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#rockbox log for 2009-09-29

00:04:12 Join polobricolo_ [0] (n=paul@90.27.149.251)
00:07:45 Join KBH [0] (n=hbk@rrcs-97-77-51-170.sw.biz.rr.com)
00:17:16 Part domonoky
00:17:26 Quit polobricolo (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:24:35 Quit HBK (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:30:26 Nick fxb__ is now known as fxb (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net)
00:31:45 Quit flydutch ("/* empty */")
00:33:42 Quit robin0800 (Remote closed the connection)
00:34:38saratogathe ac3 FFT does look virtually identical to the ffmpeg one
00:36:28***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:38:27saratogaas far as I can tell the differences are:
00:38:41saratoga1) ifft8 is fully unrolled in the ffmpeg code
00:39:04 Join BlackWidow79 [0] (n=ansarali@94-169-191-240.cable.ubr06.craw.blueyonder.co.uk)
00:39:42 Quit BlackWidow79 (Client Quit)
00:39:45saratoga2) ifft8 exploits an additional symmetry in the AC3 case
00:39:49 Quit shotofadds ("Leaving")
00:39:55saratoga3) ffmpeg implements larger sizes
00:40:01saratogaotherwise they're identical
00:40:10saratogaeven the function names are the same
00:40:12*Strife89 updates his graphics driver.
00:40:22Strife89Whoops, wrong channel.
00:42:35 Quit mcuelenaere ()
00:44:42DerPapstmarek_: http://217.70.142.139/rockbox/beast_nk.bin
00:45:01DerPapstjust compiled, not tested :P
00:45:24 Quit KBH (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
00:48:26 Quit tegguN ("Leaving")
00:48:50saratogaso basically the AC3 FFT saves 4 muls every call to IFFT8
00:49:01Strife89Bah. Vista thinks my disk needs to be checked on boot, and when it reaches an "index entry from index $0 of file 25", it just spews that line endlessly. What's going on?
00:49:29Strife89Argh, wrong channel again.
00:51:02 Quit ender (" 'And you have to shout -' He tried to remember some far-off reading. '- er, bonsai. Yes. Bonsai!' -- Terry Pratchett: Reape")
00:56:31 Quit matsl (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:00
01:00:43stripwaxsaratoga - so how many muls is that, total, in IFFT8? the inner dct code in tremor / codeclib uses 4 muls in butterfly_16 (so equivalent to 8 complex pairs, I guess)
01:02:39stripwaxbut I the arrangement of data is different (we actually operate on two halves of a 16-point DCT at the same time, or something like that). So I guess the IFFT8 is equivalent to something like 'half' of butterfly_32
01:02:57 Join linuxstb [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
01:03:30stripwaxWhich would be half of (4+4+20) so 14 muls ?
01:03:50stripwax^I the^I think the
01:03:57 Quit linuxstb (Remote closed the connection)
01:05:28 Quit DerPapst ("Leaving.")
01:05:28stripwaxbutterfly_32 calls butterfly_16 twice (hence 4+4), plus 4 MULT31s, plus 4 X[N]PRODs each of which is 4 muls.
01:07:50saratogastripwax: 4 muls
01:08:00stripwaxsaratoga - are you sure? looking at liba52/imdct.c, it's only got 4 muls total in ifft8 (so equiv to 4 muls total in tremor/codeclib butterfly_16)
01:08:07stripwaxah, you type faster than I do.
01:08:12stripwaxright 4 muls total. same same.
01:09:32 Join MG_Man [0] (n=MGMan@97.101.208.11)
01:10:15MG_ManI've got a question about tagnavi
01:10:53MG_ManIs there a way in tagnavi-custom.config to show the artist in the track name?
01:11:03MG_ManSo instead of Song Name it would be Artist - Song Name?
01:11:18MG_ManBasically, is it possible to re-define fmt_track?
01:11:32MG_Maner, fmt_title
01:12:16MG_ManAnd is there a way to get it to display the file's filename instead of <<Untagged>>?
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01:16:45 Join casainho [0] (n=chatzill@bl15-147-90.dsl.telepac.pt)
01:17:43casainhoJdGordon: hello
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01:39:12 Quit Strife89 ("Installing the silverex build of XChat.")
01:42:10ej0rgeThat's twice now that my S60 has locked up in the fm radio screen. This time after i had walked away from it for a minute.
01:43:35 Join Strife89 [0] (n=Strife89@adsl-220-115-192.mcn.bellsouth.net)
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01:56:27stripwaxsaratoga ok so I think I understand one issue/different between tremor and a52: a52 has two block sizes to choose from, and tremor has a range of possible block sizes that the encoder could choose to use. So a52 has been coded to take advantage of two hardcodec (effectively) split-radix FFTs for the two blocksizes
01:56:42 Join HBK [0] (n=hbk@rrcs-97-77-51-170.sw.biz.rr.com)
01:57:04stripwaxwhereas tremor has been coded with a regular (but perhaps not optimal?) generic butterfly loop.
01:57:22stripwax^hardcodec^hardcoded (...wow)
01:58:37stripwaxanyway, I'm sure you could take out 16 muls from mdct_butterfly_generic in codeclib by observing that exactly once in each of the loop the factors are zero (or one)
01:58:41Dhraakelliana little portmanteaued?
01:58:59stripwaxa little ..
01:59:13Dhraakelliancould I get a Fuze Sudoku keymap patch committed?
01:59:44Dhraakelliangetting rid of a combo for accessing the scratchpad
02:00
02:00:55Dhraakellian(FS #10459)
02:02:00 Quit fieldri1968_ ("Ex-Chat")
02:02:39 Quit Strife89 ("If you hold a Unix shell to your ear, you can hear the C.")
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02:04:50casainhohello
02:05:44casainhoanyone interested on joining porting Rockbox for Mini2440? a $85 hardware (with schematic and all datahseets)?
02:06:35MG_ManA devboard?
02:06:57casainhothis one: http://cgi.ebay.com/mini2440-S3C2440-ARM9-Board-3-5-TFT-LCD-Touch-Screen_W0QQitemZ120468760959QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1c0c7f697f&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
02:07:40casainho400MHz ARM9 Board with 3.5" TFT LCD Touch Screen
02:07:47casainho$85
02:08:14MG_ManSeems like a strange target
02:08:22MG_ManBut I guess if someone has enough interest
02:08:26casainhowe have already the LCD working
02:08:38casainhokernel_init()
02:09:20stripwaxcasainho - if it's a dev board, do they provide drivers already, and datasheets, etc? assuming so, seems like the porting should be easy (compared to most other targets). that's "easy" not, like, actually easy, but still
02:11:14casainhothey provide scheamtic, all datasheets and some code: http://www.friendlyarm.net/downloads
02:11:36casainhowe think in making a kind of home/car player based on Rockbox :-)
02:11:54Strife89Hardware looks nifty.
02:12:50stripwaxit does look pretty. planning on using sdcard storage or something else?
02:12:59casainhowe need just to put that hardware inside a case and provide +5Volts to it :-)
02:13:39casainhoyes, SD Card. But later try HDD... I know that there are many people looking for targets that have HDD
02:14:41casainhodoes Rockbox suppport the touch screens
02:14:48casainho?
02:15:17 Quit HBK (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
02:15:19MG_ManYes, there are touchscreen targets
02:15:31MG_ManSuch as the m:Robe 500
02:15:59casainhobut there is working code on Rockbox for it?
02:17:36kkurbjunyes there is
02:17:43kkurbjunthe touchscreen works quite well
02:17:55kkurbjunit still needs work though
02:18:03kkurbjunnot all screens support absolute touch
02:18:14kkurbjunand not all plugins fully use the touchscreen
02:18:40casainhoabsolute touch? −− like reading by ADCs?
02:19:04casainhofor now we would like to just play some music and navigate on menus, no plugins
02:19:17kkurbjunplaying music and navigating menus works
02:19:23kkurbjunyou can see it working in the simulator
02:19:30kkurbjunand it works on target too for that matter
02:19:40stripwaxcasainho - take a look at shotofadds recent wiki page addition ...
02:20:44casainhostripwax: thanks
02:23:19 Quit akur1 ("Leaving.")
02:24:11kkurbjuncasainho: what happened to the lyre?
02:24:36 Quit krabador (Client Quit)
02:24:46casainhokkurbjun: it's a Lyre project
02:25:08casainhothat's a version where we are using that full system hardware
02:25:33casainhobut I am still waintting for ARMopendous boards, that is made for a portable device
02:28:39casainhobye bye :-)
02:28:41 Quit casainho ("ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.3/20090824085743]")
02:30:56MG_ManIs there a guide anywhere for making one's own tagnavi_custom.config?
