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#rockbox log for 2009-05-02

00:00:26bubsyhmm any documents on how to compile (if necessary) and transfer Rockbox to the Creative Zen Vision:M?
00:00:37bubsyI know some things aren't ported yet, but I'd love to try! :)
00:01:01motionman95There's a guide in the wiki...
00:01:13*motionman95 goes to get the link
00:01:53motionman95This: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/NewPort and this: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PortingHowTo
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00:39:03***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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00:57:01mib_5ajozoniHello
00:58:15mib_5ajozoniWhen I install rockbox on my iPod, am I infringing the EULA or other legal crap?
00:59:10 Quit tvelocity (Remote closed the connection)
00:59:34mib_5ajozonisorry for "crap" I mean laws etc.
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01:00
01:00:39mib_5ajozonino one?
01:00:57kkurbjunmib_5ajozoni: I havn't read the EULA, but I would say it's likely
01:01:04mib_5ajozonioh
01:01:17kkurbjunit's pretty easy to remove too though
01:01:24mib_5ajozoniwell then I guess no rockbox
01:01:31mib_5ajozonifor me
01:01:33kkurbjunand if it's out of warantee then it's not really an issue
01:01:40 Join martian67 [0] (n=martian6@about/linux/regular/martian67)
01:01:53mib_5ajozoniIt's still illegal
01:01:57mib_5ajozonikinda lame
01:02:06kkurbjunwell. not really
01:02:28mib_5ajozoninot really?
01:02:30krazykitit's your device, you can do as you like with it. it's not like anyone will ever sue you for doing so.
01:03:00mib_5ajozoniIt's only illegal if a judge says so
01:03:07mib_5ajozoniyeah you're right
01:03:14mib_5ajozoniok
01:03:35kkurbjunthe eula is just an agreement as I understand it if you violate it, then you are just saying that you don't get agreed upon service with the device, like a warantee
01:03:59kkurbjunI don't think that they could sue you unless you committed fraud or something like htat
01:04:20 Join JdGordon [0] (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
01:04:50kkurbjuni.e. say that you never installed 3rd party software to get free service in the agreement
01:05:04Unhelpfulhrm... bufopen already takes a file offset argument. it looks like all we really need is for the metadata readers to store an offset to the image data when it finds an embedded tag, and then pass that offset to bufopen, pass the filename of the audio file instead of searching for an image file
01:06:44 Quit ender` (" Our chances of being caught by the RIAA or IFPI are somewhat less than being hit by lightning - or choking on a wasabi-flav")
01:07:55mib_5ajozoniok this is kind of funny I just read that if you are only able to read the EULA AFTER the purchase (as in when you first use the software) it's not legally valid ( In the Netherlands anyway) this reduces the EULA to a joke
01:09:52 Quit kugel (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:12:02zemost legal assesments of EULA's i've ever heard basically came to similar conclusions
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01:16:44 Part fatahab
01:18:20mib_5ajozoniI still agreed though
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01:24:01bubsy.. I have transfered the rockbox.zvm (injected with nk.bin and sent with sendfirm), and I placed .rockbox in my Zen Vision:M root and rebooted
01:24:13bubsyI got some text in a console, then the normal Zen Vision:M firmware booted
01:24:20bubsyso... NOT possible to get rockbox on it at all?
01:24:34CIA-63New commit by 03unhelpful (r20836): Add core JPEG reader, adapted from the JPEG plugin's decoder, with some changes to prevent include conflicts between the two decoders.
01:24:37bubsy(and yes, I compiled rockbox for the Zen Vision:M)
01:25:20bubsy"Currently, all the bootloader does is load the original firmware." <−− ..............
01:25:27bubsythen what's the point?
01:25:28Unhelpfulbubsy: what was the text? the bootloader supports dual-boot, and there are some oddities about getting it to find rockbox on the gigabeat S, which also uses nk.bin
01:25:48bubsyit didn't last long, and I have to reset the player again to see it
01:25:53bubsyI need a cold boot again, grr
01:26:01toffe829*2.2
01:26:06toffe82:)
01:26:15bubsy?
01:26:41Lloreanbubsy: The "point" is that it's in development. One thing it has to do for dual boot is load the original firmware, and you want to get that working *first* since Rockbox sure isn't going to be working soon and you need the OF for many things usually
01:26:42bubsywait, I'll use the reset button
01:26:55Unhelpfulbubsy: oh! well, if that's as far as the bootloader has gotten on that target, you'll need to wait.
01:28:17bubsy:(
01:28:24bubsyit've been like that for many months
01:28:30bubsyATTENTION ZVM DEVELOPERS: DO SOMETHING
01:28:36bubsyit's*
01:28:48Lloreanbubsy: It's volunteer effort
01:28:55 Quit toffe82 ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.10/2009042316]")
01:28:58kugelkkurbjun: noticied my lcd sleep fix?
01:28:59LloreanI don't see you saying "i want it badly enough, I'm going to learn what it takes to do the job."
01:29:50kkurbjunkugel, I did, thanks for looking at that, I tried it and it seems to be working right now
01:30:03bubsyUnhelpful: the bootloader says "Rockbox bootloader version blah" "rev blah" "Loading Creative Firmware"
01:30:15kkurbjunbubsy: it's very likely that the zvm port is just broken right now, it's not a released target
01:30:18kugelcool. well, the mr500 wasn't the only broken target :)
01:30:31kkurbjun:)
01:30:50kugeland thanks for your HAVE_LCD_ENABLE clean up
01:31:45kkurbjunbubsy, the zvm shares alot in common with the m:robe and the linker scripts have been mucked around with so I'm not sure that scrambling is working properly right now.
01:31:55CIA-63New commit by 03unhelpful (r20837): Search for, and load, JPEG album art files.
