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#rockbox log for 2009-09-24

00:00:17CIA-43New commit by 03kugel (r22812): Restore the sentence that describes unusable ports from r22808.
00:01:25kugelgevaerts: can you deactivate usb on the ipods?
00:02:29 Part Erant ("Leaving")
00:03:38 Quit bluebrother ("leaving")
00:07:30CIA-43New commit by 03kugel (r22813): Modify version strings for 3.4
00:12:34gevaertskugel: not now
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00:15:34linuxstbkugel: "targets which have only code and just a bootloader but nothing else are not even unusable" <−− Some targets in that list are at that stage (which is how I think it should be).
00:16:27kugelso it should list everything that has code in SVN but is not stable or unstable=
00:16:37kugelthen it lacks a number of targets
00:17:31kugelI think it should at least be able show the main menu
00:17:35*linuxstb wonders about JdGordon's addition to TargetClassifications - http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/bin/rdiff/Main/TargetClassifications?rev1=3;rev2=2
00:17:59 Quit bubsy (Client Quit)
00:18:04kugelyea, that's where I got the idea from, and I agree with that
00:18:15 Quit ender` (" I have never won a debate with an ignorant person. -- Ali ibn Abi Talib")
00:18:24linuxstbkugel: I disagree - getting a bootloader working on a device is a major task, and worthy of at least "unusable" IMO. A working bootloader means the hard problems are all solved (accept perhaps audio playback)
00:18:37linuxstbs/accept/except/
00:18:46linuxstbi.e. LCD, buttons, NAND/disk reading.
00:19:06linuxstbAnd of course a way to run third-party code.
00:19:16JdGordon|linuxstb: well, it depends who the list is aimed at... for developers then yes getting a bootloader working is useful information, but regular users just want to know when its good enough to star being usable
00:19:22kugela bootloader doesn't necessarily mean anything
00:19:39JdGordon|having nothing but a bootloader *is* unusable
00:19:58kugelthe fuze had a bootloader before it could read a single button. and then there's lyre which has also code in svn
00:20:03linuxstbAnd what is that section called?
00:20:19linuxstbIt's not called "nearly unstable".
00:21:04JdGordon|sure, but you dont really want to put nano2g in the same group as somerthing which just about has music playing do you?
00:21:05kugelwell, I understood that the names are only (partly) placeholders anyway
00:21:21linuxstbJdGordon|: Yes, I would.
00:21:22ZagorJdGordon|: I do
00:21:27kugelon the list it was agreed that we can think about the names later, since if we do it now we won't ever get it done
00:22:10JdGordon|I tihnk thats a bad idea, and is bound to have more annoying people come in asking to test and use these ports which are barely started
00:22:23linuxstbHas it so far?
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00:22:58JdGordon|it hasnt been up long enough to know has it?
00:23:03ZagorJdGordon|: I want a list of targets where significant work has been done, but which are still unfit even for testing by users. "unusable" fits those needs fine IMO
00:23:22*linuxstb agrees with Zagor
00:23:32JdGordon|I think adding targets which are unfit for users on the front page is a bad idea
00:23:55JdGordon|I also see no reason to give those manufacturers and more free advertising when its so early still
00:24:10JdGordon|2 very seperate issues though
00:24:27kugelwe can have that list everywhere in the wiki, but on the front page which random people look at it will just create useless noise
00:24:52linuxstbThe website isn't just for users. It's to attract new developers.
00:25:08Zagorour front page is a vertiable grand central station of noise...
00:25:10linuxstbIf a user comes here wanting to use an "unusable" port, then the answer is obvious.
00:25:14kugelanyway, I made the string so that it happens what's stated on the wiki, the wiki was wrong apparently (/me's quickly giving the blame to JdGordon :P )
00:25:23JdGordon|then name the groups "stable" "ready for brave testers" "developers only" or something
00:25:25kugels/happens/matches/
00:25:58bertriknano2g isn't really that far from playing music I think, given that we know how to do PCM on it
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00:26:42ZagorJdGordon|: I don't see how the current names and explanations are confusing
00:27:16ZagorI definitely agree it's noisy. but that's a broader issue that plagues the whole page.
00:27:57kugelgevaerts: it would be nice if we can make the release within the next 90 min. unfortunately I don't know how to deactive usb on ipods properly (neither which are affected)
00:27:59Zagorrumor has it someone designed a clean page for us...
00:28:27JdGordon|ok, I just really dont like the clip and beast being in the same group as some of those unusables...
00:28:50kugelI think the beast is only in unusable because nobody put it into unstable
00:29:00gevaertskugel: I definitely have no time for the next three hours. Can't you check the 3.3 branch to see what was done there?
00:29:10kugelthat's a good idea
00:30:51linuxstbJdGordon|: Yes, the Beast really doesn't belong there, but that's simply waiting for MrSomeone to do some binary releases and check the install instructions are accurate.
00:31:17JdGordon|no, thats the reason why its not in stable....
00:31:29linuxstbNo.
00:31:44linuxstbRead the TargetClassifications page.
00:32:13 Quit yoruk ()
00:33:27JdGordon|OK, then I go back to saying that the gap between unusable and unstable is too big
00:34:01***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:34:16JdGordon|ullet Well organized wiki explaining the current state of the port (see SansaAMS for example) <- that should be in unstable
00:34:27 Quit MethoS- (Remote closed the connection)
00:34:32JdGordon|ullet Binary releases of any required installation tools for one or more OSes. <- shuold be stable
00:34:40JdGordon|unstable should have been unusable I mean
00:35:08JdGordon|compile bootloader I dont tihnk is a mjor thing for unstable, unless its a brickable target like hxxx
00:35:32 Quit LambdaCalculus37 ("Fwump")
00:36:04Zagorshouldn't a target should be included in an official release before going into "stable"?
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00:37:34linuxstbZagor: That seems sensible, given the relatively short time between releases.
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00:41:14CIA-43New commit by 03bertrik (r22814): CREDITS: remove duplicate names
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00:41:46 Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net)
00:42:10CIA-43New commit by 03kugel (r22815): Use OF USB on the ipods. Using our own USB code exposes some problems, such as the current charging issues (for many people, charging basically ...
00:46:27JdGordon|Zagor: I think thats a pointless milestone tbh
00:47:37ZagorJdGordon|: I think it makes sense that our "tier one" status is supported by the released rbutil
00:48:49 Quit Highlander ("Quitte")
00:49:17JdGordon|thats not the same as being in a official release though... is it?
00:49:25CIA-43New commit by 03kugel (r22816): The metronome keymap is still not fixed for ondio, player and c200. Disable for release yet again ...
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00:50:23ZagorJdGordon|: isn't it? we don't do daily builds of rbutil.
00:50:35kugelspeaking of...what do you think of just having 3.4 for unstable?
00:50:50JdGordon|rbutil releases dont happen at the same time as rockbox releases either though
00:50:59kugelwe could also build for them now, but don't distribute. i.e. in case some get stable in the meantime
00:51:05JdGordon|I dont know how rbutil decides what the latest release is
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00:51:31kugeldoes anyone know how to run bins.pl?
