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#rockbox log for 2011-02-14

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00:14:01n1sBuschel: (for the logs) ah, yes that UNIT_TIME think can probably be dropped, i don't see much of a reason to keep it especially since it will be wrong in some languages and is just a short form in English
00:14:14n1ss/think/thing
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00:30:21JdGordon1sideral: hey, just seen your FS comment about a unified rewind on resume.... agreed 100%
00:30:28JdGordon1we dont need 15 rewind-on-X settings
00:30:31 Quit dfkt (Quit: -= SysReset 2.53=- Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc.)
00:31:45LloreanJdGordon1: Besides stop and pause, which can be seen as quite different things, what would the other potential cases where you see someone arguing for a "rewind" option be (that qualifies as another "resume", specifically, since rewind on resume obviously wouldn't replace non-resume situations)
00:32:37JdGordon1there has been at least 3 tasks now, rewind on {car resume, fade, resume}
00:33:12[Saint]rewind on fade?
00:33:28[Saint]is that even possible?
00:33:37JdGordon1everything is possible
00:33:50JdGordon1FS #9448 apparently
00:33:54gevaerts"fade" meaning fade on stop being enabled?
00:34:00JdGordon1probably
00:34:04*[Saint] highly doubts there's a setting that rewinds whilst fading...but, people *are* crazy...
00:34:08sideralI actually do not have a strong preference. I could live with many options or just one, general option. I respect that some people want to make a distinction
00:34:37sideralSaint: I use FS #9448 as a replacement for a more general rewind-on-unpause
00:35:06 Quit kevku (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
00:35:06[Saint]I have to say, I'm *very* passionate about my rewind setings.
00:35:22*gevaerts rewinds every few weeks :)
00:35:24[Saint]so, bug me about this if you can, and want a strong opinion ;)
00:35:45[Saint]as do I, *manually*, but I like my resume/rewind settings.
00:35:46JdGordon1because there is nothing quite like having arguments with strong opinions :p
00:36:36LloreanJdGordon1: I think the options should be "rewind on resume" and "rewind on unpause" and that's it.
00:36:45sideralLlorean: Someone could even argue there should be a rewind amount for autoresume. I wouldn't use it if it was configurable separately, but I wouldn't mind either if this was folded into a general rewind-on-resume feature.
00:37:01[Saint]ewww....no.
00:37:13[Saint]I think resume/autoresume the same thing in this instance.
00:37:14JdGordon1Llorean: AFAIC resume == unpause...
00:37:19LloreanPause is for 'temporary' stops, an stop is for longer stops. And I can see there a solid case for wanting to rewind a bit for longer stops, but not short pauses.
00:37:30[Saint]Llorean: agreed.
00:37:32LloreanIf they're for the same thing, they shouldn't be separate features.
00:37:38JdGordon1they arent
00:37:41[Saint]I don't want it to rewind if I merely pause.
00:37:46gevaertsCan we make it dependent on time of day?
00:37:47[Saint]but, if I *stop* playback.
00:37:49JdGordon1but fair enough if s/resume/restart/
00:38:01gevaertsI mean, in the morning I'm not fully awake, so I want it to rewind a bit more
00:38:02LloreanJdGordon1: It's called "resume playback" in the menu
00:38:16LloreanJdGordon1: So, "resume" is the term I'm using for "un-stop"
00:38:31[Saint]gevaerts: I could do a touchscreen wps that offered you settings for this onscreen? ;)
00:38:36JdGordon1resume ======= unpause
00:38:42Lloreanunpause == unpause
00:38:49Lloreanresume == "Resume Playback" option in the menu.
00:38:54JdGordon1yes but I used more = marks so im correct
00:38:55[Saint]resume == resume, unpause == unpause.
00:38:56[Saint]IMO
00:39:11sideral:)
00:39:20gevaertsJdGordon1: I'd say you're more equally correct
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00:39:24[Saint]resume I see as playback being stopped, then *resumed*.
00:39:26LloreanEither way, unstop and unpause are different actions and should be treated differently
00:39:29[Saint]otherwise it's simply a pause.
00:39:39LloreanUntil such time as they're merged.
00:39:43sideralThere's no point arguing. People have preferences.
00:39:53[Saint]there bloody is too point!
