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#rockbox log for 2011-02-08

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00:12:12 Join sideral [0] (~sideral@rockbox/developer/sideral)
00:15:38sideraln1s, pixelma: I'm not sure what the conclusion of the lang string deprecation discussion is. What should I use in place of "none"?
00:16:04sideralAnd could you please file a bug against langtool.pl so that people are at least aware of the issue?
00:19:40 Quit mt (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
00:20:13 Join mlt- [0] (~8654d106@giant.haxx.se)
00:20:35mlt-Is UIsimulator broken under MinGW?
00:22:46mlt-First time it didn't find lang.h , but after I added -I into Makefile it can't find bitmaps/rockboxlogo.h . It compiled fine under ubuntu yesterday.
00:23:00Zagormlt-: no idea. I don't know if anyone test it with mingw regularly.
00:23:19mlt-bummer
00:27:28gevaertsmlt-: I just tried a mingw build here, and it works fine
00:28:02mlt-hm.. do you have any idea what might be wrong?
00:28:21mlt-I have clean svn copy
00:28:43mlt-make 3.81 ... the only thing I miss is 'svnversion', but I guess that is fine
00:30:22gevaertsWhat OS are you using?
00:30:29mlt-Windows XP SP3
00:30:31mlt-32 bit
00:31:29gevaertsI'm on linux
00:31:33gevaertsThings might be different
00:32:30mlt-I can't find where "bitmaps.make" is getting included :(
00:32:56Zagormlt-: in tools/root.make
00:33:13mlt-yeah.... this moment I was just looking at this place :-)
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00:48:35mlt-Zagor: could you tell me from where bmp2rb that is in bitmaps.make is getting called?
00:49:49Zagorit's in the tools dir
00:50:03Zagoror, what do you mean?
00:50:06kugelmlt-: there's tools like find and grep
00:50:15Zagorkugel: not in windows :)
00:50:18 Quit bertrik (Quit: :tiuQ)
00:50:44mlt-yes, but I can't find the actual rule that triggers that header creation for bitmap
00:50:54mlt-I have find & grep in MinGW :-)
00:51:22kugelZagor: I think these tools (and some more) are requred for building rockbox
00:52:22 Quit Dreamxtreme (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
00:52:29Zagorfind and grep are not used in the build
00:52:35mlt-I think I have everything mentioned here http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/UiSimulator#Building_Windows_sim_in_Windows , but still can't compile.
00:53:20Zagormlt-: what error do you get? put it on pastebin or some such place.
00:53:28kugelat the very least grep is used by configure
00:54:06Zagorkugel: indeed
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00:54:26Zagorin my had I sort of exclude configure from the build :)
00:54:30mlt-Zagor: I simply don't have "bitmaps/rockboxlogo.h" generated. So "apps/alarm_menu.c" fails to compile.
00:56:13kugelmlt-: does "make $PWD/bitmaps/rockboxlogo.h" work?
00:56:18Zagormlt-: ok. the header files depend on the "object files" (bitmap files). so it sounds like you are not getting any bitmaps converted.
00:57:19kugelI once tried building rockbox on windows with msys/mingw but quickly gave up because I couldn't get genlang to work, so there's a can of worms out there
00:57:21mlt-kugel: it worked!
00:57:26mlt-it produced those headers
00:57:48kugelthen perhaps dependency generation is broken
00:58:08kugels/broken/not working correctly on windows/
00:58:46mlt-what can I check to help debug UIsimulator build under MS Windows?
00:58:57Zagormlt-: grep native/rockboxlogo make.dep
00:59:06kugelmake V=1 should give some useful output
00:59:14 Quit Slasheri (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
00:59:15mlt-now I'm getting undefined "LANG_ALARM_MOD_TIME_TO_GO" at apps/alarm_menu.c:116:29
00:59:27Zagorwhich target are you building for?
00:59:39sideraln1s, pixelma: changing lang strings to 'deprecated' (without quotes) does not seem to work
00:59:40mlt-62, sansaclipplus
01:00
01:00:14mlt-It finds stuff with grep native/rockboxlogo make.dep
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01:00:26Zagormlt-: that's a similar error. your lang.h is not properly created.
01:00:33kugelperhaps a \-vs-/ issue?
01:00:36Zagorwhich make are you using? gmake?
01:00:47mlt-GNU Make 3.81
01:01:02kugelor C:\-vs-/ one even
01:01:07mlt-it is named just make.exe I believe
01:01:31sideraln1s, pixelma: .../english.lang:12701:1: warning: source before line lacks quotes (deprecated)!
01:01:36mlt-I see path separators in make.dep as '/' which is good
01:02:10Zagordo you have a space in your path?
01:02:31ZagorI mean the path to your build directory
01:02:38kugelah that's also a nasty one :)
01:02:40pixelmasideral: I only knew of "" anyway
01:02:45mlt-no, I don't have spaces
01:02:58Zagorhmm
01:03:17mlt-it is "/c/workspace/rockbox/build"
01:03:25sideralpixelma: looks like n1s has to fix up that comment at the top of english.lang again :)
01:04:17 Quit kugel (Remote host closed the connection)
01:04:33sideralpixelma: Anyway, thanks for spotting this!
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01:05:05Zagormlt-: can you do "make clean" and "make" and paste the full log somewhere? it appears something is being done in the wrong order.
01:05:39mlt-Can I just recreated my build directory and call make V=1 after configure?
01:06:10Zagoryes
01:06:46sideralpixelma: hrmpf... .../english.lang:12701:1: warning: missing user!
01:07:15Zagormlt-: but I don't think V=1 helps here. it's likely a dependency issue.
01:08:44mlt-here it is http://pastebin.com/DRH5PwD3
01:09:41mlt-I can post the content of make.dep if it helps
01:09:55Zagornot yet
01:10:41kugelyea, the creator of the dependency generation script didn't add a lot debug output to it (Zagor ;-))
01:11:06Zagorwell, dependencies don't benefit much from comments
01:11:23ZagorI actually think it might be the missing svnversion that causes it
01:11:42Zagorwe use that to create a version number for the build
01:12:02Zagorand if that header file is not there, the dependency chain is broken
01:12:13mlt-I'm not sure if it is okay, but first 3 lines in make.dep are empty
01:12:45mlt-i thought it goes as 'undefined' if svnversion is not found
01:13:29kugelZagor: only few files depend on version.h (fortunately)
01:13:41 Quit mudd1 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
01:14:09Zagormlt-: it should, yes. how many lines are your lang/lang.h in the build dir?
01:14:31mlt-I don't have one
01:14:41Zagorah, of course :|
01:14:45Zagorversion.h?
01:15:53Zagorhow many lines are in make.dep?
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01:18:59Zagormlt-: ?
