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#rockbox log for 2009-11-08

00:00:00bertrikhm I think I made a mistake already with the M6 SP buttons... also the left/right buttons are controlled by the qt411 touch strip controller
00:00:05bertrik*not controlled
00:00:32*TheSeven thinks he has the same flash, but isn't 100% sure with all these similar ids
00:00:38CIA-6New commit by 03kkurbjun (r23564): M:Robe 500: Disable LED above screen and add a change for the 256 color blitter
00:01:04UtchybannTheSeven: and I use 'charge during usb connection' = Yes
00:01:04bertrikthere is a signal coming from the keypad that goes into the ADC, so the left/right/menu buttons are probably done with resistor dividers
00:01:52TheSevenbertrik: /me considers this an ugly hack
00:03:23saratoga_labUnhelpful: have you seen the test_codec ones I made?
00:03:57TheSevenNAND: Bank 0: Chip type 2555D5EC
00:04:29TheSevenso it's pretty unlikely that it's the chip, as it's working fine for me
00:05:26Unhelpfulsaratoga: i don't think i have... i just grabbed a CC-licensed track i have and started transcoding.
00:05:46saratoga_labUnhelpful: http://download.rockbox.org/test_files/
00:06:09saratoga_labFWIW if you feel like it, send files for the missing formats to Bagder
00:06:50UtchybannTheSeven: copying 75M with cp produces the same effect as a sync after unzipping rockbox.
00:06:59Unhelpfullooks like you've got it covered. this is why i asked. ;)
00:07:36UtchybannTheSeven: could it be so slow ?
00:08:10TheSevenif it apparently hangs for some seconds from time to time, that's normal
00:08:38TheSeven(that happens when the FTL runs out of scratch space and needs to tidy up things first before accepting further writes)
00:08:51saratoga_labUnhelpful, Bagder: http://duke.edu/~mgg6/rockbox/applelossless.m4a and http://duke.edu/~mgg6/rockbox/a52_stereo_192.ac3
00:09:40Unhelpfulare those of the same file?
00:10:00UtchybannTheSeven: ok, but why my other nano does not behave like that ? the cp just finished (more than 5min with very long pause).
00:11:00TheSevenUtchybann: does dmesg complain about anything?
00:11:18UtchybannTheSeven: no
00:11:40TheSevenwhat's the nand id of your other one? some chips are faster than others, although not by magnitudes
00:17:11UtchybannTheSeven: if I'm right it is the same id...
00:17:37UtchybannTheSeven: No... it is a 2555D3EC
00:20:14UtchybannTheSeven: I know your FTL code is slower the OFW but it is almost unusable (cp+sync of 75Mo is now more than 15min and still not finished).
00:20:15*TheSeven will just once again try copying over 280MB of audio test files to his ipod
00:21:12TheSevenhm, I'm at ~5 minutes for these 280MB, and i have the same chip
00:21:17TheSevenno idea what's wrong with yours
00:22:04TheSeven150MB copied, still running fine
00:22:06saratoga_labUnhelpful: yes
00:22:23UtchybannTheSeven: with the OFW, the speed is the same as my other nano. And commenting nand_power_down seems to fixes the problem.
00:22:35TheSevenalso the speed problem?
00:22:50UtchybannTheSeven: yes
00:22:53TheSeventhen it's probably powering it down all the time
00:23:02TheSevencan you try increasing the powerdown timeout?
00:23:36TheSevenare you using USB1.1 or USB2 for the data connection?
00:24:22UtchybannTheSeven: usb2. same cable, same computer, same os.
00:28:20TheSevenhm, the storage indicator is on all the time while transferring data?
00:28:40TheSevenerm, is it normal for aac-he-64 to be harder to decode than ape-high?
00:28:41UtchybannTheSeven: yes
00:30:14TheSevenouch. now i also have a "use itunes to restore"
00:30:29TheSevenbut not after copying the files
00:30:30UtchybannTheSeven: it seems to behave like you describe 'it apparently hangs for some seconds from time to time' but seconds looks like minutes.
00:30:42TheSevenseveral reboots later, while trying codec test files and hitting a lockup
00:31:08TheSevenUtchybann: my suspicion is that it's powering down the nand between every (few) request(s)
00:31:14TheSeventhe question is why...
00:31:35TheSevencan you try to increase that inactivity timeout in the nand thread to like 1 second?
00:32:17UtchybannTheSeven: sure, but any hint about the file to modify ?
00:33:30 Nick Strife1989 is now known as Strife89 (n=michael@adsl-146-206-245.mcn.bellsouth.net)
00:33:43TheSevens5l8700/as-nand-s5l8700.c iirc
00:33:47UtchybannTheSeven: I'm running a mutex+nand_powered = 0, nand_power_down function. So the nand is not really powered down ?
00:34:28TheSevenUtchybann: yes, it isn't powered down, but it's being powered up nevertheless, which involves issueing a reset and some waiting
00:34:43TheSevenyou could try commenting that though
00:35:11TheSeven(just strip the power_on function similar to the power_off to only the mutex and powered stuff)
00:35:53UtchybannTheSeven: sync finish. about 30min to copy 75MB.
00:38:06TheSeventhat's 1:10 off
00:38:30TheSeventry stripping power_on, too
00:38:35TheSeventhis should improve that a lot
00:39:56UtchybannTheSeven: should I still try setting inactivity timeout to 1s ?
00:41:50TheSevenshould have a similar effect
00:41:59TheSeventry both seperately
00:42:05Utchybannok
00:42:07TheSevenshould be a quick test if it indeed works
00:42:29 Quit ender (" Female software engineers become sexually irresistible at the age of consent, and remain that way until about thirty minute")
00:42:34 Quit DerPapst ("Leaving.")
00:45:03UtchybannTheSeven: strange, copy seems fine, umount too, but rebooting the nano give me the nice 'restore ipod' screen.
00:46:33TheSevenwhich one did you try right now?
00:47:25Utchybannnone. I just try to upload the new patched rockbox under OFW.
00:48:30UtchybannTheSeven: to mutex+nand_powered = 0 seems to trash the nand content. Even the mbr is trashed.
00:53:55liarTheSeven: maybe a delay after every clear w fifo is the best solution until we know whats really going on with those chips? because that is whats working for me - no ftl panic, no use itunes to restore, no lost files/folders since 3 days now
00:54:51TheSevenliar: why should that improve the situation?
00:55:17TheSeventhe only additional code that's currently run because of the powerdown is the powerup code, which already has a delay
00:56:00TheSevenit seems like we're dealing with at least 3 seperate issues here
00:56:50TheSevenliar: did you test if it really works flawlessly if you remove the delays again, but also the shutdown?
00:56:58TheSeveni.e. keep nand on all the time
00:57:19UtchybannTheSeven: *PANIC* ftl nand driver init failed.
00:57:36Utchybanncould be my manual restore.
00:57:40TheSevenwith both poweron and poweroff commented?
00:57:58UtchybannTheSeven: yes with both.
00:58:05TheSevenbesides the mutexes?
00:58:14TheSevenhm, just reboot and try again
00:58:20liaryes i tried that
00:58:22TheSevenif this is reproducible, it's weird
00:58:33TheSevenliar: and it worked?
01:00
01:00:24liarno not really
01:00:29UtchybannTheSeven: can't boot rockbox panic. OFW boots fine.
01:00:31liarthat was on wednesday
01:00:34liari tried really everything
01:01:26 Join Blue_Dude [0] (n=chatzill@rockbox/developer/Blue-Dude)
01:01:40Blue_DudeHi. Who's working on the Nano 2G port?
01:01:48TheSevenBlue_Dude: me
01:01:54TheSevenwhat's up with it again?
01:03:19Blue_DudeI just answered the bug report at FS #10757 and starting to engage the problem. Then I noticed the hardware the user was on. I've been working on pcmbuf code a lot lately and it seemed to apply but since the port isn't complete I'm not sure. It could be hardware.
01:05:03TheSevenHm, I already had this
01:05:10TheSevenbut I thought i fixed it.
01:05:31Blue_DudeIf it's hardware, and the box freezes playback for a second, then I'm thinking the buffer is getting starved. Codec boost problem?
01:05:57TheSeventhe last time it was buffer wrapping
01:06:17Blue_DudeThe pcmbuffer wrapped?!?
01:06:54Blue_DudeThe pcm chunk buffer, the codec buffer, the pcm internal buffer...?
01:06:58TheSeventhe pcm driver managed to somehow read a chunk of audio that was just being written by the codec
01:07:23Blue_DudeYeah, you worked on that a couple of weeks ago. I thought that was done.
01:07:29TheSevenso the codec was obviously overwriting something while it was still being played
01:07:33 Quit amiconn (Nick collision from services.)
01:07:36TheSevenyes, i thought that, too
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01:07:51 Quit pixelma (Nick collision from services.)
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01:08:05Blue_DudeHe's using r23505. Is that recent enough?
01:08:12 Nick pixelma_ is now known as pixelma (i=quassel@rockbox/staff/pixelma)
01:08:35TheSeveni committed my changes in r23324
01:09:27TheSeven(and realized yesterday that i broke mpegplayer in doing so)
01:09:56 Join Blue_Dude_ [0] (n=chatzill@rockbox/developer/Blue-Dude)
01:10:41Blue_Dude_Well that revision should have worked for him. Are you seeing that issue?
01:11:18TheSevenI'm running 23338+boosting right now
01:11:23 Join kugel [0] (n=kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel)
01:11:25TheSevenand I can't reproduce it
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01:11:59TheSeventhat wrapping problem never made it into svn, this was just a temporary issue i was having while working out that pcm driver rework
01:12:12Blue_Dude_Maybe it
01:12:33TheSevenlet me quickly upgrade to a vanilla 23505
01:12:34Blue_Dude_Maybe it's something else... Hopefully we'll get something to go on.
01:13:12Blue_Dude_I was afraid I broke it with some pcmbuf/playback changes I made earlier in the week. Maybe I did.
01:13:38TheSevendid you hear of similar things on other targets?
01:13:59Blue_Dude_No. It got may attention because it was the first I'd heard of it.
01:14:03Blue_Dude_-my-
01:14:17TheSeveni see a way how this could still happen in theory, but that seems impossible
01:14:30Blue_Dude_It's likely to happen then. :)
01:14:47TheSevenI'm currently requesting a new chunk while i have still 1024 bytes to play, in order to give the pcmbuf enough time to supply that new chunk
01:15:11UtchybannTheSeven: with 1s timeout it works (and mutex+powered=0).
01:15:52TheSevenif the codec would be fast enough to fill the chunk that just got freed faster than i play 1024 bytes, there may be some *very* brief bit of new audio that could slip in (<1024 bytes), so I think this is too short to be even identified as such
01:16:29 Quit bertrik ("De groeten")
01:17:24Blue_Dude_I don't see how that could be. The pcmbuf code would simply have the chunk available the next time the callback is run. It shouldn't serve up random data.
01:18:14TheSevenit could pass the buffer that it thinks is free (but there's 1024 bytes to go in there, as I'm requesting the new one ahead of time) to the codec
01:19:21UtchybannTheSeven: ... too fast. can't reboot after power down. need to restore.
01:19:46Blue_Dude_I'm not wrapping my head around that possible bug yet. I'll have to look at the code.
