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#rockbox log for 2009-11-27

00:01:08kugelwhat happened to the usb-driver-as-plugin idea?
00:01:27gevaertsit's still an idea
00:01:37pamauryThis is an orthogonal problem
00:02:02gevaertsusb-driver-as-plugin really needs multiple plugin loading
00:02:12 Join r0b- [0] (n=TechGuy@99.54.129.120)
00:02:18 Quit HBK (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
00:02:25r0b-is it possible to create animated wallpapers for Rockbox?
00:03:23 Join HBK [0] (n=hbk@rrcs-97-77-51-170.sw.biz.rr.com)
00:03:25 Join distill3d [0] (n=TARDIS@195.174.97.230)
00:03:26 Quit petur ("Zzzzz")
00:03:58kugelmaybe it would be easier to imeplement that idea like codecs, and with a separate usb-driver buffer
00:04:46gevaertsNo. We have multiple USB drivers that we want at the same time
00:05:06gevaertsAlso, I don't want yet another permanently allocated buffer that's only used every now and then
00:05:10 Quit GeekShadow (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:05:15kugeldoes my idea preclude that?
00:05:47gevaertsno, but it also doesn't solve any of the real issues as far as I can see
00:06:21kugelI doubt doing them in a plugin-like fashion is going to work easily
00:07:43pamauryI agree it's more like a codec but there are probably lots of real issues in the implementation.
00:08:02gevaertsare there actually real differences between codecs and plugins?
00:09:04kugelwell, codecs are conceptually different, and then there are some other difference
00:13:59kugelcodecs are utilized by the core, as in they have their own thread instead of overtaking the main thread
00:14:56gevaertsBoth are blobs of code and data that have one or more public functions (plugin_start for plugins, I don't know about the codecs), and that get a table of function pointers they can call
00:14:57CtcpPing from gevaerts!n=fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts
00:14:57CtcpPing from gevaerts!n=fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts
00:15:01kugelbut even if the differences between codecs and plugins aren't huge, usb drivers are probably going to be more like codecs
00:15:20CtcpPing from gevaerts!n=fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts
00:15:51 Quit gevaerts ("Reconnecting")
00:15:59 Join gevaerts [0] (n=fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts)
00:17:03pamauryYes but having say so, it doesn't change the fact a big part of usb core has probably to be rewritten to handle loadable usb drivers. The same probably applies to usb drivers themselves
00:18:42 Quit Lss (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:18:51gevaertsnot really I think. The USB drivers call a very limited set of core functions (storage for MSC, and the USB ones). Those need a plugin_api like table. The other way is already done by a set of function pointers
00:19:59pamauryWell it depends on the driver. A driver like MTP requires quite a big set of functions
00:21:03gevaertsbut anyway, loadable USB drivers make no sense at all if they need another reserved block of memory, so using the plugin buffer seems to be the most sensible idea there, unless we allocate them on the audio buffer...
00:21:32gevaertspamaury: you add dircache, tagcache and file access, right?
00:22:29pamauryMy current code needs dircache and file access (including fat functions to retrive free space). It currently doesn't use tagcache but will use it at some point probably
00:22:55pamauryI don't have anything in mind.
00:23:13gevaertsthose are still the easy bits I think. Multiple plugins are the real problem.
00:23:35pamauryIndeed if the plugin system was not designed for it
00:23:39gevaertsAnd as long as nobody proposes a workable solution for that, loadable USB drivers will remain a dream
00:24:25gevaertsThe plugin system as such could handle it. Just a table of pointers on both sides. It's the lack of a good way to do position independent blobs of code that's the problem
00:24:41 Quit GeekShado_ ("The cake is a lie !")
00:24:44pamauryCan't the compiler to that ?
00:24:49pamaury*do
00:25:23pamauryThen it's just a question of relocs, no ? (I only have x86 knowledge but it shouldn't be that different in that case)
00:25:35gevaertsthe compiler can if I understand things correctly. The linker can't. At least not without help from the loader
00:25:37soapam I the only one who is curious about the validity of the CC license on The Simpsons theme? http://themes.rockbox.org/index.php?target=ipodvideo
00:25:47gevaertssoap: no
00:26:15soapI know I've been gone for a few months, but I didn't see anything about a change in policy.
00:26:46pamaurygevaerts: what do you mean by the linker can't ?
