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#rockbox log for 2009-03-30

00:00:33kugelbut generally, I'm rather against this, too
00:00:48n1sJdGordon: target with little ram, enable cuesheet and whatnot, high setting on max files in browser, you want to load your 2MB theme but setting that setting to 2MB would require more ram than the size of the audio buffer
00:01:27JdGordonn1s: there would obviously need to be realistic limits
00:02:14kugelrasher: so, the confirmation email will never come to me, is my theme upload already discarded?
00:02:42n1sJdGordon: so how useful is this setting really? it sounds to me like it is not worth the complexity and additional surprises in behaviour to save a few hundred K of ram for some users
00:03:35rasherkugel: which theme have you uploaded? (which screen size)
00:03:45JdGordonn1s: the setting is a by-product of the patch... the main difference is giving themers more options for customizability.. i.e more images, more viewports, more everything if they want it without effecting everyone
00:03:47n1salso i dont' base this off of my usage, i *never* change themes and use about 10% of the features of rockbox at all
00:04:27JdGordonright now if someone wants a bigger image buffer we tell them no because we dont want to waste more ram for everyone when it might only be a gain for a few users
00:04:44n1sJdGordon: well my opinion is that having this setting sounds like a bad idea
00:04:45kugelrasher: blacknblue glass, 176x220. I've uploaded it again (successfully now)
00:05:10rasherkugel: I notice it's two different emails - are you sure you got it right?
00:05:15n1si'd like it much more if it could be done in some kind of automatic way
00:05:27JdGordonok, so lets say it could be...
00:05:39JdGordonthe patch is 99% removing hard limits in the WPS
00:05:40 Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection)
00:05:53kugelrasher: yes, now. I was having trouble with the renaming of my uni and the new emails
00:06:01kugelthe @student. one is the correct one
00:06:19n1sJdGordon: it's mainly the setting bit im against and the possible rebooting
00:06:24 Join Barahir [0] (n=jonathan@Ze313.z.pppool.de)
00:06:40n1sthe rest of what the patch does sounds like a real improvement
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00:06:48 Part domonoky
00:07:01rasherkugel: alright
00:07:11*kugel thinks the patch is useful without setting too
00:07:17 Quit moredhel (Client Quit)
00:07:24*JdGordon would actually like some code review also....
00:07:29JdGordonand world peace :p
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00:08:13JdGordonn1s: if the only objections is on the setting then I'm wondering how much that would be a problem? I mean we can make settings very visible.. and not at all
00:08:25*gevaerts thinks that we need to think hard about all these limit settings. They're not user friendly, and they fundamentally can't be
00:08:56*n1s agrees with gevaerts
00:09:24JdGordonthe laternative is forcing a one size fits all aproach wich I would be hugley against
00:09:39kugelthe patch would still be an improvement
00:09:46gevaertsJdGordon: I'm certainly not asking for that. It doesn't work either
00:10:11JdGordonwell... there isnt much grey area here...
00:10:35gevaertsEspecially on lowmem targets you have to tweak settings for your exact situation. That's *bad*
00:10:38*kugel demands configurable rockbox buffer :p
00:10:41kugelusb buffer*
00:10:51*JdGordon slaps kugel
00:10:55JdGordonthat doesnt even make sense
00:10:56n1sJdGordon: to me the real solution is to implement the reallocation without reboot and tell the user that playback needs to restart if he loads a bigger theme
00:11:05amiconngevaerts: The browser limit setting can't be avoided afaics. Same for the playlist limit
00:11:13kugelno, actually I demand a optional second wps screenshot for the theme site
00:11:28JdGordonn1s: I had a look into doing the realocation thing... its going to be nasty
00:11:32amiconnOther things could be done using the realloc idea (which would only require a playback stop + restart)
00:11:37kugelrasher: could that be done? A number of themes have different wps's depending on the existence of album art
00:11:45gevaertsamiconn: they have to be there somehow, I agree. But we need to think about how we can make things easier for users
00:12:07JdGordonmost users ignore/dont know about them anyway
00:12:14kugelhm, the main menu screen doesn't even show yet
00:12:20rasherkugel: you mean a third?
00:12:30rasherkugel: I know.. someone needs to update the templates.
00:12:34kugelthird screenshot yes, a second wps one
00:13:53kugelcould also be used for some alternative "while hold layout" or fancy volume change graphics
00:13:55gevaertsOne possible solution could be a combination of (a) clean handling of hitting the limits (i.e. tell the user what's going on), and (b) a plugin that scans the disk and proposes a set of settings that are suited for this particular situation
00:14:05JdGordonn1s: btw, I think restarting playback is almost as bad as just rebooting anyway
00:14:20kugelnot at all
00:14:33gevaertsThis settings-guessing could also be done by rbutil
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00:15:02n1sJdGordon: i disagree
00:15:13JdGordonwe *could* do a first run plugin, but it wont stay up to date for very long so it seems like a bad idea
00:15:25kugeln1s: I wouldn't even tell the user to restart playback. just do it, like it's already done when loading a wps which wants different album art sizes
00:16:33JdGordonor use the "restarting playback" splash like the eq does
00:16:41JdGordoni tihnk its the eq... or crossfade
00:16:47JdGordonone of those wierd settings
00:16:51kugelhardly noticeable on a flash target. probably noticeable on hdd if the disk isn't already spinning (which it is when loading a wps)
00:17:02gevaerts*if* rbutil is used to install themes, it can look at all installed themes for this wps setting at least. Restarting playback after USB needs to be done *anyway*
00:17:31 Quit cr08 ()
00:18:13gevaertsCould the database update scan check things like size of directories?
00:18:15JdGordongevaerts: how will that help? load every wps and see how much ram it needs? the big issue if the images... not the tokens
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00:18:54gevaertsJdGordon: a modified checkwps could do that, and actually mark the size needed in the wps
00:19:14gevaertsThen rbutil just has to look at those numbers
00:19:15amiconngevaerts: That won't help anything if one doesn't use the database
00:19:17kugelthe wps ram needs can estimated by summing the filesize of the images and wps file itself, can't it?
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00:20:06amiconnkugel: Not at all
00:20:14gevaertsamiconn: true, but for those who do use it it could be a good way to do this.
00:20:21amiconnThe image filesize differs from the loaded size
00:20:51amiconnIt can differ fundamentally, in either direction
00:21:10JdGordongevaerts: thats a cyclic dependancy..... the database uses the directory max size setting to scan the disk
00:21:34***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:21:36amiconnThe database isn't limited by that setting
00:21:47*gevaerts just doesn't want to get stuck in a mindset where ram usage settings are accepted without thinking
00:21:50amiconnHmm, perhaps it is, for the scan part
00:22:18JdGordonhmm.. actually you may be right... which means its limited by the MAX_OPEN_DIRS defien which is even worse
00:22:25amiconnFor display it isn't. This is possible because the db entries are already sorted
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00:22:54JdGordonis the general consesus, yes good idea but the setting could be a problem which we will deal with later if needed?
00:23:19*kugel can agree with it
00:23:30*n1s has stated his opinion
00:24:48gevaertsI like the idea, and I think that even with a fixed limit it's an improvement
00:24:53amiconnkugel: It would be possible to calculate the loaded bitmap size without actually loading it. It would mean checking every header - potentially hundreds of files, i.e. a bad idea
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00:30:02PSPdemonwhen building the e200v2 bootloader do i have to use the OF that matches the device for when i have to use "makeamsboot"
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00:31:28JdGordonyou dont have to do anything you dont want to...
00:31:29gevaertsuhm, why do you think it needs that file?
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00:33:06PSPdemonjust what i was reading on the wiki
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00:33:17PSPdemonmight have misread it ( i ussualy do lol )
00:33:52gevaertsI mean, yes it needs the OF, but why do you think it needs it?
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00:37:16PSPdemonwell i guess my question is wether or not you need to use the same version of as the device or should it be greater?
00:38:12gevaertsah ok. It has to match the device of course, but it can be any version. You'll end up running that version though
00:38:29PSPdemonahh
00:38:29PSPdemonthanks
00:38:34gevaertsI thought you meant whether it could be another device, like the clip or so
00:38:43PSPdemonlol
00:38:52kugelYes, you need the OF with suits your player, but the exact version doesn't have to match with the installed one
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00:39:17kugelyou're overwriting the installed one anyway, so
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00:40:59PSPdemonah...was a little worried that it would matter but thanks for clearing that up
00:40:59PSPdemon:)
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00:44:16PSPdemonthe only other question i have is if there is ( and there should be a way ) to dump the current firmware
00:44:20PSPdemon( on the device )
00:45:05kugelsure
00:45:10 Quit bmbl ("Woah!")
00:45:21kugeldd the firmware partition (if you can call it partition)
00:45:42PSPdemonanything on the wiki? ( just curious )
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01:00
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01:00:35saratogastripwax: one question about your patch
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01:01:09stripwaxsure −− which one (9882 or the Tremolo one)
01:01:24saratogashouldn't the ASMed functions in bitwiseARM.s be applicable?
01:01:51stripwax'applicable' ?
01:02:26saratogai don't really understand how the bitwise stuff in vorbis works, but it looks like theres ASM versions of some of the c functions you included
01:02:32saratogathough maybe i'm misunderstanding
01:02:48stripwaxTalking about the Tremolo patch? Yes, it should be using these.
