat events?
14:24:49gevaertsfunman: I think the only really new thing is that we probably have a datasheet for the USB controller
14:25:15pixelmajoejc: what kind of playlists and how did you create them?
14:25:32bertrikfunman, just minor stuff like radio, charging, big issues like reliable sd access have not been looked at
14:26:04Unhelpfulyes, the beast keymap file isn't using preconditions for those at all
14:26:21Unhelpfulor release
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14:26:35bertrikthere's been a lot of "tinkering" on getting buttons/wheel to work on the fuze/e200v2
14:26:43funmangevaerts: interesting, I download the documents
14:26:44joejcsongbird playlist, or m3us, or pls
14:28:20scorche|shjoejc: as we mention across the site and in the manual, rockobx supports m3u playlists
14:28:34joejchow do i get them to work?
14:29:10scorche|shyou just play them...as i mentioned before, this kind of stuff is talked about in the manual..
14:29:31joejcthey dont play
14:29:46scorche|shwhat do they do?
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14:29:55joejcnothing
14:30:01scorche|shdefine "nothing"
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14:30:56bertrikwhat does it mean when AB_REPEAT_ENABLE == 2? there is an #ifdef that checks for it, but nowhere is the value 2 actually set nor explained
14:31:08joejci select play is acts like its going to play them goes back to file
14:31:40pixelmaUnhelpful: testing your patch on my Ondio (changed button actions for "selecting" the album to a short press of menu and calling the menu with a long press of menu) I get the following weird thing (IMO): trying to back out of the tracklist with "left" puts me into the menu and doesn't exit to the album view as I expected
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14:32:16Unhelpfulthat is weird, because in the track list CONTEXT_TREE is used
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14:33:02funmanbertrik: I'll try to get an up to date tree because kugel committed some work about buttons I think
14:33:52pixelmabertrik: on some targets it's possible to set the A and the B marker directly and seperately with an own button. On others you cycle through set A marker, set B marker (and reset?) with the same button in some "setting" mode
14:33:55funmanI had understood from the forum that now buttons and wheel worked correctly
14:35:05*pixelma has an idea
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14:41:04gevaertsOK. It's pretty clear now why safely remove hardware doesn't properly go back to "normal" mode. The going back is triggered on eject instead of on allow medium removal. This shouldn't be too hard to fix
14:41:45joejcwhat will treat my ipod as a mass storage mp3 player instead of a ipod?
14:43:05gevaertsUnfortunately, unless we drop windows support, this won't work on the beast. Windows (or any other OS) won't send either eject or allow medium removal commands to non-removable devices, *and* it doesn't support two partitions on removable devices
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14:44:54joejcwho needs windows?
14:44:57Unhelpfulgevaerts: bootloader-in-flash would apparently be the only way to do that on beast... hrm, does windows behave differently if only one of the partitions is visible? or does having two partition table entries do it?
14:45:03linuxstbHmm, so maybe using a fake partition table and only exposing the sectors for the second partition would be a better solution for the beast?
14:45:16linuxstb(for "normal" USB mode)
14:45:21gevaertsUnhelpful: I need to test that
14:45:49linuxstbUnhelpful: Why do we need the bootloader in flash?
14:46:43Unhelpfullinuxstb: i didn't think of editing out the existence of the boot partition entirely... and getting into flash on beast seems to be the only way we can *actually* remove the boot partition.
14:47:57linuxstbWe control ums mode, so can expose whatever we want... The e200r for example does the same thing (only exposes the main partition, not the firmware partition).
14:48:02linuxstb(the e200r OF)
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14:49:15Unhelpfulhow would we update the firmware then? only in bootloader usb mode, or only via OF + sendfirm?
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14:50:56linuxstbIn Rockbox's MTP mode ;)
14:51:54linuxstbWe could even do something similar to many OFs - if a file with a specific name exists in the root directory, move it to the firmware partition on boot.
14:52:19Unhelpfulhrm, yes, that might work, as well.
14:52:24amiconnImo we should just hide the firmware partition. This woul dcause windows (and probably linux) to not mount it, yet it can be mounted manually (I think) and tools can still access it
14:53:01Lloreangevaerts: So what does it send when you "Safely Remove" the beast? Nothing?
14:53:07Unhelpfulamiconn: gevaerts is trying to make RB USB mode work as a removable drive... we're not sure yet if hiding is sufficient for that.
14:53:19linuxstbamiconn: gevaerts said that WIndows apparently doesn't like removable drives with multiple partitions. This is a way around that (see 10 minutes ago in the logs)
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14:56:10UnhelpfulahHAH... chaining to "CONTEXT_TREE" doesn't get me the context_tree table on beast... that needs to be CONTEXT_TREE|CONTEXT_CUSTOM, another reason that CONTEXT_CUSTOM should not be the flag used by get_custom_action
14:59:28linuxstbgevaerts: Isn't this a problem on most targets though? i.e. don't lots of them have a partition table and multiple partitions?
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15:01:03amiconnWindows *does* support removable devices with a partition table, just not multiple actual partitions
15:01:58Unhelpfulright, but is marking a partition hidden sufficient for windows to allow the device as removable?
15:01:59amiconnThere must be a way to detect safe removal even if the device does not identify as a removable device
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15:03:16amiconnThe iAudios don't identify as removable device, yet the bridge indicates when the device was removed safely, and the cowon loader's disk mode displays that information
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15:08:02ipoodhello
15:08:10ipoodis this the right place to get some help with rockbox?
15:08:17linuxstbYes, just ask.
15:08:22ipoodcool
15:08:42ipoodwell i've installed it all fine but when I goto database it says its not initialised so i press select
15:08:55ipoodthen it says found blah blah and then after a while the ipod freezes
15:09:04ipoodI've tried stable and svn builds but still the same prob
15:09:44bertrikdo we have any policy on #include files? like having #include files including other #include files they need? and who #includes the master config.h file (needed to know which features are enabled)?
15:10:12linuxstbipood: Yes, that happens to some people. Either your disk is corrupted (check it with something like chkdsk) or you have one (or more) files that for some reason Rockbox chokes on.
15:10:44Learamiconn: Does the Ondio have any special multivolume handling? Rather, do you have any idea why the Ondio FM sim would not have the strip_volume function?
15:10:50linuxstbbertrik: I don't think there's any written policy, but IMO it's good practice to always include everything you need (and no more).
15:11:06amiconnLear: Sims don't simulate multivolume
15:11:27bertrikfor example, playlist.c is #including abrepeat.h which in turn #includes system.h/kernel.h, so playlist.c gets the cpu_boost prototype only indirectly via abrepeat.h
15:11:46bertrik(and abrepeat.h itself doesn't really need it)
15:11:58linuxstbbertrik: Cleaning up these includes would be very nice...
15:12:26Learamiconn: Well, HAVE_MULTIVOLUME appears to be set for that sim, at least in bookmark.c (but not dir_uncached.c)...
15:12:36bertriklinuxstb, ok, I'll work a bit on that
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15:14:36ipoodlinuxstb my ipod file system just got corrupted, does it happen often with rockbox?
