#rockbox 2009-05-04

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#rockbox log for 2009-05-04

00:01:01	scorche\|sh	motionman95: please stop always announcing when you are gone and back...it gets annoying...
00:01:55	motionman95	Sorry...I just was thinking that if I was talking to someone, and had to leave...but I guess that's a bad idea. :/
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00:12:14	[1]froggyman	why isnt the gigabeat S a supported target, currently?
00:12:18	ff	http://mibbit.com/up/73mEPzrD.diff
00:13:07	toffe82	[1]froggyman: there is not a simple install and missing the manual
00:13:48	[1]froggyman	ohh, ok
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00:20:41	motionman95	I think SVN may be down. I run "svn update" and I get the error "svn: Unknown hostname 'svn.rockbox.org'"
00:21:21	Bagder	works fine here
00:21:32	Bagder	and that's a DNS problem, not really svn...
00:22:25	gevaerts	Both dns servers work fine
00:23:46	motionman95	My mistake...
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00:25:12	Chubbz	Hello, I'm having trouble getting the rbutil to work under Linux 64 bit
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01:20:41	fizekul	i need a little help with installation on gigabeat s30
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01:21:11		Quit Llorean (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
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01:21:52	fizekul	i have compiled sendfirm in ubuntu, then when i try sendfirm nk.bin, i get the result: libmtp version: 0.3.0 No devices.
01:22:51	fizekul	dmesg just keeps on giving me this [ 3159.812021] hub 1-0:1.0: unable to enumerate USB device on port 4 , which i assume is the mp3 player
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01:55:21	fizekul	actually it appears that the dmesg is the what my wireless card is outputting. the gigabeat is actually not being recognized at all by ubuntu. does anyone know why this would be?
01:58:57	kugel	fizekul: 9.04?
01:59:24	kugel	ubuntu seems sort of broken w.r.t to usb. Did you install the latest updates?
02:00
02:00:10	fizekul	yes it is 9.04
02:00:42	fizekul	i just installed ubuntu last night and downloaded the freshest updates this morning
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02:05:39	fizekul	now i'm kind of worried for the gigabeat. i just connected it to a windows 7 computer that i'm running, and nothing happens there either. i also tried two different usb cables.
02:06:07	fizekul	i forgot, do i have to put it in some kind of "mode" so that it can be detected by the computer?
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02:16:14	Unhelpful	amiconn: so, you think a YUV->RGB scaler output might be a good idea? it shouldn't be hard to do at that stage, i'll just have to add or overload a parameter for YUV output, and the more i think about it, the more i think the savings are worthwhile, since the scaler itself doesn't have any per-input-pixel multiplies
02:17:07	fizekul	thanks for the help. i think my problems are actually hardware related and not software. ill just have to take this thing apart now.
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02:32:58	Llorean	kugel: The 9.04 USB problem (as far as is known) only applies to UMS devices that Ubuntu expects to be using MTP
02:33:06	Llorean	kugel: The Gigabeat S OF would not be a category of thizs
02:34:55	Llorean	It's not a general issue of Ubuntu being broken with regards to USB, but rather a very specific issue with how libgphoto decides when to try to use MTP
02:37:59	saratoga	i'm checking out the latest libgphoto2 now to see if it goes away with an update
02:38:35	Llorean	saratoga: Well, gevaerts went to their IRC channel, and they committed a change that was supposed to fix it.
02:39:11	kkurbjun	kugel, I saw your message about the backlight fading; thanks for putting together the wiki on it. I had a question though: what is the reason for differentiating BACKLIGHT_FADING_SW_HW_REG and BACKLIGHT_FADING_SW_SETTING? It seems like it would be less complex to have one define along with dummy functions for players that don't specifically need _backlight_on and _backlight_off
02:39:22	saratoga	yeah just struggling now with their install directions
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02:40:10	kkurbjun	I might misunderstand how the two are used, but it would seem better to have the dummy functions there anyway in case someone decides to disable backlight fading in the config.h file
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02:42:00	kugel	kkurbjun: have you seen the 1 part where HW_REG is different? You can't dummy/stub _backlight_set_brightness() I think
02:43:44	kkurbjun	don't they both use _backlight_set_brightness?
02:45:07	kkurbjun	I'm looking at the sansa e200v2 vs. the cowon x5 and they generally seem to be the same setup
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02:45:41	kugel	kkurbjun: HW_REG needs an additional call
02:45:44	saratoga	any idea if libusb support is required in gphoto ? i'm guessing it is but the version ubuntu comes with is apparently too old so I'm not sure if they build with it
02:46:17	kugel	kkurbjun: you can't do that on SW_SETTING as it would turn the backlight on again
02:46:34	motionman95	Has anyone seen the patches I've added to the Flyspray? Thanks for the suggestion of setting it up myself, Llorean!
