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#rockbox log for 2010-08-15

00:07:43 Join ehntoo [0] (
00:10:30 Quit ender` (Quit: Perl actually stands for Pathologically Eclectic Rubbish Lister, but don't tell anyone I said that.-- man perl)
00:11:06ehntoodoes anyone know who I should talk to about the status of getting custom code running on the Zune?
00:11:22 Quit CaptainKwel (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
00:11:37ehntooI just came into posession of one, and I'm liking the solid feel of my hardware, but man... the software...
00:11:52ehntoo*the zune's hardware
00:13:58saratogaehntoo: no one knows how to do that, so you're on your own
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01:01:15amiconnstripwax: Around two hours per toolchain seems normal for cygwin on a modernish system
01:01:46stripwaxamiconn - thx.
01:03:44 Join perfectdrug [0] (
01:03:51 Quit fdinel (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
01:05:37perfectdrughi I'm trying to build an android build on ubuntu and I run succesfully but it says "/bin/sh: /build/prebuilt/linux-x86/arm-eabi-4.4.0/bin/arm-eabi-gcc: not found"
01:06:24 Quit sinthetek (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
01:06:24perfectdrugwhat could be the problem?
01:06:34saratogawhere did you install arm-eabi-gcc to?
01:07:10perfectdrugI'm not sure, I just started the script
01:07:12 Join long [0] (
01:07:56saratogawhen the script finishes i think it says where it built the toolchain
01:08:04 Quit stripwax (Quit:
01:08:34perfectdrugI already closed the terminalwindow
01:08:39longhey, i have a minor problem w/ the clip v2 port of rockbox. on my device, at very low volume levels, a noise akin to a cd player skipping can be heard, no matter the source file being played. it stops when playback stops, but resumes when playback resumes. any clue what that might be?
01:08:48 Join sinthetek [0] (~sinthetek@unaffiliated/sinthetek)
01:10:14saratogaperfectdrug: i guess open up the script or run it again, figure out where it was building, and see if the files ended up there
01:10:33perfectdrugsaratoga: ok will try thanks
01:13:28longthere's nothing on the rockbox forums about this problem, nor does a google search bring up anything except for the manual that recommends setting the frame buffer higher, but that's not an option in the current clip v2 rockbox firmware.
01:13:53saratogalong: what frame buffer?
01:15:24longsorry, i mean the anti-skip buffer noted here:
01:15:50longclearly because that's for the ipod ;-)
01:16:24Torneit's not an option on the clipv2 becaue it's not necessary
01:16:37Tornedisk-based targets need it because they take time to spin up the drive
01:17:47 Join h3po [0] (
01:18:04longi understand that, certainly, but what could be causing the skipping sound on my clip?
01:19:45saratogawhat files skip
01:19:47longit's 4 "skips" per second, roughly, and it sounds almost exactly the same as an old cdplayer skipping
01:20:31longthe cd skipping sound is present for all filetypes during playback, but stops when playback is paused, and i can hear it when volume is at 0
01:20:54longpossibly a voltage regulation issue within the soc?
01:21:03Torneis the actual music still playing normally at the same time?
01:21:05saratogaso its not actually skipping, just a background sound?
01:21:16longtorne: yes, the music still plays normally
01:21:25saratoga"Clipv2: There is some very annoying noise which can be heard especially at low volume."
01:21:28saratogathat sound like it?
01:21:42longsaratoga: correct, it's a background noise generated internally by the device somehow, which i can describe as sounding like a cd skipping
01:21:58Torneright. that's a known thing
01:22:05longsaratoga: sure, as that's a rather general catch-all, but yeah.
01:22:16saratogalong: well if someone knew what caused that, they'd probably mention it on the wiki
01:22:19longbleh. what's the bug page for this?
01:22:25Tornethat's not a general catch-all.. that's a specific thing
01:22:26saratogaprobably not much use asking us about it
01:22:29Tornewe don't know what *causes* it
01:22:34Tornebut it's still a specific issue :)
01:22:37longok =)
01:23:12saratogafor what its worth skipping is usually understood to be when the audio cuts out and then back in
01:23:26 Join r0b- [0] (
01:23:46saratogausually noise thats unrelated to the audio would be called "background" or "hum"
01:24:01longright, but some old cdplayers would also make this sound while playing back normally, most notably some of the portable sony tanks back in the early 1990s
01:24:31longthis is definitely not a hum, but i understand what you're getting at. thanks :-)
01:24:38saratogaunless you're going to send us one of those cdplayers, its not really helpful to compare it to them
01:24:48saratogayou're probably better off just using the right words
01:25:04longi just donated my last one to the local goodwill at the beginning of summer
01:28:36longthanks for the answer. i had forgotten how wonderful irc was. :-)
01:41:46thefirstMDoes anyone know if it might be possible to implement vsync for the ipodnano2g's LCD driver, and if so, how hard?
01:42:58 Quit h3po (Quit: Leaving.)
01:46:23saratogaprobably not that hard, but what needs it?
01:46:57thefirstMNothing really needs it, but it would just make animation be smoother.
01:47:47thefirstMAnd, tearing can be quite obvious in DOOM and some of the games playable on Rockboy.
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01:54:36soaps/skip/glitch/ and we can all agree
01:57:42saratogaits not really a glitch
01:57:50saratogaits like the SD card noise on the e200v1
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03:48:53bieberJdGordon1: The theme editor shouldn't ever return an error if the parser isn't erroring out, can you give me an example?
03:49:28JdGordon1 p, li { white-space: pre-wrap; } %Vp(1, %?ia<%it - %in|%fn>)
03:49:49JdGordon1I removed the 3rd param from tag_table.c but it still says not enough params?
03:50:30CIA-9New commit by 03bieber (r27818): Theme Editor: Editor font/color settings are now applied to config documents
03:51:08JdGordon1also I had a quick look and have no idea how to go about updating the %xd tag :/
03:51:45bieberOh boy, that's crashing the Theme Editor
03:52:10JdGordon1did you svn up?
03:52:18CIA-9r27818 build result: All green
03:52:31bieberIt's crashing in rendering, which at least means it parses
03:52:51JdGordon1wierd, why the heck isnt it working for me?
