| 00:00:07 | | Join BeChris [0] (i=5c89760a@gateway/web/freenode/x-10f8b5231d478a5e) |
| 00:00:09 | CIA-70 | New commit by zagor (r21461): Specify -s to perl. |
| 00:00:17 | | Quit stripwax ("http://miranda-im.org") |
| 00:00:21 | CIA-70 | New commit by kugel (r21462): FS #10365 - Optional debug output for albumart.c ... |
| 00:00:22 | Mikachu | heh, the upload didn't even print "time spent", it was too fast |
| 00:00:24 | | Quit BeChris (Client Quit) |
| 00:00:26 | kugel | busy commit bot :P |
| 00:00:29 | | Quit notlistening (Remote closed the connection) |
| 00:00:30 | Mikachu | oh that was the .log |
| 00:00:33 | kugel | Blue_Dude: thanks for that! |
| 00:00:43 | Mikachu | 3 seconds for the zip |
| 00:00:53 | Mikachu | does it just build the current revision over and over? |
| 00:00:56 | saratoga | so the client will update itself as you push new versions to svn? |
| 00:00:59 | | Join BeChris [0] (i=5c89760a@gateway/web/freenode/x-7ee6cc8b6c3ad698) |
| 00:01:11 | BeChris | Hello everybody |
| 00:01:12 | Blue_Dude | Welcome! I was trying to debug another module and had to wade through all the chaff. They just had to go. |
| 00:01:23 | Mikachu | (i'm not going to be running a build server, i'm just testing) |
| 00:01:32 | Zagor | Mikachu: yes, it's currently not doing anything useful other than testing |
| 00:01:36 | Mikachu | (s/server/client/) |
| 00:02:18 | | Quit `VL ("happines is a positive cache flow") |
| 00:03:20 | BeChris | I'm looking for someone who might help for my png viewer plugin |
| 00:03:36 | Mikachu | Zagor: any reason it prints the full path for the .log and only the filename for the .zip? |
| 00:03:46 | Zagor | Mikachu: the idea with this new build client is that you can just run it an hour or two if you like and then kill it. |
| 00:03:54 | Zagor | Mikachu: no reason :) |
| 00:04:17 | * | kugel received 4 buils |
| 00:04:18 | Mikachu | okay :) |
| 00:04:37 | Zagor | kugel: yes, the server feeds everyone four builds. |
| 00:04:38 | kugel | Zagor: that's a major improvement imo |
| 00:05:10 | Mikachu | BeChris: fwiw i have this super advanced plugin lying around http://comm.it.cx/?p=rockbox-svn.git;a=blob_plain;f=apps/plugins/bmp.c;h=288921c2c63d1a0212958bb698519f7291abe63a;hb=33d5e642cf73fad14b304064162cf1877a0ea9e4 |
| 00:05:24 | * | Mikachu idly wonders why that url has two hashes |
| 00:06:26 | CIA-70 | New commit by bertrik (r21463): Fix more missing mutex_init calls. |
| 00:06:29 | Mikachu | that probably doesn't help you :) |
| 00:06:39 | BeChris | Mikachu: I'm a bit farther than that :) |
| 00:06:44 | Mikachu | hehe, okay |
| 00:07:30 | Mikachu | Zagor: what are the () numbers, just process id? |
| 00:07:35 | BeChris | Even If you don't help, you might be interrested to test : see FS #9493 |
| 00:07:35 | Zagor | yay, someone got killed :) |
| 00:07:37 | Mikachu | child: sansac200 (27688) done |
| 00:07:47 | Zagor | Mikachu: yes, pid. debug leftovers. |
| 00:08:01 | Mikachu | i was confused first because they happened to be close to current svn revs :) |
| 00:08:09 | Zagor | hehe |
| 00:10:11 | rasher | Zagor: Can you follow what happens somewhere? |
| 00:10:26 | Zagor | yes I'm looking at the buildmaster output |
| 00:10:46 | Mikachu | did you see me close mine? |
| 00:10:48 | rasher | Actually, can *I* follow what happens |
| 00:10:59 | Zagor | rasher: no, not yet |
| 00:11:09 | Zagor | I spotted a bug in the master. restarting... |
| 00:11:32 | * | Mikachu thinks he had pretty good bugs found / time spent ratio |
| 00:11:39 | kugel | uh nice |
| 00:11:50 | saratoga | very neat |
| 00:11:50 | rasher | Zagor: What happens between the "Starting client" and HELLO? That takes a while.. |
| 00:11:55 | Zagor | Mikachu: heh, yeah |
| 00:11:57 | kugel | it automagically restarted |
| 00:12:20 | Zagor | rasher: it tries to connect to buildmaster. I had the master down a couple of seconds. |
| 00:12:37 | rasher | Ah, that would do it |
| 00:13:33 | | Quit ender` (" On the contrary, if you never procreate, neither will your kids.") |
| 00:14:27 | Zagor | wow, the buildmaster bandwidth is a real bottleneck |
| 00:14:34 | Zagor | good thing we keep building! |
| 00:16:36 | Zagor | 100 builds not complete, 7 clients. 24 builds in progress |
| 00:17:19 | rasher | urgh, why's it doing make -j$something? |
| 00:17:28 | | Join stripwax [0] (n=Miranda@87-194-34-169.bethere.co.uk) |
| 00:17:36 | Mikachu | you'd probably want to be able to configure that |
| 00:17:44 | Mikachu | maybe just use $MAKEOPTS? |
| 00:17:45 | rasher | Or just respect MAKEFLAGS ... |
| 00:17:47 | rasher | or opts |
| 00:17:50 | saratoga | it looks like it tries to pick a good thread number |
| 00:17:54 | rasher | I always forget |
| 00:18:13 | Zagor | it reads /proc/cpuinfo and does -j cores+1 |
| 00:18:23 | saratoga | why does it use zip instead of 7zip? |
| 00:18:38 | saratoga | i guess too much work to rezip on the other end? |
| 00:18:39 | rasher | Sure, but why not just respect MAKEFLAGS? |
| 00:18:41 | Zagor | that's a question for the makefiles |
| 00:19:41 | Zagor | looking at MAKEFLAGS makes sense |
| 00:20:06 | rasher | I mean, why do -j at all? Can't people set MAKEFLAGS as they please? |
| 00:20:13 | saratoga | easier |
| 00:20:16 | Zagor | .j is faster. we want speed. |
| 00:20:41 | rasher | Zagor: You're overriding what I set in MAKEFLAGS. That's mean |
| 00:20:57 | Zagor | I agree, we should respect MAKEFILES. I'll look at that. |
| 00:21:02 | | Quit nibbler_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 00:21:03 | Zagor | MAKEFLAGS, I mean |
| 00:21:31 | rasher | But why not rely on that? |
| 00:21:36 | rasher | Rather than doing the guessing |
| 00:22:01 | Mikachu | usually it would be unset and waste 75% on new cpus? |
| 00:22:07 | rasher | Do people not set makeflags? |
| 00:22:08 | Zagor | because then we have to make everyone set up MAKEFLAGS to get best speed. I'd rather have those who _don't_ want max speed set up exceptions. |
| 00:22:13 | BeChris | going to bed |
| 00:22:15 | BeChris | See U |
| 00:22:29 | rasher | Actually I have make -j 4 |
| 00:22:31 | Zagor | rasher: I think most people don't. |
| 00:22:41 | rasher | Then they lack discipline! |
| 00:22:46 | Zagor | :) |
| 00:22:51 | Mikachu | i didn't even know it existed, i have MAKEOPTS for gentoo though |
| 00:23:03 | rasher | I think that's different |
| 00:23:06 | | Quit BeChris ("Page closed") |
| 00:23:21 | * | JdGordon has -j6 set for the rbclient build.. and it freezes firefox when a build happens :) |
| 00:23:24 | Mikachu | it's not very uncommon for makefiles to fail on parallel builds |
| 00:23:45 | rasher | I wonder what's with the makeopts/makeflags thing |
| 00:23:50 | rasher | man make only mentions makeflags here |
| 00:23:55 | Zagor | Mikachu: exactly. we mark each build mt-safe or not, and only run -j on mt-safe ones. |
| 00:23:59 | Mikachu | opts is just a gentoo thing |
| 00:24:03 | saratoga | i just do make -j, it didn't seem much different then make -j4 |
| 00:24:15 | Mikachu | saratoga: how much ram do you have? :) |
| 00:24:17 | | Quit bmbl ("Bye!") |
| 00:24:19 | saratoga | 4GB |
| 00:24:37 | rasher | Zagor: I'd rather have the makefiles fixed.. |
| 00:24:39 | Zagor | -j forks massive amounts of processes. it runs _every_ file in parallell. 50-200 |
| 00:24:58 | Zagor | rasher: it's not an either/or thing. |
| 00:25:10 | Zagor | also some targets simply don't benefit from -j, such as the manuals |
| 00:25:16 | Zagor | they are very linear |
| 00:26:07 | rasher | If a build *fails* with anything but -j1, surely that's a bug? |
| 00:26:15 | Zagor | yes |
| 00:26:24 | | Quit CathodeRayTube ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)") |
| 00:27:07 | rasher | Are you hiding those bugs by not doing -j for them? |
| 00:27:12 | rasher | Or did I just misunderstand |
| 00:27:21 | | Quit bertrik ("De groeten") |
| 00:27:34 | Zagor | no. some targets don't run faster with -j, because they only run one command at a time |
| 00:27:48 | Zagor | in those cases it's better to build 4 different targets in parallell instead of running -j |
| 00:28:05 | saratoga | how hard would it be to do that? |
| 00:28:07 | | Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection) |
| 00:28:21 | rasher | Zagor: Ah so it's not so much mt-safe, as mt-useful |
| 00:28:27 | Zagor | saratoga: it's implemented already. not tested yet though. |
| 00:28:31 | Zagor | rasher: exactly |
| 00:28:46 | * | Mikachu only has the one core |
| 00:28:47 | rasher | I can dig that |
| 00:28:56 | | Quit n1s (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 00:29:06 | Blue_Dude | kugel: Just a heads up: FS #10364 is still active. |
| 00:32:03 | Torne | FS #9872 can go too if someone is doing that, an equivalent (but not the same diff) has been committed |
| 00:32:13 | Torne | i put the details in a comment |
| 00:37:08 | saratoga | is the client now just building endlessly ? |
| 00:37:42 | Zagor | yes, it's just for testing. the server starts a new build round as soon as the previous has ended. |
| 00:38:06 | saratoga | will this work on cygwin? |
| 00:38:24 | rasher | saratoga: Wellcome to slowtown. Population: you |
| 00:38:39 | saratoga | i've got a windows Pentium D machine sitting around here |
| 00:38:57 | rasher | More than likely, you're better off running a vm |
| 00:39:22 | rasher | I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work on cygwin though |
| 00:39:47 | Zagor | does "uname -o" work in cygwin? |
| 00:40:19 | saratoga | it returns "cygwin" |
| 00:41:10 | Zagor | good |
| 00:41:55 | | Join Liam [0] (n=liam-mic@5ac3b706.bb.sky.com) |
| 00:42:08 | Liam | Awrite, can someone help me? |
| 00:42:14 | Zagor | ok guys, thanks for testing. I'm shutting down buildmaster now. |
| 00:42:27 | Liam | I want to change like the background of my ipod nano 3rd gen, was wondering how i'd do it/ is it possible? |
| 00:42:33 | saratoga | how close to ready is the new build system? |
| 00:42:58 | rasher | Liam: Rockbox does not run on the nano 3rd gen. We cannot help you. |
| 00:42:59 | Zagor | pretty close. there's a few small issues with the build handouts in the master. |
| 00:43:06 | Liam | Dammit |
| 00:43:09 | | Part Liam |
| 00:43:11 | saratoga | and i guess user names and passwords |
| 00:43:18 | Zagor | right :) |
| 00:45:23 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 00:45:48 | Mikachu | and ssl certs? or what is the idea? |
| 00:46:18 | Zagor | possibly ssl certs. we'll probably start with plain user:pass though. |
| 00:50:56 | Zagor | I'm going away on a one-week vacation on tuesday, so maybe we'll delay launch until I get back |
| 00:53:03 | | Join Neovanglist [0] (i=Neovangl@69.31.129.33) |
| 00:56:24 | | Quit Zagor ("Clint excited") |
| 01:00 |
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| 01:09:13 | * | JdGordon doesnt know how to tackle his old(ish) wps ram usage patch.... try to figure out the killer bug? or start again? :'( |
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| 01:33:13 | | Nick zitune is now known as zitune[afk] (n=zitune@bearstech/zitune) |
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| 01:38:33 | Llorean | JdGordon: I find restarting things often leads to me tackling certain details in new ways I hadn't thought of before. There could be other benefits from starting over too. |
| 01:39:14 | JdGordon | yeah, im having a bit of trouble syncing it so maybe restarting is the way to go |
| 01:40:46 | | Quit faemir (Remote closed the connection) |
| 01:44:02 | | Quit stripwax ("http://miranda-im.org") |
| 01:49:18 | Greek-Boy | nybody here have trouble playing FLAC's in rockbox? |
| 01:49:32 | Llorean | What sort of trouble are you having? |
| 01:50:15 | Greek-Boy | it does a dump after a few seconds of playing it |
| 01:50:17 | Greek-Boy | locks up |
| 01:50:19 | Greek-Boy | gotta reboot |
| 01:50:30 | linuxstb | On what device are you running Rockbox? |
| 01:50:48 | Greek-Boy | IPOD Video 80GB but i upgraded the hard drive to 220GB |
| 01:50:59 | Greek-Boy | or 240GB i think |
| 01:51:03 | Llorean | Have you tried the 30GB build? |
| 01:51:12 | Greek-Boy | i had to do my own build |
| 01:51:25 | Greek-Boy | because the sector size was too small in the 80GB build |
| 01:51:27 | Llorean | We don't provide support for custom builds. |
| 01:51:43 | Llorean | But you should try modifying a 30GB build instead and see if that helps |
| 01:51:49 | linuxstb | Greek-Boy: Do other formats work OK, or do you just have FLAC? |
| 01:51:59 | Greek-Boy | other formats work great |
| 01:52:03 | Greek-Boy | its just a FLAC issue |
| 01:52:10 | Greek-Boy | i used a SVN source to build |
| 01:52:32 | | Join funman [0] (n=fun@rockbox/developer/funman) |
| 01:52:39 | linuxstb | And the same FLACs play fine on a PC? Is there anything unusual about the FLACs? e.g. 24-bit? |
| 01:55:03 | Greek-Boy | yeah the same FLAC's play |
| 01:55:14 | | Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net) |
| 01:55:44 | Llorean | I would still suggest first attempting a 30GB build. |
| 01:55:57 | Greek-Boy | linuxstb: Forgive me for asking but where would I check if the FLAC is 24-bit? |
| 01:56:48 | | Join Strath [0] (n=Strath__@173-23-45-236.client.mchsi.com) |
| 01:57:22 | Mikachu | why would the 30GB build help if it was originally 80GB? |
| 01:57:24 | linuxstb | Llorean: I wouldn't expect that to help - the codec buffer is loaded at the end of RAM, so I would expect it to crash immediately. Also Greek-Boy said other formats work fine. |
| 01:57:46 | Mikachu | or did you misread the 8 as a 3? did i? :) |
| 01:58:03 | Llorean | linuxstb: Most problems with the build difference seem to show up "about 20 minutes in" which suggests it's end-of-buffer behaviour for some reason. you'd reach that much sooner with FLAC. |
| 01:58:25 | Llorean | Mikachu: Because many 80gb devices still have 32MB of RAM for whatever reason. Often they're refurbished. |
| 01:58:32 | Mikachu | aha |
| 01:59:07 | Llorean | And it's a quick, simple test that can be got out of the way in a couple minutes. If it doesn't work, nothing too terribly costly lost. If it does, problem solved. |
| 01:59:22 | Mikachu | definitely |
| 01:59:30 | Greek-Boy | I wish I could check if its a ram issue or not. Is there a way to check the ram on the ipod? |
| 01:59:42 | Llorean | As I said, build a 30GB build and try it instead. |
| 01:59:47 | Llorean | if it's a RAM issue, the 30GB build will work fine. |
| 01:59:52 | Llorean | With sector size changes, that is |
| 02:00 |
| 02:00:02 | Mikachu | Greek-Boy: 30GB ipods have 32MB ram and 80GB ones have 64MB, but maybe yours has 32MB |
| 02:00:19 | Strath | If anyone here is working on the SanDisk Sansa View port, I would be interested in offering my sevices to further the cause. If not, any tips from others here on were to get started? |
| 02:00:19 | Mikachu | if that wasn't clear from the above |
| 02:00:21 | Greek-Boy | ok |
| 02:00:38 | saratoga | Strath: obo is working on it, you should ask him |
| 02:00:39 | Greek-Boy | on another topic, will we see better video support in Rockbox in the near future? I thought I would be able to play DivX off it... |
| 02:00:49 | Mikachu | Greek-Boy: unlikely |
| 02:00:49 | Strath | thanks saratoga |
| 02:00:59 | saratoga | but hes been sending regular emails to the list with his progress, have you seen them? |
| 02:01:30 | Strath | i've seen a few forum posts, but i don't think the email lists |
| 02:01:38 | Mikachu | it is a gsoc project, right? |
| 02:01:46 | Greek-Boy | Mikachu: I see. Well anyway its still a good solution for me. I want to be able to listen to FLAC's. Especially in my car... |
| 02:02:05 | Greek-Boy | Mikachu: Can rockbox be connected to a kenwood head unit in ipod mode? |
| 02:02:11 | Mikachu | no idea |
| 02:02:23 | Mikachu | i don't have any accessories, even a dock |
| 02:04:36 | Greek-Boy | ok |
| 02:09:11 | saratoga | Strath: i think more help disassemblying would be welcome |
| 02:10:02 | linuxstb | Greek-Boy: BTW, you don't use an apostrophe for plurals - e.g. "FLACs"... |
| 02:11:15 | Greek-Boy | linuxstb: Thank you for the info. :-) |
| 02:20:25 | | Quit linuxstb ("Leaving") |
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| 02:37:20 | Strath | rom disassembly? i can do that |
| 02:38:35 | Greek-Boy | linuxstb: Whats the coolest thing that you do on your rockbox? |
| 02:38:54 | funman | saratoga: did you get my message about limiting Fuze RAM ? (padding current memory layout) |
| 02:40:26 | funman | Strath: just check the Sansa view wiki page linked from "status for work in progress ports", linked from the main page |
| 02:40:38 | | Join cool_walking_ [0] (i=cb3b81c3@gateway/web/freenode/x-1ffdabecd1bf3972) |
| 02:40:50 | Blue_Dude | I just posted another teeny patch at FS #10366. This one also removes nuisance debug messages. Please take a look. |
| 02:40:52 | funman | the current target is lcd support, it would make debugging much easier |
| 02:41:33 | saratoga | funman: yes but I forgot to try it since i didn't have a linux machine handy this weekend, will take a look now |
| 02:42:20 | saratoga | do you have a link to it in the logs? |
| 02:42:22 | funman | saratoga: i meet the same problem than on the clip on the c200v2 (which has 2MB of RAM, and a slightly smaller audiobuffer since it's color and the lcd framebuffer doesn't fit in iram |
| 02:42:49 | saratoga | ah found it |
| 02:43:26 | funman | http://www.rockbox.org/irc/log-20090619#14:14:39 |
| 02:44:15 | funman | i started hacking but i think i need expert advise about buffering (i enabled logf in playback.c and buffering.c) |
| 02:44:43 | funman | perhaps FS #9332 would help also |
| 02:45:27 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 02:46:30 | saratoga | funman: does this look right? http://pastebin.com/m6b5c27e |
| 02:47:36 | funman | saratoga: yes looks very right : just check in debug menu -> buffering thread that you have something in the lines of 32kB audio buffer |
| 02:47:59 | saratoga | well i only consumed 5MB of RAM so i should have more then that right? |
| 02:48:19 | funman | if you use album art you might need a patched i have quoted on irc recently (but i'd like advice from someone knowing buffering like nico_p) |
| 02:48:50 | funman | my fuze build have ram usage: 1147176, so you migt need a bit more :) |
| 02:48:58 | saratoga | funman: have you tried shrinking the PCM buffer on the clip to see if that helps? |
| 02:49:39 | funman | linuxstb told me the PCM buffer should be at least 1s (like it is now) for crossfading to work. But he wasn't 100% sure about it. |
| 02:50:19 | funman | Anyway I think the PCM buffer should be much largest than the audiobuffer (at least 10 times more, since I think 10:1 is a common compression ratio for lossy codecs?) |
| 02:50:22 | saratoga | i get alloc is 77KB, is that the audiobuffer? |
| 02:50:54 | funman | alloc = x/available_audiobuffer |
| 02:51:42 | funman | x being the size of audiobuffer used by real file buffers, and additional buffers (like file descriptors) |
| 02:52:14 | funman | the available audiobuffer is the size of audiobuffer (seen in rockbox.map), minus the size used by voices, tagcache, etc .. |
| 02:52:43 | saratoga | my vorbis test file will play, but no mp3s will with 5MB of padding |
| 02:53:06 | funman | do you have pictures embedded in your mp3s ? (id3v2) |
| 02:53:26 | saratoga | no but there is one in teh folder its probably trying to load, let me remove it |
| 02:54:10 | saratoga | that fixed playback |
| 02:54:21 | | Quit readability (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 02:54:42 | funman | there is an infinite loop when the buffer is too small for loading album art. I have a fix but again i'm not 100% sure if it's correct. |
| 02:54:58 | saratoga | shall i just loop for a while and see if it locks up? |
| 02:55:05 | saratoga | or maybe try a smaller buffer? |
| 02:55:32 | funman | how big is the available audio buffer ? (I think on the c200v2 it ranged from 30k to 50k) |
| 02:56:09 | saratoga | huh music just deadlocked |
| 02:56:17 | funman | I could even have a negative audiobuffer size when enabling logf and/or setting settings > limits to the maximum |
| 02:56:32 | saratoga | well the denominator in the buffering thread is still 77KB, should i get the number from rockbox.map? |
| 02:56:35 | funman | saratoga: so it justs enforces the theory that the bug is related to buffering |
| 02:57:15 | saratoga | yes it sounds like something is seriously wrong with buffering if the buffer is relatively small |
| 02:57:48 | funman | saratoga: in rockbox.map you can make the difference between audiobufend and audiobuffer, so you'll get the real audiobuffer size. But from that value you need to remove the bytes used by tagcache, talk, etc..) |
| 02:58:25 | funman | I think somehow the buffering is looping if there is not enough size available. |
| 02:58:25 | saratoga | now audio is quite screwed up, sounds like i'm only hearing the difference channel so that vocals are nearly attenuated but music is loud |
| 02:59:06 | funman | hm .. if you don't have a clip, here is how I (we, with bertrik at least) "fix" playback : stop, and resume, or power off, and resume. |
