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#rockbox log for 2010-03-16

00:01:48CIA-5New commit by 03funman (r25209): Sansa Clipv2: use similar button driver to Clipv1 ...
00:05:02 Quit Adubb (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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00:27:33***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:28:31 Quit komputes (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
00:34:49 Quit ender` (Quit: If you eat a live toad first thing in the morning, nothing worse will happen all day long.-- California saying;To you or the toad.-- Niven's restatement;well, most of the time anyway ...-- programmer's caveat)
00:35:08scorchewho is around?...i got a mail telling me that we really need to beef up our ideas list
00:35:43scorchei am about to drive for 6 hours, but we need a beefed up ideas list in 24-hours ish
00:36:55JdGordonapart from the mr someoneones todo list we dont really have much
00:37:48scorchewell, we need more stuff up there...and it would be nice to perhaps fill out some of the plans as well - along the lines of suggested places to look for reference, etc
00:38:40scorchetake some stuff from that list...either way, we need to beef it up, or we likely wont get in this year
00:42:19 Join evilnick_B [0] (~0c140464@rockbox/staff/evilnick)
00:42:32mt2usb driver for AMS ?
00:43:47 Join komputes [0] (~komputes@ubuntu/member/komputes)
00:43:48 Quit m3dlg (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
00:45:27soapproper ebook reader
00:45:57soapbasic XHTML engine
00:46:46scorchekeep in mind that saying stuff here is well and good, but it needs to be on the wiki
00:48:37mt2I don't know how feasible it would be, but how about an offline wikipedia reader, which could be synced through rbutil ?
00:50:35 Nick Connor_ is now known as Connor1 (~Connor@ip72-204-35-60.fv.ks.cox.net)
00:52:53 Quit Adubb ()
00:54:38scorchei think we have a lot of decent ideas already in the ideas page to be honest - it just really needs to fleshing out
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00:58:42 Join Casainho [0] (~chatzilla@bl15-106-77.dsl.telepac.pt)
00:59:11Casainhohello :-)
00:59:15scorchelike pointers for starting to research the ideas, expanding a bit on what it might take to complete it, likely need-to-know skills (Familiarity with C, Basic GUI, interaction, and usability design, etc), something else...adding ideas is always good though
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00:59:40CasainhoI would like to know how Rockbox speech works... does it convert text to speech on real time?
01:00
01:00:32Casainhobecause I am thinking if I could make a device without LCD... to be cheap, simple, less power usage
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01:02:00ChrononCasainho: Rockbox uses pre-generated voice clips.
01:02:44CasainhoChronon: oh... so no change of removing LCD... thanks Chronon
01:04:03stripwaxCasainho - there is a GSOC project to integrate a simple realtime text-to-speech engine into rockbox, however. (iirc).
01:04:37Casainhostripwax: and isn't there any dev code? any experimental code?
01:04:57stripwaxnot yet, I don't think. because I don't believe the project started yet...
01:06:37Casainhostripwax: what is your guess about this? will it be able in 1 year?
01:06:59Casainhook, I see it listed here: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SummerOfCode2010#Text_to_Speech_in_core
01:07:32stripwaxYou could always do the same as what rockbox does now, and pre-generated the voice clips, no?
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01:09:07 Join saratoga [0] (~9803c6dd@gateway/web/freenode/x-ibvmgvazklykrjdi)
01:09:43Casainhostripwax: no, I guess users would not like to have to do that... as user I want to put the music files inside a SD Card and be able to listen them immediately
01:11:11Casainhothere are some cheap players on market without LCD... I think Apple have one also...
01:12:05saratogaI'll just make Rockbox as an application a heading and then add several possible targets
01:14:00stripwaxCasainho - only recently has the ipod shuffle been able to voice menus - and I don't believe it voices files (but I could be wrong, I don't have one) - if it does voice filenames, I imagine it's because iTunes (i.e. the media sync application) pregenerates them.
01:14:59stripwaxCasainho - I would be surprised if users would not like to generate voice files (as users do exactly that, today). Regardless of whether the player has an lcd or not. (Since the voice files are generated on a pc application)
01:15:22Casainhostripwax: ok, nice to know.
01:15:51stripwaxI mean for rockbox. for apple/itunes, I really don't know, to be honest (but I would guess it happens in itunes)
01:16:06stripwax(if files are voiced at all, and not just menus voiced)
01:17:17Casainhostripwax: ok. I prefer a system where I copy music files directly from PC... −− well, then I will forgot this idea of going without LCD :-)
01:17:48Casainhothanks :-)
01:17:50Casainhobye bye
01:17:52 Quit Casainho (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6/20100115133306])
01:20:10stripwax?
01:21:43saratogawiki improved
01:21:49saratogafeel free to add things
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01:24:19saratogai proposed 11 of 19 total GSOC projects
01:24:27saratogapresumably other people have some ideas for rockbox as well
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01:33:05 Quit froggymana (Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout))
01:33:11saratogathere up to 15 ideas
01:33:13saratogaowned
01:34:01saratogadid the site just go down
01:35:03saratogaah now its back
01:49:49 Join moos [0] (moos@rockbox/staff/moos)
01:54:10CIA-5New commit by 03MOOS (r25210): Fix a typo on a comment
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02:00
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02:16:11CIA-5New commit by 03moos (r25211): Update the french translation.
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02:27:37***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:42:33CIA-5New commit by 03moos (r25212): Update the slovak translation: ...
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03:08:39checkerif i preceed the playlist-viewer tag (%Vp) with "%ac" will it align it in the center? (%ac%Vp|...|...|...|)
03:11:07CIA-5New commit by 03funman (r25213): mkamsboot: update for Clipv1 OF v01.01.35 (tested)
03:11:20checkeror can i put the "%ac" tag before Id3 tags inside the id3 section?
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03:37:07checkerif the statusbar is enabled on the WPS, all viewport locations are measured from the bottom of that, correct?
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04:02:11saratogaif anyone here knows visual studio, could they ping me tomorrow? i need to update the windows tremor vs project to have a couple new c and h files I made
04:02:15saratogaand I don't know VS
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04:17:04saratogawhat does it mean when the first make always fails, but doing a make clean and then rerunning make fixes it
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04:18:51RadicalRhello all.
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04:27:40***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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05:00
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05:12:19NewBie1122Rockbox does not support album art embedded in your files tags,why?
05:13:09S_a_i_n_tBecause no-one has coded support for it yet
05:13:45S_a_i_n_tand because its not a big deal to simply put "Folder.jpg" in each album dir
05:14:21S_a_i_n_tIf you use WMP, all you need to do is drag&drop...as WMP uses Folder.jpg for its AA too.
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05:17:45saratogawell also because its annoying to handle for mp3
05:18:00saratogafor other formats mostly just that no one has done it
05:19:05S_a_i_n_tI only figured out recently that the AA parser was case insensitive...
05:19:09NewBie1122S_a_i_n_t, thanks,i got some files from itunes store.which part of the source code deal with album art?
05:19:15S_a_i_n_tthat made my life a WHOLE lot easier
05:19:43saratogaS_a_i_n_t: its probably just that FAT is case insensitive
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05:21:07S_a_i_n_tNewBie1122: trust me, it'll be a whole lot easier to just put a folder in .rockbox called albumart and then put "albumname.jpg" or "filename.jpg" in it.
05:21:58S_a_i_n_tseeing as how itunes has that insane habit of putting files here there and everywhere...in non human readable dir names.
05:23:21NewBie1122S_a_i_n_t, that is true,thanks.i will do that.
05:24:13S_a_i_n_tHave you looked in the manual? the section "Albumart" has all the possible naming schemes/locations for AA listed there.
05:26:14NewBie1122S_a_i_n_t, i know that.I just wonder why rockbox does not read the embedded AA
05:27:35S_a_i_n_tsaratoga said this before you re-joined:
05:27:36S_a_i_n_t[17:18] <saratoga> well also because its annoying to handle for mp3
05:27:37S_a_i_n_t[17:18] <saratoga> for other formats mostly just that no one has done it
05:27:57saratogai said it after he joined
05:28:51S_a_i_n_tah, so you did..my mistake.
05:30:39NewBie1122ok.
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05:47:27CIA-5New commit by 03saratoga (r25214): Change various CPU_ARM defines to _ARM_ASSEM_ to be more consistent with the rest of Tremor.
05:47:31q0_0panyone here can help me with itouch restoring it is giving me 1604 error
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05:50:11S_a_i_n_tq0_0p: Errr...this is a Rockbox channel...
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05:50:39S_a_i_n_t*maybe* someone in #rockbox-community can help you.
05:50:48q0_0pthx
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05:50:55S_a_i_n_tbut your question would be offtopic here.
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06:00
06:00:17S_a_i_n_tI've got an idea I think could make charging on the iPods a little easier (or slightly more clear to the user)...Here goes:
06:00:21S_a_i_n_tWhen you hold down menu (to insert the dock connector etc.), after X period of time (say 5 seconds or so) you get a splash screen saying "Insert Dock Connector Now" (or similar) and it should no longer be necessary to hold down the menu key, of course inserting the connector should clear this screen so normal function can resume. Pressing any other key should clear this screen also (if it is enabled by accident), and it should time out after X period if
06:01:30S_a_i_n_tThoughts anyone?
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06:02:52JdGordonle suck!
06:03:27S_a_i_n_t...really?
06:03:46JdGordonyou only need to hold the button when its being connected, so why make it longer/harder than it already is?