00:51:39JdGordon|./bins.pl
00:52:08kugelfrom ?
00:52:15kugelsh: ../tools/configure: not found
00:52:40kugeloh it looks like from the root
00:55:18Zagorkugel: I suggest we delay the release ~8 hours. bins.pl is probably going to take nearly an hour and I really need to go to sleep.
00:55:52kugelI'm currently running it
00:56:04kugelbut yea, my machine won't do it in <1h either
00:56:21kugelwhere's does it put the zips to?
00:56:36ZagorI don't remember. probably in the root
00:56:44kugelwe can still say 23rd, Hawaiian time :p
00:56:47 Quit perfectdrug ()
00:57:24Zagorno it creates an "output" dir
00:57:34kugelah, now I see it too
00:58:10kugelI can let it finish, but uploading will also take a while (~100kB/s upload)
00:58:29Zagoror else I can run it tomorrow on the download server
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00:58:42kugelI'll upload the zips to my webspace and post the link to it here for the logs
00:58:55Zagorok
00:59:03Zagorgood night
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00:59:07kugelnight
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01:20:11gevaertsrasher: have you seen that there are some recent themes without a full name?
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01:21:57rasherNope
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01:22:27gevaertse.g. the latest few on 320x240
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01:51:17kugelpixelma: I was having problems with the documentation of the view playlist feature
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01:57:40kugelpixelma: basically ActionWpsViewPlaylist isn't available for all targets, and there's no existing opt or so. is there a way to test whether a command done with \newcommand is actually defined?
01:58:03kugelI asked google and got some input but couldn't get it to work
02:00
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02:06:34kugelZagor: http://www.alice-dsl.net/simonemartitz/rockbox/builds-3.4.7z
02:07:05kugelI built the unstable ones too. We can decide whether to use them or not. manuals and voices still missing
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02:24:34bfrHello, could someone tell me how to put in a patch?
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02:26:17krazykitbfr, you mean applying patches to the source and compiling? http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/WorkingWithPatches
02:26:51bfrthanks for the link, much help =)
02:28:21bfrI know it would take you some time, but could you walk me through step by step? im 11
02:30:12krazykiti'd really rather not. if you have a specific question about a certain part, i might be able to help
02:30:38JdGordon|have you got linux going or cygwin if you're stuck on windows
02:31:35bfrok,could you tell me how i can find this Bash Shell? thats really all I need
02:31:50Mataamadinstall cygwin
02:31:51bfrim on windows now
02:31:55bfrwill do
02:32:05Mataamadthere's a wiki post about out
02:32:36krazykita wiki page linked in the first part of the WorkingWithPatches page, in fact
02:33:26Mataamadbfr, WHY do you want to compile rockbox anyway?
02:34:04***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:34:35bfrI just wanted to try a few patches, thats all
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02:43:20Rand_Althoris there a way to compile the simulator so that it will not require Cygwin/Linux to run?
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02:44:09gevaertsI assume you mean on windows?
02:44:12Rand_Althoryeah
02:44:17Rand_Althoroops
02:44:25gevaertsYou need mingw then
02:44:40Rand_Althorgoogling...
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02:45:58_ABCHi all! I'd like to learn about how rockbox is interfaced to different hardware and how it replaces the bootloader. I am thinking of contributing to provide other hardware ports.
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03:00
03:03:46_ABCAny pointers?
03:08:47evilnickHave you looked at the NewPorts page in the Wiki?
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03:09:45_ABCevilnick: Yes, I have. Though, I would like to learn how it works.
03:12:06evilnick_ABC: Have you had much experience of working with embedded devices? Cracking encryption? etc.
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03:13:21_ABCevilnick: I have been fiddling with AVRs and doing my own PCBs, etc. I may not have enough experience, but that's why I am here to learn
03:14:19evilnickCool. Your best bet would be to try again when it's daytime in Europe, as the majority of the devs are from there
03:14:55evilnickAlthough having said that, this channel is logged so keep an eye on: http://www.rockbox.org/irc/ to see if anyone's able to help
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03:15:46_ABCevilnick: Ok. right, Europe's time right now is like midnight I suppose
03:16:23evilnickAnd have a look round in the Wiki, especially in the New Ports sections - you might come across something that's useful that someone tried for a different machine
03:17:06evilnickYeah, if you're on EST then the morning is usually a good time
03:17:28_ABCevilnick: Okay. Just curious, have you done hardware interfacing?
03:18:33_ABCevilnick: or do you maintain rockbox system?
03:18:51evilnick_ABC: No, I'm more of a staff member who helps on the forums/IRC, but I haven't ever really got my hands dirty!
03:19:24evilnickBut that kind of chat is more for #rockbox-community - we try and keep the signal to noise ratio as high as we can on this channel
03:19:43_ABCevilnick: ah okay
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03:20:30_ABCevilnick: thanks!
03:21:31evilnick_ABC: No problem :)
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04:23:46Rand_Althoram I blind? Where is the source code download link on http://www.rockbox.org/daily.shtml
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04:25:52Rand_AlthorI got there through a link labled, "Daily builds, voices, fonts and source"
04:30:43Rand_Althorwhere is the source code download?
04:32:13Rand_Althorthis page is down: http://build.rockbox.org/dist/build-source/rockbox-bleeding.tar.bz2
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06:33:15NoireAilesHi guys
06:34:09***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
06:34:41JdGordonping pixelma, Llorean, umm... petur, anyone really i guess
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06:37:39NoireAiles?
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06:46:33JdGordonthe f, F, and r prefixes are all being used in the skin tokens already :(
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07:00
07:03:06JdGordondamn .eu being asleep...
07:12:55LloreanJdGordon: Hi?
07:13:08JdGordondo you record from the fm screen at all?
07:13:27LloreanNo, sorry.
07:13:29JdGordonI think I actually found my answer though
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07:15:05nossracerhello
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07:15:57nossraceri was wondering if someone could tell me how to completely remove all traces of rockbox from my sansa
07:15:58pixelmaJdGordon: I recorded from the radio screen sometimes (a bit ago already)
07:16:29JdGordonI wanted to actually ask if you can record from the fm screen or are you forced to go into the rec screen to do it?
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07:16:54nossraceri have to return it cause my sd card reader broke
07:17:37pixelmaJdGordon: you can do this directly from the radio screen on hwcodec targets. On swcodec targets you start the radio recording from the recording screen
07:18:08JdGordonok... hopefully that wont get in my way
07:18:18JdGordonnossracer: get rbutil and do the uninstall
07:19:09nossracerok will they be able to tell i had it
07:23:04nossracerthank you for your help JdGordon
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07:27:48nossracersorry im back rbutil does not support my player sansa e200r can i just go in manually and delete from the hd
07:29:12nossraceryou know what would be really cool is a version of rockbox for a palm pilot that would be awesome
07:39:58nossracerhello
07:42:31pixelmaI *think* you need to run the e200rpatcher.exe again and it will have an uninstall option but I don't have such a device. Just deleting something from disk won't help you though as the bootloader will still be there
07:43:37pixelmaor e200rpatcher in general, what you used for the initial installation
07:44:46JdGordonarg... kugel... commit the patch so the *id3 can be NULL!