15:15:03Unhelpfulpixelma: it looks like the cause of your ondio problem may be similar - ondio maps CONTEXT_TREE|CONTEXT_CUSTOM to button_context_tree, and that's not what i'm using.
15:15:09linuxstbipood: No. Rockbox's filesystem code has been stable for about 5 or 6 years...
15:15:29linuxstbBut you always need to make sure you cleanly eject your ipod when using USB.
15:16:50pixelmaUnhelpful: is there a quick fix I could try?
15:16:51ipoodlinuxstb are the files in ipod control usually ok to be used in the database. I'm just going to format to fat32 and then rebuild my itunes music db
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15:18:57gevaertslinuxstb: whta needs testing is if marking the partition as hidden FAT works. At least type 0 ("empty") does work, as that's what ipods have.
15:19:14Unhelpfulpixelma: change the get_action(CONTEXT_TREE) to get_action(CONTEXT_TREE|CONTEXT_CUSTOM)
15:19:53Unhelpfuli'm working up another patch to not reuse the CONTEXT_CUSTOM tag in get_custom_context, since it prevents chaining to core contexts that use it.
15:20:47linuxstbgevaerts: And the Sansas have "0x84 - OS/2 hidden C: drive" So it may work...
15:20:58linuxstb(although that's the second partition...)
15:21:07gevaertslinuxstb: the sansas don't count. They have the firmware partition at the end :)
15:21:15linuxstbYes, I just remembered...
15:21:39linuxstbipood: Music copied from itunes will be put in iPod_Control. And yes, the database should scan that happily.
15:21:52gevaertsAnyway, hidden FAT would be nicest I think, but if that doesn't work 0 works. Not a huge difference as far as the code is concerned...
15:23:08linuxstbSo the plan is to do this on-the-fly? Will Rockbox USB reject attempts to write to that partition, or should we just let them through? (let the user hang him/herself...)
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15:24:31n1slinuxstb: i'd say "let them hang" :)
15:24:42n1sand let me kill it if i want to!
15:25:01gevaertsMaybe a debug menu item that disables the on-the-fly changing?
15:25:58n1si still like the button press in the bootloader to show the partition
15:27:05gevaertsyes. I think we need a way in both the bootloader and rockbox to allow plain no-changes access. In rockbox I think the debug menu is good enough, and I guess a button press is the only way that works in the bootloader
15:27:53LloreanAnd for "user" purposes, we'll document the bootloader one in the manual?
15:28:12n1sis this something we *need* to have for the release?
15:29:20gevaertsI don't think so. The *only* thing that doesn't work right now is the go-back-to-normal-mode-on-disconnect feature
15:30:12gevaertsI'd like to try and fix that today for removable devices, but even if I don't manage that I don't think it's critical in any way
15:30:33n1sok, so all we really need for the beast to be releaseble is an official bootloader/beastpatcher release?
15:30:59*gevaerts thinks that the "my ipod doesn't charge" issues are much more serious
15:31:35gevaertsn1s: a *documented* bootloader/beastpatcher release :)
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15:33:00*gevaerts thinks that we need a manual for targets to be released. That manual doesn't necessarily have to be complete though, except for the installation section
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15:34:30pixelmaUnhelpful: unless I did something stupid, that change did not help
15:37:21linuxstbgevaerts: We do have a manual for the beast. But yes, beastpatcher still needs work on both OS X and Windows.
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15:37:58gevaertsActually, I'm not sure if this safely remove fix will work well. It would mean that just unmounting a device will leave MSC mode. That's not really nice for people like me who like to unmount and remount now and then.
15:38:03n1slinuxstb: is it realisyic to expect it to be workign well enough for the release?
15:38:20linuxstbn1s: Only if someone works on it...
15:38:49gevaertsUnless we forcibly grab the disk back when the OS tries to mount again, but I don't like that very much either
15:38:53n1slinuxstb: yes, what needs to be done?
15:39:43linuxstbn1s: Getting it working on OS X and Windows... For OS X, the problem is getting it to build and statically link with libmtp and libusb.
15:39:52linuxstb(it should just work once compiled)
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15:41:25linuxstbFor Windows, it is currently working using the external MTP_DLL.dll, but it would be much nicer to compile it as a single .exe. It could also benefit from implementing the same API in MTP_DLL.dll that is used by beastpatcher with libmtp - i.e. an Init() function, then a scan() function, then an upload() function, then a close() function. Currently MTP_DLL.dll just has a single "upload" function.
15:41:32n1sotoh, would it be bad to release 3.2 for the beast at a later date if everything is not done?
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15:42:26linuxstbI think it's probably too late anyway for a nice release. We would also want rbutil to support the Beast, and to have the install method tested a little.
15:42:46linuxstbThe important thing is just to get it to "supported" status.
15:43:09n1syes, i agree, and that can be done before 3.3
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15:43:19gevaertsn1s: if that means building the release together with all others and just releasing the nice installers later, I think I'm fine with that. If it means doing everything later, then no
15:44:56linuxstbI think we need to agree on the bootloader functionality as well. i.e. how it reacts when it's booted with a usb cable (or usb charger) attached. Currently booting with a usb charger will cause it to wait indefinitely for a usb connection...
15:44:59n1sgevaerts: that's what i had i mind but i think i like linuxstb's idea better, just make it "supported" once the install is nice enough
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15:46:38*linuxstb thinks he would prefer the bootloader to always boot into rockbox, if rockbox.gigabeat exists. This would be overridden by a button-press to enter usb bootloader mode.
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15:47:51linuxstbAnd it seems confirmed that v1.2 beasts don't like the single-boot bootloader...
15:49:25gevaertsluckily 1.2 is the version where you can download the OF...
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15:51:25gevaertsMy proposal for the safely remove issue is to not touch it for 3.2, and later on leave USB mode if the host isn't using anything and a button is pressed
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15:51:55*gevaerts thinks that it's a bit late to add new button press things one day before the freeze
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15:53:36pixelmaLear: there's also a config-ondiosp.h (its sim is not in the table though)
15:54:20n1sLear: shouldn't FS #9980 be closed now?
15:54:52Unhelpfulpixelma: perhaps i didn't communicate it clearly... i'll have to fix the patch itself later, i'll post a new one then. thanks for trying it out. :)
15:55:15kugelLear: any further thoughts on FS #8523?
15:55:35Learn1s: Yes, just haven't got around to it (doing some paperwork right now)
15:55:55Learpixelma: Well, it didn't cause any reds, so... :)
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16:00
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16:00:19Learkugel: Well, to tell the truth I haven't followed the latest changes all that closely. One comment from a quick look though: I never saw a need to quickly force an update when the LCD was enabled again. The normal update was quick enough, I thought.
16:01:12kugelLear: Me too, but it's cleaner this way, since we can also force a full update. The older way, it was more or less random, since it depended on the next update
16:02:21kugelAnd, while we may think it's not needed, other people would consider it as a bug.