00:40:06LloreanPeople can set unpause and unstop rewind behaviour to be identical. If there's only one setting, then they can't get independent behaviour.
00:40:09[Saint]we need not a million settings that influence other people for the needs of few.
00:40:26JdGordon1[Saint]: umm, we have that already....
00:40:27[Saint]so arguing is indeed quite relevant.
00:40:28LloreanI don't like a million settings, but I feel these two are pretty different things.
00:40:29gevaertssideral: the point would be to see how things overlap so we can get the minimal set of settings that satisfies the maximum number of people
00:40:40*JdGordon1 is willing to bet most people leave 80+% of the setting default
00:40:47[Saint]JdGordon1: exactly why we should argue about them! ;P
00:41:02gevaertsJdGordon1: oh, sure, but those that do never complain here!
00:41:07[Saint]and, I must certainly not be "most" people then.
00:41:22[Saint]my .cfg is a complex mix a settings I prefer...I'd cry if I lost it.
00:41:45gevaertsAnd it's only those who complain who ever write a patch and thus start contributing!
00:41:47JdGordon1and no, resuming playback is resuming playback is unpauseing playback. the only case I;d accept where there is a difference is resuming from power-on or STOP, but then i would expect the fae setting would be wanted anyway
00:42:02gevaertsErgo, we need more controversial settings if we want more developers!
00:42:07JdGordon1HAHA
00:42:08JdGordon1done!
00:42:11LloreanJdGordon1: What does power on have to do with fade?
00:42:15*JdGordon1 gets back into proper development then
00:42:40*[Saint] must say he really doesn't agree that resume and un-pause is the same thing.
00:42:48JdGordon1Llorean: give me a logical reaosn why anyone would want to always fade-in when resuming from pause but not when resuming from poweron
00:42:52[Saint]but, I'm just not *too* passionate about it presently.
00:42:52sideralgevaerts: I love and hate you for this reasoning. You are so obviously correct!
00:42:56LloreanJdGordon1: It's been decided in the past to keep pause and stop separate, so I don't see what you're basing your statement than unpause and unstop are identical on. They aren't the same thing in Rockbox at the moment.
00:43:00LloreanThey may be in your head, but that's not where it counts.
00:43:34LloreanJdGordon1: I thought we were talking about always rewinding, and was trying to figure out what fade + power on has to do with rewind.
00:43:43LloreanI guess you were moving on to something else from that explanation?
00:43:54JdGordon1no, just getting confused....
00:43:57JdGordon1same thing
00:44:14JdGordon1there is no sane reason to want to rewind on resume from pause but not from poweron
00:44:28LloreanBut there is same reason to want to rewind from *stop* but not from *pause*
00:44:52LloreanIf you use pause for temporary breaks (someone wants to talk to you) and stop for when you expect not to come back immediately (put down the player, possibly power off)
00:44:53JdGordon1and stop != pause because of technical reasons (WHICH HAVE BEEN DISCUSSED AND SERIOUSY CONSIDERED MERGING), not from some phylosophical reasoning
00:45:05LloreanSeriously considered, but rejected after discussion.
00:45:09[Saint]there may not be a "sane" reason, but I don't think we can safely assume it's "safe" to bundle pause and resume together when they're clearly different things.
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00:54:39Mp3CIs anyone here?
00:55:13JdGordon1nope
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02:07:46[Saint]Hmmmm, why is it sometimes that I need to uninstall RaaA to update, and others it wil treat it as an update?
02:08:01[Saint]Will it only be an "update" if it's built by the same machine?
02:10:54JdGordon1you answered your own question
02:11:00JdGordon1umm... yes
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03:14:31CIA-70New commit by 03jethead71 (r29302): Leave a gap between all handles because ringbuf_add_cross interprets equal pointers as empty, corruption guard check could fail to detect overlap if ...
03:18:43CIA-70r29302 build result: All green
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09:36:32CIA-70New commit by 03jethead71 (r29303): Buffering: tin cup. Update threading structure and handle rebuffer more reliably on buffer thread using a single message send.
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09:40:19CIA-70r29303 build result: All green
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10:19:00CIA-70New commit by 03jethead71 (r29304): Code police buffering.c a little - use already predominant style - shorted lines over 80 cols.
