#rockbox 2009-09-17

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#rockbox log for 2009-09-17

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00:20:47	amiconn	Zagor: No news item re the wiki update etc?
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00:25:57	froggyman	if I were to get a new battery for my iPod Video (30GB) what battery capacity would you recommend
00:26:00	froggyman	?
00:26:18	krazykit	whatever the capacity of the battery is
00:28:00	froggyman	well, the standard is 480 mAH, but you can get up to 800 mAH, and various ones in between; I know with the higher capacities their may be a chance of it expanding, has anyone had this problem
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00:30:27	krazykit	froggyman, oh, i see, which one should you buy, not "what do i set rockbox to"
00:30:52	froggyman	that is correct
00:35:04	Zagor	amiconn: news added
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00:50:59	aidy	mcuelenaere: thanks for the help, everything works now on the D2. It would be great to be able to set a song's rating from the wps though... would that be hard to implement?
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00:51:47	mcuelenaere	aidy: I don't know, I suppose that's related to the database? I have zero experience with that part :)
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00:53:16	aidy	mcuelenaere: okay :)
00:53:40	aidy	I'll ask on the forums somitem
00:53:43	aidy	sometime
00:53:48	mcuelenaere	aidy: is there any support for viewing the song's rating in a wps atm?
00:53:56	aidy	yes
00:54:55	aidy	how does the screendump feature in the debug menu work
00:56:09	froggyman	it does a screen dump whenever you plug it into USB, then stores the picture in the root directory of the device, you simply click it to enable then click again to dis able
00:56:29	aidy	aha
00:56:39	aidy	wasn't sure when it'd capture
00:59:04	froggyman	its on the wiki, next time you should check their first(searching or using the doc index will be easiest) then if you cant find it, ask on here :)
00:59:28	aidy	*there
00:59:29	aidy	yw
00:59:30	aidy	:P
00:59:44	aidy	but you're right
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01:06:11	aidy	screendumps don't actually seem to work on the D2
01:07:02	sdfdfg2345dferg	hello, im attempting to run the Rockbox Utility and am getting the error "network error: request aborted"
01:07:09	kugel	something is still bugged with the deps
01:07:15	sdfdfg2345dferg	im running behind a nat firewall, is their any ports i need to open?
01:07:33	kugel	that LANG_LIMITER -> LANG_COMPRESSOR change destroyed my build
01:09:45	sdfdfg2345dferg	can anyone help me with my problem? :)
01:11:10	pixelma	when do you get that error, I mean what do you want to install at that moment?
01:12:47	sdfdfg2345dferg	i recieve this error as soon as i open the application, i havn't attempted to install rockbox yet, ive noticed that its retriving the themes fine
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01:12:56	sdfdfg2345dferg	what the hell, ill hit install and see what happens
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01:19:25	pixelma	some things changed yesterday when the Rockbox server was moved to a new location which meant that some parts are not in the location the Utility expects them anymore (themes have been on a different server before so weren't affected), I guess that has something to do with that
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01:32:11	sdfdfg2345dferg	ok just installed it fine, wow that was the easiest open source install ever
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07:37:29	TheSeven	FYI, guys, we managed to execute code on the 4g nano tonight! Farthen's Nanotron robot found the sweet spot, and cmwslw confirmed it. We hope to have a memory dump of that thing soon.
07:37:49	rvvs89	Awesome
07:38:15	JdGordon	WOOHOO!
07:38:15	JdGordon	well done
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07:44:09	LinusN	whoa!
07:44:13	TheSeven	bruteforce robots are a really nice offload for people :-)
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08:01:25	*	LinusN is impressed by the nanotron :-)
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09:25:14	TheSeven\|Mobile	sorry for join/quit spam, stupid phone having issues...
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09:26:10	CIA-43	New commit by 03dave (r22714): Add an app.lds and some stub functions for the Nano 2G - this isn't enough to make rockbox.bin compile, but it's a step towards it (more commits ...
09:30:07		Quit bertrik ("De groeten")
09:36:11	CIA-43	New commit by 03dave (r22715): Add PLL2 definitions for the S5L8701, plus some config file tweaks for the Nano2G
09:43:49	linuxstb	Current status of the Nano 2G (not all in SVN yet) - http://173.78.93.52:8080/rockbox.jpg
09:47:39	Zagor	nice!
09:48:15	linuxstb	Button/wheel driver is working, but no NAND access yet.
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09:58:25	AlexP	Zagor: There are no manuals at http://www.rockbox.org/manual.shtml - has the page changed?
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10:00:02	Zagor	hmm
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10:05:21	CIA-43	New commit by 03dave (r22716): TIMERB is in a different location on the S5L8701
10:09:00	CIA-43	New commit by 03dave (r22717): Fix unreliable LCD updates on the "type 0" LCD. Plus add some comments and a stub lcd_blit_yuv()
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10:25:01	CIA-43	New commit by 03dave (r22718): Fix a comment so that it matches the code
10:27:59	Zagor	AlexP: manuals are slowly trickling in now. the nightly build was buggy.
