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#rockbox log for 2009-03-13

00:00:00rasherkugel: What do you mean?
00:00:29kugelrasher: what Llorean said a few minutes ago
00:00:30rasherThere's one perfectly valid ID3v1 tag. And one perfectly valid ID3v2 tag. Rockbox decides that it's had enough after reading the v2 tag.
00:01:45kugelI don't think we need id3v1 at all, but supporting a mix of v1 and v2 seems even worse to me
00:01:58 Quit tessarakt ("Client exiting")
00:02:11 Part Llorean
00:03:04 Join barrywardell [0] (n=barrywar@79.97.77.138)
00:03:27rasherTelling a user "this file has no tags" while it is in fact fully tagged is just stupid.
00:03:35rasherI don't see how you can argue otherwise.
00:04:36rasherUnless we've adopted a policy of lying to the user when we think they're doing something slightly out of the ordinary and no one told me
00:06:57 Join homielowe [0] (n=homielow@unaffiliated/homielowe)
00:07:06 Quit kugel (Nick collision from services.)
00:07:11 Join kugel [0] (n=kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel)
00:08:38kugelrasher: lying? Do we explicitly tell we support mixed tags? I don't think we're lying of the user expects this to be supported because desktop apps do
00:09:14kugelIt's just a matter of documenting it. Supporting the mixture is bad practice, IMO
00:09:47rasherThat's a cop-out. "We didn't say we explicitly supported ______ so expecting it is your own fault, no matter how weird it is"
00:10:16 Quit bertrik ("Leaving")
00:10:22rasherBad practice why?
00:10:55rasherIt makes perfect sense "the first tag I tried was obviously incomplete, let's try the next *that I would have read anyway if the first one wasn't there*"
00:11:46 Quit fyrestorm ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.7/2009021910]")
00:11:58*gevaerts is on rasher's side on this one
00:13:27rasherBy the way, what is up with flyspray putting linebreaks in mail subjects?
00:13:35rasherPretty poor form
00:15:45 Join linuxstb [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
00:17:47*bluebrother is with rasher on the id3 tag issue and leaves for sleep
00:17:57 Quit bluebrother ("bye")
00:19:14 Quit MTee ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.7/2009021910]")
00:19:58 Quit flydutch ("/* empty */")
00:20:38 Join moos [0] (i=Mustapha@rockbox/staff/moos)
00:22:00rasherHow about an id3v2 tag with no frames (again, perfectly valid), should Rockbox also throw its hands in the air and say "I'm done!" after "reading" that?
00:22:47 Quit barrywardell ()
00:23:25kugelrasher: it's bad practice because mixing v1 and v2 is bad practice. supporting bad practice is bad practice too
00:24:04rasher"It's bad because it's bad and it's bad because I say so."
00:24:09JdGordon|we used to have an option of which to read v1 or v2 first, that was removed I tihnk because it wass decided v2 obviously deprecated v1... so if a file has any v2 tags at all v1 should be ignored
00:24:27gevaertskugel: that logic leads to implementing a single lossless codec
00:25:08rasherJdGordon|: That doesn't necessarily follow at all
00:25:12kugelit's all up to personal opinions, of course
00:25:44rasherIt also leads to removing all handling of unconventional files.
00:25:52 Join pixelma_ [50] (n=pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma)
00:25:52 Quit pixelma (Nick collision from services.)
00:25:54 Quit amiconn (Nick collision from services.)
00:25:55 Join amiconn_ [50] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
00:26:05 Nick pixelma_ is now known as pixelma (n=pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma)
00:26:05kugelgevaerts: Uhm, I don't think so
00:26:13 Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
00:26:38kugelv1 should be ignored entirely, imo. Let it die, we have v2 now, which is obviously better
00:26:53gevaertskugel: sure. You can transcode from one lossless codec to another without bad effects, so more than one lossless codec is useless. Lossy codecs lose qualiy, so they're useless too
00:26:55rasherkugel: APE should be ignored entirely, imo. Let it die, we have FLAC, which is obviously better.
00:27:06JdGordon|gevaerts: there is a difference between supporting choice and taking deprecated tags when the replacement is there
00:27:19rasherJdGordon|: The replacement *IS NOT THERE*
00:27:22kugelrasher: Dude, that's entirely different
00:27:22mcuelenaerecan somebody explain me how timers work in Rockbox?
00:27:29rasherkugel: It's exactly the same.
00:27:31 Join mark___ [0] (n=chatzill@adsl-235-224-88.mco.bellsouth.net)
00:27:36kugelFLAC isn't APEv2
00:27:45JdGordon|rasher: if the v2 header is there then they are there... regardless of its contents
00:28:00JdGordon|you sholdnt have broken tags which is what this is...
00:28:02rasherJdGordon|: So even if the tag doesn't have any information, that'
00:28:04kugelid3v2 succeeds id3v1. FLAC "competes" with APE. That's so not the same
00:28:04rasherJdGordon|: So even if the tag doesn't have any information, that's more than enough
00:28:08rasherJdGordon|: THEY ARE NOT BROKEN
00:28:37 Join arohtar [0] (n=faemir@88-106-169-118.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)
00:28:42kugelDo you blame microsoft for not supporting win3.1 anymore too?
00:28:48 Nick mark___ is now known as caspy7 (n=chatzill@adsl-235-224-88.mco.bellsouth.net)
00:29:00*n1s wonders why all the yelling is necessary
00:29:01rasherkugel: You're making a fool of yourself.
00:29:08*gevaerts decides to only support linux with the USB stack. The others are obsolete anyway
00:29:17JdGordon|rasher: is there a 1:1 mapping of v2 to v2 tags?
00:29:20kugelrasher: You are when you comparing with ape vs flac
00:29:32pixelmarasher: to take your argument further (search in the v1 tag if something is missing in the v2) would mean - always read both tags - or your method will work for *some* tags that we chosen to be the most important ones. Or people will ask "why isn't it reading e.g.the genre tag that's in my v1 tags but not in the v2 while it works with album?"
00:29:41rasherkugel: I never said they were the exact same, I'm saying the logic leads to that thinking.
00:29:53rasherpixelma: I never said *always* read both tags.
00:29:55kugelrasher: "rasher>kugel: It's exactly the same."
00:30:06rasherkugel: The same situation. And it is.
00:30:32rasherJdGordon|: I've no idea what you're saying.
00:30:42kugelthen it's the same for win XP+ and win 3.1
00:30:58kugelI'm not making a fool of myself more than you.
00:31:07rasherkugel: Not at all. It's in no way relevant to Rockbox.
00:31:12kugelBut I'm done with this discussion now, hiding in my fool corner
00:31:20rasherThank you.
