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#rockbox log for 2010-08-01

00:00:42 Quit Dreamxtreme (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
00:05:19 Quit t0rc (Quit: Give someone code, help them with one project. Teach someone to code, help them rule the world.)
00:06:12 Join Dreamxtreme [0] (Dreamxtrem@92.1.247.62)
00:10:38kugelok, it looks like I need to zip all rockbox files into a libmisc.so, then unzipping it at runtime
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00:20:27*TheSeven wonders why usb_drv.h declares some usb_drv_whatever functions that don't seem to exist, at least in some drivers
00:20:57sn9bitrot
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00:48:06***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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02:00
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02:16:45kugelheh, rockbox decodes much faster than the built-in media player :)
02:18:57Dreamxtremewhat player?
02:19:01 Join bunnyboi [0] (~androgyne@cpe-72-224-31-169.nycap.res.rr.com)
02:20:36kugelDreamxtreme: raaa on my htc
02:21:23AlexPThat's good news :)
02:21:28AlexP/work
02:21:48AlexPI might even have to get a mobile :)
02:21:57kugelwhen the wps isn't shown, it's at 6-8% cpu usage, while the mediaserver has nearly 25-30%
02:23:01AlexPThat's a big improvement
02:23:30kugeli had rockbox at 96% until recently :)
02:23:31AlexPHmmm, amazon have the 8 GB clip+ for 40 quid, is that a good price?
02:24:04*kugel finds it interesting that the media server consumes 20% even when it's paused
02:24:27n1sthat sounds less than ideal for a battery powered device...
02:24:57n1sis our arm asm code used in raaa?
02:25:02kugelnot yet
02:25:32 Join skim32 [0] (~skim@pool-96-231-141-12.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
02:26:08Dreamxtremei wonder if Rockbox will inprove my ipod battery life
02:26:14Dreamxtremewhen its out that is
02:28:58n1sDreamxtreme: on most well supported devices i think rockbox does improve the battery time
02:29:13Dreamxtremeo nce
02:29:15Dreamxtremenice
02:29:16Dreamxtremethx
02:29:34AlexPOn the majority, yes
02:29:46n1sit usually takes a while to get there for new ports though
02:30:26AlexPyes indeed
02:30:31Dreamxtremeyes
02:30:32Dreamxtreme:D
02:30:52*Dreamxtreme waits inpatiantly
02:31:32AlexPHe means that it takes a while for battery life to improve after a target is supported
02:31:46AlexPIn addition to the while it takes for the port
02:32:28n1sexactly
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02:36:10 Join JdGordon [0] (~jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
02:41:16Dreamxtremeyes
02:41:29DreamxtremeWhile being the operitive word
02:41:46AlexPSure, it is a complicated process
02:42:05stripwaxthe more people help us, the faster it will get finished
02:43:43Dreamxtremewhat can i do to help
02:43:49AlexPstripwax: It'll never get finished :)
02:43:55Dreamxtremewithout knowing alot of code
02:43:55AlexPDreamxtreme: Which target?
02:43:56stripwax:)
02:44:05AlexPDreamxtreme: Learn to code
02:44:07DreamxtremeClassic 1G
02:44:10DreamxtremeLOL
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02:48:09***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:51:53n1sah gcc 4.5.1 was released, maybe it's time to test that :)
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02:59:21kugeln1s: I saw that too. I wonder if we could benefit from -flto
02:59:36 Quit bunnyboi (Quit: Nice Scotty, now beam my clothes up too!)
03:00
03:00:20 Quit evilnick (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
03:01:40n1skugel: gevaerts did some tests with 4.5.0 and it saved very little binsize for the main binary, i think it might be useful for speed optimization though so it would be nice to test it on the codecs for example. Although i don't know how well lto really works in 4.5 trunk seems to have recieved a *lot* of lto related fixes
03:02:33n1smaybe it is as usual that new features work better after the next release
03:03:28n1scross module inlining could probably help in some cases
03:04:07kugelmaybe lto works better with -ffunction-sections/-gc-sections
03:04:54JdGordon1kugel: (just reading logs about packaging the apk)... it would be better if the codecs and bin were seperate anyway, so there is only one apk which works for all devices and downloads the required codecs and bin on first load/demand
03:05:30JdGordon1and ggiven than codecs would be the same on all arm phones it would only be the binary which would need a different one for each screen size
03:05:58n1smaybe, they have a whole-program mode that is only experimental in 4.5 that removes functions that were inlined to all their callsites
03:06:05kugelI'm not sure I like that idea
03:07:33kugelwe could easily deploy a single .apk that supports multiple screens
03:07:40JdGordon1put it this way, do we want to fiddle with one app in the market total? or one app for each device, and always be updating them?
