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#rockbox log for 2009-09-30

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00:29:51Strathobo give up? i havn't seen him in the logs for a couple months.
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02:00
02:01:28LloreanMaybe we need some sort of voice fail-safe. A string in the voice file that simply says "Voice too large" that is always loaded even if the rest of the voice won't fit, so people know that voice is working, but the file is the problem.
02:02:19rasherZagor: Going to a non-existant wiki page gives 404 rather than the expected "search or create the page" page
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02:42:31enthdegreeHey, I'm trying to track down a c250v1, no luck. Has anyone here had any experience in tracking one down, good websites to try, etc?
02:42:53JdGordoneek... why?
02:43:06JdGordonthe c250 isnt exactly the best target..
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02:45:01enthdegreeForm factor, mostly. :P
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02:46:24enthdegreeIt probably won't play video great, and it ~is~ an old device. Is there anything better you can think of?
02:50:51enthdegreedrat, had to reconnect, srry. What's the problem with rockbox on a c200?
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02:55:45sjhafter running ipodpatcher on a newly formatted ipod video (5th gen) trying to get 3.4 to boot, I get an error can't load rockbox.ipod file not found. So I tried copying it from the .rockbox directory to the root filesystem (now in both places) and it still gives me this error... any idea where else it may look for it?
03:00
03:00:47saratogasjh: that usually means you didn't actually create the right folder, often because the zip program you used renamed some of the files as you unzipped them
03:00:47krazykitit looks for it in the .rockbox directory.
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03:01:55sjhokay, I will try unzip on the filesystem and cp -rv accross
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03:07:22Lloreansjh: You should have rockbox.ipod in the .rockbox folder (note the . ) and the .rockbox folder in the root of the player's drive.
03:07:41LloreanI have seen where it won't find rockbox.ipod if the partition is the wrong format or *possible* set as the wrong type, but the right format.
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03:10:10sjhhmm maybe I need to format the parition with 2048 byte sectors
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03:27:52sjhhmm still cant find it after reformatting and copying the .rockbx directory back on. It says bootloader version 3.0 is there one newer?
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08:33:51sjhfinally managed to find a windows machine somewhere at work and installed itunes on it and reformatted the ipod from there, rockbox 3.4 has now installed sucessfully and works. woohoo
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09:00
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09:06:16Zagoris there any useful content on the user mailing list anymore? every time I look there's another flame war.
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09:06:25Zagors/user/non-dev/
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09:17:10swiftkickgreetings, will rockbox support sansa V2 (V03) hardware?
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09:19:02LloreanZagor: Well it started out good with us finding out the voice file may be too big. Sadly, I don't know if anyone with the hardware has actually tested it yet. They seemed to prefer to complain about the fact that it got released not working than to find out if that's even what's wrong.
09:19:19LloreanI do apologize for dragging it further off topic though.
09:22:10swiftkicki realize the manual says rockbox doesn't support the e200 V2 (v03) hardware yet. so what i'm asking is, will it evar?
09:22:39swiftkickdoes anyone care that every single last supported player is out of production? =)
09:22:41swiftkickwhats the best player i can actuall find, new on the shelf, that doesnt have a clunky mechanical hard drive for storage?
09:22:53Zagorswiftkick: we are working on sansa ams, yes
09:23:09swiftkickoh yeah, and also one that doesnt somehow support steve jobs in any way shape or form? kthx =)
09:23:30Lloreanswiftkick: This channel is for questions about Rockbox. "What non-Rockbox player should I get?" doesn't really belong here.
09:23:59tomersI have a Fuze which works good enough for me. I am very satisfied from it. It is v1, though
09:24:02Zagorof course we care. but new players normally have a one-year life span, and a port often takes more than that
09:24:27swiftkickZagor: excellent. i just bought one on the off chance it would be the older supported hardware version. it wasn't ;-(
09:24:33swiftkickLlorean: you misunderstand. I was asking, what is the best player that will run rockbox =)
09:24:56Zagorswiftkick: none new on the shelf
09:25:20swiftkickLlorean: and i dont want hard drives or steve jobs in my player =)
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09:27:06swiftkicktomers: my phone is an HTC fuze.
09:27:11swiftkickand i often wish i could flash its firmware into something more useful, such as gaming console.
09:27:16swiftkickor use the built in level and orientation sensors to cheat at roulette.
09:27:59swiftkicki wanted the sansa because its got flash memory expandability
09:28:01Lloreanswiftkick: He's referring to the Sandisk Fuze.
09:29:04pixelmaLlorean: you don't need to test the voice file - just look at its size and the amount of available RAM; amiconn said yesterday that it was too big (already for V1 Recorder, so FM/V2 Recorder even more and probably for the OndioFM as well
09:29:09swiftkickLlorean: i know. Those dont have a flash memory slot tho do they?
09:29:27Lloreanswiftkick: If you knew, why did you ramble about cellphones? Please, keep the subject to Rockbox stuff.
09:29:44pixelmabtw. I can't remember that this was "fixed" for any release before where the problem already occured
09:30:18Lloreanpixelma: Doesn't the amount of available RAM differ somewhat depending on what options you've set? Even if we get it down enough, it might not work for some people who've set their files-in-folder limit too high
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09:33:20pixelmatrue, but if it's already over a good amount (and I don't think amiconn has RAM eating options enabled). You can't take care of everything but I guess it should be down as much as the default settings need
09:34:19Lloreanpixelma: Yeah, voice should play immediately after the device is reset.
09:35:19LloreanIt's a bit unfortunate that it fails to "silence" rather than some fallback.
09:37:17swiftkickLlorean: first you misunderstood that I *am* asking about rockbox compatible players. Now you chastise me for two sentences of lighthearted banter about another device that just happens to also play mp3s and get firmware upgrades. You must be the channel's resident curmudgeon, in addition to needing a refresher in english comprehension.
09:38:18Lloreanswiftkick: I'm sorry, English comprehension? You admitted you knew every single supported player was out of production, then asked for one you could find new on shelves. This *strongly* suggests you're asking about something other than a supported player.
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09:38:36LloreanIt's rare to find out of production devices new on shelves.
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09:38:53LloreanEspecially in the realm of consumer electronics where production usually ends because one model is being supplanted by a newer one.
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09:39:32swiftkickActually I was hoping someone could suggest a vendor that still sold an older one, or perhaps a different model that supported any decent memory card format
09:39:47swiftkickyou know sometimes sleepy vendors have a cache of an older model
09:39:52swiftkickuntil the community finds out
09:41:31LloreanSee, even now you've got that "or perhaps a different model" that suggests you're also looking for non-Rockbox players.
09:41:58LloreanMy point was simply that we strongly encourage you to keep off-topic chatter to the other channels on the network including the one specifically mentioned in the topic for offtopic stuff.
09:42:41AlexPswiftkick: Please don't attack people for asking you to follow the guidelines - the reason they are there is that lots of people read the logs and they don't want to have to wade through what would be a lot of noise if everyone just typed two lines of off-topic banter
09:42:45swiftkickim not sure how you could think that, given that this is the rockbox channel, but on the other hand, if someone did recommend a non-rockbox player that fit my needs, and thus ended this conversation about six of these pointless sentences earlier, would that have been a bad thing?
09:43:07AlexPPlease let's just all stop now, and stick on topic. Cheers :)
09:43:39Zagorswiftkick: froobi.com had some refurbished sansas but they are sold out since long
09:44:08AlexPI don't think you'll find any of the fully supported players new (or even refurbished these days)
09:44:26AlexPSome of the in progress ones are still available, but there are no ETAs
09:44:56KippersHello all, I'm having some issues playing back some ogg files with rockbox on an iAudio X5
09:45:15Zagoroh, they actually have c240 in stock
09:45:30KippersI can play most ogg files on my player w/rockbox, and I can play the particular ones that don't work elsewhere
09:45:40AlexPZagor: Heh, I take it all back
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09:46:12AlexPKippers: Do you know if they were encoded with a different encoder?