01:20:56 Quit avacore (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
01:21:30mlt-sorry I was away
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01:21:44mlt-90 lines in make.dep
01:21:53mlt-well 89
01:22:02mlt-is the last line with text
01:22:05Zagorwow. it's supposed to be ~75000
01:22:27mlt-hehe... then definitely something is wrong)
01:23:03mlt-this is the last line : /c/workspace/rockbox/build/apps/plugins/bitmaps/native/resistor.68x20x16.c: /c/workspace/rockbox/apps/plugins/bitmaps/native/resistor.68x20x16.bmp
01:23:03Zagormaybe multigcc.pl doesn't work on windows.
01:24:17kugelperhaps forking works differently/not at all
01:24:41mlt-I don't see any forking in multigcc.pl
01:24:56Zagorline 58
01:25:15kugelUnix programs that use fork() are usually in trouble on Windows iirc
01:25:15mlt-oh
01:26:10mlt-I guess I can try to use sequential thing and single core
01:29:12ZagorI should change multigcc.pl to not fork if $cores == 1
01:29:37mlt-I replaced fork with 0
01:29:51mlt-I still have 89 lines in make.dep
01:30:18Zagordo you have any .multigcc* files left?
01:30:34mlt-in build directory? no
01:30:50 Quit dfkt (Quit: -= SysReset 2.53=- Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc.)
01:32:04Zagormlt-: change tools/functions.make:34 to not use multigcc.pl at all. (remove "perl" "multigcc" and "−−" from the line)
01:33:08mlt-so it should read as : mkdepfile = $(2) | \
01:33:09mlt-?
01:33:12 Quit pamaury (Remote host closed the connection)
01:33:43Zagorno: mkdepfile = $(SILENT) $(CC) $(PPCFLAGS) $(OTHER_INC) -MG -MM -include config.h $(2) | \
01:34:11Zagormultigcc only splits the gcc command to multiple cores
01:35:03Zagoryou want to remove the space after SILENT too, so it's: $(SILENT)$(CC)
01:35:26mlt-ahh...
01:35:42mlt-make.dep is getting bigger
01:36:03mlt-3335 is the last line with text
01:36:25mlt-but still I get "... fatal error: lang.h: No such file ..."
01:36:33Zagoryes, that's still much too small
01:37:19mlt-and it actually looks weird
01:37:25Zagoroh, maybe you need to add "perl" in front of $(TOOLSDIR)/addtargetdir.pl in line 38
01:37:55mlt-in make.dep, I have many lines with "c:/workspace/rockbox/build/lang/lang.h \"
01:38:40Zagoryes, you should
01:38:56 Quit sideral (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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01:41:40mlt-addition of "perl" doesn't make any difference
01:42:02mlt-though I'm having "/bin/sh: /mingw/bin/gcc: Invalid argument" for some reason... I'm not sure where it comes from
01:42:05kugelI thought it should be /c/workspace/...?
01:42:25mlt-kugel: mingw stuff understands path either way
01:42:28Zagormlt-: that certainly looks interesting
01:42:56kugelmlt-: but do the other tools as well? make etc?
01:44:32Zagormlt-: you'll have to paste the gcc commandline and see what parameter mingw doesn't like
01:44:38mlt-kugel: I'm pretty sure they should... as they are built with mingw... so underlying c library or whatever supposedly takes care of it.
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01:46:17kugelisn't "/mingw/bin/gcc" the invalid parameter?
01:46:49Zagorkugel: oh, you're probably right. it's /bin/sh that says this
01:46:53mlt-kugel: no, it should be find... /mingw is mapped to /c/mingw in /etc/fstab
01:46:56*kugel assumes that path doesn't exist
01:47:09kugeloh
01:47:39mlt-I can call "/mingw/bin/gcc" no problems
01:48:00Zagorbut can you call "/bin/sh /mingw/bin/gcc" ?
01:48:29kugelyou need -C don't you?
01:50:15***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:50:50mlt-with "/bin/sh /mingw/bin/gcc" I get "/mingw/bin/gcc: /mingw/bin/gcc: No such file or directory"
01:51:15mlt-I pinpointed gcc command that results in Invalid argument
01:51:44 Quit factor (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
01:52:06mlt-i'm afraid that command line may be too long
01:52:24Zagoroh right, windows has a length limit too
01:53:25mlt-If I try to execute this line http://pastebin.com/MZChvCkq , I get invalid argument error
01:53:37kugelthat command doesn't work anyway. /bin/sh -C "/mingw/bin/gcc" should
01:54:27mlt-kugel: I mean if this was the problem, I would get another error
01:54:55mlt-I've got to go... I'll try it again later
01:55:04Zagorkugel: this is not cmd.exe
01:55:15Zagormlt-: yeah I have to go too. good luck.
01:55:22mlt-thanks for help!
01:55:41mlt-I guess it worth adding a note to Wiki
01:55:45mlt-for now
01:55:49kugelZagor: I know
01:55:56 Part Zagor
01:56:02kugelmlt-: good idea
01:56:32mlt-do you have rights to change it? Or shall I register and change it myself?
01:58:47mlt-anyway.... I'm leaving. see you later.
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06:51:21CIA-7New commit by 03kkurbjun (r29246): Fix battery charging.
06:53:33CIA-7New commit by 03kkurbjun (r29247): M:Robe 500: Use bit modifiers more.
06:55:27CIA-7r29246 build result: All green
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06:59:08CIA-7r29247 build result: All green
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09:55:02n1ssideral: just make the strings empty, "" instead, i suggested a fix for langtool yesterday but i'm not 100% sure it's ok, was hoping for a reply from rasher there
09:55:56sideraln1s: Thanks. Already did that. Good to know you're working on this −− that means I can close that bug report I was editing :)
09:56:29n1si'll try to remember to commit it tonight
09:57:02sideralcool
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09:59:06n1ssideral: also that warning about using deprecated without quotes from genlang is a bug, it should work, as it used to work and there is code in genlang to replace deprecated with "", so using "" directly is equivalent
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10:40:19sideraln1s: OK. Are you tracking / logging that bug as well?
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10:42:26n1ssideral: no
10:43:06n1si'm not really comfortable poking around in these perl scripts so i'd rather not :)
10:43:57sideralCould you log a Flyspray task? It's probably more useful if you post it rather than me...
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10:48:40sideraln1s: I've updated the patch that includes the lang-string deprecation. Could you have a quick look to check whether it looks sane? http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/11748?getfile=23295
10:50:11n1syeah, looks fine now
10:51:34sideralthanks!
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15:03:16NikolasZHi ppl, i just install rockbox to my bro ipod nano g1. All ok and many thanks for your work. Now im waiting for g4 nano :). Again ty for great software!
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15:40:39webguest741Hi guys
15:41:02webguest741i've a problem with a theme that i downloaded from the themes webpage.
15:41:26webguest741its called "fullscreen" for the ipod video 5.5 gen
15:41:42webguest741apparently its missing the sbs file, and only has the .wps file
15:42:27TorneDoes the theme cfg actually refer to an sbs file?