16:03:37kugelLear: I'd commit it in this state, if you don't mind. But after 3.2 and after talking to jhMikeS once more :)
16:04:00kugelit surely needs some testing too. I'm not entirely sure how it interacts with remotes now
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16:04:43Learkugel: That could work, yes. I'm not that familiar with the driver stuff...
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16:20:35bertrikmeh, some #include files dependencies seem really complicated. Trying to clean this up is going to take a lot of time and only little result.
16:20:36rasherI don't understand these changes http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/rdiff/Main/AlbumArt?rev1=62;rev2=61
16:21:36rasherSeems to go from more information to less
16:25:28rasherHm.
16:26:28gevaertsWas the manual changed around the same time?
16:28:46gevaertsrasher: apparently the removed link is broken
16:29:16gevaertshm, is it?
16:29:41rasherI can't tell what's going on. One of the links are broken
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16:49:32bubihi, i try to use some parts of the ipodmini 1g for my own mp3 player. At the moment i'm trying to find out how the touchwheel and the lcd are attached to the core. Are there any hardware docs, where i can find protocols, pining ...?
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16:53:56kugelweeh, insert is indeed broken
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17:00
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17:03:41Kejlsnguys, which program do u recomand for transfer FLAC-files to your iPod ?
17:04:05*gevaerts wonders who u might be
17:04:20KejlsnSongbird doesnt work for me. only mp3's
17:04:22Kejlsnwhat?
17:04:26krazykit`Kejlsn, "cp"
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17:05:32gevaertsKejlsn: who is this "u" you speak of?
17:06:33Kejlsnhaha, skojar du med mig jävla horunge? sug kuk.
17:07:19Kejlsnoh sry, english isnt my native? language
17:07:42LearStill, this isn't the place for that kind of language.
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17:07:52gevaertsthe point is, our guidelines ask for real words, so no "u" or "sry" please
17:08:16gevaertsAnyway, to answer your question, I use cp or cpio, depending on my mood and how many files I need to copy
17:09:13KejlsnHmm, Okey. Gonna make a search and check it out then
17:09:22KejlsnIm using Vista.
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17:11:20gevaertsMost people just copy files using whatever file manager they happen to like
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17:13:15KejlsnBut the iPod does not have a very clear logic bout storing the music files? I dont get it, it's a lot a folders
17:13:52krazykit`many just use their favorite type of directory structure (i use artist/date-album/track# - title)
17:14:07gevaertsthe ipod OF may have weird structures, but if you're using rockbox, why should you care about that?
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17:14:51KejlsnWell...I didnt see any "music"-folder on my iPod after installation of rockbox
17:15:08Kejlsnso I thought I had to use the structure, which I dont get
17:15:17gevaertsYou can still make one
17:15:47gevaertsMany people don't listen to music, so why force them to use any specific structure?
17:16:09KejlsnU tell me. Im new to this.....
17:16:12KejlsnYou*
17:16:18Kejlsn:)
17:16:27gevaertsbasically rockbox doesn't care where you put your files
17:16:47advcomp2019you can put your files anyway you want them
17:16:52MartynYep, one of the nice things about it :)
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17:17:37KejlsnSweet. Soo, I just create "music" inside .rockbox and then I can drag and drop the music into that folder? that simple?
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17:17:50Martynafter getting a little frustrated with the microSD card yesterday, I'm working on a quick plugin to handle FAT32 formatting
17:18:04LearNot within .rockbox preferably, but pretty much anywhere else.
17:18:19KejlsnAha, Okey
17:18:26MartynKejlsn : Consider ".rockbox" to be a hidden, system folder :)
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17:18:52MartynKejlsn : It should contain the Rockbox OS, plugins, themes, etc.
17:19:04MartynAnywhere else outside of .rockbox is fair game for your files
17:19:19KejlsnYeah, I got it :)
17:19:39MartynIn the case of the Sansa, the original firmware files still reside outside of the .rockbox directory, allowing you to switch between the two system images :)
17:19:49KejlsnWhy does it auto-create "Calenders", "Contact" and "iPod_control"?
17:19:58Martynit didn't.
17:20:06MartynThose were already there, AFAIK
17:20:18gevaertsthe Apple firmware creates those
17:20:30MartynThose are the directory structures created by iTunes to handle Calendars, Contacts ...
17:21:03KejlsnOk, because I format my iPod and they still auto-creates...So I was just wondering
17:22:08MartynWith the exception of the new iPod Touch and the little Shuffle, iTunes treats an iPod like a hard disk, and simply writes the files it wants
17:22:48MartynThe ipod Touch is different, and uses a complex set of API's + hash signing, and now even a bit of DRM to prevent read/write from the device.
17:22:50KejlsnOhh, I really should get I new one :D Im still using my iPod mini 4GB
17:23:08Martyn(Apple went -backwards- in it's developement, going from something simple to something needlessly complex)
17:23:35MartynKejlsn : Um, so am I .. nothing wrong with the Mini
17:23:58gevaertsKejlsn: many people replace the disk in their mini with a big compactflash card these days
17:24:04MartynI also use a sansa e260R, running RockBox and expanded to 10GB with the use of an 8gb microSDHC card.
17:24:27KejlsnOh really?
17:24:30Martynyep
17:24:40KejlsnHmm, had no idea
17:24:43MartynGoogle for it, and you'll find all kinds of people modding Mini's
17:25:08KejlsnCool. But it would still be fresh with a color screen at least
17:25:46*Martyn mourns the loss of his iPod 4G ... I had upgraded it, but last week the battery inflated and died. Even though I got a replacement battery, it would not ressurect.
17:27:28*gevaerts thinks that we're drifting into off-topic territory. #rockbox-community is probably more suited for this
17:27:36MartynQuestion, how often do you really listen to everything you have on your current Mini? How often have you found yourself saying "Damn, 4Gb is too small?"
17:27:50Martyngevaerts: Heh, point.
17:28:14MartynWhich brings me back to the code I'm working on...
17:28:34MartynThere are some encumberances around FAT32, which we use.
17:28:35KejlsnWell, 4 GB is pretty tiny if you want to use FLAC?
17:28:44advcomp2019i am using an e280R with a 4GB microSDHC card and i am happy with it
17:29:39MartynNow, we -do- already use it, for accessing files and playback. I feel that on the whole, and based on that alone, there should be no issues if I create a FAT32 formatting utility inside of RockBox
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17:30:02MartynHowever, before I do a significant amount of coding ... I wanted to get opinions.
17:30:21BigBambiI don't think it is worth it
17:30:40BigBambiBut don't let me top you :)
17:30:44BigBambi*stop
17:31:17gevaertsPeople using old archoses may like such a plugin, especially if it also does partitioning
17:32:08BigBambiMartyn: What advantages would it bring that doing it on the PC wouldn't (I'm genuinely asking)
17:32:30MartynWell, assuming I can use a BSD licensed library with no other encumberances (and optimize it a bit) it might add as much as 16K to the .rockbox image
17:32:47*kugel thinks he fixed insert
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17:32:57gevaertsMartyn: if you're talking about a plugin it won't increase the rockbox image at all
17:33:40MartynBigBambi : In the last four weeks I've found myself needing to format a microSD card six times, in three different devices
17:34:06MartynBigBambi : and, of course, I never had the stupid microSDHC -> SD or usb adapter sitting around.