07:45:27nossracerok what if i delete and then update my original firmware wouldnt that completely wipe it out
07:45:32nossraceror i could format
07:47:58nossraceri dont care as long as it boots into original firmware when they turn it on lol
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07:57:54JdGordonladies and gentlemens! I give you..... radio skin!!!!
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07:58:49JdGordonhttp://imagebin.ca/view/IrNbbP8O.html
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08:04:39pixelmaJdGordon: is %t<letter of your choice> for tuner something still free? I know single t and T is already taken (and one other T<something> or so)
08:05:33JdGordonthey appear to be free.. apart from plain %t and $T
08:05:37JdGordon%T even
08:08:38JdGordonI dont think we'll need many tuner/fm/radio-only tags so using t or T could be ok
08:09:09JdGordonas long as we get it "right" from the start :)
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09:11:40*Zagor builds release voices
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10:03:39Zagorso, I guess we have a release
10:03:56Zagortadaa...
10:03:58Zagor;-)
10:05:42ZagorI'll wait for the download mirrors to sync before telling the world
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10:06:57kugelZagor: \o/
10:07:14kugelAlthough we have made it for the 23rd: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=103
10:08:17Zagor:-)
10:08:56*kugel prefers cheating over being late :)
10:10:06Zagorkugel: can you give rbutil a go and see that it finds the release fine?
10:12:19kugelit shows 3.3
10:12:28Zagorwhere does it look?
10:12:38Zagorit wasn't obvious to me from reading rbutil.ini
10:12:46kugelI think it looks for a text file on the download server
10:13:10CIA-43New commit by 03zagor (r22817): Modify version string for 3.4
10:13:11kugelor something like that, I know you don't need to recompile
10:14:02kugeloh, 3.3 didn't touch tarball.sh. I just copied the diff from 3.3 yesterday
10:14:21Zagoryeah it's been the same since 3.0 :-)
10:19:26CIA-43New commit by 03zagor (r22818): Added tag for release 3.4
10:23:46Zagorkugel: try again now
10:23:57Zagorwith rbutil
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10:25:24kugelstill 3.3
10:25:35Zagorhmm
10:25:56Zagoroh, of course. it has to rsync first.
10:26:30ZagorI'm guessing it uses http://download.rockbox.org/daily/build-info to get the release number
10:26:31kugelReleaseChecklist doesn't tell a single word about rbutil
10:26:48Zagor"13. make sure we have a rbutil version around that can install the new version"
10:26:48kugelpossibly
10:27:21kugeloh I overlooked that; but it's out of date
10:27:39Zagorthe checklist or rbutil?
10:27:44kugelor rather, not specific on what to do
10:30:50rasherTheme site updated to 3.4
10:31:19CIA-43New commit by 03zagor (r22819): Added release 3.4
10:32:05Zagorrasher: can you update the page header too? it still links to twiki.
10:32:21Zagor(the left-side menu)
10:33:07rasherwill-do
10:34:16***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:35:13AlexPWas USB enabled on the remaining devices as the release notes claim?
10:35:20AlexPI though it was going to be disapled
10:35:42Zagorit was disabled as in 3.3
10:36:40AlexPI thought so
10:36:50AlexPThis line should go then I guess:
10:36:52AlexPUSB enabled on most remaining devices (PP5020, PP5022, and PP5024 targets)
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10:37:13Zagorgone
10:37:20AlexPcoolio
10:38:56AlexPSo we are all go then :)
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10:39:01AlexPI'll put a note in the forum
10:39:44*rasher thinks this release worked out okay afterall
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10:41:16Zagorwait for the download mirrors to sync
10:41:23Zagorrbutil doesn't work before they do
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10:41:59Zagorhttp://download.rockbox.org/daily/build-info needs to say 3.4
10:42:39AlexPoops
10:42:57Zagorhaha
10:43:03*AlexP quickly deletes it
10:44:08AlexP1 view only :)
10:44:15AlexPHow long should I leave for the sync?
10:44:18rasherAlready does on one mirror it seems
10:44:41Zagorrasher: yes. it's a bit tricky to check both mirrors. curl -H to the rescue!
10:45:33Zagor88.191.250.9 is updated, 80.87.134.17 is not yet
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10:51:35MHaelCan someone please give me write access for the wiki?
10:51:58ZagorMHael: what is your wiki name?
10:51:59AlexPWhat is your wiki name?
10:52:05MHaelMhAel
10:52:13Zagorthen change it
10:52:14AlexPThat doesn't sound like a real name
10:53:33MHaelIt's not my real name, but I prefer to remain anonymous.
10:53:40AlexPThen no wiki access for you
10:53:44MHaelI'm trying to add myself to this list: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/RockboxTesting
10:53:49AlexPRockbox requires the use of real names
10:53:58MHaelI've an Ipod Nano 1st Gen 4GB
10:54:03AlexPZagor: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/System/UserRegistration should probably have a big real name note
10:54:28ZagorAlexP: right, that wasn't copied from twiki properly
10:54:29MHaelI doubt it makes any difference, but there's no one else on the list with one.
10:55:06ZagorMHael: yes there are. look at what the nicks link to. their real names.
10:55:23MHaelI don't mean real names, I mean my player
10:55:39Zagorah :-)
10:56:27rasherI think that list is only used, if ever, for the more exotic targets
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10:59:16MHaelOk, doesn't matter then. I won't worry about it. I'll just test if I see something in the forums.
10:59:27MHaelThanks anyway.
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11:00
11:00:23*n1s wonders about "more intelligent sorting algorithm"
11:00:58rasherplease...
11:03:27n1si jsut dislike these weird qualifications such as "natural" or "intelligent". I'm perfectly fine with "New alternative default sorting algorithm, which is number-aware"
11:04:05AlexPn1s: I agree
11:04:12AlexPn1s: It should just be alternative
11:04:38AlexPn1s: I'd change it to what you just said
11:04:45n1sit is default now, isn't it?
11:04:56AlexPnot sure
11:05:10AlexPYou could leave out default
11:05:19n1sAlexP: that is from the "wat's new" section, the "intelligent" quote is from the top of the page
11:05:47AlexPthen change more intelligent to alternative at the top
11:05:51AlexPis what I'd do
11:06:10*n1s won't toutch it
11:06:17n1stouch*
11:06:18*AlexP will
11:06:50AlexPthere :)
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11:26:32pyro_maniacBadger: is there a reason for http://download.rockbox.org/bootloader/samsung/yh920/ to be empty?
11:27:42Zagorpyro_maniac: a mistake. fixing now.
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11:30:35pyro_maniacok so i can fix the wiki later
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11:40:26rasherBoth mirrors updated now
11:56:19AlexPRight then
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11:56:24Topic"Rockbox 3.4 has been released! | Please read before speaking: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/IrcGuidelines | Please direct offtopic/social chat to #rockbox-community" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
12:00
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12:11:24rasherNothing on the lists - should I send one?