10:22:33CIA-70r29304 build result: All green
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11:27:58tmzthttp://matthiyosi.blogspot.com/2009/10/using-skia-in-android-native-code.html
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11:31:57gevaertstmzt: any hint on what skia is?
11:32:14tmztskia is the rendering library android uses
11:32:27tmztthis lets you remove the call into java for rendering lcd updates
11:32:34gevaertsah
11:32:43tmztI was tearing apart webview looking for that
11:32:52tmztfound this after I found the magic call
11:33:09tmzt10:19 < tmzt> 062 // Note: this is called from UI thread, don't count it for WebViewCoreTimeCounter
11:33:12tmzt10:19 < tmzt> 3063 WebViewCore* viewImpl = GET_NATIVE_VIEW(env, obj);
11:33:14tmzt10:19 < tmzt> 3064 SkCanvas* canvas = GraphicsJNI::getNativeCanvas(env, canv);
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11:33:35tmztmight also help with some of the requester stuff
11:33:36*gevaerts leaves this to kugel :)
11:33:52tmztyeah, I saw he wasn't on
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11:34:59tmztI use some code very similar to yours in my X port to android, so I was looking for something more efficient than drawBitmap from a NativeBuffer
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11:37:49tmztNokia==Novel
11:37:56tmztit didn't quite pay off for them either
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11:39:12tmzttwice I fail tonight
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12:04:02wodz|workgosh, rk27xx lcd subsystem *IS* complicated. There is lcdpanel with its own controller chip connected to the rockchip lcd controller module. This module can do YUV<->RGB conversion, hardware scalling, can blit two separate regions with specified alpha value on top of the background
12:05:39wodz|workthis module plays with dedicated DMA engine which can do regular block transfers from both AHB busses (ARM and DSP), multiple block transfers or multiple block, linked list transfers
12:06:08wodz|workthere are 4 channels whith such capabilities at your disposal :-)\
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12:27:50CIA-70New commit by 03jethead71 (r29305): All kernel objects in code shared amongs targets (core, plugins, codecs) should be declared SHAREDBSS_ATTR as any core could potentially touch them ...
12:32:45CIA-70r29305 build result: All green
12:36:37[Saint]jhMikeS: what's the status of FS #11863?
12:37:32jhMikeSas is the bugs or the patches I flooded it with?
12:38:05[Saint]tha patches. is it being committed?
12:38:11jhMikeSfwiw, I haven't managed to crash anything today, there were still some nasty bugs
12:38:14[Saint]*the
12:38:17jhMikeSit is committed
12:38:25[Saint]oh, it is?
12:38:30[Saint]aha.
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12:38:59jhMikeSI was just heading there to make a note of that fact and you popped up asking! :)
12:39:10[Saint]lols
12:40:14[Saint]I can back my hacky syncing out of my tree now, woo \o/
12:40:55jhMikeSyes, unhack and relax
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16:26:56paulk_hi! Is it possible to set the recordings' names ? I mean, to choose if it will be named with the date, or with an incrementing number… ?
16:27:35Tornedoesn't it already use the date on targets with a clock?
16:28:30Torneyeah, it uses the date and time if the device has a clock, and an incrementing number if it doesn't
16:28:35paulk_It doesn't seem to be the date, I have kind of random numbers. Ex: R_MIC_800723-091847
16:28:46Tornethat looks like a date to me
16:28:51Torneyour player's clock is just set wrong
16:29:01paulk_yep I just checked, you're right
16:29:04Tornethat's 23rd june 1980, 09:18:47
16:29:14Torneer, july even
16:30:30paulk_thanks Torne
16:30:40Tornenp
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17:12:03kugeltmzt: interesting
17:14:26kugeltmzt: I was re-doing rockbox' lcd update recently (locally; using SurfaceView), and I'm fairly sure the lcd is already limiting
17:15:19kugelI can't seem to get more than 62fps whatsoever
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18:16:00CIA-70New commit by 03moos (r29306): Some languages updates for the upcoming release: ...
18:20:31CIA-70r29306 build result: All green
18:20:55CIA-70New commit by 03moos (r29307): Czech language: Some minor terminology changes by Marek Salaba FS #11935
18:24:56CIA-70r29307 build result: All green
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18:40:22tmztkugel: maybe with skia you could render the rockbox widget/layout system unless the goal is pixel for pixel compatibility with hardware devices
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18:40:56kugelwhat has the widget to do with it?