01:20:42TheSevenat least with the old code (no idea if this is affected by your changes), as soon as a new buffer is requested (from the pcm driver side), the previous one is marked as free
01:20:54Blue_Dude_He says now that it's not pausing then resuming, just blanking output for a second or so.
01:21:11TheSevenso if the codec is waiting for a buffer to write to, it may grab that one, and write to it, while I'm still playing it's tail
01:21:36TheSevenpausing/resuming in terms of audio or playback icon on the lcd?
01:22:38 Quit AndyIL (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:22:45Blue_Dude_That shouldn't happen. It shouldn't show it as being free until the pcm driver reports back as being finished with it. Even so, overrunning the buffer is very difficult: it's flushed too often.
01:23:20TheSeventhe pcm driver reports it as being finished when everything but the last 1024 bytes is finished
01:23:44TheSevenso that i can play those 1024 bytes while waiting for the slow pcmbuf to give me more
01:24:03Blue_Dude_I thought it might have been a stutter, meaning pausing playback while waiting for data, then resuming. He says now that it's more like muting the output for a second.
01:25:14Blue_Dude_What's the chances you could do a memcpy of those last few bytes before calling them done?
01:25:47Blue_Dude_BTW, 1024 bytes meaning 256 samples?
01:25:52TheSevenyes
01:25:59TheSevenin order to hit those 1024 bytes fast enough, a codec would both need to be at least 3000% realtime and bypassing the data cache
01:26:08TheSevenI can't imagine that this will ever happen
01:26:24TheSevendamn. stkov usb.
01:26:37TheSevenmaybe this is related to all that apparent nand trouble we're seeing?
01:26:44 Quit Blue_Dude (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:26:55Blue_Dude_I didn't think it sounded likely. There are a few circumstances that the callback flushes the buffer itself, but not at the beginning of a track.
01:28:48Blue_Dude_I guess it's possible to start writing to a chunk while its last bytes are being played, but the timing of that is unbelievable.
01:30:13Blue_Dude_Maybe a short chunk at the beginning of the buffer is played, then freed, meanwhile there's no room at the end, so it wraps, and overwrites... possible I suppose.
01:30:28 Quit kugel (Remote closed the connection)
01:31:34Blue_Dude_How about a nice 1024 byte memcpy to your own little private buffer before releasing the chunk?
01:31:49Blue_Dude_He asked hopefully?
01:32:35TheSevenLet's first check out the actual behavior
01:32:57 Quit Llorean ("Leaving.")
01:33:20TheSevenhm, can't reproduce that behavior with a stock r23505 with default settings and only mp3 files
01:38:11 Join Lss [0] (n=Lss@cm46.delta91.maxonline.com.sg)
01:42:58TheSevenhm, there is some very light clicking sometimes, which *could* be a very very tiny chunk of new audio that's slipping in, or just a remnant of old audio just being cut instead of bringing it to a zero crossing gracefully
01:43:17TheSevenbut that's barely noticable even if i hunt for it
01:44:42Blue_Dude_This probably isn't something likely to be tracked down in the sim, is it? Specific to hardware?
01:47:23TheSevendefinitely.
01:47:43TheSeveneven on the hardware it's going to be hard
01:49:20Blue_Dude_memcpy :)
01:49:51Blue_Dude_Anyway, I'm off. I'll keep plugging away at pcmbuf and maybe come across something that would help.
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04:12:46sinthetekcan someone tell me how to scan forward through radio stations without making it save presets?
04:14:05sintheteki seem to only be able to go through stations one at a time pretty much. is there a seek function?
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04:40:58Unhelpfulthere were problems with -O levels 2, 3 or s on ARM with our existing toolchain? i thought it might be worth revisiting the -O choice in light of the codec speed issues kugel's seen with gcc-4.4.1/eabi.
04:45:39Unhelpfulmost of the differences seem to be on the order of 0-5%. the flac -5 sample takes 14% longer to decode on eabi, and the flac -8 sample is 13% slower.
04:46:16Unhelpfulthose are both on e200, and compared to a "normal" build of the same revision
04:50:14saratogaUnhelpful: I don't recall problems with -O options in 4.0.3
04:50:46saratogaregarding the flac issue, profiling flac might be very interesting
04:50:47Unhelpfulis there a reason we use -O instead of perhaps -O2 or -Os, then?
04:51:06saratogai think various codecs use different settings
04:51:17saratogafor MP3 i remember we tested each and picked the fastest
04:52:24Unhelpfulhrm, i see. so i should expect to see no change from setting -O2 in the generated Makefile, then...
04:53:56saratogai see mp3 sets it to -O2, but other make files have no explicit setting
04:55:49Unhelpfula few other change it. FLAC doesn't, so perhaps we'll see a change after all. it may be that the big hit it takes is due to some options being bumped out of -O and only enabled for higher levels...
05:00
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05:15:53saratogawhats the command to see full make output?
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05:23:02rashersaratoga: make V=1
05:27:29CIA-6New commit by 03blue_dude (r23565): pcmbuf: moved some functions around, no functional changes yet
05:42:55saratogaUnhelpful: -O2 was actually faster for WMA on my e200v1 by a little (265% vs. 271% realtime)
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05:55:17saratoga_labUnhelpful: any interest in trying it with your compiler build?
05:56:38Unhelpfulsaratoga: i was thinking myself that i ought to try each level for each codec. no time now, though, with all of the makefile changes it would need.
05:59:11saratoga_labUnhelpful: want a patch?
05:59:45Unhelpfulsaratoga: if you have one ready, i might get to it sooner, but i still need to be getting to bed, for now.
06:00
06:00:39saratogaUnhelpful: http://pastebin.com/m756753c6
06:00:41saratogafor WMA
06:00:54saratogabut i think i can change all codecs to -O2 if you would prefer by changing codecs.make
06:01:06saratogaactually not a patch, just a new libwma.make
06:01:50Unhelpfulthe individual codec library makefiles all seem to tweak opts, i suspect they'll each need editing. i'll take a look at it when i get a chance
06:02:45saratogaUnhelpful: most do not specify a -O level
06:03:02saratogaaside from vorbis and mp3
06:03:22Unhelpfulsilly me, checking the codecs that count first. ;)
06:03:59saratogaUnhelpful: http://pastebin.com/m1942b017
06:04:32saratogaopps
06:04:49saratogahttp://pastebin.com/m22cb96d9
06:04:53saratogathat one should work i think
06:07:24Unhelpfulif you want to play with this toolchain, my rockbox tree patch is here: http://pastie.org/688575 and the gcc patch is here: http://pastie.org/688576
06:07:52Unhelpfulit installs as arm-elf-eabi, so you can pretty easily keep your other arm toolchain
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06:09:23saratogahuh flac got a bit faster too
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06:11:24Unhelpfuli guess i should compare all -O options with our standard toolchain, as well :)
06:11:44saratogaAAC-LC also gets very slightly faster
06:11:50saratogai'll do a full test
06:13:44saratogai don't have time to build the other tool chain this weekend, but i can do 4.0.3 easily enough
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06:20:38saratogaanyone want to try this on Coldifre?
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06:27:25Unhelpfulthanks for doing even that much, codec tests are tedious. you'll be using the samples you linked earlier?
06:28:16saratoga_labUnhelpful: yes
06:28:29saratoga_labi didn't change any codec makefiles, so if they change the O level, it doesn't get changed
06:28:44saratoga_labhowever, if the codecs set the level on ARM, they were probably tuned for 4.0.3 anyway
06:29:21saratoga_labalso i'd like to change the wma level, but not without someone trying it on coldfire
06:29:32saratoga_labthough i guess i could just change it for one
06:30:04Unhelpfuli'll make sure to change the codec makefiles too, so that it can be re-tuned for 4.4.1, if we do end up using it.
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07:39:27saratogaUnhelpful: most codecs are pretty similar with O2, the exception is wavpack which gets almost 5 Mhz faster with O2 then O
07:43:33saratogathe wavpack speed up is consistent with the performance lost in my test verses stripwax's in 2007
07:43:43saratogapresumably O2 was disabled at some point for wavpack
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07:45:38saratogaanyone awake with a coldfire player?
07:48:15saratogajudging by the wiki, the problem effects coldfire too, so i'm going to fix it for both
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08:04:16CIA-6New commit by 03saratoga (r23566): Reenable -O2 for Wavpack, which appears to have been lost during makefile clean up. Improves wavpack decoding performance by several MHz on ARM and ...
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09:41:14pixelmasinthetek: if you haven't found out yet - it depends on whether you are in "Scan" or in "Preset" mode. There should be a line telling you this in the radio screen and the manual will tell you the button (combo) to press to change between the modes (don't have an e200 so would have to look it up myself)
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11:04:50amiconnsaratoga: Do you think a set of mp2 testfiles would be useful?
11:08:34bertrikmarkun, gevaerts, how sure are we that the meizu m6sp contains a qt411 touch strip controller (and not a qt1106 like in the m6sl and m3)?
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11:12:47saratoga_amiconn: couldn't hurt
11:13:29saratoga_though atrac and shn might be more interesting if you're out to find obscure encoders :)
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11:29:40n1samiconn: collecting an official test set?
11:31:01saratoga_n1s: http://download.rockbox.org/test_files/
11:33:30n1snice
11:50:17saratoga_has anyone ever run test_codec on a D2?
11:50:23saratoga_i'm curious how well the telechips core works
11:51:39saratoga_kkurbjun: test_codec on the Mrobe 500 would also be neat if you're ever bored
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12:00:53bertrikTheSeven, what kind of protocol did you use for your nano2g USB bootloader during initial development?
12:01:35bertrikI'm thinking of writing a simple bootloader for the meizus that allows me to send code to DRAM and start it
12:02:31bertrikI'd like to use a standard protocol, like USB DFU
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12:03:16bertrikand hopefully find some pre-existing DFU tool that handles the host side
12:07:37Bob_C_Although the DFU class is a standard, I think you need a different implementation for each target
12:10:50bertrikyes, the client side will be target specific (although we could make a common framework for that in rockbox), I think the host side can be generic.
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12:15:47Bob_C_so you could use dfu-util to download to any Rockbox player that supports DFU?
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12:19:33bertrikBob_C_, yes (for targets where it makes sense)
12:26:51pixelmaI'm hearing pops and clicks (sounds a bit like a vinyl) in an r23566 M3 sim playing MP3 - not in silent parts though and not all files show it to the same amount. Can't remember if I ever heard those before
12:28:58pixelmamaybe pops and clicks isn't the correct description
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12:30:18pixelmamore like a ticking
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12:36:02TheSevenbertrik: I used something proprietary as I didn't only want a bootloader, but also some other features like DRAM dumps, which just need a faster protocol than DFU
12:36:50bertrikok thanks
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12:37:03saratoga_can't that be reused on the Meizu?
12:37:26TheSevenIt could be (would have the advantage that we would already have the client side implemented)
12:37:44TheSevenbut it needs bulk transfers, which may be a little harder to implement on the device side
12:37:58TheSeven(but that work will need to be done some day anyways)
12:38:05saratoga_are the USB cores different on the Meizu parts?
12:38:12bertriksaratoga, yes
12:38:40TheSevenI think they are the same on the different meizus (bertrik?), but different from the nanos
12:38:43bertrikdifferent from the nano2g I mean
12:41:23TheSevenhow usable is the current tcc driver?
