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#rockbox log for 2010-12-10

00:00:08amee2kstable sucks balls because almost everything is liek 2 years old :/
00:00:35amee2ksorry in case cursing is not allowed here, but when i'm drunk i'm more honest than polite
00:01:11kugelI know what you mean :)
00:02:07amee2ktesting is a lot better in that regard but its still a bit weee to me because i had issues with it on several occasions before
00:02:33amee2kawkward stuff and then i had third party stuff installed that
00:02:51amee2k#debian didn't like hearing about -> support issues
00:04:32amee2kthey used to be pretty tight even about backports or deb-multimedia repos until a year ago or so
00:04:41amee2kanyway, this is not #debian ;)
00:05:53amee2ktaking a look aaround what i could use for the future bootloader/HAL linux system i kinda came up empty except for a heavily modified LFS system, really
00:07:04amee2ki like the idea especially since i could probably learn a lot from building a system from ground up
00:07:22Tornethat won't be particularly small
00:07:27TorneLFS is not for embedded
00:07:45Tornejust use openembedded to build something
00:07:52Torneor buildroot
00:08:07amee2ki hope that after building a couple regular LFS systems i'll have enough exp to substitute embedded variants for lots of stuff
00:08:07Torneyou pretty much only need busybox and whatever libsdl depends on
00:08:15amee2klike busybox or klibc
00:08:23Torneer, but there's not really any connection there
00:08:32Tornebusybox replaces *everything*
00:08:44Torneand klibc is not for that at all
00:08:52Torne(uclibc is the usual embedded libc)
00:08:59amee2kand write a script that'll strip all the sources and dev tools from the tree to create the firmware image
00:09:10JdGordon|Torne: hardly *everything*
00:09:19TorneJdGordon|: everything in a base system
00:09:24Torneother than libc
00:09:42Torneamee2k: why would you want to do all that, though?
00:09:57Tornethis is all already done for you
00:09:58amee2k"all that" ?
00:10:02amee2kbeing using LFS?
00:10:09***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:10:19Torneyou don't need to strip sources and dev tools from a tree, just build into a different tree to start with
00:10:27Torneembedded systems do not need to be selfhosting
00:10:37Torneand all this build work has already been done several times
00:10:49Torneopenembedded, buildroot, and the other system slike that already do it all for you
00:10:50amee2khm.
00:11:03amee2ki still feel like at least doing it once myself
00:11:06Tornelearning how to make your own embedded distro from scratch properly will take weeks/months
00:11:10JdGordon|this is hardly #rockbox talk...
00:11:18Torneunless you have a huge amount of free time.
00:11:28TorneJdGordon|: the point is to host the sdl app, so kinda
00:11:32amee2ki'm a student, so yes :)
00:11:50amee2ki've been sticking to binary distros for by far the most part so far
00:12:05amee2kso i feel could learn a lot from it
00:12:12Torneno, you won't really
00:12:19kugel:p
00:12:23TorneLFS teaches you nothing useful or interesting
00:12:28amee2kwhy not? its something i've never done before
00:12:41Torneit's just following directions; you might as well use the automated shell script that does it for you
00:12:56 Join designate72 [0] (~aaron@adsl-065-013-002-216.sip.asm.bellsouth.net)
00:13:01amee2knot really
00:13:10Torneyes, really
00:13:20Torneand whatever you learn to do for yourself is virtually certain to turn out worse than what OE could've built for you in ten minutes of effort
00:13:26amee2kif a script does it for you, you don't care what it does. you just let it do its thing
00:13:43Torneif you follow precise instructions givent o you by the internet then you don't care what they do, you just let them do their thing
00:13:46Torneyou just spend more time copying and pasting.
00:14:01amee2kthats kinda why gentoo left me with a vaguely disappointed feeling afterwards
00:14:26saratogaboosting on arm9e and arm11 seems to make our MDCT codecs a lot slower, while formats like MP3 don't seem to care much
00:14:32TorneLFS does not grant *any* more understanding than gentoo
00:14:36saratogai wonder if our MDCT's ugly memory access partterns are the cause of that
00:14:43amee2kits not about being efficient or anything... its about having had to actually think about every step
00:14:53*Torne gives up.
00:15:02amee2khehe
00:15:23Torneyou're insisting on creating work for yourself to get a worse result, so whatever.
00:15:38amee2kdon't worry, its proably me arguing a point that i don't understand myself yet
00:15:59amee2kbut i won't know whether it has a point or not until i've tried
00:16:19Torneno, see, there is a fantastic way of discovering that without having to try; it's called "Listening to other people who have done the exact same thing before"
00:16:36amee2khehe yeah :)
00:16:49 Join fdinel [0] (~Miranda@modemcable235.127-131-66.mc.videotron.ca)
00:16:52Tornei'm anb embedded linux developer, amongst a million other things. i have built every kind of thing you can think of. i have done pretty much exactly waht you want to do here before, using several different automatic tools and manually.
00:17:29 Join Curulan [0] (~zarggg@24.229.139.169.res-cmts.sm.ptd.net)
00:17:49amee2k:)
00:18:28amee2kand if i didn't do it myself at least once, i'll always feel weeee about leting a tool do it for me
00:18:46amee2kor at least, thats the way i feel about it right now
00:19:19amee2kbecause i think thats the experience i got from when i tried gentoo last time
00:19:41Tornesrsly. you learn *nothing* by typing the stuff out yourself.
00:19:53Torneif you want to learn how an embedded system goes together, *write one*.
00:20:08Torneyou won't learn anything particularly interesting or useful by using someone else's kit
00:20:32Tornedoing LFS is exactly the same as running a shell script, and is equally adaptable to change (i.e. not at all)
00:20:49 Quit Zarggg_ (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
00:20:54amee2kits not the typing, really... hmmm not sure how to say it... its because i have no idea what really happens inside the script
00:21:05Torneyou won't have any idea what really happens following instructions either
00:21:28amee2kwell, more idea at least than just running the script
00:21:41Torneno, why do you assume that?