10:48:19	AlexP	Zagor: ta :)
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11:00:31	kugel	awesome success on the nano2g!
11:00:34	kugel	and 4g!
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11:18:38	merbzt	where can I find details about the crypto ?
11:26:23	Llorean	Hey, um, why didn't we ever just use the size of the firmware partition to distinguish 32mb and 64mb iPods?
11:26:37	Llorean	Doesn't the 64MB one always have a larger firmware partition for the larger hibernation data?
11:27:14	Llorean	Or at least, shouldn't it? (Since it may be that they just partition all 80gb ones with a 128mb firmware partition to be safe)
11:27:36	LinusN	i haven't thought of that
11:27:38	linuxstb	Llorean: ipodpatcher now does proper RAM detection (using the XML scsi inquiry)
11:27:52	Llorean	linuxstb: Ah, even better.
11:28:14	Llorean	Well ignore me then. :)
11:28:23	linuxstb	Although I don't think that's been released in rbutil yet (it doesn't matter for ipodpatcher itself, as the bootloader is the same).
11:28:47	LinusN	i read the comments to the nanontron post on hackaday
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11:29:05	linuxstb	merbzt: Which crypto? http://l4n.cluster.com is the linux4nano wiki which has whatever documentation is available.
11:29:09	LinusN	"don’t have any clue why they don’t just wire up the darn switches directly to a uC"
11:29:23	LinusN	easy answer: it's not nearly as fun!!!
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11:46:40	merbzt	linuxstb: the nano gen2 firmware crypto and key
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11:52:14	linuxstb	merbzt: TheSeven\|Mobile should be able to tell you more, but I believe it's simply AES-encrypted, using the hardware crypto unit in the Nano 2G's CPU. That crypto unit has two keys - a generic one (same on all devices) and a device-specific one. Apple helpfully used the generic one for the firmware (and NOR) encryption.
11:53:50	linuxstb	You can't extract those keys, just use then to encrypt/decrypt data. So a bootloader needs to be encrypted on a real device (but any device) before writing it to the firmware partition.
11:56:04	merbzt	I thought it was something like that
11:58:35	kugel	linuxstb: I can't access that page
11:59:41	kugel	http://l4n.clustur.com/index.php works
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12:30:59	kugel	markun: nope, but possibly the same as clipv2
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12:31:31	markun	I was thinking of buying one for my girlfriend
12:31:55	kugel	but we're not sure for clipv2 either, it appears to be as3531, and the disassembly showed some armv5 instructions
12:32:29	kugel	oh, I wasn't aware that the cpu is a key-feature for your girlfriend :)
12:32:35	markun	;)
12:32:40	soap	scorche, Llorean: I know I am constantly comparing our forums to HydrogenAudio - but I /do/ think they are an example of many things done right.
12:32:42	markun	she likes rockbox
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12:33:52	soap	Anyway - to the meat of my point: HA.org now has what I consider to be a really nice forum "tweak" wherein as soon as someone quotes your posting you can no longer edit it. There also is a time window (I don't know the length) on editing posts.
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12:34:32	soap	Llorean, I know you are w/o forum admin powers - but your input is always welcome.
12:35:15	soap	I bring this up, because of gdfj12's recent thread work where he has edited out so much of his offensive work as to make the thread rather confusing.
12:36:22	kugel	the quote isn't updated when someone edits the original post, is it?
12:36:28	soap	nope
12:36:38	kugel	so the original message would still be in the quote
12:37:28	soap	assuming the replier quoted the whole thing.
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12:38:24	soap	one can drastically change the tone, and even the thrust, of a post by editing only the unquoted prose.
12:39:11	Llorean	kugel: Since the quote is just whatever is between [quote] markers anyway, it becomes a "his word against mine" if someone edits their original post.
12:39:24	kugel	I think having a time frame is good, it still allows fixing small typos, but not changing one's opinion in the meantime
12:39:43	AlexP	What if you change your opinion?
12:39:50	kugel	add another post
12:39:52	soap	you make a new post
12:39:59	AlexP	If nobody has replied?
12:40:06	kugel	in a real conversion you can't just undo what you said either
12:40:11	AlexP	I can see the once it has been quoted, replied to
12:40:23	AlexP	thing, as as soap said that can get confusing
12:40:31	Llorean	kugel: No, but in a real conversation you can also apologize to the person you said it to, and ask them not to repeat it.
12:40:38	AlexP	But I don't see why edits should only have a certain time if nobody has replied
12:40:40	Llorean	Which is, essentially, what editing a post before anyone else reading it is doing.
12:40:55	soap	"I'm not racist, but did you ever notice how .... ... ... "
12:41:32	kugel	AlexP: our "must not double post" surely complicates it a bit
12:41:40	AlexP	I'd agree with the once quoted "lock" it thing (or once replied to), but not a timelimit for edits if nobody has replied
12:41:40	Llorean	I do like the idea of "can't change a quoted post" but I don't know if that's even possible with our software without some work (and would then probably still be unreliable)
12:41:52	soap	AlexP, I don't claim to have a perfect understanding of how their modifications work. Perhaps I was in err over the time limit aspect.