03:53:03JdGordon1the pastebin from last night shuld stop it crashing at leeast
03:53:03bieberMaybe you need to force a rebuild of the skin parser?
03:53:12JdGordon1I did
03:53:24bieberI'm guessing you made the id3-missing branch of the tag optional?
03:53:55JdGordon1removed completly, what it does now is just render that one line as normal
03:53:56 Quit r0b- (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
03:54:00JdGordon1condiionals are usable
03:54:42bieberOh, well that will make it a lot simpler
03:54:55bieberI'll go ahead and fix that up in my renderer now
03:55:06JdGordon1aweseom :)
03:56:02bieberFinally, you make a change that lets me rip out some complexity :P
03:56:38JdGordon1my appologies :)
03:57:09JdGordon1what do you mean "finally"? :/
03:57:24bieberWell, if you don't count that whole syntax restructuring thing ;)
03:59:24JdGordon1have you done any doc about how to update/add new tags to the editor?
03:59:48JdGordon1I've got a bunch of features I want to add the the bars
03:59:52JdGordon1and the xd tag changes :)
03:59:57bieberNo, I'll do a write-up on it all tomorrow
04:00:04JdGordon1(please remove the horrible swicth on the tag names) :)
04:00:24bieberWill it be a killer flaw if the playlist entries all show the same data?
04:04:09CIA-9New commit by 03bieber (r27819): Theme Editor: Changed playlist rendering to match new syntax
04:04:35bieberDo you have an id constant in the tag table to build a single-layer switch statement on yet?
04:06:14CIA-9r27819 build result: All green
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07:29:42JdGordonbieber: (very late reply: ) ) pardon?
07:30:34JdGordontag.type is what the c code uses
07:30:40JdGordonno reason you cant use it also
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07:40:29S_a_i_n_t"I couldnt be bothered with the hassle of breaking themes so the old way still works" is that *really* the hassle you were avoiding?
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07:56:51*S_a_i_n_t wonders where kugel is...
07:57:11S_a_i_n_t"Icons, get your RaaA icons here..."
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08:46:47***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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08:59:06S_a_i_n_tkugel: I cleaned them up a little
08:59:12S_a_i_n_t(RaaA icons)
09:08:25CIA-9New commit by 03learman (r27820): Allow 'long' labels with single-argument %xd too. The label need to be at least 3 chars long (2 chars are treated as a single-letter-label image with ...
09:10:05CIA-9r27820 build result: All green
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09:12:36S_a_i_n_tLear: Does that allow %xl(foo,foo.bmp,0,0) - %xd(foo)? Or am I misunderstanding?
09:13:01LearS_a_i_n_t: Yes.
09:13:29S_a_i_n_tAha, thankyou...just makinging sure I understood it.
09:13:39S_a_i_n_t*errr...making, even.
09:14:42S_a_i_n_tHmmmmm...the %xl/d tag descriptions in the manual are going to be difficult.
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10:04:09S_a_i_n_tstripwax: probably too late, but, here
10:04:53S_a_i_n_t+'s some CygWin toolchains that dreamlayers built 21:July:2010 dreamlayers/asset/arm-elf-eabi-tar-bz2">
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10:41:58 Join LordTroll [0] (
10:43:02LordTrollDoes rockbox read flac ape ogg and wav ?
10:43:54LordTroll2) does reproduce tat 24 bit ?
10:46:01LordTroll3) Bad menù managment on sansa fuze
10:46:51***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:50:41LordTroll4) why I got few mp3 that I don't put?
10:53:41 Join Highlander [0] (
10:53:57n1syes rockbox supports all those formats
10:54:25n1soutput is dithered or truncated to 16 bits before sendeing it to the dac though
10:54:37n1s3) ?
10:54:49n1salso 4) ?
10:55:07*Lear points out that dithering is optional.
10:55:12LordTroll3) bad menu' buttons combination
10:55:16LordTrollreally bad
10:55:44LordTroll4) Yep, I got some stuff into my mp3 reader tat I did not put in
10:55:58LordTrollIf I delete it, It re-appears
10:57:02n1sLordTroll: i don't understand what you mean by "bad menu' buttons combination", are you saying the keymap is bad?
10:59:00LordTrollthe relationship between layer menù and buttons
10:59:08LordTrollIn particular one thing
10:59:54LordTrollWhen You are playing a song it's really frustrating to come back into main screen
11:02:06n1swhat is the "main screen" here? also have you checked the manual?
11:02:32LordTrollI know how to come back but is a bad-combination
11:02:52LordTroll10 clicks to come back
11:02:56LordTrolland lay another song
11:03:07n1s"come back" from wps to where?
11:03:26LordTrollfrom the song playing status
11:03:43LordTrolltp the main screen center menu'
11:03:54LordTrollon SANSA FUZE
11:03:57LearTried pressing select while on the WPS? That returns you to the file browser.
11:05:51LordTrollanyhow I noticed 1 improvementi on life battery
11:05:57LordTrollmore durabile
11:06:21LordTrollI dislike the volume managment
11:06:27LordTrolland the logo then
11:06:37LordTrollI just say you to give a feedback
11:06:51LordTrollas far as you care
11:07:07LearSelect == the button "in" the wheel.
11:07:32LordTrollin the middle of the wheel ?
11:07:55LordTrollYeah I always ue the wheel
11:08:30LordTrollYo have to make a frustrating tuen around
11:09:01LordTrollin order to achieve the main menu' again
11:09:37LordTrolland, over all, un-ractional
11:09:58LordTrollYou havve to push an unractional sequence
11:10:12LearYou get to the main menu using the "menu" button ("down" on the wheel).
11:10:18LordTrollthis is the main frustrating factor
11:10:23LordTrollthe unractional
11:11:51LordTrollnow I try
11:12:28LordTrollrockbox has deleted
11:12:43LordTrollI swear
11:13:30LordTrollI had rockbox, I plugged sansafuze to pc. No I umplugged it to try your tips and I have the old os software and no more rock box
11:13:40LordTrollI only deleted old mp3's
11:13:52LordTrollah ok
11:14:00LordTrollon reboot now I have rockbox
11:14:09LordTrollok now I try your tip
11:15:08S_a_i_n_tYou know that noone's forcing you to use Rockbox right? If you have a better suggestion for the keymap, put a patch on the tracker.