02:46:46	kugel	saratoga: gphoto is fixed as of a few days ago iirc
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02:48:07	kkurbjun	kugel, on the x5 it looks like two different registers are written to
02:48:08	saratoga	kugel: yeah i know but installing it is another thing enitrely given that ubuntu seems quite far behind libgphoto in terms of dependencies
02:48:13	Llorean	motionman95: You've admitted in both tasks that there's still a lot to do. I imagine a lot of people will be more interested in them once they're closer to being in a good condition.
02:48:47	kkurbjun	on the gigabeat also you can write to the brightness registers with the backlight turned off and it won't turn it back on
02:48:53	motionman95	Llorean: Good point...
02:50:02	kkurbjun	and on the targets that are set to "setting" it wouldn't be a problem either
02:50:12	kkurbjun	since your setitng the brightness to 0 anyway
02:50:21	kugel	it will on as3514 though
02:51:16	kkurbjun	3525?
02:51:20	kugel	there's no seperate register for backlight on or off
02:51:26	kkurbjun	it's writing 0 in there too
02:51:44	kkurbjun	is your min brighness not set to 0?
02:51:44	kugel	no, as3514 (the codec used in the v1 sansas), that one is in the as3525 too though
02:51:54	kugel	backlight is controlled over i2c on the codec
02:52:09	kugel	yes, but writing the lowest level will turn it on
02:52:26	motionman95	Llorean: I not sure what you mean by "both tasks" because I only said that in one...:/
02:53:22	motionman95	Whoops, I correct myself...I forgot what I had written...
02:53:25	kkurbjun	on the v1 it looks like it does the same thing
02:53:33	Llorean	motionman95: You said the key locking one lacks keymaps for any target but c200. While in the other one, you mentioned that it really doesn't do much yet since it requires the one theme config file to be in the same folder as it, etc, et.c
02:53:41	kkurbjun	wries a 0 into the brightness register
02:54:00	motionman95	see previous post...
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02:54:06	kugel	kkurbjun: It's not about turning off
02:54:28	kugel	it's about writing the lowest level into the register so that it starts with lowest brightness on the next fading up
02:54:48	kugel	backlight.c line 464
02:54:56	kkurbjun	yeah, I'm looking at it
02:55:41	kkurbjun	on the hw reg version you call turn off, then write a 0 in there (which is still a turn off for "setting")
02:56:18	kkurbjun	the only way I see it not working is if the MIN_BRIGHTNESS_LEVEL is set to something other than 0
02:56:19	saratoga	checking out libgphoto2 from svn and compiling from source fixed the sansa e200v1 mounting problem for me
02:56:24	kugel	and then you need to write 1 to it
02:56:34	kugel	for the next fade up
02:56:47	kugel	MIN_BRIGHTNESS is always > 0
02:58:05	kkurbjun	ok, that makes sense then
02:58:45	kkurbjun	what about using a MIN_BRIGHTNESS_SETTING and an OFF_BRIGHTNESS_SETTING instead of two defines for the hw_reg and setting?
02:59:33	kkurbjun	unless 0 is not valid for all targets
02:59:48	kugel	what would that change?
03:00
03:00:01	kugel	this: _backlight_set_brightness(MIN_BRIGHTNESS_SETTING); will be broken on e200
03:00:20	Unhelpful	saratoga: i believe you're one of us who has some understanding of DCT/IDCT?
03:00:26	kkurbjun	I was thinking of either hard setitng that to 0 instead of 1
03:00:35	kkurbjun	unless you can't write 0 into all of the registers
03:01:02	kkurbjun	or hard setting that to off_brightness_setting as a define to eliminate some of the ifdef stuff in backlight.c
03:02:31	saratoga	Unhelpful: yeah some, why?
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03:04:51	Unhelpful	saratoga: it's related to the 16-point extended DCT that the JPEG decoder is using. it adds some extra blockiness, i believe because the DCT "thinks" of the endpoints of the block as continuous with each other. the best solution i've got so far is to only use it on chroma channels, so it will not be very obvious
03:04:59	kugel	kkurbjun: that won't work on HW_REG
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03:05:20	kugel	you need to write the lowest level which is still backlight, not 0
03:05:26	Unhelpful	this woud mean the decoder can't upscale non-subsampled images x2, but that's not a big deal.
03:05:45	kkurbjun	hmm, why is that?
03:06:24	kugel	ask the manufacturers :)
03:06:35	saratoga	Unhelpful: let me make sure i understand, doesn't jpeg use 8x8 blocks?