12:42:04	Llorean	Actually, a "once replied to, can't be edited" wouldn't be bad in my opinion though
12:42:21	AlexP	Yes, I think the once replied can't edit has merit
12:42:26	Llorean	Since a lot of times someone will post, rethink the post, and edit it while someone's writing a reply so there's a mismatch even without quotes
12:42:51	soap	_that_ still slips by on HA.
12:43:35	soap	it appears the rule is no pressing the edit button after someone posts their reply, not no posting an edit after someone posts their reply.
12:44:49	soap	I get the impression through usage that I could press the edit button as soon as I post, walk away, and have the back door to post my edit at anytime in the future.
12:45:27	AlexP	I don't suspect that'd be a major problem though
12:45:28	Llorean	soap: does it post an "edited at:" watermark on the posts at least?
12:45:33	soap	yes
12:46:38	AlexP	soap: Anway, you don't need to sneakily circumvent it, you would be able to edit them anytime :)
12:46:50	Llorean	I mean, the goal is to have all new information added to the thread in chronological order. It would be nice to let people go back and fix typos but non essential. I do, however, think it's essential to give people time to fix a poorly though post before people read (or at least, respond to) it.
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12:49:45	Llorean	I guess the real problem is simply support for the feature in software.
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13:04:10	soap	My old offer still stands to pay for the switch if Rockbox ever decides to go to IPB.
13:05:19	soap	( I offer to pay as I don't have /any/ experience in what is likely a PITA initial setup) ;)
13:08:45	AlexP	Isn't that proprietry?
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13:28:42	soap	yes - but I don't see what the downside of that is.
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13:34:35	AlexP	That we have to pay for it
13:35:08	AlexP	Also, to a small extent the principle
13:35:37	AlexP	But I don't know anything about the relative strengths of SMF vs IPB
13:36:02	AlexP	All I know is that I'd rather be open source if it doesn't bring any downsides :)
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13:43:59	Zagor	generally the downside is that you're not able/allowed to modify it. but maybe you get source with IPB?
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13:48:55	soap	IPB is quite inexpensive (free if you take up soap on his offer). It also has excellent support (ex. they'll convert any existing database over for you), I /believe/ you get full source, and the "mindshare" for it seems higher (in a iPhone Apps Store vs Android Apps sorta way)
13:49:34	soap	and just about every feature we have ever discussed as (possibly being) missing is already in it or easily available.
13:50:06	Zagor	is HA running IPB?
13:50:31	gevaerts	if you want fully open source forum software, from what I understand SMF also doesn't apply anyway
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13:52:00	soap	Zagor, yes
13:52:22	soap	and i don't consider $150 but a pittance for a tool that does what you want.
13:54:07	Zagor	I don't have an opinion. as gevaerts says, we're already on non-opensource forum software.
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13:59:06	Zagor	btw, the forums and themes sites should grab the new head.html
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14:03:04	tristan	d riebeling?
14:05:12	kugel	Zagor: the foswiki tables are nice, but it's annoying that they don't have column seperators. Can that be changed in some way?
14:05:27	Zagor	the don't?
14:05:53	kugel	no, http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SansaAMS looks like a mess for example
14:06:40	Zagor	gosh! it looks just fine in opera... I'll fix.
14:07:27	kugel	no separators in ff and chrome
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14:50:38	Zagor	column separators added
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15:47:25	pyro_maniac1	Zagor: why need i to login to see the history of http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SansaAMSFirmware ?
15:48:01	Zagor	good question
15:50:44	Zagor	you don't
15:50:53	Zagor	which exact url are you using?
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15:52:02	pyro_maniac1	you mean this http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/bin/rdiff/Main/SansaAMSFirmware?type=history ?
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15:52:48	pyro_maniac1	on http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/bin/rdiff/Main/SansaAMS?type=history i didn't need to login
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15:53:48	Zagor	strange
15:54:46	Zagor	for some reason it gets redirected to bin/rdiffauth, which requires authentication
15:56:31	pyro_maniac1	yesterday i was loged in and i opend a histrory ( maybe even this ) and there seems to get something changed and a new revision was created
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16:20:51	kugel	Zagor: another strangeness I've noticed: if you click on one of the links at the beginning of a wiki page (to jump to captions), it reloads the whole page and then jumps. I'd expect to just jump
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16:22:25	Zagor	that is indeed strange
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16:24:10	Zagor	kugel: aha, that looks like it is a mistake in my url rewriting
16:26:09	pyro_maniac1	Zagor: the mailing list overview in the frontpage seems to be not updated too
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18:29:02	w1ll14m	hi guys
18:29:07	w1ll14m	how's this possible ?
18:29:18	w1ll14m	http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/bin/rdiff/Main/SansaAMSFirmware?rev1=29;rev2=28
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18:31:11	w1ll14m	i clicked link on recent wiki changes somehow i changed a wiki page even without knowing it....