15:42:31Tornenot all themes have a custom statusbar..
15:42:41webguest741thus the theme is not appearing correctly with remnants of the previous theme existing after the new one is applied
15:42:56webguest741there is no reference to an sbs file in the cfg file
15:43:18webguest741however, i have used this theme in the past and i remember how it looks like
15:43:40Torneperhaps you just need to set the statusbar back to the default, non-custom one?
15:44:00webguest741i just reset the rockbox settings to default
15:44:07webguest741that's all settings, not only theme settings
15:44:21webguest741but the old theme is still appearing over the new one
15:44:44webguest741here's the theme
15:44:47webguest741http://themes.rockbox.org/index.php?themeid=153&target=ipodvideo
15:44:56Tornethe screenshot on the themes page shows it uses the non-custom statusbar
15:45:10webguest741as you can see, there are supposed to be custom elements on the sides
15:45:21TorneThat's the WPS
15:45:29Tornethere's no SBS
15:45:40webguest741precisely
15:45:49Torneer, no, not precisely
15:45:50webguest741so the sbs from the previous theme is being used
15:46:07Tornedo you mean the while playing screen doesn't look right?
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15:46:13Tornebecuase that's nothing to do witht he SBS
15:46:16Torne(probably)
15:46:29webguest741i reckon so
15:46:35Torneyou reckon?
15:46:38webguest741as i have used the theme in the past without problems
15:46:42Tornedoes your while playing screen look like that screenshot, or not? :)
15:46:50Torneand does your menu look like the menu screenshot?
15:46:57Tornewith the small text statusbar at the top?
15:47:08webguest741nope
15:47:12webguest741the menu one definitely doesn't
15:47:54Tornewhat *does* it look like, then?
15:48:11webguest741the wps does though
15:48:23webguest741the status bar is at the bottom
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15:49:09Tornebut it's right other than that?
15:49:25webguest741yes
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15:49:42Torne..so the only problem is that the statusbar is at the bottom instead of the top?
15:49:44webguest741the icons aren't there either
15:49:45Tornethat's a setting
15:49:48Tornechange it.
15:49:58Torneas are whether the volume/battery are icons or numbers
15:50:08Tornehttp://download.rockbox.org/daily/manual/rockbox-ipodvideo/rockbox-buildch9.html#x12-1570009
15:50:10webguest741ah got it
15:50:13webguest741for the icons part
15:51:06webguest741i think i see what's the problem
15:51:35webguest741the base theme i used last time is not the same one as the one i have now
15:51:43Torne"base theme"?
15:51:51webguest741yes the sbs file
15:52:09Torneyou said you reset the settings to defaults, though
15:52:14Tornewhcih would've stopped using an SBS
15:52:18Torneas cabbiev2 doesn't have one
15:52:31webguest741and since "fullscreen" doesn't have a wps it uses the sbs
15:52:37Torneer
15:52:44webguest741i didn't reset it the last time i used it
15:52:46Tornei think you have your terms confused
15:52:57webguest741how so?
15:52:58Tornefullscreen doesn't have a custom statusbar (sbs)
15:53:03Torneit *does* have a custom while playing screen (wps)
15:53:09webguest741i understand that
15:53:16Tornethat's the exact opposite of what you just said
15:53:38webguest741i believe the confusion is from this line "and since "fullscreen" doesn't have a wps it uses the sbs"
15:53:54webguest741i meant that it uses the sbs from the previous theme, that has one.
15:54:16Torneyes, lots of themes predate the introduction of custom statusbars
15:54:20Torneso they don't set that setting at all.
15:54:31webguest741and since the last time i used it, i didn't reset the settings to default, it looks different than now
15:54:41TorneIf you reset your settings, or load the cabbiev2 theme, everything will go back to how it's supposed to be by default
15:54:44webguest741mm i see
15:54:49Torneand then if you choose fullscreen, it should look like the screenshots on the theme site
15:55:01TorneBut yes, if you had a different theme before that *did* have an SBS then it will look different.
15:55:18webguest741i did a reset again, and it now looks like what it should
15:55:38Torneif you want it to look like it did before you'll have to remember whcih theme's SBS you were using by accident :)
15:55:50webguest741yep, and i just found it :)
15:55:54webguest741its AW200
15:56:03webguest741are you by any chance using the same player as i am?
15:56:15 Quit hebz0rl (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
15:57:11 Quit GeekShad0w (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
15:58:46Tornei use lots of players ;)
15:58:58webguest741ah i see
15:59:12webguest741so i suppose that you're great with rockbox then?
16:00
16:00:14CtcpIgnored 6 channel CTCP requests in 3 minutes and 8 seconds at the last flood
16:00:14*Torne shrugs. He's a developer, so knows how it works :)
16:00:36webguest741cool
16:01:16webguest741i'm keen on developing my own theme. but i need a program that can convert .ttf to .fnt
16:01:22webguest741so that i can use it in rockbox
16:02:02Tornehttp://www.rockbox.org/wiki/CreateFonts
16:02:06TorneThis is explained on the wiki :)
16:02:20webguest741oh thanks
16:02:53webguest741pardon me, i prefer to use irc channels for questions
16:03:14webguest741as i know there are kind and skilled people like yourself
16:04:48gevaertsYou mean you don't value other people's time?
16:04:58gevaertsPardon me for not pardonning you then
16:05:26webguest741i'm not sure i understand you gevaerts
16:06:17gevaertsAsking here means someone has to spend time to help you, searching the wiki or the manual not
16:06:23webguest741you're saying that by asking questions on the irc channel that can be answered elsewhere is a waste of other people's time?
16:06:31gevaertsyes
16:06:33gevaertsclearly
16:07:00webguest741true, but no one has the obligation to answer my query
16:07:08gevaertsIf you don't find an answer, asking here is fine, but if you can't be bothered to look, you're arrogant
16:07:18webguest741of course i thank anyone who does
16:07:43webguest741i apologise if i came across as arrogant
16:07:51webguest741but that was not my intent
16:08:17webguest741i'll be sure to check the wiki next time :)
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16:08:54webguest741i did however, search the forums and the wiki for my first problem that i asked torne
16:08:54gevaertsThanks :)
16:09:20webguest741the second, apparently unwarranted question, was just a small spin off
16:09:34webguest741that i thought of asking since we're on the subject on themes
16:10:20webguest741so no arrogance there, perhaps just a little oversight :)
16:10:40webguest741its getting pretty late where i am now, and i have school tomorrow
16:11:26webguest741so i'll be leaving, now, and i thank you and torne for your advice.
16:11:30webguest741goodbye
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16:52:37*[Saint] dislikes themes that forget to default values they don't apply but other themes might.
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16:53:11[Saint]...leads to all sorts of cock-ups when applying themes, or the need to revert to cabbie in between each time.