01:31:56kkurbjunyeah, no problem
01:34:36kugelkkurbjun: the gigabeats are still "wrong"?
01:34:50kkurbjununhelpful, nice, I'm looking forward to trying out jpg album art.. are you planing on integrating the core jpeg decoder into the plugin?
01:35:03kugelUnhelpful: heh, I thought you'd wait a bit longer, but hooray for jpeg in core :)
01:35:41kugelis folder.jpg supported too?
01:36:26kkurbjunkugel, the gigabeat still mixes enable and sleep, I don't know if it works or not, it doesn't do backlight fading in backlight.c, I would imagine that your fix would would have corrected the gigabeat too if it wasn't working
01:37:20kkurbjunIt's more difficult to test the gigabeat for lcd sleep because I can't see the screen as easily, and I don't have my current measurement setup for the gigabeat right now
01:37:40kugelkkurbjun: there's no fading at all, right? I'm probably able to do it in the sim then
01:37:58kugelwhy does it have sleep then anyway?
01:38:04kkurbjunthe gigabeat has fading, but it does it in a different place
01:39:06Unhelpfulkkurbjun: i've talked a bit with amiconn about the proper way to do that - this loader does not support reading from memory, but it's implemented on top of getc/putc functions, which could be swapped for in
01:39:10kkurbjunit saves quite a bit of current and the lcd is slow to turn on so there is a delay in it turning off so that users can touch it again quickly and not have to wait for the lcd startup if it /just/ turned off
01:39:18Unhelpfulgrr, enter-next-to-'-'
01:39:27Unhelpfulwhich could be swapped for in-memory versions.
01:39:44kugelkkurbjun: ah, that makes sense then
01:46:54CIA-63New commit by 03unhelpful (r20838): Fix AA search for file with same basename to test all extensions.
01:52:18 Quit jmillikin ("Leaving")
01:54:00kugelUnhelpful: what happened about the 19k?
01:54:28Unhelpfulkugel: those were the object file sizes. linked, they seem to have lost some weight.
01:57:50kugelUnhelpful: So, cover.jpg is supported, but folder.bmp not?
01:58:15Lloreanfolder.jpg is supported because it's a de facto standard.
01:58:19Unhelpfulkugel: right. folder.jpg is a WMP convention, i didn't expect anybody would be creating folder.bmp files.
01:58:20Lloreanfolder.bmp, on the other hand, isn't.
01:58:58kugelUnhelpful: yea, but it doesn't make sense to restrict that, isn't it just a matter of calling try_exts?
01:59:24kugelalso, I thought "Album Art.jpg" was wmp style, not folder.jpg
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02:00
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02:00:15Unhelpfulkugel: but why add the function call for something that we *don't* expect anybody to use?
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02:00:59kugelI think we're not good at expecting what users do
02:01:16kugeland going by that arguing, we can drop .bmp album art altogether
02:01:26Unhelpfuli think only users who use windows folder icons are going to have folder.anything files, though.
02:01:58Unhelpfulthat was already suggested, but i think it should not happen right away :)
02:02:09LloreanI don't think we should drop bmp album art.
02:02:31LloreanWe already have plenty of users who've converted their files once, we shouldn't take away a feature they're now using.
02:02:52kugelI think restricting folder to .jpg, but not the other supported filenames looks like unecessary hardcoding
02:02:57LloreanNot to mention, some of us like not having jpeg compression artifacts in our album art, and now we can use reasonably sized AA for both Rockbox and the PC thanks to scaling.
02:03:12Lloreankugel: You'd have to hardcode support to *add* new things, right?
02:03:33kugel:?
02:03:49LloreanWe added folder.jpg because it's commonly used.
02:03:58LloreanFolder.bmp is not commonly used, there's really not a reason to add it.
02:04:13LloreanWe're not trying to add every possible name someone might use. We're adding "our name, and a common name that PC applications use"
02:04:30UnhelpfulLlorean: scaling oversized JPEG is *much* faster than scaling down oversized BMP, because the JPEG decoder can downscale up to 8x, and actually does *less* work doing so than decoding at native size.
02:04:32LloreanIf there's a few more common filenames, we should add those, but there's no reason to have .bmp and .jpg versions of everything *except* our own folder structure
02:04:33kugelwhat's cover.jpg for then?
02:04:46Lloreancover.jpg is for our structure.
02:05:09kugelare we expecting users to use cover.jpg if they can use the defacto standard?
02:05:20kugelit seems we could save another function call there
02:05:24LloreanIt's only a de facto standard for windows users.
02:05:26gevaertsit *is* the defacto standard!
02:06:16LloreanWe certainly could drop cover.jpg, but then we should drop cover.bmp and rename it to folder.bmp so that people don't have to remember that different extensions require different file names too
02:06:29LloreanWhich again takes us back to taking away the possibility to use it as users currently do.
02:06:44gevaertsLlorean: that is basically what kugel is saying though
02:06:49Lloreangevaerts: Which part?
02:06:59gevaerts"people don't have to remember that different extensions require different file names"
02:07:00LloreanThe part where we could, or the part where it's a bad idea despite being able to?
02:07:09Lloreangevaerts: People shouldn't be making folder.jpg
02:07:20LloreanWe support it because some tools create it *for* them without them knowing.
02:07:45LloreanIf we find other tools making folder.bmp as a standard album art method, then it's worth considering adding it into the list.
02:08:03gevaertsI agree that we shouldn't scan for unlikely files, but you have to be careful when arguing :)
02:08:12LloreanWell, I've now clarified.
02:08:25LloreanI do try to be careful, but questions help. :)
02:08:30Unhelpfulhrm, the hard-coded version won't support folder.jpeg either - but then windows isn't creating those, so i'd say the same argument applies.
