#rockbox 2009-03-26

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#rockbox log for 2009-03-26

00:00:02	TBOL3	Llorean: I'm sorry, I had just found the post that says that it's off topic, so I didn't know it was until I saw you yelling at me. Again, I'm sorry, and will use PMs.
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00:00:38	mackotz	hi is there a version of rockbox for ipod shuffel sorry my english is very bad so i have problems for searching this information on the rockbox page
00:00:51	TBOL3	Nope
00:00:58	Bagder	mackotz: it is mention on the front page
00:01:01	Bagder	mentioned
00:01:04	TBOL3	At least none that I know of.
00:01:14	mackotz	ok thx
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00:04:41	rasher	Llorean: Should we advertise for a fancy "download installer" button in the wps forum?
00:05:31	JdGordon\|	comeplete with browser toolbars!
00:05:53	bluefoxx	browser toolbars=no in my opinion <_<
00:06:43		Quit Zagor ("Clint excited")
00:06:53	bluefoxx	I noticed a trend that whenever a program attempts to sneak a toolbar into your browser, change your homepage and vomits shortcuts to everything everywhere people get annoyed...
00:07:22	*	JdGordon\| was joking
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00:09:10	Llorean	rasher: Sure!
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00:10:51	casainho	ok - CabieV2 is working :-) −− I had to use checkwps for verify that I were missing the "#define HAVE_ALBUMART" on config file :-)
00:11:16	casainho	domonoky did help me going to make checkwps working :-)
00:11:16	rasher	casainho: I thought you said you had added that.
00:11:36	casainho	rasher: I did, but as "#define HAVE_ALBUM_ART"
00:12:31	casainho	rasher: you wrote like that and I didn't know. Even I diddn't know that I had to reconfigure....
00:12:54	rasher	casainho: Ah, oh well.
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00:13:25	casainho	rasher: then I will do the promotional video right now!! many thanks :-)
00:13:30	casainho	good night :-)
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00:16:03	rasher	Llorean: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=21100.0
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00:18:35	Llorean	rasher: Looks good.
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00:54:04	Hillshum	Is http or ftp faster on installing Cygwin?
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01:04:57	Hillshum	Are the radio: thingies keywords? http://rockbox.pastebin.com/f595b1bc2
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01:12:39	JdGordon	Hillshum: there is a file, apps/features.txt which is where those keywords come from... radio means that that if the target has the radio it will have that text
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01:20:11	cmwslw	I don't know if you guys already know, but the datasheet for the iPod's processor has been found
01:20:22	Hillshum	legally?
01:20:51	cmwslw	it was actually found from a link on the Rockbox wiki
01:21:20	cmwslw	see the top part of this article: http://nxtpp.clustur.com/index.php/Hardware
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01:22:27	Hillshum	Did the manufacturer release it?
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01:26:15	cmwslw	I don't know
01:26:47	cmwslw	Well Samsung obviously made it
01:26:59	cmwslw	but they probably did not intend it to be leaked
01:27:20	taylor_	cmwslw: where did you find this again, btw?
01:27:48	cmwslw	http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SamsungSA58#SA58700_codename_Blues
01:27:55	cmwslw	it's under the wrong chip, though
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01:28:08	taylor_	I see.....
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01:29:38	Hillshum	MarcGuay posted it apparently
01:30:30	cmwslw	Is he still active?
01:30:35	cmwslw	When did he post it?
01:31:11	Hillshum	He's still around
01:31:41	kushalone1	Hi guys, what is the upward limit on SDHC card will work in a sansa c2xx mp3 player? thank you. Oh, and a friend wanted to know how he can distinguish between a v1 and v2 when buying online. any sugestions?
01:31:42	Hillshum	31 Jul 2008
01:31:54	kushalone1	* with rockbox
01:31:57	taylor_	Wow...that was a while ago ;)
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01:32:59	cmwslw	Well, bye I guess :P
01:33:05	taylor_	haha
01:33:19	cmwslw	We really need to get a hold of MarcGuay
01:34:11	taylor_	why tho? All he really did was post that..
01:34:27	cmwslw	We need to know where he found it
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01:35:08	taylor_	true
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01:44:54	cmwslw	Actually, Marcoen Hirschberg added the link to the datasheet
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02:02:47	scorche	kushalone1: theoretically, anything SDHC supports...and you cant really distinguish when buying online
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02:56:56	taylor_	Alright, good night everyone
02:57:02	ebswift	quick question... is there a rockbox utility for using a device as an auxilary display on a PC?
02:57:10	soap	no
02:57:18	taylor_	not sure
02:57:23	taylor_	oh, no I guess
02:57:47	ebswift	well anyone aware of any other hacks... like the old mini picture frame hack?
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02:58:06	soap	All known tricks are actually shipped with Rockbox.
02:58:32	ebswift	k, thankyou
03:00
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04:06:21	leprasmurf	Hello all, I'm interested in GSOC and am an avid user of rockbox. I was wondering, is coding for an mp3 player different from coding for x86?
04:07:17	leprasmurf	Also, I have a sansa e260, would that be an appropriate testbed for a project that would likely be acceptable to rockbox, or is there a virtual platform for multi-device testing?
04:09:50	Unhelpful	leprasmurf: our targets do not generally have hardware floating point, simd instructions, and many lack hardware division, so you must be a bit careful about how you do math on them. also, whatever OS/library functions you're accustomed to on x86, ours are going to be at least a bit different.
04:10:43	leprasmurf	Unhelpful: can I safely assume documentation on the libraries is readily available?
04:11:58		Quit swathanthran (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
04:12:04	Unhelpful	...to a certain degree. we also don't actually have loadable libraries on rockbox. the core is essentially a monolithic binary. plugins and codecs are loaded at fixed addresses, and given a pointer to a structure that contains pointers to certain core functions.
04:12:25	leprasmurf	wow, ok
04:14:59	leprasmurf	I imagine that's a principal reason for different source downloads per hardware?
04:15:11	leprasmurf	that and the available controls per device
04:15:29	Llorean	There's only one source download that covers all hardware.
04:15:36	Llorean	There's different binary downloads per hardware.
04:15:47	leprasmurf	oh, my bad
04:16:45	Llorean	As to "testbed", it kinda depends on what you're interested in working on.
04:17:19	Llorean	Rockbox is more or less divided into two parts, "apps" and "firmware". Apps stuff can readily (mostly) be tested on the Simulators. Firmware stuff requires the appropriate hardware to get right. Most GSOC stuff isn't likely to be firmware-level though
04:18:14	leprasmurf	if plugins and codecs are loaded at fixed addresses, how is the address chosen? Would different devices have different amounts of memory available?
04:18:34	Llorean	yes and no.
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04:18:50	Llorean	All "modern" devices are given the same amount of memory for each. Only the old hardware-codec Archos devices aren't.
04:18:53	leprasmurf	I imagine there's a core amount available
04:19:00	leprasmurf	oic
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04:19:43	Llorean	Though it's possible that some newer targets with very limited resource will have smaller plugin buffers, among supported targets at this time they're all the same. 512KB (if I recall correctly) if music is playing, but if music is allowed to be stopped they can also grab the compressed audio buffer (which varies based on physical RAM)
04:21:40	leprasmurf	so the 512KB, that's not shared with any of the core, right? That's dedicated eeprom space, right?
04:21:59	Unhelpful	that's ram.
04:22:22	Llorean	It's dedicated RAM for storing the currently loaded plugin and its data.