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12:43:41bertriknot sure, a quick comparison with the meizu bootloaders showed that quite a few things were missing in our driver
12:44:16bertrikalso the tcc driver has some target specific code that gets in the way (could be #ifdeffed out)
12:44:49TheSeventhe advantage of the iBugger protocol vs. DFU would be simplicity in the request handling. the protocol is completely stateless, and each request has a single request packet and a single response packet
12:45:45TheSeveneach packet has a 16-byte header (where the command number, things like destination address and size, etc. are stored) and optionally a payload that may be up to 512 bytes per packet, depending on what the chip supports
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12:47:50TheSevenso uploading some code would be just a bunch of independent memory write requests (where the pc side can specify where and in which order things are written to), and then an execute request, which gets passed an address to jump to and a stack pointer
12:48:51TheSevenoptionally there are other features like resetting the device (for convenience or automating something, or just if the device doesn't have an easy way to reset it externally)
12:50:11TheSevenDFU on the other hand is a standard, and control-only protocol, which is probably easier for the driver, but needs some more sophisticated request handling
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12:55:25bertrikok, I'll think about it a bit more
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13:11:46TheSevenin the long term, you could implement both
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13:12:23TheSevenand which one will be done faster will mainly depend on how hard it is to implement bulk transfers on that chip
13:15:20bertrikthe way I'm debugging now is to use the DFU mode built into the processor ROM (not sure if this is USB DFU compliant) to send a samsung flash writer application which in turn receives and writes my rockbox bootloader to NOR
13:16:23TheSeven...the way DFU usually works.
13:17:18TheSevencan't you directly send your payload instead of the samsung thing?
13:17:21bertrikI want to create something similar to the samsung flash writer, except write to SDRAM instead writing NOR everytime
13:17:48bertrikTheSeven, yes in theory, but only to iram, and I haven't actually made that work
13:18:52bertrikand as far as I understand, I can only send it to the 2nd half of IRAM
13:19:16TheSevenwould make sense (on the nano it's the first 128KB)
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13:20:40TheSevenshouldn't 128KB be sufficient for what you're currently doing?
13:20:54bertrikgetting downloads to IRAM to work would be nice for initial debugging, so if anyone is looking for something to hack on for the meizus... please go ahead :)
13:21:23bertrikfor running a full rockbox, I think we need the bigger SDRAM
13:21:50TheSevenhm, for running a full rockbox we'll need nand anyways...
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13:22:17TheSevenor maybe for initial development a ramdisk
13:23:23TheSevenso your current plan is to burn some kind of iBugger (incorporated into a RB bootloader?) into NOR?
13:24:00bertrikyes
13:24:21TheSevenuploading that to IRAM instead via DFU would be nice of course
13:24:49bertrikindeed
13:30:27bertrikI tried a lot of things to stop the meizu from hanging right after configuring a set of pins for LCD output. One of the things I now suspect is that these pins are somehow shared with the internal NOR flash, causing a conflict between NOR access and LCD operation. So I'd like to run stuff from RAM instead of NOR and see if it helps.
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13:31:04bertrikI could probably get that to work too with a copy-step from NOR to RAM and then executing from RAM.
13:32:59TheSevenprobably.
13:33:30TheSevenbtw what is failing with running things via dfu-iram?
13:33:53TheSevenis DFU rejecting the payload, or does it just hang after trying to execute it?
13:34:48bertrikyes, the latter, probably some misunderstanding of crt0/lds issues on my side
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13:35:11TheSevenfixing that should be relatively easy then
13:37:02TheSevenif they would only have used the nano2g otg, things would be easy
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13:53:00TheSevendammit
13:53:34TheSeventhe r23338M bin differs from my r23338M source tree
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13:57:02TheSevenaha!
13:57:04pixelmakugel: you said album art on the greyscale remote(s) should work now? I'm asking because I can't get it to work in an X5 sim (r23566) - even tried with a super simple WPS that just disables the status bar and shows the album art and which works as is on the main display. And a second try shows me that also %?C fails (just displays what I put in the no branch, trying with a %?C<yes|no>)
13:57:30TheSevenliar: removing that sleep you introduced after the fifo flush in nand_reset fixes it for me
13:57:56TheSevenit's stkov'ing once again, so let's increase the stack again
13:57:56liardamn
13:58:29pixelmakugel: other greyscale things work (like the shades for viewports)
13:58:32liarTheSeven: could you try a loop instead of a sleep? because that sleep freezes my ipod sometimes and the loop not
13:59:06TheSevenI'll first try to get to a fully-working state again, to get rid of noise introduced by other problems
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14:00:41kugelpixelma: ok, I'll try to have a look
14:01:36TheSevenliar: r23338M + removing that sleep + 8K of additional USB stack = fully working
14:01:49TheSevenlet's try to rebase that on r23505
14:02:06liarhm
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14:06:27liarmaybe that sleep is just too much
14:08:35pixelmakugel: I meant above that %?C shows the no branch there even though album art is present and the main display can show it - last I tried what happens when the main WPS has no album art but there was no difference on the remote display
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14:11:31amiconnsaratoga_: Are those testfiles on rockbox.org encoded from the same source?
14:11:55saratoga_amiconn: yes
14:11:57amiconnAs for mp2, I could encode at a few bitrates with my Amiga; there's a rather good mp2 encoder for it
14:12:02amiconn(Pegase)
14:12:14saratoga_theres toolame for linux as well
14:12:30amiconnI know. What I don't know is which one is better
14:14:54CIA-6New commit by 03teru (r23567): FS #10338: Add "use morse input " entry to settings menu ...
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14:16:00saratoga_for our purposes I don't think it matters
14:23:45nlsdo we want a "floor0" vorbis file?
14:23:55saratoga_probably not
14:24:52saratoga_eventually i want to drop support for them so we can shrink the audio buffer a little
14:27:03nlshmm, feels a bit wrong to drop codec support... how much would we gain?
14:27:23nlsand isn't aac using lots of memory too?
14:28:25saratoga_yes aac needs to be fixed first
14:28:30saratoga_or rather the MP4 parser
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14:33:21TheSevenliar: r23566 + nosleeponflush + bigusbstack = worksforme
14:38:13CIA-6New commit by 03bluebrother (r23568): Rename print_error() in ipodpatcher and sansapatcher. ...
14:41:32TheSevendamn
14:41:41TheSeventhere's mutex trouble again
14:41:43Unhelpfulis there any benefit in terms of encoding efficiency for floor0? i just wonder if it's something that may come back for some quality levels for some inputs
14:41:57TheSevensomehow a nand_power_down manages to slip in while committing blocks
14:42:23saratoga_Unhelpful: no its been depreciated by Xiph since before vorbis was officially released IIRC
14:42:45saratoga_as far as I know it has no advantage over floor 1
14:43:46nlsUnhelpful: i don't think it's better in any way but it is explicitly stated somewhere that a propewr vorbis decoder should support it and we have had bug reports for such files not working
14:44:12saratoga_wasn't it broken for years before someone noticed ?
14:44:37nlsso some samples are in circulation although no current encoder makes such files afaik
14:45:02saratoga_theres old prerelease encoders that can make them
14:45:14nlssaratoga_: i don't know, at least one sample was broken before the codec and malloc buffers were merged but another sample worked fine
14:45:26saratoga_and xiph is ridiculous about what should be supported, which is why they ended up with a codec that expects almost 1 MB of malloc in the worst case, but needs a couple hundred KB in the typical case
14:45:31nlssaratoga_: yes, i know
14:45:52saratoga_we flat out ignore some of their stuff like chaining
14:45:58nlsis there actually a limit on the memory requirements
14:46:03saratoga_there is not
14:46:15nlschaining is just stupid
14:46:18saratoga_fortunately no one has made an encoder that expects 8MB of decoder memory
14:46:25saratoga_yes it is
14:46:54saratoga_i think the worst case file i've seen was about 800KB or so, but i don't know for sure how bad they get
14:47:33UtchybannTheSeven: hi. I just test r23531 + bigusbstack. Same problem :(
14:47:51TheSevenyes, I know what's going on.
14:48:07TheSevenr23566+bigusbstack fails for me, too
14:48:18TheSevenit's a nand thread vs. block commit race
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14:49:09saratoga_regardless i'm not planning to do anything about floor0 soon, first i'd have to fix AAC, and before that I want to make MP3 fast, and before that i have to finish the new mdct library and my TTA decoder . . .
14:49:29saratoga_and i guess school or something
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14:54:29UtchybannTheSeven: nice to hear that you have a more precise idea about the problem.
14:55:20TheSevenI have no idea why it makes things break in terms of ftl corruption, but at least i know why it's getting ridiculously slow sometimes
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15:03:57nlssaratoga_: wow, lot's of stuff on the TODO :)
15:06:31pixelmakugel: seems to work somewhat in an M5 sim but the album art display on the remote looks garbled (should look exactly the same as both displays have the same depth and I am using the same size for testing currently)
15:07:49kugelwhat's the difference between X5 and M5?
15:08:37pixelmaX5 has a colour display and M5 has a greyscale main screen (so remote and main have the same depth)
15:08:56amiconnThey don't have the same pixel format though
15:09:39pixelmathe both displays? Could this be the reason why the album art looks garbled?
15:10:25pixelmaseems to lack shades of grey and pixels are misplaced... "form" is correct though (in a sim)
15:11:24pixelmano, shades are there
15:11:49***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:12:58liarTheSeven: neither r23566 -sleep nor r23566 -sleep +bigusbstack works for me
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15:13:35TheSevenliar: I'll upload a testing build soon
15:13:41liark
15:14:02TheSevenbut first I'll try to find out what's causing the usb stkov's and fix them properly
15:15:45Unhelpfulpixelma: i don't think that the scaler supports changing the output pixel format for remotes - that's only for unscaled bmp loading, i believe.
15:18:09Unhelpfuland even if it did, i'm a bit more sure the audio thread doesn't load the cover art twice to also get a remote-formatted version
15:19:21pixelmahow does it work for the second album art in an sbs then?
15:19:31amiconnIirc there was a commit that is supposed to make remote album art work
15:20:42pixelmawhich is why I tried
15:21:39*TheSeven needs to reset his ftl... seems like there is leftover corruption from previous builds
15:24:44pixelmaUnhelpful: is the scaler still used even if your album art is already at the correct size?
15:24:49CIA-6New commit by 03teru (r23569): Merge duplicating code to remove char in keyboard.
15:25:01Unhelpfulpixelma: we didn't have second album art until quite recently, and i've not been at the scaler or loader since then :/
15:26:24pixelmaI'm currently using same sizes for both displays for testing
15:26:25TheSevenFTL stress test is running, build is being uploaded
15:26:35Unhelpfulno, loading a bitmap without scaling for the remote *should* work. if the scaler is not involved, i'd make sure that the loader knows that it's handling a remote bitmap. i doubt it does, i'm pretty sure the load flags are fixed in buffering.c
15:26:42TheSeventhis time i'm copying a rockbox source tree to it
15:27:33TheSeventheseven/releases/rockbox/r23566M-possiblefix.zip">http://l4n.clustur.com/data/theseven/releases/rockbox/r23566M-possiblefix.zip
15:28:28Unhelpfulit may also that with both AA set for the same size it's only loading one AA
15:30:59pixelmahaving a slightly smaller art at the size specified in the rwps doesn't help the cause
15:31:16pixelma(now main and remote are different
15:31:18pixelma)
15:32:10Unhelpfulthere's support for multiple output formats in the scaler - the jpeg loader uses this to delay YUV->RGB until after scaling
15:33:07liarTheSeven: it does not work for me..