12:11:48AlexPgood plan
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12:39:03Zagor80.87.134.17 isn't updating
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12:52:03funmanthere is a rockbox-samsungyh820-3.4.zip in 3.4 download folder
12:52:23Zagoroops
12:52:46Zagormoved
12:52:56funmanthanks!
13:00
13:07:10rasherAlexP: You might want to adjust the announcement post - the "If you prefer getting the zip files "manually", go here." link goes to the page which mostly links to rbutil
13:07:45AlexPrasher: OK (I copied funman's 3.3 post :) ) - where would be better?
13:08:42AlexPhttp://www.rockbox.org/download/byhand.cgi here I guess
13:08:58rasherI just shortened my post and only linked to http://www.rockbox.org/download/
13:10:04ZagorI think that is better. a single link for all users.
13:10:52AlexPOK
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13:21:48dionoeahum, encoding of the credits on http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/ReleaseNotes34 looks completely wrong
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13:28:13Zagornow both mirrors of download.rockbox.org are finally synced
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14:41:55Zagorumm, did anyone verify that rbutil finds the release? I don't have a player with me so I can't do it.
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14:52:06Bob_Chi everyom
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14:53:22Bob_CHi cas
14:53:29Casainhohello bob :-)
14:53:46Casainholet's ask that question ;-)
14:53:55CasainhoBob_C: you start :-)
14:54:31Bob_Cok, we are creating a new port for the Lyre "Prototype ", we want to know where our code should go in the source tree
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14:55:27Bob_CThe wiki suggests firmware/target/<cpu>/<manufacturer>/<model>/ so logically our code would go in firmware/target/arm/lyre/proto2. Is that the right place?
14:55:30AlexPZagor: It does indeed
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14:56:07TorneBob_C: if the code is entirely specific to your hardware, then yes
14:56:13Tornesounds reasonable
14:56:15ZagorAlexP: thanks
14:57:10Casainhowell, I started by put the code her, instead: firmware/target/arm/s3c2440/lyre_proto2
14:57:34Casainhobecause last prototype where in: firmware/target/arm/at91sam/lyre_proto1
14:57:34Tornethat's also reasonable if it's that SoC
14:57:40Bob_CThe reason we ask is that the startup code (crt0) needs to be specific to our hardware
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14:58:06Torneit does?
14:58:12Bob_CBut the target S3C2440 makes assumptions about the SOC and the board layout
14:58:12Torneyou can't use teh s3c2440 crt?
14:58:31TorneWell, er, that is a SoC, no?
14:58:40Torneif it makes assumptions about particular boards, though, then you could ifdef them
14:58:41Bob_CWell, no, our memory timings are different for a start
14:58:44Torneif it's a few places
14:58:58Tornememory timings aren't part of the SoC, though..
14:59:15Bob_CThey are set in crt0
14:59:16Torneyou mean it assumes that it's hooked up to the gigabeat f/x's ram parts
14:59:18TorneYeah
14:59:24TorneSo, define/ifdef them?
14:59:38Torneif the rest of the code is the same but just a few parts are different, silly to duplicate it
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14:59:54Bob_CTorne: exactly
15:00
15:00:02Torneexactly what?
15:00:20Torneanyway, yah. if your hardware is basec on the same soc, put it in a subdirectory of that soc
15:00:23*Casainho Casainho is listening to try learn/understand
15:00:27Bob_CI mean its' specific to Gigabeat RAM etc
15:00:47Torneyah. so, that should be fixed, ideally, no? good opportunity for you :)
15:01:03Bob_COk, but that doesn't match the firmware/manufacturer/model layout does it?
15:01:12Tornethere may be other players based on that soc one day, if you've already done the work to factor out which bits are gigabeat specific then that's better for everyone ;)
15:01:32TorneNo, it doesn't
15:01:38Tornebut loads of other players also don't follow that scheme
15:01:48Torneit's useful to have a scheme that's based on similarity of hardware
15:01:51Tornenot manufacturer
15:01:58Tornewhen the same hardware is used by more than one manufacturer.
15:02:17Bob_CSure, so is the Wiki not entirely correct?
15:02:25TorneThe wiki is mking a suggestion
15:02:43Torneif there's a good reason to pick something else that's fine
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15:04:43Bob_CIf it was me, I might have a common file for the SOC, and then a target specific include for memory timings and stuff
15:05:04Torneif just some values need to be different, and the same code runs, then that's a good idea, yes
15:05:08Tornedo that :)
15:05:16Bob_COtherwise the code accumulates ifdefs until it becomes untenable
15:05:25Torneyes. it dpeends what the differences are.
15:05:35Torneif it's the same sequence to initialise the SDRAM but with different parameters then just #define them
15:05:44Tornebut not all differences are that simple
15:06:48Bob_CI think the Gigabeat is the only other port to that SoC currently
15:06:59Torneyes
15:07:28Torneso move any timing parameters that are specific to the gigabeat into a header in the gigabeat's directory, and make an equivalent one for your platform
15:07:46Bob_CSo now might be a good time to rationalise it. I just fear breaking the Gigabeat build!
15:07:59TorneWell, test it then
15:08:09Tornemake the changes you need, check it still compiles
15:08:14Tornetest if it you have access to such a player
15:08:27Tornepost a patch on fs that just changes that, if you want someone else to test it
15:08:29Bob_CSure, I can build it but have no player
15:08:38Torne(the patch to move that stuff could go in even without your actual port, yes?)
15:08:48Bob_CSure that is a good idea
15:09:20Tornei doubt anyone will object to patches which more cleanly seperate target specific from non target specific stuff
15:09:54Bob_CThat's good, my boss would say the opposite :)
15:11:03Bob_COk, we will proceed on those lines then
15:11:19TorneOSS has the advantage of not reall having deadlines. Makes it easier to accomodate changes which clean stuff up but don't provide immediate benefits :)
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15:12:01Bob_CI just learnt not to ask my boss ;)
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15:13:06Bob_CCas: are you happy with that?
15:16:19CasainhoBob_C: yes, I am. So, can you please take care of that changes?
15:18:46Bob_COk, I will. thanks Torne for your help
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15:21:41Casainhobye bye
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15:23:40Bob_Cbye all, have fun
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16:11:40gevaerts_Zagor: the character encoding on the release notes wiki page seems to be wrong
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16:12:45Zagoryeah. the site is still iso 8859-1 while the CREDITS file is utf8.
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16:16:56gevaerts_ok, so it basically was a not-careful-enough edit, not a misconfiguration of the wiki
16:17:06Zagoryes
16:19:02*rasher quietly demands utf8
16:20:05ZagorI don't remember why we're still on iso. there was a reson.
16:21:34funmanlaziness to convert the webpages or something else ?
16:22:05funmanI think a very big majority of browsers do support UTF8
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16:23:44Zagorfunman: some technical reason. I don't remember what.
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16:24:27Zagorhowever since the vast majority of the site is english the conversion ought to be pretty quick
16:27:34gevaerts_fixed
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16:30:22notlisteningHi is there an easy way to tell what class micro SD i am using?
16:30:39notlisteningin my Sansa e200v2
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16:32:34tonyb486Is there a vorbis encoding codec for rockbox?