09:46:15swiftkickalexp: apologies, i'm not trying to attack, its just late, and i am new here, no hard feelings
09:46:32AlexPswiftkick: Here neither :)
09:47:34AlexPKippers: It'll probably come to having someone look at one to see what the issue is
09:47:38swiftkickZagor: thanks for the link, i am averse to buying refurbs tho
09:48:29AlexPswiftkick: They are really your only option if you want a fully supported one. None of them are available new (save if the odd one gets found in a stock room somewhere, something like that)
09:48:30Zagorswiftkick: well your choice is refurbished or ebay.
09:49:10KippersYeah. I just opened one that doesn't work and one that does in a hex editor to see if there are any obvious differences with tags etc. They both say "Xiph.org I 20070622", which looks kind of like the encoder version to me.
09:49:39pixelmaKippers: the encoding might be interesting and if they have "unusual" tags
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09:53:27Kippersokay, one seems to have ID3 tags, and the other doesn't
09:53:44sjhKippers: if the ogg files have any id3 or id3v2 tags they will probably not play, ogg/vorbis tags are fine though
09:54:08sjhfind -name '*.ogg' -print0 | xargs -0 id3v2 -D
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09:55:23sqglUsing Beta version of RB. Last night I used sleeper timer to shutdown. Now my mp3 files are invisible.
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09:55:48sqglSimilar thing has happened before but can't recall what caused it.
09:55:58AlexP_sqgl: Check the show files setting
09:56:09sqglok
09:56:22sqgltho i did not change it
09:56:58sqglgenius!
09:57:10sqglIt had flipped to show playlists.
09:57:13KippersYeah, I think the id3 tags are the issue
09:57:38sqglAlexP_, thanks
09:57:45AlexP_sqgl: No worries
09:57:52sqglA known issue?
09:57:59sqglOr should I document it in forums?
09:58:00AlexP_Kippers: If you have ID3 tags on ogg, then that is a problem
09:58:08AlexP_Kippers: They should be vorbis comments
09:58:30AlexP_sqgl: That is changes itself, no; that people accidently change it, yes :)
09:58:38AlexP_s/is/it/
09:59:16sqglOK well I better report it then. I can't imagine rolling over in my sleep before it shutdown and pressing the right combination.
09:59:28AlexP_You never know
09:59:33sqgltrue
09:59:43AlexP_This is the first time anyone has said that it did it itself to my knowledge
09:59:49sqglI will wait to see if it happens again (without the sleep factor)
09:59:55AlexP_That'd be good
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10:00:02sqglciao
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10:00:07AlexP_cheerio
10:06:59Kipperssorted, thanks everyone
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10:42:51amiconnLlorean: The Recorder v1 voice file is too big even with my settings - and I use limits which are *lower* than the defaults
10:43:21amiconnIt's true that the max possible voice size varies though - we need to settle for a sane limit
10:44:06amiconnThere are two ways to make the file smaller: (1) higher tts speed, or (2) more compression
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10:59:17pixelmawe could also try differnet TTSs/voices. I noticed when making a voice file with espeak that I get bigger voice files too and I think it's related to the voice being a bit more "noisy" and hence doesn't compress as well, especially with MP3. If we are lucky we could find something better - though that will need quite some time of test and trial...
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11:07:04ED_209hey, I have an iriver h300 and got a 2200mAh cameron sino battery about 2 years ago, I've used it pretty extensively since then
11:07:37ED_209now I've got a weird problem where when I charge it, it'll charge up fully, but if I wait a few hours tehn turn it on it's down to like 8% or so, then slowly counts up to about 79% as I'm using it
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11:08:23ED_209then it'll drop back down to almost zero the next time I turn it on, then slowly count up to a higher battery percentage... it does this every time.
11:08:48ED_209is it possible the charging... circuit or whatever is damaged or is this a sign that the battery is poked?
11:09:55ED_209I'm really hoping it's the battery... it's been working fine up until a few weeks ago when it started doing this
11:11:21Zagorit could be the battery. the boot surge causing a voltage drop which then gradually recovers.
11:11:38ED_209I don't know how lithium polymer batteries work but if I charge it fully, it'll show a full charge immediately after I unplug it, but if I leave it turned off for a few hours and turn it on it'll be drastically lower, but then will count up from 8% to about 79%... and it loses charge when it's turned off too
11:12:12ED_209it's never done this before, the unit has been working fine until about 5 weeks ago when it was doing this thing
11:12:52Zagorthere's really no other way to find out than trying another battery
11:13:02ED_209:/
11:13:47Zagorafter two years the battery is likely quite aged/worn anyway. and the alternative is trying another player, which is not exactly a simple option either.
11:14:00ED_209it's not an option because I don't have another player
11:14:27ED_209and I had to grind out the back of the metal casing with a dremel to get this larger battery to fit without being crushed
11:15:16ED_209so you'd expect a cameron sino battery to fail after 2 years?
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11:16:25ED_209it still works... just not like it's supposed to. I just hope it's not the iriver which is faulty
11:17:09Zagorwell if it's not a problem then keep using it until it stops working
11:17:10ED_209I freakin pray it's the battery
11:17:50ED_209it is a problem, at startup the battery reads almost flat, then as I'm using it, the battery will slowly show a higher voltage up to a certain point
11:18:23ED_209are there any h300 users who may be in here later that might know a lot about this player?
11:18:34Zagorwell you have do decide if it's annoying enough to buy a new battery
11:18:48ED_209if a new battery will fix it I'll order one right now
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11:32:49ED_209ok I ordered a battery
11:32:58ED_209I hope this works.
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11:50:15CIA-43New commit by 03tomers (r22851): Added myself to the list of committers.
11:52:52rasher\o/
11:56:30tomersI wonder why adding myself to the committers list changes had size delta effect on some targets (R22851: http://build.rockbox.org/dev.cgi)
12:00
12:00:18AlexP_tomers: It always fluctuates a small amount like that, don't worry about it
12:00:24AlexP_tomers: And welcome :)
12:00:35tomersAlexP_: Thanks :-)
12:00:40rashertomers: Different hosts building give small differences. Welcome aboard
12:01:17tomersrasher: Thanks! Going to commit "FS #10468 - USB HID: Show keypad mode on screen" now...
12:03:25gevaertstomers: welcome!
12:04:15tomersgevaerts: Thank you Frank!
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12:06:06CIA-43New commit by 03tomers (r22852): Commit "FS #10468 - USB HID: Show keypad mode on screen"
12:06:44*tomers Waiting for the reds of my first commit... And the size deltas...
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12:17:31robin0800tomers: works here sansa c240
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12:27:06casainhohello
12:27:31casainhoanyone seing kugel here? I am being looking for him on last days but I cond't see him here...
12:32:23CIA-43New commit by 03tomers (r22853): Fix red of r22852
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12:51:11CIA-43New commit by 03tomers (r22854): Fix red - Fix mr100 remote keymap
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12:57:26tomersThose who use RB's USB stack, please test the new feature just added (USB keypad mode)
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13:13:23dionoeahum, why does configure check for the crosscompilation stuff when we ask to build the manual?
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13:21:51gevaertstomers: the red delta for non-software-usb targets seems to come from the extra language strings. I'm not too familiar with that area, but there is the "usbstack" feature in apps/features that you could probably use to get those out again
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14:04:09CIA-43New commit by 03tomers (r22855): - Added USB HID documentation to the mr100 manual ...
14:11:00tomersgevaerts: I'll try that
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14:41:12CIA-43New commit by 03tomers (r22856): Fix delta in targets without HAVE_USBSTACK and USE_ROCKBOX_USB caused by ...