00:21:44 Quit Kupop (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
00:22:07Tornea large proportion of this process is working around specific bugs/issues in certain versions of various tools
00:22:07amee2ki already ran a script when i did gentoo last time. and felt it was lacking
00:22:17*krazykit thinks Torne and amee2k should take this to #rockbox-community
00:22:31JdGordon|no.... not -commuinty.... but not here either
00:22:34amee2know i want to do it myself... worst case i'll have wasted a couple sleeples nights
00:22:50kugelJdGordon|: that makes no sense
00:23:06JdGordon|they are tehe only 2 channels on freenode are they?
00:23:34kugelno, but everything that doesn't fit here fits -community (and the vice versa)
00:24:01*JdGordon| disagrees
00:24:28amee2ko.O
00:24:44*amee2k feels like he just stumbled into a lecture about set theory
00:25:36amee2kwell, technically it would kinda fit in #lfs if that exists :P
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00:41:09kugelamee2k: I suggest you try other SDL based apps, to make sure SDL isn't the problem
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00:55:09Ken299ey
00:55:39Ken299hoello?
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02:10:12***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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03:02:11LambdaCalculus37AlexP, soap, GodEater: louXl658hu... banhammer, por favor.
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03:08:53soaphmm
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03:09:31soapone of my 14 day test subnet bans SHOULD have caught that one.
03:10:18LambdaCalculus37soap: They're still slipping in under the radar, it seems.
03:10:46soapCould one of the actual forum Admins (zagor / scorche) look at louX1658hu and my two IP bans covering him? He should have not been able to log an account as I understand the system.
03:11:11JdGordon|should we add some more admins to deal with this?
03:11:28 Nick Strife1989 is now known as Strife89 (~Strife89@adsl-80-129-191.mcn.bellsouth.net)
03:11:43soapsearch the ban triggers by IP, and "14 day experiment #2" should have caught him.
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03:28:32[Saint]where would I want to start looking if I was thinking about an auto "soft-hold"? (probably going to add hold as a hotkey because of cramped ipod keymap)
03:29:11[Saint]I just don't want to remember to switch hold on every time (I know that sounds really lazy)
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03:46:44 Join [AndreR] [0] (~andrewrot@d24-36-251-35.home1.cgocable.net)
03:47:12[AndreR]hi all, I'm trying to write to a file in my plugin, and it seems I can make new files in the root of the simdisk, but not in a subfolder
03:47:42[AndreR]rb->open("/file.txt", O_CREAT|O_WRONLY|O_TRUNC, 0666); works
03:48:01[AndreR]rb->open("/folder/file.txt", O_CREAT|O_WRONLY|O_TRUNC, 0666); fails
03:48:08[AndreR]no error or anything, just no new file
03:48:28[AndreR]and I own the "folder" for unix permissions so I don't think that's it.. any ideas?
03:50:48 Join saratoga [0] (9803c6dd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.152.3.198.221)
03:50:52saratogascorche: airblue124 ban please
03:52:35soapsaratoga, done
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03:53:25LambdaCalculus37soap: wushipi0Lzg too.
03:53:30soapholy shit
03:54:28LambdaCalculus37soap: Can't we just delete the accounts of these spammers?
03:54:39soapwon't do anything.
03:54:50soapban = perm delete
03:55:20soapairblue's from a whole new IP range
03:56:41*LambdaCalculus37 hands soap the bigger banhammer
04:00
04:00:13 Quit InsDel (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
04:01:59scorcheJdGordon|: i just added akismet today, so hopefully the amount of spam can be cut down a bit...
04:02:10soapwow, the list of users awaiting activation is full of spam accounts.
04:02:34LambdaCalculus37soap: Can you prevent those accounts from being activated?
04:03:13soapLambdaCalculus37, doing so.
04:03:29scorchesoap: can you see "akismet configuration" under "forum" in the admin thing?
04:03:42scorcheit provides a handy one-click solution for spam it detects
04:04:06soapyea, scorche, but it doesn't stop it in the first place. :(
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04:07:49saratogaanyone familar with plugins want to tell me if 'FS #11799 - Less disk activity patch for text viewer plugin' looks ok?
04:08:02saratogait looks good to me and it works nicely on the beast, but wanted to double check before i commit
04:08:31scorchesoap: i also added a human verification question - or attempted to at least - i can tweak them however
04:08:45soaphow recently did you add that?
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04:09:17scorchewell, i just changed it to get rid of quotation marks which might have made it easier to parse for a bot
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04:10:16***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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04:12:42scorchesoap: the next step might be to implement something like this: http://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?mod=2155
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04:14:04soapI like the IP based approach.
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04:17:17LambdaCalculus37scorche: The verification question works, but it should probably randomize itself if possible.
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04:17:43scorcheLambdaCalculus37: i added another question which might help
04:17:46soaphere comes a test
04:17:56scorcheeh?
04:18:02soapahh
04:18:06soapfgfgfgfg is scorche
04:18:09scorche=)
04:18:29scorchei was testing to see if that code could handle the second question i added
04:20:04LambdaCalculus37scorche: It works. :)
04:20:15scorcheyes, i already tested ;)
04:20:15LambdaCalculus37NotASpammer was me testing it out.
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04:33:04soapFWIW, AlexP you too, I banned twenty some "spam seed" accounts awaiting activation. All registered in the last 7 days. i was too lazy to enter a reason for them, but it should be obvious looking at the user names.
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07:29:06[Saint]are the steps needed to successfully compile the SDL app documented anywhere?
07:30:09 Join n1s [0] (~n1s@rockbox/developer/n1s)
07:33:43JdGordonsame as any other target
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07:41:32Buschelsaratoga: you wrote about major decoding efficiency differences in some codecs between unboosted/boosted state. do you have some numbers?