04:22:28	leprasmurf	sorry, I think firmware I think rom, but rom is read only, so I think eeprom
04:22:47	Unhelpful	the plugin's code is loaded into the plugin buffer, it may use the rest of it for data if it chooses
04:23:23	Llorean	leprasmurf: In most cases Rockbox is actually loaded from disk into RAM by some code in ROM that's either what would load the original firmware from disk, or is something we've put there (in a few cases)
04:23:48	Llorean	In the majority of cases, Rockbox itself is never in ROM of any sort, though on a few players we support loading (and executing) it from there to save a bit of RAM and speed up boot time.
04:23:58	Llorean	As far as I know, though, plugins are never in the ROM
04:24:17	leprasmurf	duh! that's why rockbox and the original sansa firmware can coexist, because of the bootloader
04:24:50	leprasmurf	duh to me, not you guys
04:26:33	leprasmurf	this may be a stupid question, but what about swap? I can't imagine most of any plugins would go past the 512k limit, but just curious
04:28:28	Llorean	There's no existing mechanism for it.
04:28:35	Llorean	What sort of project did you have in mind, anyway?
04:29:22	leprasmurf	well, I don't know entirely. I've been going over the ideas list and am trying to isolate which ones I'd be capable of completing
04:29:48	Unhelpful	if you really want to manage data larger than fits in the plugin buffer, the first thing to do is stop playback and grab the audio buffer. if that's not sufficient, you should probably be thinking about whether this is something you can run on rockbox at all, but you could always manage a pagefile yourself.
04:30:14	leprasmurf	I liked the look of the usb connectors, things like the (basically) tethering the DAP to the computer (USB soundcard or USB radio tuner)
04:30:20	Llorean	leprasmurf: The idea list isn't strict, either. If you have something you feel you're more capable of completing, while at the same time would offer a very real benefit to Rockbox (and be of appropriate scale for a GSoC project) you're welcome to propose an application for a new idea.
04:30:22	leprasmurf	but I was also thinking of the document viewer
04:31:22	leprasmurf	Llorean: yeah, there are a few things that's irked me about my release of rockbox (though I don't know the number I have right now)
04:32:25	leprasmurf	such as being able to save a playlist, and a bookmark within that playlist, and interchange playlists
04:32:57	leprasmurf	i.e. listening to an audio book while driving, but when reaching my destination, saving my spot on that playlist and loading music so I can code
04:33:17	Llorean	It's possible to do that. With "Bookmark on stop" it's even pretty painless.
04:34:06	leprasmurf	I didn't realize
04:35:06	leprasmurf	hey, I'm happy I finally discovered the joy of "Car Adapter Mode"
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04:39:57	sktrdie	I know this may sound a bit stupid, but I was looking at the Rockbox project and was wondering how you guys actually went through creating a firmware without having the hardware specs? Does it involve a lot of tedious reverse engeneering?
04:40:48	Llorean	sktrdie: It varies from player to player. In some cases we have docs. In others there's a lot of tedious reverse engineering. In others someone else has done it in another open source project, and we can share the fruits of it.
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04:42:10	sktrdie	Llorean: I see, I know C, but not enough of Assembly, although I guess my question is to what you think would be a good place to start to mess around with my mp3 player.
04:42:52	saratoga_home	work on whatever is interesting to you
04:42:58	saratoga_home	i don't think anyone can tell you that
04:44:51	sktrdie	saratoga_home: Yeah, but I basically have zero information on the Hardware of this thing, and have googled a bunch already, so my bet I guess could be to start reading how Rockbox works with other mp3 players.
04:45:39	saratoga_home	if you don't know about the hardware, maybe thats not a good place to start
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04:52:31	leprasmurf	Can C++ execute within rockbox?
04:53:12	Llorean	leprasmurf: Short answer - not practically.
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04:54:07	leprasmurf	so trying to implement espeak wouldn't really be practical then, unless it could be converted to C only, right?
04:55:33	Llorean	http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/7660 is actually a port of espeak to Rockbox, though it's from after they switched to GPLv3 which would necessitate a license change of Rockbox
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04:59:21	leprasmurf	I'm trying to find it on the site, so as not to ask LTFG questions, but what is the license of rockbox?
05:00
05:01:33	leprasmurf	ah, GNU GPL
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05:06:03	Llorean	"GPLv2 or later"
05:06:26	Llorean	Which means we prefer to only include code from projects that are also "2 or later" to preserve the freedom that brings for other people to incorporate our code.
05:06:39	leprasmurf	sigh licensing gives me a headach :-)
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05:07:31	leprasmurf	so according to comments in that tracker, if someone were to want to implement espeak, they would have to use a previously released version which is "GPLv2 or later"
05:08:02	Llorean	If they wanted their work incorporated into the official build, yes. Which should be the goal with any GSOC work
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05:12:14	leprasmurf	I see Richard Stallman doesn't seem to think it's a problem
05:12:49	leprasmurf	(the fact that gpl2 and gpl3 are incompatible)
05:13:54	Llorean	License philosophy isn't really a topic for in here. Needless to say, code needs to be compatible with our license if we're going to incorporate it.
05:14:36	leprasmurf	right, my bad
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05:31:44	leprasmurf	Unhelpful, Llorean: thanks for your patience and answers
05:31:49	leprasmurf	g'night all
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08:12:47	amiconn	[04:18:50] <Llorean> All "modern" devices are given the same amount of memory for each. Only the old hardware-codec Archos devices aren't. <== Not true. The archoses all have the same amount of RAM (2MB), just they can be modded to have 8MB. This is even less variable than the ipod Video, which can have either 32MB or 64MB out of the box...
08:13:14	Llorean	amiconn: The 8mb Archoses still have the same amount of plugin buffer as the 2mb though, right?
08:13:24	Llorean	"each" refers to plugin and codec buffers.
08:14:12	amiconn	Yes, the same way as the 32MB and 64MB ipods have the same amount. Neither have it at the same address
08:15:04	amiconn	Ah, you mean the amount of plugin RAM. That's not true either. The ams sansas don't have 512KB of plugin and codec ram
08:15:57	Llorean	I think in my full statement I mentioned supported targets, and how future low resource targets are different, though
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10:04:10	B4gder	maybe we should make a theme competition
10:04:34	B4gder	and hand out prizes to the best ones
10:10:35	n1s	yeah, that could be fun
10:13:35	*	linuxstb nudges B4gder towards WhyRealNames
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10:23:45	MT	linuxstb : Hello, my mid-terms are approaching, so I'm not going to be able to dedicate significant time to the project till ~ 10th of April ..
10:27:32	MT	linuxstb : I hope this wouldn't be a problem :)
10:29:48	linuxstb	Not at all - good luck with them.
10:32:36	MT	thanks
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12:42:34	l403	Hi. I'm foolowing te great Simple Guide to compiling in the Compiling section. I have added the /usr/local/arm-elf/bin path, but the /tool/confidurer complains that I have to add path for the compiler arm-elf-gcc. Now I thinng it is expecting /usr/local/arm-elf-gcc/bin but there is no such path
12:43:29	l403	*no such directory
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12:54:28	l403	I might leave in a bit but will stay online so you can leave me some advice if you ave somthing to say, thank you
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13:24:10	pyro_maniac	I403: did you run the rockboxdev.sh script in the tools directory?
13:25:22	B4gder	and /usr/local/arm-elf/bin/arm-elf-gcc would be the full path to gcc
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13:25:41	B4gder	... using the default path
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13:37:12	l403	pyro_maniac: yes, I did un the script and did not notice and errors during its execution
13:40:23	l403	B4gder: but I have added /usr/local/arm-elf/bin/ to .bashrc
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13:40:54	l403	just like this export PATH=$PATH:/usr/local/arm-elf/bin
13:40:58	gevaerts	l403: but have you re-run .bashrc?