01:03:23saratogafor instance you've included a c version of "oggpack_adv" but not the ASM version
01:03:23stripwaxis it not? ARM_LITTLE_ENDIAN should be defined, so we don't compile the c
01:04:21stripwaxNot sure what you mean by 'included' −− bitwiseARM.S is compiled in the makefile
01:04:46saratogaits not in your patch
01:05:09saratogaoh i need to download it seperately
01:05:18saratogasorry I misunderstood what you had posted
01:05:19stripwaxsorry - what isn't in the patch? bitwiseARM.S? It's in a separate attachment in the FS
01:05:24stripwaxyep
01:05:40stripwaxactually, I couldn't work out how to add it to the same .patch file! Do you know?
01:06:26saratogasvn add bitwiseARM.s
01:06:32saratogathen svn diff will pick it up
01:07:07stripwaxwow - didn't know you could do that. thought svn add would require commit rights or something like that . Thanks!
01:08:44 Quit flydutch ("/* empty */")
01:08:51saratogado you have commit access?
01:09:19stripwaxno
01:09:47saratogahmm maybe that can be fixed
01:09:58saratogabut in the meantime all that prevents you from running is "svn commit"
01:10:03saratogaeverything else should work I think
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01:10:45saratogastripwax: do you have any idea why theres such a speed hit using the ASM functions? i'm quite surprised
01:11:06saratogathe benchmarks I saw for tremolo made it look quite fast and the author has obviously put a lot of effort into optimization
01:11:47stripwaxI don't think there's a speed *hit* using the ASM functions ; I think backing out the optimisation that rockbox devs added to svn, in order for me to patch in the tremolo stuff, takes out a good chunk of the current svn performance
01:12:17stripwaxin other words, I think rockbox svn's huffman decode optimisation is just better than the Tremolo bitwise optimisation.
01:12:59stripwaxDo you have benchmarks that compare Tremolo and rockbox on any arm cpu?
01:13:15saratogaunfortunately all I've seen are for Intel StrongARM
01:13:41saratogawhich is sort of half way between ARM7 and ARM9
01:14:05saratogaif i remember correctly
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01:19:24stripwaxhm, wonder if the benchmarks you saw would be comparable to test_codec in any way. would be nice to have some kind of apples-to-apples comparison. rockbox vorbis is also quite fast - shoe-horning some of Tremolo in could indeed make things worse in some cases
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01:41:35saratogastripwax: yes I think we are about as fast if not faster, but the optimizations in the two codecs are quite different so hopefully some of them can be used in rockbox
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01:49:17stripwaxHopefully. I'm off now- both patches uptodate now, but still somewhat disappointing results
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01:57:27kugelone one with a h300 and remote here?
01:57:36kugelor x5 + remote
02:00
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02:16:24yyy3hello everyone
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02:16:55yyy3can someone help me ? i can't find the settings to show musics by filenames instead of tags
02:18:49kugelyyy3: use the file browser?
02:19:35yyy3it won't read inside music folder
02:21:36***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:22:01scorchewhat does it do instead?
02:22:24scorchei assume you have a sansa are are referring literally to the "music" folder?
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02:23:54yyy3yes
02:23:59scorchethe sansa firmware hides the music folder for some silly reason...either change your rockbox view settings so that you can view hidden foders or name your music folder something else
02:24:28kugelyyy3: a) you unhide it always after using the OF, or you b) set rockbox to show all files
02:24:42kugelor c) put your music into another folder
02:25:24yyy3ok thanks guys
02:25:25kugel(d) get rid of the OF and use rockbox usb, so that the of doesn't get the chance to re-hide it)
02:25:45yyy3i just renamed my folder
02:25:48yyy3to mp3
02:25:51yyy3and it works fine
02:26:00kugelfine. the of will read that folder too
02:26:27kugelbut I think wmp (in case you use this) always sync's into the music folder, I might be wrong though
02:26:58yyy3i use msc mode
02:27:33yyy3screw wmp ;)
02:28:03yyy3ok i'm off to bed guys its like 2:30 am here
02:28:08yyy3have a good day and thanks again
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02:35:33PSPdemonif i may ask
02:36:07PSPdemonit seems like plugins that use bitmaps ( or bitmaps in general ) dependencies are being dropped when i compile the e200v2 builds
02:36:13PSPdemonis that suppose to happen?
02:36:52PSPdemonexample: BMP2RB minesweeper_tiles.16x16x24.bmp
02:36:52PSPdemonCC apps/plugins/bitmaps/native/minesweeper_tiles.16x16x24.c
02:36:52PSPdemonmake: Circular /home/pspdemon/Documents/rockbox-builds/rockbox-20571/apps/plugins/bitmaps/native/pegbox_menu_top.176x46x16.o <- /home/pspdemon/Documents/rockbox-builds/rockbox-20571/apps/plugins/bitmaps/libpluginbitmaps.a dependency dropped.
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03:24:09kugeljhMikeS: ping
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03:37:12jhMikeSkugel: sir
03:39:31kugeljhMikeS: can I insert something into button_queue, and retrieve it with button_get?
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03:40:09kugelI suddenly noticed that what I did for fs#8523 can't work
03:40:53jhMikeSwhat's the problem exactly?
03:41:59kugelI tried to post ACTION_REDRAW, and do something if button == ACTION_REDRAW in the loop. but this "button" is actually an action (which I just realized), so I cannot just queue_post
03:44:18jhMikeSI know SYS messages won't be altered by the action system
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03:44:58kugelI just tried to do the same as mpegplayer, but I didn't release the difference between get_action() and button_get_w_tmo()
03:45:02jhMikeSif you post actions to the queue, it probably won't work too well
03:45:21kugelthis "button = get_action()" confused me
03:45:51kugelI think I don't actually need to post anything, I could just call the redraw function directly in the hook
03:46:17jhMikeSthere really should be a general way of posting private messages into the button queue that the action system will ignore
03:46:52jhMikeSpossibly if threading won't be an issue
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03:50:31kugeljhMikeS: You think I should use/create a sys_event?
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03:54:57jhMikeShmmm...if there is one for that purpose, it should probably be "standard". I once considered broadcasting something but it never felt right to do that.
03:57:38jhMikeSof course just because there's a sys message doesn't mean it has to be one that's broadcast. Anyway, I see no alternative to pass events into the button queue without being processed by action code.
03:58:39kugelI think I can use BUTTON_NONE for this purpose (what the wps does at button_none is sufficient), but I'm not sure if I get around the timeout if I post that
03:58:51kugelseems not
04:00
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04:03:54kugeljhMikeS: is that true?
04:05:01jhMikeSit would think it's a timeout event
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04:07:52kugeluhm, sys_event doesn't work well
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04:10:11jhMikeSit should be received unaltered so that doesn't seem right
04:11:32jhMikeSthe WPS uses BUTTON_NONE for updates anyway I take it?
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04:15:38kugeljhMikeS: yes
04:16:04kugelthat's why I was wondering if I can post BUTTON_NONE, but without waiting for the timeout
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04:17:38kugeluhm, the wps kinda freezes if I post a sys_event
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04:18:03jhMikeSthe update_track variable makes it do a full redraw?
04:18:38jhMikeSdefault_event_handler must not ignore things it doesn't understand (if you didn't trap the sys event already)
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04:20:27kugelhm well
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04:21:39kugeljhMikeS: not a full one, only non-static
04:22:00kugela full one if the track changed in the meantime
04:22:41kugelI'd use BUTTON_NONE, but it doesn't seem to kick me out of the timeout
04:23:37kugelstill freeze
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04:24:59*jhMikeS gets the WTFs
04:25:15kugel:P
04:25:19kugel:? *
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04:32:34kugeljhMikeS: thanks for thelp. It doesn't quite work yet, and I'm too tired to continue now, but this is what I have and what freezes upon turning the lcd off http://pastie.org/431007
04:32:46jhMikeSI'm not really seeing that there should be an issue based on SVN itself
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04:43:55kugeljhMikeS: plugin in usb and powering off still works though (the other two sys_events covered by the wps loop)
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04:47:13kugeljhMikeS: interesting, removing the SYS_LCD_ACTIVATED case (and this letting it be handled in the default case) seems to work fine
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04:51:42PSPdemonhmmm
04:51:48PSPdemonno answer to my question so far :/
04:52:18PSPdemonon the e200v2 builds the bitmaps dependencies are dropped.... is that suppose to happen?
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05:06:47jhMikeSkugel: It should probably be a one-shot as well registered when the lcd is first found to be inactive
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05:09:56kugeljhMikeS: hm? I'm only registering the hook, which is only called once
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05:10:40kugelanyway, I'm off. good night
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05:17:29TBOL3Hello, I have created an account on Twiki, and would like to know if I can use it to make the quickstart page on rockbox I've wanted to make for about a week now.
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05:36:39PSPdemon...
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05:39:26JdGordonTBOL3: whats your wiki account?
05:39:39krazykitPSPdemon, keep in mind it's the middle of the night in europe. an answer may not come quickly, and many read the irc logs, so it probably won't be missed (or bring it up in the development thread?)