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18:41:30kugelI understood that I could replace the current lcd_update/_rect() with something skia-based, is that right?
18:42:01tmztviewports, I mean. yeah, it looks like you can draw the bitmap using a picture group the way the webview implementation does
18:42:02kugelis it an official API (I found no skia headers in the ndk), and does it have advantages?
18:44:05tmztromain said he doesn't think it's in the NDK, right. the headers are used when the browser component is built though there seems to be no reasons a native plugin can't use them possibly optionally. as for advantages, webview seems to be using it for native compositing, text drawing and other things
18:44:13tmztversus just a flat framebuffer
18:45:18kugelI don't think I can get rid of the flat framebuffer model, but you can sure interpret it as a (in-memory) bitmap file
18:45:43kugelI never managed to get over 62fps using different approaches, so I don't think the (rumored) inefficiency of drawBitmap() is an issue
18:45:55kugel(although all my approaches used drawBitmap())
18:45:58tmzthttp://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/external/webkit.git;a=blob;f=WebKit/android/jni/WebViewCore.cpp
18:46:27tmzthttp://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/external/webkit.git;a=blob;f=WebKit/android/jni/WebViewCore.cpp;h=6ebf1dfbb8b5e49ec8b76d7fdd0990e309e0cbd8;hb=HEAD
18:46:45tmztis 62fps limiting? you mean for something like mpeg playback or what do you mean
18:47:55kugelrunning test_fps.rock
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18:51:51kugelnot sure what I should find there
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18:55:36tmztthat's the bridge between java and native code to use the skia canvas, the other stuff is in the webkit repo and deals with pictures and things like that which should give you the equivalent of nativebuffer but rendered entirely from c
18:56:01tmztif I get anywhere with a proof of concept I'll let you know
18:56:09tmzthave to get back to my other work though
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19:31:34TheSevenbtw, is there any particular reason that we use bin2c for the bitmaps etc.?
19:32:07TheSevenwhy not generate object files directly using an assembler file containing a label and a ".incbin" directive?
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19:33:32amiconnDoes that work for non-gnu 'as'?
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19:34:21amiconnTheSeven^
19:34:39TheSevendo we use non-gnu 'as'?
19:34:58amiconnThere are not only targets...
19:35:13amiconnBuilding a sim on osx means non-gnu 'as#; for example
19:35:22amiconn*as
19:35:34TheSevenhm
19:36:43*amiconn ran into this with the libdemac mmx asm
19:36:55amiconnThe assembler on osx didn't like .rept
19:37:25amiconnI had to resort to more complex preprocessor macros
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20:10:40mtRe: gsoc 2011, how about adding "resuming and completing the wma voice port" as a project ? I'll not have the time to participate as a student this year, neither do I have the time currently to work on it, so I hope we could get someone in gsoc to finish it.
20:10:49linuxstbTheSeven: Bitmaps are converted to the target-specific internal Rockbox format (i.e. the format of the lcd framebuffer) - it's not simply bin2c.
20:11:13linuxstbmt: Is that an entire project?
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20:13:29*linuxstb still wonders why running android/installToolchain.sh is giving "Failed to fetch URL https://dl-ssl.google.com/android/repository/addons_list.xml, reason: Network is unreachable", when the file can be downloaded in curl, wget and firefox...
20:13:35mtlinuxstb: According to the student's experience with codecs, I think it would fit as an entire project.
20:14:33linuxstbmt: Well, IMO it's not something useful enough to give a SoC slot to. Is WMA Voice widely used?
20:15:41kugeldoes that matter?
20:16:35linuxstbkugel: Does what matter?
20:16:38mtlinuxstb: I'm not sure if it's widely used.
20:16:50kugellinuxstb: how widely used a format is
20:16:53*linuxstb solved his android problem courtesy of http://serk01.wordpress.com/2010/02/14/how-to-solve-network-unreachable-problem-when-installing-the-android-sdk-on-gnulinux/
20:16:54mtBut we have a whole lot of codecs that aren't
20:17:20linuxstbkugel: Yes, I think so. SoC slots are valuable, and IMO we wouldn't want to waste it on a codec nobody uses.
20:17:45*gevaerts agrees
20:17:50linuxstbAssuming of course there are more worthwhile proposals.