03:07:38	kkurbjun	well, I guess I'm wondering what the effect would be, it looks like there are two separate registers for the x5 and h300 (h300 actually uses a gpio to turn off)
03:08:15	kugel	yep
03:08:23	Unhelpful	saratoga: it does. the downscale-on-decode modes use 2x2 and 4x4 IDCT on the top-left portion of the file DCT data. this seems to work great. the upscale case is an optimized version of a 16-point IDCT, with the "missing" coefficients filled out with zeroes.
03:08:51	kkurbjun	kugel, that says to me that you could write a 0 in there since there is something else that is actually turning it off
03:08:55	saratoga	i don't see why you'd use a DCT to upscale though
03:09:02	saratoga	isn't that very slow verses time domain interpolation?
03:09:35	kugel	kkurbjun: MIN_BRIGHTNESS_SETTING is also > 0 since it's used it the settings when you chose your brightness
03:10:20	kkurbjun	yep, that makes sense I suppose if you don't want the backlight to turn off on you
03:10:31	kugel	I'm not sure if 0 will work. I don't own such a target
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03:14:38	kkurbjun	kugel, looking at the pcf50606 datasheet it looks like you can write a 0 in there and the duty cycle will just be set at 0/16
03:14:54	kkurbjun	in efffect being off
03:14:57	Unhelpful	saratoga: the optimized 16-point IDCT is 28 multiplies. the 8-point IDCT is 12, with probably about 1 multiply per input and per output point to do linear scaling up.
03:16:14	kkurbjun	that covers the h300 and x5 at least, I'm not sure what the d2 has
03:16:49	saratoga	28 multiplies to calculate a 256 point transform?
03:16:56	saratoga	or is this the 1D case?
03:17:07	Unhelpful	1D
03:17:23	kugel	this would be done in _backlight_off() then though (making the call unecessary). I don't know what the d2 exactly has, but it looks very similar to the h300
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03:17:36	saratoga	so basically you take 8 points, pad to 16 points and do an inverse transform but it looks blocky
03:17:44	saratoga	i wouldn't expect that but let me see what matlab thinks
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03:18:06	kkurbjun	kugel, it looks like backlight off for the x5 and h300 do some additional power saving measures
03:18:41	kkurbjun	but it still looks like the two defines could be combined if that backlight brightness was hardcoded to 0 instead of MIN
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03:18:51	xathullu	Im having getting my computer to recognize my 80g viedo ipod. Ive tried a few diff OS. Anyone heard of this?
03:18:58	xathullu	trouble*
03:19:03	kkurbjun	looks like the d2 is the pcf5606 also
03:19:38	kugel	kkurbjun: only if 0 for _backlight_set_brightness works. And then it should be done in _backlight_off which means we don't need MIN_BRIGHNTESS_SETTING to be 0
03:21:09	kugel	also, h300 ORs the value with 0x01, i.e. it will always be at least 1 even if MIN_BRIGHTNESS_SETTING is 0
03:21:24	kkurbjun	kugel, that is setting a pwm on bit
03:21:28	Unhelpful	saratoga: keep in mind, that's not a "true" 16-point IDCT - it knows that 8 of its coefficients are 0 ;)
03:21:46	saratoga	Unhelpful: I tried doing this in matlab using an FFT and it actually looks quite bad like you expect, but I'm not grasping why
03:21:49	kkurbjun	so you could have the pwm on but with a duty cycle of 0 it won't be lit
03:22:48	kkurbjun	the off is taken care of in a different register on the x5, and on the d2 and h300 it is a gpio
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03:24:18	kugel	so, take pcf50606_write(0x35, 0); into _backlight_off() and pcf50606_write(0x35, backlight_brightness \| 0x1); into _backlight_on() might do it
03:24:20	Unhelpful	saratoga: i believe it has to do with the assumed continuity of the endpoints. it's very, very obvious if you put a simple 0->N ramp through the process, you can see that it flattens at both ends
03:24:45	saratoga	Unhelpful: yeah thats one problem, but I also see ringing about my ramp
03:24:51	saratoga	which confuses me
03:25:39	kkurbjun	kugel, I think they are powering down more with the gpio to add to the savings when its fully turned off
03:26:02	kugel	yea, I meant adding, not replacing :)
03:26:34	kkurbjun	oh, I see what you mean
03:26:44	kkurbjun	yes, I think that could do it
03:27:13	kkurbjun	or just set the min brightness in the backlight-target.c file and then the define isn't needed
03:27:30	kugel	btw, backlight_brightness is a global, you don't need a copy of it in the backlight driver (the mr500 has one)
03:28:22	kkurbjun	_backlight_set_brightness?