17:34:28MartynBigBambi : So it got me thinking to the more generic case, of RockBox devices with expandable media support
17:34:37BigBambiBut surely you can now do it via Rockbox USB?
17:34:52webguest43advcomp2019, that must have been one of the last devices reviewed by james kim on cnet http://reviews.cnet.com/mp3-players/sandisk-sansa-e280r-rhapsody/4505-6490_7-32102346.html?tag=mncol;lst
17:35:01MartynBigBambi : Nope. On the Sansa, for example, USB support even in the latest build is very, very poor.
17:35:20*gevaerts looks for Martyn's bug report
17:35:34BigBambigevaerts: Is that true? You can't format via Rockbox USB?
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17:35:49Martyngevaerts : I'll write one right now. Thanks for the reminder.
17:35:51gevaertssure you can. I do it all the time
17:36:00BigBambiMartyn: It can only get improved if people tell the developers about the problems
17:36:10BigBambigevaerts: I thought so
17:36:17Martyngevaerts : Mine consistently fails to copy files on PC and Mac
17:36:19advcomp2019webguest43, can you stay on topic
17:36:24BigBambiMartyn: So you can format via USB
17:36:25Martyngevaerts: as well as formatting
17:36:45linuxstbMartyn: There is some GPL'd formatting code in ipodpatcher you might want to look at. It's taken from the GPL'd fat32format.exe (a Windows app, as the name implies).
17:36:57BigBambiMartyn: It works brilliantly for me, copying etc, I haven't tried to format
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17:37:13linuxstbOne limitation is that it only deals with 512-byte logical sectors - the ipod 5.5g uses 2048 byte sectors.
17:37:13webguest43advcomp2019, sorry thought you were talking about your e280R
17:37:31BigBambiMartyn: And what do you mean by latest build?
17:37:40*linuxstb or MrSomeone should really go back and finish implementing fat32 conversion in ipodpatcher...
17:38:27MartynBigBambi : The sansa is running r20216090306
17:38:34kugelOk guys, PLAYLIST_INSERT has a bug currently. If you start a new playlist with insert, insert will add the files in reverse order
17:38:37advcomp2019webguest43, yea but we talking about the player and their sizes
17:38:53kugelthis is the reason why "Insert" is really "Insert last", when no audio is playling
17:39:01BigBambiMartyn: Have you run a disk check?
17:39:16kugelI could fix the bug and get rid of insert_last
17:39:27MartynBigBambi : Yes.
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17:39:45kugelthough, this would mean that if you use insert to create a playlist, the next insert will append at the end of the playlist
17:39:49BigBambiWell, that is odd then, as for many people it is anything but "very very poor"
17:39:50pixelmaLear: any plans about the config-ondiosp.h (I admit I didn't check whether the SP sim is broken as well)?
17:39:51MartynBigBambi : I also reformatted the SDHC card on a both a linux and windblows box.
17:40:13BigBambiWhich incidently, diminishes the huge amount of work people have put into it
17:40:19kugelstarting playback with select will make insert work like normal
17:40:29kugelor starting with insert last, I believe
17:40:40Learpixelma: Not really, no. I only fixed the red case I saw...
17:40:45kugelany opinions?
17:40:51gevaertsMartyn: is this using a single sd card, or different ones? Same brand/model? What does it do for internal?
17:41:09advcomp2019Martyn, let me update my sansa out to test this
17:41:36Martyngevaverts : When did USB support fixed in the sansa originally? Prior to installing r202216 it used to bounce back to the original firmware when connecting for USB disk mode
17:42:03Learpixelma: But I'll try building a sim here.
17:42:07BigBambiMartyn: I don't understand your first sentence
17:42:11Martyngevaerts: Well, there's only one SDHC card slot, so yes .. just a single card. 8Gb, SanDisk card.
17:42:37BigBambiMartyn: Multiple different cards - having one slot doesn't mean you can only own one card
17:43:01gevaertsMartyn: I mean, you said "three different devices". Of course there's only one at a time...
17:43:04webguest43have there been any reviews of the quality of the audio hardware in mp3 players?
17:43:12webguest43or are they all about the same?
17:43:16Martyngevaerts: I have two cards, an 8Gb and 4Gb, both SanDisk micro SDHC.
17:43:28BigBambiwebguest43: Not really a subject for here
17:43:50Martyngevaerts: The last card is a standard micro SD card, 2Gb .. also SanDisk
17:44:00webguest43BigBambi, well im trying to decide on a replacement for my rockbox 5g ipod
17:44:18Martynwebguest43 : Still a topic for the community channel...
17:44:34BigBambiwebguest43: That still isn't Rockbox related
17:44:42webguest43what channel is that?
17:45:04BigBambiwebguest43: please read the topic (#rockbox-community)
17:45:52MartynI'm going to reproduce the error now where copy locks up and pastebin the output from dmesg on OSX so you can see some of the issues.
17:45:57MartynThis will take a moment.
17:48:46advcomp2019Martyn, so it is mainly the microsdhc cards then?
17:48:46MartynActually, the messages being output by the OS X kernel are pretty compact .. I'll paste two lines
17:49:23Martynadvcomp2019 : I'd generalize it in this case, since it's happening on both the micro SDHC and the micro SD cards
17:49:27Martyn 0 [Level 3] [ReadUID 0] [Facility com.apple.system.fs] [ErrType IO] [ErrNo 13] [IOType Read] [PBlkNum 31304] [LBlkNum 0] [FSLogMsgID 971463160] [FSLogMsgOrder First]
17:49:33Martyn 0 [Level 3] [ReadUID 0] [Facility com.apple.system.fs] [DevNode /dev/disk2s1] [MountPt /Volumes/8GB_SDHC] [Path /Volumes/8GB_SDHC/._09 Lucy.mp3] [FSLogMsgID 971463160] [FSLogMsgOrder Last]
17:49:34Martyndisk2s1: device/channel is not attached.
17:49:53BigBambiMartyn: Please use a pastebin next time
17:49:57Martynthe device /dev/disk2s1 dissapears
17:50:12MartynBigBambi : Two liner, figured a pastebin wouldn't be needed. apologies.
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17:50:56MartynNow, I will attempt the same operation on the 2GB microSD card
17:51:16gevaertsPlease also try the internal flash
17:53:21MartynI will. I shall return in a moment, the device has left my mac in a pretty trashed state
17:53:58Martyn"the operation cannot be completed because you have insufficient privileges" ... oof
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17:55:15*kugel commits the fix
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17:58:20advcomp2019i just copied about 870MB of files to my 4gb microsdhc card in my sansa and no issues here
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17:59:54Martynadvcomp2019 : Debugging the working case is never useful.
18:00
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18:00:10Martynadvcomp2019 : I have a non working scenario, and that's why we're looking into it :)
18:00:36gevaertsMartyn: what happens if you copy the same files from internal flash to the sd card?