06:03:57S_a_i_n_tTo me at least, the quickscreen doesn't make it immediately apparent that you can insert the charger.
06:04:42 Quit notByan (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
06:05:17S_a_i_n_tAnd if you mess it up you can end up fucking up your quickscreen settings.
06:05:55S_a_i_n_tI thought it was a good idea at least (I have them occasionally), but I do see your point.
06:12:26S_a_i_n_tJdGordon: "Shutting down", the database init stuff, the occasional "Scanning Disk" on startup.
06:12:35S_a_i_n_tthose are all in sysfont for me :/
06:12:48JdGordonwhat rev?
06:13:08S_a_i_n_t25139
06:13:11JdGordonshutting down especially shold be user font. the startup ones were broken for a while but sholld be fixed
06:13:16S_a_i_n_tnano1%2g
06:13:31S_a_i_n_t1&2g rather.
06:14:00S_a_i_n_tShould I make a flyspray entry?
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06:15:08JdGordonna, just go fix it :D
06:16:04*S_a_i_n_t thinks that you don't want me messing 'found in the source files :P
06:16:15S_a_i_n_tNot in *your* tree anyway :P
06:16:28S_a_i_n_ts/found/round/
06:17:56JdGordoninteresting... not localised either
06:19:02S_a_i_n_t....buh? You mean its broken on all targets?
06:19:52JdGordonstuff like this wouldnt only break on one target
06:19:53S_a_i_n_tI've personally never seen any of the splashes in userfont, thats why I asked if it was possible.
06:27:43***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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07:43:06JdGordonhaha wtf is up with scrollwheel on RTL langs?
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07:47:22pixelmaJdGordon: about the radio skin patch - I wouldn't call the theme settings entry "FM Radio" too, maybe "Radio Skin" or so. Guess you wanted to reuse the string but I find it misleading
07:47:37JdGordonok
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08:06:20S_a_i_n_tAdded FS #11113 - Splash Screens are Sysfont instead of Userfont
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08:18:25amiconnS_a_i_n_t: Btw, rockbox doesn't do anything special for AA case insensitivity, since (V)FAT(32) is case insensitive by design
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08:27:46***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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08:30:31topikdoes anyone know what WPS parsing failure 'font 15 not specified' means and/or how to resolve it?
08:31:56JdGordon1it means you are specifiying font 15 in the wps somewhere
08:31:57S_a_i_n_tit means you've used an identifier for a font that isn't specified correctly.
08:33:06S_a_i_n_ttopik: it could also mean that you've left out the ".fnt" from the %Fl line.
08:33:30topikmy wps doesn't have any font definitions
08:33:52S_a_i_n_tcan you pastebin the WPS somewhere for me please?
08:33:56S_a_i_n_tI'll have a look.
08:34:00topikhttp://themes.rockbox.org/index.php?themeid=250&target=ipodnano2g
08:34:39S_a_i_n_twhere are you getting this error?
08:34:42S_a_i_n_tin a sim?
08:34:55topikit says 'Doesn't work with current build' on that page
08:35:10topikand if you hover the 'current build' link, you get that message as tooltip
08:37:04S_a_i_n_tI'm having a look at the WPS code now.
08:37:14S_a_i_n_tNo promises I'll spot it though ;)
08:37:28 Join scorche [0] (~scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
08:38:08S_a_i_n_tyou've fucked up on line 47 in your WPS
08:38:14S_a_i_n_tassuming it is yours...
08:38:32S_a_i_n_t%V|8|116|55|15|15|ffffff|000000|
08:38:57S_a_i_n_twow...that was pretty easy :D
08:39:06*S_a_i_n_t pats himself on the back.
08:39:28topikthat references 'font 15' ?
08:39:52S_a_i_n_tyes, x,y,width,height,font
08:40:08S_a_i_n_tit should be 1
08:40:16S_a_i_n_tyou've used 15 instead
08:40:23topik1 being the first loaded font?
08:40:32S_a_i_n_t1 being userfont
08:40:36S_a_i_n_t0 being sysfont
08:40:41S_a_i_n_tas its always been.
08:41:09topikhehe, no need to rub it :) thanks for the help.
08:41:18S_a_i_n_tif you want it to work it should be %V|8|116|55|15|1|ffffff|000000| instead of %V|8|116|55|15|15|ffffff|000000|
08:41:37S_a_i_n_tno worries, I wasn't trying to be a smartass :P
08:41:58S_a_i_n_tIt just comes naturally :P
08:42:11topikyes, i think i replaced a bit too eagerly when i adapted the original theme to nano dimensions
08:42:20topikit has worked until very recently though
08:42:41S_a_i_n_tI *really* don't know how it did...
08:42:52S_a_i_n_tthe theme sit should have rejected it.
08:42:56topik'works with 3.5' it says too
08:42:56S_a_i_n_t*site
08:43:22topikthere are more themes with similar failings
08:43:44S_a_i_n_tcheckwps should have caught that...I'm sure of it.
08:43:47topiknow i'll go figure out how to reupload it
08:44:26S_a_i_n_tthe reason a lot of themes are "don't work with current build" is that they may use multifont, and the syntax changed slightly.
08:44:46S_a_i_n_tAnd probably a few more recent changes I can't think of immediately.
08:45:28S_a_i_n_ttopik: If you upload it with the *exact* same credentials as the first time, it'll ask if you want to replace the theme :D
08:45:28topikthemesite seems to be running on a gameboy or something
08:45:41S_a_i_n_tthat's same theme name, email address etc.
08:46:00topikdb error
08:46:02topikhow rude
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08:51:34topiki wonder how many attempts it will take me to guess the email address i used
08:52:20S_a_i_n_ta themesite admin *should* be able to tell you which addres was used to upload it...
08:52:28S_a_i_n_tif there's one around.
08:52:57*amiconn wonders about the sporadic binsize jumps happening recently
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08:53:37amiconnRight now there's one visible for the Gigabeat F. -/+ 5.7K of RAM, for an unrelated commit?
08:54:01amiconnThere was another one visible on a different target last weekend
08:54:25topikall i get is a message it already exists, no message if i want to replace/update
08:55:22topikis there a themesite admin available who can help me out please?
08:55:29S_a_i_n_tthere should be a tickbox asking if youd like to replace the theme
08:55:48S_a_i_n_taround the top left of the "this theme exists" page.
08:56:48topikunfortunately it's playing hard to get
08:57:50 Nick part_ is now known as part (~part@atari.org)
08:58:51S_a_i_n_tIf you catch them at the right time, you can get a theme admin to take it down.
08:59:44topiklooking for a list of operatives in that category atm
08:59:52S_a_i_n_tOr you could leave a message here of "Hey my name is X, my email is X_at_X_dotcom, I'm the author of X, could someone please take it down"
09:00
09:00:18S_a_i_n_tsomeone will see it in the logs and do it for you.
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09:04:29amiconnbluebrother: Does rbutil use voice.pl, or does it otherwise apply the same spelling corrections for various tts languages and vendors as voice.pl?
09:09:27*rasher idly wonders if it might make sense for the manual to use english.lang for interface strings
09:09:43JdGordon1that sounds like a nightmare to make work
09:10:48*rasher will wait for someone who actually knows about the manual to comment
09:12:38rasherI don't really see why it'd be so problematic. There are already "constants" in use. A file with such constants could easily be generated from a lang file
09:14:02rasherJust needs a new output mode in genlang
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09:15:23rasherAnd it'd be fairly trivial to cook up a script to trayl through the manual source for strings that are in the lang file
09:15:31rasherTrawl.
09:17:26pixelmarasher: would be nice for a menu overview with the translated strings (showing both your language and the english, so you know what you look for in the manual if you use a different language) - as was discussed a few weeks agp
09:17:32pixelmaago too
09:18:27pixelmamaybe it also helps brushing up the chapters in the manual
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09:27:27ZagorI'm a little surprised that even after my mail to both lists, there is still 4 build clients that haven't been restarted
09:28:55JdGordon1is that 4 still trying to connect or is that 4 which havnt come back online yet?
09:29:43Zagor4 that continously try to connect
09:39:26scorcheNote to all waking devs: please help flesh out ideas on our GSoC ideas list...add some places to seek research for, expand upon the ideas a bit, go into more detail, etc
09:39:52scorcheif this isnt done, we dont stand a very good chance at getting into GSoC this year
09:40:31Zagorreally?
09:41:00scorcheyes
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09:43:52Mode"#rockbox +o scorche" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
09:44:22Topic"Please read before speaking: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/IrcGuidelines | Please direct offtopic/social chat to #rockbox-community | We need to seriously beef up the ideas list *now* or we dont have much of a chance for GSoC this year | Add ideas, flesh out existing ones with research/suggestions/something - they really need expanding upon/many are too brief | Dig through http://www.rock" by scorche (~scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
09:44:34Topic"Please read before speaking: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/IrcGuidelines | Please direct offtopic/social chat to #rockbox-community | We need to seriously beef up the ideas list *now* or we dont have much of a chance for GSoC this year | Add ideas, flesh out existing ones with research/suggestions/something - they really need expanding upon/many are too brief" by scorche (~scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
09:45:47Mode"#rockbox -o scorche" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
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09:49:56Zagorwe don't support the full ipod accessory protocol, do we?
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10:05:17scorcheanyway, i am going to sleep now...please help that page out when you can in the near future and i will tell some people to have another look at it later today (my time)
10:06:12scorcheif nothing much else is changed, i dont know about our status for GSoC, so...