03:08:01JdGordon1assuming we want to allow android users to get the current build and not just releases
03:09:19JdGordon1if the java side is mostly concered with loading the bin and drivers then it wont change all that often, but the main bin and codecs will just like any target
03:10:43kugelwe can have librockbox320x480.so along with librockbox480x800.so
03:10:52JdGordon1also, we dont want to download a 5MB apk which includes more than 1 screen size over 3g
03:11:09kugelor we can move the hardcoded LCD_WIDTH/LCD_HEIGHT and go for runtime evaluation
03:12:18kugelJdGordon: we don't?
03:12:47JdGordon13g data is expensive, I'd be annoyed if I was downloading more than needed
03:13:00kugeldon't update or use wlan then
03:13:57JdGordon1ok, and updates?
03:14:10JdGordon1you want to push a new apk to thhe market on every build?
03:14:40kugelI'd think only releases on the market, current builds on our site
03:15:30JdGordon1or have the apk download the .so and codecs and let the user decide how often to update those
03:17:18kugelI still don't like that idea
03:17:22JdGordon1the only real difference is my way mean less fidling with the apk once it is done
03:24:19 Quit Ramsey[LC] (Quit: (Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by dissident))))
03:25:30JdGordon1why?
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04:48:11***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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06:07:47S_a_i_n_tTheSeven: Ping?
06:08:42S_a_i_n_tThe current build of Nano2G is basically unusable, "*Panic* Stkov NAND" all over the place.
06:09:36S_a_i_n_tLoading a .cfg from the Files menu, browsing/loading a theme .cfg, just randomly during playback.
06:09:41S_a_i_n_t:/
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06:19:44JdGordon1is that error accurate?
06:20:04JdGordon1theme loading sholdnt effect the nand stack, it does hit the main thread stack a bit
06:22:32S_a_i_n_tYes, loading a theme triggers a panic, if entering "Browse Themes (or whatever it is)" doesn't trigger one first
06:22:50S_a_i_n_tDo you happen yo know where the main stack size is defined for the Nano2G?
06:22:56S_a_i_n_tI've forgotten.
06:26:26JdGordon1dunno about the main stack size
06:26:33JdGordon1is it main or nand that is stkvoing?
06:26:56S_a_i_n_tStkof NAND
06:27:37S_a_i_n_tEven entering the Database, or trying to initiate it will trigger a panic.
06:28:10S_a_i_n_tIt's *really* unstable.
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06:48:14***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
07:00
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07:53:20G4OblivionS_a_i_n_t: FS #11468, FS #11433. I guess TheSeven doesn't use his nano daily.
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08:07:18G4OblivionI forgot to mention that the nand stack usage has gone up 15% since the crashes started. (Started in late june)
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08:22:52NTKMhello
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08:48:17***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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10:18:37*[Saint] wonders what's up with the horrible userfont in the USB screen.
10:19:09[Saint]gah, errr... s/userfont/sysfont/
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10:39:30*bertrik starts looking for more unnecessary global variables/functions
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10:48:19***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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10:56:17CIA-6New commit by 03bertrik (r27645): Various minor cleanups for mini2440
10:58:05CIA-6r27645 build result: All green
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11:00
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11:16:26*[Saint] wishes for someone to commit FS #11507 to unbreak the behaviour of his theme ;)
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11:19:11[Saint]JdGordon: Have you seen FS #11507? I noticed it a few days ago and asked for someone to confirm it in here. I hadn't used %pE/S with any value higher than (10), turns out values higher than 10 were borked.
11:19:40JdGordonyeah, seen it, havnt done anything about it just yet
11:20:20[Saint]*mystery
11:20:30[Saint]bah...wrong window.
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11:33:30CIA-6New commit by 03bertrik (r27646): Various minor cleanups for cowon d2
11:35:17CIA-6r27646 build result: All green
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12:00
12:03:49JdGordon[Saint]: do you know if "last touch" and "volume button" work correctly?
12:07:06CIA-6New commit by 03bertrik (r27647): Various minor cleanups
12:08:47CIA-6r27647 build result: 30 errors, 0 warnings (bertrik committed)
12:09:50 Quit Buschel (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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12:17:19CIA-6New commit by 03bertrik (r27648): Fix #ifdef in backlight.c from previous commit
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12:18:58CIA-6r27648 build result: All green
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12:34:30kugelgevaerts: ping
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12:36:32*bertrik lost count of the number of different "software i2c" implementations in rockbox
12:40:30CIA-6New commit by 03jdgordon (r27649): FS #11507 - fix 'track starting/ending' tags, and minor timeout cleanup
12:42:10CIA-6r27649 build result: 21 errors, 0 warnings (jdgordon committed)
12:43:30CIA-6New commit by 03jdgordon (r27650): woopsies
12:45:02CIA-6r27650 build result: All green
12:46:00bertrikShouldn't 'last_touch' be inside TIME_BEFORE ?