00:31:38JdGordon|rasher: i'm saying... how can you know if a tag is missing in v2 if you dont have a mapping of which v1 tags are equivilant to v2?
00:31:54rasherJdGordon|: We've been through that. Read back
00:32:13*JdGordon| will have to read and return to argue later tonight after work
00:32:15gevaertsIf there's not a single displayable v2 tag, use v1. If there is at least one, use v2
00:32:29 Quit arohtar (Client Quit)
00:33:34pixelmareplaygain tags (or at least their type) are displayable
00:33:38caspy7perhaps it's a shot in the dark that anyone would have knowledge of this, but I just got a refurbished sansa c240 player and I went to put it in MSC mode, but the USB menu option described in the instruciton manual is not present so I can't do it
00:33:44caspy7anyone seen this before?
00:33:45JdGordon|thats not whats the task bug says though.. there is a difference between no tags at all, and missing tags
00:34:06caspy7also, how can I know if this is a 1.0 or a 2.0 player to it's supportable by rockbox?
00:34:06rashercaspy7: I think you need to downgrade or upgrade your OF
00:34:17rashercaspy7: Check the firmware version
00:34:28caspy7rasher: what does OF stand for?
00:34:33rasherOriginal Firmware
00:34:40caspy7rasher: how can I check the firmware?
00:34:50saratogai think theres a FAQ entry for this on the wiki
00:34:53rasherIt's somewhere in the menus
00:34:53saratogai'd check there
00:34:55pixelmarasher: I know, but if you start to support the mixture halfway people won't understand why you don't do it completely
00:35:17mcuelenaeregevaerts: I suppose set_serial_descriptor() needs to be unique to each device?
00:35:27gevaertsmcuelenaere: yes
00:35:46rasherpixelma: This isn't true if you use the "any displayable (in the WPS) tag" method
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00:36:10pixelma[00:33:34] <pixelma> replaygain tags (or at least their type) are displayable
00:37:05JdGordon|rasher: whats the difference between displayable tags and generally used tags?
00:37:45JdGordon|replaygain tags are defiently important even if they cant be displayed in the wps
00:38:13rasherI don't see what you're getting at
00:39:36JdGordon|that example track had some valid v2 tags... if it has any at all then v1 tags should be ignored completly (im happy to check v1 IF there is no v2 tags, or only the header)
00:39:52JdGordon|but if there is a single v2 tag we know about then v1 has to be ignored
00:40:10 Quit ender (" An eye for an eye only leads to more blindness. -- Margaret Atwood")
00:41:34rasherSo we can point at users and laugh at their "invalid" (because we say so) tags?
00:41:45rasherWhy not do the right thing and actually work *for* the user?
00:42:20***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:42:24JdGordon|which is why i asked before... how can you merge the 2 sets of tags (giving v2 priority) if you dont know how to map v1 to v2 tags?
00:42:29rasherRather than spitefully ignoring his tags that are actually there
00:43:08rasherJdGordon|: We've done that for years! Stop being willfully obtuse
00:43:29*JdGordon| is confused
00:43:41 Join gregorovius [0] (n=diego@190.55.80.21)
00:43:58mcuelenaeregevaerts: what should I do if there's no unique identifier?
00:44:05rasherWe've supported v1 and v2 for many years and managed to display them in the WPS just fine
00:44:12 Quit n1s ("Lämnar")
00:44:13mcuelenaereoh you went to sleep
00:45:04 Quit faemir (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:45:29JdGordon|if thats what we've supported for years, and they are being shown in the wps they are being loaded... so whats the rpoblem?
00:45:56rasherJdGordon|: FS #10016.
00:46:02pixelmarasher: your method would say they are invalid for some too, just at a later point
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00:46:42rasherpixelma: So we shouldn't improve the situation because there might still be corner-cases?
00:48:07 Quit pbxy ("Leaving")
00:48:41 Part toffe82
00:50:30pixelmaI just don't like the perspective of always reading both tags, which I could *imagine* to happen if corner-case affected people demand more (and then have an additional argument that it's partially supported)
00:52:37 Quit miepchen^schla ()
00:52:45rasherThere's no such slippery slope. 1) I can't come up with any actual valid cases 2) Implementing code that leads to *always* reading both tags is easy to reject on performance reasons.
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00:53:14JdGordon|it has to be always....
00:53:55rasherIt really really doesn't.
00:54:12JdGordon|if its possible than even one v1 tag is there when a v2 tag is missing then you always have to read both
00:54:30mcuelenaereare there any sources for the cabbiev2 theme?
00:54:41saratogaonce again i think the idea was to ignore TXXX frames, not diff the two tags
00:54:54rasherJdGordon|: This has been explained again and again.
00:55:01saratogamcuelenaere: yes theres actually a theme file for it, although the version you get by default is hard coded
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00:55:14saratogaits on the themes wiki
00:55:19rashermcuelenaere: What kind of source, the images?
00:55:30mcuelenaereyes, more specifically the background image
00:55:35mcuelenaere(I need a bigger version for the Onda)
00:55:42rasherhttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/pub/Main/DefaultWPS/cabbie2graphics.zip
00:55:47mcuelenaerethanks
00:56:29rasherIt was a bit messy in GIMP, but I managed to extract the volume meter at least.
00:56:49mcuelenaerehmm Photoshop complains about missing fonts
00:56:57JdGordon|what size screen is the onda?
00:57:19 Quit StealthyXIIGer ()
00:57:33mcuelenaere400x240 (or 240x400)
00:57:35rashermcuelenaere: I guess gimp didn't even try to do anything with fonts
00:57:41mcuelenaerecurrently it's set to 240x400
00:57:45JdGordon|ok
00:57:58*mcuelenaere isn't sure which to choose
00:58:14JdGordon|does it have a dock?
00:58:31mcuelenaerenope
00:58:55*JdGordon| thinks we should supply 2 different builds for the touchscreen targets so people can choose which orientation they prefer
00:59:08mcuelenaerehmm the cabiev2 background theme source is 220x176? how did they generate 320x240 of that?
00:59:23mcuelenaereJdGordon|: that, or dynamic rotation
00:59:33JdGordon|yeah, or that
00:59:35pixelmasaratoga: can you explain in a few words for someone uninformed what TXXX tags can be (contain)?
01:00
01:00:01 Quit _Auron_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:00:02kugelJdGordon|: how hard would it be to have it configurable at runtime?
01:00:05rasherpixelma: Any name=value pair. It's impossible to know in advance.
01:00:17kugelI don't think RAM for shipping both codes is an issue on these targets
01:00:18mcuelenaerekugel: LCD_WIDTH & LCD_HEIGHT are #define's..
