#rockbox 2010-08-27

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#rockbox log for 2010-08-27

00:01:37		Quit Jerom (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
00:06:02		Join _s1gma [0] (~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131)
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00:08:43	*	pixelma always forgets the objdump syntax :/
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00:10:40	Bagder	me too
00:11:18	Bagder	arm-elf-objdump -D −−target binary -marm [file]
00:13:44		Quit bertrik (Quit: :tiuQ)
00:13:55	kaiscene	could someone explain what the glyph memory allocation does in regards to http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/11567 . is it a lookup cache? setting it to <20 causes display corruption in the WPS, == 1 causes simulator to lock up on skin load, >20 decreases skin memory usage hugely with no visible side effects.
00:15:41		Join b0hoon [0] (~quassel@79.139.7.10)
00:15:54	Torne	you would generally use more than 20 characters of a font
00:16:23	Torne	it just sets how much memory the font gets
00:16:26	pixelma	kaiscene: are you sure the display corruption comes from setting something there? As it has been noticed before that was implemented
00:16:34	Torne	if you set it to 100 it gets enough memory for 100 different characters
00:16:47	pixelma	Torne: 20 could be enough if you are using one font only for digits
00:17:02	kaiscene	pixelma: i'm experimenting with the new %Fl() parameter to change "glyph memory allocation", so it's due to changing that value
00:17:46		Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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00:18:13	pixelma	I see display corruption to different amounts in different themes which is also a bit different every time I reload the theme
00:18:28	pixelma	which player do you have by the way?
00:18:33	kaiscene	clip+
00:18:55	kaiscene	is this "glyph memory allocation" used to display only the current refresh/frame ?
00:19:15	kaiscene	so it gets reloaded with whatever text needs to be displayed per frame/refresh?
00:19:18	pixelma	hmm, seems to show often on monochrome targets
00:20:24	pixelma	kaiscene: no, it's how many characters of a font get stored in the "glyph cache" for quicker access to them. This speeds up WPS loading and drawing
00:20:30	Torne	kaiscene: whenever it needs to draw a character, if it's not in the cache it will ahve to read it from the font file on disk, kicking out the least recently used one
00:20:55	kaiscene	so this is a only a cache?
00:21:21	Torne	sort of.
00:21:24	b0hoon	Torne: hi. quick report - ipod 5.5 32MB: gives me 32MB :)
00:21:30	Torne	b0hoon: awesome
00:21:48	Torne	kaiscene: if you make it too small then whenever the text on the wps changes it will have to access the hard disk
00:22:06	kaiscene	i see. thank you both for explaining
00:22:13	Torne	kaiscene: e.g. if you set it to 100, and then a track starts which has a name in a foreign language which uses accents or other uncommon characters
00:22:31	Torne	then it'll probably not have those uncommon characters saved in the cache of 100 glyphs
00:22:46	Torne	it will have to kick something else out to make room, which might then cause the next track name to need to read from disk again, and so on :)
00:23:00	Torne	i'm not surprised that setting it to very small numbers makes bad stuff happen
00:23:02	Torne	:)
00:23:16	pixelma	Torne: really?
00:23:39		Quit froggyman (Quit: CGI:IRC)
00:24:20	Torne	pixelma: not sure if it accounts for the overhead right..
00:24:25	Torne	i'm looking at it atm
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00:26:57	kaiscene	would you estimate a vast majority of song titles aren't usually more than 64 unique characters? so if I was using a font solely to display the song title, a glyph cache size of 64 would be satisfactory for most cases
00:27:30	Torne	kaiscene: er, ideally you want it to be enough to have all the characters that will ever be used
00:27:40	Torne	i.e. the total umber of unique characters in the user's mp3 collection ;)
00:27:51	kaiscene	yea. but i'm really hurting to decrease skin ram usage
00:28:01	Torne	you don't want it to be just barely enough for one song, because that means it will have to access the disk every time a new song starts..
00:28:18	kaiscene	i see
00:28:29	Torne	for a general purpose font you almost certainly want it to be at least 256
00:28:41	Torne	only fonts used for one special purpose should really be using a tiny number
00:28:51	Torne	pixelma: it looks like it just multiplies the number of glyphs by the size of a font cache entry
00:29:06	Torne	pixelma: this doesn't allow for the fact that the buffer also has to contain the font header, the cache header and the offset table...
00:29:19		Quit ender` (Quit: Liar, n: one who tells an unpleasant truth.)
00:29:20	Torne	pixelma: so if you set it to a really small number it might not even be big enough to iitialise the font cache correctly
00:29:31	Torne	pixelma: i could be wrong..