20:18:14kugelwe can filter out for the slots at a later stage; proposals are IMO unrelated to the number of slots
20:19:13gevaertsFor GSoC, there's also the bigger picture. Every project we get means some other organisation doesn't get one. If those projects are worthwhile, that's fine
20:19:26gevaertsI'm not saying this one isn't good enough
20:19:31kugelwe've pretty much support all widely used formats, so only rarely used ones are left
20:20:05linuxstbkugel: I'm not against it being on the list, but we should prioritise the list of projects in the same way we did last year, and WMA Voice would (IMO) be quite low on that list.
20:20:22kugelspeaking of codecs, someone should look at FS #11906
20:20:33S_a_i_n_tfinishing the theme editor could well be an entire project for another student.
20:20:45S_a_i_n_tbut...do we want entirely *new* projects?
20:20:54gevaertsI just want to point out that GSoC isn't *entirely* free money to pay people. Hypothetically speaking, having WMA Voice support may mean that someone doesn't get to improve llvm/clang crosscompiler support, which does hurt us
20:21:08mtlinuxstb: That sounds good. And iirc, we gave back an extra slot last year, right ?
20:21:37gevaertsmt: actually, no. Last year we cashed in and got one of the left over slots
20:22:03linuxstbWhat was our success rate last year? I forget how many projects we even started with...
20:22:10gevaertsIt's way too early to think about one slot more or less though. We're not selected yet...
20:22:36gevaertslinuxstb: we had RaaA, WMA pro, the theme editor, and TTS
20:23:08kugeldon't we need at least a few proposals (good or bad ones) to get even accepted?
20:23:27gevaertswe need well worked out ideas, yes
20:23:27S_a_i_n_tafaik.
20:23:51gevaertsAnd a nice bit of text that scorche|sh usually provides
20:23:57gevaertsAnd luck
20:25:21gevaertsI mean, there are many more organisations that want to participate than are chosen every year. We've been in there for four years now, so it's not impossible that they decide that it's time for us to sit out a session
20:26:40kugelnot this year hopefully, they're boosting the number of organizations and students
20:27:08gevaertsWe'll see
20:27:21gevaertsI'd say never hopefully :)
20:27:33mtAnd also, there are not that many projects that compete with Rockbox in the same category. (At least it faces less competition than, say, a CMS)
20:27:56gevaertsmt: yes, but on the other hand it's not very clear how much impact we have
20:28:30gevaertsWhich is (partly) why the Swedes changed some stuff to make it easier to get download numbers
20:29:14kugelwe were on LWN!
20:30:10mtAnd FLOSS weekly ;)
20:30:34gevaertsYes, but so are all other oranisations that want a slot!
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20:51:42linuxstbmt: So to answer your question, maybe add it under "Secondary project ideas" ?
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20:53:36*gevaerts doesn't like "Secondary project ideas"
20:54:27mtlinuxstb: Sounds good.
20:54:36linuxstbgevaerts: What would you suggest? I think I wrote that last year - the idea is that we have projects we really want (primary), and then the others...
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20:55:53mtgevaerts: I don't think we should drop it altogether. It's nice to have some sort of prioritization imho.
20:58:06gevaertsI think we want to find a proper match between students and projects. If someone wants to work on something but picks something else because the first choice is "secondary", I fear we seriously increase the risk of failure
20:59:10gevaertsAnd history tells me that we don't have many more serious proposals than slots usually, so the ranking doesn't make much of a difference anyway
20:59:18linuxstbgevaerts: But it's a balance - do we want a really good student to work on a useless project? Shouldn't we push students towards what we want them to do?
20:59:41gevaertslinuxstb: if it's a useless project, why is it on that page?
20:59:52linuxstbYes, maybe "useless" is the wrong word.
21:00
21:00:00kugelplaceholder? :)
21:00:28kugelOTOH we probably also don't want not-yet-so-strong students to work on very tough projects
21:01:03gevaertsAlso, we're never going to fully agree on what the "important" projects are anyway
21:02:33linuxstbgevaerts: Maybe we should remove the distinction for now - we can think about it more closer to the time, once we have a fuller list of projects.
21:02:41gevaertsGood idea
21:02:51LloreanI think the best thing is to just go with the projects we feel the students are most likely to complete. That's a factor of student ability and student interest in the project.
