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| 02:24:43 | likemindead | Linux folks, what is your preferred audio player/jukebox, Amarok, Banshee, Exaile, Rhythmbox, or ____ ? |
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| 03:15:17 | krabador | likemindead, gmusicbrowser |
| 03:15:32 | krabador | likemindead, or mpd with frontend |
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| 03:21:12 | likemindead | I'm really digging Exaile. I'm not familiar with gmusicbrowser, though. |
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| 03:59:31 | simonrvn | exaile is surprisingly cool |
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| 04:06:06 | krabador | try gmusicbrowser, it do anything you want |
| 04:07:11 | krazykit | please keep offtopic chatter elsewhere, like the #rockbox-community channel. linux media player talk isn't rockbox related |
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| 07:37:08 | fir3 | hi |
| 07:38:07 | fir3 | where can i find a spanish - english/german dictionary for the dict plugin? |
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| 08:20:07 | docgnome | So i have discovered something that i like better about my old studio 20 than my new sansa fuze. That is that the archos studio had an output jack which bypassed the internal amp for plugging into stereos and the like. Are there any settings that would help me minimize hum from the amp in the fuze being magnified by any stereo i plug it into? |
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| 08:25:53 | n1s | docgnome: turning the volume up to 0dB and making sure there are no other boosts (bass/treble/eq/RG) causing clipping or distorsion is probably the closest you can get |
| 08:33:42 | docgnome | yeah. is there any way to preset all that stuff to make it easily to swatch? |
| 08:34:03 | n1s | yeah, make a different cfg and load that |
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| 08:35:29 | docgnome | ah |
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| 09:54:37 | [Saint] | Hmmm..question (to refer back to someone else), after booting the OF on an H10 6GB, how do I boot back into RB? |
| 09:54:42 | [Saint] | s/I/they/ |
| 10:00 |
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| 10:13:27 | docgnome | any ideas why when i try to resume a bookmark it doesnt' work? |
| 10:14:08 | docgnome | i have a list of recent bookmarks from the main screen but when i try to go to one with select i just get returned to the main screen |
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| 10:19:14 | JdGordon1 | how did you create the bookmark? |
| 10:19:16 | JdGordon1 | did it come from a dynamic playlist? or a database playlist? |
| 10:19:40 | docgnome | uh... dynamic i think |
| 10:19:44 | bertrik | I remember a bug report about something similar |
| 10:19:59 | docgnome | i just clicked on a file off the database |
| 10:20:05 | docgnome | and then turned it off |
| 10:20:20 | docgnome | as i had "create bookmarks on stop" on |
| 10:20:22 | docgnome | and it make one |
| 10:20:23 | docgnome | er made |
| 10:20:54 | bertrik | this one appears very similar to your problem: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/11486 |
| 10:22:32 | docgnome | that's th eone. |
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| 10:27:58 | bertrik | docgnome, well it's a genuine bug, don't feel bad about reporting it. Unfortunately I'm not familiar with the bookmarking thing myself. As I read the bug comments, there are apparently very specific conditions in which bookmarking works. |
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| 10:41:38 | pixelma | [Saint]: do you remember details of the cabbiev2 port of the 128x64x1 (Clip) version? I ask because there are slight dimension mismatches in viewport or progressbar definitions compared to the bmp (e.g. the progressbar as a length parameter of 123 and the bmp is 124) |
| 10:42:10 | [Saint] | pixelma: Wasn't me I don't think. |
| 10:42:19 | [Saint] | I could have a look, though. |
| 10:42:28 | pixelma | 124 pixels wide, I mean. I wonder if that causes any of the screen corruption though even it shouldn't |
| 10:42:57 | [Saint] | it *shouldn't*...but, anything is possible. mc2739 did the monochrome screens IIRC |
| 10:44:22 | pixelma | it was committed by mc2739 with the patch you both worked on (I first looked at the wron 128x* file and thought it was you) |
| 10:44:30 | pixelma | wrong too |
| 10:46:29 | [Saint] | I only did colour targets, I don't blame you for the confusion though...I even I have trouble remembering what target is what based on screen size, so I have to stop and think "Is it monochrome? greyscale?" "No? ...I probably did it" "Yes? ...Wasn't me...phew ;)" |
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| 10:49:00 | pixelma | the progressbar length thing really went in with this patch, there is also this line separator graphic which will also exceed the viewport limits because of its position - that was already the case before and didn't cause problems |
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| 10:50:10 | bertrik | pixelma, I originally made the clip-specific WPS by copying the existing 128x64 and modifying it to avoid crossing the yellow/magenta border. |
| 10:50:54 | pixelma | yes, but it was changed by funman during DevCon to unify the 128x64x1 WPSs again |
| 10:50:57 | bertrik | At devcon 2010, we removed the clip specific one, and replaced it with another modified version of the original 128x64, which funman committed (I think) |
| 10:51:20 | bertrik | ok :) |
| 10:53:34 | | Quit [Saint] (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 10:54:00 | | Join S_a_i_n_t [0] (S_a_i_n_t@203.184.3.167) |
| 10:55:22 | pixelma | I can't see such errors in the Archos version though (at least not in the obvious places - background and progressbar) and I get the screen corruption problem there too |
| 10:56:35 | pixelma | just wondering why it seems cabbiev2 is affected the most |
| 10:56:41 | bertrik | I haven't seen corruption on my clip+ lately, although it does seem that the progressbar gets drawn in several steps |
| 10:57:09 | S_a_i_n_t | Is it an error? Certainly... Do I think it causes screen corruption? Not *really*, but, I could be surprised. |
| 10:57:17 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 10:57:31 | S_a_i_n_t | it's pretty easy to check, though. |
| 10:57:52 | pixelma | with the theme editor? |
| 10:59:17 | pixelma | bertrik: you could do a quick test, exchanging the 123 in "%pb(2,1,123,4,pb-128x64x1.bmp)" with "124" or "-" |
| 10:59:25 | | Quit webguest412 (Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)) |
| 11:00 |
| 11:00:12 | bertrik | yes, I'll test. Does the corruption only happen on target, or also in the sim? |
| 11:01:19 | S_a_i_n_t | pixelma: You could modify it on device easily. |
| 11:01:27 | S_a_i_n_t | just with the text_editor. |
| 11:01:37 | S_a_i_n_t | that's what I meant by "easy t check" |
| 11:01:40 | S_a_i_n_t | *to |
| 11:03:09 | pixelma | bertrik: not sure, *I* only saw it on target so far but didn't use an Ondio sim that much (the only thing I tested there is if my WPS at least parses ok) |
| 11:03:29 | bertrik | I'll try "-" first |
| 11:04:03 | pixelma | S_a_i_n_t: well, but what would I check if I don't see an obvious error? |
| 11:05:19 | S_a_i_n_t | I have no idea what you're talking about now...sorry. |
| 11:05:59 | S_a_i_n_t | I'm talking about your change between 123 and 124 pixels being terribly easy to check, on device. |
| 11:06:12 | S_a_i_n_t | If that does indeed cause/fix screen corruption. |
| 11:06:30 | S_a_i_n_t | you mentioned the editor, just mentioning I didn't think that's necessary at all. |
| 11:06:48 | bertrik | pixelma, I replaced "123" with "-" and the WPS is not corrupted, but I'm missing the right side of the progressbar |
| 11:07:54 | pixelma | S_a_i_n_t: I was talking about seeing none of "bitmap would be drawn outside the frame it is given" in the Archos version so far and still experienced screen corruption |
| 11:07:55 | * | S_a_i_n_t finds using "-" to be wrought with hillarious side effects since the various different draw styles for bars were implemented |
| 11:07:57 | | Join webguest412 [0] (~cf664043@giant.haxx.se) |
| 11:08:49 | S_a_i_n_t | in my experience, bars need specific pixel definitions for x,y,etc and not "-" now |
| 11:09:05 | bertrik | it looks like the right "end cap" of the progress bar is missing |
| 11:09:07 | pixelma | I wondered in a second thought what "-" would be: space left in the viewport or length of the bitmap |
| 11:09:38 | pixelma | bertrik: could you try 124? |
| 11:12:49 | S_a_i_n_t | pixelma: "-" (for the progressbars) is "space available to the viewport. |
| 11:12:53 | S_a_i_n_t | +" |
| 11:13:13 | webguest412 | gevaerts: S_a_i_n_t: Torne: and anyone who helped I forgot. Sweet got it working. Thanks a bunch. Ended up downloaded the partition table again thinking I maybe got a corrupted copy the first time. After that everyghing went smoothly and I booted into rockbox (ipod 5.5g 80gb manual hfs+ -> fat32 conversion, mkdosfs, bootloader couldn't find rockbox , tried mformat but that ran forever, popped into diagnotic mode for some disk stats, thanks all) |
| 11:13:45 | bertrik | pixelma, 124 looks weird, the progress bar seems truncated too but in a different way. At the top-right I see the straight parts of the progress bar then a column of empty pixels, then a column with two pixels (part of the "end cap" probably) |
| 11:13:53 | webguest412 | now on to the rest of the manual |
| 11:14:05 | JdGordon | "S_a_i_n_t finds using "-" to be wrought with hillarious side effects since the various different draw styles for bars were implemented" <- ? |
| 11:14:07 | webguest412 | figure out how to work this baby |
| 11:14:36 | S_a_i_n_t | JdGordon: Yep, one of those "forgot it until now" things |
| 11:14:54 | JdGordon | i mean... such as? |
| 11:15:12 | JdGordon | there should be no side effects... misunderstandings maybe, but not side effects |
| 11:15:16 | pixelma | bertrik: seems like what I am seeing sometimes which goes away or will look differently (wrong) after reloading the theme |
| 11:15:18 | S_a_i_n_t | not drawing the bar to the full extent of the viewport it has available |
| 11:15:23 | S_a_i_n_t | JdGordon: ^ |
| 11:15:38 | * | JdGordon would like to see a proper example |
| 11:16:02 | bertrik | pixelma, I'll have a look to see if it's the same as in the simulator |
| 11:16:44 | pixelma | bertrik: could you just switch to a different theme and get back? |
| 11:16:45 | S_a_i_n_t | well, when I forst played with bars after the bar additions were added I was fixing a theme for a user, and he'd used _,_ for the bars x,y and it simply wouldn;t work until I added actual numbers |
| 11:16:50 | S_a_i_n_t | *first |
| 11:17:04 | S_a_i_n_t | and -,- rather |
| 11:17:29 | bertrik | pixelma, switched to boxes, then back to cabbiev2, it still looks the same |
| 11:18:20 | S_a_i_n_t | It only drew the inbuilt bar to approximately halfway across the screen. |
| 11:18:22 | pixelma | meh, 124 should be correct though as it is the width of the graphic |
| 11:18:29 | JdGordon | S_a_i_n_t: if there is a bug there a concrete example would be much more useful |
| 11:18:50 | S_a_i_n_t | Well, not having one...shit outta luck I'm afraid. |
| 11:19:13 | S_a_i_n_t | I don't use "-" in any definition, so...it doesn't pop up for me. |
| 11:20:11 | S_a_i_n_t | I only mentioned it because I had all sorts of fun figuring out what I needed to do to get the bar to draw correctly, and, my fix was removing the "-"s and inputting actual numbers |
| 11:20:57 | * | JdGordon calls shenanigans |
| 11:21:07 | S_a_i_n_t | Easy to do, I suppose ;) |
