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#rockbox log for 2009-04-01

00:00:34 Join saratoga [0] (n=9803c264@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-0db74c31db603688)
00:00:46rasherBagder: Maybe the link should go to #Download ?
00:01:20Bagderthat seems like a good idea
00:01:44 Quit Davide-NYC (Client Quit)
00:02:30Bagderdone
00:02:36saratogai looked through the deleted posts from New Ports and typed up a basic list of reasons we have been deleting threads and a little bit of text explaining why
00:02:44saratogahttp://pastebin.com/m72f529c1
00:03:04saratogafeel free to comment
00:04:57BagderI think it's very good!
00:05:32saratogaok hopefully this will reduce the volume of angry emails I get about deleted posts
00:05:34evilnick_saratoga: What is Filespray?
00:05:56 Part Buschel
00:06:08 Quit matsl ("Riece/3.1.2 XEmacs/21.5-b28 (fuki, linux)")
00:06:36saratogaevilnick_: our patch tracker, but I will change taht part
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00:42:39mib_enw6r98fhi
00:42:50cmwslwhey
00:42:54cmwslw:)
00:44:57LambdaCalculus37linuxstb: Regarding rocklife, I didn't have any errors when test building here.
00:45:01mib_enw6r98fhold on
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00:45:48LambdaCalculus37linuxstb: Scratch that... I did get a warning (just checked my logs).
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00:51:37 Join stingray_shrey [0] (i=230be510@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-3056c833d9de70a0)
00:51:48stingray_shreyhi
00:51:57stingray_shreyI'm new to this channel
00:52:24stingray_shrey...anybody there?
00:52:34Lloreanstingray_shrey: Did you have a specific question?
00:52:36 Join LambdaCalculus37 [0] (i=41585845@rockbox/staff/LambdaCalculus37)
00:53:10stingray_shreyI'm interested in entering the world of rockbox
00:53:13stingray_shreydevelopment
00:53:38stingray_shreyI thought I'd just stick around and see what goes on, meet a few people, and maybe learn something
00:54:24 Quit n1s ("Lmnar")
00:58:17stingray_shreyHas anybody started development on Rockbox for the iphone?
00:58:31LambdaCalculus37Nope.
00:58:54saratogathe dB in rockbox are relative to 1 volt right?
00:59:22stingray_shreyI was planning on doing that, but approach it as an app instead of an entire operating system
01:00
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01:16:01stingray_shreyfor a Rockbox app, what sort of features would be needed?
01:16:17EternalRainsthat depends on what you define as 'app'
01:16:26stingray_shreywithout a new OS I don't see how Rockbox could play Flac or OGG
01:16:30stingray_shreyon an iphone
01:16:53EternalRainsrockbox is, essentially, a new os. (someone correct me if I'm wrong)
01:16:57scorchewhy not?
01:17:04saratogastingray_shrey: have you read the mailing list stuff about Rockbox as an App?
01:17:15cmwslwiPhonelinux is working on writing drivers for the iPhone
01:17:28stingray_shreyyes, but I was exploring whether instead of making a new OS for iphone there was a way to install it as an app
01:17:32cmwslwonce we're done, Rockbox could be ported
01:17:39cmwslwoh
01:17:42stingray_shreysorry, no I have not read the mailing list.
01:17:57*EternalRains facepalms as he didn't at first see the meaning of 'app' in iphone
01:18:14Lloreanstingray_shrey: Why would it need to be an OS to play FLAC?
01:18:16stingray_shreyhaha
01:18:48cmwslwI doubt anything apple has in the api would be powerful enough
01:19:02cmwslwpossibly if it's an app for a hacked iPhone
01:19:03 Quit robin0800_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:19:06Lloreancmwslw: Powerful enough to do what?
01:19:10stingray_shreyiphone cannot natively play flac
01:19:13rasherRockbox has its own decoders...
01:19:13LloreanYou just need a means of PCM output.
01:19:37stingray_shreyand if it can't play flac files accessing them with an app wouldn't work...
01:20:03rasherstingray_shrey: Why not? If the app can read the file, it can decode it.
01:20:05saratogarockbox is actually an aduio player fyi
01:20:06cmwslwApps are not really meant for loading and playing files
01:20:28cmwslwand plus, you would not be able to use the home or sleep buttons
01:20:34EternalRainscmwslw: but surely they have some kind of io capabilities?
01:20:38Lloreancmwslw: I find it hard to believe that apps can't open a file, perform calculations on it, and output audio...
01:20:38stripwaxstingray_shrey - no: if the iphone has an api for playing pcm audio, rockbox (the app) would do the audio (flac,vorbis,etc) decoding
01:20:49rasherSo the Apple API doesn't have a) the means of reading a file b) the means of playing pcm audio?
01:21:05stingray_shreyI was under the impression a complete replacement of the stock iphone Music app can be made
01:21:09rasherIf you have that, you can play FLACs
01:21:11cmwslwActually I was wrong
01:21:15stingray_shreywith all of its functionality
01:21:23cmwslwIt is possible to do that because PwnPlayer does it
01:21:27EternalRainsstingray_shrey: that would likely require jailbreaking.
01:21:35EternalRainsoh, nvm.
01:21:53stingray_shreythat's not too different a process from installing the rockbox OS on previous gen ipods
01:21:55LloreanWe were discussing what's necessary, not possible.
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01:22:03stripwaxstingray_shrey - it really is
01:22:53stingray_shreyjailbreaking isn't illegal
01:23:03stripwaxit really is different, I meant
01:23:22stingray_shreyso a rockbox app which required a jailbroken ipod touch/iphone would be feasible
01:24:17EternalRainspossible, but the feasibility is debateable
01:25:16stingray_shreyseeing as how as it stands it's not possible to replace the apple music app
01:25:39stingray_shreyi would venture to say that jailbreaking is a good pre requisite
01:25:59LloreanWhy does it need to be necessary to replace the core music app?
01:26:10stingray_shreyby "replace"
01:26:24stingray_shreyI mean have all the abilities/features
01:26:28stingray_shreyand more
01:26:41cmwslwApple wouldn't allow a music app replacement, so jailbreaking would be necessary
01:26:52stingray_shreyof course
01:27:04Lloreanstingray_shrey: Rockbox on the iPhone would have the same features as Rockbox normally has.
01:27:13LloreanYou wouldn't be writing a new program or anything, just adapting an existing one.
01:27:17cmwslwand I don't think that an un-jailbroken app can access the filesystem directly (correct me if I'm wrong
01:28:34stingray_shreythe rockbox app would have to work with the iphone OS
01:28:38stingray_shreynot replace it
01:28:48 Nick EternalRains is now known as EternalJourney (n=InsDel@c-76-106-220-241.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
01:29:40stripwaxright, but any rockbox app on the iphone would really look and behave like rockbox does on any other device right now. it wouldn't somehow have the abilities/features of the existing Music app
01:30:04rasherstingray_shrey: both options are open, really
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01:30:45adamdudestupid nickserv...
01:30:52adamdudeanyhoo.. hi
01:31:23adamdudelike to say that i like rockbox
01:31:34stingray_shreyI don't see why it would have to look like the existing app
01:31:40stingray_shreyexisting rockbox***
01:32:23Lloreanstingray_shrey: Because it would _be_ the existing Rockbox
01:32:27LloreanAgain, you're not writing a new program.
01:32:30stripwaxstingray_shrey - well, there's no point making an entirely separate version of a rockbox application "just for iphone" that doesn't look/behave like all other rockbox versions.
01:32:31 Quit LambdaCalculus37 ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
01:32:31LloreanJust adapting an existing one.
01:33:27stingray_shreyto play with the Iphone OS, it needs to have a lot of Objective-C in it.
01:33:36stingray_shreyto make the interface
01:33:47stingray_shreyand to make selections, etc.
01:34:30stripwaxThe fact that the iphone development software is mac-specific limits its ability for rockbox developers to even consider porting to the iphone
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01:38:57stripwaxwhat's the best/easiest way to pass data between the codec thread and debug_menu ?
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01:39:58stripwaxdata *and requests* in fact.. I'd like to have debug_menu ask the codec to provide some internal stats, but without the overhead of the codec_thread updating those internal stats all the time, just on demand
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01:48:24stingray_shreyiphone dev software is indeed mac specific
01:48:32stingray_shreybut it's the most powerful ipod to date
01:48:37stingray_shreywith a huge, growing user base
01:49:10stingray_shreyI feel it shouldn't be overlooked
01:49:39stripwaxwe aren't stopping you :)
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01:50:29stingray_shreyof course
01:50:46stingray_shreyI'm a student right now, very interested in all things rockbox and iphone
01:51:03stingray_shreyWill try to see if I can get something going
01:51:18stingray_shreyWas just seeing if any other devs had ideas/interests in this :)
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02:13:09stingray_shreySo I'm planning on applying to Rockbox as my mentor foundation
02:13:12stingray_shreyfor Google Summer of Code
02:13:36stingray_shreyany advice/past experience?
02:15:40 Quit CaptainKewl (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:17:01*stripwax sighs, full rockbox sim rebuild on Eee quite slow
02:18:09Lloreanstingray_shrey: Do your research into Rockbox itself. When you're writing your application you're basically putting something forward that's going to be compared with other students. How much work you've already put in definitely paints a picture of how much work you seem like you're willing to do.
02:18:55stingray_shreyhmm thanks!