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14:51:55casainhohello everyone :-)
14:52:41Bob_Chi all, we want to submit a patch for the Lyre proto2 target.
14:53:22Bob_CIt might be s stupid question, but does our new port need to build? We only have a bootloader so far.
14:54:04funmanno you can submit the patch only for the bootloader
14:54:20casainhofunman: but the bootloader must build correctly?
14:54:33casainho(even if empty stubs?)
14:54:43funmansure
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14:55:27Bob_COk, I will make sure it builds
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14:55:34kkurbjuncasainho: are you using crt0.s from the gigabeat f/x?
14:56:04casainhokkurbjun: yes, we are using the same, but with #ifdefs
14:56:35CIA-43New commit by 03tomers (r22857): FS #10122 - Fix wrong format type of logf functions in speex.c
14:56:53kkurbjunmost of it would be the same, the main part that you'll have to change is the memory initialization
14:57:28funmanthis part could be moved out of crt0.S if it's big
14:57:58kkurbjunif possible it would be good to break that out into a separate function/branch call
14:58:13Bob_CThere is also some stuff which seems specific to Gigabeat which I have also made conditional. But 60-70% is the same
14:59:27kkurbjunthe only other thing that would b especific is the lcd stuff and the button checks which is minor
15:00
15:00:24kkurbjunthe clock initialization could stay the same, but it looks like your target has a faster speed grade part
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15:02:12kkurbjunwhat size is the flash on your player
15:02:25tomersgevaerts: Something is screwed up on your build server. Notice the red cause by r22856
15:02:26kkurbjunyou could keep the flash checks the same too
15:02:30Torneis the onda vx777le the same hardware as the in-progress onda targets?
15:03:07gevaertstomers: I've seen that before, also on another server. Let's try blaming Zagor...
15:03:27tomers:-)
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15:06:33*gevaerts wonders if this could be a bug in the dependencies that makes -j building not always work properly
15:07:26pyro_maniacfunman: i worked a bit on yh920 battery bench but i would like to ask kugel for his calculations.
15:07:41Bob_CWe have 2MB NOR (for bootloader) and 128MB NAND (no use yet)
15:08:36funmanpyro_maniac: i think the problem is we do not calculate correctly the voltage from the raw ADC read
15:09:22pyro_maniacoh realy
15:09:36pyro_maniachave you an idea about it?
15:09:52funmanone needs to read the OF code, i think low_light just did that
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15:11:21pyro_maniacok so we have to wait again :)
15:12:15Zagorgevaerts: I don't see how that would give this effect. if lang.h does not exist yet, it won't just complain about a single define
15:14:23gevaertsZagor: my theory is more that the dependencies that lead to lang.h are incomplete, not the ones after that
15:14:51Zagorhmm?
15:19:48gevaertsI mean, lang.h gets generated based on english.lang and features, right? What if features isn't complete yet when this is done?
15:19:51tomersI've noticed that when logging is enabled, some targets gets red and yellows (c100, h100)
15:20:06*gevaerts may be totally wrong here of course
15:20:13tomersShouldn't we add logf() support in the build system?
15:21:39Zagortomers: isn't it already?
15:21:58tomersZagor: Actually, I don't know...
15:22:17tomersBut still, c100 can't build with logf() support enabled
15:22:33Zagortomers: tools/configure can enable it in the (A)dvanced options
15:22:54pixelmatomers: if you have usb_hid in the languages' feature you don't need a seperate UseOption in the platform file for the manual
15:23:10pixelmafeature.txt I mean
15:23:16tomersZagor: I wasn't clear enough... I *enabled* logf() support using tools/configure, but then c100 don't compile!
15:23:47tomerspixelma: Thanks. I'll fix this
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15:29:14Zagortomers: I get the same error with and without logf for c100
15:29:44tomersZagor: mmm... I'll check it
15:30:57tomersZagor: Yes, the c100 is not even in the build-system. But notice the warning on h100 with logf() enabled, which doesn't show of course in the build system
15:31:46Zagorwhich warning would that be? I get *exactly* the same result with and without logf
15:32:09Zagoroh, h100. sorry.
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15:37:45gevaertsZagor: the exact build errors can be reproduced by changing $(BUILDDIR)/apps/features and removing soft_shutdown and charging there. I don't understand how that can happen though
15:38:09Zagorgevaerts: nice catch. and strange...
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15:57:27robin0800Whats the easiest way to change a wps on the theme site see http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=22825.0 for details of problem
15:58:20AlexP_robin0800: Ask an admin to delete it for you
15:58:42robin0800AlexP_: Could you?
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15:59:28AlexP_robin0800: Yes, but not for a a couple of hours - PM me (on the forums) the link and I'll do it when I get back
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16:00:02robin0800AlexP_: Thanks
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16:07:19Bob_Cour Lyre proto2 bootloader now builds and runs ok (as far as logo screen), is there anything else we should do before submitting our patch?
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16:12:18ZagorBob_C: no. just upload it to flyspray.
16:12:52Bob_CGreat will do
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16:16:51CIA-43New commit by 03tomers (r22858): Since we have usb_hid in feature.txt we don't need a seperate UseOption in the ...
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16:22:44tomersDOes somebody knows how unstable is the Fuze's USB stack? I want to try using it for testing the USB HID feature, but I'm afraid :-)
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16:26:51gevaertstomers: as far as I know nobody has written actual data transfer code yet
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16:27:33tomersgevaerts: Oh, ok. What is the USB controller on this platform? Do we have the specs?
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16:28:38gevaertsthe SansaAMS wiki page has some info. We have a strong suspicion that it's the same controller as one for which we did find specs
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16:30:04Zagorvoice for clip will be fun... :-)
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16:52:05casainho_There is a new patch for adding Lyre Mini2440 target on Rockbox: FS #10627
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17:00:15ZagorBob_C, casainho: I changed the filename to .patch so it gets the automatic diffstat display
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17:00:52Bob_CZagor: thanks I overlooked that
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17:03:26ED_209hey
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17:03:30ED_209are there any h300 users here
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17:03:56ED_209I have this weird battery issue, and I'm wondering if the battery itself is failing or my iriver is failing
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17:06:41amiconn(regarding hwcodec voice file sizes) As for (2), we're already using max. compression (-V9.9999). In order to compress more we'd need to lower the sample rate. Right now we're using 12kHz. 11.025 kHz should be avoided due to MAS3507D bugs, so that'd mean 8kHz, which doesn't sound nice
17:07:29amiconnIt would be useful to know which lame version is installed on the server which is used to build the voices
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17:14:47BagderLAME 32bits version 3.98.2
17:15:03Bagder32bits?
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17:23:25swiftkickso is anyone actively working on the e200V2 Sansa AMS USB issue?
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18:14:50robin0800ping AlexP
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18:33:02AlexProbin0800: hi
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18:37:13***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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18:49:32Bob_CWould anyone object if we renamed the "lyre_proto2" port to be "mini2440"?
18:50:05 Join funman [0] (n=fun@rockbox/developer/funman)
18:50:39casainho_Bob_C: refers to FS# 10627
18:51:05casainho_Bob_C is referring of FS# 10627
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18:52:01casainho_domonoky: you bought the same board, what you think?
18:52:30bluebrothertomers: what has a wrong keymap entry for blackjack in the manual to do with usb?
18:52:31domonokyyes naming the port "mini2440" would be good i think.
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18:53:12bluebrotherseparate things should really go into separate commits
18:55:44domonokycasainho_: also the patch could need some cleanup. for example button-target still contains gigabeat string.
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18:56:56domonokyand the lcd driver contains ifdefs for gigabeat and lyre_proto2 but it is a new file ? If they are very similar, we should reuse the gigabeat lcd file (maybe move it a bit up in the target tree)
18:56:59casainho_domonoky: ok, Bob is taking care of the patch, will take care of that lost string
18:57:42domonokyalso there is a new kernel-lyre_proto2.c cant we reuse the gigabeat one ?
