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#rockbox log for 2009-03-16

00:00:15bluebrotherwell, if you want to do hardware it might be a good idea to talk with the people that do the software. Same the other way round −− the only problem is that commercial hardware companies don't come here ;-)
00:02:25casainhobluebrother: a long time a ago I started writing on Rockbox wiki about the hardware, and I went here asking about it...
00:03:01casainhofor example, I remember that at first times I wanted to use AVR32... and I clear remember Bagder explain why we should use ARM...
00:03:19casainhoI remember and wrote the values of RAM, etc, etc
00:03:21 Quit t0mas ("Leaving")
00:03:47bluebrotherwell, that was hardware talk, was it?
00:04:05Lloreangevaerts: Seen FS10026?
00:04:19bluebrotherpeople working on embedded software need to have knowledge about hardware too −− at least to some degree
00:04:29casainhobluebrother: that was a talk to define the minimum hardware needed to run Rockbox
00:05:02bluebrotherso it's hardware talk.
00:05:04gevaertsLlorean: interesting
00:05:13casainhowell, I wrote all the links to datasheets of every piece of hardware, including application notes with code
00:05:21*bluebrother starts to think this discussion is getting pointless
00:05:22Lloreangevaerts: It's not saratoga's problem, but it's *an* e200 problem.
00:05:26bluebrotherso what?
00:05:37casainhobluebrother: sorry, I may not understand you
00:05:55casainhoplease explain, directly
00:05:56gevaertsLlorean: indeed, and moreover one that I hadn't heard about yet...
00:06:03 Join moos [0] (i=Mustapha@rockbox/staff/moos)
00:06:22bluebrotherwell, talking about hardware is hardware talk, is it?
00:06:22casainhoI am getting this error while building: make: *** Sem regra para processar o alvo `/home/cas/Documentos/rockbox_player/rockbox/build_firmware/apps/=======', necessário por `/home/cas/Documentos/rockbox_player/rockbox/build_firmware/rockbox.elf'. Pare.
00:06:39 Part AlHaz ("Leaving")
00:06:42casainhoyes, no?
00:06:47linuxstbgevaerts: Did you also read Toni's comments here this morning?
00:06:48*bluebrother suggests LANG=C
00:06:54casainhosorry, I don't reallt understand what you mean
00:06:54Lloreangevaerts: It does seem to indicate there are some (further?) differences between Sansa USB and iPod USB
00:07:10bluebrotherSem regra para processar linguas
00:07:28*bluebrother has no idea if that is a valid sentence at all :)
00:07:29linuxstbcasainho: That looks like a conflict in a SOURCES file
00:07:29domonokycasainho: looks like you have a merge conflict in this file...
00:07:48Bagder'svn st' tells you
00:07:56gevaertslinuxstb: I saw it, yes. I wanted to ask saratoga to try it when he has a chance
00:08:04bluebrothercasainho: set the compiler to use english language. At least I don't understand spanish
00:08:05casainhothanks :-) :-)
00:08:24casainhobluebrother: hmmm, I don't know how to do it
00:08:28bluebrotherwhile one can guess the meaning at times it's annoying
00:08:34bluebrotherexport LANG=C
00:08:42gevaertsLlorean: anyway, I'm not convinced that FS #10026 this isn't related to saratoga's problem either
00:08:53casainhobluebrother: so, what do you want to talk about that subject of hardware???
00:09:05Lloreangevaerts: I was gonna say "there's a part of me that really hopes it's just the same problem, manifesting in different ways"
00:09:54bluebrotherwell, right now there is nothing to talk about, as far as I can see.
00:10:11bluebrotherbut if other people have tasks (like creating a patch), why shouldn't they come here?
00:10:42gevaertsLlorean: here too. I know e200 (and to a lesser degree c200) have more retried packets than the ipods and than the OF. I'll check tomorrow if that changes with this patch
00:11:23gevaertsfor some curious reason the ipod 5G EDM also has lots of those, but still less than the e200 running rockbox
00:11:49casainhobluebrother: well, I can say this to Hector... I don't know if he comes here or not. Since he tolds me he builds is own Rockbox source for his Ipod, I hope he is at least familiar iwth rockbox tools... he talked a bit with me about Rockbox tracker...
00:12:30bluebrotherand why does he talk with you instead of the "community"?
00:12:57bluebrotherthat's the thing I really don't get. Why are you working in you "own space" instead of the public?
00:12:59stripwaxfwiw, #10026 doesn't appear to have adverse effects on an ipod 5g
00:13:07 Quit Conic ()
00:13:29bluebrothern1s: FS #10025 would have been a feature request, as far as I understand.
00:14:39casainhobluebrother: well, since begin I didn't saw much interest from others on this project
00:14:46gevaertsstripwax: good to know. I still want to look at what the tracer reports for every single target I have available after changing that though
00:14:56stripwaxmakes sense
00:15:01casainhobluebrother: and we did need our SVN, at least I thought it...
00:15:04n1sbluebrother: yes, that's what i guessed. however being _that_ unclear and just ignoring the guidelines...
00:15:30casainhobluebrother: you know, I am always here getting help... I got a lot of help here!!!
00:16:16gevaertsI mean, using the tracer I can see every single individual error. Without it, it's just statistics. If you happen to have enough in a short time, you see problems. If they happen to be spread out, it works fine
00:16:28casainhobluebrother: and I wasn't seeing using the Rockbox mailing list to comunicate beteewn us, for our project
00:17:02linuxstbbluebrother: Are the list of changes under "svn (upcoming release)" fixed?
00:17:11linuxstb(sorry, I meant in RockboxUtility wiki page)
00:17:14 Quit stripwax ("http://miranda-im.org")
00:18:50casainhobluebrother: and there is the guys that bought the development board... since begin I was told from Rockbox developers that the ones that make the Rockbox port are the ones that have, own that hardware.
00:20:41bluebrotherlinuxstb: the items marked with a ! are still present
00:21:14 Quit barrywardell ()
00:21:15linuxstbbluebrother: How about moving them to a "known issues" section?
00:21:43bluebrotherI have a patch around for addressing the osx remount issue though it might not work though.
00:22:02bluebrotherlinuxstb: sounds reasonable to me
00:22:42linuxstbbluebrother: OK, I'll do that.
00:23:04casainhoI can't figure in what file I have problems:: make: *** No rule to make target `/home/cas/Documentos/rockbox_player/rockbox/build_firmware/apps/=======', needed by `/home/cas/Documentos/rockbox_player/rockbox/build_firmware/rockbox.elf'. Stop.
00:23:33gevaertscasainho: I'd guess apps/SOURCES
00:23:42Lloreancasainho: The ones that own the hardware do the work, yes. But they still do it in communication with the group, posting patches as they go (look at the AMS Sansa port) so that others can become involved quickly and easily.
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00:25:04casainhoI tink is my fault, I want the best, but I am not experiencied... I used SVN here for the first time, I used JTAG debug for first time, diff and patches for first time, etc
00:25:21 Quit domonoky (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:25:46casainhoI thought that wrinting information on wiki were good for people follow the project, the idea
00:25:49soapgevaerts: "ipod 5G EDM". EDM=?
00:25:58saratogagevaerts: what should I try?
00:26:04gevaertssoap: sorry, "emergency disk mode"
00:27:22casainhogevaerts: ok, it was apps/SOURCES :-) thanks
00:27:24Lloreancasainho: Patches, early on and all along, are good. Things like adding it to the build system, getting the simulator running, building the bootloader, building the build (even if it doesn't work) etc.
00:27:27bluebrothercasainho: writing documentation to some place is not communicating, it's documenting. But I'll shut up now.
00:27:44LloreanThese allow people to see the code and comment on it (which can help avoid issues like coding style that can result in you needing to rework things later)
00:27:47gevaertssaratoga: http://www.rockbox.org/irc/log-20090315#11:22:38 and FS #10026. Both *may* help. I'd suggest trying without FS #10015 to increase the chances of triggering the problems
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00:28:20gevaertssaratoga: my bet is that if any of them helps, it's FS #10026
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00:29:48casainhoLlorean: well, now I know how to do patches, and I am always put them on our SVN, for other can use them... −− and now someone told me that our patch is big and wee need to start making a first one, simple and short, and thats what we are doing now.
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00:30:36casainhoLlorean: and as I said in forum, I put a patch on tracker, with the help of Domonoky (If I remember correclt)
00:31:15Lloreancasainho: I'm just trying to explain why it seems like there's not much communication to us.
00:31:38linuxstbcasainho: How stable is your hardware design? I mean, is it worth trying to put your code in SVN, or will future designs be completely different (meaning the code is useless...) ?
00:31:55casainhoLlorean: okok. thanks.
00:32:03casainholinuxstb: that's a good question :-)
00:32:48casainholinuxstb: at least MCU AT91SAM9260 should be the same... or at least AT91SAM92xx
00:33:24linuxstbOK, then it would seem sensible to try and commit your changes to support that chip.
00:33:31casainhoLCD, audio DAC, buttons can change, easily, depends on company that will produce
00:33:41 Quit Rondom ("Ex-Chat")
00:34:34casainhobut do you mean that all the code for the all player should not be on Rockbox SVN?
00:35:56 Quit n1s ("Lämnar")
00:36:19linuxstbcasainho: I don't know. If it is just for "temporary" hardware, then maybe not.