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07:49:36saratogaBuschel: (for the logs) yeah just looking at test_codec for AMSv2
07:51:10saratogahttp://www.rockbox.org/wiki/CodecPerformanceComparison#AMS_AS3525v2_w_47_40MHz_PCLK_44_40MHz_FCLK_40ARM926EJ_45S_41
07:51:18saratogaand the one above it are the unboosted and boosted results
07:52:04saratogaunboosted the mdct codecs are all much faster then mp3, boosted they're all slower
07:53:43saratogavorbis in particular is tremendously hurt by slower memory performance
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07:56:50[Saint]hahaha! I seem to have quite a profitable couch...there's two couches in my lounge, one that I sit on and one everyone else sits on basically, myself and the GF never sit on it as it's kinda weird shaped and pretty low to the ground and. I moved it to clean under it (the cats lose their toys under it all the time and whine about it) and found $39.10 in loose change.
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07:58:54[Saint]$27 of that is in $1 & $2coins, and ~$8 in $-.50 coins...so it's not even "bullshit shrapnel you'll never use".
07:59:00Buschelsaratoga: thanks, never recognized that this data was available :)
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08:00
08:00:20[Saint]apparently this couch is perfectly adapted to rob the coins from the pockets of those that sit there ;) I don't feel so bad about spending too much on DAPs lately now ;p
08:01:45the_KyleCan anything at all be done about the ringing noise I get when recording at low frequencies, or is this a hardware issue?
08:02:05 Quit Barahir_ (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
08:03:59saratogaBuschel: looking at it, i think some of the difference is due to the mdctlib, not sure why vorbis is so much worse then wma though, both use the same lib
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08:05:56Buschelsaratoga: a52 is also using mdctlib, but of smaller size, right?
08:06:39saratogait uses the fft part only i think
08:07:58Buscheljust checked, you're right
08:08:31n1stremor is pretty memory heavy over all
08:09:17Buschelbut it does all the pre-/post-rotation stuff in an own implementation. for n=256 and n=512
08:09:19saratogagood catch with liba52
08:09:23saratogait barely slows down at all
08:09:52saratogaso either the problem isn't the mdct, is specific to the mdct fiddling and not the fft, or else its only very large blocks that are slow
08:09:52Buschelwma uses larger transform lenghts, is this valid for the others as well?
08:10:02saratogacook uses smaller ones
08:10:17saratogaWMA can use any size (and normal sizes typically use them)
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08:10:31Buschelcook also slows down quite a lot
08:11:04Buschelwhat are the typical transform lengths for our codecs/testfiles? do you know this by hard? ;)
08:11:06saratogaIIRC cook and liba52 use the same size transform
08:11:16saratogaof course :)
08:11:20saratogawhich do you want to know
08:11:41Buschelwma, aac, vorbis, cook :)
08:12:13saratogacook is always 512 (IIRC)
08:12:29saratogavorbis is usually 2048/256 but files can use other sizes if they want
08:12:36saratogaaac is always 2048/256
08:12:41n1svorbis is 256/2048 for anything not super low birate usually (although others are allowed the encoders don't use them)
08:13:02*n1s slow
08:13:20saratogawma is 128/256/512/1024/2048, with 2048 taking up something like half the blocks on average and the rest of the sizes being mixed in fairly evenly
08:14:13saratogano i was wrong, cook is 1024 only, not 512
08:14:55saratogawe probably need a test_mdct plugin
08:15:22Buschelso, the size might impact the slow down. cook not slowing as much as the others. but this is not for sure as vorbis is not fitting into this assumption...
08:15:40saratogaatrac is 512, exactly the same as liba52, might be neat to compare it
08:17:21n1sother parts of vorbis will suffer from slow memory, such as the residue decoding
08:17:22saratogathe liba52 mdct pre/post rotation stuff is definitely going to be faster on targets with slow memory, since its trig table is sorted for only the sizes it needs
08:17:40Buschelgood point
08:17:43saratogain comparison the mdctlib version strides all over the place
08:18:15saratogawe probably need to revert some of stripwax's clever math that cuts down the codeclib mdct trig tables so they fit into IRAM for targets that don't have IRAM
08:18:45saratogamake it a compile time option, the original version of the lib used math just like liba52, i'm sure thats a lot faster on arm9 and probably even more on arm11
08:19:12saratogait would be preferable if he does it though, since he actually understands it
08:22:44Buschelgotta go to work now, see you
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08:23:50saratogai should sleep
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08:30:36*[Saint] wonders what's going on with http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,26655.msg175437.html#msg175437
08:31:02[Saint]that's some strage behaviour to carry through to the OF, it gives the impression it was fine pre-install.
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11:18:40pixelmacould someone update the fonts package on the download server? The one currently available is from September 2009 and there were additions and changes since then. I even think that this has been asked before but nothing happened and I was reminded due to a recent post in the forums
11:24:48Zagorthe rockbox-fonts-3.7.1.zip ?
11:26:46pixelmathe one linked from the extra page - it's http://download.rockbox.org/daily/fonts/rockbox-fonts.zip
11:27:22pixelmamaybe it's enough to link the 3.7 one. I didn't even know it existed
11:27:25Zagoraha. it's a symlink to release 3.4. fixing.
11:27:59pixelmathanks :)
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11:56:05soapwho deleted the most recent spam on the forums from uggboots9?
11:57:31soapA, It got through scorche's new humanity check.
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11:59:49soapB, I'm curious who and how it was deleted, as it was deleted in such a fashion it doesn't show up in "Removed Posts", which means I could't have easily banned uggboots9 if even a single post had been deleted after his, for his name would no longer be visible.
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13:43:20gevaertsAlexP, soap: goboots48
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13:45:49*pixelma too slow
13:48:58pixelmaspeaking of which: should the spam posts be deleted immediately (as I would be allowed to) or would this make banning harder?