| 02:59:19 | saratoga | i have a clip |
| 02:59:49 | funman | if you have a clip you use regularly with rockbox (i use my fuze much more now :P ) |
| 03:00 |
| 03:00:59 | saratoga | the difference between audiobuf and end is almost exactly 1MB |
| 03:01:16 | saratoga | so that would probably explain why 2MB didn't work with the fuze |
| 03:09:39 | saratoga | funman: oddly enough, after rebooting into the OF, playing a file, and then rebooting back, audio works correctly again |
| 03:09:44 | saratoga | but just rebooting wasn't enough to fix it |
| 03:09:52 | saratoga | e200v2 for what its worth |
| 03:10:12 | saratoga | maybe i just have a bad headphone jack or something |
| 03:13:10 | funman | saratoga: if you haven't used much your clip recently, this might seem strange. But looks "normal" to me and clip users. |
| 03:16:16 | saratoga | i'm going to let it loop for a while and see if it deadlocks again while i'm not hitting buttons |
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| 03:21:28 | linuxstb | Blue_Dude: Regarding your debugging output patches, why not simply replace DEBUGF() with logf() ? |
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| 04:23:42 | funman | I will look again at recording on Sansa AMS tomorrow, i think it should be quite easy to implement |
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| 04:51:29 | Blue_Dude | linuxstb: There's no problem with that, except it would be nice to turn off logf when not building for a simulator. |
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| 05:38:10 | JdGordon | any chance of getting testers for FS #9886? |
| 05:38:31 | JdGordon | I'm pretty sure its got some subtle bugs which my quick testing isnt showing up |
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| 05:53:51 | JdGordon | http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=22008.0 |
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| 06:22:19 | Llorean | JdGordon: What happens when it uses less RAM? I'm assuming that doesn't mean "there's more buffer", is the RAM just sitting around unused (not a complaint, this is what I'd expect, it's just your post makes it sound like simple themes somehow free something up, which seems it'd cause problems if you changed to a complex theme *during* playback) |
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| 06:53:31 | JdGordon | Llorean: yeah, i just realised i should elaborate more... going to do that now... |
| 06:53:44 | JdGordon | when its finished the freed ram will be able to be returned to the audio buffer |
| 06:53:46 | JdGordon | sort of.... |
| 06:57:44 | Llorean | Sort of? |
| 06:57:49 | Llorean | How will it work if playback is running? |
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| 07:05:36 | JdGordon | it wont work it playback is running.... (not untill our magicall not-malloc-but-re-allocalbla-alloc-buffer stuff happens |
| 07:07:03 | Llorean | Ah, so it's not really something useful until other work happens. I don't think users will like losing the ability to change WPS whenever they like without stopping. |
| 07:09:45 | JdGordon | they wont |
| 07:10:26 | JdGordon | anyway, we've had this discussion before and it was decided that its +'s were better than its -'s so when it works its going in |
| 07:12:54 | * | Llorean shrugs |
| 07:14:30 | JdGordon | ... its in the logs, bassically the change wont affect users anyway if they dont touch the setting (or however its done)... but if people want crazy themes with 300K of images, they will be able to do that |
| 07:14:50 | JdGordon | and when the wfm screen happens this can potentially soften its ram usage hit |
| 07:15:04 | Llorean | Setting? |
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| 07:17:55 | JdGordon | pigin crashed :/ |
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| 07:18:10 | Llorean | Yeah, it's a bit unstable these days. |
| 07:18:12 | JdGordon | it in all likelyhood wont be a true setting... |
| 07:18:24 | Llorean | What would it be. I'm a little confused, but i haven't tried the patch |
| 07:18:25 | JdGordon | thats up for debate once this thing actually works correctly |
| 07:18:56 | * | Llorean shrugs. |
| 07:19:00 | * | Llorean never changes his WPS anyway |
| 07:19:28 | JdGordon | ditto |
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| 09:12:19 | GodEater | is it just me, or are the forums running *damn* slow today ? |
| 09:16:47 | cool_walking_ | I haven't noticed it. |
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| 09:45:32 | Sir_Brizz | Can anyone legitimize or disprove these two claims? 1) Rockbox won't let you charge your ipod through USB, 2) Rockbox syncs much slower than the standard ipod firmware |
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| 09:46:44 | GodEater | 1) is a bug we're currently we're on, it's not that it "won't let you", more that "it doesn't and we don't know why". |
| 09:46:56 | GodEater | 2) I don't think that's true |
| 09:47:56 | AlexP | GodEater: On some ipods the USB writing is much slower |
| 09:48:05 | AlexP | in Rockbox as opposed to OF |
| 09:48:18 | AlexP | 4/5 MB/sec as opposed to 14 MB/sec |
| 09:48:30 | GodEater | AlexP: can't say I've noticed. Although I think I'm using the DMA patch, which does help :) |
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| 09:48:31 | AlexP | That is 4 to 5, not 0.8 :) |
| 09:48:45 | AlexP | GodEater: The DMA patch helps hugely |
| 09:48:59 | * | GodEater waves the "commit it" flag |
| 09:49:00 | AlexP | With that it is not too far off the OF IIRC |
| 09:53:18 | AlexP | Sir_Brizz: The charging issue is why Rockbox USB is not enabled on the ipods for the releases, so that when you plug in USB it rteboots to the OF |
| 09:55:41 | Lss | it doesnt reboot to of on the current builds right |
| 09:55:44 | Lss | at least mine didnt |
| 09:56:08 | Sir_Brizz | well that stinks |
| 09:56:11 | Sir_Brizz | I'm consideringh loading it |
| 09:56:19 | Lss | and yes my ipod 5.5 transfers faster on of |
| 09:56:28 | Lss | 3rdly i can charge my ipod on rockbox |
| 09:56:31 | Sir_Brizz | mine';s an old ipod, not sure which gen |
| 09:56:41 | Lss | in fact a weird thing is that on of it charges till 88 only |
| 09:56:47 | Lss | while on rockbox it gets to 100 |
| 09:57:03 | GodEater | Sir_Brizz: what do you mean "that stinks" ? |
| 09:57:21 | Sir_Brizz | that the charging doesn't work in rockbox |
| 09:57:21 | Lss | rockbox is slower than OF on usb transfers |
| 09:57:28 | Lss | erm i just said it does |
| 09:57:29 | Sir_Brizz | and that rockbox is slower |
| 09:57:32 | Lss | on the current build |
| 09:57:44 | Lss | i even have one of those portable battery packs which i use on the go |
| 09:57:51 | Lss | while im still listening to the rockboxed ipod |
| 09:58:07 | GodEater | Sir_Brizz: but if you download the Release version it won't matter to you, since when you plug it into USB, you'll get the orignal firmware anyway, and so your ipod will continue to work fine. |
| 09:58:15 | GodEater | So I don't understand what difference it makes |
| 09:58:20 | Sir_Brizz | oh I see |
| 09:58:26 | Sir_Brizz | so even syncing would be "faster" |
| 09:58:36 | GodEater | faster than what ? |
| 09:58:46 | Sir_Brizz | well that's why I quoted it |
| 09:58:56 | Sir_Brizz | purportedly faster than in rockbox |
| 09:59:03 | Lss | rockbox usb transfers are slower than OF usb transfers on my ipod |
| 09:59:12 | Lss | by a factor of about 5 |
| 09:59:27 | GodEater | Sir_Brizz: you won't be using Rockbox's USB code to sync at all though |
| 09:59:31 | Sir_Brizz | yeah |
| 09:59:34 | Sir_Brizz | that's what I mean |
| 09:59:49 | Sir_Brizz | once I plug in the USB charging and syncing will be on of |
| 09:59:58 | | Quit CIA-70 () |
| 10:00 |
| 10:00:17 | Sir_Brizz | so if I put rockbox on and hate it, how hard is it to remove? |
| 10:00:40 | Lss | its faster than the time you took to type that |
| 10:00:42 | scorche|sh | as hard as hitting an uninstall button |
| 10:00:46 | Sir_Brizz | haha fair enough |
| 10:00:50 | Lss | the automated tool makes it really simple |
| 10:01:02 | Sir_Brizz | okay last question then, when I put rockbox on will it erase my files? |
| 10:01:13 | Lss | no |
| 10:01:18 | Sir_Brizz | great |
| 10:01:20 | Lss | but |
| 10:01:27 | Lss | itunes stuff will require the database |
| 10:01:36 | Lss | otherwise you cant access it |
| 10:01:37 | GodEater | so make sure you've read the manual |
| 10:01:38 | Sir_Brizz | protected files you mean? |
| 10:02:04 | Lss | basically music you synced onto the ipod using itunes |
| 10:02:09 | Sir_Brizz | ah |
| 10:02:15 | Lss | and you can pretty much kiss your videos bye bye |
| 10:02:26 | Lss | rockbox isnt very good at video playback anyway |
| 10:02:49 | GodEater | rockbox is just fine at video playback on all ipods except the 5/5.5 gen thanks |
| 10:03:52 | Lss | i remember that the format support means you had to re encode wasnt it |
| 10:04:07 | GodEater | yes, but what's that got to do with the actual playback ? |
| 10:04:38 | Lss | having to settle for lower bitrates? |
| 10:04:51 | linuxstb | Lss: Rockbox runs on about 7 ipods which don't normally play video, but play it well in Rockbox. You're assuming Sir_Brizz has an ipod video. |
| 10:05:13 | Sir_Brizz | nope |
| 10:05:14 | Lss | good point will take note of that in the future |
| 10:05:17 | Sir_Brizz | this is an ipod color |
| 10:05:43 | GodEater | in which case a) you don't have videos on it at the moment anyway, and b) when you put some on their, they will look AWESOME!!!! |
| 10:05:50 | GodEater | s/their/there |
| 10:05:55 | Sir_Brizz | hehe :) |
| 10:06:01 | Sir_Brizz | okay I'm getting the installer |
| 10:06:25 | Sir_Brizz | is Rockbox Utility the preferred install method? |
| 10:06:37 | Lss | the most pain free yes |
| 10:06:38 | Sir_Brizz | oh I guess so |
| 10:06:39 | Lss | use it |
| 10:06:49 | Lss | even the theme function works now |
| 10:07:09 | linuxstb | Sir_Brizz: Yes - that's what the Rockbox manual suggests, and that's the definitive source for install and usage information. |
| 10:07:27 | Sir_Brizz | yeah I thought there were two installers for some reason |
| 10:07:37 | AlexP | Sir_Brizz: I would strongly recommend looking at the manual (to the point of insisting) :) |
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| 10:08:54 | GodEater | AlexP: is that the manual you insisted on breaking at the weekend ? :) |
| 10:09:10 | linuxstb | Sir_Brizz: There are two installers, but they do the same thing (and actually use the same code). One is just a command-line tool for installing the Rockbox bootloader (ipodpatcher), rbutil does a lot more. |
| 10:09:14 | Lss | its too long for most ppl to be honest |
| 10:09:21 | Lss | ttdr haha |
| 10:09:25 | Lss | tldr |
| 10:09:50 | Sir_Brizz | gotcha |
| 10:09:53 | GodEater | Lss: if you think you can condense it, please help us out |
| 10:10:17 | Lss | the wiki is good enough imo |
| 10:10:22 | Lss | rather than the full manual |
| 10:10:34 | AlexP | The wiki is full of outdated info |
| 10:10:44 | AlexP | And searching it is much much harder than the manual |
| 10:10:44 | GodEater | and is sometimes wrong |
| 10:11:14 | Lss | i see |
| 10:11:28 | Lss | let me look through 3.4's manual |
| 10:11:29 | | Quit ChanServ (shutting down) |
| 10:11:45 | Lss | 3.3 oops |
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| 10:11:53 | Mode | "#rockbox +o ChanServ " by irc.freenode.net |
| 10:11:53 | DBUG | sent MODE #rockbox -o ChanServ |
| 10:11:54 | *** | Server message 485: 'logbot ChanServ #rockbox :User is immune from kick/deop' |
| 10:14:52 | Sir_Brizz | does the complete install install the fonts package? |
| 10:15:34 | GodEater | I can't remember to be honest |
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| 10:23:22 | AlexP | Sir_Brizz: I think so |
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| 10:38:16 | blippe | i am trying to connect an itrip to ipod nano 1g with rockbox, is it possible to get it to work? |
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| 10:39:08 | GodEater | blippe: we have a page in the rockbox wiki which says which accessories work and which don't |
| 10:39:35 | GodEater | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IpodAccessories |
| 10:40:46 | blippe | GodEater: thanks... |
| 10:43:48 | AlexP | blippe: If yours isn't there it'd be great if you could add your findings so others can benefit in the future |
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| 10:46:55 | blippe | AlexP: np... |
| 10:47:06 | AlexP | cool |
| 10:47:21 | AlexP | Don't forget you might need options like the accessory power supply |
| 10:48:56 | blippe | Thing is, the transmitter shuts down when i swithc from the apple firmware, but i think i read somewhere about shorting a connector so it is charged while rebooting, but i can't find the information anywhere. |
| 10:49:15 | blippe | I am sitting with my soldering iron all set to go... :D |
| 10:49:33 | AlexP | er, search me :) |
| 10:50:14 | blippe | anybody know a thrustworthy schematic over the connectors on a ipod nano 1g ? |
| 10:50:54 | AlexP | There may be something on the wiki, but I couldn't tell you where |
| 10:51:04 | AlexP | Or the ipodlinux wiki might have too |
| 10:51:23 | blippe | i will have a look |
| 10:53:29 | Mikachu | google suggests http://pinouts.ru/PortableDevices/ipod_pinout.shtml |
| 10:55:13 | DarkSpectrum | before i try to install it, does anyone know if the FS #9955 bootloader for the Sansa C200 works well yet? |
| 10:55:45 | DarkSpectrum | i was originally hopeing that the bootloader would have been updated for the 3.3 release |
| 10:56:00 | GodEater | bootloaders don't form part of the releases |
| 10:56:25 | DarkSpectrum | oh.... |
| 10:57:03 | DarkSpectrum | just seems a nussance to have to boot the player before connecting USB now that it's supported, if you plug it in with power off the OF boots |
| 10:57:20 | AlexP | yes, new ones would be good |
| 10:57:20 | GodEater | the bootloader will be updated when it's ready |
| 10:57:36 | DarkSpectrum | lol and i have 9 C200's and 7 E200's :P |
| 10:57:45 | DarkSpectrum | updateing is a pain ;) |
| 10:57:57 | AlexP | DarkSpectrum: I don't recall offhand, but the comments in the thread should tell if there are any problems that have been found |
| 10:58:35 | DarkSpectrum | i find it's always safe to ask, not everyone reports problems on FS but will tell you here sometimes |
| 10:59:25 | AlexP | yes |
| 10:59:41 | AlexP | I haven't heard of any, but that doesn't always mean much :) |
| 10:59:48 | DarkSpectrum | BTW, don't ask why i have so many players, i'm addicted to them, and hell at only $15 at microcenter i cant help but pick up another one every time i go there |
| 11:00 |
| 11:00:31 | DarkSpectrum | lol i even have a player glued to my monitor and use rockbox instead of winamp or anything else while on my computer :) |
| 11:02:25 | DarkSpectrum | ok to install that FS #9955 bootloader do i do the, "hold on, hold REC while powering on" and copy the .mi4 over to the emergency boot thing? |
| 11:02:28 | martian67 | DarkSpectrum, you may be interested to know rockbox can function as a remote while its plugged in |
| 11:03:13 | DarkSpectrum | yeah i saw that, but why bother, rockbox beats any audio media player anyway |
| 11:03:42 | martian67 | because losing the abillity to mix audio on your pc kinda sucks |
| 11:03:45 | martian67 | :) |
| 11:04:15 | DarkSpectrum | naw, i have c200 going to the line-in and back out to my normal speakers, so i can mix all i want :) |
| 11:06:17 | blippe | martian67: oh, remote you say... how? |
| 11:06:37 | martian67 | blippe, a recentish build, plug it in |
| 11:06:54 | martian67 | its play/forward/back/pause/etc buttons |
| 11:07:02 | martian67 | map to keyboard multimedia keys |
| 11:07:06 | DarkSpectrum | ok i'm confused, where are the docs for sansapatcher? |
| 11:07:27 | blippe | AlexP: seems as if port 17 (reserved) is used to power the itrip.. gonna try to short 17 and +3.3V and hope for the best... |
| 11:07:27 | martian67 | oh also volume |
| 11:07:41 | blippe | martian67: win or lin? |
| 11:07:47 | martian67 | either it dosent matter |
| 11:07:53 | martian67 | its emulating a usb keyboard |
| 11:07:59 | blippe | martian67: great, gonne check it out... |
| 11:08:05 | martian67 | you just have to have those keys mapped to do something on your system |
| 11:08:16 | martian67 | mine control foobar2000 :3 |
| 11:08:59 | blippe | martian67: foobar is the only thing i miss from windows. But i miss tons of stuff from linux on win, therefore: "portable ubuntu"... :D |
| 11:09:05 | DarkSpectrum | windows |
| 11:09:09 | AlexP | Let's stay on topic chaps |
| 11:09:12 | | Join _lifeless [0] (n=lifeless@188.16.87.235) |
| 11:09:17 | blippe | AlexP: sorry |
| 11:09:22 | AlexP | no problem :) |
| 11:09:46 | martian67 | blippe, foobar runs 100% fine in wine |
| 11:09:48 | martian67 | jfyi |
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| 11:21:04 | DarkSpectrum | could somone please help me find the docs for sansapatcher for windows? |
| 11:21:08 | DarkSpectrum | someone* |
| 11:21:41 | linuxstb | Run "sansapatcher −−help" - that's probably all the docs there are... |
| 11:23:01 | DarkSpectrum | ty |
| 11:23:22 | DarkSpectrum | i'm trying to figure out how to apply FS #9955 to my Sansa C240 |
| 11:23:35 | | Nick zitune[afk] is now known as zitune (n=zitune@bearstech/zitune) |
| 11:25:09 | linuxstb | Copy sansapatcher.exe and firmware.mi4 to the same directory, and then run "sansapatcher -a firmware.mi4" |
| 11:25:37 | GodEater | assuming you've already built the new firmware.mi4 that is... |
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| 11:26:51 | linuxstb | GodEater: firmware.mi4 is attached to 9955 |
| 11:27:00 | * | linuxstb sees that bluebrother has broken sansapatcher... :( |
| 11:28:22 | GodEater | linuxstb: so it's not actually a patch then |
| 11:29:26 | linuxstb | GodEater: No, doesn't seem to be... |
| 11:29:50 | GodEater | silly me for assuming it was =/ |
| 11:30:10 | linuxstb | Blame rasher... |
| 11:30:11 | DarkSpectrum | how do i go about installing it then, i do not use sansapatcher? |
| 11:30:21 | linuxstb | DarkSpectrum: I just told you how to install it... |
| 11:30:40 | GodEater | you also said sansapatcher was broken ;) |
| 11:30:44 | DarkSpectrum | ok.. got confused again for a second |
| 11:30:57 | * | GodEater can understand DarkSpectrum's confusion in that case |
| 11:31:08 | AlexP | I assume svn sansapatcher is broken, not the already released executable |
| 11:31:09 | linuxstb | GodEater: Yes, that's confusing... But DarkSpectrum can just use the latest released sansapatcher.exe |
| 11:31:18 | linuxstb | And yes, I'm talking about current svn. |
| 11:31:26 | GodEater | AlexP: yes, I assume that too, but DarkSpectrum can be forgiven for not following |
| 11:31:34 | AlexP | GodEater: Indeed he can |
| 11:31:40 | AlexP | All is forgiven :) |
| 11:31:44 | * | linuxstb forgives DarkSpectrum |
| 11:31:55 | DarkSpectrum | lol ty |
| 11:33:51 | DarkSpectrum | kinda off topic, any future plans for WPS to support more then one font at a time? |
| 11:34:05 | * | rasher will accept no blame! |
| 11:34:08 | Torne | it's one of those things that's on the "would be nice" list |
| 11:34:18 | Torne | people have looked at it, there are patches. |
| 11:34:29 | rasher | There's no category for "vanilla builds of rockbox (bootloaders)" |
| 11:34:30 | AlexP | DarkSpectrum: That's on topic IMO |
| 11:34:31 | FrankTM | Torne: is that the same list as "feel free to write"? |
| 11:34:41 | Torne | FrankTM: hehe |
| 11:34:44 | Torne | well someone already did write it |
| 11:34:48 | DarkSpectrum | patch would be nice but i don't want to make a WPS that wouldnt be offically supported |
| 11:34:49 | GodEater | it's Mr. Someone's "TODO" list |
| 11:35:01 | FrankTM | ahh. |
| 11:35:05 | Torne | DarkSpectrum: a lot of the unofficial builds on the forum have the multifont patch |
| 11:35:07 | AlexP | DarkSpectrum: And it is wanted I think, it is just the existing patch doesn't do it properly, and nobody has written it to do it as it should |
| 11:35:09 | FrankTM | i've been redirected to that a couple of time |
| 11:35:11 | GodEater | which, incidentally, got still longer at DevCon |
| 11:35:13 | FrankTM | +s |
| 11:35:25 | linuxstb | rasher: Also, was the version number incremented in the binaries, and did you make a note of the revision number? i.e. can we release those binaries as they are, or do they need rebuilding as releases? |
| 11:35:33 | DarkSpectrum | AlexP: maybe i'll look into modifying it |
| 11:35:36 | * | Torne needs multifont support to port frotz properly so would quite like it too :) |
| 11:36:22 | AlexP | DarkSpectrum: That'd be great - I'd bring it up on the mailing list first to find out how people would like it done so you don't potentially wate loads of time doing it the wrong way |
| 11:36:26 | GodEater | frotz needs multiple fonts ??? |
| 11:36:30 | rasher | linuxstb: unfortunately no, I didn't. |
| 11:36:39 | DarkSpectrum | good idea |