00:36:39 Quit ender` (" I will not interrogate my enemies in the inner sanctum -- a small hotel well outside my borders will work just as well. --")
00:37:17casainholinuxstb: the question is that we don't know if is temporay or not, or how many temporary...
00:37:42linuxstbBut I think code to support a new CPU is useful, so maybe the first thing to do would be to try and produce a nice patch to add the CPU-specific code.
00:38:06casainhoI would like to have a company producint it... it can hapen quickly or not... −− maybe we will stick with that hardware long time... doing our own borads ans assembling...
00:38:33casainhosomeone told to make a kernel_init() patch...
00:39:32casainhobut, isn't there code on SVN from unfinished targets?
00:39:41casainhoand imcomplet?
00:39:57linuxstbIncomplete ports, yes - the hardware is finished...
00:40:07gevaertsat least we hope so :)
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00:40:28bluebrothersomeone. Reminds me of MrSomeonesTodoList :P
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00:41:28*gevaerts is in favour of committing, provided the code is clean
00:41:29 Quit |ahmina| (SendQ exceeded)
00:41:31casainhoeheh - but the port can stay for all the time unfinished... and with hardware out of market, production... so, finished hardware and "dead"
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00:42:06linuxstbHardware keeps working for years - it is easy to buy used hardware.
00:42:31 Quit bluebrother ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
00:43:00 Quit lymeca (SendQ exceeded)
00:43:11Lloreancasainho: I can still buy used versions of the unfinished ports to commercial players. If you discard your prototype, there's nowhere for me to purchase one unless I wish to construct my own. I can't order one from somewhere if it's a discarded prototype
00:43:13casainholinuxstb: I don't believe on it... hardware will fade out, not available
00:43:53***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:43:55casainhoLlorean: at least of have the information to make it, not as a comercial
00:43:56linuxstbYes, after many years. But by that time, Rockbox has supported newer targets.
00:44:18linuxstbAnd we've done a pretty good job without documentation for many players...
00:44:19casainhoand so, on that time, what is that code for on SVN?
00:44:21Bagderand we _can_ still rip out old rotting code
00:44:46LloreanI can't imagine there's much of a resale market for used embedded CPUS anyway.
00:44:46Bagdercasainho: no port has reached that state yet
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00:45:10casainhoanyway, I am mainly worried to have all the code and information available on Rockbox SVN...
00:45:12LloreanWhile I can hop on ebay or craigslist and find a Jukebox 6000 still, probably.
00:45:40bubsyso after what I've registered, there's no sound working on the Creative Zen Vision:M port?
00:46:02Bagderbubsy: how is that related to any registration?
00:46:05Lloreanbubsy: It's not supported yet, so it shouldn't be expected to be in a usable state.
00:46:24Bagderand I'm sure you can help it become reality!
00:46:26bubsyBagder: Hencing "to register" as "to notice"
00:46:34Bagderoh
00:46:50*Bagder tries to blame the time or something
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00:47:27bubsyBagder: I wish I could, but I don't have any worthy knowledge on that area :-)
00:47:50Bagderthe creative ports are massively undermanned
00:48:23bubsyYeah, makes me want to hang my head and cry sometimes.
00:48:30Bagdermaurus is about the only one, and he's the "only one" for a range of devices
00:48:45Bagderin fact, he must be nuts! ;-)
00:48:46linuxstbBagder: Would it be possible for someone (you!) to arrange to rsync the logs from the download servers and produce some nice stats?
00:49:22Bagdernot a bad idea, I'll do a check with the mirror guys
00:49:25 Quit flydutch ("/* empty */")
00:49:49Bagderthey're only two these days
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00:53:55linuxstbcasainho: Going back to talking about SVN, I would suggest trying to create small patches that add your code a small part at a time. That makes it easier for other people to review and hence more likely that someone will commit.
00:54:45casainholinuxstb: okok. We are working on it :-)
00:55:01casainhobut that task is with other developer, not me.
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01:00
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01:00:23casainhoso, I did update my version to actual of SVN, but I am getting the same problem:: http://pastebin.com/m31557ad8
01:00:54casainhowhy on here "int spinup = ata_spinup_time();" PC jumps to a variable on BSS section?
01:01:31casainhoata_spinup_time variable...
01:07:08casainhocan't anyone help me? or give some idea?
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01:15:01linuxstbcasainho: Can you post your rockbox.map file?
01:17:26casainhohere: http://pastebin.com/m514dfdca
01:17:38casainhoI were seeing the disassembled file, do you want it?
01:17:45casainhodo you want the patch?
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01:25:27linuxstbcasainho: Have you defined HAVE_FLASH_STORAGE in your config-xxxx.h file?
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01:26:26casainhono... just SD Card, I think −− I will check
01:27:24casainhojust this: #define CONFIG_STORAGE STORAGE_SD
01:27:45casainhois ok, no?? well, at least I could see the files before...
01:28:00linuxstbYou need to #define HAVE_FLASH_STORAGE
01:28:06gevaertswhy do you even have ata_spinup_time() then?
01:28:46casainhoand leave also the #define CONFIG_STORAGE STORAGE_SD ?
01:29:09gevaertsyes
01:30:09casainhook, I will run the code again...
01:35:14casainhook, it's running :-)
01:35:24casainhobut now it says "Codec failure"...
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01:36:26casainhoand also gave a panicf on SD Card functions.... :-) eheh
01:36:29casainhobad code :-)
01:37:43 Quit moos ("good night europe")
01:38:25casainhookok, I tested again with an MP3 file and I got to times saying "Codec failure" and after panic on SD Card... I need to verify the drivers for SD Card :-)
01:38:34casainhoI will go to sllep now :-)
01:38:38casainhothanks for all ;-)
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02:00
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02:00:37robin0800Llorean: perhaps FS10026 problem is also applicable to my Gnome non detection well perhaps 1 in 30 detections?
02:01:41sonar___hows it going everyone, I have a sandisk sansa view, but the second kind of view that was recently released and is based off of the e200 series, not the discontinued one. I was wondering If the e200 firmware would work, or if there were any plans of porting it if not.
02:04:27robin0800gevaerts: could you make a patch for FS10026 so I can test it on my sansa?
02:05:31gevaertsrobin0800: not now, I'm just going to sleep... It looks trivial though
02:05:49saratogasonar___: theres only one view and none of them are based off the e200
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02:06:51sonar___saratoga, mine looks like that http://www.straferight.com/photopost/data/716/SanDiskSansaView.jpg
02:07:15sonar___the discontinued one looks like http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.slipperybrick.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/sandisk-sansa-view-player.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.slipperybrick.com/2007/01/sandisk-sansa-view-video-player/&usg=__yiu3bv3-Lj8F76TK9I8GoAYs1Fo=&h=515&w=500&sz=75&hl=en&start=27&um=1&tbnid=2bNiA8rbOlZKPM:&tbnh=131&tbnw=127&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsan%2Bdisk%2Bsansa%2Bview%26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26clien
02:07:16sonar___t%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN%26start%3D20%26um%3D1 that
02:07:36scorchesonar___: tinyurl.com
02:07:41Lloreansonar___: that second one you linked never actually came out, as far as I know.
02:07:47sonar___err http://www.slipperybrick.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/sandisk-sansa-view-player.jpg
02:08:00LloreanIt wasn't discontinued so much as "a product prototype that never made it to production"
02:08:18sonar___oh really?
02:08:32sonar___so there is only one...
02:08:39linuxstbsonar___: But anyway, being "based off" another DAP means that it's different - hence the e200 firmware won't work.
02:09:18sonar___a lot of the discussions about the sansa view and rockbox seem to be about the first model.
02:09:46Lloreansonar___: Not in the Rockbox forums.
02:10:54saratogaits not even based off, theres no common hardware, except for different models of AMS DACs
02:11:07saratogaits based off in the sense that its based off the iPod
02:11:18saratogai.e. an mp3 player with a screen and a wheel
02:11:24sonar___ok.
02:11:42Lloreansaratoga: I thought the View was the one using the PP/Nvidia chipset anyway?
02:11:58saratogaLlorean: yeah
02:12:32sonar___so do you know if anyone is working on a port? It'd be great if they were, but I'm not really leet enough to help. the user interface on this thing is terrible... so I'm hoping.
02:12:38curseAre there any plans for a release of Rockbox for Ipod Classic?
02:12:45Lloreancurse: Plans are not made.
02:13:17Lloreancurse: It's entirely volunteer work. We can't really know if anyone is still working on it, but so far no progress has been reported to us.
02:13:34Lloreansonar___: So far, nobody's reported significant progress
02:14:27curseI see the point, my question aimed to know if there was any 'reported source contribution' that could bring rockbox near to a release for it.
02:14:41curseApparently, I'll have to stick with my current software.
02:15:12sonar___apparently I'll have to learn c and make it work on the sansa view.
02:17:55sonar___It'd be cool if there were a commercially available mp3 player that utilized open source firmware from the ground up...
02:18:37 Quit dfkt ("-= SysReset 2.53=- Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.")
02:19:44curseI know C, but I'm already in enough projects that are a PITA
02:20:08saratogayou may want to chat on rockbox-community, not the on topic channel
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02:39:48advcomp2019sonar___, yea Llorean was right.. they never released that one.. it was only an idea
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02:43:55***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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03:00
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03:15:06psychohistoryNewb question. Can you use ipod+rockbox with car stereos?
03:16:33linuxstbMaybe - it depends on what the car stereo does...
03:17:11psychohistoryOk let me rephrase. If I'm looking to buy a car stereo that can use rockbox, what should I be looking for?
