#rockbox 2009-08-23

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#rockbox log for 2009-08-23

00:01:46		Join Kumool [0] (n=Khwerz@adsl-72-50-64-150.prtc.net)
00:05:19		Part Grahack
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00:18:38	jtrenchard	Hello, any developers who could help me with my iriver H10, latest build lcd isn't working properly.
00:20:38		Join saratoga [0] (i=9803c6dd@gateway/web/freenode/x-utcowiiodtyihczn)
00:21:07	pixelma	what happens and when?
00:21:53	jtrenchard	Basically when I turn on my player the screen seems all out of sync.
00:22:26	jtrenchard	I wrote a bug report (FS #10557) for it if anybody is interested.
00:26:20	pixelma	hmm, I have no idea and don't have an H10, guess you have to stick around with this to get an answer
00:26:23		Quit ender` (" The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is like an eggs-and-ham breakfast: the chicken was 'involved' - the p")
00:26:42	jtrenchard	ok, thanks anyway
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00:34:26	kugel	jtrenchard: r22462 works?
00:34:43	kugel	I doubt changes to rbutil break a lcd.
00:35:16	jtrenchard	yes, it does work, r22464 and r22466 don't work though.
00:35:41		Join stripwax [0] (n=Miranda@87-194-34-169.bethere.co.uk)
00:37:49	pixelma	umm... except he gets really the wrong build installed (for the big H10)?
00:38:24		Part eulerphi
00:39:00	pixelma	jtrenchard: can you look into rockbox-info.txt of a build that doesn't work (from your computer), it is in the .rockbox folder
00:39:19	jtrenchard	ok, let me just reload rockbox to a broken build
00:39:41	pixelma	you could already take that text file from the sim
00:39:46	pixelma	err... zip
00:40:11	jtrenchard	oh, ok
00:40:28	pixelma	although I don't know if that zip is stored somewhere by the Utility
00:40:49	pixelma	or if - then where
00:41:01	jtrenchard	ok, i'm in the .txt, what should I be looking for
00:41:30	saratoga	just pastebin the whole thing
00:41:34	jtrenchard	ok
00:42:50	jtrenchard	http://pastebin.ca/1539557
00:42:53	pixelma	the Target: line at the top is what I think could be interesting
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00:43:18	jtrenchard	"Target: h10" is that right then?
00:45:40	saratoga	DIRIVER_H10 is for the 20GB or larger HD based one
00:45:45	pixelma	hmm... I can't see a difference between small and big H10 builds there at the moment
00:46:06	saratoga	see tools/configure line 1182
00:46:45	saratoga	is that the H10 you have?
00:47:18	pixelma	I compare to a rockbox-info.txt from an 5/6GB H10 I downloaded from the current build page
00:47:50	pixelma	saratoga: he said he had a small on
00:47:53	pixelma	e
00:47:53	robin0800	jtrenchard: there is a 5GB and a 20Gb which do you have?
00:48:06	jtrenchard	I have a 5gb
00:48:07	CIA-61	New commit by 03mcuelenaere (r22467): Touchscreen list handling: ignore presses close to the scrollbar when it's on the right, this is similar as how it's handled when the scrollbar is on ...
00:50:25	PSPdemon	mcuelenaere: so the 777+ should have the same compat as the 777 right?
00:50:43	saratoga	well that svn commit slowed my building to a crawl, but looking at the makefiles, I'm pretty sure the defines in that pastebin are for the large H10
00:50:50	mcuelenaere	PSPdemon: yes, AFAICS the VX777+ seems to be completely the same as the VX777
00:51:04	mcuelenaere	(which isn't true for all Onda devices, like the VX787 has a Rockchip)
00:51:19	PSPdemon	yea and the 777LE is cc1600 based
00:51:22	mcuelenaere	true
00:51:40	pixelma	rockbox-info.txt has Target: h10_5 in yesterday's daily build, the current build only has h10 - even for the 5/6GB zip, and the file is noticably larger (over 1MB)
00:51:46	PSPdemon	im guessing thats the one you got it confused for
00:52:20	saratoga	pixelma: just compiled it and todays build is definately wrong
00:52:25	pixelma	I could imagine that domonoky1's commit screwed something up in a way that a big H10 build gets packaged for the small one too
00:52:33	PSPdemon	my old sansa broke so im looking into possibly getting one of those onda's as a replacement
00:52:45	kugel	mcuelenaere: Hm, why not let it scroll instead of having dead zones?
00:53:03	mcuelenaere	PSPdemon: well they're still unsupported, but Rockbox works pretty well on them
00:53:07	saratoga	rockbox.org has Target: h10 while my build gets Target: h10_5gb
00:53:10	PSPdemon	how about audio?
00:53:43	saratoga	kugel: i wondered about the Sansa e200 keymap if it could be changed to shutdown if I hold power and menu at the same time?
00:53:53	PSPdemon	so far by the way it seems most everything works on it
00:53:54	saratoga	evidently my fingers are too large since i often hold both and the player does nothing
00:54:07	pixelma	saratoga: that's what was in yesterday's daily too (which is actually r22462-090822)
00:54:11	saratoga	or is power + menu already mapped to something?