00:27:32gevaertspamaury: it will generate a global offset table usually, which you have to fix up while loading. Torne's opinion was that it's a mess
00:27:48gevaertsI haven't looked in detail
00:28:32pamauryThis looks similar to relocations. The current code is linked for a particuliar address ?
00:28:47gevaertsyes
00:29:42pamauryBut then there is only one loaded codec at a time ?
00:30:14gevaertsyes
00:30:57pamauryNo the fundamental problem is to be able to load several blobs of code in a position independent way. That's problem a none trivial change indeed
00:31:05pamaury* s/No/So
00:32:29gevaertsIt's doable of course, but the question is if the complexity and possibly larger code is worth the gains
00:33:43pamauryNot sure about the complexity. One has to look in detail.
00:34:38gevaertsthis is probably going to be platform specific, so it would have to be solved four times (at this time), plus some work for the sims
00:35:40pamaurySure the amount of work required is important.
00:39:14 Quit Rob2222 ()
00:39:31kugelgevaerts: plugins on the sim are dynamically linked AFAIK anyway, so that wouldn't be a huge problem
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00:40:20***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:40:54pamauryOn the sims, there is not problem because it's implemented in the OS
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00:53:16amiconnpamaury: Can't you just use the cluster number of the first cluster as an identifier?
00:53:27amiconngoned
00:54:20mcuelenaerehmm looks like MIPS has a separate register to do PIC, while ARM adds the address of each referenced variable at the end of the function: http://pastebin.com/m5dfab3f3
00:54:34*mcuelenaere wonders whether something similar could be done on ARM
00:56:53gevaertsamiconn: I suspect that that depends on whether there are write operations. I suspect that changing tags might not be possible in-place in all containers. That could mean that the cluster number is not constant enough
00:57:01*gevaerts isn't entirely sure
00:57:57amiconnDoes that matter, i.e. is it allowed that the id of an object changes if the object itself changes?
00:59:02gevaertsI don't know for sure, but I would assume that it isn't allowed, or it would be pretty tricky to write more than one tag in a row
00:59:32amiconnIf the total number of clusrers isn't too high it would be possible to use the cluster number of the containing folder, combined with the dirindex of the file
00:59:47 Quit ShapeShifter499 ("ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.5/20091109125225]")
00:59:50gevaertsthat breaks if files are added
00:59:55amiconnno
01:00
01:00:11amiconnWhy would it?
01:00:12gevaertsoh indeed
01:00:16mcuelenaerehmm using -msingle-pic-base -fpic on ARM does that
01:00:17*gevaerts is stupid today
01:00:52amiconnNew files are either appended, or reuse deleted entries
01:01:12amiconnThat means a new object might get the same id as a previously deleted object though
01:01:41gevaertsyes, but if it's deleted explicitely, that shouldn'd be a problem I hope
01:02:24amiconnProblem is that fat32 cluster numbers can be max. 28 bit. If a volume really makes use of the full range, there are only 4 bits left for dirindex...
01:03:17gevaertsMaybe not even that. I don't know if the ID has to be unique per volume or per device
01:03:50gevaertsIt could break if operations involve working on a copy of the file and then renaming back. That can be worked around in various more or less clean ways of course
01:04:39gevaertsif you reduce the problem to building an id for each directory, possibly just maintaining a list in RAM is doable. There are likely a lot less directories than files
01:04:46gevaertsalthough you never know
01:05:42amiconnA directory can have a maximum of 64K entries (2MByte)
01:06:15amiconnThat means the dirindex is 16 bits
01:07:26amiconnOne file very likely uses several entries (lfn mechanism)
01:08:16gevaertsyou can't really make use of that though, as it doesn't reduce the range of the indexes
01:09:16*amiconn wonders how likely a hash collision would be (crc32)
01:11:39gevaertsI'd really go for using either dircache, or if that's not possible due to lowmem, a disk-backed specialised LRU cache, possibly only for the directories. Lowmem targets are likely to use flash, so performance shouldn't be too bad
01:14:03Tornemcuelenaere: -fpic makes ARM use a base register, but it doesn't work the way you think
01:14:14mcuelenaereTorne: why not?
01:14:17Tornemcuelenaere: the way -fpic works is intimately tied up with the notion of what a shared library is.
01:14:38mcuelenaereTorne: do you know of any docs of this?