| 11:36:42 | Torne | GodEater: it's not mandatory but the z-machine has four hypothetical fonts |
| 11:36:55 | Torne | one of which is unknown ;) |
| 11:36:57 | GodEater | I've never seen a z-machine games which uses them then. |
| 11:37:01 | GodEater | I'm bewildered |
| 11:37:09 | Torne | quite a few infocom games use the graphics font |
| 11:37:10 | GodEater | and probably I've been chewed on by a grue |
| 11:37:13 | Torne | to draw runes or maps and stuff |
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| 11:37:14 | linuxstb | rasher: Under the GPL I request the source for those bootloaders... ;) |
| 11:37:15 | rasher | linuxstb: so we'd probably want a new round of builds anyway |
| 11:37:23 | DarkSpectrum | i hope noone is allready working on it, i've wanted a project to do besides making themes, and this is something i'd really want myself |
| 11:37:26 | * | rasher hands linuxstb a git checkout |
| 11:37:38 | * | linuxstb doesn't want it that much |
| 11:37:43 | * | GodEater wishes DarkSpectrum much luck |
| 11:37:44 | Torne | almost all z-machine games use two fonts: fixed pitch for the top window, proportional for the bottom window |
| 11:37:46 | | Quit cool_walking_ () |
| 11:37:57 | GodEater | Torne: shows my eye for detail then eh ? :) |
| 11:38:06 | Torne | but i can do that without multifont if you pick a proportional font that vaguely matches sysfont in size |
| 11:38:16 | AlexP | DarkSpectrum: I don't think they are, and go for it! |
| 11:38:34 | Torne | GodEater: unless you played lots of the original Infocom games you may not have noticed the graphics font :) inform games are unlikely to use it |
| 11:38:39 | DarkSpectrum | arent the GFX just extended ascii ? |
| 11:38:49 | DarkSpectrum | 127-254? |
| 11:38:51 | Torne | no |
| 11:38:54 | GodEater | Torne: I think the original Zork is the only one I played. |
| 11:39:02 | GodEater | It was so hard it didn't inspire me to try any others |
| 11:39:03 | Torne | 127-254 are used for accents to support european languages |
| 11:39:11 | Torne | it switches to a different font entirely for fake gfx |
| 11:39:18 | DarkSpectrum | huh |
| 11:39:32 | Torne | btw my frotz port runs, kinda |
| 11:39:45 | Torne | i haven't implemented read_line yet but i can input characters by mapping buttons to particular keys |
| 11:39:54 | Torne | which lets me run some of the z-machine spec compliance tests with good results |
| 11:40:02 | Torne | scrolling is very veyr very slow though, i need to seriously optimise it :) |
| 11:40:15 | DarkSpectrum | zork on RB would rule if there was a good way to do it |
| 11:40:38 | Torne | well i'm working on it |
| 11:40:48 | DarkSpectrum | AWSOME!!! |
| 11:40:57 | Torne | i'll do what i can to implement a nicer UI after i have the zmachine running properly |
| 11:41:19 | linuxstb | Torne: So how many different things are you working on? |
| 11:41:28 | Torne | linuxstb: for rockbox, pretty much just this atm |
| 11:41:41 | Torne | but i'm also doing two or three other projects for myself |
| 11:41:43 | * | GodEater doesn't want to try to use the virtual keyboard to play zork. I hope others will like it though. |
| 11:41:45 | Torne | and contributing to two or three othe rplaces |
| 11:41:47 | Torne | and having a job. :) |
| 11:41:49 | DarkSpectrum | how are you going to get around typing out what you want to do? |
| 11:42:11 | Torne | DarkSpectrum: command lists, pick-from-screen typing, and just suffering nad having to type out what you want to do. |
| 11:42:23 | Torne | it's not going to be particularly comfortable but I can probably do a bit better than the naieve implementaiton |
| 11:42:23 | | Quit kugel (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 11:42:24 | DarkSpectrum | have a scrollable multiple choice or something? |
| 11:42:26 | DarkSpectrum | ahhh |
| 11:42:37 | Torne | the main intention is to support games specifically written with limited input in mind |
| 11:42:47 | Torne | but it will be a generic zmachine interpreter and thus can run any other zmachine game too |
| 11:42:53 | linuxstb | Torne: Sorry, I was confusing frotz with frodo, and thought you were also porting a C64 emulator... |
| 11:42:58 | Torne | ah. no. |
| 11:43:05 | Torne | c64 is not my scene ;) |
| 11:43:16 | DarkSpectrum | sweet, i allready have a huge ZM dat collection |
| 11:43:33 | Torne | naughty |
| 11:43:44 | Torne | we do not talk about having copied infocom's games. :) |
| 11:43:53 | Torne | (you can still buy many of them) |
| 11:44:03 | DarkSpectrum | lol i have bought them |
| 11:44:20 | Torne | oh. sorry, i ay hav emisunderstood 'dat' :) |
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| 11:44:28 | DarkSpectrum | i've been playing zork since `83 on my first PC-XT |
| 11:44:37 | Torne | anyway. yah. the majority of games will not be particularly fun to play |
| 11:44:41 | Torne | but they *will work* |
| 11:44:48 | Torne | at least, games in z5 format |
| 11:44:56 | Torne | assuming you have a player with large ram |
| 11:45:16 | Torne | z8 is too big to fit in the plugin buffer even on 64mb targets |
| 11:45:20 | DarkSpectrum | i have no idea what's in the C2xx and E2xx's |
| 11:45:23 | | Quit CIA-70 () |
| 11:45:42 | Torne | me either. you need a 512kb plugin buffer for my frotzbox at the moment |
| 11:46:04 | Torne | it could be done in a lot less memory if I implemented swapping like the original zmachine interpreters used to but tha would make it a battery-life-sucker |
| 11:46:18 | DarkSpectrum | should work, i havent seen a plugin that hasent worked on them yet, except the mpeg player, runs too slow |
| 11:46:26 | | Part ironi |
| 11:46:28 | Torne | if lua runs then frotzbox will |
| 11:48:20 | DarkSpectrum | no idea, havent played with it yet |
| 11:49:10 | Torne | yes, c2xx/e2xx will work |
| 11:49:13 | Torne | at leas tin theory |
| 11:49:17 | Torne | i've only tested it on ipodvideo |
| 11:49:33 | Torne | when i've got a finished first iteration i'll post the code for people and you can try it |
| 11:49:47 | DarkSpectrum | can't wait :) |
| 11:50:01 | Torne | sadly you will have to, as noted above i am perpetually doing ten things at once ;) |
| 11:50:46 | DarkSpectrum | hey late is better then naver ;P |
| 11:50:51 | DarkSpectrum | never* |
| 11:51:01 | DarkSpectrum | any thanks in advance to you also :) |
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| 11:53:09 | linuxstb | Torne: BTW, we're all fed up with plugins called rock* or *box ;) If it's a port of frotz, just call it frotz... |
| 11:53:18 | Torne | Hehe |
| 11:53:19 | Torne | alright |
| 11:53:29 | Torne | i'll rename it later :) |
| 11:55:54 | DarkSpectrum | oh hey i saw that for GSoC they are working on WMA-Pro is that going to include WMA-Voice also? |
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| 11:56:54 | linuxstb | No, WMA Pro wasn't an accepted project. |
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| 11:57:13 | DarkSpectrum | oh |
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| 12:00 |
| 12:00:25 | GodEater | Torne: does your work have an FS # yet ? |
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| 12:05:08 | Torne | GodEater: no, i was going to wait until i had a bit more. |
| 12:05:26 | Torne | posting a patch atm would be very tedious as i change it rather a lot :) |
| 12:05:27 | GodEater | Torne: bad developer. bad. Put it in now! |
| 12:05:38 | Torne | aww |
| 12:05:48 | Torne | with a patch? |
| 12:05:55 | GodEater | ideally |
| 12:06:02 | Torne | i could link my bzr loom :) |
| 12:06:15 | GodEater | nothing stopping you doing that too in the comments |
| 12:06:30 | Torne | not that anyone would be able to use it, i expect :) |
| 12:06:34 | * | GodEater goes to work out if he a) has bzr installed, and b) how the hell to use it. |
| 12:06:34 | Torne | loom is weird |
| 12:06:42 | Torne | loom is not a standard bzr branch either |
| 12:06:58 | GodEater | why not use git like a sane person ? :) |
| 12:06:59 | Torne | i have all the pahces i use as threads on the loom so if you pull the whole thing you get a bunch of other FS# as well ;) |
| 12:07:08 | Torne | because i find git horrendously difficult to use |
| 12:07:14 | Torne | whereas bzr is made of delicious wonderfulness |
| 12:07:22 | Torne | also it's written in python so when it breaks i cna fix it easily :) |
| 12:07:38 | Torne | bzr can do svn interoperation just as well as git, so hey |
| 12:08:13 | Torne | hm, actually, if i'm gonna post a patch there are some tidyups i need to do |
| 12:08:37 | Torne | what's the policy on formatting/copyright notices/etc for files which are substantially just lifted from another suitably licenced project? |
| 12:08:54 | Torne | frotz's code is hilariously old and every file is indented differently :) |
| 12:08:55 | | Quit kugel_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 12:09:36 | GodEater | for plugins we don't care so much about the formatting |
| 12:09:47 | linuxstb | Torne: I think generally, if the code is taken from somewhere else, follow the existing style in that file. Is frotz still being developed? |
| 12:09:47 | GodEater | the code has to be GPL compatible though |
| 12:10:00 | Torne | GodEater: yah, iirc it's BSD, i did check this up front |
| 12:10:05 | Torne | or MIT |
| 12:10:14 | Torne | i'll double check it befor ei post it anywhere |
| 12:10:30 | linuxstb | According to this, it's GPL'd - http://frotz.sourceforge.net/ |
| 12:10:37 | Torne | linuxstb: it's not had a release for a very long time, but it's technically alive |
| 12:10:48 | Torne | ah, ok then |
| 12:12:20 | linuxstb | Torne: I guess it's up to you - the obvious downside of reformatting would be that it would be harder to sync changes. |
| 12:12:40 | Torne | i'm unlikely to sync many, i have to say |
| 12:12:45 | Torne | the last release was 10 months ago |
| 12:13:11 | Torne | i might leave the files nicked from the core alone, but reformat the bits from dumbfrotz as i've rewritten half of that anyway |
| 12:13:22 | Torne | the core stuff is supposed to be platform independant so needs very few changes to build for rockbox |
| 12:13:28 | linuxstb | Sounds sensible. |
| 12:13:56 | Torne | ok. i'll do that, rename it to just 'frotz', do something sensible with copyright/license notices |
| 12:14:03 | Torne | and post a pathc of what i have so far on flyspray later sometime :) |
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| 14:21:34 | MarcGuay | My favourite part of DevCon is all of the photos of scorche looking glum. |
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| 14:34:31 | webguest31 | Could we have names/nicks at one of the group pics? |
| 14:35:20 | funman | webguest31: have you seen http://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2009/06/21/rockbox-devcon-2009-summary/ ? |
| 14:36:04 | webguest31 | Ahh, missed that. Thanks. |
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| 14:40:37 | FrankTM | funman: nerd alert :+ |
| 14:41:05 | funman | yes it didn't pass my nerd filtering ^^ |
| 14:41:16 | FrankTM | nfi :) |
| 14:41:39 | funman | gevaerts: is MeizuM6Port up to date ? (no lcd support) |
| 14:41:41 | FrankTM | wtf |
| 14:42:00 | gevaerts | funman: the M3 has lcd, the M6 not yet |
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| 14:45:49 | Blue_Dude | linuxstb: I just posted a belated reply to FS #10366. |
| 14:46:14 | linuxstb | Blue_Dude: It's not belated - I'm assuming we're in different timezones... |
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| 14:46:47 | Blue_Dude | I'm on EDT, and I finally turned in last night at 2am. |
| 14:46:54 | Blue_Dude | GMT -4. |
| 14:46:58 | linuxstb | What other file are you talking about? |
| 14:47:02 | linuxstb | I'm GMT+1 |
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| 14:47:21 | Blue_Dude | I originally cribbed the code from playback.c. |
| 14:47:55 | Blue_Dude | And cut it down to make better sense in other files. |
| 14:48:54 | LambdaCalculus37 | IIRC the plugin API has changed a while back, and I kind of missed out on what the significant changes were. Can someone clue me in quickly on the changes? |
| 14:50:09 | LambdaCalculus37 | Also, I need to look for where the keymaps for each player are kept now. From the look of things (or maybe I'm looking in the wrong place), the #define's are not in the plugin main sources anymore. |
| 14:50:10 | Torne | how long do you mean by a while? |
| 14:50:28 | LambdaCalculus37 | Torne: A while as in a couple of months. |
| 14:50:31 | Torne | one thing that was done a while ago is that the rb pointer is provided and initialised automatically.. |
| 14:50:46 | linuxstb | Blue_Dude: Ah, I was wondering where the name LOGFQUEUE came from. It seems to be used in playback.c to log messages posted to queues, so that name doesn't really make sense elsewhere. |
| 14:50:48 | Torne | that was the only thing that caused me a problem updating the plugin i was working on :) |
| 14:51:29 | Blue_Dude | Ah, I was thinking that it QUEUEs log messages for display. My bad. |
| 14:51:43 | Blue_Dude | I'll go back and patch the patches. |
| 15:00 |
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| 15:02:10 | MarcGuay | LambdaCalculus37: Some plugins use the "plugin lib actions" business... Others have them in their main C file... Changes to the API, beats me.. I know you used to have to create your own reference to rb-> but now it's automatic.. |
| 15:03:30 | LambdaCalculus37 | MarcGuay: That's what I was thinking of. Thanks. :) |
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| 15:12:13 | Blue_Dude | linuxstb: I posted a patch that should fix all three files. |
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| 15:32:18 | Torne | what *is* the best practise re plugin button mapping? |
| 15:32:30 | Torne | i read somewhere that pluginlib actions is deprecated or at least advised against |
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| 15:35:45 | | Quit kugel (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 15:36:17 | rasher | Unless the controls are very simple, PLA is likely more trouble than it's worth |
| 15:40:04 | lilltiger | hmm im looking at the SansaAMS page and it says that all but USB and recording should be working on the Fuze V1, does that mean that it actually works well on this device? |
| 15:41:47 | gevaerts | from what I understand, it works reasonably well. Depending on capacity there may still be bugs in the storage driver though (unless I'm misremembering) |
| 15:42:06 | LambdaCalculus37 | gevaerts: There are some bugs remaining IIRC. |
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| 15:42:27 | lilltiger | I have 8GB internal and 8GB external for it |
| 15:42:27 | LambdaCalculus37 | But we should ask funman and kugel, since they're the ones doing all the dirty work. |
| 15:42:35 | gevaerts | LambdaCalculus37: I said "reasonably well" :) |
| 15:43:17 | LambdaCalculus37 | lilltiger: I would not really recommend using the port just yet. While music playback is reasonably stable, the storage driver bugs may cause big issues. |
| 15:43:54 | LambdaCalculus37 | The front page will reflect when the port is ready to be used for everyday purposes. Right now, it's best left for developers to continue bug squashing. |
| 15:45:28 | lilltiger | LambdaCalculus37: someone should add an note about it to the "http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SansaAMS" as there is it would seem that there was no isses with it. |
| 15:47:32 | LambdaCalculus37 | lilltiger: I'll revise it when I get a chance. |
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| 15:48:29 | lilltiger | cos imo the fuze is an awsome player, the only issue with it is the uglyness of the interface ;) |
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| 15:51:07 | LambdaCalculus37 | lilltiger: Gotta give it time, though. Remember, we haven't got the ability to just hire robots to code for us all day, otherwise we'd all be sitting back on the beach of some tropical island, sipping exotic drinks, and be surrounded by beautiful women while the robots work and toil and speak for us on IRC. |
| 15:51:20 | funman | lilltiger: just read the requirements for release |
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| 15:51:48 | gevaerts | funman: details are in flux right now :) |
| 15:52:21 | funman | i meant the "requirements for release" section of SansaAMS wiki page |
| 15:52:33 | gevaerts | ah yes... |
| 15:52:36 | lilltiger | funman: i did, but it dident say much :) and the chart implied that all was fine, thats was why i asked |
| 15:53:11 | funman | all is fine, except the bugs :/ |
| 15:54:18 | lilltiger | funman: yes, but as the chart dident say any general problem for the V1 i had no way to know if the corruption/deadlock bug was related to the fuze v1 or not, so i askt :p |
| 15:55:24 | GodEater | I thought we decided at devcon that the AMS (and particularly the fuze v1) was going to become "supported" ? |
| 15:55:53 | gevaerts | GodEater: as soon as there are no potentially player-bricking bugs left |
| 15:56:06 | funman | lilltiger: generally if the port isn't supported, these informations are for developers |
| 15:56:19 | LambdaCalculus37 | gevaerts: Which I think there are few last ones to squash, right? |
| 15:56:35 | GodEater | gevaerts: I got the impression from kugel that such a possiblity was extremely remote on the fuze now ? |
| 15:56:56 | funman | GodEater: gevaerts, there is no risk of bricking provided bootloaders are tested, but all the Sansa AMS suffer from storage corruption so i'm against it |
| 15:57:16 | funman | of course once this is fixed, no problem :) |
| 15:57:18 | gevaerts | GodEater: it has sd corruption, and IIRC no always-working unbrick method |
| 15:57:24 | GodEater | fair enough |
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| 15:57:47 | gevaerts | so you *probably* won't have serious issues, but if you do, they are bad |
| 15:57:49 | funman | only the e200v2 can be recovered, and that involves opening the case |
| 15:58:15 | lilltiger | funman: ok, im used to use dev code and compile it myself on my puter, so i have an habit of checking the dev code. Guess it's a bad idea for mp3 players :) |
| 15:58:37 | Torne | only for mp3 players you want to keep using ;) |
| 15:58:55 | gevaerts | lilltiger: it depends. Some have *very* good recovery mechanisms |
| 15:59:37 | funman | lilltiger: i must say now the risk of bricking is very low if you don't mess with mkamsboot, but rockbox isn't just usable right now |
| 16:00 |
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| 16:02:38 | lilltiger | what does the bricking cause that makes it unrecovable, ruining the bootloader i guess, but couldent the custom bootloader start with setting an bit, thats says something like, bootup failed, and then reset it at the end of the bootup. So if it fails while booting the bit will be set and it will fallback on the org bootloader. |
| 16:03:00 | lilltiger | or does bricking imply something else then just an corrupt bootloader? |
| 16:04:01 | funman | a corrupted bootloader won't brick your player, because the dualboot is implemented in mkamsboot |
| 16:04:20 | funman | you could use /dev/urandom as a bootloader and still be able to boot the OF |
| 16:04:27 | lilltiger | ahh ok |
| 16:06:09 | funman | I added a red note about storage on the page |
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| 16:06:43 | lilltiger | funman: good alot clearer now |
| 16:07:10 | funman | thanks for suggesting ;) |
| 16:07:27 | lilltiger | always happy to help with the important stuff :p |
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| 16:09:44 | lilltiger | funman: but what is corrupted when the fuze gets bricked, as you have an costum bootloader already in place, couldent that bootloader reload an working firware in case of failur? |
| 16:10:31 | funman | corrupted means that your player will not be functional and you have to format the partition |
| 16:11:31 | lilltiger | funman: i ment for the bricking issues, as the sansa dosent include it's own unbricking i was thinking if there is a way for rockbox to implement it |
| 16:11:51 | GodEater | if it's bricked, it cannot run rockbox by definition |
| 16:11:57 | GodEater | it cannot run *anything* |
| 16:11:57 | funman | you're confused i think |
| 16:12:20 | lilltiger | bricked can imply alot of things, all from broken booloader , broken firware etc. |
| 16:12:26 | funman | if you want to brick your player you can, but not with rockbox |
| 16:14:15 | gevaerts | funman: can't the sd corruption make it overwrite the bootloader area? |
| 16:14:41 | lilltiger | funman: i dont want to brick it, i was thinking about the possibilaty to implement an safeguard to recover from bugs that bricks the player |
| 16:17:41 | funman | gevaerts: i don't think so since we don't read or write to this area |
| 16:18:01 | funman | lilltiger: mkamsboot is that safeguard |
| 16:18:24 | gevaerts | funman: ah, ok. That's good to know |
| 16:18:38 | lilltiger | funman: ahh ok :) so only thing that can brick it is bugs in mkasmboot i guess? |
