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#rockbox log for 2009-12-16

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00:11:58JdGordon|so how do people feel about a tracker clean up?
00:12:00JdGordon|and closing stupidly old bugs without any feedback or repro?
00:13:35bluebrotherwe should do some cleanup in some way, definitely.
00:13:40*gevaerts agrees
00:14:04gevaertsWe shouldn't overdo it of course
00:14:10bluebrotherquestion is if we should do it as a tracker cleanup week / month, bughunting month after the next release, or any other way
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00:19:34JdGordon|well, I brought it up because we decided to postpone the release because people thought we arnt at a releasable state... but there is no way to know how far away we are...
00:19:35JdGordon|so IMO we should do it before release
00:19:36 Nick namnuf is now known as funman^ (n=fun@86.66.143.7)
00:19:37bluebrotherbefore the release means during christmas. Which is likely to get less attention.
00:20:15JdGordon|well, I wonder how much attention it will get anyway... but I dont really see how we can release given the past discussion unless we do it
00:20:22JdGordon|using the next 2 weeks for it would be good
00:20:33JdGordon|and if we need to do it again after xmas so be it
00:22:05JdGordon|B4gder: you still round?
00:22:15B4gderyeps
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00:22:33JdGordon|can you add some release names to the tracker please?
00:23:05B4gdersure
00:23:17JdGordon|ta
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00:23:47JdGordon|really only 3.5 is needed, assuming anyone wants to mark a bug as a show stopper
00:24:44bluebrotherB4gder: while you're at it, can you also add rbutil svn and rbutil 1.2.3?
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00:26:40B4gderdone
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00:28:38bluebrotherthanks
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02:35:45ballIs ipodpatcher for Linux a binary?
02:36:17JdGordon|you can get the sources if you prefer
02:37:51ballJdGordon|: I'm not sure if they'd compile on NetBSD
02:38:06JdGordon|I'd be surprosed if they didnt
02:38:36ballWhere does the firmware live once it's installed? On the same filesystem as the music files?
02:39:19JdGordon|depends what you want to call the firmware
02:39:35ballSorry, I meant the Rockbox bootloader
02:39:40JdGordon|the bootloader lives seperatly and loads a rockbox binary from the same filesystem with your music
02:40:35ballDoes all of Rockbox (excluding the Bootloader) live in that .rockbox directory I got when I unzipped the Rockbox zip file?
02:40:45JdGordon|yes
02:40:55ballI may just give this a try
02:40:59ball(wish me luck! ;-)
02:41:25Xenocide21|afkits a good system
02:41:26Xenocide21|afk:)
02:41:31 Nick Xenocide21|afk is now known as xenocide21 (n=Xenocide@host-98-127-152-242.gdj-co.client.bresnan.net)
02:43:38ballxenocide21: I know that Rockbox is, I've been using it for years. I install it so infrequently that I forget the details though.
02:43:47ballIt's stable and just sits there and does its job.
02:43:51ball(in my experience)
02:44:01xenocide21yep
02:44:06xenocide21and great for ipod
02:44:15ballbrb
02:44:23xenocide21for example, itunes isnt compatable with Windows XP x64
02:44:27xenocide21:P
02:44:31 Quit Rondom (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
02:46:35xenocide21now finding music i want to drop in it is the challenge
02:50:24 Quit Rondom_ (Connection timed out)
02:50:56 Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net)
02:57:26ballSomehow I'm still in Rockbox 3.3, but at least it's still booting.
02:57:50krazykit`perhaps you neglected to unzip the newer build?
02:59:30ballkrazykit`: I unzipped /something/ ;-)
02:59:35ballAnyway, this'll work.
02:59:41ballxenocide21: I don't run MS Windows
03:00
03:00:04xenocide21i does
03:00:05xenocide21:P
03:01:04xenocide21where do i put the pacman roms?
03:01:06xenocide21lol
03:01:22ballxenocide21: ?
03:01:40xenocide21nevermind
03:02:00xenocide21rockbox has pacman :P but you need roms for it, so i downloaded them
03:02:02ballI unsoldered a Pacman ROM once
03:02:15ball24 pin mask-programmed ROM
03:02:23ball...so that I could put a socket on the cartridge
03:02:36xenocide21why
03:02:56ballxenocide21: ...I was experimenting with EPROMs
03:03:05ball...but the pinout was subtly different.
03:03:09krazykit`probably some reason unrelated to rockbox :)
03:04:15*ball nods
03:04:26ball##electronics ;-)
03:04:36xenocide21yay pacman works
03:05:05ballDoes Rockbox have a layer of Linux in it? uclinux?
03:05:17krazykit`nope
03:05:46ballkrazykit`: written against the bare metal?
03:06:02xenocide21it has to
03:06:07xenocide21because its a linux bootloader
03:06:16krazykit`it's not a linux bootloader
03:06:21xenocide21the hell it aint
03:06:24krazykit`at least for most of the targets
03:06:25xenocide21i asks for a linux kernel
03:06:43krazykit`what? no part of rockbox asks you for a linux kernel
03:06:44xenocide21i booted into the boot lhp-rockbox on it
03:06:50xenocide21it said it couldnt find a linux kernel
03:07:06krazykit`oh, for loading ipodlinux
03:07:09xenocide21i didnt say rockbox
03:07:14xenocide21the bootloader did
03:07:27xenocide21so there has to be some sort of connection between linux and rockbox
03:07:39ballDOS has a bootloader too ;-)
03:07:45xenocide21point?
03:07:45krazykit`yes, the rockbox bootloader for the ipods can boot into ipodlinux. that doesn't mean rockbox contains linux
03:07:51ball...as does CP/M and just about everything else :-)
03:07:54xenocide21its not a linux bootloader
03:08:18xenocide21ipodlinux hehe :P was thinkin about it actually
03:08:33xenocide2132 megs of ram on this ipod, i dunno what its CPU is but id imagine around 10MHz
03:08:33ballI'm guessing my iPod mini has some sort of ARM variant in it.
03:08:34 Quit fdinel (Connection timed out)
03:08:56xenocide21i believe ipods are Z80 cpus
03:08:59ballxenocide21: probably closer to 100 MHz, but it may lack a PMMU
03:09:06krazykit`it's documented on the rockbox wiki
03:09:11xenocide21O.o
03:09:15xenocide21100mhz on an ipod?
03:09:26krazykit`dual-core 80mhz ARM processor
03:09:28ballAlright, call it 50 MHz
03:09:31 Quit MethoS- (Remote closed the connection)
03:09:33ballOh, I was close! :-)
03:09:57krazykit`xenocide21, why would you be shocked by this? the gigabeat S has an arm clocked at 500-some mhz
03:09:59xenocide21ipods use Samsung ARM processors
03:10:04xenocide21and i havent found the speed yet
03:10:23ballxenocide21: 4.77 MHz ;-)
03:10:44xenocide21your sure?
03:12:02xenocide21CPU: ARM7TDMI CPU Speed: dual 80 MHz embedded
03:12:26xenocide21thats not bad actually
03:12:29ballxenocide21: That was an XT reference. Interesting stuff though.
03:12:46xenocide21XT?
03:12:48ballDoes it have hardware MP3 decode?
03:12:58ballxenocide21: IBM 5150
03:12:59xenocide21uhm
03:13:02xenocide21no it wasnt
03:13:07xenocide21http://history.eis.net.au/ipod_nano_2g.html
03:13:13xenocide21mines a 1g but still
03:13:14krazykit`no. the hwcodec devices do (the very earliest ports)
03:13:18xenocide21id imagine the same
03:13:43ballI wondered whether they had to work harder when playing Ogg/Vorbis than MP3
03:13:52xenocide211g nano is the same, dual core 80mhz arm
03:13:59balls/they/iPods/
03:14:24xenocide21so 32 megs of RAM and a dual core 80MHz cpu
03:14:37xenocide21hmm... linux might not be too bad on it
03:15:00ballxenocide21: Linux requires a PMMU though, right?
03:15:10ball...and ideally an FPU too.
03:15:11xenocide2116 bit color
03:15:11krazykit`ball, i believe that it does take more cpu time, but i don't think the difference is tremendous. you could to a test_codec run to see
03:15:20xenocide21linux will run on this ipod
03:15:27xenocide21ive seen linux on older ipods
03:16:08xenocide21it would be more like a PDA than a computer however
03:16:22xenocide21so im not concerned about any speed loss that might occur due to lack of hardware
03:16:47krazykit`well, talk of linux is offtopic for this channel
03:16:56xenocide21but its already patched with the bootloader :) so itll be easier to set up
03:17:06ballIs there an OS underneath Rockbox though?
03:17:08xenocide21know what else is off topic?
03:17:14ballxenocide21: pies?