02:08:58LloreanIn my opinion, with "automatically" generated files, we just need the specific filename (no variants
02:09:18LloreanThen we have "our" AA structure which has all the options since the files are more likely to be manually created
02:09:27kugelUnhelpful: windows doesn't create anything
02:10:01Lloreankugel: WMP11 will automatically download/create them *supposedly*
02:10:06gevaertsI fully agree. We do our own convention, and where possible we support other common conventions
02:10:22Lloreangevaerts: Exactly
02:10:29kugelwmp != windows
02:10:34*gevaerts wants .tga AA
02:11:18*kugel wants different basenames for each supported extension
02:11:51*Llorean thinks that's the most user-unfriendly way to do it.
02:12:26LloreanUsers should only need to know "this is how you do it if you're doing it yourself. If you're using WMP11, your album art will show up automatically." With WMP11 being replaced by an increasing list of programs as we find out more common structures.
02:12:44LloreanThe "this is" being cover.bmp / cover.jpg / cover.jpeg
02:13:34 Quit JdGordon (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:14:47kugelUnhelpful: What about people that renamed a picture found in google to folder.jpg? They didn't pay attention to the exact extensions (they just know jpeg, that's the format). And it will work in windows, but rockbox will fail, even though jpg and jpeg is supposedly the same
02:14:55kugelto folder.jpeg+
02:15:35kugelthe defacto is more about the folder than the jpg I think
02:15:53LloreanThat's still not an argument for folder.bmp.
02:15:58kugeland if jpeg and jpg are valid extensions, both should work equally
02:16:16LloreanDoes folder.jpeg work in Windows?
02:16:38kugelLlorean: I'm replying to Unhelpful, who said folder.jpeg doesn't work either
02:17:15UnhelpfulLlorean: it's not an argument for folder.bmp, but the shortest path to supporting .jpg+.jpeg is calling the same try_exts function and getting .bmp as well.
02:18:31LloreanBut does folder.jpeg work in windows?
02:18:38kugelhah, no it actually doesn't
02:18:41kugelI guess we're fine then
02:18:52LloreanSo we do support the de facto standard.
02:18:59LloreanNow, iTunes just uses embedded album art.
02:19:11LloreanWhat do songbird, amarok, etc use? Any other common ones than embedded album art?
02:19:18LloreanAlso, didn't the e200 OF use something specific?
02:20:23kugelI still think we should call try_exts for folder.* too. Windows' restriction isn't an excuse for me
02:20:45UnhelpfulLlorean: i've *never* figured out where exactly amarok stores AA that it downloads, but it will display ./cover.jpg if it finds one.
02:21:05gevaertskugel: then what about names like directory.*, ...?
02:21:20kugelor *.*?
02:21:27gevaertsexactly
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02:21:47kugelI'm not disagreeing that folder.jpg is defacto
02:22:10gevaertsAnyway checking for a file is not necessarily free
02:22:21Lloreankugel: If our goal is "support our way, and various standards" why does folder.bmp and folder.jpeg need to be involved?
02:22:35LloreanIf a program names it F000.jpg, should we then add F000.jpeg and F000.bmp too?
02:23:17kugelLlorean: because it's trivial to implement (it is already implemented for cover)
02:23:31LloreanThat's not a reason to do it.
02:23:36kugelI see no real harm in doing the same for folder too
02:23:47Llorean(7:22:06 PM) gevaerts: Anyway checking for a file is not necessarily free
02:24:08 Join lymeca [0] (n=lymeca@student166-152.hampshire.edu)
02:24:17LloreanThe more filenames we support, the larger the extra time spent checking for files. It's small, but there's no reason to do it if there's not a decent likelihood the file will be there in the first place.
02:24:25kugelhaving album art at all isn't free. That's not a reason against imo
02:24:49gevaertsso what is the reasin in favour?
02:24:56kugelI'm not saying to support more filenames, just check the extensions for folder (the defacto) too
02:24:58Lloreangevaerts: "trivial to implement"
02:25:26*gevaerts can probably think of lots of things that are trivial to implement
02:25:31Lloreankugel: Just because AA isn't free doesn't mean we should waste time checking for files that are unlikely to be there.
02:25:32Unhelpfulkugel: each extension checked is a filename passed to file_exists.
02:25:53Unhelpfulin effect this patch already tripled the filesystem load of the AA search.
02:26:13 Quit lymeca (Client Quit)
02:26:44kugelwell, whatever. I don't like this restriction, but can't win against 3, so I'm quite for now :)
02:27:00*Llorean doesn't think it's a restriction at all.
02:27:17LloreanAt least, no more so than not allowing people to name their art whatever filename they want.
02:27:54UnhelpfulLlorean: that *was* suggested this morning. ;)
02:28:12gevaertsthey can. Just use the tag based naming system
02:28:33Lloreangevaerts: Hah. Name your album whatever you want the filename to be? :-P
02:28:50gevaertsLlorean: isn't albumartist sufficient?
02:29:00LloreanEither way, that means folder.bmp *is* supported.
02:29:02LloreanArgument over. :0
02:29:04Llorean:)
02:29:18gevaertsCombined with a wps that ignores albumartist, it makes basically no other difference
02:39:04***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:39:33kugelUnhelpful: how's the jpeg loading working? load any sized jpeg, then scale upto 8x using this, then decode to bmp, then scale it exactly using the bmp scaler?
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02:39:55kugels/this/magic jpg scaling/
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02:41:36gartralRbUtil failed to extract rockbox.zip on installation "Extracting failed: Invalid or Incomplete zip archive..."