| 16:19:31 | lilltiger | cos hopefully nothing else access that memory with the ability to write to it.. ;D |
| 16:19:44 | funman | lilltiger: yes, or like gevaerts mentioned a bug in rockbox which would overwrite the OF area (and there's nothing we can do here) |
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| 16:21:34 | lilltiger | funman: ohh so the bootloader/firmware is on the same memory module as the "software" hehe thats quite a bad hardware design :) |
| 16:21:56 | Torne | ok, i made a FS# for my frotz port, with a patch that actually builds and can run a z-machine compliance test program, at least on ipodvideo (not mapped buttons for other targets) :) |
| 16:22:08 | Torne | FS #10370 |
| 16:24:34 | Torne | now it just needs line input, and to be less horrendously slow at scrolling, and it might almost be possible to run a game |
| 16:27:05 | | Quit tvelocity (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 16:28:44 | linuxstb | Torne: Does the compliance test succeed? |
| 16:28:53 | Torne | mostly |
| 16:28:59 | linuxstb | So, "no" ? ;) |
| 16:29:05 | Torne | mostly it reports "the interpreter says FOO is not supported" |
| 16:29:07 | Torne | which is valid :) |
| 16:29:15 | Torne | but it should eventually support those things |
| 16:29:21 | Torne | e.g. colour |
| 16:29:36 | Torne | hilariously the main thing that goes wrong is because the compliance test is not compliant to the spec |
| 16:29:46 | Torne | it tries to set the cursor position without checking that the screen is wide enough |
| 16:29:53 | Torne | and ends up overwriting some of its own output :) |
| 16:30:04 | Torne | presumably nobody ran it on such a narrow display before |
| 16:30:11 | linuxstb | Where is this compliance test from? |
| 16:30:15 | Torne | the frotz source |
| 16:30:17 | Torne | or the ifarchive |
| 16:30:43 | Torne | it's not very exciting/meaningful to someone who hasn't read the z-machine spec, tbh :) |
| 16:30:51 | Torne | it only tests a few things |
| 16:31:09 | Torne | but all the basics should Just Work as frotz's core is basically unmodified, it's only the text output stuff that i've written |
| 16:32:13 | Torne | i don't recommend trying to run other z-machine programs because there's no exit button |
| 16:32:24 | Torne | so if it turns out you don't have the right keys mapped to cause the program to exit voluntarily you will have to hardreset :) |
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| 16:42:01 | lazka | anyone here with a sansa fuze + sd card? |
| 16:42:50 | | Join dfkt [0] (i=dfkt@unaffiliated/dfkt) |
| 16:43:06 | lazka | I need to know if the sd card gets mounted as a seperate disk (e.g. in linux) |
| 16:43:21 | funman | lazka: it is, but this a bit offtopic :) |
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| 16:44:55 | lazka | thanks very much.. that explains the second not working hal device.. |
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| 16:54:17 | Jaykay | i asked this a few months ago but forgot the answer... |
| 16:54:40 | Jaykay | why do we (you) deprecate strings in lang files instead of deleting them? |
| 16:55:05 | gevaerts | because if you remove a string halfway, older voicefiles stop working properly |
| 16:55:39 | | Quit d3v14710n () |
| 16:56:08 | Jaykay | so if you remove all deprecated strings and create new voice files everything is fine? |
| 16:57:06 | gevaerts | not really. Lots of people make their own voice files |
| 16:57:19 | gevaerts | so we try to avoid breaking them too often |
| 16:57:22 | rasher | Yes, but then *everyone* will have to make new voice files. And there's no real gain. |
| 17:00 |
| 17:02:47 | Jaykay | will voice files be broken too if you would delete deprecated strings which where also deprecated when the voice file was created? |
| 17:02:47 | lilltiger | lazka: not working? my sansa fuze works flawless in linux registring the microSD as an removable vfat disk |
| 17:03:38 | rasher | Jaykay: Yes |
| 17:04:05 | Jaykay | rasher: can you explain why? |
| 17:04:15 | rasher | There's really no use in deleting them. It would shave a few bytes off language files and voice files, but that's it. |
| 17:04:22 | | Quit ocean (Ping timeout: 180 seconds) |
| 17:04:28 | rasher | Jaykay: Because the order of clips in the files would be different from what rockbox expects |
| 17:04:52 | lazka | lilltiger, never mind.. I'm fixing a bug in a media player which doesn't work right with the fuze.. and the cause is the sd slot |
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| 17:06:26 | Jaykay | rasher: i didn't ask you to delete them, i was curious :) and thanks |
| 17:06:55 | gevaerts | Jaykay: basically each string gets an id, and removing a string changes the numbering |
| 17:12:47 | domonoky | the real problem is that voicefile dont really map the voice entry to the lang entry. It just expects them to be in the same order as the lang file. (thats also why we get wrong voice entrys when a lang files gets changed) |
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| 17:14:02 | Jaykay | so sorting would also break voice files |
| 17:15:02 | Jaykay | sorry, that should be a question :) |
| 17:15:11 | domonoky | yes |
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| 17:15:16 | rasher | Yes (but only the english language file, since that's the order that gets used when compiling) |
| 17:15:32 | rasher | Other translations can be in any order |
| 17:16:29 | GodEater | anyone have any ideas on this one ? http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=21891.0 |
| 17:16:32 | | Join Lss [0] (n=Lss@cm33.zeta237.maxonline.com.sg) |
| 17:17:03 | domonoky | also adding a new string in the middle of english lang makes it break.. the voicefile system could need some improvements :-) |
| 17:17:20 | rasher | domonoky: I think the fix is "don't do that" |
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| 17:18:05 | domonoky | the real fix would be to make some header to the voice file to really map them to the lang file, and that we are able to detect when they wont fit anymore. |
| 17:19:03 | rasher | I'm not convinced the current situation is so bad |
| 17:20:13 | Jaykay | domonoky: is it a "problem" of rockbox or of... something else? |
| 17:20:52 | domonoky | i think its bad, that we are not able to detect when a voicefile wont fix anymore. |
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| 17:21:26 | domonoky | rockbox could play some "voicefile invalid" thing and rbutil could inform the user to generate a new one. |
| 17:21:41 | domonoky | s/fix/fit. |
| 17:22:22 | Llorean | GodEater: My guess - cable's bad. It sounds like it's treating a USB port like a charger, which may just mean the data bit is cut but the power bit isn't. |
| 17:22:52 | GodEater | Llorean: you already told him that didn't you? I'll reiterate it. |
| 17:23:49 | Llorean | Well, I *just* told him that, yeah. |
| 17:24:06 | Llorean | In his case, with a c250, replacing the player might actually be the same price as buying a cable on its own though. |
| 17:24:54 | GodEater | he might get a v2 though ;) |
| 17:25:57 | | Quit Chesteta (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 17:26:05 | gevaerts | we need more people who have a c200v2 anyway :) |
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| 17:41:31 | Jaykay | can someone explain "Set PCM buffer size to what is actually needed." to me? especially what pcm buffer is |
| 17:41:46 | lilltiger | GodEater: he could try to start up his puter with an linux live cd and check what info it gives about the device connected to the usb port |
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| 17:43:01 | Llorean | Jaykay: The PCM buffer is what holds music after it's decoded, but before it's played. |
| 17:43:30 | Llorean | It mainly helps make sure that if decoding takes a little longer than expected (high CPU-cost chunks in VBR files, or when the disk is just spinning up to rebuffer) there are no skips or gaps |
| 17:44:12 | Jaykay | so this is the audio buffer and should be as big as possible right? |
| 17:44:22 | Llorean | No. |
| 17:44:41 | Llorean | It should be as small as we can make it without impairing its functionality. |
| 17:44:49 | Llorean | As I said, it's for *after* it's decoded. |
| 17:45:13 | Llorean | The compressed buffer is the one that should be as large as possible. |
| 17:45:25 | Llorean | Both of them contain audio, just in different forms, so it's better to avoid calling either of them "the audio buffer" |
| 17:46:05 | gevaerts | yes, but one of the is called that everywhere anywa |
| 17:46:12 | gevaerts | y |
| 17:46:21 | Llorean | gevaerts: Yeah, the compressed one. |
| 17:46:57 | Llorean | "compressed" isn't even always accurate anyway |
| 17:47:08 | Llorean | since you can buffer WAV or AIFF uncompressed formats. |
| 17:47:15 | Jaykay | is there anything else besides rockbox itself, the compressed one and pcm buffer in ram? |
| 17:47:24 | lilltiger | the PCM buffer is an device buffer, is it should be named device audio buffer if mentioned :) |
| 17:47:34 | Llorean | lilltiger: What do you mean "device buffer"? |
| 17:47:56 | Llorean | Jaykay: Could you clarify, there's some grammar difficulty at the end of that sentence that makes you unsure what you mean. |
| 17:47:57 | gevaerts | Jaykay: sure. plugin buffer, codec buffer, and various other things that get enabled by certain options |
| 17:47:59 | lilltiger | Llorean: and buffer that is derectly used by an hardware device, like the PCM |
| 17:48:42 | Llorean | lilltiger: There's no device called "the PCM." PCM is a way of representing audio data as digital data, and the PCM buffer is just a portion of RAM we set aside for holding PCM formatted audio (which is what you get after decoding the compressed audio) |
| 17:49:37 | Jaykay | what does the codec buffer contain? a "description" how to decode the data in the compressed buffer? |
| 17:49:50 | lilltiger | Llorean: ahh sorry, i just assumed rockbox handled it like linux does, guess not then |
| 17:50:18 | Llorean | Jaykay: It contains the codec in use. |
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| 17:58:41 | rasher | So, does anyone think FS #10093 is a bad idea? Apart from the fact that it sadly doesn't and can't work for themes? |
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| 18:00 |
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| 18:01:19 | kugel | rasher: re dirfilter=0, what if you browse fonts using the filebrowser? |
| 18:02:09 | kugel | I think it's a nice addition |
| 18:02:58 | rasher | kugel: Then SHOW_FONT won't be set |
| 18:03:18 | kugel | ah yea, that makes sense |
| 18:04:15 | rasher | Something tells me this could be done in a simpler way, but I can't really figure out how |
| 18:04:23 | Llorean | rasher: I like it a lot |
| 18:04:25 | kugel | just remove the DEBUGF before committing :P |
| 18:04:32 | rasher | kugel: yeah, just noticed that |
| 18:04:36 | | Join AndyI [0] (n=pasha_in@212.14.208.235) |
| 18:04:38 | Llorean | It basically makes fonts, etc, appear to be identical to settings. |
| 18:04:59 | | Quit Lss (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 18:05:01 | kugel | I think it could work for themes, storing the filename in nvram.bin or something |
| 18:05:24 | Llorean | kugel: Except you'd need to reset it if *any* theme related setting changed anyway |
| 18:05:35 | | Quit einhirn ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") |
| 18:05:39 | Llorean | Since you can set font color, .wps, font, backdrop, etc independently of theme.cfg |
| 18:05:59 | Llorean | A theme is just "the last loaded .cfg file" really |
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| 18:06:21 | rasher | Maybe "Browse fonts" should be changed to just "Font". This should also make it somewhat more obvious why Browse themes behaves differently |
| 18:06:34 | Llorean | rasher: That's probably a good thing to go with it yeah. |
| 18:07:10 | kugel | well, I can imagine that a) you don't obfuscate the theme enough to make it count as a different one, or b) you are quite happy to see which it was based off if you obfuscated it |
| 18:08:10 | kugel | not much of an issue though, I think |
| 18:08:38 | Llorean | Or c) you're a user who doesn't understand themes are just .cfg files and file a bug report saying "Why does it say my currently selected theme is "Cabbiev2" when I selected the BlackMP.wps last week from 'browse WPS'"? |
| 18:09:13 | kugel | I don't think he'll be aware of the last phrase |
| 18:09:15 | Llorean | I think for .cfg files (themes, and settings groups) it's better just to make sure the user knows they're browsing a file, and for things like Fonts where they really don't need to know it's a file, drop the "Browse" keyword since it's irrelevant. |
| 18:09:27 | kugel | the bug report will more be like "Why does it say my currently selected theme is "Cabbiev2"" |
| 18:10:12 | * | rasher will also change "Browse Themes" to "Browse Theme Files" |
| 18:10:17 | kugel | on the other hand, users may also report a bug on "Why isn't the theme I loaded selected" |
| 18:10:57 | Llorean | rasher: if WPS, RWPS or FM Presets have "Browse" it should probably be dropped there too |
| 18:11:25 | | Nick zitune is now known as zitune[afk] (n=zitune@bearstech/zitune) |
| 18:11:35 | Llorean | rasher: "Browse theme configs" maybe? |
| 18:11:48 | Llorean | Or "Browse theme settings"? |
| 18:12:02 | Llorean | Nah, neither of those really works well |
| 18:12:17 | rasher | Llorean: Already changed wps and rwps, fm presets are "Load Preset List", which I guess works |
| 18:12:35 | Llorean | "Select preset list" maybe? |
| 18:12:38 | Llorean | Or even "Choose preset list"? |
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| 18:13:21 | kugel | I'd drop the "list" |
| 18:13:41 | rasher | I think I'll just leave it. It's not really related to this change |
| 18:14:09 | Llorean | kugel: You aren't choosing one preset. |
| 18:14:12 | Llorean | Your choosing one group of presets. |
| 18:14:27 | kugel | I know, but how does that matter? |
| 18:14:32 | Llorean | If you drop the word "list" it means something very different entirely. |
| 18:14:38 | Llorean | One preset is "106.9 KRBE" |
| 18:14:45 | rasher | "Load Presets"? |
| 18:14:51 | | Quit AndyIL (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 18:14:55 | kugel | that's what I was thinking |
| 18:14:59 | Llorean | One preset list is several different presets associated with different stations |
| 18:15:02 | kugel | A theme is also a list of settings, we don't call it list either |
| 18:15:09 | Llorean | You'd load houston.fmr and that's the preset list for all presets in houston |
| 18:15:44 | Llorean | Have you used the FM Radio much? |
| 18:15:46 | Llorean | It's not a list of settings. |
| 18:16:02 | kugel | it's still one file. You click on 1 file, which is to me: load one thing, not caring about what actually is in that file |
| 18:17:04 | Llorean | There's a difference between "one file" and "one setting" |
| 18:17:15 | kugel | It's not? What is it then? It clearly lists some settings with their value to be applied |
| 18:17:25 | Llorean | In every other case, each "file" you load changes a single setting. In the case of the theme.cfg it changes many settings, just like running a "Manage settings" style .cfg does |
| 18:17:39 | Llorean | kugel: Really? What settings does it list? |
| 18:17:40 | | Join bertrik [0] (n=bertrik@ip117-49-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) |
| 18:17:56 | kugel | font, colors and stuff |
| 18:18:12 | Llorean | No, the FM preset is not a list of settings |
| 18:18:24 | kugel | I said a theme file is also just a list |
| 18:18:32 | Llorean | The fm preset is *not* just a list though |
| 18:18:34 | kugel | and we don't call it list |
| 18:18:36 | Llorean | Which is what *I* said |
| 18:18:45 | Llorean | The fm preset is a list of stations, it doesn't change multiple settings |
| 18:18:54 | Llorean | A theme file changes multiple settings, it's not a list of settings-independent values. |
| 18:18:58 | Llorean | They're two entirely different things. |
| 18:19:01 | kugel | how does setting or not change it being a list? |
| 18:19:29 | Llorean | We don't call it a theme list because it's not a list OF THEMES |
| 18:19:33 | Llorean | It's a single theme |
| 18:19:39 | Llorean | We could call it a "theme settings list" if you wanted |
| 18:19:50 | Llorean | But a single preset is different from a list of presets |
| 18:19:54 | Llorean | Calling it "a preset" is incorrect. |
| 18:20:01 | kugel | No, I don't want. The word list isn't needed at all imo |
| 18:20:04 | Llorean | A list of X is not the same as "an X" |
| 18:20:17 | Llorean | Do you understand the concept of a difference between singular and plural? |
| 18:20:29 | kugel | "Load presets" (with the 's', i.e. 1 item is presets) works fine |
| 18:20:37 | Llorean | You didn't say "rename it to Load presets" |
| 18:20:39 | Llorean | You said "remove the word list" |
| 18:20:46 | Llorean | Sorry" drop the list" |
| 18:21:36 | kugel | alright, I meant changing to "presets" in the same run (see my respond to rasher), I've should've been more clear in the first place, sorry |
| 18:21:37 | rasher | Actually, I think the word list makes sense, because it makes it obvious that there can be multiple lists of presets, which is less obvious if you just have "Load Presets" |
| 18:21:47 | bertrik | what would be a good PWM frequency for backlight dimming? |
| 18:22:01 | bertrik | I need to process two interrupts per PWM period |
| 18:22:25 | kugel | rasher: the current list doesn't mean there can be more than 1 list |
| 18:22:29 | bertrik | and what would be a good amount of backlight dimming steps? |
| 18:22:33 | | Quit daurn (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 18:22:50 | kugel | bertrik: trial and error seems the best way to find out |
| 18:23:08 | kugel | basically so that you meet the current settings |
| 18:23:47 | bertrik | kugel, does backlight dimming do 1 backlight step per tick or something? |
| 18:24:06 | kugel | are you after PWM fading or SW fading? |
| 18:24:20 | bertrik | PWM fading |
| 18:24:34 | kugel | that one does several pwm adjustments per tick |
| 18:24:37 | bertrik | I get an interrupt when the desired percentage is reached and another interrupt when the full period is reached |
| 18:25:55 | kugel | rasher: You mean the "list" makes clear that you're about to list a list of presets? |
| 18:26:13 | rasher | kugel: Err, yes. I think that's what I mean |
| 18:26:16 | bertrik | also I wonder how the backlight dimming steps should be spaced |
| 18:26:29 | kugel | We don't do this anywhere in rockbox |
| 18:26:39 | bertrik | PWM is probably as linear as you can get, while human perception is probably more logarithmic |
| 18:26:41 | kugel | imagine "Volume list" |
| 18:27:06 | kugel | people aren't expecting that list is related to "the screen will be a(nother) list" |
| 18:27:48 | rasher | kugel: Maybe that's not what I mean. No, it's not. I mean that "Load presets" just seems to imply that entering that will load some amount of presets, where as "Load Preset List" means that there are a number of lists you can pick from |
| 18:28:02 | kugel | That's what I mean |
| 18:28:35 | rasher | The "List" specifies that each item is a list, not that the menu you enter is a list |
| 18:28:38 | kugel | We aren't using the word list to announce a list where you can select an item from anywhere |
| 18:28:47 | Llorean | Yes, you have multiple sets of multiple presets, not just multiple presets. |
| 18:29:17 | kugel | so that's not what you're putting into the word list, hence " I think the word list makes sense, because it makes it obvious that there can be multiple lists of presets" doesn't really make sense to me |
| 18:29:38 | rasher | kugel: But that's not what this does. It just says "The list you're about to see consists of lists" |
| 18:29:43 | bertrik | kugel, OK I think I'll just pick some compromise between not too fast and not too flickery |
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| 18:30:08 | kugel | rasher: yea, that's how it's meant currently, but I don't think it's really needed |
| 18:30:31 | Llorean | But it's correct. |
| 18:30:36 | Llorean | That's what it is, a list of the names of lists. |
| 18:30:41 | kugel | I never said it's wrong |
| 18:31:00 | rasher | I think it's better than leaving it out, since removing it makes is less clear what happens when you enter that menu-entry |
| 18:31:19 | | Quit cg_ ("leaving") |
| 18:31:29 | kugel | you mean when you select something after entering that menu-entry? |
| 18:31:57 | rasher | No |
| 18:32:03 | rasher | I mean when you select that menu-entry |
| 18:32:18 | rasher | "Load presets" could mean it just loads some presets from god-knows-where |
| 18:32:42 | rasher | "Load preset list" makes it more clear that you get to pick a preset list |
| 18:32:51 | | Join cg_ [0] (n=cromos@cable-kmi-fe71de00-186.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 18:32:51 | kugel | the word "list", which means that each submenu entry is a list, makes clear that the submenu as a whole is also a list? |