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16:53:55Torne[Saint]: to be fair the SBS setting didn't *exist* when many of our themes were last uploaded :)
16:54:12[Saint]well, yes...this is true.
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16:56:37evilnick_BPlus you wouldn't want *ALL* settings to return to default on theme change
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19:19:05Aylahello
19:19:14Aylacould anybody help me with this?
19:19:19Aylahttp://www.rockbox.org/wiki/CodecPerformanceComparison#Portal_Player_40ARM7TDMI_41
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19:19:34AylaI don't really understand what the percents mean
19:19:42Aylaand what's the Hz value
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19:20:49AlexPThe MHz value is the processor speed that is needed to play realtime
19:21:14AlexPAnd the % realtime is how fast it plays relative to the max speed of the processor
19:21:37AlexPSo to play without skipping, it needs to be 100% realtime (plus a little bit for the rest of Rockbox to run)
19:22:52Aylaok, that's interesting
19:22:57AlexPso the lower the MHz value (and therefore the higher the % realtime value) the more efficient the codec
19:23:37AlexPIn reality you need maybe 110% realtime for skip free playback, although if you use lots of DSP such as equalizer then this might change
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19:24:28Aylaare there tests with mp2a and mp1a?
19:24:39AlexP% realtime means that if a song is 3 minutes long and you have 200% realtime, then Rockbox takes 1 minute 30 to decode it
19:25:06LambdaCalculus37Ayla: MP2 and MP1 audio? No, I don't believe so. If you want to conduct such tests, feel free to.
19:25:08AlexPNot unless they are on the wiki somewhere
19:25:10Aylathanks for the explanation :)
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19:25:39AylaI'd like to do something with a ... 3 MIPS ARM chip
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19:25:56Aylait's nowhere near powerful enough to decode audio, it seems
19:26:39LambdaCalculus37Ayla: 3 MIPS? You sure it's not 3 MHz?
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19:26:55Aylaofficially 23,5MHz
19:27:23Aylabut it uses 2MB of SRAM shared memory, without cache, and has the lowest priority on it
19:27:36Aylaso it ends being around 3 MIPS
19:28:00Torneexternal ram?
19:28:15Aylayes. That's the sound coprocessor of the dreamcast
19:29:09TorneYou should be able to do some trivial codecs, but probably not anything psychoacoustic :)
19:30:08TorneThe PortalPlayers have a slightly crappy cache fitted outside the main die, *and* have internal ram to store parts of the codec code and some of the workign data
19:30:19Torneand they still need the speeds listed int eh wiki
19:30:44Aylaah, so they're limited too by a crappy hardware? That's interesting
19:30:57Tornewell it's better than *no* cache
19:31:03Tornewhcih is what's standard fro ARM7TDMI :)
19:31:09Aylaclearly
19:31:51Torneisn't there a DSP core in the dreamcast as well?
19:32:14Tornethat would be how you normally do FFT-based codecs on tiny chips
19:32:22Aylathere is one, yes
19:32:32Aylabut it is a bit special, and not very known
19:32:59Tornealmsot all DSP cores are a bit special and not very documented :)
19:33:11Aylawell, ok :)
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19:33:28Aylaactually, MAME emulates it, so there is at least a bit of documentation
19:33:51Tornetechnically if MAME emulates it *correctly* then that's a complete specification right there :)
19:34:20AylaI said "documentation" :p
19:34:46AylaI did have a look at it, it's very obscure
19:35:02Torneanyway, you are likely to be limited by memory speed there
19:35:21Tornei'd be surprised if anything like mpeg was realistically possible without heroic efforts
19:35:43Torneiirc games tended to do ADPCM which is really cheap but only gives you 4:1ish
19:36:04Aylathe hardware can decode ADPCM
19:36:23Aylabut those are used mostly for sound effects
19:36:34Aylafor music we used either CDDA or mp3/ogg
19:36:46Tornei doubt our codec code is going to be much help to you, anyway
19:36:52Tornenot to run directly on the sound core.
19:37:24Aylacode for what?
19:37:54Torne..for our codec implementations?
19:37:59Tornei assumed that was what you're interested in
19:38:36Aylawell, currently I'm only trying to gather information, about the possibility of this
19:38:39 Quit LambdaCalculus37 (Quit: lunch over work time now!)
19:38:54Tornewell, it's very hard to know whether it's possible without doing it.
19:39:11Torneyou'd have to try :)
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19:39:36Tornethe real-use-case effect of having slow shared memory might be a huge problem or might not be that bad
19:40:03Torneif you were decoding mp3 then the host cpu would be touching the shared soudn memory less often, since mp3 data is more dense than ADPCM or whatever..
19:40:05AylaI guess I have to try yes, but if I try I want to choose the codec that suits that best before
19:40:14Torneso you may win more bus transactions in reality
19:40:27TorneProbably *no* modern codec suits that hardware
19:41:00Aylayes I guess so, that's why I was asking for performance of mpeg1a and mpeg2a
19:41:10Tornenobody does layer 1
19:41:38Aylaah. ok :)
19:42:00Tornewell, it's pretty rare anyway
19:42:16Torneand i'm not sure that it's noticably cheaper than layer 2
19:42:47AylaI heard mpeg2a is much cheaper to decode than mp3
19:42:48Torneheh,w e do have some benchmark results for it actually
19:42:53Tornenot on that hardware
19:42:59Tornebut the ratio is still probably reasonable
19:43:32Torneon i.mx31 mp3 requires ~30MHz, mp1/2 require ~25MHz
19:43:50TorneThis might just be that the layer1/2 decoder hasn't been optimised as heavily
19:44:30Tornethe ratio is pretty constnat across the different platforms on our wiki.
19:44:44Torneso, yeah, at least using *our* implementation layer3 is only 20% slower or so
19:44:57Tornewhich probably isn't enough to make a difference to whether it'll work for you or not
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19:45:40Aylawell, Musepack seems more interesting than mpeg2a here
19:45:57*Torne is leaving for now, anyway ;)
19:46:23Aylaok, thanks for the tips
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21:00:45kugelthomasjfox: hey!
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21:00:58thomasjfoxkugel: hey. Wait just some more seconds ;)
21:01:29thomasjfoxkugel: My box crashed real hard before doing my first useful commit.
21:01:54thomasjfoxkugel: Trying again now, removed some RAM. This hardware issue is starting to suck :o)
21:02:03kugelyour first commit *was* useful, the website needs it to show your realname in the svn log :)
21:02:17thomasjfoxhehe
21:02:36pixelmais any of the supported GoGears a flash target? I saw one from a hopefully to be colleague today but I didn't see any other specifications than "GoGear", not any of these numbers
21:03:06gevaertsOne of the GoGears is *very* similar to the e200 IIRC
21:03:20thomasjfoxkugel: The box crashed so hard it didn't even boot afterwards for several minutes. It has a POST display onboard and it showed really strange things... Stuck in SMBus initialization. wtf?
