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#rockbox log for 2010-04-17

00:02:03CIA-5New commit by 03kugel (r25657): Use API call instead of accessing a global variable for receiving the current thread.
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00:11:45CIA-5New commit by 03kugel (r25658): Convert macro to inline function and move it into .c file.
00:12:10kugelthese freaky binsize changes
00:21:11CIA-5New commit by 03kugel (r25659): Cleanup thread_entry definition a bit. Reorder members so that related ones are next to each other and move a pretty hidden define into config.h. ...
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01:08:44***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:11:07ollebeok so what's a good way to make a patch out of this code tree? should I put it somewhere in my copy of the svn?
01:13:47saratogaollebe: you should just be able to type "svn diff" in the root of your checkout
01:14:23ollebesaratoga: yes but where to put the files? under tools, utils, or elsewhere?
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01:14:47saratogaoh sorry misunderstood
01:14:55saratogautils is probably best
01:15:43ollebeit duplicates some source files from an old version of RB, like fat.c, disk.c, etc. will that be a problem?
01:16:09saratogamaybe, i would post the patch now and see what people say
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02:02:21 Join lordbah [0] (
02:04:38lordbahCan I just rm .rockbox/doom? I couldn't see any way to avoid installing it when using automatic installation, or uninstalling just doom via Rockbox Utility.
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02:05:55lordbahAh, space for several more tunes. Thanks.
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02:22:01PsirusHello, the Album Artist tag isn't working, what to do?
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02:31:42detaoshello all!
02:31:55detaosany chance the 6th generation ipods will be supported soon?
02:37:19krazykitnot really. no one seems to be working on it in any significant sense
02:37:53detaossadness ... is the 6th gen that significantly different from the 5th gen?
02:39:07detaoshow hard is it to set up the dev environment for rockbox?
02:39:14detaosie, what tools do i need?
02:40:00detaos(i run a debian derivative called sidux)
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02:44:16detaosthanks krazykit
02:44:24*detaos wanders off to play with the source
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03:08:46***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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03:12:00detaoscan rockbox not be compiled with gcc 4.4.x?
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03:19:49saratogadetaos: last I heard it can, but it may or may not work correctly on all devices
03:20:41detaossaratoga: ok ... i was just a little surprised when the setup script downloaded and installed gcc 4.0.3
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03:51:52R6Vanyone on?
03:53:17R6Vwas looking at the ipod video 5th gen and read that the 80GB version has a newer FW on it will that affect the installation of rockbox to it?
03:56:12R6Vany thoughts?
04:04:44saratogaR6V: I think you misread
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04:20:43ollebethe patch is uploaded.
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04:28:26R6Vok so nop problems then corect?
04:29:03R6Vreason for my asking is because i'm very tempted to bid on a 80gb ipod video 5th gen right now on ebay
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04:36:57soapIt appears you have confused the 5th generation (plastic face (black or white), chrome back) with the 6th generation (metal face (silver or black)), R6V. While the 6th generation does have different firmware - the key difference is that it is encrypted firmware.
04:38:03soapBeing that you appear to be in New York, R6V, I think you might very well find better pricing and the ability to inspect the goods before paying (to be sure of the generation at least) on Craigslist.
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04:52:17R6Vyes very true, havent thought of looking there yet but I am very familiar witht he site.
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04:53:49R6Vreason for the scare came from reading the wiki info
04:54:36R6Vright next to the picture of the ipod video was this"Hardware and firmware updated with 60 GB model replaced with 80 GB model on 12 September 2006"
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09:39:13S_a_i_n_tI've been through last nights/todays logs...and didn't see anything jump out in regards to my question about seeking (fast-forward/whatever). Does anyone happen to know if RB is *supposed* to keep seeking past the currently playing track, and into the next, and the one after etc. ?
09:39:39S_a_i_n_tAnd if it *is*, why doesn't the "now playing"/playlist position info change also?
09:42:16pixelmasounds a bit like a bug to me and I tried what happens on my Ondio which is hwcodec and hence uses a different playback/buffering engine and that doesn't happen there. It just stays at the end of the track, you can keep the button pressed as much as you like
09:42:52S_a_i_n_tIf I hold down seek, and it hits the end of the currently playing song there is no visual prompt that it has continued seeking into the next track at all. The "now playing'/playlist position etc. don't get updated until |<< or >>| is released.
09:44:37S_a_i_n_tI discovered it accidentally by holding down seek and then losing track of what I was doing having a conversation with the GF, then I noticed it had "seeked"(?) from track 1 right through to track 9 :-S
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09:46:12S_a_i_n_tI guess I'll need some input from someone who knows about swcodec & seeking before I go posting things on the tracker though.
09:46:30pixelmaif I release the button on the Ondio it plays the last 3..5 seconds of the track I was seeking in and goes on to the next
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09:47:01S_a_i_n_tAhhhh, well yes, I have a *very* different result ;)
09:48:13pixelmathat's why I mentioned it
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09:49:18S_a_i_n_tIf the "now playing" & "playlist position" were updated....then it would almost be a feature ;)
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10:24:59pixelmaB4gder: is the build (and packaging) system your or Zagor's field (or both)? The wrong builds in the zips bug is getting annoying...
10:25:30B4gderits been mostly zagor's area lately
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10:31:06S_a_i_n_tHas anyone tried seeing if it happens if the roolku monsters are taken out of the farm for a while?
10:31:20S_a_i_n_tThat seems to be when it started...but, perhaps just coincidence.
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10:36:36S_a_i_n_t Applying: to clean SVN gets me: :( I guess I need JdGordon for this though...
10:37:02pixelmaI think it was there before but now happens more often - that's why I think it's some timing problem (wild guess though)
10:40:08S_a_i_n_tThe question to ask is, *why* is it happpening more often? And, why did it seem to coincide with a large handful of *very* fast machines to the build farm?
10:40:27S_a_i_n_tMy guess would have been that roolku's machines *improved* matters...
10:42:43pixelmaif the same amount of thing happens at a way shorter time, it's more likely that some things happen at almost the same time
10:45:35pixelmaI noticed that the build that actually end up in wrong zips seem to always been built by one of roolku's clients but I guess that those just build quite a large percentage of all builds so it doesn't have to mean much
10:46:33pixelma(by looking at the build table info)
10:48:28S_a_i_n_tYes, I thought that too...but roolku's machines are just dominating the builds. Not a lot of other build clients stand a chance against those beasts.
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10:53:59S_a_i_n_tIt'll be a shame if/when they have to be taken down. Build times are *pretty damn quick* lately.
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11:08:14stripwax_Anyone else noticed the binsize page is looking a bit random these days? . is that real or is something funny going on with build servers (different gcc versions maybe?)
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11:08:49pixelmasometimes there are wrong builds in the zips
11:08:57***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11:09:40stripwax_i thought something must be up when a revision which changes a .tex file generates a 1.6MB binsize difference ...
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11:10:36pixelmayes, it doesn't only mean weird bin size jumps but also broken builds (I wasn't aware much of that until I gave it some thought)
11:11:37stripwax_pixelma - so for example, if I simply click on the (say) Samsung YH820 build link, the zip I download might contain bits of Sansa Fuze code?
11:11:41stripwax_that's a bit scary
11:11:48stripwax_the broken build bit.
11:13:14stripwax_right. I think I've experienced that at some point in fact (i've experienced broken builds got from the download page, and noticed recently I have some rockbox.gigabeat file on my ipod)
11:13:20pixelmastripwax_: e.g.
11:14:24stripwax_pixelma - that thread suggests the build system is corrected. or is saratoga saying 'on a rebuild it will be fine' (which isn't even true if I understand it - on a rebuilt it *might* be fine, but it might be iriver100 or gigabeat F, who knows)
11:14:40pixelmayeah, unpacking such a build means that most plugins and codecs will be replaced but not the firmware file. It'll usually fix itself but you'll also gather some stuff you don't need
11:15:21pixelmastripwax_: no, he just means that the next build round usually doesn't suffer the same error agaun
11:15:29pixelmaagain too
11:15:30stripwax_yeah, fair enough
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11:26:18JdGordonS_a_i_n_t: come up with a list of other tgas which make sense for the progressbar style?
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11:35:54S_a_i_n_tAll I can think of (atm) is battery %bl, volume (already done) and progressbar (again, already done.)
11:36:32S_a_i_n_tDid you see what happened to me earlier trying to patch with the battery-progressbar?
11:36:59JdGordonmake clean
11:37:05S_a_i_n_tJdGordon: ^
11:37:10S_a_i_n_tit was clean.
11:37:17S_a_i_n_tbrand new directory.
11:37:18JdGordonmy patch couldnt have done that
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11:38:09S_a_i_n_tsvn diff comes back ok, and the sim builds without the patch.
11:40:07pixelmaand it was a new build dir or one you ran "make clean" in?
11:40:16S_a_i_n_tlines 7 and 8 in that pastebin seem to reference battery level/, it made sense to me that it was complaining about the patch.
11:40:30S_a_i_n_tpixelma: new build dir
11:40:48S_a_i_n_tin my "clean" tree.
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11:44:57S_a_i_n_tAnd by "svn diff comes back ok", I mean "the tree is fine, no modified files at all" and not just "there doesn't seem to be anything that would affect it in there"
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11:50:46S_a_i_n_tFor a *total* sanity check I'm building a sim in a brand new dir, in a brand new checkout.
11:51:26JdGordongcc could be barfing because it is missing the header for battery_level() but I woudltn expect thatg
11:52:14S_a_i_n_tHhehe...I've learned not to expect anything here ;)
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12:57:58S_a_i_n_tJdGordon: Hmmmmm, ok. The sim built this time. but is anything to be concerned about?