02:42:31Unhelpfulkugel: the JPEG loader can scale to 1/8, 1/4, 1/2, 1/1, or 2/1, with the latter unavailable if there is subsampling. it scales to the smallest size that is larger than or equal to the desired output size, then passes the output to the scaler.
02:43:01Unhelpfulone "row" of MCUs is buffered at a time, and then individual pixel rows from that are processed in the scaler
02:43:06gartralhmm, i see the site has "broken?" for e200s...
02:43:54Unhelpfulthe one-row-of-MCUs thing is part of why progressive and multi-scan are unsupported - the decoder needs all of the data for the current MCU row so that it can be completely decoded, and scaled, before it starts decoding the next MCU row.
02:44:04kugelUnhelpful: and this 1/8... scaling is done before or after decoding?
02:45:10kugelnice that the jpeg loader can scale 1/1 ;)=
02:45:12kugel;)
02:45:12Unhelpfulkugel: during, by doing partial decoding of the DCT-transformed image data.
02:45:57kugelI see. thanks for explaination
02:46:33gartralso what caused the e200 build to fail?
02:47:13kugelnothing. it's fine
02:47:59gartralsays broken on my screen., and Rbutil wont extract the official
02:48:09gartralbuild*
02:48:44gevaertsmy unzip also doesn't like that one
02:49:03gartralmeh, simple fix: build my own
02:51:10kugelthe e200 build isn't broken, but the upload to the download server apparently failed
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02:51:42gevaertsI guess it's this zip 3.0 thing
02:51:56kugelmight be yes
02:53:17gartraljust strange the only the e200 build seems to be affected
02:55:27kugelnot exactly
02:55:52kugeljust the only rockbox.zip built by amiconn's server
02:58:07gartralwell, my archive manager seemed to extract it ok, but im not sure it will work..
03:00
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03:01:50gartralwell.. see ya
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03:11:08SharnI was wondering if I could set a default theme in the config.cfg, without dropping everything form the theme file in there?
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03:30:06SharnAnyone?
03:31:23UnhelpfulSharn: a "theme" is just a set of config options. if you don't want to use all of them, you can edit the theme file, or manually set some of the options from it.
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03:55:05*Strife89 spies a JPEG commit.
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04:13:58SharnUnhelpful: so it's built to just be pasted into the config? Rockbox is on a cowon d2, so it can't save the default theme if it's upposed to
04:15:06UnhelpfulSharn: pasting it into the config is not the *intended* way to apply a theme. surely there are worse problems on D2 than not remembering themes/settings?
04:16:06LloreanSharn: The D2 isn't supported in part *because* the filesystem is read-only
04:16:19LloreanOn working targets, Rockbox writes config.cfg for you including the theme settings from the in-use theme
04:17:49bubsyhey Llorean and Unhelpful,
04:17:49bubsy/* If no button is held, start the OF */
04:17:49bubsy if(button_read_device() == 0)
04:17:49DBUGEnqueued KICK bubsy
04:17:49bubsy {
04:17:49bubsy printf("Loading Creative firmware...");
04:18:13bubsyI tried to press a button, it just freeze right before it's supposed to say printf("Loading Rockbox firmware...");
04:18:23LloreanPlease don't paste multiple lines of code into the channel
04:18:28bubsyso the error is either here: disk_init(); or here: ret = disk_mount_all();
04:18:31bubsyokay, sorry =/
04:19:17bubsyI guess it can't reach the firmware file, or that the filesystem on the disk is unreadable
04:21:14bubsyI'll manipulate the bootloader and add more debugging messages
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04:27:24SharnLlorean: I figured it did. I'm fully aware it is not a supported target, and the filesystem is read-only. That's why I'm asking if there's like a "source" line for the config file to just open the theme file and import it
04:28:58Unhelpfulno, but you can replace the settings in the config file with the ones from the theme file.
04:33:14bubsyret = disk_init(); <−− yup, it crashes here on the Zen Vision:M port
04:33:28bubsyit's going to init the disk to init the fs, so it can boot from the .rockbox dir
04:35:00SharnOk, I will. Thanks
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04:39:15CIA-63New commit by 03unhelpful (r20839): Add read_jpeg_* to feature_wrappers.h, add import-from-core for jpeg_load.c on mono targets.
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05:09:26Unhelpfuldoes our lseek follow the same return-value convention as the POSIX one? in other works, can i use lseek(fd, 0 , SEEK_CUR) to get the current position in the file?
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05:15:01linuxstbUnhelpful: "grep" tells me yes - e.g. video.c uses it.
05:15:20Unhelpfulgood deal... might come in handy if i ever want to tackle embedded AA
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05:33:46motionman95I can't get rb->rmdir to work! I tried rb->rmdir(wpsDir); (wpsDir equals "/.rockbox/wps/cabbiev2/") but I won't work. Please help!
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05:43:35Unhelpfulmotionman95: see if rmdir is picky about the trailing slash, perhaps... only thing i can think of.
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05:47:47motionman95thanks unhelpful...I'll play with it...
05:47:49CIA-63New commit by 03unhelpful (r20840): Add read_<image>_fd functions to plugin API, add feature_wrappers.h handling for them, and add read_image.[ch] wrapper for reading image files with ...
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05:56:57motionman95With or without the trailing slash, it doesn't work =(
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06:06:53CIA-63New commit by 03unhelpful (r20841): PictureFlow JPEG AA support for all non-mono targets (mono targets will need overlay for this).
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06:36:31CIA-63New commit by 03unhelpful (r20842): Fix red.
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07:24:53Unhelpfuli noticed that the ZVM are color targets but don't define HAVE_ALBUMART. the scaler and the jpeg loader are both built based on LCD_DEPTH > 1, but aren't used in core if HAVE_ALBUMART isn't defined. worth fixing, or don't bother unless it's a supported-target problem?