01:00:32 Join _Auron_ [0] (n=DarkAuro@ppp-70-249-146-14.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net)
01:00:42mcuelenaereor are you talking about something else?
01:00:44kugelahh, I got it wrong, sorry
01:00:45rasherIt would certainly require major surgey to the Rockbox code
01:01:00kugelyea, I thought the talk was about the keymap, sorry
01:01:04pixelmarasher: huh? So even album, artist etc?
01:01:10kugels/keymap/input method/
01:01:22JdGordon|touchscreens dont have keymaps so its easier...
01:01:28mcuelenaerea rotationable input method?
01:01:29JdGordon|or wont once the ui is working properly
01:01:38rasherpixelma: I don't see why you'd put it there unless you're inventing your own tagging, but yes. No programs will read that though
01:01:44rasher(and rightfully so)
01:01:45kugelbut it's grid vs "the other method" (what ever that is called)
01:02:03rasherpixelma: But it's really just for freeform named text content
01:02:15mcuelenaerekugel: 'normal' touch input?
01:02:31mcuelenaereIMO the grid is a bit of a hack
01:02:36kugeloh it's the "normal"? Why is the grid one the default, then
01:02:44mcuelenaerebecause not all screens are ported
01:02:58JdGordon|yeah, the grid isnt very useful
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01:03:13kugelbut you can choose at runtime between each?
01:03:17*JdGordon| hopes to do touchscreen work on sunday thanks to kkurbjun's latest effort
01:03:20pixelmarasher: aha, so not the standard way of tagging
01:03:21mcuelenaerenot on all targets I think
01:03:29rasherpixelma: Certainly not
01:03:45JdGordon|kugel: untill everything is working, screens will say which method to use..
01:04:18kugelJdGordon|: may I ask what happened to your wps-next-track rework?
01:04:41kugelyou have a hwcodec target now, and I'd like to see it in svn
01:04:59JdGordon|i havnt got my desktop back yet, and no cable to connect the archos to a comp
01:05:07JdGordon|i get both of them tomorow though
01:05:36kugelah cool
01:05:47pixelmahaving a target also doesn't mean knowing its code by hard
01:06:10JdGordon|touchscreen work might jump the queue though
01:06:12kugelYou don't need to tell me
01:06:32kugelbut it aids testing, and thus resolving remaining
01:06:38kugelissue
01:07:00JdGordon|well ths one is impossible to get anywhere without the hwcodec because testing hasnt helped much
01:07:18JdGordon|s/.../ the people who know the code havnt helped out
01:07:44*JdGordon| heads home
01:07:46kugelyea
01:07:49 Quit JdGordon| ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
01:10:45amiconnwps-next-track rework? What's that do?
01:14:57kugelamiconn: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9795
01:17:19 Quit dfkt ("-= SysReset 2.53=- Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.")
01:18:37mcuelenaerehow can I trigger wpsbuild.pl with make?
01:18:48 Quit faemir ("Leaving")
01:19:58kugelmcuelenaere: "make install"?
01:20:35kugelor make tar etc. I believe the themes & fonts aren't done during normal make
01:20:38mcuelenaerekugel: doesn't 'make zip' also does this?
01:20:53kugelsee above ;)
01:21:22mcuelenaere:) anyway, I'm doing something wrong as cabbie isn't showing up in my wps folder..
01:21:46amiconnThat patch seems to cause more problems than it's fixing...
01:22:14mcuelenaerekugel: does http://pastebin.com/m48aee274 look correct?
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01:23:36kugelmcuelenaere: Do you you have the wps done?
01:23:53mcuelenaerewhat do you mean with 'having the wps done'?
01:23:56kugelYou need to have the .wps complete, else the .cfg won't be build either
01:24:25mcuelenaereoh so there needs to be a cabbiev2.240x400x16.wps file?
01:24:30kugelyea
01:25:41*mcuelenaere basically stretched the background of the gigabeat cabbiev2 and made sure the controls stayed on the same position
01:25:47 Quit killan_ ("( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com )")
01:26:25linuxstbrasher: How's the theme site going? Is it close to committing?
01:26:46linuxstbOr rather, is it close to being a theme site?
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01:27:23rasherI've not really done anything with it since the weekend. Just pushed some changes to the git repository though
01:27:44linuxstbSo what's left on the to-do list?
01:28:09*linuxstb sees the site has a TODO list...
01:29:05linuxstbrasher: Are they all things you consider necessary before making it live?
01:29:18rasherI think we can live without some of them
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01:29:21JdGordonamiconn: it doesnt cause any problems... hwcodec is broken with the patch though which is why i have been asking for help on it for 2 months
01:29:54amiconnThere are several problems for swcodec mentioned which you just put aside as "unimportant"
01:29:54rasherlinuxstb: The short term ones are essential I think. And we probably also *need* logging
01:30:12amiconnAnd I doN#t understand what this patch is trying to fix... wps does work, doesn't it?
01:30:18linuxstbJdGordon: The task says that it breaks runtime data collection though?
01:30:25rasherlinuxstb: Because something will go wrong, and we'll want to know whodunnit
01:30:34JdGordonlinuxstb: not intentionally...
01:31:00amiconnAlso, I would be a lousy tester for that stuff. I don't use runtime data, I don't use cuesheets, I don't use next track info...
01:31:03linuxstbJdGordon: That's even worse than breaking it intentionally...
01:31:37 Quit jeffronius (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
01:31:57JdGordonamiconn: sure, but the hwcodedc bugs are apparently painfully obvious... and you know the area (at least more than me)
01:32:57JdGordonlinuxstb: yes, but thats only a problem if its ready to be comited.. which this isnt
01:33:34amiconnThe brokenness is about next track info, which none of my wps'es has
01:33:47mcuelenaerewhy does have WPSLIST have backdrops/cabbiev2.* listed? (and stating it's the source filename) Shouldn't that be cabbiev2/wpsbackdrop-* ?
01:34:28amiconnBut the point here is that next track info on hwcodec only becomes availbale when the first part of next track is buffered, i.e. usually *between* track changes
01:34:51amiconnSo only doing a full redraw of trackchange is fundamentally broken behaviour on hwcodec
01:35:07JdGordonthat shouldnt make a difference... the patch tries to let the WPS know when that info is avilable
01:35:21JdGordonand when the wps gets that event it does a full redraw
01:36:08 Quit tarbo (Connection timed out)
01:36:16*JdGordon doesnt really remember what problems that patch was done to fix :p
01:36:46 Quit Conic ()
01:37:24kugelJdGordon: seems to be related to the cue sheet patch, which revealed some problems
01:37:32kugelaccording to an early comment
01:37:37JdGordonah yes
01:38:59kugelbasically the problem is that wps and playback both implement track change codes, it should be all done in playback
01:39:02amiconnAha, a new event
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01:39:30kugelfading on pause is only done in wps, which is broken imo. the same goes for skip length and other stuff
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01:40:05kugel(and it appeared to me, that the patch tries to clean those things up)
01:40:11JdGordonamiconn: ?