12:58:41S_a_i_n_tBuilding a sim normally throws a bunch of funky lookin' stuff at me, so I'm never quite sure what should/shouldn't be there.
13:09:01***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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13:22:28JdGordonS_a_i_n_t: thats safe to ignore
13:24:26S_a_i_n_tsweet, thanks.
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13:33:06JdGordonstrlcat() expects the size of the dest right? not the remaining free space?
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13:41:03CIA-5New commit by 03jdgordon (r25660): use strlcat() instead of snprintf in the playlist viewer, and fix it so it will show the whole playlist if it would fit in the viewport (instead of ...
13:42:39S_a_i_n_tJdGordon: The battry-progressbar seems to work fine. The only "problem" I have with it is that it makes it difficult (well, I haven't figured out a way to do it yet) to display a visual queue (like, turning red for example) when the battery hits "X"% works fine.
13:43:06JdGordonit is arbitrary to is there any need?
13:43:15JdGordonand it is simple maths :)
13:43:28JdGordon0 is empty, 100 is full, so the first 10% of pixels should be red
13:43:40S_a_i_n_tbut, think about will *always* display using one bitmap.
13:43:44JdGordonunless you mean the whole thing shouldnt be red untill the end?
13:43:54stripwaxthat makes sense to me....
13:44:22JdGordonprobably do something like the %pv silliness we had?
13:44:36S_a_i_n_twell, the way I had it using bitmapstrips when it got to 10% it turned red.
13:45:59JdGordondoes the batt level work the same as the middle bit of volume?
13:46:13JdGordoni.e it works out the value based on how many conditions you give it?
13:46:43S_a_i_n_tyes, I believe so.
13:47:55S_a_i_n_tTo be completely honest, that conversation about %pv and conditionals etc (what a f**king headache) left me just shaking my head, and I haven't looked at it since ;)
13:49:41S_a_i_n_toh, except with the %bl?< etc. the first segment of the string is for "unknown value", which I don;t think %pv does.
13:50:47S_a_i_n_tOther than that, yes, it works the same as %pv, or the "middle bit" of %pv rather
13:51:18JdGordonso you could do 2/3 different bmp bars
13:51:53S_a_i_n_tI thought about that, but, once the new value is hat/discarded..wouldn;t it stop srawing the old one?
13:52:01JdGordonexcecpt you'd really need to do 4 to make it not look odd
13:52:18JdGordontry it and see?
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13:55:59JdGordonanyone care to test a quick patch for the playlsit viewer?
13:56:07JdGordon(doesnt fix the bug, although it just might)
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13:59:55JdGordonhehe, I tihnk there is a new wierd issue with the viewer. Depending onw how it buffers, it is possible for a track in the future (which is fully buffered) to not show up in the list with id3, but the next tracks to
14:00:17JdGordonI don't think that is worth adding hacks to fix
14:01:08JdGordonAH! no it cant :)
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14:02:04CIA-5New commit by 03jdgordon (r25661): drop the playlist viewer stack usage by reading straiught off the buffer instead of copying it.
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14:06:40Luca_Snice green delta :)
14:07:01JdGordonmeh, not small enough to care about
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14:07:51Luca_Sthe mail by CS Tech sounds interesting
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14:17:03CIA-5New commit by 03funman (r25662): mkamsboot: accept Clip+ OF v01.02.13
14:19:22S_a_i_n_tJdGordon:, I'm surprised as hell that the parser accepted this...but, meh.
14:19:36S_a_i_n_tThe problem is though "Fillbar-RED" is never drawn.
14:19:42S_a_i_n_twhich I don;t understand.
14:22:18S_a_i_n_tI thought I'd be a smartass and reuse the battery image, except for the first fifth, and the code seems to suggest that this worked. Except of course for the fact that it still keeps drawing "Battery Fillbar" when it should be drawing "Battery Fillbar-RED" for the final ~20%
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14:40:01pixelmaJdGordon: I experimented a bit with these playlist viewer tags on my Ondio and use the following line in a viewport that only appears if a next file is there (buffered): %Vp|1|%ar%>%pp. |-| While it doesn't mess with the playlist there is one oddity which is also playlist related (maybe a lead but don't know) - this line is supposed to show the next track's playlist position and it works except for the one track before the last where it shows
14:40:02pixelma nothing (not even the " - " for the unknown case)
14:40:47JdGordonthat is probaly fixed now
14:41:19JdGordonyou mean the last track not showing right?
14:41:25JdGordonnot the one before last?
14:41:35pixelmaanother weird thing I just noticed is that %> actually displayed as >> if I remove the % I get it correctly. This only happens in the playlist viewer thing
14:42:26pixelmaif I listen to the one before the last, it should show me the last track's playlist position if possible, which doesn't work
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14:43:09pixelmanot the very latest revision though
14:43:58pixelmaoh, missing the last item... let's see
14:45:54CIA-5New commit by 03jdgordon (r25663): fix escaped chars being displayed twice in the playlist viewer (i.e %> showing as >> )
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14:47:39gevaertsstripwax: from what I could find out, the correct targets get built and uploaded, and then they get swapped on the server
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14:54:50JdGordonAAARRRRR.... what we bloody need is a way for one tag to use the value from another more easily
14:55:11JdGordonideally we should be able to say "this bar should be used to draw token X between 0 and 10%
14:55:19JdGordonand this one between 10% and 100%
14:55:22S_a_i_n_tI have no idea why the line I pastebinned isn't working right.
14:55:28S_a_i_n_tTrying to figure it out now.
14:55:51S_a_i_n_tand yes, and yes.
14:57:33S_a_i_n_tJdGordon: If it helps...that line I pastebined earlier, only the last case of %bl|battery Fillbar|-|etc. gets drawn.
14:57:43S_a_i_n_tI can't however, explain why.
14:58:00gevaertsThrow out all the fancy WPS tags, and allow using lua for fancy themes
14:58:58S_a_i_n_ta long time ago, wasn't %pb a "fancy tag"? ;)
14:59:39JdGordongevaerts: or that :)
15:01:47pixelmaS_a_i_n_t: did you try what happens if all those bars are not at the same spot?
15:02:48S_a_i_n_tHmmmm, yes. Pissing around tells me that in only draws the last case of "Battery Fillbar"
15:03:13S_a_i_n_tpixelma: no, I haven't.
15:04:19JdGordonhmm, looks like bars are always drawn... need to put some fancy logic in there so they can be used in conditionals
15:04:42JdGordonyou're getting the bottom 10% of the full bar bmp?
15:04:57S_a_i_n_tPity that discussion about %pv exploded like it did.
15:05:11S_a_i_n_tI would've noticed this sooner ;)
15:05:19*pixelma is getting scared by JdGordon's fancy logic
15:05:37S_a_i_n_tJdGordon: yes.
15:05:47S_a_i_n_tit only draws the "full case" image
15:06:13S_a_i_n_t"full image" case? know what I meant ;) yes, what you said ;P
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15:09:05***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:12:02JdGordonheck, we could even add a new tag which takes the next tag as input (requiring it to be in the known set) which can provide a value and a max to do this
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15:18:14JdGordonunless we start giving bars id's now, and then have a new tag with a list of bars with a dynamic range of 0-100%? %bar|%pv|a|b|c| so a would be drawn in the first 33% of pv, then b, then c
15:18:49pixelmaJdGordon: I now get the default wps with the wps that worked before but had two >> in it due to %>
15:19:21JdGordonpastebin the pv line
15:19:22JdGordonVp line
15:19:36S_a_i_n_tnow now, men can't multitask remember. ;)
15:20:27JdGordonslashdot says everyone can hold 2 things at one.. oh whats that?
15:20:47pixelmastill the same as before
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15:21:24pixelma%Vp|1|%ar%>%pp. |-|
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15:24:36JdGordonpastebin the debugwps text
15:24:40JdGordonand the whole wps
15:25:03pixelmadebugwps doesn't build here
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15:47:23pixelmaJdGordon: the problem seems to be now a %% that I use to display a percent sign (for battery level)
15:47:46JdGordonin a Vp?
15:48:21S_a_i_n_tNoooo! Don't take away my %%
15:48:29*S_a_i_n_t uses this tag a LOT ;)
15:48:39pixelmano, just in a usual viewport
15:48:50JdGordonthat was always a problem then...
15:48:59JdGordonnot sure how that commit could have affected it though
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15:49:09pixelmait worked so far
15:52:25pixelmaI'm a bit puzzled though - ERR: Failed parsing on line 29 : ERR: Invalid parameter list for token 100: "No token" - line 29 is just %bl%% - if I comment out the complete line, I get "ERR: Failed parsing on line 29 : ERR: Invalid parameter list for token 97: "String ''""
15:53:04S_a_i_n_tdoesn't that just mean it's hit another error?
15:53:16S_a_i_n_tand, line numbers are rarely accurate.
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15:54:07pixelmaerr.. this WPS worked fine for ages
15:54:39*pixelma will go back some revisions and try again
15:55:07S_a_i_n_tHmmm. Odd then, but, according the the debug output, I'd be looking at either line 96, 97, or 98.
15:55:13S_a_i_n_tpixelma: ^
15:56:24pixelmalook again
15:56:46S_a_i_n_tyeppers, just gotcha then.
15:56:51S_a_i_n_tweirder still.
15:57:34S_a_i_n_tthat is with line 29 commented out completely?
15:59:24S_a_i_n_tI seem to find that if the debug output points you to lets say, line 10, then you *really* should be looking at lines 9, 10 and/or 11.