| 11:22:32 | bertrik | pixelma, I see the same on the sim as on the real clip+ target |
| 11:23:07 | S_a_i_n_t | JdGordon: I'd say however, that bertrik's example above was kinda telling, however |
| 11:23:16 | S_a_i_n_t | -one however |
| 11:24:02 | | Join Jaykay [0] (~chatzilla@p5DC56F8D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:24:02 | S_a_i_n_t | Perhaps it has nothing at al to do with the new bar types, just, it was around the same time I noticed it. |
| 11:24:27 | bertrik | hm, after switching to engineer and back to cabbiev2 in the sim, I'm missing the progress bar, I only see the "filling" part |
| 11:25:05 | S_a_i_n_t | bertrik: that *may* be fun caused by draw order |
| 11:25:11 | JdGordon | which being - is causing issues? |
| 11:25:38 | S_a_i_n_t | bar length, in my experience, and this case also |
| 11:25:48 | S_a_i_n_t | errr...length/width |
| 11:26:25 | JdGordon | I dont see why it should be causing problems |
| 11:26:41 | JdGordon | pb->width = vp->width - pb->x; <- seems sane to me |
| 11:26:51 | | Quit mulenmar (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 11:27:12 | JdGordon | hmm... is x is also - it could mess things up |
| 11:27:33 | JdGordon | pb->x = vp->x seems wrong... |
| 11:27:40 | JdGordon | that doesnt make it viewport relative |
| 11:27:41 | S_a_i_n_t | well, nor could I really, but in the trial I gave it the bar was supposed to be 200px wide (the VP it was drawn ins definition, and using 200 worked fine, but "-" only drew 120px or so. |
| 11:29:13 | JdGordon | that line has been there since the origional conditional viewports commit! june 08 |
| 11:29:39 | S_a_i_n_t | Oh, well..sorry to blame the new bar types then ;) |
| 11:29:46 | | Join mulenmar [0] (~mulenmar@74-132-43-158.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 11:30:06 | S_a_i_n_t | the author said "it suddenly stopped working" and it was 2~3 days after the bar commits |
| 11:31:11 | JdGordon | tucker time... ill have a look after |
| 11:34:17 | pixelma | this all makes me wonder if there is an underlying back that causes all sorts of weird side effects |
| 11:35:18 | pixelma | s/back/bug |
| 11:36:00 | pixelma | the Archos version has a "-" for progressbar width by the way but the viewport dimensions are correct for it |
| 11:36:15 | webguest412 | been seeing WPS in the manual. define: wps in google turned up nothing relevant. Can anyone expand the acronym for me? |
| 11:36:33 | S_a_i_n_t | while playing screen |
| 11:36:40 | webguest412 | Thx |
| 11:37:06 | mulenmar | Okay, stupid question time: is there a way to configure the Rockbox compilation so it *doesn't* build certain plugins or codecs? I can always just delete them afterwards, I know. |
| 11:37:08 | * | S_a_i_n_t hands webguest412 and "a" and an "n" |
| 11:37:21 | S_a_i_n_t | and, replaces the X for a "K" |
| 11:37:43 | mulenmar | But some plugins are near-useless on a Nano 2G's nanoscopic screen. |
| 11:38:01 | S_a_i_n_t | which? |
| 11:38:04 | * | bluebroth3r grumbles as OS X |
| 11:38:20 | webguest412 | but S_a_i_n_t forgets the s |
| 11:38:27 | pixelma | webguest412: is e.g. "Chapter 4.3 While Playing Screen" followed by "4.3.1 WPS Key Controls" not clear enough? That's an honest question, maybe we could improve the manual |
| 11:38:28 | webguest412 | :) |
| 11:38:44 | S_a_i_n_t | Nano2G is my primary player now...so, I'm curious. It all seems fine for me. |
| 11:38:54 | S_a_i_n_t | mulenmar: ^ |
| 11:39:44 | mulenmar | Well S_a_i_n_t, the games can be difficult to see without a magnifying glass. Same reason I never played the (more pathetic) games in the OFW. |
| 11:40:05 | S_a_i_n_t | well...you realise you have a Nano...right? ;) |
| 11:40:26 | S_a_i_n_t | If screen size was a requirement, it seems a fairly wrong player to get. |
| 11:41:08 | mulenmar | I was a Windows Vista user when this thing was gotten for me as a gift. I've come a long way since then. ;~) |
| 11:41:18 | mulenmar | Besides, for music playing it's just fine. |
| 11:41:31 | mulenmar | (That and I can't find my iPod Touch atm) |
| 11:41:39 | S_a_i_n_t | mulenmar: apps/plugins/sources |
| 11:42:32 | webguest412 | pixelma: well, I'm only on section 3. Looked in the intro, nothing, looked for a glossary, nothing, Didn't ghink to look at the rest of the toc. so as suggestions towards improving the manual, i would say a glossary, or a Tems used in the following pages section, maybe a hot link from acronym like that to the maybe gloassary so rb noobs like me don't have to pester:) |
| 11:42:55 | webguest412 | s/Tems/Terms/ |
| 11:43:13 | S_a_i_n_t | webguest412: .wps is explained in the themes section IIUC |
| 11:43:29 | S_a_i_n_t | or, "advanced topics", I forget |
| 11:43:45 | mulenmar | S_a_i_n_t: So I just edit that file, and that specifies which plugins to build? (p.s. it's apps/plugins/SOURCES) |
| 11:43:59 | bertrik | how should I encode a constant used in FRACMUL? |
| 11:44:30 | pixelma | webguest412: ah, probably not easy to do. But thanks for your feedback :) |
| 11:44:31 | S_a_i_n_t | mulenmar: Yes...and *so* sorry I forgot to capitalise ;) |
| 11:44:53 | CIA-81 | New commit by bluebrother (r27997): Add -config intel option to allow building for Intel targets only on Mac. ... |
| 11:45:01 | mulenmar | S_a_i_n_t: I'm on a GNU/Linux distro, it's important. ;~) Thanks! ^_^ |
| 11:45:49 | S_a_i_n_t | mulenmar: basically, find what you think is "pointless", and kill it in that file. |
| 11:46:37 | CIA-81 | r27997 build result: All green |
| 11:46:40 | S_a_i_n_t | adding /*<comment>*/ is probably better than removing the entries completely |
| 11:46:51 | mulenmar | S_a_i_n_t: Ooh, I see the MP3 codec listed too. *notes for removal from later rebuild* |
| 11:47:33 | S_a_i_n_t | mulenmar: No codecs should be listed there. |
| 11:47:49 | S_a_i_n_t | sure you aren't mistaking mp3_encoder? |
| 11:48:13 | pixelma | I believe bluebroth3r once started preparing an index thing for the manual but it didn't really take off |
| 11:48:21 | | Join ender` [0] (krneki@foo.eternallybored.org) |
| 11:48:34 | mulenmar | *facepalm* Yes, S_a_i_n_t −− but the encoder is DEFINITELY patent-encumbered in my country, so . . . |
| 11:49:00 | S_a_i_n_t | "so, don't tell anyone" ;) |
| 11:49:43 | | Quit h3po (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 11:50:47 | mulenmar | S_a_i_n_t: Well, my ultimate goal on this is for my Rockbox to ONLY play OGG Vorbis, Speex, and FLAC (hah! In 2GB?) files. And encoding directly on the Nano is pretty useless for me. |
| 11:50:48 | bluebroth3r | pixelma: true. Though there wasn't that much interest (IIRC), and as you can do a fulltext search in the PDF and HTML files it doesn't add that much anyway. Unless you print the manual :) |
| 11:51:12 | bluebroth3r | however, if there's enough interest I can see if I have that work still around somewhere |
| 11:51:59 | bluebroth3r | though an index also means that all items to be added to the index need to get marked in the text itself (i.e. you mark an item as "add to index" in the text, and LaTeX will build up the list of items & page numbers) |
| 11:59:57 | * | S_a_i_n_t wonders why anyone would want to *reduce* the playback capabilities of Rockbox. |
| 12:00 |
| 12:00:24 | S_a_i_n_t | You could just, only *load* OGG, FLAC, and Speex files on the device |
| 12:01:34 | mulenmar | S_a_i_n_t: Might I point out that my Nano 2G only has 2 gigabytes of space, and I only have ~300MB left? Every bit of space counts. |
| 12:01:38 | mulenmar | Pun not intended. |
| 12:02:09 | S_a_i_n_t | space counts...and you *don't* want to play .mp3s...hehe...that *is* a pun ;) |
| 12:02:22 | S_a_i_n_t | whether intended or not. |
| 12:02:40 | S_a_i_n_t | you really won't save *any* notable space from remiving thigns from the source |
| 12:02:46 | S_a_i_n_t | *removing |
| 12:03:02 | S_a_i_n_t | maybe a few MB...maybe. |
| 12:03:11 | JdGordon | on the topic of semi broken cabbie.... we really should put effort into a skin resizer because the skin code should be easy to resize to fit any screen. So instead of 15odd cabbie versions we could just need 3 (portait, landscape, square) and maybe a few mono's also. The images could then be resized from svg or manually as needed |
| 12:04:04 | S_a_i_n_t | from converstion already in the logs a while back now, I think it would be nice...but, a dream. |
| 12:04:14 | mulenmar | S_a_i_n_t: Also, Rockboy is, literally, PAINFUL on a Nano. |
| 12:04:15 | S_a_i_n_t | especially the .SVG aspect. |
| 12:04:32 | S_a_i_n_t | mulenmar: rockboy is quite playable here. |
| 12:04:55 | mulenmar | S_a_i_n_t: Glad you have Superman's eyesight, then. ;~) |
| 12:05:02 | S_a_i_n_t | I'd suggest simply not using it, no need to remove it. |
| 12:05:15 | S_a_i_n_t | mulenmar: and no, my eyesight is crap ;) |
| 12:05:16 | Llorean | S_a_i_n_t: I think he means SVG resizing during build or on the theme server to generate new screen sizes of the theme as needed. |
| 12:05:31 | Llorean | But then if that's true, the .wps could also be resized by an automated tool rather than on-target |
| 12:05:33 | S_a_i_n_t | Llorean: I know what he means..I suggested it. |
| 12:05:59 | S_a_i_n_t | But, it can't deal with transparency...so, not a great idea at all IMO |
| 12:06:08 | mulenmar | S_a_i_n_t: Space, again. I don't like having things lying around that I don't use. Again, I COULD just delete it −− but if I'm building from source anyway (for experience), why build it in the first place? |
| 12:06:32 | bluebroth3r | mulenmar: mpa.codec is 81K for nano2g here (though that build isn't up to date) |
| 12:06:46 | S_a_i_n_t | mulenmar: it's be interesting how much space you actually save...I think you believe you'll be saving a lot more than you really are |
| 12:07:07 | S_a_i_n_t | 1~2MB tops is my guess |
| 12:07:53 | mulenmar | 1-2MB is almost half a song depending on what level quality I use. |
| 12:08:05 | S_a_i_n_t | wooo! |
| 12:08:14 | S_a_i_n_t | (sorry, but, that's kinda lame ;)) |
| 12:08:30 | mulenmar | LAME, no MP3, very funny. |
| 12:08:31 | Llorean | Half a song only really matters if you just happen to have slightly more than half a song already free in the end. |
| 12:08:32 | S_a_i_n_t | I'd rather my player did a bunch of stuff I never used, but, that's me. |
| 12:08:50 | bluebroth3r | there's more gain in removing unused plugins (doom itself is more than 400k) |
| 12:09:03 | soap | mulenmar, removing unifont from the downloaded build will save 10x as much HDD space as all the plugins and codecs combined. |
| 12:09:09 | S_a_i_n_t | but...in saying that, what's 400K...really? |
| 12:09:25 | S_a_i_n_t | errr s/K/k? |
| 12:09:36 | mulenmar | 400K = um . . . a few seconds, I think. |
| 12:09:45 | S_a_i_n_t | my point exactly. |
| 12:09:50 | S_a_i_n_t | not worth the hassle IMO |
| 12:09:51 | bluebroth3r | unifont is almost 2MiB |
| 12:09:51 | mulenmar | And considering doom needs a wad, it's MORE than 400KB. |
| 12:10:08 | mulenmar | And multiple fonts are USELESS on the Nano's screen, don't forget. |
| 12:10:15 | S_a_i_n_t | bullshit |
| 12:10:22 | S_a_i_n_t | sorry, I mean..."crap" |
| 12:10:31 | mulenmar | A few too big, a lot WAY too small. |
| 12:10:35 | bluebroth3r | sure, but I was leaving out the wad on purpose (since it's not part of a normal Rockbox install, Rockbox Utility adds it in the "full" install though) |
| 12:10:35 | S_a_i_n_t | ALL my Nano themes use multiple fonts |
| 12:10:48 | * | S_a_i_n_t == Nano themer |
| 12:11:09 | Llorean | mulenmar: On my Nano I used to literally use the smallest font Rockbox had, so it's very subjective how useful any given font is. |
| 12:11:11 | | Quit Hadaka (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 12:11:25 | * | JdGordon would be really interested in seeing if transparency with svg resizing would actully cause a problem.... I really cant believe it would |