00:54:11	mcuelenaere	kugel: the dead zones are all the corners, for example when I'm scrolling using the scrollbar it could make the 'pointer' jump a bit to the left (into the list itself). By ignoring that part I don't accidentaly press anything
00:54:29	mcuelenaere	PSPdemon: audio works, as far as the hardware allows it to
00:54:51	mcuelenaere	s/all the corners/all the borders/
00:54:59	kugel	saratoga: should be possible, but I wouldn't want that in SVN
00:55:14	saratoga	whats your reasoning?
00:55:15	mcuelenaere	they're not literally 'dead', but they don't linearly scale back to LCD coordinates
00:55:26	saratoga	the proximity of the buttons seems like a general annoyance to me
00:55:32	kugel	my fingers aren't to large, I'd need two to turn it off
00:56:12	mcuelenaere	PSPdemon: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/OndaVX747 has a known issues list
00:57:05	mcuelenaere	PSPdemon: keep in mind internal flash won't be working for a long time, if at all
00:57:24	PSPdemon	so it loads rockbox via sd?
00:57:24	kugel	mcuelenaere: I mean those areas could act as if the scrollbar was used
00:57:45	mcuelenaere	kugel: ah, well they sort of do already
00:57:55	kugel	the dead area is quite large depending on the scrollbar width.
00:57:57	PSPdemon	or is this loaded via usb onto ram?
00:57:59		Quit robin0800 (Remote closed the connection)
00:58:13	mcuelenaere	you can scroll by holding your finger/stylus/whatever in the list up or down
00:58:17	mcuelenaere	but the scrollbar is faster
00:58:25	mcuelenaere	PSPdemon: yes, SD
00:58:28	mcuelenaere	miniSD*
00:58:55	saratoga	kugel: I mean ignore the menu press and power down whenever power is held, even if menu is also held
00:58:59	mcuelenaere	kugel: sure, but I don't think users are going to 'click' on list items at the far right
00:59:18	saratoga	so something like if(POWER\|\|(POWER&&MENU))
00:59:25	pixelma	hmm but domonoky1's commit says it only uses the info.txt, which wouldn't explain why it's wron on the server
00:59:31	mcuelenaere	(and I could've also used the icons width instead of the scrollbar width)
00:59:34	kugel	saratoga: not sure if that's easily doable
00:59:53	kugel	mcuelenaere: I was going to suggest that
00:59:53	saratoga	ok if i get time i'll look into it
01:00
01:00:13	PSPdemon	when you mean "as far as the hardware allows it to", what do you exactly mean?
01:03:20	PSPdemon	did i kill the chat? :P
01:13:41	mcuelenaere	PSPdemon: the audio codec isn't that great, it doesn't allow real volume control so software has to do that
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01:16:05	webguest55	hi i just installed rockbox but i don't know how to load apple's os firmwire can anyone help me please?
01:16:37	mcuelenaere	kugel: do icons have a fixed width?
01:17:28	kugel	mcuelenaere: no, but there's icon_get_width()
01:17:30	webguest55	please i realy need to know how to load my original os
01:17:31	pixelma	webguest55: I think the manual can ;)
01:17:40	webguest55	ok
01:17:44	webguest55	ill try again
01:17:46	kugel	(see draw_title() in the same file)
01:18:28	jtrenchard	webguest55: do you mean uninstall rockbox?
01:18:55	mcuelenaere	kugel: ok (I suppose you mean get_icon_width()?)
01:19:09	pixelma	I thought webguest55 means dual boot
01:19:23	jtrenchard	That's why I was asking
01:19:38	kugel	yes :)
01:19:51	webguest55	no i mean dual boot with rockbox
01:20:26	webguest55	i want to know how to load my original os at the same time
01:20:41	jtrenchard	webguest55: which ipod??
01:21:04	webguest55	what do i have to press when my ipod is booting up for my original os to load up?
01:21:18	webguest55	ipod photo 4g
01:21:23	mcuelenaere	kugel: what if no icons are displayed?
01:21:54	linuxstb	webguest55: Either hold menu, or turn on the hold switch.
01:22:04	pixelma	there is a headline in the manual called "starting the original firmware" (and the pdf is also searchable), just a hint ;)
01:22:06	mcuelenaere	oh nvm, it seems to take a default width then
01:22:19	webguest55	ok thank you :)
01:22:21	kugel	mcuelenaere: what does it do when the scrollbar is on the left in this case?
01:22:35	PSPdemon	mcuelenaere: now thats not fun... so all volume controls are handled by software -_-
01:22:44	PSPdemon	guessing that its not that great in sound quality?
01:22:51	mcuelenaere	PSPdemon: blame Ingenic..
01:23:02	mcuelenaere	or ChinaChip for not having a dedicated audio chip
01:23:30	mcuelenaere	kugel: haven't tried with a theme without icons yet
01:23:31	webguest55	thanks <pixelma> im new to ipod a rockbox so I didin't no that
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01:25:26	mcuelenaere	kugel: looks like it's handled as you'd expect (ie no 'invisible' dead zone)
01:25:54	jtrenchard	has anybody worked out why H10 5g's lcd isn't working yet?