03:17:19xenocide21my friend got genital herpies from his girlfriend he broke up with
03:17:43*ball finds it disturbing that "pies" is a subset of "herpies"
03:17:52xenocide21lol
03:17:55ball...but not herpes, which I think is how it's spelled
03:18:06xenocide21whatever
03:18:15krazykit`ball, rockbox IS the os
03:18:24xenocide21woah wait
03:18:26ballAnyway, thanks Rockbox people, for all your good work.
03:18:35xenocide21i thought rockbox was only compatable with ipods with disk drives?
03:18:53krazykit`the front page lists the various targets rockbox runs on
03:18:56xenocide21my nano has flash memory...
03:19:23ballI should check whether it works with the new Classics, which appeal to me.
03:19:33krazykit`it doesn't.
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03:19:38ballI think those lack Firewire, but if Rockbox worked I'd be willing to overlook that.
03:19:42xenocide21those are 5g and 6g ipods, so they dont
03:19:47ballAh, scratch that idea then.
03:19:54krazykit`the 5g is the ipod video, which IS supported
03:20:00xenocide21oh?
03:20:05xenocide21i herd it wasnt
03:20:10krazykit`you heard wrong
03:20:14xenocide21i guess so
03:20:20 Quit grndslm (Remote closed the connection)
03:20:32xenocide21i know 2g nano isnt, why not?
03:20:53krazykit`there's a good amount of code in svn now for the 2g nano now, actually
03:21:17krazykit`but the problem was no way to run 3rd party code and no information on the undocumented internal hardware
03:21:49xenocide21the 2g isnt much different than the 1g
03:21:57xenocide21mostly the same hardware
03:22:03krazykit`no, not really at all.
03:22:21krazykit`the 1g and 2g ipods are, but you can't say the same about the nano
03:22:29xenocide21uhm
03:22:32xenocide21i can too
03:22:40xenocide21because i just read specs on both
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03:23:16xenocide21both nano 1g and 2g have same cpu, identical ram, different sizes, same color bit rate, the nano 2g has a little bigger screen however
03:23:33 Join dmb [0] (n=Dmb@unaffiliated/dmb)
03:23:44krazykit`that doesn't mean the chipsets are the same
03:23:54xenocide21oh and the nano 2G has an 8mb rom
03:24:09xenocide211g only has a 4MB rom
03:24:40 Quit Sajber^ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
03:24:51krazykit`the 1st gen nano, 1-5gen ipods, the ipod mini 1g, some sansas, and a couple other players use the portaplayer chipset
03:24:57krazykit`the nano 2g uses a samsung one
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03:25:22xenocide21yeah i noticed that
03:25:56JdGordon|the mini 2g also uses PP
03:25:58xenocide21i wonder why the site even mentions the shuffle -_-
03:26:32ballI wonder if we'll ever find the shuffle I bought my wife
03:27:53ballIs the 80 Gbyte the last iPod video to support Rockbox?
03:27:57ball(so far ;-)
03:30:01xenocide21i think apple fucked up on the 1g shuffle
03:30:08xenocide21they could have had a lil LCD display on it
03:30:25 Join Tomis [0] (n=Tomis@70.134.70.237)
03:31:26xenocide21anyway
03:31:59xenocide21i dont see how its so hard to support the 2g seeing as rockbox dev's built it based on reverse engineering, simple enough to reverse engineer an ipod
03:32:04xenocide212g nano*
03:32:05xenocide21*
03:32:24krazykit`"support" means that it works quite well, among other qualifiers
03:32:35xenocide21indeed
03:32:37krazykit`that's not the case, as a few parts are missing and a few unstable
03:32:51xenocide21are you a dev?
03:32:57xenocide21for rockbox :P
03:33:04krazykit`no, but i spend far too much time in here apparently
03:33:09xenocide21lol
03:33:19ball"simple enough" == volunteering?
03:33:21xenocide21i was gonna tell you to get your arse to work! lol
03:34:16xenocide21In addition to redesigning the iPod nano itself, Apple made the packaging 52% smaller which reduced the amount of fossil fuels used during distribution. However, the packaging was no longer cardboard, but some kind of acrylic which is not recyclable
03:34:26xenocide21-_- wtf is the point of that?
03:35:09krazykit`perhaps you should refresh yourself on the rules and what's on and off topic?
03:35:32xenocide21perhaps you should shut your pie hole, because i dont see a discussion going on thats on topic
03:35:46xenocide21im not intruding on anyones valuable time
03:36:14Tomisyo ops just kickban this kid, he was doing this earlier today
03:36:28xenocide21kid? im 20 as of yesterday thanks
03:36:34 Join Stroller [0] (n=Stroller@213-152-39-89.dsl.eclipse.net.uk)
03:36:37ballDid someone say "pie"?
03:36:41Mode"#rockbox +o JdGordon " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
03:36:43ballhello Stroller
03:36:45xenocide21PIE IS AWESOME
03:36:47xenocide21lol
03:36:47Mode"#rockbox +o Unhelpful " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
03:36:55JdGordon|xenocide21: this is not a social channel.. shuttup or get kicked
03:37:30 Join FOAD_ [0] (n=dok@dinah.blub.net)
03:37:33xenocide21Yes sir! *salutes*
03:37:37Mode"#rockbox +b %xenocide*!*Xenocide@*.bresnan.net " by Unhelpful (n=quassel@rockbox/developer/Unhelpful)
03:37:37WarnBanlist contains 19 bans!
03:37:39Mode"#rockbox -o JdGordon " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
03:37:45JdGordon|hehe
03:37:48Unhelpfulor we can just mute :)
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03:41:03StrollerHey, ball. :D
03:41:09StrollerHey, everyone
03:56:06ballI'll probably be back a bit later. I'm rebooting and recabling.
03:56:09 Quit ball ("leaving")
04:00
04:05:43***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
04:08:58 Quit JdGordon| ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
04:28:38Mode"#rockbox -b %xenocide*!*Xenocide@*.bresnan.net " by Unhelpful (n=quassel@rockbox/developer/Unhelpful)
04:28:46Mode"#rockbox -o Unhelpful " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
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05:09:16sduboiscan anyone recommend a player that is not an ipod?
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05:27:16gibbon_hi there
05:27:51Stroller:)
05:28:06gibbon_there was an issue with one of my build hosts, rockhost2.jjim.de-gibbon_, ... I just resolved it
05:28:28Strollersdubois: I can't, but out of curiosity, why not an ipod?
05:28:31gibbon_whom do I ask to reenable it?
05:29:22 Quit togetic ("WeeChat 0.3.0")
05:30:15gibbon_i am very sorry, but there was an error in the virtual machine configuration
05:32:38CIA-6New commit by 03mc2739 (r24018): Unblock rockhost2.jjim.de-gibbon_ - problem resolved
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05:33:08mc2739gibbon_: done
05:33:39gibbon_mc2739: thank you very much.
05:34:19gibbon_the client sais it is still locked, but i guess, this will change on its own soon?
05:36:00sduboisStroller: I use an ipod now and I'd like to try something new
05:36:28Strollerok, ty
05:36:37mc2739gibbon_: yes, the should update itself shortly
05:36:59mc2739add a "sever" where appropriate
05:37:17mc2739server even
05:38:15gibbon_;)
05:39:40gibbon_i have a little bit of a bad feeling about restarting the build client every X seconds.. is there some "grace period" for running the buildclient against the server? is 60s ok?
05:40:54mc2739that should be fine
05:41:02gibbon_ok, thanks then
05:42:01sduboisis there any work being done on the iriver E100?
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06:47:56arcticfangHey guys. I'm wanting to get into rockbox development... is there any kind of SDK or any files that I will need to start off?
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07:32:25CIA-6New commit by 03FlynDice (r24019): Sansa AMS: Use small write delay for all non-HS cards including the internal SD to prevent data corruption. ...
07:56:46CIA-6New commit by 03FlynDice (r24020): Sansa AMS: Make write delay work for non-MULTIDRIVE.
07:58:10topikmeh, just compiled r24018 and then you start fixing things again :)
07:59:14FlynDicesilly me.. ;-)
07:59:47FlynDicehave you read the forum posts about corruption problems?
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08:02:47FlynDiceall green , bedtime for me!
08:05:48***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
08:06:02topiki have yes
08:06:05topikthat's why i want to try it
08:06:10topikhaven't had them myself yet though
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08:59:08JdGordonso do we really not want to close old bugs which wont ever be fixed?
08:59:10JdGordon5930 for example
08:59:27JdGordon5877 also
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09:02:32Llorean"Won't ever be" in what way?
09:03:41JdGordonin the "going by past experience, and in all likelyhood" way
09:04:00LloreanThen no, if they're something we want fixed still they should stay open.