18:00:45BigBambiMartyn: It however suggests that it isn't that "very very poor" if it works for many of us
18:01:09MartynBigBambi : Oh get off it. -laugh- It's been poor for me
18:02:00MartynBigBambi : prior to installing this release, the sansa always switched to the original firmware when connecting USB, and I couldn't access an SDHC card at all
18:02:29BigBambiMartyn: Sorry, it was a very bad choice of words. People spend a huge amount of time working on this in their spare time, and whilst we want to hear about bugs, you could be a little more gracious
18:02:36kugeluh, the commit message is longer than the code changes :S
18:02:55Martynpastebinning
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18:04:31Lloreankugel: In my mind, if you start a playlist with Insert, the next "Insert" *should* be at the end.
18:04:34LloreanI'm surprised it's not.
18:04:52LloreanThere's really no reason it should work identical to "select" and having it work differently means more flexibility in general.
18:04:54kugelLlorean: yea, I thought so too. It wasn't the case, it is now
18:05:18kugeluh, the commit didn't work
18:05:38kugelLlorean: I think this was the "broken insert" JdGordon mentioned recently
18:06:03pixelmakugel: still better than a too short commit message
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18:06:33Lloreankugel: I'm pretty sure it is.
18:07:06kugelthe worst thing imo is, that you clicked insert, but what you got was insert last...
18:07:37JdGordonamiconn: pong
18:08:04Lloreankugel: I'm confused about how "insert last" caused things to work differently?
18:08:24pixelmaLear: you're welcome... and thanks :)
18:08:38kugelinsert last doesn't update the insert position, i.e. new songs are inserted after the current one if you start playback using "Insert"
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18:09:10MartynApologies
18:09:12MartynThe sansa locked up, and OS X reported "device unexpectedly removed, you could lose data" .. then froze hard with a panic
18:09:23Lloreangevaerts: I think A) for this release, B) for next release (re: your email) with an addendum to B that there be a menu item somewhere for "Enter USB mode" to re-enable without replugging the cable.
18:09:45Lloreankugel: Insert Last should update it. I think that's a bug too, then.
18:10:25Lloreankugel: You *should* be able to "Insert Last, Insert, Insert, Insert" to get a chain of files at the end of the playlist.
18:10:47Martynhttp://pastebin.com/m46ea9f1d
18:11:32kugelLlorean: probably, I'm not sure though if this also means that starting playback by pressing select will get the insert position at the end too, then
18:11:35amiconnJdGordon: See r20234
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18:12:14Lloreankugel: Well, I don't see that as a significant problem if it does. There's always "Insert Next, Insert, Insert, Insert"
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18:12:29kugelhm, right
18:12:36Lloreankugel: In my mind, you should always do a "Next" or "Last" first to explicitly place the location, then the non-explicit one repeatedly.
18:12:47gevaertsLlorean: the problem with (a) is that it really can make any "special" use (i.e. not mount/copy files/unmount) awkward. Is not going to standard mode automatically really that bad?
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18:13:04kugelLlorean: sounds logical to me too
18:13:07Lloreangevaerts: Are "special" uses of the disk really applicable to rockbox?
18:13:27kugelgevaerts: I vote for keeping things as they are
18:13:32Lloreangevaerts: For "users", the mount/copy/unmount is pretty much the only use they'll ever experience except during an install.
18:13:58MartynTrying to copy files to the internal also fails: http://pastebin.com/m51095bb4
18:14:03kugelI sometimes to the mount-unmount-remount dance too
18:14:10kugeldo even
18:14:18gevaertsLlorean: I don't know how windows handles things, but on linux it would mean you have to unplug the device several times to fsck it
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18:15:47*gevaerts decides to make the necessary changes and just test the thing
18:16:04Lloreangevaerts: Would some sort of timeout (if it's not accessed again in 1 second, or whatever) make sense, or is this something that's really a "we have to either screw over fsck, or not have this feature in 3.2" situation?
18:16:26LloreanThough, I'm not sure we're gonna have the GigabeatS in 3.2 anyway, so it's kinda a non-issue, right?
18:17:09advcomp2019gevaerts, if there was errors, windows would post the errors in the event viewer and the sounds from the device disconnecting and connecting.. i have not heard the sounds and i see no errors
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18:17:29advcomp2019unless you was talking about another bug
18:17:46Martyngevaerts : Would any further pastebin be useful at this point?
18:17:47gevaertsLlorean: the GigabeatS requires other things anyway (the partition table games) to make it even possible to handle unmount from the device.
18:18:20gevaertsMartyn: if it looks the same, not really. I'm still more interested in what happens with internal flash and what happens if you copy within rockbox
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18:19:09Martyngevaverts : Once I reboot the sansa, I will try copying a file from within rockbox
18:19:26MartynJust copy something internal->internal, or internal->microsd?
18:19:46Martyn(the sansa locked up hard again, giving it the two-fingered reboot)
18:20:21Lloreangevaerts: Maybe just allow a press of the "Select" button on the USB screen to disconnect independently of what's going on. Basically, it's the same as unplugging the cable anyway, which a user can also do to unsafely remove, and it allows a solution for all targets without dealing with the cable
18:20:37gevaertsMartyn: all directions would be useful I think. Maybe start with internal->microsd
18:20:38LloreanSo if "Safely Remove" leaves you with a USB logo, you can just tap select
18:21:10Martyngevaerts : Performing an internal copy from internal to microsd seems to have worked
18:21:22Martyngevaverts : I'll copy a whole directory to be sure
18:21:45gevaertsLlorean: I'd still only allow it when the device isn't locked by the OS. Tapping select is a lot easier to do by accident than unplugging a cable
18:22:45Martyngevaerts: Copy of a 90Mb directory of files wokred, as did a move
18:23:00Lloreangevaerts: Long-press Select?
18:23:05Martyngevaerts : So the internal file copy and move function works
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18:25:10gevaertsLlorean: let me write some code for this, so we can actually try things out instead of speculating :)
18:25:19Martyn( it did take a surprisingly long time to do the move operation )
18:25:31gevaertsMartyn: ok. Does USB work to the internal flash?
18:25:34Martynno
18:26:17Lloreangevaerts: Sounds good. Though if we're at the point where there's a disconnect button, and detection of "medium safe to remove" or whatever, you might as well have the (B) case at that point.
18:26:22gevaertsMartyn: can you post a bug report with all details you can think of?
18:26:43gevaertsLlorean: true, but that requires UI work :)
18:26:45MartynAttempting to move or copy files to the internal or microSD card (at least in windows and OS X) seems to cause the device to be connected and disconnected from the USB bus. I wish I knew how to capture the equivalent of the dmesg log in Windows
18:26:52Martyngevaerts : Will do.
18:27:38Lloreangevaerts: You could skip the UI work and just have the button functionality in. Detect "medium safe" and allow "select" to disconnect, then let someone add in the UI bits later if someone felt like it, otherwise we just leave it as "nothing changed" for now.
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18:30:04rasheramiconn: Does this help the video's struggling lists?
