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#rockbox log for 2009-10-23

00:01:56saratogatoffe82: what does that software actually do?
00:02:27saratogaor do I need something else before it works?
00:02:29 Quit pamaury ("exit(*(int *)0 / 0);")
00:02:48toffe82just show you the register of a given cpu and tparameter, so you don't have to search in the datasheet
00:02:57 Join Horscht [0] (n=Horscht2@xbmc/user/horscht)
00:02:57CIA-85New commit by 03bluebrother (r23317): Add simple progress indicator when building.
00:03:02 Quit ender` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:03:20toffe82it can be link with their ide dev sytem to do more I think
00:03:24TheSevensaratoga: I think that hint was intended for the mini2440 people
00:05:26 Join ender` [0] (i=krneki@foo.eternallybored.org)
00:05:26saratogaah ok so their ide is required for it to work?
00:05:27 Quit HBK- (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
00:05:27toffe82and others ;)
00:05:27toffe82sratoga: no
00:05:27toffe82if you open it and looks for a specific register of a cpu, you can find it, with the parameter of this specific register
00:05:27JdGordon|kugel: I'm having trouble parsing your last 2 statements
00:05:27 Join HBK- [0] (n=hbk@rrcs-97-77-51-170.sw.biz.rr.com)
00:05:27kugel%we/%wd in the wps should work like it did before, since the sbs is just another statusbar for the rest of the code
00:05:57JdGordon|does the wps get the UI viewport from the sbs if it is still running?
00:06:10JdGordon|or do we leave it up to the themer to make sure they dont overlap?
00:06:20kugelno, the ui viewport doesn't run in the wps anyway
00:07:27saratogatoffe82: I open it and i get a bunch of error messages (on XP)
00:07:43toffe82I open it on xp and no problem
00:09:27toffe82saratoga: download it again
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00:26:10JdGordon|bluebrother: yeah, i comepltly forgot about the smaller + mono screens who would use the old bar.... I'm hoping someone who does use it will do the .sbs and images it needs though :)
00:26:52JdGordon|that bar *is* going though...
00:27:01JdGordon|which is why I gave the warning :)
00:27:17bluebrotherwell, just provide a way to display it again :)
00:27:17 Quit DerPapst ("Leaving.")
00:27:44*bluebrother hands all those color-gui-people a monochrome target
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00:28:06JdGordon|the way is the .sbs file
00:28:18 Quit GeekShadow ("The cake is a lie !")
00:28:40*bluebrother still likes the mini2g the best of all targets
00:28:50bluebrothers/the//
00:29:10JdGordon|thats the target sitting right next to me at the moment :)
00:29:24JdGordon|(and it does have the bar enabled :p )
00:31:46 Quit ender` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:32:18amiconnJdGordon|: The plain status bar needs to be embedded in the binary same way as the default minimal wps
00:33:35amiconnThe reason is that the charging screen can not, and early usb *must* not access the disk
00:34:55TheSevenmy nano just doesn't want to do a battery benchmark
00:35:03TheSevenyesterday it FTL-failed, not it stkov'ed
00:36:16JdGordon|amiconn: yes I know... its going to be less flashy than the current one though... ( a bit les flashy anyway)
00:36:39JdGordon|I wanted to ask if you still have plans for the status indicator thingy?
00:37:05JdGordon|for the player and mrobe remotes
00:37:38amiconnYes, and the M3 multicolour led, and the Elio multicolour led etc
00:37:41 Quit JackWinter (Remote closed the connection)
00:38:31amiconnThe basic idea is to separate status reporting from status display
00:39:07amiconnThe statusbar will then just one method to display the reported status, and it won't have to deal with charcell at all anymore
00:39:19amiconnThe target specific status stuff will reside in firmware/
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00:41:57kugelJdGordon|: told you :P I also like the classic statusbar on the clip
00:43:05bertrikheh, the clip hasn't reached stable/useable yet and its statusbar is already "classic" :P
00:44:41JdGordon|amiconn: have you done anything about it yet? or plans to do it any time soon? :)
00:46:57kugelJdGordon|: seems I need to know whether a token is used conditionally or not...at least that doesn't make the wps_token struct bigger, and it actually makes the %C handling more sane
00:47:37JdGordon|what are you trying to do?
00:48:10 Quit bertrik ("Leaving")
00:48:12kugelmaking the parser fail if one trys to draw into the default vp in the sbs
00:48:22kugelinstead of just not drawing as done currently
00:48:23JdGordon|bugger that.... leave it up to the themer
00:48:41kugelwhy?