01:26:22	saratoga	yes read above
01:27:47	jtrenchard	saratoga: right... is there anything I could do to get it to work then??
01:27:50	pixelma	jtrenchard: there is something wrong on the server so that the build on the server behind the 5/6GB link is actually a 20GB one
01:28:07	jtrenchard	oh, ok
01:30:21	jtrenchard	I hope it's fixed in 9 hours, my caffeine supply has run out, so i'm going now.
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01:32:05	saratoga	use this one: http://www.duke.edu/~mgg6/rockbox/H10.7z
01:32:48	evilnick1	mcuelenaere: Any news on checkwps?
01:32:58	mcuelenaere	evilnick1: news?
01:33:22	evilnick1	How far you got with it after getting it compiling, if you did
01:33:32	*	evilnick1 is taking dictation here!
01:33:49	mcuelenaere	evilnick1: it's compiling and working
01:34:23	CIA-61	New commit by 03gevaerts (r22468): compile for h10/5 when asked to compile for h10/5
01:35:14	evilnick1	mcuelenaere: Have you put any fixes in svn?
01:35:30	CIA-61	New commit by 03mcuelenaere (r22469): Touchscreen list handling: use icon width instead of scrollbar width for the 'ignoring' zone + correct comment that shouldn't be true anymore (and ...
01:35:50	mcuelenaere	evilnick1: yes, several
01:36:29	pixelma	gevaerts: nice. work. What happened there?
01:36:36	evilnick1	mcuelenaere: Sorry, these are all JdGordon's questions. He's had no chance to check what's happened today yet.
01:37:09	gevaerts	pixelma: I guess a copy/paste error somewhere in Sweden
01:37:15	gevaerts	or maybe in Gent
01:37:18	mcuelenaere	evilnick1: ah, well refer him to http://www.rockbox.org/since-4weeks.html
01:37:37	scorche\|sh	he cant see that either..
01:37:52	pixelma	gevaerts: hmm? Why was the daily build correct then?
01:38:08	gevaerts	pixelma: Bagder does the dailies with a different script
01:38:57	pixelma	ah, yes. Just wanted to ask something along those lines. Weird that it took so long to be noticed
01:39:26	pixelma	if you think it's fixed you could close the bug report
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01:40:55	gevaerts	ah, there's a bug report?
01:41:00	pixelma	http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/10557 (the description is wrong but this is what the user could see with the 20GB build on the 5GB)
01:41:11	jtrenchard	It works! Thanks everybody
01:41:42	*	gevaerts closes things
01:41:53	saratoga	has anyone got the stand alone codec tool to work?
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02:25:59	CIA-61	New commit by 03mcuelenaere (r22470): Remove unused defines
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02:34:10	JdGordon	rasher: re widecabbie... ok so yes it worked before, but that is the only theme that has had the problem sofar... so what needs to happen is the theme site needs to get info on how much is actually being used
02:34:30	JdGordon	then we can make some arguemtns for/against chaing the size and/or customisable buf size
02:40:10	saratoga	could someone help me understand how the makefile in FS #10243 actually works
02:40:28	saratoga	i don't understand the make rules used there
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03:20:15	domonoky1	JdGordon: FS #10549 mentions at least 11 broken Themes (many based on widecabbie) so increasing the buffer a little (so space for images is about the same as before) would be good.
03:22:13	JdGordon	I vicarisouly told kugel to increase it this morning....
03:22:29	Strife89	http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8806
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03:23:52	kugel	JdGordon: I think you're dreaming
03:24:35	PSPdemon	lol
03:24:43	kugel	widecabbie is easy to fix to fit in the current buffer, the same trick probably also works for other themes
03:26:43	PSPdemon	wow thats a hell of a tower or rockbox at devcon 2008
03:27:10	PSPdemon	even more rediculous at 2009
03:27:22	Strife89	PSPdemon: With pigs. :P
03:27:44	PSPdemon	lolol
03:28:33	Strife89	PSPdemon: http://picasaweb.google.com/neil.snat/DCW2009?feat=directlink#5372878534030137986
03:29:03	PSPdemon	lul
03:29:13	PSPdemon	i know where those pigs came from too
03:29:24	PSPdemon	i should buy a few for the hell of it ( since they are cheap as hell )
03:29:45	*	Strife89 admits it's tempting.
03:30:42	Strife89	PSPdemon: Head into #rockbox-community so we don't clog up this channel with more silliness. :)
03:30:47	PSPdemon	true
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03:48:04	Unhelpful	JdGordon: i had a thought, about being able to resize buffer_alloc. you had mentioned it being unsafe to force everything to re-allocate. i think a safe way to deal with it might be to have a callback registered for each allocation, that can be used to fix up any pointers into it when it is moved. for things that are resizing an existing buffer, a new call would be added that doesn't register a callback. the convenient way to handle the ca
03:48:04	Unhelpful	itself would just be to make it the first 4B of the buffer segment
03:48:25	Unhelpful	...and then WPS can alloc only as much buffer as it needs. :)
03:48:37	MG_Man	so let me get this straight
03:48:52	MG_Man	#rockbox-community is for more general questions like "What DAP should I get?" and such?