00:29:35	soap	Torne, why have Rockbox detect iPod memory size and not Rockbox utility?
00:29:42	pixelma	Torne: one of the arguments for it were "set it to small" for fonts you only for numbers, time, date, frequency and such
00:29:45	Torne	soap: didn't we already do that?
00:29:46	Torne	pixelma: yes
00:29:52	Torne	pixelma: but i don't think that actually works, is my point
00:30:05	pixelma	aha
00:30:09	Torne	if you set it to 10, then the resulting buffer is probably only big enough for less characters than that
00:30:09	soap	Torne, THAT I don't know. I haven't paid enough attention to RBUtil it appears.
00:30:18	Torne	if you set it to 1 then it might be totally broken and cause crashes.
00:30:33	Torne	pixelma: because it doesn't allow for the per-font overhead, only the per-glyph overhead
00:30:44	Torne	unless it does in some way that i'm not seeing
00:31:27	Torne	soap: anyway, whether rbutil does or not.. it doesn't seem like a bad sanity check
00:31:41	Torne	soap: the code to detect is 6 instructions, though obviously you need a tiny bit to actually act on the outcome too ;)
00:31:54	Torne	soap: then it works for manual installs/etc as well...
00:31:54	pixelma	someone should tell fredb if he comes here (or file a bug report). I still think that the screen corruption was already "in" before
00:32:11	kaiscene	you think accessing the flash memory on the Clip+ to load glyphs after every song change would decrease battery life substainially?
00:32:26	Torne	kaiscene: unlikely
00:33:18	Torne	anyway if you are really desperate to save the ram i'd use the biggest number you can without running out of skin buffer ;)
00:33:25	Torne	but try for 100-200 at least.. 64 is miniscule
00:33:42	Torne	just a-z, A-Z and 0-9 is alrady 62 characters, remember
00:33:48	Torne	add . : - ( ) etc
00:34:07	Torne	so even people with absolutely no unusual characters are going to frequently use 80+ chars
00:34:13	kaiscene	it would be nice to dynamically size the cache up to the parameter specified in %Fl
00:34:34	Torne	how would that work?
00:34:57	Torne	if there's only one skin font then it could use the whole rest of the skin buffer for it, i guess
00:35:05	Torne	but if there's more than one, how can it know what the best use of the memory is?
00:35:07	kaiscene	if the glyph to display isn't in the cache and the cache size is not > param in %Fl, increase cache size by 1 and insert glyph
00:35:32	Torne	that would require a substantially more complicated cache impleentation
00:35:41	Torne	the current one only works if the cache memory is all in one block
00:35:44	kaiscene	ya :). that's why i said "it would be nice"
00:35:58	Torne	and it would alost certainly use more memory..
00:36:04	Torne	so you'd probably find you were worse off :)
00:36:08	kaiscene	oh lol
00:36:25	Torne	knowing it's all in one block is a space optimisation as well as making it simpler
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00:36:30	Torne	you don't need to keep track of certain things
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01:07:53	kugel	pixelma: for .o and .elf objdump -D <file> is enough (-d if you only want the code, not data as well). for .bin/.codec/.rock you need −−binary -m arm as well
01:09:32	pixelma	kugel: thanks :) though I already found something in some old logs here and also where the crash after leaving early USB exactly happens
01:09:35	kugel	it's most useful to use objdump with the .elf files. they are completely linked, i.e. the fault addresses match with whatever the data abort (etc.) gives, while they still have useful debugging stuff in them (most importantly function, global variable names)
01:11:44	pixelma	in "lib/libskin_parser.a(skin_parser.o)", more exactly "9035954: 8b fb bf 903594e <_skin_parse+0x152>"
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01:13:57	*	kugel doesn't know what bf should mean
01:14:48	kugel	I could help if you paste +- lines of the area when built for an arm target :)
01:14:56	kugel	+- 100*
01:15:35	pixelma	it's sh (on Ondio build)
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01:17:13	pixelma	I could pastebin the whole function if you want
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01:18:13	pixelma	_skin_parse that is
01:18:52	pixelma	250 lines
01:20:07	CIA-81	New commit by 03kugel (r27900): Introduce a small api for loading code (codecs,plugins) from disk/memory. ...
01:20:14		Quit _s1gma (Remote host closed the connection)
01:20:15	kugel	sh doesn't tell me much :( but we could try
01:20:41	kugel	does the error only happen on sh?