00:48:58JdGordon|because its not dangerous or anything if they do... they'll just get the wrong outcome
00:49:06JdGordon|is adding code which isnt needed
00:49:10JdGordon|it complicates things
00:49:16kugelit doesn't
00:49:22kugelit's rather simple
00:49:48JdGordon|its still not nessecary
00:50:30kugelI think it is necessary to actually tell why the skin doesn't work
00:50:37***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:50:46kugelhaven't you fixed wps_debug a bit recently for that very reason?
00:51:36JdGordon|because users are stupid :)
00:51:47JdGordon|not because they drew in the default vp
00:52:56kugelok let me put it this way, I'm not keen on 2 users per week that complain about a non-working sbs where even we can't figure the exact cuase
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00:53:46amiconnJdGordon|: I didn't do anything apart from thinking about it so far
00:53:58amiconnI am planning to do this, but I can't tell an eta
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00:54:35JdGordon|kugel: where has that happened?
00:54:48kugelit's going to happen
00:55:03JdGordon|I doubt it
00:55:29JdGordon|you cant draw in the default vp in the wps either if viewports are used, and they have to be used in the sbs
00:55:50JdGordon|amiconn: ok... maybe breaking the player status indicators is a good way to hurry things along? :D </sarcasm>
00:56:32kugelJdGordon|: you can !?
00:56:38kugelI've been doing it for ages
00:57:37JdGordon|show me...
00:58:06JdGordon|or.. what are you drawing?
00:58:06kugelthe code has no visible exception for the default vp
00:58:06JdGordon|yes it does
00:58:06JdGordon|or it did last time i looked
00:58:21kugeldrawing = text, images, albumart, pb, etc
00:59:34JdGordon|anyway... right now the sbs will pass the parse right? it might/will cause redraw issues that are *obvious*.... you want to change it so it fails, with (currently) no explanation as to why... leaving it as is is much better
01:00
01:00:07kugelit doesn't cause redraw issues
01:00:51kugelthe stuff just isn't drawn because hidden viewports are handled in the drawing level. viewports that are always hidden can be handled in the parser already. that also applies to the %Vi one btw
01:02:19JdGordon|well.. I dont nessecarily agree that marking the default VP as always hidden was a good idea...
01:02:43JdGordon|its still an obvious reason why things dont get displayed if its a condition of the sbs.. whicih it is
01:03:00JdGordon|thats even mentioned in CustomWPS isnt it?
01:03:01kugelit must be
01:03:09kugelclearing it messes the whole ui up
01:03:30JdGordon|so good... leave it how it is
01:03:33kugelno
01:03:48JdGordon|whats the actual problem?
01:04:22kugelthe parser allows code that's clearly invalid
01:04:24JdGordon|I guarentee users who complain about missing bits of their sbs will be the same ones that complain it just doesnt load without looking at the debug output
01:06:07kugelyes sure....
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01:07:07JdGordon|so whats the problem?
01:08:26kugelthe parser allows code that's clearly invalid
01:09:07JdGordon|its not invalid
01:09:38JdGordon|its incorrect, but not invalid
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01:30:06kugelhm, something is fishy
01:30:39kugeldue to my checks, I see that the default vp counts as %Vi :/
01:34:16kugelhm, no
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01:35:04JdGordon|bah.. you damn wierdo... dont bother with this :p
01:35:17JdGordon|fix the wps in my remove statusbar patch!
01:36:14kugelhaha, it made me spot another problem
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01:40:30kugelthe patch is dead simple
01:40:59JdGordon|that worries me :p
01:40:59kugeland allows to get rid of two other rather nasty tricks
01:41:03JdGordon|those nasty tricks are essential to the wellbeing of the world!!
01:44:14kugelJdGordon|: please look at it when you're back from work: http://pastie.org/666022 half of the patch is a semi-related change that's going in anyway
01:45:34JdGordon|20min or so
01:45:51JdGordon|I assume it adds a "isconditional" or something to the token?
01:47:31kugelyea
01:47:50kugelbut it's free w.r.t to the struct size
01:48:08JdGordon|yeah, its fine.. go ahead... i had thought about adding that when the %C nonesense came up
01:48:35*JdGordon| couldnt give a shit about struct sizes.... really....
01:48:48kugelsince when?
01:49:12kugelisn't that complicated skin buffer thing due to saving struct size?
01:50:30JdGordon|yes, but saving 2 or 4 bytes is not something i care about... save 10KB is interesting
01:50:57kugelyou wanted to save the 4byte per token which IIRC
01:51:01JdGordon|i.e the commit you did last week(?) to rearrange the members was imo pointless
01:51:24kugels/which//
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02:16:36JdGordon1bah
02:18:35JdGordon1kugel: the #define is terrible.... make it a inline function instead....