02:19:02stingray_shreyone thing I'm worried about
02:19:11stingray_shreyis that I have no experience in open source programming
02:19:19stingray_shreyor real-world apps
02:19:40stingray_shreyWill there be assistance to tackle this, or is there a rather steep learning curve
02:21:22LloreanI'm not entirely sure what you mean by "no experience." Open-source programming is still programming. Do you know C?
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02:22:40***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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02:24:18andy`stingray_shrey: by real-world apps I take it that you are a student?
02:24:26stingray_shreyyep
02:24:40stingray_shreyI'm an undergraduate
02:25:07stingray_shreyI have knowledge of C++ and Python, but am willing to learn anything required
02:25:19stingray_shreyso far my only programming has been in the classroom (projects, etc.)
02:25:39 Part toffe82
02:26:31Lloreanstingray_shrey: Rockbox is written in C, and typically has greater constraints than even your average C program due to the limited environments it's expected to run in.
02:26:57andy`stingray_shrey: lol 1. april joke, ritE ?
02:27:24 Quit perrikwp ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
02:27:42scorcheandy`: huh?
02:27:44andy`stingray_shrey: on a more serious note though, hve you looked into the code yet?
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02:28:35andy`scorche: a friend of mine wrote the 1.april thing. just a joke.
02:28:52scorche...
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02:29:16stingray_shreyI have set up cygwin on my windows computer
02:29:21Lloreanandy`: Please, respect the fact that this is an on-topic channel (and ask any friend that may be loaned the keyboard to do the same)
02:29:23stingray_shreyhave not looked into the code just yet
02:29:45stingray_shreydon't exactly know how to dive in
02:29:46andy`Llorean: I will
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02:30:29sandsmarkLlorean: sorry
02:30:32Lloreanstingray_shrey: A port is an awfully large project coming from a cold start to expect to accomplish in the course of a summer.
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02:31:58stingray_shreyof course
02:32:14ufomanhmm why online manuals have this weird cjk-ready font? ff 3.0.8 here...
02:32:17stingray_shreyI was thinking of just making a rockbox app from the ground up
02:32:49saratogawhat does that mean
02:33:05stingray_shreybasically jsut an app that plays music with a different user interface
02:33:12stingray_shreythat would also play flac and ogg formats
02:33:14Lloreanstingray_shrey: That's not Rockbox then...
02:33:33stingray_shreyI see your point
02:33:40Lloreanufoman: I don't see anything odd with the Rockbox manuals. What problem are you experiencing, exactly?
02:34:44stingray_shreyI don't fully understand what it means to "port" rockbox into an app for to the iphone
02:34:46ufomanLlorean: all of them are displayed in double width font you can often encounter on chinese pages...
02:34:51stingray_shreyapp form*
02:35:59ufomanLlorean: hmm... they look ok on ff 3.0.8 on windows
02:36:05stingray_shreyi would like to work with the iphone (as I'm very interested in iphone development)
02:36:40stingray_shreybut any doable project would be a great introduction to open source, and rockbox
02:36:52Lloreanstingray_shrey: "Porting" Rockbox means taking the existing Rockbox codebase, and making the changes necessary for it to run on the selected device.
02:36:59andy`and you would like to make a iphone app out of rockbox?
02:37:23stingray_shreyyes
02:37:48ufomanLlorean: ufoman/weirdfont.png">http://kolos.math.uni.lodz.pl/~ufoman/weirdfont.png
02:38:08andy`that is not really porting though.
02:38:33Lloreanufoman: It's most likely a settings issue.
02:39:16stingray_shreytrue, but I fell with the iphone and ipod touch rockbox's current functionality would be too limited
02:39:16ufomanprobably you're right
02:39:28stingray_shreyit would need to undergo a big change
02:39:33ufomanI won't bother you anymore, it's time to sleep
02:39:35ufomangoodbye
02:39:44stingray_shreyi feel**
02:40:06Lloreanstingray_shrey: If there's functionality missing in Rockbox, wouldn't it make sense to patch it into the core codebase?
02:40:34LloreanIf you're planning on writing a new app, rather than using Rockbox, it's not really a Rockbox project.
02:40:43andy`what Llorean is saying is that porting rockbox to the iphone is more than just making an application that runs as an iphone app. it is making the changes necessary for rockbox to run as a standalone application
02:40:59stingray_shreyoh okay
02:41:18stingray_shreyI see, actually changing the existing rockbox code
02:41:20Unhelpfulincluding figuring out *how* to run your own OS on iPhone
02:41:53stingray_shreyhere's the actual project idea from the RockBox main page:
02:41:54stingray_shreyPortable devices which allow third party applications to run within the retail OS are becoming increasingly popular. Convert Rockbox to an application that runs on a Windows, Linux or Apple based cellphone, PDA, iPhone, or similar device that allows third party applications.
02:41:57LloreanUnhelpful: Well it could be an application rather than OS, though that's also a considerable task.
02:42:09Lloreanstingray_shrey: Yes. "Convert Rockbox"
02:42:35andy`if you were to write an iphone application that does the same thing at rockbox, but uses the iphone OS, then you've made an application that serves the "same" purpose, but is not a rockbox port
02:43:19andy`and you've would have made an iphone app, not something rockbox related.
02:43:21krazykitandy`, maybe you just need to broaden your definition of what constitutes a port
02:43:45Lloreankrazykit: Uhm, the Rockbox developers define what constitutes a port of Rockbox.
02:44:21andy`krazykit: perhaps, but I still believe that an iphone app is something completely different than rockbox
02:44:30LloreanAnd what we expect from such a summer of code project is that it be the Rockbox codebase, adapted to either run as an OS or Application on the new hardware.
02:44:38LloreanNot a separate codebase that needs to be kept in sync
02:44:57 Quit JdGordon (Remote closed the connection)
02:45:33stingray_shreyhmm
02:46:44 Quit Conic ()
02:47:59andy`stingray_shrey: so if you were to port the rockbox to the iphone, you would have to make something that replaces the iphone OS and boots rockbox.
02:48:21Lloreanandy`: Not true.
02:48:46LloreanRockbox as an App is one of our summer of code suggestions. The key is that it's _Rockbox_ as an app, not "a separate app designed to be similar to Rockbox"
02:49:36andy`Llorean: oh, then I'm wrong. I haven't read the suggestions yet
02:50:07 Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net)
02:50:42stingray_shreythe iphone can only read C++ and Objective C
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02:51:53andy`Llorean: I know taht i should probably read it first, but I'll ask instead. Exactly what would rockbox as an app mean? I'm guessing that it would run on my PC, but does it cover anything like an iPhone app?
02:52:39Lloreanandy`: Right now you can already, in a way, run a Rockbox app on your PC
02:52:47LloreanFor each player we support there's also a User Interface Simulator.
02:53:15Lloreanit's basically a version of Rockbox compiled to run on a PC and simulate Rockbox's user interface on that player. Hardware isn't emulated but it's useful for testing application-level code, or doing WPS design, etc.
02:53:56LloreanBut it does feature music playback. Because it's designed as a UI simulator, and because it was never really intended for use *as* a music player, it's not really in the best state for actual *use* though some people are reported to use it as their audio player.
02:54:35LloreanThe "as an app" project would be cleaning this up and making it possible to compile Rockbox as an application on its own, rather than as a simulator, as well as improving the state of the program when compiled this way (some things that are simulated wouldn't be at all necessary in an as-an-app version, etc)
02:54:39andy`Then it is for development purposes? As it is easier to develop for rockbox if you can test your changes without uploading a new image all the time.
02:54:53LloreanIt's primarily for development purposes currently, yes.
02:54:59andy`ok
02:55:24andy`and I agree, that would be quite usefull
02:55:33LloreanAnyway, the as-an-app project could target an iPhone, or windows mobile, or Desktop Linux. The target isn't *entirely* relevant except as a proof-of-concept to the rest of the work involved.
02:56:22LloreanMost of the work should be generally useful for future application ports to other targets (hopefully)
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03:01:56stingray_shreyhmm thanks for the info!
03:02:05stingray_shreymust be going now, but will be sure to come back tomorrow
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04:29:33AlexandreGuedesHello
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04:30:05bubsyhi there AlexandreGuedes
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04:31:04AlexandreGuedesbubsy there is a mentor here ?
04:32:20bubsywell, maybe
04:32:28bubsyjust ask
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04:33:31AlexandreGuedesok,..
04:33:52AlexandreGuedesbubsy: You are taking part in gsoc ?
04:34:01bubsyno
04:34:48AlexandreGuedesyou are developer ? or something like..
04:35:13bubsyyes, but I'm still learning C a bit (I know it well, but still)
04:35:23bubsyI don't feel I know it enough to dev for rockbox
04:35:49AlexandreGuedesohh.
04:36:11AlexandreGuedeswhere are you from ?
04:36:16bubsyNorway
04:36:17krazykitAlexandreGuedes, many of the mentors are european and are quite likely to be asleep right now
04:36:22kkurbjunAlexandreGuedes: the mornings (MST at least) are usually more active in here in terms of developers
04:36:36kkurbjun(what krazykit said) :)
04:36:57bubsyAlexandreGuedes: I meant "maybe there are some mentors in here", I didn't mean "well, maybe I am"
04:36:59bubsysorry for that
04:36:59AlexandreGuedeskkurbjun:
04:37:06AlexandreGuedesthanks
04:37:31kkurbjunno problem
04:37:34AlexandreGuedesbubsy: no problem
04:37:39LloreanAlexandreGuedes: Did you have a specific question of some sort? Is a mentor necessary?