12:47:59n1syeah, that looks really weird
12:48:08[Saint]JdGordon: I don;t have a touchscreen target to test on.
12:48:16[Saint]It would just be speculation.
12:48:19*JdGordon is a drunken goat
12:48:21***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:48:29CIA-6New commit by 03jdgordon (r27651): woopsies
12:48:31[Saint]......ok
12:48:45JdGordonbertrik: thanks :)
12:49:13JdGordonI guess that makes up for not needing 15 fix commits for the giant patch last week :p
12:49:24*JdGordon has to work on the commit count somehow!
12:49:26[Saint]hehe ;)
12:49:40[Saint]That was a mighty sweet green delta for such a massive patch
12:50:01CIA-6r27651 build result: All green
12:50:12[Saint]\o/
12:50:17JdGordonyeah, but I'm still a bit worried why it was so huge
12:51:10JdGordon800 commits to move up another spot in the ranks :(
12:51:20n1sJdGordon: do you have any ideas about FS #11508?
12:52:26JdGordoncrap, no
12:53:27JdGordonanyone got a h100?
12:54:10n1si can test on h300 if that might help
12:55:05JdGordonplease do, but I doubt it will
12:55:08JdGordonI'm guessing the different display would have an impact here
12:55:38JdGordonI'm building the sim but not holding my breath :/
12:57:27n1sh300 freezes too
12:57:48JdGordonoh cool
12:58:18JdGordonmine is dead unfortunately
12:58:30JdGordonfreeze or crash?
12:58:42n1sfreeze
12:58:51JdGordondoes the backlight work?
12:59:33n1snope, disk is spinning, backlight stuck on
13:00
13:00:01JdGordonstuck in an infinite loop somewhere :/
13:00:12n1spossible
13:00:23JdGordoncrash in the sim :)
13:00:32n1sah, nice
13:00:41n1smaybe some lcd remote thing?
13:00:56JdGordonyeah, good guess
13:05:51JdGordonyeah, remote wps isnt loading for some reason
13:10:40CIA-6New commit by 03bertrik (r27652): More minor const/static/include fixes.
13:12:31CIA-6r27652 build result: All green
13:13:41TheSevenanyone with a build environment and a nano2g around?
13:13:47TheSeven(and a bit of time)
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13:29:18JdGordonremote wps bug fixed... just gotta clean it up a bit and then commit
13:29:31JdGordonit stupidly thinks it wants to load font #2 :/
13:37:04CIA-6New commit by 03jdgordon (r27653): Fix FS #11508 - remote LCD targets crash because the remote wps fails to load
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13:38:42CIA-6r27653 build result: All green
13:39:38AlexTsokurovHello, I wrote a simple scrobbler for rockbox log-files and want to add it into the list on the wiki. Can somebody add me to Wiki Users Group ?
13:47:36pixelmaI guess that's also your wiki user name?
13:47:51AlexTsokurovAlexTsokurov
13:49:53pixelmayou should be able to edit pages now. And promise not to spam ;)
13:50:35AlexTsokurovThank you. I will :)
13:50:42pixelmasounds like something useful you want to add (for people using last.fm :)
13:56:52AlexTsokurovI hope. For me it's really ueful
14:00
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14:20:25gevaertskugel: pong
14:24:12kugelgevaerts: I feel I should add some of my progress to svn. have you had time to look at the paths patch?
14:24:50gevaertsnot after last time
14:26:44kugelgevaerts: another question. any idea how to integrate the java files? target tree or separate directory (in the root)?
14:27:07gevaertshm
14:27:17*gevaerts doesn't like tricky questions!
14:27:20 Quit merbanan (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
14:27:32kugelthe separate directory would have the advantage of being compatible with what the build tools of the sdk expect, and people could keep using eclipse if they like
14:28:43gevaertsThat's probably a serious advantage
14:30:03kugelIIUC if they were in the target tree we'd need to create the same separate directory at build time
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14:33:45gevaertsI'd say a separate tree then
14:34:43gevaertsDid the paths patch change significantly since I looked at it?