01:14:41*mcuelenaere couldn't find much
01:14:50Tornethe references to variables are not offsets from the data section, they are references to indexes into the GOT
01:14:57Torneand the GOT is just filled with relocs
01:15:03Torneso you need a dynamic loader.
01:15:14mcuelenaereah..
01:15:17TorneThere is no way to make -fpic generate code that can work withuot a dynamic loader afaict
01:15:28Torneand there is no way to get gcc to avoid positino dependencies without -fpic :)
01:15:51TorneThere are ancient patches to gcc written by uclinux people which provide other pic modes which are more suitable for embedded.. but they are for 2.95 era
01:16:03Torneno chance of applying them to 4.x and they seem to be buggy
01:16:38Tornebut yah, i fyou want to see, compile something with -fpic
01:16:40mcuelenaereis that -fembedded-pic? that should be on 3.0 (not that it helps much)
01:16:52Tornethe embedded-pic option *never* worked
01:17:01Tornebut yes it was for 3.x
01:17:06Tornethe one tha worked was -mno-got on 2.95
01:17:12mcuelenaere3.3*
01:17:14mcuelenaereah
01:17:14Torneas far as i can tell uclinux gave up
01:17:21Tornethey use elf2flt now
01:17:25gevaertsassuming 10000 files per DAP, and perfect hash distribution, if my calculations are not wrong, there's about 20% chance of at least one collision if there are 100000 DAPs. 2.5% for 10000 DAPs
01:17:39Tornebasically, converting elf to a much simpler format, but one that still has relocations
01:17:50Tornewe could do that, but then we'd need code to apply the relocs
01:18:36Tornesomeone suggested -fpie should be closer, but linking with -pie forces the linker into -shared mode and it starts producing dynamic link information which you can't really remove without breaking it :)
01:18:57gevaertsTorne: are the relocations much more than just adding the same number to every word in the gop?
01:19:15Tornegevaerts: yes. :)
01:19:23gevaertsok, forget about me asking :)
01:19:23Tornethey don't all refer to data section, they can also refer to text section
01:19:34Tornealso, the way we link atm resolves all these refs
01:19:49Tornei can compile plugins -fpic just fine, if i add a .got section to the link script
01:20:00Tornebut the resulting .elf for each plugin is fully relocated to the plugin buffer :)
01:20:06Torneso the code got worse for nothing.
01:20:17gevaertsfor sh I get an ICE on one plugin if I do that :)
01:20:20Torneto stop it doing this you'd have to start convincing the toolchain to link plugins as shared libraries
01:20:31Torneso that they are left witht he relocs in.
01:20:40Tornetbh i think we'd be better off doing what uclinux does
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01:20:59Tornebuild regular non-pic code, with relocations, and link it without resolving the relocs
01:21:07Tornethen run it through elf2flt to turn it into a flatbinary
01:21:13Torneand implement a flat binary loader :)
01:21:19Tornethe code to relocate flts is pretty simple
01:21:41Tornethe resulting code would be identical to what we run now, it would just take slightly longer to load a plugin
01:22:29Tornewe should probably find some kind of gcc/ld guru though and check i haven't missed something
01:22:49Tornewe could live with a patched gcc, even, i guess.
01:23:02Torneas long as the patch was actually reliable
01:23:13gevaertson the other hand maybe we should just not care too much, and send people who want this sort of thing to ipodlinux...
01:23:18Tornethat's the alternative, yah
01:23:35Tornei'm not advocating doing this :)
01:23:43Tornejust if we were going to do it this is how we'd probably have to do it
01:24:42mcuelenaereTorne: is the newest version of elf2flt on http://www.uclinux.org/pub/uClinux/utilities/?
01:26:13 Quit dfkt ("-= SysReset 2.53=- Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.")