21:02:59mtOK, how about, we don't differentiate ideas on the wiki. Students are expected to discuss an idea before applying, so we would know what a student's first choice is. If they chose an idea that we agreed to be low-priority, they are infromed so that theycan apply to other projects.
21:03:10LloreanWhile it'd be nice to push them toward projects we want more, an un-done project we wanted is still less than a finished project we wanted less.
21:04:41mts/projects/orgs
21:04:53LloreanI think we should ask students to tell us *all* projects they're interested in, and rate their level of interest and how well they think they could accomplish them. Then perhaps write proposals for the two *they* think would be both most useful to Rockbox and most within their interest/ability
21:05:11gevaertsmt: that assumes we can agree on which ones are low priority :)
21:05:21LloreanRather than us telling them how useful it is, we let them decide which they think are important, and we can then see what we've got when it comes down to assigning slots. Any pressure from us, in any way, probably reduces our odds of getting a finished task
21:06:17gevaertsLlorean: yes, I agree
21:06:42gevaertsAnyway, let's add ideas first, and then see if we need some sort of separation
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21:07:18LloreanI can agree with that.
21:08:29mtgevaerts: What's the problem with that assumption ? Even I know that my proposed idea is not a high-priority one for example. :) (And I don't see opposing opinions)
21:08:53gevaertsmt: do you want just one secondary idea? :)
21:09:49Lloreanmt: Even if it's not high priority, if a really talented student is interested in the project, saying it's "low priority" may discourage them from even applying, if they think it'll reduce their chances of getting accepted.
21:10:01LloreanOne of the goals of GSoC isn't just code, but getting new people involved with the projects.
21:10:11Llorean*any* task, low or high priority, can do that.
21:12:09kugelisn't that even the main goal? getting young people into FOSS?
21:12:40mtAlright I'm convinced. So the question now is, does everyone else agree that it's a good/useful enough idea to put there or not ?
21:13:27kugelfine with me
21:13:28gevaertsmt: at this point, yes. I suspect we'll have some sort of meeting to go over the list just before finalising our application anyway
21:13:57kugelwhen is that due?
21:14:23gevaertsMarch 11 at the latest
21:14:35kugelIMO the multiple/relocatable plugins and buflib projects from GSoC2010 should be put there also
21:14:50gevaertsWe can begin applying on February 28
21:15:01gevaertsI'd like to have a decent list two weeks from now
21:15:17gevaertskugel: I moved the plugin one a few minutes ago
21:16:05gevaertsMy personal rule is that I only move things over that I understand well enough :)
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21:17:23LloreanIt might be worth splitting the page into "project ideas" and "areas of interest." For example, something like "further RaaA improvements" is something we'd probably like, but it'd be up to the student to flesh that out into a proposal.
21:17:46*gevaerts nods
21:17:56kugelunionfs would be nice too, especially for RaaA
21:18:23Lloreankugel: And MicroSD targets, I'd imagine.
21:18:38gevaertskugel: how much work is unionfs?
21:18:48kugeldon't know
21:19:00gevaertsI'm not convinced it's eleven weels
21:19:03gevaerts*weeks
21:19:09Lloreangevaerts: If it's not much on its own, altering Rockbox's UI to interact with it well for copy/paste, new file creation, etc can fill that out a lot.
21:19:19kugelbut it would allow the show the themes/fonts/etc from two different folders in browse themes/fonts/etc
21:19:42kugelgevaerts: no idea really, I just saw it on the 2010 page
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21:20:13itchegI have rockbox installed on an Ipod video it got corrupted so I reinstalled and now got corrupted again
21:20:33kugelstandalone playback core (perhaps even functional in a preemption-based environment) would be nice too
21:20:34itchegI guess this sounds like a bad disk, but when I try to format it tells me write protected
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21:20:52saratogawe've already got a long list of possible codec projects, add voice to the list, and suggest that it be combined with something else
21:21:28itcheg I don't care for Apple install, suggestion on how to format?
21:22:14linuxstbitcheg: You have to follow Apple's formatting - Rockbox doesn't replace Apple's bootloader (stored in flash ROM), so the ipod needs to have the expected structure.
