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#rockbox log for 2010-02-04

00:00:19bluebroth3rSaliver: why change the battery based on a "feeling"? If it's that important measure it.
00:00:25DhraakellianCongrats on the release!
00:00:28*Dhraakellian scurries off
00:00:55Saliverbut the feeling hurts...
00:01:02bluebroth3rand btw, I'm using a mini2g daily (but with CF mod too) and battery is ok −− though my battery is already quite old (3years or so with lots of use)
00:01:04 Quit jgarvey (Quit: Leaving)
00:01:11linuxstbHontoniLinux: I've no experience of either e200, but I would assume it wouldn't have been promoted to "stable" status if it was in any way unstable...
00:01:19bluebroth3rbah. This is about facts, not feelings.
00:01:25linuxstb(replace the it with e200v2)
00:01:30SaliverI charged my ipod yesterday in the evening and listened to music today for about 2 hours
00:01:44Saliverrockbox is telling me that only 78% left
00:01:46bluebroth3rso what?
00:02:04bluebroth3rso _that_ is hard facts. ROFL.
00:02:41Saliverwell iam kind of desperate because my big ipod video is working for real 20 hours
00:02:46gevaertsSaliver: use it until it runs down. The percentage on its own doesn't necessarily mean much
00:03:06HontoniLinuxlinuxstb: I see, thanks. Gonna be difficult to tell before buying it online if it's v1 or not.
00:03:09Saliverokay, maybe you're right
00:03:35Salivershould i change the capacity of the battery in rockbox?
00:03:47Saliveris it necessarily?
00:04:33gevaertsthat's only used for the runtime estimate
00:05:15gevaertsHave a look at http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/IpodRuntime
00:05:41gevaerts8 hours seems fairly normal for a 2nd gen mini, unless it has a compactflash card
00:06:33SaliverI see your point
00:06:49Saliverit has an CF card
00:06:59Salivera CF card
00:10:10Salivergevaerts, what does that mean for me now?
00:10:24gevaertshow should I know? I'm not a battery specialist
00:11:16Saliveri see
00:11:39Saliverbut thank you guys for the help
00:11:47 Join piotrekm [0] (~pm@adei9.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)
00:11:53Saliverlast question:
00:12:24Saliverisn't it maybe normal that another firmware on a music player reduce the batterylife of it?
00:12:51*gevaerts doesn't understand that question
00:13:14*kugel spots a problem with pla rework
00:14:07Saliveri mean another firmware like the rockbox which runs with a bootloader
00:14:42Saliverwould automatically decrease the batterylife because it constrantly needs to read from the hard drive?
00:15:42kugelif at all, it's the other way around
00:16:02gevaertswhy do you think the bootloader "constantly needs to read from the hard drive"?
00:16:16gevaertsThe bootloader only runs for a second or so at most...
00:16:27kugelrockbox runs from ram only, so it only touches the hard drive when playing music (or browsing)
00:17:05Saliverallright i got it
00:17:12*kugel needs to invent PLA_*_REL
00:17:26Saliverwell i didnt express myself that good ; /
00:17:34Saliverbut thank you for your help guys
00:18:00Jdgordon_kugel: really?
00:18:09kugelyea
00:18:11*linuxstb thinks we should demote the e200r to "unstable", due to the installation procedure (lack of rbutil support)
00:18:47*kugel disagrees and thinks rbutil support shouldn't block ultimatively
00:19:16kugelafterall, this is whether rockbox runs fine. rbutil is just for installation convinience
00:19:36linuxstbThat's not what the front page of the website says. Or the release notes
00:20:06kugelwell, e200r is supported by rbutil
00:20:12kugeljust not the first time installation
00:20:51linuxstbNot being able to install Rockbox the first time is hardly "supported".
00:21:40kugelyou can do anything else with it, update rockbox, install voices or themes
00:22:40 Quit Saliver (Quit: CGI:IRC)
00:23:08kugelI don't think bootloader installation is mandatory for "supported", it has a lot of other features to offer
00:24:57kugelJdgordon_: there's PLA_SELECT, and PLA_SELECT_REPEAT. to not render _REPEAT useless SELECT needs |BUTTON_REL
00:25:03kugelwhich is annoying in bubbles for example
00:25:30 Join Strife89 [0] (~Strife89@adsl-154-14-2.mcn.bellsouth.net)
00:25:46kugelI'm going to say "if you need both actions, then use _REL and _REPEAT, otherwise SELECT will do fine
00:25:47kugel"
00:27:12 Quit Strife89 (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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00:28:45 Quit dfkt (Quit: -= SysReset 2.53=- Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.)
00:29:32 Join Saliver [0] (~52529101@giant.haxx.se)
00:29:54Saliverhey it's me again. I have just one last question
00:30:10Saliverand than i will leave forever
00:30:13Saliverpromise
00:31:08Salivereverytime I shutdown my rockbox on ipod mini I get a 'low-battery-icon' for a few seconds
00:31:33linuxstbSaliver: That's a feature...
00:32:54Salivercommon, thats not true ;-)
00:33:26linuxstbWhat isn't true?
00:33:27 Quit moos (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6/20100115144158])
00:33:52Saliverwhat do you mean by feature?
00:34:15Saliverdoes the icon try to tell me something about my battery?
00:34:17kugelis that really a feature?
00:34:46AlexPIt is a side effect of a feature
00:35:05AlexPIt is the side effect of avoiding the having to reset the ipod to get it to boot from time to time
00:35:26linuxstbI mean it's known behaviour - torne's (I think) recent commit to change how Rockbox powers off uses the Apple bootloader to power-off, and that displays that icon.
00:35:40*linuxstb isn't a fan of that commit...
00:35:52Saliverah i see. so its normal?
00:35:56AlexPhttp://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/10107
00:36:07kugelah, I see
00:36:54 Quit kugel (Remote host closed the connection)
00:38:29FlynDicemc2739: Got your message, Thanks. I've been looking at disassemblies of the patched firmwares when I got it and it seems consistent ;-)
00:39:11 Quit ender` (Quit: You don't have to think too hard when you talk to teachers. -- J. D. Salinger)
00:42:04 Quit flydutch (Quit: /* empty */)
00:43:15stripwaxstripwax is still not 100% sure that ipod commit isn't causing weird startup-into-OF problems
00:43:27stripwaxer. third person is cool? <shrug>
00:43:56stripwaxFWIW I've been utterly unable to reproduce *reliably* but it's happened two times since I last reported it.
00:44:49stripwaxCould I perhaps have a very old bootloader that is not quite compatible (somehow?) with that commit?
00:44:49 Quit piotrekm (Quit: Leaving.)
00:44:58 Quit Saliver (Quit: CGI:IRC)
00:46:06linuxstbstripwax: I can't think why the Rockbox bootloader version would affect anything - I don't think we've updated it for years...
00:49:12stripwaxamiconn - do I remember correctly that you recently (or not so recently) reordered the arguments for SMULL/SMLAL in mdct_arm.S ? or was that somebody else? I'm wondering (if I 'mreading it correctly) why the twiddle factors are in the fourth place, rather than third. Won't most of the twiddle factors need most of the full range to represent them?
00:49:40stripwaxlinuxstb - wasn't sure. Ok, so probably not that then. So strange
00:50:07*stripwax is looking at the timings in http://www.wss.co.uk/pinknoise/ARMinstrs/ARMinstrs.html
00:52:11stripwaxactually I wonder what the distribution of bitrange of inputs looks like vs distribution of bitrange of twiddles.
00:55:03stripwaxAye caramba. So multiplying by a negative value always takes 16 cycles on pp? (or am I reading that wrong, or is it actually garbag)
01:00
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01:23:11*Strife89 decides to test FS #8802.