11:15:09LearRockbox doesn't support USB on all target. If not, it reboots to the OF (the "old os") when plugged.
11:15:16LordTrollwadda noob
11:15:21LordTrollyeah your tip works
11:15:38LordTrollbut there is another problem now
11:15:58LearIt's all in the manual too.
11:16:03LordTrollThe file I deleted still figure out
11:16:26LordTrollIt keeps the old folder Ideeeleted
11:16:50S_a_i_n_tre-initialise the database.
11:18:05LordTrolland if I play the songs, since I deleted them, they don't start
11:18:15LordTrollbut I got the root
11:18:32S_a_i_n_twell, that's hardly a can't play what isn't there.
11:18:36LordTrollok I re-instal the database hoping this weren't the routinne procedure
11:18:48S_a_i_n_tSet the database to autoupdate, or re-initialise the database.
11:19:22LordTrollI try to re-boot before to make other mess
11:20:07LordTrollno way..
11:20:18LordTrollThe root keeps stay
11:21:18LordTroll. OH.. here are the dams files I never put into: 1) maintitle never was. 2) I want a job 2)Hi Gabriel 4) meeting maggie etc etc etc
11:21:45JdGordonLordTroll: you are very hard to understand. Try slowing down a bit and not pressing enter so often please
11:21:49LordTroll17 folders
11:22:23S_a_i_n_tLordTroll: I can assure you that Rockbox ceratinly didn;t put the files/folders on your device.
11:23:09LordTrollOk I believe you. I'd just report my probs
11:23:44S_a_i_n_tThat isn't really a rockbox problem though, we have no control what files you do/don't add to your device.
11:24:19LordTrolleh but I didn't know before you told me that rockbox doesn't put anything
11:26:43LordTrollOk now I need to fix the ghost files
11:28:56LordTrollHow to re-initializate the database?
11:29:50S_a_i_n_tLordTroll: The manual is a good place to find answers like that.
11:30:37LordTrollok ok
11:30:38S_a_i_n_tSettings - General Settings - Database - Initialise Now
11:31:39LordTrollthx :)
11:32:16 Quit Judas_PhD (Quit: Aaarrrggghhh!!!)
11:32:18LordTrollBuilding database
11:32:50S_a_i_n_tYou'll also want to make sure that Auto Update is set to "Yes". (Settings - General Settings - Database - Auto Update - Yes)
11:33:11LordTrollok boss
11:34:12LordTrollBuilding database - how long should it take?
11:34:40LordTrollfew minutes or few seconds ?
11:36:34LordTrollwell old root has fade out!
11:36:43LordTrollWaiting for new mp3's
11:45:46LordTrollvery well
11:45:53LordTrollnow all runs perfect
11:46:03LordTrollbye bye see you
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11:50:33n1sok, so i was using my newly aquired fuzev1 today and was surprised to find that a long play/pause button press in the wps did nothing and that stop was mapped to long home. So would anyone object to stop moving to long play/pause? how about for the e200? (it's on long power there)
11:51:14n1sthe stop action was on long play/pause on e200 but that was changed about 3 years ago...
11:51:43n1sit is on long play/pause on the ipods which was the source of my initial confusion
11:52:37n1sand if people seriously object to moving it, would it be ok to have the stop action on long play/pause as well as its current button action?
11:53:24LearStop isn't long power on the e200...
11:53:41pixelman1s: does the commit message of the change 3 years ago tell something about the reasons for it? To me as a user who doesn't have one of these targets long Play sounds sensible but I wonder why it was changed... if it was
11:53:44n1sa, right short power
11:54:31n1spixelma: see here
11:55:01pixelmamaybe short presses were preferred and/or someone thought it would feel similar to the H300 or so?
11:56:44n1syes, the e200 has stop on a short button press now, that's nicer
11:57:49n1si'll leave that alone then, but how about the fuze? :)
12:02:21S_a_i_n_tWhile we're at it, I'd like to breathe some life into the idea proposed recently of moving the context menu to "long menu" of the iPods.
12:02:36S_a_i_n_tCan't remember who it was that mentioned it, but I liked the idea ;)
12:02:45n1si still dont' like that
12:03:01JdGordonone discussion at a time :)
12:03:13JdGordonwhat key is the hotkey on the fuze?
12:03:19n1sshort home
12:03:36JdGordonah ok, I must have an old build then...
12:03:44JdGordondoesnt power do stop?
12:04:01JdGordonhmm, apparently not
12:04:17*TheSeven starts the third discussion at this time :)
12:04:27TheSevenwhat shall we do about the nano2g bootloader problem?
12:04:59*S_a_i_n_t needs some clueing in as to what "the bootloader problem" is.
12:05:14TheSeventhe RB bootloader being slow and causing WSODs
12:05:20JdGordonn1s: after a 10s play with my fuze I tend to agree that moving stop to long play might be ideal, frees up the home button, although it should be on the power switch (considering stop is mostly redundant anyway)
12:05:21TheSevenIIUC flashing rockbox itself to NOR isn't what we officially want
12:05:57TheSevenalso, the FTL recovery code needs ~1.1MB of RAM
12:05:58S_a_i_n_tTheSeven: I think it's "fancy bootloaders" in general...but I may be mistaken.
12:06:04JdGordonkeymap changes do need more discussion than just a quicky in irc though
12:06:10n1sJdGordon: the power switch is kind of hard to operate though
12:06:19TheSevenS_a_i_n_t: That's a different problem (with iLoader this time)
12:06:22n1sJdGordon: yes, i'll send a mail to the list
12:06:27JdGordonthere is almost no reason to ever need to actually stop playback though
12:06:50n1sJdGordon: that is also another discussion
12:07:00S_a_i_n_tTheSeven: So, what are the options? As you see them.
12:07:01LearJdGordon: With bookmark on stop, it is useful to stop.
12:07:03JdGordonno meta discussions!
12:07:35JdGordonLear: yes but pressing pause and leaving it, or later stoping will create the bookmark also
12:07:36JdGordonwont it?