04:38:00AlexandreGuedesnothing specific
04:38:32AlexandreGuedesi just want talk a little bit
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04:39:52AlexandreGuedesSomeone here already developed something for Rockbox ?
04:40:33kkurbjunAlexandreGuedes: to be clear on Llorean's question there are developers around, but relatively few are involved in gsoc. I am a developer, but I have little gsoc involvement (practically none now).
04:41:14AlexandreGuedesok I understand
04:42:19kkurbjunif you have specific questions on rockbox and you throw them out people with knowledge will tend to answer if they are around
04:43:16AlexandreGuedeskkurbjun: I am going to try to develop something for GSOC...
04:44:30AlexandreGuedeskkurbjun: about simulators..
04:44:59AlexandreGuedesHow I could test my packages ?
04:46:03kkurbjunLlorean: is there a formal place that students can submit their applications to? I was looking at the wiki and I saw the template, but I didn't see that there was a place where they should be applying. the few I've seen came in on the mailing lists though..
04:46:17Lloreankkurbjun: They apply at the gsoc site
04:46:17kkurbjunAlexandreGuedes: how do you mean test your packages?
04:46:25scorchekkurbjun: the GSoC website..
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04:47:02scorchekkurbjun: and the template on that wiki page is pre-inserted into the app form
04:47:02kkurbjunLlorean, scorche, ahh, gotcha, I missed that. makes sense that they would go through there :)
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04:49:26AlexandreGuedeskkurbjun: There are simulators for each platform ?
04:50:10scorcheAlexandreGuedes: any target can be complied as a simulator build through the build process...however what "packages" are you referring to that you wish to test?
04:51:23AlexandreGuedesPackages that I developed
04:51:35scorche"packages"?
04:51:45scorcheare you referring to patches or something?
04:51:55AlexandreGuedesyes
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04:52:31scorchethe simulator can only test certain things, as it is a simulator and not an emulator...a real device is typically required for proper testing
04:52:37AlexandreGuedesscorche I confused the words
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04:54:21AlexandreGuedesscorche Ok, but it is possible to develop without a real device ?
04:54:45kkurbjunAlexandreGuedes: You can still do development on the simulator, but it depends on what you are planning on developing, as long as you are not touching the high level functions and are not writing assembly it is possible to just use the simulator
04:54:52scorchesort of, but as far as GSoC is concerned, if you are accepted and lack a DAP for development, i am sure something will be arranged...
04:55:10kkurbjunbut if it's something that could be power hungry you won't really get a feel for what optimizations need to be done
04:55:58kkurbjunthe simulators don't really simulate the real device's processing power, only the functionality
04:57:58AlexandreGuedesyes that is true
04:58:44kkurbjunsorry, to be correct, I mean touching low level aspects of rockbox
04:59:41AlexandreGuedesI develop cel applications and I know how it works.
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05:00:35AlexandreGuedesWhich the device with more demand ? iPod ?
05:01:12kkurbjunI couldn't say for sure, gigabeat F's are pretty popular
05:01:27scorchewell many devices are similar in many aspects...arch, chips, etc...it would depend on the project
05:02:01kkurbjunbut we try to include features for all the supported devices if possible
05:02:22*scorche nods
05:03:29kkurbjunthe ipods are a bit difficult if you are interested in working on lower level portions of the hardware since there is no real documentation on the chips used
05:03:41kkurbjungigabeat F's are pretty well documented
05:03:47AlexandreGuedeshmmm
05:04:24kkurbjunthe AMS devices are pretty well documented from my understanding
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05:05:00kkurbjunthe coldfires are as well
05:05:29cspotcodeI only have a Sansa c240, but I'm mostly interested in working on the player manager application. Will that be an issue, or would it be better to have a more powerful player?
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05:05:43kkurbjunand I think the gigabeat S has a descent amount of documentation
05:06:17AlexandreGuedesthanks...
05:07:16scorchecspotcode: that should be fine
05:07:36cspotcodescorche: ok, thanks
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05:14:35AlexandreGuedesscorche: Where I can find the list with mentors' name ?
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05:15:38scorcheAlexandreGuedes: for what purpose?...as of this point you can just treat the entire community as your mentor...if you ask specific questions that need a specific person, we can direct you to them
05:18:36AlexandreGuedesok, i want to know if abou convert Rockbox to an application that runs on a cellphone...
05:18:49AlexandreGuedessorry..
05:19:02AlexandreGuedesok, i want to know about convert Rockbox to an application that runs on a cellphone...
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05:20:23scorchewhat do you wish to know about it?
05:23:06AlexandreGuedesIf that would be an interesting development offer for gsoc..
05:23:54kkurbjunThere has been some talk on it on the mailing list, but I don't know if there was a consensus on how the final project should appear.
05:24:47kkurbjunthere is some debate on the scope of the work that project would/should entail
05:26:04kkurbjunit looks like there is some interest in that particular project from others as well: http://www.rockbox.org/mail/archive/rockbox-dev-archive-2009-03/0363.shtml
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05:27:28AlexandreGuedeskkurbjun: thanks
05:27:45AlexandreGuedesThat will help me
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05:43:58JdGordonwho wants to help debug a codec switching issue?
05:44:13*JdGordon doesnt see why he should keep the fun to himself
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05:47:19dreamlayersHello
05:47:39Unhelpfulbelated congrats on your status :)
05:48:22dreamlayersThanks :)
05:49:42dreamlayersI was just testing wm8758 sample rate changing via test_sampr, and I found that volume changes are glitchy, especially at 44100 Hz. Are they supposed to be smooth?
05:50:24JdGordonsmooth is always nice...
05:50:28Unhelpful"glitchy" as in the go back and forth a bit on change? or just that they're "instant" rather than faded?
05:50:54dreamlayersThere are clicks or something like that sometimes.
05:51:26dreamlayersI haven't noticed that when playing music.
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05:52:17JdGordonanyone know if logf() is buffered in the sim?
05:52:58dreamlayersJdGordon: I still had to go to the debug menu to write it to a file.
05:53:31JdGordonwell, the sim dumps it to stdout/err but im trying to debug threading issues so i dont know how acurate it is
05:54:32UnhelpfulJdGordon: no idea. i have a macro set somewhere that does debugf if you're building for sim, logf for target. there's a similar macro in svn somewhere, also, i think.
05:55:15JdGordonjhMikeS: is queue_reply() blocking?
05:56:05JdGordon... doenst look like it
05:56:08JdGordongrr
05:57:57JdGordonso, it looks like it might be trying to replace the codec while its still running!
05:58:16JdGordonalthough, that makes no sense at all...
05:58:23dreamlayersActually, it's not that volume changes in test_sampr are glitchy; the problem is that list scrolling in the plugin causes audio buffer underruns.
05:58:56Unhelpfuldreamlayers: perhaps extra yields are needed?
06:00
06:02:30dreamlayersUnhelpful: Perhaps, but not in test_sampr. While this is happening, the plugin is in rb->set_int. This may be related to the underruns in Doom.
06:03:37dreamlayersJdGordon: how hard is it to reproduce that problem?
06:04:00Unhelpfulhrm, can you trigger it with other plugins that use rb->set_int? or with core users of it?
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06:04:33JdGordondreamlayers: not at all in the sim... and i tinhk i might be wrong about that... but this is a bug anyway
06:04:42JdGordontrying to get the codec failed problem in 9795
06:05:09JdGordonmanually swicthing from wma > mp3 seems to cause the track to be skipped
06:06:19dreamlayersUnhelpful: A few seconds of rapid scrolling through a list with long text can repeatably cause music to stop for a bit. I never get short glitches however.
06:09:43kkurbjunJdGordon: have you gotten a chance to try the newer M:robe 500 builds?
06:09:59kkurbjunchanging the volume seems to work smoothly for me now
06:10:18kkurbjunwell it did before, but SVN is uptodate with my tree now
06:10:42JdGordonnot yet, really trying to get 9795 finished
06:11:12dreamlayerskkurbjun: did you try it in test_sampr? (It's not built by default.)
06:12:03kkurbjundreamlayers: I think this issue is a separate one from what you are working on
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06:18:36dreamlayersJdGordon: Ok, that was easy to reproduce. I get a codec failure in the 5G sim every time I try to switch WMA to MP3.
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06:18:57JdGordona virtual beer fr you if you can figure it out :D
06:19:05JdGordonim a bit stumped...
06:19:20JdGordonI cant seem to reproduce it with any other codecs
06:19:27JdGordonand only after manual track skipping also
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06:40:31saratogaJdGordon: is this on PP?
06:41:02JdGordonthe sim...
06:41:08saratogaah
06:41:14JdGordonand reported on PP on target also
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06:49:23dreamlayersThe WMA codec returns failure. I guess ci.new_track shouldn't be zero where the codec return state is checked? I guess the codec also shouldn't return failure when you skip to the next track.
06:50:13JdGordonoh crud... yeah I kept tihnking the next codec was returning failure... not wma
06:50:33dreamlayersThe next codec doesn't even run because of this.
06:53:43JdGordonwell im confused
06:54:05lucentdo any devs available happen to know why MP3 playback suffers on AMS Sansa targets?