03:49:05	MG_Man	And #rockbox is about actual code/theme/etc or problems?
03:50:07	Unhelpful	MG_Man: #rockbox is for questions and discussions related to rockbox itself. support questions for rockbox, talk about features and how to implement, etc. #rockbox-community is for us to talk about other things so that we don't clutter up #rockbox with that.
03:50:36	MG_Man	Figured as much
03:50:48	MG_Man	Anyway I haven't been able to finalize my theme yet, been doing other busywork
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10:53:03	pixelma	does someone else also have trouble reaching the forums? It worked just some minutes ago...
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11:05:21	GodEater	forums look down to me too pixelma
11:06:52	pixelma	thanks, pity though
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11:16:04	linuxstb	pixelma, GodEater They're working fine for me now.
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11:18:30	pixelma	still nothing for me
11:18:51	linuxstb	Still fine for me...
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11:19:29	*	pixelma tries something
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11:23:58	pixelma	ok, looks like a routing problem. I can reach them from amiconn's server. So that's nothing scorche\|sh could do about
11:24:46	pixelma	the connection from here gets stuck at theplanet.com
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11:59:00	GodEater	still not working fo rme
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12:00:07	GodEater	oh yes, finally
12:03:30	pixelma	here too now (the direct way)
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12:28:48	webguest07	hi
12:29:42	webguest07	hi
12:29:45	webguest07	hi
12:29:46	DBUG	Enqueued KICK webguest07
12:29:46	webguest07	hi
12:29:48	webguest07	hi
12:29:51	***	Alert Mode level 1
12:29:51	webguest07	hi
12:29:59	webguest07	is any one here?/
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12:31:08	AlexP	Somebody was a little impatient
12:31:26	jtrenchard	Exactly what I thought
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14:53:41	Topy44	ok, i tried just about everything, i REALLY need to talk to someone that know something about the internals of the ATA access in rockbox
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15:48:34	pixelma	unpriviledged forum users can't view the "archived threads" right?
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15:50:20	pixelma	-d
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16:05:00	pixelma	Topy44: I found an old thread in the forum's "archived threads" describing the exact same problem - I think you don't have access to the thread and am sure you won't like the fact that there was no solution in the end, even with LinusN helping (I think that's about the best person who you could speak to about the H300 and ATA problems)
16:05:19	Topy44	aaargh
16:05:34	Topy44	whats the thread title?
16:06:29	pixelma	http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=18348.0
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16:07:13	pixelma	I sometimes get a blank page though when trying that link
16:07:15	Topy44	yeah that works
16:08:46	Topy44	hm
16:09:32	Topy44	i DO have smd soldering experience, but i cant see how it can be the ata buffer chip as i can access the hd in usb mass storage mode and also from rockbox after connecting it to usb first
16:09:36	Topy44	sec, let me upload the video
16:09:57	pixelma	that's what he described too
16:11:03	Topy44	my guess would be something the player doesnt like in the harddisks eeprom
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16:12:13	Topy44	hm!
16:12:23	Topy44	i have another hd that fits from my old mp3 player somewhere
16:12:25	Topy44	i can test with it
16:12:41	Topy44	if that works its the hd eeprom (or possibly bootsector), if not its something on the player
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16:28:32	Topy44	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlNXjhiIBOM
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17:06:16	CIA-61	New commit by 03kugel (r22471): Bound the progress slider into the currently used viewport (which should be the ui viewport at virtually any time).
17:17:17		Quit teru ("Quit")
17:22:53	CIA-61	New commit by 03kugel (r22472): Change the "Rename failed" message to a splash.
17:29:05	kugel	uhm, that's not my red, is it?
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17:38:55	pixelma	kugel: I wonder if it is related to Zagor's lang builing commit this week
17:39:37	JdGordon	yeah, that looks like a full rebuild wasnt done
17:39:41	kugel	possibly
17:40:06	kugel	but the clients are supposed to delete the build dir, and that has always been the workaround for this problem
17:40:25	JdGordon	ok, then it is your red and you need to fix it :LD
17:40:27	JdGordon	-L
17:41:09	kugel	I really though "oh this damn Player again", but it really doesn't look like my red
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17:45:44	BdN3504	what's up with the forums?
17:46:27	scorche\|sh	not much...just chillin...serving some pages...having a beer
17:47:16	kugel	forums work for me
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17:48:51	pixelma	there were some routing problems earlier, it was dependent on your provider if you saw those or not. Now I sometimes get/got blank pages from here (couldn't reach the forums before)
17:49:17	scorche\|sh	hrm
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17:49:38	pixelma	a refresh often helps
17:49:55	scorche\|sh	well, i upgraded the php version on the server friday upon a prodding for the themes site, so that could have had some effect..
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17:59:07	BdN3504	ok thanks, i also get blank pages. hope my provider will fix this.
