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#rockbox log for 2009-05-14

00:02:41 Quit barrywardell (Remote closed the connection)
00:04:04 Quit robin0800 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:05:45 Quit krazykit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
00:10:05webguest13yay, I have some iriver h300 themes working!
00:10:28webguest13any idea where other than the wiki I can find 3.0 themes for the h300?
00:10:43JdGordon|how about trying the theme site?
00:10:59 Nick n17ikh| is now known as n17ikh (n=n17ikh@host-64-234-48-99.nctv.com)
00:11:00JdGordon|and why are you using 3.0?
00:11:29webguest13well, 3.2
00:11:41webguest13and the theme site has the same ones as the wiki
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00:20:44 Quit bluebrother ("Leaving")
00:27:12 Quit matsl (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:27:44LambdaCalculus37Well, there are certainly some differences between the beast and beatt nk.bin files.
00:28:04 Quit mirak ("Ex-Chat")
00:28:05LambdaCalculus37I was going over each with a hex editor and noticed a few different strings in each.
00:28:11*JdGordon| thinks a better abrev is going to eb needed :)
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00:45:30***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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02:45:33***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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02:52:29Insilic0Whoa
02:52:36Insilic0Lots of people here
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03:16:10DEBUGEOF from server (Success) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 545)
03:16:10***Cleanup
03:16:10***Cleanup
03:16:10***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:16:10***Exit
03:16:13***Started Dancer V4.16
03:16:13***Connected to irc.freenode.net on port 6667
03:16:13***Logfile for #rockbox started
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03:31:32JdGordonLlorean: you get round to testing the usb charge patch?
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03:39:38MU{lappy}AlexP: some devices use a non-standard audio plug that has extra signals. the beast has an adapter for the video out that plugs into the headphone jack.
03:39:48MU{lappy}evilnick: PING. ;)
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04:21:32LloreanJdGordon: Haven't yet, sorry.
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04:28:08Unhelpfulso, i've been doing more thinking about having AA loads happen in a thread. would we want to have that thread running all the time, waiting for a wakeup? or check to see if it's running when bufopen is called to load AA, and then start it if it's not?
04:28:37Unhelpfuland i guess we'd at least need to have a static allocation for that thread's stack, then?
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08:25:24animalstyleanyone know how to apply a patch
08:25:26animalstyle?
08:25:33animalstylelinkage?
08:25:41Bagderanimalstyle: the wiki does, google does...
08:26:01animalstylethnx
08:26:16Bagderhttp://www.rockbox.org/wiki/WorkingWithPatches
08:33:49Unhelpfulhuzzah, i have finally reproduced the stall on AA load, by putting a 2560x1600 wallpaper image on my e200 as an AA :)
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08:40:38Unhelpfulthere are several stalls, with playback resuming between them.
08:41:16GodEateramazing - who'd have thought using such a ridiculously large image would cause that ? :)
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08:42:10Unhelpfullooking at the buffer debug screen, alloc, real, and usefl just go up as buffering goes on. each pause freezes the debug screen, and when it resumes, the handle count jumps up by three, the track count by one, and the pcm buffer drops to zero and refills as the codec catches up
08:43:01Unhelpfulwell, the jpeg *decoder* yields per MCU, so, the actual size won't matter in terms of decoder work, although the details of how the jpeg was encoded can change the amount of work per MCU
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08:44:23GodEateris it managing to work with progressive jpegs ?
08:44:30GodEaterI seem to recall the jpeg viewer couldn't do those
08:45:05Unhelpfuli would suspect that it's the scaler that's killing it. the scaler yields once per row processed. the jpeg decoder should be passing 320px-wide rows to the scaler, i'm finding it a *little* hard to believe that processing one 320-wide row of input is taking too long.
08:46:06UnhelpfulGodEater: no, and i don't have any intention of it doing so. decoding a progressive jpeg would require getting the whole image into memory at once, and possibly storing the partial DCT blocks in memory (64 ints each) until all of their coefficients are filled in.
08:46:27*GodEater pretends he understood that, and agrees heartily.
08:48:42animalstyleanyone have a recompiled installer with the NSF playlist patch applied?
08:49:03cool_walking_progressive images are annoying anyway.
08:49:07GodEater"recompiled installer" ?
08:49:11Unhelpfuljpeg works by transforming 8x8 blocks of image data using the DCT into a set of coefficients representing their frequency components. the compressing comes from deciding how accurately to represent these components - some are given much more accurate representation than others, and many will end up being after quantization.
08:49:38animalstyleprobly a stupid question
08:49:48animalstyleim a chiptune dude - trying to get some NSF playback
08:50:15GodEateryou don't say for which target, or which patch number you're talking about
08:50:39Unhelpfulprogressive jpeg works by breaking up the image into several scans, with the "less important" high-frequency components saved for later scans. worse, coefficients can actually be split between scans, with some of their bits sent in one, and more in the next.
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08:51:28cool_walking_http://rockbox.org/wiki/SoundCodecs says NSF support is already in SVN.
08:51:35Unhelpfulto decode (fully) a block of the image, the decoder needs the coefficients, which in a progressive jpeg it can only get by decoding the whole file and storing these 8x8 blocks of ints in memory. :/
08:51:37GodEaterwhich is what I thought
08:52:02GodEaterUnhelpful: particularly unfeasable if the image is huge on a DAP right ?
08:52:49UnhelpfulGodEater: exactly.