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07:28:30kkurbjunUnhelpful, the intention is that if someone for whatever reason wants to build their own lean setup they could undefine albumart (or other settings) and it would build fine with the reduced binary size
07:30:01kkurbjunwhen other things start relying on the internal jpeg decoder that could complicate the problem
07:30:19kkurbjunmaybe something like HAVE_JPEG_DECODE or something like that
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07:34:37Unhelpfulkkurbjun: it's unlikely anything else will any time soon. only the buffer really offers enough memory to use the decoder, and the buffering thread is pretty much the only thing that can have a reasonable expectation of getting the space when it needs it :/
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07:38:21kkurbjunI was thinking that plugins could eventually use it which would make the albumart define problematic if that effects functionality that might appear to be unrelated and someone is messing with the defines. It would be pretty clear what is wrong when you start getting compile errors, but I was thinking that if, perhaps someone didn't want to build JPEG support in and instead use the BMP loader (or no album art at all) they could tune it to
07:39:02kkurbjunthat's where a HAVE_JPEG_DECODE might be usefule
07:39:13kkurbjunbut I don't know how useful in the end it would be
07:39:32kkurbjunif it's alot of work or it clutters the code it's probably not worth it
07:39:59kkurbjunI would imagine that you would just substitute the >1 check for that define and you would just set it in the config file for the device though
07:44:14Unhelpfulso, ideally, the scaler should build based on HAVE_JPEG_DECODE || HAVE_ALBUM_ART, the bmp loader should build without scaler support if HAVE_ALBUM_ART is undefined, etc.
07:45:28Unhelpfuli'm not really worried about plugins that want it. apps/plugins/lib/pluginlib_*.c give us a mechanism for using disabled core features in plugins :)
07:46:34kkurbjunthat's how I expect it to work, but others might have alternate impressions - I kind of view the config files like a linux kernel .config where you set the preferences that you want for the target. :), true
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07:50:23Unhelpfuli'd say the core jpeg decoder should perhaps even depend on HAVE_ALBUMART && HAVE_JPEG_DECODE, given how useless it is to anything without a pile of memory to throw around
07:58:00kkurbjunMy ideal for the core jpeg decoder is that it can provide a useful set of standard video functions that can be leveraged so targets that, for example have hardware acceleration for some of those functions will have one central piece of code that they have to touch to take advantage of the HW functionality. I know it's not entirely setup for that right now, but that's why I was interested in having it useful to plugins, I guess maybe the Hu
07:58:28kkurbjunI havn't figured out how to get the dm320 idct running yet so it might not be really useful in the end anyway
07:59:15kkurbjunthe other benefit that you have though is you could do processor optimizations on one piece of code that would have an effect both the jpeg viewer and the mpeg decoder for example
07:59:43kkurbjunbut the overhead of having to call the functions through the plugin interface might diminish those returns too
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08:02:08Unhelpfulcalls via the plugin API are calls via pointers. i believe that costs a few extra cycles on ARM, and probably pretty much everywhere else.
08:06:06kkurbjunyeah, and if you are talking about performance critical routines it might not be such a good idea of having a central location for these routines at least if they are called that way, it could make some redundant code unnecessary though and ease some of the maintenance burden. It might also be possible to make them a library of sorts that plugins or the core could use, but I don't know how exactly that would fit in
08:07:14kkurbjuneither way it was just a thought, I'm not suggesting that it is something that necessarily should be done
08:08:47Unhelpfuli believe that at least on ARM, as we build things, you get a similar penalty for calls to any function defined in another source file, anyway.
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08:11:11Unhelpfulyou can fix that with a function attribute, but it's a bit problematic, as it then becomes important whether the function and its caller are both in, or not in, iram :/
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09:18:13mtlinuxstb : the patch should contain the whole converter program not just the decoder, right ?
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10:25:47Unhelpfulok, i'm starting on adding HAVE_JPEG and HAVE_BMP_SCALING, which will be used to enable/disable building the jpeg loader and scaler (with pluginlib import versions build if they're not provided in core)
10:26:51Unhelpfulif anybody thinks that's crazy/stupid, let me know, otherwise i'll keep on it and commit it when i'm satisfied it doesn't break things
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11:23:36mtlinuxstb : patch −−> FS #10182 . I'll update the wiki later with the ffmpeg file I used so it could be compared to my current modified file.
11:23:50mtsaratoga : ^
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12:32:41lee321987on Cygwin −− what's the fastest way to find out the last SVN update number I downloaded?
12:33:13n1ssvn info
12:33:17lee321987thanks
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13:26:57CIA-63New commit by 03stripwax (r20843): Fix for noise after vorbis skipping introduced in r20783 - thanks to Aoyumi and learman
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15:21:55Blue_DudeI'm trying to write a routine that operates directly on the output buffer. I have some questions on the buffer's structure.
15:27:40funmanFlynDice: ping
15:30:54domonokyBlue_Dude: then just ask, and if somebody knows, he will answer :-)
15:32:01funmanonly models released are listed on http://build.rockbox.org/ ?
15:32:32BigBambiyeah. I think so
15:33:09domonokyjup, we only provide current binarys for released/supported targets..
15:33:39gevaertsunless you can guess the URL :)
15:33:43domonokyor to be exact, only for supported targets, (they dont have to have a corresponding release)
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15:35:52Blue_DudeI've been looking through pcmbuf.c, but I'm not sure it's the best place to meddle. If I'm going to build my own routine, should I just write it in a separate file and call to it from the appropriate place in pcmbuf.c (or wherever) or append it to the pcmbuf.c file?
15:37:42domonokyBlue_Dude: probably depends on what your own routine would do..