03:28:42	kkurbjun	oh
03:28:44	kkurbjun	the variable
03:28:47	kugel	yep
03:29:08	Unhelpful	hrm... ringing comes about when you're not messing with the transform size because of terms that have been changed by quanization (in the lossy compression case). i wonder how it would be showing up here, clearly half of the frequency components can't be there because they never existed :/
03:29:13	kkurbjun	thanks for the heads up, I'll take that out
03:29:58	kugel	well, but you want to #ifdef the code in backlight_on out then
03:30:27	kugel	(see sansa c200/e200 backlight driver)
03:31:17	saratoga	Unhelpful: i guess in my case since I'm using the FFT and zero padding I'm breaking symetry and thus getting a non-real inverse transform, which is probably why I get the ringing
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03:32:55	kkurbjun	kugel, it's working fine now, but I guess that's a consequence of how backlight.c calls it
03:33:17	kugel	what did you do?
03:34:04	kkurbjun	so, to be clear do you agree that the hw_reg and setting defines could be combined into one, or am I still missing something?
03:34:19	kkurbjun	well, it fades fine in and out
03:34:22	kugel	backlight_brightness holds the value of the settings (the value passed to backlight_set_brightness), not the value that was written to the hardware at last (not the value passed to _backlight_set_brightness, which the fading calls)
03:34:24	kkurbjun	without an ifdef
03:34:41	kugel	you should be noticing glitchy fading up :/
03:34:41	kkurbjun	yeah, I know
03:34:50	kkurbjun	it seems to be working ok
03:35:14	kugel	hm, on e200 without that #ifdef'd out, the brightness goes to the normal level before fading up
03:35:28	kugel	due to the initial _backlight_on call
03:35:29	Unhelpful	mm. i had hoped that using an inverse DCT-I might help, because of DCT-I's different assumptions about the extension of data outside the sampled region... didn't really make a big difference, just looking at the numbers, and other bad things happen, as well... i wonder what taking the middle 16 values of, say, an 18-point IDCT might do? probably better results on a ramp, but worse in many realistic cases...
03:36:08	kkurbjun	yeah, that makes sense, I wonder why it's not causing a problem on the m:robe, but I see your point, I'll throw it in there for good measure
03:36:11	kugel	yes, I of course agree to collapsing both fadings. this subtle difference always made me unhappy since it creates ugly #ifs
03:38:27	saratoga	Unhelpful: trying this with a real dct (just realized matlab could do them) actually looks quite good, just a bit of inflection on the last and first samples
03:38:31	saratoga	is that really visible?
03:39:35	Unhelpful	it is in luma... when only the chroma channel is upscaled this way, i don't find it terribly distracting.
03:41:14	saratoga	the 18 point truncated to 16 point actually looks very good
03:43:00	Unhelpful	saratoga: hrm... how about on things other than the ramp?
03:44:07	saratoga	Unhelpful: i think it should be fine for everything
03:44:14	saratoga	which DCT is jpeg using?
03:44:52	kugel	kkurbjun: I'm wondering how the fading looks like on the mr500. 127 brightness levels, and a huge screen. sounds awesome :)
03:45:11	Unhelpful	IJG's tools don't have expanding IDCT in 6b, only reducing. 7pre uses the same expanding IDCT i used, but it doesn't have an 18-point for me to steal :/
03:45:17	kugel	oh, and #define MIN_BRIGHTNESS_SETTING 0 should really be 1
03:45:34	saratoga	Unhelpful: libmad has an 18 point DCT type 4
03:46:13	saratoga	shoot wrong flavor then
03:46:23	Unhelpful	oh, you mean which type? JPEG is type 2, which has type 3 as an inverse
03:47:27	saratoga	hmm sdctII in libmad sounds promising, if not for that s
03:48:36	saratoga	ah "scaled DCT type 2"
03:48:40	saratoga	sounds like what you want?
03:49:47	Unhelpful	if it's inverse...
03:51:46	saratoga	yeah its inverse
03:52:30	*	Unhelpful looks to see if he already has libmad sources...
03:53:49	saratoga	Unhelpful: they're included in rockbox
03:54:11	Unhelpful	i wasn't sure how much we've messed with them.... i don't see any but imdct?
03:54:30	saratoga	actually i'm not sure if I understand the DCT well enough, so maybe its not the inverse? I thought the DCT-II is the forward and the DCT-III is the backwards?
03:54:40	saratoga	they're in layer3.c
03:55:50	Unhelpful	saratoga: the DCT-III is the inverse of the DCT-II. they are commonly used, and DCT-II is sometimes referred to as "the" DCT, and DCT-III as "the" IDCT.
03:56:49	saratoga	so the jpeg decoder actually needs a type 3 DCT?
03:57:21	Unhelpful	and this looks like one: void sdctII(mad_fixed_t const x[18], mad_fixed_t X[18])
03:57:51	saratoga	yeah but thats the forward transform then, not the inverse
03:58:09	saratoga	oddly enough it seems you can compute the inverse DCT 4 via a forward DCT 2
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03:58:43	saratoga	for some reason I thought the decoder needed the forward transform, but that wouldn't make sense
03:58:58	Unhelpful	with post-processing, or are they each other's inverses like 2/3?