08:53:08GodEaterso I completely support your decision ;)
08:54:26Unhelpfulhence the non-progressive, non-multiscan requirement - the decoder can be greatly simplified, and its memory requirements greatly reduced, if it never needs to store more than one block of DCT data, and never needs to store more than one row of fully decoded MCUs.
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08:55:31Unhelpfulthe memory requirements come to 512B for DCT data and IDCT scratch space, and 16*width bytes (* 3 on color targets) for decoded image data
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08:57:21Bagderhttp://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=21266.0 is a curious thread methinks
08:57:28Bagderabout that 24bit sound on X5 modded hw
08:59:07UnhelpfulBagder: i'd actually like to see wider output supported on targets where the DAC can do it, for other reasons - it makes for *much* less worry about clipping or aliasing in DSP if we can give our 16-bit audio data 8 bits of overhead.
08:59:39Unhelpfulthat aside, don't you want God to see your cooperation? ;)
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09:00:04BagderGod? isn't she eaten already? ;-)
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09:03:14Unhelpfulis there any left?
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09:12:20AlexPMU{lappy}: Yes, I know. I'm not sure what you were responding to though...
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09:15:23Unhelpfulhrm, interesting... adding some logf to the scaler confirms that the data it gets from the jpeg decoder is 320 wide. replacing the jpeg with a 320-wide bmp gets no skips.
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09:20:51Unhelpfulvery strange, making the yield in jpeg decode per-block rather than per-MCU gives no improvement. any idea how playback can be stalled by something that's yielding so much?
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09:34:57whoever_Hey together - I have a question. Is there a possability, how much a theme was downloaded? that would be interesting - and perhaps a motivation for some developers :) ?
09:35:24whoever_(the question was: is there a possability to see how much a theme was downloaded;)
09:35:30whoever_and sorry for my english - I'm German;)!
09:36:02B4gderno, there's currently no way to count them
09:36:20whoever_ok ;) - thank you
09:36:22GodEaterB4gder: our httpd doesn't have log files ?
09:36:46UnhelpfulGodEater: that doesn't mean *visitors* can count them :)
09:36:53GodEaterno I realise that
09:37:04GodEaterbut it's something we *could* discover
09:37:18B4gderwe could indeed
09:37:35B4gderMrSomeone is on it!
09:38:13B4gderI too would like that
09:38:20whoever_ok - that's good;) - I'm looking for that feature later;)!
09:39:48GodEaterB4gder: is the theme site php in svn too ?
09:39:57B4gderI think it is
09:40:15whoever_oh yeah - and congratulations for the new and easy (and nice to see;)) upload for the themes - it is much easier (and more fair) than before.
09:42:16whoever_so thank you for your help - but my lecture is finished;) - so I'll take a coffe..
09:42:17whoever_bye;)
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09:43:17GodEaterI'm consistently amazed by the people who come in here to "pass the time" when they're in lectures
09:43:25GodEaterwhy bother going to it in the first place if you're not going to listen ?
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09:54:33Unhelpfulwell, that's useful information - the image loads happen load_image in buffering.c, but are done from audio_thread in playback.c :D
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10:00:26linuxstbHuh?
10:01:28linuxstbSo what else is running in audio_thread?
10:04:16Unhelpfulno idea, but when deprioritizing the buffering thread around the actual image load changed nothing, i ran the sim under gdb and broke at load_image to do a backtrace :)
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10:19:52Unhelpfulerm, is audio_thread also the process that's filling the pcm buffer? :/
10:20:09linuxstbI think that's the codec thread.
10:21:32Unhelpfuli'm dropping priority to PRIORITY_BACKGROUND around the actual image load... it doesn't seem to change anything.
10:22:48*GodEater thinks about setting up incron to automatically unzip a fresh rockbox.zip to his attached player when a new one is detected.
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10:47:32Unhelpfulso, this image load is taking about 6s. the apparent duration of the playback stall is about 4s (i had to count for that one). the jpeg decoder should be yielding 16000 times during the decode, and the scaler should be yielding 200 times (per input line of the pre-scaled 320x200 decoder output)
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10:50:20Unhelpfulsomehow i think adding more yields is not going to fix anything... either some other thread is being starved despite being given every opportunity to run, or the problem is in audio_thread itself, and the stalling is due to it taking too long to get to whatever it should do next
10:50:39Unhelpful...or the holding of llist_mutex for 6s while the image loads is the problem... i suppose it might be.
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10:51:32linuxstbWhat's "llist_mutex" ?
10:51:41kugelUnhelpful: is backlight fading working while this stalling?
10:51:47linuxstbThe (compressed audio) buffers?
10:52:09kugelif yes, then yielding is not the problem
10:52:48Unhelpfullinuxstb: i believe so - those are also bufopen'd, right?
10:53:38linuxstbI've no idea - I don't know the details of the buffering code.
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11:01:56Unhelpfulit looks like that happens in the same function that loads the AA, if i'm understanding properly: tracks[track_widx].audio_hid = bufopen(track_id3->path, file_offset, type); is in audio_finish_load_track a bit after the album art and codec loads
11:03:11Unhelpfuli can't say this makes any real sense, because it seems as though the buffering thread loads the track metadata, then the audio thread loads the AA, then the codec, then the audio file itself into the buffer
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11:11:37Unhelpfulif i'm understanding this correctly, though, the buffering thread is responsible for loading the audio file data, so it does seem as if the audio thread could load the next image before the first track's audio data is loaded...
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11:37:01DBUGEnqueued KICK CIA-38
11:37:01CIA-38New commit by 03funman (r20929): Sansa AMS i2c : fix 2 problems identified by Jack Halpin & Bertrik Sikken ...