18:58:45funmanif µSD access on Sansa AMS is really fixed by r22850, what else is needed for stable status ?
18:59:04saratogafunman: its still overclocked isn't it?
18:59:05funmanThere's no recording, occasional glitches in LCD display, and no manual
18:59:09HillshumThe manual?
18:59:12funmansaratoga: yeah
18:59:21Hillshumrecording's not needed
18:59:38saratogafunman: are the lcd glitches fixed with bertriks imrpvoements?
18:59:53funmansaratoga: perhaps, i didn't check (mpegplayer is a fine stress test though)
19:00
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19:00:24saratogai think we should make the fuze stable whenever the uSD clock issue is fixed
19:00:41saratogatheres really no hurry anyway
19:00:47funmanwhat do you fear : breaking µSD cards ?
19:00:54Bob_CWe copied the gigabeat files, they are included to allow the bootloader to build. They have not been fully ported yet (or even looked at). The lcd has a lot of SPI stuff which I think is not relevant to mini2440
19:01:09saratogafunman: well running the sd cards out of spec seems like an unstable sort of thing
19:01:19saratogai don't think you'll break them but theres some risk of data corruption
19:01:24saratogaIMO a stable device shouldn't have that
19:01:34Bob_CIf sharing source is ok, that's fine, I just can't test on Gigabeat
19:01:39funmanrisk of data corruption can be measured with test_disk
19:02:20saratogafunman: yeah but its entirely dependent on the quality of the individual sd card NAND chips
19:02:47funmanwe have already some variety of µSD cards among interested testers
19:03:15funmanI remember you had measured the clock frequency when using the OF and it was in the specification
19:03:21saratogawell if it really doesn't seem to matter i'm fine with it but i'd still rather wait a while to be sure
19:03:26saratogayeah the OF clocked my card quite low
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19:03:32saratogaI think it was only 15MHz or something like that
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19:03:55saratogawhich is why i'm a little concerned about us using 62MHz
19:04:08AlexPfunman: Which ams sansas are you referring to?
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19:04:26HillshumAlexP: the 2 with uSD slots?
19:04:33saratogaat this point i'm more interested in getting the clip "unstable"
19:04:37AlexPHillshum: Which are?
19:04:51funmanAlexP: the ones with µSD slot (fuzev1/e200v2)
19:04:51saratogai want to release test builds soon with my updated "logf to disk" patch
19:05:10saratogaso i can see whats going on when it deadlocks for different people
19:05:18AlexPfunman: The e200 manual should be pretty easy, just different install instructions pretty much
19:05:22funmanc200v2 has a µSD slot also, but is affected by the playback bug of clip/m200v4
19:05:45AlexPI'll have a look at it
19:05:58saratogaalso I keep meaning to ask abotu using some of the rockbox fund money or google money to send mt a clip+ or clipv2
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19:06:11saratogai think he would be interested in working on a port
19:06:12AlexPI can't see an issue there
19:06:28funmani can buy clipv1 1GB for €35
19:06:43saratogawhat about a v2?
19:06:47funmanoops i meant v2
19:06:48saratoga(or plus)
19:06:50saratogaok
19:06:55AlexPI'd love a clip+ port
19:06:55funmani didn't see clip+ yet
19:07:09AlexPThe addition of uSD is just groovy
19:07:21domonokyBob_C: yes, sharing code is recommended if the code is similar. And i can understand you just copied the files to get it running. but it should be cleaned-up before commiting.
19:08:02casainho_Bob_C: make empty stubs on that file!
19:08:20funmani still see glitches on fuze's lcd
19:08:32Bob_CSo it doesn't matter if I can't verify the Gigabeat ports - someone can do that?
19:08:56AlexPYes, ask for a tester here when ready
19:09:29funmanµSD seems stable so far here
19:09:31domonokyBob_C: i think we will find some testers with gigabeat to verify that you didnt broke anything without problems.
19:10:33domonokyBob_C: about code sharing, see for example firmware\target\arm\lcd-c200_c200v2 or other drivers there.
19:11:03Bob_COk, so they would test the patch locally then give a yay or neigh
19:11:05AlexPWhat's the Rockbox binary called for e200 ams?
19:11:11AlexPBob_C: yep
19:11:57Bob_COk, I will have to a bit of rework then
19:12:16domonokyAlexPP: i think its rockbox.sansa
19:12:30Bob_CMight take a while longer
19:12:36AlexPdomonoky: Thanks
19:13:47domonokyBob_C: no problem, take your time. i will try to help you when i get my board :-)
19:15:00casainho_domonoky, Bob_C : I were looking for kugel, as he also wanted to buy this board ;-)
19:16:00FlynDicefunman: saratoga: We can run the AMS Sansa SD cards at 49.6 MHz by lowering PCLK if you would accept that tradeoff....
19:16:35funmanFlynDice: what about cards which require 25MHz ?
19:17:35FlynDiceNope, the cards won't run without the bypass bit set right now, MCICLK must = PCLK
19:18:02funmani think 50MHz is only for high speed cards
19:18:17FlynDiceat least that's what I've found
19:18:44FlynDiceyes, that's true but I don't have a lower class card to check...
19:19:08funmani only have class 6 but i could get another one
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19:21:57funmancan i have some help with texlive installation, to build the fuze manual ?
19:22:16AlexPWhat distro?
19:22:18funmani have a local install of texlive 2008 I had successfully used some months ago, but now I miss tabularx.sty
19:22:32funmanubuntu karmic, with a local install of texlive 2008 (ubuntu repo only have 2007)
19:23:01funmanI don't have the installer anymore, I'm not sure if i should run it again or download the missing modules from ctan
19:23:17ED_209I have this weird battery issue with my iriver h300, does anyone know about these?
19:23:38AlexPDon't know I'm afraid, tabularx is normally in the package AFAIK
19:23:54AlexPfunman: I'm doing the e200 v2 manual now too :)
19:24:07funmanctan mentions it's in "tools, required package", but i can't find it in my install
19:24:14robin0800AlexP: can you delete my theme please?
19:24:20AlexPyep
19:24:56robin0800AlexP: the maximumart one only
19:25:06ED_209I charge the iriver, it says it's fully charged, and then while it's off it discharges.. sometimes down to 8%. then when I turn it on again it's at about 8% and it slowly creeps up to around 79%, but when I switch it off and wait a while then switch it on it's back down to 8% again
19:25:13funmanAlexP: i'll look at the fuze on my side
19:25:41AlexProbin0800: Done
19:25:45AlexPfunman: Cool
19:26:31HillshumWould it be possible to get CIA to read /docs/COMMITTERS to give the real name?
19:26:34ED_209does anyone have any idea why this is happening?
19:26:39domonokyED_209: so its only the battery display ? or did you measure how long it runs on such a seemingly empty battery.
19:26:42robin0800AlexP: Thanks
19:27:42 Quit casainho_ ("ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.3/20090824085743]")
19:28:04HillshumED_209: Have you booted the OF to see what it says about the battery?
19:28:24ED_209that's the problem I have, the battery starts up saying around 3.8v or 3.72v and has only a few % capacity remaining, then I have to use the iriver and the % remaining slowly creeps up while the iriver is running
19:28:26funmanHillshum: i think we must ask to CIA owners / or switch to git
19:28:50ED_209what's the OF and how would that help me determine the problem?
19:29:04HillshumOriginal Firmware
19:29:08ED_209oh, original firmware... I doubt it would tell me anything about the battery
19:29:16ED_209it just has like 4 bars
19:29:28ED_209that's all it tells me
19:30:21ED_209I mean, there are 4 bars of information and they're either all there, some gone or all gone
19:31:06HillshumDoes their presence (or lack thereof) correlate with what Rockbox says?