05:40:02PSPdemonkrazykit, thanks
05:40:18PSPdemoni did ask it though quit a bit earlier but thats fine :P
05:40:45PSPdemonalso there seems to be a problem with registering so i CAN report bugs
05:40:59PSPdemonive tried 2x to register and can never get on]
05:41:24PSPdemonone time i didnt get a confirmation email the other time it wouldnt let me do anything :/
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05:50:23TBOL3LeifAndersen
05:50:49TBOL3T'is ok, I'm in no rush.
05:51:31JdGordondone, im pretty sure there is a quick start guide somewhere you might like to add to instead of makeing a new one
06:00
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06:04:42TBOL3Yup there is one, but the guide is basically just a page saying THIS IS AN OLD PAGE, GO USE THE MANUEL!
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06:15:56JdGordonTBOL3: yep, i've wanted a generic quick start thing for a while also.. but im way to lazy to do it :)
06:16:17JdGordonthe manual is way to long to get people to actually contemplate reading unless they really get stuck
06:16:30JdGordonand thats of course only after being yelled at on the forums to go look at it
06:20:55TBOL3JdGordon: Thank you so much, it seemed like most of the other devs hated the idea (the best opinion was to do whatever, just don't kill our site). This gives me hope that it might actually be used. :)
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06:30:57ManasviI am currently in the second year of my engg from india.I have earlier made an autonomous fire extinguisher and am working on neural networks these days covering electronics as well as coding concepts.Can u tell me a bit more on what exactly are your priorities for gsoc applicants
06:32:08scorcheManasvi: have you read the page on the GSoC site about student advice?
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06:54:14*JdGordon wishes the people who maintain flac.codec were awake :/
06:55:16JdGordondoes it really need 2 yield() calls in its main loop? the one before ci->pcmbuf_....() looks dangerous in that during that yield the codec could be told to stop playing but it is ignored untill the loop starts again
06:59:09JdGordonaaaaahhh..... dangerous ci->yield()'s is all the codecs
06:59:41jhMikeSit's not dangerous but it looks unneeded since pcmbuf_insert will in all likelyhood yield plenty
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07:00:38JdGordonim not worried about yielding too many times, im woried that during that yield playback will tell the codec to change tracks which causes problems
07:00:40jhMikeSwhere the yields are shouldn't really define dangerous or safe anyway, not unless there's a bug
07:01:26JdGordonif ci->stop_codec or ci->next_track become !0 then the codec should stop staright away shouldnt it?
07:01:33jhMikeSit won't change tracks until it reads the variable and does the change in which case it'll be waited upon until it has changed
07:02:12jhMikeSas quickly as possible but everything should be valid until it acks that it's done what its told
07:02:32JdGordonso I should not zero out the id3 sturct so early in playback?
07:02:46jhMikeSthe pcmbuf_insert _will_ yield itself at least one time
07:03:27jhMikeSnever rip the data away from the codec until you know that it's not decoding
07:04:57JdGordonright
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07:11:38jhMikeSwhat really has be wondering is line 431 in flac.c. shouldn't taginto_ready be checked then id3 accessed?
07:13:24JdGordonah yeah... probably
07:13:52JdGordonpresumably that works because things are fast enough, or offset is just 0 which is ok also?
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07:15:19jhMikeSwho knows, perhaps there's a strange bug noone's picked up on
07:16:11JdGordonpinging linuxstb to have a look....
07:16:34jhMikeSor that gets set to a new value before a track change is requested and it's ok
07:17:06JdGordonthe whole mp3entry gets memset to 0 before each track change
07:20:10*JdGordon wonders if he is chasing a fixed bug
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07:21:08jhMikeSit appears that offset gets set to zero before the codec is allowed to return from ci->request_next_track
07:22:39JdGordonare there any outstanding issues with flac resuming?
07:23:21jhMikeSnot that I know of. there used to be one with stopping while resuming but that was awhile ago
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09:00:08RichieBHi there
09:00:16RichieBCan someone give me write access on the Wiki?
09:00:53RichieBI want to update the status of an iPod accessory
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09:04:59RichieBIs someone awake ?
09:06:39Manasviya
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09:08:45RichieBHiya. Can you give me write access to the Wiki?
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09:13:13advcomp2019RichieB, what is your wiki name?
09:15:38RichieBIt's RichardVanDenBerg
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09:17:26advcomp2019hold on then
09:18:08RichieBOk, thanks
09:19:26advcomp2019there.. hope you do not spam :)
09:20:02RichieBOk, thanks
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11:24:49linuxstbjhMikeS, JdGordon: If you were pinging me to ask about line 431 in flac.c, then you should ping Lear - he added that code.
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12:40:11markungevaerts: is there a standard way for syncing a clock (RTC) over USB?
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12:57:46gevaertsmarkun: not that I know of. There's a patch that partly implements the ipod way on the tracker though
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13:01:37linuxstbgevaerts: Do you have code to do that on the PC side? If so, for what OSes? (I haven't looked for your patch...)
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13:02:45gevaertslinuxstb: there's a gtkpod branch that does it
13:05:36markungevaerts: do you think we should add support for it to RBUtil?
13:07:07gevaertsI don't know. I think RTC sync would be nice to have, and I think that using the same method as at least one other player could be a good idea, but I don't know how easy this will be to implement
13:07:27gevaertsOn linux it's fairly straightforward, but I have no idea about windows and macos
13:08:25GodEateranyone know if it's possible to get replacement sansa cables from somewhere? I appear to have lost mine.
13:08:37*linuxstb should probably post his ipodpatcher patch that fetches the ipod's XML, before it gets lost...
13:09:57linuxstbIt works on Linux and (I think) Windows, but OS X is still TODO... I would guess that code would help with the RTC stuff.
13:10:07LloreanGodEater: I'd imagine Sandisk still sells them at the very least. Don't some of their current players still use them?
13:10:18linuxstbGodEater: I would expect you can find them on ebay
13:10:44linuxstbGodEater: Yes, searching ebay for "sansa cable" shows many
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13:16:26ramgiridharanhi, i want write permission
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13:19:07ramgiridharanhi, i want write permission
13:19:07markunramgiridharan: one moment
13:19:47markunramgiridharan: done
13:21:04ramgiridharanhi, it is not accepting
13:21:11markunno? Strange..
13:22:12markunramgiridharan: I've added you here which is usually all that needs to be done: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/TWikiUsersGroup
13:22:32markunwhat are you trying to do?
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13:23:48ramgiridharani am trying to upload an fmr file.. for chennai region
13:24:55markunyour wiki name is "RamGiridharan" right?
13:25:19markuncan you try again and tell me what kind of error you get?
13:25:53ramgiridharansure
13:25:58ramgiridharanone moment please
13:26:38ramgiridharani am sorry, i did not type the username with correct capitals
13:26:48markunah, ok :)
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13:35:29pixelma"Browse .wps files" <> "Browse Themes" - nice mixture of sentence vs. title case...
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13:53:53Casainhohello :-)
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13:55:07CasainhoI sent to tracker a patch for a new port, the Lyre project. What is the usually, normal time, for it be commited to SVN?
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13:55:41B4gderthere is no "normal" procedure for this, all cases are different
13:55:57B4gderit simply depends on when the committers commit
13:56:45CasainhoB4gder: so, who will commit that patch?
13:56:58GodEaterCasainho, they roll dice ;)
13:57:12Casainhook.
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14:04:26B4gderCasainho: what's the FS# number again?
14:05:14CasainhoB4gder: FS #10045
14:06:14*B4gder takes a look
14:06:14CasainhoI got now more feedback about that patch, so; I assume that is all ok.
14:06:32linuxstbCasainho: BOOTFILE_EXT could simply be "lyre". That's the convention we use for other players (e.g. .iriver, .ipod etc)
14:07:25Casainholinuxstb: ok, I didn't know.
14:07:43B4gderwell, it doesn't have to be perfect already...
14:08:05LloreanThere's a comment in the tracker asking about the license for the code that came from atmel.
14:08:11Lloreanis the license included in the patch somewhere?
14:08:16linuxstb"output" in tools/configure would then be "rockbox.lyre" and a more consistent bootloader name would be "bootloader-lyre_proto1.lyre"
14:09:18CasainhoLlorean: no, since I wrote almost all that file now. I think there should be no problem, right? −− register names are equal but they are the same as on datasheet.
14:10:28LloreanSo no code came from atmel files? Just register names from the datasheet?
14:11:45B4gderbootloader-proto1.lyre seems enough to me
14:12:18CasainhoLlorean: right
14:13:01linuxstbCasainho: What about the other code - e.g. crt0.S? Is that based on atmel code?
14:13:04B4gdertarget_id was wrong as well
14:13:05CasainhoLlorean: well, some comments also
14:14:37LloreanCasainho: Yes, I was going to say, it looks like it's still a lot of their stuff, just reformatted.
14:14:44LloreanTheir license still applies if you've heavily modified their file.
14:15:01Casainholinuxstb: maybe some code on crt0.S, I don't really remember because I worked that code, I put comments on it, etc. But it follows many things used by Atmel... like a C file for some config
14:15:05B4gderCasainho: uh, it doesn't build though
14:15:05linuxstbB4gder: The ipods at least use the convention bootloader-$modelname.ext, and so do (I think) the AMS Sansas - maybe that would be nice to follow?
14:16:03CasainhoLlorean: but, what do you equal? the comments? the registers names?
14:16:04B4gderit just turned so awkwardly long
14:16:41CasainhoB4gder: reallym, don't build? why? what is the error?