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11:46:54Unhelpfuli don't entirely understand how the actual file load happens, but i'm beginning to suspect that the true cause of the problem is contention over llist_mutex... i'll try to find time tonight to look into how image loads can proceed without holding it.
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12:00:50funmanis there a reason why http://daniel.haxx.se/sansa/mi4code.html is not part of rockbox?
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12:06:02GodEateryes
12:06:07GodEaterbecause the author is anonymous
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12:26:01pyro_maniac1funman: did you tried to load the of via bootloader on the yh-920?
12:26:26funmanyes, i added a comment on the flyspray task this morning
12:26:49funmanstorage init works with a (big) delay in SET_REG macro, but rockbox loading never ends (much too slow?)
12:27:22pyro_maniac1i've seen it
12:27:34pyro_maniac1but did you tried the OF too?
12:27:41funmanloading OF is equally slow (perhaps more since the of is bigger)
12:27:53pyro_maniac1ok
12:28:17pyro_maniac1on mine came a errormessage for an corrupt OF
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12:36:48kugelfunman: is it possible that the ide clock damanged my clip?
12:39:18funmanseriously, no idea. I more think that it would not function normally, but function right once the clock is set into a "legal" setting
12:39:26funmanalso nothing says 90MHz is not "legal"
12:40:43kugelmaybe ams says it :)
12:40:43soapgevaerts, those Samsung PP5020 based players supported USB host in the OF, IIRC.
12:40:56kugelyes
12:41:22soapif one /really/ cared about PP502x USB host that OF might be a place to look.
12:41:38funmanpyro_maniac1: how did you get this msg ? I couldn't get FAT partition mounted without changing SET_REG ..
12:41:42linuxstbfunman: Re-implementations of the encryption parts of mi4code are in tools/scramble, and the decryption is in bootloader/main-pp.c So we do sort of have it...
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12:42:52pyro_maniac1funman: i only pushed the button for OF on boot. nothing special really
12:43:13pyro_maniac1funman: did you see the screen errors in the top?
12:43:40funmanyes, and I am gonna look the new patch to see if i can fix that
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13:04:14gevaertssoap: we'd start from the assumption that it's the same as in the imx series I guess
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13:04:52soapgevaerts, no skin off my back either way. Just brought it up because of your forum post on the subject...
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13:27:40_fmlHello. I'm having trouble implementing the feature from FS #10181. I'm trying this for the e200 sim. For some reason, HAVE_RADIO_REGION is not defined in radio.c. config.h and tuner.h are included there. What could be the trouble?
13:28:44gevaertssoap: as far as I'm concerned the most important thing is that this proves that PP does host. The rest is details :)
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14:19:30pyro_maniac1soap: i only remember, that the yh-925 can host usb. do you mean that?
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17:03:15wpyhWould someone please take a look at FS #9456?
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17:04:06wpyhIt's a patch to change the behaviour of Repeat and Shuffle settings
17:04:35CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
17:04:35*LambdaCalculus37 goes to look
17:04:47LloreanI don't understand why it's a good idea to remove functionality? You assume people don't want to shuffle once, then listen to the same order over and over.
17:04:54LloreanBut some people *do* want to listen in order once, then shuffle.
17:05:22 Quit Zagor ("Don't panic")
17:05:55wpyhWell, I think most prople who shuffle would want to listen to a different order every time
17:06:12LloreanSo we should remove a feature we already have, that some people use, because you think it's simply rarely used?
17:06:43LloreanThere's no justification in your patch for why an existing feature should be removed beyond "I think it's rarely used."
17:07:07wpyhNo, because the alternative is much simpler
17:07:18wpyh(not just because it's rarely used)
17:07:51LloreanThe alternative of having less options is simpler, sure
17:08:02LloreanBut that justification could be a reason to strip 90% of Rockbox
17:08:29preglowlet's go and do that
17:08:42wpyhYes, it could be. However, I'm not volunteering to strip the 89% :P
17:08:56*wpyh expects huge "delete-all" patches from preglow soon
17:08:58wpyh:p
17:09:06preglowoh, you can expect some of the codecs to be retained
17:09:46wpyhhm... codecs are important :)
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17:10:27LloreanIt seems the "problem" you're trying to address is that if Shuffle is On, you feel that the playlist should reshuffle on every repeat even if repeat is not set to "shuffle"
17:10:40LloreanThis can probably at least be argued. Why didn't you just add that without removing other functionality?
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17:14:04wpyh1. Hm... it's not a "problem" actually, but something that can be made simpler. With my patch, if Shuffle=Yes and Repeat=All, then Rockbox will always reshuffle. It will not reshuffle if Repeat is not "All".
17:14:04wpyh2. I don't quite understand what you mean by "add that without removing other functionality". What are you referring to?
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17:15:46LloreanBeing able to play in order once, and then shuffle.
17:16:02LloreanThe "Repeat: Shuffle" option allows ordered play to be followed by a reshuffling of the list after.
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17:18:37wpyhYes, I'm aware of that. What I want is to be able to randomly play all the music in my playlist, which is what most people want anyway. I don't want to play in order once then shuffle. The combination of Shuffle:Yes and Repeat:Shuffle can be reduced.
17:18:47LloreanI never said you want to.
17:19:00LloreanI said you're taking that option away from other people, for no reason other than "I don't think enough people want to do it."
