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#rockbox log for 2009-05-10

00:00:39linuxstbI mean applying the patch against the current cook.c, not a 2 year old one.
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00:02:46mtlinuxstb : why not apply the patch to the older revision and then add the relevant patches later ?
00:03:52linuxstbBecause the diffs against the current code in svn won't make any sense.
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00:09:13mtlinuxstb : I'll try to manually apply the changes to the current cook.c then.
00:10:40mtI have to go now. Goodnight everyone !
00:11:18linuxstbmt: Or you could apply the changes from 2007 to 2009 to your cook.c. As long as you do it before producing the next patch, it doesn't matter.
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01:15:20CIA-38New commit by 03dave (r20897): Patch by Mohamed Tarek - add #define to protect against multiple inclusion
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01:24:16CIA-38New commit by 03dave (r20898): Patch by Mohamed Tarek from FS #10182: 1) Move the main() test program from cook.c to a new main.c; 2) Move some common definitions from cook.c to ...
01:31:25soapOk, it's been awhile since the new theme site has gone up. Still many authors have not moved their themes over. Is it time to discuss the fate of the (permissively licensed) themes on the wiki, or is the consensus to let them rot?
01:32:43saratogaI think if people want to move them they might as well
01:33:08saratogathe authors can always contact the theme site admins if they want to update their themes at some point in the future
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01:37:34soapIIRC the argument had been made that "forcing" the theme author to explicitly acknowledge the license agreement on the theme site would be best...
01:37:56LloreanIf the theme's already CC licensed, haven't they already agreed to it?
01:38:09LloreanWell, licensed under that specific CC license, that is
01:38:58LloreanOn the other hand, we could just ignore all the old themes. Remove all the existing pages, dump *all* of them into a page called ThemeGraveyard, and then (if it's possible) make that place read only.
01:39:10LloreanThere's not a reason we have to migrate them.
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01:41:24saratogaif they're under compatible license we should move them
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01:41:28Dillizarany body here
01:42:16LloreanDillizar: Did you have a specific question?
01:42:32Dillizarwell
01:42:34Dillizarhttp://www.rockbox.org/mail/archive/rockbox-archive-2009-02/0027.shtml
01:42:51LloreanThat's not exactly a question.
01:42:59Dillizari found this and i want to know the guy that installed rockbox on his philips or where can i find him
01:43:32LloreanWell, that's an email from the mailing list, and it includes an email address.
01:44:20Dillizarthere isnt a rockbox for philips gogear 6320
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01:44:25Dillizari cant understand
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01:45:18LloreanDillizar: That message was discussing development. That person did some work on it, and managed to get audio.
01:45:38scorcheright...but a port is in the process of being worked on...when it becomes ready for people to use, it will be announced as such and made available on the website
01:45:54Dillizarah kewl
01:46:08Dillizarand how long does usualy takes
01:46:14LloreanThere is no "usually"
01:46:27Dillizarusually*
01:46:29LloreanIt can happen very quickly, or it can never happen because the person becomes too busy and nobody new picks it up.
01:49:49Dillizarkewl
01:49:57Dillizarso i still have hope :)
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03:58:14saratogacan we update the official sansa e200/c200 bootloaders to not reboot into the OF on USB insert? this seems to cause a lot of confusion for users
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04:00
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04:06:09Lloreansaratoga: We'll update them when the release version has a USB mode.
04:06:29LloreanAt least, that's my understanding.
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04:09:44saratogaLlorean: do we have to use the same bootloaders for SVN and release installs?
04:11:06LloreanAt the moment there's not the infrastructure in RBUtil to install different bootloaders depending on the choice made, I think.
04:11:12saratogaah ok
04:11:20LloreanAnd we'll have USB enabled in the release, and new bootloaders, in what, a month and a half now?
04:11:26LloreanProbably not worth the effort.
04:12:12LloreanProbably about the time people should be looking at big patches they want to get into 3.3 actually, so there's plenty of time for testing before the freeze etc.
04:12:55LloreanAssuming we even have any "big" features still sitting around nearly done.
04:13:09saratogaI guess beast support, but who knows about that
04:13:52LloreanIsn't the big hurdle for the beast that we don't have an effective way to install in Windows?
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04:14:23LloreanOr rather, we don't have a non-Linux install method?
04:14:28*Llorean hasn't looked at it in a while
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04:16:25saratogai'm not sure, but i think the problem was getting the libusb licensing sorted out
04:17:05LloreanIt's LGPL right? Shouldn't be a problem?
04:18:45linuxstblibusb isn't the issue, it was the Microsoft MTP library.
04:18:47saratogai think the example code we used to call libusb was under ambigulous license or something like that
04:19:03linuxstbAnd the example code to use that MS lib...
04:19:05Lloreanlinuxstb: But that's an issue for Windows install only?
04:19:16linuxstbYes.
04:19:32*Llorean thinks that RBUtil support in Linux only is good enough for a release if such is necessary.
04:20:04LloreanI mean, it means for some people a LiveCD is necessary for the bootloader install, which is one-off anyway. Not such a huge deal?
04:20:05*linuxstb doesn't care about rbutil support - running an ipodpatcher-like application isn't hard...
04:20:24linuxstb(and only has to be done once)
04:21:00LloreanAn rbutil like app wouldn't be bad, but if we've got one of those for Windows, couldn't RBUtil just run it for you if you put it in the same folder?