| 12:11:36 | S_a_i_n_t | Llorean: I too use 5px font in many places on my Nano themes |
| 12:11:40 | bertrik | I think I have the meier crossfeed circuit working now in dsp.c |
| 12:12:03 | S_a_i_n_t | JdGordon: resize *amy* fromat with transparency...then load it in RB |
| 12:12:06 | S_a_i_n_t | *any |
| 12:12:16 | Llorean | JdGordon: I mean as long as you used a decent resizing tool and the right parameters, I'm sure it'd be just fine. |
| 12:12:24 | S_a_i_n_t | s/resize/resize - then export to bitmap/ |
| 12:12:26 | JdGordon | S_a_i_n_t: yes, but we can do whatever post proccessing is needed to make it work |
| 12:12:27 | * | bluebroth3r wonders why the iLook theme for the Nano2g doesn't follow the "show path" setting :/ |
| 12:12:52 | S_a_i_n_t | JdGordon: the dithering between colours from resizing trying to be "smart" makes it useless IMO |
| 12:12:56 | soap | I was wrong |
| 12:13:13 | soap | Nano 2G build before stripping = 8.6 MB |
| 12:13:19 | S_a_i_n_t | bluebroth3r: "iLook" or "iLike"? |
| 12:13:36 | Llorean | S_a_i_n_t: So how do people resize source images for themes *normally* then? |
| 12:13:37 | soap | 7.3 MB of that is stripable |
| 12:13:47 | Llorean | There's a lot of themes that are resized down from vector based PSDs for smaller targets. |
| 12:14:04 | S_a_i_n_t | Llorean: they resize them, and clean them up by hand...painstakingly. |
| 12:14:27 | bluebroth3r | S_a_i_n_t: sorry, meant "iLike" |
| 12:14:39 | S_a_i_n_t | bluebroth3r: what's wrong with it? |
| 12:14:47 | S_a_i_n_t | I'm curious now...that's mine. |
| 12:14:59 | JdGordon | S_a_i_n_t: with proper transparency you dont use a magic colour so any descent program should be able to put our magic colour back in |
| 12:15:21 | S_a_i_n_t | JdGordon: that would be before the export/resize though. |
| 12:15:27 | S_a_i_n_t | making it irrelevant, no? |
| 12:15:30 | bluebroth3r | I've set the "Show Path" setting to "Current Directory", but the file browser doesn't show the current folder. |
| 12:15:34 | S_a_i_n_t | its the resize that hurts it. |
| 12:15:34 | JdGordon | not at all |
| 12:15:40 | soap | That's removing all the shipped themes but Cabbie v2, all the shipped fonts but Hel, all the codecs but what mulenmar explicitly mentioned, all the plugins, all the languages but english. |
| 12:15:47 | Llorean | S_a_i_n_t: Why couldn't you resize and then substitute the magic color? |
| 12:15:55 | JdGordon | svg resize to desired dimensions, then export to bmp |
| 12:16:00 | bluebroth3r | maybe that's on purpose ... I've also loaded the Tango icons that come with Rockbox which makes it look much nicer :) |
| 12:16:30 | S_a_i_n_t | bluebroth3r: I didn't even know you had a Nano, you would have been on my testing list if so ;) |
| 12:16:36 | S_a_i_n_t | yes, it is by purpose. |
| 12:16:49 | bluebroth3r | did you do that theme? |
| 12:16:53 | S_a_i_n_t | to keep the "settings" Themes" "blah" title out of the UI viewport |
| 12:16:58 | S_a_i_n_t | yeah |
| 12:17:01 | | Join Hadaka [0] (~naked@naked.iki.fi) |
| 12:17:02 | S_a_i_n_t | it's mine |
| 12:17:07 | soap | Llorean, the danger of resizing and then substituting the magic color (or any other technique not using "true" transparency) is the danger of edge effects. |
| 12:17:10 | bluebroth3r | ok. Still, I like it :) |
| 12:17:20 | S_a_i_n_t | bluebroth3r: thanks ;) |
| 12:17:31 | soap | (edges getting their colors shifted, blended (dithered?) on rescale.) |
| 12:17:51 | Llorean | soap: Aren't edge effects guaranteed anyway since we don't do translucency? The edges of any image are going to be jagged unless the background happens to be ideal for it |
| 12:18:02 | S_a_i_n_t | soap: and it getting cocky, and picking out colours that are too close to the "magic" colour that are not intended to be transparent |
| 12:18:31 | S_a_i_n_t | I think its a great idea...but, far too hard to get right |
| 12:18:54 | JdGordon | more of what I am prposiing is to make it easier to scale/size the actual skin code, images ideally should be able to be auto converted also but even if a bit of post processing is needed, it would still be a big benefit |
| 12:18:57 | soap | Llorean, what S_a_i_n_t said. It isn't the jaggies, it's the colors which are _almost_ the color you substitute (and thus remain behind after substitution) which are what I was trying to talk about. |
| 12:19:00 | S_a_i_n_t | I thought it would be easy as pie...I was the one that suggested this, but, I took it back. |
| 12:19:08 | Llorean | I think there are some sprite resizing algorithms that might make sense |
| 12:19:10 | S_a_i_n_t | It is a potential lesson in disaster IMO |
| 12:19:22 | Llorean | There's a lot of work that's been put into resizing things with transparency but not translucency for arbitrary backgrounds |
| 12:19:24 | pixelma | IMO resizing from SVGs will make every port look worse as tiny differences can cause great effect |
| 12:19:26 | pixelma | s |
| 12:19:56 | S_a_i_n_t | the effort needed to clean up afterward by hand, makes the work irrelevant |
| 12:20:02 | S_a_i_n_t | (IMO) |
| 12:20:16 | S_a_i_n_t | If anyone wants to try, I won't jump in front of the bus to stop them |
| 12:20:27 | JdGordon | sureley less than making the images from scratch?> |
| 12:20:35 | S_a_i_n_t | .SVG support in core would make this *very* possible |
| 12:20:45 | S_a_i_n_t | JdGordon: Not in mu opinion, no. |
| 12:20:49 | S_a_i_n_t | *my |
| 12:20:54 | soap | of course, mulenmar should build a custom build w/o database, recording (?), etc to shave the binsize down as well. |
| 12:20:55 | Llorean | soap: Three steps then. 1) resize with an alpha channel. 2) look for any color matching the "magic" color and change it slightly. 3) cover everywhere the alpha channel says is tranparent with the magic color. |
| 12:20:56 | pixelma | neither mine |
| 12:21:00 | S_a_i_n_t | colour correction by hand is an ass. |
| 12:21:08 | Llorean | soap: I don't really see "left over colors" as that likely |
| 12:21:20 | S_a_i_n_t | I see it as very likely. |
| 12:21:22 | JdGordon | thats because you put the magic transparecny colour in the source svg |
| 12:21:32 | JdGordon | use svg transaprency and add it in after resigin to the correct size |
| 12:21:43 | webguest412 | pixelma: Doh! simpler suggestion to improve the manual: “While playing screenâ€, usually abbreviated as “WPS†(see section 4.3. appears in section 3.1.6. I 1st encountered WPS in section 3.1.4, so my suggestion is don't do anything. I only got impatient cause I'd already encountered the term lots in my considerable browsing of hte manual before acutally installing RB. |
| 12:21:44 | Llorean | Yeah, I don't see why you'd use the "magic color" at any point before the final step |
| 12:21:45 | soap | Llorean, yea, that would work. Use the magic want to select the magic color and set the magic wand's tolerance high enough to cover near-misses. |
| 12:21:51 | S_a_i_n_t | it will only work well for *very* simple images. |
| 12:21:54 | JdGordon | also why the hell are there no source svg's for cabbie in svn |
| 12:22:03 | S_a_i_n_t | things like gradients will be blended too far, etc. |
| 12:22:11 | S_a_i_n_t | we've all seen horrible resize effects |
| 12:22:16 | bluebroth3r | are the original files for cabbie svg at all? |
| 12:22:21 | S_a_i_n_t | PSD |
| 12:22:23 | Llorean | soap: Since the magic color is absolute (you have to have the exact RBG values) it seems like you could very easily eliminate it during a stage where you still have an alpha channel to determine transparency |
| 12:22:30 | webguest412 | anyway, are you guys mostly RB developpers or just hard core RB enthusiasts? |
| 12:22:39 | JdGordon | webguest412: both |
| 12:23:13 | CIA-81 | New commit by jdgordon (r27998): progressbars are drawn inside viewports so all coords are viewport relative. so fix - for the x coord to be 0 instead of vp->x which never made sense ... |
| 12:23:31 | | Join [sko] [0] (~sko]@p57A98529.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 12:24:20 | pixelma | also the transparency "magic" colour isn't the problem - the border is. imagine resizing a 2 pixels completely black border to something smaller. You'll get two antialiased pixels (unless it's exactly half the size. Even if they are not transparent you need the colour they are usually displayed on to make them look good. If you resize without antialising you could possibly get the 1 pixel border at the correct spot but in 95% of the cases it'll look |
| 12:24:20 | pixelma | weird |
| 12:24:52 | CIA-81 | r27998 build result: All green |
| 12:25:12 | pixelma | *antialiasing - and especially thinking of nothing completely horizontal or vertical |
| 12:26:12 | S_a_i_n_t | pixelma: colour correction/substitution was my secondary concern if the transparency argument wasn't enough ;) |
| 12:26:18 | S_a_i_n_t | thanks for bringing it up. |
| 12:27:43 | CIA-81 | New commit by bluebrother (r27999): Don't search for libspeex on Windows and Mac. ... |
| 12:28:02 | pixelma | and I see the placement of things as a problem too - the aspect ratio of the different displays can be a problem too even if you have a "horizontal , vertical, square" base layout. There is a great difference between a 138x110 and e.g. a 132x80 display |
| 12:28:03 | webguest412 | Well then let me just offer a great big fat juicy KUDOS for RB. I'm not that far into the manual, but I've surfed the main menu, checked settings, tried a games and demos, and booted back and forth btwn RB and whatever the native OS is called, and I am seriously excited. I've got a trip coming up in a few days, 8 hrs of plane both ways, and a 4 hour wait for a connecting flight on the way out, and I just know the time is going to fly with RB on my i |
| 12:29:15 | CIA-81 | r27999 build result: All green |
| 12:31:38 | pixelma | webguest412: nice to hear :) |
| 12:32:38 | soap | which device do you have, webguest412? (sorry if you've already mentioned and I've forgotten) |
| 12:32:54 | pixelma | soap: an "i" ;) |
| 12:32:58 | * | bluebroth3r guesses the device was mentioned in the "my i" part :) |
| 12:33:05 | * | JdGordon really wants a cabbie sbs for touchscreen targets |
| 12:33:37 | S_a_i_n_t | way back further, Nano2G |
| 12:33:59 | * | pixelma wants less bugs with the theme engine/parser |
| 12:34:35 | mulenmar | soap: You said something about building without a database −− the manual says that the database has to be initialized before it can be used. Are you saying that it exists anyway, it just doesn't have anything in it? |
| 12:34:43 | JdGordon | pissing off the person responsible isnt the way to get them fixed then is it.... |
| 12:34:51 | JdGordon | ahem |
| 12:35:00 | * | JdGordon has a awesome idea for RaaA and the file browser :) |
| 12:35:00 | soap | yes - you could disable the building of it. shave a few more KB. |
| 12:35:05 | pixelma | if a bit of criticism pisses you off |
| 12:35:58 | soap | (by making the binary smaller) |
| 12:35:58 | soap | not to mention making the menu entry disappear |
| 12:35:58 | webguest412 | soap: ipod 5.5g 80GB |
| 12:36:00 | mulenmar | soap: Where do I edit to do that. |
| 12:36:08 | soap | ahh, webguest412, Rockbox on the iPod 5th gen is like a rock. |
| 12:37:06 | mulenmar | soap: Nice one, btw. |
| 12:37:06 | | Join Evilnick_ [0] (~Evilnick@cpe-24-193-43-185.nyc.res.rr.com) |
| 12:37:06 | soap | webguest412, consider having the actual screen turn off when the backlight goes off. You'll get better battery life than with Apple's firmware if you enable that option. |
| 12:37:09 | soap | webguest412, also consider turning off the accessory power supply if you don't use dock-mounted accessories. |
| 12:37:29 | S_a_i_n_t | that makes a rather huge differenc eon my Nanos |