03:18:08linuxstbI would look for something with a standard audio-in socket - not one that is designed specifically for ipods. You may not always have an ipod...
03:18:57 Quit taylor_ (Remote closed the connection)
03:18:58advcomp2019i would say look for the audio input or one that reads msc mode devices
03:19:46psychohistoryAlright.
03:20:37psychohistorywell I'll see where that takes me, thanks a lot.
03:21:03linuxstbadvcomp2019: A car stereo that reads msc mode devices would be limited to the audio formats it can play itself (and other features). You couldn't take advantage of Rockbox.
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03:21:38psychohistoryohh... yeah, I want to use rockbox so I can play lossless formats...
03:22:19advcomp2019linuxstb, yea but he was not 100% clear on that.. so yea you are right
03:22:37linuxstbadvcomp2019: Well, this is #rockbox ;)
03:23:18psychohistorysorry, should have said. so....
03:25:04psychohistoryfrom linuxstb's statement, I'm assuming the car stereo decodes the music, not the external player?
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03:26:57Lloreanpsychohistory: In the case of ones where they treat the MP3 player as an HD, yes.
03:26:58linuxstbpsychohistory: In msc mode, yes. It will just treat the DAP as a hard disk and access the files directly.
03:27:08LloreanThat's why you shouldn't look for USB connections, but rather just line-out / audio cable connections.
03:27:30psychohistoryohh, gotcha.
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03:29:43psychohistoryok, I think I have an idea now. I'll look for some standard audio-in connection and stay away from "msc mode" stereos.
03:30:34psychohistorythanks for the help.
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03:37:58JdGordonso.... is there any actual interest in my patch which fiddles with how the wps uses its RAM?
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03:43:33LloreanJdGordon: Is it actually useful yet? I haven't kept track.
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03:44:38JdGordonLlorean: depends what you call useful... even the end goal doesnt really change much (from the users perspective)... right now its fubar and might need to be restarted
03:45:06LloreanI thought the end result would be, generally, more RAM available for the WPS without needing to increase the actual RAM used by Rockbox.
03:45:58JdGordonyes
03:47:31LloreanI guess how much this affects users will depend on how inefficient we were before.
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09:38:23robin0800is FS #10026 - E200: Improve USB detection in WinXP applicable to c200's ?
09:42:05LloreanIf there's no comment on the task, then we don't know.
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09:50:19n1sdo people think FS #10018 should go in before the release? I can whip up a batch of bootloaders that this affects for testing tonight if so
09:51:01n1sit is a bugfix for the c200 at least, maybe not high priority
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10:13:26stripwaxrobin0800 - gevaerts was looking at running #10026 on all pp targets iirc to confirm if there's any change/improvement in behaviour for all targets running that code
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10:26:53linuxstbn1s: I think so yes - failure to properly install the main build isn't uncommon, especially as that's a known bug in rbutil (on OSX)
10:27:56n1slinuxstb: ok, e200, c200 and the h10's are the only release targets using the general pp bootloader, right?
10:28:26B4gdermrobe100?
10:28:40linuxstb"release targets"
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10:28:56gevaertsyes :)
10:28:56linuxstbAh, we support that? ;)
10:29:12*linuxstb thinks we have too many targets now...
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10:30:10n1sthen i expect the mrobe to have the same bug as the c200 and that should be fixed by this too
10:30:54Lloreanlinuxstb: We even have an Olympus installation/removal section of the forums.
10:31:13LloreanThree whole people have started threads there.
10:31:36B4gderso all three users started their own threads! ;-P
10:31:55linuxstbB4gder: You can't claim that until we have download mirror stats..... ;)
10:32:13B4gderthat'll only prove that those three users download releases often!
10:32:38linuxstbAnd from randomly different parts of the internet...
10:32:47B4gdersneaky persons!
10:33:18linuxstbThat's assuming there is at least 3 downloads...
10:34:08B4gder100 downloads from build.rockbox.org during March
10:34:19pixelmathat probably doesn't include the at least four developers (I know of)
10:35:04B4gderrecorderv2 13 downloads
10:35:58B4gderondiosp is at 13 too
10:36:07gevaertsThose are probably still all on 2.5
10:37:26B4gderyeah, starting with 3.0 and our new release schedule the look of the build download stats changed as now I think they are more clearly "bleeding edge" people than before
10:37:50B4gdercowond2 164 downloads
10:39:31gevaerts"It doesn't work, but it's more popular than the Archoses combined!" :)
10:40:10B4gder... from the build server
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10:57:29*gevaerts points Llorean to FS #10011
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10:58:24xandra20_hallo
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11:16:19PaulJamhi, is compiling rockbox on cygwin broken again? I'm getting a lot of errors in settings_list.c.
11:19:30B4gderif it is, you're the first to mention it
11:20:52n1sPaulJam: tried the usual make clean and reconfigure, etc? and if you haven't built for a while a semi recent change needs manual cleaning of the build dir
11:21:29PaulJamok, i'll try that
11:24:40PaulJamthank you, deleting the build dir helped.
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11:57:35pondlifeIs it normal for a simulator to have to rebuild dircache on every launch?
11:57:46pondlifeI'd not noticed it in the past
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12:00:02pondlifeHappens every time now though
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12:50:12Casainhohello :-)
12:50:55CasainhoI am getting this message "Codec failure" when I try to play files, on Lyre project. Can someone tell me why it happens? can it be because of bad reading of audio files?
12:51:13CasainhoI tried an OGG and MP3 file, with the same result.
12:51:14B4gderno, it's something wrong with your codec build
12:51:39CasainhoB4gder: ah, because I can clear see the name of files, directories, etc....
12:52:04CasainhoB4gder: so, where can I look, to discover where I have problems on codecs?
12:52:17B4gderfirst make sure you do a full build and install
12:52:26B4gderthen check the codec loader and see why it complains
12:52:55Casainhoa full build is choosing "Normal" and after "make bin", right?
12:53:06B4gderdon't do make bin
12:53:12Casainhoand I am uploading an .elf file, with the JTAG debugger...
12:53:19B4gderrun 'make' 'make zip' and then unzip
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12:53:57B4gderyou can run it however you want, but the codecs must "match" the main binary
12:54:05pondlifeI'm having a compile issue too - having added a new LANG_ to english.lang, I don't get it added to lang.h by a make.
12:54:22B4gder!
12:54:56CasainhoB4gder: so, make bin is for what? it don't build the codecs?
12:55:19pondlifeIs lang.h meant to be rebuilt? I'm sure it used to work...
12:56:00B4gderCasainho: 'make help' is useful
12:56:15B4gderpondlife: it gets generated in the build
12:56:19Casainhookok - thanks :-9
12:56:22Casainhomust go now :-)
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12:56:37pondlifeB4gder: Not here it doesn't ;)
12:56:53B4gderthat sounds like a makefile flaw
12:56:57pondlifeI did a make reconf and make clean, but no new lang.h
12:57:17B4gderdidn't make clean remove it?
12:57:50pondlifelang.h in the build dir?
12:57:58B4gderyes
12:58:08pondlifeNo, it remains after make clean
12:58:18B4gderok, then remove it manually
12:58:28pixelmais it an old one/ when did you last built there?
12:58:43pixelmabuild too
12:59:09pondlifeIt is an old one... I guess it should not be there at all, only in build/lang/lang.h...
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13:00:39pondlifeNope - having deleted it, I now get "make: *** No rule to make target `/home/Steve/rockbox/build/lang.h', needed by `/home/Steve/rockbox/build/apps/action.o'"
13:00:42pixelmathe file got moved semi recently, causing make clean to not remove the old one (only cleaning in the new place)
13:01:15pondlifeThat's what I'm seeing, but something (here) is still looking for the old file, I think.
13:01:19pondlifei.e. in the old location
13:02:34pondlifeJust done a make veryclean, will see if that helps
13:04:18pondlifeYes, looks better now - I just needed to delete the rogue lang.h and make from clean.
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13:36:51LambdaCalculus37Today is supposed to be branching day in preparation for 3.2, right?
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14:51:25kugelfreeze is over? :)
14:51:56gevaertsnot yet
14:53:41robin0800gevaerts: patch for FS10026?
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14:57:30B4gderI ran some errants today at lunch, and my sansa just suddenly died
14:57:35gevaertsrobin0800: is adding the line shown at the place indicated really that hard?
14:57:49B4gderpitch black, had to do the 15 seconds menu-press to shut off for real
14:58:18B4gderbut I must admit it isn't fully up-to-date
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15:00:08kugelB4gder: any idea when you'll do the 3.2 branch?
15:00:18LambdaCalculus37I've noticed now that if I suddely get a data abort on my beast, it'll shut off after a few seconds and allow me to restart it without having to resort to the battery switch.
15:03:03robin0800gevaerts: yes for me unless you can tell me how?
15:04:32kugelrobin0800: grab a text editor, open the file toni mentioned, go to the line toni mentioned and insert. It's easy
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15:05:38robin0800kugel: You sure mine refused to open in a text file?
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15:08:49robin0800kugel: and for c200 possibly not right if the comment there is correct?
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15:13:06kugelB4gder: I take it as a "no"? :)
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15:20:10jaykayif you search the bug tracker for wma, you get 5 results, of which 1 and 3-5 are problems with low-bitrate wma files
15:20:23jaykayi suggest them all except one for closing
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15:33:56robin0800kugel: changed the file used the comment value what do I do now?