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10:27:48***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:33:45S_a_i_n_tCan anyone tell me why the lang string "Next Track:" has a ":" but "Now Playing" doesn't?
10:34:05S_a_i_n_tIt's messing up my WPS :P
10:40:55Zagoriap.c:772 looks odd. it always send the same screen size.
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10:48:27JdGordonS_a_i_n_t: Now playing is used in the menus
10:50:14S_a_i_n_tOh right...it is to.
10:50:17S_a_i_n_tbugger.
10:51:14JdGordonI think tomers added the : to next track
10:51:30JdGordoncome up with a good way for the wps lang to remove characters and I'll do it
10:52:14S_a_i_n_twell, I mean that's a good thing, with RTL languages "Now Playing:" (you have to add the semicolon) ends up as :XXXX XXXXX. :/
10:52:48CIA-5New commit by 03zagor (r25215): Return real screen size.
10:56:27S_a_i_n_tis there a "is lang RTL or LTR tag?
10:57:25S_a_i_n_tI know of %aL and %aR...but is there one I can use conditionally?
10:57:28JdGordonof course
10:58:19JdGordonumm... or i tihnk there is
11:00
11:00:17S_a_i_n_tif there is...I can't seem to find it.
11:02:16S_a_i_n_tI'd like (if possible) to use ?<rtl|ltr>, or even ?<rtl|> and ?<ltr|>...but I don't think such a tag exists.
11:02:21S_a_i_n_t:/
11:05:13JdGordon%Sr
11:05:45S_a_i_n_tdo you have a link for that, what page is it on?
11:05:57S_a_i_n_t...and thanks.
11:06:00JdGordonskins_parser,c
11:06:26S_a_i_n_tthanks.
11:08:53S_a_i_n_tMy theme is now completely language aware :D
11:09:46S_a_i_n_tI needed to use %Sr to hide/show a semicolon that looked weird when it was RTL
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11:21:07Luca_Swouldn't embedded album art support be a good gsoc idea?
11:21:34S_a_i_n_tI believe the submission has already been sent in.
11:21:39S_a_i_n_tI may be wrong though.
11:21:54S_a_i_n_tBut I think it went in a day or so ago.
11:23:01gevaertsS_a_i_n_t: you are both wrong and not wrong
11:23:15Luca_Sheisenberg would be proud :D
11:23:19gevaertsRockbox did apply, but the ideas page is still under construction
11:23:31S_a_i_n_tahhhhh...
11:23:39gevaertsLuca_S: we don't know where he is, but we do know he's not moving :)
11:25:46Luca_Shm.. on http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/TargetStatus#New_Platforms_Currently_Under_De it says that fuzev2 lacks buttons. don't we have them at least for dual boot?
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13:15:46CIA-5New commit by 03pamaury (r25216): tagcache: fix once for all those stupid warnings.
13:15:58CIA-5New commit by 03pamaury (r25217): tagcache: Factor ecread of tagfile_entry/index_entry, and ecwrite of index_entry. This should save some binsize and avoid this stupidly repetitive ...
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13:34:43pamauryhehe nice green delta !
13:40:25pamaurygevaerts: this time, this is a binsize green delta !
13:44:09gevaerts\☺/
13:47:02pamauryI think one day I'll become madeand rewrite tagcache. It's way too much complicated and bloated in my opinion but perhaps I can't do better
13:48:28gevaertsthere's only one way to find out :)
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15:28:29niekieGreetings. :)
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15:31:06niekieJust wondering if there has been any progress lately on USB support for Sansa Fuze (v1). I'm just about to buy one :)
15:31:43funmanniekie: no progress, but you can transfer files with the OF
15:33:05niekiefunman: allright :)
15:33:22niekieThey seem to have lots of iPods too. But they're out of my budget, even the older ones :)
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15:34:10niekieHope the one I'm going to buy is actually the v1 though and not sneakily the v2. Though they promised me I can return it for a full refund if it isn't :)
15:34:59rvvs89niekie: Who are you buying from?
15:35:00funmankugel: is USB_PIN correct for fuzev2 in mkamsboot/dualboot.S ?
15:35:14*kugel added an idea and a sentence or two to some other ideas in http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/WhyNoMalloc
15:35:18kugelfunman: sure
15:35:19niekiervvs89: MediaMarkt.
15:35:39funmankugel: i would like to make a new release of mkamsboot which includes the fix for c200v2 and new models
15:35:49niekie(it's a Dutch store)
15:36:02funmanright now i'm looking at using ranmachan's code on Clip+ (it doesn't work out of the box) so we have USB check on all models
15:36:11rvvs89niekie: Thanks.
15:36:20kugelwhy make a release only for not-even-unstable targets?
15:36:47funmanc200v2 is unstable afaik
15:37:11kugelno
15:37:18funmanyou're right, it's listed as unusable
15:37:54funmanbut afaik the playback crashes are infrequent (if not completely absent like on the clipv1) so it could go into the higher category
15:38:21kugellet's ask ranmachan :)
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15:38:43fred_99hi
15:39:13fred_99little question about battery estimation time
15:39:49kugelfunman: the c200v2 probably has the problem that some codecs don't fit into the audio buffer simply because of their filesize
15:40:32kugelams_lowmem still has a quite oversized plugin buffer, right?
15:40:50fred_99I looked in the forum and found somebody with the same problem as me but I don't really see, if it is possible to fix it, and how to do it
15:41:16funmankugel: plugin buffer is 0x60000 bytes for those
15:41:56funmanbertrik: about Clip+ iram size: I really tested 1MB , but then made the mistake to think that 0x5 * 2 == 0x10, so the Clip+ has 1MB of iram
15:41:59kugel400k is quite oversized :P
15:42:20funmankugel: afaik it can't go much more below without removing plugins
15:42:24kugelin particular for mono screens like the clip's
15:44:21kugelLARGE_PLUGIN_BUFFER is for buffers >= 0x80000 and it's already below that
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15:44:39kugel(I believe lua depends on LARGE_PLUGIN_BUFFER)
15:46:19kugelthe majority of plugins don't need a large buffer, and the others probably don't run on the c200v2 anyway (like doom)
15:46:28funmanzxbox.rock is 150kB, without bss
15:46:41funman(just looking at clip)
15:47:01kugelhas anyone every run that? :p
15:47:21funmankugel: i had tried to reduce the buffer already, don't remember what was the first plugin to fail
15:47:30funmanwell not me but who knows
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15:48:23kugelyou could stil build large plugins as overlay to run from the audio buffer, that shouldn't be the problem
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15:54:53funmanapparently zxbox (biggest) is 280kB on the Clipv1, and plugin ram is 384kB, so we could reduce the buffer
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15:55:46gevaertsfunman: some plugins use the remaining size as a buffer
15:55:48Torneis anyone really going to miss zxbox on the clip?
15:55:55Tornesurely the screen is way too small
15:56:51funmangevaerts: so there is no way to check if they fit at build time ?
15:57:07Torneit depends how the plugin does it..
15:57:18Torneseveral of them try and use the remaining space and if htat doesn't fit, stop playback and use the audio buffer
15:57:22gevaertsfunman: well, they will fit, it's just that they might be less practical
15:57:24Torne(frotz does this, but i copied it from another plugin..)
15:57:58gevaertsThe smaller the plugin buffer is, the sooner they have to stop playback
15:58:03Torneyeah
15:58:04kugelTorne: I think so too. I doubt anyone would miss zxbox on any target, not on the clip anyway :p
15:58:07funmanwell the size removed from plugin buffer will be available as audio buffer those will still work, although not with simultaneous playback
15:58:38Torneanyway, i just mean i suspect tha thte larger plugins are also the ones least likely to be useful on the clip anyway
15:58:48funmantext editor is just 7kB smaller than zxbox
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15:59:00Torne..the text editor is over 250KB?
15:59:03Tornewhat the hell
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15:59:24funmanthe .rock itself is 4kB
15:59:24*kugel has seen smaller text editors for desktop pcs
15:59:41Torneoh, it has a huge buffer in bss?
15:59:52funman256kB
15:59:54Tornethat sounds like it should be replaced with the above mechanism
16:00
16:00:29funman24kB if plugin buffer size is below 262kB
16:00:32kugelit could probably handle a smaller buffer as well, as it IIRC can handle files that are larger than 256K
16:01:09funmanif we remove zxbox and reduce the buffer size, it would use this smaller buffer
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16:04:13kugelsounds like a plan :)
16:05:41funmanlooks clearly too small
16:06:44funmanif it's too small on c200v2 as well we could disable it for MEMORYSIZE <= 2
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16:09:34funmanhm perhaps screen size would be a better criteria
16:10:26fred_99does anybody knows what changed since some months about battery time remaining ?
16:10:47funmanfred_99: do you see ridiculously high estimated time ?
16:10:53fred_99yep
16:11:24funmancurrent consumption was never estimated for your model
16:11:37funmanprevious estimation just used archos numbers
16:11:58fred_99funman: the thing is that it seems to have files in the web page
16:12:27fred_99funman: since 2007
16:12:57fred_99funman: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/IAudioRuntime is it the wright place ?