| 12:38:32 | S_a_i_n_t | I didn;t think it would, but, it adds an hour or so. |
| 12:38:32 | S_a_i_n_t | (turning off accessory power supply) |
| 12:38:32 | pixelma | soap: depends on how often you want to look at the screen without doing anything |
| 12:38:47 | soap | yes, it is one of the largest single things one can do to save power. Buschel went to town one year scraping together power savings one ma at a time, and that was a big one. |
| 12:38:53 | pixelma | to e.g. get the info about the playing songs |
| 12:39:25 | webguest412 | soap, will do, and does the cable to connect the ipod to a usb port on my computer count as an accessory? |
| 12:39:29 | soap | pixelma, you mean look at the screen w/o enabling the backlight. |
| 12:39:36 | soap | webguest412, no. |
| 12:39:36 | pixelma | yes |
| 12:39:44 | | Quit evilnick (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 12:40:31 | soap | pixelma, unless you're very frequently looking at the screen I'll bet dollars to donuts one would still win with the screen set to turn off. |
| 12:40:46 | pixelma | you can do this on the Nano in most cases (at least on the 1st gen I once saw) and if you turn the screen off you can't do this anymore |
| 12:41:17 | webguest412 | soap: will that affect video playback? |
| 12:41:27 | soap | no |
| 12:41:34 | webguest412 | turning the screen off I mean |
| 12:41:40 | webguest412 | cool |
| 12:42:05 | soap | no, as the setting is tied to backlight. So if the backlight is on the screen is on. |
| 12:42:34 | mulenmar | Wait a moment −− it would be kinda cool if it was possible to both shut off the screen during playback AND then NOT decode the video part of the video. Kinda like mplayer -vo null.? |
| 12:42:55 | mulenmar | Of course, it could be tricky to then start decoding again at the right point, I suppose. |
| 12:43:25 | * | S_a_i_n_t wonders why anyone would want to do that. |
| 12:43:36 | S_a_i_n_t | Video == "watching video" IMO |
| 12:43:37 | soap | to listen to a movie? |
| 12:43:47 | S_a_i_n_t | people do that? |
| 12:43:51 | soap | sure |
| 12:43:52 | mulenmar | YES. |
| 12:43:55 | * | S_a_i_n_t shrugs |
| 12:44:28 | soap | and considering the fact Rockbox attempts to be as blind accessible as possible it's not a bad feature request. |
| 12:44:31 | mulenmar | People listen to books, too, without wanting to READ them. Sometimes people want to hear a movie, but don't have the time to be distracted by WATCHING it. |
| 12:44:35 | webguest412 | soap: Got it. Now, back to the manual, thanks again folks. |
| 12:44:42 | soap | saves people from demuxing he audio. |
| 12:45:27 | JdGordon | where does sdl.h live? |
| 12:45:31 | | Nick Evilnick_ is now known as evilnick (~Evilnick@cpe-24-193-43-185.nyc.res.rr.com) |
| 12:45:45 | | Quit evilnick (Changing host) |
| 12:45:45 | | Join evilnick [0] (~Evilnick@rockbox/staff/evilnick) |
| 12:46:52 | * | webguest412 must test to see if he understands how people attribute out loud thoughts to themselves |
| 12:48:38 | | Quit webguest412 (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF)) |
| 12:49:33 | mulenmar | soap: Where do I edit to NOT build the database at all? |
| 12:49:50 | mulenmar | I did a Scroogle search, didn't find anything useful. |
| 12:50:46 | JdGordon | anyone tried bvuilding the sdl app recently? |
| 12:50:51 | soap | firmware/export/config/<target>.h |
| 12:51:25 | pixelma | that reminds me... I listened to a few WMVs I have which is now possible since the WMA pro support (thanks mt). Some of them have audible glitches and I wonder if it is the WMA pro codec itself or the fact that they are played "oin a container". I need to dump the audio stream to test better I guess |
| 12:52:54 | soap | hmm, did it move? |
| 12:53:42 | JdGordon | HAVE_DATABASE has always been in firmware/export/config.h |
| 12:53:51 | JdGordon | it isnt target dependant really... its mem dependandyt |
| 12:54:32 | mulenmar | I'm looking through firmware/export/config/ipodnano2g.h now. |
| 12:54:52 | bluebroth3r | shouldn't it be sufficient to remove it from features.txt to disable it? |
| 12:55:02 | S_a_i_n_t | bluebroth3r: should be. |
| 12:55:28 | JdGordon | can someone please try building the sdl app and tell me if it errors out in filefuncs.h? |
| 12:55:30 | preglow | any people with a d2 here? |
| 12:55:39 | * | JdGordon has one |
| 12:55:48 | preglow | JdGordon: nice, you got problems with audio init someetimes? |
| 12:56:07 | JdGordon | I dont use it often nough to know |
| 12:56:10 | S_a_i_n_t | JdGordon: fwiw, I've never been able to build it here...but I expect it to be some CygWin thing kugel hasn't seen. |
| 12:56:33 | preglow | mine refuses to make sound very often |
| 12:56:40 | * | mulenmar just noticed that "HAVE_LCD_ENABLE" is commented out for the ipodnano2g.h −− so any trick to turn off the lcd doesn't work yet. |
| 12:57:12 | S_a_i_n_t | mulenmar: It is not possible to turn of LCD in the Nano2G |
| 12:57:14 | S_a_i_n_t | (yet) |
| 12:57:18 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 12:57:33 | S_a_i_n_t | you could only disable it *completely* |
| 12:57:42 | soap | grr, losing my mind. I would have sworn in was in config/<target>.h Looking at the svn log IF it was it wasn't there in a LONG time. |
| 12:57:59 | liar | S_a_i_n_t: its possible but not implemented in rockbox |
| 12:58:18 | mulenmar | I'll leave that for the people who actually know how to program C, S_a_i_n_t. ^_^ |
| 12:58:37 | S_a_i_n_t | liar: Kinda what I meant, thanks for the clarification...though. |
| 12:59:06 | * | JdGordon attempts to ESP get-kugel-in-here |
| 12:59:13 | soap | JdGordon, no, I'm right. It's in <target>.h |
| 12:59:22 | JdGordon | oh ok then :) |
| 12:59:27 | soap | #define HAVE_TAGCACHE |
| 12:59:54 | soap | mulenmar, ^ |
| 13:00 |
| 13:00:42 | JdGordon | grr... 27970 might be broken |
| 13:00:57 | mulenmar | Thanks soap! |
| 13:01:37 | * | JdGordon isnt sure why though :( |
| 13:05:57 | pixelma | preglow: people report intermittent problems with the D2s since the eabi switch, maybe you can find some info in the forums or contact shotofadds this way |
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| 13:06:22 | | Quit evilnick (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 13:09:55 | JdGordon | what is needed to get the app builds (at least sdl) into the build table? it is broken currenty |
| 13:11:28 | mulenmar | Unexpected −− I removed EVERYTHING from apps/plugins/SOURCES except credits.c and lamp.c, and it's building EVERYTHING. #oops |
| 13:11:36 | mulenmar | Guess I did that wrong. |
| 13:12:03 | bluebroth3r | mulenmar: you might also want to keep the properties plugin |
| 13:12:15 | mulenmar | Meh, should be useful to at least get a "maximum possible size" number. |
| 13:15:20 | S_a_i_n_t | mulenmar: It will probably still build it, the acid test is whether it includes it in your .zip in the end |
| 13:15:34 | mulenmar | bluebroth3r: What does that do, I don't see it listed in Plugins in a running Rockbox or in the PluginsIndex in the wiki? |
| 13:15:58 | bluebroth3r | mulenmar: it's invoked from the Properties context menu entry |
| 13:16:10 | S_a_i_n_t | mulenmar: It is accesed through the context menu |
| 13:16:43 | bluebroth3r | (similar with the credits plugin, but that also appears in the plugins list) |
| 13:25:08 | mulenmar | I had NEVER heard of the context menu before now, but I see the Properties entry. Interesting, but I don't see anything there that I can't get elsewhere. (Please correct me in the likely case I'm wrong.) |
| 13:27:54 | S_a_i_n_t | mulenmar: there are different menus (context menus) depending whee it is called |
| 13:28:07 | S_a_i_n_t | and yes, some things can only be accessed through the context meny |
| 13:28:11 | S_a_i_n_t | *menu |
| 13:28:32 | preglow | pixelma: yeah, this port seems rather rickety now |
| 13:28:39 | preglow | trying to add recording support :/ |
| 13:28:39 | mulenmar | S_a_i_n_t: I meant in the Properties entry itself −− although I was checking a music file with it. |
| 13:29:15 | preglow | and sweet god, does rockbox need some work on touch screens |
| 13:29:38 | S_a_i_n_t | I think the real question is...will it *get* that work? |
| 13:29:43 | JdGordon | it really only needs a touch sbs to be useable |
| 13:29:52 | preglow | sbs? |
| 13:29:58 | S_a_i_n_t | I would have thought the RaaA port would have inspired some work in that area...but, nope. |
| 13:30:01 | JdGordon | skin for the lists |
| 13:30:08 | mulenmar | And then I'm SURE somebody would create an iPod Touch port. ^_^ |
| 13:30:12 | preglow | raaa port is still very new |
| 13:30:33 | S_a_i_n_t | It needs support for absulute point in several screens also, but kugel seemed pretty keen on avoiding that. |
| 13:30:34 | bluebroth3r | (S)kin (B)or (S)ists *g* |
| 13:31:35 | S_a_i_n_t | "pretty keen" == thinking of implementing a splash telling the user that it has switched to grid mode, and switching to grid mode...rather than converting a few screens to use absolute point |
| 13:31:45 | mulenmar | Re the disabling plugins thing, some still made it into the zip |
| 13:31:52 | mulenmar | Demos: fft and fractals |
| 13:32:11 | mulenmar | Games −− ooh, Stkov nand panic again, hold on. |
| 13:32:16 | S_a_i_n_t | mulenmar: "meh"..less than you had before ;) |
| 13:32:36 | pixelma | mulenmar: probably ones in SUBDIRS then |
| 13:32:39 | mulenmar | S_a_i_n_t: And I'm mostly happy there. |
| 13:32:51 | S_a_i_n_t | mulenmar: wanna fix that panic? |
| 13:33:00 | * | S_a_i_n_t has a working solution there |
| 13:33:14 | mulenmar | Anyway, Games: chessbox, doom, goban, pacbox, reversi, sudoku |
| 13:33:41 | pixelma | you have to disable those in SUBDIRS not SOURCES |
| 13:33:43 | mulenmar | Applications: clock |
| 13:33:54 | mulenmar | pixelma: Thanks, I'll do that |
| 13:34:07 | mulenmar | S_a_i_n_t: Oh dear entropy, YES I do! |
| 13:34:27 | pixelma | I mean additionally |
| 13:35:18 | mulenmar | S_a_i_n_t: It didn't happen in r24509 |
| 13:35:57 | preglow | yeah, d2 crashes about 50% of the times when i turn it on now |
| 13:36:09 | | Join [Saint] [0] (S_a_i_n_t@203.184.0.68) |
| 13:36:36 | [Saint] | mulenmar: http://www.datafilehost.com/download-d992cd89.html |
| 13:36:43 | [Saint] | mulenmar: ^ |
| 13:36:51 | [Saint] | (no mare NAND Panics |
| 13:36:56 | [Saint] | +) |
| 13:37:19 | | Quit S_a_i_n_t (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 13:37:20 | [Saint] | assuming you're familiar with patching the source using "patch" |
| 13:37:43 | mulenmar | Familar, no. Can look up, yes. |
| 13:37:48 | mulenmar | *Familiar |
| 13:38:08 | [Saint] | it's easy to patch it by hand if you just open the .patch file with a text editor |
| 13:38:18 | [Saint] | it is only a one line change |
| 13:39:14 | [Saint] | the header will tell you the line number, and path. |
| 13:40:13 | [Saint] | Hmmm...until someone/whoever finds a better sollution...that should *probably* be committed to SVN |
| 13:40:14 | [Saint] | NAND panics are plaguing Nano2G users |
| 13:41:42 | mulenmar | Or change what the DEFAULT_STACK_SIZE is for the Nano 2G −− cleaner? I don't know. Just. . . thinking out loud. |
| 13:42:12 | [Saint] | that's what that is doing. |
| 13:42:29 | [Saint] | well, technically. |
| 13:42:32 | | Quit n1s (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 13:43:05 | [Saint] | DEFAULT_STACK_SIZE is used in more places than that, and, changing that would mean boosting stacks that don't need to be increased at all. |
| 13:43:08 | [Saint] | so, less clean. |
| 13:43:40 | mulenmar | Oh. Like I said, I don't know −− I barely know the barest beginnings of C++, let alone straight C. |
| 13:43:49 | soap | why is that patch on datafilehost.com and not rockbox.org? |
| 13:44:03 | [Saint] | I pulled it straight from my tree. |