01:22:08	CIA-81	r27900 build result: 1489 errors, 0 warnings (kugel committed)
01:22:57	pixelma	I only know of the Archoses having early USB (connect USB from an off state and get the USB screen - for a while the statusbar is missing there and you get a crash if you disconnect and it would boot the "rest" if Rockbox)
01:23:05	pixelma	http://pastebin.com/rduWyvz0
01:24:16	pixelma	or I only know of these having it for sure, I thought some other targets have early USB too but don't remember which and am really not so sure anymore)
01:26:30	kugel	I assume it says IllInst (or something like that) or 0x9035954?
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01:29:34	pixelma	"I09: CPUAdrEr at 09035954"
01:31:03	kugel	strange. I doubt I can really help you with that (not tonight anyway), I guess it needs an sh expert
01:31:40	kugel	maybe the same expert can tell me why that commit causes errors on sh
01:32:30	pixelma	http://www.rockbox.org/irc/log-20100823#14:53:13 might give a hint
01:36:17	scorche	kugel: (picking on you since you seem to be the only one here at the moment) Have you looked into submitting your GSoC code yet?
01:44:46	kugel	scorche: no, submitting code isn't "ready" already is it?
01:45:00	scorche	it is afaict
01:45:03	kugel	IIRC they open the svn repos next monday
01:45:16	scorche	i guess so, but it seems set up to me
01:45:35	scorche	i guess they wanted to give the admins time to set up the project before telling students they can upload
01:45:47	kugel	anyway, the code sumbitting deadline is 10th sept or so, so I don't worry about that at the moment
01:46:16	kugel	but I'll do it (at least) a few days before, I think they changed something this year
01:46:19	scorche	might as well get it out of the way as soon as you can, but i do see that they havent told the students it is ready yet
01:46:49	scorche	yes....there is this now: http://code.google.com/p/google-summer-of-code-2010-rockbox/
01:48:08	kugel	I also need to have a quick talk with carol, I think they assume I have a set of patches which were committed by the mentor, but this isn't really the case with rockbox
01:48:26	scorche	i dont think they assume that
01:48:49	kugel	it sounded to me like that but I may be wrong
01:49:19	scorche	it sounded to me like they expect the student of having some way of generating diffs/code written ;)
01:52:59	kugel	that for sure :)
01:54:04	kugel	but I think the noise introced by moving files is bigger than the actual code I've written, but that hopefully doesn't matter
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01:59:38	JdGordon\|	just as an FYI I'll be taking a break for a while, disabling flyspray emails and prob not spending muh time in here...
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02:02:10	kugel	and who fixes the skin engine bugs in that time? I don't think we have any other guy familiar with that area since the rewrite
02:02:48	*	kugel doesn't fucking understand the build errors
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02:05:17	DerPapst	sim doesn't compile in cygwin anymore too
02:05:18	DerPapst	;)
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02:16:29	CIA-81	New commit by 03kugel (r27901): Revert "Introduce a small api for loading code (codecs,plugins) from disk/memory." ...
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02:16:56	kugel	hopefully someone can help me with that
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02:18:28	CIA-81	r27901 build result: All green
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02:29:52	CIA-81	New commit by 03kugel (r27902): 2nd try: Introduce a small api for loading code (codecs,plugins) from disk/memory. ...
02:31:35	CIA-81	r27902 build result: All green
02:44:21	kugel	jhMikeS: ping
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02:59:40	kugel	I think I need to rename sleep()
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03:38:14	kaiscene	clip can't get into the playlist menu since http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi?view=rev;revision=27897 . as soon as the down button is pressed it goes immediately to the pitchscreen - no opportunity for a long-press of the down button to show the playlist
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10:50:45	amiconn	pixelma: The corruption I've seen on Clip+ affected the whole top line, not just top left corner
10:51:10	amiconn	Regarding early usb - all targets have that
10:51:22	amiconn	It's just difficult to enter if there is also bootloader usb
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11:10:20	pixelma	amiconn: screen corruption varies for me - most of the time it's just the top left corner and in case of cabbiev2 on the Ondio then the progressbar is a bit misplaced too, I know that on the Clip's cabbiev2 the top bar also is in the top row. Screen corruption can be way worse, see the imagebin link
11:10:46	pixelma	and sometimes there is no visible screen corruption
11:11:54	pixelma	...I meant the progressbar is in the top row on the Clip's cabbiev2
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11:21:08	wodz	\o/
11:21:43	wodz	I finally pinpointed what causes problems with USB transfers to MPIO
11:23:07	wodz	It's buggy genesys usb-ata bridge + MPIO overriding usb descriptors for device so genesys specific workarounds arent picked by kernel driver
11:29:21	wodz	hmm the problem with transfers to my mini1G remained :/ So this are two separate issues, shit
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12:33:13	CIA-81	New commit by 03kugel (r27903): Make getcwd match the posix variant, make get_current_file() behave similar to it and add a few sanity checks.