14:40:12kugelgevaerts: no, I just converted some more spots
14:40:58kugelI made a change to MAX_PATH but I'll revert that (and maybe add it back later if needed), because it significantly increases stack usage
14:42:54gevaertsI'm still a bit ambivalent about counting on the compiler to optimise away these arrays that happen to be unused because this inline function that takes them as arguments happens to ignore them. I don't really see a cleaner way though, so I'd say go ahead
14:43:09gevaertsUnless someone else objects and proposes another solution
14:43:31kugelnobody did in the past week
14:45:18*gevaerts nods
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14:48:13kugelo
14:48:15kugelok
14:48:22***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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15:00:40*bertrik hopes for a response on FS #11266, so he didn't waste time on making fixes/patches
15:02:08kugelgevaerts: btw, the music in background issue isn't an issue anymore :)
15:02:48gevaertsah, good :)
15:02:51kugelI only need to run rockbox (as a whole) as a service, because currently it's an activity and the music playback stucks a lot when outside of rockbox
15:03:10gevaertsbut a service can have a UI?
15:03:19kugelyou can force services to be a foreground tasks, you cannot do that with activities
15:03:32kugelgevaerts: I need to explore that :)
15:04:08gevaertsok, good luck :)
15:04:09kugelI can draw to our framebuffer in the service, but I guess I need to copy from that framebuffer in an activity
15:05:41kugelbut it ought to be possible to pass objects from a service to an activity within the same process
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16:48:25***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:50:33funmanrockbox boots fine on fuzev1 built with binutils cvs + gcc 4.5.1 and -flto
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16:52:43funmangoban didn't build, it seemed to use "MOVT" (are those ARMv6?)
16:54:40kugelhow about speed?
16:54:56funmani'm copying test_files, will tell in a few
16:56:54funmanthe instruction is 'movteq r6, 64', plain mov would work .. :o
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17:01:12funmanhttp://pastie.org/1069676 <- binsize & ram usage are bigger
17:02:25funmangcc also adds new warnings when enums are compared against an enum of different type
17:06:02funman-flto reduces a bit binsize compared to no -flto though: -1kB or so
17:09:53CIA-6New commit by 03funman (r27654): cmp-plugins-size: continue if a map file is absent/corrupted
17:10:12 Quit bertrik (Read error: Connection timed out)
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17:11:42CIA-6r27654 build result: All green
17:12:29kugelinteresting
17:13:19funmanon plugins -flto vs -no-flto has almost no impact, zxbox is 5.5% smaller, 4 or 5 other plugins are a tad bigger and most don't change
17:17:09 Quit stripwax (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
17:18:05funmanbtw the code sourcery people answered to stupid support requests on the mailing list but not to my report
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17:27:33funman_http://pastie.org/1069701 <- test_codec log on fuzev1
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17:28:22funman_thumb build (clipv1) + flto fails big times though
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17:41:11funmanfunman/rbstats/">http://jones.videolan.org/~videolan/funman/rbstats/ <- gitstats on rockbox repo
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17:49:46seaniCan FS #11042 be committed? A few people are using it in anger now.
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17:51:17funmananger doesn't justify committing patche
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17:53:02funmanhttp://pastie.org/1069734 <- test_codec compared with svn
17:54:25funmanflac, vorbis, ra slower
17:55:19seaniSorry, mis-spoke. I meant employing it furiously.
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17:56:29funmanthis ticket is closed
17:56:55funmanoops sorry, i made a typo
17:57:47funmanask jdgordon since he commented already
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18:08:27CIA-6New commit by 03funman (r27655): mpa: remove bad enum comparison spotted by gcc 4.5.1 ...
18:10:06CIA-6r27655 build result: All green
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18:15:31CIA-6New commit by 03kugel (r27656): Rockbox as an application: add get_user_file_path(). ...
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18:17:37CIA-6r27656 build result: 68 errors, 30 warnings (kugel committed)
18:19:50seanifunman: fair point I'll check to see if the specifics still apply
18:22:49CIA-6New commit by 03kugel (r27657): Fix reds.
18:24:50CIA-6r27657 build result: 10 errors, 0 warnings (kugel committed)
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18:26:37CIA-6New commit by 03kugel (r27658): Fix last red.
18:26:55pixelmaI wonder why http://themes.rockbox.org/index.php?themeid=197&target=iriverh100 appears on the theme site of the H100. While currently white on dark themes which only use the global fore- or background setting and don't set viewport colours in the WPS are allowed, this one specifically sets %Vb in some places and should be rejected by checkwps (and seems to be rejected on target, based on something in the forums)
18:28:41CIA-6r27658 build result: All green
18:30:12pixelmait also contains an Iaudio RWPS but that's text only and the viewports it sets will probably also work on the Iriver remote
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18:38:59CIA-6New commit by 03funman (r27659): mpegplayer mad: apply r27655 fix
18:39:09CIA-6New commit by 03funman (r27660): doom: fix types mismatch spotted by gcc 4.5.1 ...
18:40:29funmankugel: codec_get_full_path() -> reversed CODECS_DIR and CODEC_EXTENSION ?