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02:41:51funmannice progress on recording for Sansa AMS on fs#10371 : i'll get some time soon to dig in the work freddyb made
02:42:44funmani think we managed to get the hardware bits (just need to clean this up), and integration in rockbox recording API is buggy (you may say normal since i wrote it ..)
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03:01:02CIA-85New commit by 03blue_dude (r23318): Consolidate almost identical code in pcmbuf.c
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04:46:13ED_209can someone report two bugs for me
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04:47:05ED_209on the h300 the metronome no longer works, you need to turn the unit off entirely because it jams when you run it (but the metronome did function on earlier versions)
04:47:43ED_209the savegames on the game "superdom" don't do anything (you can't load them)
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07:19:43*JdGordon has statusbar working how he wants... but completly broken wps!
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07:33:56JdGordonanyone around? do wps's that dont use viewports still work?
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08:06:09*JdGordon almost has the statusbar+wps working together how i want them :)
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09:16:02JdGordonshouldnt "no code in #defines" be in docs/CONTRIBUTING?
09:16:54JdGordonhttp://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/trunk/apps/gui/viewport.c?annotate=23258 line 34 :<
09:20:11ZagorJdGordon: I'll add a note about it
09:20:36JdGordonassuming im not the only one that finds it bad form and annoying?
09:20:50Zagorno you're not
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09:26:50CIA-85New commit by 03zagor (r23319): "No code in .h files or #defines"
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09:41:35linuxstbZagor: What's "no code in #defines" meant to mean? No macros at all?
09:41:48Zagorgenereally, no
09:42:07Zagorbut there are of course always exceptions
09:42:32Zagorthe settings macro is evil, for example. but the alternative non-macro code is ghastly too.
09:43:07linuxstbI'm thinking more of single-line functions, such as LCD_RGBPACK, or the byte-swapping things.
09:43:23linuxstbThe rule seems pretty explicit that that's not allowed now...
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09:44:56Zagoranything is allowed, if it is the best alternative. imho the point of these rules is rather to say "this should not be your first option" than "we will never accept code that breaks these rules"
09:46:10*Unhelpful notes that "no code in .h files" is broken all the time where inline functions are involved ;)
09:48:20*linuxstb simply isn't convinced we need a rule to say that the code example JdGordon said is bad style
09:50:53Zagormaybe not. but taken generically it is a "value" of the project and I don't think it hurts to put it in writing
09:51:19linuxstbThat's already there with "Don't redefine the language."
09:52:25Zagornot really. that part is rather aimed at the people who like to redefine keywords and basic language constructs
09:52:46Zagorbut sure, it can be interpreted to mean both
09:54:02linuxstbI just think there are too many exceptions to those new rules for them to be useful. But anyway, time for work...
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10:19:32funmanshouldn't it be "no multi lines macros" ?
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10:22:20linuxstbLCD_RGBPACK is multi-line...
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10:30:16ZagorI don't think it's possibe to quantize exactly what we consider to be acceptable use of macros without writing an essay
10:35:29pamaurygevaerts: ping
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11:58:12Bob_COn a strict interpretation, that means not using any defines, because even a literal value is a language token
11:58:50gevaertsBob_C: that's good, because it implies that it's a rule you have to think about instead of following it blindly :)
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12:02:27Bob_CSurely fr a rule, that's bad, because everyone has a different interpretation?
12:03:08Bob_CMy view on coding standards is that they should be able to be enforced by a software tool, which does follow rules blindly
12:06:48Bob_CTo be honest, I can't even guess what "code" means in this context. Preferably, terms defined in the C standard would be more useful to me.
12:06:56gevaertsmy view on coding standards is that if they are enforced by a software tool they usually are stupid
12:08:02Bob_CMy other view on coding standards is that most of the rules people put in are stupid. ie. they are cosmetic and do nothing to avoid bugs
12:08:40gevaertshave you read docs/CONTRIBUTING?
12:09:06Bob_COf course ;)
12:09:28gevaertsthen you know that we don't see coding style as something rigid :)
12:10:20Bob_CHuh? I must be reading a different doc!
12:11:14Bob_CMost of the rules are arbitrary and quite rigid. "No new types"
12:12:04*linuxstb simply thinks that that new rule is too ambiguous (and too widely broken in existing code) to add anything useful
12:12:51Bob_CBut provided rules are clear, I am happy to comply with them whatever I personally think.
12:13:11gevaertsBob_C:I was more thinking about things like "When changing code, follow the code style of the file you are editing"
12:16:24linuxstbgevaerts: Yes, that's a simple and clear rule...