15:39:30Blue_DudeIt will modify the buffer to selectively amplify sections of the waveform. It has to do this on the buffer itself vs. the buffer filling routine because it has to look ahead at future samples.
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15:45:18domonokyhm, how big is this look-ahead ? sounds like it could be pretty ugly in pcmbuf.c itself..
15:49:05domonokyif the look-ahead isnt too big, it could perhaps be done with some buffering in a dsp routine (where it probably would fit better)
15:50:06Blue_DudeI plan to process the buffer in smallish chunks (64 samples or so), but do this only once in a while so processing overhead would be kept to a minimum. (No idea yet how I'd trigger it). It looks like the buffer is trying to go for about a 24000 sample size. So maybe out to 12000 samples between triggers?
15:50:46Blue_DudeAnyway, the operation itself would have to look ahead a maximum of 4000 samples.
15:52:11Blue_DudeAnd the buffer mod would be only on the audio itself (including effects like crossfading), but not on any voice overlay.
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15:55:44domonokyhm, i dont know too much about pcmbuf.c so maybe others can comment too ?
15:57:12domonokybut i would think, that working directly on the buffer might be difficult, as you cant relay on buffer size or how much audio is on the buffer due to the different targets and modes (low-latency mode). so it might get ugly, but feel free to try it out :-)
15:57:56Blue_Dudehm. By low latency you mean that the buffer is intentionally kept to a minimum?
15:58:39domonokyyes, its used when you change sound/dsp settings, so you hear changes as early as possible
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16:01:01Blue_Dudewhat happens then? Is the buffer just refilled from scratch then?
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16:01:45Blue_DudeIf so, that's not fatal. If I change the buffer and it's then thrown out by refilling, I can just restart the operation from the start of the buffer.
16:02:34Blue_DudeIs low latency a common mode?
16:03:50domonokyhm, i am not sure on the details of this, maybe other can comment ?
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16:04:32domonokyi think low-latency mode is only used when changing the sound settings, but again i am not sure :-)
16:06:22Blue_DudeThat's not a huge deal then. If it's just not feasible to do an entire operation at once, then I can set up a rolling scheme that would continue an operation when the buffer is available. But it's more work for me. :)
16:08:00Blue_DudeIf the buffer just isn't there regularly then I can probably get away with a 500 sample lookahead, maybe a bit less. Less would be worse for low freq signals though.
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16:10:45paulk_helo ! I'm reading that the lastest rockbox realase now support jpg and resizing on album art.
16:11:03paulk_It's great, but will rockbox support png soon ???
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16:12:01paulk_???
16:12:12kugelpaulk_: write a decoder
16:12:45paulk_I'm not a programmer...
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16:16:33domonokyBlue_Dude: 500-4000 samples look-ahead doesnt sound big, (thats up to 0.1 seconds?). I think there will be more data in the buffer even in low-latency mode. But i am still unsure if it is the right place..
16:18:24Blue_Dude0.1 seconds is about right. If I can get that much reliably, then I can do an entire operation at once. The idea is to have a 100ms release time programmed in after a gain is applied. That's the part I can do as a rolling operation as needed.
16:19:31Blue_DudeBut for the attack phase I need to look ahead and affect samples before the peak happens. So about 500 samples is needed.
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16:21:30Blue_DudeBut the more the merrier, because I can blaze through a swath of buffer all at once and only have to check on it once in a while (a few times a second).
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16:23:53domonokyso for now, i would suggest putting your code into its own file, try to make it as independent as possible and hook it into pcmbuf.c (for testing). And then ask on the dev-mailing list if there is a better place to put this functionality :-)
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16:24:12Blue_DudeThat sounds like a plan.
16:25:42funmankugel: which parts of the mmu patch do you want to commit, remapping ?
16:27:14funmanthe lcd_blit_yuv paztch could be committed also
16:27:20kugelno, nothing that makes actual changes at least. but for example the additions to mmu-arm.s (probably #ifdef'd) and the #defines in as3525.h I did some time ago
16:27:32kugelI agree
16:27:47funmanwhich additions to mmu-arm.S ??
16:28:29kugelthe latest 2 patches don't have them, but those before
16:28:58kugelmmu_bus_async f.e.
16:29:02funmanthey are not related to mmu at all, so I don't want those to be committed
16:29:59kugelok
16:30:10kugelwe don't need them anymore I guess?
16:30:22funmanno, we can inline them like we do
16:31:31funmanin my opinion we should wait before committing, because we have different approaches to the same problem. Perhaps we can wait to see which one is the best
16:31:58funmanfor example remapping in the bootloader or not (I'm in favor for the not)
16:32:07kugelbut there are common parts to all approaches as far as I can see
16:32:19kugelI think we're all in favor of not doing it
16:34:25kugelthe bootloader should only be making it possible to boot rockbox and print some debug anyway. there's no need to mess with the mmu at all in it
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16:34:59funmani'll try to do more research on the clock frequencies this week (and also try to get a synced tree
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16:44:20Blue_DudeMust run. Thanks for the info, domonoky.
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16:46:08mib_bmb9w2b2Can the rockbox installer replace ipod firmware instead of modifying it so it won't void the EULA
16:47:13mib_bmb9w2b2?
16:47:55BigBambiIt doesn't modify it
16:48:05BigBambiApart from the loader, which replacing it would also change
16:48:13domonokymib_bmb9w2b2: ipodpatcher can do this, but it will still violate the EULA (as it probably talks about installing 3d-party software and not modifing the original).
16:48:14BigBambiRockbox is a complete replacement
16:48:34BigBambiThe Apple firmware is still there on a standard install, and you can boot both
16:48:42BigBambiEULAs are rubbish anyway
16:49:31BigBambiI'd be more concerned about the warantee
16:49:49BigBambiWhich on any player Rockbox runs on has probably long since expired
16:50:44BigBambi*warranty
16:54:06mib_bmb9w2b2so this ipodpatcher just deletes the OF and puts rockbox there?