01:23:14Strife89http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8802
01:25:54Strife89Has anyone else been using it? Anything remarkably good or bad?
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01:39:46stripwaxMm, this doc seems (naturally) more reliable - http://infocenter.arm.com/help/index.jsp?topic=/com.arm.doc.ddi0210c/Cacbgice.html - the timings suggest four cycle SMULL on arm7tdmi (that's equivalent to pp502x.. right?)
01:41:04stripwaxeither way, way over half the twiddle factors will end up in 3 or 4 cycles - there'd be very few (imo but not checked) that have top 8 bits (or more) clear and/or top 8 bits (or more) all set to 1
01:42:12stripwaxSo if I make the vague and totally unsubstantiated assumption that the mdct inputs are uniformly distributed between 0x00000000 and 0xffffffff, then you'd be better off putting the twiddle factor as first arg and the mdct input as second arg, to SMULL/etc instructions.
01:42:28stripwaxanyway. will see if that makes much/any difference to mdctexp...
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01:50:36Jdgordon_FFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK
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01:54:30komputeslol
01:54:42stripwaxhm.
01:54:42 Join Strife89 [0] (~Strife89@adsl-220-102-195.mcn.bellsouth.net)
01:54:47komputesso is the new rockbox available?
01:54:54 Quit Stephen__ (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
01:55:16saratogastripwax: when I tested wma ages ago, i found that the data to be transformed was much likely to have zeros then the mdct coefficients
01:56:09stripwaxsaratoga - makes perfect sense to me - so data should be in the last operand of smull rather than penultimate (twiddle should be in penultimate)
01:56:42saratogathat makes sense, maybe flip it around and see if it helps?
01:56:49saratogaor don't if we're about to remove the old mdct lib anyway
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01:57:14 Quit Strife89|Desktop (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
01:57:58saratogastripwax: also, about that site, I believe those clocks are the latency, while the actual pipeline delay is no more then 3 for a normal mul, 4 for a long mul or mul accumulate, and 5 for a long mul accumulate
01:57:59saratogaIIRC
01:58:30komputesAnyone feel like walking me through installing rb 3.5 on an iPod nano 1G?
01:58:37saratogayes, read manual
01:59:06stripwaxYou can even use the Rockbox Utility
01:59:14saratogasince a 32x8 mul can be done completely pipelined (no stall), while theres 1 cycle stall for each extra 8 bits input, then 1 cycle stall to store the top 32 bits (if applicable) and 1 stall to do the accumulate
02:00
02:00:04saratogasince the multiplier is 8 bits wide, the reg write back is 32 bits, and the accumulate cannot be fused into the last mul stage
02:00:20stripwaxsaratoga - right. would you agree with my suggestion then though, or disagree? (I couldn't tell :-)
02:00:21saratogabecause arm*tdmi sucks
02:00:45saratogai think the input data should be whichever slot can early terminate (i forget)
02:00:50saratoganot the twiddles
02:00:57stripwaxyep. cool!
02:01:16stripwaxso I'll test now whether that change impacts performance now
02:01:23*stripwax now now now
02:05:16stripwaxsaratoga - barely makes a difference as far as I can tell. Bit surprised by that actually.
02:05:50saratogait probably matters more the lower the bitrate, since they'll be more zeros
02:06:34stripwax96kbps vorbis is 28.54MHz on ipod 5g
02:06:48stripwax(v. good point though!!)
02:07:45Strife89The latest patch for FS #8802 instructs me to define HAVE_USE_CHARGING_ENABLE, but I'm not sure where to do so.
02:07:46 Join GodEater [0] (~bibble@rockbox/staff/GodEater)
02:08:05stripwaxOh, hm, maybe that is faster than what I had before. Hard to tell, I probably didn't save those results anywhere. It's pretty much all dead on compared to http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9882?getfile=19261 - which is before that bitreverse optimisation (which I already ported into mdctexp)
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02:08:53saratogaStrife89: usually in the target's config file, but you can also do it in makefiles and other places
02:09:14stripwaxSo vorbis+mdctexp is 'sortof no worse' than Tremor circa April last year..
02:09:18Strife89saratoga: Would I add a line in the makefile?
02:10:32saratogatheres a define line in the makefile
02:11:07Strife89Ah, EXTRA_DEFINES ?
02:11:14saratogahmm why isn't rbutil installing 3.5?
02:11:36CIA-8New commit by 03stripwax (r24505): Swap order of factors in XNPROD_etc around so that early termination could occur based on input data (rather than trying to early terminate based on ...
02:11:42stripwax^ mdctexp..
02:12:47Strife89saratoga: You mean "EXTRA_DEFINES"?
02:15:13Strife89Blargh, that's not it....
02:16:13Strife89Fuck, what do I change?....
02:16:48stripwaxYowser, I think I blew something up in mdctexp
02:17:23mc2739Strife89: what target?
02:17:31Strife89mc2739: iPod Photo.
02:19:08Strife89mc2739: I need to define HAVE_USB_CHARGING_ENABLE
02:20:14mc2739Strife89: I would add #define HAVE_USB_CHARGING_ENABLE to /firmware/export/config/ipodcolor.h
02:22:45Strife89mc2739: Thanks. :)
02:24:23 Join KEROLiUKAS [0] (~kp@c-24-7-220-190.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
02:24:39KEROLiUKASRockbox is still actively being developed, correct?
02:24:51komputesI'm trying to install rb 3.5 on an iPod nano 1G? Can anyone help me with this?
02:24:53krazykitas evidenced by the multiple daily commits, yes
02:25:02KEROLiUKASGreat
02:25:11KEROLiUKASLast time I updated was in like 2008 or 7
02:25:19KEROLiUKASSo it should be nice to see what has been done
02:25:22stripwaxkomputes - did you try reading the manual like we suggested to you a moment ago when you asked this question?
02:25:28Strife89KEROLiUKAS: A LOT has happened. :)
02:26:54KEROLiUKASGoing to install it now, yet I have no idea how to do it anymore. hehe
02:27:02KEROLiUKASRunning on a sandisk e200
02:27:31stripwaxKEROLiUKAS - I suggest you also read the manual
02:27:40stripwaxInstallation instructions should be in that
02:28:10KEROLiUKASI have read it before, but a refresher is always nice
02:28:30KEROLiUKASthough I don't think I need to keep the dual boot anymore as it supports usb
02:29:06*stripwax has bust mdctexp somehow but will have to fix it another day - gnight
02:29:26 Quit stripwax (Quit: http://miranda-im.org)
02:30:41KEROLiUKASI am running
02:30:41KEROLiUKASVersion: r18607-3.0-08092
02:32:05Strife89KEROLiUKAS: There have been a LOT of improvements since then. XD
02:32:30KEROLiUKASTue Sep 23 23:01:58 2008 hehe wow
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02:38:08 Quit GodEater (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
02:39:34KEROLiUKAShmm it seems like I need to revert to stock firmware before I begin
02:39:40KEROLiUKASnew bootloader
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02:47:11KEROLiUKAScrap, I messed up. I formatted the device without removing the old bootloader and now it wont boot into original firmware nor rockbox
02:48:49Strife89KEROLiUKAS: You can't boot it by holding Previous (Left)?
02:49:21KEROLiUKASno..it says
02:50:04Strife89KEROLiUKAS: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SansaE200Unbrick#Recovery_Mode
02:50:32Strife89KEROLiUKAS: Be careful when you dive into those instructions. Follow them diligently.
02:50:33KEROLiUKASah thanks
02:51:10Strife89KEROLiUKAS: Read the whole thing before you begin.