13:41:13	B4gder	then "arm-elf-gcc −−version" should show something
13:41:43	l403	nothing pops up when I do arm [tab]
13:41:53	B4gder	echo $PATH
13:42:35	rasher	Did you log out and back in?
13:43:12	l403	I have closed and opened the root termina;
13:44:03	l403	and the path does nooot appear in $PATH, so I gues I'll juust restart and it should be loaded
13:44:45	l403	brb
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13:45:50	rasher	Wait. Root terminal?
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13:56:44	Dillizar	how is the progress doing for gogear mp3 players
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14:03:47	LambdaCalculus37	Dillizar: Please don't ask for progress updates. The wiki pages will have all of the updates you need listed.
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14:14:07	l403	now, that was a trivial error :
14:14:10	l403	:D
14:14:27	l403	tthee problem was I was root
14:14:53	B4gder	the root of the problem!
14:15:35	l403	and since I sett the pathh too the bin directory for me as non root user, then echo $PATH as root showed the root's paths
14:16:05	l403	now a Makefile has been made
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14:18:48	l403	well, thanx for trying to asist me
14:18:56	funman	hello
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14:19:37	funman	LCD display on Clipv2 \o/
14:19:47	B4gder	rocking!
14:21:14	moos	funman: Double félicitations (/me thinking data storage too), indeed rocking!
14:21:52	Zagor	funman: wohoo!
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14:22:53	funman	I could quickly see a nice "ATA error: -1" however
14:23:37	funman	the primecell documentation for SD controllers has disappeared from arm.com
14:23:48	funman	pl180 had been marked as "out of date" for some time though
14:24:18	moos	maybe someone here have them somewhere else?
14:24:57	funman	I still have a copy of pl180 doc, but it's not the controller used in Clipv2, I was hoping to see that pl182 registers match, for example
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14:30:29	funman	B4gder: how much time did AMS take to answer you when you requested the AS3525 datasheet ?
14:32:16	B4gder	hours
14:32:34	B4gder	but then I had already been in touch with them several times before
14:32:55	funman	did you have email conversations, or only used their web interface ?
14:33:01	B4gder	email
14:33:20	*	LambdaCalculus37 remembers back when B4gder was requesting datasheets for the AS3514
14:33:27	funman	perhaps if i didn't mention how much k€ I wanted to give them they just deleted my request
14:33:28	B4gder	if you don't get a response in a few days, I'll send off a request as well
14:33:39	B4gder	directly to "my guys"
14:33:59	funman	a kind of underground embedded mafia?
14:34:27	B4gder	well, I guess there's a risk of a filter somewhere that receives messages from the web interface
14:34:49	B4gder	I mean as opposed to addressing individuals
14:35:10	B4gder	but yeah, the hit team might get involved too! ;-P
14:35:10	funman	sure, and perhaps i shouldn't have asked for AS3536 & AS3530 (video related documents are more sensible than audio)
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16:00
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16:00:51	scott_	is rockbox compatible with Creative Zen ?
16:01:15	grdxyxy	scott_: no
16:01:22	scott_	:(
16:01:27	grdxyxy	scott_: not yet
16:01:33	scott_	well seems i bought a worthless product
16:01:39	scott_	Creative is hitler
16:02:58	grdxyxy	scott_:zvm may be supported before long
16:03:33	grdxyxy	scott_: but i am not sure
16:04:06	scott_	zvm?
16:04:21	scott_	well its just that every video i give the device, it cant play
16:04:26	grdxyxy	scott_: what kind of zen have you got?
16:04:32	scott_	its the Zen 4gb
16:04:46	grdxyxy	scott_: zen micro?
16:04:51	scott_	even the podcasts i tried to get to work with it, have to convert to some format first
16:04:54	scott_	no
16:05:21	scott_	does their player use a proprietary codec only?
16:05:48	scott_	i was hoping for 3rd party firmware to allow for playing a wider range of compression methods
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16:09:37	grdxyxy	scott_: what is your nation?
16:09:40	kugel	pyro_maniac: good news
16:10:01	pyro_maniac	kugel: speak it out!
16:10:53	kugel	I used the 20gb build, and it works
16:10:59	kugel	display is almost fine
16:11:15	scott_	grdxyxy: US
16:11:17	pyro_maniac	you re kidding
16:11:48	scott_	grdxyxy: does it matter?
16:12:05	grdxyxy	scott_: no, i just wonder that.
16:12:10	pyro_maniac	kugel: display works or something else to?
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16:12:35	kugel	usb works too, but it directly goes to usb after boot
16:12:44	gevaerts	grdxyxy: please keep on topic
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16:12:54	pyro_maniac	you have to disconnect
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16:13:16	pyro_maniac	then the real firmware is getting startet
16:13:51	grdxyxy	gevaerts:keep on what topic?
16:14:45	kugel	pyro_maniac: huh?
16:14:54	kugel	I mean rockbox goes to usb
16:15:06	pyro_maniac	grdxyxy: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/IrcGuidelines
16:15:45	pyro_maniac	kugel: ah ok rockbox is running and changes to usb mode?
16:16:00	pyro_maniac	kugel: always?
16:16:15	pyro_maniac	kugel: i mean, even if you disconnect the cable?
16:19:00	grdxyxy	pyro_maniac: sorry,i see
16:21:27	kugel	pyro_maniac: yea
16:22:00		Quit wangxiang__ (Success)
16:22:43	pyro_maniac	kugel: ok but that sounds lovely to me
16:23:21	pyro_maniac	so we have to take it into the list i think :-D
16:24:04	pyro_maniac	i am wounder if this could work on my device too!?
16:25:42	kugel	did you have the 925 too?
16:26:08	pyro_maniac	no i have a 920
16:26:16	kugel	to make the bl accept the firmware, you need to change configure
16:26:30	kugel	the h10_20gb I mean
16:26:38	pyro_maniac	my hope was, that only the lcd is different
16:26:48	pyro_maniac	what did you change?
16:27:48	kugel	scramble must output mi4v2, instead of v3
16:28:30	pyro_maniac	ok
16:28:35	pyro_maniac	sounds easy
16:30:44	pyro_maniac	is that the only change?
16:31:00	kugel	pretty much yes
16:31:12	kugel	the display is at least working, but flipped and with a decent offset
16:31:28	kugel	but sharp
16:31:50	pyro_maniac	can you dissable USB and test more?
16:32:22	kugel	hm, I want the display nicely first
16:32:26	kugel	then buttons
16:32:39	kugel	but that may need usb disabled, indeed.
16:34:42	pyro_maniac	i am excited
16:37:45	*	kugel too
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16:48:51	scott_	im gonna have to use gspot on the included videos with this player todetermine the proper codec and format to use when reencoding my own videos
16:49:23	scott_	does anyone use ffmpeg for converting videos for players?
16:52:32	evilnick	scott_: It's listed in the Wiki as being an application that will work, but I don't personally use it.
17:00
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17:04:55	kugel	pyro_maniac: what was the command you used for disassembling?
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17:05:25	pyro_maniac	kugel: i used IDA Pro on windows
17:05:39	scott_	evilnick: which app?
17:05:58	scott_	oh yeah ffmpeg
17:06:10	kugel	pyro_maniac: you just loaded the .rom?
17:06:18	scott_	well i found a gui frontend to ffmpeg for windows
17:06:23	scott_	FFE
17:08:02	evilnick	I've successfully converted some videos using WinFF and some using VLC
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17:11:00	pyro_maniac	kugel: you never worked with it before?