| 13:44:08 | [Saint] | soap: |
| 13:44:12 | [Saint] | ^ |
| 13:44:34 | [Saint] | I rarely feel my solutions are good enough foe commit |
| 13:44:36 | soap | ok, that's an explanation, but not really a reason. |
| 13:44:38 | [Saint] | *for |
| 13:45:01 | gevaerts | Why isn't it on a pastebin then? :) |
| 13:45:16 | [Saint] | though, technically it *is* the solution...I don't like it. |
| 13:45:43 | [Saint] | boosting a stack *always* seems a kludge to me. |
| 13:46:04 | | Join Farthen [0] (~Farthen@static.225.178.40.188.clients.your-server.de) |
| 13:46:16 | soap | regardless of how commit ready it is - consolidating all rockbox "thoughts" in one place (patch tracker) aids everyone. |
| 13:46:25 | [Saint] | especially as there is no real explanation as to why it suddenly needed to be boosted, and, by so damn much |
| 13:46:31 | gevaerts | [Saint]: in this case the original assumptions became invalid though |
| 13:46:43 | mulenmar | Saint: Then comment it with a "this is a kludge" |
| 13:46:48 | mulenmar | ^_^ |
| 13:47:44 | [Saint] | well, it's technically the "correct" fix, but, I'd like to know *why* it is ;) |
| 13:47:44 | [Saint] | or, needs to be. |
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| 13:51:17 | | Join Jaykay_ [0] (~chatzilla@p5DC56E6E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:52:14 | soap | as a word of explanation, [Saint] |
| 13:52:33 | | Join _s1gma [0] (~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131) |
| 13:52:53 | * | JdGordon almost has "jump to letter" working in the lists on sdl |
| 13:52:54 | gevaerts | Actually, the original line is kind of buggy anyway |
| 13:53:01 | | Quit Jaykay (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 13:53:10 | * | [Saint] waits patiently |
| 13:53:12 | | Nick Jaykay_ is now known as Jaykay (~chatzilla@p5DC56E6E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:53:30 | soap | For a long time the iRiver players were amongst the most popular Rockbox devices, yet a large parallel community existed, including a significant amount of knowledge and "work" not just limited to themes and unofficial patches. |
| 13:54:02 | soap | When the iPod 5G and Nano 1G ports came about the same issue threatened to happen. |
| 13:54:30 | gevaerts | long[DEFAULT_STACK_SIZE] isn't the way DEFAULT_STACK_SIZE was meant. It's really meant to be in bytes, so to use it in an array of longs (which is sane, since it provides alignment), it should be DEFAULT_STACK_SIZE/sizeof(long) anyway |
| 13:54:40 | soap | That's why I've pushed so hard to get all "stuff" associated with Rockbox /somehow/ on rockbox.org. |
| 13:55:10 | soap | (to prevent community fragmentation) |
| 13:57:22 | * | [Saint] adds http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/11601 |
| 13:57:37 | JdGordon | I've got the sdl app now working that if you press 'a' on the keyboard it will move to the next line starting with 'a' (or A)... what should happen if none start with 'a'? |
| 14:00 |
| 14:00:05 | * | JdGordon doesnt know if that should just go to the next item or do nothing |
| 14:01:06 | * | [Saint] also adds http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/11602 |
| 14:02:30 | gevaerts | [Saint]: I'll add a comment as soon as I've managed to collect enough energy to look through my irc logs for the plae where I actually looked at what was on the stack |
| 14:03:13 | [Saint] | FS #11602 could almost certainly be done better, but FS #11601 would do better than the current code until someone a lot smarter than I finds a better sollution |
| 14:03:17 | | Join dfkt [0] (dfkt@unaffiliated/dfkt) |
| 14:05:57 | mulenmar | [Saint] Actually, there is already an open bug on the Stkov nand panic: FS #11433 |
| 14:06:23 | [Saint] | mulenmar: I am aware of that. |
| 14:06:28 | [Saint] | (sorry) |
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| 14:07:12 | mulenmar | I have no clue what the patch there means or what it does, but it's different. |
| 14:07:26 | [Saint] | just looking at that patch, it is almost certainly wrong. |
| 14:07:50 | [Saint] | It may well "fix" the issue, but, I doubt it is "correct" even more than I do mine |
| 14:07:50 | gevaerts | The FS #11433 patch is wrong |
| 14:08:03 | [Saint] | woo! comfirmation! |
| 14:08:13 | gevaerts | That's like curing a lung disease by removing the lungs |
| 14:08:15 | [Saint] | *confor...bah! |
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| 14:23:18 | preglow | what is the currently most popular rockbox device? :§ |
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| 14:25:52 | mulenmar | So defining which codecs to build would just involved editing apps/codecs/SOURCES, right? |
| 14:35:09 | preglow | JdGordon: you wouldn't happen to know how to access the d2 recording input mux? :> |
| 14:35:18 | JdGordon | not a clue |
| 14:35:23 | domonoky | preglow: difficult to measure. IF you go from the number of available themes, its sansa e200(v2) :-) |
| 14:35:24 | preglow | well shit |
| 14:35:26 | JdGordon | havnt done anything with its hardware |
| 14:35:44 | preglow | think i'll mail shoto |
| 14:39:38 | mulenmar | *involve |
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| 14:43:36 | gevaerts | Do inlined functions restore the stack after they finish? |
| 14:45:22 | JdGordon | if they are inlined why would they touch the stack? |
| 14:45:33 | | Quit stoffel (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 14:45:39 | JdGordon | i mean other than stack local vars... wouldnt params be in registers? |
| 14:45:51 | gevaerts | It's the local variables I'm worried about |
| 14:45:56 | gevaerts | They're *big* |
| 14:46:19 | JdGordon | only one way to find out :) |
| 14:46:43 | gevaerts | Or just declare it as noinline to make sure |
| 14:51:37 | gevaerts | S_a_i_n_t: can you (or other nano2g people) test my patch in FS #11433? |
| 14:51:49 | S_a_i_n_t | gevaerts: can indeed. |
| 14:57:20 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 14:57:45 | gevaerts | If it doesn't help, increase the stack size again and look at debug->OS stack to see how big the nand stack gets (preferably with *and* without the patch) |
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| 15:29:03 | mulenmar | Repeats: So defining which codecs to build would just involved editing apps/codecs/SOURCES, right? |
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| 15:36:34 | gevaerts | It should, yes |
| 15:36:40 | mulenmar | Thanks! |
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| 16:00 |
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| 16:10:50 | liar | mulenmar, [Saint]: FS #11604 implements lcd_sleep for the ipod nano2g |
| 16:11:08 | [Saint] | Hmmm, nice. |
| 16:11:10 | [Saint] | thanks. |
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| 16:23:08 | krabador | hi people , i had that http://pastebin.com/U3N0JHu1 making a scan to my sansa fuze v1 with testdisk |
| 16:23:15 | krabador | can you tell me something about? |
| 16:24:37 | gevaerts | krabador: what exactly are you trying to achieve with that? |
| 16:25:38 | krabador | gevaerts, some day ago , i upgraded my rockbox, i changed some theme, and later 2-3 times rockbox worked right, i had error at startup |
| 16:25:56 | krabador | then i reinstalled it |
| 16:26:33 | krabador | and i've done "fsck.vfat -wy /dev/sdb" to see something about |
| 16:27:32 | gevaerts | Something about what? |
| 16:27:44 | krabador | 've that "dosfsck 3.0.7, 24 Dec 2009, FAT32, LFN |
| 16:27:44 | krabador | 17:47 FATs differ but appear to be intact. Using first FAT. |
| 16:27:44 | krabador | 17:47Unable to create unique name" |
| 16:28:05 | krabador | gevaerts, something about status of fsystem |
| 16:28:29 | krabador | then i formatted my fuze with internal command in original firmware |
| 16:28:44 | krabador | and fsck.vfat give me that |
| 16:29:57 | | Join l403 [0] (~l@gw8.vslesy.cz) |
| 16:30:23 | krabador | FATs differ but appear to be intact. Using first FAT. |
| 16:30:23 | krabador | Performing changes. |
| 16:30:23 | krabador | /dev/sdb: 33 files, 6277/124417 clusters |
| 16:30:29 | | Join domonoky1 [0] (~Domonoky@agsb-d9bdb86a.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 16:31:07 | krabador | then i run tesdisk and later a deeper seach i god the log i posted |
| 16:31:26 | | Quit domonoky (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 16:32:06 | gevaerts | krabador: google seems to tell me that this is an issue in fsck.vfat. Try -r instead of -y |
| 16:32:58 | krabador | gevaerts, yes, but wht do you think about testdisk's warings? |
| 16:33:36 | gevaerts | krabador: there are no relevant warnings in there that I can see |
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| 16:57:24 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 17:00 |
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| 17:14:31 | funman | i'm going to commit the v4 patch on FS #11597 |
| 17:15:26 | funman | what i find strange is that the clipv1 draws 5mA less but the fuzev1 only 1mA less (with -/+ 1 rounding error) |
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| 17:29:04 | | Quit anewuser () |
| 17:29:17 | funman | mc2739: ping |
| 17:30:21 | funman | oops i was reading the config file for e200v1. the power saving on fuzev1/e200v2 is still quite less than on clipv1 |
| 17:32:25 | | Quit mulenmar (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 17:34:39 | CIA-81 | New commit by funman (r28000): FS #11597 : decrease FCLK frequency when unboosted ... |
| 17:35:02 | funman | nice revision number! |
| 17:35:38 | | Join Horscht [0] (~Horscht@xbmc/user/horscht) |
| 17:36:21 | CIA-81 | r28000 build result: All green |
| 17:39:51 | pamaury | gevaerts: did you have a look at my patch for simulator storage |
| 17:39:52 | pamaury | ? |
| 17:40:18 | gevaerts | Ah, no, not yet |
| 17:40:47 | bluebroth3r | gevaerts: are vendor and product strings of USB devices always UTF-8? |
| 17:40:56 | | Join MethoS- [0] (~clemens@134.102.106.250) |
| 17:41:17 | gevaerts | no, they're 16 bit unicode |
| 17:41:36 | bluebroth3r | hmm, ok. Seems I need to change my code then :/ |
| 17:41:50 | * | bluebroth3r was under the impression its always UTF-8 |
| 17:42:15 | gevaerts | Maybe libusb gives them to you as utf8 though |
| 17:42:20 | | Quit krabador (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 17:43:05 | bluebroth3r | libusb wouldn't make a difference here. I'm trying to get rid of libusb :) (on OS X that is) |
| 17:47:42 | bluebroth3r | ah, missed that. CFStringGetBytes converts them for me, so I only need to convert to something Qt can use |
| 17:48:03 | | Join mulenmar [0] (~mulenmar@74-132-43-158.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 17:49:00 | mulenmar | liar, your patch in FS #11604 works, no issues so far. When the backlight shuts off, the LCD turns off in 4 seconds for me. |
| 17:49:16 | mulenmar | LCD: type: 1, (7) LDS176 |
| 17:49:52 | liar | 4 seconds after the backlight turns of? |
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| 17:50:39 | liar | i dont think thats a problem with my patch :) |
| 17:50:47 | liar | but it works with type 7 lcds, thats good |
| 17:51:10 | mulenmar | Yes, although I'm just counting one-Mississippi, two-Mississippi |
| 17:51:11 | liar | mulenmar: thanks for testing |
| 17:51:31 | mulenmar | liar: No problem, this was one I've been waiting on for a while. 8~) |
| 17:51:31 | * | gevaerts wonders if anyone is testing his stack patch |
| 17:51:52 | * | liar hasnt seen any nand stkovs yet |
| 17:52:09 | liar | but i was using a very old rockbox build until now |
| 17:52:27 | [Saint] | liar: do you have an 8GB Nano2G by chance? |
| 17:52:43 | liar | yes but its totaly broken |
| 17:52:56 | [Saint] | oh..so, not the one you're using now? |