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18:35:12	DirtySkeMe	hello
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18:35:33	Luderic	Hello, I've got a small question about themes
18:35:48	DirtySkeMe	rockbox is only work on ipod under windows?
18:36:23		Quit robin0800 (Remote closed the connection)
18:36:30	w1ll14m	DirtySkeMe rockbox requires a supported ipod which is fat32 formatted
18:37:05	DirtySkeMe	mean i need my ipod to run on itunes window
18:37:16	DirtySkeMe	cause i'm a mac user
18:37:18	evilnick	Luderic: Ask away, if anyone knows then they'll answer
18:38:35	evilnick	DirtySkeMe: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/IpodConversionToFAT32 could be useful reading then
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18:39:34	DirtySkeMe	is it possible i format it to fat32 then install rockbox and still have it working on my itumes mac?
18:40:08	Luderic	I've made a theme that is an exact copy of the WPS from the Sansa E200 player, to use it on the Sansa E200 with Rockbox. It use picture extracted from the original firmware. Would it be "legal" to publish it on the theme website for Rockbox, if it's only for use on the Sansa E200?
18:40:37	evilnick	DirtySkeMe: I doubt it, but I don't use a Mac so I'm not 100% sure. I imagine that the Mac version of iTunes would expect a Mac-formatted iPod.
18:40:53	w1ll14m	DirtySkeMe as far as i know mac supports fat32 formatted ipods
18:41:09	evilnick	DirtySkeMe: Maybe you could use virtualisation and use a Windows version of iTunes if your Mac doesn't support it.
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18:41:17	DirtySkeMe	i'll try
18:41:39	DirtySkeMe	but use a vm for my music collection no way
18:41:39	evilnick	Luderic: No, that would be infringing the copyright of the original firmware
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18:42:36	Luderic	evilnick: Ok, thank you for the information. I'll keep it for myself then =3
18:42:47	DirtySkeMe	in the faq they say it should work
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19:00:42	gevaerts	evilnick: itunes on mac handles fat32 formatted ipods just fine
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19:15:27	evilnick	gevaerts: Thanks for the info
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19:50:51	bertrik	nice to see the stuff committed for nano2g by linuxstb, it will probably help in getting the meizus forward too
19:51:44	shotofadds	so... who is best to speak to about the themes site?
19:52:07	shotofadds	I'd like to get the D2 added to encourage development of touch-enabled themes
19:52:29	aidy	shotofadds:
19:52:36	aidy	hi thar
19:52:57	shotofadds	..but since the D2 shares the same resolution as another player (iPod Video, 320x240) there might need to be some distinction between touch and non-touch themes
19:52:59	aidy	shotofadds: did you try out the theme
19:53:21	shotofadds	aidy: no sorry, just got in from work. I'll try it later, it's looking good though
19:53:31	aidy	it's nothing special though
19:54:01	shotofadds	yeah but it's at least one touch-enabled theme - it'll show others how to do it if nothing else
19:54:11	bertrik	shotofadds, there is a mechanism to override wps's of the same resolution from other targets by adding the target name in the wps name
19:54:16	pixelma	shotofadds: maybe it helps you comparing how the different screen depths are seperated for the three 160x128 screens
19:54:37	bertrik	this was done for the clip for example (because of the blue/yellow split)
19:54:38	aidy	shotofadds: the mrobe 500 theme works too i think
19:54:41	pixelma	bertrik: that would be SVN included themes
19:54:49		Quit JdGordon_ (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
19:55:04	pixelma	I thought he was talking about the theme site...
19:55:04	shotofadds	bertrik: even for svn themes that's not ideal, since several targets could share the same touch theme...
19:55:11	shotofadds	(eg. m:robe in 320x240 mode)
19:55:13	bertrik	pixelma, and I'm probably confusing wps's with themes I think
19:55:33	shotofadds	aidy: I haven't tried that, but if it is a touch-enabled Cabbie we should make it the default
19:56:34	aidy	yes
19:56:52	shotofadds	although as bertrik said, we will have to copy the m:robe one and add 'cowond2' to the name. I don't like that :/
19:56:59	pixelma	shotofadds: the theme site code is in SVN (different module IIRC), you could do the changes yourself and "just" need someone to put them online (similar to the frontpage), I think
19:57:31	shotofadds	pixelma: it's a great idea, except I know no PHP (and I think there's a database table somewhere listing the targets.. which I have no access to)
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19:58:22	shotofadds	looking at svn, mcuelenaere and rasher are the people to talk to...
19:58:54	bertrik	could it be that looking at the history of a wiki page causes it to be marked as edited?
19:58:55	pixelma	but with different people administering the site (rasher is one of them - maybe you can help you too ;) )
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19:59:51	bertrik	I saw something was changed in SansaAMSFirmware so I just looked at the history, then suddenly it was marked as edited by me on the rockbox homepage
20:00
20:00:24	shotofadds	pixelma: I've drawn an SVG of the D2 which I will add to the manuals section in SVN, are there any special requirements for that?
