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#rockbox log for 2009-08-23

00:01:46 Join Kumool [0] (n=Khwerz@adsl-72-50-64-150.prtc.net)
00:05:19 Part Grahack
00:14:43 Join jtrenchard [0] (n=jamielxs@88-110-46-44.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)
00:14:56***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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00:17:54 Join gevaerts [0] (n=fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts)
00:18:38jtrenchardHello, any developers who could help me with my iriver H10, latest build lcd isn't working properly.
00:20:38 Join saratoga [0] (i=9803c6dd@gateway/web/freenode/x-utcowiiodtyihczn)
00:21:07pixelmawhat happens and when?
00:21:53jtrenchardBasically when I turn on my player the screen seems all out of sync.
00:22:26jtrenchardI wrote a bug report (FS #10557) for it if anybody is interested.
00:26:20pixelmahmm, I have no idea and don't have an H10, guess you have to stick around with this to get an answer
00:26:23 Quit ender` (" The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is like an eggs-and-ham breakfast: the chicken was 'involved' - the p")
00:26:42jtrenchardok, thanks anyway
00:33:22 Quit intrados_ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
00:33:24 Quit hillshum (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:34:26kugeljtrenchard: r22462 works?
00:34:43kugelI doubt changes to rbutil break a lcd.
00:35:16jtrenchardyes, it does work, r22464 and r22466 don't work though.
00:35:41 Join stripwax [0] (n=Miranda@87-194-34-169.bethere.co.uk)
00:37:49pixelmaumm... except he gets really the wrong build installed (for the big H10)?
00:38:24 Part eulerphi
00:39:00pixelmajtrenchard: can you look into rockbox-info.txt of a build that doesn't work (from your computer), it is in the .rockbox folder
00:39:19jtrenchardok, let me just reload rockbox to a broken build
00:39:41pixelmayou could already take that text file from the sim
00:39:46pixelmaerr... zip
00:40:11jtrenchardoh, ok
00:40:28pixelmaalthough I don't know if that zip is stored somewhere by the Utility
00:40:49pixelmaor if - then where
00:41:01jtrenchardok, i'm in the .txt, what should I be looking for
00:41:30saratogajust pastebin the whole thing
00:41:34jtrenchardok
00:42:50jtrenchardhttp://pastebin.ca/1539557
00:42:53pixelmathe Target: line at the top is what I think could be interesting
00:43:10 Join intrados_ [0] (n=intrados@cpe-71-67-138-190.woh.res.rr.com)
00:43:18jtrenchard"Target: h10" is that right then?
00:45:40saratogaDIRIVER_H10 is for the 20GB or larger HD based one
00:45:45pixelmahmm... I can't see a difference between small and big H10 builds there at the moment
00:46:06saratogasee tools/configure line 1182
00:46:45saratogais that the H10 you have?
00:47:18pixelmaI compare to a rockbox-info.txt from an 5/6GB H10 I downloaded from the current build page
00:47:50pixelmasaratoga: he said he had a small on
00:47:53pixelmae
00:47:53robin0800jtrenchard: there is a 5GB and a 20Gb which do you have?
00:48:06jtrenchardI have a 5gb
00:48:07CIA-61New commit by 03mcuelenaere (r22467): Touchscreen list handling: ignore presses close to the scrollbar when it's on the right, this is similar as how it's handled when the scrollbar is on ...
00:50:25PSPdemonmcuelenaere: so the 777+ should have the same compat as the 777 right?
00:50:43saratogawell that svn commit slowed my building to a crawl, but looking at the makefiles, I'm pretty sure the defines in that pastebin are for the large H10
00:50:50mcuelenaerePSPdemon: yes, AFAICS the VX777+ seems to be completely the same as the VX777
00:51:04mcuelenaere(which isn't true for all Onda devices, like the VX787 has a Rockchip)
00:51:19PSPdemonyea and the 777LE is cc1600 based
00:51:22mcuelenaeretrue
00:51:40pixelmarockbox-info.txt has Target: h10_5 in yesterday's daily build, the current build only has h10 - even for the 5/6GB zip, and the file is noticably larger (over 1MB)
00:51:46PSPdemonim guessing thats the one you got it confused for
00:52:20saratogapixelma: just compiled it and todays build is definately wrong
00:52:25pixelmaI could imagine that domonoky1's commit screwed something up in a way that a big H10 build gets packaged for the small one too
00:52:33PSPdemonmy old sansa broke so im looking into possibly getting one of those onda's as a replacement
00:52:45kugelmcuelenaere: Hm, why not let it scroll instead of having dead zones?
00:53:03mcuelenaerePSPdemon: well they're still unsupported, but Rockbox works pretty well on them
00:53:07saratogarockbox.org has Target: h10 while my build gets Target: h10_5gb
00:53:10PSPdemonhow about audio?