14:17:02B4gdermake: *** No rule to make target `/home/daniel/src/rockbox/firmware/target/arm/at91sam/app.lds
14:17:09B4gderthere's no app.lds in the patch
14:17:33linuxstbB4gder: Are you doing a normal or bootloader build?
14:17:36CasainhoB4gder: oh, I thought there was no need for the app.lds.... for the bootloader.
14:17:38B4gdernormal
14:17:47B4gderCasainho: there isn't
14:17:52CasainhoI am doing the bootloader build
14:18:05B4gderso the normal one doesn't work?
14:18:52CasainhoB4gder: yes, probably then the normal don't work. The objective was to make a patch for bootloader, to have the kernel_init() working.
14:19:19B4gderok
14:19:39B4gderstand by for initial commit
14:19:56Casainhoso, what is really missing on that patch?
14:20:47Casainhois that really need to put Atmel license on that header file?
14:21:07B4gderif they can claim any rights on any of the files, then yes
14:21:10linuxstbCasainho: If you've based your code on Atmel's code, then it would be nice to at least say that.
14:21:25B4gderCommitted revision 20574.
14:21:52***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:22:21Casainholinuxstb: I based mainly my knowledge on their code and application notes. How could I do that header file on other way? - I should use another comments?
14:22:31LloreanCasainho: I don't understand your question. If you started with their file, and edited it, it's still under their license. If you wrote a whole new file, from scratch, based on the datasheet, you can license it your way.
14:25:21pixelmathere's still some tiny yellow from the previous commit in the table
14:25:22CasainhoLlorean: well, I created a new file and used their comments and same register names. I couldn't use different register names, but the comments yes, however the comments are also mainly the names of registers,
14:26:30CasainhoLlorean: linuxstb : but I have no problem in put on that file their license. I just would like to understand well this situation. Thanks :-)
14:27:01B4gderpixelma: that's kugel's commit I believe so I wanted to let him have a say on that
14:27:41CasainhoB4gder: thanks :-)
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14:28:22CasainhoLlorean: linuxstb - o next patch I will put that license :-9
14:28:59Casainhoso, for the next patch, what should I do? what code should I add? maybe put LCD working, showing the rockbox logo?
14:29:31linuxstbCasainho: We want sound!
14:29:53Casainholinuxstb: me too ;-)
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14:30:46Casainhobut I were told before that I should commit simple patches, for easily reading, etc
14:31:20Casainhoso, shouldn't I commit another patch untill I have sound?
14:31:40B4gderyou should post patches for all changes you want/need
14:32:33CasainhoB4gder: ok, but, is good idea or not to commit short and simple patches?
14:33:15B4gderCasainho: first you don't commit patches, that's what people with commit access do, then sure you should post separate patches for separate things as far as possible
14:33:15Casainhobecause until now I have bootloader fully working and most part of the firmware... (just audio missing)
14:33:16LloreanCasainho: You can post multiple tasks though.
14:33:56Casainhoah, okok.
14:34:04linuxstbCasainho: A patch to get the LCD working would seem about the right size.
14:34:07B4gderwow, onda broke
14:34:21Casainholinuxstb: ok, thanks. It's clear for me now :-)
14:34:34B4gderthat error looks very strangee
14:35:04B4gdersoap: ping ping
14:35:22*linuxstb blames soap
14:35:35*B4gder seconds that
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14:39:48*kugel is going to commit funman's >2GB fix patch
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14:39:59kugelany complaints that some other guy should do it?
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14:41:08GodEaterthe patch is >2GB ? wow. that's a lot of code.
14:41:10B4gderkugel: that yellow is from your last commit
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14:41:51kugeldoh, haven't noticed
14:41:53*B4gder disables mips from soap's box
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14:43:07kugelGodEater: no, it enables bank switch so that we can access all data on the ams sansas
14:43:21kugelinstead of only 1 on devices with >2GB
14:43:34B4gderkugel: since funman said he's fine with it I see no problems
14:43:42GodEaterkugel, I was kind of joking :)
14:43:57kugelah, fine then :)
14:44:09*GodEater will be worried when the rockbox code base get to >2GB.
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14:44:52GodEaterB4gder, you're Mr. Statistics. How many MB on average does a new target add? Use this to forecase when we'll get to >2GB please :)
14:45:01GodEater*forecast
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14:45:51B4gderthis lyre patch was just under 100K
14:46:35linuxstbkugel: Can't funman commit it?
14:46:37B4gderbut not quite complete of course
14:47:09kugellinuxstb: seems to me he wants someone else to commit, probably because he has some internet problems there (he said he has some, at least)
14:47:41*kugel sees no reason to wait too
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14:47:49*B4gder makes a source tarball just to see how big a fresh unpack is ...
14:48:05linuxstbkugel: "seems to me" ? EIther he's asked for someone else to commit or he hasn't...
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14:48:42kugellinuxstb: "thanks, you have my approval to commit (and to receive the blames if something goes wrong :p)"
14:48:58B4gder122207471 bytes
14:49:05B4gder5101 files, 254 folders
14:50:17B4gderso the new port added 0.08% to the total uncompressed size
14:51:19linuxstbkugel: OK, then go ahead and accept the blame ;)
14:51:52B4gderand 2gb/current code size = 16, so...
14:52:03B4gderwe need about 20000 new ports to reach 2GB! ;-)
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14:52:41LloreanOr one new port with a really, really, really big screen and appropriately scaled up high-res logo.
14:52:48B4gderone port every day will keep us busy for another 54 years until then
14:53:30GodEaterB4gder, that's an unfinished port though
14:53:32GodEaterhow about completed ones ? :)
14:53:35B4gderbut imagine the tower of rockbox we can do!
14:53:40GodEaterhahahaha
14:53:44GodEaterwe could get into orbit :)
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14:56:33*B4gder looks at kugel
14:56:48B4gder1 yellow + 1 fix = ... 2 red!
14:57:54kugeluhh
14:58:57kugelhmm, I didn't add a if. something is weird
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15:02:44lazkahey.. I just tried to run llvm-clang analyzer on rockbox.. had to remove some things because the parser doesn't like all ARM stuff..
15:02:45lazkahttp://www.student.tugraz.at/christoph.reiter/files/rockbox/llvm-clang-test.tar.bz2
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15:03:43lazkait only compiled halfway through.. but it took 2 hours.. found lots of unused code and maybe some bugs.
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15:04:24funmanhi, i expect a phone call from AMS this afternoon to discuss about AS353* datasheets
15:05:39funmanthey want to talk about redistribution of the docs to developers i believe
15:06:14gevaertslazka: at least most of the uninitialised value warnings in firmware/ seem to be bogus
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15:06:35kugelthat #if shouldnt be there at all :(
15:07:10lazkayes.. they said in ther channel that it still isn't 100% combatible to gcc.. I had to comment out some stuff and move some files.
15:07:41gevaertslazka: those are mostly reads from hardware registers, so obviously the code never writes to those
15:07:45lazkalots of noise.. but some things might be useful.. don't know.. if not.. never mind.
15:08:15gevaertssome of it is bound to be useful, it's just a matter of spending time on it :)
15:08:22lazka:)
15:09:39LloreanDo you have a record of all the changes you made though?
15:10:11*gevaerts thinks that this thing needs to learn about assert()
15:11:39gevaertsthe divide by zero errors all occur after an assert(!=0)
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16:00:15 Quit kushal_12_27_200 ("This computer has gone to sleep. Macs are like babies. They need a lot of sleep. :)")
16:05:20soapoh no - my computer tossing build errors is never a good sign.
16:05:35soapThe two times it happened before it was a sign of a failed memory stick.
16:06:18B4gderthis seems to only have happened on the mips build though
16:06:23soapgevaerts: the last changes to FS #1005 before commit, the addition of proper length handling, did this improve performance at all?
16:07:09soapB4gder: I'm running a fat VirtualBox session this morning for the first time in months. Fear is it kicked memory usage up into rarely touched regions.
16:07:17B4gderaha
16:07:18gevaertssoap: you mean in comparison with earlier versions of the patch?
16:07:24soapgevaerts: yes.
16:08:01gevaertssoap: then no. The length handling is needed for correctness. Storage doesn't actually use that value, but e.g. serial does
16:08:17gevaertsThe entire patch does improve performance though
16:08:25soapthanks, gevaerts, I was just curious.
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16:21:54***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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16:31:14*n1s considers to tackle an item on "Mr Someone's" todo list: the strncpy->strlcpy change and was thinking about how to do that in a nice way and wonder if people have comments
16:32:14n1sas i see it 1) find or write a nice fast strlcpy 2) go through all calls to strncpy in the core and adjust them. so far so good
16:33:15n1sbut should plugns be changed too or should strncpy move to the pluginlib?
16:34:01B4gderI think plugins could very well be changed too
16:35:04n1sdoes anyone know of an optimized implementation of strlcpy i could use?
16:35:46kugeln1s: gevaerts mentioned there may some usages of strncpy where strlcpy is inappropriate (well, strncpy is inappriate too, I think he talked about more lowlevel stuff which should use memcpy anyway)
16:36:30n1skugel: yes, i was not planning on just search and replace, every call will need to be checked
16:37:33B4gdern1s: http://doxygen.postgresql.org/strlcpy_8c-source.html
16:37:42B4gderseems to be the version basically used all over, comes from openbsd
16:37:52n1sB4gder: ah, thanks
16:37:54B4gdersome variations have the auto variables as 'register'
16:39:39*kugel would think a version which copies 4byte at once would be faster
16:40:02B4gderperhaps, it depends on how long strings that are copied in general
16:40:37n1skugel: word copies can be done only to and from word aligned adresses on some archs so this will need a bit of extra logic
16:40:43B4gderexactly
16:41:08B4gdereither way, when converted to this function I'm sure it's open for optmizations!