02:51:23KEROLiUKASyes sir :)
02:51:39Strife89KEROLiUKAS: Sorry if I sound bossy. XD
02:53:46KEROLiUKASno, I understand, noobs find ways to break things
02:53:55KEROLiUKASinfact, new ways
02:54:00KEROLiUKASthey are like pioneers
02:54:10KEROLiUKASanyway, I got it working again
02:54:23Strife89KEROLiUKAS: :)
02:54:48Strife89KEROLiUKAS: I was a n00b once. In fact, I still am!
02:55:01Strife89KEROLiUKAS: I'm just a seasoned n00b, that's all. :)
02:55:09KEROLiUKAShehe
02:55:50KEROLiUKASrockbox utility is great
02:55:50Strife89KEROLiUKAS: Anyway, all you really need to do is download a build and copy the ".rockbox" folder to your Sansa.
02:55:54KEROLiUKASmakes it so simple
02:56:01Strife89KEROLiUKAS: Or use ROckbox Utility. XD
02:56:04KEROLiUKASwell I need to install the bootloader first
02:56:17*Strife89 still does everything manually. :)
02:56:33KEROLiUKASyay, I am in rockbox
02:56:55KEROLiUKASwow it looks the same, after all this time
02:56:55KEROLiUKASnice
02:56:56KEROLiUKAShehe
02:57:12Strife89KEROLiUKAS: It may look the same, but check out the Thems gallery.
02:57:26Strife89KEROLiUKAS: There have been many changes under the hood. :)
02:57:37KEROLiUKASyea of course, the engine is what matters
02:57:40Strife89KEROLiUKAS:
02:57:43Strife89KEROLiUKAS: http://themes.rockbox.org/index.php?target=sansae200
02:58:34KEROLiUKASthanks
02:59:37saratogait shouldn't look the same, we have a default theme now, so if it looks the same you've probably forced it to keep using your old theme
02:59:57KEROLiUKAScabbiev2 has been the default
03:00
03:00:03saratogaactually maybe we had cabbiev2 for 3.0
03:00:16KEROLiUKASyea, that's the last version I used
03:04:07 Quit robin0800 (Remote host closed the connection)
03:06:21komputesstripwax: rbutil is telling me that 3.4 is the latest, I went to the installation tab, do i click install bootloader or install rockbox first?
03:08:56komputesI really don't feel like breaking this again, I would appreciate if someone can walk me through this (and yes i have read the manual)
03:10:29KEROLiUKASif you already have installed the bootloader, you do not need to do it again
03:10:44komputesok, so bootloader first it is
03:11:19komputesdone, it's finnisged, the button which should say "Close" still says "Abort" this should be fixed
03:11:35komputestotally messed
03:11:51 Quit Strife89 (Quit: Rebooting.)
03:12:15komputesnow is 3.5 the stable, archives or current build?
03:12:48krazykitstable
03:14:49komputesok then
03:14:53*komputes crosses fingers
03:15:23komputeskrazykit: I had stable selected and it downloaded 3.4
03:15:46komputesrockbox-ipodnano1g-3.4.zip
03:17:13Lloreankomputes: What version of RBUtil are you using?
03:17:25komputesLlorean: 1.2.4
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03:17:54saratogathe latest version doesn't seem to see the new release
03:18:01saratogai assume some link on the download page needs updating
03:18:24komputesand stripwax thought the manual was the answer ;)
03:18:40Lloreankomputes: Well the manual tells you how to manually install
03:18:43LloreanSo I'd say it is AN answer.
03:19:01saratogayou can just hit latest build, that'll give you essentially the release, plus a couple newer things
03:19:08Unhelpfulmanual install of *rockbox* is pretty easy. of the bootloader somewhat less so.
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03:19:17komputessaratoga: ok let me try that then
03:19:20LloreanUnhelpful: iPod Nano 1g, it's very simplistic
03:19:49komputesProblem detected:
03:19:49komputesTarget mismatch detected. Installed target: ipodnano, selected target: Ipod Nano (1st gen).
03:19:58saratogaha
03:20:05Unhelpfulclever :D
03:20:07komputessaratoga: selecting the current build failed ^
03:20:21saratogalooks like something else broke when the targets were renamed
03:20:35saratogalooks like you're doing a manual isntall then
03:20:37komputesso what should I do?
03:20:52komputesplease walk me through it, in a PM if you can/want
03:21:16saratogayou should read the manual
03:21:24*komputes facepalms
03:21:33komputeslater guys, thanks
03:21:36 Quit komputes (Quit: I haven't slept for ten days, because that would be too long.)
03:22:04KEROLiUKASlol
03:24:06KEROLiUKASMind fucking blown
03:24:19KEROLiUKASWhen in usb mode, I can control volume of my pc?
03:24:20KEROLiUKASwhaaa
03:24:58KEROLiUKASand control wmp
03:26:00UnhelpfulKEROLiUKAS: but wait, that's not all! you can also use your DAP as a mouse or to control your browser! (results may vary, void where prohibited by law, etc)
03:26:16KEROLiUKASHow?
03:26:28KEROLiUKASah presentation mode
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03:27:31KEROLiUKAScrazy
03:27:54KEROLiUKASwhat other big features have I misseD?
03:29:03UnhelpfulKEROLiUKAS: ... read the manual. ;)
03:29:30KEROLiUKASah good point
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03:41:26krazykitKEROLiUKAS, the MajorChanges wiki page would be a good reference too
03:41:30KEROLiUKASffffffffffu
03:41:53KEROLiUKASI just realized, the reason I have not been using/updating my sansa is because I do not have a pair of working headphones
03:41:55KEROLiUKAShaha
03:42:16KEROLiUKASI guess i'll listen in the car tomorow
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03:44:47KEROLiUKASI just found a pair of ipod headphones..they sound like poop
03:46:51KEROLiUKASand the right ear goes in and out..lol, messed up cable
03:48:24 Part Dhraakellian ("Meddle not in the affairs of ircops, for they are (not so) subtle, and quick to anger.")
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04:02:42KEROLiUKASoo fancy, pictureflow
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05:02:57Sparkeateris there a new bootloader for the h300 ?
05:03:36SparkeaterI'm wondering whether to just unzip the new rockbox or if there was a new bootloader I should get too...
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05:21:36Sparkeatercan someone have a look at this? it's regarding the superdom game.. http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/10964
05:21:49Sparkeaterit only let me put it in version 3.4
05:25:44JdGordonno
05:25:53JdGordonthe svn bootloader WILL brick your h300
05:25:57JdGordonuse the released one
05:28:00HillshumShould the we make the svn bootloader more idiot-proof or something?
05:30:13SparkeaterI wasn't going to try the svn, I was wondering if the install application came with a new one, but thanks
05:30:38Sparkeateralso how do I get that z-machine emulator going for text based fiction games? and where do I get the games?
05:33:32SparkeaterFrotz
05:33:52Sparkeatercould someone tell me what format the games come in?
05:34:03Sparkeateror where I can find them?
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05:35:09FlynDiceWould someone give this a quick look and tell me if the adds instruction is done the right way for the test? asm from dualboot.S −−> http://pastie.org/808858
05:35:16UnhelpfulSparkeater: http://www.google.com
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05:38:42Sparkeaterwhere do I unzip the english voice file?
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06:49:39CIA-8New commit by 03unhelpful (r24506): Move udiv32_arm.S into libdemac, as this divider is specialized for the APE codec and an optimized divider is already provided for general use in ...
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07:35:45S_a_i_n_twill lines beginning with "#" be ignored in an ".icons" file?
07:39:21JdGordontry it and see
07:39:23JdGordonI tihnk so
07:42:05S_a_i_n_tthanks...I read the wiki but it din't say either way.