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16:00:09pixelmaa hmm... I now commented out the line below and "reenabled the %bl one - now the WPS works
16:00:17pixelmathe line below reads:
16:00:31S_a_i_n_tyes, the output is often off by 1 line.
16:01:19pixelmaone of the changes to %pv then
16:01:51S_a_i_n_tthough, it *shouldn't* be.
16:02:09pixelmawell, it worked fine before
16:02:50S_a_i_n_tAFAIK (even with the changes to %pv) this should still work, and if it doesn't (which it clearly doesn't) then it needs some attention.
16:02:59S_a_i_n_tAs that will break *MANY* themes.
16:03:12S_a_i_n_tpossibly including cabbie
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16:05:53S_a_i_n_tThe whole idea (or at least one of them) with the changes to %pv to allow it to work as a progressbar also, was that it would still leave the original functions of the tag intact.
16:06:04S_a_i_n_tThis apparently hasn't happened.
16:06:12fmlkugel: re your last commit to thread.h: I would protect the definition of wakeup_ext_cb by HAVE_WAKEUP_EXT_CB, not by HAVE_EXTENDED_MESSAGING_AND_NAME. In the end, it's the same, but it would seem more naturally to me.
16:06:20S_a_i_n_tGood job for spotting it I guess :)
16:06:38kugelfml: sounds good, can you do it?
16:06:40pixelmathe shipped Archos themes all work
16:07:23S_a_i_n_tpixelma: Hmmm, so I the difference that you have text in your %pv line?
16:07:27pixelmabut many (if not all) have graphical representation of volume level
16:07:34fmlkugel: I can. Is it safe? I'd only test it for the sim on one platform. OK?
16:07:42S_a_i_n_tcould you try taking out "line" and "mute" and see if it works then?
16:08:55pixelmathe problem seems to be the %pv inside it
16:09:34S_a_i_n_tas "%?pv<%xda|%xdb|etc." is just the same as %?pv<mute|volume 1|volume 2|etc.
16:09:49S_a_i_n_tIt seems like a very weird (and not intended) bug.
16:10:01pixelmaI just took the %s out there (so I'll get "pv" displayed) and it worls
16:10:05pixelmaworks too
16:10:28pixelmaah... I can imagine something
16:10:44S_a_i_n_tthe line you posted had no %s
16:10:59pixelma"two % signs"
16:11:48S_a_i_n_tErrr...the line you posted didn't have 2 %'s either.
16:11:58pixelmaI guess it expexts a %pv|barbitmapsomethingparameters| because I use plain %pv and then the | follows (but belongs to the conditional actually)
16:11:59*S_a_i_n_t is confused...
16:12:27pixelmaone each before the pv
16:12:38pixelma%?pv<mute|pv|line|pv> is what I used now to test
16:13:20S_a_i_n_tso, it's trying to nest conditional after the %pv?
16:13:26S_a_i_n_tis that what you're saying?
16:13:30pixelmano doesn't work right. I know that much ;)
16:14:02pixelmait now expects a bar definition and doesn't realise that the | belongs to the conditional
16:14:31S_a_i_n_ttry using two |'s?
16:14:44JdGordonno, that wont work
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16:14:53S_a_i_n_tjust curious...I don;t really expect that to work
16:14:54JdGordonuse a space after %pv
16:15:01JdGordonI'm thinking of a clean way to fix thigh
16:15:06pixelmayeah, that's what I prepared now
16:15:26pixelmathe clean fix would have been another tag
16:16:07pixelmathat works but it's a workaround for a bug
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16:22:08CIA-5New commit by 03alle (r25664): Use a more natural guard for the callback definition
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16:24:22*pixelma suspects another "different conditional separators" discussion coming up though
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16:40:33kugelI think the conditional separator is fine. the way how parameters are specified for tags probably isn't though
16:42:01kugelthe overuse of '|' is what makes WPSes hardly readable afterall IMO
16:42:40*kugel could imagine something like %V(x,y,...) instead
16:42:46S_a_i_n_t%Sx is a primes example of "when good |'s go bad"
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16:43:17pixelmaI agree
16:43:28pixelma%pv is too now
16:43:56pixelmait also breaks things, not only looks bad
16:44:00kugelwe could easily change it if we had a script to fix all themes on the theme site at the same time
16:44:13S_a_i_n_tNot that I have a better way of doing it though, I think it'd be equally odd to use "|" in X circumstance, but "," in Y
16:44:19S_a_i_n_tit's a tricky one.
16:45:10kugelwell, if we'd change something then once for all, i.e. X would be only conditional lists and Y only parameters
16:46:18kugelI'd be all for breaking things if someone made a script to fix the themes on the theme site
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16:49:21S_a_i_n_tkugel: Why fix them? Isn't it up to the author to keep them maintained?
16:49:49S_a_i_n_tSend out a mail, say "were changing this, if you still want your theme up...then change X and Y"
16:49:57kugelbecause we can
16:50:41S_a_i_n_tthat isn't done currently if something gets broken though.
16:50:53S_a_i_n_tIt just says "doesn;t work with "X" build"
16:51:06kugelright, but theoretically we have the ability
16:51:30kugelwe don't do it yet because usually the changes don't break 100% of the themes but only a very small subset
16:51:57gevaertsS_a_i_n_t: we can't really fix problems that are caused by the wps being technically incorrect in the first place and the parser getting more strict
16:52:18gevaertsand that's most of the breakage we've seen on the theme site so far
16:52:20S_a_i_n_tI think it's probably be easier to use the themesite to generate a list of "broken" themes, them put out a bulk email saying the theme needs attention if it is to continue to be hosted.
16:53:16kugelnot necessarily. we can't send out emails upon breakage yet either p
16:57:33kugelgevaerts: I updated my pth branch, could you try it on your phone/shivaplug again?
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17:01:25B4gderscan-build should be very interesting to run on rockbox
17:01:35B4gderit's the clang static code analyzer
17:01:54gevaertsB4gder: I ran it once. IIRC it found three things
17:02:33B4gderit found 60+ on both libssh2 and curl and they are tiny in comparison...
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17:03:02gevaertsI suspect it got confused by our many defines
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17:03:24B4gderright, to be really good it'd have to run once for each target build...
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17:20:02gevaertskugel: building now
17:20:25kugelgevaerts: what OS does your shivaplug run?
17:20:34gevaertsdebian stable
17:20:48gevaerts's horribly slow for building though
17:21:02kugeldo you think your cross compiled rockboxui would also run on my mini?
17:21:33gevaertswe could try
17:21:56gevaertsIt's not cross compiled though
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17:25:30kugelah, even better :p
17:25:42gevaertsit still segfaults on n900
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17:37:15PaulPositionHmmm, how does one go about removing stuff from the manuals? Like the e200-series manual includes a part about a 'plugin application alarm clock' which would have been interesting (since there's no cpu wake-up on sansas) but that plugin seemingly never made it into csv (hasn't been touched for years, either)...
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17:42:46PaulPositionHold on.. well, it seems there's an other alarm plugin that made it in recently? By FunMan (Clement P.C.) but it isn't showing up on my e200.. Guess I'll re-download the vmware image and start poking through.. where would I look for assigning a plug in to a specific target?
17:44:16n1sapps/plugins/SOURCES apps/plugins/SUBDIRS
17:44:30n1sthat one should be in for all though
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17:46:45PaulPositionthanks n1s I'll have some fun reading through, even though by the time I'm done it will probably have been already fixed since four or more builds.. ;)
17:47:02PaulPosition(or releases :o )
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17:50:34gevaertskugel: still doesn't work. I propose that if you don't get things running on your mini2440, we can have a look at devcon
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17:54:48kugelgevaerts: good idea
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18:00:02dirtyfrankMy iPod keeps freezing up and ejecting itself when I'm transferring files. Does anyone know what's going on and how to fix it?
18:00:35stripwaxnot without much more information, I'm afraid. make/model/OS/version/rockbox version/ etc?
18:01:01stripwaxum, probably don't need make, since that's Apple :)
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18:02:21dirtyfrank5th gen/video formatted Win/using Mac OS/ Rockbox 3.5.1
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18:03:12stripwaxdirtyfrank, which mac OS? If you haven't disabled the USB HID stuff, that can apparently caused problems, I understand, with some mac OS versions
18:03:34dirtyfrankOh I didn't know that.
18:04:23stripwaxi don't have an ipod (or rockbox manual) to hand, but it's something like rockbox settings -> usb -> hid -> disable
18:04:29dirtyfrankIs that on the player itself?
18:05:44dirtyfrankSet to "no" I assume?
18:07:33dirtyfrankOk, I'll see if that helps. Thanks a lot.
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18:09:42PaulPositionHmm.. searching out why the Sansa e200 has no plugin 'Alarm Clock'.. Seems apps/plugins/SOURCES loads it when "config_rtc" is defined.. now I know e200 has realtime clock, but where in the code are those things defined? I'm going all over the firmware and bootloader branches trying stuff right and left but... :p
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18:16:00stripwaxdirtyfrank - alternatively, you could see if using a newer (or older) rockbox version helps - i.e. a current build (as opposed to a release build). but 3.5.1 ought to be stable and ought to work ok; unless you've discovered a new bug by chance
18:16:17S_a_i_n_tPaulPosition: "\firmware\export\config"
18:18:36PaulPositionthanks mate, but I just had the (newbish) feeling that, maybe, I'm stupid and let rbutil install release instead of current.. checking up on that (should have done that an hour ago lol)..
18:18:43TornePaulPosition: the e200 does have the RTC enabled
18:20:27S_a_i_n_tgoing by its config, it has RTC, but not HAVE_RTC_ALARM
18:20:55PaulPositionWell, there it was. Plugin was fairly recently included and I stupidly installed 3.5.1 instead of current when using rbutil (I'm used to manually installing on my h10)... So, doh.