00:53:43saratogakugel: i wondered about the Sansa e200 keymap if it could be changed to shutdown if I hold power and menu at the same time?
00:53:53PSPdemonso far by the way it seems most everything works on it
00:53:54saratogaevidently my fingers are too large since i often hold both and the player does nothing
00:54:07pixelmasaratoga: that's what was in yesterday's daily too (which is actually r22462-090822)
00:54:11saratogaor is power + menu already mapped to something?
00:54:11mcuelenaerekugel: the dead zones are all the corners, for example when I'm scrolling using the scrollbar it could make the 'pointer' jump a bit to the left (into the list itself). By ignoring that part I don't accidentaly press anything
00:54:29mcuelenaerePSPdemon: audio works, as far as the hardware allows it to
00:54:51mcuelenaeres/all the corners/all the borders/
00:54:59kugelsaratoga: should be possible, but I wouldn't want that in SVN
00:55:14saratogawhats your reasoning?
00:55:15mcuelenaerethey're not literally 'dead', but they don't linearly scale back to LCD coordinates
00:55:26saratogathe proximity of the buttons seems like a general annoyance to me
00:55:32kugelmy fingers aren't to large, I'd need two to turn it off
00:56:12mcuelenaerePSPdemon: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/OndaVX747 has a known issues list
00:57:05mcuelenaerePSPdemon: keep in mind internal flash won't be working for a long time, if at all
00:57:24PSPdemonso it loads rockbox via sd?
00:57:24kugelmcuelenaere: I mean those areas could act as if the scrollbar was used
00:57:45mcuelenaerekugel: ah, well they sort of do already
00:57:55kugelthe dead area is quite large depending on the scrollbar width.
00:57:57PSPdemonor is this loaded via usb onto ram?
00:57:59 Quit robin0800 (Remote closed the connection)
00:58:13mcuelenaereyou can scroll by holding your finger/stylus/whatever in the list up or down
00:58:17mcuelenaerebut the scrollbar is faster
00:58:25mcuelenaerePSPdemon: yes, SD
00:58:28mcuelenaereminiSD*
00:58:55saratogakugel: I mean ignore the menu press and power down whenever power is held, even if menu is also held
00:58:59mcuelenaerekugel: sure, but I don't think users are going to 'click' on list items at the far right
00:59:18saratogaso something like if(POWER||(POWER&&MENU))
00:59:25pixelmahmm but domonoky1's commit says it only uses the info.txt, which wouldn't explain why it's wron on the server
00:59:31mcuelenaere(and I could've also used the icons width instead of the scrollbar width)
00:59:34kugelsaratoga: not sure if that's easily doable
00:59:53kugelmcuelenaere: I was going to suggest that
00:59:53saratogaok if i get time i'll look into it
01:00
01:00:13PSPdemonwhen you mean "as far as the hardware allows it to", what do you exactly mean?
01:03:20PSPdemondid i kill the chat? :P
01:13:41mcuelenaerePSPdemon: the audio codec isn't *that* great, it doesn't allow real volume control so software has to do that
01:15:03 Join webguest55 [0] (n=4e850b31@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-nnhwqgkeyojhttcm)
01:16:05webguest55hi i just installed rockbox but i don't know how to load apple's os firmwire can anyone help me please?
01:16:37mcuelenaerekugel: do icons have a fixed width?
01:17:28kugelmcuelenaere: no, but there's icon_get_width()
01:17:30webguest55please i realy need to know how to load my original os
01:17:31pixelmawebguest55: I think the manual can ;)
01:17:40webguest55ok
01:17:44webguest55ill try again
01:17:46kugel(see draw_title() in the same file)
01:18:28jtrenchardwebguest55: do you mean uninstall rockbox?
01:18:55mcuelenaerekugel: ok (I suppose you mean get_icon_width()?)
01:19:09pixelmaI thought webguest55 means dual boot
01:19:23jtrenchardThat's why I was asking
01:19:38kugelyes :)
01:19:51webguest55no i mean dual boot with rockbox
01:20:26webguest55i want to know how to load my original os at the same time
01:20:41jtrenchardwebguest55: which ipod??
01:21:04webguest55what do i have to press when my ipod is booting up for my original os to load up?
01:21:18webguest55ipod photo 4g
01:21:23mcuelenaerekugel: what if no icons are displayed?
01:21:54linuxstbwebguest55: Either hold menu, or turn on the hold switch.
01:22:04pixelmathere is a headline in the manual called "starting the original firmware" (and the pdf is also searchable), just a hint ;)
01:22:06mcuelenaereoh nvm, it seems to take a default width then
01:22:19webguest55ok thank you :)
01:22:21kugelmcuelenaere: what does it do when the scrollbar is on the left in this case?
01:22:35PSPdemonmcuelenaere: now thats not fun... so all volume controls are handled by software -_-
01:22:44PSPdemonguessing that its not that great in sound quality?
01:22:51mcuelenaerePSPdemon: blame Ingenic..