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01:47:03JdGordon.... amiconn: what was "aha, a new event" meant to mean? good or bad?
01:47:55pixelmamcuelenaere: I think that's the menu backdrop, the WPS backdrop should only be specified in the .wps file
01:48:31mcuelenaereoh ok, thanks
01:49:17amiconnJust that you added another even for next track info availability
01:51:58JdGordonis that a bad thing? or nuetral? I know there has been almost no talk about how much we really want to use events and where we should and sholdnt use them
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02:00
02:10:03*kugel doesn't think it's a bad think
02:10:42kugelit's not much different from queue posting and broadcasting, we use that extensively too
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02:24:06 Part moos ("Rockbox rules the DAP world")
02:32:12 Part Aurix_Lexico
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02:42:22***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:42:26Strife89Feature freeze for Rockbox 3.2?
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04:00:50dmbhey
04:02:00dmbis there any prebuilt development version of an e200 v2 image?
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04:26:13pathologic__I've managed to use sendfirm to transfer an nk.bin file to my Gigabeat S30. I extracted Rockbox into the right partition, but my Gigabeat still tells me "File not found". Can anybody help?
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05:11:49countrymonkeyCould fs#10004 please be looked at? If not the voice patch, only the chinese correction.
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08:29:49amiconnHmm. I guess we should do something about the physical sector size thing as those disks will probably become more widespread
08:31:12amiconnProblem is, if we increase MAX_PHYS_SECTOR_SIZE to 4096, it will both waste RAM for all other users *and* be slower for those 4KB-sector drives
08:31:58amiconnThose drives are able to split/join sectors themselves, which is more efficient than rockbox doing it
08:32:32linuxstbA new build?
08:32:42amiconnJust the original 80GB ipod video's hdd isn't, and hence needs rockbox doing it
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08:33:45amiconnI think that since it's a firmware quirk in that specific drive, the ata driver should probably check for that specific drive, and only do internal large sector management for this drive.
08:34:59amiconnAnother alternative would be probing the drive, if a name check is undesired
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08:35:49amiconnI.e. try a 512-byte read, and if the drive responds with IDNF, enable large sector handling
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08:38:53n1sif you are fairly certain this is only done by those drives i think a name check is fine (if it's significantly simpler than the probe)
08:41:12amiconnSomeone (I don't remember who) tested rockbox on such a disk with MAX_PHYS_SECTOR_SIZE set to 4096 versus MAX_PHYS_SECTOR_SIZE being undefined. The latter still worked and gave better performance
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08:54:05lucentHi, how is Sansa Fuze port coming along since I last dropped in a month ago?
08:54:22lucentstill data > 1GB issues?
08:57:14linuxstblucent: I think so. You can check the changelog for what's been committed related to the fuze - http://www.rockbox.org/since-4weeks.html
08:57:41lucentgood link, thanks linuxstb
08:58:29linuxstbIt's the "since 4 weeks" link on the front page (underneath the last 5 svn commits)
08:58:37linuxstbOr rather "last four weeks"
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09:03:47lucentr20058: Fix occasional power button ghost presses and get rid of the delay which was needed to reduce the ghost presses (i.e. don't read power button too during lcd updates)
09:03:50lucentYay!
09:04:01lucentI swore there was something strange going on with my 8GB fuze :P
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09:11:02scorcheB4gder: so, did you want to go ahead and submit the org application? (unless anyone else had any other thoughts...)
09:11:21B4gderah right, I'll go and do that right now
09:11:50B4gderand for the record, their gsoc logo for 2009 is uglier than ever before ;-)
09:12:01scorcheshhhh!
09:14:47*linuxstb visits http://code.google.com and doesn't think much of the Google I/O logo either, but that's not easy to create a logo for...
09:15:51bubsyI like it
09:16:06lucentThe I/O logo? it's too frail
09:16:14B4gderand their web app is always as impossible to even grasp
09:16:19*scorche notes that this isnt -community
09:16:22B4gderman they confuse me
09:16:27lucentlooks more like ICO
09:16:34scorcheB4gder: what part?
09:16:43scorchekeep in mind that you have to create a profile for you first
09:16:44bubsylucent: haha
09:16:46B4gderhow to apply as a mentor org part
09:16:51bubsysomehow, it does :D
09:17:00B4gderscorche: that too is puzzling to me
09:17:10lucentbubsy: anyways I can say with an informed guess that the logo wasn't their top priority.
09:17:10B4gderand I think I screwed up just now
09:17:19scorcheB4gder: feel free to move to PM if you need help..
09:17:39lucentI wouldn't worry that the logo being attractive or not attractive would impact development as relating to RB
09:17:50B4gderI thought "link id" was for the project, so I wrote "rockbox" and now I think it is for me personally and I can't edit the field anymore...
09:18:04scorcheugh....i was afraid you would say that =/
09:18:24scorchelink_ids are permanent...
09:18:32B4gderhaha, ccrrrrrrap
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09:19:56linuxstbIs the main programming period of May 23 to Aug 24 the same as previous years? It strikes me as very early.
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09:20:43linuxstbIs that when the US summer break is?
09:21:40lucentcollege students I think have a break at the beginning of April, or maybe that is highschool
09:21:45lucentfirst two weeks or so
09:22:02scorcheB4gder: well, we get to wait a while now and hope a single solitary person comes online so he can delete you...
09:22:10bubsyhej Bagder, så du är svensk? :>
09:23:05B4gderbubsy: yah, Rockbox even originated in good old Sweden
09:23:14bubsy(-:
09:23:18bubsyI'm Norwegian tho'
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09:24:31B4gderI wonder which country has the largest amount of committers now
09:25:07B4gderit might be US
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10:04:17caspy7so, what's it mean when I install rockbox and start up my player and it eternally blinks the rockbox startup screen at me?
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10:11:02dionoeacaspy7: must mean that something went wrong. (More info, like the name of the player you're using could help)
10:12:56caspy7sansa c240
10:13:07caspy7I installed and uninstalled twice
10:13:27linuxstbWhat's the "rockbox startup screen" ? i.e. exactly what do you see on the screen?
10:14:22caspy7sheesh...I'd have to redo it real quick to tell you, I know it's got the rockbox logo
10:15:27caspy7is saying the logo enough, or would more info be provided if I reinstalled?