06:54:17lucenti.e. play mp3 file => player reboots
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06:55:03lucentbtw congrats to funman on resolving the >2GB file access and bank-switching routines
06:56:06JdGordondreamlayers: it looks like status is CODEC_ERROR and ci.new_track==0 when the fail happens
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06:57:12dreamlayersJdGordon: Correct
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07:00:22dreamlayersIn wma.c, ci->request_next_track() is true after the track is done, and that's what leads to the codec failure.
07:02:55JdGordonwhich it should because wma isnt the correct codec for the next track
07:03:37dreamlayersBut that causes it to try to decode the next track.
07:03:58dreamlayersIt should return false.
07:04:14JdGordonoh misread..
07:06:09JdGordonok, so that prev_codectype check looks like it might be pointing to the new track and not the previous one... but why would that only happen with wma?
07:07:44JdGordonno, its pointing correctly... changing it to othertrack_id3 causes wma to fail every time
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07:07:57JdGordonsaratoga: is this possibly a wma issue and not playback?
07:09:40dreamlayersMaybe other codecs return CODEC_OK when this happens?
07:11:39dreamlayersGoing from MP3 to WMA also results in "New track loaded". In that case the next track is just briefly displayed on the screen and it doesn't play.
07:12:03JdGordonso wma here is correct?
07:13:47dreamlayersI don't know what's the proper thing to do when a functioning codec is given a file it cannot play. If returning CODEC_ERROR is acceptable, then WMA is correct.
07:14:09JdGordonthat sounds sensible to me
07:16:44JdGordonno, something fishy is happening... the id3 sturct switching should happen during the codec_load_next_track() call... but apparently thistrack_d3 is already poingint to the next one before that
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07:17:21JdGordonwhich means the rest is doing as it is supposed to...
07:17:36dreamlayersThe value of thistrack_id3 changes, so that's like there are two copies of the same track.
07:18:59JdGordonbut only if wma is involved
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07:20:20JdGordonno, i take that back
07:20:24JdGordonseems to be always
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07:24:21dreamlayersWhen I switch tracks, the copy_mp3entry call in audio_update_trackinfo copies the id3 of the track that is ending.
07:25:56dreamlayersSorry, ignore that, I'm wrong.
07:26:07JdGordon.. thistrack_id3 at that point is the new track
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07:31:31dreamlayersIn codec_request_next_track_callback, mp3entry_buf[0] and mp3entry_buf[1] are both the track that should be starting.
07:32:11JdGordonon entry?
07:33:23JdGordonI guess its redundant to say that shouldnt ever be possible right? :(
07:36:27JdGordonaudio_loadcodec could be the problem
07:38:27JdGordonaudio_finish_load_track even.... track_id3 gets the new tracks id3 but doesnt seem to be stored anywhere... audio_loadcodec sets ci.id3 to thistrack_id3 though
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07:39:40JdGordonI'm even slightly surprised this works at all if that is the case
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07:39:44dreamlayersYes, the structs have the same contents on entry.
07:43:31dreamlayersWhile the first track is playing, they're fine. thistrack is the current track and othertrack is the next track.
07:45:43JdGordonyeah, audio_loadcodec just looks wrong, around line 1600
07:48:13dreamlayersIn audio_check_new_track, "Update the main buffer copy of the track metadata with the one the codec has been using (for the unbuffer callbacks)" seems wrong. At that point, thistrack_id3 has already been cleared.
07:48:40JdGordonignore that line from me.... that codepath isnt being used during track change
07:50:16JdGordonhmm... yeah
07:50:35JdGordonI wonder why that call is there anyway?
07:51:37dreamlayersI don't know either. I'm not investigating further now because it seems unrelated to the bug we're talking about.
07:52:01JdGordonthat memset is new in the patch, that copy though is old
07:53:06JdGordonand yes, a different problem...
07:53:19*JdGordon adds a FIXME to the code
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08:03:58dreamlayersThe bufread in audio_current_track overwrites thistrack_id3 with the new track's data.
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08:07:20JdGordonyeah, thats correct isnt it?
08:08:18dreamlayersBut why do it? The next track's info already was at othertrack_id3.
08:09:29JdGordonthat should be a very rare case though, thats an external api and should only happen after the track has started, which means it might even be dead code
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08:10:18dreamlayersI'm saying this actually happens when I press the right arrow to switch tracks.
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08:10:52JdGordonok, yeah right... I see...
08:12:05dreamlayersBefore that point mp3entry_buf[0] was the first track, and [1] was the next track. That overwrites [0] with the next track.
08:12:23JdGordonnico_P mentioned this a while ago but we (possibly wrongly) thought this was a almost never thing...
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08:13:29JdGordonchanging that to return othertrack_id3 works.. but looks wrong
08:13:41dreamlayersaudio_current_track() is how the WPS gets the current track's id3.
08:13:49JdGordonyes
08:14:17JdGordonwell.... the UI in general... not just the WPS
08:16:53JdGordonoh SON OF A....
08:17:01JdGordon*penny drops*
08:19:24dreamlayersWhat happened?
08:20:38JdGordonso user presses next, wps calls audio_next and then does a full redraw (which includes audio_current_track)... but because playback has already started preparing for the next track the read idx has moved so audio_current_track thins we have moved on already and does the bufread causin both id3 structs to be the same
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08:23:22JdGordonso it just needs a safeguard for that tiny time slot
08:23:27JdGordonwhich adds more mess :/
08:23:35JdGordonall glory to dreamlayers!
08:24:11dreamlayersLOL Thanks! :)
08:25:07dreamlayersYour explanation of what is happening seems reasonable, but I feel it's still to early to conclude what needs to be done because I don't understand the code enough.
08:25:47JdGordonsure, but at least now we are fairly sure what the damn issue is
08:25:56dreamlayersYep!
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08:29:07oceanlhi, I'm a student looking into the google summer of code program, I was looking through the project ideas section, and the project titled "Rockbox as an Application" seem like a pretty interesting project, but it doesn't have very much detail about the project on the page, so I was wondering what kind of requirements it has. And also how much commitment will I have to invest into the project starting now. Becau
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08:30:01JdGordonyou got but off...
08:30:09JdGordonat Becau
08:30:38oceanlBecause right now I'm still in the middle of a semester, and with the classes that I'm taking I don't think I can spare a lot of time for stuff oustide of class.
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08:32:22JdGordonthe offical stance on GSoC is that it is supposed to be a full time job for the whole period
08:32:39*JdGordon thinks thats rediculous going byu the pay but has no say in the matter
08:32:51JdGordonyou're looking at 30+ hours a week expected
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08:40:12JdGordonoceanl: im going to bed now so not very helpful... but do a search in the irc logs from the last few days for raaa and rockbox as an app (http://rockbox.org/irc) and have a read... there are a few students wanting to do this so its been discussed a bit... also there recently was a thread on the developer mailing list (check rockbox.org for the archives) talking about it also
08:41:13 Nick JdGordon is now known as JdGordon|zzz (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
08:41:27oceanlthank you
08:41:38dreamlayersGoodnight. I need to go to sleep also.
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11:07:40PaulJamhi, there seems to be a problem with the rockboxdev script when trying to install multiple compilers. the first one gets build, but for the second one i get the message "You already have a /tmp/rbdev-build directory! Please remove it and re-run the script".
11:08:03GodEaterditto - I got that too
11:08:17GodEaterhaven't delved into it to find the fix yet though
11:08:25GodEaterprobably a missing "rm" somewhere
11:09:26B4gderprobably yes, people moved around the logic in there recently...
11:10:27GodEaterthere isn't an "all" option anymore is there ?
11:10:50B4gderno you specify them with multiple letters instead
11:11:07B4gder"m a i" etc
11:12:21Mode"#rockbox +o scorche " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
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11:16:24Topic"Please read before speaking: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/IrcGuidelines | Good news! After 5 months of negotiations, Apple has finally agreed to our terms and Rockbox is now an enthusiasic part of Apple's development team! Devs - please stop reporting errors with SVN access - it has been revoked." by scorche (n=scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
11:18:17B4gderfinally!
11:18:30*scorche toasts B4gder
11:18:56*gevaerts feels left out
11:19:02gevaertsYou didn't tell me about this!
11:19:19Zagorwe couldn't tell anyone during negotiations
11:19:48scorchegevaerts: sorry...as per Apple's terms, we could only talk to certain people who were going to be absorbed
11:20:16*gevaerts talks to his lawyer
11:22:09Topic"Please read before speaking: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/IrcGuidelines | Good news! After 5 months of negotiations, Apple has finally agreed to our terms and Rockbox is now an enthusiasic part of Apple's development team! | Devs: please stop reporting errors with SVN access - it has been revoked. | Users: only iPod builds will now be downloadable" by scorche (n=scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
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11:29:54Topic"Please read before speaking: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/IrcGuidelines | Good news! After 5 months of negotiations, Apple has finally agreed to our terms and Rockbox is now an enthusiasic part of Apple's development team! | Devs: please stop reporting errors with SVN access - it has been revoked. | Users: only iPod builds will now be downloadable. Any further distribution of unsupported builds is a breach of copyright and will be dealt with" by scorche (n=scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
11:30:01Mode"#rockbox -o scorche " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
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11:33:51kugelhehe nice one
11:35:29kugelI suppose I can do a commit, which changes the contents of every file to /* APPLE PROPERTY */ ?