16:33:54Zagortonyb486: no
16:34:11tonyb486Okay, thanks.
16:34:24***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:34:24Zagorrecord in a lossless format and convert on your pc
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16:48:04notlisteningI found a way ;)
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17:58:34JdGordondoes anyone else think adding some tokens to allow skins to have translated strings in them would be good?
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18:08:10gevaertsJdGordon: I think it can be a good idea, depending on how you actually get the translations
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18:08:48JdGordonfrom the lang file...
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18:09:40JdGordonsomething like %XX|artist| would get the current languages translated artist string (assuming there is one already)
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18:10:05JdGordonI noticed that the current radio screen has some strings whcih might be useful to be able to be displayed, and annoying for those that dont like english...
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18:12:06gevaertsok. So we'd have a set of always-provided strings? Maybe you could add some sort of in-wps mechanism to add exotic strings. Not sure if that's really needed though
18:14:17JdGordonwell, all strings are always there, they just are not always translated
18:14:30JdGordonI dont even know how useful this would be
18:14:38JdGordonit just seems like something we should be doing
18:14:49gevaertsI think we should, yes
18:16:01gevaertsWhat I meant was that if a wps uses a non-langfile string, it could provide its own translations (for a limited set of languages I guess)
18:19:00JdGordonwell, the reason to do it would be so anyone could drop a theme on the DAP and it would just work in their language... adding extra strings would mean they'd have to go an edit something else also, so they may as well just edit the .wps
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18:21:02gevaertsyes and no. It would only be needed if the wps actually uses non-standard strings, and if the wps author didn't provide translation strings for those
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18:23:14gevaertsbut again, if we provide a decent set of standard strings, I'd assume 90% of WPSes not to need that
18:23:54JdGordonquick look at the themes site suggests we'd need "album, artist, song, now playing, track, of, disk, next"
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18:40:15kugelJdGordon: most of these are already translated for the id3 viewer
18:40:21kugelbut yea I like that idea
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18:48:28JdGordon|"The database has also received a significant update on the coding level. " it did?
18:49:31kugelmy original text was different
18:52:25bertrikJdGordon, some fixes were done on the database around the time of devcon euro (end of june)
18:53:38kugelI also thought the pitch bug was only clipv2/fuzev2, are they already out for 2 years?
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18:58:58bertrikregarding FS #10613 (wrong battery runtime on iPod 3G), it seems a bit weird to close it as "invalid"
19:00
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19:02:20bertrikIn my opinion, if battery runtime is not implemented for a specific target, we should not show a bogus value. It would be better to show nothing at all (or maybe just 0)
19:03:00gevaertsrobin0800: the forum rules are not meant as a joke
19:07:10CIA-43New commit by 03bluebrother (r22820): Add non-interactive mode to beastpatcher. ...
19:07:40robin0800gevaerts: remove post then
19:10:03mcuelenaerebertrik: doesn't that trigger automatic powerdown?
19:10:24*mcuelenaere had that when showing invalid values in the initial VX747 stage
19:10:32bertrikI don't know, does it
19:10:36JdGordon|_yeah probbaly
19:10:52JdGordon|_either way... I tihnk a rediculous value is just as understood as 0
19:11:07bertrikJdGordon, no people submit bugs about it
19:11:21bertrik(add a comma after 'no')
19:12:08JdGordon|_hmm... then maybe we need to add a value which is "unknown" and then display that instead
19:12:11bertrikI thought that powerdown was triggered by low battery level, not low remaining runtime, maybe I'm wrong
19:12:14JdGordon|_0 is just as good/bad an some large value
19:12:26JdGordon|_arnt they linked?
19:12:37mcuelenaerebertrik: oh, then I misunderstood you
19:12:47*mcuelenaere meant low battery level
19:13:43bertrikThe point I want to make is that displaying some random runtime value is bad if it's not implemented at all
19:13:59gevaertsrobin0800: I did, but that doesn't change the fact that it shouldn't have been there in the first place
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19:15:14bertrikdoes anyone know how many targets actually do properly implement it?
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19:33:01pixelmaJdGordon: %T is for some touch screen area thing. I don't see a big problem in the use of single t or T and t+something - we also have %C for album art and all those %c+something for the RTC tags
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19:35:56pixelmaI mean the fact that they will be used for different things, you will probably have to look them up anyways and then it's good if they are grouped and if there is some logic
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20:11:45amiconnJdGordon: Regarding the pretranslated strings - couldn't these just be plain two-letter tags? Preferably using a common first letter
20:11:55AlexPipod usb is disabled for the release as we don't do proper charging right?
20:12:40JdGordon|amiconn: we could do that, but its not very nice... its not obvious what %Xn does, or %Xt.. whereas %X|next| is obvious
20:12:48JdGordon|also the code to do it is alot more
20:12:55amiconnHmm?
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20:13:02JdGordon|actually, ignore that 2nd bit
20:13:05amiconnI think using plain tags is easier
20:13:14amiconn...and less code
20:13:41amiconnWe're already handling this kind of tags, whereas for your idea you would need to parse a string argument
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20:14:08JdGordon|yes but each one would need to be handled seperatly
20:14:50amiconnYou'd also need a table storing the relation between your argument string and the lang id
20:15:14JdGordon|yes, but only one extra case in the get_token_value() switch
20:16:19amiconn?
20:17:05kugelcould we make it with a modifier? if %ia is artist, then %§ia could be the correspinding lang string?
20:17:11kugelas with conditionals
20:17:29JdGordon|how about a charachter that is on standard ascii keyboards?
20:17:32kugelthe § was an example
20:17:55*JdGordon| likes that idea though
20:20:14*gevaerts proposes to use the ☺ character
20:20:16amiconnSeems to make sense.
20:20:45amiconnAre there should-be-localised strings which have no tag equivalent?
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20:21:24gevaertsprobably things like "of" or "next"
20:21:50JdGordon|I'm not sure we need to add "of"
20:22:02JdGordon|next could be problmeatic.. and "Now Playing"
20:22:14JdGordon|although that one is usually part of the background image anyway
20:22:47gevaertsMaybe we could have checkwps output a list of all used strings, so we can easily check what's actually used on the theme site
20:22:50kugel"next" would be part of each next track related tag I assume
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20:23:20JdGordon|they mostly use "Next: blaa - blaa" sort of thing.. not "Next track:"
20:24:34kugelI guess we could have a few extra strings with %§<some special tag>|string|
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20:24:49kugelbut that would make it two-way'ish again, not sure if that's good
20:25:10JdGordon|that doesnt sound good... it shuold be consistant
20:26:15*gevaerts votes for %§<numeric string id> and quickly runs away
20:26:55kugelnumeric ids won't work
20:27:03*JdGordon| isnt entirely convinced this is all needed anyway
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20:28:24kugelif the fm screen is going to be skin'ified, it would be a loss (for many people) since the current one is localized
20:29:34*kugel thinks skins should get some localization, that's one of the core rockbox features
20:29:58JdGordon|%X|string| is the most flexible I tihnk
20:30:14JdGordon|and I tihnk more readable...