17:12:18	pyro_maniac	i just opened it via drag and drop, configured the cpu architecture and pressed ok
17:12:29	rasher	Zagor, Bagder: Time to add 3.2 to the flyspray version list
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17:13:22	pyro_maniac	then i marked the whole code, pressed 'C' and then analyse and got the code as result
17:13:39	pyro_maniac	pretty easy but i don't no more about it
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17:14:31	kugel	pyro_maniac: I have no access to ida, atm
17:15:44	kugel	linuxstb: ping. What's the command for disassembling a binary with arm-elf-objdump (a .rom file)? it says file format not recognized
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17:16:52	kugel	I think I got it
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17:18:26	pyro_maniac	kugel: you are on the bootloader right?
17:20:02	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:20:39	kugel	yea
17:21:29		Quit bmbl (Client Quit)
17:21:55	pyro_maniac	could you compare it to the 920 version too?
17:22:33	pyro_maniac	i am interested in what you think about it
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17:25:03	kugel	pyro_maniac: no, I'm trying to find lcd commands
17:25:23	pyro_maniac	ok
17:26:23	pyro_maniac	i have to do something to ;-) so this could be good for me :-)
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17:37:08	pyro_maniac	kugel: sorry if i am annoying but found something?
17:40:12	kugel	not yet
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17:42:21	pyro_maniac	i am not sure but i belive that i have read 0x70003000 in my disassamblys
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17:44:43	kugel	pyro_maniac: h10 uses LCD2_BASE, which is at 0x70008a00
17:46:25	pyro_maniac	kugel: ok maybe i am wrong
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18:00
18:00:59	rasher	http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=21100.0;attach=3549;image That's a bit big..
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18:13:29	pixelma	rasher: on the theme site - who or what decided that the GreyscaleVP theme (160x128) would work for all colour depths?
18:13:49	rasher	pixelma: I said we ignore colour depth currently
18:14:05	rasher	Maybe we shouldn't
18:14:55	pixelma	I expect this one to only work in greyscale
18:15:50	rasher	So should we not show greyscale themes for colour targets?
18:16:02	rasher	And require an exact bitdepth match?
18:16:17	rasher	This means people won't be able to install them from rbutil
18:18:29	pixelma	some things wont't work (tried to explain that yesterday - if WPS backdrop is used or album art or custom colours in viewports). Could the theme site run the WPS through checkwps for all three colour depths?
18:19:03	pixelma	and put it on the pages accordingly?
18:19:07	rasher	It does already, if I'm not mistaken
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18:19:25	rasher	Let me check the db
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18:21:03	pixelma	I can't imagine that the GreyscaleVP works in any other, unless the WPS parser ignores the colour parameters
18:21:38	rasher	Wouldn't it work on h10?
18:21:44	pixelma	or better "shades of grey"
18:23:00	pixelma	those shades of grey are only 0, 1, 2, 3 there were viewports on colour targets define an RGB value
18:23:10	pixelma	s/were/where
18:24:03	rasher	Ah, right. Well there's an additional problem
18:25:06	rasher	Right now it doesn't even try to test on mrobe and h10 because the wps was uploaded as a h120 theme, and marked as having an rwps (I'm not sure if it does, actually - this should be properly checked rather than assuming all h120 themes have one. Oops)
18:25:19	rasher	But that's a bit broken. I'll have to put on my thinking cap.
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18:26:13	pixelma	alright, thanks for looking into this
18:26:22	Thesmyth1	hey all, are there people around that I could talk to about Google Summer of code?
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18:28:27	LambdaCalculus37	Thesmyth1: Do you have a project idea?
18:28:41	Thesmyth1	well, I'm interested in the ARM emulator
18:29:02	Thesmyth1	I'm in Electrical Engineer but I love programming
18:29:23	Thesmyth1	and I've tried programming an emulator before
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18:32:56	Thesmyth1	are there possible mentors assigned to any of the projects that I might be able to talk to?
18:35:53	saratoga	i proposed the emulator project last year
18:35:58	saratoga	so i can talk to you about it
18:36:14	Thesmyth1	ohh, cool
18:36:30	Thesmyth1	I
18:36:45	Thesmyth1	've attempted writting an NES emulator before
18:36:48	saratoga	its an abitious project, last years student quit after a few weeks
18:36:57	saratoga	how far did you get?
18:37:25	Thesmyth1	It successfully rendered a test ROM that I get online, but failed to run an actually ROM
18:38:09	Thesmyth1	I spent most of the fall semester playing with it
18:38:18	saratoga	have you done assembly or HDL programming?
18:38:24	Thesmyth1	I was mostly writing it in VHDL and running it on an FPGA
18:38:44	Thesmyth1	but at the end it wasn't working right, so I coded it again in Java to make sure my logic was working out right
18:38:52	Thesmyth1	which is where the rendering was coming from
18:39:09	saratoga	have you done any ARM?
18:39:20	saratoga	or Coldfire I suppose if you're interested in those
18:39:35	Thesmyth1	I've done a bit of MIPS assembly in my Comp Eng classes
18:39:55	Thesmyth1	but I don't have any specific experience with ARM or Coldfire processors
18:40:26	saratoga	ok
18:40:35	saratoga	ARM ressembles MIPS in some ways
18:40:51	saratoga	what device were you interested in emulating?
18:41:08	Thesmyth1	at this point I don't have a specific device
18:41:34	saratoga	no rockbox'ed player?
18:41:52	Thesmyth1	I have an H300 that has somehow lasted for 5 years :D
18:42:08	Thesmyth1	which is Coldfire
18:42:35	saratoga	a coldfire emulator could be a project, but its less interesting because there have been no new coldfire players in a long time
18:42:45	Thesmyth1	yeah
18:42:58	Thesmyth1	would I need the actual device, or do I just need to find good specs for the chips
18:43:15	saratoga	you'll probably need a device
18:43:29	Thesmyth1	ok then
18:43:49	Thesmyth1	so I can use debugging tools to get more info about the hardware?
18:45:08	Thesmyth1	I've never done any reverse engineering stuff specifically, but what type of work is required?
18:45:10	saratoga	particularly if you chose to emulate a target with little documentation
18:45:18	saratoga	yes you'll be doing a very large amount of that
18:45:43	saratoga	even for targets where we have docs, they're seldom entirely complete, and do not tell you how the manufactorer has wired up the chip
18:45:58	saratoga	for many targets, the only docs are the rockbox source code
18:47:05	saratoga	we have one half workign emulator for the PP based Sandisk Sansa e200v1, and it was written mostly by looking at the rockbox source code and the docs for the ARM7TDMI processor
18:47:16	saratoga	but it was quite incomplete
18:48:40	Thesmyth1	so since I've never done it, how do you test chip functionality?
18:48:57	Thesmyth1	would I have to write custom code to run on rockbox to test the chips?
18:49:30	saratoga	perhaps
18:49:49	saratoga	i think you would start with the rockbox source code and the docs [if any exist] and then take a standard arm emulator
18:49:58	saratoga	then begin implementing the hardware devices that rockbox has drivers for
18:50:08	saratoga	until you get rockbox to boot
18:51:22	Thesmyth1	alright, that's pretty much what I figured
18:52:14	Thesmyth1	it sounds really interesting
18:52:42	saratoga	you might take a look at the old emulator
18:52:47	saratoga	its on our patch tracker somewhere
18:53:12	saratoga	its a standard arm emulator combined with a second emulator for screen, buttons, etc
18:53:35	Thesmyth1	ok, I definitely will
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18:56:45	Thesmyth1	thanks for the info, I'll look into that and drop by again
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19:00
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19:07:03	dberg918	just saw that the themes site is up, and I wanted to say kudos!
19:07:43	dberg918	and now a question
19:08:24	dberg918	if I've already uploaded a couple themes to the old WPS gallery, do I need to resubmit to have them included on the themes site?