| 18:33:33 | kugel | that doesn't make much sense to me, since, as I said, we nowhere else announce submenus being a list with the word list |
| 18:33:34 | | Quit petur ("work->home") |
| 18:33:44 | rasher | No, that's not what I'm saying |
| 18:33:55 | Torne | "load preset list" kinda implies "which preset list?" |
| 18:34:10 | Torne | "load presets" doesn't imply "which presets?" so much |
| 18:34:14 | Llorean | Torne: Yes, do you want the list of presets for houston, or the list of presets for dallas? |
| 18:34:18 | kugel | so does "Load presets" imples "Which presets" IMO |
| 18:34:28 | Llorean | You aren't getting a single preset, you're getting a single list of prests when you select something |
| 18:34:30 | kugel | imply* |
| 18:34:32 | Torne | kugel: well, yah. it's a matter of opinion, since of ocurse formally it means no such thing |
| 18:34:40 | Torne | kugel: but i have to agree with rasher, sounds like it to me |
| 18:34:55 | kugel | we could argue that way for many other settings in rockbox |
| 18:35:00 | Torne | Llorean: yah, i'm agreeing with you :) |
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| 18:35:36 | kugel | so the word list has a double meaning for you, while it only has 1 (what it's supposed to mean) for me |
| 18:35:44 | Torne | it's not the word list |
| 18:35:48 | Torne | it's just the way it's phrased |
| 18:35:52 | | Join JdGordon| [0] (i=836b0049@gateway/web/freenode/x-95ab2e85fd537619) |
| 18:36:02 | Torne | "load preset file" would imply the same thing to me |
| 18:36:04 | Llorean | kugel: So you disagree that each fmr file is a preset list? |
| 18:36:07 | Torne | that you had to pick which file |
| 18:36:19 | kugel | Llorean: How come you think that? |
| 18:36:22 | Torne | "load presets" sounds vague/abstract, it doesn't sound likely to ask me aything |
| 18:36:41 | rasher | kugel: Imagine "Load preset file" instead, substitute file with list, but with the same meaning |
| 18:37:00 | rasher | The fact that it's the word "list" is confusing things in this discussion, I think |
| 18:37:04 | Torne | "load presets" sounds similar to "load factory defaults" or similar :) |
| 18:37:09 | Torne | i.e. something i won't get a choice about |
| 18:37:16 | Torne | rasher: indeed |
| 18:37:21 | kugel | Llorean: It means to me that you get to choose preset lists |
| 18:37:29 | Llorean | kugel: And you are choosing preset lists. |
| 18:37:30 | kugel | so each file in there is a list |
| 18:37:33 | Llorean | Each fmr file is a preset list. |
| 18:37:37 | kugel | ... |
| 18:38:54 | Llorean | I'm really confused by what your objection is. |
| 18:38:57 | | Quit kugel (Nick collision from services.) |
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| 18:39:17 | Llorean | You agree that you get to choose preset files. You agree that each preset file is a list. Transitively, you're choosing a preset list. |
| 18:39:23 | Llorean | I don't see why you don't agree to the third point. |
| 18:39:32 | Llorean | What am I missing? |
| 18:39:56 | kugel | I'm saying the word list isn't needed, and that Load presets works just as fine |
| 18:40:30 | Llorean | But what you see isn't a list of presets. |
| 18:40:34 | Llorean | I can't load an individual preset. |
| 18:40:36 | kugel | I never said that the word list is wrong or something |
| 18:40:50 | Torne | kugel: some of us are saying "it's more obvious what it means if it says list" |
| 18:40:58 | kugel | it's a list of list of presets |
| 18:40:58 | Torne | so what's the actual argument for removing it? |
| 18:41:02 | Torne | it might be redundant to you |
| 18:41:06 | Torne | but clearly it has value to othre people |
| 18:41:14 | Llorean | Yes, it's a list of lists of presets. that is not the same as "a list of presets" |
| 18:41:16 | Torne | do you really want to save the five bytes that much? :) |
| 18:41:19 | kugel | for me, it's the same as a list of presets (each fmr is presets |
| 18:41:20 | kugel | ) |
| 18:41:53 | kugel | Torne: no, I don't actually care about it at all |
| 18:42:04 | Torne | then why are we even having this discussion? :) |
| 18:42:05 | kugel | just defending my opinion for whatever reason |
| 18:42:29 | kugel | Torne: because apparently some people think I'm not aware of the fact that each .fmr is a list |
| 18:42:35 | Torne | ok. mutual understanding has been reached |
| 18:42:37 | Torne | so we can stop? |
| 18:43:05 | kugel | I think so |
| 18:43:18 | * | gevaerts supports Torne's proposal |
| 18:45:44 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 18:46:31 | | Join javacris [0] (n=pao@82-160-42-100.tktelekom.pl) |
| 18:46:50 | Torne | ..what frequency is the tick? |
| 18:47:02 | * | Torne feels dumb for not being able to find it |
| 18:47:05 | gevaerts | 100Hz I think |
| 18:47:05 | kugel | 100 |
| 18:47:21 | kugel | i.e. "#define HZ 100" |
| 18:47:39 | Torne | ok i'm dense |
| 18:47:44 | Torne | it's not like i'v enever used HZ |
| 18:47:58 | javacris | Hi, I have Question about buttery runtime h300 series |
| 18:48:24 | kugel | The question itself would be more interesting |
| 18:48:27 | javacris | is truth that rockbox works longer then OF |
| 18:48:51 | kugel | javacris: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IriverRuntime |
| 18:49:06 | Blue_Dude | kugel: Hi. linuxstb suggested some cleanup from the debug fixes yesterday. The cleanup patch is in FS #10366. |
| 18:49:32 | javacris | I saw this site, but theres no battery bench with newest rockbox builds |
| 18:49:48 | JdGordon| | rasher: feel free to annoy me tonight to look at 10093... assuming you want someone to give it a once over? |
| 18:50:05 | kugel | it's generally not getting noticeably worse, but feel free to update the page with a recent result |
| 18:50:34 | | Join archstech [0] (n=archstec@206.251.250.215) |
| 18:51:13 | kugel | Blue_Dude: I think the "sdl_audio_callback: No Data.\n" should stay |
| 18:51:28 | rasher | JdGordon|: I'm fairly happy with it by now actually.. mostly I'm worried that the code could be more efficient. |
| 18:51:29 | | Join dlctestnt [0] (n=dlctestn@206.251.250.209) |
| 18:51:38 | Blue_Dude | kugel: OK. I'm not convinced it's an error though. |
| 18:51:38 | kugel | and I can't remember seeing any of the others yet |
| 18:52:07 | kugel | Blue_Dude: it can show unexpected audio stop too |
| 18:52:09 | Blue_Dude | kugel: The others only occur when −−debugaudio is active. |
| 18:53:24 | Blue_Dude | kugel: So should they be DEBUG again, or should logc be enabled by default in that file? |
| 18:53:44 | | Part javacris |
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| 18:56:18 | Torne | hm. repainting the screen takes 0.15 seconds while unboosted, then |
| 18:56:22 | Torne | that's kinda slow |
| 18:56:29 | | Quit ocean (Ping timeout: 180 seconds) |
| 18:56:38 | Torne | explains why scrolling the entire screen one line at a time sucks so hard :) |
| 18:57:44 | gevaerts | Torne: if you don't need to do that too often, just boost for the duration |
| 18:57:45 | Torne | i need a better buffering strategy. |
| 18:57:46 | kugel | Blue_Dude: so, say the one stays, and the other are only with -debugaudio, nothing would change actually (except needing an extra define)? |
| 18:58:07 | Torne | gevaerts: the problem is that it scrolls one line at a time |
| 18:58:13 | Torne | if it scrolled the screen all at once that'd be fine as it is |
| 18:58:19 | kugel | 0.15s is horribly slow, which target is that on? |
| 18:58:21 | gevaerts | Torne: yes, but probably only if someone does something |
| 18:58:26 | Torne | but scrolling up 30-odd lines for the entire screen means repainting 30 times |
| 18:58:35 | Torne | which is immediately 4.4s |
| 18:58:39 | kugel | you could run test_fps to see the real refresh time |
| 18:58:40 | Llorean | Torne: Do you need to scroll? Can you just redraw everything instead? |
| 18:58:43 | Torne | kugel: this is printing text |
| 18:58:46 | Llorean | Smooth scrolling isn't liked by everyone anyway |
| 18:58:47 | Torne | Llorean: this is redrawing. |
| 18:58:55 | Torne | i don't get a choice |
| 18:58:58 | Torne | it's a text console |
| 18:59:01 | Llorean | Torne: but I mean, step everything up one whole line, then redraw the screen once, rather than scrolling. |
| 18:59:07 | Torne | I am doing that |
| 18:59:11 | Torne | i'm not scrolling the grpahical data |
| 18:59:15 | Torne | i'm buffering the text as text |
| 18:59:19 | Torne | scrolling that in the text buffer |
| 18:59:22 | Torne | then repainting the screen. |
| 18:59:26 | Torne | the repaint takes 0.15s :( |
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| 18:59:38 | kugel | I can't really believe that |
| 18:59:40 | Torne | the interpreter doesn't know how many more lines are going to be printed before the next prompt |
| 18:59:45 | kugel | I don't know what your code is like though |
| 18:59:46 | Llorean | Torne: What target? |
| 18:59:49 | Torne | ipod video |
| 18:59:55 | Torne | kugel: it's a slow hack :) |
| 18:59:59 | Torne | it's printing one character at a time |
| 19:00 |
| 19:00:01 | Torne | for an entire screenful |
| 19:00:07 | Llorean | That's basically the slowest screen/processor combination. |
| 19:00:10 | Torne | doing seperate utf8 encode/decode for each character |
| 19:00:13 | Llorean | At least you're looking at a worst-case. |
| 19:00:31 | Torne | yah. the problem is that i'm repainting on scroll |
| 19:00:35 | Torne | i probably shouldn't |
| 19:00:42 | kugel | Torne: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/LcdFrameRate lists a better redraw time |
| 19:00:45 | Torne | i should be lazy and repaint just when everything stops :) |
| 19:00:54 | Torne | kugel: this is a *text buffer with formatting attributes* |
| 19:01:00 | Torne | being output one character at a time with lcd_putsxy |
| 19:01:02 | kugel | so? |
| 19:01:06 | Torne | it's nothing to do with the time lcd_update takes |
| 19:01:13 | kugel | lcd_update just writes the framebuffer to the hardware |
| 19:01:15 | Torne | itg's the time it takes to do all the messing around with fonts |
| 19:01:26 | kugel | it doesn't matter what's in the frame buffer |
| 19:01:36 | Torne | it's not the lcd_update that i'm timing |
| 19:01:43 | kugel | what's repainting then? |
| 19:01:45 | Torne | it's the process of calling lcd_puts all those times |
| 19:01:51 | Torne | my code, repainting the text console |
| 19:02:05 | Blue_Dude | kugel: Something like that. I put in the −−debugaudio outputs in myself last week and they're not too obnoxious. I was mainly targeting the sdl debug output, but if it's necessary then there no real point in patching that file. |
| 19:03:02 | Torne | kugel: i'm not complaining about any part of rockbox, to be clear |
| 19:03:14 | Torne | *my code* is too slow, because the zmachine is dumb and i've implemented it in a naieve way |
| 19:03:14 | kugel | Torne: so repainting is the whole thing, except for the just added line? |
| 19:03:42 | linuxstb | Torne: You just want to scroll the text up one line? |
| 19:03:43 | Torne | yah. it has to lcd_putsxy() every single character on the entire screen again, just to scroll up one line |
| 19:03:49 | Torne | linuxstb: yup :) |
| 19:03:50 | bertrik | the meizu m3 has a little piezo speaker connected to two pins |
| 19:03:58 | bertrik | is there anything in rockbox that could use that? |
| 19:04:11 | bertrik | keyclick maybe? (that's what the OF seems to use it for) |
| 19:04:17 | gevaerts | yes |
| 19:04:20 | Torne | i think i need to just not draw anything on the screen at all until the user gets prompted for input |
| 19:04:22 | gevaerts | that would be nice |
| 19:04:25 | | Quit JdGordon| (Ping timeout: 180 seconds) |
| 19:04:27 | linuxstb | Torne: Then just "memmove()" the lcd framebuffer... If you choose a font that is 8 pixels high, that will also be easy on mono/greyscale targets with vertically packed pixels. |
| 19:04:29 | Torne | that will break games that expect unbuffered output but i can't see it being fast enough otherwise |
| 19:04:45 | kugel | Torne: if it's full width and height, you could advance the framebuffer with an relatively simple trick |
| 19:04:49 | Torne | linuxstb: scroll region is an arbitrary rectangle |
| 19:04:55 | Torne | measured in character cells admittedly |
| 19:04:56 | Torne | but still. |
| 19:04:59 | Torne | and it's using sysfont atm ;) |
| 19:05:24 | Torne | so yah. one way to do this would be to scroll in the framebuffer |
| 19:05:35 | Torne | i still need to buffer the text though, so i can redraw the screen after going to a menu |
| 19:05:46 | Torne | at that point a 0.15s redraw time is fine because that only has to be *once* :) |
| 19:05:51 | kugel | something like frame_buffer = framebuffer + LCD_WIDTH*LCD_HEIGHT*sizeof(fb_data) |
| 19:06:15 | Torne | kugel: it's any arbitrary region, but yes, i could do it by blitting |
| 19:06:25 | kugel | hm no, that probably wouldn't work |
| 19:06:40 | Torne | but it's probably in reality much easier to just be lazy about updating the screen |
| 19:06:51 | Torne | at the cost of breaking games that expect to be able to output hwile they are processing. |
| 19:07:14 | Torne | the dumbfrotz that i started with does that anyway :) i just assumed it'd be fast enugh not to have to bother |
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| 19:08:09 | * | Torne also wonders if the effort of searching the text buffer for consecutive runs of characters formatted the same would be worth it in the reduced number of calls to lcd_putsxy |
| 19:08:10 | linuxstb | Nothing on the ipod video is "fast enough"... |
| 19:08:34 | Torne | 0.15s is fast enough to get your screen back after going into a menu when you're playing a text adventure :) |
| 19:08:44 | Torne | and i can make it a bit better in the average case by, say |
| 19:08:47 | Blue_Dude | linuxstb: The cleanup you mentioned is in FS #10366 . Thanks. |
| 19:08:48 | Torne | not printing trailing whitespace |
| 19:09:00 | Torne | (or in fact any whitespace at all since i cleared the screen anyway) |
| 19:09:21 | Blue_Dude | kugel: The sound.c file is being left alone. Thanks also. |
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| 19:16:57 | gevaerts | Torne: indeed. First do the trivial optimisations and then see how bad it is :) |
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| 19:37:41 | CIA-71 | New commit by rasher (r21464): Center the list on the currently loaded file in the following screens (FS #10093): ... |
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| 19:56:04 | kugel | rasher: "While Playing Screen" is maybe not a good idea |
| 19:56:13 | rasher | kugel: Oh? |
| 19:56:32 | kugel | I'd think it leads to that screen, instead of chosing a file which "formats" it |
| 19:56:45 | rasher | You're inside "theme settings"? |
| 19:57:17 | kugel | yea, you changed "Browse .wps files" to "While Playing Screen" |
| 19:57:23 | kugel | I don't have a better idea though |
| 19:57:43 | rasher | I know. I just think it makes perfect sense, when you consider that it's "Theme settings > While Playing Screen" |
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| 19:58:16 | kugel | we will see |
| 19:58:32 | | Nick J-23 is now known as zajeliminicka (n=zelazko@unix.net.pl) |
| 19:58:42 | | Nick zajeliminicka is now known as J-23 (n=zelazko@unix.net.pl) |
| 19:59:18 | ZincAlloy | Hi everybody. Is anybody else experiencing freezes when selecting files in the browser while rockbox is automatically changing directories? |
| 20:00 |
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| 20:01:47 | | Join Hendrik_ [0] (n=chatzill@xdsl-84-44-178-147.netcologne.de) |
| 20:06:12 | CIA-71 | New commit by rob (r21465): TCC78x: Make the NAND driver yield during reads (thanks to bertrik for spotting the obvious error that caused this to crash until now). Fixes the D2 ... |
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| 20:12:19 | kugel | meh |
| 20:12:39 | kugel | shotofads not here |
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| 20:14:40 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: IIRC he's been quite swamped with a lot of real-life stuff and doesn't get much of a chance to do any Rockbox-related work. |
| 20:14:42 | | Join merbanan [0] (n=banan@c-83-233-243-100.cust.bredband2.com) |
| 20:14:54 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: he just committed something ;) |
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| 20:15:22 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: Maybe he just got a little free time? ;) |
| 20:18:04 | CIA-71 | New commit by rasher (r21466): Make sure pwd is the same dir that holds runclient.sh and rbclient.pl. |
| 20:18:07 | bertrik | kugel, while playing with your fuze a bit at devcon, I noticed that the blue bar was not always the exact same colour, it seemed to depend on buttons too |
| 20:18:07 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: it seems ;) |
| 20:18:17 | kugel | huh |
| 20:18:23 | kugel | I didn't notice that |
| 20:18:39 | bertrik | I think I saw it in the debug/frequency screen |
| 20:18:59 | bertrik | increase the frequency to bring up the blue bars then press some buttons |
| 20:19:08 | kugel | will try |
| 20:19:13 | bertrik | at least that's what I remember |
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| 20:24:24 | linuxstb | BryanJacobs: Hi, how are things going? |
| 20:25:22 | BryanJacobs | linuxstb: A-OK |
| 20:25:38 | BryanJacobs | I'm finishing up multi-file buffering |
| 20:25:49 | BryanJacobs | going to worry about reducing back-and-forth seeking later |
| 20:25:55 | BryanJacobs | you saw my last status update email? |
| 20:26:19 | linuxstb | Yes. Can you explain how your multi-file buffering works? |
| 20:26:32 | BryanJacobs | the way I'm building it currently is as follows: |
| 20:26:45 | linuxstb | Is this with the actual Rockbox buffering code? |
| 20:26:50 | BryanJacobs | ? |
| 20:26:56 | | Quit flydutch ("/* empty */") |
| 20:27:00 | Mikachu | it's never good when the first step is a question mark |
| 20:27:09 | BryanJacobs | define "actual" - I'm editing the latest Rockbox SVN with the goal of making it work on target |
| 20:27:15 | BryanJacobs | Mikachu: :-P |
| 20:27:27 | BryanJacobs | the "?" was in response to linuxstb's question |
| 20:27:29 | linuxstb | BryanJacobs: I mean is this something you've integrated into Rockbox, or is it a standalone test at the moment? |
| 20:27:47 | BryanJacobs | linuxstb: it's not done yet but it should work on target when I finish |
| 20:27:57 | BryanJacobs | now, how I plan to have it work: |
| 20:28:13 | BryanJacobs | first, note that I'm not going to obsolete the current buffering methods |
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| 20:28:21 | BryanJacobs | they'll remain available for all codecs to use |
| 20:28:34 | BryanJacobs | but, when a codec wants multi-file buffering it can make a secondary set of calls instead |
| 20:28:36 | | Quit einhirn (Client Quit) |
| 20:28:48 | BryanJacobs | first, it calls request_buffer multiple times - once per file it wants buffered |
| 20:29:22 | BryanJacobs | then, it calls inform_consumed to tell the buffering layer to advance the buffer (like the advance_buffer call we had before) |
| 20:30:09 | BryanJacobs | when it reaches the end of a buffer prematurely it calls block_on_buffer to sleep on filling |
| 20:30:29 | BryanJacobs | that's the entire API, three calls |
| 20:30:37 | BryanJacobs | plus a free makes four I suppose |
| 20:30:46 | linuxstb | Hmm, what do you mean by "when a codec wants"? The codec itself is loaded after buffering has happened. |
| 20:31:12 | BryanJacobs | the way I envisioned it is that the codec is loaded after the "primary" file is buffered but before the secondary one |
| 20:31:17 | BryanJacobs | or tertiary etc |
| 20:31:28 | Mikachu | so would you throw away other cached primary files then? |
| 20:31:30 | BryanJacobs | the codec needs to look at the header to determine if another file is needed, in the case of wavpack |
| 20:31:44 | linuxstb | At that time, another codec may be running, decoding an earlier file. |
| 20:32:12 | BryanJacobs | linuxstb: as long as there's some buffer space remaining there shouldn't be an issue |
| 20:32:20 | BryanJacobs | if the buffer is full we need to wait for the other codec to free some |
| 20:32:22 | linuxstb | Before the file is buffered, the "get_metadata()" function (in core Rockbox, not part of the loadable codec) is called. This parses the file, and can tell if it's a hybrid file. |
| 20:32:42 | Mikachu | BryanJacobs: what if there are four files in the buffer, first is wavpack, the other 3 are mp3, and it is full, what happens? |
| 20:32:42 | BryanJacobs | I suppose it would be a good idea to hook in there instead of inside the codec |
| 20:32:58 | BryanJacobs | Mikachu: we'd have to use the wavpack space >_< |
| 20:33:19 | BryanJacobs | I was kind of viewing the buffer as "mine" to steal when the wavpack codec is loaded |
| 20:33:22 | BryanJacobs | maybe that's a mistake |