02:31:21MG_ManI'd like to make the Track view show the artist AND title, so I guess I;ll need to use the custom config to do that
02:32:41 Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net)
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02:34:22 Quit timc (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
02:36:30***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:37:11MG_Manat least a page that defines some of the syntax?
02:37:26MG_ManLike what the %xxx options and such do?
02:37:31MG_ManAnybody?
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02:40:08Strife89MG_Man: I think there's a Wiki page....
02:40:57MG_ManI've looked in the search bar, the only things that came up are flyspray issues
02:41:14MG_ManAnything I should search for besides "tagnavi" and "custom tagnavi" and the like?
02:41:28 Quit MG_Man ("...GOT AWAY SAFELY!")
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02:42:17MG_Manwhoops
02:43:11Strife89MG_Man: Nice quit message. :P\
02:43:28 Join marek_ [0] (n=marek@dynamic-78-8-2-167.ssp.dialog.net.pl)
02:44:11Strife89MG_Man: In answer to your question, nothing that I know of.
02:44:19Strife89MG_Man: Why not search the forums?
02:44:56MG_ManI'll try
02:48:22MG_ManOkay, finally turned up something in the Wiki
02:48:36MG_ManIt was on the database page (odd, searching for Database didn't bring up a wiki page, oh well)
02:49:23 Join timc [0] (n=aoeu@119.109.98.204)
02:50:58MG_ManIt is my understanding that by adding filename to a conditional, it wil lfall back on that instead of showing <Untagged> for the track, correct?
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03:00
03:00:14saratogashouldn't const variables be ICONST_ATTR rather then IDATA_ATTR?
03:02:23 Quit Rob2222 ()
03:03:58stripwaxas I understand it, yes (but I could be wrong also)
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03:08:15 Quit stripwax ("http://miranda-im.org")
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03:19:42MG_ManI wonder if there will ever be a custom-tagnavi esque thing for rockbox's menu itself
03:19:57MG_ManLet people set the menu how they want, so they c ould put pictureflow at the main menu if they really liked
03:20:48saratogastripwax: you make any sense of the ifft128_c function in ac3?
03:21:15saratogai'm not sure if its an optimization or some weird detail about how ac3 encodes its coefficients
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03:29:26Strife89MG_Man: There's been a lot of discussion about that, I believe.
03:29:40Strife89MG_Man: I think there's a basic patch.
03:30:20Strife89MG_Man: Long story short, customizable menus would likely open the floodgates.
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03:34:13CIA-43New commit by 03saratoga (r22849): Change IDATA to ICONST for lookup tables since they're actually constant.
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04:36:33***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
04:43:10 Join Ebert_ [0] (n=EbErT@adsl-34-33-189.asm.bellsouth.net)
04:44:14Ebert_hi, I am trying to patch firmware onto an Iriver iHP 120, it says on bootup I have version "1.63 U"
04:44:22Ebert_does this mean US or EU ?
04:48:45Ebert_is there another way of telling for sure if its EU or US firmware?
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05:00
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05:19:02Beta2KI would assume US
05:19:12Beta2KE normalu dictates EU
05:23:08Ebert_yea I would too, i just dont wanna brick this brand-new looking player
05:23:23Ebert_and I think ill use the automated program to install for once
05:25:37Beta2KHehee
05:25:52 Quit Strife89 ("Bed.")
05:25:58Beta2KHas it got JTAG?
05:26:13Ebert_what is that
05:28:06Ebert_I havent had an iRiver in 6 years, since a SlimX cd player. The remote is the same, but Im slightly shellshocked ^^
05:28:12Beta2KA way of directly accessing a flash chip over which you can write a new image into it
05:28:38Beta2KAlso used for debugging and stepping a CPU
05:29:06Ebert_probably not, I have not seen anything on rockbox.org about recovering using that method
05:29:44Ebert_ill just cross my fingers and let my brow sweat i guess
05:30:16Beta2KThat's what's nice about my Toshiba :)
05:30:27LloreanIf I recall correctly, you can pretty much flash any region firmware on it; it's really only going to affect the features it has if you choose to boot into the original firmware
05:31:14Ebert_ok thank you, U seems to be US anyhow
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06:00
06:00:33Ebert_uh the rockbox utility does not seem to be changing the ihp_120.hex bootload file
06:01:48Ebert_I have reflashed the player twice after modifying the ihp_120.hex file with bootloader in rockbox utility
06:05:28 Quit intrados4 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
06:24:53Ebert_wow, i dont understand this time. do i need to use a more recent firmware, because an identical version wont flash over?
06:34:30Ebert_nope, I updated the firmware and hit it with the bootloader, now the player has version 1.66 with no rockbox added
06:36:36***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
06:37:51Ebert_going to try it on windows
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07:00
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07:33:05n1sEbert_: could you compare md5 or even filesize between the vanilla .hex file and the one rbutil places on the player?
07:33:22Ebert_they stay the same size
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07:34:14Ebert_let me try One more thing
07:34:19n1spatching fails for some reason then, does it give any errors at all?
07:34:39Ebert_no, no errors
07:34:43Ebert_it says it passed
07:34:57Ebert_stays at 1.9mb
07:35:36Ebert_is there an earlier version of rbutil I can try?
07:37:39Ebert_I did not delete the vanilla .hex from the player when using rbutil, let me try that
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07:41:38n1sdowload server seems to keep older versions so you can get them here if you like to test http://download.rockbox.org/rbutil/
07:43:12Ebert_ahh that was it, I never deleted the original, so it didnt replace it with a patched one from 1.9mb to 2mb..
07:43:51Ebert_stupid me, thanks for saying 'vanilla' i think it kicked my brain into gear
07:44:37n1swell, it does sound like a bug to me, could you please report it in the tracker?
07:45:31Ebert_maybe it is like that so patching the .hex stays 'legal'
07:49:46Ebert_but it should have some sort of message. yes i will report it.
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07:55:19amiconnsaratoga: Your ICONST_ATTR fix is incomplete, or rather, using IDATA_ATTR was technically correct in that case
07:56:08amiconnICONST_ATTR is meant to be used for 'const' variables, but all these tables aren't qualified 'const', even if they're kept constant in the code
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07:58:32amiconnActually there is no functional difference between ICONST_ATTR and IDATA_ATTR. They are only necessary because gcc refuses to put const and non-const into the same section. If only one of these types occurs in the code, you could use either (but of course shouldn't to avoid confusion)
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08:08:41amiconnsaratoga: That can be fixed easily, but it needs a (single) change in imdct.c. Shall I commit?
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08:36:40***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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09:03:28FlynDiceFunman: Ping
09:04:42funmanFlynDice: pong
09:04:48FlynDicegot some time for SD & DMA questions?
09:05:06funmansure
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09:07:08FlynDiceI'm trying to work out how we know the dma transfer is completed. It seems we get the wakeup signal through the MCI isr when the DATA END shows up, is this correct?
09:07:38funmancorrect
09:08:16funmanwe don't check the exact bit of MCI_STATUS set however
09:08:37funmansince we only mask DATA_END and error bits, and we check for errors in the isr
09:09:04funmanit might be worth checking that DATA_END is set and not another bit
09:09:34FlynDiceI'm thinking if we use this signal it may not give time for the fifo to empty into the uncached buffer before we then memcopy from uncached to buf, does this make sense?
09:10:48FlynDicefor a read that is
09:10:57FlynDiceie the card may be done sending data to the fifo but the dma transfer is not done yet
09:11:05funmanhmm right, this only tells us the data transfer has been done to/from the fifo
09:11:37funmani'm cecking the pl180 doc
09:11:56funmanto see what "data counter is zero" means
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09:12:47funmanthere is a description of dma signals which tells about "data counter" at 2.3.2 DMA (page 35 of pdf)
09:13:08FlynDiceyes was reading that an hour ago....
09:13:51funmandid you try reverting r19714 ? (290d6d38294aecfa5c400e08ce8ccb1fd21fd5c4 in git)
09:14:29FlynDiceno, what changed there?
09:14:42funmani moved end of transfer signal from DMA module to SD module
09:14:55funmanit made the code simpler, but perhaps also incorrect :/
09:15:34funmani believe because PCM & SD didn't signal end of transfer in the same way
09:16:13funmanif we use DMA module to notify end of transfer, we're sure all data has been moved
09:16:32FlynDicethat's what I've been thinking
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09:18:27FlynDicepcm uses the TCI dma int and then calls dma_callback, right?
09:18:56funmanright
09:19:09funmanso it's just a matter of adding a callback to dma_enable_channel()
09:19:55funmanby the way how did you manage to run your player without modifying CCU_SCON ?