18:30:24kugelLlorean: insert_next doesn't update it too
18:31:45Lloreankugel: What?
18:31:56kugelthe insert position
18:32:00Lloreankugel: So if you "Insert Next" then "Insert" it actually comes *before* the previously inserted song?
18:33:10kugelI just tested insert last to update the insert position. so I did insert last, then insert next, then insert. the last song was appended to the end
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18:33:44LloreanSo, only "Insert" was updating the insert position previously?
18:34:24kugelamiconn: All this clipping could be done in the lcd-<depth>.c files, so that lcd_update and lcd_update_rect don't need to do the clipping again, right?
18:34:37kugelLlorean: apparently
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18:35:21Lloreankugel: I wonder if they changed when I wasn't looking, or if I just didn't understand at all how they were supposed to work. But that doesn't make much sense, it basically makes *all* of them less useful because they don't interact.
18:36:05kugelI think they all should update (except insert shuffled, maybe?), that would give well defined behavior and useful interaction
18:37:28LloreanAgreed.
18:37:40LloreanInsert shuffled shouldn't, because having a random position doesn't really do any good.
18:38:05gevaertsHow do you check if someone has pressed a button?
18:38:42LloreanLook at it, and if it's down...
18:39:05gevaertsLlorean: (a) isn't workable. Linux locks the device to read the partition table, then unlocks it, then something mounts the device. With (a) it leaves USB mode halfway that sequence
18:39:12Lloreangevaerts: In truth, no clue with the whole context / actions system
18:40:00***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:42:18amiconnkugel: huh?
18:42:22amiconnrasher: yes
18:43:01kugelamiconn: the viewport functions should handle all clipping, imo, and not the lcd_update / lcd_update_rect ones
18:43:24amiconnlcd_update_rect clipping is on purpose, to save execution time
18:43:53amiconnviewport clipping is for drawing into the framebuffer. They are independent
18:44:18*amiconn is somewhat puzzled about the deltas
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18:45:42gevaertsIs there an event sent out when someone presses a button, or do I just have to call button_get() every now and then
18:47:15rasheramiconn: sounds good - not an uncommon complaint
18:47:24amiconnyeah
18:47:56amiconnIt should help even more for larger fonts. My figures are for sysfont, where reloading src bytes within a column doesn't happen
18:49:03rasherGreat news
18:49:36kugelamiconn: I mean, for example, lcd_update_viewport() would handle the clipping, then pass the clipped x/y/width/height to lcd_update_rect. This would get rid of dozens of different clippings and duplicated code, in favor for 1
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18:52:32JdGordonrasher: you were asking something about where the wps syntax is all specified yesterday?
18:53:00rasherJdGordon: Llorean actually. Saw your response, but I don't think it's important.
18:53:10JdGordonok
18:53:16rasherBut thanks anyway
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19:00
19:00:01*amiconn now understands the somewhat strange deltas for PP and coldire
19:00:19amiconnThis is IRAM code, so the binary grows, but the (SD)RAM usage doesn't
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19:03:26gevaertsLlorean: can you live with using the button that's used to tell the player not to enter MSC mode for getting out of MSC mode? It seems related, and it saves me from defining another one
19:03:59 Quit ibseo ("quit")
19:04:08Lloreangevaerts: Makes the most sense to me.
19:04:27Llorean"Press (button) to prevent MSC mode, or to disconnect from MSC mode if your computer has released the device"
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19:10:14*rasher attempts to guilt gevaerts into updating the manual at the same time
19:10:38JdGordongevaerts: why do you need to choose wierd buttons? why not just change the display to "computer has released the device, unplug usb or press OK to eject"
19:10:47JdGordonand use ACTION_STD_OK
19:11:12gevaertsJdGordon: I'll post a patch soon, so UI people like you can improve it :)
19:20:27gevaertsLlorean: FS #9993
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19:44:35*gevaerts decides that this patch is minimal enough to commit without waiting for further input
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19:55:57*Bagder adds a brand new quad core server to the pool
19:56:47rasherWoo
19:57:23Bagderred builds!
19:58:22rasherBoo
19:59:03*gevaerts tries to blame someone else
20:00
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20:10:28rasherBagder: err, that doesn't look good
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20:12:42Bagderhah, indeed not
20:13:16Bagdersomething is very odd there
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20:14:46Bagderand I know what
20:14:57Bagderecho -e on ubuntu
20:15:06rasherWhere's the echo -e?
20:15:06NHealgrisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
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20:15:15Bagderin his acbuild.pl version
20:15:35rasherThought we fixed that ages ago
20:15:52Bagderwe did, but he obviously has a copy from before that
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20:16:50rasherSo did he switch to ubuntu?
20:16:50kugelUnhelpful: haha, nice job
20:17:13*kugel prays for ./configure −−target= −−type=, etc
20:17:25rasherkugel: doesn't that already exist?
20:17:38kugelyea, but the build server don't use it, and rely on echo magic
20:17:54rasherIt uses printf...
20:18:13BigBambidolphins rely on echo magic too
20:18:15BigBambiand bats
20:18:20BigBambier, oops
20:19:32BagderI fixed it now and I'll leave it enabled but if things are still bad later tonight I'll fix it further, I'll be gone a few hours now
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20:34:29Unhelpfulhuh, what'd i do now?
20:40:02***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:40:08kugelUnhelpful: I just tried pictureflow with playback and the new buffer system
20:40:12kugelgreat thing
20:40:37Unhelpfulahhh... i was gonna say, the stuff i put up last night is a mess, and needs work :)
20:41:22BigBambiUnhelpful: So is it just playback integration to go for pictureflow? :)
20:41:25kugelI guess scrolling is limited now to not underrun the cache?
20:41:51Unhelpfulkugel: i didn't change anything about scrolling.
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20:42:23kugelwell, scrolling is definitely slower (not in fps sense), but I never get a "?" slide anymore
20:42:29gevaertsYay! Green line again
20:42:53fmlpixelma: ping
20:43:21Unhelpfulthe cache was being underrun because the cache load thread was lower priority than the gui thread, and pretty much never run while scrolling. of course, if another thread is running more than it used to, the fps pretty much has to go down :)
20:44:02kugelthe fps didn't go down
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20:46:12kugelI guess pf needs a playback menu now
20:47:48gevaertsSurely in an ideal world pf *is* the playback menu?
20:48:08kugel:)
20:51:51*rasher thinks the slowdown when scrolling is a bit... slow
20:51:54rasherIn pf
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21:00
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21:02:43mrkikofor me it would be unuseful, but... will be a pdf reader implemented in rockbox? I ask it 'cause looking at libpoppler, much work is allready done...
21:02:59mrkikoit seems that the library can be built in a way so that it's glibc-independant
21:03:45rasherI'd be surprised if libpoppler doesn't use floats
21:04:59gevaertsIt's also c++
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21:15:31Unhelpfulrasher: do you mean the slowdown when you stop scrolling? it's designed to slow down as the scroll animation completes, but you're not the only person to think it's a little *too* slow
21:16:04rasherUnhelpful: Yes.. I just think the decelleration should be a bit quicker
21:16:47Unhelpfulthe other person was testing it on the newly-supported archos targets, at a blazing 5fps, though
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21:29:54MassaHi eveybody!