13:50:03gevaertsI use the "delete" button, which (at least for me) sends them to Removed Posts
13:50:45pixelmathat's what I meant
13:53:17GodEaterKugel: for the logs - has the recent change to the android SDK broken our configure script?
13:54:01GodEaterI don't seem to be able to build for android now since our Makefile specifies arm-linux-androideabi-gcc - but it seems the SDK now just calls it "gcc"
13:54:23GodEaterdoesn't make banning any harder pixelma
13:54:31GodEaterso delete em straight away
13:54:51pixelmaok, thanks. Will do next time
13:55:06GodEaterjusdt don't then delete the post from "Removed posts" afterwards
13:55:12GodEateras this does make it tougher to track them down
13:55:46pixelmaalright, I never did anyway but will keep it in mind :)
13:56:11pixelmaI mean deleting something from "Removed posts"
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14:32:53b0hoonjhMikeS: ping
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14:43:33mortalscanmorning
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15:44:49kugelGodEater:
15:45:32kugelmy copy of the r5 ndk calls it arm-elf-androideabi-gcc
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16:12:26CIA-7New commit by 03wodz (r28782): HD300 - do not handle scrollstrip events when hold is on
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16:14:12CIA-7r28782 build result: All green
16:14:14CIA-7New commit by 03kugel (r28783): Base voice thread stack size on DEFAULT_STACK_SIZE, it's otherwise likely to overflow on app targets.
16:14:20CIA-7New commit by 03kugel (r28784): Android: Replace the java based tick timer implemented with a not as bloated and more accurate linux hrtimer based one. Further reduces idle cpu usage ...
16:15:52CIA-7r28783 build result: All green
16:17:34CIA-7r28784 build result: All green
16:17:44wodzI found strange bug - if the playlist ends and dap goes back to main menu while hold is on button handling is not correct after turning off hold.
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16:18:24wodzI looks similar to the the bug on ipods not servicing scrollwheel after hold sometimes. But I thought this bug was fixed.
16:18:32wodz*It
16:18:48Tornethe ipod bug is not fixed
16:18:59Torneit seemed like it was but i guess not
16:19:20Tornethe fix we put in for that was ipod-driver-specific, though, nothing to do with rockbox's handling of hold/scrollwheel in general
16:19:39pixelmakugel: could your voice stack change influence other targets, and if then how?
16:19:58kugelpixelma: the effective size is the same
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16:20:48wodzTorne: do you remember commit/FS which deal with this?
16:20:58Torneyes, because it's still open and on my watchlist
16:21:00Torneone sec
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16:21:01kugelTorne: I think wodz refers to r28584
16:21:12Tornehttp://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/5230
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16:21:36kugelhm maybe not :)
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16:21:43Torneoh, that's something different..
16:21:44blindbluesmamaOk that's better. Hi everyone.
16:22:31wodzTorne: I observe it on HD300 but since scrollstrip driver is heavily inspired by mini1G code it is likely that the origin of the bug is the same
16:22:56Tornewell, maybe
16:23:04blindbluesmamaChanServ: I just purchased an mp3 player and it came with rockbox pre-installed. This is great. But I'm having trouble making play lists. I would like to make a play list that spans several folders and songs.
16:23:05Tornethere's two possible places the problem could be, though
16:23:19Torneeither in the driver, or in the action code
16:23:25blindbluesmamaI have tried to read the manual on this and it didn't make a lot of sense.
16:23:33Tornethe actoin code has some hairy stuff that tries to exclude button releases from the previous context after switching context
16:23:41Torneand i'm not convinced it's actually right in all cases
16:24:07blindbluesmamaHere's what happens, I go to insert a folder or track and I insert it and then when I try to insert the next one it overwrites what I already did.
16:24:15Torneyou could probably add some fairly easy debugging to identify whether it's that the button event doesn't get generated, or the button event being swallowed without generating an action
16:24:24n1sblindbluesmama: you can insert dirs in the playlist by opening the context menu in the file browser with the dir selected and choosing playlist->insert
16:24:53blindbluesmamaOk, stupid question, is that where you are on a file and then press select and it says play list?
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16:25:15wodzTorne: the common factor in mini1G code and HD300 code is that button_queue is filled from ISR.
16:25:34n1sblindbluesmama: yes, but if you want to insert a dir, you should select the dir, not a file
16:25:46Tornewodz: the problem with the ipod scrollwheel is not anything to do with button queueing..
16:25:47n1sit is usually a long press
16:25:58Torneit's actually the physical hardware stopping generating the event
16:26:05Torneat least, the original problem
16:26:09Torne..in theory
16:26:17Tornepeople could be wrong, since the fix doesn't actually fix it
16:26:41Tornei didn't experience the problem for a long time after the fix for FS #5230 went in
16:26:47Tornebut now I do again, and the symptoms are identical
16:27:07Torne..hang on, wait
16:27:12Torneit's not the *scrollwheel* that stops working on ipods
16:27:14Torneit's the buttons
16:27:27blindbluesmamaPl.ut`I've been doing that and whatever I insert gets overwritten.
16:27:36Tornethe ipod issue is that after you release hold, the actual buttons don't work, *until* you scroll the wheel
16:27:36blindbluesmamaWhat am I doing wrong?
16:27:41Tornei.e. you can change volume but not pause
16:27:51wodzTorne: but they are handled by the same chip AFAIK
16:28:34Torneblindbluesmama: if you just press the select button on a track, it will throw away the current playlist and make a new one consisting of the tracks from that directory
16:28:35blindbluesmamaI mean the whole idea of a play list is that you can insert whatever you want from whatever folder, and also I'm having trouble saving. Is there anyone who can walk me through it stiep by step? I have a sansa e200p
16:28:55Torneyou need to hold down the select button on a folder/file to bring up the context menu, then select the actual option labelled "insert"
16:29:03Tornejust selecting a file doesn't insert it, ever
16:29:09Torneit plays it, replacing hte current playlist.