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09:22:30FlynDiceI tried adding and rearranging a few things in the dma driver and thought I'd see if it worked and it did... give me a minute and I'll pastebin my current diff with the stuff I've got going.
09:26:48FlynDiceI end up rearranging thing a lot so they make sense to me and I can understand them better. Here's what I've been using all day. if(0) the widebus stuff in the sd init section. http://pastie.org/634558
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09:30:56funmanok the important changes are in channel control register
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09:32:09FlynDiceI added the protection bits in there but I thought you said the OF only uses o's
09:32:18FlynDiceor 0's even...
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09:33:36FlynDiceI also added clearing the interrupts as that was a step that the pl081 docs had
09:38:26funmanarguments traverse a lot of functions/structures in dma code, so an error from me is very possible
09:38:37funmanor perhaps they just use very different code :)
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09:42:49FlynDiceI'm off to bed, been a long day :)
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09:49:40funmanthanks!
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14:18:05fanta2Anyone have any ideas as to why usb_drv_send_nonblocking on a sansa e200 would work fine for one packet and fail on the next? USBTrace shows a USBD_STATUS_XACT_ERROR and none of the sent data, if that's any help.
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14:23:46gevaertsdo you wait for completion properly?
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14:30:30fanta2I think so, after the first usb_drv_send_nonblocking call it returns until transfer_complete is called with USB_DIR_IN
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14:44:00enthdegreeCan rockbox antialias fonts?
14:48:11GodEater__enthdegree: not yet
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14:53:40Bob_CAnyone working on Samsung NAND controller code?
14:54:36fanta2Does data sent using usb_drv_send have to be split into 64-byte chunks (or whatever the wMaxPacketSize variable is set to), or is it done automatically?
14:55:06gevaertsthat should be done by the driver. There may still be limits though (about 64k or so)
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14:59:42markunBob_C: I think linuxstb is working on it.
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15:00:15markunand TheSeven and betrik
15:00:35markunBob_C: are you as well?
15:00:53Bob_COk, I want to write a driver for the s3c2440 I wonder if the controller is any way compatible
15:01:19TheSevenis there a datasheet for that soc?
15:01:25markunyes, we have it
15:01:54TheSeventhen compare it to the s5l8700 one.
15:02:06markunhttp://www.rockbox.org/wiki/pub/Main/DataSheets/um_s3c2440a_rev10.pdf
15:02:13TheSeventhe s5l8700 preliminary DS isn't 100% accurate, but at least most things match
15:04:52TheSevendoesn't look too similar
15:05:35TheSeventhe s3c2440 seems to have ECC linked pretty tight into the NAND controller, while s5l8700's ecc is almost separate
15:06:09TheSevendon't think you can re-use much code there
15:06:41Bob_Cok, I kinda expected that. IME Samsung never do the same thing twice
15:08:02TheSevenBob_C: do you already know what kind of FTL is running on that target? (which target is it, btw?)
15:08:36Bob_CI am working on the Lyre project, we can use whatever FTL we want ;)
15:09:01TheSeventhen don't use the crap I'm currently reversing on the ipods...
15:15:16Bob_CAny suggestions for an FTL?
15:15:50TorneThere are several in Linux.
15:16:09Tornethere is also work to develop one as a layer on top of UBI which is possibly nicer :)
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15:16:20Tornebut generally they are a bit of a black art
15:16:29Tornemost of them are very patented-y :)
15:18:38Bob_CWhat about yaffs?
15:18:55TorneFlash filesystems are not FTLs
15:19:02Tornetotally different concept
15:19:57Bob_Cok, I'm not very familiar with these things
15:20:07Torneif you use a flash filesystem (jffs/yaffs/ubifs/etc) you will not be able to expose the disk as USB mass storage
15:20:26Torneand of course you would have to actually implement that filesystem for rockbox :)
15:20:29Torneinstead of being able to use FAT
15:20:41Torneyou'd also need to implement MTP or some other file transfer protocol that doesn't rely on MSC
15:20:59Tornean FTL turns a flash device into something that looks enough like a normal disk that you can format it as FAT
15:21:16Bob_CI'd like to ditch FAT anyway
15:21:43TorneWell, unless you are also going to implement MTP and a flash filesystem for rockbox in the course of porting to your hardware I would suggest you leave that for later :)
15:22:01Zagorwell you can use MSC, but all usb hosts (computers) have to support whatever file system you choose...
15:22:24TorneZagor: well, yes. This is unlikely to be useful to most normal humans :)
15:22:30Zagorindeed :)
15:22:38Tornemost of the *good* flash filesystems are not even in the mainline linux kernel
15:22:47Torneso 99% of even linux machines won't be able to mount them
15:22:55Tornelet alone other OSes :)
15:23:17Torneand you can't use MSC very easily even then, except to read.
15:23:23ZagorBob_C: fat is near-perfect for big-file media players. don't fall into the old == bad trap.
15:23:26TorneMSC doesn't understand erase blocks
15:23:43Torneyou can do a trivial readonly 'FTL' which lets it be read as a block device
15:23:44Tornebut supporting writing over SCSI is hard
15:24:03Bob_CMy concern with FAT is the licensing issue
15:24:39ZagorTorne: well if you have FTL you do block device emulation anyway, so supporting scsi on top shouldn't be difficult
15:25:17GaloisFAT doesn't support weird characters in filenames. This annoys me quite a bit, even on media players. Although not enough to do anything about it.
15:25:55ZagorGalois: right, that is a definite downside
15:25:57*GodEater__ has plenty of weird characters in the filenames on his iPod.
15:26:10Galoisby weird characters I mean things like :
15:26:28GodEater__you literally mean ":"
15:26:30GodEater__?
15:26:35Galoisyes, the drive colon
15:26:37ZagorBob_C: the fat patent can be worked around. see http://lkml.org/lkml/2009/6/26/313 for example
15:26:55GodEater__ah right
15:27:07GodEater__I wouldn't have called a colon a weird character :)
15:27:09TorneThe FAT patent is not the port's issue, anyway
15:27:32Torneany licensing issues with FAT that might exist, which is highly debateable, aren't specific to any one player
15:27:53Bob_CWell, I guess that's your opinion
15:28:10Tornewhether there's an issue is opinion, but whether it's a port issue is fact :)
15:28:17Torneif it's an issue it's an issue for rockbox as a whole
15:28:22GodEater__no it's fact. If the FAT patent becomes an issue, then it will apply to all of rockbox
15:28:30Torneit's not something to care about specific to one port.
15:29:05Bob_CThe Lyre project is not just a port, it's actually an Open Hardware player.
15:29:17Tornethe software on it is just a port
15:30:00GodEater__in theory in could run other software than Rockbox
15:30:02Torneanyway. if you desperately wanted to avoid FAT the easiest way would be to still implement an FTL, but format the disk as ext2.
15:30:21Torneporting ext2 for rockbox would be much easier than porting a flash fs
15:30:25GodEater__but that still means implementing a whole new file system in Rockbox
15:30:28TorneYes
15:30:37TorneBut it's *less* work than doing UBIFS+MTP or similar :)
15:30:44GodEater__and you then limit your target audience to people who own OSes that can mount ext2 devices
15:30:53TorneThe best option really is FAT, IMO.
15:31:03GodEater__which is why we implemented it :)
15:31:04Tornebut if you want to rule that out then flash filesystems are a long way from being second best
15:31:16Bob_CIs MTP not viable?
15:31:20Torneso i suspect you are going to want an FTL regardless
15:31:59GodEater__it's certainly viable, but again, you limit your audience. There are those amongst us who like our Rockbox as block devices
15:32:02TorneMTP is perfectly possible in theory but it's a lot of work; it's a complete departure from the way we work at the moment.
15:32:05ZagorBob_C: one of the reasons people like rockbox is that we are not limited to mtp
15:32:08Torneand not everyone will *want* MTP
15:32:16GodEater__I won't want it for example
15:33:21TorneBob_C: Finding an FTL you can port that will work and doesn't have licensing issues is already going to be difficult. Doing it for a flash FS, and hten *also* implementing MTP on top of that, will be waaaay harder
15:33:42ZagorBob_C: fat licensing is not an issue. use fat and focus on the real work instead.
15:34:10*GodEater__ thinks Zagor should write a "WhyNo[InsertYourFavouriteFileSystemHereThatIsn'tFat]InRockbox" document to go with the "WhyNoMallocInRockbox" one
15:34:17Bob_CI would like to at least provide a choice, if MS hadn't sued TomTom I probably wouldn't be so concerned.