12:08:04TheSevenI've integrated nandfsck into the FTL used by emBIOS, which seems to be working well. Do we want to do the same thing in the RB bootloader? (which would then need to have a R/W FTL)?
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12:08:37*S_a_i_n_t struggles with "R/W"
12:08:46S_a_i_n_tSorry, not switched on apparently.
12:08:48LearNot if you switch to another track/playlist, I think.
12:09:35JdGordonTheSeven: can we offer two bootloaders?
12:10:05TheSevenJdGordon: maybe? I'm not "we" :P
12:10:22TheSevenbut if we want to go the NOR way, we should probably do it
12:10:25S_a_i_n_tYou're pretty much "Mr. Nano2G " though ;)
12:10:45TheSeven(or rather make one work both as a NOR and NAND bootloader)
12:10:59S_a_i_n_tthat's be awesome.
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12:11:55TheSevenJdGordon: what are you planning?
12:12:08JdGordon"we" as in rockbox...
12:13:23TheSevenwe probably don't need to offer two bootloaders. with a small crt0.S hack, the same binary should be able to boot both ways
12:13:53TheSevenwe should offer a "testing" and a "permanent" installation way though
12:14:15S_a_i_n_thow permanent would "permanent" be?
12:14:54S_a_i_n_tWould an iTunes restore be able to restore it?
12:14:59TheSeventhe "testing" one would just install to the firmware partition, with all disadvantages this has, but can be removed by restoring with itunes. the "permanent" way would be what iLoader/emBIOS are currently doing (flashing to the NOR, and needing their own uninstaller).
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12:15:31n1sanyway, i sent a mail to the list about my proposed change to the fuze keymap, so if anyone would like to comment, the ml is the place
12:16:04S_a_i_n_tAha...I have a feeling (maybe unwarranted) that the "permanent/potential bricking" nature of the install discourages people.
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12:16:10TheSeven...which raises the question how we would want to handle the installation/uninstallation of the latter
12:16:14n1sTheSeven: is a bad NOR flash recoverable?
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12:16:32TheSevenn1s: depends on how bad and recoverable with which tools
12:17:03S_a_i_n_t"Can an average user recover without special tools/opening the device"
12:17:14n1sso there's a chance of bricking (as in needing external hardware to restore)
12:17:22S_a_i_n_tThen, I'm not so sure its the way to go.
12:17:39TheSevenspecial *software* tools would catch 99% though
12:18:11S_a_i_n_tA possible way to go, for those that wish to...but, shouldn't be forced. Like iLoader.
12:18:11TheSeventhere's still the risk of having a non-working recovery stub, but as I don't see why we should touch that one ever again, this shouldn't happen
12:18:23n1swe have several players which have such installation procedures already though, and if a known-good bootloader is released the risk should be small, no?
12:18:25TheSevenyes, it's the iloader way I'm talking about
12:18:46TheSeventhere are three ways of failure:
12:18:58S_a_i_n_tThe recoverability (or potential lack of) is what daunts me about iLoader.
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12:19:28TheSeven1. the flashing process itself fails or gets interrupted, so there's just garbage on the flash
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12:19:59TheSeven2. the flashing process itself fails or gets interrupted, but a good recovery stub has already been flashed, just the bootloader is bad
12:20:04TheSevenoh, there are more
12:20:29TheSeven3. a bad bootloader is flashed
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12:20:41TheSeven4. a bad recovery stub (with a correct checksum) is flashed
12:21:00TheSevenall of those can be unbricked, with different amounts of effort
12:21:12n1s3 and 4 should be avoidable if a known good flash image is used, no?
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12:21:48TheSevenyes, but if someone wants to use a newer bootloader, 3 might still happen
12:22:02S_a_i_n_tThe thing I, and I'm sure others like presently is the "No matter what I do, iTunes will fix it" - ability that rockbox has now.
12:22:03TheSevenwe didn't have a single case 4 yet (with iloader)
12:22:04n1sTheSeven: how is the flashing done (where does the installer run)
12:22:43TheSevenS_a_i_n_t: we can still offer that, if you just want to be testing things. if you like rockbox, but the wsods are driving you nuts, go for the permanent way
12:23:02TheSevenn1s: there are several possibilities
12:23:10TheSevenbut let's first explain the ways of unbricking:
12:23:47S_a_i_n_tIf the "testing" way offers the same functionality...why offer the permanent way? Is there some advantage to the permanent, or disadvantage to the temporary ways I'm missing?
12:23:49TheSeven1: the ipod will enter DFU mode. You'll need a special tool (and driver on windows) to upload an apple-signed (or faked by us) binary, which can re-flash it
12:24:18TheSeven2: you need a special tool (and driver on windows) to upload an unsigned binary that can re-flash it
12:24:23TheSeven3: same
12:24:38TheSeven4: you need to open it up, short 2 pins, and it will enter DFU mode, continue as in 1
12:25:13TheSevenS_a_i_n_t: the permanent way kills the wsods and will boot in 3 seconds, compared to 15 for the non-permanent way)
12:25:40TheSevenand you'll get rid of that annoying apple boot logo :P
12:25:49TheSevenwell, it might be just 10
12:25:56S_a_i_n_twhy so long?
12:26:14TheSevenbecause apple's crappy bootloader needs that much time before it even launches the RB bootloader
12:26:22S_a_i_n_tRB bootloader boots in like 2 seconds here.
12:26:35*TheSeven is confused
12:27:12S_a_i_n_t"press menu, two seconds later I'm playing music"
12:27:30TheSevenwith iloader, yes. not with the rb bootloader installed to the firmware partition.
12:27:36*JdGordon wonders if anyone sets the progress/volume bar height with -
12:27:52S_a_i_n_tTheSeven: Not with iLoader, no.
12:28:04S_a_i_n_tThis is the RB bootloader I'm talking about.
12:28:17TheSevenon a 2g?
12:28:19S_a_i_n_t*maybe* 3 seconds...definitely not 4
12:28:34TheSevenwith an apple logo before the bootloader comes up?`
12:28:55TheSevenwhich ipod model is that?
12:29:03S_a_i_n_tnowhere near 10~15 seconds...not even close. do I check that?
12:29:55S_a_i_n_tI have two near me now I can check it with.