04:21:06LloreanEr, an ipodpatcher like app
04:21:57saratogadon't we have people use libusb to do the e200R install?
04:22:06saratogawould the same trick not work here
04:22:15Lloreanthe e200R doesn't require MTP
04:22:57saratogai'm mixing up libusb and libmtp probably
04:23:48linuxstbThe complication is how WIndows handles USB drivers - you need a driver for each VID/PID combination. e200rpatcher works in manufacturing mode, so it doesn't hurt for a Windows user to install the libusb driver for those IDs - it doesn't interfere with normal operation.
04:24:38saratogahttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/GigabeatSPort#Things_to_do_before_supported_st
04:24:55wpyhlinuxstb: ipodpatcher has to be done once? well, I usually run it after every build (maybe about 20+ revs)... am I unneccessarily wasting my time? :p
04:25:43saratogayes it doesn't do anything after the first time
04:25:44linuxstbwpyh: Are you compiling ipodpatcher (and the bootloaders) yourself?
04:25:47*Llorean wonders when it was decided RBUtil support was non-essential
04:26:13LloreanI thought the whole point of releases was for the more mainstream users for which RBUtil was intended.
04:26:25linuxstbSo we drop the e200r as supported?
04:26:42LloreanThe e200r happened before we started up releases again.
04:26:46LloreanIt's sort of a grandfather clause.
04:26:47saratogai think its rbutil is required if feasible
04:26:49linuxstbBut yes, I recall it being discussed and agreed.
04:27:15wpyhlinuxstb: well, yes, I'm compiling everything by myself
04:27:41LloreanI don't see RBUtil as being "optional" for a target that's going to be added as a release target. Either it's impossible, in which case we bypass it, or we add it.
04:27:47linuxstbwpyh: Then you're helpfully testing bootloaders for us... But there's no real need to.
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04:28:04kugelLlorean: And I can't remember when it was decided to have rbutil support essential
04:28:31*linuxstb has always thought of rbutil as an optional part of Rockbox
04:28:52*kugel too
04:28:54Lloreanlinuxstb: Being a part of Rockbox is different from being a release version
04:29:01LloreanDidn't we discuss this before 3.0?
04:29:03linuxstbWhich implies targets don't need to be supported by it to be released.
04:29:05saratogathe beast is somewhat special in that the only people using it are probably already rockbox users
04:29:17saratogaits not liek the sansas where a lot of people buy the player then find rockbox
04:29:28Lloreansaratoga: Then it doesn't need to be supported or released if that's the case.
04:29:56Llorean"Supported" means it's ready for mainstream users. At this point, that means they can follow our "standard" install procedure - use RBUtil and let that handle it.
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04:30:30*kugel disagrees
04:30:37LloreanIf we want to have tiered levels of support, we should mark ones without RBUtil "beta" or something so people know in advance we're not offering them the full package.
04:30:37wpyhhm... ok... :p I haven't found major problems though, except for in-development ports (like sansa fuze) where I need to compile and install both the bootloader and the normal build otherwise rockbox couldn't be loaded at all
04:30:51kugelwhere the distinction to released then (if there's a distinction)?
04:31:05saratogai think the bootloader changes maybe once or twice a year, so theres probably never been anything for you to find problems in
04:31:33saratogawpyh: you don't need to recompile the sansa bootloader, and you probably shouldn't
04:32:03kugelI really wouldn't want rbutil support necessary to consider a target as completed
04:32:03Lloreanlinuxstb: If an automated installer can be done, why _shouldn't_ it be RBUtil, exactly? I mean, what's the point in not doing RBUtil support if it's possible? And if it's possible, what's the harm in waiting for it to be done before declaring it "supported"?
04:32:25Lloreankugel: Why not, exactly? If RBUtil support can be done, why not do it? If it can't be done, then it's not necessary for that target.
04:32:40LloreanSaying it's unnecessary is just creating an excuse for it not to have to be done ever.
04:32:53*scorche reminds people that we are still looking for topics to discuss during devcon...
04:32:57LloreanIt's like saying "I don't think plugin keymaps are necessary for a port to be supported."
04:32:59saratogathe problem with rbutil is that its c++ and thus a lot of us have no idea how to work on it, so we have to depend on a couple people to keep up with development
04:33:01kugelparticularly because that means the people working on a port need to get involved with a totally different part of rockbox (desktop app, other language, other philosophy)
04:33:12kugelthat way, rbutil will only block new ports
04:33:41Lloreankugel: To which I can respond to you what gets told to users all the time - languages can be learned.
04:33:57Lloreanespecially if having RBUtil call an external installer application is an option anyway.
04:33:59linuxstbLlorean: The target status page lists the criteria for release. I guess you don't agree with those.
04:34:02saratogagranted i only put about 30 minutes effort into it, but I still can't even manage to get rbutil to compile on my ubuntu machine
04:34:16kugelpeople that work on a port are the ones that care less about rbutil since they use rockbox for a long time, and are familiar with the non-rbutil installation procedudes (they wrote them!)
04:34:38Lloreanlinuxstb: I wasn't aware wiki pages were automatically difinitive.
04:34:41Lloreandefinitive
04:34:41kugelI think we wouldn't even consider AMS sansas for 3.3 if domonoky wasn't working rbutil anyway
04:34:59linuxstbLlorean: Then what is?