15:34:28TorneBob_C: Using an FTL provides a choice
15:34:38Zagorthere is more than enough work to do without inventing new huge tasks that aren't necessary
15:34:38TorneYou can use any block device based filesystem which someone implements support for in rockbox
15:34:53TorneAnd using an FTL means you can *start off by testing it with FAT* which is already implemented
15:35:05Torneif you later really decide you don't want fat you can do some other FS later on top of the same FTL.
15:35:11ZagorBob_C: you are only concerned because you are uninformed. read up and you'll see that it's not anything to worry about.
15:37:15Bob_CLOL, this is like being at work
15:37:49GodEater__Bob_C: welcome in ;)
15:38:07Zagorhaha, well you get do do what you like. I can only recommend not wasting effort on pointless things.
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15:38:32GodEater__indeed, we offer only strong recommendations, not orders :)
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15:39:27ZagorBob_C: btw why are you using nand chips instead of simple sd cards?
15:40:14ZagorI know "change the hardware" is not exactly what you want to hear... :-) I'm just curious.
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15:41:12Bob_CWell, maybe we can avoid some pain by not using NAND - the hardware is not well defined yet.
15:41:48Tornea NOR bootflash with the first stage loader, and then a uSD slot or soldered eMMC device, would be easier if you have support for that
15:41:56Zagorpluggable cards have many benefit. built-in ftl is one...
15:42:20Tornean di would hope your SoC has at least *one* SD/MMC controller..
15:43:51Bob_CI like that idea. Any downsides - cost/size I guess?
15:44:04TorneThe slot has a small cost associated :)
15:44:10Tornebut that's what eMMC is for
15:44:26Torneembedded MMC is basically an MMC card, with the plastic packaging removed, soldered directly to the PCB
15:44:30Torneit's not pluggable
15:44:52Tornebut it uses the standard MMC interface and thus it's easy to hook up and it takes care of flash trnaslation
15:45:14Tornethey are very very small. comparable/smaller to NAND parts
15:45:37aaron424Is the cowon D2+ the same hardware as the D2?
15:45:44TheSeveni'd personally go for pluggable though, so µSD
15:45:49ZagorI would suggest using pluggable if possible. it allows the user to select memory size and keeps a single base unit at a low price.
15:46:08TorneWell, the usual option there is to have one soldered and then also a slot. :)
15:46:19Bob_CZagor: that's what appeals to me
15:46:19Torneit depends on your use cases
15:46:34ZagorTorne: yeah but I don't quite see the point of that other than marketing
15:46:35Tornemost SoCs have at lesat two, often three, sd/mmc controllers
15:46:43TorneZagor: It means you don't have your OS on a removeable card
15:47:03Tornewhich is a consumer friendly feature. that may not matter for us folks :)
15:47:20Torneand also it's handy for security/etc purposes, which again may not matter for us
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15:47:46Torne(you can't do paging from removable cards, for example ;)
15:47:58Zagoryeah that is a point. running one rockbox version and then plugging in a card with an older version is likely to... crash :)
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16:20:49awake_hi, i tried to install rockbox onto the sansa fuze with rockbox utility but it couldnt download rockbox-sansa-fuze-.zip (404 error)
16:21:15awake_now when i boot it up, it shows rockbox but says firmware not found. i can boot into the original firmware while holding left as i start it up
16:21:52awake_what should i do now? i've downloaded rockbox-sansa-fuze.zip manually, can i extract that into the .rockbox folder?
16:22:02funmanawake_: current rbutil version might be buggy, you can install a firmware manually though, get it from current build webpage and extract it into the root folder of the player
16:22:19funmanthe .rockbox folder is inside the zip, just unzip it in the root folder
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16:25:38awake_oh okay, trying it now, thanks
16:28:49funman"we have by default no support for atomic operations"
16:28:54funmanoops sorry
16:30:09 Part likemindead ("FOSS FTW!")
16:36:49***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:43:49 Quit teru ("Quit")
16:47:14 Join BdN3504 [0] (n=d4ca7c02@giant.haxx.se)
16:48:26BdN3504Is there a tool for windows or linux, which helps me build the rockbox database? i am thinking of something like this:
16:48:49BdN3504i give the program the drive letter on which rockbox is installed,
16:49:39BdN3504the program indexes all music files, creates the the nine database tcd files + the idx tcd and writes them back to the device
16:50:37BdN3504http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/pub/Main/TagcacheDBFormat/rblib.py.txt from http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/TagcacheDBFormat#Tools does not do this, right?
16:50:45GodEater__BdN3504: yes, it's in the rockbox source tree
16:50:51GodEater__tools/database.c
16:51:05GodEater__worked fine last time I tried it - you need to build it yourself though
16:51:19BdN3504for which architecture?
16:51:25 Quit toffe82 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
16:51:32GodEater__it's source code
16:51:38GodEater__build it for what you run
16:52:22BdN3504ok, so if i want to compile it from a linux environment, can i simply use gcc and a crosscompiler?
16:52:33GodEater__why would you need a cross compiler ?
16:52:37BdN3504for windows i mean
16:52:44GodEater__huh ?
16:52:58BdN3504i want to use linux to compile for windows
16:53:01BdN3504:)
16:53:06GodEater__if you're building from a linux env. why would you build a windows version ?
16:53:08GodEater__why ?
16:53:14GodEater__why not build it on windows ?
16:53:29BdN3504convenience, linux is vm windows is my native os
16:53:43BdN3504because i have no compiler on the windows machine
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16:53:54GodEater__well if you're determined to make it hard for yourself, you go right ahead
16:54:04GodEater__I think you'll need to write your own Makefile though
16:54:53BdN3504ok, thanks. i'll see what i can do. is this a commandline tool or does it have a gui?
16:55:13GodEater__commandline
16:55:15BdN3504is it documented somewhere?
16:55:24GodEater__nope
16:55:29GodEater__only in the code
16:55:46BdN3504hmmm, so no man pages or something like that?
16:55:51GodEater__nope
16:56:00GodEater__that's what "No documentation" means :)
16:56:04BdN3504:)
16:56:25BdN3504why thank you. i will go on and try to compile
16:56:28GodEater__you build it, put it in your path, change directory to the root of your player, run it.
16:56:45GodEater__there are no command line arguments, no help, no nothing.
16:56:59BdN3504ahh ok
16:57:23GodEater__if you want to make it a bit more friendly, go right ahead :)
16:58:47BdN3504did you use that tool on a windows machine?
17:00
17:00:56GodEater__hell nop
17:01:05GodEater__I won't let windows in the house
17:02:22BdN3504k i guess "that's all folks", i'll be back once i'm done finished compiling and testing... Do you think it's a bad idea to put the binaries on the wiki database page?
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17:05:20funmanno it doesn't seem to be a bad idea if you tested it
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17:37:02MiDHi. Is there anyone here who can provide support for the e280v2 in terms of installation (Not bricked)
17:39:52Torneif you've tried following the instructions and it's gone wrong/not working, say exactly what you did and what happened and someone might be able to help
17:40:07Torneif you've not tried following the instructions then no, it's unlikely that anyone is going to go through it with you :)
17:40:15MiDI attempted to do an installation using the recommended Rockbox Installation Utility
17:40:31MiDI did the Rockbox Bootloader installation first, providing the original firmware from SanDisk for the Sansa
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17:40:59MiDThen, I installed the unstable for Rockbox for the e200v2
17:41:03 Quit FlynDice (Remote closed the connection)
17:41:11funmanMiD: current rockbox utility doesn't work for e200, get the zip file from the "current build" page and unzip it into the root folder of your player
17:41:55MiDfunman: After the failure to launch, I tried just that. Used mkams to write the modified bootloader, and extracted the build to the root folder.
17:42:23MiDHowever, the bootloader failed to launch
17:42:26funmanbootloader installation should work
17:42:34MiDand went straight into the Sansa firmware
17:42:58MiDIn both cases
17:43:10funmanis the file still present on your device ? e200pa.bin iirc
17:43:18MiDindeed it is
17:43:28funmanwhat is its name ?
17:43:45MiDthats the correct name
17:43:51funmanwhat?
17:43:58MiDe200pa.bin
17:44:09funmanare you sure it's an e200v2 and not an e200v1 ?
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17:44:26MiDPositive
17:44:33 Join FlynDice [0] (n=FlynDice@c-24-19-225-90.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
17:44:41funmanfirst try doing a normal firmware upgrade with the assistance of sandisk forums
17:45:32MiDOk
17:45:55MiDSansa v2's are identified by the 03.**.** prefix, correct?