01:26:41Tornemcuelenaere: haven't a clue
01:26:50Tornethe uclinnux stuff all seems to be exceptionally badly documented
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01:27:07Torneif someone wanted to take this further they should talk to gcc/binutils people and also to uclinux people
01:27:10Tornebut i can't be arsed
01:27:41Tornein other news i nearly have frotz working on rockbox
01:27:49Tornei can run curses, which is a pretty big game
01:28:03Tornebut inputting commands only works if the commands have nine or more letters
01:28:09Torneso you can say "inventory"
01:28:11Tornebut not "quit"
01:28:47Torneregardless of this bug it is just as painful to play a text adventure on rockbox as i suspected it would be
01:28:53Torne:)
01:29:27gevaertsTorne: you're now the ideal tester for all those virtual keyboard patches :)
01:29:44Torneyeah, i guess
01:29:52Tornei need to fix this input bug, and then poke at screen output some more
01:30:02Torneit doesn't *quite* print things int he right places sometimes it seems
01:30:17Tornebut it's surprising how easy this port was to get to a working level :)
01:30:23Tornefrotz is impressively portable
01:32:00*amiconn wonders how large and complex a relocating loader would actually be
01:33:07Unhelpfuldepends, probably, on the executable format. one adapted very closely to our purposes could be *quite* simple, i'd think...
01:33:49Torneamiconn: a loader for flt is very simple, tbh
01:33:51Unhelpfulit would be nice if we could replace use of struct plugin_api with relocs
01:33:54Tornethe relocs are a single table of words
01:34:18Torneyou just add the base address to each thing pointed to
01:34:30Tornewith a couple of bits used to tell you which section
01:34:53 Quit archivator ("Leaving")
01:34:57*amiconn would be interested in (coarse) numbers
01:35:00Unhelpfulespecially for gcc-generated calls to mem*, which would no longer need to go through a function in pluginlib that then calls by pointer to the core mem*
01:35:11TorneYah, we could have relocations relative to the rocbox binary's .text, which would remove the plugin_api struct
01:35:25Tornenot sure if flt can quite do that but the same principle applies
01:35:55Tornesymbian does something similar, we convert elf to a really stupid inary format with fixed number of sections and very simple reloc format
01:35:55amiconnTorne: That wouldn't save anything by itself though - you'd need the offsets instead of the addresses
01:36:14Torneamiconn: hm?
01:36:26Torneamiconn: you leave the offset in the place that's going to be relocated
01:36:41Torne(where ELF leaves it as 0)
01:36:44 Join tomers [0] (n=chatzill@bzq-84-109-85-100.red.bezeqint.net)
01:36:55amiconnIf you replace the plugin api by relocation, the core would need an offset table to these functions
01:37:07TorneOh, right
01:37:15Torneyes.
01:37:25Torneit would still make the code run faster
01:37:40Torneyou can resolve that at load time, instead of at every call
01:37:40Unhelpfulamiconn: yes, the core would need an offset table, which would probably take as much space as the plugin_api, but the plugins would be smaller/faster since they could short-call core functions
01:38:11amiconnShort-call? Nah.
01:38:12Torneheh, that's even *more* like symbian in fact: that's basically link by ordinal
01:38:22TorneDLL style linkage instead of shlib
01:39:04amiconnNot on the beast, and not on the 60/80GB iPod Video
01:39:48Torneamiconn: why not?
01:39:51amiconnHmm, not correct. If we do relocation, the plugin buffer wouldn't need a fixed address anymore. It could go right after the core binary
01:39:52Unhelpfulamiconn: why could they not be short calls? the loader would write the correct offsets into the plugin code branch instructions...
01:40:10Torneyah, that was one of the benefits
01:40:17Tornenot just multiple plugins, but dropping the fixed address
01:40:24amiconnTorne, Unhelpful: Max. offset for short calls is +/-32MB iirc. Said targets have 64MB RAM
01:40:26 Quit robin0800 (Remote closed the connection)
01:40:43Tornethen if you put the audio buffer at the end fo ram you can use the same build for 32/64mb ipodvideo
01:40:49amiconnSo if we leave the buffers where they are, short calls wouldn't be possible
01:40:56Torneyes, i was assuming we would move the buffers
01:41:21Tornealso on beast we have an MMU anyway.. we could map stuff wherever right now, without any of this
01:41:23Unhelpfulamiconn: ah, i see your point. we could change the layout to fix that, though, and with relocation we can pretty much put the plugin buffer wherever we want, without recompiling the plugins.
01:41:29amiconnYeah, so what binsize are we talking here? 1KB? 10KB?