04:35:07Lloreankugel: AMS Sansas aren't done yet anyway. At least the clip isn't.
04:35:12kugelLlorean: the point is, people are required to learn a new language for rbutil support which they don't really care about anyway
04:35:17wpyhsaratoga: why shouldn't I? (because of risks of bricking the player?)
04:35:18Lloreanlinuxstb: Is something?
04:35:23*linuxstb goes to sleep
04:35:35Lloreankugel: If they don't care about it, why should they care about the word "supported"? It's just a word.
04:35:47Llorean"Supported" means something to our users now - it means the software is ready for them.
04:35:53LloreanWe've raised the bar, we should live up to it
04:35:56LloreanNot strive to lower it back down agian.
04:36:13LloreanPeople who are comfortable can use it with the console installers, etc, anyway.
04:36:20kugelit would be nice if you can put a quote which says rbutil is explicitely requiered
04:36:39LloreanWhy do I need a quote? It's my opinion, and i haven't denied that it's just my opinion.
04:36:47kugelwe've had a talk about this when the beast was first released for a day or two. without rbutil support.
04:36:50LloreanSince when do I need a quote to backup the fact that I have an opinion?
04:37:02LloreanThe beast isn't supported.
04:37:05kugelYou claim rbutil is required
04:37:32kugelI don't think it should be, I wouldn't want that
04:37:40Lloreankugel: Where, exactly, did I claim it's required?
04:38:11LloreanYou'll notice the use of phrases such as "we should" and "I don't see" and so on.
04:38:11saratogalooking at that wiki page,linuxstb and I wrote the section on what supported means :)
04:38:21scorchesheesh...this is only the second idea added to the ideas for discussion bit for devcon?
04:38:29Lloreansaratoga: So basically linuxstb justified his statements with his other statements?
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04:38:55saratogaLlorean: to be fair he added stuff to my original list which said that something was supported when you could download it and there was a manual
04:39:09kugelWe've raised the bar, we should live up to it...Not strive to lower it back down agian.
04:39:17Lloreansaratoga: Still, basically he suggested it was definitive when he's the one who wrote it there.
04:39:22kugel(that was what sounds like it was required to me)
04:39:29Lloreankugel: *should*
04:39:42LloreanThis may be an English/German thing again, but "should" doesn't mean "have to"
04:39:52kugelwell
04:40:06saratogawpyh: yeah bootloader installs on the AMS targets are pretty safe, but if something goes wrong theres no way to recover most of them, plus its pointless unless the bootloader is actually updated
04:40:07kugel"We've raised the bar...Not strive to lower it back down agian." is the same for me
04:40:18Lloreankugel: What?
04:40:27kugelwithout the should live up to it part
04:40:34LloreanYou can't choose to ignore words in a sentence and then say "oh, but this means what I thought you said"
04:41:04wpyhsaratoga: OK, I will only update the bootloader if it's updated again then. :)
04:41:51kugelthat part doesn't add or remove something to/of the meaning in the sense that "We've raised the bar" means rbutil is required
04:41:54kugelto me, at least
04:42:05LloreanWe did raise the bar.
04:42:17LloreanBut that alone doesn't mean anything but "we've raised the bar"
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04:53:43wpyhcould someone please close FS #9473? I opened it but to me it seems invalid.
04:54:52*wpyh has successfully compiled rbutil on linux, with qt 4.5
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05:11:16wpyhanyone care to review FS #9456?
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05:24:54LloreanJust to clarify for the record, since my opinion is apparently unclear
05:25:16Llorean1) I do not think we've agreed on anything already, which is why I asked when things were agreed on.
05:25:35Llorean2) I think that we've shown users a certain level of user experience with RButil, and that going forward we should show that same level of user experience for new "supported" targets
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05:30:34saratogaregarding rbutil support, maybe some standards to make it easier to port new targets to would be helpful
05:31:01saratogasomething like a standard form for tools like sansapatcher so that they can be quickly plugged into rbutil without someone needing to know much about how it actually works?
05:31:27LloreanMakes sense.
05:31:40saratogai don't know how feasible it is though
05:32:16LloreanOr even a standard way to add a new target that calls an external tool so that we have a makeshift solution (it could even download the latest external tool, if we don't mind downloading executables) until "real" support is added
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07:40:33tmztlinuxstb: saratoga: there's a native usb library for Vista and 2007 with similar functionality to libusb, unfortunately not for win xp
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08:37:02amiconnLlorean, saratoga: Iirc I installed rockbox on my beast from within windows
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08:42:17bubsyamiconn: is your beast tamed?
08:42:22bubsywhat's its name?
08:42:25bubsydoes it have fur?
08:42:31bubsydoes it have horns?
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12:52:43msihi there
12:53:18msiim using an ipod nano 3g - is there any build that works for it?
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12:55:04Unhelpfulno.
12:55:38msiare there any plans for its support?
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12:57:35Unhelpfulno. nobody has cracked the encryption on the firmware yet, we have no way to run any of our own code on it.
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13:11:29msiwhat does this apple firmware base on?
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13:16:09msiinteresting story about the firmware also called "pixoOS" - http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/08/16/BUGTG878AR1.DTL&type=printable
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13:25:46dendemeierRockbox currently doesn't run on the 2nd generation iPod nano. This is due in part to undocumented hardware, and a very nasty firmware encryption that we can not figure out.