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17:46:29funmancorrect
17:46:33MiDOk
17:46:35funmanfor e200v23
17:46:38funmane200v2*
17:46:50MiDI'll head over there and try to get some assistance with firmware upgrades
17:46:51MiDThanks
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17:49:53 Join taketwo [0] (n=51ad82d4@giant.haxx.se)
17:49:59taketwohi guys
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17:51:09taketwocould someone tell me whats the lightning symbol in the right upper corner of my ipod nano 1g?
17:51:29taketwoit occours when iam fast skipping my music
17:51:46taketwodidnt find anything about that in the faq
17:52:10funmanit must be the "disk active" indicator
17:52:42taketwohmk
17:52:51taketwois there a way to avoid this?
17:53:17funmanperhaps editing the theme
17:53:29Torneyah, you can remove it from the wps you are using
17:53:40taketwour kiddin hah?
17:54:42Tornewhat theme is it?
17:54:58taketwomom
17:55:27taketworockboxed
17:56:35taketwosry rockbox_default
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17:57:24Tornethen no, you cna't remove it from that
17:57:29Tornebecause that's the statusbar :)
17:57:41Torneuse a different WPS
17:59:20taketwothe annoying thing about that is, the player freezes for some seconds i dont know why it should have something to do with the theme. i have a couple of 100mb mp3´s on it and with when it skips to them he just freezes
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18:00
18:00:14Torneer, if you skip ahead past a 100mb file then yes, it has to buffer the new file
18:00:23Tornethere's not enough memory to have buffered that in advance
18:00:48Strife89taketwo: What build are you using?
18:01:14taketwowhere can i look for that? i used the latest biuld on the site
18:01:21Strife89taketwo: Ah.
18:01:34Strife89taketwo: It's under System->Rockbox Info.
18:01:57taketwo3.3
18:02:04Tornetaketwo: it's nothing to do with the theme, anyway
18:02:11 Quit petur ("work->...")
18:02:13Tornethe symbol that appears is just telling you it's reading from the disk
18:02:20Tornewell not disk
18:02:23Torne"storage" :)
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18:02:53domonokytaketwo: just as a note: 3.3 isnt the latest build.
18:03:25Strife89taketwo: Rockbox release 3.4 has been out for 6 days. ;)
18:03:47taketwook so i have to live with that.. i was just wondering if i adjust something wrong / oh hey great news i take a look =) thx
18:04:10domonokyand "latest build" normally means the latest development build (which is build on every source change)
18:05:44taketwosilly question, but can i just over install this build?
18:05:48Tornetaketwo: i wouldn't normally epxect it to completely freeze for several seconds..
18:05:54Torneespecially since that's a flash player
18:05:59Strife89taketwo: Yes.
18:06:02domonokytaketwo: yes, just install again.
18:06:05taketwook
18:06:18Strife89Torne, taketwo: Is he/ are you using dircache?
18:06:26Strife89That will help immensely.
18:06:48taketwothe freezes take some seconds with 100mb files
18:06:56Tornetaketwo: the size of the file shouldn't matter
18:06:59taketwoi dont know where can i look it up?
18:07:03Torneit only needs to read the beginning
18:07:29Strife89taketwo: Settings -> General Settings -> System -> directory cache.
18:07:33Strife89taketwo: I think.
18:08:23taketwoits on
18:09:18Strife89taketwo: What format is the file in, again?
18:09:52taketwomy music?
18:10:05Strife89taketwo: Yes.
18:10:17taketwothere all mp3
18:10:37Strife89Bit rate?
18:11:59taketwoidk not all but the most 192
18:12:33taketwosome are convertes youtube files.. so they have 96 or something i dont know
18:12:37Strife89taketwo: How about that ~100MB file?
18:12:44Tornejust to clarify: you mean you ar eplaying a playlist of just ordinary mp3s, and when you skip ahead tracks, sometimes it does nothing for several seconds before starting to play the track you skipped to?
18:12:45taketwo320
18:13:04Strife89taketwo: That might be the issue, then. Top bitrate + big file = lag.
18:13:18Torneis it skipping *onto* the big track, or skipping *past* the big track which is the problem?
18:13:24*Strife89 leaves for a lunch break.
18:13:33 Quit Strife89 ("Lunch.")
18:13:50taketwook thx strife89
18:14:22taketwoiam browsing my database and selected a file and then skip trough
18:14:48taketwoi hope you know what i mean my english is not so good
18:15:19TorneWhat's playing when you hit skip?
18:15:24Tornea regular file, or one of hte large ones?
18:16:41taketwothere are realy much doubled files in the database and the most of them are reg. mp3´s of 130 tracks 15 are large i think
18:18:27Tornetaketwo: your ipod only has 32MB of RAM, some of which is used for rockbox. when you're just listening to music normally, we buffer ~29 MB of data up in advance
18:18:38Torneso there are no delays loading up files
18:18:56Tornewhen you skip ahead, you can end up skipping past enough tracks that there is no data buffered at all for the file that's now the one it should be playing
18:19:19Torneat this point the music will stop briefly as it starts buffering again from the track you skipped up to.
18:19:41TorneI wouldn't normally expect this to take that long on a player with no hard drive though
18:20:17Tornebut exactly how long depends on your settings a little..
18:20:23taketwodo you mean i skip to fast? or did i get it wrong
18:20:42Torneno, it's fine to skip as fast as you want
18:20:55Tornerockbox just can't *immediately* start playing the next track if you skip ahead too many
18:21:08Tornebecause it can only keep a couple of tracks loaded up at a time
18:21:33Torneif the music pauses for a second when you do that then that's probably normal behaviour...
18:21:54Torneyou might be able to reduce the time it pauses for by changing various settings but it will never go away entirely
18:22:07taketwook i got THAT. =) thx for the help anyway!
18:22:15Tornealso you may find it's quicker on a newer version
18:22:19Tornetry upgrading to 3.4 :)
18:22:34taketwoi updated a minute ago but it keeps on buffering
18:23:10Torneyes, buffering is not optional :)
18:23:24Tornefiles have to be loaded into memory before they can be played
18:23:37Tornerockbox tries to have the right files loaded up in advance whenever possible
18:23:39taketwosure its not but i thought could be faster :P
18:23:46Tornewhich works fine if you listen to a playlist in order without skipping
18:24:03Tornewell, mayb eit could be.
18:24:08taketwowell, playlists arent so my thing. i just browse all day long =)
18:24:13Tornei'm not saying there is definately nothing wrong
18:24:25Tornebut *some* delay is expected
18:24:45Torneyah, but rockbox treats everything as a playlist.
18:24:48taketwoi can live with it so its no big problem i love rockbox anyway =D
18:24:51Torneit doesn't have to be an actual .m3u file
18:25:09Tornejust picking a file from a directory or from the database creates a dynamic playlist with the files in that directory or database menu in.
18:25:25taketwoyea so the playlist i use are all of my mp3´s right
18:25:26Torneso we say playlist for everything :)
18:25:39taketwohmk
18:25:48Torneif you use the database then the playlist will be whatever was visible in the database when you picked a file
18:25:51Torneso if you go artist -> album -> track
18:25:59Tornethen the playlist will be that whole album, starting from the track you picked
18:26:18Tornebut if you just go to the tracklisting at the top level with every artist/album mixed together then the playlist will be every file on your player, starting from the track you picked.
18:26:26Tornedoes that make sense?
18:26:38taketwoyea i know what you mean
18:26:55Torneit shouldn't make any difference to buffering though
18:27:10Tornebuffering starts with the file you select and then if there is more room after that file, it loads up whever is next until it runs out of space
18:27:15Tornethe total size of the playlist doesn't matter
18:27:32Tornebut if you often change your mind about what you want to play then yes, it will hav eto rebuffer every time
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18:29:18taketwook thanks for your help =) i just wanted to know what that symbol is now i know its buffering =D
18:32:26CIA-43New commit by 03FlynDice (r22850): AMS Sansa: Replace simple write delay with a smarter check on status of MCI FIFO.
18:32:50taketwobye guys it was nice to meet you
18:36:11 Join BdN3504 [0] (n=55b20595@giant.haxx.se)
18:36:40BdN3504hey, i inquired earlier about the database tool. this is what i get when i try to compile on windows: http://pastie.org/635213
18:36:50***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:37:59gevaertsyou didn't see the makefile there?
18:38:01 Quit taketwo ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
18:38:26BdN3504what about it?
18:38:35BdN3504can i simply make?
18:38:53gevaertsthat's much more likely to work than what you tried, yes
18:39:07Bob_CPMJI make should work under Cygwin I think
18:39:25gevaertswhy bother? cygwin comes with make...
18:39:53Bob_CWhy bother with what?
18:40:11BdN3504i did not use cygwin, i used gcc which comes with mingw
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18:40:44BdN3504does cygwin produce windows executables?