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16:43:31kugelour strcpy.c contains a word-copy-version, but I don't know which we use
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16:46:14n1skugel: yes, i think we use that bersion but it will only do word copies if both adresses are aligned, so assuming random alignment that is only a 1 in 8 chance
16:46:54kugeln1s: it aligns if they're unaligned
16:46:59n1sbut i think i will follow B4gder's line and do the conversion first and worry about this optimization later
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16:47:56kugelno wait, if they're unaligned it just uses char-copy
16:48:01n1syes
16:48:21n1sand i would only be possible to align if they have the same alignment already
16:48:26n1sit*
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16:50:16kugelworrying about optimization is fine. Let's hope we don't forget about it :)
16:50:22kugelworrying later*
16:51:31B4gderI would even argue that doing the optimizations already in the first step would be wrong
16:51:40B4gderiterations is the better way
16:51:58B4gderpremature optimization etc
16:52:53kugelyou also can't know if optimizations are even worth if if you never used a non-optimized one
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16:55:22n1sshoudl i do the _DEFUN _EXFUN weirdness done for the other string functions or just us a regular prototype?
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16:56:13B4gderI can't recall any good reason for that weirdness so use a regular one
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17:26:26reevehi
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17:30:37linuxstbreeve: Welcome.
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17:32:41reevei'm just here because i wanted to know, how to add a feature (in theory) to my mp3-player. onfortunately rockbox isnt available for my mp3player. i want last.fm support, and want to add this feature to it. but dunno where to start
17:33:30linuxstbYour only real option is porting Rockbox to your player - http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/NewPort
17:33:59linuxstbAdding a feature to the existing firmware is probably far harder (and not something we do here).
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17:44:10reeveokay
17:44:16reevethank you linuxstb
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17:59:57BdN3504Why is .mpg missing as a supported filetype in appendix A1?
18:00
18:00:07BdN3504of the manual of course
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18:01:55MTlinuxstb : when extracting the codec, I'm certain I'm not going to use headers such as "mpeg..." , still, compiling without them would most probably fail, isn't there a way around this ?
18:03:19linuxstbMT: I don't understand - what "mpeg..." headers?
18:04:36*linuxstb needs to leave - back in about 10 minutes...
18:04:54MTlinuxstb : #include "mpegvideo.h" for example (mpegvideo_common.h, any mpeg-related header files)
18:04:58BdN3504another thing: on the main page (rockbox.org) when you click on the "manual" link, the "themes" link misses on that page.
18:06:04n1sBdN3504: i suppose no one has added it to the table yet, patches are welcome ;)
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18:08:54BdN3504well, this'll take some time for me. i just begun learning how to handle linux and that latex or whatever is used to write the manual is still lightyears too complicated for me to handle. maybe i'll be able to do this in the very distant future.
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18:09:29rasherBagder: No themes link on http://www.rockbox.org/manual.shtml
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18:21:55***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:22:24linuxstbMT: I still don't understand - what codec are you talking about?
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18:24:28BdN3504hey, could anyone help me create a patch for this? http://pastebin.com/d2e9aa5c7
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18:26:41BdN3504i opened manual\appendix\file_formats.tex and added these two lines. now what do i do with this to make a patch of it? http://pastebin.com/m2cffcfd1
18:27:05LambdaCalculus37BdN3504: Did you check out the source code from SVN?
18:27:34LambdaCalculus37In that case: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WorkingWithPatches
18:29:28kugelhm
18:29:38kugelwhy is the code not in iram as I'm telling it?
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18:30:16linuxstbkugel: I think we need a little more to go on than that...
18:31:11gevaertsMaybe you're not asking it nicely enough?
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18:33:51*kugel got it now
18:35:18kugel"lcd-fuze.c:(.text+0xe0): relocation truncated to fit: R_ARM_PC24 against `.icode'" :(
18:35:44n1skugel: use STATICIRAM (i assume the function is static)
18:35:48lazkagevaerts, clang always falls over such things: http://rafb.net/p/JYaBCU86.html .. do you have an idea what that could be?
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18:36:57gevaertslazka: that's a generated file
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18:38:09kugeln1s: thanks
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18:38:25kugelworked now (according to the .map)
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18:40:05rasherHow's codec performance on the 1G/2G ipods? Anything we can't play realtime that works on the other ipods?
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18:40:50reevebye
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18:42:21kugelweeh, the lcd framebuffer takes quite some space
18:42:37lazkagevaerts, do you know where by any chance?
18:43:13kugelseems we assumed we use the iram at some places but iram wasn't really activated for AMS sansas
18:43:24lazkaah.. got it
18:43:39BdN3504can't anyone of you who knows how to create patches simply take what i have posted there and create one? if not then i'll need your help in doing it myself.
18:43:49linuxstbrasher: No idea - I guess you need to ping amiconn.
18:45:26*kugel has a slight hope to fix the mp3 reboot problem
18:46:21kugeluhm, no
18:46:38saratogai wonder if the AMS problems are just not setting up the MMU correctly
18:47:01kugelthe speed problems most likely are
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18:49:13kugelsaratoga: putting iramorig a bit behind for mp3 causes undefined instruction instead of reboot
18:49:14MTlinuxstb : I was talking about 'cook'
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18:51:32linuxstbMT: cook.c doesn't include any mpeg files (directly, at least).
18:52:34rasheramiconn: Have you done any tests on codec performance on 1G/2G ipods? Anything that doesn't play that plays on other PP devices?
18:52:44JdGordon|kugel: you need to bump the plugin api
18:54:02MTlinuxstb : not directly, no.
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18:55:02lazka:) got clang working.. i will make a wiki howto tomorrow
18:55:08linuxstbMT: You need to find out what files cook.c actually needs, and only include them (or parts of them - i.e. delete what is not needed)
18:55:31linuxstbI would start by putting "#if 0" .... "#endif" around code that I think is not needed.
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18:59:40MTlinuxstb : so if a file like snow.h (inderctly included and includes mpeg files) has some parts which cook.c needs, I would keep those and delete the rest (or "#if 0 .. #endif"), and thus deleting any mpeg includes in snow.h, right ?
19:00
19:02:07linuxstbMT: Is the code in snow.h used by cook? If not, then just remove #include "snow.h" from dsputil.c
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19:04:21MTlinuxstb : not sure, it was just a hypothetical question.
19:04:49MTlinuxstb : Thanks.
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19:08:16kugelJdGordon|: really? I forgot about it
19:08:42JdGordon|you changed the function order... so yes you have to bump them
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19:12:13kugeln1s: does this STATICIRAM only apply to function, or global (per file) variables too?
19:12:48*domonoky sees all those mailings in RaA on the mailing list, and thinks that if we use native Widgets it gets more like a custom App using rockbox codecs. But i want RaA be able to play doom :-)
19:13:02n1skugel: only functions, it's a workaround for gcc's inability to make a longcall for functions that are static but are in another section
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19:13:15*linuxstb doesn't have the energy to argue about it though - the short-term (i.e. probably a summer's worth) is just to abstract the firmware/ parts of Rockbox in a nice way, and implement support for a new kernel, e.g. wince
19:13:15rasherThe way I see it, there are some bits that should draw to a surface: WPS and Plugins stand out, the rest should be native imho
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19:13:26JdGordon|domonoky: there are easier ways to play doom n your phone...
19:14:42domonokyJdGordon|: Doom is just an example, there are many more usefull things in rockbox, which need direct drawing capabilitys..
19:15:13JdGordon|in case its not clear... i tinhk trying to use native wigets is a pointless idea
19:15:15rasherdomonoky: isn't plugins and wps pretty much it?
19:15:29domonokyeq and more ?
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19:16:23domonokybut we probably should just try to get the the target tree and kernel to pure SDL or native, and care about apps/ changes later...
19:16:38JdGordon|s/probably//
19:16:40rasherdomonoky: The eq could be - depends on what the native app offers I guess
19:17:11kugelI think that RaaA should still be rockbox
19:17:17domonokyand mixing probably doesnt look good. you could theme only half of it ?
19:17:42rasherkugel: that's a worthless statement.
19:17:52kugelreplacing the whole UI with native OS stuff will just render to another app, which hasn't much to do with rockbox
19:18:15rasherkugel: so if we came up with a different UI, it would no longer be Rockbox either?
19:18:44kugelno, if it's (nearly) the same as on RaaA
19:18:50*domonoky thinks themes is a strong arguments against native Widgets :-)
19:19:07rasherdomonoky: themes is 90% the WPS
19:19:38linuxstbIMO, Rockbox shouldn't be closely tied to its UI anyway - a logical separation is a Good Thing.
19:20:06JdGordon|linuxstb: 100% agree... but thats not a topic for raaa
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19:20:35LambdaCalculus37Any argument to including .talk files as a valid file format for the file formats table in Appendix A of the manual?