01:23:02mcuelenaereor ChinaChip for not having a dedicated audio chip
01:23:30mcuelenaerekugel: haven't tried with a theme without icons yet
01:23:31webguest55thanks <pixelma> im new to ipod a rockbox so I didin't no that
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01:25:26mcuelenaerekugel: looks like it's handled as you'd expect (ie no 'invisible' dead zone)
01:25:54jtrenchardhas anybody worked out why H10 5g's lcd isn't working yet?
01:26:22saratogayes read above
01:27:47jtrenchardsaratoga: right... is there anything I could do to get it to work then??
01:27:50pixelmajtrenchard: there is something wrong on the server so that the build on the server behind the 5/6GB link is actually a 20GB one
01:28:07jtrenchardoh, ok
01:30:21jtrenchardI hope it's fixed in 9 hours, my caffeine supply has run out, so i'm going now.
01:30:37 Part jtrenchard ("Leaving")
01:32:05saratogause this one: http://www.duke.edu/~mgg6/rockbox/H10.7z
01:32:48evilnick1mcuelenaere: Any news on checkwps?
01:32:58mcuelenaereevilnick1: news?
01:33:22evilnick1How far you got with it after getting it compiling, if you did
01:33:32*evilnick1 is taking dictation here!
01:33:49mcuelenaereevilnick1: it's compiling and working
01:34:23CIA-61New commit by 03gevaerts (r22468): compile for h10/5 when asked to compile for h10/5
01:35:14evilnick1mcuelenaere: Have you put any fixes in svn?
01:35:30CIA-61New commit by 03mcuelenaere (r22469): Touchscreen list handling: use icon width instead of scrollbar width for the 'ignoring' zone + correct comment that shouldn't be true anymore (and ...
01:35:50mcuelenaereevilnick1: yes, several
01:36:29pixelmagevaerts: nice. work. What happened there?
01:36:36evilnick1mcuelenaere: Sorry, these are all JdGordon's questions. He's had no chance to check what's happened today yet.
01:37:09gevaertspixelma: I guess a copy/paste error somewhere in Sweden
01:37:15gevaertsor maybe in Gent
01:37:18mcuelenaereevilnick1: ah, well refer him to http://www.rockbox.org/since-4weeks.html
01:37:37scorche|shhe cant see that either..
01:37:52pixelmagevaerts: hmm? Why was the daily build correct then?
01:38:08gevaertspixelma: Bagder does the dailies with a different script
01:38:57pixelmaah, yes. Just wanted to ask something along those lines. Weird that it took so long to be noticed
01:39:26pixelmaif you think it's fixed you could close the bug report
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01:40:55gevaertsah, there's a bug report?
01:41:00pixelmahttp://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/10557 (the description is wrong but this is what the user could see with the 20GB build on the 5GB)
01:41:11jtrenchardIt works! Thanks everybody
01:41:42*gevaerts closes things
01:41:53saratogahas anyone got the stand alone codec tool to work?
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02:00
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02:25:59CIA-61New commit by 03mcuelenaere (r22470): Remove unused defines
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02:34:10JdGordonrasher: re widecabbie... ok so yes it worked before, but that is the *only* theme that has had the problem sofar... so what needs to happen is the theme site needs to get info on how much is actually being used
02:34:30JdGordonthen we can make some arguemtns for/against chaing the size and/or customisable buf size
02:40:10saratogacould someone help me understand how the makefile in FS #10243 actually works
02:40:28saratogai don't understand the make rules used there
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03:20:15domonoky1JdGordon: FS #10549 mentions at least 11 broken Themes (many based on widecabbie) so increasing the buffer a little (so space for images is about the same as before) would be good.
03:22:13JdGordonI vicarisouly told kugel to increase it this morning....
03:22:29Strife89http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8806
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03:23:52kugelJdGordon: I think you're dreaming
03:24:35PSPdemonlol
03:24:43kugelwidecabbie is easy to fix to fit in the current buffer, the same trick probably also works for other themes
03:26:43PSPdemonwow thats a hell of a tower or rockbox at devcon 2008
03:27:10PSPdemoneven more rediculous at 2009
03:27:22Strife89PSPdemon: With pigs. :P
03:27:44PSPdemonlolol
03:28:33Strife89PSPdemon: http://picasaweb.google.com/neil.snat/DCW2009?feat=directlink#5372878534030137986
03:29:03PSPdemonlul
03:29:13PSPdemoni know where those pigs came from too
03:29:24PSPdemoni should buy a few for the hell of it ( since they are cheap as hell )
03:29:45*Strife89 admits it's tempting.