19:31:39ED_209no idea, but rockbox consistently does this, and it's only been happening recently
19:32:14ED_209telling me battery life remaining in quarterly segments is practically useless
19:32:28AlexPfunman: As the install is the same for the fuze and e200 v2 I'll write the manual install for both
19:33:25funmanAlexP: ok let me check if it's ok (will you put the patch on flyspray) ?
19:33:44domonokyED_209: you should be able to see a change from 8% to 79% also with the 4 bars from the OF. If it does the same, maybe your battery is just old, and needs replacement ?
19:33:49AlexPfunman: I'm just copying from the wiki, but I'll pastebin it first if you want
19:34:41ED_209I jsut unplugged it from charging, and switched to the OF and it said full bars, but I switched back to rockbox and during this time it's lost about 10% of remaining battery life
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19:35:16ED_209but now it's creeping up slowly, I just gained about 5% in teh last couple of minutes
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19:35:41ED_209this h300 used to act normal
19:36:44ED_209youd' charge the battery and it'd slowly go down (since it's a 2200mah battery)
19:37:06ED_209not up/down/up/down/down/up/down
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19:40:47ED_209I've already ordered a new battery anyway, but could this actually be a rockbox problem?
19:41:06HillshumSee what happens in the OF
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19:41:42ED_209well, it has 4 bars in the OF, that's practically useless
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19:41:58ED_209it's showing me in quarters the battery life remaining
19:42:09domonokyED_209: if you also see the votage rising in the debug area, its unlikely to be a software problem..
19:43:34ED_209rising how? there's a flatline for a long time, then a giant peak
19:44:29ED_209it doesn't save that information in that graph thing when I turn it off
19:44:42ED_209so I turn it on again and it's just a flatline
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19:45:03domonokyif the percentage goes from 8% to 79% you should see the correlating voltage in the debug menu.. so boot, go into debug menu and watch the voltage.
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19:45:34ED_209it tells me the voltage anyway if I have the right theme set
19:45:53ED_209and it's all over the place like the percentage indicator is
19:46:52domonokyso does the voltage rise with the percentage ? and do you also see long voltage drops on drive spinups ?
19:48:40ED_209the percentage correlates with the voltage
19:48:55ED_209the graph in the debug area correlates with the voltage
19:49:07ED_209or seems to
19:49:27AlexPfunman: Does mkamsboot need root?
19:50:29domonokyso its unlikely to be a software defect. if you also see long voltage drops on spinups its most likely the battery.
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19:50:51domonokyAlexP: no, it just patches the firmware.
19:50:55bertrikAlexP, AFAIK it just manipulates some files (no devices or anything like that) so it shouldn't need root
19:50:59AlexPOK, cool
19:51:10ED_209domonoky: have you heard of batteries doing this?
19:51:31ED_209the voltage seems to drop while it's turned off
19:51:51ED_209after using it for a while it creeps up
19:52:42domonokyED_209: it may also just look like it, rockbox first measures the battery, when we need most power. so a voltage drop in this situation on old batterys is likely.
19:53:51domonokyand if the battery needs a long time to recover voltage from a heavy load (because its old), you might get exactly what you see.
19:54:31ED_209what do you mean by "from a heavy load"
19:56:46domonokyheavy load = drawing much power from the battery.
19:57:08ED_209ok I'll stop bugging you
19:57:27ED_209well, the battery seems to drop in voltage while the unit is off
19:58:06ED_209and you need to keep something running like the backlight or some high bitrate songs before the voltage will start creeping up again
19:58:16ED_209but I'll just get the new battery and see what happens
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20:00
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20:14:39funmanAlexP: mkamsboot doesn't need root since it operates on files, not on the device
20:15:03funmancopying the file to the device might need root if 'mount' is involved
20:15:31funman(3rd answer, sorry)
20:15:45HillshumIf it's already mounted...
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20:18:14funmanhal + tools let you auto mount with user permissions
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20:19:51HillshumUbuntu has that by default
20:22:31AlexPfunman: I'm nearly done with the install stuff for you to look at
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20:23:06funmanAlexP: can you paste text (not .tex/diff) please, because I'm still 6 hours left until I can use texlive :/
20:23:26AlexPfunman: I'll give you a copy of the built manual
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20:34:43mc2739funman: ping
20:35:13AlexPfunman: http://aeparker.com/files/rockbox-e200v2-r22858M-090930.pdf - I haven't updated the rest of the manual so bits will be wrong - this is just to look at the install instructions
20:37:15***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:37:31AlexPWhat is the volume range on the e200v2?
20:37:56AlexPI guess the sim will tell me this sort of thing :)
20:39:16mc2739AlexP: volume settings go from -74db to 6db
20:39:45AlexPThanks - I've just realised I'm going to ask this for pretty much all settings, so I'm building the sim so I don't bother people :)
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20:41:48funmanmc2739: pong
20:42:22mc2739funman: would you be interested in committing a e200v2 lcd patch?
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20:44:14funmansure
20:44:25mc2739funman: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/10272?getfile=20549
20:44:40HillshumLet's assume it works...
20:45:07mc2739It works for me :)
20:49:39funmanmc2739: kugel also changed the name of lcd_write_single_data16 to lcd_write_value16 in the fuze diff ?
20:49:57funmanand de-inlined the function => not sure if that changes anything
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20:50:54funmanAlexP: shouldn't the manual read e200v2 Series ?
20:51:18AlexPyes, as I say I haven't adjusted it all yet
20:51:22funmanoh ok
20:51:33mc2739funman: I didn't change the name because it was less changes, not sure about the de-inlined function.
20:53:05 Quit DasSmiter (Client Quit)
20:54:44CIA-43New commit by 03funman (r22859): Fix "lcd driver speed up" on e200v2 ...
20:55:25funmanmc2739: thanks
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20:55:46mc2739funman: thank you, also
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20:55:57funmanAlexP: instructions to put the e200v2 in MSC mode could help also
20:56:22funmanmc2739: in which menu do you choose usb mode in the e200v2 OF ?
20:56:51Hillshumfunman: Settings >> USB Mode
20:57:22AlexPfunman: Yes, I thought they were there
20:57:26AlexPfunman: I'll add it
20:57:32Hillshumalso, the first firmware version had no menu for it, so telling people to upgrade is prolly a good idea
20:57:45funmanand there should be a link from mkamsboot to last mkamsboot release on the download server
20:57:56funmanand by the way the release candidate could become a 1.1 release
20:58:05AlexPThat can be changed as and when
20:58:24amiconnsaratoga: ping
20:58:51AlexPfunman: Is the USB setting the same as on the fuze?
20:59:12funmanyes and all sansa ams i believe (not sure for m200v4)
20:59:29AlexPOK, added that
21:00
21:00:19funmanwell on Fuze it is Settings >> System Settings >> USB Mode : Auto Detect / MTP / MSC
21:00:37AlexPDoes the e200v2 not have button lights?
21:00:57funmanon clip it's Settings >> USB Mode so I think it'll have to be device specific
21:00:59funmanyes it does
21:01:15AlexPOK, I can't see the setting on the sim
21:01:17funmanconfig-e200v2.h states so
21:03:05mc2739e200v2 has a scrollwhell light exactly like the v1
21:03:05funmanfor 2.2.3 5. I would say first copy the file to the device and then rename it (else it would clash with the already existing file)
21:03:37funman(and 2.2.4)
21:05:05AlexPfunman: OK
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21:21:00AlexPfunman: Which urls need to be changed?