11:35:38scorcheno
11:36:04scorcheyour commit access has been revoked according to the terms of Apple's contract
11:36:21kugeloh
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11:36:43kugelfine, the forums should have an announcement too
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13:19:42funmandid the forum layout change ? i can't find the sansa ams thread
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13:23:01funmanah I found the Apple AMS one, great
13:23:54LambdaCalculus37Has Apple opened up the iPod Classic and newer nanos for us yet? :)
13:28:26gevaertsLambdaCalculus37: http://files.hostname.be/ipodnano-datasheet.bz2
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13:36:56MunkieWhat does all this stuff with apple mean?
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14:52:26hundenI just found out that rockbox features a built-in gameboy emulator. On my nano however, neither gb nor gbc files are seen in the file browser. If I rename the roms to something known I can see the files and choose the Open with option. What am I doing wrong?
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14:53:49Lloreanhunden: What's your File View setting set to?
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14:55:04dropandhophey guys
14:55:49dropandhopsorry for the lame question...but i couldn't find the answer anywhere
14:56:09dropandhopdoes this apple contract mean no more development on other hardware?
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14:56:59Zagorfirst and foremost, it means lots and lots of cash!
14:57:05Zagorfor me, at least
14:57:12dropandhopoy
14:57:50peturwith all that cash, we can buy a big calendar :)
14:57:52dropandhopthis change seems to go against the goal of rockbox
14:57:58dropandhopi'm confused
14:58:20dropandhop(and dissapointed)
14:58:22*gevaerts votes to pay someone to improve the calendar plugin
14:58:42Zagorpetur: nah, my new apple products already show the date in the most awesome manner possible
14:58:46B4gderI heard the Calendar team will do that now
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14:59:30*gevaerts thinks he may still have the source. Time for a fork?
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14:59:55Zagorgevaerts: good luck finding my time bomb. mohahaha
15:00
15:00:13dropandhopis there any chance of the other platforms being developed in another manner
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15:00:42peturdropandhop: not today, no. Maybe starting tomorrow
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15:01:42peturdropandhop: as in *after* april 1st?
15:01:56dropandhopno way!
15:01:59dropandhopthis is all bs?!
15:02:10dropandhop(i am sooo slow)
15:02:18Zagor:-)
15:02:24dropandhopha!
15:02:24*B4gder makes the little drumroll
15:02:33dropandhopu guys freaked me out
15:02:35dropandhopseriously
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15:04:50dropandhopi just got my sansa clip..i was sooo bumed
15:04:54dropandhopthat was genious
15:05:00dropandhopcan't wait to show my friends!
15:05:08dropandhopgood work guys
15:06:14B4gderdropandhop: welcome to the rockbox community!
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15:27:09hundenLlorean I did not know about that setting. Changed from music to supported. Thank you very much
15:27:28GodEaterhunden, it should be in the manual :)
15:27:53funmanFlynDice: hi! did you try to apply jhMikeS remark on your MMU patch ?
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15:36:20dropandhopbye guya
15:36:23dropandhopguys
15:36:30dropandhopamazing april 1st!
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15:52:21dionoeayou guys don't do it half way when joking ... you even changed the forum categories!
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15:53:29gevaertsjoking? Where?
15:53:54ArtificialGekkoHello, I have a problem with Rockbox on the Sansa e200. I looked through the documentation but I can't find help.
15:54:00dionoeawe already did the apple joke 2 years ago :) (For VideoLAN ... so we had to resort to something less obvious this year :D)
15:55:04dionoeaArtificialGekko: describing your problem might help.
15:55:17ArtificialGekkoAll of a sudden Rockbox would not display files in the filebrowser anymore
15:55:35ArtificialGekkoThe files seem to be there because they appear in the database and can be played from there without a problem.
15:56:05ArtificialGekkoIn the "Files" Section of the main menu however there is only empty folders of the albums I transferred to the Sansa.
15:56:09LloreanArtificialGekko: You may have changed your file view setting. You should check what it's set to.
15:56:25dionoeamaybe you just need to change the show files settings
15:56:34dionoeajust long press the menu button
15:56:43ArtificialGekkoAlright, looking for those in the menu
15:56:55dionoea(or whatever the down button is called)
15:57:14ArtificialGekkoIt seems like that happened ever since rockbox crashe in the middle of playback about two weeks ago.
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15:58:24ArtificialGekkoOh wow, that actually did the trick. Thank you, it was set to "show playlits only"
15:58:55ArtificialGekko*slaps forehead* Now that was simple. I wonder how it happened, though, I surely did not set it like that. :)
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16:00:19ArtificialGekkoAlso, does anybody know how I can keep the MUSIC folder from turning invisible every time I connect the sansa to the computer?
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16:01:31ZagorArtificialGekko: the simple solution is to put your music in another folder
16:03:33B4gderhttp://macku.to.pl/rockbox/rockbox.html
16:03:37B4gderfancy
16:03:42LloreanArtificialGekko: Or use a build of Rockbox with USB enable, and never go into the original firmware
16:03:46B4gderbut somehow I think it lacks the rockbox "style"
16:04:10LloreanB4gder: And my eyes seem to be drawn to "Buyer's Guide"
16:04:54ArtificialGekkoI updated to the current build yesterday, so I should have usb enabled I guess.
16:05:09ArtificialGekkoThe database will still find files that are not in the original MUSIC folder?
16:05:30 Part LinusN
16:05:46LloreanThe database has no restrictions on where file are, as long as it's not someplace you've told it to ignore
16:06:27ArtificialGekkoAlright I didn't know that. Thank you very much for your help, everyone! :)
16:07:22dionoeaB4gder: That concept is awesome!
16:07:24ZagorB4gder: that looks pretty good
16:07:39Zagorthe white-on-lightgray links at the top are not so good though
16:07:46dionoeaFeels a tiny bit too "corporate" ... but overall it rocks
16:07:52B4gderstraight from => http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=12607.0
16:09:05B4gderthe guy clearly has skills in design
16:09:38LloreanI still don't really like all-orange pages.
16:10:10LloreanIt's a nice page, but it's not one I'd want to use or see regularly.
16:12:28markunI like that it's user oriented
16:13:00jaykaythe same in blue maybe?
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16:13:55BigBambiI quite like that too
16:14:01markunI don't mind the colours so much. I had to get used to http://www.scummvm.org/ as well.
16:14:09BigBambiThe colours could be tweaked a bit
16:14:31BigBambiBut it'd be a bit of a shock to click on something and then shoved into the wiki
16:14:32LloreanIt feels like it's very noisy.
16:14:38LloreanThere's navigation split between two or three areas
16:14:41BigBambi(for instance)
16:14:58BigBambiand I'm not rure how e.g. the wiki would fit into a style like that
16:15:11LloreanAnd it's pretty lacking in actual information for users.
16:15:29markunthe "about rockbox" part is very optimistic :)
16:15:35LloreanThere's a lot of links, but the whole page basically tells a user "you have to go somewhere else before you know anything, hope you pick right"
16:15:42FlynDicefunman: Yes, I made a few changesfrom that info, I'll post something when I get back in tonight, gotta go take some poeple to LA right now though. Thanks for confirming that it's operating!!
16:16:09BigBambiI do like it in general though
16:16:16ZagorLlorean: history seems to indicate that is what users expect
16:16:45LloreanZagor: Possibly. Even then, the navigation is split between that middle bar thing, and the top bar.
16:17:08Zagoryeah it's far from perfect. but very pretty :)
16:17:25LloreanI did say it's nice looking. :-P
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16:19:23LloreanAlso, four of six links in the big white bar aren't actually places I'd send first time users.
16:19:29markunand I would expect some "developers corner" link or something with info similar to our current homepage.
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16:20:27LloreanFeatureComparison is kinda showing its age. Target Status is very much not useful to new users. We don't even have a screenshots page yet (we could just send them to themes. maybe) and the FAQ is probably not the FAQ a pre-user would ask
16:20:38LloreanBut that's something that can all be fixed, anyway
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16:28:09rasherLlorean: We *do* have a screenshots page!
16:28:23rasherhttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/ScreenShots
16:28:33rasherSomewhat dated...
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16:28:59Lloreanrasher: Wow, I don't remember that at all
16:29:13ArtificialGekkoRockbox definitely needs Nethack ;)
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16:29:30rasherLlorean: It was never featured very prominently
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16:29:55rasherBut people like screenshots, so Someone should probably update them
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16:31:01Lloreanrasher: Maybe someone should generate a page that creates a screenshot gallery off of the manuals. :-P
16:31:15rasherLlorean: That's not a bad idea, really
16:31:44rasherSince we control both, we can just hotlink the images from the manual
16:31:59LloreanExactly
16:32:14rasherI don't think we need anything fancy, just replace the current pages with pages that hotlink to the manual
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16:37:01rasherHurray, another OK for the theme relicensing.
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16:39:05rasherOnly the marquee theme left now.
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16:45:58*rasher notices something weird in the h300 manual
16:46:15rasherhttp://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-h300/rockbox_interface/images/ss-virtual-keyboard-220x176x16.png isn't quite 220x176
16:46:48LloreanThat is a bit odd
16:48:01rasherProducing screenshots can be a tiresome job, I'm sure
16:49:02LloreanHmmm
16:49:09Llorean"Manual screenshot tool" could be a GSoC app.
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16:53:18rasherOkay, so we probably don't want *all* of those, but there's a good selection to pick from at least: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/ScreenShots16bpp
16:54:35LloreanI'd say the Rockboy one is misleading
16:54:45LloreanIt plays GBC games, and that looks _very_ NES because it's a GBC port of an NES game
16:55:47B4gderhttp://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-h300/plugins/images/ss-snake-220x176x16.png is great!