| 17:53:23 | [Saint] | TheSeven can't reproduce stack issues either, and, the fact it is 8Gb seems the only difference |
| 17:53:36 | liar | i've got a 4GB one now |
| 17:53:43 | [Saint] | I'm plagued by them, on 2 and 4Gb |
| 17:53:56 | TheSeven | [Saint]: we have a suspicion what's happening at least |
| 17:54:10 | [Saint] | TheSeven: Really? |
| 17:54:17 | gevaerts | If you get to fat_rename() or fat_mkdir() from a storage idle task (which I suspect happens), it's not actually possible to *not* get a stack overflow with svn |
| 17:54:43 | TheSeven | and it probably isn't related to the storage size, rather other factors like how the partition is formatted and how many directory entries are in .rockbox |
| 17:54:59 | [Saint] | Hmmm. |
| 17:55:15 | mulenmar | I'm using [Saint]'s patch (FS #11601) and it works fine. |
| 17:55:22 | TheSeven | gevaerts: which patch? |
| 17:55:28 | [Saint] | all mine are "as it comes" from an iTunes reformat. |
| 17:55:43 | gevaerts | TheSeven: I added one to FS #11433 |
| 17:55:58 | mulenmar | Mine's an iPod Nano2G with 2GB of storage. |
| 17:56:31 | mulenmar | I'll redownload the SVN tree to another directory and try gevaert's patch against it, though. |
| 17:57:01 | [Saint] | redownload? seems a little unnecessary...just svn revert |
| 17:57:25 | [Saint] | you already have a patched build (with my patch) just ROLO between them. |
| 17:57:43 | liar | TheSeven: please also have a look at FS #11604 when you've got time, i think there are just style improvements needed, the rest seems to be fine |
| 17:59:10 | mulenmar | [Saint] I've got my own "configuration" changes I'm trying out in that tree with your patch (actually, I hand-edited that one) anyway, I'd rather test against a vanilla tree. ;~) |
| 17:59:49 | [Saint] | gevaerts: I'll build with your patch now, but, it will take some time to tell whether or not is as as stable as increasing the stack, and, probably impossible to tell if it is any better than...as I have had no NAND panics since increasing the stack, so, perfect results. |
| 17:59:54 | gevaerts | hm, I don't see mkdir or rename in the plaves I'd expect... |
| 18:00 |
| 18:00:01 | TheSeven | liar: urgh... that asm code should really go away |
| 18:00:19 | TheSeven | and the init can probably be done more efficiently using a table |
| 18:00:53 | liar | like in norloader? |
| 18:01:32 | TheSeven | roughly like that, just in C :) |
| 18:02:01 | TheSeven | IIUC this is turned on by default and can't be disabled without recompiling? |
| 18:02:30 | * | gevaerts investigates more |
| 18:02:34 | liar | i think thats the way it works for other targets too |
| 18:02:38 | [Saint] | TheSeven: liar: I would *really* like a config option, and a menu entry for this. |
| 18:03:02 | TheSeven | yes. i probably wouldn't want to use it on mine |
| 18:03:03 | [Saint] | s/this/LCD sleep/ |
| 18:03:12 | TheSeven | does it even save significant amounts of power? |
| 18:03:18 | funman | mulenmar: you don't need to download the svn repo twice |
| 18:03:30 | funman | just use cp -r and then svn revert . -R in the new directory |
| 18:04:03 | liar | iirc 1 to 2mA |
| 18:04:44 | * | TheSeven often looks at the lcd to read the name of a track with the hold switch on, backlight off |
| 18:05:09 | TheSeven | have you tried switching the lcd to low power mode? |
| 18:05:23 | gevaerts | [Saint]: ignore my patch. I think it's useful, but there are more bits in fat.c that are better at explaining the issue |
| 18:05:32 | liar | i think i did that but thats a long time ago |
| 18:05:33 | mulenmar | funman: Would that still work, since I hand-edited a file instead of using patch? |
| 18:05:39 | * | mulenmar is a newb |
| 18:05:48 | TheSeven | this will reduce the color depth to 8 bits, but that's fine as long as the backlight is off, and it should use next-to-no power |
| 18:06:13 | funman | mulenmar: sure |
| 18:06:13 | TheSeven | mulenmar: of course |
| 18:06:19 | mulenmar | Oh. |
| 18:07:01 | TheSeven | there's always a copy of the so-called "working base" files (the "clean" revision the working copy is based at) in the .svn directories |
| 18:07:19 | TheSeven | svn revert will use that to remove all changes |
| 18:08:21 | TheSeven | gevaerts: what's your suspicion? any other on-stack sector buffers that are allocated during a call to update_bpb? |
| 18:09:06 | gevaerts | TheSeven: I'm still looking, but it looks like there's a chain that allocates two on-stack sector buffers when creating a file |
| 18:11:49 | * | TheSeven still wonders why it doesn't happen for him |
| 18:12:10 | * | [Saint] blames bagic |
| 18:12:42 | * | bluebroth3r curses OS X |
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| 18:22:03 | balintx | re |
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| 18:25:29 | bohwaz | Llorean: about FS #11603 maybe it would be possible for the plugin to ask if you want to stop playing if there is not enough memory left? |
| 18:26:37 | Llorean | bohwaz: Why can't the user stop playback? |
| 18:26:58 | Llorean | It would be possible for the plugin to do this, and you could write a patch and submit it, I'm sure. |
| 18:27:23 | funman | i'll try a clipv1 benchmark with pclk (and unboosted cpu clock) halved to 31MHz, after that i'm out of ideas to reduce power usage |
| 18:27:37 | bohwaz | Llorean: because in most cases you won't figure that "not enough memory" means that you must stop playback, it took me some time to figure out |
| 18:27:59 | Llorean | That doesn't make it a bug, though. |
| 18:28:16 | bohwaz | and btw i didn't find a way to stop playback on my fuze except to play a video |
| 18:28:35 | * | Llorean suggests reading the manual for basic controls |
| 18:28:50 | Llorean | I don't own a Fuze, but all Rockbox targets have a stop function, or at least should. If it's missing, *that* should be considered a bug. |
| 18:29:13 | bohwaz | yeah I just think I didn't find out how to do it for now |
| 18:30:07 | gevaerts | bohwaz: in that case, maybe the message should just be changed? |
| 18:30:55 | bohwaz | gevaerts: I think it should be changed and it should ask if you want to stop playback so that you can play the game, so it'll be easier |
| 18:32:22 | bohwaz | oh right i found the stop command thanks Llorean |
| 18:35:17 | | Join Jerom [0] (~jerome@95.171.131.249) |
| 18:38:59 | mulenmar | gevaerts: Sorry, your fat_stack.diff patch doesn't do the trick −− not all the time, anyway. I forced Rockbox to write to disk (set a high score in Bubble), and then got a Stkov nand panic. |
| 18:39:47 | [Saint] | [Saint] 1, gevaerts 0 ;) |
| 18:40:20 | mulenmar | The score was there when I reset, but I can't be sure if that's because it got written before the panic or if emBIOS fixed it, since I'm also using iLoader. |
| 18:41:46 | TheSeven | emBIOS can only fix things that were written to disk |
| 18:41:55 | TheSeven | it won't clean up file system problems, just at the ftl level |
| 18:42:11 | mulenmar | Huh. Weirdness. |
| 18:42:39 | gevaerts | That score save wouldn't be from the nand thread anyway |
| 18:42:54 | | Quit funman (Quit: free(random());) |
| 18:43:05 | mulenmar | Oh. What would be a good way to test it then? |
| 18:43:34 | [Saint] | try using screendump |
| 18:43:34 | gevaerts | just use it. It crashed, that's "good" enough |
| 18:43:46 | [Saint] | that *always* panics Nano2G in SVN IIRC |
| 18:44:04 | gevaerts | [Saint]: with a *nand* Stkov? |
| 18:44:12 | TheSeven | the reason for the panic is that something tries to save settings, the playlist control file, or whatever, from a callback, that's called when the nand chip is still powered on, but idle and about to power down |
| 18:44:13 | [Saint] | I believe so, yes. |
| 18:44:48 | TheSeven | but that's probably another reason |
| 18:44:49 | [Saint] | gevaerts: ^ |
| 18:44:55 | gevaerts | Yes, exactly. Writing does trigger the issue, but doesn't absolutely cause it |
| 18:45:05 | [Saint] | I have no device near, nor cable, to test that though |
| 18:45:17 | * | gevaerts is now looking at call graphs for fat.c |
| 18:45:23 | TheSeven | the screendump one is probably caused by screendump itself placing a rather huge buffer on the stack, in addition to the fat buffers |
| 18:45:53 | gevaerts | mulenmar: can you test that screendump issue? |
| 18:45:56 | TheSeven | but that was the usb stack, not the nand one |
| 18:46:08 | TheSeven | gevaerts: i can reproduce that one myself |
| 18:46:11 | gevaerts | ok |
| 18:46:13 | TheSeven | (at least some time ago) |
| 18:46:14 | mulenmar | One moment, I'm updating iLoader because of another issue |
| 18:46:28 | TheSeven | mulenmar: did you manage to compile it yourself in the meantime? |
| 18:46:57 | [Saint] | TheSeven: still panics for me (screendump), or...did before I raised the stack...no idea now. |
| 18:47:10 | gevaerts | TheSeven: the worst I see (with svn) is three sector buffers on the stack... |
| 18:47:14 | [Saint] | can't recall if it is Stkov NAND or Stkov USB though |
| 18:47:19 | mulenmar | TheSeven: No, just wget'ed the installer-nano2g.bin file off freemyipod. |
| 18:48:10 | TheSeven | gevaerts: two are sufficient to make it explode |
| 18:48:17 | mulenmar | Anyway, about the screendump −− I just went to Debug -> Screendump, and it enabled just fine. No panic yet. |
| 18:48:32 | gevaerts | right, the USB thread doesn't have enough stack to create a file |
| 18:48:36 | TheSeven | mulenmar: now plug the usb cable |
| 18:48:56 | mulenmar | BINGO |
| 18:48:59 | TheSeven | gevaerts: neither does the nand stack |
| 18:49:03 | gevaerts | mulenmar: usb? |
| 18:49:06 | mulenmar | *PANIC* Stkov usb |
| 18:49:10 | [Saint] | NAND or USB Stkov? |
| 18:49:19 | [Saint] | ah...oops, sorry guys |
| 18:49:20 | gevaerts | ok, as predicted |
| 18:49:35 | mulenmar | This is different from the other panic, though, which was Stkov nand. |
| 18:49:44 | gevaerts | fat_create_file gets two buffers |
| 18:50:27 | mulenmar | I'm going to try the other build now, the one with [Saint]'s patch, and see if this panic still happens with the larger stack. |
| 18:50:38 | [Saint] | it will. |
| 18:51:32 | [Saint] | USB stuff is black magic to me...I'm not touching it with a 10' pole |
| 18:51:40 | gevaerts | TheSeven: I don't think it's realistic to reduce fat to *no* sector buffers at all, but I think I can get it to one, with the possible exception of fat_mount() |
| 18:52:03 | TheSeven | that would be a huge step forward at least |
| 18:52:06 | gevaerts | It will indeed. [Saint]'s patch doesn't touch the USB stack |
| 18:52:14 | TheSeven | and honestly i'd like that one to be static instead of on-stack |
| 18:52:17 | mulenmar | Yep, [Saint], you're right the Stkov usb panic still happens. |
| 18:52:20 | TheSeven | that would need a bit of locking of course |
| 18:52:42 | gevaerts | Oh, indeed, but that's more work |
| 18:52:53 | | Join h3po [0] (~h3po@p4FDEBFF5.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:52:53 | TheSeven | i have proof of concept code for that in embios |
| 18:52:58 | [Saint] | mulenmar: as expected...I ignore that issue as I only know one way to trigger it, which I never use ;) |
| 18:53:17 | TheSeven | gevaerts: http://websvn.freemyipod.org/filedetails.php?repname=freemyipod&path=%2Fembios%2Ftrunk%2Ffat.c |
| 18:53:51 | | Quit h3po (Client Quit) |
| 18:53:53 | TheSeven | this also locks fat cache entries, and seems to run fine even with a preemptive scheduler |
| 18:53:56 | * | [Saint] lols at "Fembios", emBIOS for girls? ;) |
| 18:55:32 | * | mulenmar is not amused |
| 18:55:36 | bluebroth3r | aaaaah! |
| 18:55:51 | bluebroth3r | Mac crashed, current work lost :( |
| 18:56:09 | * | TheSeven shoves [Saint] and mulenmar into #rockbox-community |
| 18:57:09 | | Quit l403 (Quit: Ex-Chat) |