19:20:58kugelsaratoga: mp3 wants to access something at 0x11XXX, but codec's IRAM starts at 0x18000
19:22:01*kugel wonders why mpa.codec has its own memcpy/move etc
19:22:26LambdaCalculus37Ahh, .bmark is missing, too!
19:22:32*LambdaCalculus37 adds that in as well
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19:22:59kugeloh, nevermind
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19:24:55pixelmarasher: what checks are done/planned to be done for themes someone wants to upload to the theme site? I'm asking because of http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=21155
19:25:01kugelsaratoga: any idea how this can happen?
19:25:36pixelmarasher: besides checkwps of course
19:25:51rasherpixelma: ugh yes, that's certainly something that should be checked
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19:26:16rasherFonts is also planned, but I'm not quite sure how to handle it. Do we just ban fonts completely, or check against the font pack?
19:26:53LambdaCalculus37Should a note be put into the manual regarding Musepack SV8 files? IIRC they're not supported by Rockbox (or something was not working with them?)
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19:27:16pixelmahmm, a real tricky one if somone finds an own font because of possible license issues
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19:29:12pixelmaI mean - someone has to check license question with new fonts uploaded with a theme (trying to make myself clear...)
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19:33:11midijunkie41new build works good on sansa ams(fuze)
19:33:51kugelnice
19:34:04midijunkie41playing flac, ogg
19:34:23midijunkie41from sd
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19:35:13midijunkie41mp3 playback freezes rbx
19:35:30midijunkie41is this something i should post in the ams thread?
19:36:24kugelno
19:36:44rasherpixelma: A .cfg file is now required in themes. Not sure if I should remove the two broken ones? Checking fonts will have to wait a bit
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19:38:36pixelmacan you try asking the author to reupload them?
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19:39:36rasherpixelma: I'll have to delete them anyway, so I'll just delete and ask to re-upload in the reason given
19:39:46rasherThey are rather broken right now
19:39:54rasherSo it's not exactly unreasonable
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19:40:23pixelmaI think that's best too
19:40:48JdGordon|how do people feel about using say .theme files which are exactly the same a .cfg but more obvious what it is
19:40:57JdGordon|we could then force only theme settings in it
19:42:07linuxstbJdGordon|: I disagree - abstracting the Rockbox code is exactly what RaaA is about in my mind.
19:42:46rasherJdGordon|: Having the files show up when you do "browse themes" is already pretty obvious
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19:44:38BdN3504Ok, can someone please tell me if i can post this diff on the flyspray tracker: http://pastebin.com/d29439d38
19:45:07rasherBdN3504: Looks like you messed up the line-endings
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19:46:23BdN3504what does that mean? tell me please how do i do it right
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19:47:33rasherBdN3504: how did you generate the diff
19:47:39BdN3504i edited the tex file with a tex editor. then i copied it into the appendix directory and overwrote the old file. then i created a diff using tortois svn
19:48:22rasherThe editor should have an option to use "DOS" (\r\n) or "UNIX" (\n) line endings
19:48:36rasherAlternatively, tortoise svn might let you generate a diff that ignores whitespace
19:48:59rasherBut I know neither tortoise svn nor your editor, so I won't be of much help I'm afraid
19:49:11BdN3504i chose diff with previous version and then i chose create unified diff
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19:49:25BdN3504i use texnic center
19:49:30rasherBdN3504: Might there be an option to ignore line endings or whitespace or something?
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19:50:43BdN3504i don't know. there is only one option to create a diff... i'll search in the help file of texnic
19:52:13kugelwhat text editor did you use?
19:52:15BdN3504ok wait there's a setting, i'll post a pic
19:52:25BdN3504i used texnic center
19:52:38kugelcan't you change line endings with it?
19:54:21BdN3504http://i40.tinypic.com/1o0ifs.jpg
19:54:29BdN3504that's the tortoise setting
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19:57:52rasherBdN3504: did you have "ignore line endings" enabled?
19:59:03rasherpixelma: hum, I now have code to detect fontpack fonts, but what to do with the other fonts? Reject them and tell the author to get it added to the font pack?
19:59:27rasherThat seems the simplest way to make sure there are no font issues, but it's also a bit harsh
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20:00
20:00:01BdN3504yes
20:00:15BdN3504i haven't changed the settings that's the default
20:00:21rasherBdN3504: then it's a bit of a mystery (unless I was just looking at the patch wrong)
20:02:24BdN3504http://pastebin.com/d29439d38 you're talking about this right? so can i post this to the tracker now? or do i have to add anything?
20:02:32kugeluh, then I get all fonts meant for the use with themes for targets which I don't own?
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20:02:56kugelI think the font pack may get too huge quickly with that approach
20:03:12rasherkugel: it already contains many fonts that *no* theme uses..
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20:07:37*kugel broke playback entirely on his fuze now it seems
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20:17:52BdN3504i hope this is correct: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/10074
20:19:42domonokyBdN3504: the patch still replaces the whole file (probably because of lineendings), but it probably good enough for now :-)
20:19:55kugelBdN3504: Do you even look at the created diffs?
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20:20:18Keripo"Rockbox has been accepted to participate in GSoC2009!" :O
20:20:23UbuntuxerHi, I'd suggest to change the buttons from Sansa Fuze. Currently you quit a plugin by selecting BUTTON_POWER, but I think it would be better to use instead BUTTON_MENU and use BUTTON_POWER just to switch off.
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20:20:44KeripoWho can I talk to for signing up with GSoC with Rockbox?
20:20:56kugelUbuntuxer: button menu? not home button? anyway, patches are welcome
20:21:05scorche|shKeripo: in what sort of role?
20:21:13Keripoas a student
20:21:28scorche|shKeripo: well, you need to apply...do you have a project in mind?
20:21:31KeripoI'm interested in working on a Pandora port for Rockbox over the summer
20:21:50Keriponever done GSoC before though, but have a good idea of how it works
20:21:58***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:22:00Ubuntuxerupps sorry BUTTON_HOME of course, I will open a tracker
20:22:01rasherBdN3504: that's still not very good. Maybe it's easier if you jsut post the file
20:22:17BdN3504of course i look at the diffs. it doesn't look too logical to me, to delete everything and then post everything again plus 2 lines...
20:22:35BdN3504willdo
20:22:39domonokyKeripo: isnt Pandora some Webradio ?
20:23:02Lloreandomonoky: In my mind at least, the main part of the UI to discuss replacing is the list (file browsing, and settings) anyway.
20:23:06KeripoOpenPandora, new gaming console in the works: http://openpandora.org/
20:23:15BigBambiKeripo: This forever delayed hand held thing?
20:23:47scorche|shKeripo: hrm...new ports can be a bit touchy with regards to GSoC...part of the issue is, we want to make sure that a project is capable to be completed...i do not know much about pandora, but if you came up against a brick wall and couldnt proceed...
20:23:49KeripoI'm hoping that it isn't delayed that long - they recently posted videos of a fully built prototype
20:24:02BigBambiIt isn't even going into production until mid-March, if they manage to make that
20:24:07domonokyso you want to port rockbox to the pandora hardware ?
20:24:21Keriposcorche|sh: Well my original plan was to go for the PSP, but then I saw the Pandora...
20:25:16domonokyhm, doing a port to not-now existing hardware sounds heavy for a gsoc project..
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20:25:34Keripodomonoky, how would a PSP port fare then?
20:25:40Keripocause at least I do have a PSP to work with
20:25:53Keripoand theres plenty enough documentation for PSP programming
20:26:01JdGordon|have you done any hombrew on it?
20:26:24Keripojust a few simple things, nothing big so far
20:26:33*domonoky doesnt know too much about PSP Hardware.. would it make sense to run rockbox standalone on this ? (are there datasheets and else for all components)
20:26:48KeripoI guess I'm being too ambitious, but I just realized the deadline of April 3rd
20:26:49ErantDon't need datasheets
20:26:52Lloreandomonoky: It's more a target for a Rockbox app.
20:26:56JdGordon|it doesnt matter if it doesnt make snese...
20:26:57ErantPSP has an OS, with syscalls
20:27:52Keripogetting the UI simulator running on it at least shouldn't be a problem though, so that could be something Id like to start with
20:27:54domonokyso that would perhaps better be another instance of Rockbox as a App..
20:28:20Lloreandomonoky: Basically, yes.
20:28:22Keripodomonoky, yeah, PSP homebrews are mostly apps
20:29:54domonokyKeripo: so yes, rockbox as a application is one of our suggested projects: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SummerOfCode2009 :-)
20:30:27Keripoyup, I saw that, I'm just not sure who I should talk to to get started on writing a proposal
20:30:45domonokyjust ask here :-)
20:31:12Keripoalright then, I'll explain my situation
20:32:02KeripoMy background in Rockbox is simply usage on my iPod/Sansa and recompiling it and the UISim on Linux
20:32:23Keripomy programming background is mostly in application developing/porting for iPodLinux
20:32:32BdN3504does this look better/right? http://pastebin.com/d7aec3ff8
20:32:42Keripomy education is currently a CIS student in University of Pennsylvania
20:33:01KeripoI plan to spend my entire summer programming
20:33:39KeripoI am interested in porting Rockbox to the PSP platform (well-established homebrew scene) but the Pandora recently caught my interest
20:34:03Keripoif the Pandora is able to come out in production soon, then I'd like to work on the Pandora. If not, the PSP.