12:17:03Bob_CThat is quite a reasonable rule I think
12:19:50Bob_CI think I have broken the rule already. See firmware/export/s3c2440.h "DMA_SRC_MAP_xxx". I felt guilty writing that
12:38:22CIA-85New commit by 03mcuelenaere (r23320): Lua: add do_menu() wrapper. Also fix potential NULL pointer dereference
12:49:57CIA-85New commit by 03mcuelenaere (r23321): Lua: add parts of the math library (all floating point functions are #ifdef'ed out) ...
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13:04:22kugelBob_C: hey!
13:05:17Bob_CDid I miss anything?
13:05:45kugeli just turned my mini2440 on
13:06:51funmanis it possible to download the 'current build' for a past revision ? (to bissect bugs apparition)
13:07:45Bob_Ckugel: it should boot into Qtopia
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13:08:27kugelBob_C: yes it did, my question is whether I can keep qtopia parallel to rockbox
13:10:16Bob_Ckuhe: yes, Qtopia is entirely contained in NAND, and we don't use NAND for anything. We do overwrite supervivi, which you might need to update the NAND installation
13:11:09kugelah ok
13:11:25Bob_CBut if you can flash the rockbox bootloader, then you can always re-flash supervivi from the CD. You did get a CD?
13:11:35kugela dvd yep
13:12:59linuxstbfunman: Only daily builds are kept - http://download.rockbox.org/daily/
13:14:17Bob_CA vital step omitted in the Wiki page is to set the boot switch to NOR or NAND as appropriate, but you probably spotted that already
13:15:41funmanoh for 3 days only
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13:18:30kugelhrm, konqueror crashes when opening rockbox.org :p
13:20:38kugelBob_C: I do need windows for using the tools on the dvd right?
13:21:55kugelfunman: they were kept a month a while back,don't know why they're gone recently
13:23:03linuxstbYes, they were often kept for more than a month (depending on the download mirror)...
13:23:55Bob_Ckugel: I think so yes. For Linux we are using OpenOCD. There are probably other tools that might work
13:26:44funmanlinuxstb: if the download mirrors are rsynced, wouldn't they have the exact same content ?
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13:29:26linuxstbfunman: I think some mirrors didn't delete old files...
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13:36:23kugelBob_C: do you have a bootloader handy or do I need to build one?
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13:38:12Bob_Cour bootloader is in svn, so it should be easy to build
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13:51:56kugelBob_C: except on windows :)
13:53:46Bob_CI can upload a bin file, just not sure where to put it
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14:09:30Bob_Ckugel: i have uploaded here http://rockboxplayer.googlecode.com/files/bootloader.bin
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15:21:59tomersgevaerts: ping
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15:29:22CIA-85New commit by 03tomers (r23322): FS #10704 - Make a configuration option to disable USB HID
15:29:27gevaertstomers: pong
15:29:54tomersgevaers: Just committed... :-) wanted to ask you if you have any other objections
15:30:35tomersgevaerts: I read all your remarks on the 22th (just the day after) and took them into account
15:32:06gevaertstomers: I think the first usb_core_enable_driver(USB_DRIVER_HID,true) should stay. The way it is now, you have no interface at all if people disable HID and connect in charge-only mode
15:34:01gevaertsapart from that I think it should be fine
15:34:51gevaertsexcept that the patch seems to change more than the commit message suggests :)
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15:38:37tomersgevaerts: http://pastie.org/666619
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15:39:26tomersgevaerts: I should put more effort in describing my commits indeed :-)
15:41:02webguest37what is prefered the gigabeat F or X ?
15:41:32gevaertstomers: no, the point is that we use HID as charging-only interface whenever possible. The dummy charging-only driver isn't compiled in on targets that have HID.
15:42:07gevaertstomers: So just enable HID unconditionally then. You don't go to the USB screen anyway, so it doesn't send any events, which means that from a user point of view, i's not enabled
15:42:30gevaertswebguest37: personally I'd prefer the X, but those are horribly hard to find
15:43:02gevaertstomers: so I'd recommend just reverting that single line
15:43:16tomersgevaerts: ok
15:44:02webguest37gevaerts: what about the S, or is that to unstable to use?