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15:34:52TheSevenUtchybann: can you give it a try?
15:35:07kugelUnhelpful: the audio thread buffers 2 album arts, but it is possible that the both are always formatted for the main display
15:35:15UtchybannTheSeven: ok.
15:37:00TheSevenliar: what's your nand id?
15:37:08kugelUnhelpful: we could pass some more info to the scaler if needed
15:38:01Unhelpfulit's in buffering.c, in load_image. i think you need to add a FORMAT_REMOTE to the format flags if you want remote output - and then an output function for it needs to be written, and the scaler needs to be modified to use it.
15:41:06liarTheSeven: a585d598
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15:41:56TheSevenah, the weird one
15:42:15liaryep :)
15:42:17TheSevenliar: can you try theseven/releases/rockbox/r23566M-possiblefix2.zip">http://l4n.clustur.com/data/theseven/releases/rockbox/r23566M-possiblefix2.zip ?
15:43:09TheSevenliar: and how did the r23566M-possiblefix fail for you?
15:43:51liarTheSeven: rockbox itself did not fail, but the usb did not work(descriptor read error)
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15:44:21TheSevenhm, then r23566M-possiblefix2 will proabably fail, too
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15:44:30TheSevenany idea what's going on with the USB?
15:44:41TheSevenI haven't heard of such a bug from anyone else yet
15:45:52UtchybannTheSeven: r23566M-possiblefix.zip seems good for me. no hang during copy and no nand corruption.
15:45:52liaryep usb is failing here too...
15:46:05liarTheSeven: __grant has the same problem
15:46:16TheSevenliar: did you find anything that seems to cause this?
15:46:30liarTheSeven: no, i have no idea
15:46:46TheSevenso it just works with some builds but not with others?
15:46:57liarit worked never for me
15:47:35TheSevenouch
15:47:51liar__grant said it worked for him in a build some days(probably a week or two) ago
15:48:06liariirc he has the same nand chip
15:48:19liari cant remember which build was working for him
15:48:24*TheSeven can't see any connection from USB not even enumerating to nand chips
15:49:30liarme too
15:50:18TheSevenwhat did the sleep(1); after fifo flushing fix for you then?
15:50:48TheSevencan you try if that works in those 2 testing builds i uploaded? (if it works in -possiblefix you don't need to test -possiblefix2)
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15:55:32CIA-6New commit by 03theseven (r23570): Squash another bunch of iPod Nano 2G NAND bugs by moving the idle powerdown code down into the lowlevel driver. Move even more things from the FTL to ...
15:55:57TheSevenbertrik: this probably broke meizu, as there will be some missing stubs
15:56:27bertrikthat's ok :)
15:58:30UtchybannTheSeven: is r23570 the same as r23566M-possiblefix ?
15:58:37TheSevenyes
15:59:38UtchybannTheSeven: nice.
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16:04:59liarwithout the sleep i cant see any files in the filebrowser(sometimes it works sometimes not)
16:05:34liar(the one in nand_reset fixed that)
16:06:18liarthe others had the result that i had no ftl panics/use itunes to restore or something since 3 days now
16:06:49*liar will be back soon
16:07:20TheSevenliar: so this didn't occur in -possiblefix?
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16:10:01liarTheSeven: i powered it off via menu+select because usb freezed
16:10:16liarTheSeven: and menu+select worked before, because it does no storage flush
16:10:18TheSevenusb does *freeze*?
16:10:42liarrockbox freezes in a way
16:10:48liarthe backlight thread still is alive
16:10:59liarbut the usb screen does not change
16:11:05liari really have to go now
16:11:13TheSevenok
16:12:20TheSevenliar: btw, what you're seeing is probably FS #10713
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16:40:41TheSevenerm...
16:40:43TheSeven/bin/sh: /home/theseven/rockbox-trunk/tools/buildzip.pl: not found
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17:03:57bertrikI think I understand the meizu internal bootloading process a little better now
17:04:41bertrikwhat I though was a normal exception table in the first image we send, is rather a list of function pointers to basic flash operations: read id, erase chip, erase block and program block
17:06:05bertrikthere's no USB code at all in this flashloader image, it all still happens within the framework of the internal bootloader
17:09:55bertrikI could make a very simple RAM loader with these 4 primitives, that just configures the SDRAM and writes to SDRAM instead of flash. The USB stuff is apparently already handled by the internal bootloader.
17:11:39gevaertssounds like a good idea
17:11:47bertrikand the host side is already implemented in meizu_dfu
17:11:51***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:15:13bertrikthis is real nice, with some luck we can have a main rockbox booting (from USB) on meizus before the end of the year
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17:24:51jpt9Hey.
17:25:03jpt9Love the new USB HID features!
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17:39:47TheSevenbertrik: honestly, you could have an FTL running by the end of the year, if you would just do it :-)
17:40:49bertrikI'm really afraid of even trying that...
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17:41:00TheSevenI was that, too, in the beginning
17:41:07TheSevenespecially with the R/W part
17:41:30TheSevenif i would work full-time on that and had a testing device, I'd say that readonly can be done in a week
17:44:40bertrikmaybe one of the other meizu owners can lend you one
17:44:58TheSevenif i only had time for another target...
17:45:23TheSevenbut maybe i can motivate you to finally get started on it
17:45:33TheSevenwhich device is the most interesting one for you?
17:45:53TheSeveni could have a quick glance at a firmware to identify entry points, which will make things easier for you :-)
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17:46:38bertrikdisassembling is not a problem for me, just the total amount of work
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17:47:15bertrikI have a meizu m3 now (borrowed from gevaerts) and own a meizu m6sp
17:49:11TheSeveni just had a looks at a m6sl firmware i had lying around, and ida is doing most of the work for you
17:49:42TheSevenjust searching for "[VFL:" and "[FTL:" with "find all occurrences" yields a nice list of functions
17:50:25bertrikyes, I have those
17:50:45bertrikbut also a lot of functions that in no way indicate what they do exactly
17:51:37TheSevenI didn't have a single indication of what a function was doing (no debug strings at all), and managed to identify most of it within a few days
17:52:14TheSevenif you have caught the important things like vfl_read/vfl_write, and have a basic understanding of FTLs, it's easy
17:53:58bertrikI have that :P
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17:54:48bertrikand those functions are probably all pretty similar to the nano2g ftl, but it's still a lot of work that's not appealing to me right now
17:54:54bluebrotherlinuxstb: I'm currently considering to use CROSS to figure if ipodpatcher / sansapatcher is cross compiled, i.e. you need to set that variable manually. Do you think this is a reasonable approach?
17:55:29bertrikTheSeven, exactly what is stored in the "spare" NAND?
17:55:49bertrikI've seen some references to "context", is this what is stored in the spare nand?
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18:07:28TheSevenbertrik: no, the spare bits are used for meta infos on the page they are stored in
18:08:16TheSeventhe ftl and vfl context are some kind of control pages, that are used to store things like bad block remappings, pointers to the block map table, ...
18:08:30TheSevensee my driver :-)
18:09:11TheSevenunion ftl_spare_data_type is probably what you're looking for
18:11:01*bluebrother wonders if it would be in place to use proper dependency creation for the patchers
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18:18:35*domonoky wonders how this mini2440 uboot usb driver works. it never enables any EP interrupts.
18:19:37*domonoky can now detect when usb is connected on mini2440.. jay :-)
18:21:34TheSevendomonoky: it's probably polling the ep status regs?
18:21:40TheSevenibugger loader is also doing it that way
18:22:25domonokyTheSeven: but its irq handler also checks for EP interrupts.. but maybe i still miss some details :-)
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18:54:26*domonoky has now posted his very early usb work for mini2440 at FS #10767, if someone with a mini2440 wants to helpout to debug /find the problem, feel free to step in ! :-)
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18:55:39*kugel is busy with his new laptop, no time for mini2440 :(
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18:56:59Bob_C_I'm confused, is this for OTG or device?
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18:57:51domonokyusb device.
18:58:36*domonoky thinks the entrys in config-xxx.h are confusing..
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18:58:40Bob_C_Why does the config call it OTG then?
18:59:02domonokyi dont know, i just copied from other devices :-)
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18:59:48Bob_C_That is amazingly confusing!
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19:00:16liarTheSeven: it sounds similar
19:00:58TheSevenOTG: on-the-go
19:01:24Bob_C_But its not OTG, its device mode
19:01:29liar(FS #10713)
19:01:30TheSeventhe fun fact is that we aren't using OTG functionality anywhere yet, but the controllers are capable of it
19:01:45TheSeventhat's why the whole controller is usually referred to as "the otg"
19:02:10Bob_C_That depends on the controller surely
19:03:06Bob_C_The S3C2440 has separate device and host controllers
19:04:03Bob_C_and presumably the stack for OTG is quite different to a device stack?
19:05:10*TheSeven is not really sure about all this OTG stuff, but if he remembers correctly, you use the device part of the controller on both sides if you're doing a OTG connection
19:06:09Bob_C_OTG is a combined host/device port, i.e. you can use it to connect as a device to PC, or as a host when connected to a device like a Flash disk
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19:06:32Bob_C_there is a pin in the connector to provide the detection
19:07:18Bob_C_But if you have an A port, and B port, they are just host/device and completely seperate, nothing to do with OTG
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19:07:59TorneOr even if you don't have seperate ports, technically - there have been devices that have hardware to switch which of a host/device controller is attached to a single port
19:08:26Tornethe trick is that using an OTG controller as a device is very similar to using a device controller, so it's reasonably esay to get that bit working :)
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19:09:25Torne(also, some devboards at least have two or more of host/otg/device on the same board, as seperate controllers, just to confuse you more)
19:09:30domonokybut for rockbox, i think we could continue to call the device part OTG (without ever using the OTG part) and implentent HOST seperatly (if we ever get to that)
19:10:14Bob_C_OTG means Device + Host, so what we have is "device"
19:10:21TorneOTG is more than just a device and a host
19:10:30Bob_C_If we implement host, we should call it "USB_Host"
19:10:36Tornesee SRP and HNP
19:10:53TorneHNP makes endswapping work, SRP is a different way of doing power management
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19:11:06Torneboth part of OTG spec, supported by neither usb host nor usb device controllers.
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19:11:34*domonoky thinks we can still uses the OTG defines for mini2440, even when it doesnt have OTG features on the device side. No need for new defines.
19:11:40Bob_C_so our USB is even less like an OTG implementation?
19:11:50TorneI dunno how our USB works at all :)
19:11:53***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:12:05Tornebut OTG is *really complicated* :)
19:12:25Torneusing an OTG port as a device is very similar to using a device controller but using OTG as a host is *not* very simlar to using OHCI/EHCI
19:13:15Torneand switching manually between the two and treating them as seperate modes is not *all* OTG can do. whether we need SRP/HNP is a different question (it only really applies when *both* ends are OTG, it's for things like plugging cameras into printers and the like)
19:13:16domonokyat the moment rockbox only supports device mode, no OTG, no host. But some usb chips could do it OTG.. thats why we call all of them OTG :-)
19:13:40Bob_C_So USBOTG really means device, or device + OTG sometime in the future?