| 18:57:26 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 18:58:17 | krabador | hi people, my sansa fuzev1 had the original firmware 01.02.26F an the last rockbox build, r28000-100905. I decided to upgrade the OF to 01.02.31 , i downloaded it, i patched it with bootloader, and i upgraded. Now when i plug the usb cable, at fuze off, it runs rockbox, and not the os, but usb mode are unstable |
| 18:59:41 | krabador | i controlled that msc mode are on, on original firmware, and it's all right |
| 19:00 |
| 19:02:47 | bluebroth3r | krabador: not sure if that behaviour changed, but it sounds like you need to boot into the OF before connecting USB |
| 19:03:03 | krabador | Ubuntu os, and windows don'r recognize the reader |
| 19:04:01 | krabador | bluebroth3r, yes, if i run the OF, all right, but before upgradind the OF with the newest, and the newest bootloader, with 01.02.26F and r28000-100905 |
| 19:04:18 | krabador | when i plug the cable, i run the OF |
| 19:06:51 | bluebroth3r | well, afaics the bootloader for the fuzev1 has been updated recently. So it's not surprising that it behaves differently now. |
| 19:06:55 | gevaerts | mulenmar: do you feel like testing my new patch from FS #11433 ? If that one doesn't fix the issues, I really don't know |
| 19:07:33 | krabador | the problem isn't properly i don't run OF when i plug the reader, i've an instable rockbox usb mode, |
| 19:08:15 | krabador | now i've *PANIC* usb_drv_send: GSC, but len!=0 |
| 19:13:39 | gevaerts | krabador: is HID enabled? |
| 19:13:48 | krabador | gevaerts, HID? |
| 19:13:59 | * | gevaerts can't remember if that's enabled by default these days or nog |
| 19:14:02 | gevaerts | *not |
| 19:14:11 | [Saint] | gevaerts: it is, yes...IIRC |
| 19:14:22 | [Saint] | only disabled on Nan02G |
| 19:14:28 | [Saint] | *Nano |
| 19:14:43 | TheSeven | ...also one thing one should try to enable again... |
| 19:15:14 | TheSeven | it might have been fixed by one of the latest commits to the usb driver |
| 19:15:19 | [Saint] | indeed. |
| 19:15:58 | [Saint] | I've thought briefly about giving it a go a few times while I've been snooping in the source, but, if I'm in there I'm generally on another plight...and forget. |
| 19:16:09 | [Saint] | It may have magically fixed itself, even. |
| 19:16:20 | | Quit bohwaz (Quit: leaving) |
| 19:16:25 | gevaerts | krabador: Settings->General Settings->System->USB HID |
| 19:16:27 | krabador | gevaerts, yes, it was enabled |
| 19:16:32 | gevaerts | Try disabling it |
| 19:16:37 | krabador | ok |
| 19:17:04 | krabador | now i turn off, and i plug the cable |
| 19:17:30 | krabador | it runs rockbox without usb mode |
| 19:17:58 | krabador | but sometimes i look the usb plug screen... |
| 19:18:37 | krabador | my system try to open the fuze folder |
| 19:18:40 | krabador | but it can't |
| 19:19:14 | krabador | i've an instable usb mode, the same. |
| 19:20:32 | krabador | i've rockbox menu for a little, usb mode until ubuntu recognise the reader for 2 seconds |
| 19:20:37 | | Join anewuser [0] (anewuser@unaffiliated/anewuser) |
| 19:20:49 | krabador | again the menu, all that at loop |
| 19:21:26 | | Join l403 [0] (~l@gw8.vslesy.cz) |
| 19:23:18 | krabador | i taked it plugged for 5 minutes without have the panic |
| 19:23:18 | | Join h3po [0] (~h3po@p4FDEBFF5.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:24:52 | krabador | where i can download previous daily? |
| 19:25:47 | krabador | with the daily of 3 september, when i run rockbox, and i plug the cable, i had a stable usb mode |
| 19:26:03 | krabador | i used the multimedia mode |
| 19:26:09 | krabador | wothout problems |
| 19:27:46 | | Quit h3po (Client Quit) |
| 19:32:05 | | Quit krabador (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 19:33:29 | | Join krabador [0] (~krabador@host129-54-dynamic.244-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 19:34:47 | | Quit JdGordon (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 19:36:09 | amiconn | preglow: If the D2 has problems since eabi, look for delay loops in D2 specific code. The (newer) eabi gcc likes to optimize those away :\ |
| 19:39:37 | krabador | i installed the 3.6, i shut down my fuze, and i plugged the cable, now, rockbox restart at loop |
| 19:41:55 | gevaerts | Doesn't 3.6 reboot to the OF for USB? |
| 19:42:09 | gevaerts | And new bootloaders don't |
| 19:42:31 | [Saint] | correct |
| 19:43:01 | pixelma | preglow: you might be interested in the latest post by shotofadds in the new ports forum D2 thread |
| 19:43:18 | krabador | gevaerts, the 3.6 , with 01.02.31F and the newest bootloader, runs at loop if usb cable plugged |
| 19:43:23 | | Quit Jerom (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 19:43:35 | krabador | i need the previous bootloader |
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| 19:50:07 | | Join fdinel [0] (~Miranda@modemcable235.127-131-66.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 19:54:09 | krabador | now i tried the 20100903, and 20100904, the same, but 04, have the screen flipping |
| 19:55:26 | krabador | it's strange, before, upgrading the 01.02.26F with the old bootloader, when i plug the cable at rockbox on, the HID features worked without problem |
| 19:57:21 | krabador | i seen in the bootloader folder at download.rockbox.org and it have only the last, where i can find the previous bootloader? |
| 19:57:40 | [Saint] | SVN? |
| 19:58:00 | [Saint] | Building is really trivial, once an environment is set up |
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| 20:00 |
| 20:00:16 | | Join Jerom [0] (~jerome@95.171.131.249) |
| 20:03:13 | | Quit mikroflops (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 20:04:28 | | Join mikroflops [0] (~yogurt@90-230-97-182-no112.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 20:05:10 | krabador | [Saint], no previous sansa bootloader in download.rockbox.com |
| 20:05:41 | [Saint] | krabador: I know, I'm saying "build it yourself from source" |
| 20:05:48 | [Saint] | it's the only way you'll get it. |
| 20:05:59 | mulenmar | It really is quite easy. |
| 20:06:10 | | Join likemindead [0] (~Xmccracke@71.21.16.58) |
| 20:06:17 | mulenmar | Building the toolchain is all automatic, and the directions in the wiki work perfectly. |
| 20:06:36 | [Saint] | assuming you're using *nix |
| 20:06:42 | krabador | [yes |
| 20:06:48 | [Saint] | CygWin direction will just annoy the hell out of you. |
| 20:06:48 | krabador | forgive me |
| 20:07:04 | krabador | i don't find svn in the site... |
| 20:07:19 | [Saint] | well, there's your problem. |
| 20:07:31 | [Saint] | it isn't there...so, I don't expect you'd find it. |
| 20:08:04 | mulenmar | *sigh* |
| 20:08:36 | mulenmar | Maybe this'll actually be helpful, krabador: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/LinuxSimpleGuideToCompiling |
| 20:10:24 | krabador | mulenmar, yes, all right |
| 20:10:52 | | Quit Zarggg (Quit: Zarggg) |
| 20:17:37 | | Join eclectic [0] (~bill@pool-72-81-182-171.bltmmd.east.verizon.net) |
| 20:19:27 | CIA-81 | New commit by bluebrother (r28001): Implement USB VID / PID retrieval using IOKit on OS X. ... |
| 20:20:28 | | Join saratoga [0] (463f90ed@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.63.144.237) |
| 20:21:16 | CIA-81 | r28001 build result: All green |
| 20:21:44 | | Quit robin0800 (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 20:24:42 | | Join [sko]1 [0] (~sko]@p57A99529.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:26:19 | | Quit krabador (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 20:27:08 | | Quit [sko] (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 20:36:58 | | Join funman [0] (~fun@rockbox/developer/funman) |
| 20:37:45 | funman | krabador: if you want to use OF USB just press the left key to boot OF, no need to bother with building/upgrading/whatever |
| 20:37:58 | saratoga | funman: did you have some idea what chip the fuze+ is using? |
| 20:38:39 | funman | FS #11605 - Clip+ new keymap |
| 20:38:45 | funman | saratoga: sigmatel something |
| 20:39:15 | funman | there's a 'STMP' somewhere in the beginning of OF update file and it has a .sb extension like some other sigmatel based players |
| 20:40:28 | | Join krabador [0] (~krabador@host129-54-dynamic.244-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 20:40:35 | saratoga | wikipedia says the old sigmatel line was discontinued, so its probably some iMX variant like the beast |
| 20:40:52 | saratoga | by "probably" i mean "possibly" |
| 20:41:45 | | Part likemindead ("OBEY.") |
| 20:41:52 | mc2739 | funman: pong (from 3hrs ago) |
| 20:43:04 | saratoga | " Freescale's i.MX2 ARM9 and i.MX3 ARM11 based multimedia SOCs product line have been integrated with the STMP product line resulting in a strong portable multimedia product portfolio." |
| 20:43:22 | saratoga | http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=i.MX27 |
| 20:43:37 | saratoga | ARM9E+H.264 decoder sounds about right |
| 20:44:31 | funman | mc2739: i just wanted to confirm that the battery savings with r28000 are quite small on your e200v2 |
| 20:45:08 | mc2739 | yes, they were with the v4 patch |
| 20:45:30 | funman | saratoga: it looks like the firmware is compressed/obfuscated somehow; the wiki has some links to work with .sb files but apparently the software only works with a connected player |
| 20:45:57 | mc2739 | I'll run another battry_bench if you need me to |
| 20:46:45 | funman | i don't know what else we could do except reduce PCLK or boosted FCLK |
| 20:48:34 | mc2739 | funman: what was wrong with the v2 patch? |
| 20:49:46 | funman | PCLK was based on FCLK so when we divided FCLK by 4, PCLK was 15.5MHz -> slow LCD & scrollwheel |
| 20:50:05 | saratoga | they've got instructions and source code for compiling linux for these chips, so theres probably a linker for .sb somewhere in the GBs worth of docs on the freescale site |
| 20:50:55 | funman | mc2739: i'm trying clipv1 build with pclk & unboosted fclk halved, but i think it won't be nice on fuzev1/e200v2 |
| 20:54:19 | funman | apparently there's a binary-only "elftosb", although i found a link to a .tgz but it's 404 |
| 20:55:05 | funman | http://web.archiveorange.com/archive/v/zE6LZb7yhXvuyE5Lg3gj |
| 20:56:09 | funman | oh casainho & friends worked with this |
| 20:57:22 | * | pamaury see elftosb and thinks about stmp, any link ? |
| 20:57:27 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 20:57:39 | funman | pamaury: yeah, any link ? |
| 20:57:45 | amiconn | [Saint]: Umm, rockboxdev.sh does work on cygwin the same way it does on *nix. It just takes more time on comparable hardware |
| 20:58:04 | funman | http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=6751.645 <- casainho has the tool |
| 20:58:05 | preglow | pixelma: thanks |
| 20:58:10 | preglow | that is indeed interesting |
| 20:58:58 | [Saint] | amiconn: I don't recall saying it didn't. |
| 20:59:07 | [Saint] | In fact, I know I didn't. |
| 20:59:23 | [Saint] | what I meant is all the other pointless crap the CygWin wiki tells you to do. |
| 20:59:23 | pamaury | iirc, when I work on a mp3 player from sigmatel, I rewrote a converter from a binary format to sb I think. SB format is a mixture you send to the SoC to write in memory |
| 21:00 |
| 21:00:08 | [Saint] | modify $PATH, old cross compilers that'll do no good, etc. |
| 21:00:12 | funman | pamaury: do you know how to go the other route? sb -> elf |
| 21:01:04 | funman | http://files.chumby.com/source/falconwing/bootloader/elftosb2;name=elftosb2 |
| 21:01:33 | pamaury | the problem iirc is that sb is encrypted. The encryption scheme on my sigmatel one was trivial. Going is other around might be difficult. sb doesn't have all the information from elf I think |
| 21:01:53 | funman | elf or something else, and apparently encryption is not mandatory |