03:30:42Strife89PSPdemon: Head into #rockbox-community so we don't clog up this channel with more silliness. :)
03:30:47PSPdemontrue
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03:48:04UnhelpfulJdGordon: i had a thought, about being able to resize buffer_alloc. you had mentioned it being unsafe to force everything to re-allocate. i think a safe way to deal with it might be to have a callback registered for each allocation, that can be used to fix up any pointers into it when it is moved. for things that are resizing an existing buffer, a new call would be added that doesn't register a callback. the convenient way to handle the ca
03:48:04Unhelpful itself would just be to make it the first 4B of the buffer segment
03:48:25Unhelpful...and then WPS can alloc only as much buffer as it needs. :)
03:48:37MG_Manso let me get this straight
03:48:52MG_Man#rockbox-community is for more general questions like "What DAP should I get?" and such?
03:49:05MG_ManAnd #rockbox is about actual code/theme/etc or problems?
03:50:07UnhelpfulMG_Man: #rockbox is for questions and discussions related to rockbox itself. support questions for rockbox, talk about features and how to implement, etc. #rockbox-community is for us to talk about other things so that we don't clutter up #rockbox with that.
03:50:36MG_ManFigured as much
03:50:48MG_ManAnyway I haven't been able to finalize my theme yet, been doing other busywork
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06:13:42MG_ManBeen quite quiet
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10:53:03pixelmadoes someone else also have trouble reaching the forums? It worked just some minutes ago...
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11:05:21GodEaterforums look down to me too pixelma
11:06:52pixelmathanks, pity though
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11:16:04linuxstbpixelma, GodEater They're working fine for me now.
11:16:37 Nick YpsyZNC is now known as Ypsy (n=ypsy@geekpadawan.de)
11:18:30pixelmastill nothing for me
11:18:51linuxstbStill fine for me...
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11:19:29*pixelma tries something
11:19:55 Quit AndyI ()
11:23:58pixelmaok, looks like a routing problem. I can reach them from amiconn's server. So that's nothing scorche|sh could do about
11:24:46pixelmathe connection from here gets stuck at theplanet.com
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11:59:00GodEaterstill not working fo rme
12:00
12:00:07GodEateroh yes, finally
12:03:30pixelmahere too now (the direct way)
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12:29:59webguest07is any one here?/
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12:31:08AlexPSomebody was a little impatient
12:31:26jtrenchardExactly what I thought
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14:53:41Topy44ok, i tried just about everything, i REALLY need to talk to someone that know something about the internals of the ATA access in rockbox
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15:48:34pixelmaunpriviledged forum users can't view the "archived threads" right?
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16:05:00pixelmaTopy44: I found an old thread in the forum's "archived threads" describing the exact same problem - I *think* you don't have access to the thread and am sure you won't like the fact that there was no solution in the end, even with LinusN helping (I think that's about the best person who you could speak to about the H300 and ATA problems)
16:05:19Topy44aaargh
16:05:34Topy44whats the thread title?
16:06:29pixelmahttp://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=18348.0
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16:07:13pixelmaI sometimes get a blank page though when trying that link
16:07:15Topy44yeah that works
16:08:46Topy44hm
16:09:32Topy44i DO have smd soldering experience, but i cant see how it can be the ata buffer chip as i can access the hd in usb mass storage mode and also from rockbox after connecting it to usb first
16:09:36Topy44sec, let me upload the video
16:09:57pixelmathat's what he described too
16:11:03Topy44my guess would be something the player doesnt like in the harddisks eeprom
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16:12:13Topy44hm!
16:12:23Topy44i have another hd that fits from my old mp3 player somewhere
16:12:25Topy44i can test with it
16:12:41Topy44if that works its the hd eeprom (or possibly bootsector), if not its something on the player
16:15:12***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:28:32Topy44http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlNXjhiIBOM
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17:06:16CIA-61New commit by 03kugel (r22471): Bound the progress slider into the currently used viewport (which should be the ui viewport at virtually any time).
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17:22:53CIA-61New commit by 03kugel (r22472): Change the "Rename failed" message to a splash.
17:29:05kugeluhm, that's not my red, is it?
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17:38:55pixelmakugel: I wonder if it is related to Zagor's lang builing commit this week
17:39:37JdGordonyeah, that looks like a full rebuild wasnt done
17:39:41kugelpossibly
17:40:06kugelbut the clients are supposed to delete the build dir, and that has always been the workaround for this problem
17:40:25JdGordonok, then it *is* your red and you need to fix it :LD
17:40:27JdGordon-L
17:41:09kugelI really though "oh this damn Player again", but it really doesn't look like my red
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17:45:44BdN3504what's up with the forums?
17:46:27scorche|shnot much...just chillin...serving some pages...having a beer
17:47:16kugelforums work for me
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17:48:51pixelmathere were some routing problems earlier, it was dependent on your provider if you saw those or not. Now I sometimes get/got blank pages from here (couldn't reach the forums before)
17:49:17scorche|shhrm
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17:49:38pixelmaa refresh often helps
17:49:55scorche|shwell, i upgraded the php version on the server friday upon a prodding for the themes site, so that could have had some effect..