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17:20:03wpyhI never said you said I want to. (well, this recursion could actually go on forever)
17:20:25wpyhAnyway, no, "I don't think enough people want to do it." is not my main reason, and certainly not my only reason
17:20:33LloreanIt's the reason you've mentioned several times
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17:21:00LloreanYour patch doesn't add anything. It simply takes away existing functionality in the name of "simplicity" which is subjective anyway.
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17:22:49wpyhYes, you're right. It aims to simplify the shuffle/repeat settings by removing one option. And pedantically I agree with you that simplicity is subjective. (which, btw, "desirable" is subjective too)
17:23:16LloreanWhere did I say anything about something being desirable?
17:23:41LloreanAll I've said is that your patch reduces _existing_ functionality because of your subjective opinion.
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17:24:18LloreanYou're taking away an option that has already been made use of by our userbase for no significant other reason than you think existing use of it is less important than a minor simplification.
17:25:43wpyhI didn't say that you said anything about something being desirable.
17:25:44wpyhYes, my patch reduces existing functionality based on my subjective opinion. (I have to say that all opinions are subjective, so it's the same as saying "black thinkpad").
17:25:56LloreanAnother *significant* advantage of the existing setup is that you can have "Repeat: Shuffle" and "Shuffle: No" and you can listen to things like audiobooks in order (simply stopping them when they end) and use "Insert Shuffled" plus "Repeat: Shuffle" to result in (effectively) being able to shuffle music, and not shuffle spoken word, without having to ever change settings
17:26:46wpyhUh... I need some time to digest that last part. Forgive me for being such a simpleton.
17:27:12LloreanBasically, "Repeat: Shuffle" and "Shuffle: No" has more uses than you seem to think it does.
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17:28:46LloreanYour change would force some users to continually need to toggle the shuffle setting on and off where it was previously possible to just set the settings as described and leave it.
17:28:53preglowbaseline: never try to remove functionality that isn't simply braindead
17:29:21preglowthis is why i really think people shouldn't be allowed to driveby commit functionality changes, once it's in, you're going to have hell trying to take it out
17:30:00wpyhHm... does "Insert Shuffled" delete the current playlist or ...?
17:30:01wpyhIn your example, the audiobooks will also be shuffled as soon as we reach the end of the current playlist, wouldn't it?
17:30:13Lloreanwpyh: No, "Insert Shuffled" inserts things shuffled into the current playlist.
17:30:31wpyhpreglow: ok, that's better.
17:30:43LloreanAnd yes, the audiobook will be, but you need to find new content after the audiobook is done *anyway* so the fact that it repeats is irrelevant.
17:31:53wpyhAnd am I right to say that in your stated example, the user will be listening to audiobooks intermixed with music after the end of the playlist has been reached?
17:32:19Lloreanpreglow: It would be nice to have a discussion procedure for adding / modifying features.
17:32:39Lloreanwpyh: In the given example the user will either be listening to an audiobook OR music, not both at the same time.
17:33:27preglowjust posting on the ml would be fine, really
17:33:37Lloreanwpyh: What I've described to you is how I use my player, on a day to day basis. I don't know if anyone else does, but my settings are almost permanently "Repeat: Shuffle" and "Shuffle: No" because it allows me not to need to tweak either of those regularly depending on whether I want to listen to books or music
17:33:37preglowsome do, but i have seen plenty of feature commits with no discussion
17:34:01Lloreanpreglow: Yeah, I feel rather strongly that the ML is underutilized for discussing potential feature commits, and it's really the best use for it
17:34:16preglowi don't much like mls, but it is the best place to discuss such things
17:34:22LloreanIt's something you don't have to search through logs or anything for.
17:34:38LloreanBy "process" I really just meant "pick a number of days it should be on the ML minimum before it's committed"
17:34:39*preglow never uses repeat or shuffle for anythiung
17:34:39wpyhgood idea. I was thinking about using the wiki (similar to the menu layout discussion) but it will probably get nowhere as well
17:35:19wpyhLlorean: do you remove the audiobooks from your playlist before you "insert shuffled" the music?
17:35:44Lloreanwpyh: I press stop at the end of the audiobook
17:35:52LloreanOr, when I turn on the player, audio is already stopped
17:36:05LloreanIt means, in a large part, not having to be concerned at all about what the settings are when I turn on the player
17:37:07wpyhok, so the music is inserted in random order after the audiobook, am I right?
17:37:39LloreanWhat do you mean "after"?
17:37:54Lloreanthe music is never in the same playlist as the audiobook
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17:39:42wpyhhm... you said "... listen to ... audiobooks in order ... use insert shuffled plus repeat:shuffle"
17:40:00wpyh(Should I post the exact quote?)
17:40:27LloreanDid you miss the part where I said (simply stopping them when they end)?
17:40:38wpyhWhat I get from your example is that:
17:40:41wpyh1. you listen to an audiobook
17:40:41wpyh2. it ends/you stop it
17:40:41wpyh3. you "insert shuffled" music
17:40:41DBUGEnqueued KICK wpyh
17:40:41wpyh4. you continue to listen to music
17:40:48wpyhno, I didn't miss that
17:40:53Llorean2. it ends and I stop it
17:41:01wpyhmaybe I misunderstood it...
17:41:07LloreanWhen music is stopped, if you insert, it creates a new playlist.
17:41:12LloreanIt does not preserve the contents of the old one.
17:41:21wpyhok, then it stays in the playlist, right?
17:41:22wpyhah, ok
17:41:26 Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net)
17:41:45LloreanThis is a significant difference between "stop" and "pause"
17:41:46wpyhnow I understand
17:43:45wpyhok
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17:44:04wpyhsince I use an ipod, I never did see much of a difference
17:44:39wpyhI only know that I need to press Play long enough for the music to pause, then stop, then the unit to power off :p
17:45:04 Quit advcomp2019 (Nick collision from services.)