16:54:13BigBambino
16:54:28BigBambiIt moves it, then inserts a Rockbox bootloader
16:55:08BigBambiSo the apple bootloader calls what is now the Rockbox bootloader, and the Rockbox bootloader then decides whether to run the Apple firmware or Rockbox depending on if you press a button or not
16:55:12 Quit robin0800 ("No Ping reply in 90 seconds.")
16:55:25domonokyBigBambi: it can also replace the OF with the bootloader, or even with rockbox itself :-)
16:55:28BigBambiIt can delete the Apple OF if you really want
16:55:37BigBambidomonoky: Yes, was getting there :)
16:55:41domonoky:-)
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16:55:49mib_bmb9w2b2yeah because the EULA just sez: you may not copy, decompile, reverse engineer, disassemble, attempt to derive the source code of, decrypt, modify, or create derivative works of the iPod Software, iPod Software Updates, or any part thereof.
16:56:05mib_bmb9w2b2so if you just delete it it's okay
16:56:09BigBambiThat's rubbish
16:56:19BigBambiReverse engineering is completely fine for instance
16:56:19mib_bmb9w2b2what?
16:56:26BigBambiWell, outside of the States maybe
16:56:37BigBambiNot sure about there
16:57:03mib_bmb9w2b2yeah legally yes but you shouldn't have agreed to the agreements then
16:57:06domonokythe only place where the EULA matters, is about the Warranty, everything else is practically void.
16:57:10mib_bmb9w2b2if you agreed, you agreed
16:57:17BigBambiRockbox on the ipods has been largely developed by reverse engineering
16:57:33BigBambimib_bmb9w2b2: You can't agree to something that is not legally enforceable
16:58:00mib_bmb9w2b2how do you mean? ofcourse you can
16:58:14Horschtimib_bmb9w2b2, which would require them to hand you a printed version of the EULA before you bought the product...
16:58:14BigBambiThis isn't the place for this
16:58:57BigBambimib_bmb9w2b2: Install it or don't, whatever you like. If you feel you must stick to the EULA like that then you had better not install Rockbox, as major parts of it were developed using reverse engineering
17:00
17:00:06mib_bmb9w2b2I guess I can just email them that I step away from my agreement, and that if they don't like it they can sue me
17:00:15BigBambiOr just don't bother
17:00:22BigBambiSeriously, it really doesn't matter
17:00:28BigBambiBut whatever you want
17:01:28mib_bmb9w2b2ok
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17:04:35dfktdoes the new jpeg AA work with available WPS themes, same as bmp AA?
17:05:21kugelyep
17:05:30dfktnice
17:05:34kugelfolder.jpg works tpp
17:05:36kugeltoo*
17:06:00dfkti might have to make myself a WPS for the x5 then :)
17:07:26dfktis there a way to view the code for *no* WPS, i.e. this screen: http://iaudiophile.net/gallery/albums/iaudio_x5/rockbox/P1010321-1024.jpg
17:07:33dfkti want to build on that, if possible
17:08:17kugelthe code for no wps is literally no code
17:08:31dfktso it's in the binaries?
17:08:34kugellook at rockbox_default.wps (it only contains a comment)
17:08:40kugelyes
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17:09:02dfkti see, too bad
17:09:09BigBambikugel: Doesn't that then load the old default that is hardcoded
17:09:13kugelthe code for that is in apps/gui/gwps-common.c
17:09:24kugelBigBambi: yes
17:09:31BigBambiSo what if you really wanted a blank screen?
17:09:33dfktah, i'll look into it - thanks kugel
17:09:51BigBambiJust something else I guess - like a blank viewport
17:09:59kugelBigBambi: I was referring to the "no wps" he was refering to
17:10:08BigBambiah, OK
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17:10:20BigBambiI thought we were talking about actually no wps
17:10:29BigBambi(I didn't look at the link)
17:10:42kugelyou should before creating noise :)
17:11:11BigBambiYes, but I think calling it "no wps" when there clearly is a wps is a little misleading
17:11:55dfktwell, it's what you get when you choose no wps in the theme browser :)
17:12:16BigBambiHow can you choose no wps?
17:12:28BigBambiYou have to choose rockbox_default to get that don't you?
17:12:53dfktah yes, that's the correct term
17:13:41dfktand thus my questioning about the code for that (default/no) wps
17:15:19kugeldfkt: http://pastie.org/465974
17:15:31dfktthanks a lot, kugel
17:15:38BigBambiIncidently, does anyone else agree that rockbox_default should be renamed?
17:15:45BigBambiAs it isn't the default and all
17:16:08kugelI don't disagree
17:16:10BigBambiPerhaps "rockbox_original" or "rockbox_classic" or some such
17:17:24 Quit SirFunk_ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
17:17:32gevaertsno! rockbox_classic should be the *new* one!
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17:18:06kugelBigBambi: btw, for really getting a no wps, you need to have some code in the wps file ;)
17:18:28BigBambikugel: excellent :)
17:18:54CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
17:18:54*kugel declares the terms "no wps" and "rockbox default wps" as ambiguous
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17:19:41BigBambikugel: Maybe - I don't see it myself - no means lack of, and with rockbox_default there is one
17:20:24BigBambiAnyway, I think we should have a long drawn out debate about renaming rockbox_default :P
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17:20:48kugelI mean, both are ambiguous, not that they both can mean the same
17:20:49dfkti vote for rockbox_3.11_for_workgroups
17:21:08BigBambikugel: ah yes, I can agree then :)
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19:05:25tapiocapuddinghey excuse me if this is a stupid question but is it possible to change the text that reads "Rockbox" across the top of the main menu to something else
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19:10:02tapiocapudding...and now i feel stupid, i didn't even have to download the source
19:10:11*tapiocapudding hangs his head in shame
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19:13:42SliMMhow's the ipod mini battery life compared to OF?