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17:59:07BdN3504ok thanks, i also get blank pages. hope my provider will fix this.
17:59:39saratoga_I closed "S#10467 - [mp3 codec] Patch that reduces consumption of stack" because as far as I can tell it just makes CF really slow without any advantage
18:00
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18:17:16saratoga_do the YH players really not charge?
18:17:40AlexPAnyone got any ideas for what to call the "other" button on the gigabeat remote (not ff/rw, vol+/-, play, hold). Speaker? Mute? Something else?
18:18:13JdGordonhow do i get the font height?
18:18:22CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
18:18:22*JdGordon is trying to code while asleep and its not working
18:18:42*gevaerts sends JdGordon a floor up
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18:19:14saratoga_the datahsheet says this: "If USB power is present and above 3.9V (and wall power is not available), system power is drawn from the USB pin. The battery charger is active, but charge current will be held off until the USB pin increases above 4.0V to prevent the battery charger from further loading down an already low USB supply."
18:19:45saratoga_it implies that battery charging is automatic, and looking at the diagram, I don't even see a way to turn it of in software, let alone to enable it
18:26:04saratoga_"Whenever USB or wall power is present (as sensed by the USB and WALLFB pins), Switcher 1 and the battery charger will always be enabled."
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18:28:46CIA-61New commit by 03alex (r22473): Correct a couple of manual button actions for the H100 remote.
18:29:59saratoga_kugel: i'm 99% sure we have charging on the YH920 at least, and probably all of them
18:30:30jtrenchardAnybody here knowledgeable with the speech on the iriver h10??
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18:32:58pixelmajtrenchard: what about it?
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18:33:33jtrenchardOn my h10 when the voice is meant to speak, it sometimes says the wrong things
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18:34:07pixelmado you have an up-to-date voice file?
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18:34:35jtrenchardI clicked make voice file on my vista box yesterday
18:35:01Topy44could anyone point me towards the file/line that returns ATA error 11?
18:35:06Topy44i cant find it in ata.c
18:35:34Domonokyjtrenchard: try with a voicefile provided from the rockbox website
18:35:40jtrenchardok
18:36:29Domonokyand make sure the voicefile and the rockbox install are both current.
18:36:48jtrenchardok
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18:40:41MausPHello all. Have a Volkswagen with IPod adapter of Volkswagen. Can I use it together with Rockbox?
18:41:38saratoga_try it and see
18:42:23jtrenchardDomonoky: oops... it was my fault
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18:43:22rtjmayHi. I want to play some older radio shows that are only available as .ra files. Will the latest development build play them?
18:43:58CIA-61New commit by 03jdgordon (r22474): hopefully get the widecabbie theme going again... temporary fix only though
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18:45:10saratoga_rtjmay: depends what format is in those .ra files
18:46:21rtjmaysaratoga_: how do I determine that?
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18:47:14saratoga_presumably whatever software you play them with can tell you what type of audio they are, or you could just try them in rockbox
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18:48:06saratoga_i think all but the oldest RA formats should work in rockbox now, although atrac won't play on all players yet
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18:51:19rtjmaythanks
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18:52:16DomonokyTopy44: you have to follow the code to find the place. main.c (~l 440) has the output. the number comes from storage_init() (in storage.c) which in turn calls ata_init() (in ata.c). follow the functions in this, to find the place where it fails.
18:52:32Topy44thanks
18:53:12pixelmaJdGordon: did you reenable the complete buffer?
18:53:33CIA-61New commit by 03alex (r22475): Add remote button definitions for the gigabeat remote in preparation for ...
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18:55:13JdGordonpixelma: just about.. it shold be within 200 bytes of the origional "size"
18:55:44JdGordon*actual value may vary*
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18:57:12pixelmabut widecabbie was wasting much space anyway...
18:59:22kkurbjunJdGordon: I have a preliminary implementation of the firmware encryption/decryption setup now for the M:robe - it's just a re-implementation of what Shirour figured out, but you should be able to make new firmware images that the OF can use as an update now (in case you want to start messing around with that :) )
19:00
19:00:03JdGordonohh sweeet
19:03:09JdGordonkkurbjun: or, if you want to actually get it done faster i can send my jtaged mr500 to you?
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19:28:34kkurbjunJdGordon: yeah, I might be interested eventually, what really needs to be done in the near term is adding in all of the device initialization that we don't do right now. That takes looking through docs and the linux source to make sure that everything is being handled properly. we need to go through that first before we start to flash the device anyway, so i think it'll be a while yet before that is done.
19:30:12jtrenchardIs anybody here familiar with getting Festival to work in the rockbox utility for linux??
19:32:06Domonokyjtrenchard: just make sure the path to festival server and client in rbutil TTS configuration are correct, and it should work.
19:32:36jtrenchardThe path is correct, and I have voices installed however it still says invalid config
19:37:09Domonokyit checks if server and client are both executable, and if a voice is set. if one of this is not correct it will say "invalid config".