17:45:04LloreanThis is the problem with suggesting the removal of functionality - you really ought to try to look at everything that can be done with it first.
17:45:06 Nick advcomp2019_ is now known as advcomp2019 (n=advcomp2@unaffiliated/advcomp2019)
17:46:45wpyhyes, I didn't realize some people are combining functionalities to achieve what they want
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17:49:40wpyhso, I wonder what will happen to FS #9456?
17:50:27LloreanWell, you could attempt to fix it so that it doesn't remove significant functionality.
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17:50:54LloreanIf you simply changed it so that "Repeat: All" plus "Shuffle: Yes" results in a reshuffling every time, but leave out the removal of "Repeat: Shuffle" its much more reasonable
17:51:16wpyhhmm... I'll try that suggestion. thanks!
17:51:27LloreanEspecially since, "Shuffle everything, but don't reshuffle on repeat" can be accomplished by Shuffle: No, Repeat: All, and insert shuffled under those circumstances, so no existing functionality is loss
17:51:29Lloreanlost
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18:30:26jspeterHello? Does anyone here know of an "eraser" tool for a Sansa C250?
18:30:42evilnick_7what are you trying to do?
18:31:18jspeterI have a C250 that's a bit bricked. I can navigate menus and all, but I think its data section is broken.
18:32:05linuxstbHave you tried to reformat the main data partition?
18:32:57LambdaCalculus37jspeter: We have a tool for just such a purpose: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SansaC200Erase
18:33:12jspeterI've hit the "format" option in the menu. That takes a while and then turns off. I can't connect it via USB except in recover mode. I found this: http://www.anythingbutipod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35658 and thought it could help
18:33:47jspeterthanks. I'll try that
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18:40:14jspeter(Wow! This format takes a while!)
18:40:48LambdaCalculus37jspeter: Give it time. It'll get done soon enough.
18:41:03jspeter98464 kB left
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18:52:21jspeterHeh... I misread the directions as stating that this could take 45 /seconds/ or more...
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18:56:40jspeter(erase done. doing recover...)
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19:00:39jspeterDrat! Now it no longer shows up in lsusb
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19:12:35jspeterSo, after having performed the c250erase procedure, I now can no longer connect via USB, and the device appears to always come up in "manufacturing" mode (blue ring, no LCD). Any thoughts?
19:12:48 Quit nibbler (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:13:15krazykitjspeter, you need to recover the device as per the manufacturing mode instructions
19:13:25jspeterCan't... no USB
19:13:44jspetere200tool can't find it
19:14:48gevaertsjspeter: my bet is that you aren't running lsusb as root
19:15:24jspeterI didn't used to have to. I just did "sudo lsusb" and still couldn't see it
19:15:52gevaertsanyway, try again (unplug, power off, the lot). It's a bit fiddly now and then
19:16:32***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:16:52jspeterUnplugged, powered off, held middle button, re-plugged. Still no joy.
19:17:09jspeterI think it's way dead, now
19:17:17jspeternot just mostly dead...
19:19:06NHeal(timeout) card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
19:19:26LambdaCalculus37jspeter: Are you sure it's not just pining for the fjords? :P
19:19:38jspeterhar
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19:19:54jspeterit's pining to be drop-kicked... at least that's MY take on it
19:20:14LambdaCalculus37Did you follow the rest of the instructions on the page?
19:20:20jspetercouldn't
19:20:31jspetergot to the part where I hit a key and it shuts down
19:20:40jspeternow, I can't unbrick
19:26:08jspeterI think it's reacehd the clearing at the end of the path... anybody want this for parts (cable, battery, back cover?)
19:26:54jspeter(Sansa C250, in case you're new, here)
19:28:52linuxstbLambdaCalculus37: Did you ever get beastpatcher compiling on OS X?
19:29:27gevaertsjspeter: try pluging it in without the middle button
19:29:36evilnick_7jspeter: It's rare that a player is totally unrecoverable. Perhaps you could ask gevaerts to help when he's next around, as he's got a lot of experience... And here he is!
19:30:40CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
19:30:40*gevaerts has never seen his c250 not come back after that
19:32:02jspeterPlugging in without middle button has a similar effect. It at least recognizes that it has been plugged in, as it lights up the blue... just not the LCD.
19:32:21gevaertsthe LCD won't light up at this stage, that's normal
19:32:38jspeterdmesg doesn't flinch, and lsusb shows no new devices
19:32:53gevaertshave you tried different ports on the PC?
19:32:57jspeter...
19:34:16jspeterJust tried all of them (even the hub)
19:34:49LambdaCalculus37linuxstb: No, still not much luck.
19:35:23gevaertsmaybe a stupid question, but have you tried repluging the cable on the sansa side?
19:35:34jspetercan try again...
19:36:03jspeterblew in connectors, too... no luck
19:36:08LambdaCalculus37Currently I'm using a Debian VM to build and test beastpatcher, but I'm probably doing something wrong with the code to get it to build in OS X.
19:36:58gevaertshm, I've not seen that sort of behaviour before...
19:37:16jspeterIt was acting really strange before the wipe, anyhow
19:37:33jspeterIt said its memory available was something like 30000000 kB
19:38:09gevaertsif this was an e200 I'd suggest reseating the memory board, but as far as I know the c200 doesn't have problems there
19:38:46gevaertsReporting weird amounts of free space can be caused by simple filesystem corruption, so that doesn't prove much
19:39:06jspeterI'm wondering if it didn't just have a wire loose, or something
19:39:29gevaertsyou could try opening it and having a look
19:39:57jspeterI suppose. I see two small philips-head screws... are those all?