13:26:05dendemeieryou suck Steve Jobs
13:26:07dendemeier:/
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16:12:52bluebrotherdomonoky: which version of Qt are you using? 4.4.3?
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16:17:21domonokybluebrother: 4.4.1 on windows.
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16:59:42bluebrotherdomonoky1: for some reason copying the vbs from the resource to the temp path seems to fail all the time, thus the call failing. Haven't figured why copying isn't working anymore. Interestingly it creates a temporary file with the contents of the vbs.
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18:15:13Segadudehey is there any hope for an iPod Touch version of rockbox?
18:15:49AlexPNot unless some one does the work
18:15:54Tornenot any time soon; the firmware is encrypted and the hardware is totally different to all the previous iPods
18:16:07AlexPIt'd probably be better as an application on the touch too
18:16:23AlexPTorne: I think the touch can be jailbroken though
18:16:39Segadudei c. Alexp: I think so too
18:16:47Tornethat doesn't necessarily give you the ability to reflash it with arbitrary stuff
18:16:54Torneit just means you can access some of the OS X-based OS
18:16:57AlexPTorne: I wouldn't reflash it
18:17:00Tornei'm not sure exactly, but still
18:17:08AlexPTorne: I'd run Rockbox as a pllication
18:17:11Torneyah.
18:17:15saratogahomeyou could run rockbox as an app on the touch but someone would have to write rockbox as an app first :)
18:17:15AlexP*application
18:17:19Torneso rockbox-as-app would have to happen first
18:17:22AlexPexactly
18:17:26Torneand then get ported to the iPhone
18:17:39Torneand then it'd still need jailbreaking because apple won't allow stuff that is intended to replace builtin apps
18:17:44AlexPyep
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18:18:59Segadudethey would have ti make a new GUI tho
18:19:02Segadude*to
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18:33:45amiconnHmm. Regarding the build problems of m68k-elf-gcc, there's a weird thing
18:34:01amiconnI can't even build it on my linux box anymore, but this used to work
18:34:54amiconnNow the question is whether this is due to some updated linux package, or due to some glitch in rockboxdev.sh (there were numerous changes since I last tried it on linux)
18:35:20bertrikI remember getting a problem with one of the crosscompilers, but it's a long time ago
18:38:50*amiconn suspects the latter, since the problem hits quite different systems
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18:55:19linuxstbamiconn: The problem seems to be the "-r" option added to "make".
18:56:35amiconnH,, what does that do?
18:56:44amiconn*Hmm,
18:56:46linuxstbDisables built-in rules.
18:56:50amiconnah
18:57:01linuxstbIt was needed because Apple added conflicting built-ins to their version of make.
18:57:01amiconnSo gcc 3.4.x needs them?
18:57:21amiconnDoes m68k-elf-gcc build on osx?
18:57:31linuxstbI'm just doing a clean compile now to confirm my guess.
18:57:51linuxstbBut "make" in the libiberty directory worked for me, but "make -r" gives the error.
18:58:27linuxstbamiconn: I recall various people testing that patch before it was committed, but my guess would be that no-one tried all the compilers...
18:58:51amiconnYeah, probably just the popular arm :\
18:59:35linuxstbYes, works fine when "-r" is removed.
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19:00:02amiconnDo you have access to an osx box?
19:00:46linuxstbYes, I'll try.
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19:08:09linuxstbamiconn: Compiling m68k on OSX fails with the same problem.
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19:10:02amiconnlinuxstb: With or without the -r ?
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19:10:46linuxstbWith the -r. You're right, I should test without...
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19:24:22linuxstbamiconn: Yes, m68k compiles fine without the -r. So that seems the fix.
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19:24:39*linuxstb will try the other two
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19:30:54amiconnlinuxstb: Maybe it depends on the exact osx version? Something with 10.4.x vs. 10.5.x?
19:30:56*linuxstb discovers that the forums allow a 200KB text file to be quoted as part of a message, but not uploaded as an attachment...
19:31:22linuxstbamiconn: I guess that's possible.
19:32:06linuxstbAh, sh fails as well. The problem seems to be compiling a ".m" file - I recall that Apple's makefile has a built-in for that extension.
19:32:18linuxstbI mean sh fails without -r.
19:32:45AlexPsh compiled OK for me on debian testing 64bit with -r I think
19:32:59AlexPI'll just check, but I'm pretty sure that only m68k failed
19:33:54AlexPyeah, seems to be there OK
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19:35:54amiconnHmm, http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi?view=rev&revision=20704
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19:36:29AlexPyes, it just seems it wasn't tested for m68k (or anything other than arm?)
19:36:49amiconnAlexP: All binutils and all other crosscompilers build with -r, just m68k-elf-gcc doesn't
19:37:05linuxstbThe ".m" file is in binutils, so maybe we can use "-r" for binutils, but not gcc.
19:37:13AlexPamiconn: I know - I mean that they may not have been tested, so that may just be chance
19:37:18amiconnThis is probably because gcc 3.4.x doesn't like -r. The others are 4.0.x or 4.1.x
19:37:49amiconn(that is how it behaves on cygwin and linux)
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19:47:10AlexPFor the firewire ipods, does inserting firewire reboot to the Apple OF? i.e. does it work the same as USB does (prior to Rockbox USB)?
19:47:27amiconnyes
19:48:48AlexPI'm wondering about the manual note for ipod3g,ipod4g,ipodcolor,ipodmini that says "Firewire detection is not supported in Rockbox at the moment. Please use USB only." I take it that this isn't true?