12:29:57TheSeveni just mean the flash size
12:30:00S_a_i_n_tMore if I keep digging.
12:30:10S_a_i_n_tone is 2GB, the other 4GB
12:30:21S_a_i_n_tboth boot at the same speed.
12:30:39S_a_i_n_t2 seconds may even be too long of an estimation.
12:30:43TheSevenhm, mine's 8GB, and it takes *several* seconds (don't remember exactly how much), before it even starts to boot rockbox
12:31:10TheSeveni barely manage to reach 2 seconds with iLoader, let alone emBIOS (which took almost 3 seconds when I measured it yesterday)
12:31:10S_a_i_n_tI have no 8GB models to test unfortunately.
12:32:01S_a_i_n_tto be safe, I'm gonna say 2.5~3 seconds and I'm at the nowplaying screen listening to audio.
12:32:13TheSevenfrom the button press that powers it on?
12:32:36TheSevenmine *definitely* hasn't even reached the RB bootloader after 3 seconds
12:32:40S_a_i_n_tSeems the additional 4GB is making a bg difference.
12:32:54TheSevenand rockbox will need another 1-1.2 seconds from the splashscreen to the main menu
12:33:06S_a_i_n_tit takes longer for this build to shut down than start up.
12:33:37TheSeventhis has always been like this (shutdowns take from 2-10 seconds on mine, depending on what I've done before)
12:34:24S_a_i_n_tI'm *really* keen on getting a Nano2G 8GB now...I've looked at a few, but considered that I had enough Nanos :P
12:34:29TheSevenn1s: it basically needs to be flashed by *anything* running on the ipod. This can be a dedicated installer installed via ipodpatcher to the firmware partition (like it's done for iLoader), or rockbox itself
12:35:23thefirstMTheSeven: I have a question for you about the display driver on the nano2g. How hard would it be to implement display Vsync like the OF does?
12:35:55TheSevennot hard at all from the driver side, no idea of the code above that in rockbox
12:36:29S_a_i_n_tJdGordon: JdGordon wonders if anyone sets the progress/volume bar height with - == I have seen this done, yes.
12:36:42TheSevenas rockbox isn't using DMA for screen updates right now, (and I don't think the LCD driver yields), it should already be doing it
12:37:05TheSevenif you're talking about doom, might it be the other way round, that double buffering would be needed?
12:37:21TheSeventhe LCD driver is getting like 100fps
12:37:29thefirstMYeah, thats what Saratoga said too. But there is still tearing in just about everything.
12:37:50TheSevenideally doom should call the lcd update function every time it has fully drawn a frame
12:38:02TheSevenif there's still tearing, this is an internal problem of the LCD
12:38:15S_a_i_n_tthefirstM: fwiw, I can't see any tearing in the ocilloscope as you mentioned...what codec are you playing to achieve that "tearing"?
12:38:21TheSeven(writing to the LCDs internal framebuffer and scanning the actual pixels not being in sync)
12:39:08thefirstMI wasn't playing anything. I just started up the plugin and watched as the red line had tearing.
12:39:45*TheSeven just checked chopper and noticed some lcd-internal tearing
12:39:53TheSevenyou can see how it dithers the colors :)
12:39:59thefirstMYep. That one too.
12:40:19thefirstMThe OF doesn't seem to tear on anything, so there must be some way to sync it.
12:41:05S_a_i_n_tthe OF probably doesn't push the hardware at all ;)
12:41:35thefirstMYeah, there isn't anything in it that actually needs 192mHz of ARM...
12:41:44TheSeventhere is: APE :P
12:41:59S_a_i_n_t"parachutes"...or, whatever it is called.
12:42:16TheSevenlook at the LCD datasheets if there's a way to tell from its registers where it's currently scanning
12:42:40thefirstMOK. Where can I find those?
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12:43:04TheSevenS_a_i_n_t: can you verify that you *don't* have any tearing?
12:43:11TheSevenyou had type2 lcds, right?
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12:43:22thefirstMI have the LDS176.
12:43:34S_a_i_n_tTheSeven: Yes, I have type 2LCD
12:43:40TheSevenS_a_i_n_t has the ILI9320
12:43:45*TheSeven has the LDS176
12:44:02S_a_i_n_tIf I look *really* hard, I can see a slight tearing in oscilloscope...1px difference.
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12:44:25thefirstMThanks! I will have a look.
12:44:59TheSevenS_a_i_n_t: I have 3 of those 1-pixel differences in that line spaced evenly and wandering towards the top of the screen :)
12:45:03S_a_i_n_tTheSeven: I also have 3 or 4 TheSeven has the LDS176's
12:45:22S_a_i_n_teeek...c/p fail
12:45:33S_a_i_n_tI also have LDS176's
12:46:45JdGordonwell vertical progressbars was simple to add :p
12:46:53***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:47:15S_a_i_n_tTheSeven: Interestingly, those 1px diffs are stationary along their horizontal line...they are not "wandering" to the top of the screen as you pt it.
12:47:20TheSeventhefirstM: pdf page 36 looks interesting
12:48:09TheSevennow we'd just need to figure out what that thing is connected to
12:49:37thefirstMTheSeven: That is exactly what I want to do. Do you know how to find that out?
12:50:27TheSevenswitch it on from the LCD side and observe the GPIOs and EXTINT lines
12:51:02thefirstMOK, I can look at the GPIOs in debug, but how about the EXTINT lines?
12:52:11TheSevenfirst we'll need to figure out how to clear their ints in the ICU (hopefully by just acking them in the SRCPND register). then enable those ints, make them print something and ack.
12:52:48thefirstMthefirstM is lost. Sorry, I don't know much about the hardware's nitty-gritty stuff.
12:54:50JdGordonwhat is eaiser to read? %pv(0,0,-,-,-,fill:invert, type:slider, foo: bar) or %pv(0,0,-,-,-,invert, slider, foobar) (the order of these last items doesnt matter and any could be missing)
12:55:36JdGordonit could also be "invert: true" or something
12:56:02*JdGordon guesses the bars could get maybe uo to half a dozen of these params
12:56:53*S_a_i_n_t orefers %pv(0,0,-,-,-,invert, slider, foobar)
12:57:04S_a_i_n_tseems more consistent with current code
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12:59:51S_a_i_n_tJdGordon: ^
12:59:56JdGordonyes, but I wonder how understandable it will be once the actual options are done...