16:13:04funmanzxbox is just disabled for mrobe500 (for no apparent reason), and the overlay was made for archos (which have a small screen just like the clip)
16:13:53funmanfred_99: use these numbers to patch firmware/export/config/iaudio*.h
16:15:59fred_99funman: do you mean, patch, then compile ..... if yes I don't know if I need a crosscompiler or something
16:17:16funmanyou do, probably better to wait for someone to fix it
16:17:44funmanlinuxstb: do you have an idea of a proper lcd size needed for zxbox to run properly ?
16:17:59fred_99funman: ok .... thanks ..... I'm going to have a look
16:18:43pixelmafred_99: what sort of problem do you have with the runtime estimation?
16:19:31funmanre: mkamsboot, we need to make sure pclk is at 24MHz and we aren't sure for Clip+
16:19:43pixelmaand did you check the set battery capacity as I assume you have an X5L?
16:19:56linuxstbfunman: No. I didn't write it - someone else did, but I may have committed it (before that person was given svn access), So don't believe "svn blame"
16:20:15Tornefunman: I'm having a look ;)
16:20:25funman"ported by Anton Romanov"
16:21:23linuxstbfunman: Yes, that's not me ;)
16:21:54niekieWell, there goes my Sansa Fuze...
16:21:54Tornefunman: It nees 256x192 to output 1:1
16:22:03niekieTurns out it was a v2 after all, so I exchanged it.
16:22:04fred_99pixelma: sorry for the late answer .... I have an X5, and the time are really big
16:22:08Tornefunman: it does some kind of scaling down to make them smaller
16:22:13Tornefor smaller screens.
16:22:25funmanyeah i noticed that the whole screen fits
16:22:30funmanit's just quite unreadable
16:22:41TorneYup, it's a quite dumb scaler by the looks of it
16:22:55Torneit's also using greylib as it requires 2bpp
16:23:03Torne(well, at least)
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16:23:24pixelmafred_99: is this an "L" model with the larger battery (longer runtime usually)?
16:23:39fred_99pixelma: It went wrong a couple of months ago when I updated
16:23:43TorneHm, no, actually it might just be skipping pixels instead of scaling :)
16:23:44fred_99pixelma: no
16:24:00fred_99pixelma: X5 60GB
16:24:09TorneSo, yeah, I would naievely assume that the vast majority of spectrum stuff is hideous/unplayable if the target's screen is <256x192
16:24:36fred_99pixelma: I changed one the battery but I putted the same ref
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16:24:59CIA-5New commit by 03funman (r25218): mkamsboot: update README for Clip+/Fuzev2
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16:25:44Tornefunman: I would suspect nobody would mind if we ifdef'ed it to only build for targets with a screen at least as big as the spectrum's :)
16:26:03fred_99 pixelma: I noticed the wrong values, but lived with it.
16:26:29funmanthat would leave the zenvisions, ipod video, cowond2 (and onda?)
16:26:35fred_99 pixelma: and today I said, why not try to fix this problem
16:26:37gevaertsTorne: I suspect that you'd be surprised!
16:26:41Tornegevaerts: Well, maybe
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16:26:48Tornebut it really does look like it just skips pixels
16:27:03Torneif you look in zxvid_2bpp.c
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16:27:55***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:28:03kugelfunman: what's the problem ranmachan is reporting on the forum?
16:28:05funmani'll try on target, to see if it runs at least
16:28:14kugelI was also having problems in lcd_clear_viewport
16:28:32kugelthe interrupt I said was triggered could as well be a fault handler
16:28:38funmankugel: recording?
16:28:44saratogai think the clip crashes occasionally, but with a smaller plugin buffer it'd probably work well enough
16:29:16funmansaratoga: when did it crash last? i haven't seen a crash in a loooong time
16:29:17saratogathough i'm confused why, matsch said that he could run music indefinitely on his clip with even smaller buffers then the c200v2
16:29:23saratogafunman: sorry c200v2
16:29:31pixelmafred_99: maybe your new battery has a different discharge curve than the stock ones?
16:30:00Tornefunman: yeah it is just a fixedpoint implementation of nearest-neighbour :)
16:30:02funmanpixelma: i suppose it's just that CURRENT_* aren't defined in config/*.h
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16:30:20Tornefunman: so that's going to look wank if the screen is much smaller than the speccy
16:30:21kugelfunman: could ranmachan experience the same problem I have on my fuze?
16:30:36pixelmafunman: what?
16:30:49funmanTorne: well actually Tetris is quite playable on Clip
16:31:03Tornefunman: how big is the clip screen?
16:31:06funman128x64
16:31:11kugelfuzev2*
16:31:14fred_99 pixelma: my problem occurred after a RB updade , not after my battery change
16:31:20funmankugel: i don't understand
16:31:28Torneso you're throwing out half the columns and two thirds of the rows?
16:31:54kugeldo you remember that I reported that I have a problem with my fuze in lcd_init when it calls clear_display? I said disabling interrupts helped
16:31:55pixelmafunman: I'm sure the runtime estimation was calibrated on the Iaudios.
16:31:56funmanpixelma: see firmware/export/powermgmt.h:79
16:31:59Tornethat really doesn't sound particularly fun :)
16:32:38funmanCURRENT_* are model specific, defined in their config/model.h file, and only CURRENT_REMOTE is defined there
16:32:43kugelranmachan experiences exception handler trigger in the very same code
16:32:58kugel(still talking about fuzev2, sorry)
16:33:02funmankugel: no i don't think so, ranmachan problem comes from buffer overwrite
16:33:04pixelmafred_99: did you check your battery capacity setting?
16:33:23fred_99950mAh
16:33:26kugelmaybe code is overwritten on my fuzev2 too
16:33:36fred_99fred_99: 950mAh ?
16:33:45kugeldoes disable_irq() also disable exception handlers?
16:33:58funmanhow? the problem comes from recording
16:34:27kugelno, but I consider it possible
16:34:43pixelmafred_99: that's the lowest if I remember correctly, does it match your battery? Although the 60GB X5s usually have these "small" batteries, so I'm not sure
16:35:04kugelof course if I have the same problem, something else (not recording) would overwrite the code
16:35:11funmankugel: only system_init() & kernel_init() at this point
16:35:40funmancan you "print" bits with morse code using the backlight ?
16:35:45fred_99pixelma: I think it is almost good
16:35:48kugeli.e. I could imagine that lcd_clear_viewport which writes to the while lot of the frame buffer overwrites itself overwrites code
16:36:21kugelfunman: obviously I have been further that those two functions in my local code
16:37:04kugellcd_init() definitely crashed/froze in lcd_clear_viewport with interrupts enabled
16:37:20pixelmafred_99: I meant if your new battery has the capacity of 950mAh
16:37:29kugelI haven't tried to turn the backlight off yet, but I could do
16:37:49saratogawe could just make the runtime always be zero if theres no current value defined
16:37:53fred_99pixelma: nearly or yes
16:37:56saratogamaybe that would be better
16:38:15fred_99pixelma: let me check my battery order to confirm
16:38:38pixelmafunman: that won't tell me much, I just have a *feeling* that you are on the wrong track. Unfortunately I don't know enough and can only talk from a user's point of view (Iaudio M5L though)
16:38:58saratogai don't know what you're talking about, but i'm pretty sure theres no run time estimation for the iaudios
16:39:25fred_99pexelma: 1100mAh .... sorry
16:39:49saratogai don't think the battery capacity setting does anything at all for the iaudio
16:39:56pixelmasaratoga: percentage is calibrated
16:39:59fred_99pixelma: I'm going to change the value, if it exists
16:40:00funmankugel: if you can stop execution a bit before it crashes and "print" the values in memory you could check if it's overwritten or not
16:40:16funmanTorne might know if disabling interrupts also disable exceptions
16:40:17fred_99pixelma: 1100mAh
16:40:38TorneYou can't disable exceptions
16:40:45Torneaborts are aborts
16:40:54pixelmasaratoga: I don't think amiconn did the battery benchs with the M5L for nothing
16:41:06funmankugel: so i would think it's a spurious interrupt which comes from somewhere
16:41:16kugelprobably
16:41:25TorneIf you take an abort in IRQ mode then you end up in abort mode with SPSR_abt[4:0] = irqmode
16:41:34saratogapixelma: i don't think the battery capacity settings has anything to do with the percentage
16:42:07kugelfunman: I fear it's the watchdog one we never figured out why it happens
16:42:20funmans/watchdog/interrupt without sources/
16:42:22saratogayou dont' actually need to know the capacity of a battery to figure out how discharged it is, you just read out the voltage and use that to compute it
16:42:39kugelwell, it showed watchdog for quite some time :)
16:42:43funmanit printed "watchdog" because no bit was set, and the code ran like only bit 0 was set
16:43:14funmancould be the "sandisk watchdog" which checks nobody messes with their hardware :)
16:43:29kugelI could just return in the default handler/remove the panicf if it's that one, right?
16:43:57Tornesurely it will just interrupt again though
16:44:07Torneif something is asserting IRQ then you have to make it stop :)
16:44:15Torneotherwise it'll just go back to irq when you reenable interrupts
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16:44:52fred_99pixelma: I changed, then shutdown and restart, but the elapsed battery time value is almost the same, nearly 80h, and it should be something around 1h
16:45:44pixelmaare you looking at the "Running time" screen?
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16:46:31saratogayes, because there is no runtime estimation for your player
16:46:37saratogaso you won't get a correct value
16:47:14saratogaeither scroll up and do what funman told you or ignore the incorrect value
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16:48:01fred_99pixelma: in my main theme screen, I try to change theme to see if my theme was wrong but it seems no
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16:48:44fred_99pixelma: yes "Running time" screen
16:49:18fred_99pixelma: is there an other place to look at to confirm ?