15:35:01kugelcompile rockbox?
15:36:34robin0800kugel: Do you mean re-run the script or use make?
15:37:29*pondlife calls all timestretch testers to assemble at http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8894 ;)
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16:30:08kugelshouldn't we create a ReleaseNotes32 page and fill it with infos?
16:32:12B4gderwe should!
16:32:29LambdaCalculus37Who wants to do the honors?
16:32:32*rasher is on it!
16:33:52kugelI was about to create (after searching 5 min how to create a page), but then I decided to ask first ;)
16:37:08*kugel wonders when we'll take rockbox out of the freezer
16:37:20rasherHow do you feel about switching the credits part to "new contributors since 3.1"?
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16:42:23robin0800kugel: no improvement in Gnome detection is the comment for FS 10026 correct?
16:43:35rasherhttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/ReleaseNotes32
16:44:13***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:44:13rasherTime to make Zagor produce a "closed tasks in FS since 3.1" page again
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17:00
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17:04:30Tuplanollahelloes
17:05:16Tuplanollais it possible to modify the statusbar from wps?
17:06:13JdGordon_the statusbar in the menus? no
17:07:27Tuplanollayeah. thanks.
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17:17:20*kugel whistles quickscreen
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17:18:08kugelJdGordon: it is possible, using the quickscreen
17:18:41JdGordonwhat?
17:18:55JdGordonthe only thing you can change is the volume and battery display
17:18:57kugelmodify menu statusbars
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17:19:18kugelmodifying, as in enabling or disabling, of course
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17:19:28rasherYou can't *modify* the statusbar. You can enable or disable it... not really the same.
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17:25:19pondlifeWhich bitmap target has the smallest screen?
17:25:32pondlifeOndio? Or is it one of the remotes?
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17:26:09B4gdersmallest as in physical or pixels?
17:26:17pondlifePixels
17:26:44pondlifeOr - on what target is the pitch screen most cramped..? :)
17:26:59amiconnArchoses
17:28:04PSPdemondoes the simulator require the sdl mixer libs for compiling?
17:28:54kugelPSPdemon: only libsdl, and the developement version
17:29:20PSPdemonthanks
17:29:30kugelPSPdemon: what os are you on?
17:29:36PSPdemonubuntu
17:29:39PSPdemonjust was curious
17:29:54kugelthen, just do "sudo apt-get install libsdl1.2-dev" and you're done
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17:30:01PSPdemonheh
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17:48:11PSPdemonhmm
17:48:34PSPdemoni tried to run doom in the simulator but it says that im missing base wad?
17:49:13*pixelma wonders whether the pictureflow "input" fix will make it into SVN before the release
17:49:55pixelmareminds me that I should try it...
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17:51:07LambdaCalculus37PSPdemon: Did you add rockdoom.wad to .rockbox/doom in the simdisk folder?
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18:00
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18:02:22bertrikhas anyone tried patching OF version 1.1.32 for the sansa clip?
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18:03:02PSPdemonLambdaCalculus37, yes i did
18:03:09PSPdemonand doom + doom2
18:03:23PSPdemon( and a few iwads/pwads for debugging my modifications on )
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18:05:48LambdaCalculus37bertrik: I haven't. Want to be a daring man today? :)
18:06:31kugelpondlife: many problems
18:06:54Unhelpfulpixelma: i'm only looked closely at c200 and ondio keymaps in that, and the beast and e200, since i own those. they may still be broken on other targets.
18:07:04bertrikI won't mind trying it
18:07:09pondlifekugel: I'm about to leave, please list them on Flyspray..
18:07:16kugelok
18:07:24PSPdemon:/
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18:07:31bertrikLambdaCalculus37, would be a waste if someone else already tried it
18:07:38clerk39hi
18:08:02PSPdemon>_<
18:08:16PSPdemonwhy wont it load rockdoom >_<
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18:08:31bertrikLambdaCalculus37, I'll try sometime later this evening and share here what happened
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18:08:57clerk39I just installed rockbox on my ipod video 5.5 - which was fantastically easy with the installer. now I copied music onto it - the ipod loaded the old apple firmware for that - and now ..rockbox won't load anymore - what am I doing wrong?
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18:09:13kugelpondlife: pitchcorrection is nice though ;)
18:09:32LambdaCalculus37bertrik: Okay.
18:09:53clerk39can't find info on the rockbox page either :/
18:10:47clerk39is it documented somewhere maybe?
18:11:48linuxstbclerk39: You need to hold MENU+SELECT to force the Apple firmware to reboot (it normally just sleeps)
18:12:22clerk39thanks
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18:12:56kugelweh
18:13:11kugelthis timestrech is so cool, that needs to go in soon
18:14:28LambdaCalculus37I was wondering about something for the manual. Since some DAPs have system folders (e.g. Gigabeat F/X) hidden by default, some OSes like Mac OS X will not display them by default, unless you enter a complicated command in the Terminal.
18:14:50LambdaCalculus37There's a Dashboard widget, though, that will simply kill and relaunch the Finder with hidden files and folders exposed.
18:15:09LambdaCalculus37Would anyone have any objections if I were to add a link to this Widget in the manual?
18:15:53kugelUnhelpful: ping
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18:18:04linuxstbLambdaCalculus37: "ls -al" is complicated? Where in the manual would you put that info though?
18:19:19LambdaCalculus37linuxstb: There are people that don't know the Terminal whatsoever. And an example of where to put it would be here: http://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-gigabeatf/rockbox-buildch2.html#x4-110002.2.2
18:22:04Unhelpfulkugel: can't chat, but i can get back to you later
18:28:00PSPdemonLambdaCalculus, i copied my doom folder from my sansa to the same placement as the simdisk
18:28:17PSPdemon( or rather same directory structure )
18:28:20PSPdemonstill no go :/
18:30:36kugelUnhelpful: I didn't want to chat, I just wanted to suggest closing http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9726 as fixed
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18:32:11rasherOkay, I have iTunes seeing the main memory of my e280 now. And things more or less work. A few things: 1) Once in a while a second ipod shows up, which iTunes think is corrupted. 2) I can't copy/sync AAC files - I'm told my iPod doesn't support it. Though that might be my fault.
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18:33:00rasherThe first point doesn't actually cause any harm. It's just a bit weird.
18:34:27dionoeaWhat's the point of faking an iPod btw? Wouldn't you need the iTunesDB on the device too?
18:34:51rasherdionoea: The point, I guess, is to use iTunes for syncing.
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18:35:19dionoeabut won't that do it the iPod way? ie with the DB and random filenames
18:35:19linuxstbDidn't someone also say that their xbox 360 no longer recognises their ipod?
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18:35:26rasherdionoea: Yes.
18:35:48rasherdionoea: but if you use the Rockbox database, that won't really matter anyway
18:35:56dionoeafair enough
18:36:21evilnicklinuxstb: Yes, on the mailing list
18:38:24rasherdionoea: This would basically be useful for people who want much of the same usage pattern as on an ipod.
18:39:42dionoeaOk. I guess that iTunes can't sync to non Apple devices ... that's bad :)
18:40:07rasherdionoea: Not unless they act like an Ipod!
18:40:13dionoeahehe :)
18:40:33rasherBut yeah, it's a bit odd considering that many players would play music bought in the ITMS
18:40:38dionoeaYou'll just need to add embeded album art support and you'll be able to fake the iPod OF on a rockboxed iPod
18:40:45dionoeaultimate usefulness
18:43:02rasherWell the album art is stored separately also
18:44:16***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:45:15kugeldionoea: because we can! :)
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18:48:58PSPdemon:/
18:49:11PSPdemoni need help with the simulator
18:49:44Ubuntuxershort question; "TOUCHSCREEN_POINT" is the only button on Touchsreen, isn't it?
18:50:01PSPdemoni have compiled the simulator no problems....and the simulator runs
18:50:28PSPdemonbut i cant get doom to work...and when i load the simulator and browse the "files" section it has nothing there
18:50:44PSPdemoneven though that simdisk has .rockbox in it
18:51:10linuxstbThe Rockbox file browser doesn't show hidden files by default (files starting with "." are considered hidden)
18:51:32linuxstbYou need to change the "show files" option to "all". But what error does Doom give when you run it?
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18:52:20LambdaCalculus37linuxstb: My Xbox 360 doesn't recognize any of my iPods in Rockbox USB mode.
18:52:24PSPdemonthat it cant find base wad
18:52:45LambdaCalculus37Strangely, my Archos, H340, and Gigabeat F work.
18:52:46linuxstbAnd have you put the wad in the right place?
18:52:53PSPdemonyea
18:53:12PSPdemonand have doom/doom2 plus a few addon wads
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18:55:00PSPdemonokay i now see the .rockbox directory
18:55:16PSPdemonthanks for telling me about the "show all" option
18:55:30PSPdemonbut even so it says it still cant find the base wad :/
18:57:00linuxstbPSPdemon: The files are in /.rockbox/doom/ ?
18:57:19linuxstbYou need rockdoom.wad, but the game wad
18:57:58PSPdemonyes
18:58:06PSPdemondoom.wad and doom2.wad are there as well
18:58:09rashergevaerts: Making sure the SD slot doesn't identify as "iPod" helps as well...
18:58:59PSPdemon.rockbox/doom/rockdoom.wad
18:59:04PSPdemon.rockbox/doom/Doom.wad
18:59:09PSPdemon.rockbox/doom/DOOM2.wad
19:00
19:01:17PSPdemonagain..i just copied it out of my sansa with the same filestructure into the simulator
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19:04:55linuxstbPSPdemon: Are you on Linux?