03:59:53	Unhelpful	JPEG seems to use the variation given under "Some authors further..." here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrete_cosine_transform#DCT-II
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04:33:30	evilwombat	Hello. Where might one find the archos recorder schematics? I've got a unit that won't charge following wrong polarity and would like to fix the issue. Finally got the replacement charge controller chip, but I remember there being a BJT involved?
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05:23:20	AidanSonoda	Apologies for resorting to IRC, but I'm having some trouble creating voicefiles (particularly for archos recorder, but also tried iPod 4G) with the utility (rbutilqt.exe on winxp). I was able to do this on the iPod last week, but when I attempt it now I get "The downloaded file was empty" in the pop-up dialogue. Google turned up a pair of mailling archive entries from march but no answers.
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05:37:09	AidanSonoda	−− incidently, I can generate .talk clips (for directories & files) with the same settings. So I assume this has something to do with the file containing the list of menu entries to be voiced.
05:44:47	cool_walking_	I'm trying to get a 240GB HDD working in a Gigabeat S, and I get the "file not found" bootloader error. As suggested on GigabeatSInstallation, I tried using a tarred build, but when the bootloader attempted to extract it, all the files had (can't remember exact wording now) "can't create file"-type errors.
05:44:50	cool_walking_	I have compiled both the bootloader and build with "#define HAVE_LBA48" in config-gigabeat-s.h, but in bootloader USB mode, the second partition shows up as only ~128GiB.
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06:14:56	CIA-63	New commit by kkurbjun (r20849): M:Robe 500: Add backlight cleanups and fix power management so that dangerous and shutoff voltages are taken care of, carge discharge curves are ...
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06:25:44	evilwombat	seriously, where did the archos recorder schematics go?
06:25:55	evilwombat	looked at twiki and my xchat logs, can't find it ..
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07:14:19	linuxstb	evilwombat: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/HardwareSchematics ?
07:14:31	evilwombat	linuxstb, thanks!
07:15:57	linuxstb	cool_walking_: The original firmware works fine with that disk?
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07:16:46	cool_walking_	Dunno, haven't tried.
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07:17:15	cool_walking_	Give'us a bit, I'll try it soonish, but I'm multitasking.
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07:31:27	BiptoN	hey there folks, how would i go about requesting to re-open an old task?
07:32:21	Llorean	Is it a bug that's come back?
07:32:33	Llorean	Those it's generally acceptable to start a new task for.
07:36:16	BiptoN	it's the same recording issue i experienced over two years ago on my 4th gen ipods and my 5.5 30gb
07:36:27	BiptoN	actually every ipod i could test recording on
07:36:39	BiptoN	now i have an 80gb 5.5
07:36:53	BiptoN	and it's the EXACT same noise
07:37:10	Llorean	What SVN revision are you using, and what's the original FS number?
07:37:33	BiptoN	http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/6989
07:37:41	BiptoN	i tried the latest stable 3.2
07:37:50	BiptoN	and a 3 day old svn build
07:38:04	BiptoN	i was just about to test an svn i built an hour ago
07:38:21	Llorean	Please do testing on the builds we provide, rather than ones you compile.
07:38:30	BiptoN	i built it without headphone detection
07:38:35	BiptoN	those were your builds
07:38:43	BiptoN	this is the first one i've done
07:39:00	BiptoN	the noise is still on the right channel as before
07:39:00	Llorean	Regardless, any future testing should still be done with ones we provide.
07:39:05	BiptoN	np
07:39:14	Llorean	Are you recording from the same source, or have you tried different sources?
07:39:19	BiptoN	i'll elave out any info on home builds
07:39:23	BiptoN	different sources
07:39:27	BiptoN	different codecs
07:39:37	BiptoN	wav and wavpack
07:39:43	BiptoN	44.1 and 48k
07:39:55	BiptoN	line-in and headphone jack for source
07:40:09	Llorean	Different source not different inputs.
07:40:21	BiptoN	you can get the noise if you just start recording with or without any mics
07:40:28	Llorean	As in, used a different mic or audio player to record from?
07:40:29	BiptoN	only different mics
07:40:45	BiptoN	but like i said
07:40:50	BiptoN	you don't need a source
07:40:54	Llorean	Please don't break sentences across lines.
07:40:58	BiptoN	the noise is there when you fire up
07:41:04	BiptoN	sorry
07:41:43	Llorean	Post a new bug, give detailed directions on how to reproduce the issue with current SVN builds then.
07:42:13	BiptoN	will do, thank you much.