21:22:36saratogaif its just a corrupted file system, i think a windows format will work as well
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21:26:01mtsaratoga: Do you think it would be feasible to have the Voice decoder and encoder combined with something else from that list ? (I'm not sure how much work would be needed for the encoder)
21:26:23saratogadepending how skilled someone is
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21:26:39saratogathough i'm not sure how hard voice is to make fixed point
21:27:04saratogasince its already ported to rockbox its probably not too hard to someone whos done fixed point before
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21:29:33itchegso when I boot to apple it says restore with itunes. Any way to acomplish this with out the dreaded itunes?
21:29:42mtsaratoga, I don't think it would be hard to convert it to fixed point, but I believe it would probably need more work/time than the other codecs.
21:30:01Torneitcheg: the best way is to use itunes
21:30:11Torneit's much easier and much more likely to do it exactly right :)
21:30:41itchegtorne I was hoping that wasn't the answer
21:30:57itchegdon't really want to install itunes on my machine
21:31:10TorneThere is a manual restore process but the instructions are written for linux/mac and they require a reasonably high level of comfort with the command line
21:31:17TorneAnd it doesn't always seem to work perfectly
21:31:31Torneuse someone else's computer then :)
21:32:16itcheghmm I'm "ok" with command line but not really a linux person
21:32:39mtsaratoga, I'll add it to the codec list anyway. I wouldn't mind if a student finishes this and other stuff from that list. :)
21:32:49gevaertsitcheg: which ipod exactly is it?
21:36:47itcheggavaerts ipod video 80gb
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21:38:53gevaertsitcheg: in that case I think you really should try to find an itunes installation. The 80gb is the one where the "doesn't always seem to work perfectly" Torne mentioned is most common
21:39:07gevaertsIf you *really* want to try to do it manually, have a look at http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/IpodManualRestore
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21:39:27*kugel added standalone playback app
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21:39:38gevaertsIf you don't fully understand what all of those steps do, don't touch it
21:40:01gevaertskugel: once would have been enough :)
21:40:05itchegok thnx guys will find someone who has itunes
21:40:19itchegrockbox is awsome btw, thanks!
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21:41:20mtgevaerts: The conflicts are my fault I think. I'm working on it.
21:41:33kugelgevaerts: once?
21:41:56CIA-70New commit by 03learman (r29308): Update Swedish translation.
21:42:03gevaertskugel: "Standalone playback core/library" currently appears twice
21:42:04kugelgevaerts: hmm, the wiki told me that my changes clashed with mt's. the diff said my changes did not come through
21:42:16kugelunless I misinterpreted the diff
21:42:18*gevaerts lets kugel and mt work it out
21:42:50*kugel sees CONFLICTs at the bottom of the page
21:42:56mtgevaerts, kugel : The wiki told me my changes clashed with gevaerts' :-)
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21:43:22kugelconcurrent access is nasty!
21:44:31gevaertskugel: I'd also reword that a bit. While a "standalone application to run on a PC" is nice, a set of libraries with clear APIs that can be used both in rockbox and externally (e.g. for debugging or testing) is more what we actually want (and includes this standalone application)
21:44:57kugelfeel free to improve :)
21:45:10gevaertsWell, only if you agree :)
21:45:17kugelI do for sure :)
21:45:27 Quit itcheg (Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout))
21:45:27gevaertsAnd only if you and mt agree that the page is ready to extend again
21:45:58CIA-70r29308 build result: All green
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21:46:21kugelI'll leave it for you :p
21:47:46kugelI think the playback app is a tough task, it also (indirectly) involves messing the metadata parsers
21:48:12mtkugel, gevaerts : I think the page is fine now.
21:48:21gevaertskugel: It involves messing with everything
21:48:50gevaertsOnly for people who aren't afraid to get their hands dirty I'd say
21:49:03saratogathis is using the codecs externally?
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21:52:49gevaertskugel: can you review my changes?