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12:35:31	CIA-81	r27903 build result: All green
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12:52:24	kugel	gah this bloody annoying mingw32 thing
12:53:03	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:54:31	freddyb	Regarding the glyph memory allocation earlier between Torne and pixelma: the font structure is already allocated in font_table[] in skin_fonts.c. Loading a font with room for one glyph in a VP that only shows one glyph is ok.
12:55:03	Torne	not the font structure.. the things font.c loads into the buffer
12:55:05	Torne	like the offset table
12:59:03	kugel	can I slap mingw guys for making the size parameter an int on their library?
12:59:08	Torne	pf->buffer_size is glyphs * get_glyph_size(), that's the buffer pointed to by pf->buffer and pf->buffer_start when it calls font_load
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13:02:05	Torne	hmm
13:03:29	Torne	Okay, i'm not quite right but i still think it can break if it's very small
13:03:42	Torne	it doesn't use any extra space after it's loaded the font
13:04:12	Torne	but if you did glyphs == 1 and get_glyph_size() was small because the font wasn't very big, then the resulting buffer might be less than FONT_HEADER_SIZE
13:04:27	Torne	the loading process assumes the buffer is at least that big, maybe more? not entirely sure
13:04:32	Torne	and your code doesn't guarantee that
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13:12:12	Torne	i'm not entirely sure :)
13:12:16	Torne	s'complicated
13:12:24	Torne	but it doens't look right, still
13:20:21	freddyb	struct font has a struct font_cache included, not just a pointer. get_glyph_size() pads for the cache overhead
13:20:45	Torne	yes, i realised that just now
13:20:55	Torne	but it still uses the buffer itself as temporary space to load the header during font loading
13:21:06	Torne	and doesn't actually check that it's big enough
13:21:18	Torne	so if the buffer is smaller than FONT_HEADER_SIZE i think ti will just overwrite whatever is after that in the skin buffer?
13:21:27	Torne	see the call to read() in internal_font_load
13:25:53	freddyb	get_glyph_size() has its own struct font (not a pointer)
13:26:16	Torne	nothing to do with that
13:40:56	pixelma	freddyb: welcome and thanks for reading logs :)
13:42:41	mc2739	kugel: w32 cross-compiled sims are broken again by r27902
13:43:04	kugel	mc2739: yes I know :)
13:43:18	freddyb	I see now. I'm kinda thinking about converting the header code to just read directly from the font file...
13:43:34	freddyb	pixelma: Thanks.
13:43:46		Quit TheSeven (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
13:52:28	kugel	freddyb: hey, welcome from me too \0/
13:53:34	*	gevaerts joins in the welcome celebrations
13:54:12	freddyb	Thanks, everyone. When do they pass out the paychecks?
13:54:28	Torne	payment is in beer at devcon
13:54:41	freddyb	Good to know.
13:54:42	*	n1s joins the welcomming too :)
13:55:04	*	pamaury too
13:55:38	freddyb	Thanks again.
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13:58:44	n1s	am i missing something or is FS #11573 a patch for a theme on the theme site?
13:58:59	Torne	yes, it is
13:59:01	n1s	(is this the way we want fixes for those)?
13:59:06	Torne	probably not
13:59:52	n1s	i know next to nothing about the themes so i'll leave it for someone else then
14:00
14:00:40	Torne	yeah that was what i did
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14:38:28	CIA-81	New commit by 03kugel (r27904): Use system headers a bit more: use host's fcntl.h for O_RDONLY etc. ...
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14:40:38	CIA-81	r27904 build result: 808 errors, 0 warnings (kugel committed)
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14:42:16	balintx	re
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14:44:05	n1s	whoops, seems like i broke the wiki access control
14:44:34	n1s	can a wiki admin revert the last edit to WikiUsersGroup ?
14:45:06	n1s	pinging Bagder Zagor
14:48:00	pixelma	LinusN too, maybe :)
14:48:02	Zagor	checking
14:48:32	CIA-81	New commit by 03kugel (r27905): Fix checkwps.
14:48:35	Zagor	ooh, pretty :)
14:50:45	Zagor	n1s: fixed
14:51:00	CIA-81	r27905 build result: All green
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14:51:29	n1s	Zagor: thanks!
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14:56:00	balintx	is it possible rockbox meshed up my fuzev2? i tried to copy a directory from an external SD card to the internal memory, and it said Copy( or paste?) was not successful. When I tried to open this directory, it opened the root of the internal memory, like a symbolic link. I tried to delete from USB, but rockbox was not even recognising the usb, just starts charging! I have booted OF, then plugged usb, and windows says Unrecognized device
14:56:00	balintx	both on MTP or MSC mode. The Rockbox build is r27430.