18:20:58TorneS_a_i_n_t: yes, but that's not needed for the alarm clock plugin
18:21:07PaulPositionSaint - You're right, it doesn't have CPU wake-up capability :(
18:21:32S_a_i_n_tTorne: Thanks, good to know.
18:21:44PaulPositionPlugin needs it to stay on, but it's better than nothing. Thanks to FunMan (Clement) for it :)
18:21:47TorneS_a_i_n_t: the plugin just keeps the player on until the given tim ethen starts playback :)
18:22:37S_a_i_n_tA little weird, but I guess if you can't wake the device it's your only option ;)
18:22:47PaulPositionI'll install the vmware image anyway, who knows I may some day attempt to fix something that actually *needs* fixed :p
18:22:55gevaertsPaulPosition: funman is another person :)
18:23:00PaulPositionoops. :p
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18:32:41ollebeDoes anyone know why the datasheet for the Samsung SA58 SoC has been published online? There's a large watermark that says "CONFIDENTIAL" on every page... how illegal would it be to use it?
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18:49:54n1sollebe: it is likely to be copyright to samsung and without their permission; copying it is of course not allowed; the confidential bit means nothing as long as you didn't sign an NDA (or work for samsung) :)
18:50:12n1seh, IANAL of course
18:50:33dirtyfrankIs the person here that was helping me with my self-ejecting iPod?
18:50:45ollebebut let's say i just copy it to make browser cache, that'd make it legal then. :)
18:50:56stripwaxthen yes :)
18:51:03dirtyfrankTurns out the USB HID didn't fix it.
18:51:06stripwaxoh :(
18:51:09ollebe*to my browser cache
18:51:18dirtyfrankIt lasted a little longer before it froze but it still froze.
18:51:44n1sollebe: this is not a copyright law channel...
18:51:47stripwaxdirtyfrank - and does it work fine using the original apple firmware for usb transfer, as opposed to using rockbox for usb transfer?
18:52:25olleben1s: true.
18:53:56Tornestripwax: he's on 3.5.1 so he is using the rom disk mode, presumably
18:54:04stripwaxTorne ?
18:54:30Tornestripwax: well it won't be using our usb stack..
18:54:35stripwaxwhy not?
18:54:43Tornebecause usb is disabled in releases
18:54:48Tornewell, mass storage is
18:54:51stripwaxwoah, since when?
18:54:56Tornesince forever
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18:55:12stripwaxdirtyfrank - is that right, you're using the original firmware for USB transfers?
18:55:14saratogaUSB is just for the SVN builds on the 5G
18:55:15Tornerelease builds on ipod have always booted the rom disk mode
18:55:16stripwaxTorne - crikey, I had no idea
18:55:37Tornebecause of the charging issue, and possible slow performance on some models
18:57:02gevaertsah, right. I missed that too
18:57:04dirtyfrankStripwax - it works with Apple firmware.
18:57:47stripwaxdirtyfrank - but it doesn't work in Rockbox firmware? In which case you're not running the release build, but a daily/current build - is that correct? if so, which svn revision number / rockbox version number?
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18:58:02dirtyfrankNo, I'm running the release build.
18:58:14Tornedirtyfrank: what exactly happens, on the ipod's screen,w hen you plug the usb cable in
18:58:16saratoga_then you don't get USB in rockbox
18:58:17*stripwax is now confused. Torne/sataroga - help
18:58:36Tornestripwax: the rom disk mode is not the same as booting the OF..
18:58:39dirtyfrankI get the flashing "no" sign and "Do not disconnect"
18:58:46saratoga_that would be Apple
18:58:47Tornethe plain black and white screen?
18:58:56TorneThat's the emergency disk mode from the original firmware
18:59:00Tornei.e. all apple's code
18:59:04stripwaxis the flashing 'no' in red, or in black+white
18:59:31dirtyfrankYeah, I've never seen anything different so I guessed maybe Rockbox didn't have a screen for that.
18:59:37ollebei messed up an article on the wiki somehow. how to revert it to last revision?
18:59:37dirtyfrankit's in b/w
18:59:38stripwaxif it's red (and quite big), it's the OF; if it's black+white (and quite small) it's the emergency disk mode.
18:59:52dirtyfrankIt's emergency disk mode then.
18:59:53stripwaxdirtyfrank - and the b/w one is the one that *doesn't* work?
19:00:04Tornedirtyfrank: whta hapens when it stops working?
19:00:09Tornedoes it change to "ok to disconnect"?
19:00:14stripwaxthat's really peculiar. it's just USB 1.1 I think, whereas the full Apple firmware is USB 2.
19:00:15Tornedoes it reboot back into rockbox automatically?
19:00:19Tornestripwax: no, it's not
19:00:28dirtyfrankIt freezes and ejects (or loses connection really).
19:00:33stripwaxi'll shut up then :)
19:00:34dirtyfrankNo, the screen just freezes.
19:00:43Tornestripwax: on ipodvideo the actual speed is comparable
19:01:01Tornedirtyfrank: well, then the apple firmware is crashing, unfortunately
19:01:15Tornedirtyfrank: i would suspect your hardware has an issue :)
19:01:40dirtyfranktorne: would that cause the apple firmware to crash too?
19:01:48Torneno idea.
19:01:55 Join TexasRockbox [0] (
19:02:11stripwaxhm, if emergency disk mode crashes, then maybe you need to run a checkdisk on your ipod
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19:02:17S_a_i_n_tThe way dirtyfrank describes it though, it works in the OF, but not in can this be *possible* using a release build...?
19:02:22S_a_i_n_tI just don;t get that part.
19:02:26TorneS_a_i_n_t: hm? why not?
19:02:38Tornerom disk mode is unrelated to any code running if you actually boot the OF
19:02:53Tornethey are implemented totally separately..
19:03:05S_a_i_n_tOh, that part I didn't know.
19:03:09TexasRockboxAre there any compile options to ensure that booting ipod 5.5G is quick via OSAS?
19:03:15S_a_i_n_tI thought disk mode was disk mode...
19:03:25TorneTexasRockbox: 'ensure'?
19:03:45Torneare you having a problem with it?
19:03:55dirtyfrankI ran "verify disk" in Disk Utility and it was fine.
19:04:08S_a_i_n_tTexasRockbox: not "compile options" but there are advanced ipodpatcher install options
19:04:36TexasRockboxI tried a build with r25635 and it boots slowly, while a build with 3.5.1 boots quickly
19:04:37 Quit piotrekm (Quit: piotrekm)
19:05:06TorneThere are a vast number of htings which could be causing that )
19:05:10TexasRockboxinstalled with command ipodpatcher -wf rockbox.ipod
19:05:33TorneIf you wrote rockbox to OSOS without the bootloader, then there's nothing else to do there, no.
19:05:39Torneare you using the same settings for both?
19:05:52TorneThe default theme on ipod video has a very large font which loads slowly
19:05:53TexasRockboxwith ipodpatcher?
19:06:01Torneno, the actual rockbox settings
19:06:18TorneWhat kind of difference are you talking about, also?
19:06:23 Quit dirtyfrank (Quit: CGI:IRC)
19:06:26Torneand is it before or after the rockbox logo?
19:06:37TexasRockboxsame config settings
19:06:46TexasRockboxafter the rockbox logo
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19:07:00dirtyfrankI ran the automatic install, if that makes a difference.
19:07:00Torneso.. what is the time difference, and how are you timing it
19:07:17TexasRockboxIt's almost as if dircache is being rebuilt with each boot (just a guess)
19:07:28TorneTexasRockbox: well, test :)
19:07:33Tornebuild with bootchart enabled
19:07:42Torneit will tell you exactly what took how long during boot
19:07:46TexasRockboxBy eye, r25635 boots in about 15 sec 3.5.1 boots in about 3 sec
19:07:46gevaertsdirtyfrank: have you checked the filesystem?
19:07:52gevaertsAh, ok
19:07:53Torne3 seconds from what?
19:07:55*gevaerts reads backlog
19:08:04Tornefrom pressing the button, or the logo appearing, or what?
19:08:05 Join MethoS- [0] (~clemens@
19:08:11TexasRockboxinitial keypress to start
19:08:12S_a_i_n_tTorne: Bless you for making bootchart (it was you, wasn't it?) ;)
19:08:17TorneS_a_i_n_t: yes
19:08:20Torneand thanks :)
19:08:26S_a_i_n_tGood job, well needed.
19:08:34TorneTexasRockbox: do you use cabbiev2?
19:08:39TexasRockboxI can build with boot chart
19:08:57TexasRockboxno, same custom WPS in both builds
19:09:08***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:09:09Tornehow big is your font
19:09:15Torneis it more than 60000 bytes )
19:09:37gevaertsTexasRockbox: finding the exact revision where it got slower would be helpful
19:09:46Tornedoing a bootchart first would be good )
19:09:52Tornesee which thing is taking the time
19:09:54TexasRockbox38kb Adobe-Helvetica-Bold
19:10:06TexasRockboxfont size 16
19:10:07Tornenot font loading then , probably
19:10:18dirtyfranktorne: I'm just going through the settings now...would "idle poweroff" have an influence when it's plugged in?
19:10:35Tornedirtyfrank: no. *none* of rockbox is running when it's in rom disk mode
19:10:40Tornedirtyfrank: none of our settings are relevant
19:11:09TexasRockboxSo, compile with bootchart then and try?