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07:45:52	cool_walking_	linuxstb: The OF only sees ~127GB
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09:04:12	*	Llorean wishes non-developers wouldn't update the MajorChanges page.
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09:24:57	coney	:D
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09:35:41	robin0800	This post appears under rockbox utility http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=21559.0 this is clearly wrong but if subject matter is true a bug report is needed
09:36:46	cool_walking_	I think it may be a simple hardware issue (RAM come loose)
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10:36:55	J-23	does MP3 playback work on v2 Sansas?
10:37:15	Llorean	Not reliably.
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11:26:19	martian67_	Llorean, just market it as a quantum software advance
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11:41:31	AngryToaster	Good evening, I am having some trouble with my H10 and installing Rockbox. I've installed the latest iriver firmware, and installed Rockbox as per the manual's instructions, but am still receiving the "System Files Missing" error on startup. I have double checked I've done it correctly with no avail. Any assistance would be appreciated.
11:41:59	Llorean	Was it working before you installed Rockbox?
11:42:05	AngryToaster	Yes.
11:42:11	Llorean	Which method did you use to install?
11:42:38	AngryToaster	I've tried the complete and minimal options (used the iriver restore program after each attempt).
11:43:27	Llorean	So you're using RBUtil?
11:43:40	AngryToaster	rbutilqt.exe
11:43:46	AngryToaster	Downloaded it from the website last night.
11:44:38	Llorean	And which H10 do you have? is it UMS or in UMS mode?
11:45:57	AngryToaster	It normally says MTP on startup, but after I used the iriver firmware upgrade tool it says PFD.
11:46:27	AngryToaster	I booted it into the mode it requires by holding the "o" button as instructed.
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11:46:36	AngryToaster	for each attempt to install.
11:46:36	Llorean	And which H10 do you have?
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11:46:58	AngryToaster	its a 20gig,
11:47:06	Llorean	Does rbutil correctly auto-detect it?
11:47:07	AngryToaster	do you need the FCCID or anything?
11:47:31	AngryToaster	it didnt the first time, but seemed to recognise it each subsequent attempt
11:47:46	Llorean	On subsequent attempts, the .rockbox folder was probably still there.
11:47:57	AngryToaster	I formatted the drive completely each attempt.
11:48:41	Llorean	Have you tried the manual installation instructions?
11:49:41	AngryToaster	No I have not. Will give it a try now.
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11:59:48	ihp	hello.. maybe u have old ihp-120 EU firmware.. I have not & iriver support page is deleted.. thx for help (tip)
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12:01:30	ihp	(1.60 version)
12:02:20	BigBambi	ihp: check rasher.dk/rockbox/iriver-firmwares/">http://rasher.dk/rockbox/iriver-firmwares/
12:02:40	ihp	fok.. cool
12:02:44	AngryToaster	Fantastic, that's done the trick. Appreciate your assistance, Llorean. Have a good evening!
12:02:49	ihp	2 days search :)
12:03:00	ihp	ty much
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13:57:57	kugel	kkurbjun: :/
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14:04:34	CIA-63	New commit by kugel (r20850): CONFIG_BACKLIGHT_FADING is always defined, so better ask for BACKLIGHT_NO_FADING.
14:05:32	Unhelpful	Zagor: i seem to have found, or created, a dependency problem. apps/plugin/lib/pluginlib_bmp.c isn't rebuilt when recorder/bmp.c changes :/
14:05:58	Zagor	Unhelpful: I'll take a look
14:08:21	Unhelpful	hrm... well, i think part of it is created. that include, in my local branch, depends on HAVE_BMP_SCALING.
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14:17:08	Unhelpful	it appears that it doesn't appear in make.dep if the include is conditional, even if the condition is true (i've added a #define HAVE_BMP_SCALING to all targets with HAVE_ALBUM_ART in their config-target.h)
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14:24:25	Zagor	Unhelpful: I'd rather suspect it's due to the ../.. path
14:24:34	kugel	Unhelpful: do you include config.h?
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14:32:32	Unhelpful	Zagor: changing that didn't help.
14:32:41	Zagor	which target are you testing on?
14:33:14	Zagor	I just tried with archos recorder and I get a dependency for "apps/plugins/lib/../../recorder/bmp.c" in make.dep
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14:39:16	Unhelpful	Zagor: i believe the condition for the include in SVN is LCD_DEPTH == 1? i'm not sure why changing that should keep it out of make.dep. i'm testing on ipod4g sim, and it doesn't include it in make.dep if the include is conditional on HAVE_BMP_SCALING, whether or not that's defined. and config.h is included. :)
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14:40:54	kugel	isn't 4g greyscale or even color?
14:41:27	kugel	i.e. wouldn't it build the scaler in the core anyway?