19:14:23domonokyfor rockbox, yes.
19:17:04*gevaerts votes to get rid of all mentions of OTG in the defines
19:17:23Lloreandomonoky: How hard would it be for RButil to have some default .cfg files it could install? Maybe a default one for blind users, and a default one for sighted users?
19:17:32Bob_C_ok, at least I understand what the idea is now :)
19:17:36gevaertsunless of course they are actually related to OTG, but I don't think any of them are
19:18:20bluebrotherLlorean: I don't think that would be hard. I was thinking about some configuration installation a while ago btw :)
19:18:34gevaertsTorne: "using OTG as a host is *not* very simlar to using OHCI/EHCI"? As soon as you're in host mode you're using the host bits of the controller, which are reasonably likely to be at least OHCI or EHCI derivatives
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19:18:46domonokyLlorean: pretty easy, depending how you want to get/create those configs. downloading it from someplace is easy. adding entrys to existing configs is more work.
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19:19:05*bluebrother would like to see a cfg editor eventually
19:19:24Tornegevaerts: hm, it's been a while. but just switching between the two is not all it is, was what i meant
19:19:43gevaertsTorne: indeed not. OTG = host + device + magic :)
19:19:52pixelmaI believe there even was a cfg creator once (or the start of), ages ago
19:19:54*domonoky already started a config editor some time ago, but stopped, because the was no way to get a accurate list of possible config entrys/values.
19:20:05TheSevengevaerts: so referring to the chip as "the OTG" isn't really wrong either
19:20:27TheSevenand that's what the defines mentioning OTG are all about
19:20:50gevaertsTheSeven: yes and no. Some of them don't do OTG at all
19:21:01bluebrotherwell, with some preprocessor and scripting work it should be possible to get that. Maybe a good way would be to retrieve it for the installed version via a server script like done for the language strings?
19:21:58TheSevengevaerts: another fun fact: the ipod nano 2g bootrom dfu *supports* otg, as far as i can tell
19:22:21TheSevenprobably only because they used some driver library that supports it, I can't see how this could serve any real purpose
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19:31:42gevaertsTheSeven: maybe if you connect two bricked nanos to each other they do mutual restores?
19:33:11*domonoky wants OTG/Host feature in rockbox, so i can build rbutil.rock :-)
19:33:13TheSevenhaha :-)
19:35:38*gevaerts points to the lack of g++.rock and qt.rock
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19:39:42bluebrotherhmm, what does -isysroot mean for OS X gcc?
19:40:02 Join jpt9 [0] (n=jpt9@growlithe-30.dynamic.rpi.edu)
19:40:57bertrik-I adds something to the path searched for #include, I don't know what -i means
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19:41:21bluebrother-I wouldn't have been a question :)
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19:41:48domonokybluebrother: i think its used to point the compiler to different standard libs etc.. on mac this point to where the plattform sdk is installed.
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19:42:39bluebrotherdomonoky: any idea why it's in the ipodpatcher Makefile but not the mkamsboot one?
19:43:42domonokyperhaps we missed it in mkamsboot ? (unfortunatly i still cant compile and test on jdgordons mac)
19:44:21bluebrotheris it possible that it isn't really needed? rbspeex also doesn't have it.
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19:45:28*domonoky doesnt really know. but fears fully breakage the next time we try to compile on mac
19:46:56bluebrotheryeah, that's what giving me headaches. Otherwise libipodpatcher and libsansapatcher should be basically ready, except out-of-tree building and a massive cleanup needed.
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19:47:46*domonoky reads some web ressources, which claim its neccessary for universal builds.
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19:48:17bluebrotherdomonoky: link please?
19:48:36domonokyhttp://archives.free.net.ph/message/20080918.035517.85e215ce.en.html
19:49:04bluebrotherthanks
19:49:06*bluebrother goes reading
19:52:25bluebrotherprobably that -isysroot part is already in OS X' CFLAGS?
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19:54:34domonokyor perhaps it is not really needed when we compile for different archs seperatly and lipo together instead of building universally in one go ?
19:54:57domonokybut i really dont know.. we need some mac developer for rbutil..
19:55:16bluebrotherdefinitely.
19:57:00domonokybut i think it cant be in the OSX CFLAGS, because you can (and normally have) different SDK versions installed.
20:00
20:01:46bluebrotherhmm, ok.
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20:36:49liarTheSeven: you removed the sleep in r23570 right?
20:36:51liarits not working
20:37:44TheSevencan you test that -possiblefix2 ?
20:37:47TheSeventhis one has the sleep
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20:39:56liarTheSeven: works...
20:45:18liarargh.. but it just got a ftl panic again with that one
20:47:55TheSevenwhich panic?
20:48:50 Quit dmb (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
20:48:53liarscheduling ... for remap ...
20:49:13TheSevenok, so it's a problem bubbling up from the nand driver
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21:00
21:00:11drf|laptopSo, guys.
21:00:41drf|laptopI've put Rockbox on my Gigabeat S player a couple times now, but here's the problem I'm having. I chose to do the dual-boot way since I don't dislike the OFW... but it seems anything I put on there in MSC mode refuses to show up in MTP, and in fact, causes problems
21:00:52drf|laptopwhere the device says the music's there and in reality it's not
21:01:26drf|laptopHas anyone successfully dual-booted it, besides exclusively putting everything on in MTP mode and then only using Database mode in Rockbox due to the weirdness of MTP file allocations?
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21:02:06gevaertsdrf|laptop: you mean the OF doesn't handle things correctly?
21:02:20drf|laptopCorrect.
21:02:47gevaertswell, there's not much we can do about that...
21:02:48drf|laptopWell I bought it on eBay, there were problems with it - like music that would break the player and freeze my computer
21:03:00drf|laptopso I formatted it to hell and back, even reformatting both FAT32 partitions on the device
21:03:24drf|laptopwell I'm just curious why anyone would want to dualboot the player if the OF doesn't like MSC mode
21:03:35drf|laptopAt least with my Sansa - they TELL you to put all the files in "MUSIC", but it doesn't care if you don'
21:03:36drf|laptopt
21:03:37liarTheSeven: usb doesnt work too, but the dmesg output looks different
21:06:38gevaertsdrf|laptop: good question :)
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21:07:37bluebrotherdrf|laptop: well, the OF requires you to put stuff up in MTP mode.
21:08:40bluebrotherif you check how it puts the files there you'll find them kinda obfuscated. Not as bad as the Ipods do but in some weird folder structure. Somewhere below Content
21:09:10drf|laptopYeah I know
21:09:13drf|laptopbut what I did was like
21:09:17drf|laptopContent/Artist/a bunch of songs here
21:09:19drf|laptopit didn't see them
21:09:27drf|laptopapparently if they aren't named 01, 02 03, etc, it just doesn't work
21:09:30bluebrotheryou could of course use the OFs MTP mode and Rockbox database.
21:09:40drf|laptopThat's what I meant, but meh Rockbox database
21:09:45drf|laptopI like file mode
21:09:53drf|laptopso in other words I have to pick one or the other,not both? :)
21:10:23gevaertsdrf|laptop: you could ask Toshiba to fix this :)
21:10:30 Quit mirak (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
21:10:31bluebrotherbtw, there are devices around that for some not-yet-known reason refuse to singleboot Rockbox, so dual boot is required for them (mine for example)
21:10:48drf|laptopLOL
21:11:02drf|laptopwell gevaerts, is it possible that hax0rs could "fix" the firmware file?
21:11:07bluebrotherstrictly speaking you don't have to pick but sync them as separate devices. Which can be kinda pointless ;-)
21:11:16drf|laptopbluebrother, which device do you have?
21:11:47bluebrotherGigabeat S in this case. And a couple of others ;)
21:11:55***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:11:56gevaertsdrf|laptop: possibly. Not us though, we're already busy enough fixing our own bugs
21:11:58drf|laptopI thought Gigabeat S could single-boot though
21:12:22drf|laptopWell, I'm curious, what exactly does this BeastPatcher do?
21:12:31drf|laptopAs it seems to take a MTP device and force MSC loading on it :o
21:12:53bluebrotherit's believed that the no-single-boot issue is related to the version of the internal bootloader of the beast, which can get updated by Toshiba updates.
21:13:10bluebrotheryou can't just "force" UMS mode on a MTP-only device.
21:13:17drf|laptopwait, so you *can't* single-boot the Gigabeat S?
21:13:33bluebrotheryou *can* single-boot the beast, but not all of them.
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21:13:47drf|laptop"beast" being what? XD
21:13:57domonoky1beast= gigabeat S
21:13:58gevaertsa typo :)
21:14:06gevaerts(at least originally)
21:14:06drf|laptopwait, what?
21:14:11drf|laptopso some Gigabeat S work and some don't?
21:14:20bluebrothersee http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9778
21:14:41bluebrotherall do work, but some only work in dual boot mode.
21:14:57bluebrotherwhich can be quite annoying as this makes booting noticably slower.
21:15:04drf|laptopYeha, I noticed.
21:15:10drf|laptopIs there a way to make Rockbox "sleep" like the OF?
21:15:17bluebrotherno.
21:15:18drf|laptopI liked that in the original Toshiba firmware, where if you press power it just suspends it
21:15:19drf|laptopDarn.
21:15:25bluebrotherWell, you could of course implement it, then yes :)
21:15:32drf|laptopSo it's always gonna do that whole Toshiba, Windows Mobile, then Rockbox, THEN it shows up crap?
21:15:47bluebrotherbut as of now no sleep mode is implemented in Rockbox. This also affects all other players like the Ipods
21:15:59drf|laptopyeah but iPods suck :)
21:16:03bluebrotheryes, if you have a player that is affected.
21:16:04*domonoky1 thinks it doesnt make sense to waist power to go around a few seconds of bootup.
21:16:16drf|laptopI have a Sansa c200 and e200, both of those work really well with Rockbox
21:16:24drf|laptopas in, booting only takes half a second longer than originally...
21:17:40bluebrotherdomonoky1: just measured. The Windows Mobile loading screen takes 12s, Rockbox main screen shows up after 17s. Pretty long bootup :(
21:17:48drf|laptopThat's wha tI'm saying. LOL
21:17:52drf|laptopThat's why I want sleep mode :P)
21:17:53drf|laptop-P
21:17:59drf|laptopBut if you single-boot it, it works faster?
21:18:25domonoky1oh, thats long.. damn windows. yes singleboot should be fast as it skips the windows loading.
21:18:30bluebrotheryes, as far as I know. It doesn't work on my beast, unfortunately. Which is quite annoying, as I'm not interested in the OF at all
21:19:00drf|laptophow would you find out if it supports singlebooting? Just by trying it? LOL
21:19:36bluebrotheryes. If the beast comes up with those firmware restore screens after installing the bootloader you need dual-boot
21:20:00drf|laptopHm
21:20:08drf|laptopI used beastpatcher and it went straight to USB MSC mode
21:20:20drf|laptopand then without installing Rockbox just "File not found", but once I copid .rockbox over it worked
21:20:29drf|laptopnow I did dualboot in beastpatcher since I *wanted* the OF
21:20:34drf|laptopbut now that it won't fricking WORK...