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15:44:47pyro_maniactomers: don't forget to close FS #10704
15:45:42tomerspyro_maniac: This is exactly what I just did :-)
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15:45:53gevaertswebguest37: opinions differ. Once you get it running, it's usually stable. For some people the in-flash bootloader tends to suddenly format its data partition every now and then (but certainly not for everyone). It has a radio, which the F doesn't have, but the battery time is also a lot less
15:47:10gevaertsSome people really like it, but while I personally prefer the S case, I prefer the battery time and general lack of issues with the F (which is why I want an X, which is basically an F in an S case)
15:47:11webguest37gevaerts: ok, thanks, I think I will probaly go witht the F or X, for the better battery life, and that radio isnt important to me
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15:52:23CIA-85New commit by 03tomers (r23323): Revert disabling of USB HID while in charging mode (introduced by r23322), in ...
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15:54:21tomersgevaerts: So this issue is really closed, right?
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16:06:38TheSevenanybody with moderate pcmbuf knwledge around?
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19:09:37JdGordonkugel: that code you pastebined yesterday has that horrible RETURN_IF_SOMETHING_OR_OTHER #define... if you really must do that use a static inline function... doing that is really bad form...
19:09:47kugelI saw that
19:10:11kugelinline doesn't allow me to put the return into the thing
19:10:57JdGordonso its 2 lines instead of one...
19:11:05kugelI was surprised that this was added to CONTRIBUTING so quickly, without discussion, particularly because the existing code base violates that a million times
19:11:41JdGordonthat sort of thing shouldnt have ever got into the code
19:12:26pixelmatomers: so I should test with a current build on OSX.4 ?
19:13:26gevaertspixelma: I think so, yes. Of course with that setting set properly
19:13:32JdGordonalso... the other thing I noticed around the code is where you split an if(some long condition) line so its not longer than 80 chars, and there is only one statement after there is no {}
19:13:35JdGordon's
19:13:41JdGordonwhich makes it hard to follow
19:14:13pixelmagevaerts: ok, if I want to try now, I think that'll give RBUtil a try too
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19:22:29*TheSeven thinks he has spotted a pcmbuf bug
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19:22:36TheSeven(or at least some illogical naming)
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19:24:28xDonnyis there any work on a GBA emulator for rockbox?
19:25:32tomerspixelma: You can test of course! I tested it on WInXP and HID doesn't enumerates, so I believe it'll work on MAC OS, but confirming it would be appreciated, of course :-) (I closed the FS, without verifying first)
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19:27:11TheSevenwhat the heck is pcmbuf_unplayed_bytes good for? it seems to rather count the bytes not yet passed to the PCM...
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19:27:39gevaertsxDonny: the vast majority of rockbox targets is much too slow for that, and I have serious doubts if any of them are actually near fast enough
19:28:02n1sTheSeven: maybe to know how much pacm you have left before you underrrun?, just a guess
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19:28:09xDonnygevaerts: Alright thanks for the info, and is it the same for a NES emulator?
19:28:19*TheSeven also has doubt if any kind of emulation for that second (touchscreen) lcd can be usable
19:28:23*gevaerts doesn't know
19:28:54TheSevenn1s: it seems to be rather used as a value how many bytes are currently allocated, and this is clearly wrong as it may overwrite the data currently playing if it's fast enough
19:29:03n1sxDonny: there's a half finished patch for a nes emulator but it seems abandoned
19:29:18xDonnyn1s: Where can I find this?
19:30:38n1sxDonny: in the patch tracker, be warned though, it will likely not compile with current svn and even if it does i don't know how well it works
19:31:15xDonnyn1s: alright, thanks for the info.
19:31:19*TheSeven is spotting very very weird things in the pcmbuf
19:31:51*xDonny is playing harry potter on his ipod and thinks it sucks
19:34:42AlexPxDonny: That may be, but is not on topic in here
19:35:39xDonnyi apologize
19:36:06AlexPno worries :)
19:37:15xDonnyn1s: I cannot find the patch you were referring to
19:38:46n1sxDonny: if you search for, say "nes" it's the second hit...
19:40:00xDonnyn1s: I see it now, I just couldn't find where to download it.
19:40:04xDonnythank you
19:41:58xDonnyFor the developers here that use windows to compile, how do you go about it?
19:42:23AlexPYou use either a linux VM or cygwin
19:42:30AlexPSee the wiki
19:42:36AlexPe.g. SimpleGuideToCompiling
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19:43:25xDonnyi'll use a linux VM, I just got vmware workstation
19:44:15AlexPThere is a ready made one for download
19:44:27AlexPI think there is a thread in the Compiling forum
19:44:52xDonnyokay
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19:46:11xDonny"Testing new VMware Image"?
19:46:23n1ssetting up a dev environment in a (sane) linux install is rahter easy though so if you have one (in vm) you can just follow the instructions for real linux
19:46:52 Quit tomers (Read error: 148 (No route to host))
19:47:26xDonnyokay
19:47:26xDonnyin 30 minutes i'll do that
19:47:42xDonnydoes it have all the packages needed to compile?