21:53:05gevaertssaratoga: ideally that would be part of it
21:53:27saratogacutting out codecs and metadata is actually pretty easy i think
21:53:42saratogatest_codec more or less does all the buffering, so really you just need to add a wrapper for metadata
21:53:51gevaertsI'd like to see clearly separated modules with clear APIs
21:53:52saratogaand some makefile nonsense
21:54:00saratogayes designing the APIs is not so simple
21:54:18saratogaan ffmpeg wrapper might be really useful too
21:54:41kugelgevaerts: loks good to me
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21:55:30kugelsaratoga: I think adopting to standard (or de-facto) APIs is very useful, it has helped on RaaA
21:55:37gevaertssaratoga: wrappers for all sorts of things are useful, but unless we really spend time and effort on cleaning up the APIs, those wrappers won't be very clean
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21:56:21gevaertsThe way checkwps and the database tool tend to break quite often clearly shows that
21:56:21kugelwe probably also want a pthread-like thread API if we ever get serious about rockbox-within-preemtive-threads
21:57:26gevaertskugel: that's a different project I'd say. One that still needs a consensus :)
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22:30:49linuxstbsaratoga: What do you see an ffmpeg wrapper being useful for?
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22:40:38linuxstbgevaerts: What flaws does the playback core have (reading your SoC2011 description) ?
22:41:41gevaertslinuxstb: I didn't add that particular bit :)
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22:42:44*linuxstb curses flyspray and thinks he should direct that to kugel.. ?
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22:46:16kugellinuxstb: there've been always some glitches
22:47:15kugelone I can name is that very fast track skipping (especially in the playlist viewer) often locks up playback
22:47:19prg318If I wipe my iPod (video 30gb) and install rockbox; is there any way I can restore iPod software at some point? i mean without dual booting
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22:48:51linuxstbprg318: You don't wipe your ipod to install Rockbox. Rockbox needs to be added to a working ipod, and doesn't involve deleting anything. (assuming it's a windows-formatted ipod - Mac ipods need converting to windows format)
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22:50:22prg318linuxstb: thanks. i think i might go with rockbox on my iPod; it'll also give me something to hack around with.. i submitted some patches a couple years back, but I had stopped using rockbox when my ipod failed :x
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23:09:32saratogalinuxstb: various projects who use ffmpeg on ARM
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23:12:34linuxstbsaratoga: I'm not sure what you're suggesting. A wrapper to use ffmpeg in Rockbox, a wrapper to use Rockbox codecs in ffmpeg, or something else?
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23:13:15saratogalinuxstb: a way to compile rockbox codecs so that they can be accessed via libavcodec
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23:15:42BRi7Xhowdy guys, I got rockbox working on the iPhone 3G!
23:15:49 Quit leavittx (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
23:16:35evilnick_BBRi7X: Did you?
23:16:58BRi7Xyeah, though now i'm kind of stuck in the fft plugin >_<
23:17:04BRi7Xbut yeah
23:17:39evilnick_BCan you do a hard reset and take a screenshot?
23:18:33 Quit T44 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
23:19:54BRi7Xhrmm i could try... it was pretty simple actually. i have idroid on the iphone, then i ran the rockbox app. it was hard getting off the ground, but it works, and it really does play music flawlessly.
23:20:15evilnick_BAh, not natively, rightydokey
23:20:30BRi7Xyeah not natively. but it's still rockbox on an iphone haha
23:21:02*evilnick_B can't help but laugh even though he'd personally kill* for RB on the iPhone 4
23:21:17BRi7Xlol natively?
23:21:26evilnick_B* = Actual killing may vary
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23:21:59evilnick_BI still dream about it one day coming to pass, then I could rid myself of iTunes to manage music
23:22:09evilnick_BUntil then, though, I shall wait.
23:22:16BRi7Xi was going crazy trying to find where the hell itunes put all the music on here, but database found it all very quickly. even found songs i had no idea were on the device
23:24:36BRi7Xdo you have an iPhone 4?
23:25:20evilnick_BYes, but this is getting offtopic (though I started it) so join #rockbox-community if you like
23:26:48BRi7Xwell i was about to steer it back on topic... if you have it, and it's jailbroken, throw on iDroid and test out rockbox.apk...
23:27:30kugelBRi7X: you might be the very first one to run rockbox on an iphone, good job :)
23:27:33gevaertsSeriously, running android on an iphone in order to run rockbox is silly
23:27:46*evilnick_B wasn't aware that the ip4 could use iDroid
23:27:54Battousaijust silly enough to work
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23:28:39 Nick milk_ is now known as milk (~milk@94-193-93-226.zone7.bethere.co.uk)
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23:58:04 Quit ender` (Quit: Someone sent me a postcard picture of the Earth. On the back it said, "Wish you were here.")

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