01:41:54Torneamiconn: a flt style loader, i'd guess probably 1-2kb of code only
01:42:08Torneit's basically just a loop and a switch statement
01:42:22amiconnUnhelpful: In fact that would allow to turn the current "overlay" plugins into regular, but oversized, plugins
01:42:24Torneiterate over relocs, switch on type, read/add/write each pplace in ram
01:42:34amiconn(provided the plugin buffer is placed "right"
01:42:50UnhelpfulTorne: i like the idea of doing link-by-ordinal for core functions. we could use the *exact* same logic to validate plugins as now :)
01:43:17TorneUnhelpful: yes. we are already doing link by ordinal, just deferred to call time :)
01:44:11amiconnThere are also some pointers in the plugin api. Iiuc dynamic linking would also save a level of indirection there?
01:44:24Unhelpfulamiconn: that's the idea exactly. :)
01:44:24amiconn(I mean pointers to variables)
01:44:32Torneyup, that would need to be a different type but still
01:44:44Torneyou canm make do with a handful of reloc types, maybe ~8
01:44:55Torne(as opposed to the 110 you have with ARM ELF)
01:44:56Unhelpfulyes, you *could* have a reloc type for reads, writes, load-address-of, etc.
01:45:21amiconnTorne: I don't know this flt format. Do you know the Amiga hunk format?
01:45:27amiconnThat also looks quite simple
01:45:30Torneno :)
01:45:34Tornei don't really now flt either
01:45:40Tornei'm going by the vague description i read on the itnernets
01:45:49Torneand my existing knowledge of E32Image from symbian ;)
01:46:04amiconnhmm
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01:46:22Torneif flt is suitable for our purposes then it'd be ideal because of the already-existing elf2flt
01:46:41Torneif we did our own format we would need to write somethign that can read ELF
01:46:41Tornethis is NIGHTMARISH in the extreme ;)
01:46:47Torneeven with elflib
01:46:57Torneit's just such a complex format :(
01:47:00Unhelpfulamiconn: do you know any trick to force newgcc to treat cross-section adr pseudo-op as valid? it's an issue for eabi on gigabeat f. it's easily fixable, and the current code *is* technically invalid...
01:47:05amiconnIt would need to support all our archs though
01:48:34TorneUnhelpful: adr just doesn't work that way, no? surely it's just going to generate a ldr= anyway?
01:48:46Torneamiconn: yes, i have no idea which arches work.
01:48:54amiconnUnhelpful: I have no idea
01:48:57UnhelpfulTorne: no, it generates an add <target>, pc, <offset>
01:49:32Torneyah, but it doesn't now where the section is going to be does it
01:49:36Torneso it has to emit a reloc
01:49:41gevaertsTorne: flt is the standard uclinux format?
01:49:49Tornegevaerts: it's *a* uclinux format
01:49:52Tornei dunno about standard
01:49:55gevaertshm, ok
01:50:03Torneit can be used to produce XIP binaries
01:50:05UnhelpfulTorne: yes, and newer gcc validates the section, probably at link time?
01:50:09Tornewith additional caution
01:50:15gevaertsotherwise I wouldn't think architecture is something to worry about
01:50:19Unhelpfulit's given a section in the asm, though, so it might be flagged as bad then
01:50:50Torneif it was bad at asm time it would fail then, surely
01:51:04Torneare the two sections in question being combined int eh link script?
01:51:12Torneor are they just emitted near each other?
01:51:22Tornei suspect if you combine them the reloc will work
01:51:54UnhelpfulTorne: lemme try it again?
01:52:29Unhelpfulper docs the adr pseudo op is valid only for symbols in the same section as the code
01:52:30Tornewoo, input bug is fixed
01:52:35Torneah right.
01:52:44Tornewell, frotz kinda works then
01:53:06Tornei managed to "close trapdoor" "take key" "inventory" "quit" in curses, which is one of the biggest z5 games there is
01:53:06 Quit distill3d (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:53:16Tornethere's some minor rendering bugs with inverted text in the quoteboxes
01:53:23Tornebut hey.
01:53:32 Join distill3d [0] (n=TARDIS@195.174.97.230)
01:53:47Unhelpfulthe assembler fails it.
01:54:26Unhelpfulthe symbols is previously defined when the code is reached, and labeled with a section. that's enough to determine that the adr is invalid at compile time
01:54:54Unhelpful/home/chshrcat/build/rockbox/firmware/target/arm/s3c2440/crt0.S:558: Error: symbol vectors is in a different section
01:55:25*Torne is gonna go to bed now that frotz is working :)
01:55:40Torneactually, a quick question: can you actually type in the simulator?