07:44:28S_a_i_n_tthere's no way to display the "next track AA" is there? I know there's %?Cn (is next track aa present<y|n>), but there's no %Cn is there (display next track aa)?
07:45:00JdGordonno[t yet]
07:46:01S_a_i_n_tAh, that'd be awesome however.
07:47:49S_a_i_n_t I saw in a previous discussion you were having in my logs (a day or so ago perhaps) you mentioned opening up the possibility of AA as a background, and how it would be much loved...*agreed*
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08:01:20*Unhelpful doesn't understand why "being able to put other wps elements in front of AA" is such a big deal
08:02:12Unhelpfulespecially problematic is that you can't predict what the AA will look like, and therefore can't predict what color text will be readable over it... and if you black out a rectangle behind the text to ensure readability, why have it over the AA at all?
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08:10:04JdGordonmaybe if you have a solid backdrop for the text that is overlayed on the AA image it would look better
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08:18:08topikthanks for all the hard work and congrats on the new official release
08:22:18UnhelpfulJdGordon: meh, but why not just have it off of the aa image entirely, then?
08:23:55JdGordonto get better space usage?
08:26:41GodEaterI'm not against having AA as a possible background image - but I wouldn't use a theme that did it.
08:27:58*GodEater wonders if B4gder has started looking at the stats for RB 3.5 downloads yet
08:31:32*Unhelpful just really doesn't see the point
08:32:03JdGordonof release?
08:32:05JdGordonme neither :D
08:32:17Unhelpfulmind you, both of the targets own are portrait, and "huge AA with room for text" seems to be pretty much the only thing to justify portrait over landscape
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08:48:04Unhelpfulappropriate way to indicate that a generated file is being, um generated? i went with $(call PRINTS,GEN $(@F))<command>
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08:54:16pixelmaarch
08:54:36pixelmasorry, wrong window
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09:00:16UnhelpfulZagor: build system is "your" area, is it not? :)
09:00:25Zagoryes
09:02:05Unhelpfulsee a bit before you joined... i'm using $(call PRINTS,GEN $(@F))<command> for a generated file, does that seem appropriate? there will probably not be another file produced in the same way, so i didn't really think it merited its own perl script or something in functions.make
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09:06:01Unhelpfulyay, it works on a target that doesn't use this mechanism, too... and doesn't even build the ape codec twice, then.
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09:15:41GodEater
09:15:48GodEaterer, ooops
09:17:17Unhelpfulhrm, i guess we do already have some longer short descriptions... so no need to try to make it 2 letters like CC/PP/LD/AR
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09:20:11amiconnUnhelpful: *If* you're going to make the reciprocal table dynamic, we should also make the filter buffers dynamic (depending on the -c level)
09:20:58amiconnThis would need a simple, built-in iram malloc in the ape codec though :/
09:21:50Unhelpfulamiconn: it's only dynamic at compile time. making it dynamic at runtime would slow it down or complicate it substantially (you'd need to do X divisions to fill the table, you'd need to either modify the code of the divider or have it load the reciprocal table size)
09:22:38Unhelpfuli wasn't looking to make it do the best job possible on all -c levels, just to make it compile without manual adjustment when we change code or compilers
09:23:11amiconnhmm
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09:29:50Unhelpfuli have it working now... on targets with ARM_ARCH < 4 that use codec iram, udiv32_arm.S is initially compiled with recip_max = 2, which produces a zero-length table without changing code size. libdemac is then linked as libdemac-pre.a, the ape codec is linked as ape-pre.elf with a map file as ape-pre.map, which is processed to produce ape_free_iram.h. this is included when recompiling udiv32_arm.S, and then a new lidbemac.a and ape.codec
09:29:50Unhelpful are linked
09:30:27Unhelpfulonly udiv32_arm.S is compiled twice, only the library and codec are linked twice, and all three use a different name on each pass so that deps are not confused
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09:31:47Unhelpfulthere's some nasty stuff in udiv32_arm.S to convert the available free iram into a valid arm immediate <= the maximum possible table
09:32:47Unhelpfuland since all of the -pre stuff only appears as deps of ape_free_iram.h, it can be left out of the build on targets that don't need it just by making the include in udiv32_arm.S conditional
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09:35:25***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
09:39:01Unhelpfulit seems to work well, i built for ipodnano2g and the final ape.map shows only 64B of iram remaining
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09:45:42CIA-8New commit by 03unhelpful (r24507): Use all available codec iram for reciprocal table in APE codec on ARMv4. Done by linking first with the table empty to determine free space, then ...
09:55:38CIA-8New commit by 03unhelpful (r24508): Fix yellow: add newline at EOF in udiv32_arm-pre.S
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11:38:40Tornelinuxstb: i'm not thrilled by fs#10107 either but it seems better than *not* having it. I still hold out hope that we can work out a real solution.
11:41:45linuxstbTorne: I'm not sure I agree - I think I would prefer having to do a hard reset occasionally than getting a low-battery flash each time I shut down. It also seems the wrong approach on principle to use Apple code to shut down, instead of trying to do it ourselves - the bug wasn't _that_ important to fix.
11:42:56Torneoccasionally, maybe
11:43:08Tornebut for some people (including me) it was a third or even a half of the time
11:43:32Torneuntil i started using that method i couldn't turn my player on more than two or three times in a row without resetting it.
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11:44:02GodEaterlinuxstb: I can vouch for this, I saw torne's ipod.
11:44:07linuxstbWas that target-specific? I can't recall it being a big problem for me (on my ipod Color or 30GB 5g)
11:44:13TorneIt might've been
11:44:18Tornethat's why i put up that poll
11:44:19GodEatervery very odd though, because I only ever got the issue like three times in two years.
11:44:29Tornebut too few people responded to the poll for any model other than the Video to really be sure
11:44:35Torneprobably because a lot more people have a Video :)
11:44:37GodEaterTorne: wasn't yours the 80GB ipod video?
11:44:37linuxstbBut the commit was for all ipods?
11:44:44TorneGodEater: yes
11:44:49GodEaterso same model as mine then
11:44:55GodEaterand I barely ever got the problem
11:45:03Tornelinuxstb: all with the same PCF, yes
11:45:23Tornebecause the method does *work* on all of them, and none of the people who tested the patch *ever* had the problem afterward
11:45:26linuxstbMaybe it's also related to OF version.
11:45:34Tornealso possible
11:45:38GodEaterMy ipod is 1.2.3
11:45:42Tornemy todo list has "disassemble the bootloader" on it
11:45:58TorneGodEater: i'll check, i have it here
11:46:21GodEaterI think 1.3 is the last version apple shipped for the video
11:46:35linuxstbYes, 1.3 sounds familiar.
11:46:38Tornelinuxstb: anyway, i judged the cosmetic effect as pretty minor
11:46:40Tornemaybe it's not
11:46:53TorneYes, i have 1.3
11:46:59Torneso perhaps it is that
11:47:10Tornebut the poll showed it definately does occur on most if not all models
11:47:11GodEaterTorne: try downgrading?
11:47:12linuxstbTorne: To be honest, I haven't updated Rockbox on my ipod for a long time, so haven't seen the cosmetic effect. It just _sounds_ undesirable (and potentially confusing to users)
11:47:26Torneso unless they all had the bug introduced/fixed in some firmware version..
11:47:33Tornelinuxstb: i added a note to the manual :)
11:47:35GodEateralso, the cosmetic effect doesn't bother me really, I barely ever look at the ipod when it's shutting down.
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11:47:50Tornelinuxstb: the backlight is off when it displays it so if you aren't looking closely you won't even see it
11:48:00Tornelinuxstb: and it's a tiny symbol
11:48:04linuxstbTorne: Ah, OK. So it's not so bad then...