21:03:42pixelmagevaerts: hmm, I may have a look at the config file(s)
21:05:30CIA-7New commit by 03thomasjfox (r29248): Initial maemo platform support ...
21:06:08*thomasjfox crosses his fingers for no "red"...
21:07:01thomasjfoxhey gevaerts
21:07:32thomasjfoxgevaerts: Any idea how we should proceed with the "debian" directory?
21:07:53gevaertshm
21:08:51pixelmagevaerts: #define MODEL_NAME "Philips GoGear SA200" <−− in the gogearsa9200 config file - is the missing 9 a typo?
21:09:22gevaertspixelma: ah, you found the one bug that's blocking it from stable :)
21:09:45pixelmahmm?
21:09:53gevaertsYes, that looks wrong
21:10:00gevaertsI think
21:10:48CIA-7r29248 build result: All green
21:10:55thomasjfoxyeeeaahhh
21:11:39kugelthomasjfox: impressive :)
21:12:46thomasjfoxFunny how subversion detected a "copy" from hosted/sdl/button-sdl.h to hosted/maemo/maemo-thread.h :o)
21:13:18thomasjfoxkugel: So how's things? Busy with university?
21:13:32kugelyea
21:13:42kugel4 exams this week
21:13:47thomasjfoxOuch
21:14:55*pixelma suggests switching channels for this though ;)
21:15:23kugelthomasjfox: IIRC that's actually git detecting it, and git svn passing this info to svn
21:15:37thomasjfoxI guessed so because you weren't able to finish the ucontext stuff yet
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21:19:00kugelthomasjfox: congratulations for that one :)
21:19:49thomasjfoxkugel: Thanks ;) btw: What should we do about the cabbiev2 800x480 theme?
21:20:02thomasjfoxIt still has viewport bugs but is better than nothing at the moment
21:20:56thomasjfoxThis would give others a chance to look into it. On the other hand these are large binary files to bloat SVN. Guess the background picture won't change though...
21:22:10kugelsomeone needs to work on it :) I just did a very basic&preliminary port to have something to show off at the DevConPubBerlin ;)
21:22:14AlexPIf we have both then could we get android to do rotation?
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21:23:34kugelit should be possible with some effort
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21:23:53AlexPI'm not terribly bothered :)
21:27:11thomasjfoxso commit it? It's 2,3mb of .bmp files
21:27:55thomasjfoxNot that the 480x800 gfx is smaller :)
21:27:59bertrikDoes anyone know how the attempt to compile rockbox with clang went so far?
21:28:03AlexPWe should have a cabbie for each target - if the images can't be reused from elsewhere, then yeah
21:28:59thomasjfoxBiggest part is the "backdrop" anyway
21:29:31thomasjfoxI'm just thinking if we switch to windowed mode in the future, we would need something like 800x462 instead of 800x480
21:29:33AlexPbertrik: clang won't cross compile, no?
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21:29:50bertrikyes, but I know Zagor tried it on a simulation build too
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21:30:34AlexPah right
21:30:39gevaertsAs far as I know he got sidetracked and he's now turning rockbox into lots of semi-standalone libraries with well defined APIs
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21:31:31CIA-7New commit by 03sideral (r29249): Make enable-autoresume option more consistent with other settings. ...
21:31:34CIA-7New commit by 03sideral (r29250): Do not update resume information and do not log statistics when a ...
21:31:39CIA-7New commit by 03sideral (r29251): Add option to resume next track on automatic track change ...
21:32:23kugelthomasjfox: not sure if we need a separate cabbiev2 for this 18 pixels
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21:34:34thomasjfoxkugel: Any idea what happens if the backdrop is slightly larger than the screen? If we loose some pixels at the top, no problem. If we loose them at the bottom, it would affect the buttons
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21:35:59thomasjfoxgevaerts: I have an idea about the debian directory. I'll try to create a "maemo" directory and put it below that. So it shouldn't interfere with "real" debian packaging
21:36:14CIA-7r29249 build result: All green
21:36:30gevaertsthomasjfox: that helps on our side, but it's a bit awkward when you actually need it
21:36:55kugelthomasjfox: IIRC we just load it partly
21:37:10thomasjfoxgevaerts: Well, you can't specify an alternative "debian" directory to the debian build tools AFAIK
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21:37:17gevaertsthomasjfox: indeed not
21:37:31gevaertsWhich means I don't really know...
21:37:46thomasjfoxI quickly checked and didn't find something
21:38:11thomasjfoxAnyhow I someone turns up and says "ahh, this is easy", we can still move it
21:38:18gevaertsMaybe people in #maemo have ideas?
21:38:25thomasjfoxI someone = if someone
21:38:38thomasjfoxlet me try
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21:40:03pixelmagevaerts: shall I fix the GoGear typo? The keypad define uses 9200 as well
21:40:17gevaertspixelma: that's probably a good idea
21:41:42CIA-7r29251 build result: 4 errors, 0 warnings (sideral committed)
21:43:52sideral Interesting. What's the configuration / make target that would have caught this pre-commit?
21:43:59pixelmaI'll wait a bit for other people's commit series to be finished
21:45:08pixelmasideral: (D) database tool probably ;)
21:45:25amiconnthomasjfox: I noticed a slight annoyance with rockbox on n900: It does not update screen content when its shown in the task switcher. Other applications do that
21:45:32gevaertssideral: the database tool, probably for any target
21:46:02sideralpixelma, gevaerts: I figured, but how is that tool built? Never came across that option
21:46:13gevaertssideral: D in configure
21:46:27sideralah OK, thanks gevaerts
21:46:34sideralwill be fixed presently...
21:46:44thomasjfoxamiconn: Yes, this is currently by design: The SDL screen updates cost -a lot- of CPU. Currently it can only detect it looses the input focus if you put it in the background and do something else
21:46:44pixelmathat's what I said... :|
21:47:29thomasjfoxamiconn: I thought about a separate OS thread for the screen updates and do I just once a second or so if the input focus is lost
21:48:04 Quit L-Strife89 (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
21:48:15amiconnHmm, it's not possible to detect task switcher?
21:49:01thomasjfoxamiconn: We use SDL for the GUI stuff, probably we need to gather this information through other channels
21:49:09thomasjfoxamicoon: Guess we can find this out via dbus :)
21:49:21thomasjfoxamiconn: I'll put a note on my TODO list
21:50:30CIA-7New commit by 03sideral (r29252): Fix red: Do not compile autoresume() function for the database tool.
21:51:16sideralpixelma: ah, missed that in your message, sorry
21:52:00pixelmashould have spelled it "(D)atabase tool" probably ;)
21:54:18pixelmahmm, if autoresume is part of the database, shouldn't it be included in the database tool (it's meant as a standalone tool to create your database on the PC). Although... you can't listen to your files with it... hmm
21:54:37sideralpixelma: yes, that what my fix-up commit fixes
21:54:44 Quit ender` (Quit: On the other hand, you have different fingers.)