14:42:03	BigBambi	4th Gen greyscale and 4th gen colour a.k.a. the Color/Photo :)
14:42:26	Unhelpful	kugel: the point is that i'm trying to make the scaler in core optional. and it works fine except for some dep issues
14:43:41	kugel	Zagor: is the fuze already in the way?
14:44:19	Zagor	kugel: ehrm, no. it's here on my desk. I've been away a week, I'll try to get it out today.
14:44:41	kugel	ah ok
14:46:46	Unhelpful	Zagor: i see the same thing here. very odd. i wonder why it can figure out #if LCD_DEPTH > 1/#else and not #ifndef HAVE_BMP_SCALING...
14:48:09	Zagor	I would think it's something where that define is set, rather than in the condition
14:48:21	Zagor	is the patch available?
14:48:55	Unhelpful	i can make it so ;)
14:50:40	Unhelpful	http://pastie.org/467584
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14:52:39	Unhelpful	the good news is that aside from the deps issue, there seems to be no problem making JPEG and BMP scaling independently optional - core can be built without either, and the disabled feature becomes available in pluginlib, with read_image_file using the pluginlib version instead of core :)
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15:14:55	kugel	Zagor: can you take a look at r20830 please? libuisimulator.a apparently needs to be linked twice
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15:15:17	blagger	hello
15:15:45	blagger	could some1 help me ?
15:16:02	Zagor	kugel: ???
15:16:11	BigBambi	blagger: Only if you ask a question :)
15:16:49	kugel	Zagor: see what I did to uisimulator.make. I got a whole lot of undefined references at linking
15:17:34	blagger	I've been trying to get this installed on a ipod 8gb nano
15:17:50	LambdaCalculus37	And Rockbox won't work on the 8GB nano.
15:17:57	blagger	but ipopatcher keeps telling me no ipods dected
15:18:17	LambdaCalculus37	Because Rockbox does not work on newer nanos; only the 1st generation model.
15:18:23	BigBambi	blagger: See the list of players Rockbox works on at www.rockbox.org
15:18:46	blagger	frig it why do i always get stung with hardware that cant be hacked :(
15:19:32	blagger	there seems to be so many generations its hard to tell which one u have
15:20:16	LambdaCalculus37	blagger: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1353
15:20:58	blagger	will they be developing a system for the 3rd gen nanos?
15:22:23	BigBambi	Only if someone that wants it does the work
15:22:42	BigBambi	But it is a hard proposition - encrypted firmware being the first major problem
15:22:52	blagger	why does it run on the 1st gen but not the 3rd gen?
15:23:08	froggyman	different hardware, they are completely different
15:23:23	blagger	pitty even tried to load it in Unbuntu thru a virtual machine in VMware
15:23:47	BigBambi	It doesn't matter how you try - the different generations of nano are completely different internally
15:24:08	LambdaCalculus37	And the firmware is encrypted, and no one has figured out the encryption yet.
15:24:12	froggyman	if you just so happen to be an encyrption god, you might be able to help get the port started though
15:24:28	blagger	lol dont think so
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15:24:58	blagger	but thanks for your help been trying for hours to get it loaded now i know why it wont ever work :(
15:24:59	froggyman	then you probaly wont be able to help to much
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15:33:47	gevaerts	LinusN: rumours have it that you have X5 joysticks. Is that still true, and if so, could I get one?
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16:37:25	Unhelpful	Zagor: ...apparently i was working too early. surely the ipod4gray will not follow my edits to config-ipodvideo.h :/
16:37:48	Zagor	heh
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16:39:34	Unhelpful	also, removing the relative include should not be a problem, you made sure filenames were unique ages ago because of conflicts between the pluginlib's bmp.h and the core one. since this amounts to a code/include cleanup, i may as well get those, too.
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17:11:12	Unhelpful	now that i'm not stupid about which config.h i'm editing, any general objections to HAVE_BMP_SCALING and HAVE_JPEG?
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17:46:45	CIA-63	New commit by unhelpful (r20851): Make JPEG and BMP scaler optional with HAVE_JPEG and HAVE_BMP_SCALING, both defined for all targets that have HAVE_ALBUMART. Disable JPEG in ...
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18:02:24	CIA-63	New commit by unhelpful (r20852): Fix red on Player
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18:24:43	kugel	Unhelpful: hehe, next one trapping into charcell :P
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19:22:02	Slasheri	add 0 sawu@hotmail.co.uk
19:22:12	Slasheri	ups, sorry. wrong window :)
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20:26:40	BigBambi	domonoky: rbutil question - when rbutil gives the unsupported ipod prompt, is it possible to tell exactly which one? So it could i.e. say "Sorry, this is an 6th Generation Classic" or somesuch?
20:27:05	BigBambi	It might help spell it out to people
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20:28:57	domonoky	BigBambi: only if we would have the USB-IDs of all unsupported ipods..