19:47:44xDonnyand svn?
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19:55:23*TheSeven grumbles at the rockbox audio architecture
19:59:02bertrikTheSeven, sorry to hear that
19:59:03xDonnyif i use this VM to compile rockbox, how can i put iNES in there?
19:59:42TheSevenbertrik: the pcm layer blocks us from using the hack blue_dude suggested
19:59:57TheSeven(and this only works for the pcmbuf anyway, not for plugin-generated audio)
20:00
20:00:26evilnick_xDonny: Patch the source files, then compile
20:01:09bertrikI missed what the hack is, can you describe it in a few words?
20:01:21xDonnyyes but iNES is a folder that you download, can you download things onto this VM?
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20:02:29TheSevenbertrik: splitting the pcmbuf_callback into multiple parts, one fast one that gets the next buffer, and another one to clean up the rest later, after we fed that to the DMA
20:04:38evilnick_xDonny: It's an entire OS virtualised, so while you're using it of course you can download to it, or you can transfer it from the host environment using samba
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20:07:20TheSeventhe only way i see that's left is a copying-around hack that involves another additional audio buffer
20:07:38TheSevenand it would still be nice if we could make auto-reloading DMA transfers work then
20:10:35kugelarg, this stupid grid mode just tricked me
20:10:58kugelreally, a guy (me in this case) buying a touchscreen device does not expect this behavoior
20:11:47evilnick_kugel: You're not blind though
20:11:57bertrikTheSeven, the datasheet I have talks about a "sub-channel mode" and has an 16-bit OFFSET field for "Offset value. This field is used to calculating next memory access
20:11:57bertrikaddress in sub-channel mode.
20:11:57bertrik"
20:12:30TheSeven...whatever this subchannel mode is
20:12:39bertrikthis suggests that there's somehow a possibility to chain DMA transfers to me, but the datasheet doesn't tell what subchannel mode is
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20:13:15TheSeventhis rather sounds like interleaving multiple things to me
20:13:20bertrikI could try again on the meizu m3 to see if I get looping DMA working
20:13:54kugelevilnick: !?
20:15:44evilnick_kugel: Just pointing out that grid mode (while it may not be useful for you) is (perhaps) more useful to someone lacking sight - harking back to the dev-ml
20:19:12bertrikTheSeven, we could have a look at some datasheets from other samsung devices
20:21:04 Quit phanboy4 (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
20:21:58kugelevilnick: yea, grid is probably useful for none of the zero blnd people that buy a touchscreen device
20:23:47Lloreanevilnick_: Grid mode's also very helpful for the sighted user who doesn't want to constantly have to deal with small items to select on the touchscreen (it's easier to use fingers with in some cases) or doesn't want to constantly have to look at the screen for basic operations like "next/prev track"
20:24:54pixelmaI guess blind people might be interested in the D2, especially the version with DAB is quite unique (well plus the Logik Dax)
20:25:02kugelI think we should toggle absolute and grid mode with the hold switch :D
20:26:35evilnick_Llorean: True, there is at least one app (for the iPhone) that allows you to operate the music controls with "swipe" actions, for the usage case of having the player in your pocket.
20:27:42Lloreanevilnick_: Which is more or less exactly what grid mode is useful for. The whole "no tactile feedback" thing is more or less bunk since the virtual buttons extend to the edge of the screen, and the device is nearly all screen. It's pretty easy to get used to pressing the right spots, then it's about as easy to use as a Gigabeat F is blindly (in my personal experience doing so, at least)
20:27:51bertrikswipe to seek or to change volume, something like that?
20:27:55LloreanI do admit the grid mode absolutely is counterintuitive for a touchscreen device, though.
20:29:56*TheSeven just found a couple of songs that make rockbox panic on an undefined instruction at 0x08154bf0, which, according to rockbox.map, belongs to global_settings
20:31:16bertrikit would be nice if new ports could help solve old bugs :)
20:31:48TheSevenit's a whole album that's showing that...
20:32:09TheSeven(which may be related to buffering trying to read something completely different, maybe album art?)
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20:34:30*TheSeven thinks he has found the ultimate hack for the pcmbug
20:35:19TheSeveni somehow feel like dividing the DMA transfers into even smaller parts on the driver level...
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20:41:05TheSevenany audio guru around?
20:41:34TheSevencould it be possible that a non-last packet of less than 1KB would ever be passed down to PCM?
20:41:54 Part Anodl
20:42:12amiconnAhem, global_Settings is data
20:42:38linuxstbTheSeven: Yes, I think so.