11:48:09Torneit's not the fullscreen low battery icon that the OF displays
11:48:16GodEaterno, it's miniscule
11:48:18Tornejust a greyscale bitmap in the center of the screen
11:48:30Tornethough it does linger a bit because the LCD gets powered off without being cleared
11:48:33Torneso it fades out slowly :)
11:49:20TorneI should probably bump disassembling the flash bootloader up my list
11:49:36Torneunless someone else has already done that somewhere and I just don't know?
11:49:58Torne(it is technically copyright violation to distribute a disassembly, after all)
11:49:59linuxstbI'm sure lots of people have disassembled it in parts over the years...
11:50:02TorneWell yes
11:50:58Tornei meant "who could send it to me" :)
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13:02:03dunghow stable/unstable is the ipod nano 2g port exactly? is it usable at all?
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13:11:16GodEaterdung: yes it's usable
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13:11:44GodEaterif it weren't we'd have it listed under "unsuabe" instead, no? :)
13:11:57GodEateror "unusable" even
13:12:42dungwell okay
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13:18:04Frampishehe, unsuable
13:18:04FrampisI guess you can't sue a firmware
13:19:42GodEaterI didn't even manage to make the typo *that* funny, as I missed the 'l' too
13:19:58Frampiswell yeah but I filled in the blank.
13:20:08Frampisgotta work with what you've got
13:21:28GodEaterwhich isn't much when you're dealing with me!
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13:26:31S_a_i_n_twho knows what it is exactly that's keeping the nano2g from 'stable'? is it still the odd NAND issues some people are having?
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13:33:27bongif I run the ipod nano 2g port, is there risk of serious problems like no playback or the ipod being mounted as read-only, or just minor problems like buggy scrolling or slightly less battery time?
13:33:51TorneThe FTL might get corrupted sometimes
13:34:04Tornewhich will mena you need to restore it and reinstall rockbox and re-copy your music.
13:34:13TorneFor many people this doesn't happen :)
13:34:30Torneshorter battery life etc don't count as "unstable"
13:34:30bongwhat's the FTL?
13:34:52Tornethe data that tells it how to access the flash
13:35:11bongokay, thanks
13:35:21bongif that's the worst that can happen I might as well try it
13:35:29***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:35:31Torneyes, it can't permanently damage the ipod
13:35:36Torneand playback should be reliable.
13:35:41bonggood
13:35:58Torneas long as you have a copy of your music somewhere else it's fine
13:36:05bongI'm a bit concerned because I'll have to buy a used nano for this, I don't have one
13:36:09Torneyou might want to back up the .rockbox folder as well occcasionally though
13:36:13bongalright
13:36:14Torneto preserve your settings
13:36:20Torne(saves you configuring it again)
13:36:42bongI suppose that if it doesn't work perfectly now, it will be better in a few months
13:36:52TorneHopefully
13:37:00TornePeople are investigating possible causes for the flash issues
13:37:06bongsounds great
13:37:08AlexPIf I were buying a player to run Rockbox it wouldn't be the nano 2nd gen
13:37:08bongthanks!
13:37:11bongoh
13:37:19Torneit only seems to affect some players so it may depend on which type of flash that specific nano has
13:37:29bongwhich player would be a better buy then?
13:37:31S_a_i_n_tthere's a fairly easy fix for the dircache/"safely remove hardware" data corruption
13:37:39AlexPIf you are buying a used one, there are other models that work much better
13:37:48TorneS_a_i_n_t: that's not the only way it can get corrupted, though, no?
13:37:51bongyeah I know the 1gen works great
13:38:05AlexPI'd get a Sansa e200 over an iPod
13:38:10AlexPiPod nano that is
13:38:15S_a_i_n_tist gen nano port rocks...and looks better IMO
13:38:24AlexPlooks better?
13:38:28*dionoea doesn't like the e200's buzzing sounds when buffering data
13:38:29S_a_i_n_ttorne: no, but one of the most common IIRC
13:38:37rasherTorne: That often turns out to be a red herring though, and simply a case of people doing different things (not that it *couldn't* be that of course)
13:38:42AlexPdionoea: Ah right, I don't hear that so always forget
13:38:42Tornethe flash based ipods are not very good compared to many of the other flash players
13:38:58bongthe thing with buying a nano 2g is that it's relatively easy to get hold of used
13:39:09bongI can't find a sansa player anywhere near me
13:39:25S_a_i_n_tAlexP: what I meant was, aesthetically, I prefer the 1st gen nano over the 2nd
13:39:30AlexPAh, OK
13:39:41dionoeaAlexP: how can you not hear it? :) (other than that I agree that the the e200 is a great dap)
13:40:09AlexPdionoea: Well, I don't use the e200 much (or at all really), but whenever I do I can't hear the buzzing
13:40:23*B4gder never heard the buzzing either
13:40:27S_a_i_n_t2nd gen nano port is starting to become noticably faster than the 1st gen port now...which is good
13:41:10dionoeaI use music on the miscrosd card. Maybe it doesn't happen with internal memory. I'll check that right now.
13:43:06bongalright, I think I'll invest in a nano 2g, it doesn't seem like anything too major is likely to happen
13:43:08bongthanks all
13:43:57S_a_i_n_tbong: even if it does, it's *REALLY* hard to kill an iPod...*almost* impossible.
13:44:29S_a_i_n_tdropping it in a cup full of coffee works quite well however....
13:44:31bongyeah, I'm not afraid that I'll render it unusable, just that I won't be able to play music through rockbox
13:44:57S_a_i_n_twell...mine 2 2g nano's run fine.
13:45:10S_a_i_n_twith only one small tweal to the standard code.
13:45:20S_a_i_n_ts/tweal/tweak/
13:45:53bongheh, I'll ask the community again if it turns out I need to tweak something
13:46:02*S_a_i_n_t cringes at "...mine 2 2g nano's"
13:46:24S_a_i_n_t*ahem*..."both my 2nd gen nanos work fine."
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13:50:16CIA-8New commit by 03teru (r24509): superdom: fix bug that "Human starting factories" setting is ignored (part of FS #10964). ...
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14:08:49koniiiikI need a little clarification regarding ipodpatcher...
14:10:37*gevaerts tries to find his crystal ball
14:12:03koniiiikI want to follow http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/IpodPatcher#2_OSOS_contains_Rockbox_and_the
14:12:21koniiiikHowever, it is not clear to me, how I should build the ipodpatcher from source.
14:12:40koniiiik(I just built the rest of rockbox.)
14:12:59pixelmaI believe whether you hear "disk" access on the e200 (c200 too) depends a bit on your exact device and other factors like headphones etc.
14:13:49pixelmaI can hear it on my c200 too but it only bothers me when there is no music playing
14:13:51gevaertskoniiiik: Torne knows the details, or possibly linuxstb
14:13:58koniiiikHmm...
14:14:01TorneYou don't need to build ipodpatcher
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14:14:23koniiiikOh...?
14:14:36Torneipodpatcher only uses the builtin bootloader if you run it with no arguments
14:14:41Tornebuild the bootloader yourself
14:14:48Torneand follow the instructoins, with any binary of ipodpatcher.
14:15:09Tornei really should release a new ipod bootloader :)
14:15:35dionoeaThe e200 buffering interference indeed doesn't happen when loading from internal memory. I guess that the fact that the microsd slot is just under the headphone jack explains it a bit
14:15:36Torneincidentally you *don't* need to build rockbox yourself for that method any more
14:15:38koniiiikOh. So I can use even an ipodpatcher without a builtin bootloader and tell it to use the one I just built?
14:15:45S_a_i_n_thow outdated is the release bootloader compared to svn?