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19:16:18tapiocapuddingOF?
19:16:28BigBambi original firmware
19:16:36BigBambiSliMM: As far as I know should be good
19:17:36SliMMBigBambi: good as in similar, longer, or just acceptably shorter?
19:17:51BigBambiSliMM: Similar I think
19:17:58SliMMoh, ok, great
19:18:18BigBambiMake sure you have options like accessory power off that you don't need
19:18:23SliMMBigBambi: any particular reason why the bootloader freezes with the rb logo
19:18:29BigBambiI don't know
19:18:39SliMMok
19:18:49BigBambiHow/when did you install?
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19:24:34motionman95Could some check my C code for bugs? I can't get it to delete the iconset file. http://mibbit.com/up/TzIHvTXu.c
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19:30:34gevaertsmotionman95: you could start by checking return values
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19:32:46*motionman95 starts checking return values...
19:33:14gevaertsalso look at errno when it fails
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19:39:46kugelmotionman95: you really shouldn't be deleting fonts and iconsets
19:40:04kugelthose are likely to be shared by several themes
19:41:12motionman95kugel: Wow, I never thought about that...I'll change that...
19:41:35kugeland if you're deleting the .wps, you should also delete the corresponding .rwps file
19:42:14motionman95Located where...?
19:42:37kugelin the the same folder
19:42:47kugeland I still don't understand why you don't use settings_parse_line
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19:43:24motionman95I also can't figure out why rmdir() won't work on "/.rockbox/wps/cabbiev2/"
19:44:15kugelmaybe because it's a) not empty and/or b) because it doesn't like the trailing slash?
19:44:37*kugel doesn't know if rmdir works on non-empty dirs
19:45:14motionman95Is there a function that with work on non-empty dirs...?
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19:46:09kugelI don't know. But you could try deleting everything in it before
19:46:41kugelthe linux' rmdir doesn't work on non-empty dirs afair
19:47:13gevaertswhy do you want to remove it if it's not empty?
19:48:14motionman95I'm making bdn432's (sorry for messing his username up) theme remover.
19:49:19gevaertsI know. If there's a file there that the theme configuration doesn't know about, it's not part of the theme and shouldn't be removed...
19:50:05motionman95You sure that's a good idea...? The user wouldn't the wps folder being deleted?
19:50:58kugeldeleting the folder corresponding to the wps without looking at the .wps sounds reasonable to me though
19:51:04gevaertsif it's empty, you can delete it. If it has files in it that don't belong to the theme, you shouldn't delete it
19:52:27kugelmotionman95: I think you should look at settings.c for loading and parsing a config cfg
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19:53:26kugelMAX_LEN should be MAX_PATH (that's what rockbox uses everywhere)
19:54:57motionman95Thanks! Is there someone here who could help me get it on the flyspray?
19:56:13kugelmotionman95: Do you want it to be in svn? Then I advice you to take another look at docs/CONTRIBUTING
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23:10:49hospadarI have a question about database building, I have a gigabeat F40, and whenever I go to build the database, it appears to find all the songs (says "Found <the number of songs I have on it>") and then just hangs there. It seems like an error, but I'm not sure if it's really that or if it's just hanging
23:15:15hospadarIs there anything I should be doing to debug it?
23:16:41gevaertsyou could try to isolate which files cause problems
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23:42:25lee321987I have a 250 song .M3U playlist, and RB keeps freezing. However it doesn't freeze if I select the 250 song folder and do CONTEXT MENU −−> PLAYLIST −−> INSERT. Anyone know what's up, or a workaround?
23:43:54bluebrothercheck the limits in the system settings (though it shouldn't freeze). Is there anything special about the playlist? Is it EXTM3U?
23:44:26lee321987you mean M3U8
23:45:06lee321987are M3U8 playlists more compatible?
23:46:02bluebrotherm3u8 is simply m3u with utf8 encoding.
23:46:44BigBambilee321987: he does mean EXTM3U
23:47:14BigBambii.e. does it have extra information in other than the path/filename of the songs?
23:47:20lee321987are EXTM3Us more compatible? Also - what setting limits playlist size? I dont use the database.
23:47:30lee321987BigBambi: No.
23:47:38lee321987would that be better?
23:47:42BigBambino :)
23:48:42BigBambithere is one for playlist size, I don't remember where - but I think it defaults to greater than 250, and as bluebrother says it shouldn't freeze
23:49:20lee321987yeah, the lowest is 1000
23:49:41lee321987it's a Sansa c200 −− does that mean anything?
23:49:49BigBambishouldn't do
23:50:10lee321987pardon?
23:50:21BigBambiIt shouldn't make any difference
23:50:41lee321987hmm
23:50:53BigBambiIf you create the playlist from within Rockbox then save it, you could compare it to the one that freezes
23:51:15BigBambiThen perhaps we could work out what causes the freeze and fix it :)
23:52:19lee321987ok. One last thing −− the playlist _was_ made outside of RB, and has relative paths. Relative paths shouldn't matter - right?
23:52:42BigBambino, should be fine
23:52:56BigBambiRockbox strips paths one layer at a time anyway
23:53:46BigBambiSo if you have c:\stuff\music\blah.mp3 in the playlist and /music/blah.mp3 on the player, Rockbox will strip the c:\stuff\ so it work
23:53:50BigBambis
23:54:20domonokybluebrother: see FS #10183 for static accessors to RbSettings. :-) Any comments ?

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