16:55:48B4gder;-)
16:56:59funmanvery representative
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17:05:36bubsyWHOA
17:05:40bubsywhat a colorful picture
17:05:42bubsyand sooo many details
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17:39:02AleMaxxanybody interested in porting rockbox to rk270x players?
17:39:24GodEaternever heard of them
17:40:03ZagorAleMaxx: ?
17:40:03AleMaxxthats a rockchip soc with arm7 core and dsp
17:40:11LloreanAleMaxx: You don't really port to a system on a chip
17:40:25LloreanYou port to a specific player, because there's generally still differences in button layout, LCD, etc.
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17:41:01LloreanYou do end up with a lot of reusable code for future port attempts though, if there are many similar players
17:41:30AleMaxxwell, i have some valueable information but currently im a bit disillusioned
17:41:47Zagorthe question is how common is the player. there are so many chinese players that you rarely find two people with the same player...
17:42:03AleMaxxtheyre quite common i guess
17:42:42AleMaxxsome onda players use them, ramos and my player is compatible to a player called "Ramos T8"
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17:43:44AleMaxxI think a first step has to be to have some kind of USB bootloader or port your gdb-arm-stub to that player
17:44:40AleMaxxI wrote a tool that lets you modify the firmware or create a new firmware file and there is an SDK available on the internet
17:45:05ZagorI mean the player, not the chip. I assume not every player with that chip has the same buttons and display?
17:46:12AleMaxxZagor, youre right. But I dont see a problem for the keys, theyre all handled by gpio, so you could configure them easily
17:46:36AleMaxxsadly my player has no key (except for the on/off slider) but only a touchscreen
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17:46:48Zagoryes, the problem is rather we'd end up with a gazillion different ports
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17:47:56ZagorI'm not saying it shouldn't or couldn't be done though. just that this wide market of chinese players put us in a different position.
17:47:59AleMaxxwell, I dont think there needs to be a port for every key-layout but of course for the displays
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17:48:57Zagorif you have links for the sdk and your tools, please put them here for future reference. (the channel is logged)
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17:50:28Zagorgoogle finds three (3) english pages containing "rk270x" :-)
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17:51:21AleMaxxfor the tool, i havent uploaded the patch tool but here is my starting point: http://alemaxx.al.funpic.de/rk_crc32.tar.bz2
17:51:40AleMaxxZagor, try rk2708 or 6
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17:52:05Zagorah, that's better
17:52:39AleMaxxfor the SDK, the link is somewhere here: http://mympxplayer.org/1-vt12634.html
17:54:07AleMaxxZagor, there might even be very cheap versions of the player, I just ordered one of these: http://www.bestofferbuy.com/3-inch-wide-lcd-tft-169-touch-screen-mp4-player-1gb-p-6630.html (i highly suspect this uses either rk270x or ingenics)
17:54:26AleMaxxand theres one that even cheaper with a 2.8" display
17:54:26Zagorwe have an ingenic port already
17:54:46AleMaxxZagor, yes, I read about that
17:55:12AleMaxxIngenics also has better "developer support" I guess
17:55:31webguest23Hi all −− apart from putting a bug entry in the tracker, is there another way to draw attention to a pretty major bug?
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17:56:43gevaertswebguest23: putting it on the tracker is always good, but you can tell us here
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17:58:35dionoeaender`: great quit message :) I love it
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18:00
18:00:17*JdGordon prods kugel to fs#10085
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18:01:03archivatorHow are rockbox core executables scrambled? Why not just ELF might be my next question.. :)
18:01:07kugelJdGordon: We know of that one :)
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18:01:31kugelIt's an old bug actually, however you told that 9795 will fix it, so I wasn't exactly rushing for a fix
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18:02:13JdGordonill hopefully finish 9795 tonight so.. yeah....
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18:02:37kugelnice
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18:03:20webguest56I think it's specific to the Archos Jukebox Recorder. Basically, if shuffle is on and you power down, when you resume playback after power up, it resumes on the wrong song and forgets that shuffle is on. This bug goes back to before 3.1 at least. Info is here: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9822
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18:14:31BdN3504Can you edit Project news? "After months of negotiations, Apple has finally agreed to our terms and Rockbox is now an enthusiasic part of Apple's development team!"
18:14:51BdN3504enthusiasic -> enthusiastic
18:14:58BdN3504thanks
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18:42:20UbuntuxerI request to extend the lib highscore.h, so that the function highscore_update() returns the position of the input.
18:43:08kugelthere's no requesting
18:43:17Llorean Ubuntuxer: If it needs extended to perform a certain task, why not post the patch that uses the extended version?
18:46:53Ubuntuxertask: 9953 (games_rework.patch); your last highscore is highlighted
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18:48:31Ubuntuxerif we change the lib, it wouldn't have any effect on other plugins which use this lib
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19:12:05BdN3504i am awfully sorry, but i'm afraid i can't share your sense of humour. i imagine how i'd tell my girlfriend:"hey you know, today the rockbox devs did something really funny! they removed all other supported targets except for the ipod! Can you believe that?" wtf? http://tinyurl.com/thisISnotFUNNY
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19:12:58LloreanBdN3504: Have you, for example, looked at the current build page?
19:13:16LloreanI would think it's painfully obvious, myself.
19:13:33LloreanIt would be trivial to deny people access to all non-Apple downloads.
19:13:37kugelBdN3504: would your girlfriend even care?
19:15:10*Buschel 's wife would praise the lord :-)
19:15:51Buschel(even though I do not spend that much time with rockbox right now)
19:16:03*Llorean isn't sure if he's insulted that people think we would botch a transition so badly if we did enter such a contract.
19:16:50*domonoky reads the news on the rockbox website, and demands his share of the cash :-)
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19:17:10Lloreandomonoky: Everyone who signed the contract has already had their cash distributed.
19:17:55domonokyso i am left out ? *grr* ;-)
19:18:13BuschelLlorean: I just experienced such on another forum (HiFi) where I am active. It was closed within 30 minutes after the announcement
19:19:34kugeldomonoky: I heard the cash distribution to the rest of the team is yet to be decided. Rumors say it's going to be based off the total points one got in the build table
19:20:01domonoky*hehe*
19:20:11kugelso, I'm not expecting to receive something at all :(
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19:25:30LloreanI can at least make it clear that points in the build table will neither increase nor decrease any payments from this deal. :-P
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19:29:06archivatorDo we at least get the BCM specs? :P
19:29:41domonokyarchivator: its the other way round. BCM gets the rockbox specs :-)
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19:37:28MunkieWhat does this stuff about apple with the ipods
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19:37:57JdGordon|404: english not found
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20:18:26MTlinuxstb : I've extended the rm parser a bit, it's now able to display all of the file's info (+audio stream info) till the end of the DATA chunk.
20:19:46merbananMT: what are you going to use a rm demuxer for ?
20:20:35MTlinuxstb : and the code is uploaded to a svn repo on sourceforge if you want to check it, there is a weird bug though in the part when reading the header of the type specific data (audio stream info)
20:21:33MTmerbana : I wanted to add support for RM in rockbox, and I applied to do it as a gsoc project.
20:22:11MT* merbanan
20:22:28merbananonly the demuxer or also the decoder ?
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20:22:37merbanansome decoders*
20:22:55kugeleverything that's needed to play rm
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20:23:11MTprimary goal : rm demuxer + cook decoder (then add more decoders later, maybe even after soc ends)
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20:23:48merbanankugel: ok, so you mean, 5 flavours of speech codecs, cook, ralf and aac ?
20:24:18*kugel hides again
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20:25:28merbanan:)
20:25:49MT:D kugel
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20:36:56ErantSo, at risk of breaching copyright here, has there ever been a port of rockbox to something not directly an MP3 player?
20:37:19kugelyes
20:37:33ErantLike?
20:37:40kugelPCs and some Motorola mobiles
20:39:08bluebrotherwhy is porting to a non-mp3-player breaching copyright?
20:40:00Erant"Users: only iPod builds will now be downloadable. Any further distribution of unsupported builds is a breach of copyright and will be dealt with"
20:40:02Erant;)
20:40:19gevaertswell, there's always the iphone :)
20:40:42ErantI was actually thinking of porting it to something like this: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.14585
20:41:14ErantI'm going to wild guess and say it's probably ARM based. There's the offchance of it being MIPS.
20:41:41Erant*take
20:41:44gevaertsthat could work
20:41:59ErantIt's far too big for a GSoC project, but I don't mind.
20:42:26linuxstbErant: The first thing would be to try and find out if the firmware is upgradable.
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20:43:05gevaertsI'm pretty sure that "port to a device unknown hardware, possibly ARM, possibly with upgradeable firmware" wouldn't get ranked very high on the GSoC list :)
20:43:19ErantIt is, but there's no firmware out there. It's going to be my big pal the level converter, or the wiggler.
20:43:26Erantgevaerts: I'm not even considering doing that.
20:43:37ErantStrictly non-gsoc project.
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20:44:21ErantAnd if worse comes to worse, it's going to be my other big friend, the FPGA board with a NAND reader.
20:44:46linuxstbErant: A Rockbox port is a lot of work, so it would be a more worthwhile project if you found "family" of photo frames, preferably by different manufacturers that are based on the same chipset.
20:45:28ErantThat's more what I wanted to ask. What is rockbox based on?