19:40:45gevaertsI'm not sure
19:41:13jspeterHere's from my e-mail to sandisk, long ago:
19:41:13jspeterSettings->SystemInfo reports the Version
19:41:13jspeteras "01.00.00A", Memory as "838860801 MB", Free as "-1056395069 MB" and Songs
19:41:13DBUGEnqueued KICK jspeter
19:41:13jspeteras "0".
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19:41:20jspeteroops
19:41:40jspeterbut, yeah... that could have been the FS
19:42:23gevaertsthe internal format function doesn't handle this case well at all. It just believes those numbers, so it gets stuck
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19:43:08jspeterit definitely got stuck
19:43:17juane414has anyone ever used %px when making a .wps?
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19:49:54AlexPjuane414: Not personally, but what is the question?
19:50:07juane414wondering how it works with conditionals
19:50:16AlexPsame as all the others
19:50:31AlexP%?px<a|b|c|d|e>
19:50:40AlexPreplace a b c d e etc with images
19:50:45juane414i'm wanting to have it display a certain image when the progress is %25
19:51:12AlexPI don't know, but I'm guessing that it'll split the number of conditions you give
19:51:32AlexPSo In my example a is shown from 0-20%, b 20-40% c 40-60% etc
19:53:02juane414interesting
19:53:13juane414i'll give that one a shot and see what happens
19:53:22AlexPjuane414: I haven't tested this, it is just what I imagine will happen
19:53:28juane414ok
19:53:34juane414i'm trying another idea as well
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19:59:05juane414well i'm not getting errors with my idea but it's not doing what i wanted either...
19:59:29juane414%?px<%px25%xdc%xdd| > thats what i have
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20:00:53pixelmawhat's the %px25 doing there?
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20:01:08juane414supposed to be 25% of the song
20:02:01AlexPjuane414: It doesn't work like that
20:02:09AlexPjuane414: see my example
20:02:23juane414yea i'm trying that one now
20:03:03pixelmaI used it, it divides as AlexP described (in my case it was %?px<what happens during the first half of the song|what happens during the second half>, you can use more if you want smaller steps
20:04:29juane414i'm trying that now
20:04:35juane414let you know in a sec if it works
20:05:44juane414well it seems to be working but my images aren't aligned properly
20:06:01juane414the image loads from the top left corner right?
20:06:06 Quit CaptainKwel ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
20:06:12AlexPjuane414: of the viewport, yes
20:06:40juane414i suppose i need to establish a viewport first...
20:06:45 Quit simjoko ("When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.0 Virgo http://www.kvirc.net")
20:07:24AlexPIf you don't, it'll be from the top left
20:08:54CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
20:08:54*gevaerts wants multiple progress bars in his wps...
20:09:12AlexPHow big is the wps image buffer?
20:09:27juane414mmm not sure how to tell
20:09:34AlexPjuane414: I know :)
20:09:43AlexPjuane414: It is in the code :)
20:10:16 Nick fxb__ is now known as fxb (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net)
20:11:55*Bagder added an "Ideas for hacking" section to the devcon wiki page
20:13:12pixelmagevaerts: you can have up to three (IIRC), two are definitely possible and I'm using it (not displayed at the same time)
20:13:37gevaertspixelma: I'd want them at the same time...
20:13:47pixelmashould work too
20:14:17pixelmathough I can't confirm that because I never tried
20:14:29JdGordon|yes, currently you can have up to 3 on the screen at a time... as long as each are in different viewports
20:14:39JdGordon|sorry, i mean 3 per .wps
20:14:50gevaertsah ok. I tried them in the same viewport.
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20:16:57pixelmagevaerts: though I'm curious what you would use it for
20:17:24gevaertspixelma: don't ask :)
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20:17:58JdGordon|it could be fun having two, if they could go right->left also
20:19:14*gevaerts also wants to use %px lists to change viewport sizes
20:19:49JdGordon|to crop an image being drawn?
20:20:10gevaertsthat, or to move the AA around
20:20:12pixelmaJdGordon|: starting right? I recently wondered how a "vanishing" progressbar could look
20:21:25pixelmaleft to right but "filled" first
20:22:06pixelmagevaerts: use %px with conditional viewports, should work
20:22:28CIA-38New commit by 03alle (r20930): Set the font to FONT_UI after exiting a plugin (FS #10132). This makes the core Rockbox more like a sand box for plugins (less to care about in ...
20:22:59gevaertspixelma: well, there is this limitation on the number of viewports :)
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20:23:51pixelmaif you don't tell me what you want to use it for ;)
20:24:42gevaertsactually, I'm mostly just speculating about possibilities
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20:27:56*pixelma would be curious about inverted viewports on monochrome
20:29:52*gevaerts seems to be good at finding ways to show the compiled-in wps
20:31:10pixelmacongrats
20:32:01*AlexP finds where to make the wps image buffer enormous :)
20:32:15gevaertsMy main problem is that wps syntax is a one-pass thing, so you can't use things like %px where it expects a number. I'm used to programming languages... :)
20:34:04JdGordon|pixelma: (slow reply), that, but also being able to have it right to left filling left
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20:34:56JdGordon|gevaerts: yeah, that is crazy talk
20:36:33gevaertsit would be wonderfully flexible, but probably also wonderfully complex to implement
20:37:08JdGordon|maybe.... maybe not
20:37:21gevaertsHow many images can a bitmap strip have?