20:30:52JdGordon|%?Ia<%Ia%Ia|%Fa>
20:31:45gevaertsJdGordon|: doesn't that basically imply keeping english.lng in memory though?
20:31:54JdGordon|no
20:32:09kugelno, the lookup table would have a string->lang id connection
20:32:10JdGordon|the mapping would be known keywords like the region...
20:32:27JdGordon|english.lng *is* kept in memory though anyway
20:32:50kugelare you sure?
20:33:01JdGordon|yes
20:33:13JdGordon|well.. its built into the rockbox binary
20:33:31gevaertsprobably not sorted in any useful way though, so lookup will be slowish
20:33:38JdGordon|yes
20:33:45JdGordon|but that lookup would only happen once
20:33:55kugelat parsing time
20:34:16kugelit won't make a difference unless you choose to use some 100 strings
20:34:17domonokyas you only can use strings already in rockbox, ids wouldnt be too bad.
20:34:24JdGordon|of course keeping the smaller keyword->id mapping would be probably better anyway
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20:34:42gevaertshm, there will be some unrelated impact, like wpses that don't fit in skin memory if certain languages are selected
20:34:52JdGordon|nope
20:35:02JdGordon|the Id would be stored.. not the string
20:35:12gevaertsah ok
20:35:26domonokyyou already have to know which string would be translatable and in rockbox, so we also could provide a list of availables lang-ids and their mapping.
20:35:39gevaertsin that case I don't think I see a problem except for the possibly slower loading
20:35:47kugelin fact, we have such a string->id mapping already, with touchregions
20:36:04JdGordon|yes, but we dont want to mix them
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20:36:06gevaertsdomonoky: string ids change. Slowly, but they do
20:36:12kugeldomonoky: why that?
20:36:22kkurbjunis there a way to get viewcv to show all the commits of a particular author?
20:36:23domonokygevaerts: strings in rockbox too.
20:36:44JdGordon|this is where c# kicks ass... you can get the string name of an enum to easily get its real value
20:37:06domonokyand didnt we want to change the lang system to keep the ids always the same ? (to prevent breaking voices etc)
20:37:30kugelit's a pitty that this isn't even available with a compiler extension
20:38:10amiconndomonoky: Yes. The problem is how to do this efficiently
20:38:40kugelI don't think it's urgent to make it effecient. It only impacts the parsing time (if at all)
20:39:03robin__here http://download.rockbox.org/bootloader/sandisk-sansa/ I can enter 6.0/ over and over again and nothing but the URL changes
20:39:16robin__seems strange to me
20:39:16mcuelenaerekkurbjun: ohloh might be able to do that
20:39:44JdGordon|I'd rather talk about how to present this to the user than how to actually make it work....
20:40:05gevaertsrobin__: that's because 6.0 is the current version, so you end up in a symlink loop
20:40:15kugelJdGordon|: but that's the less interesting part :)
20:40:35JdGordon|its the more important part :D
20:40:36kkurbjunmcuelenaere: thanks, I'll take a look at that
20:40:41kugelI'd still prefer %§ia, but I see that it makes problems with non-tag strings
20:40:44robin__gevaerts: thank you for the info
20:41:09domonokyJdGordon|: regardless how we present it to the user, we have still the problem, that the user somehow needs to know which words are in english.lang..
20:41:16JdGordon|yes
20:41:33 Join howell [0] (n=howell@utdpat242007.utdallas.edu)
20:41:40JdGordon|although umm...
20:41:49kugelI think we would only expose a few strings, documented and garuanteed to be translateable?
20:41:54amiconnkugel: Depending on how many of these exist, we could add them as "tags" with no value
20:41:55JdGordon|we could easily add a script to dump english.lang to a txt file in the wps folder
20:42:38JdGordon|I like the idea of adding the whole english.lang file... no need to add more arbitrary constraints
20:42:43kugelor the whole .lang. that will make a huge table where only like 20 strings are ever used
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20:43:02amiconnJdGordon: It should be kept simple, not made unnecessarily complex. Also, it should preferably work without any .lng file present
20:43:18 Quit stripwax_ (Client Quit)
20:43:28amiconn(returning the english string, which is built into the binary already)
20:43:42gevaertsone problem with exporting english.lang is that lots of strings have no clear meaning without context
20:44:02JdGordon|amiconn: the way I would do it is have it find the ID of the given string, and then return ID2STR(id) so you could change langs without having to do anything
20:44:02kugel98% are be totally useless for skinning
20:44:21gevaertskugel: you don't want "safe to disconnect" on a wps?
20:44:44JdGordon|I want the german for that! its bound to be good :D
20:44:44kugela) I didn't say that b) the wps isn't active while usb
20:44:51pixelmagevaerts: does that string already exist?
20:45:04gevaertspixelma: uh, no actually :)
20:45:21pixelmain Rockbox of course ;)
20:48:42JdGordon|so here is the question... do we want simple tiny code and open up the whole lang? or slightly more bloated code and limit it to the dozen that would actually be used?
20:49:12kugelthe former probably means a huge ramsize hit too
20:49:20JdGordon|no it doesnt...
20:49:23JdGordon|not at all
20:49:44kugelhow are you going to do the string->id thing?
20:49:57JdGordon|english.lng is kept in ram anyway
20:50:40JdGordon|its just a matter of doing *lots* of strcmp()'s
20:51:00kugelthe lookup table will be big
20:51:10JdGordon|there is no lookup table!
20:51:18kugelhow then?
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20:51:42gevaertswell, there is one, but it already exists
20:51:54kugelyou want to strcmp with the actual string value (i.e. without lang ids)?
20:52:04JdGordon|yes
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20:52:22JdGordon|5 lines of code
20:52:24kugelthat's bad
20:52:27JdGordon|yes
20:52:40kugeltranslating rockbox will break wpses regularly
20:52:57JdGordon|no
20:53:05JdGordon|changing english strings will
20:53:15JdGordon|which doesnt happen in practice
20:53:30kugelI think there's a patch which changes just about every string :p
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20:54:47kugelthe title to sentence case one. I wonder why that's still rotting
20:55:21*JdGordon| gets fed up with the forum users...
20:55:41JdGordon|can someone write an email to the users/dev ml's asking which how theyd like this done?
20:57:25kugelI think iterating through the whole lang with strcmp is potentially really slow even for happening at parsing time
21:00
21:00:02 Join nullified [0] (n=nullifie@ppp-70-242-129-64.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net)
21:02:03_ABCHi all! I'd like to learn about how rockbox is interfaced to different hardware and how it replaces the bootloader. I am thinking of contributing to provide other hardware ports.
21:02:37markun_ABC: I don't know where to start :)
21:03:05markundid you download the rockbox source?
21:03:14_ABCmarkun: Not yet.
21:04:07markunthere is a lot of info here: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/DocsIndex#For_Developers
21:04:39_ABCmarkun: Ok. I have a supported mp3 that I can learn from, then start getting my hands on other devices.
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21:05:17NoireAilesHello
21:05:50mcuelenaere_ABC: what hardware are you looking at?