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20:00:39	shotofadds	also, do you know how the images used for the website are generated?
20:01:07	pixelma	bertrik: I think I read in the logs that this happened to ones before you too (which is the reason why it was marked as edited)
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20:02:49	pixelma	shotofadds: special requirements... if you also want to produce the png and especially the pdf, I found that the epstopdf tool doesn't like filled areas with holes and transparency
20:03:00	aidy	shotofadds: should I release under creative commons? (would involve drawing some icons)
20:03:50	pixelma	the small images were exported with Inkscape from the SVG - set to 80 pixels for the wides dimension, then handed to Bagder
20:04:04	pixelma	widest too
20:04:53	shotofadds	aidy: have you read the theme guidelines? http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/ThemeGuidelines
20:05:07	shotofadds	pixelma: thanks, i'll bear that in mind
20:05:11	pixelma	shotofadds: the "transparency" in my previous statement was meant generally not referring to the filled areas
20:06:04	pixelma	shotofadds, aidy: for some reason I think that wiki o
20:06:12	pixelma	page is out of date
20:06:13	shotofadds	mine should hopefully be ok, it's all made out of solid shapes afaik
20:06:33	*	pixelma hates backspace near the enter key
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20:07:49	aidy	well gpl is almost the same as CC SA
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20:08:01	pixelma	hmmm... didn't the wiki pages have the date and author of the last change listed at the bottom somewhere?
20:08:39	shotofadds	yes, that seems to have disappeared
20:08:57	shotofadds	seems Zagor isn't here now...
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20:26:53	bertrik	n1s, you haven't committed your RTC internal format patch yet, right?
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20:27:31	bertrik	n1s, someone claims the calendar is off by one day in http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/10610 on ipod 5g, maybe you saw something weird with that
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20:39:34	w1ll14m	can someone with wiki knownledge check what happened here http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/bin/rdiff/Main/SansaAMSFirmware?rev1=29;rev2=28
20:40:04	w1ll14m	when i was browsing recent.shtml i clicked the link to SansaAMSFirmware.. it seems it somehow changes something after that
20:40:43	w1ll14m	i don't understand what happened as i did not change it
20:40:55	bertrik	w1ll14m, that happened to several people
20:41:00	w1ll14m	hmmm how strange
20:41:28	w1ll14m	phfeww... than it's not a mistake i made ;)
20:42:00	w1ll14m	cool commits for the nano 2g!
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20:52:08	bluebrother	hmm. The collapsed build table also hides the download links ...
20:53:40	bluebrother	and what's the reason for providing the mr500 build but not the beast?
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20:55:16	aidy	why doesn't the cabbie theme get included if I build an mrobe 500 target
20:56:23	JdGordon\|	because its not fixed for 640x480
20:56:34	aidy	o
20:57:27	pixelma	bluebrother: I think this is because the beast isn't called supported due to unreliable installation
21:00
21:00:05	aidy	how would i go about assembling the cabbiev2 mrobe 500 theme
21:00:09	aidy	in it's current state
21:00:19	aidy	because i need it for the D2
21:00:58	JdGordon\|	the d2 one shuold work?
21:01:14	JdGordon\|	just rename the mrobe500 in the filename to d2
21:01:21	JdGordon\|	or something like that
21:01:25	aidy	there are some icons
21:01:38	JdGordon\|	they wont change
21:01:51	aidy	no i mean, that the d2 version doesn't have
21:01:53	JdGordon\|	rename it to d2 then do a d2 build
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21:12:36	w1ll14m	how can i extract nano2g osos image and strip crypto header ?
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21:40:16	TheSeven	w1ll14m: see our wiki
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22:21:45	Ubuntuxer	Is it ok, if I commit a small patch for snake, which saves the last selected speed, although it's feature freeze ?
22:22:25	JdGordon\|	create a bug for it first :)
22:22:43	Ubuntuxer	ok
22:22:51	JdGordon\|	na, go ahead.. its not a big deal.... new stuff in the core and big plugin changes should be held off thouhg
22:24:03	Ubuntuxer	ok, thanks;-)
22:24:31	bertrik	I wasn't aware of this exception
22:25:56	shotofadds	JdGordon\|: do you know anything about seeking using the progressbar on touchscreen targets?
22:26:16	shotofadds	I find it works, but the skip happens a few seconds after I touch the screen
22:26:21	JdGordon\|	not really
22:26:35	shotofadds	everything else seems to work normally
22:26:40	JdGordon\|	my mr500 has been out of action for a while so I've only played with it in the sim
22:27:08	JdGordon\|	does it pause music before doing the seek?
22:27:34	shotofadds	no, it keeps playing for 2-3 seconds, then seeks
22:29:14	JdGordon\|	thats probably the problem then...
22:29:39	JdGordon\|	that handling is still prrobably in gui/wps.c
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22:30:16	shotofadds	sorry for being dumb, but what do you mean by that?