20:37:22JdGordon|conditionals partially sort of does this
20:37:31JdGordon|a->z i think?
20:37:34pixelma52
20:37:41AlexPa-z, A-Z
20:39:21AlexPI'd like volume to be able to to a bitmap reveal, like a progress bar can
20:39:38AlexP*third to is a do
20:39:59JdGordon|well get to it :)
20:40:08AlexPJdGordon|: Thanks :)
20:40:23AlexPI was just joining in the general this would be good conversation :)
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20:57:16*gevaerts wants JdGordon's wps limit removal patch...
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20:57:59*JdGordon| too
21:00
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21:16:36***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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21:18:35Llor_Phonealexp: progressive volume would be neat. One revealing bmp for mute until 0db, but a conditional for the warning img still
21:19:17gevaertspixelma: my attempt at a vanishing progressbar : gevaerts/test.zip">http://www.evonet.be/~gevaerts/test.zip
21:19:42gevaerts(people who dislike dirty hacks : don't look)
21:19:46AlexPLlor_Phone: Yep :) I've just been trying to make a revelaing volume with conditionals, but I'm many times too big for the image buffer if I want any sort of resolution
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21:20:46Llor_PhoneAlexp: I prefer numeric volume anyway, but it would be nice.
21:20:55pixelmagevaerts: I'm careful... is it a patch or something else? ;)
21:21:12gevaertspixelma: just a standard wps
21:21:36gevaertsstandard as in the .wps file and accompanying bmps
21:21:40pixelmaa standard WPS, text only?
21:22:09pixelmawhat target is it for then (or minimum requirements for display size)
21:22:31AlexPLlor_Phone: I was trying to make a WPS that replaced the progress bar with a volume one (and the time elapsed with numeric volume) when the volume was changing, but it just isn't doable within the image size limits
21:22:37*linuxstb reads http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=21652.0 and google translate helpfully translates both words to "accessibility"
21:22:37gevaertsah yes, it's for 240x320. I've only tried it in the simulator yet though
21:23:18*JdGordon| wonders hows something can be both a dirty hack and follow the standard?
21:23:29gevaertsJdGordon|: just look at it :)
21:23:44AlexPlinuxstb: I don't know, but I object to the idea that voicing is just for "handicapped" people
21:23:44Llor_Phonelinuxstb: babelfish said our word is "accessibility" and the other is something like barrirer removal
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21:24:13linuxstbLlor_Phone: That sounds just wrong though...
21:24:21linuxstbAlexP: What is it in English?
21:24:42AlexPI don't speak any German, but I think it important that if there are two suitable words where one suggests it is for blind people, then we should have the other as it is just voicing, which everyone can use
21:24:45linuxstbAlexP: It's "Accessibility"....
21:24:47Llor_PhoneI assume its an issue of literal translation vs common use
21:24:54AlexPlinuxstb: Accessibility I guess
21:24:55gevaertsJdGordon|: in short, it has 4 %px conditionals with 100 cases each
21:25:01pixelmalinuxstb: reminds me that I wanted to comment there, Barrierefreiheit is used for "accessibility", more understandable if you think of wheel chairs and buildings
21:25:11Llor_Phonealexp: well neither means voicing...
21:25:16AlexPLlor_Phone: true
21:25:26Llor_PhoneWe could fix it that way.
21:25:30AlexPAnyway, I'm not going to argue about a language I don't speak :)
21:25:32linuxstbpixelma: That sounds closer to the English meaning of "accessibility".
21:25:33 Quit JdGordon| ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
21:25:35Llor_PhoneName it "voice"
21:25:41pixelmathe German Windows calls its voice options "Barrierefreiheit", IIRC
21:25:46HorschtAlexP, "Zugänglich" has a little different meaning in the german language.
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21:25:55linuxstbBut I agree with AlexP that "accessibility" isn't the best description.
21:25:57pixelmaLlor_Phone: that's what I thought too
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21:26:14Horschtusualy barrierefreiheit is used for these features that are (primarily) used for handicaped people
21:26:19pixelmajust wanted to chack if there is something else than voice in the tab
21:26:33pixelmaor check
21:26:38AlexPI think it shouldn't be that, and should be changed in English in that case :)
21:26:53Llor_PhoneA change is good in my mind
21:27:09linuxstbpixelma: I've just looked - there isn't. "Create voice file", "install voice file", "create talk files".
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21:27:31Llor_PhoneHelps people know what's really there.
21:27:36pixelmait's called "Voice" in the menu too
21:27:38Horschtbut seeing as it actualy refers to features that are in german commonly refered to as "barrierefrei" it makes it easier for handicapped/blind people to "recognize" them as such
21:27:43AlexPSo "Voice" or "Voicing" or something
21:28:03Llor_PhoneAccessibility can also include text magnification, sticky keys, etc in most OSes
21:28:04AlexPHorscht: And it shouldn't IMO
21:28:22Horschtwhy not use a term that handicapped people know?
21:28:24AlexPHorscht: It is just voicing - sure blind people will use it, but so will many others
21:28:26Llor_PhoneWe don't do any of that.
21:28:37AlexPHorscht: So they wouldn't know voice?
21:28:52AlexPHorscht: Or Speech, or something
21:28:56gevaertsActually, am I right in assuming that %?px<> can only handle 100 cases?
21:29:03Horscht"spoken menus" perhaps?
21:29:13linuxstbHorscht: Everywhere else, we talk about "voice" - so I think it makes sense for rbutil to have that as a tab.