19:05:09PSPdemonlinuxstb, yes
19:05:31linuxstbTry renaming to lower-case - i.e. doom.wad or doom2.wad
19:05:43linuxstb(I don't know if the sim simulates case-insensitivity...)
19:05:45PSPdemonk
19:06:13rasherlinuxstb: I doubt it
19:09:30PSPdemonworked
19:09:30PSPdemonlol
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19:13:32PSPdemonlinuxstb, works now thanks :D
19:16:19*n1s wants testers for FS #10018, anyone with e200 h10(big or small) or mrobe 100 around?
19:16:38PSPdemone2 here
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19:17:31n1sPSPdemon: do you want to test the patch?
19:18:18*PSPdemon checks what FS #10018 is
19:18:49PSPdemonohhh
19:18:55PSPdemoni was looking at that acually
19:19:56PSPdemonkinda busy though...need to finish a few things before i can test
19:20:43rashern1s: is 5 seconds enough?
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19:21:19PSPdemoninteresting...
19:21:26PSPdemonanyway thanks for the rockdoom help
19:21:48n1srasher: dunno, it's easy to extend
19:21:51PSPdemonitll help me fix up these errors easier now that i can read what ones are causing the errors :P
19:22:51pondlifekugel: I'm back, for a short while... what were your problems?
19:23:15n1srasher: do you think it should be longer?
19:23:54kugelpondlife: data aborts sometimes, pressing select in pitch view resets speed too, sim (64bit) segfaults entirely
19:24:15pondlifeSelect is meant to reset speed
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19:24:49pondlifeFor the other issues, please can you check which .patch file they started with?
19:24:54kugelif you set speed, then you go into pitch view, select resets the speed too.
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19:25:11pondlifeYes, that's intentional.
19:25:19kugelwhy?
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19:25:37pondlifeSelect just means "reset normal pitch and speed"
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19:25:47kugelI think it should depend on in which view you are
19:26:13pondlifeI don't want to distinguish the modes any more than we need to, so I disagree, I think..
19:26:21pondlifeBut, it's not a biggie
19:26:33kugelyea, but the other problems are
19:26:38pondlifeIndeed
19:26:39kugelI don't really understand them, though
19:26:50kugelgdb shows segfaults in buffering.c
19:27:16kugelline 363, specifically
19:27:37pondlifeSorry, I don't have source ATM
19:27:57kugelalso, looking at td speed, I'm far from understanding all the different data types, it seems to use int, int32_t, long long rather randomly
19:28:22pondlifeI've not got into that much
19:28:35kugelI suspected long long could be a problem on 64bit, but changing it didn't really help
19:28:38pondlifeCould you see if the older patches work better?
19:28:47kugelsure
19:29:03pondlife_090305 was ok, I think.
19:29:19kugelbtw, for special factors, speeding up sounds very nice
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19:30:05kugelvery nice compared to the non-special factors, of course. It cannot exactly match the normal speed quality but it's not too far away
19:30:43pondlifeIf you use pitch up/down in the timescale mode, it attempts to keep the speed constant. Works on my sim, but not tried it elsewhere - do you know if that worked?
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19:31:18pondlifeI assume that speed * pitch should be constant, but no idea if they're accurate enough.
19:32:22kugelyea, that worked quite good on the sansa
19:32:51kugela minor issue though is, that pitch is applied instantly, but speed not (so it won't be balanced out until you stop changing the values)
19:33:00pondlifeIndeed
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19:33:51pondlifeNot sure if low latency mode could help - would probably just cause dropouts
19:33:52kugel_090305 is bad too
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19:34:18pondlifePhew! ;)
19:34:39kugelphew? it just segfaults
19:34:54pondlifeThat means my recent work didn't break it..
19:35:11pondlifeI'm more interested in the data aborts
19:35:17*bertrik prepares to write a sansa clip bootloader based on OF version 1.1.32
19:35:33pondlifeThe 64-bit sim issue is probably on all versions
19:36:17kugeleh, I think I see the long long things. It tries to do 32x32=64 bit math (not sure if that works)
19:37:37kugelbertrik: is that version special? for earlier versions it was just a matter of adding the md5 to mkamsboot
19:38:13bertrikno, it's not special and it doesn't seem necessary to add the md5 to mkamsboot
19:38:38kugelwho's "it"?
19:38:42bertrikit's just that nobody has tried it yet so far, as far as I know
19:39:02kugelah, I understand
19:39:28kugelthe md5 is for identifying the version, and I think mkamsboot fails if the version cannot be identified
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19:40:26pbxyit reads the model from the header if the md5 is unknown
19:41:17bertrikmkamsboot does identify it as Clip
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19:43:38bertrikyay, it worked
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19:51:41bertrikok, since it works, I'm adding the md5 to mkamsboot
19:51:48LambdaCalculus37bertrik: \o/
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20:00
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20:10:47PSPdemonso wait....what does it mean when you say that mkamsboot identifies the clip?
20:12:20PSPdemoni guess that means the clip is able to boot?
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20:16:49bertrikPSPdemon, yes, mkamsboot correctly identified the new 1.1.32 original firmware file as a clip firmware and successfully patched it. I verified that it can still boot the OF and rockbox with it.
20:17:06PSPdemonahhh
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20:33:30casainhohello :-)
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20:33:49casainhowhile trying build with "make zip", I get the following error: cat: /home/cas/Documentos/rockbox_player/rockbox/build_firmware/apps/features: No such file or directory
20:34:28casainhoit buils ok if I do "make bin"
20:34:38casainhowhat I am doing incorrectly?
20:35:15Bagdermake zip and make bin are completely different
20:35:33Bagderrun 'make V=1 zip' to see the full commands that fail
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20:36:06Bagderit sounds like the features.txt processing somehow has problems
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20:37:19casainhoover here: http://pastebin.com/m39359998
20:39:04Bagderdo a make clean and make V=1, then check the command that creates the features file
20:40:17Bagderoh, did you do make bin first and then make zip?
20:41:25casainhohttp://pastebin.com/m279ca622
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20:42:13Geno_quick question
20:42:36Geno_does any build work on the classic yet?
20:42:36Bagdercasainho: ?
20:42:49evilnickGeno_: No.
20:42:49BagderGeno_: no, and it's not likely to do anytime soon
20:43:01casainhoBagder: sorry, I was on phone. No, I just did "make zip"
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20:43:43Geno_are there any other firmwares that would work on the classic?
20:43:57LearYou can't build a zip without a normal build first.
20:43:58LambdaCalculus37None.
20:44:05evilnickGeno_: Not to my knowledge and they would be offtopic for Rockbox anyway.
20:44:17***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:44:41Geno_i suppose i just need to stick with ds/wii/computer emus then
20:44:43Geno_ah well
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20:50:13 Join LinusN [0] (n=linus@rockbox/developer/LinusN)
20:53:22Bagderhey LinusN, you probably missed adding the path for the mipsel compiler in your acbuild.pl for rbclient
20:53:34LinusNoops
20:53:41casainhoI am getting a message on LCD: "Codec failure"... does anyone knows why?
20:53:53BagderI remembered that now, I disabled that on your host the other day
20:54:00Bagdercasainho: still the reason I said before
20:54:02casainhoBagder: I was trying do make zip for avoid that error
20:54:15Bagdercasainho: and you did a full 'make' first?
20:54:31Bagderand then you load _that_ rockbox image to your target?
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20:54:41JdGordon|wBagder: when i get home this arvo ill fix up mips on my desktop and make jdgorond.info actually point to it again...
20:54:42LinusNBagder: fixed
20:55:00BagderJdGordon: nice, just tell me when it's there!
20:55:04BagderLinusN: goodie
20:55:26casainhoBagder: I am doing first "make zip" and after using the rockbox.elf file for debug/run the firmware...
20:56:03Bagdercasainho: and for the _third_ time, do you run 'make' first and NOT make bin?
20:56:46Bagderand the .elf _that_ make produces is what you must use
20:56:47casainhoeheh, no, jsut make bin... well, then I will do it again... I don't know why, but i did it always like this :-)
20:56:57 Quit LambdaCalculus37 ("CGI:IRC 0.5.9 (2006/06/06)")
20:57:13rashercasainho: you should never run make bin.
20:57:19n1scasainho: your rockbox.elf needs to load a codec from somewhere, codecs are not built with "make bin"
20:59:37n1sso, no testers for FS #10018? come on people it'll be fun ;)
21:00
21:00:14gevaertsn1s: maybe later tonight. Right now I'm testing FS #10015 and FS #10026 :)
21:01:16n1sgevaerts: yay \o/
21:01:20casainhookok - thanks. I am doing "make" now and I will run/debug the code again :-)
21:01:31 Quit faemir ("Lost terminal")
21:01:36 Part LinusN
21:02:09gevaertsDoes anyone have any suggestions about why the rockbox USB stack behaves differently (more errors) with an "old" filesystem than with a freshly mkfs-ed one, if I'm dd-ing the full disk?
21:02:58*gevaerts *really* can't understand that
21:04:40n1sis the "old" one very fragmented, full or broken in some way?
21:04:45jaykayn1s: should i test FS #10018?
21:04:54LloreanI was about to say, could fragmenting mean more seeks and thus cause problems somehow?