12:59:57JdGordonI guess only one way to find out :p
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13:00:36thefirstMTheSeven: I think I know what you are talking about with the register then, but I can't find anything about that register in the LCD datasheet.
13:01:13S_a_i_n_tJdGordon: I just find the second option to be more inline with the current code/params
13:02:37*JdGordon 's test wps is volumebar filled :p
13:02:39JdGordon3 so far
13:03:12S_a_i_n_tdon't forget to pastebin ;)
13:03:39JdGordonignore the number, the 3 bars are all showing the same volume
13:05:05*TheSeven wonders why his lcd thinks it's frozen when powering up after not being shut down cleanly
13:05:07S_a_i_n_tis black or grey "filled"?
13:05:17JdGordonblack is filled
13:05:25JdGordonI put the invert on the wrong one so they fill inwards
13:05:40S_a_i_n_taha, that maes more sense to me now.
13:05:49S_a_i_n_t*makes, even
13:05:55JdGordonvert/horiz is automatically chosen from the dimensions.. should I keep that or use a param?
13:06:05JdGordonthe -10 is not the volume :)
13:07:16S_a_i_n_tJdGordon: I's say add a param, the odds are that someone won;t want an incredibly thin, tall horizontal bar...but, themers have ways of keeping you on your toes.
13:07:57S_a_i_n_tchoice via dimension should be sufficient...if the dimensions are extremes
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13:08:16JdGordonalso unsure about how to do the slider type.. I need to get the image label to use (dont really like the idea of another filename here)
13:08:48JdGordonthen it could be centered on the spot, or drawn after the spot (so the image starts at the spot)
13:08:55thefirstMTheSeven: Does EXTINT have something to do with the line "default_interrupt(EINT_VBUS);" in system-s5l8700.c?
13:09:03JdGordon+ drawn ontop of an empty bmp/bar or a filling one
13:09:27TheSevenprobably one of the other EINTs though
13:11:46JdGordonif a param is slider then the next param is the image label, "nofill" will only draw the slider maybe?
13:12:03S_a_i_n_tJdGordon: perhaps leave the slider until the rest is figured out/well tested.
13:12:18S_a_i_n_tI'd see vert bars/slider as two commits anyway
13:12:25JdGordonwhat rest?
13:12:43S_a_i_n_tvertical bars/fill type
13:12:57JdGordonim done with that... unless there are more fill types?
13:13:20S_a_i_n_tyou're done with it, but, it's not exactly had a wealth of testing.
13:13:37JdGordonwhat makes you tihnk it needs it?
13:13:46S_a_i_n_tpast experience
13:14:17JdGordonbackward bmp slider needs work :
13:17:36*JdGordon fails at transparent_bitmap_part()
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13:21:35thefirstMTheSeven: Where is SRCPND defined?
13:21:44TheSevenin s5l8700.h
13:25:42thefirstMThis is way over my head. I give up.
13:25:58thefirstMTheSeven: I'll buy you a beer if you can figure this out :)
13:27:03n1sTheSeven: if the iflasher runs from rockbox it is a very similar install method as used when flashing the old archos and i see no reason not to give the users the option of doing this
13:27:32n1siflasher = installer/flasher apparently
13:28:24n1salso about the tearing, could it be that a lcd_ipdate returns before the lcd has finished updating so that another lcd update may start before the previous one has actually completed?
13:28:35TheSevennot on the nano2g
13:29:05TheSeventhis seems to be an lcd-internal syncing problem
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13:32:09pixelmaI'd prefer if recently introduced bugs would be fixed before implementing new features :\
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13:34:03thefirstMpixelma: Are you talking about the theming or about the nano2g LCD Vsync?
13:34:44pixelmatheme engine
13:36:06JdGordonthen go fix them
13:36:37pixelmaI didn't add them and don't plan to add something
13:36:51*JdGordon just cant imagine why he has no motivation to fix bugs that doesnt affect him
13:36:52pixelmas/something/a new feature
13:37:26pixelmaJdGordon: you caused the bugs, learn to take responsibility even if it is "no fun"
13:38:28pixelmawhat do you want to tell me with that?
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13:48:11pixelmanothing it seems
13:53:37TheSeven"5.13 UNCONTROLLED POWER OFF
13:53:37TheSevenThe uncontrolled power off means a situation when e.g. there is removed a battery without the controlled power off
13:53:38TheSevensequence. There will not be any damages for the display module or the display module will not cause any damages for the
13:53:38DBUGEnqueued KICK TheSeven
13:53:38TheSevenhost or lines of the interface. At an uncontrolled power off the display will go blank and there will not be any visible effects
13:53:38TheSevenon the display."
13:53:47TheSeventhat doesn't seem to hold true for the one I got :)
13:54:45thefirstMTheSeven: Did I break your ipod??
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13:55:20thefirstMOK, good. I thought maybe you were playing around with the display because of what I asked and broke it.
13:55:31TheSevenbut if i power that one down without clearing it first, the display contents remain partially on the lcd for several minutes until they slowly fade away (which won't do the lcd any good)
13:55:44thefirstMMine is the same way.
13:55:56TheSevenmy display is quite broken anyway, but not because of playing around with it
13:56:12TheSevenlooks like the framebuffer RAM of the controller has like 20 bad cells
13:56:41JdGordonanyone want to test this progressbar patch?
13:57:37thefirstMTheSeven: I was looking at the LCD driver again, and I think that once I know how to read the TE signal, I can probably vsync the display, at least for lcd_update() and lcd_update_rect().
13:57:54thefirstMI still don't understand lcd_blit_yuv()
13:58:41thefirstMFinding out how to read it is still being a problem, since I am not familiar with the architecture.
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15:50:47JdGordonbieber: the parser doesnt strip whitespace at the end of text params?!
15:51:04JdGordonthat is slightly annoying, can it be fixed please?
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16:13:39CIA-9New commit by 03jdgordon (r27821): A bunch of new features for the bar type tags (%pb, %pv, %bl, etc): ...