09:04:20LloreanIf they're something that we intentionally won't fix even if someone comes up with a good fix patch, then they should probably be closed.
09:04:31 Part Stroller
09:04:37JdGordonif the people that really wanted them fixed, wanted them fixed, then they'd be fixed already
09:04:43LloreanBut it's kinda silly to close them if they're really a bug, just because nobody has the time. It's misleading. "We're not going to track this because we just don't care."
09:04:50LloreanJdGordon: So why close them?
09:05:10JdGordonto make the bugs which actually have a chance of being fixed more visible
09:05:22GodEaterhuh?
09:06:59LloreanDoesn't closing them just mislead people, and make it more likely duplicates will be filed?
09:07:16GodEateryes
09:07:18DogBoyGodEater, you were saying you added that patch to svn?
09:07:21JdGordonif they were big issues there would be duplicates anyway
09:07:26LloreanNot to mention, new people looking for things to fix aren't going to search *closed* tasks.
09:07:28GodEaterDogBoy: no I didn't say that
09:07:47GodEaterI said I resync'd it so that it would apply to current svn - the patch as it was yesterday would have failed to apply.
09:08:33DogBoyah
09:10:22GodEaterthere's not been enough feedback from other devs about whether or not it should be commited
09:10:43*JdGordon thinks the tracker state is fairly pointless
09:10:44GodEaterunlike some people, I wait for approval ;)
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09:11:06JdGordonprobably half the of the bugs can be closed as no repro or fixed or "stop being stupid"
09:11:20GodEaterJdGordon: maybe in your world
09:11:42*JdGordon wonders which of us doesnt live in the real world then
09:11:52JdGordonyou think fixed and no repro bugs should stay open?
09:12:31GodEaterif you care to go through and confirm all these "fixed" bugs, by all means close them.
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09:17:05JdGordonanyone use bookmarks?
09:18:42CIA-6New commit by 03jdgordon (r24021): Fix FS #9198 - make the delete bookmark option confirm the action
09:19:17topikthat's a nice fix
09:19:27topikit was very easy to accidentally remove bookmarks
09:19:35JdGordontest it!
09:19:41topiksure
09:19:50JdGordon:)
09:23:36topikif i keep testing things i really need to murder the 'updating database' thing on my fuze
09:23:43topikin the OF that is
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09:27:02topikJdGordon: it will always ask to delete /.rockbox/most-recent.bmark ?
09:27:15JdGordonno idea :)
09:27:21JdGordoni tihnk from the menu..
09:27:29topikok, same line without question mark
09:28:02pondlifeHey, anyone note the missing images for Archos FM Recorder/Recorder v2 on http://www.rockbox.org/manual.shtml ?
09:28:17pondlifehttp://build.rockbox.org/ has images...
09:28:32topikJdGordon: that file contains ALL bookmarks. i really don't want to delete the entire file, just the selected line in it
09:29:33topikah, the behaviour is right
09:29:38topikonly the selected line gets deleted
09:29:41topikthe prompt text is wrong
09:29:54JdGordonwrong how?
09:30:28topiklike i wrote, the prompt is 'Delete? /.rockbox/most-recent.bmark'
09:30:42topikbut that's not what happens. the selected line FROM that file gets deleted, not the file itself
09:32:27JdGordongrrr :/
09:33:22topikif you can have it prompt the name of the bookmark line, it is perfecter
09:33:38JdGordonthe number is about as good as it can be
09:33:39AlexPpondlife: Yes, tomers broke it earlier
09:33:40topikor make it 'Delete the selected bookmark?' without using the filename
09:33:44JdGordonfile: line
09:33:56JdGordonI didnt want to add a new lang string
09:34:04AlexPpondlife: See what bluebrother was saying at 23:00 last night
09:34:06topikjust 'Delete?' ?
09:34:16topikthe filename is meaningless, the functionality is useful
09:34:25JdGordonok, ill remove the second line
09:34:34AlexPJdGordon: I use bookmarks, but if you would like testing I can't until tonight (and it is 09:30 now)
09:34:55JdGordonits OK, not really important, and topik beat you to it :)
09:35:06JdGordon"fixing bugs" entirely blind is called living on the edge!
09:35:12AlexPhehe, cool :)
09:36:48CIA-6New commit by 03jdgordon (r24022): Fix FS #10289 - screens showing a list need to check the show_icons setting before setting the callback. the List will now always draw icons if a ...
09:38:29CIA-6New commit by 03jdgordon (r24023): get rid of the filename in the delete bookmark confirmation as its not really helpful
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09:41:31JdGordon... case in point.... amiconn you're the only one with a ipod 1G/2G yeah? had a look at FS #10089?
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09:42:49pondlifeAlexP: No worries, just thought it might not have been noticed.
09:45:33*Llorean actually really enjoyed being able to quickly delete many bookmarks.
09:47:18topikperhaps it should be an option to prompt
09:47:36GodEaternot another option :(
09:47:43LloreanAs long as double-tapping the delete button results in a delete, it should be okay
09:47:54LloreanThen you can still clear several by repeatedly pressing the same button, it just takes twice as many buttons
09:48:01LloreanBut if I have to rock between two buttons now, I think that's pretty bad.
09:48:11JdGordondepends on the target
09:48:16LloreanSo... bad.
09:48:29LloreanWhy was this needed?
09:48:57JdGordondo you have some massive aversion to change or something?
09:49:18LloreanI think I explained rather clearly why I liked the old way.
09:49:45JdGordonso? it wasnt consistant with every other delete option in the UI
09:50:03Llorean"consistent" and, so?
09:50:15LloreanIt's also the only single-button delete anywhere in the UI, rather than requiring a context menu, isn't it?
09:50:41GodEateranyone got a comment on #10831? I'm pretty sure the manual is at fault here.
09:50:41JdGordonall the more reason why it SHOULD have the confirmation
09:50:58LloreanAh yes. "it was originally set up to be quick, so let's intentionally slow it down"
09:52:04JdGordonanyone understand 10551? I dont understand which playlist options he's talking about
09:52:09pondlifeI've occasionally wished for no confirmatiion prompt when deleting files, I thought the ultimata solution would be multi-select there though...
09:52:35topikLlorean: it's the same button on my Fuze
09:52:41topikso fairly quick
09:52:46Lloreanpondlife: It would be.
09:52:49topikno, wrong. different button, not quick
09:53:02topikfirst 'home' to delete, then 'select' to confirm
09:53:32Lloreanpondlife: It'd be good for bookmarks too, but I don't like that we're taking away the ability to quickly delete bookmarks now, without a solution for it.
09:54:11GodEaterI think consistency is a good thing. Either we prompt for confirmation on all delete actions, or we don't.
09:54:53topiki like this particular prompt. have accidentally deleted bookmarks in my audiobooks with no clue where i last was
09:55:02pondlifeGodEater: I agree
09:55:06LloreanGodEater: Within the bookmark manager a lot of things are different anyway.
09:55:15GodEaterLlorean: and I don't think that's a good thing
09:55:28LloreanI don't see what's wrong with it. Different screens have different controls.
09:55:44GodEateryou don't see what's wrong with it because you're used to it
09:55:57*pondlife wishes bookrmarks were just files (shortcuts to a playlist/position/offset)
09:55:57GodEaterit is inconsistent, and this is a bad thing
09:56:14LloreanGodEater: Inconsistent with *what*?
09:56:26GodEaterthe way we do deletes elsewhere
09:56:35LloreanDeletes of files, sure
09:56:38LloreanBut it's not deleting files.
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09:56:49GodEaterso?
09:57:05LloreanThe screen's not even the same sort of list.
09:57:29GodEaterit's still deleting *something*
09:57:30*JdGordon wonders why now it suits Llorean to ignore his usual consistancy and simplicity and "dont let the user shoot himself in the foot" argument
09:57:59LloreanGodEater: So is starting a new playlist, yet we don't require a confrim on that at all times.
09:58:05LloreanIt's deleting the in-ram one. It's an option there.
09:58:23GodEaterso more inconsistency
09:58:26GodEaterwhich we should try to remove
09:58:44GodEaterwe'd even save a setting
09:59:17LloreanJdGordon: Well, first off "consistency" requires something to be consistent *with*. There's not a good parallel case. Simplicity - single button deletes for something like this *is* simpler. And "don't let the user..." is something I argue both side of pretty regularly.
09:59:40LloreanGodEater: So starting playback will require a prompt every single time in the future in your desired world?
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10:00:38LloreanPeople hated the "are you sure you want to do that?" style prompts of Vista, but you're basically proposing increasing the amount of "did you really mean thats" in things people aren't even generally reporting problems with.