21:05:09rasherdd-ing the full disk should make such things irrelevant, surely?
21:05:11gevaertsn1s: that's the point, I'm not accessing the filesystem in any way, just the underlying device
21:05:14n1sjaykay: which player do you have?
21:05:20jaykayn1s: e200....
21:05:27n1sgevaerts: ah
21:05:41n1sjaykay: yes, testing on e200 would be good
21:05:57gevaertsI think I used sansa.fmt both times though, not mkfs.vfat, but would that make a difference?
21:06:06n1sjaykay: can you build a patched version yourself?
21:06:20 Join guest001 [0] (n=someone@32-121.107-92.cust.bluewin.ch)
21:06:41jaykayn1s: yes
21:06:59n1sok, great
21:07:02amiconnSomething is broken either in the db or in pf on the beast
21:08:03amiconnI have two albums where cover.bmp exists, but pf refuses to show it, showing '?' instead. I've double checked the file, rebuilt the db and the pf cache - still nothing
21:08:09n1sjaykay: the new thing it does is print a message on the display about not finding a rockbox.mi4 and booting the OF instead of powering off it the rockbox.mi4 is not found everything else should be as before
21:11:29amiconnIt works on other DAPs
21:12:51BigBambiDoes anybody think I shouldn't move custom filetype colours into the manual (and leave it in the wiki) before I start doing it?
21:13:13LloreanBigBambi: If it still works, it should be documented in the manual.
21:13:23LloreanI'm not *entirely* sure all the problems ever got fixed.
21:13:33BigBambiLlorean: Ah, which problems?
21:14:08BigBambiI haven't tried it in an age - I just noticed that there is currently a one liner on the manual pointing at the wiki page
21:14:22LloreanBigBambi: Do you happen to remember the wiki page?
21:14:26n1sBigBambi: i think it belongs as an "Advanced topic" thing
21:14:32LloreanI seem to vaguely recall problems, maybe if I saw the syntax again I'd remember.
21:14:41BigBambiLlorean: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/CustomFiletypeColours
21:14:54 Quit BUMBACL0T (Connection timed out)
21:15:04BigBambin1s: Yes, I would just replace the current place holder with actual instructions
21:15:38jaykayn1s: it didnt work, it said "...not found" and shut down
21:15:42n1snice, didn't know we had a placeholder
21:15:46jaykayn1s: im trying to read it now...
21:16:12jaykayn1s: cant load rockbox.mi4: file not found
21:16:23jaykaycant load rockbox.e200: file not found
21:16:29jaykaythen shutdown
21:16:45LloreanBigBambi: Hm. I seem to recall problems relating to colors being attached to things they shouldn't be (if you coloured an MP3 it got all audio files, or all other audio files got the ??? or something) but I'm not really sure.
21:16:54casainhoI did a make clean and after make, but I continue with the same problem, the message "Codec failure" when playing a file...
21:16:58LloreanIt was something relating to colors being passed on to other things.
21:17:00gevaertsjaykay: sansapatcher didn't give errors?
21:17:07rasherjaykay: doesn't sound like you properly installed it
21:17:28LloreanBigBambi: I'm kinda amazed our text-editor handles colours files. That seems like it should be a separate plugin. Our text editor doesn't give special treatment to any other filetypes does it?
21:17:32BigBambiLlorean: I'll try it out
21:17:40jaykayrasher: gevaerts: i only changed rockbox.mi4 to rockbox2.mi4
21:17:46jaykaybefore this rockbox worked
21:17:55BigBambiLlorean: Not that I'm aware of, and I didn't know it did here until I just read that page
21:17:59gevaertswell yes, but this is a bootloader patch...
21:18:10LloreanBigBambi: I mean, that's _really_ nice, but also kinda _really_ wrong in my book.
21:18:29casainhoBagder: do you have any idea?
21:19:34jaykaygevaerts: should i select bootloader in tools/configure?
21:19:44gevaertsyes
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21:21:32jaykaygeaerts: and what should i do next?
21:22:11jaykaysorry, gevaerts
21:22:18rasherinstall it with sansapatcher
21:23:00rasherUsing some command-switch
21:23:22linuxstb-a i think
21:24:09*jaykay is totally confused
21:24:12jaykaywhere -a?
21:24:36casainhoit says on LCD "Codec failure" and jumps over music one to music 2, and again to one, and 2...
21:24:51 Quit nibbler ("Ex-Chat")
21:24:56gevaertscasainho: do you actually have the codecs installed?
21:25:30linuxstbjaykay: Type "sansapatcher -a pp5022.mi4" (or whatever your new bootloader is called)
21:26:07casainhogevaerts: how do I know that I have or not the codecs installed? −− I just did checkout of SVN code, apply my patch and made "make"
21:26:37linuxstbcasainho: Does your device have a ".rockbox" folder, with a "codecs" folder inside there, containing lots of "*.codec" files?
21:27:11BigBambiLlorean: It doesn't seem to work at all here (on beast)
21:27:35BigBambiLlorean: The special text editor mode works, but when I select the cfg no colours change
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21:27:38LloreanBigBambi: I blame viewports.
21:27:51LloreanI bet with viewports assigning text colors now, the patch doesn't work the same way
21:28:01casainholinuxstb: I don't know :- ) −− will check it :-)
21:28:11*Llorean is just making random assumptions in this case.
21:28:25LloreanIt's been forever since anyone's used that feature, I'm sure. I used to love it, but lost my colors file and never rebuilt one.
21:28:33BigBambiLlorean: yeah, could be. It says settings loaded and all but bog all happens
21:28:51BigBambiLlorean: I was the same - I loved it, lot it and forgot
21:29:00jaykayn1s: it works
21:29:03BigBambi*lot
21:29:08BigBambidammit - *lost
21:29:24LloreanBigBambi: A separate color editor that listed all the extensions in filetypes.c would make it a lot more usable in general (more saying this to the "air" than you)
21:29:32LloreanVKeyboard = "nobody will use it"
21:29:39jaykayn1s: but i noticed that it took some time from "file not found" to "loading original firmware"
21:29:43BigBambiLlorean: Yes, I agree
21:30:21r4v5rockboxdev.sh seems to choke when installing multiple toolchains at once because of the creation of summary-$1 in the /tmp/rbdev-build directory. Would the better fix be to create those summary files in a different directory or to not check for the nonexistence of /tmp/rbdev-build between runs?
21:30:44Lloreancasainho: A typical installation of a rockbox build is done by "make" then "make zip" then extracting the zip to the storage of your player, so that the bootloader can load the zip from the storage. Is that how your build of Rockbox is installed (and loaded)?
21:30:52BigBambir4v5: i.e. running multiple instances simulataneously?
21:31:03r4v5No, just choosing s m a i
21:31:19BigBambir4v5: Hmmm, that worked fine last time I tried it
21:31:33BigBambiLlorean: loading the binary :)
21:31:49amiconnHmm, PF has a kinda funny bug: If you add albums but don't rebuild the cache, the pictures no longer match the albums, they're shifted...
21:31:50 Join jhMikeS [50] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS)
21:31:54BigBambior build maybe :)
21:31:56LloreanBigBambi: Binary, right.
21:32:06r4v5okay. I'm using an svn co from a few hours ago and it definitely bails after each toolchain.
21:32:29casainhoLlorean: no. I am putting .rockbox folder on SD Card (did this just one time) and after I am loading the rockbox.elf file witth JTAG and debug/run it...
21:32:35Lloreanr4v5: What environment are you trying it in?
21:32:48Bagderr4v5: that summary thing was modified recently, perhaps it bugs
21:33:03*Bagder looks for kugel
21:33:48r4v5Llorean: this is ubuntu, running with a root shell, GNU bash, version 3.2.39(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
21:34:30BigBambiLlorean: er, I take it back - me stupid
21:34:44LloreanBigBambi: They work, or something else?
21:34:49BigBambiLlorean: It turns out that the .colours file has to be in .rockbox/themes
21:34:56Bagderr4v5: cut out that entire summary thing for now to make it run
21:34:59BigBambiI had it in .rockbox
21:35:00linuxstbcasainho: Does your SD driver work?
21:35:05BigBambiWhen in the themes subdir, it works
21:35:08LloreanBigBambi: I don't remember that being a requirement previously.
21:35:21Lloreanlinuxstb: He can browse to the file to attempt to play it, at least.
21:35:23casainholinuxstb: more or less ;-) −− most part of times.
21:35:30BigBambiLlorean: I didn't expect it - I thought it was in there on the wiki page just as an example
21:35:38linuxstbcasainho: Then that may be your problem... "more or less" isn't good enough ;)
21:35:54LloreanBigBambi: I guess that makes sense, though. Enforced cleanliness. heh.
21:36:14BigBambiI'll make it more clear that it has to be there
21:36:56BigBambiLlorean: It seems OK too - e.g. my MP3s have changed but my oggs haven't
21:36:58casainholinuxstb: sometines I got a panicf...
21:37:09BigBambi(as per my quick try)
21:37:27linuxstbcasainho: Have you done any tests to see if it is reading data correctly?
21:38:15casainholinuxstb: yes, I did. I am using the CRC32 to check it −− Domonoky did help a lot on that time :-)
21:38:21r4v5Bagder: I'm just installing them one at a time and nuking the rbdev-build dir each time, same process. seems like lines 244 to 254 should be moved out of buildone(), if the build dir is reused
21:38:59 Quit jhMikeS (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
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21:40:01Learcasainho: A logf-enabled build might give some clues as to why the codec fails.