| 20:33:33 | linuxstb | BryanJacobs: Yes, I think so. That function reads data from the disk directly - there's no buffering API in the middle. So it can do what it wants, and read whatever it wants. |
| 20:33:49 | linuxstb | i.e. it uses the standard open() and read() functions. |
| 20:33:53 | BryanJacobs | I see that |
| 20:34:09 | BryanJacobs | maybe we should try making the buffer a linked list of blocks |
| 20:34:27 | BryanJacobs | with each codec calling a function to get "its own" next block |
| 20:34:37 | BryanJacobs | which returns a size as well as a pointer |
| 20:35:21 | BryanJacobs | like, struct { void* curptr, unsigned size } get_some_more_of_my_stuff(void* prevptr) |
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| 20:35:58 | BryanJacobs | then a single codec can handle two files by holding onto two prevptrs at once |
| 20:36:01 | | Quit JdGordon| (Client Quit) |
| 20:36:07 | BryanJacobs | does that sound good? |
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| 20:39:05 | linuxstb | I'm not sure I understand - what does a block contain? |
| 20:39:17 | BryanJacobs | a block is some binary data loaded from the disk |
| 20:39:33 | BryanJacobs | whatever has been read into the buffer |
| 20:40:01 | BryanJacobs | the important logical change is that instead of storing the buffer as a straight ring, it's a set of linked lists |
| 20:40:03 | linuxstb | So how does that help? The main problems that I can see are that you need to read from two files, which may not fit completely inside the buffer. |
| 20:40:25 | BryanJacobs | they don't have to so long as we can give some of each file to the codec |
| 20:40:52 | CIA-71 | New commit by kugel (r21467): Redo r21460 and r21462 so that it doesn't introduce a new #define. Patch by Jeffrey Goode, taken from FS #10366. |
| 20:40:55 | BryanJacobs | buffer 50/50 at first and then perhaps an adaptive algorithm later |
| 20:41:14 | BryanJacobs | or we can give a hint when we open the file about how much to read at once |
| 20:41:26 | BryanJacobs | so, if there's only one file in the buffer it looks like this: |
| 20:41:36 | BryanJacobs | FILE1 chunk -> FILE1 chunk -> FILE1 chunk |
| 20:41:42 | BryanJacobs | if there are two it looks like this: |
| 20:41:46 | | Quit kugel (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 20:42:13 | BryanJacobs | FILE1 chunk -(ptr to slot 3), FILE2 chunk -(ptr to slot 4), FILE1 chunk, FILE2 chunk |
| 20:43:01 | BryanJacobs | it's like a malloc() implementation, kind of |
| 20:43:26 | Torne | it's exactly like a malloc implementatoin, really ) |
| 20:43:30 | linuxstb | Isn't that going to result in 1) holes in the buffer; 2) the data not being contiguous? |
| 20:43:38 | BryanJacobs | yes to both |
| 20:43:45 | Mikachu | so did we solve the problem of identifying the file before the codec is opened? |
| 20:43:49 | BryanJacobs | the holes are free spots available for further buffering |
| 20:44:10 | BryanJacobs | Mikachu: the file identification isn't the problem, it's just that after the codec is opened it can ask for additional files |
| 20:44:26 | BryanJacobs | for example, album art files named in APE tags or some such |
| 20:44:26 | Mikachu | so you're going to always reserve some empty buffer space in case a codec needs another file? |
| 20:44:35 | Mikachu | isn't this going to cause some disk seek every time you play a hybrid file? |
| 20:44:47 | BryanJacobs | Mikachu: yes, how could that be avoided? |
| 20:44:50 | Mikachu | because you don't know which secondary file you need until it already started playing |
| 20:44:58 | Mikachu | BryanJacobs: that was what i was asking i guess :) |
| 20:45:11 | BryanJacobs | we either have to waste disk time opening a correction file we don't need, or we have to spin up when we load the file |
| 20:45:16 | Mikachu | file format aware buffering code |
| 20:45:20 | BryanJacobs | either way we could end up losing |
| 20:45:42 | BryanJacobs | Mikachu: could still be wrong if a correction file is present but mismatched/unneeded |
| 20:45:46 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 20:46:05 | linuxstb | The get_metadata() function should be able to work all that out. |
| 20:46:06 | Mikachu | couldn't you just put the code that determines if it is unneeded in the bufferer instead of the codec? |
| 20:46:26 | BryanJacobs | linuxstb: get_metadata can't read the correction file, so if the .wvc is wrong/broken it won't know |
| 20:46:32 | BryanJacobs | example: |
| 20:46:40 | linuxstb | Why can't it read it? |
| 20:46:43 | Torne | surely you're not optimising for the case where files are wrong/broken though |
| 20:46:59 | Torne | as long as the system doesn't totally fall over when that happens it's fine, no? :) |
| 20:47:06 | BryanJacobs | Torne: yeah, I suppose so |
| 20:47:06 | | Quit Cory` ("There are two major products that come out of Berkeley: LSD and UNIX. We don't believe this to be a coincidence.") |
| 20:47:16 | BryanJacobs | ok, so we read both files at metadata time |
| 20:47:28 | BryanJacobs | and compare headers/make sure they match |
| 20:47:32 | BryanJacobs | right? |
| 20:47:52 | linuxstb | BryanJacobs: You can if it's needed. Although maybe we'll decide that just checking a file exists is enough of a check. |
| 20:47:54 | Torne | i was implying you could just assume they will match |
| 20:48:07 | Torne | and if at playback time it turns out not to just throw it away |
| 20:48:10 | Mikachu | why is a broken correction file more serious than a broken primary file? :) |
| 20:48:13 | Torne | and take the performance hit of having buffered something useless |
| 20:48:27 | BryanJacobs | OK, deal, we say "silly users, name your files correctly" |
| 20:48:30 | Mikachu | (except that it takes up more buffer space) |
| 20:48:40 | Torne | as long as it doesn't actually *crash* who cares. silly users. :) |
| 20:48:47 | BryanJacobs | so then we do need file-format-aware buffering code |
| 20:48:53 | Mikachu | i think you have to be a pretty advanced user to use these hybrid files in the first place, right? |
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| 20:49:04 | BryanJacobs | because otherwise we can't determine which secondary file(s) are needed |
| 20:49:17 | BryanJacobs | how else do we know to add 'c' to the filename to find the correction file? |
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| 20:49:26 | Torne | BryanJacobs: no, you just need some way for get_metadata to communicate this fact to eh buffering code |
| 20:49:39 | Torne | get_metadata gets called for the primary file, it can do what it likes, go look for the secondary one |
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| 20:49:41 | Mikachu | is get_metadata a function in the codec? |
| 20:49:42 | linuxstb | BryanJacobs: Yes, that's how I always thought your project would go - making the buffering code aware that there's a second file to buffer, and maybe even using wavpack-specific buffering code. |
| 20:49:50 | BryanJacobs | get_metadata says buffer_get(primary_file+"c")? |
| 20:49:55 | Torne | Mikachu: no, it's in core |
| 20:49:58 | Mikachu | okay |
| 20:50:03 | linuxstb | Although there's an obvious downside to that approach (wasted code in the core for 99% of users) |
| 20:50:12 | Torne | Mikachu: but it's implemented seperately for each container format |
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| 20:50:32 | BryanJacobs | linuxstb: the way I interpreted the attitude of the developers at my interview, I thought the goal was to produce something as generic as possible |
| 20:50:43 | BryanJacobs | they, generalized multi-file buffering instead of codec-specific code |
| 20:50:47 | BryanJacobs | *thus |
| 20:51:02 | BryanJacobs | I have no objection to doing it either way |
| 20:51:09 | Mikachu | but with the other approach, the file isn't buffered at all, if i got you right |
| 20:51:23 | Mikachu | the whole point of buffering is to avoid spinups for as long as possible (i think) |
| 20:51:33 | * | Torne would think the buffering stuff should just be general, and get_metadata should handle asking for the generic buffer stuff to do the extra files. |
| 20:51:37 | linuxstb | My impression was that we want a general framework, with an implementation specific to wavpack hybrid. i.e. make it easier for others to do the same for other formats. But yes, I think we need the input of other devs before going too far down a particular road. |
| 20:52:07 | BryanJacobs | I like the idea of changing buffering to behave like malloc |
| 20:52:17 | CIA-71 | New commit by pondlife (r21468): Allow use of timestretch with semitones in the pitchscreen. Rename variables to clarify the meaning of 'speed'. |
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| 20:52:19 | Torne | BryanJacobs: other people are unlikely to, probably :) |
| 20:52:20 | BryanJacobs | is there a particular downside to having noncontiguous regions? |
| 20:52:24 | Torne | at least descrbed like that |
| 20:53:04 | BryanJacobs | I mean, you go codec(region_1), reg2 = next_region(region_1), codec(reg2), reg3 = next_region(reg2), ... |
| 20:53:11 | BryanJacobs | is the overhead really that bad? |
| 20:53:25 | Torne | in nice cases, probably not |
| 20:53:28 | linuxstb | BryanJacobs: Yes, codecs expect their data to be contiguous. Or at least, to receive small chunks of contiguous data. |
| 20:53:44 | BryanJacobs | they would be receiving small chunks of contiguous data |
| 20:53:51 | domonoky | cant we just make a codec specific loading function ? so those two files are treated as one (maybe with interleaving) ? |
| 20:54:02 | Torne | BryanJacobs: but they might have opinions on the alignment/etc of that data? |
| 20:54:06 | BryanJacobs | domonoky: yes, but that's almost useless to other codecs |
| 20:54:16 | Torne | BryanJacobs: they may want, say, whole frames |
| 20:54:22 | BryanJacobs | Torne: malign is like an aligned malloc :-P |
| 20:54:24 | | Quit HBK (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 20:54:29 | BryanJacobs | or you could set a minimum chunk size |
| 20:54:32 | Torne | BryanJacobs: i mean with respect to the data in the input file |
| 20:54:36 | Torne | not the locatin in memory |
| 20:54:40 | Mikachu | i like how bad the word "malign" is for that function |
| 20:54:41 | domonoky | BryanJacobs: why, other codecs could do the same, metadata.c registering a codec specific loading callback. |
| 20:54:46 | Torne | they might want to only read entire frames |
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| 20:54:56 | Torne | as contiguous regions |
| 20:55:00 | Torne | where the frame size is variable ) |
| 20:55:01 | linuxstb | The codec API guarantees that the get_buffer() function returns a pointer to the next 32KB of data. The only time this function requires a memcpy currently is at the buffer wraparound point (i.e. once every 29MB or so on most targets). |
| 20:55:07 | Mikachu | domonoky: but you can't call codec specific code if the codec isn't loaded |
| 20:55:36 | BryanJacobs | linuxstb: so why not always make it at most 32KB worth of data? |
| 20:55:36 | domonoky | Mikachu: it ofcouse has to stay in the metadata code, to be available at loading time. |
| 20:55:41 | Mikachu | right okay |
| 20:55:41 | BryanJacobs | then we don't have real malloc issues |
| 20:55:48 | BryanJacobs | we just divide the buffer into 32KB chunks |
| 20:55:55 | BryanJacobs | and chain together chunks as we like |
| 20:56:03 | BryanJacobs | overhead: one function call per 32K of data decoded |
| 20:56:14 | linuxstb | BryanJacobs: Because a codec may only use 24KB of it, then it expects the next request to contain the final 8KB of that data, plus the next 24KB. |
| 20:56:32 | BryanJacobs | linuxstb: hmm. |
| 20:56:37 | BryanJacobs | how often does that happen? |
| 20:56:39 | Torne | BryanJacobs: the entire api is set up as "it's a ring buffer", basically :) |
| 20:56:47 | linuxstb | BryanJacobs: All the time in most codecs. |
| 20:56:48 | BryanJacobs | if the next chunk is free, we don't have to memcpy |
| 20:56:51 | BryanJacobs | <sigh> |
| 20:57:10 | BryanJacobs | ok, that sounds bad - we have to copy the 8k into a new chunk iff the next chunk is in use |
| 20:57:11 | linuxstb | i.e. lots of codecs don't know the size of the frame until after it's been decoded. But they know it's no bigger than 32KB. |
| 20:57:24 | bertrik | what other rockbox targets have an actual speaker onboard? |
| 20:57:26 | Torne | BryanJacobs: yah. so then fragmentatin starts to become very expensive |
| 20:57:37 | * | domonoky still thinks a codec specific loading function is the way to go, to not spend the whole summer on buffering issues :-) |
| 20:57:44 | BryanJacobs | I feel I might have been to ambitious |
| 20:57:47 | BryanJacobs | *too |
| 20:57:56 | Torne | domonoky: interleaving/etc only works if you know the relative rate at which you will consume the files |
| 20:58:13 | Torne | domonoky: if you might end up using up most of file A and only using a bit of file B, but don't kow that ahead of time, interleaving doesn't work |
| 20:58:13 | Mikachu | i assume both files are variable bitrate too? |
| 20:58:25 | BryanJacobs | Mikachu: yes |
| 20:58:47 | BryanJacobs | well, you don't know the number of bits/frame |
| 20:59:07 | BryanJacobs | but you do know bits/block after you read the block header |
| 20:59:09 | Mikachu | am i also right in assuming the whole correction file won't fit in the buffer on most targets? |
| 20:59:21 | BryanJacobs | the correction file can be 3x the lossy |
| 20:59:22 | BryanJacobs | in size |
| 20:59:35 | BryanJacobs | so, no, that's not a good approach |
| 20:59:38 | Mikachu | well, it trivially won't since songs can be any length :) |
| 20:59:51 | Torne | Mikachu: assume 74-minute prog rock odyssey :) |
| 20:59:59 | domonoky | you should never trust that a file fits in memory.. we have targets with small buffers :-) |
| 21:00 |
| 21:00:01 | Mikachu | my point is that if you interleave, you have to do it exactly, otherwise you will overwrite yourself when you wrap around |
| 21:00:22 | Torne | ooh, that's a thought |
| 21:00:27 | Torne | if you are imagining what i think you are |
| 21:00:27 | BryanJacobs | not necessarily - there are internal 1k buffers in the wavpack codec |
| 21:00:48 | Torne | interleave the files in such a fashion that you effectively have two entire interleaved ring buffers |
| 21:00:57 | BryanJacobs | sorry all, I've g2g, I'll be back in 30 mins - 1 hour |
| 21:01:07 | BryanJacobs | Torne: isn't that kind of like what I was describing? |
| 21:01:13 | BryanJacobs | two linked lists occupying the same space? |
| 21:01:21 | BryanJacobs | bbl |
| 21:01:21 | Torne | BryanJacobs: no, i'm talking about having an entirely fixed arrangement |
| 21:01:26 | Torne | not a linked list |
| 21:01:38 | Torne | and with no possibility to free it in holes. |
| 21:01:42 | Mikachu | if so, wouldn't it be better to have the ring buffers be separate areas, instead of interleaved? |
| 21:01:46 | gevaerts | a möbius buffer? |
| 21:02:24 | Torne | Mikachu: well, you could.. i don't know that that mixes with single-file use though? |
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| 21:02:36 | Torne | this is just a wild thought i'm having, not a fully considered solution :) |
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| 21:02:48 | AlexP | bertrik: The connect has a speaker if you fancing doing the port :) |
| 21:02:50 | Mikachu | it sounds like permanent interleaving would mess with them much more |
| 21:03:00 | Torne | not permanent, just while buffering that file |
| 21:03:05 | Mikachu | ah |
| 21:03:20 | Torne | so if the whole thing fits in the buffer then it's the same as loading one then the other from everyone else's POV |
| 21:03:28 | bertrik | AlexP, the connect looks like too much work to port I think |
| 21:03:32 | Torne | and if not then eventually you wrap around and the entire buffer contains interleaved bits of the thing you are buffering |
| 21:03:42 | AlexP | bertrik: Ye of little faith :) |
| 21:03:55 | Torne | until you've buffered up to the end of both files, at which point you start using wherever the later buffer finishes as the single ring buffer again for the next file |
| 21:03:59 | Torne | i'm not sure that makes sense ) |
| 21:04:06 | Torne | or is any better tahn any other way of doing it |
| 21:04:25 | Mikachu | Torne: the problem i meant earlier was you have a buffer of 5 MB, you load 1MB primary file and 4MB secondary file, and when you reach the end, you still have 200kB unused primary file, but you can't continue reading the secondary one |
| 21:04:44 | Mikachu | so that would be solved with your permanent pattern |
| 21:04:47 | Torne | yah, so you read them in 128kb chunks interleaved |
| 21:04:59 | Torne | then if you've run out of one file you just refill the alternate blocks |
| 21:05:05 | Torne | and leave the other file's bits alone |
| 21:05:08 | Mikachu | well, the ratio would be up for debate |
| 21:05:16 | Torne | well yah. it would have to be static though |
| 21:05:22 | Torne | so get_metadata would have to propose a suitable one |
| 21:05:35 | Torne | but yah the point is to not try and free buffers as you go along, more or less |
| 21:05:43 | Mikachu | but i guess when you're listening to lossless you don't expect no spinups anyway (double negation intended) |
| 21:05:46 | Torne | you may have to live with bad choices of ratio |
| 21:06:13 | Torne | but the thing in my imagination here at least wouldn't itnerfere with the subsequent files to be buffered |
| 21:06:33 | Torne | it'd be a reasonable distance from making optimal use of the available buffer space, though |
| 21:07:16 | Torne | ...hm |
| 21:07:25 | | Quit KBH (Connection timed out) |
| 21:07:25 | Torne | yeah it doesn't actually matter if you interleave or not then |
| 21:07:38 | Torne | oh, no, wait. |
| 21:07:46 | Torne | if you already have the previous tracks buffered it does. |
| 21:07:54 | Torne | say, half the buffer is full of mp3 |
| 21:08:08 | Torne | you can't just divide the other half of the buffer up, because then you'd be wasting the rest of ram once the mp3s are played |
| 21:08:11 | Torne | so interleaving does help |
| 21:08:14 | Mikachu | if you don't interleave, you would get my two circular buffers instead |
| 21:08:27 | Torne | yah. but that only works as well if ram is empty to start with |
| 21:08:29 | Torne | which it usually won't be |
| 21:08:45 | Torne | interleaving means you can buffer 'a bit more' later and take yup the space that wasn't free before. |
| 21:08:54 | Mikachu | yeah |
| 21:09:09 | Torne | so, yah, i *think* it works |
| 21:09:19 | Torne | it's not going to be optimal for buffering the multi-file track |
| 21:09:26 | Torne | unless your guessed ratio is spot on |
| 21:09:38 | Torne | but i think youc an do it without interfering with the previous/next thing in the buffer.. |
| 21:09:49 | Mikachu | maybe you could (ab)use the tag cache or dircache to store optimal ratios for files? |
| 21:09:55 | linuxstb | The ratio can be guessed by the size of the two files - I would expect that would be quite close. |
| 21:10:00 | Torne | linuxstb: probably |
| 21:10:20 | Mikachu | yeah, optimally you would reach the end of both files at the same time :) |
| 21:10:34 | Torne | well you would reach the end at the same tim in almost all cases |
| 21:10:38 | | Quit HBK- (Connection timed out) |
| 21:10:42 | Torne | unles the codec is very weird :) |
| 21:10:51 | Torne | but you may get out of sync inbetween 0 |
| 21:11:08 | Mikachu | yeah, but if you get out of sync in between and change the ratio, you will be out of sync at the end instead |
| 21:11:26 | Torne | i wasn't imagining you'd ever change the ratio once you started buffering the track |
| 21:11:38 | Torne | keep it static and the buffering code doesn't need to be *too* complicated |
| 21:11:51 | Mikachu | no i didn't mean dynamically |
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| 21:11:54 | Torne | of course the codec using this would have to not expect the restriction linuxstb explained above |
| 21:12:02 | Mikachu | rather, the same files with another ratio, you would be out of sync at the end |
| 21:12:07 | Torne | it would have to be happy with getting back noncontiguous data ;) |
| 21:12:26 | Mikachu | but say for things like .psf files that have a .psflib, it would be a different matter |
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| 21:12:42 | Torne | i don't know anything about any of these codecs, admittedly ) |
| 21:12:46 | Torne | no idea what wavpack is |
| 21:12:50 | Mikachu | it's more like a midi file and patchset i think |
| 21:13:15 | Mikachu | (the .psf ones - playstation music) |
| 21:13:21 | | Join Ashex [0] (n=Ashex@c-98-247-101-203.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 21:13:26 | Mikachu | wavpack is a lossy/lossless codec (you probably got this part already :) |
| 21:13:26 | Torne | ah |
| 21:13:32 | Torne | yeah i inferred as much |
| 21:13:40 | Ashex | Why is it that the Utility makes all directories read only when I try to install a theme? |
| 21:13:44 | Torne | patchset type formats are a totally different problem to buffer |