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16:49:26Tornefred_99: We *do not have an estimate* for how much power your player draws
16:49:36Tornefred_99: so, the remaining battery time is meaningless.
16:49:56Tornefred_99: the fix is to go look at the runtimes page and work out what it should be, put it in firmware/export/config/iaudiox5.h, and compile a new rockbox
16:50:08Torneas saratoga has been telling you :)
16:50:26pixelmathe "Running Time" screen shows how long the player was run and is no estimate how long it will run
16:50:48saratoga"#if MEM == 8 && !(defined(ARCHOS_ONDIOSP) || defined(ARCHOS_ONDIOFM))"
16:50:56saratogawhich devices is that referring to
16:51:07pixelmaand on the Iaudio it's not reset on charger connect because this functionality is not implemented yet
16:51:16fred_99Torne: do you mean this http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/pub/Main/IAudioRuntime/battery_bench_x5_1.txt
16:51:25saratogareally? I thought it should be reset now
16:52:20pixelmaso the 80-hourish is something that states how long the player was run since you last reset the value
16:52:57pixelmasaratoga: Rockbox doesn't know the player is charging on the Iaudios
16:52:58fred_99Torne: thanks for your reply ..... is there a wiki to explain how to install all the compil stuff on a linux machine ?
16:53:44funmanfred_99: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/DevelopmentGuide
16:53:58saratogapixelma: i think it'll still reset the runtime when you plug in USB
16:54:10fred_99funman: thanks
16:54:17kugelsaratoga: fuze/e200v2, maybe there are other 8MBers (irivier?)
16:54:22Tornefred_99: It would be better if you did some battery benches yourself, and compared them to other recent benches on the wiki, and if it all matches up pretty well using the default settings then maybe we can set the estimate up properly
16:54:38Tornefred_99: if you actually want it fixed, that's the right way :)
16:54:39kugelgrep memory tools/configure
16:54:45saratogakugel: haha so instead of changing some archos runtime it actually messes it up on the Fuze!
16:54:45funmani can only reduce c200v2 plugin buffer by 8kb or so because of rockboy
16:54:58*Strife89 proposes FS #8806 for the GSOC.
16:55:01saratogadoes rockboy actually work on such a small screen?
16:55:23Strife89saratoga: Rockboy is usable for ... some games.
16:55:26Darkknight512Rockbox has no prob working on my Nano
16:55:32kugelsaratoga: what does that #if control?
16:55:32fred_99Torne: I look to the file pointed by the link and it seems OK for me
16:55:40Darkknight512rockboy*
16:55:49saratogakugel: /* assuming 192 kbps, the running time is 22% longer with 8MB */ current = CURRENT_NORMAL*100 / 122;
16:55:56saratogaobviously wrong
16:55:58Strife89saratoga: Let's just say that Pokemon players had better have the script memorized.
16:56:09Tornefred_99: What?
16:56:12fred_99Torne: it is quite old but seems OK ... anyway the X5 is old .... but what sound ;)
16:56:31Tornefred_99: The point is that there's no estimate in the code because nobody has taken the time to verify what the right number is
16:56:32kugelsaratoga: that probably only refers to the modded recorder8mb
16:56:55Tornefred_99: you saying that some number seems okay to you is not evidence
16:56:58pixelmaI've seen Rockboy working (Mario) on an Recorder Screenwise it would have been playable
16:57:07*Strife89 proposes that FS #8802 and FS #10034 (both iPod related patches) be considered for GSOC.
16:57:09Tornefred_99: evidence == battery bench results, with default (or reasonable) settings
16:57:39saratogakugel: yeah fixing it now
16:57:44saratogagreat that its been wrong for years
16:57:46CIA-5New commit by 03funman (r25219): Clipv1 & m200v4 : reduce plugin buffer size to strict minimum
16:57:51TorneStrife89: 8802 is not a good idea..
16:57:57pixelmasaratoga: and what if you connect a charger (and no USB)?
16:58:00TorneStrife89: I'm already doing the USB charging rework for this
16:58:01gevaertsStrife89: are you sure you understand what gsoc is?
16:58:07Torneand yeah
16:58:13Strife89gevaerts: A little.
16:58:14TorneThe point is to have students implement a project
16:58:24kugelfunman: "strict" minimum?
16:58:28TorneOne, large, project that will take them the entire time
16:58:29Strife89Torne: Ah. ^^;
16:58:39funmansaratoga: dunno, but then ppmviewer is quite big as well
16:58:41gevaertsGetting a patch ready for commit isn't really the sort of thing that's good there
16:58:51funmankugel: a few kbytes left
16:58:56fred_99Torne: I opened the file from /IAudioRuntime page and the times seems to be good
16:58:58TorneStrife89: FS #8802 isn't suitable for commit because our USB charging infrastructure isn't smart enough
16:59:06Tornefred_99: Please read what I said again
16:59:29TorneStrife89: we handle usb charging quite badly; i'm trying to do better but haven't had time to get it ready yet :)
16:59:31funman0x44000 bytes was too small
16:59:38saratogapixelma: i have no idea, i don't have the player
16:59:44*Strife89 has a plugin idea that Lambda has agreed to help with. Currently I'm writing a script for it.
17:00
17:00:35Strife89If the idea holds up, that could be a project, perhaps....
17:00:38Tornefred_99: There are very few battery benches for the iAudio, and they are all very old
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17:00:55Tornefred_99: If you want to help get proper estimates for the player then you need to do battery benchmarks yourself, and post them
17:01:20funmankugel: perhaps on fuzev2 pclk isn't at the correct frequency for DBOP (or LCD) to work ?
17:01:24Tornefred_99: When there is sufficient data to decide what hte estimate should be, someone will add it :)
17:01:47saratogaanyone want to guess what will happen if I make battery_time return -1 if theres no current value available?
17:02:00saratogawill the WPS code handle it
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17:03:50CIA-5New commit by 03saratoga (r25220): Remove some old archos code that caused runtime estimation to be off on AMS players while not actually working on Archos.
17:04:22fred_99Torne: my battery life is something like 6 hours, how many files with 6 hours are needed ?
17:04:43kugelfunman: the fuze sets it to 64 or 62MHz. unless the bits changed (and they didn't going by the disassembly, I even found their CLK_DIV function) we're only 2MHz off
17:04:45Torne"something like 6 hours" is not a benchmark result
17:04:46fred_99Torne: if not more that 2 I can help .... for sure
17:04:53kugels/fuze/of/
17:05:37funmankugel: but CGU_PERI is different on as3525v2
17:05:44fred_99Torne: 6 hours of data I meant
17:05:57Tornefred_99: One complete battery bench is *one data point*
17:06:01saratogakugel: could you make the WPS tag not print if battery_time() returns -1?
17:06:25Tornefred_99: generlaly we would base an estimate on several benches from different people
17:06:39kugelsaratoga: I don't understand
17:06:41Tornefred_99: right now there are no bench results for a recent build, so if you do one, then we'll have one :)
17:06:55saratogakugel: I can make battery_time() return -1 if it doesn't know the battery time
17:06:55fred_99Torne: ok
17:07:02saratogacould the WPS be made to not print anything in that case?
17:07:05kugelyou could add a conditional case for -1, or make it act as if a existing one (like empty)
17:07:20Tornefred_99: if you want to do it multiple times that'd probably be good, but you don't need to upload them all, just check that they are pretty much the same ;)
17:07:34fred_99Torne: 00:00:26, 00026, 049%, 93:06, 3789, -
17:07:38saratogakugel: i mean could the wps do that automatically, just have the tag be ifdef'ed out if it won't work
17:07:46pixelmait's still not the runtime estimation fred_99 is looking at (IIUC)
17:07:47fred_99Torne: is this a bench ?
17:07:56Tornefred_99: No, the *entire logfile* is a battery bench
17:08:05saratogafred_99: if you just want your player to give you a random number, take your battery capacity in mah and divide by the number of hours you want it to say
17:08:20Tornefollow the instructions on http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/BatteryRuntime
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17:08:29saratogathen make that the value for CURRENT_NORMAL normal
17:08:33kugelsaratoga: you can make it print nothing, I believe
17:08:40Torneor http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/PluginBatteryBenchmark
17:08:46saratogawell i can't since I don't even know where the wps code is :)
17:08:46kugelbut it's usually used conditionally with images, then this won't work
17:08:56saratogahmm ok
17:09:04saratogawould having it return -1 be ok?
17:09:22fred_99saratoga: ok ok, sorry .... again ..... I use rockbox for quite a long time now and never help .... if it's not possible
17:09:30kugelif that return code is free, sure. you would add a case in skin_tokens.c then
17:09:49kugelmaybe assign the same value to *intval that's assigned for an empty or full battery
17:10:04fred_99saratoga: I will continue to listen to the music .. with or without battery time left
17:10:08kugelI believe there actually is a "special" case in the conditional but I'm not too sure
17:10:20saratogakugel: this is for runtime estimation right? not battery capacity
17:10:39saratogathe percentage value you get is something else, this is the thing that says you have X minutes remaining
17:11:07Tornefred_99: saratoga and kugel are talking about something else; they are discussing how to get rid of the nonsense values on the players without known estimates by replacing htem with no value at all
17:11:10kugelhttp://www.rockbox.org/wiki/CustomWPS#Power_Related_Information shows that %bl's first case is actually -1 for battery level unknown
17:11:20Tornefred_99: If you want to help, then do a battery bench for your player, following the process on the wiki, and post it on the wiki
17:11:40saratogakugel: this would be %bt not %bl I think
17:11:41Tornefred_99: If we can get several recent battery benches for that model then a real estimate can be added
17:11:43kugelyou could simply always return that on targets with no estimation
17:11:54funmanyou need 2 battery benches: one with the backlight on, one with the backlight off
17:11:55fred_99Torne: I will do it
17:12:04Tornefred_99: if you just want your player to display a different value, then edit the code and compile it yourself, but that doesn't help us
17:12:20Torneah yes, as funman says: with and without backlight
17:12:26kugel%bt should be easy to change
17:12:58saratogakugel: could you give me a patch to have it ignore -1 values and print nothing at all then?