21:41:07domonokyalso make sure the codecs on the sd-card are new enough.. (there is a version check)
21:41:59 Join jhMikeS [50] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS)
21:43:54casainhoLear: thanks.
21:44:27casainhodomonoky: for example, I need to put the codecs on SD card everytime?
21:45:17 Join jordoex [0] (n=quassel@d142-058-094-228.wireless.sfu.ca)
21:45:45domonokynot everytime, but if there are changes in the codec api in rockbox, or if you change linkage options, (maybe more)
21:45:58n1sjaykay: great, thanks for testing. The delay is intentional to let people read the message on the display
21:46:04domonokyand ofcourse, if you get problems, you should try a complete fresh install :-)
21:46:14Lloreancasainho: To be safe, especially while developing, you should always make sure all files come from the same build to avoid extra errors.
21:46:33jaykayn1s: how about a blank line between failing and loading?
21:46:52 Quit bertrik ("Leaving")
21:47:23 Quit guest001 ()
21:47:40casainhookok... I am getting now some more problems. At least the "Codec failure" do not happens any more :-)
21:49:16n1sjaykay, might be nice
21:49:38n1shmm, maybe the display should be cleared entirely first
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21:53:52jaykayn1s: how about this: before "could not load" a blank line so that everyone reads it, a delay, than cleaning the screen and then loading original....
21:54:38n1swhy clear it after displaying the message?
21:57:16jaykay[21:49]<n1s>hmm, maybe the display should be cleared entirely first
21:57:21jaykayyou said it
21:57:46jaykayto make sure everyone reads "could not load" and "loading original..."
21:58:03n1sjaykay: try adding reset_screen(); after line 552 in bootloader/main-pp.c and see what you think
21:58:04jaykayor make these two messages red :)
21:58:30n1sjaykay: sorry i misread your message
21:58:53 Join EvanCarroll [0] (n=ecarroll@12.28.61.169)
21:58:56EvanCarroll Unfortunately, RockBox is not something we support as we feel we are providing everything that our customers need.
21:59:00EvanCarrollper Greg at rockbox
21:59:04EvanCarrollerr
21:59:05EvanCarrollSansa
21:59:20n1si like clearing the earlier messages before printing "Could not find ..." more than a blank line though
22:00
22:00:33LloreanEvanCarroll: is there a question?
22:01:50EvanCarrollno, I wrote an email to sansa, and in essense that was his response
22:02:22rasherTrmarkable
22:02:28 Quit jhMikeS (Nick collision from services.)
22:02:29rasherRemarkable
22:02:34 Join jhMikeS [50] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS)
22:02:41LloreanI'm not sure I understand the context then. We don't depend on Sandisk's support or anything here.
22:02:54linuxstbEvanCarroll: What were you asking Sandisk?
22:03:51EvanCarrollfor support or sponsorship to develop a port for the AMS and/or View
22:04:38*gevaerts thinks that the fact thay they bothered to answer is very encouraging
22:05:24jaykayn1s: it's better now, because the whole uninteresting crap before "cant load..."is not shown (well maybe for a fraction of a second)
22:05:31*Llorean remembers the lack of answers he got from PortalPlayer both pre and post-Nvidia.
22:05:42EvanCarrollGalois: he actually wrote a long answer and his phone number is in the sig
22:05:55jaykayn1s: i suggest to remove the uninteresting crap after this as well :)
22:06:14linuxstbLlorean: No reply from the USB people I assume?
22:06:14EvanCarrollhttp://rafb.net/p/ve3D3t75.html
22:06:24EvanCarrollI think we would get the port if we had advocacy that didn't suck
22:06:49Lloreanlinuxstb: Nothing.
22:07:09EvanCarrollI mean, it isn't like sansa has the legroom to not-grow their market share. Walmart has fully pulled all third party accessories at every location i've been too, and i don't think the Fuse was the ipod competitor they wanted it to be.
22:07:09Lloreanlinuxstb: That one seems rather baffling, since they're inviting exactly the sort of inquiry I made.
22:07:25LloreanEvanCarroll: What do you mean "get the port"?
22:07:35linuxstbEvanCarroll: The port just needs people to actually work on it...
22:07:57LloreanNothing is really "needed" from Sandisk. What we need is more people doing the work.
22:08:10n1sjaykay: hmm, maybe, that mi4 loading function outputs a lot of text but it might be nice tellign the user that it's loading the OF but otoh that's pretty obvious after a while...
22:08:26EvanCarrollLlorean: as in them bestowing the assitance needed to get it supported up to the level of the offical ports, fixing the bug with the 1gb cap on 2gb+ models, and the scroll wheel
22:08:41 Part The-Compiler
22:08:41LloreanEvanCarroll: Again, that's just an issue of "people need to do the work"
22:09:02LloreanEvanCarroll: NONE of the Rockbox ports have had assistance from the manufacturers beyond maybe a hardware donation or two.
22:09:21EvanCarrollthe original e200 was supported by the manufacturer iirc
22:09:23jaykayn1s: i have basically the opinion that for a normal user only understandable things should be shown, the rest only for debug-whatever
22:09:34jaykayn1s: but its obvious, of course
22:09:35linuxstbEvanCarroll: Not really. They donated two players.
22:09:36rasherEvanCarroll: Not really.
22:09:38LloreanEvanCarroll: You recall incorrectly, or were misinformed. They gave us a few pieces of hardware.
22:10:02linuxstbIIUC, it was just someone in their marketing department - they never provided any technical help.
22:10:09Lloreanjaykay: Often we need to ask people the debug information, it's easier if it's shown rather than requiring them to time presses or something.
22:10:18jaykayok
22:10:34EvanCarrollI don't see the harm in asking them to fund a port through a bounty or to fix the problems that would create an incentive to purchase their player.
22:10:59rasherEvanCarroll: it'll never happen.
22:11:04LloreanEvanCarroll: No harm in it, but it's somewhat unrealistic to expect them to spend money on it.
22:11:13 Quit Chex ("Lost terminal")
22:11:19EvanCarrollI'm not a rockbox developer, but i bought a sansa model because my last one work with rockbox and I was happy, my current one doesn't, and I'm not happy, nor would i buy another one −− that's all I was aiming to tell them.
22:11:23EvanCarrollAnd they responded.
22:11:38EvanCarrollLlorean: why would you say that, their resellers sell on Rockbox.
22:11:45LloreanEvanCarroll: Basically, it probably goes something like this. 1) We start supporting a player. 2) People use our tools to mess up players. 3) Those people try to get warranty replacements. 4) We get blamed for increased support costs.
22:11:46n1sLlorean: the pp bootloader doesn't print any text unless it encounters an error or a button is pressed
22:11:59BigBambiCould somebody have a quick look at http://pastebin.com/m1285bd85 - it jut corrects the spelling in the special part of text_editor that deals with filetype colours. It is tiny but I'm not well versed in these things so want to make sure
22:11:59Lloreann1s: Yes, so if it encounters that error, it should display all relevant text.
22:12:49jaykayn1s: i guess including that i cleared out
22:12:54EvanCarrollLlorean: The same arguement could be made of all things with unofficial linux ports, but yet companies do come around.
22:13:02EvanCarrollLook at Buffalo, which now sells a router with a linux port.
22:13:14LloreanBigBambi: A one-character change is hard to mess up
22:13:18n1sLlorean: "file not found" is all the relevant text to the file not found error, it's just that i turned on the "verbose" mode to get any text out at all and it displays a lot of stuff when loading the OF too, not that it matters much
22:13:25EvanCarrollAnd Linksys, which sells a whole line of Linux capable routers with more ram.
22:13:37 Quit evilnick ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
22:13:47LloreanEvanCarroll: Routers is a different industry entirely.
22:13:52BigBambiLlorean: I know, I'm just a little paranoid
22:14:06EvanCarrollI'd say froobi selling Sansa w/ coupon code "Rockbox" is definitly a sign that someone realizes their is money in the market share
22:14:12BigBambiLlorean: And I guess this counts as a bug fix so can go in?
22:14:24Lloreann1s: Ah, well does it reboot to the OF in the case of bad binaries (wrong ones) too?
22:14:32LloreanLike finding a .ipod for the wrong model, or with a bad CRC?
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22:14:49LloreanEvanCarroll: Froobi doesn't provide end-user support. They aren't shouldering an added risk.
22:15:50LloreanPeople don't even log into routers unless they're moderately technical. Rockbox on the other hand can be installed by a monkey that gets lucky enough with the mouse. We've got to be somewhat frightening to people who see us as a significant possible added cost.
22:16:18LloreanIn fact most routers come with a basic password on them so that you *have* to read at least some of the manual before you can even try to upgrade their firmware.
22:16:26*domonoky would find it very nice if some manufacturers would support rockbox, but it probably wont happen..
22:16:36LloreanI'd love it if we were supported/helped.
22:16:37EvanCarrollthe monkeys with a mouse, that return their sansa, are doing so because they lost 7gb of storage and a mousewheel, both of these are technical problems that sansa could overcome, or pay to overcome.
22:16:40n1sLlorean: actually it prints "Can't load rockbox.mi4" since this case covers all cases where the loading failed, which is either the file is not found or is broken or wrong. And yes, it shoudl start the OF if the file is not valid
22:17:12LloreanEvanCarroll: That's entirely incorrect. I'm not talking about AMS sansas in terms of returns. I'm talking about supported targets.