14:57:31	kugel	can I rename sleep()?
14:58:02	kugel	either that, or making it "unsigned sleep(unsgined)", it's erroring in the android port
14:59:29	balintx	now it is "ANIC*" "kov main"
14:59:43	balintx	may PANIC" but it not show properly
15:00
15:00:37	balintx	maybe a formatting solves my problem..?
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15:07:20	kugel	gevaerts: any opinion?
15:10:37		Quit kaiscene ()
15:11:04	balintx	formatted the internal memory using original firmware, the problem is same, now I can't use rockbox tough
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15:14:11	balintx	idea? :/
15:14:44	gevaerts	kugel: changing the prototype seems best I think
15:15:24	kugel	I don't feel strong but our sleep() also behaves quite different
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15:16:22	CIA-81	New commit by 03teru (r27906): Fix bug adding a playlist to another playlist doesn't finish if it has UTF-8 BOM introduced by r24718.
15:16:30	gevaerts	true
15:17:38	balintx	interesting. it loaded an sd card to database, and after 10 minutes the usb was recognized
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15:18:47	gevaerts	kugel: the #define sleep(x) sim_sleep(x) doesn't help?
15:19:19	kugel	not exactly, because it also substitutes sleep() in unistd.h :)
15:19:20	CIA-81	r27906 build result: All green
15:19:51	gevaerts	ah, I see how that can be an issue :)
15:23:33	CIA-81	New commit by 03fredwbauer (r27907): Added myself
15:25:23	CIA-81	r27907 build result: All green
15:25:28	kugel	\o/
15:26:31	freddyb	Kugel: Got one right...
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15:29:46	freddyb	As a follow up to the skin fonts change I'm kinda thinking we should only write the glyphcache file for FONT_UI. That way a small skin font won't chop it too short.
15:36:15	Torne	probably
15:36:54	Torne	there's a downside to that, though, which is that if your UI is in english but you have lots of songs in another language it won't cache those chars if the WPS displays it in a different font
15:37:08	Torne	it's probably not that significant, though :)
15:38:01	kugel	yay
15:38:17	*	kugel compiles the android app without uisimulator/common/io.c
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15:41:35	kugel	but it's broken :\
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15:48:18	freddyb	It would be simple to use multiple glyphcache files. I'm going to experiment with one for each glyph slot.
15:50:23	CIA-81	New commit by 03teru (r27908): tweak lrcplayer.
15:52:41	CIA-81	r27908 build result: All green
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16:05:13	kugel	it's interesting that remove_dir() (onplay.c) isn't horribly broken
16:05:35	kugel	considering what sim_readdir does (always return a static dirent struct)
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16:10:42	kugel	oh that directory handling is a can of worms actually
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17:10:32	CIA-81	New commit by 03fredwbauer (r27909): limit font_cache preloading to cache capacity
17:13:28	CIA-81	r27909 build result: All green
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17:43:46	kugel	wow
17:43:57	kugel	decent speed up from using native dir functions directly
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18:48:56	CIA-81	New commit by 03fredwbauer (r27910): close file when cached font load fails
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18:52:41	CIA-81	r27910 build result: All green
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19:40:27	kugel	there's no way to get from dirent pointer to the complete path?
19:40:42	kugel	dirent->d_name only has the name of the entry, not its parents
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20:25:27	CIA-81	New commit by 03fredwbauer (r27911): change get_glyph_size() to font_glyphs_to_bufsize(). fixes a bug when font glyph buffer < font header
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20:28:20	CIA-81	r27911 build result: All green
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20:39:16		Nick BeFalou_ is now known as BeFalou (~mamutoi@unaffiliated/befalou)
20:41:30	BeFalou	is there any runtime improvement since 3.6 with fuzev1?
20:42:12	BeFalou	I see that v2 runs for more 20 hours which is great
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20:49:55	balintx	no idea
20:49:57	balintx	:)
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21:06:21	bertrik	I don't remember anything was done to improve runtime for fuze v1 since 3.6
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21:46:35	kugel	io.c less android working :)
21:47:06	kugel	death to libuisimulator!
21:49:51	freddyb	Good job! Did you figure out the path thing or did you have to chase up on level at a time?
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22:14:41	kugel	freddyb: what do you mean?
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22:24:04	kugel	ah well
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22:24:12	kugel	I figured out that it's not possible
22:24:42	kugel	now I just save the dir path in the DIR* pointer and use it when getting to it
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