19:11:32TorneTexasRockbox: yesah, b uild with bootchart, then go to debug and dump logf to a file
19:11:39Tornepastebin the log somewhere
19:11:52dirtyfranktorne: when I plug it in, I get the apple, then it goes to emergency mode
19:11:56TexasRockboxOK, thanks −− off to build
19:12:02 Quit TexasRockbox (Quit: CGI:IRC)
19:12:16Tornedirtyfrank: yes. that's normal in release uilds. rockbox has exited, only apple's code is running. rockbox boots up from scratch again after you are done.
19:12:28Torneso rockbox settings are irrelevant.
19:13:08Tornewhat version of the apple firmware is isntalled/
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19:14:14dirtyfrankNot sure the number, but it's the latest one. I just restored it yesterday.
19:14:29 Quit n1s (Quit: Lmnar)
19:14:44Tornedirtyfrank: then i'm not sure what you can do..
19:14:54TexasRockboxOops, didn't find anything on a search or a forum search about bootchart. How to enable?
19:15:19Torneit's an advanced optino in configure
19:15:32Torneis your build modified at all?
19:16:21TexasRockboxyes it has the 240 GB changes and rockbox USB disabled
19:16:37Torneyou shouldn't need any changes to use a large drive any more
19:16:43TorneI have implemented a better solution :)
19:16:59TexasRockboxI saw that!
19:17:09Torneyou don't need to change the code any more.
19:17:12Torneit should just work
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19:17:46TexasRockboxOK but what about bootchart? What to add?
19:18:00Torneit's an advanced option, when configuring the build
19:18:04Torneyou dont' have to touch the code for that either
19:18:28 Join M3DLG [0] (~M3DLG@
19:18:29Tornehit 'a' for advanced, then 'c' for bootchart, when you're in configure
19:19:02dirtyfranktorne: ok, thanks for the help
19:19:15TexasRockboxOK, thank you I'll do it. Back in a few minutes
19:19:19Tornedirtyfrank: i would guess the disk has a problem,you may need to run a more thorough disk check
19:19:32Torneyou should probably look at the smart data in the diagnostic mode too
19:19:48dirtyfrankin disk utility?
19:19:56Torneno, on the ipod
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19:20:46Tornedirtyfrank: hold select+rewind when you turn the ipod on
19:21:18Tornei don't have my ipod handy though, iirc the disk info is under "IO"
19:23:14dirtyfrankI never knew that was on an it Apple?
19:23:20dirtyfrankOr is that on Rockbox?
19:23:41dirtyfrankI got a green screen that says "Completed"
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19:24:07Torneno, not the auto test
19:25:14S_a_i_n_tthat's the 5 in 1 (or whatever) IIRC, you want the disk section, which I believe is IO
19:26:18dirtyfrankOk, smart data...retracts:23, reallocs:0, pending sectors:0, poweron hours:893, start/stops:8780
19:26:28Tornethat's ok
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19:26:54Torneso.. yeah.
19:26:58Tornedunno i'm afraid
19:27:12Torneyou could try a current build of rockbox, which will use our own usb code
19:27:14stripwaxtried a different usb cable?
19:27:57dirtyfrankI don't have one.
19:28:54dirtyfrankI'll try the current build.
19:29:37Tornenote that charging doesn't work properly in rockbox though
19:29:45Torneyou may find yoru battery doesn't charge or even runs down while connected
19:30:05dirtyfrankso I have to hold the center button when I connect?
19:30:13 Quit NensiKate (Client Quit)
19:30:14Buschel_especially when trasnferring files from/to hard drive
19:30:16Torneno, charging doesn't work properly while in rockbox *at all*
19:30:26Tornedoesn't matter whether you hold the center button or not
19:31:09Torneaccessing hte hard drive to transfer files uses quite a lot of power, but it's only drawing a limited amoutn from the computer, so it discharges still
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19:31:24dirtyfrankSo I may be stuck with Apple's firmware?
19:31:27S_a_i_n_tdirtyfrank: with the current build (unless you have an iPod Nano), its better to charge when using the Apple side.
19:31:47S_a_i_n_tit's easy to switch between Apple/Rockbox
19:31:53S_a_i_n_tA lot of people do it.
19:31:54Tornedirtyfrank: this is why we disable our usb mode in releases :0
19:32:03dirtyfrankWell it doesn't boot into Rockbox when it's connected anyway...I get the emergency Apple screen.
19:32:25dirtyfrankuh oh, was that at me?
19:32:57S_a_i_n_tIt will only do that with the release build, with the current build, it won't.'s a dumb do I install the current build?
19:33:54 Quit dirtyfrank (Quit: CGI:IRC)
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19:34:26NensiKatehello guys, i need help :) i search Rechargeable Battery - LG523450A1, but i'm from Russia.. And know English VERY bed)) Can anybody help me?
19:34:32dirtyfrankI don't know why but I keep losing the chat
19:34:33stripwaxdirtyfrank - download the zip from the current builds page on
19:34:33S_a_i_n_tWhat did you use to install the build that's on there now?
19:34:46S_a_i_n_tYou can use either rbutil, or install it manually.
19:34:50dirtyfrankI used the installer that downloaded with automatic install
19:35:09stripwaxNensiKate- I'm not sure I understand what that has to do with Rockbox
19:35:27 Quit Buschel_ (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
19:35:28Tornedirtyfrank: rockbox utili can install the current build as well
19:35:55dirtyfrankAh, I found it.
19:36:19stripwaxNensiKate- have you tried google?
19:36:39NensiKateyes, lol
19:37:03NensiKatebut i Russia i cann't find batary
19:37:04stripwaxNensiKate- how is this Rechargable Battery related to Rockbox?
19:37:40dirtyfranktorne: got it I have to change settings or anything, or just see if it doesn't eject?
19:37:57Tornejust try it
19:38:05Torneit will stay in rockbox when you connect the cable, displaying our USB icon
19:38:06 Quit emrecelikten (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
19:38:11NensiKateI have seen a site, have found there the battery, and the reference on IRC
19:38:34stripwaxNensiKate - which site?
19:38:46dirtyfrankSo far, so good.
19:38:57stripwaxNensiKate - which webpage
19:39:44NensiKateI thought here there are people who have the equipment - the battery. But I was mistaken. Excuse ...
19:39:47stripwaxdirtyfrank - so just wondering, did you try booting into the apple OF, and then rebooting (menu+select) and going straight into apple emergency disk mode *without* going via rockbox first? that ought to totally rule out anything rockbox is/could be doing
19:40:06stripwaxNensiKate - no, we don't sell batteries
19:40:31dirtyfrankstripwax: no I haven't.I will now.
19:40:37S_a_i_n_tdirtyfrank: PS menu+select to reboot select+play for disk mode ;)
19:40:45stripwaxyep, sorry
19:41:18NensiKatevery sad...
19:41:26NensiKate - site
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19:41:50dirtyfrankwhile it's plugged in?
19:41:58TexasRockboxIt appears the battery is for a iAudio/Cowon M3 but a Google search shows only very old webpages (most in Japanese)
19:42:11stripwaxNensiKate - that page describes the IaudioM3 , but we don't sell any parts, we develop software.. sorry.
19:42:12NensiKateI understood that there тольок the description
19:42:45NensiKateok, i see) Sorry, guys
19:43:15TexasRockboxContact Cowon
19:44:44NensiKateok, thank you
19:45:15S_a_i_n_tdirtyfrank: No, it won't work right if its plugged in. What you'd have to do is, boot into the Apple firmware, then hard reset using menu+select, then hold down select+play immediately to get into disk mode.
19:45:16TexasRockboxYou're welcome "POCIBA!"
19:45:56S_a_i_n_tIf it "USB transfer) works without failing in that case...then, well, then I won't know what the hecks going on.
19:46:16TorneS_a_i_n_t: if it works if you boot it from the rom, that is relevant :)
19:46:31NensiKatei'll be back
19:46:56dirtyfrankeverytime I boot into Apple firmware it asks me to set a language preference
19:47:02TexasRockboxBest wishes in finding the battery
19:47:05S_a_i_n_tthen set it ;)
19:47:09Tornehave you been deleting the iPod_Control folder?
19:47:15Tornethat erases the original firmware's settings.
19:47:35dirtyfrankOk. I got to disk mode
19:47:40S_a_i_n_tSometimes you need to let it sit for a minute or so, otherwise the OF won't keep the settings
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19:47:44dirtyfrankit says "OK to disconnect"
19:47:55dirtyfrankbut it's not connected
19:47:57S_a_i_n_tA quick fox to force it to do so is to transfer a file while in the OF
19:48:27 Quit M3DLG (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
19:48:27S_a_i_n_tdirtyfrank: that's ok.
19:48:29gevaertsYou can of course have the OF reboot cleanly, but that's a bit tricky
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19:48:50S_a_i_n_tNow, plug her in, and see if you can do transfers...
19:49:25S_a_i_n_tlol...a quick fox. Ahen, "a quick fix"
19:49:29dirtyfrankI was in disk mode before when it was self-ejecting.
19:50:09S_a_i_n_tremember the two types of disk mode being discussed?
19:50:28dirtyfrankYes, I'm in emergency disk mode now.
19:51:16stripwaxdirtyfrank - right, but you got there without going via rockbox. if it still doesn't work / keeps ejecting, it pretty much rules out any rockbox effects.
19:51:24S_a_i_n_tHow long would it have normally taken to do this "auto-eject" thing you described?
19:51:28dirtyfrankOh right.
19:51:38 Quit stooo (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
19:51:41dirtyfrankDepends. Anywhere from a few minutes to maybe 10.
19:51:54dirtyfrankLast time it was almost immediate.
19:52:01S_a_i_n_twell, patience my son ;)
19:52:06 Quit NensiKate (Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout))
19:52:18dirtyfrankOk. I'll watch it and see.