16:29:35blindbluesmamaOk, I see, so how do I actually tell it that I want to append stuff to the current play list not throw away what I had before, torn?
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16:29:55TorneI *just told you*
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16:30:43blindbluesmamaI go to file or folder and press select for a long time until it says play list. I press select again and it says insert or if it's on a directory I also have the option of doing insert shuffle. Is there an important step I've missed or not done?
16:31:16TorneThat will insert it so that it's *next* in the playlist
16:31:25Torneit won't delete the other things inthe playlist, but it won't put it at the end
16:31:34Torneif you want to insert it at the end, pick insert last
16:31:59blindbluesmamaHmm, sounds like we're doing the same thing. Please bare with me. I'm blind and sometimes a little slow to read the text stuff.
16:32:18pixelmaTorne: not all insert/queue options are always available
16:32:22Torneall the insert options insert the selected thing into the existing playlist. none of them replace the playlist.
16:32:44blindbluesmamaConfused, I haven't yet run up on that option. Maybe just not holding the select long enough? Let me scroll back a little more.
16:32:57Torneso i suspect it's just not inserting it where you expect. it doesn't insert it at the end unless you explicitly choose "insert last"
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16:33:14Primulahello
16:33:26PrimulaI'm trying to install rockbox to my D2
16:33:30Tornethere's only one context menu; if you get a menu then you're holding it for long enough.
16:33:42Primulabut i can't install tcc driver
16:33:47blindbluesmamaWhen I pick view current play list to see what I've done, it only plays the last folder or directory I inserted.
16:34:04Primulait said the system cannot find files specified
16:34:13Torneblindbluesmama: i'm afraid that's not possible, you must be mistaken
16:34:14Primulaanyone can help? >.<
16:34:27Torneblindbluesmama: the "insert" options never remove anything from the playlist.
16:35:01blindbluesmamaDoes it make a difference whether I have speech installed or not?
16:35:10Torneno.
16:35:38blindbluesmamaack`: Nope not mistaken.
16:36:20blindbluesmamaWell, at least I don't *think* I'm mistaken as I've tried this several times and every time with the same result. Only the last thing I inserted stays in the play list.
16:36:36Torneno, really, you must be mistaken, either about what the playlist contains, or about what you did. I know how the code works.
16:36:59wodzmaybe this is 'hacked' rockbox version installed?
16:37:56blindbluesmamaMaybe there's a key press that you're leaving out or that I didn't see you type? And I'm not mistaken about what the play list contains. I press view current play list, and no matter how much stuff I inserted before it only plays the last folder or file I inserted.
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16:38:34blindbluesmamaNo got it from accessibleelectronics.org
16:38:38Tornethere is nothing that you can leave out; if you selected a menu option labelled "Insert" then that inserts into the existing playlist. It never deletes anything.
16:39:25blindbluesmamaAfter I pick insert or insert shuffled do I press select or that button above select?
16:39:41Torneyou don't need to press anything
16:39:47Torneonce you pick insert that's it, it's done.
16:39:59Torneit exits the context menu automatically and goes back to the file browser
16:40:11blindbluesmamaIf I'm in a folder I get insert and insert shuffled. If I'm just selecting a individual file I get only insert.
16:40:17Torneif you press select again after that then it's as if you never went into the menu..
16:40:27Torneit will just delete the playlist and replace it with what you just selected
16:41:02Primulano one can help? :9
16:41:02TorneYou should get more optoins than that unless the playlist is empty
16:41:04Primula:(
16:41:07blindbluesmamaHm. When I pick insert do I press select or the top button above select? When I press select the file starts to play.
16:41:22Torneblindbluesmama: you don't press anything
16:41:27Torneas soon as you pick insert, it's done.
16:41:39pixelmaPrimula: sorry, not many people know about the D2 port
16:42:05Torneit just goes back to the file browser and you can pick more files, or not, as you choose.
16:42:14pixelmaPrimula: be patient :)
16:42:18blindbluesmamaThen if I don't need to do anything (starting to see the problem... how do I get back to the files?
16:42:29Torneit goe sback to the file list automatically
16:42:35Primula<pixelma> Primula: sorry, not many people know about the D2 port <<< well, the problem is within tcc
16:42:47Torneyou pick insert, it inserts the files (which will take a moment if there's lots of files) and then it goes back to the file list.
16:42:54Primulai can;t install the driver
16:42:58blindbluesmamaNo just stays on insert.
16:43:09Torneno it doesn't.
16:43:13pixelma"picking insert" means chosing it like any other menu option which means pressing select or "right" in most cases
16:43:27blindbluesmamaI have to press something... to get back to files.
16:43:32TorneNo you don't.
16:43:48Primulapixelma : well at least i know someone read and actually reply, not just ignored me :)
16:43:49blindbluesmamaI can't press select, or as you said it will go and play it and then I have to start all over.
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16:44:34blindbluesmamaIt just stays on insert. Maybe left arrow?
16:45:10Torneexact sequence of button presses: scroll to the file you want to add, hold down select until the menu comes up, scroll to insert, press select to choose the insert option, then that's it. The file gets inserted (which will not cause it to play) and it goes back to the file list on its own.
16:45:56blindbluesmamaHm. So I pick insert and then right instead of select, so I can add more files?
16:46:38Torneno, right and select both do the same thing in menus
16:46:42Torneit makes no difference
16:46:47blindbluesmamaThat's the problem. If I choose insert and then press selecdt, it plays the files, assuming that select is that middle button that looks like a big circle.
16:47:04Torneit will start playing for the *first* thing you select, because that creates a new playlist
16:47:15Tornebut for anything you insert later, it should just keep playing what it's playing already
16:47:27blindbluesmama*frustrated.