21:30:11Massas/evey/every/g
21:31:36MassaAnybody here?
21:32:02advcomp2019Massa, yes do you have a question
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21:33:07MassaWell, is somebody here with an iRiver H3x0 device?
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21:34:01advcomp2019just ask the question someone will help
21:35:03MassaI wanted to update the bootloader of my H3x0 device - for this I need to boot the original firmware.
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21:35:58MassaAs far as I remember (it's been eon since I tried to boot the original firmware) I have to press the "RECORD"-button and then switch the device on (play button) to boot the original firmware.
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21:36:40MassaBut when I do this now, rockbox says "Booting the original firmware" and then switches the device off...
21:36:54linuxstbAre you keeping "on" pressed?
21:37:11linuxstbIIRC, the OF checks that button, and if it's not pressed, will power-down
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21:38:13Massalinuxstb: no, I released it. That solved the problem - easy at always...
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21:39:23Massalinuxstb: thanks a lot :) - I suggest, that this find it's way to the manual ;)
21:39:54linuxstbWe welcome patches to the manual ;)
21:40:01saratogaI propose that the front page should be updates as discussed here: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=20852.0
21:40:13saratoga"should be updated"
21:42:54linuxstbMaybe Bagder's change should simply be reverted - for the c200 and e200 (the only Sansas we support), the "v2" title is correct.
21:43:46linuxstb( http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi?view=rev&revision=20127 )
21:43:49saratogadoes anyone have any thoughts about the vorbis iram malloc patch?
21:43:55dionoeaHowdy. Does boris gjenero sometimes come on IRC?
21:44:18saratogai like the idea of dynamically allocating IRAM for buffers only if they're needed, but I worry that we'll run into a situation where some odd vorbis file tries to allocate a lot of IRAM
21:44:25linuxstbdionoea: I don't think so, although he's active everywhere else (tracker, mailing list and forums)
21:44:50dionoeaok. I'll stick to the tracker then :)
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22:00
22:00:07dionoeais there a make target to make only the firmware and not the plugins?
22:00:51gevaertsmake bin
22:00:55dionoeathanks
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22:01:34linuxstbThere's also "make help"
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22:01:49fangzeroHello
22:02:46CtcpPing from gevaerts!n=fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts
22:03:11fangzeroI am in need of some help setting up Rockbox on a Sansa e280R
22:03:33CtcpTime from gevaerts!n=fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts
22:03:45fangzeroI can't seem to get into Manufacture mode like the intructions say on the rockbox website
22:05:02gevaertsThat shouldn't be too hard. What goes wrong?
22:05:31fangzeroIt never goes into Manufacture mode
22:05:44fangzeroI had hold on and pressed and held select like it said
22:06:05fangzerojust goes to the main menu of the original firmware
22:06:19gevaertsYou're sure it's a v1?
22:06:46fangzeroI'll check it again
22:07:49fangzeroVersion 3.01.16A
22:08:01advcomp2019that a v2
22:08:17fangzeroIt said they had special instructions for the R version
22:08:20gevaertsok. That's not a v1. Rockbox doesn't work on those yet
22:08:35gevaertsYes, the v1 R. Not the v2 R
22:08:44fangzeroah
22:08:49fangzeroThat would explain alot
22:09:26fangzeroI heard you could downgrade it enough to get rockbox, but is it worth the time?
22:09:35 Quit HBK (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:09:39gevaertsyou can't. The hardware is different
22:09:53gevaertsPeople are working on supporting the v2, but that's not done yet
22:09:58fangzeroAh
22:10:14fangzeroFather was wanting to get it on his Sansa e280R
22:10:28fangzeroI bought my E260 from another place then him
22:10:54fangzeroSo I was trying to help him get rockbox on his
22:11:16fangzeroOh that reminds me, I haven't been able to get Picture flow working on my e260
22:11:32fangzerogives me a cache error then quits
22:11:44*gevaerts leaves that one to PF specialists :)
22:12:04fangzerohehe ok that works
22:12:27fangzeroBeen ripping all my cd's to ogg since I got rockbox...
22:12:49fangzeroIt is quite a nice thing
22:13:07fangzeroSo is there any idea when V2 support will come?
22:14:25linuxstbWhen the people who are working on it in their spare solve all the problems...
22:15:09fangzeroHeh. I would Contribute to some programs for rockbox, but I only know Java.
22:15:53linuxstbI'm just saying that it's a matter of people without much time solving problems - so it's impossible to know how long things will take.
22:16:11fangzeroAh It's Cool.
22:17:12fangzeroThanks for the info.
22:17:34saratogatheres no V2 R either, so its just a plain V2
22:19:22CtcpPing from gevaerts!n=fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts
22:20:28fangzeroah ok
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22:24:30Martynr20250 for sansa didn't build?
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22:25:42saratogaits building now
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22:28:42Martynthanks
22:36:49pixelmaUnhelpful: I agree about the slowdown in pf being a bit too slow - and yes most annoying on my Ondio where I get up to 7 fps (before today's greylib enhancements) ;)
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22:38:17*Martyn continues writing a fat32 formatting and fsck plugin while waiting for the build to finish
22:40:05***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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22:44:37Unhelpfulmy, amiconn sure has been busy since pf on archos landed. i'll have a new keymap patch up shortly... i think many of the icky bits have improved, though likely not all.
22:45:12BdN3504which button is ActionStdUsbCharge on the gigabeat F?
22:45:56gevaertsthe manual should know
22:45:57pixelmaUnhelpful: the Ondio has a slightly faster CPU (in case you thought the higher fps were due to improvements only)
22:46:22BdN3504http://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-gigabeatf/rockbox-buildch3.html#x5-220003 not yet
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22:46:51BdN3504but i guess it's select... lemme check
22:47:02Unhelpfulbuilding on CONTEXT_TREE was entirely the wrong place to go, instead it's now a context that chains to ACTION_STD and adds the menu/quit/cancel buttons, used by tracklist, and another that adds left/right scroll, and could potentially define inputs for other actions if something needs remapping due to being covered by left/right scroll
22:47:19gevaertsBdN3504: I'm confused. That page seems entirely correct...
22:48:07amiconnUnhelpful: The chunky drawing optimisation is something I wanted to do for ages. PF finally pushed me to do it
22:48:28amiconnThe coding didn't even take very long, as I had the ideas already worked out in my head
22:48:45Unhelpfulalways good to have written the code before you write it :)
22:49:36amiconnI have another idea which I had to back out for now, as it would probably not be wise to push it just before the freeze: the ability for a viewport to override the backdrop with a plain background colour
22:50:41amiconnThat is without removing the backdrop entirely. It will be another drawmode modifer bit. I'm not sure which way round it should operate, but I now tend to think that bit set == override backdrop is better
22:50:43pixelmaUnhelpful: forcing horizontal scrolling in the tracklist? That's something that could get problematic on the Ondio once you could select tracks to play from it (and in this case I rather do without the scrolling than anything else)
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22:51:33Unhelpfulpixelma: no, the tracklist context only adds action buttons - only a dedicated quit button on most targets. then a layer over that adds left/right scrolling
22:52:13*pixelma doesn't follow
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22:57:44BdN3504i looked here http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/trunk/manual/rockbox_interface/main.tex?r1=20247;r2=20248;pathrev=20248 and concluded that was the right section
22:58:35gevaertsright section for what?