10:01:46LloreanAnd, as I said, specifically engineering away the ability to use existing features how we did before. There's now no way to quickly clear out most of a list of bookmarks.
10:02:27JdGordonyou mean.... change is bad...
10:02:41LloreanJdGordon: Bad changes *are* bad, yes.
10:02:50topiki like this change. there are as many arguments to make for it as against it
10:02:53LloreanChange isn't automatically good.
10:02:55JdGordonall changes are bad
10:03:14LloreanJdGordon: Changes that make the software harder to use can be quite bad, yes.
10:03:37JdGordonwhich in your view (or my view of your view going by 4 years of arguing) is that all change is bad
10:03:50LloreanWe've got several features that result in lists in which there are many, often outdated, bookmarks.
10:04:02LloreanThe UI specifically had single-button removals which allowed them to be easily maintained
10:04:09LloreanNow you've doubled the work necessary, at a minimum.
10:04:20JdGordonthats entirely a probem of the bookmark system
10:04:26LloreanJdGordon: Are you really saying at this point I've never been in favour of a change, ever?
10:04:27JdGordonnothing to do with how it handles deletes
10:04:33LloreanOr that I'm just not allowed to have an opinion if it doesn't favour change?
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10:05:04JdGordonI reckon I could count on one finger the amount of changes you havnt whinged about
10:05:26GodEaterwhy do you two have to make things personal? *sigh*
10:05:43JdGordonhe started it!
10:05:44LloreanGodEater: He's the one making it personal. I'd rather go back to discussing the actual feature.
10:05:46JdGordon:)
10:05:49GodEaterwrt to prompting every time you start playback - No. I don't think that.
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10:05:57LloreanJdGordon: Ah yes, the "and once again llorean with Change is bad!" was me starting it?
10:05:59GodEatermainly because it's easy to recreate the playlist
10:06:14GodEaterit's NOT easy to recreate a bookmark if you've deleted the wrong one.
10:06:31LloreanGodEater: So maybe we make the recent bookmarks list easy to delete (because the bookmark files aren't changed or removed) but keep the prompt in the bookmark files?
10:06:42LloreanSo you can't lose permanent bookmarks, but can quickly maintain the often cluttered list.
10:06:58GodEaterthat might be a good compromise
10:07:07LloreanOr maybe allow a way to cancel deletes such as not writing the bookmark file *after* changes without a confirmation
10:07:11GodEaterbut I'm the wrong person to ask on account of not using them very much
10:07:14LloreanSo that instead of confirming on every delete, confirm on leaving the bookmark screen
10:07:25GodEaterthat's a good idea
10:07:48LloreanWell, I've been trying to think of ways to address both sides' problems, rather than just throwing blame around like some people like to accuse me of.
10:08:01GodEaterit's past his bedtime
10:08:03GodEaterhe's cranky
10:08:03LloreanWhich is why I started with "how is this better" to try to understand what problem it's trying to address specifically.
10:08:04JdGordongreat.. so go implement it
10:08:27LloreanJdGordon: How about I just revert your change until you implement one that doesn't reduce existing usability?
10:08:49LloreanSince that meets my needs, and you're welcome to implement a solution that doesn't screw over existing users later.
10:08:54GodEateryour bandaid approach to reducing the number of open bugs isn't really working Jd.
10:09:18JdGordonits not a bandaid aproach at all...
10:09:37JdGordonthe fact is the bug was fixed... the bookmark ui and code sucks.. feel free to work on it
10:09:47JdGordonuntill then, consistancy is king
10:10:55LloreanConsistency is just a buzzword so that you can pick any other thing and say "I'm making it like that"
10:11:36LloreanYou planning on making the bookmark list show one-line bookmarks, and resume playback with a press of play too, or is that not part of your "consistency" at this time?
10:13:00*JdGordon honestly has no idea what Llorean is talking about
10:13:19LloreanJdGordon: The bookmark list is inconsistent with basically every other list in Rockbox as it stands.
10:13:29JdGordonyes it is
10:13:30JdGordongo fix it
10:13:34LloreanYou've removed usability in the name of consistency, so are you interested in actually making it consistent?
10:13:56LloreanYou're the one saying "consistency is king", so do you actually care about it, or is it just an excuse?
10:14:39JdGordonthere are those of us that actually contribute... and those that just talk... I'm the former... http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=18130.0
10:15:09JdGordonshould I search the tracker also?
10:15:37JdGordoncrikey! http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9407
10:16:00LloreanDoes that make them single line, and change the keymap to be consistent with the rest of Rockbox then?
10:16:59LloreanOr is this a case of "oh look, here's a patch that doesn't do what you said in answer to your question, plus vague statements about how you haven't contributed anything ever"
10:18:25JdGordonconsidering its a total rewrite of the entire bookmark system, i'd say there's a fairly good chance that I just might be using the standard list API's and such
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10:18:58LloreanJdGordon: It's a yes/no question. Why not just explicitly say your answer?
10:19:17LloreanThe standard list API doesn't mean the keymap is the same.
10:19:25JdGordonbecayuse its past 1am and i really dont care enough to look at the diff
10:19:34JdGordonactually.. it does
10:19:54LloreanThe plugin lists don't allow you to resume playback from them.
10:20:47JdGordonfucking hell... this would be easier without me...
10:20:51*JdGordon -> zzzz
10:21:01LloreanSo it's pretty clear that exceptions are at least possible. I suppose that would increase consistency - pressing play in plugins causing the plugin to exit and return to the WPS.
10:21:10LloreanOr at least in plugin lists.
10:22:30pixelmapressing play from within plugins?
10:24:23Lloreanpixelma: Within their normal menu list, pressing play could exit the plugin and go to the WPS so that it mimics normal list behaviour in Rockbox.
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10:26:30pixelmaah, you mean in their menus
10:26:37LloreanYeah, sorry.
10:26:39LloreanWasn't quite clear.
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11:09:40GodEateris anyone keen on commiting the pause between tracks patch?
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11:45:20jaeDatabase Export Modifications is only done manually, right?
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12:00:48fmlGodEater: if the "pause after each track" and "party mode" settings are mutually exclusive I'd prefer to have them as possible values of _one_ setting
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12:10:52*gevaerts disagrees. Party mode is mutually exclusive with dozens of settings...
12:14:58GodEaterI've just realised it's not ready for commit anyway - it won't compile on HWCODEC
12:15:21gevaertsthat's different :)
12:15:27GodEateryeah =/
12:16:02*GodEater will have to look at it later. Documentation to write :(
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12:17:13AlexPI don't see how they can be combined, the settings are too disparate
12:17:43AlexPI think we just put in the manual under party mode "Enabling party mode will override the following settings: x y z"
12:18:14AlexPAnd under the settings in question "This setting will not take effect when party mode is enabled"
12:18:18AlexPOr something similar
12:18:36AlexPGodEater: And you can commit it when ready :)
12:21:03LloreanAlexP: I don't know that they're that disparate. They're both sort of simply the "playback mode" - one is interruption-less the other has guaranteed interruptions.
12:21:36AlexPIf you can come up with a nice way of describing the functions of both in a setting length name, then I'm all ears
12:22:30gevaerts"Skip length" is also mutually exclusive with party mode. You can still set it...
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12:23:44LloreanPlayback Mode - "Normal", "Party", and "Managed" or something. "Party mode" isn't particularly descriptive anyway, but if they're consolidated they can all simply be described in one place (including what other settings they don't work with) in the manual.
12:24:07LloreanSomeone described it as a "DJ mode" though I'm not sure I'd agree with that name.
12:24:12LloreanPerhaps "SFX Mode"
12:28:33pondlifeParty mode -> Jukebox mode?
12:28:44LloreanPerhaps.
12:29:00pondlifeCertainly not DJ mode
12:29:17GodEater"DJ Mode" is that suggested name for "pause between tracks"
12:29:20GodEaternot party mode
12:29:38pondlifeI don't think a DJ wants pausing..
12:29:40LloreanYeah, sorry, was unclear on that. I don't know that I agree with it, but the person was actually requesting "pause between tracks" by calling it a DJ mode.
12:29:56GodEaterpondlife: you don't? A Radio DJ would pause after each song
12:29:58pondlifeI guess if you're using 2 DAPs...
12:29:58jaeIs "database_changelog.txt" documented somewhere?
12:30:06LloreanHis logic was that he was to be hosting an event where breaks between songs was wanted and he wanted to be able to queue songs and just press a button for the next one.
12:30:11gevaerts"Playback mode A", "Playback mode B", and "Playback mode C"
12:30:26GodEaterJukebox mode is no better name for party mode either in my opinion
12:30:29pondlifeI don't think Party mode and pause between tracks should be combined
12:30:31GodEaterneither are terribly descriptive
12:30:35LloreanMaybe just something like "Normal", "Continuous" (Party now), and "Singles" (Pause)
12:30:48LloreanOr "Single" perhaps.