21:55:27pixelmaI was questioning that, but I admit that I only read the commit message here so far
21:55:27CIA-7r29252 build result: All green
21:55:49thomasjfoxamiconn: No dbus signal for the task switcher. We have to detect this by another way
21:57:02sideralpixelma: Ah, I understand what you mean. Yes, the data parsing for the resume position should be included in the db tool. There was just an auxiliary function in metadata.c that didn't belong in the tool
21:57:36sideralpixelma: I'm done with my commits, you're good to go with yours
22:00
22:00:09pixelmaaha, ok
22:01:33pixelmasideral: is this autoresume disabled for all targets that can not load the database to RAM?
22:02:12sideralNo. But it shouldn't depend on the ability to load the DB to RAM.
22:02:38sideral(if by "disabled" you mean "not compiled in")
22:03:31pixelmajust trying to figure out if we could exclude the lang strings for those as I think that's where the small binsize increase for them. Ok, not that way it seems (there's already a feature for database in RAM which I thought could be used)
22:03:42 Quit Stummi (Quit: Bye!)
22:04:16 Quit kugel (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
22:04:17pixelmaadd "comes from" at the appropriate place
22:05:49sideralI noticed the binsize increase as well. Any comments on whether it is in an acceptable order of magnitude and where it might come from (except for the lang string additions)?
22:06:52 Join Keripo [0] (~Keripo@eng442.wireless-resnet.upenn.edu)
22:08:00gevaertssideral: utils/analysis/bloat-o-meter.py :)
22:11:24sideralgevaerts: nice :)
22:12:31 Quit mordocai_afk (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
22:13:03 Join mordocai_afk [0] (~mordocai@66.119.9.243)
22:13:49***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:14:04CIA-7New commit by 03thomasjfox (r29253): Add cabbie theme for 800x480 ...
22:17:57 Quit Keripo (Quit: Leaving.)
22:18:27CIA-7r29253 build result: All green
22:20:18pixelmasideral: what defines if the feature is compiled in or not? Is there a HAVE_AUTORESUME then or so
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22:24:54 Join delt [0] (1000@ftp.deimos.ca)
22:24:56deltHello
22:25:06 Quit {phoenix} (Remote host closed the connection)
22:25:31deltquick question, recording "clipping light" on sansa e260 ..... what are "main" and "remote" units?
22:25:53deltthe docs (pdf) says the screen flashes to indicate clipping, but not much more..
22:26:10 Quit benedikt93 (Quit: Bye ;))
22:26:25AlexPSome players have an lcd remote
22:26:39AlexPSo if this is included in the e200 manual it is by mistake
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22:28:44deltcopypasta from earlier/other players? =)
22:28:51deltalso, "remote" lcd?
22:29:06deltuh i mean lcd "remote"
22:29:16pixelmaa remote with its own display
22:29:27deltah, remote control, which controls the player?
22:29:35pixelmayes
22:30:19deltah ok, thanks for the info. the e2x0's (mechanical) scroll wheel lights up, i thought that could be used as peak/clip indicator...?
22:32:22pixelmait probably could as Rockbox is able to control it separately (e.g. there's a setting to turn it off completely), I don't think anyone did the needed changes though and I never heard someone suggesting this before
22:33:11deltoh btw, feature request: could "wheel light timeout" be set to zero seconds? ie. lights up on input, then immediately shuts down, without waiting >= 1 sec.
22:33:45 Quit kugel (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
22:33:57deltsettings are: on, off (always on/off) then start at 1 sec. (stay on for x sec. after last input)
22:34:56deltat 1sec. it's just confusing
22:36:03 Join kugel [0] (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel)
22:36:27bertrikI don't see the confusion about it
22:36:52deltand/or annoying
22:36:53 Quit kugel (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
22:37:26deltand it's nice to have the circle light up, can show you if the player is frozen etc etc (+ it looks cool)
22:38:20deltexcept keeping it lit up after last input (even 1 sec.) is ... well, like i said, either annoying or confusing :/
22:38:57deltand i don't really feel like messing in the code right now... so, hence the feature request =)
22:39:02thomasjfoxgevaerts: paultag might help us with the debian stuff. He's on to something
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22:42:23CIA-7New commit by 03pixelma (r29254): Correct typo in the Philipps SA9200 config file.
22:44:40deltanyway, thanks for the info
22:44:41 Part delt
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22:46:07linuxstbDoes anyone object to changing the touchscreen cabbies so that the play/pause icon is reversed, showing the action taken when it is pressed, rather than the status? i.e. when playing, the pause icon is shown, and when paused, the playback icon is shown.
22:46:15*linuxstb isn't sure about the other playback modes though...
22:46:32CIA-7r29254 build result: All green
22:47:18linuxstbAlso, shouldn't configure be showing a list of RaaA targets, instead of just one (200) with a follow-up question?
22:48:53AlexPlinuxstb: no objection, it seems more natural and what other (at least android) media players do
22:48:56AlexPand yes
22:49:37thomasjfoxgevaerts: Something like this: http://raphaelhertzog.com/2010/09/27/different-dependencies-between-debian-and-ubuntu-but-common-source-package/
22:50:15gevaertshm, maybe, yes
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22:52:37 Quit efyx (Quit: Quitte)
22:52:59linuxstbAlexP: The slight complication is that that icon is actually playback status - including stop, fw & rew...
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22:55:42thomasjfoxgevaerts: Damn, we just came up with the idea to use git branches and keep distro-specific debian/ directories on different branches
22:55:52thomasjfoxgevaerts: That won't work for rockbox right now
22:56:08gevaertsI'm not convinced that would work well anyway
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22:57:23AlexPlinuxstb: Yes, and having to long press play to stop is completely non obvious at the moment
22:57:29thomasjfoxgevaerts: What do you think about committing the "debian" directory in the maemo-specific state right now? Later on we can improve it with automatic distro detection if someone feels like writting debian build rules for RaaA
22:57:46gevaertsThat probably makes most sense
22:58:00saratogai think without cache you'd probably need 200+ MHz to decode MP3
22:58:17saratogaon arm7tdmi
22:58:50linuxstbAlexP: Ah, I didn't think of that. So we should have a stop icon/button?
22:59:37AlexPI think so - I think we need play/pause (as you suggested), stop and ffd/rwd
23:00
23:01:47 Quit kevku (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.2 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
23:03:05*linuxstb sees there are two target_id=60s in configure...
23:03:23 Join Jerom [0] (~jerome@79.132.59.245)
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23:04:48 Quit leavittx (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
23:07:37kugelAlexP: long play is how it works on my other rockbox targets
23:07:49AlexPkugel: On other touchscreen?