17:13:04fred_99funman: thanks for your help ..... and I will also try what you said before about the .h file
17:13:10saratogai'll change powermanagment to handle that
17:14:11kugelit's supposed to show ?h:?m as of the current code
17:14:44kugelit already checks battery_time() >= 0
17:15:07CIA-5New commit by 03saratoga (r25221): Forgot the #
17:15:40saratogaah so it should jsut work
17:24:26saratogakugel: ok it shows a question mark instead of a wrong time, would you consider this better ?
17:24:45saratogaoh huh that might be the WPS that does it?
17:24:54saratogawhat does this mean: %?bt< %bt>%ar%?pp<[%pp/%pe]>
17:24:59fred_99Torne: the "Battery Benchmark" page says that we can use the RB as normal, and the battery_bench.txt file says to play a couple of songs until my battery is dead ..... so what's the better thing to do ?
17:25:21Tornefred_99: Set up a playlist that's longer than the ram you have in your player, and put it on repeat
17:25:27Torneand leave it alone until the battery is dead
17:25:33kugelsaratoga: bt cannot be used conditionally
17:28:11pixelmaTorne: the playlist doesn't need to be larger than RAM, Rockbox would fill the rest with the next "round" as much as fits
17:28:33fred_99Torne: one with light and one without, like said funman
17:28:43Torneah, clearly i am assuming too much about buffering ;)
17:28:55fred_99Torne: I guess battery must be full charged
17:29:00Torneyup
17:29:14Tornepixelma: doesn't hurt, though :)
17:30:30fred_99Torne: so it will take a couple of days but I will do it ..... thanks again for all the people here doing a great job
17:32:54fred_99an other question, my USB doesn't work anymore between RB and my Linux laptop ..... any clue
17:33:59fred_99I have to boot iaudio OS to access my HD ..... and I can remember it was working before
17:35:16gevaertshm, I think my X5 does that too. I've been assuming that it was a hardware issue, but if yours is the same...
17:35:17fred_99var/log/messages.log shows nothing at all on both the 2 X5 usb ports
17:36:07fred_99gevaerts: I remember the one with the adaptator was working .... but quite a long time ago
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17:39:52pixelmano problem here on my M5 with recent builds connected to the standard USB, haven't tried the subpack one. The side USB is different to those of the X5 though
17:40:42fred_99Torne: when I read "The best method for determining if the device is still on (if this cannot be determined by looking at it) is to listen briefly at the headphones." ....
17:41:16fred_99Torne: does that mean the test have to be done without head phones ?
17:42:37evilnick_Bfred_99: headphones should be left plugged in
17:43:08evilnick_Bi.e. you're trying to simulate using the DAP for as long as possible before the battery runs out
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17:43:45evilnick_BAlthough given that your test will be a large number of hours, it's not usual for the tester to listen to the headphones 100% of the time the test is running :)
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17:46:19fred_99evilnick_B: "listen briefly" was stange for me ..... how my X5 , which I love .... can know if I listen or not ;)
17:46:58evilnick_BAh, well that's the Rockbox plugin "Sentience" (joking)
17:49:01fred_99evilnick_B: sorry .... my vocabulary doen't cover this
17:50:26evilnick_Bfred_99: It's offtopic, but sentience is what something has if it's alive! :)
17:51:32fred_99evilnick_B: man Sentience ..... on the web .....
17:53:31 Quit r0b- (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
17:53:43fred_99evilnick_B: I just read that we don't have a word for this in french
17:55:03fred_99evilnick_B: so now I can laugh
17:55:17evilnick_B:)
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18:00
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18:13:27CIA-5New commit by 03saratoga (r25222): Disable runtime estimation altogether when there is no runtime current defined. It doens't work and people somehow got confused by seeing obviously ...
18:17:52saratogaha all the green entries on the build table are the devices with no runtime estimation
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18:20:51gevaertssaratoga: any idea what happened to the fm recorder?
18:21:29funmantoo much runtime estimation? :)
18:22:07funmangevaerts: i remember seeing the same difference earlier for this target in random commits
18:25:01kugelthat happened to the c200v2 once as well (assuming the next commit well correct it)
18:25:39gevaertsbuilding those two revisions here gives a zero delta
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18:27:58***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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18:33:52funmankugel: so anything against making a mkamsboot1.2 today ?
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18:38:26gevaertsscorche: ping
18:39:32gevaertsDoes "many are too brief" mean that the more elaborate ones are ok?
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18:59:10saratogathe c200v2 and clipv1 probably can use the same estimation
18:59:39bluebrotheramiconn: rbutil does not use voice.pl, and as far as I know it doesn't do any spelling corrections. That's definitely something that needs improvement.
18:59:44funmandoesn't the OLED need less power ?
19:00
19:01:07saratogawhy is current normal larger on the fuze then clip they have the same processor
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19:01:35funmandunno
19:02:28funmanah perhaps memory ?
19:02:51funmanthe 2Mb memory is 'low-power' according to MPMC setting, and 8Mb is high efficiency
19:03:15saratogawell probably not 15 ma more power
19:03:43saratogai'll leave it alone for now, i assume we'll be changing the runtime on the fuze a lot in the future anyway
19:04:46Luca_Sis there a wiki page that explains how to disassemble the fuzev2 OF?
19:05:05Luca_Sor, even better, is a disassembly already online somewhere?
19:05:22saratogawe can't post disassembly since its not our code
19:05:37Luca_Smakes sense indeed
19:06:13Luca_Sis *nix necessary to disassemble it?
19:06:23CIA-5New commit by 03saratoga (r25223): Add basic runtime estimation for the c200v2 (taken from Clipv1) and e200v2 (taken from fuzev1).
19:06:29saratogano
19:06:47saratogathe rockbox dev tools should be enough, although there are also ways to do it without them
19:07:31saratogai think you'll want to use utils/AMS/hacking/amsinfo.c either way though
19:07:47funmanLuca_S: i think sharing publicly disassembly is not legal because the OF is copyright Sandisk (or whoever wrote it)
19:09:09*kugel thinks it's ought to be impossible to have copyright on code that is generated by software you didn't write yourself
19:09:11funmanLuca_S: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SansaAMSFirmware#Blocks_Description can help a bit perhaps
19:09:41funmankugel: disassembly is reversible to the copyrighted code
19:10:16funmanFlynDice: ping
19:10:35Luca_Sso amsinfo is used to extract the main firmware image from the full firmware file, right?
19:10:44kugelthat doesn't change the fact that you did not write the machine code but instead let a third-party software generate it
19:11:08Luca_Sand its output should be in turn feeded to a disassembler?
19:11:30funmanLuca_S: right, amsinfo also extracts the 'library' blocks which can be disassembled as well
19:11:32kugeland most importantly, other compilers generate other code, which means you would have the same copyright on (slightly) different programs
19:11:39kugelbut that's just my opinion :)
19:11:51funmanmost of the information is in the file 'firmware' which you can disassemble from address 0 though
19:12:19Luca_Safter that, can I use the command line at http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=14064.msg141006#msg141006 to decompile?
19:12:42saratogathe theory is that the disassembly is simply another representation of the creative work contained in the original binary, and thus equivalent to the original
19:12:50funmanyes, just skip start-address & stop-address if you use amsinfo output
19:13:50funman-Mforce-thumb will generate thumb disassembly, but only parts of the OF are in thumb, other parts are arm (32bits) and plain data
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19:15:36funmanbtw can someone test the new Clipv2 OF released yesterday with mkamsboot ?
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19:19:31FlynDicefunman: pong
19:20:11funmani want to make a 1.2 release of mkamsboot with c200v2 fix and clip+/fuzev2 support, anything against?
19:21:47FlynDiceI've got nothing against it, but that's almost like asking the dog how he likes the tv show... ;-)
19:22:02funmanhm ok :/
19:22:12kugelI stull don't see a point of doing a release solely for targets that are not released (or even usable), but people will probably be happy about the new OF versions supported
19:22:18funmani'll just wait for someone to test clipv2 OF
19:22:24kugelstill*
19:22:36funmankugel: with released targets you can use rbutil anwyay
19:22:59kugeldoes that support more of versions?
19:23:14funmanyes rbutil is built with svn mkamsboot
19:23:36kugeloh, well
19:23:59funmanand we could get more c200v2 testers
19:25:24kugelso my arguments stand but if you really want it go for it
19:25:54kugelmkamsboot isn't my area you know :)
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19:29:05Luca_Skugel: does the svn boot loader for the fuzev2 recognize buttons? on the wiki it says that fuzev2 does not have buttons yet...