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19:39:10Domonokyofcourse there could also be a bug in this. But i cant try this myself at moment.
19:39:51 Quit JdGordon_ ("Page closed")
19:40:35jtrenchardDomonoky: You said "and if a voice is set", do you mean selected in the drop-down box??
19:40:42Domonokyyes
19:41:10jtrenchardThey're not showing up, even if I click refresh.
19:43:22 Quit saratoga_ ("Page closed")
19:45:48Domonokyhm, looks like thats somehow broken :-/
19:45:56Domonokyi will look into this later.
19:47:03jtrenchardOk, thanks, I'm in rbutil 1.2.1 and it's working fine...
20:00
20:01:29CIA-61New commit by 03alex (r22476): Add remote keymappings to the Gigabeat F/X and Gigabeat S manuals.
20:02:19AlexPI think the button mappings tables need a slight rework - something like small gaps between rows
20:02:32AlexPSome of them are pretty horrible to try and read at the moment
20:02:47CIA-61New commit by 03Domonoky (r22477): rbutil: fix festival tts handling.
20:02:59*pixelma is reminded of that suggestion....
20:03:12Domonokyjtrenchard: if found the bug. thank you for noticing and telling :-)
20:03:17jtrenchardr22477... ;D
20:03:26AlexPpixelma: Which was that? Has what I said been suggested before?
20:03:32AlexPIF so, I'll look into it
20:03:46AlexPThe WPS keymapping table in particular is just nasty
20:04:14pixelmaAlexP: we already talked about it - and posted a scheme to a pastebin
20:04:25AlexPGot a link?
20:04:39AlexPI wasn't here for that discussion
20:04:50pixelmasure
20:05:33pixelmaand I talked to you about it, which is a while ago, I'm pretty sure of that. I need a minute, my laptop is a bit slow at the moment
20:05:41AlexP+
20:05:44AlexPooops
20:05:54AlexPI don't remember, but it is very possible :)
20:06:02AlexPI didn't see a design though
20:06:09AlexP(that I remember) :)
20:06:31*pixelma is guilty of not putting it into the wiki as she wanted to
20:07:35pixelmaor like
20:08:45AlexPpixelma: Ah, we are talking at corss purposes
20:09:00AlexPI mean in the manual produced (e.g. pdf), not the source files
20:09:03pixelmasorry?
20:09:11AlexPI remember the source file discussion
20:09:23pixelmaah hmm
20:09:36AlexPBut I mean if you open a "end-user" manual, some of the button tables are next to impossible to read
20:10:25AlexPpixelma: Have a look at page 29 of the H100 manual
20:11:16AlexPThat isn't easy to read IMO :)
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20:12:28pixelmayeah, I also think that the columns are a bit too narrow, button combos or long lists of buttons need two or more lines too early and then it's hard to spot which explanation belongs where
20:13:11pixelmamaybe thin lines between them or alternating background colour (very light grey and white or so)
20:13:17AlexPYeah, one of those
20:13:23AlexP(plus wider columns)
20:15:15***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:18:47*Domonoky wants to enable users to generate .talk files only for specific files. But is unsure how to present this. Should i give a option to ignore specifc files, or a option to only voice specific files. And should this option be with wild cards (ie *.wav) or complete regexps ?
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20:42:39Domonokyso many answers :-) i take the ignore option with wildcards.
20:43:05Domonokyanyone have a better idea for the UI of this? current: http://imagebin.org/60751
20:44:52jtrenchardI was thinking about the photo.... I you want I can take some similar ones but of my H10, as for the rest of the UI, I say leave it, I hate anything that has too much skinning.
20:46:23jtrenchardAlthough saying that I do like your ideas for only creating talk files for a specific extension
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20:47:19jtrenchardI also take the option with the wildcards.
20:48:13Domonokyjtrenchard: the general UI will stay, i just meant the new option to ignore files. maybe someone has a better idea to present this.
20:48:57jtrenchardYes I realised that....
20:49:20jtrenchardafter typing without reading properly!
20:49:41Domonokyofcourse it would be nice to present photos of the currently selected target instead of this old archos photo. but thats not something i want to tackle now :-)
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20:52:08*Domonoky just tried it with "*.txt,*.7z" for the ignore option and it works :-) So if nobody objects i will commit it shortly.
20:55:46 Quit fm ("CGI:IRC 0.5.9 (2006/06/06)")
20:57:52CIA-61New commit by 03Domonoky (r22478): rbutil: add a option to ignore specific files for .talk file generation.
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21:05:56pixelmaurgh, had to restart my Firefox and it struggled restoring the session because of the open rb.forums tabs
21:07:10pixelmasorry, wrong channel. The point though is that something is still not ok with the forums, I often get blank pages first and have to try loading them again
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21:48:17jtrenchardDomonoky: You fixed rbutil, right? Do I have to compile it?