20:34:09domonokyKeripo: sounds good, perhaps you could try to start with filling out our Appplication Template and post it here (pastebin) for better review :-)
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20:35:07Keriposure, I'll type stuff up tonight then
20:35:31kugelBdN3504: definiutely
20:35:34Keriposorry for the late notice though - I didn't expect the GSoC deadline to be so soon (thought it was next month)
20:36:14domonokyabout the Rockbox as a App idea for psp: it would be better to make a new target which uses SDL/native calls to run rockbox, instead of trying to port the simulator..
20:36:26BdN3504i have posted it to the tracker.
20:37:10KeripoPSP already has a good SDL port, so I was thinking about first quickly porting the simulator, making a dummy PSP target for the simulator, then work down from there, changing things until its an actual separate target
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20:38:40domonokyalso doesnt sound bad. try to put this idea down in the application template, and we will happily help you to improve it...
20:39:14domonokythere more details in the application, the better :-)
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20:40:35domonokyKeripo: could you point to some code you have done for Ipodlinux ? :-)
20:40:39Keripomy biggest problem right now is really navigating through Rockbox's source code - the last time I checked out the SVN code (was looking for code for the SansaLinux port) I got lost and took over half an hour just finding the stuff
20:40:48Keripo*the code snippet I was looking for
20:41:21Keripomy work -> http://sourceforge.net/projects/zeroslackr/
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20:41:49Keripomost of my experience is really in porting applications, so this seems within my ability
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20:44:51Lloreankugel: You need to press REC+POWER to stop playback on the e200? (At least, that's what it sounds like from your commit message re:Fuze)
20:45:31casainhohello :-) −− I am getting this warning which I think I shouldn't. Why I am getting it? please help:: bootloader/lyre_proto1.c:50: warning: implicit declaration of function ‘lcd_clear_display’
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20:50:38linuxstbcasainho: Did you include <lcd.h> ?
20:51:13casainholinuxstb: yes :: #include "lcd-target.h"
20:51:24linuxstblcd-target.h != lcd.h
20:51:37casainholinuxstb: ah, ok... I will try.
20:51:57linuxstblcd.h should include lcd-target.h - you shouldn't include the "-target.h" files directly.
20:52:18Lloreankugel: Nevermind, just an unclear commit message I guess.
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20:52:33LloreanIs next track info not expected to be working right now?
20:52:59casainholinuxstb: ok. That warning is gone. And I will remove the lcd-target.h :-)
20:52:59linuxstbcasainho: Ignore that, it seems that lcd.h doesn't...
20:53:10casainholinuxstb: ok :-)
20:53:59linuxstblcd-target.h is #included by the target lcd driver - e.g. lcd-lyre.c
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20:56:09casainholinuxstb: so, I should not include lcd-target.h on bootloader file? and instead include lcd.h?
20:56:54linuxstbcasainho: Correct.
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21:07:27kugelLlorean: I just meant that basically the functions of REC and POWER on the e200 are mapped to HOME only on the fuze
21:08:09Lloreankugel: I'd suggest not saying it does what REC+POWER does then. :-P
21:09:35kugelyea, a plus is a bit unclear in this context :(
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21:13:41bluebrotherrasher: what do you think about moving the file size in rbutilqt.php back to bytes? It's currently broken anyway, so there's no need to keep its current state
21:14:00rasherbluebrother: no opinion, so whatever you want
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21:16:21bluebrotherwell, I'd vote for using bytes again :)
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21:19:54rasherbluebrother: done.
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21:20:53bluebrotherrasher: thanks :)
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21:29:50n1syay, new vlc version brought back the video feature :)
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22:24:02kugelmeh
22:24:11kugelputting code into iram doesn't quite work
22:24:25kugelplayback just skips songs :/
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22:29:18IuDeXHi I have one question about today sansa AMS patch.
22:29:51gevaertsHorscht: this sudden disconnect you had, did rockbox continue to run, or did it freeze? Also, wasn't this just the battery running out?
22:29:56fmlHello. Would it make sense to add an index to the Rockbox manual? Or is there not enough terms to justify it? I.e. the table of contents is enough?
22:30:11IuDeXI can access first 1gb. After apply this patch Can I access second GB? (clipv1 2gb) I can't see any answer.
22:30:34Horschtgevaerts, it continued running. It was still in USB mode and seems to have been reconected automaticaly
22:30:40BigBambifml: I'd like one personally
22:30:42gevaertsok
22:31:15gevaertsHorscht: what do you mean exactly by reconnected automatically?
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22:31:34IuDeXCan anyone answer me? =]
22:31:49gevaertsIuDeX: please have some patience
22:31:56fmlBigBambi: generally, an index is a good thing. But if you can lookup everything in the ToC just as easily... But I'll try to skim through the manual and look where an index entry would fit.
22:31:59Horschtwell, I got the windows message that the drive was removed "unsafe" and that data loss might have occured
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22:32:15Horschtbut it still was available as a drive when I came back
22:32:19gevaertshm, weird
22:32:30Horschtso the connection seems to simply have "dropped" inbetween
22:32:34amiconnrasher: Anything specific you want to know? I did test some, but not all, mostly because of unavailable test files
22:32:38*gevaerts doesn't really see how that can happen
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22:32:52BigBambifml: I don't think you can look everything up as easily in the ToC - various things are in different places and I always just end up searching the pdf for what I want
22:32:56gevaertsany chance of a bad cable?
22:32:57amiconnMost codecs perform very similar to the other ipods if they make proper use of iram
22:32:58fmlBigBambi: I thought about it and my first thought was "yes!" but in the second second I couldn't come up with anything but WPS that would go into the index :-)
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22:33:14Horschtgevaerts, no
22:33:29amiconnThe most notable exception are 5.1 ac3 files (i.e. those needing downmix). They aren't realtime on PP5002
22:33:34IuDeXgevaerts: sorry, but I have no time ;]
22:33:44BigBambifml: Well I admit that I gave an initial response too without actually looking or thinking :)
22:33:59kugelIuDeX: You can access everything now. And you always could with a 2GB clip
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22:34:14Horschtdespite me not having used any other cable, this cable has been treated very well by me and was working fine before and still is today with the OF/EDM, gevaerts
22:34:58gevaertssaratoga_lab: when you had "disconnect" issues, did you get this unsafe removal warning?
22:35:03IuDeXkugel: Thanks for answer. Ok, it's time to compile and use Rockbox :)
22:35:27rasheramiconn: no, nothing specific, just curious.
22:36:30*gevaerts can think of one scenario, but is sounds unlikely...
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22:37:21gevaertsHorscht: how long was it plugged in? Am I understanding you correctly in that you weren't nearby when it went wrong? How long was it sitting alone?
22:37:23bluebrotherfml: I started an attempt for an index quite a while back (2 years or so?)
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22:37:35bluebrothernever finished it though, but I still like the idea
22:37:41bluebrothersmacnay: you're already there
22:37:59Horschtgevaerts, aprx. 5 hours
22:38:01amiconnHmm. CodecPerformanceComparison tests some codecs too fine-grained imo, and otoh leaves out some formats completely (e.g. ac3, ape)
22:38:06Horschti was in bed while it happened
22:38:17smacnayI love what you folks are doing! I wish I could find a player that is fully supported still on the shelves.
22:38:24fmlbluebrother: and what was the result? Did you get enough entries to justify it? Or what was the problem?
22:38:27smacnaySorry - joined twice by accident.
22:38:37kugelanyone an idea why playback keeps skipping songs when I put some lcd or button code into iram?
22:38:51bluebrotherfml: the problem was simply that I was busy doing other things and forgot about it.
22:39:12gevaertsok. Yell if I'm talking nonsense, but would it be possible that the battery ran down, after which the ipod disconnected and turned off, after which it started harging from ROM, after which it rebooted to rockbox?
22:39:15kugelon my fuze that is. I put aside 0x40000 bytes for codecs (starting at 0x10000), the rest (0x0-0x10000) is for code
22:39:31smacnayMy wife just got a Sanza Fuze and, to my surprise, it played .ogg files.
22:39:36bluebrothereven if it's only one page it's worth it IMO. But someone needs to go through the manual sources and spread the \index{} stuff there, so it's somewhat tedious.
22:39:46amiconnFurthermore, mp2, mp1, speex, shorten, and the game music formats
22:40:01amiconnAre there test tracks available for the latter?
22:40:22gevaertsHorscht: The reason I'm asking is that the "disconnects" I'm used to seeing don't show up as "unsafe removal" events. They are caused by bad data transmission, which would give a different error message
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22:40:47Horschtgevaerts, i might add:
22:41:00Horschti *was* transfering data
22:41:08fmlbluebrother: why is it tedious? It's just text editing. And if we join our forces it will progress quite fast
22:41:08n1samiconn: lots' of sids are available in the "HVSC"
22:41:26BigBambifml: Well, let me know - if you don't get round to it I'll try and start the tedious task of addding the \index{} stuff in a day or two when I have some more time
22:41:32amiconnThen we should select one as an official rockbox test track.
22:41:36bluebrotherfml: true. It's just ... "work" ;-)
22:41:46amiconnWhat about spc and nsf?
22:42:04BigBambifml: So we should split up sections I guess
22:42:09Horschtnot just the "eject before remove" message, but the "drive was removed while data was written", gevaerts
22:42:10bluebrotherthere might even already be some \index markers in the sources. Can't remember exactly though.