18:40:56CIA-6r27659 build result: All green
18:41:17kugelfunman: CODEC_EXTENSION is not a parameter, it's part of the format string
18:41:36funmanoops ok
18:42:50CIA-6r27660 build result: All green
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18:54:39kugelalright, I'll shove some bits of the android port into svn, but don't expect it to work
18:55:13funmancan we expect it to build?
19:00
19:01:48kugeluhm, no :)
19:04:11kugelmaybe I'll make sure it builds before committing to svn
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20:32:05*TheSeven has a suspicion where the occasional nano2g usb instability could come from
20:32:13TheSeventhere's a race condition in the interrupt handler...
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20:57:12AlexPbieber: Is the themeeditor meant to build atm, or am I doing something silly (more likely!) - I get this: http://pastebin.com/x4X5pHng
20:58:03funmancomes after recent const changes probably
20:58:50AlexPfunman: Is it a simple fix?
20:59:06funmandunno
20:59:26AlexPOK :)
20:59:48funmanwell, most probably in fact
21:00
21:00:36CIA-6New commit by 03funman (r27661): themeeditor: fix build
21:01:16AlexPta :)
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21:02:37CIA-6r27661 build result: All green
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21:02:50funmani guess it's time to add it to the build system?
21:03:21AlexPWould be good I think, seeing as lots of code is shared
21:04:32AlexPas I understand it :)
21:05:13AlexPMind you, would need qt and things installed
21:05:23AlexPOn a/the client(s)
21:06:36funmanadd new requirement
21:07:25bieberAlexP: It looks like some changes to the skin parser broke it for you, but it's still compiling fine on my system
21:07:39AlexPbieber: funman just fixed it :)
21:07:40bieberOh, funman fixed it. Thanks :)
21:07:46funmanm68k, arm-eabi-gcc444, sdl, "qt4" <-
21:07:57AlexPfunman: Sure, was just saying
21:18:10pixelmafunman: you forgot sh
21:19:46funmanit wasn't an exhaustive list
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21:42:26lhrc_can someone add me to theWikiUsersGroup so I can update ? (wiki: MikeyP)
21:43:15lhrc_want to update results with testing the micromemo with iPod video. Thanks.
21:44:14funmanlhrc_: first create an username with your full name
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21:47:12lhrc_gotcha. will do.
21:53:08AlexPbieber: Very small point on the themeeditor (which is coming along brilliantly btw :)) - the %ca tag which should show abbreviated day (e.g. Sun, Mon etc.) works fine on target, but in the editor shows "2" instead of an example day. It threw me for a minute.
21:53:28bieberOh, woops
21:53:32bieberThanks for the heads up
21:54:23AlexPno worries :)
21:56:21lhrc_ok, I re-registered on the wiki as MikePittaro, if someone can add me to the user list. Also, MikeyP is now a dead wiki login, if some want to clean it up - sorry aobut the extra admin overhaed.
21:57:51AlexPlhrc_: OK, done
22:00
22:00:30delt_zZzZHello
22:00:35 Nick delt_zZzZ is now known as delt (1000@ftp.deimos.ca)
22:00:42deltoops sry
22:01:23deltanyway, question about the text viewer: how do i get long lines to NOT be split at about 70 characters?
22:01:56lhrc_thx
22:02:06deltquite annoying when im trying to find someone's phone number :/
22:02:38AlexPdelt: All the options should be in the manual - if there isn't something mentioned there I assume it can't be done
22:03:15deltworked fine with an old version (on ipod nano) from 2008
22:03:37delt(which ironically had a much smaller screen res)
22:04:53AlexPThe text viewer has been worked on quite a lot recently
22:05:32deltthe problem with that version was that it was stuck using the default font (i don't like using a monospace font for the global interface) - in this one i can set a separate font for the text viewer
22:05:57deltfont/settings even for each individual file in fact =) which is cool
22:05:59AlexPLooks like it should be possible to control line breaking and word wrapping etc: http://download.rockbox.org/daily/manual/rockbox-iaudiox5/rockbox-buildch11.html#x14-24600011.3.14
22:06:42kugelgah, something is borked
22:07:47deltline mode set to normal (break at newlines) in which case word wrap shouldn't matter (cut words or at spaces only)
22:08:32deltchecking "wide view" dont remember what that does..
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22:10:21deltAlexP: the page talks about a "scroll settings" with submenus for horiz/vertical scrolling, not there in rb 3.6
22:10:37AlexPYes, the manual I linked is for a current build
22:10:50AlexPThe work might have been done post 3.6, I can't remember
22:11:01deltah ok
22:11:43deltbtw, how does the sandisk e200 series battery life cope with ogg/vorbis, as compared to mp3, aac, etc....?