21:49:05Domonokyjtrenchard: yes its fixed in svn. so if you want the fixed version you have to compile rbutil yourself.
21:49:43jtrenchardOk, I might ask for some help in a minute then... if that's ok?
21:53:45Domonokysure, feel free to ask.
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22:06:50CIA-61New commit by 03bluebrother (r22479): Extend beastpatcher command line. ...
22:10:11AlexPI'm still looking for any better suggestions about what to call the "other" button on the gigabeat remote (it is called "speaker" at the moment).... Any ideas?
22:13:04jtrenchardAlexP: Don't take this seriously, it's just a joke but have you thought about a "Rockbox" button, just like that button on my linux laptop that people call the "Windows" key.
22:13:27AlexPjtrenchard: There is no Rockbox logo on it
22:13:38AlexPThere is however something that looks a bit like a speaker
22:13:47jtrenchardI know,, I said it was a joke
22:13:53DomonokyAlexP: what does this button do in rockbox ?
22:14:01AlexPThis is for the manual - I need a name for things like "press play"
22:14:23jtrenchardSelf destruct button?
22:14:26AlexPDomonoky: A few things, but if I described it by function I'd call it menu I think
22:14:40AlexPDomonoky: It is called "DSP" in the code (no idea why)
22:15:02AlexPDomonoky: I guess I could call it menu, and then rely on a picture in the manual to tell people which that is
22:15:20***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:15:20Domonoky:-) so why not call i menu (and label it acordingly in a image)
22:15:32bluebrotherrelabel the physical remote :)
22:15:53AlexPDomonoky: Mainly because there are no remote images in the manual as of yet, and the image on it doesn't suggest menu
22:16:00bluebrother"for using the remote with Rockbox you need to scrap of the label of that button and draw a different icon onto it" ;-)
22:16:02AlexPIt looks something like a speaker :)
22:16:08AlexPbluebrother: nice :)
22:16:18*bluebrother wonders if it's a mute button in the OF
22:16:36AlexPmight be, but it has a little + next to it too :)
22:16:44Domonokywe often dont respect the label on buttons, so i think its no harm to call it "menu"
22:16:44AlexPI've never used the OF, so couldn't say
22:17:12AlexPyeah, probably best
22:17:49*Domonoky opens beer .. :-)
22:18:41*AlexP has no beer :/
22:19:14bluebrotherlinuxstb: how can we proceed for relicensing mknkboot.c? Schould I just change the license header and commit it or would it be better (probably) if you did as you are the author?
22:20:08CIA-61New commit by 03alex (r22480): Call the oddly labelled button on the gigabeat remote "Menu" in the ...
22:20:22AlexPDomonoky: Your wish is my command :)
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22:21:35bluebrotherAlexP: command or commit? ;-)
22:21:46AlexPhehe, both :)
22:21:55Domonoky:-)
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22:23:54CIA-61New commit by 03alex (r22481): Add gigabeat remote keymaps for pictureflow to the manual.
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22:29:19MausPtried my iPod in my Volkswagen with the Volkswagen iPod adapter: and it works. ROCKBOX rocks :-)
22:29:34AlexPGlad to hear :)
22:29:53AlexPThere is an IpodAccessories wiki page, perhaps you could add your findings to it
22:30:01AlexPThat way others in the future will know too
22:30:29AlexPbluebrother: Got time for a latex question whilst you are here?
22:30:58bluebrothersure.
22:31:02AlexPCool :)
22:32:08AlexPSome of the button tables in the manual are very ugly and hard to read (see page 29 of the H120 manual) for an example. What do you think to adding either fient alternating colours to the rows, or a feint line inbetween rows, or just a space in between rows to better seperate them?
22:32:19AlexPAnd then the harder question: any idea how? :)
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22:36:26jtrenchardDomonoky: Would you be able to give me a quick run through on how to compile rbutil?
22:38:12Domonokyjtrenchard: sure. you need qt4-dev and libusb-dev installed on linux. then navigate to rbutil/rbutilqt/ and run "qmake" (or qmake-qt4 depending on distro) and then make.
22:38:23jtrenchardOk, thanks
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22:38:37*bluebrother wonders why exactly this is written down in the wiki :o
22:38:56bluebrotherAlexP: you meand colors in rows or columns?
22:39:04jtrenchardIs it written in the wiki?
22:39:16bluebrotheryep, check RockboxUtilityDevelopment
22:39:36AlexPbluebrother: rows mainly - I think the column seperation is not too bad, but with the rows it can get very hard to see what buttons belong to what description
22:39:53jtrenchardMy web searching skill are getting worse by the hour :)
22:40:37bluebrotherAlexP: well, colored rows would be nice (and are definitely possible), though AFAIK they aren't possible automatically :/
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22:41:32AlexPbluebrother: So you'ld have to add \colorx or \colory (or whatever the command is) to each line of each table?