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19:09:18	rasher	dberg918: Yes, we'd like the authors to upload them to the new theme site. Take note of the license, if you've used graphics/code from other people's themes
19:10:22	dberg918	cool
19:10:38	dberg918	I'll try to get mine ready to upload later today
19:12:41	rasher	Great, it's still a bit empty there
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19:13:30	rasher	dberg918: it would actually be great if you could delete your theme from the wpsgallery at the same time, or make a (very obvious) note that it's been moved.
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19:14:48	low_light	kugel, pyro_maniac: I have the Samsung yh-820 & yh-925. I've got the lcd and buttons working in a basic bootloader (not a full build yet)
19:15:37	pyro_maniac	wow
19:15:44	pyro_maniac	\o/
19:15:50	low_light	I have also looked at the yh-920 firmware and have written a basic lcd driver (although I don't have an actual device)
19:16:34	pyro_maniac	low_light: maybe you can upload it and i will test it tomorrow or on weekend
19:17:04	low_light	I hope to commit the basic target trees next week for all three
19:17:07	kugel	low_light: oh, can I have some code?
19:17:31	JdGordon\|\|	those arnt the samsung players with bluetooth yeah?
19:17:37	pyro_maniac	no
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19:17:42	kugel	I've got a 925, and a 820 with pretty dead battery (the latter only temporary)
19:17:57	pyro_maniac	and i have a 920
19:18:08	low_light	jdgordon\|: more PP5020
19:18:20	kugel	low_light: Would be nice if you could share the lcd+button code. The rest can be taken from h10 it seems
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19:18:51	low_light	kugel: I'm at work and can't get to it now
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19:19:38	kugel	darn. well, I'm struggeling with the lcd a bit. the h10 20GB lcd driver works almost, but the window addresses need to be fixed
19:19:41	low_light	kugel: from what I recall, you can set the y-offset to 0 and add an x-offset of 16
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19:20:29	low_light	it will still be flipped/mirrored though. I had to change the entry mode register too
19:22:26	low_light	kugel: the ports also need a codec driver for the AK4537
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19:24:24	barrywardell	kugel: the USB thing is probably that your device uses a different GPIO bit to detect USB than the H10 does. Look at firmware/target/arm/usb-fw-pp502x.c
19:24:26	low_light	kugel: I'm also not sure if all the power settings in the h10 driver are right for the 925. I need to compare with what the 925 OF uses.
19:24:48	jian2587	Q: I'm using Sansa C200. How do I temporarily boot back to the original firmware from rockbox?
19:25:37	kugel	barrywardell: yea, I guessed that. USB works fine though
19:26:01		Quit barrywardell_ ()
19:26:04	low_light	kugel: USB detect is GPIOD bit 7 (from my notes)
19:26:05	rasher	jian2587: This is covered in the manual section 3.1.3
19:26:16	jian2587	rasher: thank you.
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19:28:40	barrywardell	kugel: great!
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19:38:30	Bagder	http://themes.rockbox.org/index.php?target=ipod4g
19:38:38	Bagder	4g greyscale shows a lot of colour...
19:39:20	rasher	Yes.. it's a tough one
19:39:44	Bagder	ah yes, the m5 has the same problem
19:40:08	rasher	It would be fairly easy to just require display depth match
19:40:19	rasher	But then, some themes might work anyway
19:40:36		Quit scott_ ("Lost terminal")
19:40:44	rasher	Depending on whether they use backdrops and viewports with colours defined
19:41:06	BigBambi	rasher: I think it is probbaly better to miss a few working ones than have Rockbox Utility install non-working ones
19:41:39	BigBambi	rasher: Also someone might think that RBUtil can magically make their greyscale player colour :)
19:42:09	rasher	Well, with some added sql magic, we could make sure the theme works, but the screenshot will of course not be accurate. rbutil could be informed of this
19:42:42	BigBambi	well that is even better :)
19:43:58	kugel	let checkwps check the depth?
19:44:19	rasher	No.
19:45:14	rasher	Checkwps just needs to check the syntax. That means the theme will load and work. It might not look good, but there's no way checkwps can know that
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19:48:35	kugel	low_light: D7 doesn't seem to work
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20:00
20:03:00	archivator	Anyone using FS #9857?
20:03:30	archivator	sorry - FS #8400 is what I meant.
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20:06:13	low_light	kugel: when I connect usb, GPIOD_INPUT_VAL goes from 0xE8 to 0xF8 (bit 7 goes high)
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20:09:38	kugel	low_light: that's not bit 7
20:09:56	kugel	more like bit 4
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20:14:32	low_light	kugel: my bad, you're right...that's why I write things down
20:14:51	taylor_	http://rapidshare.com/files/101234522/S5L8700X-DS.pdf.html... Thanks to cmwslw for finding this link on the Rockbox site. I'm just wondering, its marked as "confidential", Does anyone know who uploaded it? (the doc is on the chip in the new ipods)
20:15:08		Quit davidfg4 (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
20:16:06	Nico_P	archivator: hi! I've spent a little time toying with the spectrum idea and I'v got a little test plugin that gets the PCM data that's about to get sent to the DAC
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20:19:10	archivator	Nico_P: thanks to a tip from jhMikeS I found the bug in my code that basically discarded most of the data blush It now uses the peak buffer to get a pretty low latency copy of the data going to the DAC. I'm currently toying with visualization and FFT
20:19:36	Nico_P	you're using pcm_play_dma_get_peak_buffer?
20:19:43	archivator	Yes.
20:20:43	kugel	low_light: hm, no success. Seems to freeze just before the main menu shows
20:20:55	Nico_P	would you agree to pastebin the code?
20:21:02	archivator	Nico_P: Only, my first attempts discarded much of the data and I started looking for a different path. After a more careful look, I found my mistake and .. it's a matter of lots of fixed-point math now :)
20:21:13	archivator	Nico_P: which part? My current plugin is not usable.
20:21:29	kugel	low_light: will be back later. I hope you can hand some code out then (or pastebin it, so that I can read the logs and get it).
20:21:40		Quit kugel (Remote closed the connection)
20:21:41	archivator	I'm gonna post an FS entry as soon as I have something working anyway..
20:21:46	Nico_P	ok
20:22:20	JdGordon\|\|	Nico_P: hey, so what do you recon about 9795?
20:23:39	Nico_P	I haven't had much time to think about a possible way to make the various parts interact
20:24:21	JdGordon\|\|	so we should sit tight and do nothing until we discuss things properly?
20:24:33	*	JdGordon\|\| is ok with that btw...
20:25:14	JdGordon\|\|	also, I dont know if you saw the other patch, but I want to move the cuesheet logic out of the wps code and into playback somehow
20:25:33	JdGordon\|\|	the seeking/loading part anyway
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20:25:54	Nico_P	yes, that would be a good thing
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20:26:33	Nico_P	I think we should discuss it, yes. I don't have much planned this weekend so maybe I'll be able to give it some thought and maybe start a discussion on the ML
20:26:47	Nico_P	but if you have ideas and/or want to do so, feel free :)
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20:27:22	JdGordon\|\|	I'll wait till for your thread
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20:43:17	low_light	JdGordon\|\|: Is there an easy way to not draw the status bar on just a remote?
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20:43:40	archivator	Is there a way to compile _parts_ of rockbox core without debug output? The graphics optimizations (vertical/horizontal lines) are flooding my sim output..
20:43:42	low_light	I have the m:robe 100 remote working. I guess I'd like to not use the status bar on the remote, rather have it update the lcd icons
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20:44:24	JdGordon\|\|	low_light: no, never has been an option to disable the bar on one screen.... if you do a custom build it should be a simple change though
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21:00
21:00:10	low_light	jdgordon\|\|: I also want multifont. The remote display is really only practical with < 8pt fonts, but that's too small for the main display.