19:29:38kugelno it doesn't but I have disassembled the OF routines for button reading
19:29:55mt2Is there a problem with the build server ?
19:29:57kugelit's just hard to implement a driver from it without display :)
19:30:28FlynDicebtw, re clip+ uSD. Still trying to "find" the card. I've got everything working as far as INTERNAL_AS3525 & SD_SLOT_AS3525 go. All I need to do is find out how to access the damn card!
19:31:37Luca_SI have to agree :) I guess it's very different from the v1 or the other AMS sansas then?
19:31:38funmanFlynDice: did you set bits 20:16 of CMD register?
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19:33:11FlynDiceyes, when I do that the card detect register shows 0x0 and without it card_detect shows 0x2, still experimenting
19:33:32kugelLuca_S: it's not very different from the old button driver we had (reading from GPIO), it might even be the same
19:33:56funmankugel: did you find some code about button light ?
19:34:04kugelno
19:34:22FlynDiceSetting B5 seems to have no effect also
19:34:32gevaertsZagor: is the build server OK?
19:35:22Luca_Sah, it uses GPIOs? they're not listed on the SansaAMSHardwareMappings page
19:36:04kugelbecause I don't know which GPIO corresponds to which button
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19:37:12funmankugel: try B5
19:37:44kugelis that a wild guess?
19:37:54funmanno
19:38:16funmani compared fuzev1 & fuzev2 OF side by side
19:38:57kugelcan you give me the address?
19:39:02 Quit Luca_S (Quit: Gotta go, goodbye everybody)
19:39:14FlynDiceback later
19:41:53funmanfuzev2-1-17: 0x862C, fuzev1-1-11: 0x44D8 - they're both called at the end of the "Control" thread
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19:44:47kugelfunman: ah thanks! I have that function but I didn't connect it to buttonlight (I don't have a fuzev1 disassembly)
19:45:01kugelset_clear_GPIOB5() :P
19:45:09 Quit m3dlg (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
19:52:15kugelfunman: and the function directly below calls lcd_enable and some backlight stuff, as I see it
19:58:47funmani called it toggle_hardware
19:59:56kugeldoes that call backlight_set_brightness() ? I haven't investigated the backlight related function there, but I can only turn the backlight on as of now, not set the brightness or turn it off
20:00
20:00:07kugelas I haven't found backlight_set_brightness yet
20:02:25kugelcan someone look at the warning the fuze bootloader produces?
20:02:29kugelI find it very strange..
20:04:24funmanwhich warning?
20:04:39kugel/home/kugel/rbdev/rockbox-git/bootloader/show_logo.c:50: warning: passing argument 1 of ‘lcd_bitmap’ from incompatible pointer type
20:05:41funmanhttp://build.rockbox.org/shownewlog.cgi?rev=25222;type=sansafuzeboot < no warnings
20:06:06kugeloh it's on the build table?
20:07:50kugel\☺/
20:07:52funmanfuze or fuzev2 ?
20:08:15kugelfuzev2, sorry. still need to get used to it
20:08:31kugelbuttonlight works
20:08:40funmannice!
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20:11:35Zagorgevaerts: I think so?
20:11:59gevaertsZagor: well, it claims to be one hour late...
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20:12:26Zagoroh
20:12:33gevaertsThis *might* be related to this query I was running on the database
20:14:50Zagor"Ending round due to lack of clients"
20:15:10Zagorlooks like some network glitch kicked off every connection
20:15:34mt2I keep getting : Server socket disconnected! Cleanup and restart.
20:15:55Zagormt2: yeah I restarted it a few times now to see if everything was fine
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20:16:06Zagornow you're working :-)
20:16:11gevaertsPossibly the server couldn't get at the database fast enough due to my interesting query?
20:16:12mt2Ah it's building now :)
20:16:46Zagorgevaerts: maybe, but I don't think so. it didn't look like a timeout.
20:16:57gevaertsZagor: shall I run it again? :)
20:17:21Zagorwhat was it? mysqld had spent quite some time on it...
20:17:37gevaertsselect a.client,b.client, a.id as target,a.revision as revision, a.ramsize as ram ,a.binsize as bin ,a.ramsize-b.ramsize as ramdelta,a.binsize-b.binsize as bindelta from builds a,builds b where b.revision=(select max(revision) from builds where revision<a.revision and ramsize>0 and ramsize<10000000 and id=a.id) and a.ramsize>0 and a.ramsize<10000000 and a.id=b.id order by abs(ramdelta) desc limit 20;
20:17:50gevaertsBasically, "show me the 20 biggest deltas"
20:18:08gevaertsthe ramsize<10000000 is there for historical reasons
20:18:19Zagorperhaps you'd like a copy of the database for that? :)
20:18:45gevaertsActually, I suspect that I mostly would like some indexes :)
20:19:22Zagorthat's probably a good idea
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20:22:36JohannesSM64http://paste.pocoo.org/show/190421/ this is my ipod video
20:22:38JohannesSM64something broken here?
20:22:46JohannesSM64it works, but
20:22:50JohannesSM64can i remove the empty partition?
20:23:12JohannesSM64it causes some mounting annoyances
20:23:31mt2to use a commandhook, do I add -commandhook:hook.sh to runclient.sh ?
20:23:47mt2*s/:hook/=hook/
20:24:20Zagormt2: yes
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20:24:38Zagorsorry, no. add it to the rbclient.pl command line in runclient.sh
20:24:56domonokyJohannesSM64: the AppleOS (and our bootloader) is in this empty partition. so dont remove it.
20:25:13mt2Zagor: That's what I meant. Thanks !
20:25:30JohannesSM64ah :v
20:25:33kugelfunman: no "backlight brightness" on the clip yet?
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20:26:34funmankugel: is that even possible ? i can tune the contrast at least
20:27:07funmanthere's no backlight on OLED screen
20:27:32kugelthat's why the "", but contrast is probably the thing I was thinking of
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20:38:48TanKCRhello all
20:39:21TanKCRDoes anyone know of an alternative for the classic 160? I will try it even if its in alpha
20:39:57GodEaterthere's nothing to try
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20:41:21TanKCRk, thank you, have checked a couple differant options and was hoping there was something out there
20:41:39GodEateriiuc we've barely got code running on the 160
20:42:01GodEaterthere's certainly nothing to see / hear
20:42:04TanKCRdid apple lock it down or something?
20:42:12AlexPyes
20:42:21AlexPand no docs either
20:42:25GodEatermore or less the same way they've done with all their ipods since the Nano 2G
20:42:29funmanAlexP: i remember you have a clipv2 ?
20:42:29TanKCRI hate companies that pull that crap
20:42:39AlexPfunman: nope, just v1
20:42:40GodEaterthen why buy from them ?
20:43:04TanKCRAccessories, it has the most interface options, that is really the only reason
20:43:22GodEatermost of which won't work with Rockbox
20:43:30GodEatereven when / if we get it running
20:43:54TanKCRalways worth a try though, lol
20:44:33TanKCRkinda been toying with my car interface which will read most hard drive and ipod devices
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20:54:54saratogapunman: any interst in doing GSOC mentoring this summer?
20:55:22punmanno
20:55:55kugelpunman: can I use ascodec_write for i2c_write_weird?
20:56:09punmani could probably help students on irc/mailing lists but i can't promise fulltime mentoring
20:56:37punmankugel: yes it should work, usb detection, rtc, backlight etc works on Clipv2/Clip+
20:57:12kugelgood, I'm pretty sure I found backlight_set_brightness, also it does fix up the passed value a lot
20:58:16 Quit Zagor (Quit: Clint excited)
20:59:02saratogapunman: thats fine, if you're interseted in any of the projects you should still put your name down, even if you're not going to be a full time mentor
20:59:10saratogai think this is mostly about showing google we have interest
20:59:13domonokypunman: so volunteer for backup mentor in a area of your interest, it will earn you a google shirt :-)
20:59:57punmanalso i'm thinking about moving so i'm not sure i'll even have itnernet access this summer
21:00
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21:06:45punmani'll add myself in "Backup Mentors" (once gevaerts has finished editing)
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21:08:42gevaertspunman: done
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21:14:16mt2saratoga: I could add myself as a backup mentor for codecs, but I might also be applying as a student, would that be acceptable ?
21:15:00saratogamt2: I probably wouldn't if you're also applying
21:17:03kugelI think that's not posible
21:18:08mt2Yeah I thought so. Just wanted to make sure ...
21:18:26kugelhmm, sleep() doesn't work on the fuzev2
21:18:40punmankugel: if interrupts are disabled, ticks too !
21:19:49kugeloh I didn't assumed kernel or system init enables them
21:20:01kugels/didn't//
21:20:24kugelstill doesn't work
21:21:19punmancan you blink fast the button light in a kernel tick, so you know if it's running ?
21:21:32bluebrotheranyone thoughts on my svg version of the rbutil / website icon? http://www.alice-dsl.net/dominik.riebeling/rockbox/rockbox-clef-2.svg
21:21:36punmanperhaps make it blink every 50 ticks or so
21:21:53kugelthat's what I'm trying
21:21:55punmanbluebrother: 404
21:22:10kugeleven a single sleep(HZ) doesn't work
21:22:37bluebrotherpunman: strange, works for me.
21:23:06punmanah it's ok now: looks nice!
21:23:59bluebrotherit's taken from the svg logo thats in the manual, but I've rotated it a bit and made it wider.