10:15:47n1scaspy7: that usually means that you only installed the bootloader, not the actual rockbox
10:16:09n1sthe c200 bootloader has a bug that it just loops if it can't find the main binary
10:16:37n1sloops flashing the logo, and _very_ briefly "could not find ..."
10:17:21n1scaspy7: how are you installing?
10:17:54caspy7yeah, that sounds about right, but I (attempted to) installed both, first I tried the Quick start, then I tried the separate ones under the Installation Tab
10:18:03caspy7using the RockBox Utility
10:18:40n1sif the install worked you should have a .rockbox dir with the rockbox files in it in the root of the player
10:18:47linuxstbn1s: Has that been fixed in SVN? Looking at main-pp.c, it seems to be the case for all bootloaders using that file...
10:19:27n1slinuxstb: don't know, it's definitely present in the 5.0 version (current official version)
10:19:46caspy7ok, I'll install and see what's in the filesystem
10:19:49linuxstbAh no, just if OLD_BOOTFILE is not defined - it's defined for e200 and h10...
10:20:35n1swhat does OLD_BOOTFILE mean?
10:21:03linuxstbI think it's the old format for the main Rockbox binary, before we swiched to using mi4 files.
10:21:15caspy7ok, I just installed the bootloader, I'm curious, where is that kept?
10:21:16linuxstbi.e. the normal scramble -add format.
10:21:32n1scaspy7: in a hidden firmware partition
10:21:39caspy7...ah
10:22:02n1slinuxstb: ok, so it shouldn't be defined for c200?
10:22:27linuxstbI think it's probably safe to just remove that now.
10:22:34n1syeah
10:22:38linuxstbi.e. it was just a transitional thing.
10:22:57caspy7ok, so I clicked to install Rockbox and it went through progress items and ended with Installation finished successfully
10:23:10n1smaybe this fix should go into the release version of the bootloader?
10:23:17caspy7what should I see in the filesystem? how can I check?
10:23:38n1scaspy7: <n1s> if the install worked you should have a .rockbox dir with the rockbox files in it in the root of the player
10:23:40linuxstbn1s: Yes, I think so.
10:24:17caspy7linuxstb: I do not
10:24:28caspy7the installer utility is lying to me
10:24:42n1sok, i'll be happy to test if someone fixes it, too busy with exams to hack on it
10:24:59caspy7also, I noticed that the rockbox installation, despite all the various progress items seeming to be present, goes extremely quickly
10:25:00linuxstbWhat OS are you using (Windows, OS X, Linux?) Some file browsers will hide ".rockbox"
10:25:10caspy7OS X
10:25:37linuxstbThen that will hide it.
10:25:43linuxstb(if you're just using Finder)
10:26:04caspy7I think i've set it before to display hidden files...lemme look in prefs
10:26:56linuxstbBut I have a feeling there may be a bug in rbutil with combination of OS X and Sansa - I'm not sure though...
10:27:32caspy7anyone know off the top of their head the place in OS X finder where show hidden files would be...?
10:27:58linuxstbcaspy7: Did you do the "full install" or install the bootloader and Rockbox separately? There's a known bug relating to that - http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/RockboxUtility#Change_Log
10:28:53caspy7linuxstb: first I did the full install, then when the problem happened, I uninstalled and tried the separate go
10:31:13caspy7ok, I looked and there's no .rockbox
10:31:57caspy7There's .Trashes .Spotlight-V100 and .fseventsd
10:33:02n1scaspy7: you could try a manual install then, just get the zip from rockbox.org and extract it to the player but beware of OSX's unzipping tool...
10:33:38caspy7n1s: why beware?
10:35:54caspy7argh, too many options and my brain's not working, all I'm seeing for downloads is the RockBox Utility installer, where would I find the zip?
10:36:00BigBambiB4gder: Could be, but the US is huge - it ought to be EU or US rather than individual EU countries :)
10:36:11B4gder:-)
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10:37:32caspy7ok, may have found it on the releases page, rockbox-sansac200-3.1.zip yes?
10:38:41caspy7can anyone tell me why I need to beware the OS X unzipping tool when dealing with the zip?
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10:40:36n1scaspy7: some users have had problems with it creating extra dirs etc so i would recomend using a comand line tool
10:41:20n1sor maybe it did something strange because the zip only contains a hidden dir
10:42:01caspy7n1s: here's what happened, I double clicked to unzip (I put it in it's own folder just in case) and it created a .rockbox folder full of stuff and a .DS_Store file, both invisible
10:42:16caspy7that sound good or would you still recommend a 3rd party?
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10:42:46n1scaspy7: ok, as long as that .rockbox dir has all the stuff in it in the correct dir tree you just need to copy that to the root of the sansa
10:43:42caspy7n1s: done, what about .DS_Store?
10:43:51lucentsounds unrelated
10:43:57lucentprobably some OSX thing
10:44:03caspy7ah
10:44:14n1syeah, that's a finder thing
10:44:18caspy7gotcha
10:44:31caspy7ok, am I ready to give it a go?
10:44:36n1sthink so
10:44:46caspy7k
10:45:18n1swas it the 1.1 version of rbutil you tried?
10:46:48caspy7holy schnikies, I think it worked
10:46:52caspy7n1s: yes
10:47:20n1sso it gave no error, just didn't install the files?
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10:48:47caspy7n1s: thing is, I remember at some point things didn't go right, I know it froze up once or twice and I had to kill it, but I don't remember if that was the first time or not
10:49:06caspy7my memory ain't so hot
10:49:16caspy7but subsequent installs gave no error
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10:49:43n1sok, that's a bit bad...
10:49:44caspy7I know it gave at error when I did the 'quick' and it said that it couldn't install themes
10:50:14caspy7at least subsequent installs using the separate installer things
10:50:56caspy7then after it gave the themes warning there was nothing else, no 'success' or anything
10:52:26caspy7any recommendations for a theme?
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11:00:01pixelmayou can try the shipped ones (not many on the c200 but still) and have a look at http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WpsSansaC200 . I woldn't recommend one as it's a matter of taste
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11:00:24pewe_kodokhello sll
11:01:24n1slinuxstb: looking at the bootloader code, this seems like an easy fix but wouldn't we want to try to boot the OF if rockbox is not found?
11:01:30pixelmathat reminds me that I still need to figure out why my own theme works 100% as intended in the sim but has a slight flaw on target (fg colour is wrong in one or two viewports)
11:02:55lucentn1s: OF is generally bootable by hold + power
11:03:01linuxstbn1s: I don't think we do on most other targets - we display a message so the user knows why Rockbox failed. But that often causes confusion, so yes, maybe show a message, wait 5 seconds, then start the original firmware would be sensible.