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21:01:17	JdGordon\|\|	yeah, multifont would be nice...
21:01:39	JdGordon\|\|	we could hack together a patch which lets you use 2 different fonts for 2 screen targets easily
21:01:46	*	JdGordon\|\| wonders why it hasnt been done yet
21:02:27	JdGordon\|\|	I'll play with that tonight maybe...
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21:02:55	low_light	that would be nice :-)
21:03:21	JdGordon\|\|	I'm not sure how much work would be involved... i cant imagine there is much
21:04:24	JdGordon\|\|	worst case.. we can force the remote display to use sysfont (yes, not very good... )
21:04:25	low_light	There's acually another problem with the statusbar...there's no sanity checks for it's width. It doesn't fit on the 79x16 display, so it data aborts.
21:04:46	JdGordon\|\|	doesnt surprise me :p
21:06:34	rwcr	Hi, anyone around for talk about a GSoC project?
21:06:47	JdGordon\|\|	a few of us...
21:07:53	JdGordon\|\|	low_light: but yeah... if you want to disable the bar on the remote its a very simple change.. apps/gui/statusbar.c i tihnk there is a macro/function named is_bar_displayed() or something... just get the to return false for screen==1 and your all set
21:08:23	rwcr	I've been looking at the project list, and I'm especially drawn to the ideas about extending Rockbox's USB support beyond basic mass storage device.
21:08:46		Quit cspotcode (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
21:08:55	*	JdGordon\|\| gets gevaerts's attention for rwcr
21:09:09	rwcr	Thanks.
21:10:04	*	gevaerts wakes up
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21:10:34	rwcr	Admittedly I'm pretty new to Rockbox, but I was a core iPodLinux developer for a while (I was josh_ there, new nickname because there are too many Joshes around :-) so I think I have a pretty good idea of the low-level development that'd be involved.
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21:11:30	pixelma	speaking of statusbar - I saw a weird glitch on my c200 just now (and it was reproducible). When going to the colour settings > line selector > primary colour > colour choser, backing out of that screen blanks the statusbar and it stays this way in the submenus, entering the main menu or WPS and then go back, makes it reappear
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21:12:07	scorche	rwcr: what sort of question did you have about the project(s)?
21:12:14	*	scorche adds an s
21:12:21	taylor_	rwcr: are you saying you want to help?
21:12:25	gevaerts	rwcr: I guess that means you have a supported ipod and that you know C :)
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21:13:01	JdGordon\|\|	pixelma: buzz kugel about that later :) he's doing a good job at fixing them
21:13:07	rwcr	Mainly I wanted to know how feasible that sort of thing would be - how strong Rockbox's general USB infrastructure is, how much documentation is available on the protocol in question, etc.
21:13:16	rwcr	And yes, I want to help, and I have a 5G iPod and I know C and ARM assembler.
21:13:25	low_light	jdgordon\|\|: looks like there's some code there with VP_SB_ONSCREEN() macros. I guess that's intended for wps.
21:13:32	BigBambi	JdGordon\|: I'd love multifont too, but different remote and main fonts would be a good start :)
21:14:00	taylor_	rwcr: You were a developer for iPL?
21:14:06	rwcr	I was indeed.
21:14:13	LiTHiUM0XiD3	so can i ask a question? why could i get rockbox and such running on my 1st gen nano... have it all super sweet... and i cant do the same for my PMP 1xx? i mean those things already run linux...
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21:14:40	scorche	LiTHiUM0XiD3: because non one has done the work necessary to port it to those devices
21:14:49	JdGordon\|\|	low_light: that could be it... i'm at work so cant be more specifc :/ )
21:14:56	rwcr	I'm Josh - I wrote various stuff, most notably the modular podzilla version.
21:15:19	LiTHiUM0XiD3	i wish someone would do something for the PM 1xx
21:15:20	domonoky	rwcr: on what USB extensions are you interessted ? More usb device classes, or maybe usb host ?
21:15:22	gevaerts	rwcr: protocol documentation is not a problem. We're only talking about standardised things here
21:15:27	BigBambi	LiTHiUM0XiD3: Rockbox needs to be adapted to the specific hardware in a player.
21:15:34	LiTHiUM0XiD3	oh i know
21:15:36	JdGordon\|\|	pixelma: isnt there a problem currently with targets sharing wps' where one has the remote and one doesnt so the fonts being used are different?
21:15:41	LiTHiUM0XiD3	like running a hackintosh..
21:15:51	LiTHiUM0XiD3	kernel and such has to be modified...
21:15:56	rwcr	USB host would be great, but I'm not sure the iPod can support it, and I don't have any other types of players to work with - which'd make development rather difficult.
21:16:10	scorche	the iPod cannot, right
21:16:21	LiTHiUM0XiD3	i know the difficulties... just wishin someone would do it lolz.. or hopin i could somehow help aswell...
21:16:21	BigBambi	LiTHiUM0XiD3: Only people who want it enough will do it.
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21:17:00	LiTHiUM0XiD3	i have minor linux skills..
21:17:07	LiTHiUM0XiD3	enough to run my own install with all my own spec
21:17:19	gevaerts	LiTHiUM0XiD3: you know that rockbox isn't based on linux, right?
21:17:24	BigBambi	LiTHiUM0XiD3: Let's stay on topic please
21:17:24	scorche	well, rockbox isnt linux...can you program in C?
21:17:46	gevaerts	rwcr: I assume you've read the USB bits on the SummerOfCode2009 page?
21:17:46	LiTHiUM0XiD3	i know its not linux based...
21:17:53	rwcr	I was thinking more along the lines of implementing the MTP device class, with the hopeful goal of letting files get transferred while Rockbox was running.
21:17:57	rwcr	Yeah, I've read those bits.
21:18:02	pixelma	JdGordon\|\|: can't think of one. There was the problem with the Clip WPS which was the same as the Iriver remote and if you didn't want to break it, the WPS looked wrong on the Clip because it uses a different sized default font but that's been solved by giving the Clip an on WPS
21:18:04	LiTHiUM0XiD3	but with a linux OS already on the PMP 1xx it shouldnt be hard..
21:18:15	LiTHiUM0XiD3	and im shit with C...
21:18:44	LiTHiUM0XiD3	i started learnin a few yrs ago.... got rly into it... but then got bored and moved onto delphi..
21:18:54	LiTHiUM0XiD3	which i only half picked up on aswell
21:19:08	rwcr	Actually, maybe a USB-Ethernet implementation would be more useful - not sure how well that's supported host-end for the average user, though.
21:19:09		Quit midgey ()
21:19:10	scorche	LiTHiUM0XiD3: if you are trying to convince someone here to work on it for you, i dont think is going to work well...ports are started by people with the motivation, the capability, and the device itself
21:19:26	LiTHiUM0XiD3	im not askin someone else to it for me at all
21:19:37	LiTHiUM0XiD3	im just stating that i know i dont have the skills to finish it...
21:19:48	LiTHiUM0XiD3	i would be glad to help tho in any way i can
21:20:00	gevaerts	rwcr: I think the infrastructure is solid enough for MTP (and probably ethernet). The only thing really missing would be support for choosing at runtime what driver to load
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21:20:16	BigBambi	LiTHiUM0XiD3: Best get learning those C skills then - that is really the only way to help
21:20:41	taylor_	rwcr: Actually, not that I remember, I do think I remember you supplying iPL with some helpful code. I think working on the USB interface is a really good idea.