21:21:14 Join dmb [0] (n=Dmb@unaffiliated/dmb)
21:21:15bluebrotherand for your question about beastpatcher: it changes an OF file by inserting the Rockbox bootloader, then modifying it to load that. Then it sends the result via MTP to the player. Once that reboots and the Rockbox bootloader comes up it goes into UMS mode, in case USB is connected.
21:22:14drf|laptopWell, see, the main reason I even looked into the Gigabeat S was because I'm a Zune fan and I was told that player is like a pre-dated Zune that supports Rockbox
21:22:21drf|laptopso I was curious if something like beastpatcher could be made for a Zune
21:23:10bluebrotherbeastpatcher is only a tool for installation. Without the code running on the actual player it won't do anything useful.
21:23:22drf|laptopwell
21:23:37drf|laptopHow come they can't get a MSC-patcher working for Zune? I know someone said Microsoft fixed some exploit or something but...
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21:23:41bluebrotherin case of beastpatcher some code (the Rockbox bootloader to be exact) is embedded into the executable. This won't work on other players though.
21:23:41drf|laptopinternally is it that different?
21:24:38bluebrotherwell, you could examine the Zune firmware and probably modify it. There doesn't seem to be much interest though, or noone figured the encryption.
21:24:50drf|laptopI know, because people d8on't like Zunes :/
21:24:56drf|laptopwhich is partly what pisses me off, since they're awesome
21:25:09gevaertsno
21:25:22drf|laptoplemme try beastpatching this Gigabeat right now without dual-boot
21:25:23gevaertsrockbox ports are done by people who own the device
21:25:38drf|laptopOnce I replace my broken Zune with another one I could look at it...
21:25:41gevaertsPresumably those don't dislike them that much
21:25:45bluebrotherwell, I like my Ipod way better than the beast.
21:25:52drf|laptopI just hate scroll wheels
21:26:00drf|laptopwhich is why when the Zune came along, it was awesome
21:26:06drf|laptopsince it was a >8GB player that didn't have a stupid scroll wheel
21:26:17bluebrotheryou get used to it :) The e200 scrollwheel is much worse.
21:26:21drf|laptopLOL
21:26:24*gevaerts has several >8GB players without a scroll wheel
21:26:27drf|laptopthe e200 scrollwheel, at least, has buttons too
21:26:33drf|laptoplike instad of JUST a wheel
21:26:50drf|laptopbut I dunno, why do peopl ehate Zunes so much?
21:26:59gevaertsanyway, the pros and cons of various control schemes are really off-topic here
21:27:17gevaertsas are reasons why people like or dislike certain players
21:27:26*bluebrother hides
21:27:35drf|laptopHmm
21:27:37drf|laptopso I ran beastpatcher
21:27:40liarTheSeven: i going to the delays again.. just got another use itunes to restore...
21:27:40drf|laptopand it works fine
21:27:42drf|laptopwithout dualbooting
21:29:41drf|laptopk, got Rockbox on there
21:29:52drf|laptopSo theoretically, if I turn the hold switch on right after booting, it'll still boot into Rockbox now?
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21:31:23drf|laptopOh crap
21:31:27drf|laptop"Firmware update or restoration required"
21:31:33drf|laptopso that means I have to dual-boot config it?
21:33:48Unhelpfuldrf|laptop: looks like it.
21:34:02drf|laptopI wonder why some can do it and some ca't?
21:34:04drf|laptop*can't
21:34:28gevaertstalk to Torne. He's looking into this (and related) things
21:34:39Unhelpfuldifferent flash versions. i've managed to "upgrade" mine to non-dual-boot-capable.
21:35:01bluebrotherdrf|laptop: see the link I've posted earlier.
21:36:07drf|laptopLOL
21:36:15drf|laptopso could I use, like, older firmware?
21:36:18drf|laptopor can you not downgrade it?
21:36:46drf|laptopI know for my Sansa c200, the firmware out of the box was set to auto-detect and not let you choose between MTP and MSC... I had to use a Sandisk utility to downgrade it so that I could install Rockbox
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21:37:59domonoky1drf|laptop: or you could have pressed the right button to force your c200 to msc mode :-)
21:38:15drf|laptop...
21:38:18drf|laptopthey had that?
21:38:29drf|laptopoh well, I gave that thing away LOL, once I got the e200
21:40:38drf|laptopby the way, though, at the time I installed Rockbox it was physically incapable of doing USB mode - and you have to use the OFW for it (in fact, if it's turned off and you plug it in, it BOOTS the OFW)
21:40:40drf|laptopHas that been
21:40:43drf|laptop*Has that been fixed?
21:41:07Dhraakellianwould it be possible to have Car Adapter Mode disable the reboot-to-OF on USB insertion on the Fuze?
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21:43:07funmani just got a computer running OSX if you need to test some stuff (build, etc)
21:43:31*TheSeven is unable to find out how test_codec works :-P
21:44:22UnhelpfulTheSeven: you open an audio file with it.
21:44:37TheSevenit doesn't show up in "open with"
21:44:52TheSeven(i just copied it to rocks\viewers)
21:44:54funmandid you copy the .rock yourself ?
21:45:02TheSevenyes, how is that supposed to work?
21:45:16TheSevenit got properly built, but wasn't included in fullzip
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21:45:30funmanyou must add an entry in viewers.config
21:45:43funmanwhen i run "make zip" i can see it in the open with menu
21:46:02TheSevenah, i looked for such a file, but didn't expect it to be directly in .rockbox
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21:46:09TheSevenhm, make fullzip didn't include it for me
21:46:53gevaertsdrf|laptop: "physically incapable"?
21:47:06drf|laptopYes
21:47:13drf|laptoplike if you have the Sansa running Rockbox, plug it in, nothing happens
21:47:15drf|laptopthe computer won't see it, etc.
21:47:21drf|laptopbut mine could just be way outdated
21:47:37funmanit is, sansa e200 and c200 have a usb driver in rockbox now
21:47:41drf|laptop:O
21:48:20*gevaerts thinks that software can never be physically incapable of doing something...
21:48:23Unhelpfulupdates. we have some for you. ;)
21:49:33drf|laptopHm
21:49:36Dhraakellianthe Fuze port can't tell whether a USB connection is a computer or just power only, right?
21:49:42drf|laptopwell with my e200, the last time I updated it it completely broke my themes
21:49:46TheSevendamn, running test_codec ends up with an undefined instruction at 0xcafffff0
21:49:47drf|laptopsince Rockbox "changed" the way they were written
21:49:51drf|laptopHas it been changed again?
21:49:56*drf|laptop can find out the Rockbox version, if that'd help
21:50:17Dhraakelliandrf|laptop: it's still using viewports, but themes have been updated since then
21:50:29Dhraakelliansome may have been left behind, but many have been ported
21:50:37Dhraakellianor other, nicer themes have come along
21:51:05drf|laptopwell what I mean is
21:51:08drf|laptopyou know how they're just text files?
21:51:11drf|laptopwell the way it was written changed
21:51:12Dhraakellian(the latter statement is opinion. YOMV, of course :) )
21:51:14drf|laptopso the theme didn't work
21:51:18drf|laptoplemme check my version, hold on
21:51:25drf|laptopbut we're talking 2-3 years old :P
21:51:33Dhraakellianyeah, Viewports
21:51:40Dhraakellianand such
21:51:51Dhraakellianit broke some older themes
21:52:56TheSevenlinuxstb: ping
21:55:03gevaertsdrf|laptop: there have definitely been wps syntax changes in the last two years.
21:55:10linuxstbTheSeven: Hi
21:55:31drf|laptophm
21:55:32TheSevenlinuxstb: you did run test_codec on a nano a while ago, right?
21:55:38drf|laptopis there an easy way to convert the theme though?
21:55:39linuxstbTheSeven: Yes.
21:55:43TheSevenwas there anything you needed to fix?
21:55:56TheSevenit's running into the undefined instruction vector for me
21:56:09linuxstbNo, I can't recall any problems. Which codec are you trying? I think I just tried mp3.
21:56:25*gevaerts isn't a wps specialist
21:56:45Dhraakelliandrf|laptop: take a look at the theme site to see if there's an updated version
21:56:50TheSevenlinuxstb: it fails before even showing the menu
21:57:17Dhraakellianor, if there isn't, see if there's a theme that you wouldn't mind using instead
21:57:22linuxstbTheSeven: OK, let me update to current svn, and I'll see if it works for me.
21:57:35*Dhraakellian personally recommends PlainText on the e200
21:57:36drf|laptophttp://img196.imageshack.us/img196/8936/dsc00800be.jpg <−− That's the theme I have
21:57:39 Quit froggyman ()
21:57:46TheSevenhowever i also needed to install it manually as make fullzip wasn't seeing it
21:57:50drf|laptopThe guy who made it was just too lazy to update it, I had to do the whole thing myself :(
21:58:05drf|laptopso according to my sansa e280
21:58:23drf|laptopversion r18225-080809
21:58:35drf|laptopNot sure how old that is
21:58:47gevaertsit's 15 months old
21:58:49TheSevenuh oh
21:59:14drf|laptopSo since then, have they changed the syntax on the themes?
21:59:21Dhraakelliandrf|laptop: you should be able to find something comparable
21:59:34TheSevenlooks like my build dir is fubar'd again
21:59:36drf|laptopI like the one I have :/
21:59:41TheSevennot even a make clean fixes it
21:59:49Dhraakellianhttp://themes.rockbox.org/index.php?target=e200
22:00
22:00:08Dhraakellian(or you can find the link in the sidebar on the left of rockbox.org)
22:00:56CIA-6New commit by 03funman (r23571): mkamsboot: fix linking (typo from r23520)
22:01:16gevaertsdrf|laptop: I don't think it's really possible to say if that will still work without either someone who knows wpses looking at it or just trying it
22:02:36funmanbluebrother: domonoky1: I think -isysroot is only needed when linking to some specific libraries ? mkamsboot builds fine for x86 and ppc
22:02:41linuxstbTheSeven: test_codec.rock appears in rockbox-full.zip for me - so yes, something is broken for you...
22:02:46drf|laptopI just don't get why it keeps changing
22:02:51drf|laptopWhat was wrong with the way themes worked before?
22:03:16drf|laptopAnyway, um. I gave my c200 player to a friend, apparently the Rockbox on that is r17585-080519
22:03:19drf|laptopHas anything major changed since then?
22:03:23 Join Thundercloud [0] (i=thunderc@persistence.flat.devzero.co.uk)
22:03:26domonoky1drf|laptop: it changes because we introduce cool new features, or fix bugs :-)
22:03:47 Quit AEnima1577 ("Leaving.")
22:04:03bluebrotherfunman: interesting. Can you test a Makefile for me in the next couple of days (have to fix some things up first, and might not get around it tonight)?
22:04:04linuxstbOr make the parser stricter, which exposes bugs in WPSs
22:04:07TheSevenwtf
22:04:08Dhraakelliandrf|laptop: and I don't think theme compatability has actually been broken since the VP changeover last year
22:04:08TheSeven/bin/sh: /home/theseven/rockbox-trunk/tools/buildzip.pl: not found
22:04:10gevaertsdrf|laptop: I think the last incompatible change in wps syntax was on 2008-06-23. The parser has become more strict though
22:04:29TheSevenaaaaaaahhhh
22:04:41drf|laptophm
22:04:49drf|laptopwell if my friend updates Rockbox, will anything major happen?