| 21:13:55 | Torne | unless the entire patchset fits in ram you are basically stuffed |
| 21:14:02 | Mikachu | yeah |
| 21:16:25 | | Quit ZincAlloy ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 21:16:41 | linuxstb | The other buffering issue we have are large non-streaming formats like MOD, where the codec needs constant random access to the entire file. |
| 21:16:52 | | Quit Hillshum (Ping timeout: 180 seconds) |
| 21:17:05 | Torne | yah, that's just the worst case of patchset type buffering |
| 21:17:07 | Mikachu | that is basically the same issue as the patchset ones then |
| 21:17:14 | Torne | where the random-access bit is 100% of the file instead of a smaller percent :) |
| 21:17:15 | Ashex | It's a bit annoying. I've got a udev rule that automounts a usb device rw and rockbox makes the directories read only and complains that it can't install a theme |
| 21:17:46 | gevaerts | Ashex: rockbox doesn't make anything read only |
| 21:18:16 | Ashex | gevaerts, I meant the utility |
| 21:18:55 | gevaerts | Ashex: that shouldn't do that either. Check your dmesg output for related messages. You may have a corrupted filesystem |
| 21:19:37 | | Join funman [0] (n=fun@rockbox/developer/funman) |
| 21:23:27 | * | linuxstb wonders if anyone is working on mp3-hd - mp3 with a lossless correction file stored in an id3v2 tag... |
| 21:23:43 | linuxstb | I mean working on reverse-engineering mp3-hd... |
| 21:24:11 | funman | linuxstb: how spread is mp3-hd ? (never heard about it) |
| 21:24:20 | Ashex | gevaerts, yep. looks like fs corruptions |
| 21:24:55 | linuxstb | funman: It's relatively new - I would be surprised if it catches on... |
| 21:26:20 | Torne | didn't fraunhofer do something like that before with mp3pro? |
| 21:27:09 | Torne | though not lossless, just 'better' |
| 21:27:13 | merbanan | they did |
| 21:27:22 | merbanan | mp3 with sbr |
| 21:27:43 | Torne | and nobody on earth cared because it was proprietary and nothing played it? :) |
| 21:27:45 | linuxstb | merbanan: Do you know of anyone showing any interest in mp3-hd? Isn't it based on some AAC+correction file format? |
| 21:28:34 | merbanan | no idea |
| 21:29:01 | merbanan | fraunhofer for sure |
| 21:29:42 | Torne | what is the actual use case for these formats? Is it just to be backward compatible with your crappy player without having to transcode? |
| 21:30:00 | Torne | or is there some other benefit i'm missing? :) |
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| 21:43:19 | funman | I'm trying to write recording support for Sansa AMS but the recording thread deadlocks when I start recording :/ |
| 21:43:36 | | Join Hillshum [0] (i=cd7ae838@gateway/web/freenode/x-820713fd56ad7d36) |
| 21:44:23 | funman | i am not sure if the problem is in my code since i don't see any ams-specific functions being called except pcm_rec_dma_get_peak_buffer() |
| 21:46:13 | CIA-71 | New commit by bertrik (r21469): Meizu lcd-m3: whitespace fixes |
| 21:46:36 | | Join evilnick [0] (i=0c140464@gateway/web/freenode/x-654a7803949b6a3a) |
| 21:51:08 | CIA-71 | New commit by pondlife (r21470): Oops. |
| 21:52:49 | | Quit Unhelpful ("ZNC by prozac - http://znc.sourceforge.net") |
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| 21:58:41 | kugel | bertrik: any idea why shotofads decided for USEC_TIMER, and not plain ticks like AMSes do, that way tcc77x wouldn't be excluded |
| 21:58:51 | kugel | ? |
| 21:59:08 | | Quit LambdaCalculus37 () |
| 22:00 |
| 22:00:31 | | Quit jgsprenger (Client Quit) |
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| 22:03:19 | bertrik | kugel, no I don't know, but what do you mean by plain ticks? |
| 22:03:43 | bertrik | I think the idea is not to wait, but to make sure it does a yield once every milisecond |
| 22:03:49 | | Join shotofadds [0] (n=rob@rockbox/developer/shotofadds) |
| 22:04:16 | shotofadds | kugel: the answer is simple the AMS Sansa ports didn't exist when I first wrote that code ;) |
| 22:04:51 | shotofadds | I'd been trying to get yielding to work in that driver for quite some time |
| 22:06:31 | | Quit petur ("Zzzzz") |
| 22:11:48 | | Join ender [0] (i=krneki@foo.eternallybored.org) |
| 22:13:44 | | Quit Hillshum ("Page closed") |
| 22:14:11 | bertrik | I should probably commit the meizu pwm backlight stuff |
| 22:15:04 | | Join heftig [0] (i=jan@2a01:198:3f6:0:21f:3bff:fe53:b08b) |
| 22:16:46 | | Quit ender` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 22:17:32 | | Join fml [0] (n=4fd3e2fc@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-8c558161e301fb50) |
| 22:19:06 | | Join Chesteta [0] (n=Chesteta@67.148.163.64) |
| 22:19:27 | Chesteta | hello, does anyone know when the disk corruption issues began for the ams devices? |
| 22:19:59 | | Join BeChris [0] (i=5c89760a@gateway/web/freenode/x-95a69a6467b0291b) |
| 22:20:40 | bertrik | if there's anyone, it's probably funman who knows |
| 22:20:51 | BeChris | Hello everybody |
| 22:20:53 | Chesteta | I noticed some problems when I tried patch 10344 however there were other patches applied also (I 'added' that one to the other applied patches) and noticed I could not see my SD card |
| 22:21:12 | bertrik | but I think it's only getting better as time goes on, not worse |
| 22:21:13 | fml | Can FS #5080 be closed now that r21464 has been committed? |
| 22:21:37 | Chesteta | then I was gone for the weekend and when I came back and there was posting about disk issues |
| 22:24:41 | Chesteta | oh, so the disk issues have been there all along? (there is no 'new' issue that makes things 'more likely' to be messed up?) |
| 22:24:57 | bertrik | I think patch 10344 is a nice experiment, but has possible stability issues |
| 22:25:00 | linuxstb | fml: I guess so, although it doesn't do what 5080 wanted - highlighting the theme... |
| 22:25:24 | | Quit goffa_ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 22:25:30 | funman | Chesteta: it began when fs#10048 was committed |
| 22:25:40 | Chesteta | ok, thank you |
| 22:25:50 | funman | bertrik: why stability ? |
| 22:26:48 | fml | linuxstb: is it in principle possible to highlight a theme? Is it stored at all? |
| 22:26:52 | bertrik | the datasheet mentions 1.1V but the patch uses 1.05V. Also some time might be needed between switching back to full voltage and boosting. |
| 22:27:37 | funman | you mean after modifying the voltage by I2C ? |
| 22:27:41 | rasher | fml: It's not stored, no. We'd need to store themes when they are selected, which could prove difficult to do reliably |
| 22:28:03 | funman | perhaps saratoga could do measurements and comment on FS #10344 |
| 22:28:04 | | Join goffa_ [0] (n=goffa@216.220.23.105) |
| 22:28:47 | fml | rasher: that's what I thought (that he theme is not stored). All the settings from the theme are loaded, but the name of the theme file is not saved. So I'll close FS #5080. |
| 22:29:17 | kugel | shotofadds: oh you had that fix locally for some time already? |
| 22:29:20 | | Join Zagor [242] (n=bjst@46.35.227.87.static.tab.siw.siwnet.net) |
| 22:29:25 | Chesteta | funman, if you missed my comment earlier; my e280v2 did not see my sd card when I applied 10344 *however* i had other patches applied too so its just something to look into, not necessarily a problem |
| 22:30:24 | rasher | fml: Well we could try to store the name of the theme, but it's not possible to do in the same easy way as the other settings |
| 22:30:29 | funman | Chesteta: i don't want to know about any bug report for storage driver |
| 22:30:30 | rasher | fml: I'm fine with closing it |
| 22:30:55 | Chesteta | ok, understood |
| 22:30:56 | funman | I already know that it doesn't work, and that the problems randomly appear/disappear |
| 22:31:14 | funman | so I think precise bug reports won't help finding the exact cause |
| 22:31:16 | BeChris | Please, I need some help concerning my png plugin |
| 22:31:33 | shotofadds | kugel: yeah, but it was causing a crash until bertrik's fix (the mutex wasn't being initialized properly) |
| 22:31:35 | fml | rasher: IMO it would be easy to store the theme name. The problem is that once you manually change e.g. the font you no more have that theme. |
| 22:32:29 | kugel | fml, linuxstb: the problem with theme files is that it's just a collection of settings. Change one theme setting and it's technically not the theme anymore. Change more and you totally obfuscate it so that it wouldn't make any sense to still select it. There's no reliable way I think |
| 22:32:54 | kugel | shotofadds: Ah, I see. I think with using the normal tick the tcc77x could also be fixed |
| 22:33:04 | | Join faemir [0] (n=faemir@78.33.109.163) |
| 22:33:10 | fml | kugel: exactly what I said |
| 22:33:39 | kugel | although I'm not sure why we've chosen 5ticks |
| 22:33:52 | shotofadds | i was going to ask about 5 ticks vs. 1000us |
| 22:34:24 | shotofadds | I think the best thing is to implement the proper timer on 77x and then they can both use the existing method |
| 22:34:32 | | Quit domonoky (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 22:34:33 | kugel | well, given that 1000us should be 1ms, 5 ticks are 50 times of that |
| 22:34:59 | funman | probably randomly choosed |
| 22:35:27 | kugel | shotofadds: I'm actually not sure if ticks might be preferable or not |
| 22:35:50 | bertrik | where are these 5 ticks you speak of? |
| 22:35:59 | funman | i have not seen latency problems with the ams SD driver |
| 22:36:07 | funman | bertrik: delay before yielding in sd driver |
| 22:36:58 | shotofadds | not "delay before yielding", rather "period between yields" |
| 22:37:13 | kugel | funman: the problem is that other threads might need to run more often |
| 22:37:34 | kugel | for example, the backlight thread runs every 3 ticks while backlight fading |
| 22:37:54 | BryanJacobs | back |
| 22:38:25 | funman | kugel: ok |
| 22:38:33 | kugel | well, every 4 for our targets, but still |
| 22:39:50 | fml | Do we want to have a special WPS token for "skip length" (FS #8965) or is the %St (generic tag for setting values) tag enough? |
| 22:40:08 | fml | I'd like to either commit or reject FS #8965 |
| 22:40:11 | JdGordon| | probbaly not' |
| 22:40:18 | BryanJacobs | linuxstb: you still there? |
| 22:40:43 | fml | JdGordon: was your response for me? |
| 22:41:08 | | Quit BeChris ("Page closed") |
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| 22:42:38 | | Quit perrikwp (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 22:42:38 | linuxstb | BryanJacobs: Yes |
| 22:42:40 | JdGordon| | fml: it was.... I seem to remember a discussion about not adding more tags which would double up... |
| 22:42:44 | kugel | can the %St be used conditionally in some kind? |
| 22:42:49 | JdGordon| | so.. I think %St would be good enough |
| 22:42:57 | | Join perrikwp [0] (n=perrikwp@rrcs-24-172-12-65.midsouth.biz.rr.com) |
| 22:43:07 | BryanJacobs | linuxstb: how about we relax the "always returns 32K contiguous data" restriction? |
| 22:43:23 | | Quit perrikwp (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 22:43:33 | linuxstb | BryanJacobs: That's likely to break a lot of codecs... |
| 22:43:36 | BryanJacobs | we tell the codecs "and I won't give you a fresh chunk until you're done with the one you want" |
| 22:43:40 | Torne | BryanJacobs: that could hurt the performance of a lot of codecs even if they were fixed |
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| 22:43:50 | fml | kugel: the wiki page says that %St can also be used in conditionals |
| 22:44:00 | kugel | so just reject |
| 22:44:09 | | Quit perrikwp (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 22:44:09 | BryanJacobs | well, it only has to be that way for codecs that opt in |
| 22:44:15 | BryanJacobs | the others could have a ring buffer |
| 22:44:30 | Torne | BryanJacobs: did you read my suggestion just after you left? |
| 22:44:37 | BryanJacobs | yes, that's what gave me the idea |
| 22:44:46 | BryanJacobs | I just got through reading the discussion up there |
| 22:45:02 | Torne | well, yah, if you implemented that then the codecs that want to read from multiple files would have to be willing to take the data in the interleaved form |
| 22:45:11 | Torne | but other codecs wouldn't have to change |
| 22:45:26 | BryanJacobs | you said "you'd be wasting the rest of the ram once the mp3s are played" |
| 22:45:29 | BryanJacobs | but that's not accurate |
| 22:45:34 | Torne | hm? |
| 22:45:38 | BryanJacobs | because as the mp3s are played you can start buffering into that space |
| 22:45:48 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 22:46:01 | Torne | nono, i was talking about having the buffers allocated seperately as Mikachu suggested |
| 22:46:05 | BryanJacobs | ah, ok |
| 22:46:07 | BryanJacobs | my mistake |
| 22:46:08 | Torne | if you itnerleave them then yes you can keep streaming into fresh space |
| 22:46:23 | BryanJacobs | I don't see a problem with this scheme |
| 22:46:33 | Torne | and when you get to the point that you are using the whole of ram for the itnerleaved buffers, you wrap each buffer seperately |
| 22:46:43 | | Quit Rondom (Remote closed the connection) |
| 22:46:51 | BryanJacobs | "wrap each buffer separately"? |
| 22:46:57 | Zagor | Torne: I didn't get how the correction works if the guess turns out wrong |
| 22:47:00 | BryanJacobs | they don't "wrap" at all |
| 22:47:11 | Torne | they do if the files combined are bigger than ram.. |
| 22:47:19 | Torne | Zagor: you don't |
| 22:47:30 | Zagor | ok, what do you do? |
| 22:47:34 | Torne | Zagor: if you run out of one file you start buffering more of that file into the space where it was |
| 22:47:37 | BryanJacobs | Torne: you don't have to store a chunk that's later in the file later in the buffer |
| 22:47:47 | BryanJacobs | it doesn't have to be linear like that |
| 22:47:53 | BryanJacobs | the codec just asks for the "next" chunk |
| 22:47:57 | Torne | you mean overwrite played parts of the other file |
| 22:48:01 | BryanJacobs | which could be higher or lower in RAM |
| 22:48:05 | BryanJacobs | yes, that's what I mean |
| 22:48:16 | Torne | yah. but i'm talking about not bothering to keep that level of accounting |
| 22:48:17 | BryanJacobs | what's "wrapping" by that definition? |
| 22:48:27 | BryanJacobs | I think it might be beneficial to do so |
| 22:48:28 | Torne | exactly like it was a normal ring buffer |
| 22:48:41 | Torne | when you get to the end just wrap around ram and start from the beginning |
| 22:48:48 | Torne | offset by the stride amount if you aren't the first one :) |
| 22:48:58 | Torne | such that you would ventually overwrite your own data, but not the other files's |
| 22:49:04 | BryanJacobs | but then you have this complicated "if-legacy-stuff-here" logic |
| 22:49:13 | Torne | i.e. you literally interpret ram as two ring buffers |
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| 22:49:18 | BryanJacobs | and you can't arbitrarily change the ratio of buffering the files |
| 22:49:20 | Torne | which happen to be interleaved on a fixed buffer size |
| 22:49:23 | BryanJacobs | and you can't buffer more than two files |
| 22:49:25 | Torne | hm? |
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| 22:49:30 | Torne | sure you can |
| 22:49:34 | Torne | just interleave it 3 ways |
| 22:49:37 | Torne | or 4 ways |
| 22:49:38 | Torne | or whatever. |
| 22:49:45 | Torne | and you can do a new ratio/split for each file |
| 22:49:53 | BryanJacobs | I don't get it; only one file can have the block at buffer address 0 |
| 22:49:55 | Torne | i don't mean doing this permanently |
| 22:50:01 | BryanJacobs | oh, I do. |
| 22:50:05 | Torne | yah |
| 22:50:10 | Torne | that's my *entire point* :) |
| 22:50:20 | Torne | you start doing this at the point in teh buffer where the last track ends and you start buffering the multifile track |
| 22:50:32 | Torne | and you stop and go back to linear buffering afterward |
| 22:50:35 | BryanJacobs | but then you could get another "traditional" track after it |
| 22:50:37 | Torne | or re-split with different parameters if needed |
| 22:50:43 | Torne | yes. so? |
| 22:50:49 | Torne | you start from the later of the two buffer ends |
| 22:51:07 | Torne | and just ignore the space inbetween until the data has been played to catch up |
| 22:51:11 | Torne | i'm not suggesting this is optimal, but it's a minimal amount of accounting |
| 22:51:27 | Torne | and it means regular buffering bhaves the same as now |
| 22:51:33 | Torne | so there's no effect on codecs that aren't doing this |
| 22:51:40 | Zagor | I quite like it |
| 22:51:50 | Zagor | ...I think :) |
| 22:51:58 | Torne | if i had a whiteboard it would be easier :0 |
| 22:52:07 | BryanJacobs | ah - I get it |
| 22:52:07 | BryanJacobs | I'm not sure this is as efficient as arbitrarily chained chunks, though |
| 22:52:07 | BryanJacobs | and it might be harder to manage |
| 22:52:13 | Torne | it's not as efficient, no |
| 22:52:19 | Torne | but the point is that it prbably doesn't matter a lot |
| 22:52:28 | BryanJacobs | I still like the idea of having a chunk-list in the space not being used by the traditional track |
| 22:52:28 | BryanJacobs | *track(s) |
| 22:52:46 | BryanJacobs | I think you might be right |
| 22:52:46 | Torne | yah. but there are reasons why rockbox traditionally avoids anything remotely malloc-like :0 |
| 22:53:12 | Torne | you could just reuse any spare bit *in the gap*, actually |
| 22:53:15 | Torne | rather than wrapping very strictly |
| 22:53:27 | Torne | just use up any played block that's after an unplayed block |
| 22:53:34 | BryanJacobs | <shrug> I intuitively tend toward the malloc-like solution but don't care enough to mind doing it the other way |
| 22:53:44 | Torne | such that the portion of the buffer you are using is generally as compact as possible |
| 22:53:51 | Zagor | we'll get one watermark per file. that's sure to cause amusement :-) |
| 22:53:56 | Torne | in order to leave the most space to go back to being a regular ring buffer afterwards. |
| 22:54:01 | kugel | Zagor: something to test for the build script? I'm currently running my 64bit dual core |
| 22:54:01 | BryanJacobs | Zagor: ??? |
| 22:54:03 | Torne | that's effectively what it's doing |
| 22:54:15 | Torne | youare basically just allocating by prioritising keeping allocated blocks near each other |
| 22:54:18 | | Quit einhirn ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") |
| 22:54:26 | Torne | i.e. maximisng size of contiguous free space. |
| 22:54:41 | | Join uPRiSePoDDeR [0] (n=4454db77@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-b534f25ce3eb883d) |
| 22:54:43 | BryanJacobs | yeah, my metric was minimizing total size of free space |
| 22:54:53 | uPRiSePoDDeR | hey whats up |
| 22:54:57 | Zagor | kugel: maybe. there still seems to be the issue of some build dirs not being removed. |
| 22:54:58 | BryanJacobs | ie keeping as much stuff buffered as possible |
| 22:55:07 | Torne | yes, you can do taht as well |
| 22:55:08 | uPRiSePoDDeR | how yall doin |
| 22:55:09 | | Quit fml ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 22:55:12 | Torne | while you are playing you want to use all the ram |
| 22:55:21 | Torne | but my point is as you approach the end of the file you want the in-use bits to be squished up together |
| 22:55:29 | Torne | so you can start buffering the next file linearly |
| 22:55:35 | Torne | instead of having to keep doing malloc-like operations |
| 22:55:41 | uPRiSePoDDeR | what makes the 1g so fucking different from the 2g 2 not be decrypted and hackable? |
| 22:55:47 | BryanJacobs | Torne: agreed. |
| 22:55:58 | Torne | so yes. you could still allocate non-lienarly, you are right |
| 22:56:08 | Unhelpful | is there really no way, without full decoding, to determine which parts would need to be interleaved? |
| 22:56:09 | Zagor | BryanJacobs: with interleaved buffers, we have one pointer for each file. and they will not all reach the spinup watermark at the same time. |
| 22:56:09 | Torne | but you want to be careful about the algorithm for it :) |
| 22:56:15 | BryanJacobs | Zagor: ah. |
| 22:56:21 | Unhelpful | uPRiSePoDDeR: apple is what made them so different. |
| 22:56:25 | BryanJacobs | Torne: agreed. |
| 22:56:36 | BryanJacobs | linuxstb: sound good to you? |
| 22:56:38 | bertrik | markun, some comments in system-s5l8700.c seem wrong (inconsistent with the datasheet), where do they come from? |
| 22:56:46 | kugel | Zagor: I'm not getting a build |
| 22:56:53 | bertrik | I mean, was this code copied from some other target? |
| 22:57:02 | uPRiSePoDDeR | yeah but 2g is freakin classic now and its so old whyd they make the code so different? |
| 22:57:08 | heftig | uPRiSePoDDeR: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPodLinux#Compatibility |
| 22:57:11 | Zagor | kugel: no I don't have it running. I haven't figured out what to try yet. |
| 22:57:18 | Torne | uPRiSePoDDeR: How should we know? |
| 22:57:26 | uPRiSePoDDeR | will the 2g ever be crackable? |
| 22:57:34 | kugel | alright, I guess I can keep it running, and it will just pick it up once you do something? |
| 22:57:37 | Unhelpful | presumably so that we can't run non-apple code on it :P |