21:20:45	taylor_	*now
21:21:00	*	domonoky doesnt know if Ethernet-over-USB is really helpfull, its just "cool". i Think MTP and USB audio would be more helpfull :-)
21:21:08	scorche	taylor_: hush
21:21:34	domonoky	s/helpfull/useful
21:21:50	gevaerts	rwcr: I suspect that if we have a USB ethernet implementation with widely available drivers (I don't know how well standard CDC is supported by OSes), it should be easy to setup
21:22:04	rwcr	gevaerts: That's good - so it'd be mostly a matter of writing the appropriate drivers and figuring out good ways of integrating them.
21:22:17	gevaerts	yes
21:22:23	LiTHiUM0XiD3	i plan to get brushin up on my C... just want to know if anybody else is or has done any work regardin the PMP -1xx
21:22:27	pixelma	Unhelpful: tested FS #9992 a bit on both my Ondio and c200. On the c200 controls seem to work nicely now and feel intuitive, on the Ondio the long "off" was a bit weird. Since the long "power" on c200 doesn't bother me, I'm assuming this is because a short "off" on the Ondio does nothing (in contrast to short "power" on c200)
21:22:38	pixelma	it either feels unresponsive or uncomfortable since you don't know when the hard poweroff kicks in. I'd try a short "off" on the Ondio
21:22:43	rwcr	taylor_: Thanks :-) I'm hoping to do something close to the hardware, since I've already done quite a bit in terms of user-interface media player stuff and I'm a bit burned out on that side of things.
21:22:45	scorche	LiTHiUM0XiD3: you can search the wiki and the forums to find that out
21:23:04	BigBambi	LiTHiUM0XiD3: Not that I remember - check out the wiki and New Ports forum
21:23:07	LiTHiUM0XiD3	i prolly shoulda done that lolz
21:23:20	LiTHiUM0XiD3	thing is... i see soo much potential
21:23:29	taylor_	rwcr: Yeah, its always good to change it up once in a while ;)
21:23:38	LiTHiUM0XiD3	the PMP 1xx from what ive been readin is the perfect platform to work with..
21:23:38	scorche	LiTHiUM0XiD3: and please use real words in here as the guidelines linked in the topic say...
21:24:03	LiTHiUM0XiD3	yeah man no worries... i appoligize... im used to typin IM heh
21:24:33	rwcr	Is there anything you'd like me to hash out with you before typing up a proposal, to make sure I'm not wasting time with back-and-forths?
21:24:40	gevaerts	have you looked into USB before?
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21:25:55	BigBambi	gevaerts: Which class is it that needs to be done to allow proper charging on Windows?
21:26:06	pixelma	Unhelpful: just saw in the code that a short "off" should actually do something, didn't discover it while using pf
21:26:17	rwcr	Very briefly, in the context of writing a driver from scratch (hobbyist OS type thing). I have a general idea of the structure of USB communications, but at the time I was discouraged by how complicated it was.
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21:26:25	gevaerts	BigBambi: the consensus on that is HID, but any class that's non-intrusive works
21:26:31	rwcr	With some basic infrastructure already in place I think I'd be able to handle it much better.
21:27:03	*	domonoky would really like usb audio. then you could use the dap the hear fm-radio on you pc :-)
21:27:04	BigBambi	gevaerts: I'd put that high up the list then :)
21:27:19	taylor_	rwcr: I'm guessing then, it would be much easier to look at the usb code for Rockbox already, and then add to it?
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21:27:47	gevaerts	Have a look at the files in firmware/usbstack. usb_serial.c basically implements the minimum you can get away with and still call it a real driver
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21:27:56	rwcr	taylor_: That's what I'm figuring.
21:28:11	domonoky	taylor_: could you please stop guessing things, if you dont know the details ? :-)
21:28:12	rwcr	And I'll take a look, gevaerts.
21:28:37	gevaerts	USB audio is possible, but that requires a bit of low-level driver as well.
21:28:56	rwcr	I'm assuming it'd be pretty easy to find the protocol-level docs for whatever device class I wind up doing (seems like MTP would be the best one to start with).
21:29:11	rwcr	Could I propose one device class, and then if it doesn't take me the whole summer to finish it, work on others?
21:29:16	gevaerts	have a look at http://www.usb.org/developers/devclass_docs
21:29:27	gevaerts	rwcr: that's my idea, yes.
21:29:35	BigBambi	rwcr: yep
21:29:41	rwcr	That looks great - thanks for the link!
21:30:07	gevaerts	Maybe HID would be a good one to start with
21:30:23	BigBambi	\o/
21:30:25	scorche	rwcr: also, as i am not sure how useful USB-ethernet would be, i would like to see something more along the lines of mtp, usb-audio, HID, etc =)
21:30:43	rwcr	gevaerts: That's true, it's simpler and has a bit of "cool" factor as well (DAP as input device).
21:31:02	rwcr	scorche: Yeah, that's what I'm gathering - I wouldn't do USB-ethernet before the more useful alternatives.
21:31:07	rasher	rwcr: pluss it'll enable us to do a charging-only connection properly on windows
21:31:18	BigBambi	rwcr: HID > mtp > usb-audio for me :)
21:31:22	rwcr	This is why I wanted to discuss the idea, to see which choices would be most useful.
21:31:29	rwcr	rasher: Ah, I didn't realize it'd be useful for that - that's a good point.
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21:33:22	gevaerts	Sounds like a useful ordering. I wouldn't start out with audio, as it may provide nice hardware-related hurdles. HID and MTP should be "just" software
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21:33:41	rwcr	Starting with HID sounds good, with a goal for the summer of HID + MTP, and USB-audio if I have the time for it.
21:33:50	rwcr	Does that fit with what you're looking for?
21:34:12	*	JdGordon\|\| wonders how much work tagcache will have to play nice with mtp
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21:34:34	gevaerts	JdGordon\|\|: can you give one file to tagcache to look at?
21:34:40	rasher	JdGordon\|\|: none, I'd expect. Unless you mean updating the db while transferring?
21:34:41	JdGordon\|\|	no idea
21:34:50	gevaerts	rwcr: I think so, yes
21:35:07	rasher	rwcr: Maybe you should also give runtime configuring of usb mode a thought
21:35:30	casainho	hello :-) −− I uploaded the Lyre bootloader patch: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/10045 −− I hope is all ok.
21:36:09	rwcr	rasher: Good point - it seems like that'd be a prerequisite for my contribs being useful anyway.
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21:36:33	rwcr	Maybe a pop-up on the device screen that asks the user to pick what they want the device to be, or something similar.
21:36:39	rasher	In the long run, yes. But I imagine the two things can be done more or less independently?
21:37:12	BigBambi	rwcr: Could just be a setting I would think
21:37:18	BigBambi	rwcr: I wouldn't want to be asked on every boot
21:37:24	rwcr	Should be. While I'm working on the drivers I can just make the driver I'm working on the default.
21:37:36	rasher	BigBambi: I'd imagine the question coming up on connect?
21:37:51	gevaerts	I think it needs to be a normal setting. Asking the user on plugin means long waiting times during enumeration and will give issues
21:37:58	BigBambi	rasher: I wouldn't want to be asked on every connect either
21:38:00	rwcr	BigBambi: Yeah, that's probably a better idea. "Act as: hard disk/media player/input device/speakers"
21:38:05	rasher	Both ways have pros/cons
21:38:15	taylor_	rwcr: I like the idea of the setting. Or, you could do something "Do not ask again" choice.
21:38:19	rwcr	And if the user hasn't set it yet, a notice on connect that it's currently acting as X and they can change it if they want.
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21:38:32	rwcr	That would avoid the enumeration wait-time issues.