17:59:39	saratoga_	I closed "S#10467 - [mp3 codec] Patch that reduces consumption of stack" because as far as I can tell it just makes CF really slow without any advantage
18:00
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18:17:16	saratoga_	do the YH players really not charge?
18:17:40	AlexP	Anyone got any ideas for what to call the "other" button on the gigabeat remote (not ff/rw, vol+/-, play, hold). Speaker? Mute? Something else?
18:18:13	JdGordon	how do i get the font height?
18:18:22	Ctcp	Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
18:18:22	*	JdGordon is trying to code while asleep and its not working
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18:19:14	saratoga_	the datahsheet says this: "If USB power is present and above 3.9V (and wall power is not available), system power is drawn from the USB pin. The battery charger is active, but charge current will be held off until the USB pin increases above 4.0V to prevent the battery charger from further loading down an already low USB supply."
18:19:45	saratoga_	it implies that battery charging is automatic, and looking at the diagram, I don't even see a way to turn it of in software, let alone to enable it
18:26:04	saratoga_	"Whenever USB or wall power is present (as sensed by the USB and WALLFB pins), Switcher 1 and the battery charger will always be enabled."
18:26:48		Quit LambdaCalculus37 ("Fwump")
18:28:46	CIA-61	New commit by 03alex (r22473): Correct a couple of manual button actions for the H100 remote.
18:29:59	saratoga_	kugel: i'm 99% sure we have charging on the YH920 at least, and probably all of them
18:30:30	jtrenchard	Anybody here knowledgeable with the speech on the iriver h10??
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18:32:58	pixelma	jtrenchard: what about it?
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18:33:33	jtrenchard	On my h10 when the voice is meant to speak, it sometimes says the wrong things
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18:34:07	pixelma	do you have an up-to-date voice file?
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18:34:35	jtrenchard	I clicked make voice file on my vista box yesterday
18:35:01	Topy44	could anyone point me towards the file/line that returns ATA error 11?
18:35:06	Topy44	i cant find it in ata.c
18:35:34	Domonoky	jtrenchard: try with a voicefile provided from the rockbox website
18:35:40	jtrenchard	ok
18:36:29	Domonoky	and make sure the voicefile and the rockbox install are both current.
18:36:48	jtrenchard	ok
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18:40:41	MausP	Hello all. Have a Volkswagen with IPod adapter of Volkswagen. Can I use it together with Rockbox?
18:41:38	saratoga_	try it and see
18:42:23	jtrenchard	Domonoky: oops... it was my fault
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18:43:22	rtjmay	Hi. I want to play some older radio shows that are only available as .ra files. Will the latest development build play them?
18:43:58	CIA-61	New commit by 03jdgordon (r22474): hopefully get the widecabbie theme going again... temporary fix only though
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18:45:10	saratoga_	rtjmay: depends what format is in those .ra files
18:46:21	rtjmay	saratoga_: how do I determine that?
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18:47:14	saratoga_	presumably whatever software you play them with can tell you what type of audio they are, or you could just try them in rockbox
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18:48:06	saratoga_	i think all but the oldest RA formats should work in rockbox now, although atrac won't play on all players yet
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18:51:19	rtjmay	thanks
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18:52:16	Domonoky	Topy44: you have to follow the code to find the place. main.c (~l 440) has the output. the number comes from storage_init() (in storage.c) which in turn calls ata_init() (in ata.c). follow the functions in this, to find the place where it fails.
18:52:32	Topy44	thanks
18:53:12	pixelma	JdGordon: did you reenable the complete buffer?
18:53:33	CIA-61	New commit by 03alex (r22475): Add remote button definitions for the gigabeat remote in preparation for ...
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18:55:13	JdGordon	pixelma: just about.. it shold be within 200 bytes of the origional "size"
18:55:44	JdGordon	actual value may vary
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18:57:12	pixelma	but widecabbie was wasting much space anyway...
18:59:22	kkurbjun	JdGordon: I have a preliminary implementation of the firmware encryption/decryption setup now for the M:robe - it's just a re-implementation of what Shirour figured out, but you should be able to make new firmware images that the OF can use as an update now (in case you want to start messing around with that :) )
19:00
19:00:03	JdGordon	ohh sweeet
19:03:09	JdGordon	kkurbjun: or, if you want to actually get it done faster i can send my jtaged mr500 to you?
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19:28:34	kkurbjun	JdGordon: yeah, I might be interested eventually, what really needs to be done in the near term is adding in all of the device initialization that we don't do right now. That takes looking through docs and the linux source to make sure that everything is being handled properly. we need to go through that first before we start to flash the device anyway, so i think it'll be a while yet before that is done.
19:30:12	jtrenchard	Is anybody here familiar with getting Festival to work in the rockbox utility for linux??
19:32:06	Domonoky	jtrenchard: just make sure the path to festival server and client in rbutil TTS configuration are correct, and it should work.
19:32:36	jtrenchard	The path is correct, and I have voices installed however it still says invalid config
19:37:09	Domonoky	it checks if server and client are both executable, and if a voice is set. if one of this is not correct it will say "invalid config".
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19:39:10	Domonoky	ofcourse there could also be a bug in this. But i cant try this myself at moment.