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19:49:26juane414hey all i'm new to rockbox is there a way to sync with windows media player?
19:49:55juane414anyone?
19:50:21AlexPPatience - 30 seconds isn't long to read the question, let alone type out an answer
19:50:48juane414sorry thought everyone was afk
19:50:48AlexPWith what player and what version of Rockbox?
19:50:59AlexPjuane414: After 30 seconds wait?
19:51:05juane414ipod video 60g gen5
19:51:14AlexPWhat version of Rockbox?
19:51:32juane414latest release
19:51:36juane4143.2 i believe
19:51:42AlexPCould you check?
19:51:51juane414yup its 3.2
19:51:55 Quit mirak ("Ex-Chat")
19:52:41AlexPThen that uses the apple firmware for USB
19:53:04juane414and that means it's not possible?
19:53:05AlexPSo wmp will treat it as a normal ipod
19:53:13juane414okay
19:53:46juane414well no big loss i haven't used itunes in ages anyway
19:53:54JdGordonamiconn: should reverting that -r commit fix my gcc compile problem?
19:53:57juane414been using sharepod
19:54:14AlexPJdGordon: only for m68k
19:54:20juane414thanks for answering my question alex
19:54:23JdGordonthat happens to be my problem :)
19:54:36AlexPJdGordon: reverting it will break it on macosx for the others
19:54:48linuxstbI think the fix is to only use -r for binutils.
19:55:10linuxstbi.e. revert that -r commit, and explicity add "-r" to the make line for binutils.
19:55:54linuxstbThe problem on OSX is only with .m files, which only exist in binutils.
19:56:22 Quit juane414 ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.10/2009042316]")
19:56:58JdGordon<1 min m68k gcc compile on my quad core :)
19:57:17JdGordonof course, thats with ccache from months ago, but sitll lightning fast :)
19:57:23JdGordonand yes, removing -r fixed it
19:58:15JdGordonBagder: you can add m68k back onto my build server
19:58:31Bagdercool
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20:00
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20:04:43Darren415What is the best video format for rockbox?
20:05:12Bagdermpeg2
20:05:36Darren415do you know of a converter thats free?
20:05:44Bagdermany, see the wiki page
20:06:42Darren415ty
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20:07:05*GodEater likes the easy questions
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20:11:14CIA-38New commit by 03dave (r20899): Revert r20704 and only use the -r option when compiling binutils. This is good enough to fix compilation of the toolchains on OSX, but doesn't break ...
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20:11:37*linuxstb was about to type something to say he's changed rockboxdev.sh, but CIA-38 beat him...
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20:15:20Darren415I'm not seeing anything about converters on the wiki
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20:15:34linuxstbDarren415: You want the PluginMpegplayer page
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20:18:50AlexPamiconn: I'm wondering about the manual note for ipod3g,ipod4g,ipodcolor,ipodmini that says "Firewire detection is not supported in Rockbox at the moment. Please use USB only." I take it that this isn't true?
20:19:37tomersDoes anybody know for I can publish my private git repository on a remote machine that I have an user account for, and which I can connect to using SSH?
20:21:23 Join domonoky [0] (n=Domonoky@g229175198.adsl.alicedsl.de)
20:22:09linuxstbAlexP: "svn blame" says you wrote that... Or did you just reformat?
20:22:18AlexPI just reformatted
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20:22:26Grahacktomers: read-only or read-write ?
20:22:49bluebrothertomers: yes you can. There's an interesting article here: http://scie.nti.st/2007/11/14/hosting-git-repositories-the-easy-and-secure-way
20:23:47linuxstbAlexP: Seems febs added it in r11887 (Jan 2007), so I'm guessing it's out of date. I recall amiconn working on firewire detection. But wait for him to confirm.
20:24:02Darren415Should I be able to play video on an ipod that shouldnt otherwise play video with rockbox?
20:24:33tomersGrahack: I have read-write access
20:24:36 Quit firedix ("Ex-Chat")
20:24:40AlexPlinuxstb: Yes, he said that it works just as USB does, so I'm (pretty damn) sure it is out-of-date :)
20:24:43linuxstbDarren415: Yes, Rockbox plays videos on ipods that Apple doesn't.
20:24:50tomersbluebrother: Thanks
20:24:58linuxstbDarren415: Which ipod do you have?
20:25:04Darren4151st gen nano
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20:25:23linuxstbDarren415: Then video should work well in Rockbox - because of the small screen.
20:25:45Darren415well I have a cable to hook it to my tv so I can download movies and watch them there instead of burning them.
20:26:00linuxstbRockbox doesn't support the TV-out.
20:26:13Darren415ok
20:26:21linuxstb(I don't even known if the Nano has one)
20:26:32Darren415I can play audio though the tv
20:27:25AlexPEr, but aren't you just using the headphone socket?
20:27:29Darren415no
20:27:47AlexPso how is it connedted?
20:28:11Darren415the Ipod connector thingy
20:28:20AlexPThat is just using a line out
20:28:26AlexPAnd is quite different to video
20:28:36Darren415ok
20:28:43AlexPAnyway, regardless of whether the nano has video out, Rockbox doesn't support it
20:29:00linuxstbBut even if the Nano had a TV out, the CPU in the Nano would never be able to fill a TV screen with video - it's far too slow.