20:43:20TheSevenlinuxstb: grr. I think I'll just ignore that and not prevent a clicking in that case. In fact I can't really do something about that.
20:43:21linuxstbTheSeven: But I only really know what audio codecs do, not what happens after then. An audio codec can send anything to the DSP layer (which then passes it to the PCM buffer, then to DMA...)
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20:45:48bertrikIf we could get looping DMA to work, I think the clicking problem could be solved, although with a wasteful copy step from PCM buffer to DMA buffer
20:46:15bertrikIf you can't chain or loop DMA, I think you can't really solve the clicking
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20:49:04TheSevenbertrik: I can get latencies low enough to remove the clicking, but not if i need to call a bloaty PCM api before setting it up again
20:50:21 Quit Strife89 (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
20:50:21TheSevenlooping dma doesn't help always either, as the block sizes you get from the pcm layer are sometimes really odd, with makes that whole stuff a little hard
20:51:05***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:51:22pixelmatomers (logs), gevaerts: I can access the c200 and the microSD on MacOS 10.4 (installing a current build with the Rockbox Utility also went flawless)
20:51:55 Quit Zarggg ()
20:52:39TheSevenbertrik: I can think of some hack that doesn't even involve copying, if I get the timing right
20:53:08gevaertspixelma: nice! So all we need to do know is remember this if people have problems
20:53:31TheSeven5ms should be long enough to never click but short enough so that the codec doesn't have a chance to kill the buffer too soon
20:57:23 Nick Strife1989 is now known as Strife89 (n=michael@adsl-81-160-168.mcn.bellsouth.net)
20:57:51xDonnyi get the error arm-elf-gcc: command not found although i downloaded and installed it, also i put itin the bashrc so i don't know whats happening
20:59:17rasherxDonny: did you re-run bashrc? (or just login again)
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20:59:28xDonnyi'll restart lol
21:00
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21:00:12xDonnyhow do i go about restarting...
21:00:16xDonnyi hit exit and it took me back into the login
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21:03:41saratogareopening the command line window should be enough
21:03:51 Quit stoffel (Remote closed the connection)
21:07:04 Quit itcheg (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
21:07:12xDonnyerror: lang.h: no such file or directory
21:09:41linuxstbxDonny: That's the only error?
21:09:44 Join dfkt_ [0] (i=dfkt@unaffiliated/dfkt)
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21:13:29xDonnyyes
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21:14:29TheSevenxDonny: can you pastebin the whole output including your command line?
21:17:19n1sxDonny: did you install all the other required apps, like perl?
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21:25:12gitsterHow much do rockbox developers care about downward compatibility of file formats?
21:26:47gitsterI am interested in recording and restoring the playback speed and pitch across system reboot. If I were listening to an audiobook at 120% of normal speed before I shutdown, I can restart playing at the same speed when I turn the unit back on next time that way and continue listening to the book at the faster speed.
21:27:03gitsterI am also interested in adding these new information to bookmarks, so that I can flip between an audiobook bookmark that plays faster (because I was playing it faster when I made the bookmark) and a music bookmark that plays normally (because I was playing it at the normal speed).
21:27:03gitster
21:27:10gitsterWhen naively implemented, this would change the format of system resume data and bookmark files in such a way that an older version of rockbox would not be able to read, and I'd like to know what the generally accepted approach is among the rockbox developers to handle a situation like this.
21:29:43gevaertshm, I like those ideas, but on the other hand I also care about my bookmarks :)
21:29:57linuxstbgitster: I don't think anyone can say what the generally accept approach is, but I can't see a problem as long as old bookmarks are still readable. I think it's reasonable to expect users to not downgrade.
21:32:32LloreanI agree with linuxstb.
21:34:42gevaertsFor the playback control file I'm not sure. Do we need to keep that working on upgrades?
21:36:50gitsterupgrades is easy; the new code checks if the file is older and pretend the new values are recorded as their "normal" settings. I am talking about downgrades.
21:36:56LloreanI think it's okay to break it occasionally, but if it's going to be broken we should try to plan some way to make sure similar changes *won't* break it going forward in the future.
21:37:42gevaertsI don't think it's worth the effort trying to support downgrades
21:37:44gitsterThe old code won't know that you added new fields, so if downward compatibility is an issue, you would need to find a hole in the old code's parser to sneak new information in such a way that the old parser will ignore it.
21:39:06TheSevengitster: what Llorean meant was that we should change that in a way that the new parser ignores certain unknown things so that we can slip those things in easier in the future
21:39:51gitsterYes, I know (our messages crossed). That's "you prepare a hole so that in the future you do not have to looko for it".