12:31:10GodEater"Normal", "Uninterruptable", "Single Track"
12:31:17LloreanSomething like that, yes.
12:32:06pondlifeParty mode should not prevent pause at track end (normally, you wouldn't enable both but I can't see why not). I assume that Party mode allows paused playback to be resumed, of course!
12:32:21LloreanParty Mode doesn't allow playback to be paused.
12:32:31LloreanWhy should it allow Rockbox to pause if it doesn't allow the user to pause?
12:32:46pondlifeParty mode should be a restructed UI thing, only.
12:32:54pondlifeNot an anti-pause measure.
12:33:08*GodEater doesn't agree
12:33:09LloreanIsn't it explicitly an anti-playback-interruption feature?
12:33:14GodEateryes
12:33:19pondlifeNo, it's a jukebox mode
12:33:28GodEaternot it's not
12:33:28LloreanIt limits the UI to prevent playback interruption. It doesn't limit the UI with a happy side effect of preventing playback interruption
12:33:32Zagorpondlife: party mode disables everything that might interrupt the music
12:33:32GodEaterwhich is why it's not called that
12:33:43pondlifeAh, I misunderstood then
12:34:15GodEaterand since it does that, it makes no sense to let rockbox pause the music when the user is then unable to restart the music
12:34:20pondlifeStill seems better that it should be a UI level restriction to me.
12:34:27pondlifeUnable to restart?
12:34:36pondlifeThat would be silly
12:34:37GodEateryou'd have to take the DAP out of party mode to do it
12:34:40pondlifeWhy?
12:34:49GodEaterbecause pause/unpause is disabled
12:34:50pondlifeDoes party mode prevent resume - it shouldn't
12:34:56pondlifeOnly pause
12:35:02LloreanDoesn't it also prevent things like starting a new playlist (instead only letting you queue/insert)?
12:35:07GodEateryep
12:35:22pondlifeYes - which is why I thought it was a jukebox
12:35:30GodEaterbut if it prevents you pausing, why on earth would it NEED to allow resuming?
12:35:36GodEaterit makes no sense
12:36:13LloreanGodEater: It does allow resume from stop, doesn't it?
12:36:14pondlifeBecause you have configured it tro pause between trackss, but don't want interruptionduring tracks. Think a kids party maybe
12:36:16GodEaterthe whole point of party mode is the music doesn't stop
12:37:25*GodEater thinks we're trying to invent too many use cases
12:38:06pondlifeNo, I just don't see any need to make one setting override another whent they could be independent (both simpler and more flexible).
12:38:40pondlifeAnywqy, I have to work, but that's my opinion reigistered
12:38:44GodEaterbut the whole point of party mode is it overrides stuff
12:39:06pondlifeIt should be a *UI* override
12:39:20pondlifeThe point is to stop people doing unwanted things
12:39:47GodEaterit's been in the code how long now? Why hasn't someone else re-written it that way?
12:40:08pondlifeBecause it's a bit of a mess? I don't know...
12:40:17LloreanI thought the idea was more to prevent *accidental* unwanted things?
12:40:31LloreanYou set "Party Mode" on and you know that the music won't stop unless you turn it off or you run out of queued tracks.
12:40:45GodEatermy point is that we've gone from adding a new patch, to now talking about a massive re-write
12:41:04*gevaerts thinks that people should be welcome to extend settings, but talk of an idealised world should not stop working patches from getting committed
12:41:07pondlifeNo, just how the pause-at-track-end interracts
12:41:08GodEaterif a massive re-write is what is wanted, then I haven't the time or inclination to do it
12:41:29pondlifeNo rewrite needed, just a clear understanding of what a setting does
12:41:56pondlifeI don't see any good reason to make 2 independent features dependent, that's all.
12:42:33pondlifeIf I want uninterrupted playback, I wouldn't enable pause-at-track-end.
12:42:38GodEaterI don't see them as independent
12:42:46Lloreanpondlife: Should the manual then explain that "Party mode prevents playback from being stopped, except when you've set other settings that may stop, pause, or alter playback?" rather than just saying clearly that playback won't pause, stop, or be interrupted while it's enabled?
12:44:03pondlifeLlorean: It should probably just say that party mode restricts operation to prevent people interrupting playback
12:44:11*Llorean thinks that party mode should override everything, rather than requiring that everything be set explicitly to allow party mode.
12:44:19LloreanThe point of it was a single thing you could turn on to know it's going to keep playing.
12:44:42pondlifeDoes party mode change the select action into a queue?
12:44:53pondlifei.e. select a file, it gets queued
12:44:58LloreanI think it gets inserted.
12:45:21pondlifeOK, but not interrupting the current track
12:45:41LloreanNo.
12:45:45pondlifeOK
12:46:18pondlifeSimilar to my use case, but I'm thinking of it as a jukebox
12:46:30pondlifeProbably not the same, so ignore me
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12:53:38CIA-6New commit by 03teru (r24024): sudoku: fix FS #7772: Sudoku: "Solve" Crash.
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12:57:38notlisteninghi is there an abvious reason why i am getting lotS OF WARNING DURING CMPLIATION EG warning: pointer targets in initialization differ in signedness
12:57:48Bagderprobably because configure didn't find your compiler when you ran it
12:57:57Bagderso it hasn't done its compiler option magic
12:58:17notlisteningoh ok
12:59:17GodEaterwhen compiling for HWCODEC, which files need to be included to get DEBUGF(), access to global_settings, and audio_pause() ? Anyone know?
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13:02:22notlisteningSorted thanks for the pointer badger
13:03:21notlisteningoppp typo Bagder
13:03:40Bagder:-)
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13:05:20GodEatermake
13:05:24GodEateroops, wrong window ;)
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13:32:55amiconnJdGordon: Known limitation..
13:34:22amiconnThe G1, G2, G3 and mini G1 wheels don't have a means to check whether they're touched or not. On the later iPods we use this to decide whether to send button_repeat events
13:34:54amiconnSo on the mentioned ipods, the wheel always sends non-repeat events, meaning that the list wrap protection won't engage
13:35:31amiconnAnd I'm not the only one having such an ipod.
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13:39:23GodEaterokay, the patch compiles for HWCODEC now, but I've no such target to test it on.
13:39:27*GodEater goes to lunch
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14:27:09fmlThe key descriptions in the manual use the "do something" form in some places and "does something" form in other places. Do we want to unify this?
14:29:06pixelmaamiconn: maybe comment on the mentioned task then (FS #10089) and perhaps close it?
14:30:38pixelmafml: I'd be all for unifying (there are also other things I've seen where you can tell that different people worked on the manual which could be unified some day too)
14:33:04GodEaterpixelma: would you mind trying the latest iteration of the pause between tracks patch on your ondio please?
14:33:45CIA-6New commit by 03teru (r24025): update rockpaint and blackjack manual.
14:36:31pixelmaGodEater: maybe in the evening, I'm currently at work (actually ;) )
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14:36:46GodEaterpixelma: that's fine ;)
14:37:24fmlpixelma: what would you prefer? "Do" or "does"?
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14:38:15cethephhi
14:38:23cethephI have a problem with a nano 2G
14:38:29cethephcan someone help me?
14:38:52cethephrockbox seems to have an issue with accessing files on the ipod
14:40:12cethephwhen i try to navigate through the directories, these directories refuse to open
14:40:54fmlcetheph: this is most probably a problem with your file system. Check it using some appropriate tool.
14:41:41gevaertshm, on nano 2g, I'd guess an FTL issue...
14:41:49GodEaterme too
14:42:09gevaertscetheph: this won't help you much, but this sort of issue is one of the main reasons it's still considered unstable
14:42:40cethephIndeed
14:43:52cethephbut it's weird, because it has worked once, and rockbox reach sometimes to open the directories, or read files
14:44:05cetheph(*reaches)
14:45:47fmlpixelma: if we unify this we should also put it into the manual guideline for the future. Which form would a native English speaker prefer (this is to all)?
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14:47:05GodEaterfml: can you cite a specific example from the manual? I'm not keen to re-read the whole thing to find them
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14:50:04fmlGodEater: for example, the table with the keys for the FM radio: "Left, Right: change frequency ...", "Stop: stops the radio..."
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14:50:45GodEaterokay, I'd go with the "does this", rather than "do this" approach.
14:50:50fmlGodEater: this seems more natural to me too
14:58:27topikcould be the depth of directories being an issue
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15:06:12WillyAbout this bug: "If start screen is set to RESUME PLAYBACK, and you power-on by USB, then the computer does not detect the device". Is it safe to charge the player in this state?