20:29:04Darren415is there any plugins that do or is it completely unsupported?
20:29:07Grahacktomers: YOU have read-write access but do you need that others have? If yes, the link that bluebrother sent is great, if no, you can simply publish with http (To publish via HTTP section of http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/2007/09/how-to-publish-git-repository.html)
20:29:08gartraldoes rockbox support the video out on any target?
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20:29:34linuxstbgartral: There's some work-in-progress for the ipod video in a flyspray patch.
20:30:33*gartral wonders what it would take to get video out on the mr100s..
20:30:39AlexPDarren415: All plugins that we know of come with Rockbox. Besides, video out wouldn't be a plugin, it would be core capability. It isn't supported
20:30:42linuxstbDarren415: It's impossible - there is no tv-out hardware in the 1st gen Nano (I've just googled...)
20:30:56AlexPcd ..
20:31:02AlexPdamn
20:33:53Darren415ty
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20:35:40tomersGrahack: The remote server has no git installed. I am only able to transfer files to it, and I have my own ~/public_html directory, available at tomers/">http://myserver.com/~tomers/
20:37:30gevaertsI guess you don't need other to write to it, so http is probably good enough
20:37:39Grahacktomers: great, so everything you need is here: http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/2007/09/how-to-publish-git-repository.html, in the relevant section
20:38:13Grahackso you'll have full access with ssh:// and others read-only with http://
20:40:20tomersGrahack: Oh, I saw there 'chmod +x /git/.... ' and I thought it is now relevant for me. Now I get it - it means doing it on your development machine. I should have RTFM
20:43:39***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:45:24Grahackonly the section starting with "To publish via HTTP" is relevant for you.
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20:48:37evilwombatHello. Has anyone ever tried replacing an ajbrec's 2.5" hdd with a CF card and adapter?
20:48:49Grahacktomers: arf sorry, you're in the right section, you have to "chmod +x my_repo.git/hooks/post-update" on the server
20:49:29Grahacktomers: I'm not sure to understand your problem...
20:53:38CIA-38New commit by 03alex (r20900): Properly capitalise "Rockbox", and rewrite a couple of small sections. Some of this is taken from FS #9880 by Johannes Linke.
20:55:41 Join petur [50] (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur)
20:55:48gartralwould anyone be intrested in a minor keymap patch for solitaire?
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20:56:53AlexPdepends what it does :)
20:58:21gartralcauses solitaire to not jump to menu on power key press, and when the key was released
20:58:58AlexPIs it on FS?
20:59:01 Quit faemir (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:59:24gartralnot yet, i wanted to see if anyone was intrested, i'll upload now
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21:02:31*gartral spots he made a mistake
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21:10:26gartraland since i dont really know how most of the players respond, this is for sansas as of right now
21:10:47AlexPyou can check using the sim
21:11:06bluebrotherdomonoky: news on FS
21:11:15bluebrotherFS #10190: it is a Qt issue :(
21:11:39gartralAlexP: ide have to compile for every sim..
21:11:50AlexPgartral: yes, you would
21:12:06AlexPgartral: But if you want to do it properly...
21:12:15tomersGrahack: Thanks for the info. I'll look into it. I think there's no problem...
21:12:18 Quit tomers ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.10/2009042316]")
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21:13:18linuxstbgartral: Not every sim, just every keypad. e.g. you only need one ipod build.
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21:13:39domonokybluebrother: bad. that probably also affects other parts of rbutil (bootloaderinstallfile for example). We should build a new windows binary with a older Qt version i think.
21:14:26bluebrotherit won't affect bootloaderinstallfile as that doesn't use resources. I'll try to create a new binary with Qt 4.5.0 and check if the issue appears too.
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21:15:12gartrallinuxstb: yea, didnt think of that, speaking of, ever look into OVPsim?
21:15:33linuxstbNo, never heard of it...
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21:17:55linuxstbgartral: I doubt many people would want to invest time in using proprietory tools with Rockbox though.
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21:21:13domonokybluebrother: ah, i thought it affected all copies (as there are reported (unverfied) problems with bootloader install on mrobe100 and gigabeat).
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21:30:33bluebrotherwell at least from the tt bug I linked in the task it only affects when copying from resources. Maybe I should check the copying in the bootloader install too
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21:31:19froggyman#rockbox-community
21:31:26froggyman#rockbox-community
21:31:37bluebrotherfroggyman: it doesn't work this way.
21:31:43bertrikfroggyman, I think you mean /join #rockbox-community
21:31:46bluebrotheryou want to use /join at the beginning
21:32:18froggymanyeah i know, it tried copying and pasting it in but it just put it in the chat right away
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21:34:19froggymananyone know why the WPS themes from this site dont seem to be working properly? (linuxstb.cream.org/themes/index.php?model=ipodvideo64mb#ipod%20simple">http://linuxstb.cream.org/themes/index.php?model=ipodvideo64mb#ipod%20simple)
21:34:34AlexPBecause it is very old?
21:34:35*linuxstb wonders where froggyman got that URL from
21:34:56AlexPAnd also not the theme site?
21:35:28UbuntuxerHi, Please have a look at my patch. FS #10193 The patch adds a standart game menu to brickmania, pegbox, rockblox, spacerocks and jewels and slightly improve the usability of the games.