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01:55:44Torneas in when soemthing calls kbd_input can you just type in the text? :)
01:56:04Torneinstead of simulating the onscreen keyboard
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02:00
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02:14:16amiconnUnhelpful: If 'adr' is turned into a pc relative add, it sure won't work over longer distances, since the offset is an ordinary arm shifted constant, or am I missing something?
02:15:09amiconnTorne: No, since the simulator is there to simulate target behaviour as close as possible
02:15:25Unhelpfulamiconn: it's not a very long distance, the issue is that it is explicitly stated to be invalid between sections, and that is now enforced.
02:15:39amiconnYou'll want rockbox-as-an-app (which doesn't exist yet)
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05:28:38CIA-80New commit by 03mc2739 (r23769): Manual - Describe how to work with FMR files ...
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05:37:38CrackerizerHello,
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05:39:07CrackerizerI have uploaded thai language to patch tracker for somtime now. But it's still not accepted.
05:39:38CrackerizerIn the past, it is usually acceped in a couple days.
05:40:01CrackerizerSo, i may do something wrong this time.
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05:50:52LloreanCrackerizer: Everything depends on peoples' free times. It probably just means nobody's had a chance to look at it yet.
05:51:07LloreanIf there were a problem, it would be posted as a comment.
05:53:12CrackerizerLlorean, I just wonder as it's always accepted very fast.
05:53:53LloreanI just told you, it depends on peoples' free time. It won't always be.
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06:20:18eeinany suggestions for a sandisk e200 series that wont boot the bootloader "file not found" and doesn't show up as a drive?
06:21:03eeinwas copying files to it before it bombed out saying could not read source, just rockboxed it 40 minutes ago
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06:22:42eeinboot ver 6
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10:57:50Zagorwhat is the recorder_pad target name used in the lang files?
10:58:24Zagorah, it's a feature
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11:00:17gevaertsit's not a bug? :)
11:00:30Zagor:)
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11:19:31Zagorsed:ing the lang files wasn't as bad as I thought
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11:36:02amiconnZagor: I have a question regarding 'configure'
11:36:46amiconnRight now when you reconfigure, it still asks for those values where you just hit 'enter' when first configuring the build
11:36:54amiconnThis is especially annoying when dealing with voice builds
11:37:30amiconnImo it would be better to have a global batch mode in 'configure', so this could be handled easily. What do you think?
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11:44:39Overandjkbl;'
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12:08:01Zagoramiconn: sounds good to me
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12:13:45drachei have a question about the hardware mp3 player supportm which i can't find on your website
12:14:09dracheso perhaps one of you could help me out?
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12:15:18Zagordrache: you need to ask the question before we can help
12:15:42dracheok, I want to know if the Ipod nano 5g is curently supported by rockbox
12:16:02Zagor"Apple: 1st through 5.5th generation iPod"
12:16:07Zagorso, yes
12:16:22Zagorblah sorry, nano. no, that's not supported
12:16:22dracheoh this sounds great
12:16:28dracheno
12:16:49dracheand I thought this 5g device is supported
12:17:11dracheso which mp3 player do you prefer to use with rockbox
12:17:28Zagorthe ones listed on the front page?
12:17:43drachei think about to choose the ipod nano 5g as fist
12:18:02drachebut now i need to choose another
12:19:23dracheand what about the ipod touch?
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12:21:57Zagordrache: no. only the ones listed on the front page.
12:24:22topikthe mere fact you can't find it on the website means it's not supported
12:25:57dracheok now i understood. thanks for your help
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12:29:52CIA-80New commit by 03zagor (r23770): Changed player lists a bit. Added catch-all 'not supported' line at the bottom.
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12:35:39Torneamiconn: i don't really want rockbox as an app, i want to be able to test stuff that involves a lot of typing without it being very tedious :)
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13:12:36seaniI've found some cheap v2 C250's that I gambled on as progress seems to be good. Should I hold off sharing the source on the forum? Wary of mentioning it and causing a flood of "demands" for progress.
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13:41:32*soap_ doesn't understand the question.
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13:42:50Soapseani, are you asking if you should reveal where you got cheap C250 v2s?