15:07:30gevaertsWilly: it's definitely not dangerous, but I can't tell you for sure if it will actually charge properly. Trying it should tell you that though
15:08:07WillyOK will do. Thank you.
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15:23:15CIA-6New commit by 03mcuelenaere (r24026): Add stopwatch plugin replacement for touchscreen targets
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16:05:59***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:08:49mc2739Interesting, I just tested usb insert with start screen set to resume playback it it correctly went into usb mode
16:09:21mc2739this was on e200
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16:24:52n1sme wonders why noone reads the comment at the top of features.txt before going ahead and breaking the voice file compatibility
16:25:11n1sor if they read it, why it's ignored
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16:26:11notlisteninghave there been any report of problems in the ams sansa E2xx's I am getting a panic each time i try to access the file system
16:27:16FlynDicenotlistening: unfortunately yes, what's the error message and what revision
16:27:56WillyIn case anyone was wondering... Charging _works_ when you power-on by USB, while START SCREEN is set to RESUME PLAYBACK. :)
16:29:26Willynotlistening: mine is a PP - that means it's not AMS - right?
16:29:55FlynDiceWilly: That's correct
16:30:20*n1s also wonders why some people always adds things to the end of that *alphabetically* sorted file
16:30:24notlisteningPanic - Dir entry 2 in sector 4 is not free 8E 3B 8E 3B and revision
16:30:37notlisteningand the revision was this mornings
16:30:53gevaertsnotlistening: that looks like a FAT problem
16:31:29notlisteningRevision: 24023
16:31:52notlisteningright let me do a quick FS scan
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16:57:10CIA-6New commit by 03tomers (r24027): vumeter: Remove unused defines
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16:57:55CIA-6New commit by 03tomers (r24028): Manual: Some more Cowon D2 keymaps
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17:04:44notlisteningFlynDice_, right have correct the issue i have with the FS and still i am getting the roblem i guess it might be what you were working on but it seems to betting more and more corrupt
17:07:49CIA-6New commit by 03tomers (r24029): FS #10858 - Use the 'does' form everywhere in key descriptions ...
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17:33:25AlexPtomers: Did you see you broke a lot of the images in the manual?
17:33:35AlexPtomers: See bluebrother in the logs from 23:00 yesterday
17:34:57tomersAlexP: Ok. Now I have to go. Be back in couple of hours..
17:36:14n1stomers: your change to features.txt also broke back compatibility with voice files on some targets
17:36:30n1sin r 24005
17:36:41AlexPtomers: It'd be really useful if you could be in IRC as you commit things - see for example this manual commit, the features.txt commit, the most recent one that pixelma tried asking you a question about...
17:39:27CIA-6New commit by 03nls (r24030): Remove unneeded instruction from the coldfire ffs function and fix a wrong comment
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17:40:16n1sheh, this ffs change actually has a measurable effect in test_codec :)
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17:41:18CIA-6New commit by 03alex (r24031): Shutdowns isn't a word.
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17:41:27Horschtiyes it is
17:41:35Horschtii shutdowns my computer all the time!
17:41:50AlexPHmmm :)
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18:00
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18:11:50bluebrothertomers: I have to say that I'm *quite* annoyed by that breakage of yesterday. Changing macros is something that needs careful attention. The \specimg macro is used in the screenshot macro, so that change has effect on *all* usages of the latter.
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18:22:08CIA-6New commit by 03bluebrother (r24032): Set missing svn:mime-type property on screenshots.
18:22:10AlexPbluebrother: Did you decide what to do?
18:22:49bluebrotherAlexP: well, I wanted to fix that commit by committing the missing stuff. Unfortunately I've hit that missing mime-types which breaks diffing my local changes
18:23:13bluebrotherat least, if we do it we should do it consequently. I.e. gigabeatf -> gigabeatfx as in the platform file and so on
18:23:32AlexPyes, it should be everywhere or not at all
18:23:42AlexPNot half and half with the result that everything is wrong
18:24:31bluebrotherunfortunately this means my tree is now full of conflicts. Hopefully I can get this fixed soon enough before I have to leave tonight.
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18:41:47fmlAlexP: hello. Didn't want to use the does form?
18:42:00AlexPfml: Shutdown isn't a verb
18:42:16AlexPfml: "Shutdowns" as a verb doesn't exist
18:42:21fmlAlexP.waht about "shuts down"?
18:42:33AlexPcould do
18:42:46AlexPI don't like it much, but I suppose for consistency
18:42:48fmlAlexP: yes, I did the changes in a semi automatic mode :-)
18:43:19fmlAlexP: i.e. only my fingers worked, not the brain :-)
18:43:29AlexPhehe :)
18:44:13AlexPShuts down is OK if you prefer it
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18:44:38*bluebrother goes batch building all manuals for a first test
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18:45:07AlexPI don't really mind :)
18:46:35fmlAlexP: ...which the question: what is shut down? Rockbox or the player?
18:46:52fml*insert "poses"
18:47:15AlexPor both :)
18:47:56bluebrotherhmm, how can I instruct svn to display renames? I.e. something like "added foo, copied from bar"?
18:48:14fmlBut seriously: I'd prefer "shuts down the \dap" But I'm not sure whether this would be correct for all platforms. E.g. ipods?
18:48:42Zabaipods can't shut down?
18:48:56gevaertsfml: it will turn off all players, except for the early ipods, but I don't think that's a reason to change the logic
18:49:11AlexPI think just shuts down Rockbox is fone
18:49:14AlexPer, fine
18:49:15gevaertsZaba: early ipods can only suspend
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18:49:19ZabaI see
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18:50:26gevaertsI think the first and second gen
18:50:50fmlAlexP: could you please change that to "does"? That was the point of the patch. Plugins and other places in the manual still pending.
18:50:59AlexPdoes?
18:51:07linuxstbbluebrother: Regarding tomers's commit - do I understand correctly that the manuals still build OK, but in cases where there are target (not resolution) specific screenshots, the generic screenshot will now be used?
18:51:18bluebrotherlinuxstb: yes.
18:51:45bluebrotherplus, the commit unfortunately is incomplete −− for example, gigabeatf is not renamed to gigabeatfx, which would be in line with the rest of the commit
18:51:56bluebrotherthe most target specific images are for the clip
18:52:09linuxstbI see quite a few ondio images as well...
18:52:24fmlAlexP: to the does form .-) I can't commit at the moment.
18:52:28domonokypixelma: if you have ideas, about better remote handling for the themepage, please write them down. They will only be forgotten and ignored if you never tell them to me :-)
18:52:28AlexPah right
18:52:53bluebrotherit seems the manuals haven't build at all tonight
18:53:50bluebrotherwhy does the timestamp on the server say 14th but the index file 15th?
18:54:17linuxstbI guess timezone differences on the different download mirrors?
18:55:05linuxstbThe download server I've connected to says (for example) "2009-Dec-15 03:12:45"
18:55:46bluebrotherhmm, good point.
18:57:20CIA-6New commit by 03alex (r24033): Change "Shutdown" to "Shuts down" in the name of consistency.
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19:01:56domonokywhat happens if i load a theme with a rwps/rsbs set on a target without any remote ? is it just ignored ?
19:02:44domonokyand what if the theme has a rwps/rsbs for a different remote resolution (but main-lcd resolution is the same) ?
19:03:42bluebrotherlinuxstb: different question: what do you think about merging all those bin2c copies and adding real depencency generation to the various patcher Makefiles and putting a common part in rbutil/tools?
19:04:41*linuxstb wonders why FS #10858 wasn't discussed more...
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19:05:49linuxstbbluebrother: I would rather keep the different tools independent, so standalone source tarballs can be released (something we haven't really done in the past, but I think we should - for ipodpatcher/sansapatcher/mkamsboot etc)
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19:06:56gevaertslinuxstb: up to the point where we have more than five copies of the same helper tools?
19:07:10AlexPlinuxstb: ask tomers
19:07:40gevaertswell, two...
19:07:58linuxstbgevaerts: Exactly ;)
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19:08:25linuxstbBut I'm not even sure if they're the same - IIRC funman made some changes to the mkamsboot bin2c
19:09:24pixelmadomonoky: I believe the remote part will be ignored on targets without remote, my guess about other remote resolutions - rwps will be loaded and if it works it'll be displayed, otherwise it probably falls back to the inbuilt (R)WPS. I imagine most Iriver RWPSs will work on the Iaudio remotes, vice-versa is probably not that likely
19:09:41bluebrotheryes, that one is different, but not too fundamental different. The sansapatcher and ipodpatcher copies are almost identical, except that the ipodpatcher bin2c skips the .ipod header
19:10:30bluebrotherbesides, we already use bin2c from the tools folder for beastpatcher.