14:15:54TorneAll version of rockbox since 3.4 include the required code in the main build
14:15:59S_a_i_n_tkoniiiik: yes
14:16:10koniiiikWell, I like to be up to date. (-: (-:
14:16:12TorneS_a_i_n_t: The only interesting/relevant change is my OSOS boot change
14:16:21S_a_i_n_tyou can even load original firmware files with it, surpassing the need for iTunes.
14:16:22Tornekoniiiik: yes, but you can just use a current build for that
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14:16:45Torneit's only the bootloader which isn't compiled for you :)
14:16:50koniiiikOkay.
14:16:52Tornewhich is why i should release a new one really
14:17:05Tornebut it's up to you, anyway, you cna use your own compiled build :)
14:17:25Tornei should update the wiki page
14:18:24koniiiikAll right, now... How do I use the new bootloader? ipodpatcher -a bootloader-ipodnano1g.ipod?
14:18:34S_a_i_n_tkoniiiik: iy's important to note that some "advanced ipodpatcher istall options" *require* you to use a user-built bootloader
14:18:41S_a_i_n_toption 3 IIRC
14:18:51TorneS_a_i_n_t: that's what he's doing.
14:19:14Tornekoniiiik: yes, just do a bootloader build by selecting bootloader in configure, and it will produce bootloader-yourmodel.ipod
14:19:18S_a_i_n_t./ipodpatcher.exe
14:19:22Tornethen follow the instructions.
14:19:39Torneyou can use any rockbox.ipod which is less than six months or so old.
14:19:41koniiiikTorne: Already done. (-;
14:19:46koniiiikHmm...
14:20:36Tornei'm going to update the wiki to explain better.
14:22:36TorneThere we go :)
14:22:52Tornewhen i wrote the instructions the code wasn't in the release, so it was important to specify
14:23:10Tornebut the code has been in svn for a long time and in 3.3, 3.4 and 3.5 so it doesn't matter what version peopl euse now really
14:23:15Torneas long as they build the bootloader from svn
14:23:50koniiiikOkay, thanks.
14:31:38koniiiikHmm, what was the button combination to make rockbox not reboot into disk mode then connected to USB?
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14:33:19S_a_i_n_ttorne: would it hurt to add the .ipodx nano2g stuff to the ipodpatcher wiki also?
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14:33:48S_a_i_n_tthe info on the nano2g port page is pretty scarce
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14:39:44webguest34hello everyone
14:41:16webguest34does anyone run rockbox on an 4G iPod?
14:42:14krazykitdo you have a specific question about it?
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14:44:52linuxstbwebguest34: I assume you mean the original 4th generation ipod (large form-factor with greyscale LCD) ?
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14:49:00webguest12hey linuxstp - yes i got the 4th grayscale version
14:49:28linuxstbWhat's your question?
14:50:10webguest12i installed rockbox on it, no problem at all - but it dont charge at my docking station
14:50:26webguest12is there any option to activate???
14:55:15linuxstbNo. That's a known issue with Rockbox on the ipod (or maybe just some ipods, including your's) - Rockbox either doesn't charge, or will charge very slowly. You will need to reboot into the Apple firmware (or emergency disk mode - hold SELECT+PLAY when booting) to charge.
14:57:12webguest12:( ok thanks
14:58:51gevaertswebguest12: if you use a release, it should automatically reboot to emergency disk mode when you plug it in
14:59:28gevaertslinuxstb: any opinions on committing that charging patch soon? I know it's not correct from a USB point of view, but are there other problems?
15:00
15:01:14linuxstbgevaerts: I don't know anything about it...
15:01:21gevaertsok :)
15:01:22Tornegevaerts: I was going to write up a proposal for how to fix that "properly"
15:01:28TorneS_a_i_n_t: yes, that could be added
15:01:48Tornegevaerts: but in brief, i think we should change the USB charging setting to a tristate
15:01:51Torneoff/on/force
15:02:13gevaertsah, sounds like a good solution
15:02:13Torneoff would do everything the target supports to not charge: either reduce to 100mA or turn it off entirely if possible
15:02:22Torneon would try and follow the usb spec (including the charging spec)
15:02:29Torneand force would try and suck up power regardless
15:02:39Torneexactly what that would mean for various targets would differ
15:02:52Tornebut it seems much more useful than a boolean
15:03:03Torneif we did that we could commit fs#8802 now, as the "force" optoin for ipods
15:03:15Torneand then work on proper usb charging support later (so "on" would behave the same as "off" for now)
15:03:41Torneor we could maybe jus thave "off/force" on ipod?
15:03:43Tornei dunno
15:03:47Tornebut you get the genreal idea/
15:04:02gevaertsI think that would be better for now, but yes, that's a detail
15:04:18Tornedoes the tristate sound like a good goal, at least?
15:04:27TorneThe code to obey usb charging in general would work on any target
15:04:32Torneonce someone writes it :)
15:04:53Torneyou'd just need the target-specific way of adjusting the charge controller behaviour (if it's a hw charger) or doing the right thing in the charging thread (if it's sw)
15:05:05Torneand maybe som etarget specific way of detecting D+/D- being shorted
15:05:14Tornewhich i'm pretty sure ipodvideo can do
15:05:22Torneas well as the apple charger detection?
15:05:28gevaertsI like the idea, yes
15:05:35Tornemost targets won't support that, but they can still do the right thing wrt. USB hosts
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15:06:03gevaertsI assume "force" would mean 500mA (if we can limit the thing), while proper charger detection could go higher
15:06:18Tornethat might have to depend on the target
15:06:31Torneafaik the ipods can't go above 500 anyway
15:06:42Torneat least hte PP ones don't
15:06:52Tornethe nano4g might be able to, since i'm pretty sure the touch can
15:07:17TorneSo, hm
15:07:22TorneI should write a patch for the setting
15:07:27Torneand see what people think, probably
15:07:55gevaertswell yes, this is again something that will depend on actual hardware features
15:08:14Torneright.
15:09:08Torneanyway, i think it's important to get the setting/ui right
15:09:19Tornebecause a lot of the issues we've discussed before could be solved that way
15:10:02TorneI think those three choices is what users are likely to want: "don't drain my laptop battery", "charge when it's safe", "charger detection doesn't work for me, please charge anyway" :)
15:10:09gevaertsI agree. Once that's done, the rest can be cleaned up in small bits
15:10:35Tornewhat should we do about targets that can't meaningfully support one of those at all? (obviously targets where we have no choice don't need a setting)
15:10:54gevaertsI'd leave out the option then
15:11:05TorneHm. That could be fun to ifdef. :)
15:11:25*gevaerts is sure that Torne can handle it :)
15:11:29Tornei shall write a proposed UI/setting patch, then, and solicit feedback
15:11:43Torneand while i'm at it see if anyone knows what the capabilities of our platforms are
15:11:56Torneatm only nano2g, h300 and gigabeat s have any kind of charging "control" that I know of
15:12:08Tornethe others just do whatever
15:12:18Torneeither because the hardware doesn't give us any choice or because nobody knows how or has bothere d;)
15:15:18S_a_i_n_ttorne: I'd be happy to test whatever you come up with on my nanos if need be, 1st/2nd gen
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15:45:12TorneS_a_i_n_t: well the first pass isn't going to *do* anything :)
15:45:22Torneit'll just be a setting that doesn't work ;)
15:45:34Tornenano2g already has charging control implemented using hte current off/on setting
15:45:41Tornethough i don't recall offhand exactly what off and on mean for nano2g
15:45:58Torneif it's like the other ipods then off means "only charge slowly" and on means "charge quickly regardless of safety"
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15:53:47CIA-8New commit by 03teru (r24510): keyboard: make some parts of kbd_input into separate functions.