21:06:04 Quit stripwax (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:06:23markunhi NoireAiles
21:06:27_ABCmcuelenaere: Currently I have a supported Sansa. I am willing to learn and contribute :)
21:06:37nullifiedUsing linux on Sansa E250R. Using e200rpather, it says "[INFO] Patching application uploaded successfully!" Is this the same thing as "Firmware unlocked, proceed to step 2" ?
21:07:06mcuelenaere_ABC: I meant the "other" hardware :)
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21:07:43_ABCmcuelenaere: In that case, no.
21:08:01mcuelenaereno?
21:08:18_ABCnope :)
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21:08:38markunI assume he means he has no idea what other hardware to work on yet :)
21:08:42 Quit robin0800 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:09:00_ABCmcuelenaere: What do you mean?
21:09:09 Quit Omlet05 (Client Quit)
21:09:12mcuelenaereah ok
21:09:18_ABCmcuelenaere: computer?
21:09:22*mcuelenaere thought you already had some hardware in mind
21:09:31_ABCoh
21:09:39pilot000Hi, I sell my iriver H140 over ricardo.ch i a potential buyer will have the original fw on it. but i don't have a original ihp_120.hex. could someone help me ?
21:10:48markunnullified: are you in the right channel? this is about running rockbox, not linux (or maybe I'm missing something)
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21:11:33gevaertsmarkun: I think you are missing something :)
21:11:48nullifiedmarkun I am having problems installing via linux and was not sure if this channel was for install problems.
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21:13:04markunpilot000: rasher.dk/rockbox/iriver-firmwares/">http://rasher.dk/rockbox/iriver-firmwares/
21:13:41markungevaerts: yes, I missed the "via" :)
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21:14:20nullifiedI am wondering if the e200rpatcher program was updated and the "Patching application uploaded successfully!" was the new version of "Firmware unlocked, proceed to step 2"
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21:15:10pilot000markun, thx a lot
21:15:19markunyou're welcome
21:15:33_ABCmcuelenaere: Say, that the Sansa hardware wasn't supported. I'd like to get my hands on the process of supporing it. (and yes, I have read the wiki about supporting new hardware)
21:16:03mcuelenaere_ABC: well, the "new" Sansa hardware (== AMS) isn't supported
21:17:31mcuelenaerebut I did understand your request, I just thought you already had some DAP in mind for your possible porting :)
21:17:47_ABCokay
21:18:51_ABCI mean, I have experience in AVR microcontrollers as well as PCBs, etc. But not much experience in doing things like this, which I would like to learn and also contribute.
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21:20:16amiconnJdGordon: There is no lookup table for englishlng kept in memory when another .lng is loaded
21:20:38 Quit pilot000 ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
21:21:31amiconnThe lookup table is always built dynamically, even for the built-in english strings. They're just a sequence of \0 separated strings which are scanned using strlen() at boot
21:22:08amiconnSee language.c: lang_init()
21:22:15_ABCmcuelenaere: ^^^
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21:23:17mcuelenaere_ABC: sounds good, still these kinds of things require a lot of time and dedication
21:23:23mcuelenaerekind*
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21:24:27_ABCmcuelenaere: That's no problem :) I enjoy challenges and doing things like this
21:25:26markun_ABC: can you program in C?
21:26:00mcuelenaere_ABC: then get yourself an unsupported/new target and off you go ;)
21:26:05_ABCmarkun: I have done embedded/AVR C and also Java. So it should be no problem to pickup
21:26:46*funman can suggest a target for people interested in reverse engineering
21:26:47_ABCmcuelenaere: Problem is, I have no knowledge of USB sniffing and getting deep with hardware, etc
21:27:00_ABCfunman: Yes?
21:27:01mcuelenaere_ABC: neither did I, when I first started here
21:27:20mcuelenaere_ABC: and with a bit of careful looking, you can avoid part of that
21:27:38funman_ABC: Sansa Clipv2/Clip+/Fuzev2 already have basic code, and need reverse engineering of the Original Firmware to get access to storage
21:27:50 Quit howell (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:27:55_ABCmcuelenaere: How?
21:28:09funmanby picking up a target with a known firmware upgrade process
21:28:32mcuelenaere_ABC: you could look for DAP's that already have some info online or that have datasheets available or that use an already documented USB transfer method etc.
21:28:44_ABCfunman: Hm, sounds fun, but honestly I still have alot to learn about reverse engineering and hardware access
21:29:14 Quit pilot000 ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
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21:29:37_ABCmcuelenaere: That's why I wanted to experiement on my supported Sansa :)
21:29:50funman_ABC: the first step is to pick up a target, and then start at the beginning if no work has been done, or continue were the other people are
21:30:32funmanhave you read http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/NewPort ?
21:30:37_ABCYes.
21:31:04funmanI would think that on a supported target there is not much work to do
21:31:14funman(on a hardware side)
21:31:39_ABCfunman: Well I mean from scratch, as if it was not supported.
21:32:01funmanI would be too tempted to look at the existing source code ;)
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21:32:28_ABChaha
21:33:17NoireAileshey guys
21:33:46funmanI can comment on the targets I know: the newer Sansa AMS are similar to the unstable ones (Fuzev1/e200v2) but different enough to require some amount of work
21:33:51*domonoky thinks that at least the "unstable" target also could need hardware help. for example we still dont have recording on AMS Sansas.
21:33:58NoireAilesI'm having issues on getting the font package from rockbox.org
21:35:21_ABCHm, when doing hardware reverse engineering, do you think jtag is essential?
21:35:23funmanNoireAiles: from a webpage or from the rockbox utility ?
21:35:37funman_ABC: it can be helpful but it is not essential
21:35:50domonokyhm, the font package vanished from the download server :-/
21:36:02NoireAilesfrom both, unfortunately
21:36:14_ABCfunman: ah okay. I might build one sometime.
21:36:22NoireAilesIt's been down for a few days now, but I figured i'd just wait to see if it would be put back up
21:36:24domonoky_ABC: on most targets we dont have jtag, but we were still able to port rockbox to them :-)
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21:36:45NoireAilesDidn't want to be a douche and not give the webmasters / developers time to fix it.
21:37:31NoireAilesOn that note, if I did want to install fonts, could I simply take the desired font and drag and drop it?
21:37:49_ABCdomonoky: just by USB sniffing?
21:37:51 Quit linuxstb (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
21:38:27funman_ABC: USB sniffing can useful for finding the firmware upgrade process, but isn't necessary either
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21:39:02_ABCfunman: then what is necessary?
21:39:20 Quit GeekShadow (Connection reset by peer)
21:39:33funmanfinding documentations for the main chipset, disassemble the original firmware to understand hardware
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21:39:57_ABCI see
21:40:05funmanfirst step is having your code run on the target, second step is having correct code running
21:40:14 Quit kugel (Remote closed the connection)
21:40:36_ABCfunman: How do you get the original firmware?
21:41:00funmanusually from the vendor, if it's not already present on the device as a file
21:42:00 Join domonoky1 [0] (n=Domonoky@g229150046.adsl.alicedsl.de)
21:42:20_ABCand if the vender does not provide the firmware, the only way is to use jtag?