16:48:06pixelmanot right again, once you have started a playlist you need to repeat the sequence on the next file starting with going up/down in the file browser and then the long hold for the context menu
16:48:35pixelmagoing up/down in the filebrowser to get to your next song, I mean
16:48:41blindbluesmamaSo we're going around in circles, beginning to feel like I'm part of that who's on first thing. So assumming that I have done all previous steps correctly then I can go and add more files. But there's the trouble. when I do that it erases whatever I had in there to begin with.
16:50:00blindbluesmamaDos anyone here have skype or msn or something?????????
16:50:42blindbluesmamaack`: And are there any people here who have to use speech as I do?
16:51:33Tornei have just tested this sequence of events on my player, using speech, and it works as I have described, so you must be misunderstanding
16:51:45 Part b0hoon ("Back to work.")
16:52:18blindbluesmamaPix, as I explained when I start the process over to add other files the file I had in there previously gets erased and replaced with the one I just added.
16:52:42blindbluesmama'I am really starting to feel like the kid who rode the short bus here.
16:54:11blindbluesmamaYes, I concurr that I have misunderstood something but to this point can't figure out what it is since I'm doing what you said. Chose file or folder, long press on center button, bring up playlist, press select again bring up insert and then press select again.
16:54:17blindbluesmamaRight so far?
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16:54:37Torneyes
16:54:47Tornethe first time you do that, it should start playing the file you selected
16:54:53Torneit does that, yes?
16:55:11blindbluesmamaYes.
16:55:14Tornethe second time, it shouldn't change what's playing, the current track should keep playing.
16:55:20Tornedoes it change what's playing when you do it?
16:55:27Torneif so, *when* does it change?
16:55:39*Strife89TX is using r28755 and has been having problems with Rockbox freezing while queuing a track.
16:56:03Strife89TXTarget is an iPod Video (64MB of RAM, 60GB HDD)
16:56:13blindbluesmamaYes, but then when I go to view current play list, because I don't want to be inserting a lot of stuff only to find it isn't working... it only shows up with the last song played or folder if it was a whole folder.
16:56:53Torneno, forget about viewing the playlist for a moment
16:57:07Tornewhen does the currently playing track change, in that process?
16:57:09Strife89TXBasically, Rockbox has occasionally locked up while (or shortly after) queuing up a track.
16:57:14Tornei.e. what you hear out of the headphones
16:57:45Strife89TXThe tracks it has crashed on so far are known-good files; i.e., they play if loaded as the first track.
16:58:14 Quit n1s (Quit: Lämnar)
16:58:21Strife89TXTypically, Rockbox will suddenly produce a loud, static hiss, or become completely silent.
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16:58:38Strife89TXAttempting to stop playback will cause it to freeze entirely.
16:58:40blindbluesmamaI think it doesn't but sometimes I have to press stop so I can hear what rock box is saying. Oh yes. I have to press the bottom button to It doesn't change I think, but I have to press that bottom left button to get back to files. I haven't figured out how to get back and still hear speech.
16:58:50blindbluesmamaPerhaps that's the problem?
16:58:52Strife89TXUpon rebooting, the playlist control file will be invalid.
16:59:29Torneok, wait.
16:59:44Torneare you stopping playback entirely after selecting the first set of files, before you choose the second one?
16:59:51Tornenot just pausing it?
17:00
17:00:21pixelmaif you want to hear voice you can't pause music
17:00:21blindbluesmamaSo I Hang on a sec.
17:00:34pixelmathat will pause voice too
17:01:45 Part Zagor
17:01:59Strife89TXWait a minute .... Rockbox paused to spin up the hard drive while I was entering the LCD settings menu. I *just* cleared my settings and rebooted and have not started playback.
17:02:35Strife89TXAren't these menus *part* of the firmware file, and therefore loaded into RAM?
17:02:58wodzit probably loaded settings file
17:03:12Strife89TXI thought it loaded it on boot.
17:03:54pixelmait "looks" for voice clips unless you turned the option off
17:04:02pixelmaat least it should
17:04:19Strife89TXI did turn voice menus off.
17:05:43 Quit liar (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
17:05:44pixelmaafter clearing your settings?
17:05:55Strife89TXI rebooted and it did a fair bit of disk activity (~10 seconds). The only settings I have changed from default are: voice menus off, Brightness set to top and bottom Quickscreen items.
17:05:59Torneblindbluesmama: okay, there is a setting you can turn on which might make it easier to work out what's going on here
17:06:44Strife89TXr28755 by the way.
17:07:17Torneblindbluesmama: go to settings, then general settings, then playlist, then warn when erasing dynamic playlist, and set it to yes
17:07:37Torneblindbluesmama: that will make it warn you and ask for confirmation before you do any action which will result in the current playlist being cleared
17:07:38wodzwell entering settings->general settings->display->lcd settings doesn't spinn up disk for me
17:08:00Torneblindbluesmama: then try doing it again and see if that warning comes up
17:08:38Strife89TXI really don't have a clue, then, unless something in .rockbox is corrupted.
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17:09:40Strife89TXBut I don't have a computer nearby to scan it and I'd prefer to work with music.
17:09:59pixelmamaybe some glyph cache thing?
17:10:32Strife89TXMaybe ... manually delete the file perhaps?
17:11:16Strife89TX.glyphcache is currently 558 bytes.
17:11:31pixelmano, I meant if your theme uses a large font etc. Rockbox can't hold all glyphs in RAM and might need to reload some from disk
17:12:09Strife89TXIf this is true with the *default font*, then I'll accept that./
17:12:22Strife89TXBut it doesn't explain all the crashing.
17:13:28TorneThis is true with the default font on some devices, yes
17:14:10Strife89TXThe device in question is an iPod Video.