11:03:02lucentso why...
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11:03:25linuxstb(people don't know what to do when their device is "stuck" in the rockbox bootloader)
11:03:53n1syes, that seems like the friendliest solution
11:04:15n1sjust need to rejig some of the logic
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11:05:40caspy7thanks for your help n1s, linuxstb and everybody else
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11:14:39n1sis there any reason to keep #if 0'ed code for dumping the fw partition around in the bootloader?
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11:34:51markunlinuxstb: do you know much about the quicktime container and AAC codec?
11:35:24linuxstbNo. But isn't quicktime the same (or very similar) to mp4?
11:35:34markunyes, that's what I mean
11:35:57markun(but it's sometimes called quicktime in the source)
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11:36:25markunI'll wait for Lear
11:37:41markunI think we could rename a few functions anyway. Some are caled alac_... and are used in the demuxer for both alac and aac.
11:37:46linuxstbOur "libm4a" was based on the ALAC decoder (I implemented ALAC in Rockbox first, then AAC was added), and then Lear did lots of work to improve it.
11:38:24linuxstb(IIRC...)
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11:39:50markunI made a change which made it play back one of the files I have, but the ones that don't play don't have the mdat atom at the end and there is a comment which tells me that rockbox doesn't support that.
11:39:57markunI just don't know how to fix it.
11:40:28pewe_kodokI get trouble installing rockbox on ipod video 5.5
11:41:11pewe_kodokwhat i did convert FAT32 manually, using rbutil patch bootloader, and unzip rockbox manually
11:41:34linuxstbpewe_kodok: After you converted to FAT32, did the Apple firmware still work?
11:41:46pewe_kodokunzip to root dir, but when ipod restart "file not found"
11:41:47n1slinuxstb: posted a patch for the pp bootloader at FS #10018 if you are interested
11:41:53pewe_kodokyes it's work
11:42:15linuxstbpewe_kodok: What did you use to do the actual format? Did you specify 2048-byte sectors?
11:42:19pewe_kodokI can load apple firmware (hole menu button when restart) and play tunes
11:42:43linuxstbDo you have a ".rockbox" directory in the root of your ipod, and a "rockbox.ipod" file inside there?
11:42:55pewe_kodokI had "mkdosfs -F 32 -BS 2048 -n ipod /dev/sdb' at linux
11:43:14linuxstbpewe_kodok: I'm assuming that was OK, as the Apple firmware seems happy.
11:44:21gevaerts/dev/sdb? That looks wrong...
11:44:32pewe_kodokyes, I put H:\.rockbox and rockbox.ipod inside
11:44:56pewe_kodokoops sorry, incorrect typing
11:45:03pewe_kodok/dev/sdb2
11:45:16pewe_kodokwhat to check next?
11:45:49linuxstbSo you converted using Linux, and then installed manually (i.e. not using rbutil) in Windows?
11:46:06pewe_kodokuse rbutil @ win
11:46:26pewe_kodokI used linux for dd & make FAT32
11:46:48pewe_kodokcouldn't figure out to patch bootloader manually
11:47:18 Quit lightbulbjim (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
11:47:19pewe_kodok Main firmware - 7561216 bytes
11:47:20pewe_kodok Third-party bootloader - 48024 bytes
11:47:21linuxstbDid you safely eject your ipod after running rbutil?
11:47:48pewe_kodokafter running rbutil, unzip rockbox then eject
11:48:16pewe_kodok"safely remove" at right bottom cornet
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11:48:36pewe_kodokdid I do something wrong?
11:49:42pewe_kodokbtw where I can download rockbox boot loader?
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12:00:48pewe_kodokI will try this link http://download.rockbox.org/bootloader/ipod/bootloader-ipodvideo.ipod
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12:12:40pewe_kodok1try ipodpatcher manually, no luck
12:12:55pewe_kodok1any other suggestion what check
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15:14:01zmyrgelany suggestions what to do, when installing rb to my 5th gen iPod it gives "extracting failed: unable to create or open file.."
15:14:46zmyrgelit seems to switch the /mnt where I have mounted the ipod to read-only altough before the installer it was rw
15:15:45gevaertsCheck the dmesg output. You probably have filesystem corruption
15:17:38zmyrgelit gives FAT: Filesystem panic"
15:17:55zmyrgelso I quess corruption is to be blamed
15:18:03zmyrgelany way to remedy that?
15:18:27gevaertsfsck.vfat should help
15:19:20zmyrgelI don't have that. Which package had that tool?
15:19:27zmyrgelmsdosutils... or something?
15:20:05zmyrgelah, found it. Was dosfstools
15:23:30zmyrgelumm, I ran fsck.vfat /dev/sdb2 and it lists errors and gives option: 1) Correct 2) Don't correct but when I give 1 and press enter it just states that "Leaving filesystem unchanged"
15:25:27evilnickzmyrgel: Maybe it's still read-only?
15:26:01zmyrgelI umounted it for the check
15:27:20gevaertszmyrgel: I've seen that as well. If you run it with -a it corrects everyting automatically. Of course, if you're not sure that may not be the best thing to do. Do you have backups of everything on the ipod?
15:28:12zmyrgelwell, everything except apple firmware
15:28:42gevaertsok. You can restore that from other sources, and it's not on this filesystem anyway, so I'd say go ahead
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15:33:53zmyrgelok, now it seems to work
15:34:49zmyrgelIf I get this to work and it feels good to use I could convert my music collection to ogg
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15:45:01kugellucent: hi
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16:08:36PaulJamrasher: is FS #10016 really a bug? i thought this was by design to entirely skip the v1 tag if a v2 tag is found in order to have less disk activity because the v1 tag is at the end of the file.
16:15:53kugelPaulJam: the logs of yesterday, there was a long discussion
16:16:18kugelIMO whether this is a bug or not, id3v1 should be deprecated entirely
16:17:08PaulJamkugel: thanks, ill have a look later.
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16:22:51BigBambiSaying we should get rid of ID3 v1 entirely is silly IMO
16:24:20BigBambiThey are valid, and I would bet that there are some apps still using them. I don't think we ought to force the user through unnecessary hoops to use Rockbox just because v1 are a bit annoying
16:27:38B4gderLyrePlayer ? TargetLyre? what's a good wiki name?
16:28:08LloreanOpenPlayerLyre?
16:28:19LloreanI like the idea of having some sort of standard prefix for future hardware projects.
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16:57:53toffe82isn't there a rca player called lira ? lyre is a little close to this no ?