18:40:54gevaertsBdN3504: stay with mingw
18:41:15Bob_CIn that case you need MSys which has shell tools: make etc
18:41:38dionoeacygwin can produce windows executables. just compile with -mno-cygwin
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18:42:18dionoea(or whatever the exact gcc option name is)
18:42:32Bob_CBut I can't build it on Unix either
18:42:54BdN3504hm, i don't get anything that works, neither with mingw nor with cygwin:
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18:44:57BdN3504cc1: error: unrecognized command line option "-Wno-pointer-sign" make: *** [database.o] Error 1
18:45:29Bob_CYeah, I get that too
18:45:33gevaertsthen edit the makefile
18:45:49BdN3504what shall i edit there? i have no clue
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18:47:16BdN3504this is what i get with -mno-cygwin btw : http://www.pastie.org/635230
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18:47:55gevaertsso what's wrong with that?
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18:48:32BdN3504i don't know, is it supposed to look like that?
18:48:34Bob_CYou won't be able to build it like that, tahts for sure
18:48:45BdN3504i get no output files
18:49:00Bob_CYou really need to use the makefile
18:49:05gevaertsyes you do. You may have to rename database to database.exe, but it is there
18:49:55Bob_CIgnore that, looking at wrong link :}
18:51:02gevaertsBdN3504: if you want to have that done automatically, edit the makefile and change "TARGET= database" to "TARGET= database.exe"
18:51:26Bob_CLooks like it built ok
18:54:33BdN3504http://www.pastie.org/635230
18:54:47BdN3504make: *** No rule to make target `database.exe', needed by `all'. Stop.
18:54:49BdN3504sorry
18:55:19 Quit explore ("Lost terminal")
18:55:41gevaertsah, yes. You also need to change the database: line a bit further down
18:55:48BdN3504that's what i get when i change to database.exe
18:55:50BdN3504ok
18:55:53BdN3504i go eat
18:55:55BdN3504brb
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19:00
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19:09:27Cortexelation*transplode*
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19:15:36Cortexelationdoes rockbox support real time DSP from microphone?
19:15:54Cortexelationas if to use a music player as an effects processor
19:16:12Cortexelationfor reactive music \m/
19:18:44gevaertsit doesn't, no
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19:21:47Cortexelationah! is it possible then, were I to make something?
19:24:33*bertrik thinks it's possible, at least in theory
19:25:29bertrikI don't know if all targets in rockbox allow simultaneous record and playback
19:26:56Cortexelationhmmm
19:30:06saratogaif you pick a device that has hardware capable of playback and record at the same time, and then wrote code to do it, you could
19:30:38saratogaa lot share DMA channels between ADC and DAC though
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19:32:55casainhoJdGordon: ping
19:33:01JdGordonburp
19:33:39casainhoJdGordon: hello :-) −− so, did you thought on buying that Mini2440 dev. board?
19:33:54JdGordontempted still...
19:34:41casainhoJdGordon: because Bob already got his board, and he is coding, and he already have kernel_init() and LCD running :-)
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19:35:03JdGordonhmm... what was the link?
19:35:27 Quit iJab (Client Quit)
19:35:49casainhoJdGordon: http://cgi.ebay.com/mini2440-S3C2440-ARM9-Board-3-5-TFT-LCD-Touch-Screen_W0QQitemZ120468760959QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1c0c7f697f&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
19:36:44casainhonow we were talking and looks like it will be easy and quick to work just with the SD Card. Is there any port that have perfect working SD Card drivers?
19:39:25JdGordonah screw it.. ok bought
19:41:22*domonoky also bought this board a few days ago :-)
19:41:53casainhooh, nice! so we are 4 developers now :-)
19:42:36Bagdermaybe time to start a rockbox wiki page for this hw?
19:43:50casainhothe actual code is here: http://lyre.hg.sourceforge.net/hgweb/lyre/lyre/
19:44:19casainhoand the project page here: http://lyre.sourceforge.net/
19:45:04Bagderas usual, I'd be interested in a patch against rockbox, not in a full copy of a tree
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19:45:35casainhoyes, but that's why we are using hg, as developers had advice us here on this channel
19:46:13Bagdersorry, I don't see how hg has anything to do with it, but it doesn't really matter
19:46:31casainhowe are trying to keep the hg repo in sync with Rockbox SVN, so when we want we will make that patch
19:46:47 Quit hd (Connection timed out)
19:47:39casainhoso, for now kernel_init() works but is not tested, I think Bob don't ahve as osciloscope to verify HZ tick
19:48:00casainhoand he tolds me that the LCD is near the Gigabeat LCd
19:49:16casainhowhen should we make a patch?
19:50:57Bagdercasainho: so is the previous lyre hw now abandoned?
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19:51:59casainhowith the AT91SAM? yes
19:52:36 Join funman [0] (n=fun@rockbox/developer/funman)
19:52:40casainhobecause no one can use it without making costum PCB −− it's a lot of trouble, that's why this actual board is almost perfect, it have all
19:53:15Bagderexcept ability to actually be a _portable_ player?
19:53:18casainhobut this board is for a kind of home/car Rockbox player
19:53:33casainhoyes :-)
19:53:36funmanFlynDice: do you need uSD tests with your last commit ?
19:53:49casainhobut we are still waiting for ARMopendous protable device
19:55:40Bagderthere are so many hws ...
19:55:49casainhoBagder: when should we make a pacth?
19:55:49BagderI meant that ARMopendous one
19:56:13casainhothe ARMopendous is for being a complete Open Hardware
19:56:21Bagderwhat exactly is the lyre name supposed to be?
19:56:26Bagderthe ARMopendous player?
19:56:30Bagderthe mini2440 player?
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19:57:02casainhowe will decide in future, after having it working. For now is lyre_proto2
19:57:28Bagderthe mini one is proto2? isn't it the third hw platform?
19:57:57casainhono, it's the second hardware, ARMopendous is not ready yet
19:58:26Bagderwell, I still don't quite understand what "lyre" is since its not about a specific hw...
19:58:32casainhothe guy at ARMopendous had problems with his 1st board version, mainly SDRAM routing problems
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19:59:06casainhoI think is about the idea of a costum Open Hardware that runs Rockbox
20:00
20:00:09JdGordon... this baord is not Open in the free speach form of the word
20:00:31*JdGordon checks CC... or beer either
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20:00:42Bagdercasainho: I still think you shouldn't call everything lyre, it makes things very hard to keep apart when talking
20:00:54Bagderbut that's me
20:01:10Bagderand as JdGordon says, that mini2440 isn't really that open, is it?
20:01:13casainhoJdGordon: yes, this Mini2440 is not Open Hardware, but is something that is available on market on a cheap price, with public schematics and all datasheets
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20:02:17casainhoI guess the only missing things to be Open Hardware are the source files for the schematics and board
20:03:59casainhoBob had the idea to buy this board and start working on it, and he calls to the board a Lyre proto, for me is ok, because the idea is the same
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20:05:20casainhothe only thing missing is later we can make our costum hardware based on that board, and I think is more a question of having money to invest on it, to contract some company to make it for us
20:05:52 Quit raphi ("leaving...")
20:05:53casainhoso, starting working using this board and call it Lyre prototype 2 is ok
20:06:15 Join JackWinter [0] (n=jack@85.93.206.119)
20:06:17casainhomaybe it will ever be a prototype...
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20:08:38JdGordonor maybe we just call it mini2440 and leave the marketable name to the marketing department if/when it ever gets mass built
20:09:42 Quit Topy (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:09:52BdN3504what do i have to change in makefile, to compile database.c properly? http://www.rockbox.org/irc/log-20090929#18:55:41
20:11:05casainhoJdGordon: yes. That board is called mini2440 over al internet
20:11:24JdGordonthen calling it that would seem to make alot of sense
20:12:54casainhoJdGordon: do you want write acess to hg on sourceforge?
20:13:13JdGordonno, I'm with Bagder... all code should be in the rockbox tree
20:13:37JdGordonand we now have 2 commiters so that shouldnt be difficult
20:14:16casainhoJdGordon: ok, so things changes now. That 2 commiters have Rockbox SVN write acess, me and Bob, we can commit pacthes?
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20:14:38JdGordonthats not up to me
20:14:49casainhoJdGordon: since Bob and me, we already made some work, would you like to use it?
20:14:53 Quit bubsy ("PARTY TIME, EXCELLENT! Party on, Wayne! Party on, Garth!")