| 21:02:23 | funman | http://lyre.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/lyre/propendous-imx233_board/firmware/Creating_boot_image.txt?revision=28&view=markup talks about i.MX23 & elftosb2 |
| 21:02:30 | pamaury | yes I had a tool to go from decrypted sb to bin, you need to look in the datasheet for the format, check if it's the same |
| 21:02:43 | funman | which datasheet? |
| 21:03:20 | pamaury | what is the SoC you're talking about ? Finding the datasheet of the one I'm talking about is difficult but I have it |
| 21:03:28 | funman | no idea |
| 21:04:18 | pamaury | the one I'm talking about is stmp35xx |
| 21:05:11 | funman | http://anythingbutipod.com/2010/09/the-most-disappointing-sansa-fuze-unboxing-ever/ <- perhaps we'll know when there's a fuze+ disassembly on ABI |
| 21:06:41 | pamaury | there is a fuze+ ? based on an stmp ? |
| 21:08:17 | | Quit poopie75656 (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 21:09:30 | saratoga | hahaha that review |
| 21:13:39 | funman | btw i asked if sandisk want to sponsor a fuze+ on their forums |
| 21:15:17 | saratoga | the 3500, 3600 and 3700 all look like they do mostly software decoding of video with just a little help from hardware for things like colorspace and scaling, so they're probably not used on the fuze+ if it can do H.264 |
| 21:15:38 | saratoga | although i guess this could be a custom variant |
| 21:16:01 | funman | slotmonsta posted the codec specs on sansa forums |
| 21:16:44 | funman | H264 baseline level 2.0 30fps 1000kbps 320x240 and AAC-LC stereo 192kbps |
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| 21:19:47 | dfkt | 1000kbps is rather insane for that size |
| 21:21:08 | | Quit stoffel (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 21:25:30 | funman | perhaps it's the higher limit? |
| 21:26:08 | Llorean | You'd want it to be able to handle the peaks in a VBR file without skipping, I'd imagine, so the higher the maximum the better just over all. |
| 21:26:42 | | Quit GeekShadow (Quit: The cake is a lie !) |
| 21:27:24 | funman | Llorean: it's for video |
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| 21:29:00 | Llorean | I got that. You said h.264 right? |
| 21:30:36 | | Quit krabador (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 21:33:49 | | Quit leavittx (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 21:38:12 | funman | yes i mean for video there's no 'bitrate per frame' like audio, especially if you consider key-frames |
| 21:39:06 | soap | +seen linuxstb |
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| 21:44:49 | krabador | will be great a fix on linux boxes... |
| 21:44:54 | krabador | >( |
| 21:44:59 | krabador | :) |
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| 21:54:00 | cheers_ | does anyone know if someone has attempted to make a theme for rockbox that attempts to closely emulate the native ipod (in my case, video 30gb) theme? |
| 21:54:40 | [Saint] | cheers_: that would be me. |
| 21:55:11 | [Saint] | I can hand you a "no promises, it is how it is..." testing version. |
| 21:55:25 | cheers_ | that would be amazing |
| 21:55:34 | cheers_ | are you still working on it? |
| 21:55:37 | [Saint] | One min. |
| 21:55:54 | [Saint] | Yeah, still doing a bit on it...but, things keep getting in the way. |
| 21:55:59 | cheers_ | i've never skinned anything before but i can't see it being too difficult (famous last words!) |
| 21:56:00 | [Saint] | it's very usable, though. |
| 21:56:12 | cheers_ | :D |
| 21:56:36 | cheers_ | i was looking into, as a first step, getting Lucida Grande converted so i could use it |
| 21:58:04 | [Saint] | http://www.datafilehost.com/download-1cf406cc.html |
| 21:58:10 | [Saint] | cheers_: ^ |
| 21:59:10 | cheers_ | thanks trying now |
| 22:00 |
| 22:01:17 | cheers_ | amazing! |
| 22:01:30 | [Saint] | thanks. |
| 22:02:08 | [Saint] | You're the..second(?) person to run that on a real device. |
| 22:02:25 | [Saint] | yes, second. |
| 22:02:47 | [Saint] | I haven't considered it ready for the themesite yet. |
| 22:03:34 | cheers_ | in terms of the font, is there a rockbox limitation that won't allow you to use the lucida grande font with antialiasing? |
| 22:03:52 | cheers_ | or a similar nice font, droid sans or such |
| 22:04:16 | [Saint] | there is a limitation that won't allow *any* aliased font. |
| 22:04:40 | [Saint] | the limitation being, it has not been implemented in a mannor deemed commitable |
| 22:05:14 | cheers_ | i seen a patch from '08 in a quick search there, is it possible to include an unofficial patch to get it working? |
| 22:05:49 | [Saint] | and, I'm not quite up to the effort of maintaining an unsupported build with aliased fonts for a target I don't own...maybe one day. |
| 22:06:31 | [Saint] | you'd need to do a fair bit of work modifying the viewport dimensions, but, it is possible. Yes. |
| 22:06:42 | [Saint] | re: adding aliased fonts ^ |
| 22:07:01 | cheers_ | aha |
| 22:07:44 | [Saint] | it isn't *quite* the Apple OF, but, close enough to fool the naked eye at a glance |
| 22:08:14 | [Saint] | "fool your friends, amaze the naive...try iLike today!" :D |
| 22:08:42 | cheers_ | catchy ;) |
| 22:09:29 | [Saint] | the only thing the .wps doesn't do is the "volume bar coming flying in from the side" thing. |
| 22:09:49 | [Saint] | it is possible to do, but, not fast enough to do ina way that doesn't look crap. |
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| 22:10:04 | cheers_ | hardly a deal breaker |
| 22:10:16 | [Saint] | :) |
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| 22:10:33 | cheers_ | is album art in this build? the process of adding art wasn't friendly with Amarok when i was using it to load stuff onto my ipod before |
| 22:10:48 | * | bluebroth3r prefers volume bars to not fly around :) |
| 22:10:49 | [Saint] | it supports AA, yes. |
| 22:10:58 | cheers_ | would be nice if there was a linux tool for scanning my device and grabbing the album art from amazon |
| 22:11:22 | [Saint] | cheers_: there *is*...I *think* |
| 22:11:26 | | Join ehntoo_ [0] (~ehntoo@lug.mtu.edu) |
| 22:11:38 | cheers_ | neato :) |
| 22:11:55 | [Saint] | there's one that'll pull embeded AA from your iPod database. |
| 22:12:06 | | Join domonoky [0] (~Domonoky@rockbox/developer/domonoky) |
| 22:12:21 | cheers_ | i'm kind of getting around to using my rockbox ipod properly, ordered a new battery yesterday as this one decides occasionally to drain flat after 30 minutes |
| 22:13:23 | [Saint] | cheers_: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/AlbumArt#Useful_tools |
| 22:13:56 | cheers_ | i ripped/reencoded everything using EAC -> oggenc -> cd-tag (windows program) and i don't think it was smart enough to do any of that - amarok was able to load the album in and then get the album art and save in ~/.amarok/art/ or similar but i don't think it embedded it sadly |
| 22:14:21 | | Quit Dreamxtreme (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 22:14:41 | [Saint] | there's at least two tools (depending on your OS) that do what you want on the paage I just linked |
| 22:14:48 | [Saint] | *page |
| 22:15:01 | cheers_ | :D |
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| 22:28:05 | Horscht | hm... can someone tell me what is wrong with my wps file? it works fine on r27486-100718, but not on more recent builds. |
| 22:28:16 | Horscht | this is the wps code: http://pastebin.ca/1933892 |
| 22:28:34 | [Saint] | I'll have a look, no promises though. |
| 22:28:44 | [Saint] | what doesn't work? |
| 22:29:20 | Horscht | it doesn't load at all |
| 22:29:29 | Horscht | i get the default wps |
| 22:29:53 | [Saint] | Ok, gimme a minute |
| 22:30:35 | [Saint] | line 35 |
| 22:30:42 | [Saint] | %ac%bt% |
| 22:30:47 | [Saint] | you want: |
| 22:30:51 | [Saint] | %ac%bt%% |
| 22:31:18 | Horscht | i think i want that last % omitted... |
| 22:31:26 | [Saint] | Nope. |
| 22:31:30 | Horscht | bt shows battery time, not percentage, does it? |
| 22:31:31 | AlexP | You need to escape the % sign |
| 22:31:40 | AlexP | So you need either "" or "%%" :) |
| 22:31:45 | [Saint] | you need to escape it with another % to make it display as "%" |
| 22:31:49 | Horscht | as in: i don't even want a % sign there :) |
| 22:31:57 | [Saint] | oh...right. |
| 22:31:58 | AlexP | so no %s at all then :) |
| 22:32:13 | AlexP | one % is wrong either way :) |
| 22:32:21 | Horscht | hm... I wonder why that worked on r27486, though :D |
| 22:32:26 | [Saint] | silly AlexP, %s is "scroll" ;) |
| 22:32:45 | Horscht | but yeah, it's an obvious small detail. |
| 22:32:46 | AlexP | yes, that could have been confusing :) |
| 22:32:55 | [Saint] | Horscht: No idea...it definitely shouldn't have |
| 22:33:12 | [Saint] | It should have expected a tag, and failed when it didn't find one. |
| 22:33:37 | [Saint] | s/tag/char to escape/ |
| 22:35:05 | Horscht | i will give it a shot, hopefully that's the only problem :) |
| 22:35:14 | Horscht | btw, it's impressive how fast you found that |
| 22:35:33 | [Saint] | Horscht: Only syntax problem...anything else would be failing to load an object |
| 22:35:41 | [Saint] | bitmap/font/etc./ |
| 22:36:45 | Horscht | and yes. now it works |
| 22:36:59 | Horscht | shows how much 2 bytes can screw up everything |
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| 22:47:21 | [Saint] | mulenmar: since you mentioned the lamp "improvements" (still not sure thats the right word for it), thoughts? |
| 22:48:29 | mulenmar | [Saint] I'm still doing some comparisions between vanilla and with FS #11578, but the ability to control just how bright a light to shine −− while still defaulting to max −− is very helpful. |
| 22:50:11 | | Quit Evilnick_ (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 22:53:13 | [Saint] | mulenmar: colours...pracitcal? useful at all? or gimmick? |
| 22:55:12 | * | [Saint] sees he invented the colour "vielet," on the tracker |
| 22:55:27 | mulenmar | [Saint] I can see how it can be useful in some situations, but it isn't useful for me. |
| 22:56:08 | | Quit robin0800 (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 22:56:26 | [Saint] | if you're in a very lowlight situation...it is actually *ery* surprising how much light "black = brightness 1" gives off. |
| 22:56:26 | mulenmar | [Saint] The human eye sees better in the yellow-green range if I remember right, so maybe those colors would be useful if one doesn't want to use full brightness or something. I don't know. |
| 22:56:31 | [Saint] | *very |
| 22:57:31 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 22:57:57 | | Quit jfc (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 23:00 |
| 23:00:02 | [Saint] | TheSeven: People in the know: What needs to be done still to implement recording on Nano2G? |
| 23:00:14 | [Saint] | since losing all my 1Gs, its something I miss. |
| 23:01:23 | TheSeven | not much |
| 23:01:43 | TheSeven | some extensions to the pcm driver |
| 23:02:01 | TheSeven | it might be a bit harder to make it work glitch-free |
| 23:02:14 | TheSeven | that I2S core has insanely small buffers (only a single sample) |
| 23:02:32 | [Saint] | Aha. Right, my basic question was surrounding "If I enabled it, would I expect it to work halfassedly, or not at all" |
| 23:09:04 | | Join yosafbridge [0] (~yosafbrid@li14-39.members.linode.com) |
| 23:10:22 | TheSeven | not at all |
| 23:10:41 | TheSeven | it's a matter of implementing about 5 functions in here: |
| 23:10:59 | TheSeven | http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/trunk/firmware/target/arm/s5l8700/pcm-s5l8700.c?view=markup |
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| 23:54:43 | | Quit bertrik (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
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