21:24:43bluebrotherthere's also the (unrotated) first version, but that looks too thin imo, especially when considering that it might get scaled down to 16x16px or so: http://www.alice-dsl.net/dominik.riebeling/rockbox/rockbox-clef.svg
21:25:01amiconnsaratoga: 8MB and not Ondio refers to the 8MB mod for hdd-based archoses
21:25:09amiconnAnd the 22% are exactly for that
21:25:52saratogaamiconn: thats what i figured, I added it to the config files, so hopefully its working again (previously it would give 122% of the nonsense value of 5 mA)
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21:27:08amiconnsaratoga: You only added it for the v1 recorder. It also applies to the fm, v2, and to the Player
21:28:04kugelpunman: interesting, the scrollwheel version timer setup doesn't appear to work anymore. sleep works if I #undef HAVE_SCROLLWHEEL
21:28:06amiconnbluebrother: Does Qt provide a method to evaluate regular experssions?
21:28:47domonokyamiconn: yes, QRegExp
21:28:52bluebrotheramiconn: yes, see http://doc.trolltech.com/4.6/qregexp.html
21:29:21amiconnPerhaps it would be possible to put the regular expressions in a separate file, so they could both be used by voice.pl and built into rbutil?
21:29:32*bluebrother too slow
21:29:38amiconnIt would avoid duplication
21:29:45bluebrotheramiconn: just wanted to suggest something like that ;-)
21:29:47punmankugel: where is the scrollwheel version timer setup ? (i know nothing about scrollwheel)
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21:30:43kugelfunman: kernel-as3525.c
21:31:13funmanhm so that would mean dbop isn't working?
21:31:29kugelpossibly
21:31:39bluebrotherok, "QRegExp is modeled on Perl's regexp language." sounds good :)
21:31:43saratogaamiconn: ah so all of them need a check for 8MB of RAM?
21:31:44funmanperhaps try changing the CGU_DBOP divider
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21:32:17amiconnsaratoga: Yes. I don't know how many 8MB modded archoses of each type existed, or still exist, though
21:32:35amiconnThis doesn't apply to Ondios because of no spinups
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21:34:08domonokythe "problem" with string corrections in rbutil for voice, is more the question where to put it best in rbutil.
21:34:28amiconn"where" in what sense?
21:34:35amiconnThe user doesn't need to see them
21:34:47domonokywhere in the code.
21:36:20domonokythe current corrections in voice.pl use a hierarchy of language -> tts vendor -> tts voice, which corrections on all levels. you need to find a spot in rbutils code where you know all that, and its still a common place for all voice operations.
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21:40:14liarTheSeven: if that additional battery consumption is because of iloader, do you have an idea what could be wrong?
21:40:35*domonoky remembers, that since his last rework all voice operations go through TalkGenerator, so thats probably the place where the voice corrections should go :-)
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21:45:07TheSevenliar: i'm not sure about it, it's just an idea that some hardware init might be different
21:47:29liaryeah but which one?
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22:00
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22:22:42bluebroth3rpixelma, domonoky: any thoughts on the icon svg?
22:23:24domonokybluebroth3r: i think its rotated a bit too much. the thicker lines are fine.
22:23:42*bluebroth3r shouldn't have mentioned its rotated :)
22:25:32 Quit shaggy-h (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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22:26:45domonokyit looks a bit like it will fall over :-)
22:27:46bluebroth3rremember that it will get scaled down in most cases. Not sure if windows will actually use it at all or if that uses the resource icon.
22:27:55bluebroth3rslightly less rotated clef: http://www.alice-dsl.net/dominik.riebeling/rockbox/rockbox-clef-3.svg
22:28:05***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:28:29*bluebroth3r plans testing on KDE with biiig icons later
22:28:46domonokylooks better. use it :-)
22:29:04liarTheSeven: which part in the nano2g is likely to cause ~10mA additional battery consumption?
22:29:16 Join CGL [0] (~CGL@190.79.133.232)
22:30:17TheSevenno idea
22:30:28TheSevenbut i'm also observing 6-7mA too much
22:31:03liarah okay so its not just a weirdness of my nano2g again :-)
22:31:27TheSeven22-23 instead of 16-17 over here...
22:31:35TheSeven(backlight off)
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22:38:23liarseems similar to mine
22:40:39 Join DV [0] (~DV@218.248.65.243)
22:40:45DVhi everyone
22:41:14DVi would like no <3 to work with Rockbox upcoming summer
22:41:34DVI am a potential GSOC student
22:41:54DVand would like to undertake a project for making Rockbox as an application
22:42:02gevaertsWelcome!
22:42:23Tornei assume we put that on the list already
22:42:30Torneit seems like an obvious one ;)
22:42:35gevaertsWe did, yes
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22:44:13gevaertsDV: the project selection is still ongoing, so we can't say for sure yet that we'll be participating, but RaaA is definitely something we're interested in
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22:53:05kugelDV_: so would I :)
22:54:15linuxstbDV_: If you're serious about working on Rockbox for SoC, then the best way you can show us is to start getting involved in the project now - i.e. download the code and start submitting patches.
22:54:58gevaertskugel: the same goes for you ;)
22:55:09DV_k, sure
22:55:16DV_kugel: which project u interested in?
22:55:40kugelrockbox as an app as well
22:56:00kugeland please use real words :)
22:57:13domonokyDV_: do you have any rockboxable mp3players ? and for which RaaA platform would you be interested in ?
22:57:30DV_Androids and Iphones
22:58:59DV_domonoky: i would like to suggest also one thing for discussion
22:59:02domonokywe just discussed, that iphones arent a ideal target. they wont let us into the appstore, so it would only work on jailbraked iphones
22:59:16DV_ohhh.
22:59:20DV_k,
22:59:24kugeldomonoky: has anyone tried? :)
22:59:43kugelwould be hilarious if they let us
23:00
23:00:06domonokykugel: not with rockbox. but they dont allow gpl and any apps which duplicate functionaltiy.
23:00:17gevaertskugel: if they would do that, for how long do you think it would stay in?
23:00:28 Quit stripwax (Quit: http://miranda-im.org)
23:00:28domonokyDV_: tell us your suggestion ! :-)
23:00:42kugelthey don't allow gpl? I wasn't aware of that
23:01:18DV_yeah, not even me, I was thinking of
23:01:25DV_Flex 4 SDK and AIR 2.O
23:01:32DV_but now that Iphone is out
23:02:32gevaertsWell, I wouldn't say it's definitely out, but it's not out preferred platform
23:03:10DV_but android is still important right?
23:03:43gevaertsdefinitely
23:04:01DV_i'll play with rockbox codes than for a while, i think java can be used for app on android easily
23:04:03domonokyandroid is much much better target
23:04:32domonokyDV_: you would have to use the NDK on android, rockbox is C not java.
23:04:35kugelwe'd probably want to avoid java as much as possible. our entire code base is C
23:04:52 Quit dfkt (Quit: -= SysReset 2.53=- Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.)
23:05:05domonokyso probably just some java loaders and in/output wrappers.
23:05:43gevaertsAt least to get started, later on you can think about moving bits of the UI to java I guess
23:06:02DV_k, :)
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23:13:37pamaurywhat is HAVE_EEPROM_SETTINGS ?
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23:15:05 Part pamaury
23:15:07domonokypamaury: i think it controls if a target has a EEPROM to permanently store some settings. other targets without htis store these as (binary) file on hd.
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23:15:44domonokyi think only the old archos players have this eeprom settings.
23:16:16 Quit DV_ (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
23:16:50pamaurydomonoky: but then, why when it's enabled, dircache and tagcache use it to storage settings on a file in the hd ? At least, that's what I understand from the code
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23:18:38checkeris the playlist viewer included in 3.5?
23:19:12checkeris the playlist viewer included in 3.5?
23:19:43gevaertsI think so, yes
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23:19:53CIA-5New commit by 03lenzone10 (r25224): Updated italian translation.
23:20:08domonokypamaury: sorry it dont know :-)
23:20:31checkeris there a error in this then, "%Vp|2|%pp. %ia|%pp. %d2|" - sorry first time working with the viewer
23:23:37JdGordon%d cant go in the viewer
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23:24:41checkerah.
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23:27:41linuxstbmt2: Are you mt?
23:28:03mt2linuxstb: Yes
23:28:41linuxstbmt2: If you're editing the SoC page, please come to #rockbox-gsoc, where we're all discussing it.
23:29:20scorchethat goes for anyone else interested in mentoring GSoC projects, or having any say in it at all, really ;) (the join #rockbox-gsoc part)
23:29:43mt2linuxstb: OK, Thanks for notifying me. I was just fixing a (really) tiny spelling mistake though.
23:30:35mt2scorche: I'm getting that the channel is invite-only, and that I need an invitation from another member.
23:31:02scorchemt2: you need to identify yourself to freenode...only people with a claok can join
23:32:19 Quit mt (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.8/20100202165920])
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23:38:59CIA-5New commit by 03kugel (r25225): A tiny bit more Sansa Fuze v2 work. ...
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23:40:27checkerif the playlist viewer can display filepath (using %fp) why cant it display directories?
23:41:07JdGordonbecause it cant (yet)
23:42:15checkerok :D
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23:46:03checkeranyway to center it?
23:46:13JdGordon%ac
23:46:26checkerput it before %Vp? or in the sections
23:46:34JdGordoninside it
23:47:13checker%Vp|2|%ac%pp. %it|%ac%pp. %fn|
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23:48:25checkernot working
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