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22:30:54	JdGordon\|	the touch handler probbaly doesnt call audio_pause() before seeking (which I'm pretty sure regular seeking does)
22:31:10	JdGordon\|	just a guess though
22:31:20	shotofadds	ah, sounds plausible
22:31:39	shotofadds	when you said it's still in gui/wps.c, where should it be?
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22:38:47	CIA-43	New commit by 03Ubuntuxer (r22719): Rename Starting Level to Snake Speed, save the last selected speed, remove highscore list, and clean up the code a little bit
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22:41:43	n1s	bertrik: nope, not comitted yet, will do after release; i'll look at that during the weekend if i find the time
22:41:46	moustique	Hi. I'm considering to buy an ipod and flash it. Probably ipod Video. Mostly interested in the support for FLAC/Monkey Audio. How up-to-date are the rockbox codecs, seems all the development has been done at least 2 years ago. Will the device work fine with newer edition of these codecs?
22:43:16	JdGordon\|	shouldnt have any problem
22:43:29	JdGordon\|	as long as you actually get a video and not a "classic"
22:43:52	moustique	yeah, they are harder to find now
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22:44:37	Llorean	Don't expect Monkey's Audio to work well on an iPod
22:44:40	Llorean	They're quite slow.
22:45:15	shriven	Hello. So it looks like the very beginning of the disk on my iPod is not functioning, but the rest appears to be fine. My question is, is it possible to boot rockbox/ipodOS from the first partition if it is offset 100mb into the drive?
22:46:11	n1s	and wow, that is some bugreport :)
22:46:45	TheSeven	shriven: theoretically, moving the firmware partition should work. if not, you will still be able to enlarge the firmare partition and move the files (and even the directory) to some other place
22:47:01		Quit bmbl ("Bye!")
22:47:02	JdGordon\|	shriven: yeah, rocbkox shouldnt have any problem booting the first fat32 partition on the disk... the ipod os could be different though
22:47:08	TheSeven	so if the first 126 sectors are still working properly, you should be fine
22:47:34	shotofadds	JdGordon\|: adding a pause/unpause works fine. I'll commit the fix.
22:47:35	n1s	shriven: generally a drive that is showing signs of failure is going to get worse or fail completely "pretty soon"
22:47:50		Quit Zarggg ()
22:47:50	shriven	n1s: yea, I know... Just hoping to get some more usage out of this.
22:48:49	shriven	TheSeven: well, I am pretty sure that in the first 10 sectors or so something is not working. Is it ok to Skip those? ie, currently I have /dev/sdx1 starting at sector 14.
22:49:10	TheSeven	shriven: are you talking about sectors or cylinders?
22:49:35	shriven	TheSeven: /dev/sdb1 14 26 104422+ 83 Linux
22:49:37	CIA-43	New commit by 03rob (r22720): Fix delay when seeking using the touchscreen by adding a pause/unpause.
22:49:53	shriven	TheSeven: from fdisk -l
22:50:56	TheSeven	whatever this means... (don't have a linux box handy)
22:50:59	moustique	oh great, problem with monkey. So is it even worth messing with rockbox then, ipod do play apple lossless. There is this thing http://www.dbpoweramp.com/
22:51:04	shriven	ahh, sorry
22:51:05	shriven	hmmmm
22:51:23	TheSeven	can you just post the headings of that table?
22:51:28		Quit bughunter2 ("Leaving.")
22:51:36	TheSeven	(or just pastebin the whole output)
22:51:36	gevaerts	moustique: if you take a codec that's been designed to have trouble playing realtime on a PC and try to use it on a DAP, what do you expect?
22:52:05	n1s	moustique: it's not a "problem with monkey" the format is just not well suited for playback on devices with relatively slow cpus
22:52:23	shriven	TheSeven: ok, those numbers are the cylinders
22:53:05		Quit n1s ("L�mnar")
22:53:19	*	shotofadds thinks the build system is broken
22:53:24	shriven	TheSeven: here are sectors: http://pastebin.com/m26ca0825
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22:54:10	TheSeven	shriven: as i was talking about the first 126 sectors, that would be the first two tracks on cylinder 0
22:54:24	TheSeven	this is just what is needed for the partition table and the firmware fs superblock
22:54:27	shriven	ok, so another question about the formatting. When I use the bin from the rockbox site to create the partition, it sets the first partition as type "empty", mine is "Linux" is that going to be a problem?
22:54:28	bluebrother	Zagor: what do you think about having the build output in dev.cgi multiline? I.e. a column like "Ipod Nano" gets rows "build", "bootloader", "checkwps" and "sim"?
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22:54:48	shotofadds	any output right now would be good ;-)
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22:54:51	shriven	TheSeven: ok, I think those are fine
22:55:06	TheSeven	shriven: not sure how the apple firmware handles this, but the firmware partition should usually have type 0
22:55:38	shriven	basically my theory is based on when I try to dd of=/dev/zero if=/dev/sdb, it always fails at 8.5 megabytes
22:55:47	shriven	with a read write error
22:55:51	shriven	hmmm ok
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22:57:38	TheSeven	shriven: i would suggest pushing it towards the beginning of the disk
22:57:52	AsaelReiter	kugel: As you suggested, I changed FS #10589 to use macro.