19:39:51		Quit JdGordon_ ("Page closed")
19:40:35	jtrenchard	Domonoky: You said "and if a voice is set", do you mean selected in the drop-down box??
19:40:42	Domonoky	yes
19:41:10	jtrenchard	They're not showing up, even if I click refresh.
19:43:22		Quit saratoga_ ("Page closed")
19:45:48	Domonoky	hm, looks like thats somehow broken :-/
19:45:56	Domonoky	i will look into this later.
19:47:03	jtrenchard	Ok, thanks, I'm in rbutil 1.2.1 and it's working fine...
20:00
20:01:29	CIA-61	New commit by 03alex (r22476): Add remote keymappings to the Gigabeat F/X and Gigabeat S manuals.
20:02:19	AlexP	I think the button mappings tables need a slight rework - something like small gaps between rows
20:02:32	AlexP	Some of them are pretty horrible to try and read at the moment
20:02:47	CIA-61	New commit by 03Domonoky (r22477): rbutil: fix festival tts handling.
20:02:59	*	pixelma is reminded of that suggestion....
20:03:12	Domonoky	jtrenchard: if found the bug. thank you for noticing and telling :-)
20:03:17	jtrenchard	r22477... ;D
20:03:26	AlexP	pixelma: Which was that? Has what I said been suggested before?
20:03:32	AlexP	IF so, I'll look into it
20:03:46	AlexP	The WPS keymapping table in particular is just nasty
20:04:14	pixelma	AlexP: we already talked about it - and posted a scheme to a pastebin
20:04:25	AlexP	Got a link?
20:04:39	AlexP	I wasn't here for that discussion
20:04:50	pixelma	sure
20:05:33	pixelma	and I talked to you about it, which is a while ago, I'm pretty sure of that. I need a minute, my laptop is a bit slow at the moment
20:05:41	AlexP	+
20:05:44	AlexP	ooops
20:05:54	AlexP	I don't remember, but it is very possible :)
20:06:02	AlexP	I didn't see a design though
20:06:09	AlexP	(that I remember) :)
20:06:31	*	pixelma is guilty of not putting it into the wiki as she wanted to
20:07:35	pixelma	or like
20:08:45	AlexP	pixelma: Ah, we are talking at corss purposes
20:09:00	AlexP	I mean in the manual produced (e.g. pdf), not the source files
20:09:03	pixelma	sorry?
20:09:11	AlexP	I remember the source file discussion
20:09:23	pixelma	ah hmm
20:09:36	AlexP	But I mean if you open a "end-user" manual, some of the button tables are next to impossible to read
20:10:25	AlexP	pixelma: Have a look at page 29 of the H100 manual
20:11:16	AlexP	That isn't easy to read IMO :)
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20:12:28	pixelma	yeah, I also think that the columns are a bit too narrow, button combos or long lists of buttons need two or more lines too early and then it's hard to spot which explanation belongs where
20:13:11	pixelma	maybe thin lines between them or alternating background colour (very light grey and white or so)
20:13:17	AlexP	Yeah, one of those
20:13:23	AlexP	(plus wider columns)
20:15:15	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:18:47	*	Domonoky wants to enable users to generate .talk files only for specific files. But is unsure how to present this. Should i give a option to ignore specifc files, or a option to only voice specific files. And should this option be with wild cards (ie *.wav) or complete regexps ?
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20:42:39	Domonoky	so many answers :-) i take the ignore option with wildcards.
20:43:05	Domonoky	anyone have a better idea for the UI of this? current: http://imagebin.org/60751
20:44:52	jtrenchard	I was thinking about the photo.... I you want I can take some similar ones but of my H10, as for the rest of the UI, I say leave it, I hate anything that has too much skinning.
20:46:23	jtrenchard	Although saying that I do like your ideas for only creating talk files for a specific extension
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20:47:19	jtrenchard	I also take the option with the wildcards.
20:48:13	Domonoky	jtrenchard: the general UI will stay, i just meant the new option to ignore files. maybe someone has a better idea to present this.
20:48:57	jtrenchard	Yes I realised that....
20:49:20	jtrenchard	after typing without reading properly!
20:49:41	Domonoky	ofcourse it would be nice to present photos of the currently selected target instead of this old archos photo. but thats not something i want to tackle now :-)
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20:52:08	*	Domonoky just tried it with ".txt,.7z" for the ignore option and it works :-) So if nobody objects i will commit it shortly.
20:55:46		Quit fm ("CGI:IRC 0.5.9 (2006/06/06)")
20:57:52	CIA-61	New commit by 03Domonoky (r22478): rbutil: add a option to ignore specific files for .talk file generation.
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21:05:56	pixelma	urgh, had to restart my Firefox and it struggled restoring the session because of the open rb.forums tabs
21:07:10	pixelma	sorry, wrong channel. The point though is that something is still not ok with the forums, I often get blank pages first and have to try loading them again
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21:48:17	jtrenchard	Domonoky: You fixed rbutil, right? Do I have to compile it?
21:49:05	Domonoky	jtrenchard: yes its fixed in svn. so if you want the fixed version you have to compile rbutil yourself.