13:47:17geertvdijkSoap: I think he means that yes. To prevent people demanding (or nagging, or whatnot) more progress for the C200-v2 series
13:49:34Soapsounds like seani has codependency issues. ;) If people act like whiny bitches it's not seani's problem. I want a cheap DAP.
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13:56:46seaniYes, that was it really. Might not even be thay cheap (20 inc. delivery?) but they were convenient for me. And the OF isn't the end of the world if it doesn't work out, still not a bad little player
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14:00:14seaniSoap: Item 270481778367 - right that's the end of my OT chuntering. And I'd rather not risk being psychoanalysed any further :-)
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15:40:34Tornei have some code to put into a plugin; most of it is declared as GPLv2 with a notice in each file, but one part is just "Any use permitted as long as this notice remains intact"
15:40:45Torneshould I just slap a GPLv2 notice on those as well? or what?
15:40:53Tornei'v emodified those files significantly for rockbox porting
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15:54:57CIA-80New commit by 03mcuelenaere (r23771): Jz4740: init I²C GPIO pins
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16:06:31pixelmaTorne: what about Macpods? (re. forum post)
16:10:43Tornepixelma: the installer doesn't format them, does it?
16:10:47Torneyou would have to do that yourself
16:11:29*Torne edits.
16:20:54CIA-80New commit by 03mc2739 (r23772): Fix FS #10817 - Wrong layout of the keymap table for the 'While Recording Screen'
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16:41:55Zagortarget name change: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/10819
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16:44:21gevaertsZagor: doesn't it also need buildserver/builds?
16:44:35Zagorgevaerts: look closer :)
16:44:42Zagorsecond line of www.patch
16:44:52gevaertsoh, it's in www...
16:44:54*gevaerts forgot
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16:57:03linuxstbZagor: The uisim bitmaps need renaming too - you don't mention that in the task.
16:57:29Zagorah, good
16:58:41linuxstbAnd did you want to keep the first gen Nano as "ipodnano", not "ipodnano1g" ?
16:59:13Zagorno, it's supposed to be 1g. where did I miss it?
16:59:27linuxstbEverywhere I think...
16:59:40linuxstbAs in, I didn't notice any use of "ipodnano1g"
17:00
17:00:34linuxstbipodpatcher (mainly the Makefile) will need adjusting if you change that, but I'm happy to do that after you commit all this.
17:00:49Zagorthe diff is a bit broken, since svn insists on only reporting the remove part of renamed files
17:01:26linuxstbBut I don't think you changed tools/configure and builds.pm still uses ipodnano
17:01:39linuxstb(and the lang files...)
17:01:51Zagorwe must be looking at different files...
17:01:56Zagor+ 'ipodnano1g' => {
17:02:08linuxstbI'm looking at your upload diff...
17:02:13linuxstbs/upload/uploaded/
17:03:14linuxstbAh, sorry....
17:03:17Zagorthe lang files are indeed wrong
17:03:32linuxstbAh, I was looking at builds.pm in www
17:03:42linuxstbNot the file with the same name in tools/
17:03:57Zagorright, that has been changed to a symlink. but again svn diff is not very helpful :-(
17:04:27linuxstbIs it changed in tools/configure?
17:04:33Zagoryes
17:04:47Zagoruh, not the nano no :)
17:04:59Zagorpeer review rocks :)
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17:06:00linuxstbShouldn't "ipodvideo" be "ipodvideo32mb" ?
17:06:08n1sZagor: is "<Zagor> the diff is a bit broken, since svn insists on only reporting the remove part of renamed files" why so many config-*.h files look like they're just deleted?
17:06:23*linuxstb doesn't know how that would affect the name of the bootloader though...
17:06:33Zagorn1s: yes, I moved them to a config/ dir
17:07:01n1sah, i've been thinking about doing that, nice :)
17:07:28ZagorI figured this was a good occation since I'd be changing many of them anyway
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17:09:54Zagoripodmini1g is also wrong in several places. I'll fix that tonight.
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18:09:18Tornehmm, am i right ot assume that a plugin shouldn't keep a filehandle open for ages if it might exit() somewhere in the middle? ;)
18:10:11n1si think so :)
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18:19:04CIA-6New commit by 03mc2739 (r23773): Manual - correct FM Radio volume key mapping problems on Fuze, Gigabeat S (remote), e200, and e200v2
18:21:23Tornen1s: hm, it looks like it dosn't keep the filehandle open for a very good reason, so hey :)
18:22:44n1sTorne: i wonder if we can guard against filehandles kept open after exiting plugins, might interfere with tsr plugins maybe though
18:24:02Tornei doubt we could do so easily
18:24:45Torneatm there's no way for anything else to know whether a plugin is doing it.