19:52:19Blue_DudeS_a_i_n_t: Any luck reproducing the hotkey Nano bug in the sim?
19:53:09S_a_i_n_tBlue_Dude: None at only seems to happen on the device :'(
19:53:18stripwaxis there a *tiny* chance that (assuming this works, and emergency-disk-mode-via-rockbox-usb does not work) this could have been caused by / related to the rockbox shutdown issue ?
19:53:37stripwax(and that maybe the iram-zeroing-on-exit thing could possibly fix this also?)
19:53:47*stripwax waits for dirtyfrank's test to finish in any case...
19:53:53Blue_DudeS_a_i_n_t: Rats. I was hoping for a lead on that.
19:53:59Tornestripwax: shouldn't be, the shutdown thing doesn't activate on reboot annoys me.
19:54:17stripwaxTorne - oh, hm. maybe it should ... ?
19:54:25S_a_i_n_tNot because I use it, nut because I now know it *should* work differently ;)
19:54:27Tornestripwax: no, why would it?
19:54:49Tornestripwax: we put particular things in iram on reboot to get to disk mode.
19:55:04stripwaxah. do we zero the rest of iram?
19:55:10Tornen o.
19:55:21stripwaxmaybe there's some other peculiar things left around that affect it .. ?
19:55:46Tornestripwax: someoen would've noticed by now, no?
19:55:54Blue_DudeS_a_i_n_t: just for a check, try to change the keymap on the hotkey to a single keypress (long or short doesn't matter), anything other than a combo. I was wondering if maybe the combo causes problems because it goes right into the yes/no screen. Long shot.
19:55:56stripwaxlet's wait for the test results
19:56:33dirtyfrank500MB transfered without incident
19:57:09S_a_i_n_tBlue_Dude: I'll ask around at intervals I guess and see if any other targets present this problem. I'm not sure how many people a: are aware of/use Hotkeys and b: are aware of/or actually do set another value to the hotkey to change its function instead of resetting it and setting it again.
19:57:22S_a_i_n_tIts likely I'm the only one that's noticed it.
19:57:33Blue_Dudeok. It's certainly worth asking.
19:58:06S_a_i_n_tSweet, I'll keep you posted if/when I find something.
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19:58:37Blue_DudeI'm irritated because I can't reproduce it on my target. One difference is the key is mapped to a combo. And the different processor.
19:59:34S_a_i_n_tit took a while to get used to pressing select+play at *exactly* the same time...let me tell you ;)
20:00:15S_a_i_n_tI'm used to key combos being press blah, then blab with blah still held down.
20:00:31S_a_i_n_tNot press blah+blah at precisely the same instance ;)
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20:01:46S_a_i_n_tOoops, Blue_Dude ^
20:02:11Blue_DudeS_a_i_n_t: remap the key to select|menu + select instead of select|menu + none. Or maybe press menu first. Which is easier?
20:02:20dirtyfrankfinished 1.85 gb without a problem
20:03:02S_a_i_n_tthe keymaps are a mystery to me...
20:03:31 Join Domonoky1 [0] (~domonoky@
20:03:32Blue_DudeWell if you have to press the combo, you naturally tend to press one slightly before the other. Which do you press first more naturally?
20:04:17stripwaxdirtyfrank - was 1.85GB possible (ever, even once) before, if you started from rockbox and connected usb from there?
20:04:37 Quit Domonoky (Disconnected by services)
20:04:47dirtyfrankI set it to go last night with maybe 25gb and it stopped sometime in the night.
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20:05:03dirtyfrankI'd say it got through more than 1.85GB before it quit.
20:05:09S_a_i_n_tBlue_Dude: It would be "X" then select (that fees more natural to me)
20:05:25S_a_i_n_tas in hold X, then press Y
20:05:34stripwaxcan you try a bigger test, in that case?
20:05:39Blue_DudeActually, it's select+play isn't it? OK, lemme change that real quick. Hold play then select...
20:05:51dirtyfrankYes. How big do you think?
20:06:12S_a_i_n_tyes, it is select plus play...I had to think of a combo key I was used to though ;)
20:06:15dirtyfrankIs it possible I'll just have to boot OF > disk mode to transfer?
20:06:34 Join ifonefox [0] (
20:07:08TexasRockboxNew build with bootcheck. Here's the log:
20:07:35CIA-5New commit by 03Blue_Dude (r25665): Fix hotkey keymap on ipods
20:07:38dirtyfrankstripwax: ok, I have it going with 20GB
20:08:12Blue_DudeOK, try that.
20:08:28Blue_DudeIt probably won't fix anything but it'll make it easier to hit.
20:08:48TexasRockboxThis is booting with the default config and the Cabbie V2 theme
20:09:17S_a_i_n_tBlue_Dude: Sweet, that was will definitely make it easier. But not sure if it'll fix whatever problem this is. Thanks.
20:09:27 Quit ifonefox (Remote host closed the connection)
20:09:46Blue_DudeKeymaps are super easy to change. The hard part is figuring out what to change them to.
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20:11:37dirtyfrankstripwax: this is going to take hours...should I just come back later?
20:11:57stripwaxI think so
20:12:12stripwaxfeel free to hang around though, in case there's some interesting chat :)
20:12:13dirtyfrankok, I'll be back in a while
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20:19:19dirtyfrankstripwax: we have failure
20:20:19S_a_i_n_tdirtyfrank: that's actually *really* bad I it means that its Apple at fault, so, nothing that can be fixed here. :(
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20:20:47dirtyfrankor I can just do it in 500MB increments
20:20:49S_a_i_n_tWell, not Apple at *fault*, but, the fault lies on the Apple side of things.
20:21:21dirtyfrankOn the plus side, it didn't freeze, just ejected itself.
20:21:56gevaertsmaybe a bad disk?
20:22:21dirtyfrankNo, everything checked out okay.
20:22:55S_a_i_n_twhat have you used to check the disk? Just the iPod diagnostics?
20:23:05dirtyfrankAnd disk utility
20:23:43S_a_i_n_tAnd you said you recently restored it, yes?
20:24:00dirtyfranklast night
20:24:50 Quit mikroflops (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
20:25:09stripwaxdirtyfrank - well, despite this being #rockbox, what would happen if you restored it via itunes, and then *not* install rockbox, and then attempted to transfer files onto it, via existing emergency disk mode
20:25:36dirtyfrankActually, I'm trying that now but with rockbox still installed.
20:25:43S_a_i_n_tstripwax: Didn't we just find that out?
20:25:57dirtyfrankWait, no...I'm transferring via NONemergency disk mode.
20:26:05S_a_i_n_tApple side doesn;t know that RB is installed.
20:26:40S_a_i_n_tBlargh!?! I'm confused again...
20:26:42stripwaxS_a_i_n_t - yeah, I'm assuming that too. But if it just doesn't work after a full restore, with no rockbox bootloader or anything, then it's one for Apple.
20:27:02stripwaxdirtyfrank - huh? yeah, i'm confused too. so neither emergency disk mode nor nonemergency disk mode work properly?
20:27:11TexasRockbox@torne: Anything standout wrong in the boot?
20:28:16dirtyfrankjust emergency doesn't work for sure.
20:28:40S_a_i_n_tdirtyfrank: Did I not make it clear enough how to get into emergency disk mode? If I didn;t, please speak up.
20:28:44dirtyfrankPreviously if I connected it with rockbox booted, it went into emergency disk mode.
20:29:21dirtyfrankWhat we've tried so far:
20:29:28dirtyfrankbooting OF > emergency disk mode
20:29:36dirtyfrankbooting rockbox > emergency disk mode
20:29:54dirtyfrankbooting rockbox >rockbox usb mode
20:30:03dirtyfranknone of those have worked.
20:30:13dirtyfrankrockbox usb mode just crashed
20:30:21dirtyfrankthe other 2 self ejected
20:30:23stripwaxdirtyfrank - oh, when you say "NONemergency disk mode", you mean the rockbox usb mode
20:30:30stripwaxrather than the OF non emergency disk mode?
20:30:33dirtyfrankno, OF disk mode
20:30:43 Quit bertrik (Read error: Operation timed out)
20:30:47stripwaxok, just I didn't see that in your list just now
20:31:03dirtyfrankthat's what I'm trying now...I haven't tried it before
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20:31:23stripwaxand it doesn't work?
20:31:26S_a_i_n_tWait...what?!? you said you *had* tried it.
20:31:29dirtyfrankso far so good
20:31:30S_a_i_n_tAnd that it worked.
20:31:41dirtyfrankNo. So far nothing has worked.
20:31:58S_a_i_n_tYou said it worked in the OF, I'm *sure* you did.
20:32:04stripwaxdirtyfrank - what did "we have failure" refer to? the OF non-emergency disk mode?
20:32:22stripwaxyeah, I'm certain when this started, you said it worked ok if you didn't use rockbox to start the usb emergency disk mode ...
20:32:53dirtyfrankand no
20:32:57*stripwax boggles
20:33:02dirtyfrankyes to the first to the last statement
20:33:14dirtyfrankwait...I'm confused now.
20:33:36dirtyfrankwe have failure referred to OF emergency disk mode
20:33:48stripwaxdirtyfrank - you said "I am referring to NONemergency disk mode"
20:33:58*gevaerts proposes to make a nice list of things that fail and things that don't
20:34:06stripwaxwould be good
20:34:19dirtyfrankThings that failed:
20:34:26dirtyfrankOF > emergency disk mode
20:34:34dirtyfrankrockbox > emergency disk mode
20:34:49S_a_i_n_t[04:57] <dirtyfrank> Stripwax - it works with Apple firmware.
20:34:50dirtyfrankrockbox > rockbox usb mode said it worked, you could have saved us some time.