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16:15:55CIA-9r27821 build result: All green
16:17:16JdGordonbieber: sorry :) ^
16:23:17JdGordonmc2739: wishful thinking mostly... is FS #11349 still an issue?
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16:35:36CIA-9New commit by 03jdgordon (r27822): fix FS #11519 - clock tags wernt updating like they should
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16:37:24CIA-9r27822 build result: All green
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16:44:22kugelS_a_i_n_t: hey, thanks. some icons seem wrong though
16:47:01***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:51:59TheSeventhefirstM: I had a quick look into this, and none of the external ints on the 2g seems to be sued
16:53:39TheSevenand apparently the tearing effect line setting in the lcd controller has an effect on GPIO ports 8 and 10, bit 0 (on both)
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17:10:43TheSeventhefirstM: while (vsync && !(PDAT(8) & 1)); does the trick, but wastes significant amounts of cpu time
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17:12:06TheSevenand you'll have to do a s5l_lcd_write_cmd(0x35); s5l_lcd_write_data(0); on initialization
17:14:40TheSevenI used this for testing:
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17:26:09amiconnMost targets can't sync to lcd anyway. Even if the controller does have a status register (some don't), it's often not possible to read it
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17:31:40thefirstMTheSeven: Thank you! I am guessing that the "s5l_lcd_write_cmd(0x35); s5l_lcd_write_data(0);" part turns on the TE line? Would turning this on without using it cause any harm?
17:32:04TheSevenno, you can just add that
17:32:13kugelgevaerts: I'm trying to think of a title for the application porting wiki page
17:32:26TheSevenmight reduce you battery life by a second :P
17:32:31gevaertskugel: ah, right. The hardest problem of all!
17:33:29thefirstMTheSeven: I am not really concerned about that. If I was, I wouldn't have overclocked the s5l8701 to 250mHz O.o
17:36:48gevaertsthefirstM: I have to ask. Why?
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17:37:13thefirstMBecause I can. And to make doom run faster.
17:38:28kugelgevaerts: :(
17:39:14gevaertsthefirstM: you can also underclock it, so "because I can" is not a reason!
17:39:38Beta2KIsn't the Gigabeat the only target that comes even close to that fast?
17:39:51thefirstMThe Nano2G runs at 192mHz by default.
17:40:34Beta2KHrm, something to compete with :)
17:40:42gevaertsBeta2K: Gigabeat F runs at 300MHz, and the AMS Sansas run at 250MHz
17:41:40gevaertsAnd the Gigabeat S runs at 528MHz, but I'm not sure how fast we run it these days. It used to be at half speed
17:41:54Beta2Kgevaerts: Been away from RB too long, at last check most other targets were PP based and all topped out about 180Mhz
17:42:03gevaertsPP runs at 80MHz
17:42:36gevaertsThey're not the same core though, so you can't directly compare those numbers
17:43:18Beta2Kthe PP's are dual cored in some fassion aren't they?
17:43:49kugelgevaerts: pages can be renamed right?
17:43:57gevaertsI think so
17:44:04gevaertsBeta2K: they're dual core, yes
17:44:18thefirstMThat's correct.
17:44:29thefirstMWhat? nevermind. Sorry.
17:52:15amiconngevaerts: The beast adapts automatically these days
17:52:40gevaertsAh, ok. I knew there had been changes...
17:52:59amiconnMax. clock is 528MHz
17:53:29thefirstMI have got to get myself one of those Beasts someday...
18:03:15thefirstMTheSeven: I inserted those statements into the initialization function for the Type 1/7 LCD, but the "View I/O Ports" page doesn't list GPIO 8 and GPIO 10 reads 0xFE all the time. Is it just changing too fast for the display to be updated?
18:03:47 Quit soap (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
18:05:33thefirstMAlso, GPIO 10 goes from 0xFE to 0xF8 if I flip the Hold switch.
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18:07:40thefirstMNevermind, If I watch for long enough it goes to 0xFF for very short amounts of time. I think I have it now. Thanks!
18:08:05will_There is a broken link (to a zip file) on the CodecPerformanceComparison page:
18:08:08will_The link is in the line with this text: Download the encoder pack here which contains CLI encoders
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18:47:04***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:49:07thefirstMTheSeven: Where is the PDAT() macro defined at? I can't find it anywhere.
18:49:24TheSevenit's probably just PDAT8 in rockbox
18:49:35thefirstMI tried that too.
18:49:36TheSevenshould also be in s5l8700.h
18:49:51TheSevenif not, add it similar to the oter ones
18:50:08TheSevenyou could also just try PDAT10
18:51:10thefirstMPDAT10 works, thanks. I guess PDAT8 just isn't defined.
18:54:04thefirstMIt works!!!! Thank you so much, TheSeven! You are great :)
18:55:23TheSevennow implement LCD DMA, yield while waiting for the sync, and make the games use double buffering :9
18:56:00thefirstMI will work on it. I can program in C pretty well, but I don't have much experience on bare hardware like this.
18:56:51mc2739JdGordon: (logs) behavior described in FS #11349 is still occurring with r27822
19:02:46S_a_i_n_tkugel: Let me know what icons you would like changed, and, to what.
19:03:43S_a_i_n_tThe curren't Tango! iconset doesn't accurately reflect the one that the cabbie iconset is built on, and some of the ones in the cabbie iconset are just plain wrong considering their usage.
19:03:57thefirstMTheSeven: Do you mind if I open up a patch for Nano2G vsync in FlySpray? I will give you credit, of course.
19:04:03S_a_i_n_tie. "questionmark" is a lighbulb...I mean, what?!?
19:04:13S_a_i_n_tkugel: ^
19:04:36S_a_i_n_tIn my iconset it's a questionamrk at least :P
19:06:31TheSeventhefirstM: go ahead :)
19:06:52thefirstMWill do.
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19:09:37kugelS_a_i_n_t: whether they're wrong or not doesn't really matter now, it should be compatible with the existing iconset. Fixing the existing iconset is a separate topic
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19:16:03S_a_i_n_tkugel; What needs changing?
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19:25:15kugelS_a_i_n_t: I think it's pretty obvious if you directly compare the icons in svn with your image
19:25:40S_a_i_n_tWell, isn't...and its perception based obviously.