22:42:01MausPIt's a little long-winded for me to fill out registration from, ask for wiki write permission, etc just for this one entry.
22:42:02MausPmaybe somebody else can do the entry
22:42:20AlexPbluebrother: Or a thin line between rows maybe (if that is easier?
22:42:34bluebrotherand specifying the background color on each row is lots of work, but worse is that it's going to break with \opts in the tables.
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22:43:42bluebrotherMausP: does this mean you expect someone doing the work for you?
22:43:59bluebrotherAlexP: you would need to add the line yourself too :(
22:44:17AlexPbum
22:44:44bluebrothermaybe there's something tabularx can do for us, but I've got to check the details (and understand them ... let's see if I manage that)
22:44:51AlexPThat might break less on opts though, if you could just have e.g. \hline after the description
22:45:00AlexPbluebrother: Good luck :)
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22:46:30bluebrotheryeah, but it will make tables look ugly that don't really need it.
22:46:59AlexPtrue
22:47:12bluebrothertypesetting is really something hard.
22:47:39AlexPI feared as much, but some of the table are just urgh at the moment :)
22:48:10AlexPbluebrother: What about having spacing between rows? (I suspect this is also hard...)
22:48:38bluebrotherindeed. Though with the current complexity for the manual I'm wondering if there are better formats than LaTeX (that can get converted to LaTeX and HTML)
22:48:51AlexPWord? :P
22:49:06*AlexP hides
22:49:19bluebrotherspacing should be rather easy. It might loook equally bad though.
22:49:24jtrenchard... OpenDocument?
22:49:38bluebrotherthat's similarly bad.
22:49:42AlexPThe trouble is all the opting on various features
22:49:54bluebrotherunreadable xml packed in a zip file. How can one diff that?
22:50:28jtrenchardA sprinkle of fairy dust??? Ok then I suppose not.
22:50:35bluebrotherAlexP: opt is one annoying thing, but we might be able to replace that with gcc. We need gcc anyway for building the manual, so it's not a real drawback.
22:50:38MausPbluebrother: I don't expect that others do the work for me. Just asking. But for me it is no problem, if there is no entry in the IpodAccessories wiki page
22:51:07AlexPjtrenchard: Also, how do you include/exclude/change things like buttons/screenshots for each different target?
22:51:40bluebrotherMausP: how do you expect someone who doesn't know you (a) to know your wiki name and (b) how to handle your password? Or are you talking about putting the data in the wiki page instead of signing up?
22:51:51jtrenchardOk, opendocument isn't the best for this application.
22:52:14AlexPjtrenchard: Have a look at the manual source, it is slightly complicated :)
22:52:29bluebrotherjtrenchard: the manual has been an OOo document in the past (some years ago). Moving to LaTeX was the best thing we could have done that time.
22:52:58bluebrotherthe problem is that devs tend to port to more and more targets, making the manual more and more complex.
22:53:03AlexPyep
22:53:06bluebrothersomeone stop this porting!
22:53:12AlexPWe should ban it!
22:53:14jtrenchardYes i can see the point now.
22:53:25AlexPOnly20 supported targets allowed at any one time :)
22:53:47Domonokyso with new targets, we should just drop the old ones :-)
22:53:53bluebrotherdrop those stupid AMS targets! We already have Sandisk players, no need for more!
22:54:12bluebrotherwhich has also the advantage that there is less work to do :P
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22:54:56Domonokymaybe we should limit it to only one target per manufacturer *hehe*
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23:16:11Unhelpful...we could get rid of the manual. rockbox is so intuitive, anyway, and none of the controls or options are ever confusing or inconsistent, especially in the plugins.
23:18:54AlexPUnhelpful: A good point
23:19:31*AlexP is not being overly successful at his reading latex documentation to make it do coloured rows
23:19:41froggymanwhat if we made rockbox more cult-like, and required that every new user goes through an ordeal and that they most know one current member?
23:19:42AlexP(automatically)
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23:21:08Unhelpfulwould the ordeal work something like this? http://pbfcomics.com/?cid=PBF071-Weeaboo.gif
23:23:55froggymanno, we would need a different key word...
23:24:12froggymanmaybe C++ or malloc
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23:28:28CIA-61New commit by 03zagor (r22482): Fixed "gcc: no input files" message.
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23:30:26Unhelpfulhey, i'm practically proposing malloc lately. aside from the parts where it's pointer-based, or relies on VM. :P
23:30:29kugelsaratoga: we have charging on the yh925
23:30:39kugeldid I happen to forget to update the wiki?
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23:46:58AlexPbluebrother: Got it :)
23:47:06AlexPautomatic colouring of rows :)
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23:50:42AlexPbluebrother: http://aeparker.com/files/rb-test.pdf
23:54:53 Quit Omlet ()
23:58:25Zagorgevaerts: could the bootloaders somehow be miscalibrated? everyone does them really slowly.

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