| 22:57:42 | Torne | how should we know :) |
| 22:57:42 | uPRiSePoDDeR | cuzz i'd like 2 stick some porn videos on mine |
| 22:57:47 | Zagor | kugel: yes |
| 22:57:51 | | Quit Llorean ("Leaving.") |
| 22:57:54 | BryanJacobs | uPRiSePoDDeR: it's so old, most people don't care anymore |
| 22:57:58 | kugel | great, /me's already loving the new system |
| 22:58:11 | gevaerts | uPRiSePoDDeR: please have a look at the channel guidelines. We do want real words here |
| 22:58:16 | uPRiSePoDDeR | no its so old it SHOULD be crackable it fucking pisses me off |
| 22:58:39 | * | BryanJacobs laughs at black-and-white port on a 1G |
| 22:58:43 | BryanJacobs | *porn |
| 22:58:43 | rasher | Zagor: I did a slight modification of runclient.sh - I'd be surprised if it messes something up, but I guess you might want to keep your eyes open |
| 22:58:46 | Bagder | Zagor: do you have it setup somewhere on the server? |
| 22:58:51 | heftig | uPRiSePoDDeR: old does not mean crackable |
| 22:58:58 | Torne | you realise we passed the point where properly implemented encryption is unbreakable by classical computers many, may years ago, right? |
| 22:59:10 | Mikachu | so this is a good example of something that could be in the op guidelines for what is kickable |
| 22:59:25 | uPRiSePoDDeR | i know its juss stupid how they made the code so different is that why i paid 712 for my LTD. addition red 1? |
| 22:59:44 | BryanJacobs | Torne: tell AACS that |
| 22:59:58 | Unhelpful | BryanJacobs: no, *don't* tell them. ;) |
| 23:00 |
| 23:00:02 | BryanJacobs | "properly implemented" is very hard when you're not restricting people's ability to view their content |
| 23:00:06 | BryanJacobs | Unhelpful: heh |
| 23:00:08 | Torne | BryanJacobs: DRM is never properly implemented ;) |
| 23:00:10 | rasher | uPRiSePoDDeR: You're arguing against facts here. There's nothing we can do to change reality. |
| 23:00:20 | | Quit krazykit` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 23:00:36 | uPRiSePoDDeR | ight my bad lol |
| 23:00:39 | Torne | BryanJacobs: even if AACS had no weaknesses at all people could still dump a new drive every week if they wanted to :) |
| 23:00:53 | Torne | it's effort, but it's not ultimately difficult :) |
| 23:01:01 | BryanJacobs | Torne: actually, look at Nokia's DRM... their applications are RSA signed |
| 23:01:07 | Torne | BryanJacobs: i work for nokia:) |
| 23:01:10 | BryanJacobs | I think they did it pretty solidly |
| 23:01:11 | BryanJacobs | oh wow |
| 23:01:16 | * | BryanJacobs didn't know that |
| 23:01:17 | Torne | i'm a security analyst in fact :) |
| 23:01:29 | Torne | and i've disassembled a lot of the programs people ahve written to crack the security on S60 |
| 23:01:29 | * | BryanJacobs feels happy he wasn't dissing Nokia's security |
| 23:01:29 | uPRiSePoDDeR | what is the best texting phone to get from verizon my dad wants 2 switch soon? i know this is random |
| 23:01:33 | Torne | and we have a long way to go yet :) |
| 23:01:38 | Erant | Is everything signed? (Savegames etc) |
| 23:01:40 | krazykit | uPRiSePoDDeR, it's offtopic. ask someone else |
| 23:01:44 | krazykit | er, somewhere else |
| 23:01:56 | uPRiSePoDDeR | k |
| 23:01:59 | BryanJacobs | Torne: I personally always wondered how those chinese people managed to generate devcerts |
| 23:02:48 | rasher | The DRM talk is also going quickly offtopic guys. |
| 23:02:55 | BryanJacobs | rasher: already moved |
| 23:03:21 | uPRiSePoDDeR | so if its offtopic we cant talk about it? |
| 23:03:30 | AlexP | That is what off topic means, yes |
| 23:03:44 | uPRiSePoDDeR | doesnt that sound really stupid? |
| 23:03:59 | AlexP | What, your question? |
| 23:04:07 | Mikachu | zing |
| 23:04:16 | uPRiSePoDDeR | like if u were talkin with friends they wouldnt yell at you cant go offtopic |
| 23:04:27 | AlexP | This isn't a social channel |
| 23:04:27 | Mikachu | you're not talking with friends |
| 23:04:34 | AlexP | It is for support and development |
| 23:04:37 | gevaerts | uPRiSePoDDeR: I told you about real words before |
| 23:05:07 | uPRiSePoDDeR | no im afraid you didn't i dont speak NERD aka unsocialize laungage |
| 23:05:12 | Bagder | uPRiSePoDDeR: this is #rockbox, we are on-topic even with friends |
| 23:05:21 | AlexP | uPRiSePoDDeR: Please stop now |
| 23:05:45 | uPRiSePoDDeR | lol im really scared |
| 23:06:27 | uPRiSePoDDeR | . |
| 23:06:39 | Mikachu | does this count as understanding the rules and ignoring them? |
| 23:06:45 | Mode | "#rockbox +o Bagder " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 23:06:50 | Torne | can someone just remove it already? :) |
| 23:06:51 | Mode | "#rockbox +o AlexP " by Bagder (n=daniel@rockbox/developer/bagder) |
| 23:06:56 | uPRiSePoDDeR | was that a mute? |
| 23:06:58 | Mode | "#rockbox +o rasher " by Bagder (n=daniel@rockbox/developer/bagder) |
| 23:07:04 | Mode | "#rockbox +o Zagor " by Bagder (n=daniel@rockbox/developer/bagder) |
| 23:07:32 | uPRiSePoDDeR | ^wut does that mean? |
| 23:07:41 | Mode | "#rockbox +o Horscht " by Bagder (n=daniel@rockbox/developer/bagder) |
| 23:07:47 | AlexP | That you can be muted, kicked or banned by anyone who is op |
| 23:07:52 | AlexP | So please behave |
| 23:08:11 | uPRiSePoDDeR | lol i got a warning go ahead and ban me |
| 23:08:33 | AlexP | I'd rather not, I'd rather you just followed the guidelines |
| 23:08:39 | | Join n1s [0] (n=n1s@rockbox/developer/n1s) |
| 23:09:06 | | Quit uPRiSePoDDeR (Excess Flood) |
| 23:09:24 | * | BryanJacobs laughs |
| 23:09:33 | | Join uPRiSePoDDeR [0] (n=4454db77@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-fa1a78ee8da25fcd) |
| 23:09:53 | uPRiSePoDDeR | lol was that a kick |
| 23:09:56 | uPRiSePoDDeR | a |
| 23:09:57 | uPRiSePoDDeR | s |
| 23:09:59 | uPRiSePoDDeR | f |
| 23:10:10 | Kick | (#rockbox uPRiSePoDDeR :Bagder) by Bagder!n=daniel@rockbox/developer/bagder |
| 23:10:20 | Bagder | _that_ was a kick |
| 23:10:33 | | Quit merbanan (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 23:10:47 | * | BryanJacobs laughs harder |
| 23:11:01 | Mode | "#rockbox +b %*!n=4454db77@* " by rasher (n=rasher@rockbox/developer/rasher) |
| 23:11:42 | agaffney | I doubt that will work |
| 23:11:50 | agaffney | it's probably a session identifier or something like that |
| 23:11:55 | Mikachu | no, it's his ip in hex |
| 23:12:01 | Mikachu | i think Bagder knows how his own webirc works :) |
| 23:12:03 | agaffney | ah :P |
| 23:12:13 | AlexP | Mikachu: Except that was rasher |
| 23:12:26 | * | Bagder grins |
| 23:12:27 | Mikachu | i only looked at the a and er parts |
| 23:12:30 | Horscht | let me just.... remove that |
| 23:12:34 | Mode | "#rockbox -o Horscht " by Horscht (n=Horscht2@xbmc/user/horscht) |
| 23:12:42 | Horscht | it felt kind of akward |
| 23:12:48 | agaffney | heh |
| 23:12:57 | | Join perrikwp_ [0] (n=perrikwp@rrcs-24-172-12-65.midsouth.biz.rr.com) |
| 23:13:15 | Mikachu | i think rasher knows how Bagder's webirc works too though |
| 23:13:24 | Mode | "#rockbox -o AlexP " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 23:14:07 | Mikachu | just for reference, you probably shouldn't make me op, i would have kickbanned him 10 minutes ago :) |
| 23:16:11 | funman | FS #10371 - Recording for Sansa AMS (not working) |
| 23:16:30 | Mode | "#rockbox +o gevaerts " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 23:16:31 | AlexP | Mikachu: Noted :) |
| 23:16:35 | Mode | "#rockbox -o gevaerts " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 23:16:38 | Mode | "#rockbox -o rasher " by rasher (n=rasher@rockbox/developer/rasher) |
| 23:18:33 | Mode | "#rockbox +o rasher " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 23:18:44 | Mode | "#rockbox -b %*!n=4454db77@* " by rasher (n=rasher@rockbox/developer/rasher) |
| 23:18:48 | Mode | "#rockbox -o rasher " by rasher (n=rasher@rockbox/developer/rasher) |
| 23:20:25 | | Quit dfkt ("-= SysReset 2.53=- Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.") |
| 23:21:09 | | Join kadoban [0] (n=mud@cpe-24-93-17-195.rochester.res.rr.com) |
| 23:22:31 | kugel | is the current_tick sort of guaranteed to start at 0? |
| 23:22:58 | kugel | so that I could a tick counter initialize at 0, instead of making it global just to init it with current_tick in another function? |
| 23:23:18 | Zagor | Bagder: did you see I set up buildmaster.rockbox.org and changed the client for it? |
| 23:23:27 | kugel | funman: what do you mean with crashes at 8px font, it actually works with other fonts? |
| 23:23:55 | Bagder | Zagor: I did, I was just curious if you have (where?) a dedicated server root for it |
| 23:24:07 | funman | with the default font it locks when starting recording, not as soon as entering the screen |
| 23:24:18 | Mode | "#rockbox -o Zagor " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 23:24:22 | Bagder | I thought about invoking the server and check a few things |
| 23:24:24 | kugel | the "default" font isn't 8px |
| 23:24:24 | Mode | "#rockbox -o Bagder " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 23:24:35 | Zagor | (taking it privately) |
| 23:24:41 | funman | kugel: yes |
| 23:25:14 | kugel | ah, reading your sentence correctly helps a lot |
| 23:25:20 | kugel | weird thing anyway |
| 23:26:04 | funman | yeah i just wanted to point that something weird happens ;) |
| 23:27:50 | | Join hillshum [0] (n=hillshum@75-165-235-206.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 23:27:52 | | Quit ender (" NOTICE: Thank you for noticing this new notice. Your noticing it has been noted. And will be reported to the authorities.") |
| 23:28:56 | | Quit perrikwp (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 23:28:58 | kugel | gevaerts: I'm wondering if we could at least go to charging mode if CONFIG_CHARGING is something but HAVE_USB_STACK is undefined |
| 23:29:16 | kugel | going to the usb screen is just the worst thing to do actually |
| 23:29:23 | kugel | (speaking of AMSes now) |
| 23:29:48 | | Part BryanJacobs |
| 23:29:53 | funman | myself I wonder why HAVE_USB_STACK is required for rebooting into OF when usb is inserted |
| 23:30:12 | kugel | that too |
| 23:30:38 | gevaerts | because you're supposed to implement the usb stack ;) |
| 23:31:01 | gevaerts | Seriouslu though, mostly historical reasons |
| 23:31:02 | kugel | it isn't of any use without usb, is it? |
| 23:31:50 | gevaerts | If you want rebooting, I think the only bit of the USB stack you really need is the usb_detect() function |
| 23:32:00 | kugel | the historical reason that you did the usb stack a seperate define and implement it earlier on targets so that you can hide the effective binsize usage of USB? =) |
| 23:33:01 | gevaerts | partly, yes :) |
| 23:33:11 | kugel | usb detection actually works already |
| 23:33:50 | | Join LambdaCalculus37 [0] (n=rmenes@rockbox/staff/LambdaCalculus37) |
| 23:33:58 | | Quit BlakeJohnson86 ("Leaving.") |
| 23:35:11 | AlexP | Bagder / Zagor: Should clients join half way through a run? |
| 23:35:23 | Zagor | sure |
| 23:35:27 | AlexP | So if there was one happening, and I started one, it'd join in? |
| 23:35:32 | Zagor | clients can come and go as they like |
| 23:35:40 | AlexP | nice |
| 23:35:45 | gevaerts | Bagder / Zagor: what's the (intended) difference between clientname and username? |
| 23:35:47 | Bagder | yes, a client will get builds immediately if during a build round |
| 23:36:00 | | Join perrikwp [0] (n=perrikwp@rrcs-24-172-12-65.midsouth.biz.rr.com) |
| 23:36:01 | Bagder | gevaerts: the user is you, you may run many clients |
| 23:36:03 | * | AlexP starts a client |
| 23:36:05 | Zagor | gevaerts: username is the same for all your machines. clientname is different. |
| 23:36:08 | gevaerts | ok |
| 23:36:27 | | Quit perrikwp (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 23:36:36 | | Join BlakeJohnson86 [0] (n=bjohnson@c-24-118-162-123.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 23:36:48 | | Join perrikwp [0] (n=perrikwp@rrcs-24-172-12-65.midsouth.biz.rr.com) |
| 23:37:09 | Mikachu | is it plugged in for real now? |
| 23:37:15 | | Quit perrikwp (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 23:37:29 | Bagder | no, it'll come and go for a while |
| 23:37:34 | Zagor | FYI: we still have the bug where it sometimes fails to remove the build dir. |
| 23:37:35 | | Join perrikwp [0] (n=perrikwp@rrcs-24-172-12-65.midsouth.biz.rr.com) |
| 23:38:02 | | Quit perrikwp (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 23:38:22 | | Join perrikwp [0] (n=perrikwp@rrcs-24-172-12-65.midsouth.biz.rr.com) |
| 23:38:49 | | Quit perrikwp (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 23:38:50 | Zagor | I don't understand how that happens. it runs "rm -r" on the dir, yet it stays there. Very puzzling. And it's not a permission thing since the same script creates the dir. |
| 23:39:09 | | Join perrikwp [0] (n=perrikwp@rrcs-24-172-12-65.midsouth.biz.rr.com) |
| 23:39:16 | Mikachu | output ls -l and the arguments you give to rm every time, and see if it looks sane |
| 23:39:36 | | Quit perrikwp (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 23:39:42 | * | gevaerts adds a client |
| 23:39:57 | | Join perrikwp [0] (n=perrikwp@rrcs-24-172-12-65.midsouth.biz.rr.com) |
| 23:40:00 | kugel | Zagor: I always use rm -rf to delete dirs |
| 23:40:14 | Mikachu | also, there's no point saving $olddir in runclient.sh unless someone runs it with "source" (which is a bit silly) |
| 23:40:15 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: Including / ? :P |
| 23:40:19 | kugel | also, I think if you leave the trailing slash, the dir itself isn't deleted |
| 23:40:20 | | Join timc [0] (n=aoeu@116.3.7.51) |
| 23:40:23 | LambdaCalculus37 | (Sorry, couldn't resist) |
| 23:40:34 | Zagor | Mikachu: olddir? |
| 23:40:36 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: it's ok, you're forgiven :) |
| 23:40:48 | | Join perrikwp__ [0] (n=perrikwp@rrcs-24-172-12-65.midsouth.biz.rr.com) |
| 23:40:56 | Mikachu | Zagor: it does olddir="`pwd`" in runclient.sh, then cd "$olddir" at the end of the script |
| 23:41:00 | Mikachu | after which point the shell process exits :) |
| 23:41:11 | Mikachu | very unimportant though, you can keep it if you like |
| 23:41:41 | | Join perrikwp___ [0] (n=perrikwp@rrcs-24-172-12-65.midsouth.biz.rr.com) |
| 23:41:41 | *** | Alert Mode level 1 |
| 23:41:41 | DBUG | Sent KICK perrikwp_ to server |
| 23:41:41 | DBUG | Sent KICK perrikwp to server |
| 23:41:41 | *** | Alert Mode level 2 |
| 23:41:41 | DBUG | sent MODE #rockbox +b *!*n=perrik*@*.midsouth.biz.rr.com |
| 23:41:41 | DBUG | Sent KICK perrikwp__ to server |
| 23:41:41 | DBUG | Enqueued KICK perrikwp___ |
| 23:41:41 | *** | Alert Mode level 3 |
| 23:41:42 | DBUG | Q-Sent KICK perrikwp___ to server |
| 23:41:42 | Kick | (#rockbox perrikwp_ :*bang* too many joined users) by logbot!n=bjst@rockbox/bot/logbot |
| 23:41:42 | *** | Alert Mode level 4 |
| 23:41:42 | Kick | (#rockbox perrikwp :*bang* too many joined users) by logbot!n=bjst@rockbox/bot/logbot |
| 23:41:42 | *** | Alert Mode level 5 |
| 23:41:42 | Mode | "#rockbox +b *!*n=perrik*@*.midsouth.biz.rr.com " by logbot (n=bjst@rockbox/bot/logbot) |
| 23:41:42 | Kick | (#rockbox perrikwp__ :*bang* too many joined users) by logbot!n=bjst@rockbox/bot/logbot |
| 23:41:42 | *** | Alert Mode level 6 |
| 23:41:42 | Kick | (#rockbox perrikwp___ :*bang* too many joined users) by logbot!n=bjst@rockbox/bot/logbot |
| 23:41:42 | *** | Alert Mode level 7 |
| 23:41:53 | kugel | duh |
| 23:42:15 | | Quit Hendrik_ ("ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.0.11/2009060215]") |
| 23:42:16 | | Join safetydan [0] (n=deverton@rockbox/developer/safetydan) |
| 23:42:28 | Zagor | Mikachu: oh, I didn't see that. rasher added it. |
| 23:42:33 | Mikachu | ah |
| 23:43:13 | rasher | Hrm, yeah that's not very useful |
| 23:43:19 | kugel | how about unbanning? |
| 23:43:25 | Zagor | rasher: I must admit I don't see the point :) |
| 23:43:47 | rasher | Zagor: With the cd "`dirname $0`", or with the olddir stuff? |
| 23:44:23 | Zagor | trying to be smarter than the user, I think :) |
| 23:44:48 | kugel | is this ban intended? |
| 23:45:06 | | Quit n1s (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 23:45:09 | gevaerts | kugel: it's automatic |
| 23:45:17 | Mikachu | does it unban automatically too? |
| 23:45:23 | kugel | was it always like that? |
| 23:45:34 | kugel | I figured that it's automatic |
| 23:45:41 | rasher | Zagor: the script requires that you're sitting in that dir, so why not make sure? |
| 23:45:42 | Mikachu | you could just ban *_ in the first place |
| 23:45:46 | | Join icebrian [0] (n=icebrian@a83-132-86-2.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 23:45:49 | #>> | "is an old battle bot, so it can be a bit harsh" by Zagor (n=bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor) |
| 23:45:55 | gevaerts | not always. logbot tends to lose its op status every now and then |
| 23:45:58 | Mikachu | rasher: if you're in the dir, but the script isn't, you broke it :) |
| 23:46:01 | kugel | Mikachu: not a good idea |
| 23:46:06 | Mikachu | *__ then |
| 23:46:11 | funman | neither |
| 23:46:13 | kugel | still not :) |
| 23:46:24 | rasher | Mikachu: say if I run /home/rasher/somedir/runclient.sh from cron, the cd is very helpful |
| 23:46:28 | Zagor | rasher: I'd rather have the script complain than trying to fix it |
| 23:46:32 | | Join kperri [0] (n=18ac0c41@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-0bf2754fea51452c) |
| 23:46:41 | Mikachu | rasher: running a script that has while true from cron is not the best idea ;) but sure |
| 23:46:51 | rasher | Mikachu: @reboot |
| 23:47:35 | Zagor | rasher: run (cd /home/rasher/somedir && sh runclient.sh) instead |
| 23:48:04 | rasher | What's the argument against it? |
| 23:48:18 | Mikachu | cd myrockboxcheckout; ~/scripts/runclient.sh |
| 23:49:00 | Mikachu | or if pwd is longer than PATH_MAX ;) |
| 23:49:14 | rasher | The script complains about something it *knows* how to fix. That's just silly if you ask me |
| 23:49:49 | Ctcp | Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood |
| 23:49:49 | * | hillshum lets his system update |
| 23:50:01 | * | rasher shrugs |
| 23:50:05 | rasher | Feel free to remove |
| 23:50:49 | Zagor | it doesn't know. the user could run it as Mikachu says. I don't think it's a good idea, but the auto-fix would not fix it- |
| 23:51:23 | Mikachu | you could make the cd conditional on [ -f rbclient.pl ] but that could be a bit too magic |
| 23:51:43 | *** | Alert Mode OFF |
| 23:51:43 | Zagor | hence I'd rather have it complain that something seems odd and have the user do it right instead. |
| 23:52:11 | kugel | afterall it's for build servers that shouldn't do strange stuff anyway |
| 23:52:28 | Mikachu | and instead of while true, you might want while sleep 60 or something, in case i break my perl installation, that script will busyloop |
| 23:52:35 | * | gevaerts isn't entirely sure how the new build system fixes the trust issue. People may not see the incoming ssh connections anymore, but the update is not authenticated, so could be defeated by dns attacks |
| 23:52:56 | Mikachu | you mean the svn update? |
| 23:53:05 | gevaerts | no, the build script update |
| 23:53:50 | Zagor | gah, I am an idiot. WNOHANG is not a good flag to use for waitpid if you really want to wait. copy/paste error :( |
| 23:54:14 | rasher | Automatic updates won't work on cygwin due to windows' file locking shenanigans by the by |
| 23:54:15 | Mikachu | boo zagor, you suck |
| 23:54:40 | Zagor | rasher: ah, right |
| 23:54:43 | AlexP | build servers on cygwin doesn't sound a brilliant idea anyway |
| 23:55:09 | gevaerts | AlexP: maybe they will be needed for rbutil builds? |
| 23:55:09 | kugel | we could reject those outright imo |
| 23:55:25 | AlexP | gevaerts: hmmm, could be |
| 23:55:43 | kugel | you don't need cygwin for that AFAIK, just mingw |
| 23:55:44 | Zagor | gevaerts: yes, that is an issue. we discussed using SSL certificates for everything, but we're starting simple. |
| 23:55:59 | | Quit kperri ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)") |
| 23:56:46 | rasher | Zagor: runclient.sh could check for newrbclient.pl before running rbclient.pl I guess |
| 23:56:49 | Mikachu | if you're worried about dns poisoning you need to secure the svn connection too, otherwise some joker can put rm -rf / in the makefile |
| 23:57:32 | Zagor | yup. there are many holes. |
| 23:57:44 | gevaerts | Zagor: my build servers are VMs, so damage will be limited anyway. I just find it a bit ironic that people like this for its enhanced accountability (no external logins ever!) while actually being less secure :) |
| 23:57:57 | Mikachu | but i think the target group is a little too small to motivate writing an exploit :) |
| 23:58:00 | rasher | Hopefully people would set up a separate user for it |
| 23:58:34 | Zagor | gevaerts: I wouldn't say less secure. but not more either. the nice new thing is rather the more direct control you have, where you can start and stop as you like. |
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