21:21:43funmanAlexP: mkamsboot-1.1RC -> mkamsboot
21:21:49AlexPOK
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21:26:26saratogaamiconn: pong
21:29:39amiconnsaratoga: http://www.rockbox.org/irc/log-20090929#07:55:19
21:30:28AlexPfunman: Updated, same file name
21:30:42saratogaamiconn: absolutely, your understanding of this is better then mine
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21:31:16saratogabut be aware that AC3 will eventually end up using the mdct lib, maybe even really soon :)
21:31:20amiconnThe question is whether we want to do that change (const'ing constant tables) - it is imported code
21:32:01saratogaamiconn: we do
21:32:03Zagorhow many times have we updated our codecs with upstream code?
21:32:13saratogathe MDCT is a generic function
21:32:31saratogait will never be synced, and will eventually be consolidated with the other mdct codecs
21:33:06ZagorI have a feeling we are sometime a bit too cautious about modifying imported code
21:33:11amiconnok
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21:36:07CIA-43New commit by 03amiconn (r22860): Actually qualify the tables put into .irodata in r22849 as 'const'. Also mark fftorder[] as 'const'.
21:36:41 Quit fyrestorm ("lamers envy me like they envy bill g -- main boot xp, just the way it should be!")
21:39:28 Quit mc2739 ("ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.3/20090824101458]")
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21:40:58saratogascorch: can you give mt (http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?action=profile;u=22849) a developer badge ?
21:41:07AlexPsaratoga: I can
21:41:12saratogaeven better
21:41:15AlexPseeing as I am here :)
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21:41:46saratogaamiconn: for what its worth a few people have been looking at possibly using the AC3 mdct or something derived from it as a replacement for the current mdct library
21:41:57saratogait appears to be based on very nice split radix fft
21:42:18AlexPsaratoga: done
21:42:25amiconnYeah, I've seen that in here
21:42:44notlisteningdomonoky, when deeloping rbutil did you have some resouces for the languageid used by SAPI?
21:43:06mtAlexP: Thanks :)
21:43:10amiconnI just didn't want to leave the current code in a state that's technically wrong (it worked since there was no mix of ICODE_ATTR and IDATA_ATTR)
21:43:20AlexPmt: you are welcome :)
21:43:32saratogaif it becomes the new mdct lib it'd have to be fixed eventually
21:43:48amiconnI mean, no mix of 'const' and non-'const' in one of these
21:44:58domonokynotlistening: rbutil uses the sapi_voice.vbs script in tools currently. so it uses the lang id mapping from this file.
21:45:25saratogaany theory why apparently rbutil has trouble installing on AMS targets? i thought that was working
21:46:19funmanAlexP: i think expliciting "MSC" would be good
21:46:34funmanmt: are you interested by clipv2/clip+ port ?
21:48:17domonokysaratoga: what are the problems ?
21:48:56mtfunman: Yes
21:49:29 Quit tvelocity (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:49:50AlexPfunman: It is, in the prequisites
21:50:31funmanmt: i can buy clipv2 for €35 here
21:50:45saratogadomonoky: looking for the forums post now, but i think someone reported that it didn't install the build itself, just the bootloader (or maybe the reverse)
21:51:33 Nick advcomp2019_ is now known as advcomp2019 (n=advcomp2@unaffiliated/advcomp2019)
21:52:19notlisteningdomonoky, thanks just checked there is very little information on the net about the use of language ID in SAPI so I will work with what i have
21:52:38AlexPfunman: It could be more obvious though, I'll change it to a note (this is the same for all targets that need MSC)
21:53:26saratogadomonoky: perhaps i am mistaken in thinking there was a problme
21:54:17saratogafunman: so I should ask if we can part with 35 euros + postage to have you send one to mt?
21:54:20mtfunman: I'll wait till the end of october first, someone I know is going to the US and I might be able to have him buy me one from there.
21:55:57AlexPfunman: I'll put it in the manual section as well
21:56:00funmanmt: try to get a clip+ !
21:58:34 Quit bluebrother (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:59:17mtfunman: How much is a clip+ where you live ?
21:59:24mtIf it's available :)
21:59:42funmannot available :/
22:00
22:00:25 Join kugel [0] (n=kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel)
22:05:11CIA-43New commit by 03alex (r22861): Implement the Sansa e200v2 manual. Please let me know about any errors/omissions.
22:05:15domonokynotlistening: i think those lang ids for sapi, are just the id 8hex) from this list: http://www.science.co.il/Language/Locale-Codes.asp
22:07:40saratogamt: be careful about asking someone else to get you one, you might get a ClipV1 by accident
22:07:47saratogaunless you get a clip+
22:08:48mtsaratoga: I'm going to look online and just ship it to where they'll be staying.
22:09:14mtbut I'll probably get a clip_
22:09:20mts/_/+
22:09:45 Quit TheSeven ("ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.3/20090824101458]")
22:10:13notlisteningclip+ for about 50 from US
22:10:56saratogathe 2GB one is cheaper then that
22:11:13saratogaamazon has it for ~25 pounds
22:11:22AlexPcheap as chips
22:11:53mtI just found one on amazon for ~$38 (incl shipping)
22:12:03mt2 GB
22:12:29saratoga2Gb is probably the best bet anyway since you can add microsd and theres some risk of bricking the unit
22:13:08notlisteningtry froogle.com to search ;)
22:13:42AlexPThe 8GB is only $67.28 = £42 = €46
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22:19:05notlistening$71.55 including delivery to france uk etc
22:19:20TheSevenFYI, i have a very preliminary R/W FTL for nano2g now and need testers who don't care about data loss
22:21:29kugelfunman: FlynDice's commit fixes the problems on transcent cards?
22:21:52funmankugel: my card seems to work fine on the few tests i made so far
22:22:08kugelgreat, give that man a beer!
22:22:22funmanindeed, give that funman a beer!
22:22:50FlynDiceand one back at you both!
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22:23:44kugelmeh, I'd really love to be able to activate the voltage scaling
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22:24:07kugelFlynDice: I want 1 for myself :(
22:24:18*kugel isn't going to share his beer with funman
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22:24:39FlynDiceThat causes init issues with the uSD, different problem :/
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22:25:05froggymanwas an updated bootloader added to the iPod Video with the 3.4 release?
22:25:37*kugel still thinks boosting for sd accesses isn't a bad idea, and that seems to work with voltage scaling
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22:28:20FlynDiceboosting seemed to work fine for me. I just want to know what's causing the init issue for my own curiosity
22:30:01kugelhow about everyone gets a 2h extra runtime while you're investigating it? :)
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22:33:15kugelbertrik: do you think clocking down dbop would give some runtime (while backlight is off)?
22:33:42CIA-43New commit by 03FlynDice (r22862): AMS Sansa: Rename variable sdhc to sd_v2 to more accurately reflect the information it holds.
22:33:59bertrikkugel, I don't know, I don't expect much runtime of it
22:35:02kugelI think turning it off might give a bit more runtime, but turning on again on button press might be a problem (especially if all buttons are going to be read through dbop)
22:36:05FlynDicekugel: Is anyone objecting to boosting on sd access as a fix for voltage scaling?
22:36:23kugeldunno
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22:36:51kugelmy point is that virtually every sd access is boosted anyway
22:37:19***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:37:27kugeland nobody is really looking into that problem (except you if I read that correctly), so I don't think the real issue is getting solved soon either way
22:37:56kugelthe too high clocks looks like a safe bet to cause the problems though
22:38:28FlynDiceSame results with PCLK lowered to lower the card speed..;(
22:38:36kugelit possibly needs boosting with correct clocks too though
22:39:27kugelit could be that it "just doesn't work" no matter how we look at it
22:39:32 Join mt_ [0] (n=mt_@41.233.155.83)
22:39:35funmanbertrik: what is the status of fs#10603 : needs work on fuze ?
22:39:41bertrikI would like to see nominally correct settings before attempting to work around "bugs" with out-of-spec settings
22:40:28ZagorTheSeven: is your ftl in a patch somewhere?