16:58:34kugelI don't think so
16:58:52kugelbut you never know what those lawyers say
16:59:51toffe82http://reviews.cnet.com/mp3-players/rca-lyra-m100512-512mb/4505-6490_7-31763666.html
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17:02:43LambdaCalculus37I would think that it's pretty hard to confuse "Lyra" with "Lyre".
17:03:16toffe82I think it is too close
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17:03:23*evilnick wonders if there's any irony in the name being pronounced "Liar"!
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17:06:12LambdaCalculus37evilnick: The irony runneth over. :)
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17:07:08kugelLambdaCalculus37: well, he said lira, not lyra, in the first place
17:07:17kugellyra and lyre is a bit confusing, indeed
17:07:37kugelevilnick: thanks! I already wondered how to pronounce it
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17:13:26Lloreantoffe82: There are MP3 players by two different companies named "Rockbox" and "Rocbox", I think "Lyra" and "Lyre" are about equally close. Does RCA even sell the Lyra any more?
17:14:23toffe82I don't think so
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17:21:50rashermidgey (for the logs): Did genlang (-u) become far slower? Not that it's a problem, just curious.
17:22:06LambdaCalculus37toffe82: I think the Lyra's long been discontinued by RCA.
17:32:53scorche|shB4gder: just to more-than-double check, we are all good for the org app deadline to come now, yes? =P
17:33:39B4gderyes, things are fine
17:33:58scorche|shok
17:34:23scorche|sh(that said, people can still have a look at the ideas list and improve where they can see something needed) *hope*
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17:41:18kugellucent: I'd like to hear your opinion on the new wheel acceleration for the fuze (/me will read the irc logs)
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18:53:29bertrikI have a couple of questions about gsoc 2009
18:53:57bertrikIf I propose a project for rockbox gsoc 2009, does it also mean I have to mentor it?
18:55:03JdGordon__no
18:55:27bertrikWho gets to choose the projects to implement? Does google choose a project based on the description, or do we get a couple of students assigned that we (rockbox) can find a fitting project for?
18:55:54*JdGordon__ buzzes scorche to answer coz im heading out
18:57:03Lloreanbertrik: Students say "I'm interested in Project X" and write a proposal and try to convince us they're a good student.
18:57:28LloreanWe rate student/project pairs in order of preference to us. Google then decides how many students we get, and we basically get our top X projects.
18:57:29Bagderand that the project is cool
18:58:39bertrikLlorean, thanks
18:58:39LloreanYes. Students may even propose their own projects not on the list.
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19:13:26Horschtdamn, i wish there was a tool which would write the rockbox tagcache while being connected to the PC...
19:16:31rasherHorscht: There is!
19:16:44Horschtwhat is it called?
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19:16:53Horschtwhen did that happen?
19:17:03rasherHorscht: cd tools/database; make
19:17:10rasherIt's been there for a long time
19:17:14rasherBut often not working
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19:17:31Horschtwell, that's bad if it often isn't working, isn't it?
19:18:01Horschtbut that reminds me
19:18:17rasherNot working in the sense that it stops compiling
19:18:20HorschtI still have to get a build environment up and running in Virtualbox
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19:41:17Kohlrabisorry
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19:48:39saratoga\join rockbox-community
19:49:08*gevaerts explains the difference between slashes and backslashes to saratoga :)
19:49:13*Horscht gives saratoga a /
19:49:48saratogait wouldn't have helped there was also a space before the slash
19:50:14Horschtnot here it wasnt
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20:03:14orsonjMy little Indy finally learned to crawl _forward_ last night.
20:04:59Horschtmeh, crap. ftp.gnu.org seems down...
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20:05:25LambdaCalculus37orsonj: What does that have to do with Rockbox?
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20:05:45orsonjsorry, wrong channel
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20:31:41amiconnUnhelpful: ping
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21:07:36evilnickJust a thought; if the beast bootloader has been changed (the UDMA work) should the .bin file on the Wiki be updated too?
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21:20:51Jrockzhey everyone....could use some help if available
21:21:52evilnickJrockz: What's the question?
21:22:17linuxstbevilnick: No, bootloader binaries shouldn't be in the wiki, they should be on the download server (or maybe flyspray if they're for testing)...
21:24:35evilnicklinuxstb: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/GigabeatSInstallation lists a binary. I assume that this is because the beast is not yet supported?
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21:26:28linuxstbevilnick: It's one of the reasons it's not yet supported - no-one has made an official bootloader binary and put it on the download server.
21:28:14evilnickGotchya
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21:38:14Jrockzevil nick - I installed rockbox on my sansa c250 but after i installed it the rockbox logo hangs on the screen and i can't do anything...what am i doing wrong?
21:38:56linuxstbDoes the logo just stay there, or does Rockbox repeatedly reboot, showing the logo each time?
21:38:58evilnickJrockz: Sorry, I don't own that player, what does the bootloader text say though? (should be white text on a black background)
21:40:40Jrockzit's pretty much the sansa screen and then it switches to rockbox...then it hangs from there
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21:41:24linuxstbIs there any text on the screen, or just the Rockbox logo?
21:41:35evilnickJrockz: You should try to be as precise as possible so that we can help. Can you tell us exactly what happens from when you switch the player on?
21:42:52Jrockzok..
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21:43:41Jrockzgive me a sec...i will check again
21:45:45JrockzI turn it on and it shows the sansa screen for about a sec...then it switches to the rockbox logo and it shows the version on the bottom...that's where it hangs....i cannot do anything at this point
21:47:06linuxstbWhat's the exact text at the bottom?
21:48:51Jrockzver. r20321-090313
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21:49:49linuxstbOK, so you've (sort-of) successfully installed the bootloader and Rockbox itself. The first thing I would do would be to check the disk in your sansa for errors (e.g. using chkdsk)
21:51:55Jrockzok, i did that and it found no problems
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22:00:43linuxstbJrockz: Then I'm out of ideas. That's definitely not how Rockbox normally behaves.... You could try installing an older version of Rockbox - e.g. the 3.1 release.
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22:04:44pixelmahmm, are the tts engines not clever enough to pronounce bigger numbers correctly? I saw fml's commit and noticed that he spelled out the 38400 for the voice string and now asking myself if that's the safer route to go for other languages as well...
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22:07:03pixelmaI mean "spelled out" as in writing: thirty eight thousand four hundred
22:07:41amiconnAll the sapi5 engines I have don't need that
22:08:02archivatorpixelma: depends on which engine you're using. Some can parse numbers, others can't. My biggest pain is 01 - it's *always* zero one and not just one.
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22:09:15amiconnWell, I'd expect a leading zero to make a tts switch to single digits instead of numbers
22:09:25amiconnWhy else would you write it that way?