19:25:56S_a_i_n_tsvn icons make no sense for a lot of them.
19:26:46S_a_i_n_tIts a lot better to say "I would like to chage X, Y and Z" than say "You figure it out"
19:26:48kugelyea, possibly. let me try to describe/explain then
19:29:03S_a_i_n_tA lot of the icons that may look "wrong" comparing the two, you'll probably never see...there a quite a few unused icons (from my experience) in the svn set these days.
19:31:05kugellet me start with those which I think are fine: 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 8, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 17, 18, 19, 21, 25, 26, 30, 31
19:31:32S_a_i_n_t(not too shabby) ;)
19:33:02kugelhave you actually tried the icons? (just reminding you you can use the sdl app for that)
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19:33:44S_a_i_n_tbuilding it now, but I'm building a bunch of things in a long it may take a while.
19:34:02kugel4 is used for "resume playback" IIRC, the while and narrow arrow doesn't really fit there
19:34:22S_a_i_n_t4 is "cursor"
19:34:44S_a_i_n_tI can send you a list of what does what if you want...
19:34:55kugelyea sure
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19:36:59S_a_i_n_tI'm confused by 9 being wrong...same in SVN.
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19:39:32S_a_i_n_t11 is the same in SVN also.
19:39:55S_a_i_n_tas is 22/23
19:40:30S_a_i_n_ticon assignment list is here:
19:41:57S_a_i_n_tIf you look at the icon, compared to the meaning...some are....odd, in svn.
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19:44:09S_a_i_n_tclone4crw: (from your discussion in #rockbox-community)
19:44:11S_a_i_n_t[05:28] <clone4crw> So its going to take someone manually updating all the themes for the next stable release?
19:44:18S_a_i_n_tWhy would this need to happen?
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19:44:51S_a_i_n_tthe themes (on the themesite) already work with the current build, and as such, with the next release.
19:45:32S_a_i_n_tThe release build 3.6 even has its own dedicated themesite until the next release.
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19:46:49soapkugel, the change from long play to power should be in the ML logs.
19:47:05soapIIRC Llorean was a strong proponent of the change.
19:47:12kugelI remember, yes :)
19:49:32S_a_i_n_tkugel: leave a not here with icon numbers you think should definitely be changed, and, if possible...what you would prefer them changed to and I shall retrieve it from the logs when I wake up.
19:49:43S_a_i_n_t~6am here, with a big day ahead ;)
19:50:07kugelS_a_i_n_t: ok, might take a while, I need to finish up a doc for gsoc first
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20:17:36funmansaratoga: any idea what we should do if we disable reboot on USB plug for the Sansa AMSv2 ? I was thinking of displaying a message asking to reboot manually
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20:38:31wodzS_a_i_n_t: ping
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20:43:10wodzMay I ask to review FS #11534? Currently in recscreen changing volume as well as gain is done in 0.1dB steps. Many (most?) codecs use different steps internally and this steps are defined in audiohw_settings[]. Propsed patch uses this info and inc/dec volume/gain by 'native' step.
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21:18:17soapWhat is the advantage of going in native steps vs consistent steps?
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21:31:22balintxwill rockbox on android support 320x240 resolutions?
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21:33:17kugelwhich device has that?
21:33:58kugelbalintx: the android port works for any resolution. the only problem is the default theme which needs to be adapted to each
21:34:22balintxvodafone 845 android2.1
21:34:56kugelthat looks like 240x320 though
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21:35:31fdinelwoops, sorry :shy:
21:35:55balintxI sadly saw that there is not a build for it :/
21:36:16balintxbut maybe later
21:37:10kugel240x320 is not uncommon, I'm sure there will be a built for it
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21:38:15balintxRB team work is great
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22:37:18pat61Hey, I have a question/problem.
22:39:14gevaertsIt's easier to answer those if we know what they are :)
22:39:32pat61I was wondering if someone was here before I asked lol
22:40:34balintx"# Don't "ask to ask". If you come in and ask your question, people will see it and help if they can. If you come in and ask, "can I ask a question?", nobody will want to bother asking what the real question is and you may have just lost important assistance. The channel is open to questions and you do not need to get permission to ask them. This is also intended to cover the general "Does anyone...; Is anyone...; etc" questions. "
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22:42:40Pat61_sorry, internet went down
22:42:47Pat61_did you get the question?
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22:44:33Pat61_When I start to install rockbox and I pick where my sansa is located it doesnt show up, because it is under "Portable Device".
22:44:49Pat61_Not a drive like c:/ or f:/ etc...
22:45:23balintxswitch usb mode
22:45:57gevaertsThere's a setting on the sansa somewhere that you have to set properly (to MSC). The rockbox manual should tell you which one exactly
22:46:10balintxmsc mode
22:46:18gevaertsbalintx: it
22:46:26gevaertsis it named the same on *all* sansas?
22:46:43balintxin my Fuze there is MTP or MSC mode
22:47:03balintxMTP is named MTP everywhere. I think MSC too
22:47:07***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:47:27gevaertsIIRC at least on the e200R they're called somthing else
22:47:37Pat61_I got it
22:47:39Pat61_thanks guys
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23:06:05Pat61_How would one go about changing the main background of rockbox with the menues and such, to another picture?
23:08:06perfectdrughey kugel, I just spotted a typo in your PortingApplication wiki page, but it tells me you are editing this page right now so I let you know directly: the first sentence after Requirements lags a word, I think you are missing a "been" so it should be "Because Rockbox has always _been_ an OS[...]"
23:09:35kugelyes, I'm not finished yet
23:09:57kugelI just save from time to time, because it's such a big document and my pc already crashed once :/
23:10:48perfectdrugno problem, thanks for your work it was really exciting to see your progress during gsoc:)
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23:28:04kugelperfectdrug: it was really exciting for me too :)
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23:51:06kugelso, I think I have written down all my knowledge to PortingApplication. It would be nice if someone could read over it and tell me if it lacks information
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23:52:31thefirstMTheSeven: I have been working more on nano2g vsync. I tried yield()ing in the while loop waiting for sync, but that just made the GUI very laggy while music was playing without having any other noticeable effect. Is there some other method of yielding that I don't know about?
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