22:42:33gevaertsHorscht: ok. That could still match what I suggested
22:42:33BigBambibluebrother: I'm sure there are, but in fairly arbitrary places
22:42:51gevaertsHorscht: actually, it's more likely to happen if the disk is busy...
22:43:00Horschtyes, it was
22:43:11Horschtis it a power issue?
22:43:14BigBambibluebrother: arbitrary as in they are in some but not others, not as in where they are in bad
22:43:37gevaertsI think it's reasonably likely, yes. I'm not sure though.
22:44:31fmlBigBambi, bluebrother: but it shouldn't be done thoughtlessly. A bad index is not much of a help. I mean, the index entries should only be made where the terms are really explained, not just semi automatically with search-and-insert
22:44:32bluebrotheralso, putting index points around requires a bit of reading the text −− you don't want it in every place the index word is mentioned ;-)
22:44:32*gevaerts tries to think of a way to be sure of this
22:44:57bluebrotherfml: definitely. That's why it's a bit of work ;)
22:45:05BigBambifml, bluebrother: for sure
22:45:17fmlbluebrother: he-he
22:45:25gevaertsyou can't use battery bench in this case unfortunately...
22:45:48bluebrotherbut simply starting to add them might be a good thing. As long as the index isn't printed into the manual itself it doesn't hurt
22:46:01BigBambifml, bluebrother: I think a list of what we want indexed would be good, and then we can go through the text indexing appropriate places
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22:47:02fmlBigBambi: yes. But my fear is that we'll end with just the ToC!
22:47:27BigBambifml: Not if we are clever bunnies!
22:47:30bluebrotherbtw, it might be a good thing to also change the sources to use a newline after each sentence for easier diffing.
22:47:33fmlbluebrother: how would you check the quality of the index without having it?
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22:47:45gevaertsHorscht: the only way I can think of to make sure would be to do the whole thing again, but while watching it. I'd really appreciate it if you could do that, but I understand that it's a lot to ask for, so don't feel obligated...
22:47:59BigBambifml: But yes, it needs some care
22:48:09bluebrotherfml: you can always include it in your own manual build. Its simply a line that needs adding
22:48:41fmlbluebrother: I wouldn't do that. It's easier diffing (smaller diffs) but harder writing. And diffs are quite clear even if the text is reformatted.
22:48:52bluebrotherI can check if I have my old attempts still around somewhere. Might be possible in some old svn tree. IIRC it wasn't much changes. Possibly some slight change to the Makefile.
22:49:03Horschtgevaerts, maybe tomorrow
22:49:33gevaertsHorscht: actually, copying a smaller amount of data would probably be sufficient. Just look at the battery level before and after
22:49:52fmlbluebrother: yes, a call to makeindex (or what was the name?) must be added and then some checks to rerun latex if something has changed
22:50:12bluebrotherfml: I tend to disagree −− I quite like the idea to allow better diffing. But as I'm not really actively working on the manual my voice isn't too strong here :)
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22:50:38bluebrotheryep. That re-running is handled by the Makefile itself. IIRC it already include support for that.
22:51:22gevaertsHorscht: maybe note the battery percentage, copy 5GB or so, and note the battery percentage again. That shouldn't take too longm and we can extrapolate how much the battery would drop for your full copy
22:51:59*gevaerts actually hopes that this will turn out to be the problem
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22:53:01fmlBigBambi, bluebrother: ok, I'll see through the manual then
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23:00
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23:00:10kugel"/home/kugel/rbdev/rockbox-fuze/build/apps/codecs/nsf.elf: Not enough room for program headers, try linking with -N" ???
23:00:24kugelI defined 0x40000 iramsize, which is way more than on the other targets
23:03:39kugelseems like a bug in the linker
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23:05:07bluebrotherrasher: any idea why BlacknBlue Glass gets a space prepended in the rbutil output?
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23:09:35*shotofadds wonders what he did to break the build server with such an innocent commit...
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23:10:46Horschtgevaerts, sorry, I was afk. I myself would have assumed more of a usb power issue, not an issue regarding my battery percentage... i'll give it a try, though
23:10:54Bagdershotofadds: it needs a serious breakage every once in a while to shape up! ;-)
23:10:55n1sshotofadds: it's a moody server :)
23:11:19Bagderit's usually because one of the build clients get "stuck"
23:11:24Horschtas my ipod was ~ 70% charged when i connected it
23:12:03*shotofadds got Doom working on the D2 and it's kinda...interesting on a touchscreen ;-)
23:12:07gevaertsHorscht: it's a combination. The ipod always runs on battery, but it should charge while connected. That doesn't happen properly on ipods yet though, so with lots of activity you get a net battery drain
23:12:28shotofaddsbut you'll have to wait til my next commit gets built first before you can try it...
23:12:53Horschtyes, gevaerts. I am aware of that. But a 70% discharge?
23:13:06gevaertsthat's why we have to test...
23:13:22Horschti'll do a quick test..
23:14:05Horschtgevaerts, debug menu -> battery info, correct?
23:14:15gevaertsyes
23:14:30Horschtok, currently 3.951V
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23:14:51Horschtnow, I'm gonna transfer a few gig
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23:15:35Horscht7.44 to be exact
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23:17:29n1sgevaerts: is there any safe way for rockbox to abort a usb connection on low battery?
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23:18:28gevaertsn1s: not really, but it should charge anyway, so I'm not sure if that's a real problem
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23:19:00n1scontinually spinnign disk can probably drain more that it can charge over usb
23:19:23_Auron_o.O
23:19:34Horschtyes, but I doubt it would be enough to not only recharge the ipod, but also drain 70% of it's charge
23:19:43gevaertsIt shouldn't drain more than 500mA, but currently we're not giving it that much
23:20:08Horschti'll brb
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23:20:36*gevaerts is busy checking what happens if you run battery_bench while connecting to usb
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23:21:13Horschtre
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23:33:45gevaertsOK. I copied 3GB from my video, and battery_bench says that it dropped from 4021mV (81%) to 3891mV (063%)
23:34:12gevaertsI do suspect that this battery isn't in perfect shape anymore though
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23:36:24gevaertshm, more interesting things. At one point it went down to 70%, copying stopped (I did this in 1GB chunks), and it recovered to 80%. So we'd need the voltage *immediately* after you stop copying
23:36:26LambdaCalculus37I'll be adding .voice, .bmark, and .fmr descriptions to the File Formats Appendix in the manual. Is there an \opt for FM radio targets?
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23:36:35phoulHey all
23:37:16phoulIm in the market for a new mp3 player of some kind and the rockbox project has always had my interest, im just wondering in your opinion which player works best against rockbox?
23:37:28gevaertsagainst? :)
23:37:34phoulwith
23:37:36Horschtgevaerts, 3.830V after 7.44 GB
23:37:36phoulw/e
23:37:37phoullol
23:37:40n1sLambdaCalculus37: yes, it's in features.txt, radio IIRC
23:37:42Bagderphoul: www.rockbox.org/wiki/BuyersGuide
23:38:05Horschtcompared to 3.951V before
23:38:28phoulumm
23:38:34phoulive noticed that they are all out of production
23:38:34phoullol
23:38:37gevaertsHorscht: so 0.12V down. Shutdown voltage is 3.3 if I understand the source correctly
23:38:47LambdaCalculus37phoul: So go to eBay.
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23:39:55gevaertsSo you have 0.53V to go, which would mean... /me calculates.. 32GB to go
23:40:19gevaertsProbably a bit less, as the voltage is a bit lower when actually writing data
23:40:40Horschtgevaerts, current charge seems to be 53%, when I shut it down earlier today it was at 73% (I didn't check the percentage just before the copying)
23:40:48Horschtso yes indeed...
23:41:11Horschtit could have been the power failing at my 53GB collection
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23:41:33gevaertsok. I'm going to assume it was that. That means we mostly know what to do about it, it just needs work...
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23:42:09Horschtok
23:42:23gevaertsThanks for testing
23:42:36Horschtit is me who has to thank
23:42:56Horschtafter all, all I had to show was "it shut down, causing possible data loss"
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23:43:18*LambdaCalculus37 really thinks the old icons in Appendix A of the manual should be replaced with the Tango icons for targets that use them
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23:45:02Horschtif you need me to do any further test, just drop me a PM on the Forums (nickname Horscht), gevaerts
23:45:07HorschtI am going to bed now
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23:49:49bertrikHorscht, gevaerts most of the discharge curves I've seen are fairly linear down to 3.6V then drop quickly
23:50:08frankyshotofadds: I'm right now playing the shareware wad on the D2, nice work! :)
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23:52:02fmlIsn't an "it" missed before "safe to use" in the following sentence in the manual: "This means that the build could contain bugs but most of the time is safe to use"?
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23:53:45n1sthat sounds correct to me but i suppose you could put an "it" before the "is"
23:53:56shotofaddsfranky: good to see it works for you! I didn't really need to do much to get it running - you should thank the developers who ported it to all the other Rockbox targets already :p
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23:54:38*shotofadds goes to bed
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23:54:53 Quit n1s ("Lämnar")
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23:56:03casainhohello :-) −− can someone look at patch FS #10076?
23:56:11casainhoand possible commit it?
23:56:24 Quit LambdaCalculus37 ("Put it all in the curry!")
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