20:15:00JdGordonyes
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20:15:18JdGordonanyway, I'm going on holiday for 2 weeks, so we can talk when i get back
20:15:24casainhook
20:15:41Bob_CWe should have it working by then ;)
20:15:51casainhobecause you can get our source without having wirte acess to it or I simple could give you write acess
20:16:04casainhoah, Bob, you are there :-)
20:16:18*Bob_C had to get beer
20:16:26tomersDoes anyone knows how to have Hebrew fonts on Rockbox? I remember they were removed from SVN a long time ago. Can Hebrew codes be added to the default font?
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20:16:50JdGordontomers: get any ttf or bdf and convert them
20:17:03JdGordonttf->bdf->fnt
20:17:23casainhoBob_C: did you read the domonoky also bought the board?
20:17:37Bob_Cyes I did
20:17:39tomersJdGordon: I want to have it added to the SVN, what is the best way to do it? Can it be added to the font used in the default theme?
20:17:46pixelmaI don't think there was anything removed from SVN
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20:18:13casainhodomonoky: do you want write acess to hg repo on Sourceforge?
20:18:20JdGordonthe fonts were renamed, I dont think any were actually deleted
20:18:20pixelmayou just need a font that supports hebrew characters
20:18:32JdGordonIIRC rasher has a table of which fonts have which glyfs
20:18:34tomerspixelma: I'll look for it and show you
20:19:04tomersJdGordon: Is there any wiki page with all this info?
20:19:12JdGordonrasher.dk/rockbox/fontstats/">http://rasher.dk/rockbox/fontstats/
20:19:12 Quit BdN3504 ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
20:19:18tomersThanks!
20:19:20rashertomers: the hebrew fonts were only removed because they were redundant, not out of any anti-hebrew sentiment :)
20:19:23domonokycasainho: when i get the board and start coding, maybe yes. but perhaps we should just put the code into rockbox svn when we have the first code running on mini2440
20:19:38rashertomers: they were basically a subset of other fonts
20:19:49JdGordonlooks like unifont is the only one with full hebrew support :/
20:20:05casainhodomonoky: correct, but if while that you want to work on hg sourceforege, as a kind of sandbox
20:20:45pixelmanimbus has hebrew characters too, and one size of helvetica
20:20:45casainhodomonoky: our idea was to working with hg to be able to make a patch for Rockbox
20:20:48domonokycasainho: i will ask you when i need it. thanks for the offer :-)
20:20:56rasherJdGordon: less than full is Good Enough for most things, iirc
20:21:01tomersJdGordon, rasher: So, do you think it needs fixing? What do you think I should do?
20:21:02casainhoI would like to know when we should make the first patch
20:21:12pixelmarasher has a nice statistic somewhere on his site
20:21:33JdGordonrasher: well hebrew only has 20 odd characters so if 5 are missing it can be useless :p
20:21:43Bob_CIt would be better for us to generate some patches earlier rather than later
20:21:53JdGordonyes it would
20:22:04casainhoJdGordon: yes, but when?
20:22:08domonokycasainho: i think making patches only makes sense, when the first code really runs on mini2440
20:22:15rasherJdGordon: But the unicode range has a lot more than those, which is why not having all of them isn't a problem, because it'll almost certainly have those
20:22:16tomerspixelma: JdGordon gave this link: rasher.dk/rockbox/fontstats/">http://rasher.dk/rockbox/fontstats/
20:22:27casainhodomonoky: ok, it runs, the show_logo() runs
20:22:31 Quit flydutch ("/* empty */")
20:22:36Bob_CRuns and plays audio, or just GUI?
20:22:57domonokycasainho: that sounds good for a start.. how is the target named currently in hg ?
20:22:59rasherJdGordon: ah, it's lots and lots of combining characters - http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U0590.pdf
20:23:17JdGordonAH
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20:23:29casainhodomonoky: lyre_proto2
20:23:41casainhobut so we can change to "mini2440", right Bob?
20:23:49JdGordonall those dots arnt actually needed so probably any with the grey on your site is enough
20:24:10domonokycasainho: i think, if we change the target name, we should do this before commiting a first patch to rockbox svn.
20:24:16rasherJdGordon: Yes indeed - that's what I was trying to say
20:24:22Bob_CI would prefer not to change names...
20:24:35tomersrasher: There are many redundant characters over there.
20:24:40Bob_Cbut if it has to be done...
20:25:12casainhoBob_C: but do you really think that is important to keep the word "lyre"? since this board is known as "mini2440" all over Internet?
20:25:19tomersrasher: Hebrew needs the following: אבגדהוזחטי›למנסעפצקרשתךםףץן
20:25:45CreposucreIs anyone at ease with keymap? I try to link some remote button codes to scroll through the main menu, but I can't get it to work
20:25:46JdGordonshow off :)
20:25:52*domonoky thinks mini2440 sounds much better as a target name. you will find the board under this name in the internet. so i would choose "mini2440" as target name and FriendlyARM as manufacturer :-)
20:25:58tomersrasher: About 27 characters minimum, but more can be added to add better Hebrew support ;-)
20:26:00Creposucrewhich is the context that I should use?
20:26:02Bob_CMy view is that names are not really important, but that changing things wastes time
20:26:36JdGordonhttp://www.rockbox.org/wiki/BuildNames is why the name is important
20:26:36rashertomers: most likely any font on my page that is grey will have all the proper characters
20:26:53casainhoBob_C: yeah... but I think will be the last name change.
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20:26:56rasherAnd the Rockbox font renderer doesn't properly do combining characters anyway
20:27:05rasherSo those aren't really interesting (for now, anyway)
20:27:14casainhodomonoky: so, we will commit the patch to flyspray
20:27:38Bob_CThe source tree does not follow the naming convention, and anyway the convention is inadequate
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20:29:25*JdGordon remembers that making the list view RTL was on his todo list
20:29:46funmanFlynDice: thanks A LOT, it's very nice to see the sansa ams approaching stable status
20:30:58amiconntomers: I'd like to add hebrew chars to rockfont-8. Do you think it's possible to make readable hebrew letters in 8x5 or 8x6 pixels (that already includes spacing)?
20:31:06BdN3504need help compiling the database tool from tools/database. edited the makefile to produce database.exe. further modifications are needed to compile, though.
20:31:23FlynDicefunman: just a drop in the bucket relatively speaking.... ;)
20:31:24BdN3504want to compile for windows from cygwin
20:31:44domonokyBob_C, casainho: whats the current status on the drivers for this mini2440 board ?
20:31:49rasheramiconn: 07-fixed has hebrew
20:31:53funmanFlynDice: perhaps, but not a cheap drop ;)
20:31:54tomersamiconn: I'll check
20:32:16casainhodomonoky: Bob can answer, I don't have my board yet.
20:32:20BdN3504i get this error after having changed makefile: make: *** No rule to make target `database.exe', needed by `all'. Stop.
20:32:20JdGordona few letters might be hard to read.. but probably doable
20:32:25amiconnrasher: Ah, good to know
20:32:31*amiconn wonders why he didn't check
20:32:35rasherAs does 08-fixed, but it's probably similar
20:33:18Bob_CI think we have the LCD ok, but I haven't any real testing. We still need SD and audio at least, and touch screen or keypad
20:33:26amiconnThose -fixed thingies are different style though, and iirc wider
20:33:55domonokyBdN3504: did you also change the target ? ie the "database:" line
20:34:25casainhoBob_C: and you didn't test yet the kernel tick? measuring with an oscilloscope, right?
20:34:34domonokyBob_C: nice.
20:34:54BdN3504domonoky: i tried to change it to database.exe: but that gave me errors again
20:35:00Bob_CI measured it with the Mark I Eyeball...
20:35:11domonokyBdN3504: can you pastebin the modified makefile ?
20:35:41BdN3504http://pastie.org/635436
20:35:59casainhoBob_C: so, kernel tick is ok? (sorry, I don0t know what is that eyeball)
20:36:29Bob_CI can test with a scope if you want better resolution
20:36:51***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:36:56amiconnAtm the database tool doesn't compile on linux either
20:37:15*domonoky would think the tick should be no problem, rockbox already runs on this cpu. so probably no unknowns there.
20:37:39domonokyBdN3504: and whats the exact error with this Makefile ?
20:38:25casainhoBob_C, domonoky So later I can measure with my scope when I get the board.
20:38:27amiconnhttp://rockbox.pastebin.ca/1584694
20:39:00BdN3504i get no database.exe output file bu this: http://pastie.org/635442
20:39:00casainhodomonoky: but I think mini2440 have a different clock timing... 400MHz (?)
20:39:00Bob_CIs it true sleep relies on the tick?
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20:40:28domonokycasainho: that the internal clock, so unless it has a differnt external oszillator, rockboxs kernel code should "just work", and clock it at what ever rockbox uses on that cpu.