22:58:00	moustique	Just want to confirm that this one is alright to get "rockboxed" http://www.ecost.com/Detail/MP3/Apple/MA003LLA/42515029.aspx?navid=155441533
22:58:19	AsaelReiter	Does anyone know why the webclient doesn't work?
22:58:23	shriven	TheSeven: hmmm, so trying to contain the first partition in the first 8.4 megabytes or so of the disk?
22:58:33	TheSeven	shriven: so /dev/sdb1 would be start 63 end 208844 type 0, and /dev/sdb2 would stay like it is
22:58:41		Quit AsaelReiter (Client Quit)
22:58:48	shriven	TheSeven: ok, I'll give that a shot
22:58:50	shriven	TheSeven: ty
22:58:58	TheSeven	then try to restore a firmware image to the first partition afterwards
22:59:06	shriven	ok
22:59:12		Quit Ubuntuxer ("Leaving.")
22:59:47	TheSeven	shriven: if you're seeing an error at 8.5MB within the current /dev/sdb1, it's at physical ~115.5MB on the disk. The firmware partition will easily fit before that
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23:00
23:00:06	shriven	hmmm, ok
23:01:35	CIA-43	New commit by 03kugel (r22721): Fix a bug where the conditional use of %C (i.e. %?C) caused the album art to draw (noticed in FS #10596).
23:01:51	moustique	Seems like ipod video are only available apple-recertified now. Is there a good chance that it doesn't break quickly? Has anyone bought them refurbed? Just have little trust to those...
23:03:30	CIA-43	New commit by 03vitja (r22722): i7: Fix memory bus initialization, thanks to Genia Bezman!
23:03:31	Zagor	bluebrother: I think it would be quite complex. I don't think we need to see all 152 builds all the time.
23:03:43	CIA-43	New commit by 03bluebrother (r22723): Refactor mknkboot in preparation for beastpatcher integration. ...
23:04:46	bluebrother	Zagor: ok. I'm just kinda missing the table :)
23:05:37	CIA-43	New commit by 03kugel (r22724): Wormlet: Fix food and argh possibly overlapping each other. ...
23:08:25		Quit DaveDavenport (Remote closed the connection)
23:08:31	JdGordon\|	arg... /me wants to look at the svn diff :(
23:08:40		Join DaveDavenport [0] (n=qball@ipd50a4125.speed.planet.nl)
23:10:56	kugel	JdGordon\|: once it's save, please have a look at my very band aid from FS #10599. I think it's a dirty band aid, but it's better than having the bug in the release I think
23:11:13	kugel	safe*
23:11:40		Quit gregzx ("ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.2/20090729225027]")
23:11:58	JdGordon\|	yeah, this arvo... we can always remove the bandaid when a better fix happens
23:12:42	*	JdGordon\| wont have any rockbox time untill monday unfortunatly :(
23:12:45	kugel	sure, but the chances for a better fix usually drastically reduces if the known bugs are gotten around
23:13:31		Quit bluebrother ("leaving")
23:14:40	kugel	and I think the only better fix is introducing %Cd which breaks all WPSs
23:14:48	JdGordon\|	I disagree
23:14:59	JdGordon\|	well...
23:15:10	JdGordon\|	it would have been better at the begining, but its too late now I tihnk
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23:15:34	kugel	I meant, it's not optimal, but any other fix is just going to be a variation of my fix
23:15:38		Part wincent ("Kopete 0.12.7 : http://kopete.kde.org")
23:15:51		Quit Farthen ("ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.3/20090824101458]")
23:16:20	kugel	It's never too late for getting the crowd against us with huge breakage :)
23:16:32	JdGordon\|	after the release... not before
23:17:03	kugel	not sure if that's any better. then we have WPS that only work with the latest release and the other only work with the current build
23:17:16	JdGordon\|	yes
23:17:18	kugel	I think it would be better if the situation was the same for current builds and the latest release
23:18:12	JdGordon\|	no, most people stay on the last releae (apparently)... current build it supposed to be unstable
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23:19:56	shriven	TheSeven: Hey... so I'm not sure how to set which sector my partition starts/ends at, fdisk uses cylinders. How do I do that?
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23:20:22		Quit petur (Remote closed the connection)
23:20:23	kugel	JdGordon\|: so you want each theme twice on the theme site? once for the release folk and once for the current build guys?
23:21:01	JdGordon\|	not nessecarily
23:21:16	JdGordon\|	if there was a "show only current build" themes then yes
23:21:24	aidy	shriven: you can change that
23:21:37	shriven	yea? ok, I'll have a read through the man page
23:24:00	saratoga	hey Vitja is back
23:24:04	shriven	aidy: hmm, I'm not seeing anything. Do you know off the top of your head how to change it?