19:10:45linuxstbbluebrother: But is that really worth worrying about? What problem is caused by having three slightly different versions of a trivial utility which needs no maintainance?
19:10:58pixelmadomonoky: and I already gave a hint (more to myself) about the theme site idea yesterday morning here (and put the small reminder into that post), the thread started to annoy me though and I wanted to put an end to the current discussion first)
19:11:09bluebrotherif that is moved to rbutil/ we could very well release patchers −− we just need to include the utils folder for the tarballs.
19:12:04bluebrotheroh, that's simple: I'm currently looking into the Makefiles. My goal is to have a libipodpatcher and libsansapatcher, as with the other tools we link against rbutil
19:13:07linuxstbAlexP: Are you happy with the choice of the "does" form? "Shut down" seems better to me than "Shuts down", but I won't lose sleep over it...
19:13:13domonokypixelma: oki, so my shorttime plan is to change the themepage, to only show themes where the mainlcd fits and passes checkwps, and if they have the same remotelcd resolution then the theme, the remote files also have to pass checkwps. (otherwise remote skin file are then not checked)
19:13:18AlexPlinuxstb: I agree
19:13:33AlexPI much prefer shutdown to shuts down
19:13:45linuxstb"shutdown"? or "shut down" ?
19:13:53AlexPhence my slightly snarky commit message
19:13:55*gevaerts votes for the reverse
19:14:02linuxstbdown shut?
19:14:08AlexPlinuxstb: dont mind
19:14:15gevaertslinuxstb: no, "shut up" :)
19:14:18bluebrothertuhs nwod?
19:14:23*gevaerts hides
19:15:32linuxstbbluebrother: Those two libs don't need bin2c/ipod2c though.
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19:19:30bluebrotherlinuxstb: sure. But as I said, I'm looking at the Makefiles ;-)
19:20:08*bluebrother still searches how to get svn display where a file was copied from with svn status / diff
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19:20:20pixelmadomonoky: my idea was to have on rwps theme pages (where the themes are still called .rwps and addressed in the cfg files as such). This will at least make it easier for people who designed e.g. a Clip theme to make it available as Iriver RWPS as they don't have to package one for an H300 and another for an H100 with something they don't care about as main screen WPS - and possibly leaves room for some automation. I'd suggest the sorting on these
19:20:20pixelma sub pages to be after font size (don't set it though in the cfg)
19:21:03linuxstbbluebrother: You could always just create a new Makefile for use by rbutil if sharing the standalone one causes problems. They could possibly share some common stuff though. But I don't really feel that strongly - if you think you can significantly clean things up, then as you said we can always work out a way to create a source tarball...
19:21:55bluebrotherlinuxstb: ok. I'll post a patch, hopefully in a couple of days. Too much RL these days ...
19:22:07linuxstbbluebrother: What about doing "svn log" on the new file?
19:22:13pixelmadomonoky: or make a list "works with main screen themes: blah, blub..."
19:22:22domonokypixelma: rwps themes sounds good. but is probably a little bit of work :-)
19:22:54pixelmaI already have SVGs and can easily make small PNGs out of them ;)
19:23:49bluebrotherlinuxstb: I get a "file not found" from svn.
19:25:30bluebrotherI'm a bit reluctant committing this complete rename without looking at some kind of diff first :/
19:27:12pixelmadomonoky: and it's probably less work than implementing repackaging etc.
19:27:33pixelmawhich might be undesired too
19:28:05domonokypixelma: sure, i dont really want todo any repackaging on the server.
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19:32:17CIA-6New commit by 03bluebrother (r24034): Rename target-specific images, update \specimg macro for targets it hasn't been done with r24014, and rename the front images for those targets. ...
19:32:44CIA-6New commit by 03Domonoky (r24035): rework checkwps handling und display. Only check against targets with the same mainlcd, and only check remote files if the target has the same ...
19:34:19linuxstbbluebrother: "svn info file.ext" shows where it was copied from..... I see you committed anyway ;)
19:34:34bluebrotherAlexP: I hope I haven't missed any files. My tests worked fine at least, but unfortunately I have to leave in a while
19:35:07JdGordondomonoky: your question 30min ago... themes with a rwps/rsbs without a lcd remote are perfectly safe, the setting is ignored
19:35:21domonokyJdGordon: good :-)
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19:35:47JdGordonah, pixelma answered already.. I didnt see the reply :)
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19:37:25domonokypixelma: unicatcherv32 is now fixed :-)
19:37:54bluebrotherlinuxstb: ah :) Why on earth can't svn status show that info?
19:38:24linuxstbbluebrother: What do you think about creating an ipodmini2g manual? It seems odd to have the 2g and 1g both link to a manual called "ipodmini1g" (it was OK when the manual was called ipodmini)
19:39:38pixelmaJdGordon: same as in the forums ;\
19:40:58bluebrotherlinuxstb: would make sense, but we also have that issue for h100 vs. h120
19:42:38JdGordonpixelma: no, in the forums I was reiterating :) your and bluebrother's nicks are botht he same colour for some reason and the posts sort of got lost tpgether :p
19:43:22pixelmayou were partially wrong though :P
19:43:35bluebrother*gnah*
19:43:49bluebrothersomething broke with my last commit but I have to leave in a few minutes :/
19:45:05bluebrotherwow, who did that genericimg for the clip?
19:45:58bluebrotherno wonder the images for the clip didn't broke
19:46:57notlisteningFlynDice, ping
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19:48:17notlisteningFlynDice, sprry just got back online ywas there any thing i can provide to help on the Panic issue?
19:49:37GodEaterpixelma: did you get a chance to check that patch for "pause between tracks" on hwcodec yet?
19:50:00pixelmano, I'm not at "home" yet
19:50:06GodEaterah ok, sorry!
19:50:28CIA-6New commit by 03bluebrother (r24036): \genericimg should be the generic image, i.e. the resolution. If a target specific screenshot exists (using the \specimg value) exists it's used ...
19:50:56bluebrotherAlexP: got to go now. Is I still missed something please ping me, I'll check later
19:51:38AlexPI'll have a shufti, good work
19:57:04FlynDicenotlistening: What did you do to try and fix it on your player, fsck or format or anything else and are you still getting panics?
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20:04:38notlisteningfsck i tried and then rewrote the whole rockbox dir and still panics
20:04:43notlisteningnot done a format yet
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20:08:46FlynDicenotlistening: If you look in your .rockbox folder do you have files with names like "." "i.c" "sp.e" etc?
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20:09:53FlynDicenotlistening: and do you have Directory Cache enabled?
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20:13:26notlisteningin .rockbox i do have a "." but none of the others
20:13:45JdGordon|amiconn: (re the 1G/2G ipods) ok, so there is any point keeping that bug open?
20:14:46amiconnyes
20:15:10amiconnIt does not only affect G1/G2, but also G3 and Mini G1, as mentioned
20:15:25JdGordon|is there something that cna be done about it?
20:15:33amiconnThe repeat handling is needed - I'm open to implementation
20:15:34notlisteningDorecory Cache is off
20:15:36amiconn..ideas
20:16:42amiconnThere is no touch detection on these wheels (and on G1, it wouldn't even be technically possible). It might be possible to base the decision on speed
20:16:53gevaertsJdGordon|: re FS #10551: I suspect that this is either a feature request or an out of sync voice file, but let's wait for a response first
20:17:14JdGordon|yeah could be
20:17:48*amiconn somehow needs to restore his motivation :\\
20:17:58FlynDicenotlistening: those were just examples, for some reason when playlist_control gets saved it's having problems. I think it's just when using the data base but I'm not sure right now
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20:19:35notlisteningOk well my player is set to use voice files aswell and nothing plays back audio wise anymore so maybe i need to format the device again
20:21:56JdGordon|GodEater: unless its really important... svn shouldnt have DEBUGF() calls...
20:22:06JdGordon|i.e this playback mode doesnt need it
20:23:22GodEaterI took them out
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20:24:30gevaertsB4gder: shouldn't the mailing list propose English (UK) instead of English (US) as the preferred language for mails? ;)
20:25:56JdGordon|GodEater: ok cool :) didnt look at the patch (yet), just the irc logs
20:26:19*JdGordon| votes for English (AU)!
20:28:06gevaertsHow do we handle bugs that have been fixed but are not in a release yet? Normally we close them, but how about e.g. FS #5269? It's said to be fixed, but since h300 bootloaders are a bit tricky it's not actually fixed for any real users...
20:30:11linuxstbgevaerts: I think in that case, it should stay open - as you say, it's not actually fixed if a user follows the official installation instructions and installs the last released bootloader.