22:17:13EvanCarrollLlorean: maybe i should create a few advocacy pages on the wiki
22:17:51Lloreann1s: It needs to show the CRC and target string then, if it's a bad file. So we can know if the CRC check was the problem, or if it's an IP4G on an IPCO or whatever the strings are
22:17:59n1salso this patch does not touch anything in the ipod bootloader just the other pp-one
22:18:08EvanCarrollLlorean: oh? So you believe the dual-booting linux firmware for the e200 that runs almost wholey without flaws makes a for a net-loss on Sansa
22:18:18Lloreann1s: The keypress wait needs to be in a location where that stuff is still visible, no clear.
22:18:29BigBambiEvanCarroll: What linux firmware?
22:18:41EvanCarrollrockbox
22:18:45EvanCarrollrather
22:18:47*domonoky would like to ask a sandisk ams-developer a few things.. :-) *why did they connect the scrollwheel this way?*
22:19:01BigBambiEvanCarroll: Rockbox is in no way whatsoever based on linux
22:19:18EvanCarrollBigBambi: my typo, thinking about the router again
22:19:42EvanCarrollI'm just saying that I honestly think you'd be smoking the crazy pipe to conclude rockbox causes more damage in support than sales.
22:19:43LloreanEvanCarroll: Considering how many people I've seen openly admit to being willing to lie to Sandisk about things after using sansapatcher or some other tool to brick their Sansa by not following directions, I don't know if it's a net loss, but I DO know it changes their profit/loss from what they expected.
22:20:03LloreanI'm saying *they* probably think it causes more damage than increased sales.
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22:20:26n1sLlorean: on the c200 if all the output is preserved a lot of text is printed an some lines are overwritten and it's generally very hard to find the relevant message imo
22:20:47rasherI just don't think they want to get into the software business. The see each unit sold as basically a finished item
22:20:54Lloreann1s: So clear, then reprint only the necessary lines. Getting rid of all of them is bad.
22:21:16Lloreanrasher: And what if *we* do something that causes say, 40,000 users to have bricked units?
22:21:19domonokycompanies are normally very sceptically about such open-source things. But it would probably not hurt if someone asks them a few specific things. Maybe we are lucky :-)
22:21:27LloreanThey have no control over us, and we could (conceivably) screw up massively.
22:22:21LloreanIf they get involved with us, someone sue-happy somewhere like the US could try to start a class action or something. It's probably best for them, in an overall liability sense, to be "not involved at all" rather than "helping but take no responsibility for"
22:23:47domonokyit probably very unlikly they "cooperate" officially with us.. but maybe they can helpout with some advices a litte.. :-) *maybe some one knows a engineer there, and spends a few beers* :-)
22:24:25linuxstbSomeone needs to find out where the Sansa engineers drink...
22:24:26gevaertsdomonoky: you mean you want the advice of a drunk engineer? ;)
22:24:37linuxstbgevaerts: Ask them first, then buy beer...
22:24:54domonokyyes ! if they are drunk, they tell more as allowed :-)
22:25:08EvanCarrollI simply disagree, with the conclusion that it is a) better for them to stay out of it, and b) useless for people to demand it
22:25:19 Quit bmbl ("Woah!")
22:25:20LloreanEvanCarroll: Nobody said either of those
22:25:33LloreanEvanCarroll: We said A) They probably think it's better for them, and B) Don't expect anything to come from your demands.
22:25:44EvanCarrollok, well, i understand both of those ;)
22:25:46gevaertsAlso, whether or not you agree with (a) is totally irrelevant anyway
22:26:24LloreanAnyone know how to do the release branch properly?
22:26:51linuxstbLlorean: Yes, you say "Bagder, can you create the release branch?"
22:27:20LloreanAh, my guess was right. I should've had the courage to just go with instinct on that one.
22:27:41rasherCan't any committer branch?
22:27:50LloreanI think so.
22:28:02gevaertsLlorean: http://www.rockbox.org/irc/log-20080903#11:06:44
22:29:26linuxstbWho wants to do it then?
22:29:34BigBambiIMO, the release should just say v3.2 with no SVN revision at all for the version number
22:29:47LloreanBigBambi: That can be fixed in the branch later.
22:30:01LloreanRight now we should just create the branch, so it's there and the freeze on the main branch can lift.
22:30:20BigBambiLlorean: Sure, I just meant in general as we seem to have forgotten for 3.1. It certainly wasn't meant as a do now thing :)
22:30:47LloreanBigBambi: 3.0 has SVN revision and 3.0, 3.1 just had svn revision, 3.2 will just have 3.2?
22:30:50*gevaerts hopes that people will still hold back things like whitespace cleanups until the actual release
22:31:01LloreanShall I create the branch then?
22:31:15LloreanOh.
22:31:15gevaertssure
22:31:21BigBambiLlorean: I think that'd be best, and then from here on out just have the release v number
22:31:31LloreanI actually *can't* release the branch right now.
22:31:39gevaertsBigBambi: still 3.2-RC I think
22:31:39 Quit CaptainKewl ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
22:31:41LloreanMy laptop isn't in the box I thought it was packed in.
22:31:52BigBambiyes, 30 seconds :)
22:32:06*gevaerts volunteers
22:32:28BigBambiWhat's the build server up to?
22:32:35gevaerts3.2, right?
22:32:52Lloreanv3_2 for the branch, right?
22:33:04LloreanThe 3.2 is just for the svnversion string?
22:33:06gevaertsyes
22:33:14*gevaerts commits
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22:36:53BigBambiLlorean: topic change?
22:37:24gevaertsLlorean: do you want to send the mail to -dev, or shall I?
22:37:46Lloreangevaerts: Feel free
22:38:26gevaertsok
22:38:57Topic"Please read before speaking: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/IrcGuidelines | Please direct offtopic/social chat to #rockbox-community | 3.2 is branched for release candidates." by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
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22:42:58Bagderdidn't 3.1 include "3.1"?
22:43:14Bagderoh
22:43:19*Bagder spots his mistake
22:44:22***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:44:47bubsymushroom mushroom
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22:45:55*Bagder starts a 3.2-RC build round
22:46:59*gevaerts sends mail
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22:55:04Bagderso do we know it's a AS3536 in the newer sansas?
22:55:22poolboy420no rockbox for 120gb ipods?
22:56:23poolboy420anyone?
22:56:55Bagderno
22:57:02Bagderas the rockbox.org front page says...
22:57:25poolboy420that blows. do you know when it will be released?
22:57:43Bagdernot anytime soon, if ever
22:57:52poolboy420i didnt c it on the front page
22:58:00gevaertsc?
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22:59:13gevaertsBagder: did my mail to -dev get lost?
23:00
23:00:23Bagderload average: 31.57, perhaps it'll take a little longer than usual...
23:00:46gevaertsThat would explain it :)
23:03:51Bagderbut no, I don't see it in the mailman logs
23:04:15gevaertsI could resend...
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23:14:51*amiconn ponders the feasibility of a pure asm opt
23:15:05amiconnGcc is just too stupid to optimise this properly...
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23:16:51saratogagevaerts: I tried Toni's patch and was able to copy 15GB without any disconnects
23:16:57saratogai think this is promising, but I need to test more
23:17:00Bagderthe 3.2 RC builds are done
23:17:18amiconnLoading constants from memory, in a tight loop, when there are enough registers available. Also not taking the pipeline latency of the multiplier into account...
23:17:38saratogathe disconnect thing seems sporadic to me, I was able to copy 2GB with SVN rockbox today without disconnects, while the other day I could barely do 200MB
23:17:53saratogai need to test more rigorously to be sure the improvement is real
23:18:21amiconnSounds like battery problems...
23:18:51Bagderhttp://daniel.haxx.se/rockbox/rc-3.2/
23:19:40gevaertssaratoga: that sounds promising at least :)
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23:20:36gevaertssaratoga: this is svn+Toni's patch, without FS #10015, right?
23:20:49*amiconn never copied that much using rockbox usb
23:21:00bubsyhttp://dailyfail.blogspot.com/2008/05/ogc-logo-fail.html
23:21:23amiconnNot because I don't trust it, but because OF/diskmode is faster, and I don't want to wait unnecessarily
23:21:47gevaertsbubsy: please, this is not a random chatter channel...
23:21:51amiconngevaerts: Is there a patch containing your usb speedup work?
23:22:06saratogagevaerts: yes SVN with only Toni's patch
23:22:11bubsygevaerts: Sorry for trying to make people smile
23:22:14bubsyI'll stop with it
23:22:15gevaertsamiconn: FS #10015. You need the DMA patch to make full use of it though
23:22:36saratogafor the Sansa, the OF and Rockbox speed are basically the same
23:22:40saratogaunfortunately both are very slow
23:22:46saratogatesting is quite tedious
23:23:45saratogais Toni's patch supposed to be Sansa specific?
23:23:46Bagderbubsy: #rockbox-community is there for that purpose
23:24:10*pixelma was too slow pointing to the topic
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23:29:22gevaertssaratoga: not sure. from what I understand it's pretty generic, although ipods may of course be different
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23:39:27Texok i have an ipod clasic 80g so would that be the same as ipod video?
23:39:34n1sno
23:39:39Tex...crap
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23:45:51saratogagevaerts: did funman say if he received your cable yet?
23:46:23gevaertssaratoga: no, but I wouldn't expect that yet. It went out on friday, so it's only been two working days
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23:50:23saratogaah ok for some reason it felt like longer
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