22:05:06*gevaerts points to http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/MajorChanges
22:05:56drf|laptopwhich "version" is r17585-080519 though?
22:05:59TheSevenwho broke buildzip?
22:06:10linuxstbTheSeven: test_codec is working fine for me...
22:06:21DhraakellianBack up your theme dirs. if themes fail, clear them out and go hunting for new versions or new themes
22:06:40bluebrotherdrf|laptop: it's a current build from around 18 months ago
22:06:49funmanTheSeven: perl is in /usr/bin ?
22:06:52gevaertsdrf|laptop: the 080519 bit is the date
22:06:58TheSevenprobably mcuelenare
22:07:06TheSevenfunman: it has CRLF line endings
22:07:16droidcorehi, everyone. I installed rockbox on an ipod 4g colour yesterday and artifacts remain on the screen on shutdown (and eventually fade). I found this behaviour reported in bug 5199, which was closed a while ago. is there a patch/workaround?
22:07:17TheSeven/usr/bin/perl^M: bad interpreter: No such file or directory
22:07:30Dhraakellianis there any particular reason why Plain Text VP is on http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/WpsSansaE200 but not themes.rockbox.org?
22:07:35linuxstbTheSeven: It doesn't have CRs for me...
22:07:38drf|laptopOK, but then "17585" is what?
22:07:43gevaertsthe svn revision
22:07:57funmanTheSeven: then perhaps you should change the svn:eol-style property ? i'm not sure how that svn stuff works
22:08:07Dhraakellianit looks like the license is CC-by-sa
22:08:11linuxstbTheSeven: It does have "svn:eol-style native" though
22:08:12TheSevenlinuxstb: it also didn't have them for me until i did an svn up on that working copy today
22:08:17drf|laptopgevaerts, so what *version* is it?
22:08:26linuxstbTheSeven: In cygwin?
22:08:51TheSevenno, on karmic, but i occasionally touch that working copy using samba and tortoisesvn
22:08:52gevaertsdrf|laptop: that totally depends on what you mean by "version". It's a build for revision 17585, from 19 may 2008
22:09:08linuxstbTheSeven: I would blame tortoise then.
22:09:12drf|laptopOK, but that major changes page has like Version 3.0, 3.1, etc.
22:09:18drf|laptopHow do I get that version from that list?
22:09:24TheSevenhm, why is this native-eol?
22:09:38linuxstbTheSeven: Why not? That sounds correct to me.
22:10:06n1stortoisesvn have given many people line ending headaches
22:10:55Dhraakelliandrf|laptop: the VP change-over was before 3.0, iirc
22:11:16drf|laptopSigh. I can't find the theme I had on my e200 x.x
22:11:24drf|laptopI'm just trying every theme on the device, LOL
22:11:38AlexPdrf|laptop: Another reason for the Zune having had nothing done is that it is US only and the majority of
22:11:46AlexP*devs are European
22:11:50drf|laptopYeah I realize it's US only :/
22:12:02drf|laptopwell how hard is it, really, to port Rockbox? Like if I can rip the firmware, can the devs work on it?
22:12:09Dhraakelliandrf|laptop: back up your .rockbox dir and update to 3.4!
22:12:13AlexPdrf|laptop: Very
22:12:16funmanif perl doesn't interpret \r\n then eol-style should be unix ?
22:12:26AlexPdrf|laptop: And as someone has already said, interested owners do the port
22:12:36drf|laptopLOL
22:12:36drf|laptopWell
22:12:36AlexPdrf|laptop: See www.rockbox.org/wiki/NewPort
22:12:47drf|laptopis there that much of a difference between the Gigabeat S and Zune? In terms of Rockbox?
22:12:52AlexPThere isn't a Rockbox team waiting to do ports.
22:12:56TheSevenfunman: it's bash that chokes on thinking it should run "/usr/bin/perl\r"
22:12:57drf|laptopsame screen resolution, the only difference is like... the buttons
22:13:00funmanrather "LF"
22:13:05funmanoh
22:13:08AlexPdrf|laptop: Yes, a massive difference - Rockbox doesn't run on the zune
22:13:19funmancan bash interpret only \n on windows ?
22:13:21drf|laptop<Dhraakellian> drf|laptop: back up your .rockbox dir and update to 3.4! <−− Currently I'm trying to find which theme I was using, first
22:13:30drf|laptopAnd um, I thought the not running on Zune thing was a firmware issue
22:13:41AlexPdrf|laptop: Is that the only difference? Is all of the hardware internally identical? Is the firmware format identical? Does the same exploit exist?
22:13:43gevaertsAlexP: to port rockbox to a device, there is a very important requirement. You have to be able to run code on it
22:13:49AlexPgevaerts: indeed so
22:14:01TheSevenheh, aache64 is 101.6% realtime according to test_codec
22:14:06TheSevenbut it plays just fine
22:14:11drf|laptopah, it's called EscapePod
22:14:16n1sdrf|laptop: the big roadblock is that noone has figured out how to run unsigned code on the zune and the exploit used on the beast has apparently been fixed o the zune so a different way needs to be found
22:14:29drf|laptopHmm
22:14:37drf|laptopwell what I'm curious about is
22:14:47drf|laptopYou know how with the Gigabeat, there's the two partitions, one being for the firmware?
22:14:52drf|laptopAre *all* MTP devices like that internally?
22:14:54AlexPno
22:14:56n1sno
22:15:02AlexPMTP is nothing to do with that
22:15:07drf|laptopOh
22:15:10n1sit has *nothing* to do with mtp
22:15:13drf|laptopI thought that was a firmware thing though
22:15:21AlexPWhat is a firmware thing?
22:15:27drf|laptopMTP
22:15:32drf|laptopThe firmware's what makes it connect as such
22:15:36AlexPYes?
22:15:38n1syes, it's the way toshiba designed their firmware
22:15:50drf|laptopbut the firmware is stored different on different players?
22:15:53AlexPyes
22:16:26AlexPHow you decide to implement USB is completely independent on where the firmware file is stored
22:16:43drf|laptopso on the ZUne it could be stored in the main data part?
22:17:00bluebrotherMTP is the media transfer *protocol*
22:17:01AlexPit is possible, or it could be on a dedicated flash chip, or ....
22:17:17drf|laptopugh flash chip
22:17:24funmanmy OSX bash 3.2 can read files with \r\n line endings
22:18:22TheSevenfunman: I think that this still worked on jaunty, but since i installed karmic on that machine, I'm seeing issues like that
22:19:10drf|laptopAlright, noted: The theme on my e200 is called EscapePod, and the font is neep-alt-08x15-bold-L1
22:19:18drf|laptopSo would the theme I have now not be compatible with the newest version>?
22:19:36AlexPIf it is too old, sure
22:20:02AlexPCheck it against www.rockbox.org/wiki/CustomWps
22:20:07drf|laptopbut is there an easy way to make it work with the newest version? Last time I hda to go and retype the entire thing x.x
22:20:23AlexPSorry, http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/CustomWPS
22:20:49 Quit Grahack ("Leaving.")
22:20:56AlexPYou can use a sim with the −−debug-wps option (I think) to see on what line(s) the error(s) are
22:21:07 Quit freddyb (Remote closed the connection)
22:21:22drf|laptopwps: /.rockbox/wps/EscapePod.wps <−− LOL, that's helpful
22:21:42AlexPsorry, the switch is −−debugwps
22:21:57drf|laptopUm
22:22:01drf|laptopWhere do I type that?
22:22:16*AlexP might regret starting this
22:22:23Dhraakellianwherever it is you would launch the simulator
22:22:29drf|laptopsimulator?
22:22:47AlexPdrf|laptop: when you run the sim, instead of starting it as "rockboxui.exe" run "rockboxui.exe −−debugwps"
22:22:53AlexPdrf|laptop: The UI simulator
22:22:58drf|laptopoh, I see
22:23:00drf|laptopway at the bottom
22:23:17AlexPsee rasher.dk/rockbox/simulator/">http://rasher.dk/rockbox/simulator/
22:23:18drf|laptopwtf is the e200v2?
22:23:24Dhraakelliandrf|laptop: if you're wanting to debug the theme in an attempt to debug it
22:23:35drf|laptopis it like the same hardware with different firmwaret?
22:23:36drf|laptop-t
22:23:44AlexPno, different hardware
22:23:45Dhraakelliandrf|laptop: SanDisk went and changed the internals of the e200 hardware
22:23:50AlexPBut the player looks the same
22:24:00funmanfrom http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/7990989775/xcu/sh.html it's not obvious if shell scripts MUST have \n line endings and not \r\n
22:24:05Dhraakellianand still called it the e200 (but with a barely noticeable "v2" on the back)
22:24:20AlexPDhraakellian: Not always with that
22:24:27AlexPThey tend to swap the cases randomly
22:24:32drf|laptopHm
22:24:35drf|laptopbut it looks the same otherwise?
22:24:37Dhraakellianthey did the same with the Fuze and Clip but didn't even bother to be so nice as to put the "v2" anywhere
22:24:41drf|laptopMine's the original e200, I just hadn't seen a v2
22:24:44AlexPdrf|laptop: It is identical
22:24:47drf|laptopInteresting
22:24:56drf|laptopand I'm correct in assuming the newer Sansas don't run Rockbox?
22:25:04AlexPDhraakellian: They often didn't with the e200 either. The only way to tell for sure is the OF version
22:25:05DhraakellianSanDisk makes some decent hardware, but some of their other practices are a bit boneheaded
22:25:11AlexPdrf|laptop: Look at www.rockbox.org
22:25:12drf|laptopLOL
22:25:18drf|laptopI think that's true of ALL mp3 plauyers
22:25:19DhraakellianAlexP: yeah, but I was being charitable
22:25:19drf|laptop-u
22:25:21drf|laptopyeah I saw the site
22:25:25drf|laptopbut a lot of them aren't listed
22:25:32drf|laptopthat means that Sandisk got evil with the firmware like Apple?
22:25:33AlexPthen what does that tell you?
22:25:42AlexPdrf|laptop: let us stay on topic
22:26:50drf|laptophm, apparently I also need to copy the fonts over.
22:26:59AlexPyes, please read the manual
22:27:20Dhraakelliandrf|laptop: and the font that theme uses won't be in the fonts zipfile under the same name
22:27:31drf|laptopI just copied the folder from my Sansa
22:27:33drf|laptopto the simdisk
22:27:42AlexPWhat folder?
22:27:50drf|laptoptheme, and wps
22:27:51drf|laptopand now fonts
22:28:52drf|laptopThe only error I see is this
22:28:52drf|laptopread_bmp_file: can't open '/.rockbox/backdrops/EscapePod.bmp', rc: -1
22:29:00drf|laptopoh duh, I didn't copy that folder either.
22:29:02AlexPthat might be a clue then
22:29:06drf|laptopOtherwise it seems to work fine
22:29:13drf|laptopwhich means... the syntaxes actually didn't change?
22:29:46Dhraakelliandrf|laptop: it was mainly layout stuff and new tags, I think?
22:29:51drf|laptopHm
22:30:01drf|laptopI just know it changed at one point and I had to find and replace a bunch of stuff in the WPS
22:30:11Dhraakellianand there was a progressbar tag that changed slightly
22:30:15drf|laptopI'll try playing a song in the simulator, to see what happens
22:30:16 Join stripwax_ [0] (n=Miranda@87-194-34-169.bethere.co.uk)
22:30:50drf|laptopLOL it's actually playing the music out of my speakers. Awesome
22:31:00drf|laptopBut yeah, seems to work fine. Sweet
22:33:01drf|laptopso, can I use the automatic installer to update? Or should I do it manually?