21:42:48funmanit's your job to find it ;)
21:43:37domonoky1_ABC: if the vendor doesnt provide firmware updates, it gets very difficult to find out how to run our own code. normally the firmware upgrade mechanism is the way rockbox gets into the target.. :-)
21:44:00_ABCahh I see
21:44:19funmansome targets use exploits in the original firmware to get code running (ipod nano2g, an iriver)
21:44:41_ABCmhm
21:44:51 Quit domonoky (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:46:34_ABCwell, gotta get working. Thanks guys!
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22:03:13JdGordon|amiconn: yes, but with a bit of trickery it shuold be easy enough to get to the english strings... admitadly I havnt looked at that for ages though
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22:34:30***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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22:43:22Bob_CHello, how does the lang.h file get generated?
22:45:00Bagderby genlang
22:45:17Bagdertools/genlang
22:46:06 Part Bob_C
22:46:21CIA-43New commit by 03bluebrother (r22821): Make beastpatcher build with VS2005 again.
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22:49:08linuxstbbluebroth3r: Did you say you wanted to move mkmkboot.c to somewhere under rbutil/ ?
22:49:56 Quit robin__ ("Verlassend")
22:51:00linuxstbbluebroth3r: If so, I don't see a problem. Just remember to remove the reference to it from tools/configure
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22:59:21BdN3504can i checkout 3.4 like this? svn co svn://svn.rockbox.org/rockbox/branches/v3_4 rockbox
23:00
23:02:22rasherYes
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23:06:00Rand_Althorwould including a 'seconds' (as in time of day) counter in a WPS make a big difference in battery life? (assuming the LCD is mostly off)
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23:09:31kugelnope
23:11:17Rand_Althorthank you
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23:11:47 Nick fxb__ is now known as fxb (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net)
23:13:55bluebroth3rlinuxstb: yes, I was considering moving it to the beastpatcher folder. Plus, I was considering moving the beastpatcher folder afterwards below rbutil/
23:16:21 Quit evilnick (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
23:18:04*ej0rge finds it a little odd that the beast doesn't get to be listed as an 'unstable' target
23:18:38ej0rgeis it just because of the installer issues?
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23:19:15*bluebroth3r has a rather strange bug right now: beastpatcher built as debug works as expected, built as release binary doesn't. Hmm.
23:21:49linuxstbbluebroth3r: The problem with moving beastpatcher is that the more generic "sendfirm" also requires the same libMTP (IIRC). Although maybe just create a rbutil/MTP/ directory?
23:22:29bluebroth3rlinuxstb: yeah, that's the solution I'd had used :)
23:22:37*linuxstb wonders if there will be anything left in utils/ or if rbutil will assimilate everything...
23:23:25 Quit GeekShadow (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
23:23:34bluebroth3rthere's quite a bit left −− like the arm disassembler or tcctool
23:23:43bluebroth3rat least right now. Assimilating takes time :)
23:23:45linuxstbbluebroth3r: Does rbutil still not use the ipod memory detection?
23:24:08kugelbloat-o-meter too
23:24:32bluebroth3rno. I didn't found time to add it before 1.2.3 got quickly released :(
23:24:37*linuxstb doesn't mind, as long as the command-line utils are also available
23:24:53bluebroth3rwas thinking to work on that in the near future
23:25:01gevaertslinuxstb: think of it this way : the more rbutil assimilates, the more code bluebroth3r and domonoky1 are responsible for
23:25:07*bluebroth3r also wants to keep the command line tools
23:25:26bluebroth3rgevaerts: you really think I feel responsible for that code? :P
23:25:26linuxstbgevaerts: You're very wise...
23:25:31*bluebroth3r hides
23:25:44gevaertsbluebroth3r: I said "are", not "feel" :)
23:25:58*bluebroth3r hides even more
23:26:10 Nick bluebroth3r is now known as bluebrother (n=dom@rockbox/developer/bluebrother)
23:26:37*linuxstb types svn mv apps firmware tools manual uisimulator bootloader rbutil/
23:26:53bluebrotherOMG!
23:27:01*gevaerts tries to make linuxstb type ^C
23:27:31*bluebrother starts writing his quitting letter
23:27:56bluebrotherwhy on earth does stat() fail on the release binary but not on the debug one?
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23:36:47bluebrotherlinuxstb: what happens if I try to read the Ipod XML on old Ipods?
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23:42:43linuxstbbluebrother: If it fails for whatever reason, RAM will be set to 0 IIRC.
23:42:58bluebrotherok, that's fine.
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23:43:04linuxstbbluebrother: One problem will be when the Rockbox USB stack is being used - it currently doesn't implement the XML...
23:43:45linuxstbAlthough that could probably be implemented relatively easily (gevaerts ?)
23:44:08*linuxstb expects the code already exists for the "sansa pretending to be an ipod" game
23:44:11gevaertslinuxstb: see FS#whateveritwas for a quick and dirty imlementation :)
23:44:40linuxstb404
23:44:53gevaertsFS #10023
23:45:16*bluebrother would like to see automatic RAM detection in Rockbox :)
23:45:41*bertrik is going to commit FS #9824
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23:46:54*bluebrother wonders if it makes more sense to "overwrite" the modelname in ipodpatcher or to check in rbutil
23:46:55 Quit neoarch| ("Leaving")
23:47:20linuxstbbluebrother: What does rbutil do differently? USB IDs?
23:48:39bluebrotherlinuxstb: the current autodetection simply relies on the modelname reported by ipodpatcher.
23:49:17bluebrotherthus reporting ipodvideo64mb in ipodpatcher would make rbutil immediately work. Though that extends the BuildNames mess even more ...
23:50:34*linuxstb can't recall what (if anything) modelname is used for in ipodpatcher
23:51:09linuxstbAh, that's the four-char code - used for the ".ipod" header.
23:51:32linuxstbYou mean targetname?
23:52:09bluebrothersorry, meant targetname. Modelname isn't used by rbutil, and AFAICS targetname isn't really used in ipodpatcher
23:52:28linuxstbYes, grep is telling me ipodpatcher just sets it, and nothng else.
23:52:43linuxstbI'm assuming you added that?
23:53:47*bluebrother can't remember doing that and blames domonoky1 :)
23:54:15linuxstbSeems I committed it - r12264 "based on part of FS #6643 from Dominik Wenger"
23:54:50linuxstbbluebrother: Ah, but won't that break bootloader installs, as that is the same for both videos?
23:55:12linuxstb(unless we just cp the bootloader to create a bootloader-ipodvideo64mb.ipod file)
23:56:01bluebrotheranyway, if it's only used by rbutil adjusting the targetname in ipodpatcher is at least the easiest way to go. Autodetection really needs to get reworked, maybe I'll find some time tomorrow to think about that. Train trips can be good for stuff like that.
23:56:33 Quit explore ("leaving")
23:56:46bluebrotherlinuxstb: the bootloader filename is set in rbutil.ini and not derived from the targetname (anymore) so that won't break it.
23:57:18linuxstbOK, well I'll leave it to you. MrSomeone also needs to implement the SCSI stuff on a Mac...

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