21:38:35	BigBambi	Maybe a button press? i.e. just plug for MSC, menu for charging, play for MTP etc?
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21:39:31	BigBambi	rwcr: Either way, the way to chose between modes is minor detail I think
21:39:43	rwcr	Yeah, best to get the driver support first.
21:39:53	gevaerts	Configuration should be a day's work or so...
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21:43:54	BigBambi	rwcr: Just speaking personally I would very much like to see this done :)
21:44:07	*	gevaerts agrees, but he may be biased
21:45:24	rwcr	Thanks - I'm hoping to get the chance to do it!
21:46:09	gevaerts	well, someone has to do it :)
21:46:44	taylor_	rwcr: Good luck, keep us updated ;)
21:47:47	rwcr	I will. :-)
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21:49:05	evilnick	http://www.b3ta.com/questions/god/post390954
21:50:14	taylor_	evilnick: ?
21:50:40	evilnick	Sorry all, wrong channel
21:50:50	taylor_	I think you meant to post in community :)
21:50:52	taylor_	Oh, ok!
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21:56:06	rewtstyle	hey guys. anyone here built FS #8806 - MikMod MOD, S3M, IT, XM player on a linux box? im no expert, but it kinda feels like some files the patch(es) want to alter just dont exist in the current svn tree
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21:58:28	evilnick	rewtstyle: Can you build Rockbox without the patch?
22:00
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22:02:21	rewtstyle	evilnick yep, that works just fine. (building against arm). im not saying that the files are actually missing, but that maybe the source tree has been reorganized or whatever has happened there :)
22:03:11	evilnick	Are you using the latest patch from the comments on that task?
22:04:15	rewtstyle	ive tried different things, and among them the patch posted on 12 feb.
22:04:37		Quit jaykay (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:05:57	evilnick	The only other thing that I'd try then is to get the svn from the 12th Feb and try that
22:06:18	rewtstyle	yea ill check that out, thx :)
22:07:09	evilnick	Best of luck ;)
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22:09:40	IuDeX	I have one question. Can we access second GB on v1 sansa AMS? I want to compile the RB.
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22:12:46	IuDeX	Can anybody answer me?
22:13:15	taylor_	IuDeX: woah, hold on! :) Im guessing you mean "rockbox" from 'RB'?
22:13:28	evilnick	IuDeX: Sansa are either v1 or AMS I thought? Is it the e-series or the c-series?
22:13:34		Quit low_light ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
22:14:06	Bagder	there are v1s and v2s of the amses
22:14:29	IuDeX	taylor_: Yes. "RB" is "rockbox"
22:14:48	taylor_	IuDeX: haha. Ok, just wanted to clarify.
22:15:06	Bagder	IuDeX: I believe that stuff is still in a patch
22:15:16	IuDeX	In the Sansa AMS is the Clip. There are 2 versions of this. Clipv1 and Clipv2. :)
22:15:49	taylor_	v2 sansas are the fuze
22:15:51	taylor_	etc
22:16:07	gevaerts	taylor_: no
22:16:08	Bagder	taylor_: he's right
22:16:10	ender`	clip v2 is the 8GB version, right?
22:16:11	IuDeX	taylor_: so what about Clip v1 and v2?
22:16:17	evilnick	Bagder: Ah, hence the name change. V2V1 and V2V2 would be more confusing!
22:16:19	gevaerts	Please don't talk about things you know nothing about
22:16:43	Bagder	evilnick: we thought so yes... :-)
22:17:19	taylor_	Sorry, I was going by this: "v2 Fuze" when I looked it up.
22:17:22	taylor_	http://daniel.haxx.se/sansa/ams.html
22:17:39	Bagder	yes, there's a v1 fuze and a v2 fuze
22:17:52	Bagder	both being AMS
22:18:00	IuDeX	So can we access second GB or not? :)
22:18:06	Bagder	IuDeX: I believe that stuff is still in a patch
22:18:17	Bagder	in the patch tracker
22:18:32	Bagder	so yes, but not with the svn code
22:18:50	IuDeX	Bagder: ok thanks ;)
22:19:05		Quit ibseco (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
22:19:22	IuDeX	So I have to wait for svn.
22:19:34	taylor_	No
22:19:42	taylor_	you could compile it in with the SVN code
22:22:39	IuDeX	ok
22:22:46	IuDeX	thanks all for help
22:22:53	IuDeX	bye :)
22:22:55		Quit IuDeX ("CGI:IRC")
22:26:07	taylor_	yep. np
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22:36:38	rasher	Bagder: how long does building a set of manuals take?
22:37:11	Bagder	not a very long time, perhaps 20 minutes or so
22:37:39		Quit jaykay_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:37:42	rasher	Ah, that's a bit too long to build on all changes in /manual/ I guess
22:38:05	Bagder	unless we do it distributed! ;-)
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22:40:25	sdubois92	I am getting the "database not ready" message, but it is working. I just want to start the database over. I have database_1.tcd all the way to 8 and idx.tcd. get rid of them all?
22:41:10	archivator	I am too tired to post an FS entry at the moment, so if anyone would like to see a pre-pre-pre-alpha version of my frequency analyzer work (it's a mess, the graph doesn't update regularly and is hardly usable at all), see here: http://pastebin.com/m6ec48404 Tested only on ipodvideo sim. It's not much but it's a start...
22:42:10		Quit evilnick ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
22:44:38	BigBambi	sdubois92: yes, delete all .tcd files
22:44:46	n1s	Bagder: what do you think of some kind of notification of a failed manual build, it has happened a couple of times and is usually not noticed until much later
22:44:59	n1s	s/,/?/
22:45:10	Bagder	we should have that yes
22:45:25	Bagder	at least in the daily manual builds
22:45:35	BigBambi	It would be very handy
22:49:35	Bagder	nice activity in the installer "button" thread I must say
22:53:36	BigBambi	BigBambi: Yes, anything to steer people at RBUtil is a good thing IMO
22:53:45	BigBambi	er, Bagder
22:53:57	Bagder	indeed!
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23:00
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23:20:10	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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23:20:28	flyback	so what's a inexpensive decent music player I can throw rockbox on
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23:30:54	cxo	Hello... I'm in the market for a PMP.
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23:33:20	cxo	Read the buyers guide, and Hmmm'd a lot. I basically want a Zune with Linux on it. But then after more reading, and more research, I realised that was like asking for 7 virgins after I die
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23:33:51	gevaerts	if you want linux, you're in the wrong channel
23:34:18	cxo	s/Linux/Open Source OS
23:35:33	gevaerts	cxo: have a look at http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/BuyersGuide
23:36:10	cxo	I read that (didnt i say that?)
23:36:10	linuxstb	Rockbox is focused on being an audio player (although it does have a basic, mpeg-1 or mpeg-2 only video player). Maybe not ideal if you're looking for a PMP
23:36:20	cxo	Oh I see
23:36:25	gevaerts	ah yes you did. Sorry
23:36:58	cxo	What was that project that made Linux kernels for PDAs?
23:37:06	*	cxo forgets what its called
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23:37:19	BigBambi	Off-topic?
23:37:41	cxo	Sorry
23:40:19	linuxstb	cxo: But the Gigabeat S runs Rockbox (it's not quite reached "supported" status though), and that's basically a Zune minus the wifi.
23:41:48	cxo	Not bad
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23:44:50	cxo	Wifi is very hot though
23:46:51	gevaerts	yes. We prefer cool players :)
23:49:18		Quit itcheg (Client Quit)
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23:56:40	cxo	hmm this Onda one isnt bad
23:56:57		Quit MethoS (Remote closed the connection)
23:57:35		Quit ender` (" I just found out what Alt+F4 does.")

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