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20:46:06 Quit JdGordon| ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
20:46:07kugelIt's written from scratch
20:46:20kugelfrom zero to hero, you know. It's not based on anything
20:46:20linuxstbWhat do you mean? Rockbox runs on many different devices/chipsets.
20:46:58Erantkugel: Sweet. I'm assuming there's still a kernel-land and a user-land?
20:47:41gevaertsnot really. The code is split into firmware/ and apps/, but there's no privilege separation
20:47:43linuxstbNot really. It's just a monolithic blob
20:47:49Erantk
20:47:59ErantTime to read some code.
20:48:24gevaertsPlugins are compiled separately, but when loaded they can still pretty much do what they want
20:48:29merbananMT: ok, anyway, I'm the author of the ffmpeg cook codec, if you have any questions I'm happy to answer
20:48:39 Quit StealthyXIIGer (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:49:33Erantgevaerts: Well, not that it matters much as far as porting goes.
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20:50:03ErantFirst things first though. Let's order this puppy
20:50:25 Quit Seed ("cu, Andre")
20:53:13MTmerbanan : wow thanks for your help, I really had some (read : lots of :) qustions in cook decoder. but I have to go now, what times are you available ? (or maybe I could reach you by e-mail if it's ok with you ?)
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21:01:10linuxstbmerbanan: What's the status of converting your cook decoder to fixed-point? I recall seeing some patches on the ffmpeg-dev list a long time ago - were any of them committed?
21:02:41merbananlinuxstb: the floating point routines are abstracted as function pointers
21:02:55merbananand there are replacements for everything but the mdct
21:03:44linuxstbIs that all in SVN?
21:04:03merbananof coz not :)
21:04:33linuxstb;) So where could MT find it (when the time comes) ?
21:06:19merbananhttp://wiki.multimedia.cx/index.php?title=Interesting_Patches#Fixed_point_cook_decoder
21:06:59linuxstbmerbanan: Ah, so on the mailing list?
21:07:23merbananyeah, but much of the work is in svn
21:08:00merbananjust not any fixedpoint replacement code
21:09:04linuxstbI'm not sure if google would like it, but maybe it would make sense for MT to finish that first, before porting it to Rockbox...
21:09:47LloreanSince it's kinda "necessary" in porting it to Rockbox that it gets done at some point, I don't see why it couldn't be first.
21:10:51linuxstbmerbanan: How much work do you think it would be for a student to finish that fixed-point work for ffmpeg?
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21:20:28merbananwell for ffmpeg, alot
21:20:42merbananhe would need to implement a fixed point fft
21:20:53merbananthat is accepted into svn
21:21:19merbananafter that it is around 1 month to glue the decoder together
21:21:51 Quit jaykay (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:22:53linuxstbSounds like almost an SoC project by itself then...
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22:04:34IuDeXHey - what about other devices on rockbox?
22:04:45IuDeXI see only Apple...
22:05:01gevaertsTry leaving the fruit store :)
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22:05:53IuDeX1 April... ahah I have forgotten ;D
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22:08:42BdN3504can anyone commit this http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/10074?
22:09:20GodEaterno, not anyone, only certain people
22:09:49BdN3504who then? how can i become one of these people?
22:10:13Horschtanyone left 4 hours ago. he'll be back tomorrow
22:11:19GodEaterBdN3504, I've been associated with this project for more than three years, and *I* still don't have commit rights
22:11:23GodEaterit takes a looooooong time
22:11:25 Quit SirFunk (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:11:38BigBambiBdN3504: Firt problem I see is the lack of real name
22:12:13BigBambi*First
22:12:15archivatorWhy is FS #9890 (the BCM LCD shutdown entry) still open? Is any more work expected to be done with it?
22:12:37 Quit midgey ()
22:13:35BdN3504it's david kauffmann
22:13:41kugelarchivator: ask dreamlayers, he's able to commit patches (and should be able to close tasks as well) now
22:13:50BdN3504can i change it on flyspray?
22:13:55 Join PaulJam [0] (i=Paule@vpn-3012.gwdg.de)
22:14:26BigBambiBdN3504: I don't know, for now just add it as a comment
22:14:49GodEaterarchivator, you'd be best off asking dreamlayers surely ?
22:15:00BdN3504where shall i add comment?
22:15:11BigBambito the task
22:15:18archivatorGodEater, kugel: right. I was just wondering, seemed like the person who committed it forgot to close the entry.
22:15:36kugelthere's some work to do I think
22:17:25BigBambiBdN3504: Also, what have you actually changed? There appear to be a huge number of lines in that patch that haven't actually changed (line endings maybe)
22:17:38*gevaerts points BigBambi to later comments :)
22:17:46bluebrotherBdN3504: it would be nice if the real name was set properly in the FS profile ...
22:17:50BigBambiaha
22:18:03BigBambier, ah yes
22:18:15BigBambiBdN3504: OK, I'll stick it in in a mo when I've read it
22:18:26BdN3504thank you.
22:18:45BigBambiBdN3504: mpeg works too doesn't it?
22:18:47bluebrotherBdN3504: also, path delimiter is /, not \. A \ is an escape character
22:18:47 Quit IuDeX ("CGI:IRC")
22:19:03bluebrother\ is _never_ a path delimiter except for windows
22:19:03BdN3504k
22:19:23bluebrother(well, DOS and OS2 use it also, but those don't count anymore ;-)
22:19:28BigBambiBdN3504: And shouldn't this be \opt{} ed?
22:19:36BigBambiBdN3504: mpegplayer isn't for all platforms
22:20:04BdN3504ok, then i'll have to learn coding a bit more and add another diff
22:20:14kugelBigBambi: for all except player, IIRC
22:20:28bluebrotherall except archos
22:20:38BigBambikugel: it exists on archos?
22:20:44rasherIt does not.
22:20:49bluebrotheri.e. it's swcodec.
22:20:49BigBambiI thought they used rvf
22:20:59bluebrotherthey do, but that's not mpeg ;-)
22:21:00kugelso, not on hwcodec?
22:21:07BigBambibluebrother: yay, I was right :)
22:21:09 Join thunder_drop [0] (n=007quick@69-11-40-224.regn.hsdb.sasknet.sk.ca)
22:21:18BigBambiindeed
22:21:25bluebrotherno. hwcodec isn't powerful enough for mpeg decoding (hey, those are 11MHz ...)
22:21:41thunder_dropIs this an april fools joke?
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22:21:46thunder_dropwith Apple?
22:21:50bluebrotherthunder_drop: what? We talking?
22:21:59gevaertswhat's april?
22:22:12bluebrotherthunder_drop: no, that's serious. They paid quite an amount of money
22:22:21GodEaterwe all have ferraris now
22:22:22BigBambithunder_drop: ...
22:22:25thunder_dropso rockbox sold out?
22:22:27bluebrotherthough it was really hard to get them accept our conditions :P
22:22:37GodEateryeah, they didn't want to give me a blue one
22:22:52BigBambithunder_drop: I demanded an iCar
22:23:00gevaertsyeah. GodEater will have to get used to this pink ferrari
22:23:08robin0800_Please get the apple/rockbox developers to send me an iphone
22:23:11***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:23:17BigBambiIt is like a normal car, except all controlled from one wheel and more expensive
22:23:18bluebrotherrobin0800_: why?
22:23:33bluebrotherBigBambi: and it's a clickwheel :)
22:23:41kugelBigBambi: and if you shake it, you lose control of it and it drives in random directions
22:23:51kugelthough, that may not a apple feature if I think about it
22:23:52thunder_dropYou know... You did a joke last year too... we all know you're joking
22:23:59BigBambiAlso, Rockbox is to be renamed to fit the Apple line up. We are now iRockbox
22:24:02*bluebrother wonders if thunder_drop expects a honest answer looking at the date
22:24:26bluebrothernot iBox? Seems I missed that part :o
22:24:33BdN3504sorry to bother you about this but what do CRLF and LF mean?
22:24:33GodEaterwho'd have thought
22:24:37 Join Martin_Mueller [0] (n=57a95c55@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-b8bf446121cf9e85)
22:24:40thunder_dropWell... I got scared... since the forums are changed too
22:24:44bluebrotherthought they didn't like iRockbox because of the length of the name
22:24:45Martin_Muellerhi @ all :)
22:24:46GodEaterCarriage Return Line Feed and then just Line Feed
22:24:50bluebrotherBdN3504: google is your friend ...
22:25:10bluebrotherline ending. Unix uses LF, DOS (and windows) CR+LF
22:25:20 Join Venomspitter [0] (i=KoRn@64-136-194-200.dyn.everestkc.net)
22:25:24BigBambibluebrother: Last minute concession by Apple
22:25:24BigBambibluebrother: It was the last major sticking point
22:25:28Martin_Muellerjust so that I know... is that a fake message? >>2009-04-01After months of negotiations, Apple has finally agreed to our terms and Rockbox is now an enthusiasic part of Apple's development team!<<
22:25:43GodEaterBigBambi, so when are we having the Rockbox Ferrari owners trackday ?
22:25:52GodEaterMartin_Mueller, nope - not fake
22:25:54BdN3504http://lmgtfy.com/?q=lf+crlf
22:25:54bluebrotherBigBambi: ah, great :)
22:25:59 Quit thunder_drop (Client Quit)
22:26:07gevaertsMartin_Mueller: the *message* is real
22:26:16Venomspitterlol
22:26:22Martin_Muellerlol
22:26:28Martin_Muellerbut the contents is fake
22:26:29Martin_Mueller:D
22:26:30Martin_Muellerok
22:27:00Martin_Muellerso its fake
22:27:02Martin_Mueller^^
22:27:32GodEaterit's fake ?