20:43:23domonokyamiconn: can you test the current released voice file on your archos recorder ? (according to RockboxTesting you have one:-) )
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20:43:38tomersrasher: Can you add Hebrew to 12-Adobe-Helvetica ?
20:44:33rashertomers: I'd have to draw some
20:44:47rasherI'm quite sure the original font didn't have it
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20:46:34ZagorBob_C: yes, sleep() is tick based
20:49:46BdN3504domonoky: can yOu help me somehow?
20:50:02domonokyBob_C: yes its true. sleep() depends on the sheduler which needs the tick to work correctly.
20:50:44domonokyBdN3504: i dont now how. your last pastebin contained no errors, so that should have produces the database.exe
20:51:29BdN3504domonoky: how can i chek if i have sdl installed? it depends on that right?
20:52:09domonokyBdN3504: building would fail if it would need SDL and you dont have it.
20:52:22BdN3504hm
20:52:30BdN3504if i only type make, i get
20:52:42bertriksdl-config should exist
20:52:52BdN3504cc1: error: unrecognized command line option "-Wno-pointer-sign"
20:53:43BdN3504so i use make -mno-cygwin but that gives me the output i posted above. shall i simply redirect that output to > database.exe?
20:54:01domonokyno
20:54:44domonokyadd -mno-cygwin to CFLAGS in the makefile.
20:55:26BdN3504shall i replace that wno-pointer-sign line?
20:55:35domonokybut i dont know if that helps. directing the compiler output info into a textfile is certanly not correct.
20:55:53domonokyjust append the option.
20:56:00BdN3504lol yeah...
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20:59:19amiconndomonoky: No need to test - the file is too big
20:59:41amiconn(the limit depends somewhat on the settings though)
21:00
21:00:18BdN3504appending the option gives me "cc1: error: unrecognized command line option "-Wno-pointer-sign". if i replace the wno-pointer part i get this with make: http://pastie.org/635475
21:01:06domonokyamiconn: so we should try to release new, smaller, voicefiles for the recoders :-)
21:01:26amiconnThe 3 Recorders and Ondio FM seem to be to big
21:01:39amiconn*too too
21:03:04amiconnIt might be possible to use them, if you set all those various limits to minimum, but that's not very useful
21:03:09Zagorwe need to fix the build system to detect that
21:03:43amiconnZagor: One problem is to select the limit, as it depends on settings
21:03:51Zagoryes
21:04:44amiconnMy own voice files are ~1.1MB, the released ones are >1.3MB
21:05:03amiconnHow were they generated?
21:06:40Zagorwith tools/release/voices.pl
21:06:51amiconnHmm, festival, default settings
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21:53:17casainhodomonoky: http://lyre.sourceforge.net/?q=content/news-lyre-mini2440-prototype
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21:53:36casainhoJdGordon: see the same link I sent to domonoky :-)
21:53:52casainhoit's an image of Rockbox logo on the LCD :-)
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22:02:11domonokycasainho: nice !
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22:08:40casainhodomonoky: I hope to receive my board this week. I must go now, bye bye
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22:36:53***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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22:56:51Bagderthere's a big fpga on that board
22:57:01Bagderis that open too?
22:59:01 Quit petur (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:59:07Zagorit is strangely not mentioned on the product page
22:59:32BagderI found it trying to figure out what codec/dac's on it
23:00
23:00:02Bagderbut maybe the SoC has an internal?
23:00:25Zagorno I mean the xilinx is visible on the board, but not mentioned in the text
23:00:30Bagderyeah
23:00:44Bagderand open fpgas is not really common
23:01:01Bagderand certainly not the tools to work with them
23:03:54tomersRegarding Hebrew 8-pixel font, I found GPLv3 font over here: http://freshmeat.net/projects/liquid-fonts - It is the Theiling Liquid Mean font in the Liquid font family
23:04:35tomersThe font and other sources available to download here: http://www.theiling.de/projects/liquid.html#download
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23:05:54funmantomers: rockbox is "gplv2 or later", so i don't know if gplv3 code is ok
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23:08:42tomersfunman: I am not an expert, but I guess it should. Also, I guess 'GPLv3' is contained in 'GPLv2 or later' but I am not an expert for this matter. Also, IP in the form of a font might have no relevance for the differences between the two licenses...
23:11:42 Quit mkoenig (Remote closed the connection)
23:12:03tomers\me going to sleep
23:12:39*tomers Going to sleep
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23:15:05ZagorBagder: the fpga is on the optional vga board
23:15:12Bagderaha
23:17:42Bob_Cit uses UDA1341TS btw
23:18:28funmantomers: if you distribute binaries made of "gplv2 and later" and gplv3 code, you have to redistribute the resulting binary as gplv3
23:18:54Bagderah and the iriver h300 has a UDA1380TT
23:20:00ZagorBob_C: regarding wear leveling, one shortcut would be to treat the nand as essentially read-only during normal use and write all temporary files to the SD card
23:20:50Bagderanother would be to base it on something like yaffs
23:21:06Zagoryes but that makes usb-storage messy
23:21:17Bagderoh right
23:21:23Bagderand it's probably too linuxish anyway
23:21:28mcuelenaereweren't there some FTL's in Linux implemented?
23:21:48Zagormcuelenaere: only heavily patented ones
23:21:48mcuelenaereah
23:21:53mcuelenaereand we care about patents, do we?
23:22:02Zagorno comment :)
23:23:14Bagderin all the cases I've worked with fses directly on flash, we've used a fs that does it: jffs2 for nor, or yaffs for nand etc.
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23:23:41Bagderbut in this case we want FAT with a wear leveling underneath
23:24:28Bob_CI looked into Yaffs but Unix support requires the user to rebuild kernel, which is pretty niche
23:24:55Galoiswear leveling is only about half as efficient as raw management, because the hardware wear leveler can't tell the difference between data blocks vs. deleted blocks that still have unimportant data on them
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23:25:16ZagorGalois: we have no hardware wear leveler. this is a raw nand flash.
23:25:20BagderBob_C: I doubt most people using yaffs consider rebuilding the kernel an issue
23:25:52Galoisyay. raw is good.
23:26:25domonokydont we already have some nand-wearleveling code in rockbox from other targets?
23:26:26n1sgood *if* you want to do your own wear leveling
23:26:29ZagorGalois: yes, except the little fact that FAT writes very often to the same sectors (the fat) which wears our raw flashes very fast
23:26:41mcuelenaeredomonoky: yes, the TCC ones
23:26:45Bagderdomonoky: we do, yes. the D2 has some
23:27:01bertrikwe have a NAND/FTL expert in this channel, I think it was Torne
23:27:21 Quit n1s ("Lmnar")
23:27:24*Bagder also votes for Torne to write all the wear leveling code ;-)
23:27:47domonokyas there is no prexisting system on this target, we could just use the best one we already have in rockbox (if we have one which is complete)
23:28:33Bagderright, but we also have the option to use the best one we can think of or read up about etc
23:28:51 Part pyro_maniac
23:29:12domonokytrue, but that is probably more work..
23:29:27Bob_Ctbh, I decided NAND support was a can of worms inside another can of worms
23:29:44domonokySD is much easier :-)
23:30:05Zagoryeah, skipping the nand altogether is definitely an easier first step
23:30:23 Join HBK [0] (n=hbk@rrcs-97-77-51-170.sw.biz.rr.com)
23:30:31Zagorjust boot from the nor onto the sd card
23:30:34 Quit stripwax ("http://miranda-im.org")
23:31:15FlynDiceCan someone try to explain to me what exactly a buffer underrun is? I'm copying between an internal SD and uSD on an e280V2. Is the controller running out of data to send to the card?
23:32:21 Join stripwax [0] (n=Miranda@87-194-34-169.bethere.co.uk)
23:32:30JdGordonyeah, the buffer is emptying faster than it is getting filled
23:32:48domonokyFlynDice: that probably means the fifo to the sd controller is running out of data. rockbox isnt delivering data fast enough..
23:34:23FlynDiceThanks, probably expected with the internal running 1 bit wide and the uSD running 4 bits wide...
23:35:34 Quit HBK ()
23:36:12 Quit tomers (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
23:38:15funmanFlynDice: yeah that's it, the buffer is empty (not filled fast enough)
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23:43:17 Join safetydan [0] (n=deverton@rockbox/developer/safetydan)
23:54:24 Quit evilnick ("Page closed")
23:54:58 Join HBK [0] (n=hbk@rrcs-97-77-51-170.sw.biz.rr.com)
23:55:44 Quit uflops (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:55:51 Quit domonoky (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:58:05 Quit bertrik ("De groeten")

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