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20:35:20dirtyfranks_a_i_n_t: that was without rockbox installed
20:35:36stripwaxdirtyfrank - and transferring more than about 1.85GB?
20:35:38dirtyfranksorry, I thought that's what you were asking
20:35:55dirtyfrankI don't know the tranfer limit
20:36:13dirtyfrankLike I said before, it failed once almost immediately.
20:36:51TexasRockboxHow does one read the logf dump from bootcheck build? How to spot if some process is taking too long?
20:38:06S_a_i_n_twait, without rockbox installed? Huh? Then we get back to "unless your using a current build (which you weren't) it uses the Apple disk mode, and as such, Rockbox is irrelevant here"
20:38:17gevaertsTexasRockbox: put it on a pastebin
20:38:23S_a_i_n_tIs it possible you just never noticed it fail before now?
20:38:39dirtyfrankNo. I am sure I've never seen it fail.
20:38:39TexasRockboxI'm sorry... pastebin?
20:39:00gevaertsTexasRockbox: have a look at sites like, it will be pretty obvious :)
20:39:16Luca_Sgevaerts: he already posted that at
20:40:08S_a_i_n_tdirtyfrank: Well, the fact that rockbox is instaled is irrelevant. It's using Apple code when its failing, as well as apparently failing when using the current build.
20:40:24S_a_i_n_tSo, I'd be turning my attention to your OS if I were you.
20:40:42gevaertsah, right. I must have missed that.
20:41:01TexasRockboxlike this:
20:41:06dirtyfrankWhat do you think is up with my OS?
20:41:16TexasRockboxI think I did it right....
20:41:37TorneTexasRockbox: you are loading a font larger than 60KB
20:41:43Tornenot the one you mentioend
20:41:56S_a_i_n_tI don;t know...but its failing on transfers using both the Apple Disk Mode, Emergency Disk Mode, and Rockbox, my guess is "something"
20:42:03Tornethis is takign 6.5 seconds
20:42:20TorneTexasRockbox: switch to a different font that's udner 60kb and you should find it boots ~6 seconds faster :)
20:42:21saratogawhat are the two numbers in that chart?
20:42:24S_a_i_n_tThat is of course, assuming your failing results are accurate, which I have no reason to doubt.
20:42:32Tornesaratoga: first is the line number, second is the tick count
20:42:43TexasRockboxHmmm.. I wonder how it's being loaded?
20:42:57TorneTexasRockbox: hm? how do you mean?
20:43:00saratogahow long is a tick?
20:43:05saratoga1/100 of a second?
20:43:13Tornesaratoga: 100th B[Byes
20:43:29Torneyes :)
20:43:38TexasRockboxah, cabbie v2 loads it
20:43:51Tornei did say this when you asked ;)
20:44:08Tornethis si the bug i raised for it. loading large fonts appears to be spectacularly slow on ipod video for no adequately explainde reason
20:44:19Torneit's slower on all targets, by not by such a large factor
20:44:39Torneso your configuration isn't identical, i assume then?
20:44:51Tornebecause this font loading problem is not new, it's always been this slow
20:45:08TexasRockboxOK, I was using my own theme but with the new build just installed the default which installed the Adobe font
20:45:16dirtyfranks_a_i_n_t: I have about 7GB transferring now...I'll see how it goes.
20:45:22TexasRockboxI'll change fonts and see what happens
20:45:23Torneyes, so your configuration isn't the same :)
20:45:54S_a_i_n_tdirtyfrank: Using what? Disk Mode/Emergency Disk Mode/Rockbox USB?
20:46:02dirtyfrankdisk mode
20:46:57TexasRockboxwith my own theme I was using Adobe-Helvitica-Bold (14, 16, 18) does that imply that the Adobe Helvetica is used as well?
20:47:06 Quit dirtyfrank (Quit: CGI:IRC)
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20:47:37TorneTexasRockbox: er, i don't undertand what you mean
20:48:24Tornecabbiev2 uses 14-adobe-helvetica which is over the limit for the fast loading methd
20:48:28Tornethe bold versions are smaller
20:48:50Torneso if you change the theme to one tha tuses a font that's not such a big file it will boot faster gagain :0
20:49:15S_a_i_n_tI always wondered about that...are the bold versions smaller simply because they have less chars?
20:49:45Tornethe 14pt version of the regular helvetica has loads of characters in it
20:49:52Tornemost of our other fonts don't
20:50:17S_a_i_n_tAha. In my head bold == larger file.
20:50:31Tornewell the individual characters are probably bigger, yes ;)
20:50:59TexasRockboxOK, I was using 16-Adobe-Helvetica-Bold and was still having the problem
20:51:14Tornehow big is it?
20:51:26Torneif the file is over 60000 bytes it will take that long, even if it's just a little bit over
20:51:36Torneif it's under that, it should be ~30 times faster
20:52:35TexasRockboxI wasn't having the problem with Cabbie v.2 with 3.5.1 so the problem must have been introduced after that build (multifonts maybe)
20:52:54Torneunfortunately i think you are wrong..
20:53:05TorneI went back to 3.0 and it still takes 6 seconds
20:53:08S_a_i_n_tYes, that was actually proven...
20:53:16Torneand the code has *always* done the font load in a very inefficient and crazy way
20:53:26Torneit does ~1000 seeks or more to load the font ;)
20:53:31S_a_i_n_tOh, by Torne in fact. Which prompted the bootchart
20:53:56gevaerts16-Adobe-Helvetica-Bold should be fine. It's 38K or so
20:54:05TexasRockboxOK, I must be mistaken then. What does the logf dump show? How is it read?
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20:54:42Tornethe last number on each row is the time in 100ths of a second
20:54:50Torne(the other num ebr is just the line number)
20:55:06TexasRockboxOK thank you
20:55:08Torneyou can see the two references to font_load, with > for entry and < for exit, show that the time between is 6.5 seconds
20:55:26Torneyou can load it into any spreadsheet that understands CSV (comma sepaarated values)
20:55:34Torneand do a graph of the first and third column :)
20:55:48S_a_i_n_tOhhhhhh *fancy*
20:56:29Tornethere's a script in the source also to feet it to gnuplot
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20:57:08TexasRockboxOk, I'll go back to my original build and see what happens (and make sure of the font). Would loading multiple fonts cause an issue?
20:57:29Tornei have no idea
20:57:38Torneit won't load them at the same *point*, though
20:57:41TexasRockboxThat is, must the total of loaded fonts be less than 60K
20:57:45Tornethe initial call to font_load is just for the user font
20:57:57Torneno, skin fonts are loaded into the skin buffer and the availab le space there is even less
20:58:00Tornei'm not sure what the limit is
20:58:05Torne60KB is just for the main user font
20:58:06gevaerts10K I think
20:58:30S_a_i_n_tthe limit for fonts in multifont is == available skin buffer
20:58:42gevaertsdifferent limit
20:58:47S_a_i_n_teach font takes 10K
20:59:05 Quit saratoga_ (Quit: Page closed)
21:01:54TorneTexasRockbox: each font load will show up in the chart
21:01:57Tornethe first one is the user font, the others will happen from inside he theme loading function
21:02:29 Quit linuxstb_ (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
21:04:01TexasRockboxOK, i'm reloading my theme into the rockbox and will generate a logf from that theme
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21:06:58adnyxoi need some help installing rockbox on my sansa clip
21:07:07adnyxoi am aware that it is not officially supported
21:07:21adnyxobut i was hoping someone might help
21:07:43adnyxoim following these instructions:
21:08:14FlynDiceadnyxo: what problem are you having?
21:08:41adnyxowhen i try to run ./mkamsboot
21:08:47adnyxoit tells me permission denied
21:08:50adnyxoalthough i am root
21:08:59adnyxo(ubuntu 9.10 64 bit)
21:09:03FlynDicewhy are you root?
21:09:12***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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21:10:17adnyxobecause when i wasnt it said the same thing
21:10:26adnyxoso i tried being root
21:10:31gevaertsis it executable?
21:10:57FlynDiceI'm running the karmic 64 also and do not have that problem...
21:11:12FlynDiceor is 9.1 lucent?
21:11:34adnyxogevaerts, im not sure
21:13:24adnyxohow do i tell
21:13:33FlynDiceadnyxo: did you make mkamsboot in /media/WDPassport/rockbox/rbutil/mkamsboot?
21:14:08FlynDiceer lucid..... lucid lynx is next I think
21:14:28adnyxoidk about the code names
21:14:34adnyxoeasier to remember the numbers
21:15:46FlynDiceclip1 ir clipv2?
21:16:10FlynDiceah, so did you download mkamsboot then?
21:16:27adnyxoyes, from the link on the wiki
21:16:56FlynDicewell I've never done it that way so lemmee take a look
21:17:17gevaertsyou probably need chmod +x then
21:17:58adnyxochmod +x mkamsboot ?
21:19:09TexasRockboxIs the %Fl parameter allowed in the .SBS screen
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21:20:25adnyxo gevaerts, that worked
21:20:29adnyxothank you
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21:25:26TexasRockboxNew logf dump (called logf2) at:
21:25:52FlynDiceadnyxo: Yes in fact I do get that problem also if i download mkamsboot from the link. It works with +x now though correct?
21:26:01adnyxoyes it does
21:26:16adnyxonow on to the other 7 clips
21:26:23gevaertsTexasRockbox: please use a pastebin. That site makes it hard to download things
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21:28:53TexasRockboxWill do, my apologies
21:28:57 Quit Domonoky1 (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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21:29:50TexasRockboxhere it is:
21:30:34Blue_DudeAnybody here messed with DMA playback much?