21:35:35froggymanno, the regular ones from the "current" theme site work, just not those
21:36:00AlexPyes, I know
21:36:07AlexPThat is not the theme site, and old
21:36:16AlexPfroggyman: Where did you find the URL for it?
21:36:18bluebrotherwell, then the theme is incompatible. You need to fix it
21:36:43froggymanalexP i got that after searching the forums a bit...
21:36:49Ubuntuxerkugel is right, that I had rather divide it into different patches, but I can't do it anymore
21:37:31AlexPhuh
21:38:01linuxstbUbuntuxer: It's hard for people to review such a patch, so it's less likely to get committed.
21:38:37*froggyman realizes that linuxstb took down the archived theme site
21:39:07linuxstbfroggyman: It was never "the archived theme site".
21:39:32linuxstbIt was just a test I shared temporarily, and forgot to remove.
21:39:53froggymanahh, but it was still a copy of it
21:39:53 Quit itcheg ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
21:40:02AlexPno it wasn't
21:40:48UbuntuxerI would be deeply grateful, if someone still review it.
21:41:34AlexPUbuntuxer: It'll be much more likely to be reviewed if you split it up
21:41:36linuxstbWhy "can't" it be devided into different patches?
21:42:41linuxstbUbuntuxer: Do your files have tabs in them? The alignment looks broken in the diff.
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21:43:31UbuntuxerActually not
21:43:36UbuntuxerI will review it
21:47:43UbuntuxerWhy do you think it looks broken? I used always four spaces.
21:48:32linuxstbI'm looking at the diff in firefox - I'm guessing it's using 8 spaces for tab characters.
21:49:24linuxstbWhich is why Rockbox source shouldn't have tab characters - use actual space characters.
21:50:56linuxstbUbuntuxer: Looking at pegbox for example, is there a reason to rename those functions to add pegbox_ to the start?
21:51:49preglowtabs ftw
21:51:55preglowif only people would use them properly
21:54:32UbuntuxerI thought problems occurs if two funtions have the same name.
21:55:07UbuntuxerI wanted to except that
21:57:18UbuntuxerIf you would like I will delete all this tiny non-functional changes.
21:57:29linuxstbUbuntuxer: Unless there's a function with the same name in the plugin-lib, it's not a problem.
21:58:08linuxstbUbuntuxer: From a quick look, your patch seems to do three things: 1) Cosmetic changes; 2) bugfixes; 3) new features. Split across many plugins...
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22:00:34Ubuntuxerok, what do you think about the new features?
22:02:36linuxstbI'm not sure what they are... But it's good to see someone working on plugins - they're generally abandoned after their initial development.
22:03:17evilwombatHey guys- is there any development at all happening on the old Archos targets?
22:03:53preglowwell, you could argue most non-target specific rockbox development is also archos development
22:04:06preglowanything in particular you're thinking about?
22:04:23evilwombatthis is true, but I meant things like the wav codec, any possible B/W or small-screen plugins, etc
22:05:15evilwombati rarely plug this thing into computer anymore (it lives in my car) and am thinking about updating the RB on it.. seeing what to expect, etc
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22:06:59Ubuntuxer@linuxstb: just test it please, you will notice immediately the small improvements.
22:07:19preglowevilwombat: i'd say that very few developers care about the archoses anymore
22:07:29preglowsome do use them, tho
22:07:38evilwombatpreglow, aah, I see... sadly this is the only rb device i own :( and I'm poor
22:08:04evilwombatpreglow, maybe you might know.. I have an arjrec 10GB, so it's got USB 1.1. I heard the bigger models used USB 2.0. Any ideas on how they got away with this?
22:08:14preglownone whatsoever
22:08:15evilwombatIs it just a different version of the same chip?
22:08:17evilwombataah
22:08:17preglowi've only ever seen archoses :>
22:08:21 Join mt [0] (n=MTee@41.233.144.53)
22:08:29preglowmy first rockbox device was an iriver h120
22:08:39evilwombatah, nice. that is a good one
22:08:42preglowindeed it is
22:09:00evilwombatif i can get usb 2.0, i'm considering bringing this thing up to full operation.. fixing the charge controller, etc
22:09:23evilwombatif the chip is pin-compatible, it can be exchanged..
22:09:39evilwombatbut i've no idea if the rest of the device is changed
22:10:49preglowwell, me neither :)
22:11:43evilwombatwho did the reverse-engineering on those devices? linus?
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22:12:10mtlinuxstb , saratoga : I was able to manually apply the necessary modifications to cook.c from the patch to convert it to fixed-point.
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22:12:33mtcook.c r 18079 not the old one form 2007
22:12:41UbuntuxerI've got a question about the function splash(). If I change the font size the text is cut off. Is it a known bug ? Could it be that it just occurs on my fuze?
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22:13:44UnhelpfulUbuntuxer: if you change the font size, you change the amount of space needed to display the text...
22:14:30 Quit arohtar (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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22:14:52Ubuntuxerbut the text box doesn't change size
22:15:06linuxstbmt: That's good news.
22:15:29linuxstbmt: Now add multi-channel support ;)
22:15:33n1sUbuntuxer: that sounds like a bug, likely introduced with recent changes to the splash functionn
22:16:02mtlinuxstb : sure, why not ? :)
22:16:04n1sUbuntuxer: pleas post a bug report in our tracker with details on how to reproduce it
22:16:18Ubuntuxerok
22:17:07preglowevilwombat: several people, i think
22:17:16preglowall of the swedes and more
22:17:37mtlinuxstb : I'd like to show you my modifications first though before making a patch.