21:49:43	jtrenchard	Ok, I might ask for some help in a minute then... if that's ok?
21:53:45	Domonoky	sure, feel free to ask.
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22:06:50	CIA-61	New commit by 03bluebrother (r22479): Extend beastpatcher command line. ...
22:10:11	AlexP	I'm still looking for any better suggestions about what to call the "other" button on the gigabeat remote (it is called "speaker" at the moment).... Any ideas?
22:13:04	jtrenchard	AlexP: Don't take this seriously, it's just a joke but have you thought about a "Rockbox" button, just like that button on my linux laptop that people call the "Windows" key.
22:13:27	AlexP	jtrenchard: There is no Rockbox logo on it
22:13:38	AlexP	There is however something that looks a bit like a speaker
22:13:47	jtrenchard	I know,, I said it was a joke
22:13:53	Domonoky	AlexP: what does this button do in rockbox ?
22:14:01	AlexP	This is for the manual - I need a name for things like "press play"
22:14:23	jtrenchard	Self destruct button?
22:14:26	AlexP	Domonoky: A few things, but if I described it by function I'd call it menu I think
22:14:40	AlexP	Domonoky: It is called "DSP" in the code (no idea why)
22:15:02	AlexP	Domonoky: I guess I could call it menu, and then rely on a picture in the manual to tell people which that is
22:15:20	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:15:20	Domonoky	:-) so why not call i menu (and label it acordingly in a image)
22:15:32	bluebrother	relabel the physical remote :)
22:15:53	AlexP	Domonoky: Mainly because there are no remote images in the manual as of yet, and the image on it doesn't suggest menu
22:16:00	bluebrother	"for using the remote with Rockbox you need to scrap of the label of that button and draw a different icon onto it" ;-)
22:16:02	AlexP	It looks something like a speaker :)
22:16:08	AlexP	bluebrother: nice :)
22:16:18	*	bluebrother wonders if it's a mute button in the OF
22:16:36	AlexP	might be, but it has a little + next to it too :)
22:16:44	Domonoky	we often dont respect the label on buttons, so i think its no harm to call it "menu"
22:16:44	AlexP	I've never used the OF, so couldn't say
22:17:12	AlexP	yeah, probably best
22:17:49	*	Domonoky opens beer .. :-)
22:18:41	*	AlexP has no beer :/
22:19:14	bluebrother	linuxstb: how can we proceed for relicensing mknkboot.c? Schould I just change the license header and commit it or would it be better (probably) if you did as you are the author?
22:20:08	CIA-61	New commit by 03alex (r22480): Call the oddly labelled button on the gigabeat remote "Menu" in the ...
22:20:22	AlexP	Domonoky: Your wish is my command :)
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22:21:35	bluebrother	AlexP: command or commit? ;-)
22:21:46	AlexP	hehe, both :)
22:21:55	Domonoky	:-)
22:22:32		Quit MausP (Client Quit)
22:23:54	CIA-61	New commit by 03alex (r22481): Add gigabeat remote keymaps for pictureflow to the manual.
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22:29:19	MausP	tried my iPod in my Volkswagen with the Volkswagen iPod adapter: and it works. ROCKBOX rocks :-)
22:29:34	AlexP	Glad to hear :)
22:29:53	AlexP	There is an IpodAccessories wiki page, perhaps you could add your findings to it
22:30:01	AlexP	That way others in the future will know too
22:30:29	AlexP	bluebrother: Got time for a latex question whilst you are here?
22:30:58	bluebrother	sure.
22:31:02	AlexP	Cool :)
22:32:08	AlexP	Some of the button tables in the manual are very ugly and hard to read (see page 29 of the H120 manual) for an example. What do you think to adding either fient alternating colours to the rows, or a feint line inbetween rows, or just a space in between rows to better seperate them?
22:32:19	AlexP	And then the harder question: any idea how? :)
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22:36:26	jtrenchard	Domonoky: Would you be able to give me a quick run through on how to compile rbutil?
22:38:12	Domonoky	jtrenchard: sure. you need qt4-dev and libusb-dev installed on linux. then navigate to rbutil/rbutilqt/ and run "qmake" (or qmake-qt4 depending on distro) and then make.
22:38:23	jtrenchard	Ok, thanks
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22:38:37	*	bluebrother wonders why exactly this is written down in the wiki :o
22:38:56	bluebrother	AlexP: you meand colors in rows or columns?
22:39:04	jtrenchard	Is it written in the wiki?
22:39:16	bluebrother	yep, check RockboxUtilityDevelopment
22:39:36	AlexP	bluebrother: rows mainly - I think the column seperation is not too bad, but with the rows it can get very hard to see what buttons belong to what description
22:39:53	jtrenchard	My web searching skill are getting worse by the hour :)
22:40:37	bluebrother	AlexP: well, colored rows would be nice (and are definitely possible), though AFAIK they aren't possible automatically :/
22:40:58		Quit dmb (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
22:41:32	AlexP	bluebrother: So you'ld have to add \colorx or \colory (or whatever the command is) to each line of each table?