23:00
23:00:28Unhelpfulpixelma: it's not done yet, but there are two contexts defined in pictureflow in my working branch for this. pf_context_buttons adds a dedicated quit button, and possibly others if PF will need them anywhere, and chains to CONTEXT_STD. pf_context_album_scroll adds the left/right scroll buttons, and chains to pf_context_buttons.
23:00:56amiconnYet another thing is the bitmap drawing unification stuff
23:01:37Unhelpfulit looks like at least Ondio will need new buttons for ok/cancel, and maybe menu, in pf_context_album_scroll... up for select, down for cancel, and that little thingy on the bottom left for menu?
23:02:14linuxstbgevaerts: Reading your manual addition, it comes across as a bit over-technical to me - e.g. "operating system of your computer", could simply be "your computer". Also "host operating" seems incomplete.
23:03:10gevaertslinuxstb: good point
23:03:38*gevaerts fixes
23:07:24linuxstbgevaerts: Why does Charging have a capital C? ;)
23:07:51gevaertslinuxstb: this is about mister Charging, not the boring battery stuff
23:08:11*gevaerts fixes more
23:08:43amiconnUnhelpful: 'Cancel' should be on Power by convention, and selecting is usually done with Mode if Right is taken
23:08:45pixelmaUnhelpful: select: short menu, menu: long menu is what I'd expect
23:09:01pixelmamenu/mode
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23:09:48pixelmamenu/mode/that little thingy on the bottom left ;)
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23:16:07rasherIn lieu of having "completed" the alternate themes site I've been working on, I've uploaded what I have right now to a public git repository: http://repo.or.cz/w/rockboxthemes.git
23:17:11*Bagder added the second (and faster) fnarfbargle server now
23:18:34 Quit bimbel ("Woah!")
23:19:40linuxstbBagder: Any objection to reverting http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi?view=rev&revision=20127 ? As far as the Sansas listed there, "v2" is correct, and it's been pointed out that no-one apart from us calls them "AMS Sansas".
23:19:51MartynI'm installing the current sansa build now
23:20:22rasherBagder: Any idea how long the build system usually waits for the last build, with all other servers sleeping?
23:20:53Bagderrasher: no, i think it varies a lot
23:21:13Bagderlinuxstb: won't that just complicate matters as then we'll mix the terms a lot?
23:21:16bluebrotherlinuxstb, Bagder: why not simply add a "what does this mean" link instead?
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23:21:35bluebrotherwhich in turn lists the models in detail
23:21:50linuxstbBagder: I don't think so, as we're just referring to the v2 e200 and c200. The "AMS Sansa" port includes the Clip, Fuze and m200v4.
23:22:04Bagderah right
23:22:15 Quit Zoxc ()
23:22:23BigBambiThe trouble is nobody not involved knows what AMS means
23:22:26*amiconn throws some speculative concurrent builds in Bagder's direction ;)
23:22:35linuxstbBut yes, the "v2 models" text could be a link to the SansaAMSPort page, or whatever it's called.
23:22:37rasherBagder: Are there any (significant) pauses in the build times listed on the build summary?
23:22:44Bagderamiconn: thanks! ;-)
23:23:11rasherOr do the builds happen basically back-to-back?
23:23:18Bagderrasher: what's not visible there is the transfer times to get zips to the master, and general network latency
23:23:29amiconnOh, and backround uploads, of course
23:23:31 Quit gromit` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:23:34linuxstbMaybe we need something like a "SamsungIpods" page to link all the non-supported ipods to...
23:23:35amiconn*background
23:23:39Unhelpfulamiconn: "power" is mapped to quit on many targets right now... by cancel i mean the key to return to albums from a tracklist
23:23:48gevaertsI expect background uploads to make the biggest difference
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23:24:03amiconnUnhelpful: I know. Imo one press of Power should return, and another quit
23:24:05Bagderyeah, but bg uploads make error handling a lot harder
23:24:35rasherBagder: Ah, I was hoping that'd be included :\
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23:24:58Unhelpfulwell, cancel at the album list *does* quit. i'm just inclined to think that cancel would be best placed near the scroll buttons, and power as a dedicated quit button
23:25:28amiconnIt does right now, but who says it needs to stay that way?
23:26:00amiconnBut then, nothings stops the tracklist from having a different mapping, and then Left should return to the album selector
23:26:50Unhelpfulit likely already does, if it's a standard cancel button
23:27:41Unhelpfulit does... i'll need to do something about masking long-press-right in the album view, since that's triggering select
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23:28:48*amiconn still thinks that unchained contexts are better
23:28:50MartynOh well... current build was no better.
23:28:52pixelmasee where chaining core contexts can lead you to ;)
23:28:52MartynCopying files on OSX to the sansa via USB still causes it to lock up
23:31:56gevaertsMartyn: how are you installing? Overwriting .rockbox, or a totally removing it? Also, is this your own build or the official one?
23:32:08Unhelpfuli'm still inclined to think that chaining is not evil in and of itself... i'm pretty well convinced that chaining contexts that are very generally defined, and without any per-target thought as to how they will chain, is bad, though. this already works better than PLA. ;)
23:33:01amiconnChaining isn't evil as such, but you need to be very very careful
23:33:56amiconnEspecially if you don't have devices for testing every possible keymap. The sim doesn't tell you the whole truth (and it can't).
23:34:05Unhelpfulexpecting completely arbitrary contexts to chain neatly is trouble. i'm tweaking these as needed to get them to work correctly
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23:35:03Unhelpfulyes, it lacks power button for one of my targets, or at least i don't know what that is, it can't always simulate button hardware quirks properly... but i don't see how one can give unchained contexts more than a best-effort attempt, either, for targets one doesn't have
23:36:30cjambeHello, what is the most modern buyable player with full Rockbox support?
23:37:17Unhelpfuldefine "modern", "buyable" and "full"... seriously, though, the answers to those questions depend on where you're buying, and what you want.
23:39:08cjambeUnhelpful: "buyable" means I want to buy a new player in a retail store. "modern" means a player that was produced within last 2 years. "full" means that every feature of out-of-the-box firmware is present in Rockbox firmware.
23:39:32pixelmaUnhelpful: sure about the best-effort-attempt, but at least it's easier for people with the device to "fix" the keymap without worrying about breaking something else
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23:50:05n1scjambe: the intersection of your criteria is empty...
23:50:35cjamben1s: thanks :)
23:51:39n1sthe BuyersGuide wiki page should give some good hints at what you have to choose from though
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