22:12:46 Quit Barahir_ (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
22:14:05AlexPdelt: There is a page on the wiki somewhere about that, but it may or may not be up-to-date
22:14:26deltok, i'll do some benchmarks and send you the results
22:14:34delt(if it can be of any help)
22:15:13AlexPSure - see if you can find the wiki page first
22:15:27AlexPAlso the battery benchmark page - it lays out testing methodology
22:15:52deltok, noted. how about the blue light in the circular thingy? (if anyone has a sansa e2x0)
22:16:15kugelI somehow destroyed raaa on android :(
22:16:16AlexPDoesn't matter, as you don't play while testing
22:16:23AlexPer, play with it
22:16:26AlexPSo it stays off
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22:16:56deltwhat would be nice is an auto-off delay of 0 seconds
22:17:22deltie. it ONLY lights up when there is control input, then immediately turns off when you stop pressing buttons
22:17:45delthaving it still on even for 1 second afterwards is still kind of annoying.
22:19:25deltoh speaking of auto-off delays, what happened to that backlight fadeout setting where i can have the screen slowly fade to black over 5 or 10 seconds, instead of almost instantly?
22:19:45deltnow there's just a on/off for fade in and fade out :(
22:20:02delt2sec i grab the ipod nano
22:22:27deltgeneral settings -> display -> lcd settings -> backlight fade in (off / 100ms to 2000ms), backlight fade out (off / 100ms to 10000ms)
22:22:48kugelit doesn't draw anymore!
22:23:25delt!info raaa
22:24:20 Nick delt is now known as wuerfel (1000@ftp.deimos.ca)
22:24:31wuerfel:)
22:25:03AlexPwuerfel: The setting got removed as being a bit pointless IIRC
22:25:24AlexPand raaa is Rockbox as an App (for running on e.g. Android phones)
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22:26:06deltre: raaa oh ok.
22:26:17deltre: backlight delay WUH????
22:26:26deltpointless :/
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22:28:20deltwould it be, in any way possible, to umm.... mark that setting as being "not so pointless" and considered for re-integration into rb?
22:28:52delt/* officiall feature, um.. re-request */
22:29:01AlexPWe don't have feature requests :)
22:29:23deltok, unofficial one :D
22:29:40AlexPBut I suppose you could ask on the dev mailing list. IIRC it was removed as the menus are already complicated enough at it was a really edge "feature"
22:29:47AlexPbut I may be well off the mark
22:29:59AlexPkugel: You were playing with backlight if I recall?
22:30:01deltok, thanks
22:30:38[Saint]IIUC the backlight fade in/out can still be set via the config file.
22:30:42AlexPI wouldn't hold your breath
22:30:43deltafter "unofficial" next thing i was gonna say was.. how about "that's an order, private" jk
22:30:50AlexP[Saint]: Really?
22:30:57[Saint]AFAIK, yes.
22:31:06AlexPI very much dislike config file only options
22:31:07deltAlexP: good thing, cause i wouldn't hold yours either =)
22:31:16delt[Saint]: awesome!
22:31:44delti very much don't care if an option is config file only, when you just set it once then forget about it
22:31:56AlexPIt isn't a good thing in general
22:32:07deltyeah i know, but so is cluttering up the menus, like you said
22:32:19 Join captainkewllllll [0] (~captainke@207-38-215-126.c3-0.nyr-ubr1.nyr.ny.cable.rcn.com)
22:32:19AlexPThey don't get documented properly, people forget, settings should either be full citizens or not at all
22:32:20deltunless it's well structured, which imho it was with the backlight thing
22:32:22[Saint]No, it isn't. But, it's one of the things I chick in my fixed.cfg and never have to worry about.
22:32:36[Saint]*chuck
22:32:48delt[Saint]: can you post the line here?
22:33:02deltie setting = value
22:33:08[Saint]you can find it in the config options in the wiki.
22:33:17[Saint]peole need to SEARCH for answers!!!
22:33:18deltah, thats even better thanks!
22:33:31AlexP[Saint]: What is the setting?
22:33:57deltsaint: true, very true. but in order to SEARCH, people need to KNOW there's a wiki page containing config file options =)
22:34:24AlexPI can't find it in the manual config file settings page
22:34:37AlexPdelt: This is why config file only options are shit
22:35:10deltAlexP: unless they're documented somewhere they can be found (imho)
22:35:12[Saint]AlexP: For my Nano1G fixed.cfg I have:
22:35:15[Saint]backlight fade in: 2000
22:35:15[Saint]backlight fade out: 10000
22:35:20AlexPthanks
22:35:23[Saint]And my backlight works as expected.
22:35:32[Saint]I didn;t even notice it had been removed :P
22:35:39AlexPNow which targets does that work for and what are the limits?