17:14:11Tornecabbiev2 on 320x240 devices uses a font bigger than the font buffer
17:14:13TorneThen yes.
17:14:38TorneThe next point size up *or* down is small enough to fit in the buffer, iirc, but the one used by default is not.
17:15:03Strife89TXWait, a *bigger version* of the *same font* fits in the buffer?
17:15:18Strife89TXWhat is this mojo?
17:15:19Tornea larger point size version, yes
17:15:30Tornethe characters included/excluded in each size are not the same
17:15:46Torneit purely depends on which characters were included in the original X bdf fonts
17:15:47Strife89TXAh, no wonder.
17:15:55wodzTorne: you mentioned there is simple check if the problem is on driver level or on action handling layer level (with buttons). Could you elabore this?
17:15:57Tornethe version cabbie uses has loads and loads of non-ascii glyphs
17:16:14Tornewodz: have the actual button driver do something visible when it receives a button event
17:16:16pixelmaon the Video...
17:16:16Strife89TXI can live with missing chars.
17:16:27Torneer, yeah. on devices with a 320x240 screen
17:16:42Torneother screen sizes use a version of the font which is both smaller in space-on-screen and space-in-ram :)
17:17:02Strife89TXJust curious, how big is the cache?
17:17:04pixelmaand sometimes not even nearly as many characters
17:17:13Strife89TXOn 320x240 targets
17:17:25Torneit's based on ramsize, not screen size, alas
17:17:28Strife89TXAh.
17:17:38Strife89TXRAM on this iPod is 64 MB
17:17:40Tornewell, partly on both
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17:17:59TorneDevices with more than 2MB of ram *and* more than 64 pixel height LCD use 60000 bytes for the cache
17:18:10Torneless than 2mb of ram is 10000 bytes
17:18:16Torneless than 64 pixel height is 4000 bytes
17:18:26Strife89TXAh, that's all?
17:18:30Torneso yes, a large number of our default fonts are bigger than 60000 bytes
17:18:43Torneyes, that's all.
17:18:47Tornethat's just for the UI font
17:18:55Tornefonts used by the skin are loaded into the skin buffer and work differently
17:18:55Strife89TXI'm guessing increasing the cache size would be tricky?
17:19:03Torneno, entirely trivial :)
17:19:08Torneit's #define'd in font.c
17:19:15jbotalanSo I had a momentary idea, which involves needing a couple of GPIO pins on my player. Does anyone know offhand if any beyond the ones in the microsd slot are open? can the usb pins be used as gpio pins?
17:19:18Strife89TXI.e., for targets with lots more than 2MB of RAM
17:19:21Tornei have previously pondered making a third tier for devices with at least 16/32mb of ram
17:19:34Tornei also invented a scheme to allocate the memory dynamically at boot
17:19:38Tornebased onthe font selected at boot time
17:19:50Tornebut we solved the ipod video boot time problem by fixing the font cache loading to not be so slow instead
17:19:55Torneso, i never made those changes
17:19:55Strife89TXAh.
17:20:04Tornethis used to cost ipod video ~6 seconds at boot
17:20:04jbotalanooh i have a sansa. probably should have mentioned that
17:20:17Strife89TXSpeaking of problems, I still have no idea what caused the crashes. ....
17:20:17Tornebecause loading into the font cache on that device was hundreds of times slower than loading direct to th ebuffer :)
17:21:19TorneStrife89TX: allocating it dynamically seems like a reasonable option
17:21:39Tornechanging UI font is rare
17:21:42Strife89TXSometimes the problem will occur if I change an item's position on the playlist.
17:21:50Torneanyway, i think your crash may be unrelated ;)
17:22:25Strife89TXYeah, I figured as much.
17:23:33*Strife89TX spent too long constructing that first playlist, and *fwssssssssssssssssh* - it's gone
17:30:27*Strife89TX now can't remember (in an attempt to diagnose the issue) what tracks were being loaded at the crash point. :/
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17:36:39Strife89TXAlthough one of the triggers was simply moving a track further up the queue.
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17:49:48blindbluesmamaOk, I hope y'all didn't boot me out.
17:51:15blindbluesmamaI think I've figured out how to make a play list. I saved it and it saves in the root directory as dynamic.m3u8 and you can put stuff after that if you want. But how do I then bring up that file as a play list.
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17:51:59blindbluesmamaRight now it just says open with, rename, etc. Doesn't say anything about playing or indicate that it can be played.
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17:55:30blindbluesmamaIs anyone still around?
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17:57:26bertrikyes. I never use playlists explicitly, so I probably can't help you.
17:58:39bertrikI guess you can just select a playlist with the file browser and press the select button.
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17:59:50Strife89TXNormally that is how playlists are loaded.
18:00
18:00:08Strife89TXSo long as they have the .m3u extension it should work.
18:00:33Strife89TXEr, .m3u8
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18:03:48evilnick_Bblindbluesmama: You should be able to navigate to the dynamic.m3u8 file and 'play' it by using a short select
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18:10:33***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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18:44:01kugeldamn
18:44:09kugelwhat's up with the android emulator
18:44:13kugelcrash on playing music
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18:54:07kugeloh, only rockbox crashes it
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19:41:14CIA-7New commit by 03kugel (r28785): Android: Rework notification and change icon sizes to better meet the systems' standard. ...
19:43:00CIA-7r28785 build result: 377 errors, 0 warnings (kugel committed)
19:44:19CIA-7New commit by 03kugel (r28786): Oops, unintended change slipped in.
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19:46:03CIA-7r28786 build result: All green
19:46:13the_KyleI have refined my SVox Pico support in tools/voice.pl and tools/configure slightly. So far, I simply diverted the segmentation fault error messages that the pico2wave utility generates to /dev/null. There's nothing to fear from these messages, as the output of the synthesizer is still generated and encoded correctly. I am using it happily on my player. Now I just need to ask what is necessary to upload my patch, and what parameters I should use to create the
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20:00:24pixelmathe_Kyle: you were cut off at "to create the"
20:01:36the_KyleI was asking for the parameters need to create the patch to make it easiest to apply.