21:40:09TheSevenyep
21:40:32gitsterFor example, your read_line() will read up to CRLF but does not stop at seeing NUL, and the current code in bookmark.c does not go beyond NUL on the line.
21:41:11gitsterSo in theory, a line with the new fields could be like "know fields NUL new fields CRLF", and older rockbox won't know the difference.
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21:43:42gevaertsI think we need to favour clarity over downgrade support here
21:44:52JdGordon|downagrade support is not something we need to worry about
21:45:01*n1s agrees with that
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21:58:03saratogai think suggesting that people not carry their settings over when downgrading is a good idea
21:59:46JdGordon|suggesting peopel ever go back to an older version isnt a good idea... except for very rare circumstances...
22:00
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22:14:34TheSeventhese damn codecs are just too fast
22:14:45gevaertstry ape
22:21:05n1sor HE-AAC
22:21:12JdGordon|kugel: are you worried about the panicf() or the stack implementation or what? not having to worry about the current statusbar state is *much* simpler than whats in svn
22:23:43kugelboth ;)
22:24:24kugelI mainly want it to be a separate patch
22:24:48kugelit has actually nothing to do with convertig the classic statusbar
22:25:49JdGordon|well yes and no
22:26:16JdGordon|I'm 90% there so im probably not going to split it up
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22:26:41kugelok, so ignore me
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22:27:06JdGordon|if you have concerns other than splitting it im all ears
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22:27:27kugeli do think that panicf is broken
22:27:41JdGordon|I'm still a bit WTF by the skin_parser change
22:27:53JdGordon|broken?
22:28:49kugeland as I don't think that your stuff is simpler at all, I'm against that change
22:29:04kugelit's not even saving function calls
22:29:38JdGordon|one bit at a time... how is panicf broken?
22:31:09kugelpanicf itself isn't broken, but code that relies on panicf just to replace a working and dead simple solution is broken IMO
22:32:06kugeland remember that do_menu() is still going to need to know about the current state in order for hide_bars to be useful
22:32:09JdGordon|that is only there so *if* it ever happens (and it shouldnt) you get a message instead of a data abort
22:32:29JdGordon|hide_bars was another bad band-aid
22:33:18kugelso tell me what's the advantage of what you're doing?
22:33:23kugelI can't see one
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22:35:02JdGordon|if a screen wants to force the bar on/off it doesnt need to remember what its previous state was, it doesnt need to know that crazy bit-or'ed value, and its a simpler API...
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22:44:34kugelJdGordon|: these are very minor, while I find the shaky panicf rather major, but you're going to ignore me anyway
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22:45:54*TheSeven has mostly click-free sound now
22:45:59TheSevenbertrik: yay!
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22:51:09***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:53:39TheSevenbertrik: the DMA sometimes seems to enter self-refresh mode all by itself
22:53:57TheSevensometimes accompanied by a panic
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22:59:55TheSevensome occasional clicks left during boosting...
23:00
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23:02:49 Quit NoGare (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
23:06:21*TheSeven wonders why his wps was just trashed
23:12:05 Quit StealthyXIIGer (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:13:29 Join lifeless__ [0] (n=lifeless@94.51.253.19)
23:15:48TheSevenI can't get rid of occasional clicks :-/
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23:39:11bertrikTheSeven, nice
23:39:22*bertrik is getting some more colors on his meizu m6 sp
23:39:41TheSevenbertrik: something's screwing with PLL0PMS, even though I can't find any code touching it :-/
23:39:42bertriksomehow it still seems to hang when enabling the LCD data pins
23:40:00TheSevenbertrik: IRQs disabled?
23:40:26bertrikyes, I think so, I'm no CPSR expert though, I'm writing it with 0xD3 now to disable interrupts
23:40:38TheSevenshould work
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23:41:26bertrikthe LCD controller is a DMA master, maybe it's accessing invalid memory or something, could that cause an exception?
23:41:51TheSevenhm, shouldn't block the CPU at least
23:42:04TheSevenmaybe it's just flooding the system bus?
23:42:08TheSevenhow is the clocking?
23:42:11bertrikcould also be
23:42:51bertrikI did get at some point a bit of flashing on the LCD that could be controlled by setting a clock divider. I set it quite low now, same as the OF
23:44:10TheSevenyou're clocking with those insane PLL factors off a 32kHz clock?
23:46:38TheSevenwhat's the SDRAM port speed set at? or do you have an IRAM framebuffer?
23:47:57 Quit n1s ("Lämnar")
23:50:32bertrikit's supposed to be IRAM in my test program
23:55:11 Quit ender` (" In every computer error, there are at least two human errors, including the error of blaming it on the computer.")

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