15:54:46amiconnTorne, linuxstb, GodEater: The low-bat shutdown problem affected the Mini G2 a lot
15:55:11amiconnNow there's the odd low-bat icon *at shutdown*, but power-on seems to be fixed
15:55:41amiconnI also had it happen on the Photo as well, but not as often
15:56:28Torneyah
15:56:39Tornei think the user who was asking just overstated the shutdown cosmetic thing
15:56:51Torneit *is* slihgtly weird but it's not super noticable. and I did put a manual note about it :)
15:56:57Tornebecause all users will read that, naturally :)
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16:44:18webguest_ipodHow I can do it?
16:44:25webguest_ipodHi, I want to change boot logo in Rockbox 3.5 on iPod 5G.
16:44:30webguest_ipodThis is my handmade pic: http://bayimg.com/image/hakdoaacd.jpg
16:45:01webguest_ipodPlease help. :)
16:46:21gevaertsconvert it to bmp, put it in the right place in the source, and recompile
16:46:52webguest_ipodunder win32 is it possible? where is right place for it? thanks!
16:48:55 Quit ender` (Quit: It's not English. It's legalese, a completely different language which looks confusingly similiar.)
16:49:16linuxstbwebguest_ipod: Firstly you need to be able to build your own (unmodified) version of Rockbox. Then you can start modifying it. See here - http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/DocsIndex#For_Developers (e.g. the SimpleGuideToCompiling page).
16:51:04webguest_ipodlinuxstb, OK, thanks for your help! I'll try to do it.
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17:33:48FlynDiceI'm figuring out buttons for clip+ and looking for ways to proceed. I've found some on GPIOA. There's a .pdf attached to this forum post with my findings −−> http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=14064.msg161676#msg161676
17:35:36***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:37:12dionoeaat least you know what buttons you can easily use in the bootloader :)
17:40:15FlynDiceYes, but I was hoping someone may have already figured this out and could save some time.... I hate to find out I have just been reinventing the wheel after 4 hours of work... ;-)
17:40:45FlynDicenot the button, the process...
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17:44:50FlynDiceAch, nevermind, found a funman post that gives me a clue
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17:58:31S_a_i_n_tUI Viewport (set in a theme.cfg) is in the format of ui viewport: x|y|forground|background| <-is this correct?
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18:00:20AlexPI don't think so
18:00:34AlexPIt uses different separators IIRC
18:01:01S_a_i_n_tah...do you know gow it *is* specified? I couldn;t really find anything about it on the wiki
18:01:09S_a_i_n_tis it comma seperated?
18:01:14AlexPI can't remember
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18:03:44Torneis it compatible to change a bool setting to an int setting?
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18:05:59Torneaha i have a better idea.
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18:31:13CIA-8New commit by 03Domonoky (r24511): sync asap codec to ASAP 2.1
18:33:14JdGordonAlexP: still waiting for the broken theme :)"
18:33:29AlexPJdGordon: Sorry, I forgot. I'll do it now
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18:52:22AlexPJdGordon: Menu looks like this http://aeparker.com/files/menu.bmp the time at the top and the section at the bottom are .sbs The UI viewport is in the black box. This is the wps background http://aeparker.com/files/wpsbackdrop.bmp which should draw over the backdrop.
18:52:22AlexPThis is what the wps actually looks like http://aeparker.com/files/wps-glitch.bmp and here is the theme http://aeparker.com/files/theme.zip First suspicions would be an error in the theme somewhere :)
18:53:04AlexPscreenshots taken with r24511
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18:56:15gevaertshm, http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=23816.0 seems to indicate that I did something wrong
18:58:15JdGordonAlexP: ok, im just about heading off to work. ill have a look tonight if i get a chance
18:58:23AlexPJdGordon: Cheers :)
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19:04:36linuxstbgevaerts: IIUC, the e200r main build (and therefore voice files) are the same as the e200 - so there have never been specfic main builds or voice files for the e200r. But it looks like there are 3.5 voice files for the "e200r" (but no main build).
19:04:46 Quit stoffel (Remote host closed the connection)
19:05:06linuxstbSo I think the solution is to delete the e200r voice files, and tell that user to just use the e200 voice files (to match the e200 main build he/she is using)
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19:07:49gevaertshm, could be. That might need some rbutil adjustments maybe?
19:07:51linuxstbbluebrother: What does rbutil do when it sees an e200r? Will it reject it completely, or does it allow a main build/voice/themes/etc to be installed?
19:08:33linuxstbdomonoky: (same question to you!)
19:09:32domonokylinuxstb: rbutil doesnt know e200r, dont know what autodetection does, if you connect one.
19:10:11linuxstbIf sansapatcher is used, it won't recognise an e200r (no firmware partition visible over USB)
19:10:21linuxstbI don't know what USB IDs it has.
19:10:36gevaertsthis is an upgrade though
19:11:01domonokyit should use sansapatcher, so it juts wont find anything.
19:11:15linuxstbBut could a user then override it and say it's an e200?
19:11:46domonokyif the user did the e200r to e200 conversion manually, it should work just like a normal e200.
19:12:11linuxstbYes, but then it's not an e200r...
19:12:19domonokythe user can always override, if he wants. (not for sansapatcher/ipodpatcher) but for everything else.
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19:13:27domonokyso we can savely remove the e200r voicefile. If rockbox runs, it will be a normal e200.
19:13:53 Quit liar_ (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
19:14:17linuxstbgevaerts: But someone else also mentioned that the 3.5 download page includes a link to a non-existent e200r build. The manual link goes to the e200 manual, and the voice file is the e200r one.
19:14:49*gevaerts used the provided scripts to do the builds. He doesn't claim to understand any of it!
19:15:36linuxstbThen we can blame Zagor's target renaming, especially as he isn't here... ;)
19:15:47gevaertsexcellent solution!
19:17:12linuxstbI'm guessing it could just be deleted from builds.pm ?
19:17:18linuxstbs/it/the e200r/
19:22:26linuxstbGodEater: (Re: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=23804.0 ) - I'm guessing bluebrother meant that if you are upgrading Rockbox, the old rockbox-info.txt will contain the old target name, and rbutil will try to install a build with a new target name.
19:24:27GodEaterthen he should probably say so
19:24:38linuxstbYes ;)
19:24:46GodEaterI hadn't got a clue what he was on about, and I think it's a bit much to expect forum members to just know that.
19:25:28GodEaternot knowing the architecture of rbutil intimately, I had no idea it relied on a file on the dap to tell it what to install
19:26:06linuxstbWell, I'm only guessing.... I agree it's not at all clear what's going on.
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19:29:28GodEaterwell your explanation at least makes some sense and (if it were in the thread) would give the user something to check, rather than just scoffing at them
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19:31:28linuxstbGodEater: I'm only guessing, so I'll let bluebrother explain in the thread.
19:32:02linuxstbIt does seem an undesirable way to handle a target name change, if that's indeed the case.
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19:34:10GodEateryes, there should be an rbutil version stamp in the txt file in that case, which rbutil should check, and if there's a mismatch, it should then proceed to ignore the file's content
19:34:19GodEateror something
19:35:01GodEaterand also, this now gives lie to the claim that rbutil doesn't need its own manual
19:35:07GodEaterit clearly does
19:35:18linuxstbOr "simply" have a "previous name" in the rbutil.ini file, so that an upgrade from that won't give an error.
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19:36:13*GodEater points to his "or something" ;)
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19:44:40*domonoky points out that the "target mismatch" message in rbutil is just a warning.
19:45:33domonokyrbutil compares the target name in rockbox-info.txt (if it exists) with the target name which it is going to install..
19:45:58domonokythis is to protect to accidently install wrong builds, if you update several different devices.
19:46:38domonokyso as we changed the target names, it will warn on those targets which are now differently named.