22:41:00TheSevenno, it's standalone code, but adapting it to rockbox should be easy
22:41:09bertrikfunman, yes, it's reported to work OK on e200v2, but on the fuze the scroll wheel is not so fine anymore and hold doesn't work
22:41:10TheSevenZagor: linuxstb did some trivial wrapper with the old one
22:41:29Zagorwhere is the old one located?
22:41:31kugelbertrik: the scrollwheel ain't the problem, I got it working nicely with a few modifications
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22:41:52funmanbertrik: i'll try to find some time to look at it, it would be nice if it accidentally fixes lcd glitches
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22:42:03 Part froggyman
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22:42:39bertrikfunman, this patch should fix the blue bars at least
22:42:40kugelFlynDice: did you also experience that the e200v2 is smoother/better without the increased polling rate with FS #10603?
22:42:44TheSevenZagor: don't know if that ever reached rockbox SVN, as it wasn't quite working
22:42:52Zagoraha
22:43:07kugelin SVN, scrollwheel is polled every 5ms, with that patch only each tick (10ms)
22:43:33TheSevenZagor: just uploaded my code to theseven/releases/toolkit.7z">http://l4n.clustur.com/data/theseven/releases/toolkit.7z
22:45:09FlynDicekugel: My scrollweel worked fine with FS #10603
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22:45:47kugeldid you compare with after reverting the change to kernel-as3525.c? see my comments
22:46:16*kugel did have an idea to improve the wheel a bit further
22:47:21amiconnkugel: If voltage scaling causes problems with sd access, I'd guess the problem is that the voltage is too low for the sd card and/or interface. I think that just "boosting" the voltage during sd access should fix that
22:47:47amiconnOr is voltage scaling handled automatically by the SoC, and you can only enable/disable it?
22:47:52kugelyea that's my suspicion too
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22:47:59funmanwe can change the voltage but it requires some time
22:48:17 Quit funman ("free(random());")
22:48:55kugelamiconn: we can set the voltage in 4 levels
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22:51:30Zagorit could be worth looking at UBI (Unsorted Block Images) from the linux kernel. it's not a FTL but does most of the same things...
22:54:52kugelFlynDice: we can only base the sd clock off pclk?
22:55:16kugelI remember we have a second PLL, but I assume that won't help?
22:57:59TheSevenZagor: for nano2g, we neccessarily need whimory, as we can't boot else (the bootloader stage we're modifying is already inside the FTL)
22:58:13Zagoraha
22:58:16saratogakugel: you could get some increase in fuze battery life if you decreased the normal clock speed to ~32 MHz instead of 64
22:58:18FlynDicekugel: Whenever I try to divide the clock to a lower frequency the cards don't work. I can lower the card frequency by lowering PCLK. The cards run fine at MCICLK == PCLK == 32MHz but MCICLK != PCLK won't work
22:58:37 Quit mt_ ("Java user signed off")
22:58:52kugelsaratoga: that won't pay off I fear
22:58:53 Join mt_ [0] (n=mt_@41.233.155.83)
22:59:18kugel32 is too slow for dbop, and too slow for most codecs (which would mean more boosting)
22:59:58saratogakugel: ideally we should be boosting during playback, no boosting means wasted clock, and with voltage scaling, there is no downside to boosting
23:00
23:00:01kugelespecially with voltage scaling, less boosting gives better runtime over just lower clocks
23:00:16saratogaoh i see what you mean
23:00:26saratogaregardless, running at 62MHz wastes a lot of power
23:00:57saratogasome way should be found to reduce that, even if it involves a more complicated solution
23:01:19rasherAlexP: nice @ the e200v2 manual
23:01:31kugelI'm quite satisfied with 62MHz, and I rather doubt 31MHz has a noticeable/positive effect
23:02:00saratogakugel: spec sheet says 0.25mW per MHz IIRC
23:02:15AlexPrasher: It's quite easy when it is virtually all the same as an existing one :)
23:02:24saratogaand theres probably some additional savings from reducing the other clocks
23:02:34saratoga(DBOP as you mentioned above)
23:02:34kugelcan you find that page?
23:02:58 Quit Ubuntuxer ("Leaving.")
23:03:51saratogakugel: Table 9 ARM 922T characteristics
23:03:54kugellet me put it this way, with 62MHz any plugin runs just fine (bubbles, pf, and more), compared to the e200v1 where running some plugins without boosting is no way fun
23:04:12bertrikmost ARMs have a low power wait-for-interrupt mode, so running at higher clocks means it's done faster and spend more time in the low power mode :)
23:04:35saratogadoes ARM9? it seems like a fairly primative chip
23:04:47TheSeveni think so, see the CP15 regs
23:04:55kugelI'd love to have a 3 tier boosting, we could possibly have that isolated in the target tree (boost to 62MHz during LCD updates for example, it's without delay anyway)
23:05:07saratogakugel: that seems sensible
23:05:18saratogahave the boost code check if the LCD is enabled
23:05:48saratogawould also be useful on PP too, but thats another issue
23:06:23kugelI see 0.25mW, but that's probabl a lot less than that with reduced voltage
23:06:35saratogapower scales with v^2
23:06:41kugel0.25 is for 1.2V
23:07:10TheSevensaratoga: MCR p15, 0, Rd, c7, c0, 4 works at least for the 940T
23:07:16saratogaso 1.1v is .21mW per MHz
23:07:34kugelalmost 1/5 less
23:07:41saratogayeah
23:08:04saratogaof course reducing the average clock from 62 to 40 is 1/3 less or so :)
23:08:13kugelit also says "with cach", who knows how much the cache influences that
23:08:18*TheSeven needs to implement that in ibugger to stop that awful battery drain
23:08:23saratogathats refering to what features the core has I think
23:08:57kugelthe table I'm looking at has cache (sizes) in a separate row
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23:10:21saratogayou mean column?
23:11:04 Quit mcuelenaere ()
23:11:42kugelsaratoga: I'm just looking at this small one here: http://www.arm.com/products/CPUs/ARM922T.html
23:12:24saratogakugel: power scaling is process specific, i don't think you should use the generic arm figures
23:13:04kugelsaratoga: that's a 922T table
23:13:41 Quit stoffel (Remote closed the connection)
23:13:54saratogakugel: the 922T is a bunch of source code thats compiled into a CPU by a vendor using details about their specific CMOS process
23:14:10saratogathe arm figures are just estimates for some typical process, they're not specific to the one AMS used
23:14:34saratogathe actual numbers can be adjusted by tweaking the process for performance or power consumption
23:15:45amiconnsaratoga: Multi-level boosting doesn't make sense on a cpu which has no voltage scaling
23:15:57amiconnWith voltage scaling it makes a lot of sense though
23:16:17amiconn(regarding your cearlier omment about PP)
23:16:20kugelespecially if boosting is a zero-wait one
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23:16:48Roger__hello
23:17:11saratogaamiconn: sorry I just meant detecting if the screen is on for PP and using different idle clocks
23:17:12amiconnkugel: That's irrelevant regarding power consumption - it only dictates how often you can switch without negative effects
23:17:15kugelsaratoga: how would you boost to 62MHz for playback=
23:17:20amiconnsaratoga: why?
23:17:44Roger__i have a 30gb ipod video with rockbox installed. what is a good way to sync my music to it?
23:17:48saratogaamiconn: because we only need ~24MHz for MP3 playback, but the GUI is unresponsive at that clock
23:18:02saratogaso it doesn't look good unless the screen is off anyway
23:18:25amiconnWell that surely depends on the actual target
23:18:50*amiconn would expect no visible slowness at 24MHz on the greyscale PP targets
23:18:55saratogakugel: I would do 31MHz if the screen is off, 62MHz if the screen is on, and then whatever is best for the full boost clock (250 I guess )
23:19:02bertrikI often wonder if we can come up with a way to detect exactly when boost is needed instead of just saying "always boost for X"
23:19:22saratogaamiconn: indeed even the e200 works nicely at 24, but the Ipod Video apparently does not
23:19:32Zagorthe problem is that we need to know slightly before it is needed...