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19:08:54saratogawho has an HDD 1620 ?
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19:09:27saratogaMarkArigo i guess
19:09:39saratogawe should see about getting it made unstable
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20:27:36n1sUnhelpful_: got a chance to look closer at your testresults now, so AFAIU -fstrict aliasing with gcc 4.0.3 is faster with all codecs using the same option otherwise except ape (unchanged), mp3 (very slightly worse) and vw (slightly worse) so it seems an overall win even with our current compiler
20:30:18n1sresults might differ with other ARM's though
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20:37:17n1sas for gcc versions, it seems half the codecs are faster with one version and half with the other now that you found the properly tuned settings ;)
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20:54:52*gevaerts tries some of this thinking about user testing thing he didn't manage yesterday
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21:06:02notlisteningbluebrother, I ma hving trouble compiling rbutil under ubuntu 9.10 and geeting QT issues with versions
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21:06:46notlisteningProject ERROR: Qt >= 4.3 required! and my versions 4.5.1
21:10:16bertriknotlistening, is the -dev package also up to date?
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21:12:28notlisteninglet me see
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21:20:42notlisteningqt 3 & 4 together was causing problems
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21:53:17notlisteningDoes anyone know current if the rbutil will sync the .voice file with the current build from svn or only the version rbutil installs?
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23:00
23:01:00stripwax_Hm, looks like convbdf supports rotated and unrotated fonts. Given that many targets are now horizontally packed rather than vertically packed, what's the reason for using rotated fonts for all targets? would have thought unrotated fonts would be better for horizontally packed targets
23:02:24B4gderwell, it makes the font files target independent
23:04:16stripwax_mm true .. do the build zips not include any fonts? (I can't recall)
23:04:26B4gderno they don't
23:04:57B4gderwell, some font(s) but far from all
23:04:57gevaertsdon't they have the one for cabbie?
23:06:02stripwax_Themes on the theme site appear to include the fonts in the zip file, but the themes are target specific anyway ..
23:06:59gevaertsnot really. They are resolution specific
23:07:12stripwax_good point, well made
23:08:40stripwax_anyway, was just wondering. just happened across the #ifdef ROTATE stuff in convbdf. the ipod video mono_bitmap_part code ends up rereading (effectively) the same memory over and over (byte reads) and thinking if the font data was horizontally packed it would mean 4x fewer memory reads
23:09:31stripwax_^would^could - in the limit
23:10:07B4gderhistorically, the fonts were rotated at load time
23:10:16stripwax_ah I see
23:10:25B4gderand when the code was changed to store the fonts rotated, I believe the code was written like that
23:10:28pamaurygevaerts: why there is a difference in NUM_VOLUMES_PER_DRIVE depending on whether HAVE_MULTIVOLUME is explicit or not ? Why set to one if it's implicit ?
23:10:46stripwax_don't suppose anyone would be in favour of core code that supports both rotate and unrotated fonts ?
23:11:44B4gderif it makes a noticeable difference I guess a few will
23:12:31gevaertspamaury: we don't want to waste RAM. Implicit HAVE_MULTIVOLUME just means that there's a card slot or something similar, explicit means that this is a custom build that needs more than one partition
23:12:46*stripwax_ has a think and a poke around
23:14:32pamaurygevaerts: I don't think it will really waste memory, NUM_VOLUMES is basically only used in disk.c and it's a small array but if you say so...
23:14:56gevaertspamaury: in rockbox we tend to care about a few hundred bytes :)
23:15:42gevaertsOn something like an e200v1 you won't care, it has 32MB RAM and flash, but on an ondio with 2MB RAM, you do care
23:17:11pamauryHum, I guess were are talking about a array of int of size NUM_VOLUMES, that's a few bytes ! But I understand that usually, there is one partition per drive
23:17:42gevaertsum, no, there's more
23:18:11gevaertslook at static struct bpb fat_bpbs[NUM_VOLUMES]; in fat.c
23:19:05gevaertsthat's 25 ints per volume
23:19:51pamauryok I didn't see this...
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