23:24:35	shriven	aidy: nm! I got it
23:24:43	shriven	it did work, just wasn't immediately apparent. : )
23:24:59	aidy	shriven: :)
23:25:51		Quit _Tristan (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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23:27:38	pixelma	kugel: I've been told to ask you about the statusbar problem after leaving the colour choser screen - it gets wrong colours until the next redraw (so if you "lucky" you don't see it) at least after setting background or foreground colour to something different. Any idea?
23:28:06		Join DirtySkeM3 [0] (n=DirtySke@nor75-19-82-244-50-203.fbx.proxad.net)
23:28:21	DirtySkeM3	hello
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23:29:06	DirtySkeM3	after installed a virtual pc on my mac and itunes windows i did format my ipod nano 1st generation to win
23:29:27		Quit evilnick ("Page closed")
23:29:28	bertrik	meh, make reconf doesn't seem to work for creativezvm30
23:29:40	DirtySkeM3	then now when i try to install loader or full install i get could not open ipod
23:30:05	DirtySkeM3	then i tried login as root same problem
23:30:23		Quit efyx_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:30:25	DirtySkeM3	anyone have a solution
23:30:33	DirtySkeM3	getting tired of this
23:31:41	Llorean	DirtySkeM3: Does rbutil auto-detect it properly?
23:32:18	DirtySkeM3	nopenever did
23:33:10	Llorean	What color is it?
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23:37:32	DirtySkeM3	black
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23:37:41	DirtySkeM3	4gig
23:38:34	Llorean	DirtySkeM3: Then you need to figure out what's odd about it that's preventing rbutil from detecting it. Is the original firmware working normally? What type (numeric) is the second partition?
23:39:27	DirtySkeM3	before it was in mac format and it couldn't detect it
23:39:40	DirtySkeM3	now in window mode same problem
23:39:43	Llorean	That doesn't answer any of my questions.
23:40:14	DirtySkeM3	i don't get your question
23:40:28	Llorean	Is the original firmware working properly?
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23:41:57	DirtySkeM3	yeah it was when it was in mac format
23:42:05	DirtySkeM3	and now in windows too
23:42:06	Llorean	Is, not was.
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23:43:26	Llorean	Okay, now if you check the partition types in some program (for example fdisk) what type is the second partition. It should show something like 0xB or 0x0B or 0xC or 0x0C
23:43:27	domonoky	DirtySkeM3: you could try the manual way to install with ipodpatcher (see manual)
23:43:59	Llorean	domonoky: If rbutil isn't detecting it, we should at least figure out why (as it's either something that needs fixed in rbutil, or something that will cause ipodpatcher to fail too, right?)
23:44:08	domonoky	Llorean: true
23:44:38	*	Llorean wishers linuxstb were around.
23:45:08	kugel	pixelma: JdGordon's just trying to give me the bugs. I don't think I'm responsible for this old bug
23:45:12	Llorean	domonoky: Do you know if it looks at the partition types? I seem to recall that restoring could leave the second partition as 0x0C (which is valid, but it's normally 0x0B I think)
23:45:13	DirtySkeM3	i used disk utility
23:45:24	DirtySkeM3	it only show 1 partition as fat32
23:45:28	kugel	I've noticed it myself, but I'm not sure how to fix it
23:45:52	Llorean	DirtySkeM3: There should be two partitions. One is hidden. Which may mean you need to use a better tool.
23:45:53	kugel	one could try to do send_event(GUI_ACTIONUPDATE) upon exiting, it may help
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23:46:09	Llorean	DirtySkeM3: And as I said, I want to know the numeric type, not the description they use for it.
23:46:43	DirtySkeM3	i'm a mac use
23:46:45	DirtySkeM3	r
23:47:00	DirtySkeM3	don't know about command line
23:47:15		Part shriven
23:47:24	DirtySkeM3	i never thru couples hours ago this will be so much a hassle
23:47:30	domonoky	afaik mac also has fdisk (in the command line)
23:47:47	Llorean	DirtySkeM3: For most people it's no hassle at all. Something is different about your iPod, which is what we need to figure out.
23:47:51	DirtySkeM3	i thru i just needed the utility and that's it
23:48:16	*	domonoky wonders what "thru" is .. :-)
23:48:25	DirtySkeM3	i found on the forum bunch of the people did have the same trouble
23:48:41	DirtySkeM3	i was thinking......
23:49:12	JdGordon\|	uh oh!
23:49:16		Join linuxstb [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
23:49:20	DirtySkeM3	i reformat my ipod to win cause it won't install it
23:49:38	DirtySkeM3	now they is something wrong somewhere and nobody know
23:49:41	domonoky	DirtySkeM3: how did you convert ?
23:49:54	DirtySkeM3	using itunes on winxp
23:50:07	DirtySkeM3	as i readed in the faq
23:50:36	DirtySkeM3	no i gone try from my VM winxp to do the install
23:50:42	DirtySkeM3	maybe it will work
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