23:19:40kugelsaratoga: 31MHz for playback is bad if it means more often boosting to 248 (and upping the voltage)
23:19:44HillshumZagor: Yesterday I noticed the compare revisions page on the wiki doesn't have the right theme
23:19:46bertriklike for example when we have threads yielding with more threads waiting to run
23:19:46saratogawell nice enough for me anyway, others might disagree
23:20:00ZagorHillshum: right, that's left to fix
23:20:02gevaertsRoger__: that really depends on you
23:20:03amiconnThen I think the small difference between 24MHz and 30MHz isn't worth introducing complexity
23:20:06Zagorand search results too
23:20:22bertrikZagor, sad but probably trye ...
23:20:24saratogakugel: well 200MHz then so you don't need to change the voltage
23:20:27bertrik*true
23:20:35Roger__gevaerts: what are the opstions
23:20:38Roger__*options
23:20:40amiconnZagor: %W% isn't working in foswiki
23:20:47saratogaamiconn: yes thats why i dropped it when we discussed it last year, but if the mechanism is introduced anyway for AMS it might be worth using it for PP
23:20:55Zagoramiconn: what is %W%?
23:21:12gevaertsRoger__: well, I just copy the files from a command prompt. There may be GUI tools, but I don't know about them...
23:21:26amiconnI guess it was a warning graphic.
23:21:44kugelsaratoga: I don't like the idea of limiting the maximum performance that much
23:21:52saratogakugel: are there any AMS codecs which need 250MHz?
23:21:56saratogai guess APE might?
23:22:15HillshumAPE needs all it can get?
23:22:33saratogasomeone should run test_codec on AMS so we find out
23:22:35gevaertsHillshum: slightly more actually
23:22:46amiconnsaratoga: I don't think that constant-voltage targets should get such a probably complex boosting algorithm
23:22:58Roger__gevaerts: i was thinking of a program which keeps track of my new music and adds it
23:22:59kugelthere's also a few core stuff which is nicer with full performance
23:22:59Hillshumsaratoga: I need to compile it right
23:23:09Roger__rather than copying all of it
23:23:12HillshumAlso, where do I get a ape file
23:23:13Hillshum?
23:23:14kugelbuilding tagcache for example
23:23:18saratogaHillshum: yes by adding it to plugins/SOURCES
23:23:56saratogaHillshum: I think you're supposed to take the example FLAC and transcode it so you know which setting was used
23:24:07HillshumOkay
23:24:15Hillshumnow for a way to transcode it
23:24:15Zagoramiconn: where is it used? foswiki uses %ICON{"warning"}% for that. %W% seems rather short. I wonder if that was something extra.
23:24:17saratogakugel: IMO these things should boost regardless so they happen efficiently
23:24:36kugelit does boost
23:24:51saratogaoh you mean to 250MHz
23:24:56kugelyes
23:25:43saratogawell theres always the option of the a multilevel boost then with 200 and 250 if we find it really makes a difference
23:26:08amiconnZagor: Probably quite a number of pages. Two examples: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SansaE200Unbrick , http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SansaC200Port
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23:26:32kugelI like the idea of having 31 and 248, with an additionally 62 playback&ui boost
23:27:30kugel31MHz isn't even enough for mp3/ogg IIUC
23:28:20saratogadefinatelu not for MP3
23:28:32saratogaits probably about right for Ogg unless AMS is a lot slower then PP
23:28:56amiconnAMS should be faster than PP since it's ARM9
23:29:08saratogayeah but in practice it seems to suffer from having slower IRAM
23:29:56saratogai don't think we ever really worked out the latency exactly but it seemed like an uncached access to the IRAM (really eDRAM) takes several clock cycles
23:30:04amiconnReally? That would also mean caching isn't nearly as efficient as on PP
23:30:09saratogaparticularly when boosted since the IRAM is clocked at 65MHz
23:30:15 Quit Strife89 ("Going home.")
23:30:35kugelogg is just about at 30MHz on a e200 in *test_codec*, considering the lot of other code that runs in normal operation, you possible want to add a few MHz to that
23:30:39amiconnOn PP5022, iram makes almost no difference because of caching
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23:31:19saratogaamiconn: compared to Coldfire, but good use of IRAM still shaves several MHz off
23:31:40saratogajust not dozens of them like CF
23:31:56amiconnYeah, CF has no data cache
23:31:59 Quit __lifeless (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
23:32:08saratogabut overall I think the cache is probably much better on AMS, just it can't be quite as good for codecs like MP3 which never even touch DRAM
23:32:21kugeliram is only a very little faster than dram on ams
23:32:50kugeliram is cached too, isn't it?
23:33:42saratogayeah they both should be unless we've done something wrong
23:34:36saratogaoverall AMS probably runs very similar to the gigabeat F
23:35:11saratogaunfortunately we have no benchmarks for the F that arne't years out of date
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23:35:14kugelFX has more cache
23:35:16kugela lot more
23:35:56saratogayeah 16/16 isntead of 8/8
23:36:15Roger__what programs does everyone use to sync their music with rock box?
23:36:39ZagorRoger__: I use /bin/cp :-)
23:37:06kugelI use mediamonkey, but most use plain drag and drop (or cp) I assume
23:37:13*bertrik uses copy/paste with windows explorer
23:37:24Roger__what is bin/cp?
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23:38:01kugelZagor: ever considered rsync?
23:38:16Zagorkugel: no. I only ever copy in one direction.
23:38:31*Hillshum has used MediaMonkey
23:38:31ZagorRoger__: the unix/linux command line file copy command
23:38:31Roger__just plain drag and drop i cant always remember the new music i have
23:38:42Roger__ah. i have windows
23:40:47robin0800Roger__: I like microsofts sync toy
23:40:58 Quit esperegu_ (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
23:41:02Roger__is that on xp?
23:41:19robin0800Roger__: Its a power toy
23:41:40Roger__cool ill check that out
23:41:46Roger__and media monkey :)
23:45:38amiconnZagor: It seems %W% used to be a warning icon at some point, but I can't find that in the twiki wiki. See here: http://web.archive.org/web/20070425203021/www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SansaE200TroubleShooting (note the "A word of caution" heading)
23:47:32Hillshumsaratoga: I might boot into Windows sometime and encode that ape file
23:49:12amiconnHmm, today it's %X%, and the MajorChanges page already used %X% back in 2007...
23:49:30Zagoramiconn: this page even says that also twiki used %ICON notation: http://web.archive.org/web/20070206172337/http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/TWiki/TextFormattingRules#TWiki_Variables
23:49:55amiconnYes, but shortcuts are better for often-used icons
23:50:17Zagoraha, it seems the SmiliesPlugin was used to create the shortcut
23:51:43 Part likemindead ("facepalm.jpg")
23:52:23amiconnSince it's just another shortcut for the same thing, it might be better to change all %W% to %X%
23:52:47amiconnIs there an easy way to search for them on the server
23:52:49 Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection)
23:53:30Zagorit is used on 17 pages
23:53:53 Quit _lifeless (Remote closed the connection)
23:54:14 Quit evilnick ("going the pub")
23:54:28ZagorAlbumArt DesktopTools DeviceDetection GitVersionControl InterixDevelopment IpodStatus IrcNicks RockboxAutoManagementUtility RockboxUtilityDevelopment SansaC200Erase SansaC200Port SansaE200Unbrick SimpleGuideToCompiling TargetStatus UiSimulator VoiceBuilding WpsTokenizer
23:56:51 Quit webguest04 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
23:57:02amiconnIs it possible to do the replacement on the server as well?
23:57:38Hillshumsed on the files?
23:57:47 Join _lifeless [0] (n=lifeless@90.151.45.208)

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