22:35:56AlexPdelt: We have very very few which is why people tend to forget as well
22:36:07[Saint]I'm pretty sure those are the max fade in/out values
22:36:10[Saint]min == 0
22:36:17AlexPFor all targets, or just for that one?
22:36:17deltvery few... config options that aren't in the UI?
22:36:31AlexPNot all support fading, some are hardware, some are software etc. etc.
22:36:35AlexPdelt: yes
22:36:42[Saint]Alep: Pass, for all targets I assume...but, I'm not sure...sorry.
22:36:55AlexPI can assure you not for all targets :)
22:37:12[Saint]I'm pretty sure the Nano2G always just had on/off
22:37:28[Saint]I don't recall ever being able to set a value on the 2g
22:37:29deltand my toaster doesn't support more than 0 levels of brightness
22:37:41AlexPWhat's the point?
22:37:47[Saint]Prettiness.
22:37:57AlexPNo, I mean him mentioning his toaster
22:38:05[Saint]It looks a *lot* better not abruptly switching on to full.
22:38:10AlexPI get why people might want to change the backlight fade time
22:38:13[Saint]Oh, that, nothing.
22:38:39AlexPEven though I personally consider it unimportant (or rather unimportant to be configurable, it should be set to a fixed amount)
22:38:47delthehe ... was just thinking about those old 512kb players from years ago
22:39:13[Saint]delt: probably better conversation for #rockbox-community
22:39:19deltsry
22:39:29deltdidnt mean to start cluttering up the channel
22:40:05deltanyway, i personally think it should be set to a fixed -reasonable default- ....and if you don't want to change it, then don't
22:40:13[Saint]AlexP: Why was the setting even removed from the user-settable list? that kinda sucks ass...there's way more pointless "set & forget" settings that no-one would miss IMO
22:40:16kugelAlexP: it's ages ago, but yea :)
22:40:20deltbut some ppl (including me) can really use the ability to change the fadeout time
22:41:04AlexPkugel: So it seems that the ability to change fade in and out time still exists, but is config file only?
22:41:04delt(just my $0.02)
22:41:13 Quit dfkt (Quit: -= SysReset 2.53=- Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.)
22:41:16kugelAlexP: no, it's also in the lcd settings
22:41:26 Join Buschel [0] (~chatzilla@p54A3E1BF.dip.t-dialin.net)
22:41:31kugeland fade in/out time is not changeable on all targets
22:41:37AlexPffs - I clearly didn't check - I just trusted people!
22:41:52[Saint]Aha...lesson one, don't take peoples word for things... :P
22:42:03AlexPI assumed he had checked before asking about it
22:42:08*[Saint] is guilty of this as well, and scowls at delt.
22:42:31AlexP[Saint]: It is there on the nano 2g menu I assume?
22:42:38deltso... #ifdef conditional_compile
22:43:30AlexPyes, the option is there on e.g. c200
22:43:36*AlexP glares at delt
22:43:48*delt feels glared at
22:43:52[Saint]AlexP: No. it isn't...but, as I said I don;t recally *ever* being able to set it on device.
22:43:58[Saint](for the Nano2G)
22:44:11deltnano 1g has it.... why would apple remove it?
22:44:22AlexPApple has nothing to do with it
22:44:36AlexP[Saint]: And if you change your config file values it definitely changes?
22:44:40deltoh... i thought you were talking about the hardware capable/not capable of doing it
22:44:55AlexPIf so, the bug is that it doesn't appear in the menu
22:45:25deltthat's one way of seeing it, which imho is totally valid
22:46:33delttho personally i'd consider it more like a "missing feature" than a bug =)
22:46:55delt(the fact that it doesnt show up in the menus, that is)
22:47:02AlexPNo, if the feature exists and is settable and the menu option is meant to be there but isn't, then it is a bug
22:48:32***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:48:39[Saint]Seems the Nano2g just isn;t capable of setting a backlight fade in/out value.
22:48:48[Saint]It's not in the config or the settings.
22:49:04[Saint]It just *does* fade in/out.
22:49:21deltie. via software?
22:49:53deltas in, take each pixel value, multiply it by a certain (time based) coefficient, .....
22:49:58[Saint]Via however the fuck it does it, but, it isn't user definable.
22:50:03[Saint](at least at present)
22:51:02AlexPRight, so that ties in with not having the setting :)
22:51:06AlexPSo no bug after all
22:51:42[Saint]Well...perhaps it *could* have the setting, and just...*doesn't*?
22:51:49*[Saint] has no idea about that though
22:51:50deltAlexP: well, the fact that i can set backlight fadeout delay by simply editing the config file (as opposed to hacking the source code) to me is a bonus feature, not a bug
22:52:01AlexPCan you though?