22:17:53AlexPWasn't the h100 chosen in part becuase the hardware was reasonably documented as well?
22:17:59preglowaye
22:18:07preglowan approach we should have stuck to :P
22:18:40bluebrotherindeed :)
22:18:58linuxstbpreglow: Or an approach we wished the manufacturers had stuck to...
22:19:16mtlinuxstb : Should I drop lfg for the current patch, and use cook_random or rand(), or would it be better if this happens in another patch ?
22:19:47linuxstbmt: My personal preference is for lots of small patches. That way, the commit messages are more useful.
22:19:59preglowlinuxstb: a fair point..
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22:22:03mtlinuxstb : OK. not-so-few modifications had been done to cook.c though.
22:23:29linuxstbmt: BTW, don't forget copyright headers on new files - I added one to cook.h before committing your last patch.
22:23:38UbuntuxerFS #10197
22:23:39mtI'll do a patch that should change cookdata.h , create cook_fixpoint.h, cookdata_fixpoint.h and cook_fix_mdct.h in addition to modifying cook.c.
22:24:43mtlinuxstb : I was going to add one to cook.h, but I thought I didn't really do anything there, I just moved some declarations to a separate file.
22:25:15n1smt: just a thought, have you looked if you can use the mdct present in the rockbox codec lib, it could save you a lot of work if you could use it
22:27:00mtn1s : no I haven't. I'll look into that, but I think the fixed-point mdct produced by the patch is similar to that used in rockbox. (I remember saratoga saying something like that ? )
22:30:15evilwombatAlright, forgive the denseness. What the devil is rockblox1d?
22:30:31n1sone dimensional rockblox!
22:30:39evilwombatso it would appear
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22:31:17gevaertsit's for people who find rockblox too hard
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22:33:31mtn1s : yes, just looked into rockbox's mdct, it's the same are the one cook uses ( both imported from tremor ).
22:33:39mts/are/as
22:34:29n1smt: that's good news as our version is pretty optimized for our targets (and avoids duplication) :)
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22:46:17mtlinuxstb : Modifications to cook.c will have to be done all in one patch, to make it compile and work properly. (Most of the decoding-related functions will be changed )
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23:10:29froggymanwhat are the benefits of using CF vs. a hard drive in a iPod?
23:10:46gevaertsseek time and power usage
23:10:55JdGordonsolid state so you dont have to be so carefull with it
23:10:57gevaertsalso shock resistance
23:11:49LloreanBasically, if CF comes in an acceptable capacity and price for you, it's the better choice
23:12:00JdGordongevaerts: where's the best place to put a setting check to only charge or connect to usb?
23:12:52gevaertsJdGordon: usb_power_button() in firmware/usb.c
23:13:01froggymanLlorean: thanks
23:13:09JdGordonarg, why did my e200 with a brand new bootloader boot the OF when usb is connected?
23:13:28froggymanso would i be able to expect higher battery life with a CF card in then?
23:13:30gevaertsJdGordon: brand new bootloader from where?
23:13:38JdGordonsvn
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23:15:01gevaertsthat's weird
23:15:35gevaertsfroggyman: CF may be slower though. Still fast enough for normal use, but noticeable when copying files
23:16:21JdGordonnope, bootloader didnt update :(
23:16:21pixelmaI didn't think the new bootloaders were released, not sure though
23:16:37AlexPthey aren't
23:16:54AlexPThere are some on a flyspray task, but svn should do it too :)
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23:17:19froggymangevaerts: so what about battery life, is it like a huge drop (around 50%), minimal drop, or minimal increase?
23:17:56JdGordonwhy the heck isnt sansapatcher installing the new bootloader?
23:18:03gevaertsfroggyman: I haven't tested this, but as far as I know CF should be better
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23:23:08JdGordonarg, really.. wtf? I've removed the rbbl, sudo eject /dev/sdc, reconnected it, used sansapatcher to list the loaders and it shows none, reinstall the rbbl, eject again and its still showing the bl from nov 07
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23:27:09bertrikso, maybe you're just installing the old bootloader by accident
23:27:25JdGordonnope
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23:28:42mtlinuxstb, saratoga : New patch is in the task now :)
23:29:21JdGordonoh joy... the OF is now not loadable
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23:33:42linuxstbmt: Can you add some text to README.rockbox describing these changes? Are all the changes from patches to ffmpeg, or are some your work?
23:34:01linuxstbi.e. give links to where you got the patches from, and say which you applied.
23:34:39mtOK.
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23:40:35JdGordonlinuxstb: have you got any ideas why sansapatcher and rbutil both cant seem to do anything with the firware partition?
23:40:58JdGordonboth say successfully removed/installed the bootloader, but nothing gets changed
23:44:29linuxstbJdGordon: Sorry, no.
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23:46:47mtlinuxstb : is this enough ? (http://pastebin.com/d1fd86890)
23:48:12linuxstbmt: Looks good to me. Although you could say "An uncommitted patch from ffmpeg's mailing list..." (and you wrote maling instead of mailing)
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23:49:29mtlinuxstb : parts of the patch were committed. (" a partially committed patch ".. ? :) )
23:52:15mtlinuxstb : how about this - http://pastebin.com/d7c7fe433
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