22:27:39GodEaterso I have to give the ferrari back ?
22:27:41bluebrothernot that I know of.
22:28:01bluebrotherthey gave quite an amount of money ...
22:28:02*GodEater is not giving his ferrari back
22:28:26GodEaterthat's alright then
22:28:56BigBambiBdN3504: Also, why not follow the example of the archos video format immediately below where you inserted your lines?
22:28:57*domonoky throws a iRock on GodEaters ferrari :-)
22:29:33BigBambiiFerrari surely?
22:29:49*bluebrother gets confused. What was the concession in the end? iRock? iBox? iRockbox?
22:29:53BdN3504thanks for the hint
22:30:30GodEateri!Pod
22:30:32bluebrotherIce cream, ice cream, we only want ice cream!
22:30:32domonokyiRock, because the will put it on bricked ipods :-)
22:31:00gevaertswasn't it iBrick?
22:31:01bluebrotherdomonoky: you're starting to spoil the agreement :o
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22:31:11BigBambiBdN3504: Perhaps also MPEG 1 & 2 ? To make sure it is not 4 also?
22:31:26 Quit tvelocity (Remote closed the connection)
22:32:05*bluebrother wants his ipod to support USB audio to have something better than this crappy AC97
22:32:11*domonoky wants iBeer :-)
22:32:16*Venomspitter prefers iVodka
22:32:17Venomspitter>_>
22:32:42bluebrotherwe need iBeer on the next devcon
22:32:48gevaertsbluebrother: http://www.usb.org/developers/devclass_docs/Audio2.0_final.zip
22:33:04BigBambibluebrother: get stuffed, real beer!
22:33:25pixelmaso that's what the RSB been doing in their meetings...
22:33:29bluebrothergevaerts: implement it! :P
22:33:37BdN3504you mean in the description?
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22:34:41*bluebrother really would like to see a real name policy on FS
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22:35:47BigBambiBdN3504: I mean maybe instead of MPEG Video MPEG1&2 Video (although that might look crap, I'd need to try it)
22:36:16GodEateror "MPEG1 and MPEG2" ?
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22:39:11BigBambiBdN3504: But it should be fairly straightforward - correct the file path, add a \opt{swcodec}{ ..... } around it, and alter the wording slightly
22:39:20BdN3504so that should be the files? so the list is set up like this : "MPEG1 and MPEG2 video |.mpg|Play the movie with the MPEG Player plugin "
22:39:41BigBambiwhy two spaces before MPEG?
22:40:06BigBambiAlso, why use movie not video, as is already there for archos?
22:40:07BdN3504\opt{swcodec}{ ..... } isn't that windows again?
22:40:22BigBambiAlso, why not just "Play the video"
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22:40:38BigBambiBdN3504: No, it is a latex instruction and not a file path
22:40:54BdN3504ah ok sorry. it's easy to mix these up sorry<
22:41:04BigBambiBdN3504: That is how you include items based on various options - see the rest of that file for examples
22:43:21*bluebrother doesn't think it's easy to mix up LaTeX commands with file paths
22:43:35BdN3504for a noob it is
22:45:23bluebrotherBdN3504: http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/info/lshort/german/l2kurz.pdf
22:45:26BdN3504so the opt{swcodec} will only include devices that have a swcodec and that leaves out the devices which have no video support?
22:45:26 Join LambdaCalculus37 [0] (n=rmenes@rockbox/staff/LambdaCalculus37)
22:46:04bluebrotherit will include all devices that have swcodec defined. Which is everything except archos
22:46:04 Quit Venomspitter ("I love the smell of napalm in the morning...")
22:46:09BdN3504ty @ bluebrother
22:46:29pixelmait will leave out devices with hwcodec - they have video though but an own format
22:46:51pixelmaexcept teh Player ;)
22:47:31pixelma(which has no video support, I mean)
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22:51:39BdN3504is swcodec right?is it all lower case?
22:52:43BigBambiaye
22:53:00bluebrotherBdN3504: check the files in platform/
22:53:08bluebrotherthose define that keywords
22:53:24BdN3504thanks
22:53:45bluebrotherhmm, actually only partly (since features.txt is used these days)
22:53:48 Quit jaykay (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:55:03pixelmaswcodec comes from features.txt (the same which is used for the lang files)
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23:21:08BdN3504ok, can someone with commit permission now have a look at the diff? http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/10074?getfile=19097
23:22:34BigBambiBdN3504: Will do
23:23:58BigBambiwe really ought to replace those icons with the default ones
23:24:14BigBambiBdN3504: Have you checked it builds?
23:24:19pixelmathose are default ;)
23:24:55BdN3504no i haven't checked if it builds. i still don't know how to build the manual, sorry
23:24:59rasherBut the ones used in the default theme that people actually see
23:25:15pixelmayes, on some targets
23:25:34BigBambiBdN3504: I'm going to change movie to video, and you haven't included .mpeg
23:25:39rasherpixelma: on most targets!
23:27:33pixelmahmm... sorry, my first statement was unclear. I meant the ones shown in the manual currently are still default on some targets
23:28:06BdN3504ok sorry, i misunderstood whyt you actually cleary stated... wait, it doesn't matter if the file name is mpg or mpeg?
23:32:13 Quit evilnick_230 ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
23:32:24bluebrotherBdN3504: check apps/plugins/viewers.config for supported file extensions
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23:34:01 Quit kugel (Remote closed the connection)
23:34:38BigBambiBdN3504: I'm also going to change it round slightly to be more in keeping with other entries - i.e. to say Video for the first bit then MPEG1/2 in the second as for e.g. Image and jpg
23:35:05STUCan anyone point me to a place where I can find out why my FM radio sometimes detected and other times not?
23:36:11sir_lewkthe filesystem on my rockbox'd ipod (5th gen, 30 GB) got messed up (/dev/sdb2), can I safely zero it out and create a new FAT filesystem on it, or do I have to use Apple's restore thingy again?
23:36:26 Quit bmbl (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:36:37 Quit dfkt ("-= SysReset 2.53=- Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.")
23:36:43sir_lewkwhen I try to read certain directories on it I get: "FAT: Filesystem panic (dev sdb2)" in my dmesg
23:38:11BdN3504that's why i actually asked beforehand but go ahead. so the viewers file says that m2v is also opened by mpeg player?
23:39:41BigBambiBdN3504: I wasn't aware of that, but could be :)
23:41:00BigBambiand indeed mpv
23:42:27BdN3504i got many errors trying to compile the manual.... is that normal? in the end i get a pdf i can open, but the list seems too long. can i post a link?
23:43:16BigBambito pastebin, sure
23:43:58BdN3504but i thought i'd post the actual pdf, so you see exactly what i see. can i do that on pastebin`?
23:45:01bluebrothersir_lewk: you could do that, but have you tried fsck'ing the filesystem first? Also, if you have access to a windows machine running chkdsk /f might help. From my experience that is a bit better in fixing issues with the filesystem −− linux is more forgiving
23:45:09BigBambiI don't know - if it is a pdf, just post a link to it
23:45:14BdN3504http://download156.mediafire.com/tegtt04yic1g/nmh0imggt3y/rockbox-build.pdf
23:45:31BdN3504it's page 144
23:46:23BigBambiBdN3504: Contents are also cocked up for instance
23:46:38BigBambiBdN3504: But it is hard to say why
23:46:42BigBambiwithout seeing the errors
23:47:01BigBambiUnfortunately the latex output gives so much pointless stuff it is hard to find real errors in there
23:47:04bluebrotherwell, the table simply got too long for that page. Someone(tm) needs to convert it using ltxtable
23:47:15bluebrotheror longtable.
23:48:04BdN3504if you compare this to the manual that's online right now, the same page is 151. this is weird
23:48:20bluebrotherBdN3504: that's not weird at all.
23:48:32BigBambiBdN3504: I'll commit what is there for now
23:49:19sir_lewkah, that did it
23:49:26sir_lewkthanks, I totally forgot about fsck ;)
23:49:41BigBambi(with my little changes)
23:49:53BdN3504can i somehow copypasta the errors off the vm (i use the old image with eterm)?
23:50:02bluebrotherBdN3504: the references haven't been regenerated properly, thus also the TOC is completely missing. Which obviously (and unsurprisingly) results in different page numbers
23:50:12BdN3504ah ok
23:50:39bluebrothermark with the left mouse button, paste with middle (into pastebin ;-)
23:51:43BdN3504i acn't scroll to the top of the errors, that's why i am asking. is there a way to export everything i done in this current session or from a specific time window?
23:52:36domonokyBdN3504: you could redirect the output to a file, and read it afterwards :-)
23:52:57bluebrotherBdN3504: Shift-PgUp
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23:55:27BdN3504shft pgup doesn't do it... i can only get to a certain point. how do i do file output?
23:55:54fmllinuxstb: could you please review the FS #10087 (improvements to rocklife)? In particular the file loading.
23:57:34linuxstbfml: I don't have time to look in detail now, but I have one question - did you try the old version and compare the speed with reading char by char? I'm guessing it's not a noticable difference?
23:57:48BdN3504the first error i get is file utf8.def not found which i think is the error resulting in most other errors...

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