20:30:45Torneyou could set it to 100% complete but not close it?
20:31:02*gevaerts tries that
20:32:11gevaertsdone, but it's not really terribly useful...
20:32:23Tornewell, no :)
20:32:45gevaertsa status for this would be nice
20:33:55Jaykayhow about ficing it with the comment "fixed, but bla" ?
20:34:02Jaykay*fixing
20:34:22JdGordon|marking it 100% complete is probaly a bad idea... didnt the svn iriver bootloader brick daps?
20:34:25Jaykayi mean *closing :)
20:34:53gevaertsJaykay: the main reason to leave this open is to avoid getting duplicate reports on this. Closing it will not help with that
20:35:15gevaertsJdGordon|: well, this particular bug does not need any more work (except closing the bug at some point)
20:36:02Jaykaygevaerts: it would be reporting a bug with an outdated version of the bootloader, so it's invalid
20:36:21gevaertsJaykay: that misses the point...
20:36:29Jaykayok, sorry
20:37:18gevaerts(a) it's the released bootloader, and using another one is dangerous so we can't even consider asking that, and (b) whether you close a bug report as a duplicate or as invalid makes no difference, it's still useless noise
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20:45:32linuxstbliar: Hi. Have you been working on the NAND/FTL driver for the Nano2G? I've seen you discuss it in #linux4nano-dev recently.
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20:51:43liarlinuxstb: i have less spare time because of school but ill try to work on it this weekend
20:53:37linuxstbliar: Have you posted anything to the Rockbox patch tracker? It would be nice to not lose your work - quite a few people seem to be reporting various flash-related bugs.
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21:01:17liarlinuxstb: FS #10775 <= i think its because of the FIFOs, but TheSeven thinks the nand problems could have a different cause too
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21:05:04linuxstbliar: OK, thanks. What does your comment "its failing with some ipods but with others not" mean? Does your patch break Rockbox on ipods that it is currently working on?
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21:07:38gevaertsbertrik: in january you said on FS #8208 "please remind me if I forget", and there's nothing after that :)
21:07:57gevaertsso please consider yourself reminded :)
21:09:11bertrikok
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21:12:41liarlinuxstb: it breaks rockbox on every NANO2G(it works for some minutes/hours/days and then the fifo waiting times out) but it prevents rockbox from corrupting the FTL
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22:22:18EdStokesI wish to add my FmPresets to FmPresetsAmerica. I believe I need write permissions. May I?
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22:26:11pixelmaEdStokes: this is your wiki name too?
22:29:11EdStokesYes
22:31:09pixelmaEdStokes: you should be good to go now
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22:40:06baptiste_Hi! could somebody help me for installing rockbox on a ipod. it cannot detect anything and a i have .log which can be useful to solve it but i can't read it
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23:00
23:00:21linuxstbbaptiste_: Which ipod do you have?
23:00:21 Quit petur (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
23:01:18 Part froggyman
23:01:20EdStokespixelma: Thanks for setting my write permissions. It all worked.
23:02:09baptiste_linuxstb: Ipod 5th generation video 30G black
23:02:18 Part EdStokes
23:02:57linuxstbbaptiste_: What do you mean when you say you can't read the .log file?
23:03:23 Quit Tomis ()
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23:04:04 Nick p3tur is now known as petur (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur)
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23:05:07baptiste_linuxstb: it means that i guess the .lof file means something, it is readable in a text file, but i can't understand anything about what problem it is and maybe somebody could have a look on this file and tell what to do
23:05:20baptiste_.log file sorry
23:05:23linuxstbbaptiste_: Can you upload it to here? http://www.pastebin.ca/upload.php
23:07:01baptiste_linuxstb: http://pastebin.ca/1717491
23:08:08 Quit PaulJam__ (Nick collision from services.)
23:08:09baptiste_linuxstb: the problem is "No Ipod detected Permission for disc access denied!"
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23:08:38linuxstbAre you running Rockbox Utility as root?
23:10:45 Quit Jaykay (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:10:53baptiste_No, i don't think so. I don't even how could I running Rockbox utilisy as root. When i running ubuntu, i don't even need to log on user's profile + password. How can I run under root?
23:12:04Hillshumbaptiste_: You need to run rbutil as root
23:12:10linuxstbFrom the terminal, type "sudo ./rbutil"
23:12:11gevaertsbaptiste_: use sudo
23:12:57Hillshumcould we ship a launcher that uses either gksudo or ksudo or something with rbutil to simplify this?
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23:14:16linuxstbHillshum: You don't always want to run rbutil as root - just for the *patcher bootloader installs.
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23:14:50Hillshumlinuxstb: Or better yet, add support for something like policykit for when the need arises
23:14:56baptiste_I see that the minimal contribution is a great opportunity as developers as you. I fix my problem concerning root / user access and I coming back to you. Thank you for your support
23:15:09fmllinuxstb: Hello! Don't you like the does form in general or just for the shut down action?
23:15:56linuxstbfml: In general - I would have preferred your commit to have done the opposite... But I don't feel that strongly about it.
23:16:18fmlActually, as I see now, other places use the do form, e.g. the actions for the file types.
23:17:11linuxstbHillshum: I'm sure patches would be welcome... ;)
23:17:17fmlI asked about it but we didn't have a long discussion. Hence I just provided the patch. It would be good to have it the same in all places.
23:17:42Hillshumlinuxstb: The other problem is being distro neutral...
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23:18:50fmlThis is easily done. GodEater, would you mind it? You prefered the does form but I think you wouldn't object to the do form as well :-)
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23:19:55*gevaerts suspects that we now have enough committers that sometimes one of them commits a patch not realising that the author is also a committer
23:25:40*JdGordon|| did that ones already :)
23:26:02JdGordon||or I did the other way around... thining he was a commiter but wasnt
23:26:11JdGordon||actually.. probably both
23:26:29fmlI think it's not bad in general to not to commit one's own patches.
23:27:14gevaertsoh, it's definitely not a big problem. It's just that if you know that the patch submitter is a committer, there's probably a reason it wasn't just committed straight away
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23:28:38fml gevaerts: it's always good to let it lay for some time and to have some discussion about it.
23:29:18JdGordon||speaking of which.... fml, did you have any problems with how i closed 10289? :)
23:30:45fml JdGordon: you closed it techically perfect (from the FS point of view). But I didn't test the implemented solution :-)
23:31:09*JdGordon|| looks around...
23:31:12JdGordon||neither did I :D
23:34:58 Part fml ("Bye!")
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23:38:14baptiste_linuxstb: IT WORKED!!THANKS YOUR HELP!! YOU CAN'T IMAGINE HOW WONDERFUL IT IS TO SEE ROCKBOX ON MY IPOD TECHNOLOGY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
23:39:02Hillshumbaptiste_: Now for fixing the caps lock key? :P
23:39:16Horschticaps lock is cruise control for cool
23:40:52baptiste_:) no, it just an explosion of joy, sorring for "psamming" :d
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23:49:00notlisteningfull format and rockbox reload fingers crossed and don't PANIC
23:49:56 Join YoYoFreakCJ [0] (n=5b2ef368@giant.haxx.se)
23:50:19YoYoFreakCJhi
23:50:36notlisteningand i hate the Sansa firmware refesh database blah blah yawn
23:51:14YoYoFreakCJthere are not enough cases of the 5.5 video ipod not working with rockbox caused by wrong sector sizes
23:51:32*Hillshum 'fixed' the database refresh by somehome messing up the formatting so that the Sansa tells him to free 80MG or something
23:51:52Hillshumside effect is the OF won't work besides USB
23:52:37YoYoFreakCJIm getting the error "cant load rockbox.ipod: file not found", and it also says on the screen "partition 1: 0x0B 7130 MB" although I have a 30GB iPod
23:53:43notlisteningmy sansa now work but a full format to fix :(
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23:55:20gevaertsYoYoFreakCJ: the "7130 MB" is just a display issue, the size printing code doesn't use the right sector size.
23:55:38gevaertsYoYoFreakCJ: has this ipod been reformatted, and if so, how?
23:56:20YoYoFreakCJI recently quick formatted it to FAT32 in windows, restored the firmware using iTunes, and used rockbox utility to install rockbox
23:56:56gevaertshm, that should be fine...
23:57:06YoYoFreakCJfunny thing is that it worked 2 weeks ago. although I did a complete formatting back then
23:58:06YoYoFreakCJby now I changed the display and had the hard drive on an iPod with a sort of messed up motherboard. it didn't get the battery right, but I dont think that this caused some damage to my hd
23:58:21linuxstbYoYoFreakCJ: When you quick formatted it, did you format the entire disk, or partition 2 on the disk?
23:58:32gevaertshm, was this other ipod a non-5.5G?

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