22:33:42Dhraakellianup to you. I would just unzip the rockbox.zip into the root directory of the e200
22:34:19drf|laptopAnd then just tell it to overwrite any existing files?
22:34:24Dhraakellianyep
22:34:35Dhraakellianyou might want to clean out (most of) your fonts dir though
22:34:37gevaertsdrf|laptop: I'd recommend also upgrading the bootloader
22:34:43Dhraakellianto avoid having duplicate fonts
22:34:44drf|laptopAh, now how do I go about doing that?
22:34:56drf|laptopDhraakellian, um, do they have the same fonts with different names?
22:35:03drf|laptopthough I can delete ALL of them, I just use the one...
22:35:28Dhraakelliandrf|laptop: yes. they renamed the fonts, making sorting a lot cleaner
22:35:30Dhraakellianyou could do that
22:35:48drf|laptopI think I will, LOL
22:35:50Dhraakellianeven cleaning the old fonts out wouldn't even be needed so much really, I suppose
22:35:53*drf|laptop copying the .rockbox to the e200
22:36:01drf|laptopwell I don't switch themes
22:36:07drf|laptophonestly I could delete all but the one and I'd be fine
22:36:08AlexPdrf|laptop: You don't need to tell us everything you are doing
22:36:13drf|laptopOK
22:36:19drf|laptopAnyway, how do I upgrade the bootloader?
22:37:03linuxstbdrf|laptop: The same way you installed it the first time.
22:37:10Dhraakellianeither with sansapatcher or the Rockbox Util GUI.
22:37:11drf|laptopThe auto-installer?
22:37:20drf|laptopI just used the GUI auto-installer.
22:37:23Dhraakellianand read the manual if you can't figure out how
22:37:26Dhraakellian:þ
22:37:32AlexPthen use that, and please check the manuall
22:37:42drf|laptopOK
22:38:09drf|laptopArgh darn it, the controls got reset
22:38:12drf|laptopThat's odd, though
22:38:27drf|laptopwait, never mind.
22:38:34AlexPplease
22:38:45drf|laptopAnd um... how come I'm able to see ".rockbox" in file view? I thought it was supposed to be hidden?
22:39:16AlexPCheck the show files setting
22:39:30drf|laptophm
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22:39:38drf|laptopI just figured it would be hidden by default to avoid people messing it u
22:39:39drf|laptop*p
22:44:50 Join ender` [0] (i=krneki@foo.eternallybored.org)
22:45:49 Quit funman ("free(random());")
22:46:05TheSevenhttp://pastie.org/689306
22:47:07gevaertshm, what does ahe_high imply>
22:47:08gevaerts?
22:47:13gevaertsc2000?
22:47:21TheSevenno idea, it's the files from rockbox.org
22:48:25 Quit Torne (Remote closed the connection)
22:49:40gevaertssaratoga: which settings were used for ape_high and ape_normal?
22:51:23Unhelpfuldoes ape not have high/normal/fast profiles?
22:52:02gevaertsit does c1000 to c5000. Five profiles in total
22:52:21amiconnActually it's more difficult than that
22:52:36 Join Torne [0] (i=torne@lowell.wolfpuppy.org.uk)
22:52:46amiconnAPE does have several compression levels, and then there are also different stream versions
22:53:19amiconnlibdemac support 3.97 and 3.99 streams. 3.97 has levels c1000 to c4000, 3.99 has levels c1000 to c5000
22:53:22*TheSeven confused that aache just plays fine, although it's really barely realtime
22:53:48amiconnNote that e.g. a v3.97 c2000 is quite different from a v3.99 c2000
22:54:39amiconnv3.99 usually offers better compression than v3.97 at the same level, but that the levels are also a little slower
22:55:59 Quit HBK (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:56:11 Nick KBH is now known as HBK (n=hbk@rrcs-97-77-51-170.sw.biz.rr.com)
23:00
23:03:23 Quit ender (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:05:00*TheSeven just made a set of 3.99 c1000...5000 files
23:05:26TheSevenape compression is really pretty fast...
23:06:25drf|laptopSo LOL, I notice that my e200 now acts as a volume controller for my computer
23:06:30drf|laptopAs much as that's a cool feature, can it be turned off?
23:06:41drf|laptop(where play actually opens a media player, turning the scrollwheel changes the volume, etc)
23:06:46TheSevendrf|laptop: yes, see the manua
23:06:55TheSevenmanual*
23:07:51TheSevenc1000 is 372% realtime, 51MHz
23:08:09AlexPdrf|laptop: Please please please please read the manual
23:08:33TheSeven(so only barely slower than mp3)
23:08:44drf|laptopOK
23:08:56*gevaerts wonders what TheSeven will think when seeing how fast c5000 is :)
23:09:11drf|laptopAlso: For my Gigabeat S... is there a way to "hide" the firmware partition now that I have Rockbox on it... or should I just use Disk Management in windows to remove the drive letter?
23:09:20TheSevenc2000 is 255% realtime, 75MHz
23:09:46 Quit dfkt ("-= SysReset 2.53=- Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.")
23:10:28TheSeven(which points towards the test files on rockbox.org being 2000 and 3000)
23:11:08TheSevenc3000 is 164% realtime, 117MHz
23:11:38gevaertslooks like we have a match :)
23:11:53amiconnIirc that makes sense, as the levels are dubbed with names: c1000..c5000 -> fast/normal/high/extreme(?)/insane
23:11:57***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:12:22TheSevenamiconn: s/extreme/Extra High/
23:12:32amiconnTheSeven: c1000 and c2000 may be fast. Try c5000 - I bet you won't get even near realtime
23:12:52TheSevenc4000 is running right now
23:13:10gevaertsTheSeven: we'll tell you later what c5000 gets on a nano g1 :)
23:13:15amiconnThe gigabeat S achieves 105% realtime when clocked at 528MHz
23:13:31TheSevenamiconn: does this actually play then
23:13:35amiconn(for c5000 APE, that is)
23:14:19amiconnIt does, as long as you use a simple WPS and don't try to run plugins or otherwise produce extra load
23:14:28TheSeveni read that it needs ~120% to play properly, but aache just played fine for me with 101&
23:14:30TheSeven101%*
23:14:39amiconnIt's called insane for a reason.
23:14:51gevaertsTheSeven: those numbers assume slowish CPUs I guess
23:15:06TheSeven101% still confuses me though
23:15:09gevaerts120% on a 500MHz CPU is not the same as 120% on a 80MHz one
23:15:13amiconnOn older ARM architectures it's even slower - the ARMv6 code uses SIMD instructions
23:15:28TheSevenamiconn: I'm running on ARMv4
23:15:49TheSevenmaybe one day we'll see how it performs on the ARMv7 ipod lying next to my nano2g
23:15:52amiconnyea
23:16:19*TheSeven doesn't even know what that one is clocked at yet
23:16:20amiconnSomeone would need to write the necessary ARMv7 asm first
23:16:44drf|laptopHey, my friend wants to know if, on the Sansa c200, you can "hotswap" MicroSD card
23:16:45TheSevenc4000 is 59% realtime, 324MHz
23:16:45drf|laptop*s
23:16:51drf|laptopor do you have to turn it off and on when you switch cards?
23:17:27*amiconn points TheSeven to http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SoundCodecMonkeysAudio
23:17:29TheSevenand c5000 is ~5% realtime judging from the progress
23:18:06amiconnJudging from the other figures, it should be ~10..11%
23:19:20amiconnHmm, or not
23:19:26amiconnThe Clip figures are kinda weird
23:19:34TheSevenhm, it has decoded 7 seconds by now
23:19:57 Quit linuxstb ("Leaving")
23:20:27TheSevenhm, something exceeding dcache size?
23:20:43 Quit n1s ("Lämnar")
23:21:58 Quit petur ("Zzzzz")
23:22:49 Join linuxstb [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
23:23:10TheSeven15 seconds decoded
23:23:11drf|laptop.... OK so the manual for the e200 says there's a "USB HID Mode" setting in System Settings
23:23:18drf|laptopI don't see it. it has everything BUT USB settings
23:24:02TheSevenamiconn: ~3.5...4%
23:25:11gevaertsdrf|laptop: That setting is newer than the 3.4 release. If you want it, use a current build. You can probably achieve what you want by using the hold switch though
23:25:21drf|laptopUm
23:25:23drf|laptopI have the newest one
23:25:25drf|laptopoff the site
23:25:29drf|laptopoh wait
23:25:33drf|laptop3.4 is the "release", right?
23:25:47gevaerts3.4 is the 3.4 release, yes
23:26:08drf|laptopso you're saying I need a current build, rather than 3.4?
23:26:31AlexP<gevaerts> drf|laptop: That setting is newer than the 3.4 release. If you want it, use a current build. You can probably achieve what you want by using the hold switch though
23:26:39AlexPyes, I think that is what he is saying
23:26:42drf|laptopOK
23:29:14drf|laptopOhh, and then just turn USB HID off?
23:29:31drf|laptopcool.
23:30:52 Quit domonoky1 (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
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23:41:44 Nick evilnick__ is now known as evilnick (n=evilnick@ool-4571af51.dyn.optonline.net)
23:42:52*TheSeven wouldn't have thought that c3000 is faster than aache64
23:44:41 Nick drf|laptop is now known as drf|away (i=Your_Mom@markley-139017.reshall.umich.edu)
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23:52:35Tornegevaerts: it looks like it might be possible to downgrade the flash in the beast, btw
23:52:56Tornegevaerts: if you look at the latest things i added to the ootloader info page, it runs the upgrade process if the files on disk are a *different* timestamp to the ones in flash, including older
23:53:08Torneit might reject it later, though, when it checks the sigs, haven't got that far yet.
23:53:10gevaertsTorne: I noticed, yes
23:53:20Torneit only does one file per boot
23:53:28Tornethen presumably reboots after flashing and runs the next one
23:56:16Unhelpfuldo we have an image for the older flash?
23:56:22gevaertsTorne: suppose you have a 240GB disk, with a normal firmware partition, a really small data partition to keep the flash code happy, and a big partition with the rest that's not mentioned in the partition table, would that work as far as you know now?
23:56:57gevaertsTorne: also, "Must be two partitions". How does it check?
23:57:21*Unhelpful still thinks that rockbootflash would be ideal if we're going to *really* screw with the the disk layout/size...
23:57:45TorneUnhelpful: i have 1.1, 1.2 and 1.3 from updaters
23:57:51TorneUnhelpful: and i have dumps of a bunch of people's flashes
23:57:54TorneUnhelpful: so probably
23:58:07Tornegevaerts: you would hae to not put it in the partition table at all, i believe
23:58:12Unhelpful*really*? i've only ever seen one updater version, i didn't know we had a selection :D
23:58:26Tornegevaerts: it checks taht the other two entries are empty
23:58:31Torneby, er, some condition
23:58:34gevaertsTorne: as in, type 0?
23:58:37Tornei think it counts how many have nonzero types, yes
23:58:49Tornei can check..
23:58:59Tornei mean we could work around that

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