21:30:36TexasRockboxThere appear to be loooong lags at the end...
21:31:05gevaertsthat does indeed look like font loading could be the issue. Which WPS/SBS fonts do you load?
21:31:48TexasRockboxAdobe-Helvetica-Bold (14, 16, 18)
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21:32:20TexasRockboxThree fonts, one in the config, one in the .SBS, two in the .WPS
21:32:32S_a_i_n_tTexasRockbox> Is the %Fl parameter allowed in the .SBS screen == yes
21:32:32TexasRockboxUh, make that four
21:32:55gevaertsI suspect there's not much you can do about it apart from fixing the core issue or loading really small fonts
21:33:21S_a_i_n_tthe identifers can also point to a different font in the WPS/SBS
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21:33:34TexasRockboxOK do we think that loading multiple fonts is the issue (that is, total size greater than 60k)?
21:33:40 Quit domonoky (Changing host)
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21:33:51S_a_i_n_tso font "a" can be a different font in the sbs, than in the wps
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21:34:29S_a_i_n_tTexasRockbox: fonts loaded additionally by a WPS/SBS use the skin buffer
21:34:41S_a_i_n_tand, don;t have a "limit" as such
21:35:22gevaertsTexasRockbox: for "extra" fonts, i.e. the ones you specify in the wps or the sbs, I think the limit is 10k, not 60k
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21:35:52S_a_i_n_twell, they do..but that "limit" is your available skin buffer.
21:36:08gevaertsS_a_i_n_t: irrelevant
21:36:14S_a_i_n_tgevaerts: 10K is what each font takes.
21:36:29S_a_i_n_tmany fonts can be loaded, at 10K each IIUC
21:36:32gevaertsThe skin buffer limit means that it either loads or it doesn't. It doesn't have any impact on how fast it loads
21:38:51gevaertsThe 10K limit means that really tiny fonts (there are some!) load fast, but most fonts load slowly on ipod video
21:38:51 Quit Luca_S (Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout))
21:38:55ThomasAHjust running 'svn up && cd rbutil/mkamsboot && make' yields binary which accepts this week's OF update, but when running it shows "mkamsboot Version r25340-100326" (i.e. the time of the previous compile in the same directory)
21:39:03 Quit TexasRockbox (Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout))
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21:39:42ThomasAH'make clean && make' fixes this, but maybe someone has an idea how to update the revision number automatically
21:40:31*domonoky urges all rockbox mentors here to come to #rockbox-gsoc !!
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21:41:44TexasRockboxI'm experimenting −− will update shortly
21:41:52bieberI'm here to discuss my GSOC task, whenever you're all ready
21:42:53domonokybieber: good, we will call you when we are ready for you :-)
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21:51:24TexasRockboxinteresting. I removed the %Fl from the SBS and it appeared to load quickly. When the WPS was loaded that seemed to take forever
21:51:48TexasRockboxlooking at the logf it appears the fonts were read quickly but the WPS had a long delay
21:51:54 Quit jordan` (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
21:52:44Torneno, font_load in teh chart is *only* the UI font
21:52:48TexasRockboxHow does one make the size of .fnt files smaller
21:52:55Tornethe WPS/SBS load is when it's loading the fonts for those
21:53:16TorneTexasRockbox: edit the original bitmap fonts before converting them
21:53:25gevaertsTexasRockbox: if you make your own builds, it's probably easier to just increas various limits
21:55:13TexasRockboxIs 10K the total limit or each font limit for %FI within the SBS/WPS?
21:55:30gevaertseach font
21:55:36Torneeach font has to e under 10KB to load fast
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21:56:15TexasRockboxOK, thank you! Is the limit 10K for any particular reason?
21:56:41Tornethe bigger it is the more space it will take in the skin buffer for each font
21:57:32gevaertsit's a fixed allocation, in theory we have efficient caching if not everything is loaded, and wps fonts are expected to not have many glyphs in use
21:57:49TexasRockboxThank you to everyone. I think I know what to do now. Have a great day!
21:57:55gevaertsIt's the "in theory" bit that causes some problems
21:58:43TexasRockboxI'll either make smaller file size fonts or experiment with other smaller fonts
21:59:13Tornei should add the font_load calls in the theme engine as chart [oints really
21:59:31saratogaanyone feel liking joining the gsoc interviews
21:59:59TexasRockboxThere aren't many fonts less than 10K in the font package
22:00:38Torneno, there aren't :)
22:01:09Tornethe caching system is supposed to be efficient. but it's not :)
22:01:30TexasRockboxOh well, I'll make it all work, thank you again!
22:02:31 Quit Johannes` (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
22:02:48TexasRockboxBye everyone. I love Rockbox, it is a lot of fun to use.
22:03:55 Quit TexasRockbox (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF))
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22:11:17emreceliktensaratoga: Where are the interviews?
22:12:25gevaertsemrecelikten: they're in a dedicated channel
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22:14:36pixelmaemrecelikten: yours is tomorrow I believe, no?
22:14:53emreceliktenYes, 16:00 UTC
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22:19:06TexasRockboxThank you again to everyone, the 10K font size was the problem. Just tested it.
22:19:34TexasRockboxI'll update my forum post
22:22:12 Quit TexasRockbox (Client Quit)
22:23:22emreceliktenpixelma: How long will the interview be?
22:23:29gevaertsemrecelikten: up to one hour
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23:09:16***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:09:33nicknamedaveI just installed Rockbox last night, so I have some relatively newbie questions.
23:09:57 Join p3tur [0] (~petur@rockbox/developer/petur)
23:10:05nicknamedaveHow do I create a shuffle with all of the songs I have on my iPod? And if I put more songs on there, do they automatically get added to the shuffle playlist?
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23:12:34nicknamedaveAlso: How do I put files from my computer directly onto the Rockbox part of my iPod, and not the normal iPod part? Can I just drag them over in iTunes like normally, or is there something I am completely missing?
23:14:35gevaertsJust put them on the disk
23:14:46 Quit hebz0rl (Remote host closed the connection)
23:14:52gevaertsor use itunes
23:14:57soapnicknamedave, Last question first. There is no "rockbox part" of the ipod in the sense you are using it. Your iPod (for sake of this argument) is a generic HDD. Put files wherever you want and browse to them from within Rockbox. IF you move files via iTunes they will be obscured in the Apple hidden file structure.
23:15:04*domonoky recommends nicknamedave to read the manual :-)
23:15:39soapAnd, yes, the first part also has multiple answers and even a casual searching of the pdf manual will give you the answers you seek for that question.
23:16:35nicknamedaveThe first time I started Rockbox, I had to transfer the songs from the iPod part to the Rockbox part. I wouldn't have to do that if I just put the songs on from iTunes? Oh, and I checked the manual about the shuffle thing. Tried doing what the manual said, but the playlist would never save for me. And I'm still not sure whether or not when new songs are put on, they're added to the playlist or not.
23:17:03 Quit DataGhost (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
23:18:14stripwax_nicknamedave - there's no way to create an automatically-updating playlist of all the songs on your device; but after adding songs you could always just add them yourself to the current playlist.
23:18:24stripwax_or use the Database feature, and select All Tracks
23:18:37stripwax_(and set your Database to automatically Update)
23:19:15stripwax_it still won't update your playlist, but you can just go to the Database and select All Tracks again
23:19:47nicknamedaveSo I seleted All Tracks, and where do I go from here to create a Shuffle playlist?
23:20:14stripwax_nicknamedave - but I'm not sure what you mean when you said 'the first time I started rockbox, I had to transfer the songs from the ipod part to the rockbox part'. If you already had songs on your ipod, then rockbox already knows about them
23:20:23stripwax_nicknamedave - set Shuffle mode
23:20:55stripwax_nicknamedave - sorry, specifically: long-press on All Tracks, and play them from there
23:21:03stripwax_nicknamedave - now read the manual :)
23:21:21nicknamedaveWhen I long press on All Tracks, the only options I see are "Insert" and "Insert Shuffle". I assume the latter?
23:21:32soapthat is one way
23:22:05soapAs the manual explains - "Insert Shuffle" creates a static playlist with all the tracks added to it in random order.
23:22:36soapAnother way is to create a static playlist with all the track in "normal" order and then enable the shuffle setting under playback.
23:22:41nicknamedaveSo now that created a playlist with all the songs on it, right? How do I save this playlist? I checked the manual and (presumably) followed the directions, but it never worked for me.
23:22:59gevaertsdo you need to?
23:23:04nicknamedaveDoes statis mean it'll forever be in this same random order?
23:23:34nicknamedaveHmm, that's no good. Let me guess, if I want shuffle, I should just play a song, and then turn shuffle on?
23:24:45stripwax_nicknamedave - you could turn Shuffle on (even if no tracks are playing).
23:25:19nicknamedaveIs there a quick way to turn it off, or do I have to go through options anytime; like is there a way to put it as a mode on the main menu?
23:25:47stripwax_from the while playing screen, you can long-hold select
23:25:59nicknamedaveAhh, gotcha, thanks
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23:26:12stripwax_all this, and more, is in the manual. that's your next task :)
23:26:15Torneit's also on the quickscreen
23:26:29nicknamedaveQuickscreen? I guess I should see the manual for that...
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23:30:18nicknamedaveIs there anyway to remove search options from the Database?
23:30:25nicknamedaveOr rather, categories?
23:31:17LloreanYou can edit the tagnavi files to display (or not display) any of the options, or new ones even.
23:32:03nicknamedaveI ctrl + F'ed tagnavi and got nothing
23:32:13 Quit emrecelikten (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
23:32:43stripwax_nicknamedave - hrm, that's bad! we should add something to the manual in that case!
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