21:29:13AlexPHorscht: It isn't just menus
21:29:35JdGordon|gevaerts: you'd have to check.. it might be able to do as many as conditionals are used...
21:29:42JdGordon|the resolution will be wierd though
21:29:54pixelmagevaerts: I think so but am not sure at all
21:29:56JdGordon|100 makes sense as the max
21:29:59*Horscht wonders what we currently translate the word "voice" to in german...
21:30:18gevaertsJdGordon|: that's what I mean. I expect more than 100 to start just skipping some
21:30:33pixelmaHorscht: Sprachausgabe
21:30:37linuxstbHorscht: "Sprachausgabe" I thinj
21:30:57Horschtah, "Sprachausgabe".
21:30:57linuxstb^think (but slower than pixelma)
21:31:04pixelma(a bit more like "voicing" but very common)
21:31:32JdGordon|gevaerts: you could maybe use the progess time tag to do it instead which could give much more options
21:31:50AlexPWell I'm all for renaming it "Voice" in English, and whatever the equivalent is in other languages :)
21:32:42*pixelma agrees
21:32:47Horschtwell... I actualy like the term "barrierefrei", but then again, I wouldn't use the menu at all, actualy.
21:33:03Horschtand I think "Sprachausgabe" is descriptive enough
21:33:22pixelmaI think it's even more descriptive in this case
21:33:25gevaertsJdGordon|: I'd have to put that in a big conditional on total track length then...
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21:33:53JdGordon|oh yes, that wouldnt work
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21:34:30gevaertsanyway what I'm doing is a workaround for something that should just have its own tag
21:34:46Horschtyeah, "Barrierefrei" could also imply other techniques like text enlargement. That is correct and something to consider
21:35:30*JdGordon| points gevaerts to gwps-common.c :)
21:37:19JdGordon|gevaerts: i'm not sure it would be so hard to add a thing to use tags as values... the problem is going to be that the placement tags are all read on load and then dumped
21:37:32pixelmadoes someone know why it was chosen to fill in RTC tags with −− when a target has no RTC? I'd rather like a "is RTC present tag" ...
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21:37:56JdGordon|so the same .wps could be used on targets without it
21:38:13JdGordon|and targets like the e200...
21:38:22AlexPBut a RTC present tag would be even bettwe for that
21:38:25AlexP*better
21:38:37gevaertsJdGordon|: that's what I'd expect, yes. Parsing should be doable, but handling the result isn't going to be fun
21:38:53pixelmabut if there was a "is RTC present" tag, you could put something else there instead
21:38:57AlexP%?rtc<do rtc stuff|No RTC>
21:40:00pixelmamaybe the first one was the quick "fix"...
21:40:32JdGordon|pixelma: sure,... go ahead and add it :) its dead simple, add a new tag to gwps.h, and then the actual tag to wps_parser.c, then lastly add the code to check for the rtc in gwps-common.c in get
21:40:34JdGordon|_tag()
21:41:03JdGordon|might not be called get_tag() but shouldnt be hard to findthe correct place for it
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21:42:10pixelmaif I don't forget, I'll try to have a look tomorrow (quite tired today), atm it sounds like something I could do provided there is enough to copy from
21:42:59JdGordon|yeah, its should be pretty easy to figure out
21:45:01JdGordon|well, the logic for the correct value for the tag oculd be a bit annoying... but not too hard
21:45:59pixelmaif not, I'll post something to the feature ideas forum ;)
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22:10:19bluebrotherinteresting: http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/driver/wdf/USB_WDF.mspx
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22:37:24BdN3504hey, can i make propose an improvement to the forum site?
22:37:44evilnick_7Sure
22:38:00BdN3504Could anyone with the capabilities to do it make this graphic clickable
22:38:10BdN3504http://forums.rockbox.org/Themes/Rockbox_Llorean/images/rockbox350for.gif
22:38:22BdN3504redirecting you to the homepage of the forum
22:38:29BdN3504http://forums.rockbox.org/
22:38:38BdN3504?
22:39:05evilnick_7Can't you just click on "Rockbox Technical Forums" just below the logo?
22:39:19evilnick_7Or the Forum link on the left hand navigation panel
22:39:19Bagderor the home button
22:39:21linuxstbOr the "Home" button just below the logo?
22:39:40LloreanThere's a lot of buttons you can use to return to the main forum page, yes.
22:39:49linuxstbBut I guess one more wouldn't hurt ;)
22:39:50BdN3504but the rockbox logo on the left hand side of the site has the same behaviour, only it takes you to the homapage
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22:40:28BdN3504so i thought it would only be consistent if the forums logo took you to the forums homepage
22:40:44*evilnick_7 doesn't think it's a huge issue
22:41:31evilnick_7BdN3504: I don't think you're wrong. It does make more sense to have that redirect there if it has to be a clickable link
22:41:59BdN3504evilnick_7 thanks for the compassion
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23:30:48CIA-38New commit by 03mt (r20931): Move bswap.h up from libavutil/ and remove libavutil/
23:35:08linuxstbmt: It doesn't really matter for that file, but you should use "svn mv" when moving files in svn (to keep the history)
23:37:22mtlinuxstb L I was going to use it but I didn't know if it would work if with a delete in the same commit ?
23:37:50linuxstbYou use it instead of a delete.
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23:39:19*gevaerts guesses that mt means the delete of libavutil/
23:39:22mtI mean deleting the directory "libavutil"
23:40:42linuxstbI would expect it to work. Or you could just just deleted that directory in the next commit.
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