20:02:29the_KyleSorry, I didn't know the server had a character limit. My client isn't telling me when I go over, and it sounded like it posted the whole message.
20:02:42pixelmano problem
20:03:30pixelmato answer the general part of your question: you need to register at our patch and bug tracker and we have a real name policy for our code base. So if you want your patch included then you would need to state your real name
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20:05:20pixelmaI'm not aware of any parameters to create the patch, I prefer patches created from trunk, not some subfolders and using svn. But patches created with git should also work if you prefer that
20:06:18the_KyleAre there any special options required for the diff?
20:06:56pixelmano. At least I don't work with any :)
20:08:19 Join factor [0] (~factor@r74-195-220-23.msk1cmtc02.mskgok.ok.dh.suddenlink.net)
20:08:34the_KyleThis patch applies to two files. If I'm patching multiple files, should I submit two patches, or can I concatinate them into a single patch file?
20:09:25pixelmaif both are needed to solve one thing then one patch file will do
20:09:34gevaertsOne patch per feature, regardless of how many files are touched
20:10:00gevaertsAnd the output of "svn diff" is fine
20:10:37***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:11:39the_KyleI applied a patch to my current copy of trunk. Should I checkout another copy for my patch,?
20:12:35gevaertsYou can add filenames to the svn diff command to tell it which files you want
20:12:35the_KyleSorry. I mean I downloaded and applied a patch to my copy before I changed the files for my voice patch.
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20:12:47gevaertsor subdirectories
20:13:12the_KyleSounds good. You should have my patch soon.
20:14:19the_KyleIf the USB patch didn't touch tools/configure, and I don't believe it did, I can get this uploaded as soon as I register in the bug tracker.
20:14:56gevaertsMost patches don't touch anything under tools/
20:15:35the_KyleGood. I'll send it up shortly.
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20:22:56CIA-7New commit by 03kugel (r28787): Restore correct launcher.png for mdpi that got accidentally overwritten.
20:24:42CIA-7r28787 build result: All green
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20:43:48the_KyleWhat is the best category for my voice patch? I don't see voice specifically, but it looks like it could fit either in language, user interface or possibly even configuration.
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20:55:43the_KyleMy guess so far is language. The patch applies to the voice system, which relies heavily on language, so language is probably correct.
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20:56:52pixelmaI guess either language or user interface. It would fit both and I wouldn't care which one of the two you pick
20:58:47the_KyleI'm also getting a dropdown box to select the reported version. I see a selection for "daily build which" or something like that, but I can't find svn except under rbutil. I also can't find anything to select the build date, unless I should put it in the details.
20:59:13gevaertsFor a patch, the version isn't too important
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21:05:25eWillI've been using this USB patch (as3525v2-usb.diff, from FS #11664) for a few weeks, and have not yet seen Windows 7 force Full Speed USB Mode. How do you trigger it?
21:05:37eWillFuze v2
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21:27:20the_Kylehttp://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/11803
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21:44:50scorchesoap: can you noe see the moderation log?
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21:52:10AlexPscorche: If you mean on the forums, I can't so I assume soap can't either
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21:52:31AlexPUnless I am just missing it, where would it be?
21:52:51scorcheadmin > maintenance > moderation log
21:54:10scorchesoap: i am not sure if this is the post you were referring to, but it looks like yapper "removed" it - not "deleted"
21:54:27AlexPscorche: no maintenance section even :)
21:54:30scorcheah
21:57:29ej0rgeI found the file that was crashing the metadata parser on my beast. Turns out to be an rm file that midentify says contains video and audio. And the audio is Sipro so, it was never going to play anyway. Will log a bug anyhow.
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22:09:52ej0rgelogged FS #11804
22:10:29ej0rgeThanks all for the pointer to the metadata log patch yesterday - wouldn't have figured it out without it.
22:10:41***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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22:37:52saratogaej0rge: thanks, should be easy to fix
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22:55:21ej0rgesaratoga: welcome
22:55:49ej0rgeI don't expect (or even want) that file to ever play on my device. I'm not even sure why i have it.
22:56:21saratogayeah it won't work since we don't support that audio format, but the rm parser still shouldn't break on it
22:57:24kugelyou mean it should accept the file and the codec should fail later on?
22:58:21saratogawe were talking about this the other day, but i think its expected that the database should parse the file normally, but during playback it should be rejected
22:58:38saratogapersonally i would prefer to just have the metadata parser reject it
22:58:55kugelwhy should we have something in the database that we cannot play?
22:59:17saratogaask jdgordon
22:59:27kugelthat makes no sense for me
22:59:44kugelI'd expect that all items in the database can be played
22:59:59kugelso I agree with you
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23:19:09ej0rgeI guess maybe there's a question of whether the database update is going to re-parse those files every time, and whether that's a performance concern.
23:19:23ej0rgei don't imagine that it would be much of a performance concern
23:31:15 Quit krabador (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
23:32:03 Quit Battousai (Read error: Operation timed out)
23:32:47 Join Battousai [0] (~bryan@gentoo/developer/battousai)
23:34:44the_KyleWhat is the status of fs#11541? I can't get it applied.
23:34:47 Join moos [0] (moos@rockbox/staff/moos)
23:35:11 Quit DerPapst (Quit: Leaving.)
23:35:27 Join MethoS- [0] (~clemens@134.102.106.250)
23:37:17the_KyleEverything fails.
23:41:59 Quit kevku (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.2 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
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23:50:40 Quit user890104 ()
23:53:19saratogathe_Kyle: that patch is 4 months old, the odds of it applying are near zero
23:58:01 Quit saratoga (Quit: Page closed)

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