22:09:32LloreanI have to agree with amiconn there.
22:09:34linuxstbSo it will sort correctly ;)
22:09:39LloreanIf there's a zero, don't assume it's a mistake.
22:10:04archivatorWell, in my case it's a file name, so linuxstb is correct -sorting is my primary concern.
22:10:45linuxstbarchivator: But you don't need that any more with Rockbox.
22:10:55pixelmato be more accurate, he didn't add it this way just corrected the spelling
22:11:05archivatorlinuxstb: I still need it with my PC :)
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22:17:58pixelmaI guess it's not that important as "generated" numbers, e.g. if you let it announce free disk space in the info screen can give a different result anyways...
22:19:13*pixelma just looked at the "new" time-and-date screen for the first time on the c200 and it looks... wasteful :\\
22:22:52pixelmawhy does it need a blank line above and below the current time and date field? It leaves only two lines for the menu items (with my user font which is ten I get the menu title - and with an 11 pixels tall one as the default is, it drops the title...)
22:23:55*bertrik agrees with pixelma
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22:24:16pixelmahow does it look on the clip?
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22:24:29pixelmaor e.g. an Archos Recorder
22:25:13bertrikthe time and date screen on the clip looks basically the same as c200
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22:25:45pixelmaok, you'll be using a smaller font
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22:31:59bluebrotherpixelma: I'd prefer a standard menu with maybe a "show time" entry too
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22:51:53amiconnpixelma: The generated numbers aren't composed by the tts engine, but by rockbox
22:52:03eussehi everyone
22:52:15pixelmaamiconn: sure, I know
22:53:19amiconnUnfortunately the rules are hardcoded to English. Back in SH1-only times I had the idea to plug a language specific number composition function into the voice file, but that wouldn't have been trivial even back then, and is even more difficult today with 4 architecures
22:53:21bertrikhi eusse
22:53:30*Bagder is glad to see we have 25 build servers serving us now
22:53:35eusseI'd like to know the latest news about Sansa Connect
22:53:53bluebrotherThe news is: there are no news
22:54:11eusseok
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22:54:26amiconnThere are 3 major problems: (1) the function would need to be 100% position independent code, because the voice file can be loaded anywhere.
22:54:38midgeyrasher: how much slower?
22:55:10amiconn(2) Depending on the language, additional clips might be necessary. Where would the go, and what ID should they get?
22:55:29amiconn(3) Swcodec sims have voice, and they can't execute target CPU code.
22:55:46eussewhat's the first job about this sansa connect
22:56:01gevaertsamiconn: maybe an extra type of "plugin" buffer?
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22:56:30amiconnThat would solve (1), but that's the easiest of the 3 anyway...
22:57:11gevaertsIt should also (make it possible to) solve (3), but that's probably the least important one
22:58:08amiconnYou mean that it would be a special type of plugin as a separate file, i.e. not part of the voice file?
22:58:35gevaertsyes
22:58:58amiconnThat would rise the question how to store the various language specific versions
22:59:14amiconnI wouldn't want to add 25+ extra files just for that
23:00
23:00:31amiconnHmm, actually they could be put into a single file. Simplest method - just concatenated. Might be a little difficult to handle in the loader though
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23:02:01amiconnThat still leaves (2). Maybe it can be solved with the plugin localisation/ voice framework
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23:02:51gevaertsYou'd want this voice-plugin buffer to be adjacent to the audio buffer so you can reuse it if voice is disabled I guess
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23:18:19rashermidgey: 2-3 times slower (guessing from how long my web page takes to update all languages. Maybe the server just got more busy)
23:18:52midgeyhmm, well it might be slower do to check the user tag. it accesses a hashmap for each phrase
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23:19:02midgeybut 2-3 times seems a bit much
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23:26:03FlynDiceanyone got an idea on bnv in arm assembly? Branch on null value?
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23:38:44linuxstbFlynDice: afaik that doesn't exist... What ARM CPU is that for?
23:38:53amiconnFlynDice: That doesn't exist. Check the opcode what it actually is
23:39:12FlynDiceok e200v2 disassm...
23:39:22linuxstbdisassembled with what?
23:39:47FlynDicethe tool that's included w/rockbox
23:40:15linuxstbDon't trust that - see what arm-elf-objdump gives
23:41:21FlynDicebeen crosschecking both but the objdump isn't helping as much. Is it usually better?
23:42:01amiconnLooks like the arm disassembler idsassembles a condition field of 0b1111 ("never" == "nv" for really old arm) as that
23:42:36rasherCould just be a typo? b and n are next to eachother
23:42:38amiconnBut the more recent arm versions redefied those opcodes to mean something entirely different
23:42:39linuxstbThe e200v2 firmware is a mixture of arm and thumb code - are you sure this isn't thumb you're looking at?
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23:43:03linuxstb(the Rockbox disassembler only supports ARM afaik)
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23:43:07amiconnrasher: utils/disassembler/arm/disasm_arm.c line 15ff
23:43:47rasherLine what?
23:44:04linuxstb15 onwards
23:44:08amiconn15 and following
23:44:19amiconnHmm. "In ARMv4, any instruction with a condition field of 0b1111 is UNPREDICTABLE"
23:44:31amiconnARMv5 and above actually put something there
23:44:48linuxstbAnd what's AMS? Just v4?
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23:45:04amiconnyes
23:45:07FlynDicehere's a line " 2520:faa2f000 bnv0xfe8be528" v4 I think
23:45:26linuxstbThat just looks like a constant
23:46:54amiconnIt seems to disassemble data. Btw, objdump does the same, just that it knows 'nv' is invalid for armv4, and it will output .word 0xnnnnnnn in such a case
23:47:51FlynDiceok thanks, I think I've found most of the mmu code with the dissassembly. The obj dump completely obscured it.
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23:50:01Horschtwhat package from ubuntu intrepid am I missing: /home/sascha/rockbox/apps/action.c:26:18: error: lang.h: No such file or directory
23:50:12Horschtthat's the error i get when trying to compile (make)
23:51:38rasherIs this clean Rockbox sources?
23:52:22Horschtyes
23:52:41gevaertsclean build directory?
23:52:42rasherMake clean and reconfigure..
23:53:02gevaertsmake clean, check if there's nothing unexpected left, then reconfigure
23:53:15Bagderand see that perl is installed
23:56:40Horschtok, not sure why id didn't work the first time around, now it seems to work
23:57:12Horschtremoved build dir completely
23:58:21gevaertsA few days (weeks?) ago there was a change that moved some files around, and it made make clean not clean everything properly if cleaning an older build with a newer revision
23:58:55Horschtwell, funny thing is, I got the error the first time around.

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