20:29:27	BigBambi	domonoky: There aren't too many I guess - 3 gens of nano and the classic (+ shuffle maybe)
20:30:16	BigBambi	domonoky: As it is we not infrequently get people still thinking they have a 5th gen, or 1st gen nano and querying rbutil - perhaps if we were more specific it might help
20:30:53	domonoky	BigBambi: to be more exact, currently it cant do this. it just stores "unknown ipod target", But it would be possible to extent it.
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20:31:15	BigBambi	domonoky: Perhaps a thought for the future :)
20:31:58	domonoky	maybe add it to the rbutilDev wiki page, so it doesnt get forgotten ?
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20:33:01	BigBambi	Sure
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20:36:26	BigBambi	domonoky: Would you prefer it as milestone 2 or 3 (or seperate)?
20:36:57	domonoky	i think it would fit under 2. But do as you like :-)
20:37:12	BigBambi	I think 2 too, I just didn't want to tread on your toes :)
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22:09:37	Unhelpful	hrm... worth ~2.4KiB to add a greyscale scaler to color targets to make loading greyscale jpegs faster? seems like it's not really going to be a common case...
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22:10:11	BigBambi	Unhelpful: It is just speed, they otherwise work fine?
22:10:22	BigBambi	And how much faster? :)
22:10:35		Nick Me is now known as Guest55002 (n=47ba40e2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-b14b81a030c861dd)
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22:11:40	Unhelpful	make the scaling stage (but not decode) ~3x faster, since it's scaling in greyscale, then copying to the r/g/b channels, rather than the other way around. i don't see people with color devices having a big pile of b/w jpegs on them, but maybe somebody does :P
22:12:21		Quit {phoenix} (Remote closed the connection)
22:12:22	BigBambi	I wouldn't have thought it was very common, no
22:13:03	Unhelpful	i suspect it's dead code that won't be used much, and my efforts are better spent elsewhere.
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22:14:49	froggyman	is work being done getting a MTP mode for rockbox?
22:15:29	BigBambi	not currently
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22:15:47	BigBambi	Although there is a GSOC project that should lay some good groundwork
22:16:14	BigBambi	A possibly get on to it, not sure about that
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22:20:37	froggyman	ok, because if a MTP mode were made that would easily double the programs that rockbox could use for music transfer
22:21:30	BigBambi	I think you will find that the vast majority of the devs use copy and paste or rsync or something
22:21:34	Unhelpful	there are ones that don't support MSC?
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22:21:57	BigBambi	No idea, I dislike music management stuff
22:22:32	Unhelpful	and some of us use overly complex python scripts. ;)
22:27:25	froggyman	I prefer having a setup where i can have my playlists change when connected, but right now i havent found a decent program to do this so now i use the windows explorer approach
22:27:59	froggyman	tried MM but dont really like it, but anyways I am getting off topic
22:32:25	*	evilnick wonders if a page in the Wiki that shows what people use to manage their music collections might be useful
22:32:45	Bagder	I think there already is such a page
22:33:12	BigBambi	I think someone started one, and then was questioned as to why it belongs in the Rockbox wiki :)
22:33:52	evilnick	Did the reply "because this gets asked so often" not suffice? ;)
22:35:19	BigBambi	I can't seem to find it now
22:37:43	BigBambi	Maybe it never was created
22:38:33	evilnick	Plus it'd give people something to aim for as regards geekiness! "I want to be just like gevaerts" (for example)!!
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22:51:44	mik3	hey fellas
22:51:47	mik3	(and ladies)
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22:52:07	mik3	can anyone tell me really quick if it's possible to make my rockbox device play random tracks from different folders?
22:52:17	evilnick	yes it is
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22:52:31	mik3	ok cool thanks
22:52:34		Nick linuxstb_ is now known as linuxstb (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
22:52:50	BigBambi	mik3: Make a playlist of everything on the device, then turn on shuffle
22:52:59	BigBambi	Or insert the folders you want shuffled
22:53:16	linuxstb	Or use the database...
22:54:47	mik3	oh right
22:54:47	mik3	dur
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23:15:27	coolrock	Hi, I want to upgrade, what files and folders do I need to backup?
23:16:17	BigBambi	none, just overwrite
23:16:31	BigBambi	If you want to back up first, then backup the .rockbox folder
23:16:49	coolrock	Thank you
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23:35:25	froggyman	what parts of the rockbox code is written in assembler?
23:36:02	saratoga	various bits
23:36:15	saratoga	codecs, some drivers, some of the init for the various CPUs
23:36:29	saratoga	anything that can't be expressed easily in c or would be too slow
23:36:38	froggyman	ok
23:36:41	froggyman	thanks
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