19:47:03GodEaterdomonoky: it may be "just a warning" to you and I - but it's a scarey message for our users, and bluebrother's reply didn't really make that clear to the poor chap in the forums.
19:47:19domonokytrue
19:47:42GodEatermy complaint is not about rbutil's functionality, merely the way the user has been told off for reporting it's behaviour
19:47:56domonokybut implementing a "previous name" isnt worth the effort.. it only applys to some targets and only for one update.
19:48:03GodEaterthis time...
19:48:17GodEaterI shall remind you you said that next time ;)
19:48:23domonokybut the error report is equally bad :-)
19:48:24*GodEater scribbles this down somewhere to remind himself
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20:08:57jobecbertrik: after rerunning the battery test, the result was practically identical to the previous. also with r24506 within 2mins
20:10:47linuxstbdomonoky: What's wrong with the error report? It says "target mismatch", but there isn't...
20:11:36domonokylinuxstb: not enough info. which target, which OS and i want a system trace, as i just posted :-)
20:12:28domonokysaying "it doesnt work" as in his first post, is always a bad error report :-)
20:13:47linuxstbdomonoky: Your reply still doesn't clarify the issue though. i.e. that the "mismatch" is between the target name rbutil is currently using, and the target name in the installed rockbox-info.txt. (what's been discussed here, but not in that thread)
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20:15:02domonokythats only technical detail. it happens because we renamed them, and he can ignore it. That should be enough.
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20:46:07bluebrotherlinuxstb: I could have been clearer in my forums post. Something I want to implement since long is some startup "what changed since the last release" message box that could tell the user about exactly such issues.
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20:46:31*bluebrother should actually start working on that
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20:51:58bluebrotherdoes anyone know about a program that allows posting to some pastebin service from the command line?
20:52:27gevaertspastebinit?
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20:54:31linuxstbbluebrother: Wouldn't it be better to avoid such issues? (e.g. in this case to have kept track of "previous target name") ?
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20:55:28AlexPbluebrother: wgetpaste
20:56:17bluebrotherlinuxstb: well, is the added complexity really worth it? IMO just giving an unavoidable notice about it would be enough
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20:57:54linuxstbbluebrother: If it avoids incorrect error messages, I would say it's worth it. But as I don't contribute to rbutil, it's up to you... ;)
20:59:19bluebrothergevaerts, AlexP: nice, was searching exactly something like that :)
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21:06:06bluebrotherdomonoky: I've done a "show disabled" checkbox. Thoughts? http://pastebin.com/f27c69521
21:09:49domonokylooks fine. Maybe change the wording in the user text a bit.
21:10:36domonoky"Disabled targets are not recommended for end users"
21:10:53domonokyor ".. only for Developers"
21:11:07bertrikjobec, thanks for re-testing
21:12:31linuxstbWhat are "disabled targets" ?
21:14:02bluebrotherlinuxstb: some targets are marked as disabled in rbutil.ini, which makes them disappear from the configuration. This is used for targets that have some kind of support in rbutil which is in a state that isn't considered sufficient for end users
21:14:47bluebrotherone example is the D2: as it requires to handle two drives (which rbutil doesn't handle yet) its installation is ... well, nothing you can figure without additional info
21:15:18linuxstb"Experimental targets" ?
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21:16:29bluebrotheryeah, could be named that way.
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21:20:12CIA-8New commit by 03amiconn (r24512): Put back the insane buffer where it belongs on non-ARM, and simplify the selection.
21:23:02bertrikjobec, I still don't know what causes my clip battery runtime to be so much longer than yours and funman's
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21:32:33bertrikI'm reading a thread now on the sandisk forums that suggest that 2GB clips suffer from bad battery relatively often
21:35:42***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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21:45:20FlynDiceHow do I revert changes to the wiki?
21:46:49JdGordon_the history page lets you do it i tinhk
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21:50:01FlynDiceWell that's what I've been looking at and I can't seem to figure it out :/
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21:55:17*amiconn would like to see new performance figures for APE on Nano 2nd Gen, Gigabeat F/X and Clip (all those are ARMv4)
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22:01:34jobecbertrik: i'm not sure it's only the battery since OF runs almost 3x the time. and 15h with that small unit is quite nice, in my opinion
22:03:07bertrikjobec, I hope it's a bug in rockbox, that's something we can fix ! :P
22:03:39bertrikI'll run another bench tonight, but with very latest SVN for both firmware and bootloader
22:04:37bertrikamiconn, how can I help to do that? is there a "standard" ape file that I can use for that? I suppose I have to enable the codec_test plugin
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22:05:38bertrikI'm seeing ape high and ape normal files on http://download.rockbox.org/test_files/
22:09:53amiconnHmm. These aren't the test files I'm using
22:10:22CIA-8New commit by 03bluebrother (r24513): Add option to show disabled targets in the configuration dialog. ...
22:11:13amiconnIt might be a good idea to use those instead - I need to redo my tests with them and check whether the results are different
22:12:01amiconnWe also need all 5 compression levels (of the current format version - I don't think the older version is that interesting)
22:13:34bertrikamiconn, I have no idea if those on download.rockbox.org are any good, those are just the only ones I know about
22:14:45amiconnI can recompress them as necessary - it's just that we need a track that we can legally distribute, and it needs to be lossless to start with
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22:22:17amiconnB4gder: ping
22:38:09B4gder hey
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22:42:14amiconnB4gder: I have some files to put into http://download.rockbox.org/test_files/
22:42:28amiconnWhat do I need to do to get them there?
22:42:54B4gdergimme a URL for them or similar
22:43:04B4gderand I'll get them there
22:43:38amiconnOk. I'm uploading them to my webspace atm - a local url would be slow
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22:50:06anewusercongrats on a new release
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22:51:04AlexPcheers
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22:59:00amiconnHmm, test_codec has a bug :(
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23:00:02amiconnIf the device shuts down (idle timeout) without leaving the plugin first, the logfile ends up having 0 bytes
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23:20:32amiconnbertrik: New testfiles are up on download.rockbox.org (might take a while before they show up, depending on which mirror you end up on)
23:21:08amiconnI'm currently running tests on PP, coldfire and the beast; differences to the old results are minimal though
23:21:31bertrikok, I might be able to test tonight
23:21:59Strife89|DesktopWhat's being tested? I have only ARM targets.
23:22:17amiconnThe new files are named by the numerical comptression levels (ape_c1000.ape thru ape_c5000.ape)
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23:29:33*Strife89|Desktop will run informal tests on his targets later on.
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23:31:17*JdGordon_ will put his through rigorous trial by fire exams!
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23:43:10bertrikamiconn, those files may be too big to test on clip (I just tried one of the old ones)
23:44:23amiconnHmm. The clip doesn't have 32MB RAM?
23:44:34bertrikno, it has 2 MB IIRC
23:44:34JdGordon_2MB
23:44:36amiconnI wonder how the old test was done then
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23:45:07amiconnhttp://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SoundCodecMonkeysAudio Sansa Clip(250MHz ARMv4) r21234
23:45:44amiconnDoes test_codec work at all on the clip? If yes, what's the file size limit?
23:46:06bertrikfunman did those according to the history
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23:48:07bertrikI don't know what the file size limit it. I probably won't be testing any tonight anymore.
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23:49:41saratogaamiconn: about 350KB IIRC
23:51:03saratogai recommending testing on a fuze where its closer to 6MB or so
23:54:52*Strife89|Desktop has a Fuze.
23:55:09Strife89|DesktopI'll follow the wiki page after I get back on campus.
23:55:15saratogai started trying to fix test_codec a while ago but haven't had time to do much of anything
23:55:18Strife89|DesktopI'll have about an hour to spare.
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