23:07:51CIA-7New commit by 03dave (r29255): Fix a duplicate target_id
23:08:12kugelI meant my e200 and fuze actually
23:08:25AlexPSure, lack of buttons don't hep there
23:08:40AlexPBut for touchscreen you expect to press what you see
23:08:45kugelah wait, I lied about the e200
23:08:52AlexPAnd long pressing on play to stop feels very wrong on touchscreen
23:09:07kugelI agree it's not obvious, but on the wps there's also lack of space
23:09:16AlexPsame as clicking play to pause feels wrong
23:09:39CIA-7New commit by 03thomasjfox (r29256): debian directory needed to build maemo packages ...
23:09:44AlexPThere are some other big bits, I don't think a reorganisation to add a stop icon would be impossible
23:10:41kugelmost other media players don't even offer a stop option so I thought it would be ok
23:10:50AlexPalso, ffd/rwd should be permanently visible and not hidden behind the logo IMO
23:10:56 Quit plux (Quit: qux)
23:11:13AlexPkugel: Trouble is, stopping is the only way I found of getting rid of the notification icon if I wasn't using Rockbox
23:11:48kugelwe could hide the icon
23:12:01kugel(on pause)
23:12:06kugelthat's probably what people expect
23:12:17AlexPIf it is paused, is it using up any resources as opposed to being stopped?
23:12:18CIA-7r29255 build result: All green
23:12:19Bagderthat's what other players do
23:12:41 Join TheSeven [0] (~TheSeven@rockbox/developer/TheSeven)
23:13:10linuxstbShouldn't different RaaAs have different target_ids?
23:13:13kugelAlexP: I'm not sure, I don't know the internals, but I suspect there's not a big difference
23:14:00AlexPkugel: I'll see if I can find out, some sort of task manager should tell me :)
23:14:13kugelthe task manager shows no difference
23:14:36AlexPOK, then cool - hiding the icon would satisfy me
23:14:37kugelI checked that already long ago :)
23:15:06thomasjfoxkugel: I've one more thing to upstream: Basic plugin support for RaaA
23:15:24linuxstb(and also different config files?)
23:15:44thomasjfoxkugel: The changes to apps/plugin/SOURCES are a bit messy I think
23:16:27CIA-7r29256 build result: All green
23:16:27kugelsince plugins are in a horrible situation w.r.t. to touchscreen I didn't bother with them for android yet
23:16:30AlexPgevaerts: r.e. android signing, could the builds be done on clients then the server do the signing on the uploaded build?
23:16:34thomasjfoxkugel: Look at "git diff master..maemo-port" to see what I mean
23:16:46gevaertsAlexP: maybe. I'm not a specialist
23:16:50kugeln900 has a keyboard so it's perhaps not as bad
23:16:51AlexPI think lots of plugins don't make much sense for app
23:17:01linuxstbAlexP: Do any?
23:17:05kugelwe could have a seperate SOURCES for RaaA
23:17:09thomasjfoxkugel: Well, the credits screen is a must have I guess?
23:17:21kugelI most probably don't want to enable all plugins anyway
23:17:26AlexPlinuxstb: a few maybe, like random_folder_advance, credits
23:17:45kugelpictureflow :)
23:17:56domonokyDOOM ! :-)
23:18:05AlexPyeah, pictureflow for them as like it
23:19:29thomasjfoxkugel: We could if we apply this patch: http://pastie.org/1542688
23:20:19kugels/PLATFORM_HOSTED/PLATFORM_MAEMO/ :)
23:20:41 Quit TheLemonMan (Quit: free(me))
23:20:47thomasjfoxThe other platforms also break because of missing key bindings
23:20:51thomasjfoxAtleast the SDL platform
23:21:17kugelremember _HOSTED includes the simulator
23:21:22thomasjfoxah fuck
23:21:25kugelall of them
23:21:33thomasjfoxnot again :)
23:21:36 Quit stephen__ (Quit: Leaving)
23:21:52kugel:)
23:22:18linuxstbShouldn't that use #ifdef APPLICATION?
23:22:39sideralpixelma: The feature is supported when the DB is compiled in and (currently) only for SWCODEC.
23:23:07thomasjfoxlinuxstb: Yes it should...
23:23:22kugelif it should include android, then yes
23:23:54 Quit domonoky (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
23:24:05linuxstbkugel: Well, shouldn't all RaaA targets be the same wrt plugins?
23:24:06thomasjfoxkugel: Would you mind if I enable plugins on android?
23:24:18kugelI still want someone to work on touchscreen interfaces for the plugins before enabling them ;)
23:24:55thomasjfoxWell, most of the plugins get disabled by the patch. Just the basics like credits or pictureflow get built
23:25:05*linuxstb would like to clean up configure, so it has separate menu entries for each RaaA instance (SDL, Android, Maemo4, Maemo5)
23:25:15sideralpixelma: the DB has a HAVE_TAGCACHE toggle, which by default is set for almost all targets IIRC
23:25:18thomasjfoxlinuxstb: I wouldn't midn
23:25:21kugelI'd rather have a separate SOURCES.application or so instead of this #ifdef hell
23:26:02kugellinuxstb: I don't think separating maemo 4 and 5 is useful
23:26:30linuxstbkugel: They are different builds, hence different targets. They need different build environments that should be checked for.
23:26:32thomasjfoxkugel: Good point. OTOH people might miss to modify SOURCES.application if they modify SOURCES
23:26:54kugellinuxstb: IIRC you use the same environment
23:27:16kugelbut right, the different builds is a valid point
23:27:25linuxstbYes, but with the version set to 4 or 5. (IIUC)
23:27:46linuxstbSo if a user tries to build maemo4 when the sdk is configured for maemo5, configure should complain.
23:27:57thomasjfoxlinuxstb: You would need to extend the debian/rules, too if you split it up
23:28:01kugelI think a unified build is possible, at the expense of armv7 optimizations (?)
23:28:40kugel(obviously I know next to nothing about building for maemo)
23:29:37kugelthomasjfox: SOURCES hardly change, I expect we can keep up with other people changing it
23:29:50thomasjfoxkugel: ok
23:30:04thomasjfoxkugel: So that approach is better
23:31:12thomasjfoxkugel: I'll give your app-disable-codec-buffering branch a quick spin
23:31:15kugelplugins are a bit tricky w.r.t. to the C library (see your simple_viewer.c hunk)
23:31:35kugelsome make library calls via rb, some use #define
23:31:48kugeland some system header also use #define, which in the end just clashes
23:31:49 Quit Keripo (Quit: Leaving.)
23:32:58kugelIMO it would be better to expose the C library calls without rb (direct calls on hosted, wrappers for rb-> on daps)
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23:37:46 Join Llorean [0] (~DarkkOne@rockbox/user/Llorean)
23:38:35LloreanWere the recent autoresume commits discussed in more detail on IRC instead of in the ML thread? Last I was aware, several devs were still objecting, and it didn't really have that much support.