22:52:12[Saint]delt: it isn;t possible, you've been misreading
22:52:20AlexPNot all targets can have it configurable
22:52:23[Saint]the backlight just *does* fade in/out.
22:52:32AlexPSome do it in hardware and are just fixed
22:52:35[Saint]It doesn't have anything to do with a setting you applied.
22:52:46deltjust *does* as in, rb tells the hardware "set brightness to X" ...?
22:52:56AlexPyes
22:53:00delt16:38 < [Saint]> backlight fade in: 2000
22:53:00delt16:38 < [Saint]> backlight fade out: 10000
22:53:02delt16:39 < [Saint]> And my backlight works as expected.
22:53:06AlexPRead on
22:53:13AlexPHe just tested and that has no effect
22:53:14[Saint]did you notice the "Nano1G' there?
22:53:25AlexP* on the nano 2G
22:53:35AlexPAsk kugel for details of how things work
22:54:09deltok... so on the sansa e200 it won't work?
22:54:32kugelyea
22:54:47deltfade in/out seems to work but the values are either hard coded or not config'able from the interface
22:55:00kugelI think only gigabeatf and some ipods have the time setting
22:55:06[Saint]And yes, I've tested on the Nano2g just now...all possible .cfg settings are dumped when you do "Settings/Manage Settings/Save .cfg File" fade in/out isn't present on the Nano2g.
22:55:08deltor the hardware is actually built with these values?
22:55:51kugeldelt: the e200 doesn't have enough levels to make the time a useful configuration option
22:55:52[Saint][08:55] <delt> fade in/out seems to work but the values are either hard coded or not config'able from the interface
22:55:57[Saint]What makes you say that?
22:56:10[Saint]the ones that *are* configurable, are configurable.
22:56:17deltkugel: aahhhh now i get it!!! thanks!
22:56:42*delt thanks kugel for a short, concise and (i presume) exact answer that makes sense
22:57:06AlexPkugel: gigabeat F doesn't seem to, c200 and S do
22:57:57kugel:?
22:58:05kugelc200 and beast should have on/off only
22:58:45AlexPOh, sorry, mea culpa
22:58:53*kugel would like to know what change he forgot the take over that breaks RaaA now
22:58:58deltok, so that answers this question, now the related one: how much battery life is consumed (on sandisk e260) by just being idle, screen turned off, but unit still running? (system settings -> idle power off)
22:59:10AlexPSome
22:59:23deltAlexP: mais elle coule pas?
22:59:24delthehe
22:59:38AlexP#rockbox-community
22:59:47deltoh ... right sorry
22:59:51AlexPI assume you mean playing music?
23:00
23:01:05[Saint]Can you not check this yourself with the debug screen?
23:01:20[Saint]Debug/Battery?
23:02:19 Quit DewiL (Quit: Leaving.)
23:10:17*amiconn doesn't like the binsize change from r27656, given that it should be a no-op on real targets :\\
23:20:15Buschelmt: I have added some comments and patches to FS #11511. your comments are welcome
23:23:34pixelmaBuschel: are you the musepack guy?
23:23:59Buschelpixelma: yes, the initial one
23:24:26 Nick delt is now known as delt_away (1000@ftp.deimos.ca)
23:24:51pixelmadid you see http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=25354.msg170029#msg170029 (not sure if it is a SansaAMS only problem though)?
23:25:47pixelmaI meant the whole thread
23:27:05Buschelpixelma: yes, I already commented the flyspray entry. I have no clue what's going on. and I cannot reproduce it. most likely this sounds like a buffering issue...
23:30:35 Quit Ramsey[LC] (Remote host closed the connection)
23:31:49 Join Ramsey[LC] [0] (~RamseyLC]@94.75.220.181)
23:32:25 Part lhrc_
23:32:37pixelmaok
23:32:56 Join einhirn [0] (~Miranda@p5485075D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
23:33:11pixelmamaybe someone should get you an AMS Sansa ;)
23:33:28 Quit Ramsey[LC] (Remote host closed the connection)
23:33:39 Quit petur (Quit: Leaving)
23:33:40Buschelor someone with an AMS Sansa starts to debug ;)
23:33:52 Join Ramsey[LC] [0] (~RamseyLC]@94.75.220.183)
23:37:42[Saint]Someone can get me an AMS Sansa and I'll start to debug ;)
23:37:44 Quit domonoky (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
23:37:48[Saint]...but not a clip :)
23:38:39*[Saint] requests a Fuze :D
23:53:09bertrikdelt_away, less than 30 mA
23:53:26 Quit einhirn (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
23:55:54 Quit bertrik (Quit: :tiuQ)

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