22:42:01	MausP	It's a little long-winded for me to fill out registration from, ask for wiki write permission, etc just for this one entry.
22:42:02	MausP	maybe somebody else can do the entry
22:42:20	AlexP	bluebrother: Or a thin line between rows maybe (if that is easier?
22:42:34	bluebrother	and specifying the background color on each row is lots of work, but worse is that it's going to break with \opts in the tables.
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22:43:42	bluebrother	MausP: does this mean you expect someone doing the work for you?
22:43:59	bluebrother	AlexP: you would need to add the line yourself too :(
22:44:17	AlexP	bum
22:44:44	bluebrother	maybe there's something tabularx can do for us, but I've got to check the details (and understand them ... let's see if I manage that)
22:44:51	AlexP	That might break less on opts though, if you could just have e.g. \hline after the description
22:45:00	AlexP	bluebrother: Good luck :)
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22:46:30	bluebrother	yeah, but it will make tables look ugly that don't really need it.
22:46:59	AlexP	true
22:47:12	bluebrother	typesetting is really something hard.
22:47:39	AlexP	I feared as much, but some of the table are just urgh at the moment :)
22:48:10	AlexP	bluebrother: What about having spacing between rows? (I suspect this is also hard...)
22:48:38	bluebrother	indeed. Though with the current complexity for the manual I'm wondering if there are better formats than LaTeX (that can get converted to LaTeX and HTML)
22:48:51	AlexP	Word? :P
22:49:06	*	AlexP hides
22:49:19	bluebrother	spacing should be rather easy. It might loook equally bad though.
22:49:24	jtrenchard	... OpenDocument?
22:49:38	bluebrother	that's similarly bad.
22:49:42	AlexP	The trouble is all the opting on various features
22:49:54	bluebrother	unreadable xml packed in a zip file. How can one diff that?
22:50:28	jtrenchard	A sprinkle of fairy dust??? Ok then I suppose not.
22:50:35	bluebrother	AlexP: opt is one annoying thing, but we might be able to replace that with gcc. We need gcc anyway for building the manual, so it's not a real drawback.
22:50:38	MausP	bluebrother: I don't expect that others do the work for me. Just asking. But for me it is no problem, if there is no entry in the IpodAccessories wiki page
22:51:07	AlexP	jtrenchard: Also, how do you include/exclude/change things like buttons/screenshots for each different target?
22:51:40	bluebrother	MausP: how do you expect someone who doesn't know you (a) to know your wiki name and (b) how to handle your password? Or are you talking about putting the data in the wiki page instead of signing up?
22:51:51	jtrenchard	Ok, opendocument isn't the best for this application.
22:52:14	AlexP	jtrenchard: Have a look at the manual source, it is slightly complicated :)
22:52:29	bluebrother	jtrenchard: the manual has been an OOo document in the past (some years ago). Moving to LaTeX was the best thing we could have done that time.
22:52:58	bluebrother	the problem is that devs tend to port to more and more targets, making the manual more and more complex.
22:53:03	AlexP	yep
22:53:06	bluebrother	someone stop this porting!
22:53:12	AlexP	We should ban it!
22:53:14	jtrenchard	Yes i can see the point now.
22:53:25	AlexP	Only20 supported targets allowed at any one time :)
22:53:47	Domonoky	so with new targets, we should just drop the old ones :-)
22:53:53	bluebrother	drop those stupid AMS targets! We already have Sandisk players, no need for more!
22:54:12	bluebrother	which has also the advantage that there is less work to do :P
22:54:46		Quit mitk ("Leaving")
22:54:56	Domonoky	maybe we should limit it to only one target per manufacturer hehe
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23:00
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23:16:11	Unhelpful	...we could get rid of the manual. rockbox is so intuitive, anyway, and none of the controls or options are ever confusing or inconsistent, especially in the plugins.
23:18:54	AlexP	Unhelpful: A good point
23:19:31	*	AlexP is not being overly successful at his reading latex documentation to make it do coloured rows
23:19:41	froggyman	what if we made rockbox more cult-like, and required that every new user goes through an ordeal and that they most know one current member?
23:19:42	AlexP	(automatically)
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23:21:08	Unhelpful	would the ordeal work something like this? http://pbfcomics.com/?cid=PBF071-Weeaboo.gif
23:23:55	froggyman	no, we would need a different key word...
23:24:12	froggyman	maybe C++ or malloc
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23:28:28	CIA-61	New commit by 03zagor (r22482): Fixed "gcc: no input files" message.
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23:30:26	Unhelpful	hey, i'm practically proposing malloc lately. aside from the parts where it's pointer-based, or relies on VM. :P
23:30:29	kugel	saratoga: we have charging on the yh925
23:30:39	kugel	did I happen to forget to update the wiki?
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23:46:58	AlexP	bluebrother: Got it :)
23:47:06	AlexP	automatic colouring of rows :)
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23:50:42	AlexP	bluebrother: http://aeparker.com/files/rb-test.pdf
23:54:53		Quit Omlet ()
23:58:25	Zagor	gevaerts: could the bootloaders somehow be miscalibrated? everyone does them really slowly.

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