23:38:55LloreanIf the situation really changed I'd appreciate a reference to what day to look at the IRC logs for.
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23:39:23thomasjfoxkugel: Codec switching works like a charm with the patch from the "app-disable-codec-buffering" branch
23:39:27kugelLlorean: the FS task describes his new proposal
23:39:39kugelit has changed
23:39:51kugelthomasjfox: awesome :)
23:40:06Lloreankugel: The commit is still in line with the old stuff we were objecting to though
23:41:20pamaurywhat happen when you disable the MMU on arm ? (with respect to caching mostly)
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23:42:14thomasjfoxkugel: Mixing mp3, wav and mikmod works fine, too. Care to commit upstream? :)
23:44:21kugelLlorean: I don't see that
23:44:47Lloreankugel: Care to explain how it addresses any of the objections I had re it s requirement to use the database, or needless automation?
23:44:57LloreanIt still does both of those.
23:45:29LloreanThe only thing it changes is that it now has less options listed for configuring the automation.
23:45:35kugelthat were your objections, not mine
23:45:41AlexPI thought most people accepted the use of the database?
23:45:41LloreanAnd removes the skip prevention.
23:45:59AlexPI'd still love it if it could just add tracks as needed so I don't have the full database going :)
23:46:01LloreanAlexP: I don't know. I didn't see any further discussion in the thread.
23:46:07LloreanIt seems to me like it was "silently" added.
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23:46:40LloreanI thought there was that whole discussion about "if people object, there need to be X speaking in favor more than objectors" idea outstanding, etc.
23:46:51kugelLlorean: he discussed on irc, and he has made another post to the ML, and gave it a few days. that's not even close to silent
23:47:03Lloreankugel: I didn't see another post to the mailing list at all recently
23:47:39LloreanHe did post a new thread on the 21st.
23:48:02LloreanBut I didn't see anyone then speak up in new agreement with it after the changes.
23:48:09 Join Keripo [0] (~Keripo@SEAS265.wlan.seas.upenn.edu)
23:48:36LloreanAnd at that time his post was a summary of the contention points
23:48:40kugelthen you were not active enough to see it. the proposal he implemented and committed is almost two weeks old
23:48:45LloreanHe never posted to the mailing list (as far as emails I received) about the new changes in his patch
23:49:13kugelthomasjfox: sure, soonish :S
23:49:19Lloreankugel: So I have to restate that I still object every singe time a change is made to the task now? Shouldn't it be assumed that if my objections aren't addressed (and they weren't, at all) that I still object?
23:49:21sideralLlorean: This was indeed discussed at length here on IRC
23:49:35Lloreansideral: I thought you were the one who kept saying we should discuss it on that thread...
23:49:49kugelmy objections were addressed so I'm fine with it
23:49:52Lloreansideral: Did you achieve significant agreement then? Can you link me to where in the archives this happened?
23:50:20kugelwell, I still would like to see a unified autoresume+bookmarks solution, but that's too much to ask for currently
23:50:23sideralWell, you didn't reply to my last few messages on the mailing list or in the tracker. I was actually expecting you to chime in
23:50:40Lloreansideral: I didn't receive anything more recent than Jan 21st
23:50:48LloreanAnd that message only contained a link to your summary of contention points.
23:51:07sideralLlorean: Aren't you subscribed to the relevant tracker item?
23:51:18LloreanConsidering you very obviously didn't address any of the points I objected to other than "too many options" I don't see why you would assume I agree due to silence.
23:51:39Lloreansideral: Yes, but for whatever reason, I didn't receive mails on the last three updates to the task.
23:51:41sideralLet me find you that IRC discussion, just a sec
23:51:56LloreanAnd again, didn't you say we should hold the discussion on the mailing list?
23:51:59 Quit Keripo (Quit: Leaving.)
23:52:06LloreanI assumed you meant that, and expected more discussion to happen there before anything happened.
23:52:07thomasjfoxkugel: Would be nice to have it in before Sunday, if your time schedule permits :)
23:52:17kugelLlorean: that's because you are not subscribed...
23:52:30Lloreankugel: I was in the past, I received updated to the task previously...
23:52:53LloreanAt least I thought I was.
23:53:00kugelLlorean: point me to the task's history item that shows you are/were
23:53:21thomasjfoxwho do I need to bug to get more privileges in FS to close my own bug?
23:53:29gevaertsthomasjfox: Zagor
23:53:37sideralLlorean: I actually said that we should discuss one particular topic on the mailing list, which is your presumption that I do not want to fix the bookmarking system
23:53:43Lloreankugel: As I said I thought I was. Perhaps I made a mistake.
23:53:45thomasjfoxgevaerts: Still waiting for that wiki mail :o)
23:54:05Lloreankugel: As I said though, silence after objection should not be assumed for a change of attitude. It's silly if you haven't addressed the objections to assume the attitude changed.
23:54:11AlexPthomasjfox: bug the same person for that :)
23:54:20gevaertsthomasjfox: try to get here between 10 and 16 or so during the work week. He's usually online then
23:54:25kugelIMO if you feel to strong about it you should be subscribed to the FS item and search recent irc logs for the keywords (not necessarily reading the logs). the ML isn't our only communications channel
23:54:29Lloreansideral: You actually responded to several of my objections, not just that one, with "take your objections to the mailing list"
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23:55:15Lloreankugel: I still haven't had my question answered - what was the vote? How many changed from against to for to give it enough numbers?
23:55:20LloreanIf that happened, it should be simple enough to answer.
23:55:27sideralLlorean: I know full well that not all of your objections were addressed. It should be clear that we do not agree on everything.
23:55:46Lloreansideral: My question though, is who changed over? How many peoples' objections were addressed?
23:55:49thomasjfoxgevaerts: Will try. Though I usually stay out of IRC at work...
23:55:53sideralLlorean: I'm sorry for the misunderstanding re: mailing list discussion.
23:55:59kugelLlorean: I'm only maintaining that the commit didn't happen silently or behind your back
23:56:04AlexPkugel: We probably ought to have a guideline for things like this that a summary of an IRC discussion is posted to the mailing list
23:56:06 Quit komputes (Remote host closed the connection)
23:56:18AlexPkugel: As it is hard not to miss things sometimes
23:56:20kugelI can't tell whether your objections were addressed or not, as I can't remember them
23:56:25Lloreankugel: The thread on the ML for discussing it though wasn't updated at all regarding changes in its status. While it wasn't silently, that is a little annoying.
23:56:38Lloreankugel: Especially when he kept trying to send me back to the list when I wanted to discuss it on IRC earlier.
23:56:56LloreanI had oral surgery recently and have been too drugged to keep up with realtime discussion.
23:58:03LloreanI'll admit that may have been my misunderstanding, but it seems like there should at least have been a response to that thread mentioning the changed features.

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