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#rockbox log for 2011-02-25

00:00:07pixelmaI don't think so, at least not in its current form
00:00:21pixelmaespecially relying on the database
00:00:27n1sif "prevent track skipping" and "rewind before resume" are playback settings i would say both auto resume and bookmarks are too
00:00:28LloreanThe current form of bookmarking is pretty much applied "outside" of playback
00:00:30LloreanEither before or after.
00:00:43LloreanAuto-resume happens during.
00:00:51 Join semitones [0] (~Patrick@unaffliated/semitones)
00:00:57[Saint]pixelma: I'll try checking if I can use the RTC in a theme on my phone.
00:00:59thomasjfoxlinuxstb: Luckily I didn't commit yet, the plugins patch still has one issue in the plugins.make file:
00:01:00pixelma(my statement was about the "replace bookmarking"
00:01:02LloreanBut I'm not really against bookmarking going into playback.
00:01:23semitonesis it a duckumented bug in 3.7.1 that the screen flickers and goes blank where it should have song information on the now playing screen?
00:01:24thomasjfoxlinuxstb: ifndef APP_TYPE will also match the sim
00:01:36LloreanAnd since bookmarks can't affect anything outside of playback (AFAIK)
00:01:55Lloreansemitones: There's a bug in some WPSes that causes that to happen. Are you using the default one?
00:02:01pixelmasemitones: that sounds wrong, which theme are you using and which player
00:02:26semitonesWhat is a WPS? I'm on a Sansa Clip+, not sure what theme, just a sec
00:03:03 Quit n1s (Quit: Ex-Chat)
00:03:06semitoneshow can I find out what theme I'm using?
00:03:17semitonesbesides changing the themes back and forth
00:03:32[Saint]pixelma: RaaA seems unable to display RTC
00:03:38linuxstbthomasjfox: Where are you using ifndef APP_TYPE? I can't see it in http://pastie.org/1603833
00:03:49pixelmasemitones: go inzo theme settings and the currently used theme should be highlighted
00:03:54pixelma*into
00:03:56 Quit CapsAdmin (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
00:04:04thomasjfoxlinuxstb: Sorry, it's ifdef
00:04:08 Quit domonoky (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
00:04:11thomasjfoxlinuxstb: Look for plugins.make
00:04:13linuxstbthomasjfox: That's fine though isn't it?
00:04:31thomasjfoxlinuxstb: Just build a sim and it excluded the plugins
00:04:47thomasjfoxlinuxstb: Guess other devs would be unhappy with that ;)
00:04:48linuxstbHmm, I didn't think APP_TYPE was defined for the sim...
00:05:07semitonespixelma, botio is highlighted, but it's also the first in the list. I thought that was why it was highlighted
00:05:29thomasjfoxlinuxstb: It will be set to sdl-sim
00:05:50linuxstbAh, that's badness...
00:06:02*linuxstb doesn't like the closeness between the sim and RaaA
00:06:18semitonesso it's a bug with botio then?
00:06:18mshathlonxpif genlang foes "genlang -u -e=english.lang yourlang.lang > yournewlang.lang" without any comments, there's nothing I've missed in my lang file?
00:06:41Lloreansemitones: Try using cabbiev2 and see if the behaviour persists.
00:06:57semitonesalright
00:07:34linuxstbthomasjfox: I'm working on some changes to configure etc, and one of those is to provide an APPLICATION define you can use in Makefiles. But I have a bug in that patch I can't solve...
00:07:38pixelmamshathlonxp: if you looked into yournewlang.lang and didn't find comments then yes
00:07:46mshathlonxpI found
00:07:57semitonescabbiev2 seems to work alright Llorean
00:08:04mshathlonxpand I'm wondering, because that's pictureflow, but I saw and translated one pictureflow...
00:08:21linuxstbthomasjfox: I was going to wait for your commit before posting my patch (as it conflicts), but I'll post it anyway...
00:08:54thomasjfoxlinuxstb: Guess I'll just need an ifneq sdl-sim in there
00:09:00mshathlonxpfound the problem - missing id
00:09:17semitonesit's too bad because botio was the only one that looked decent on the clip+
00:09:35 Join CapsAdmin [0] (CapsAdmin@ti0143a340-dhcp0163.bb.online.no)
00:09:50semitonesThe rockbox_default screen doesn't appear at all!
00:09:51 Quit mudd1 (Quit: Ex-Chat)
00:10:20 Quit Loto_ (Quit: Loto_)
00:12:15CIA-70New commit by 03jethead71 (r29391): Use thumb-compatible byte swap routines when building with -mthumb.
00:12:17pixelmait's a file from an old installation, it was renamed to rockbox_failsafe (and hence the old one isn't replaced anymore)
00:12:19[Saint]pixelma: Did you manage to spot my message regarding the RTC earlier? I tried a simple cut/paste of a few lines of RTC related code into my current theme with no effect, and also tried loading the built in status bar, which also displays no time.
00:12:37[Saint]I'm not even sure if HAVE_RTC is enabled for App builds.
00:12:45pixelmasemitones: did you install the font pack?
00:12:59*mshathlonxp shouts some bad russian words
00:13:00JdGordon_[Saint]: are you on the dev mailing list? good time to spruik your cabbie version :)
00:13:09mshathlonxpagain something isn't right :@
00:13:25[Saint]JdGordon_: Hmmm?
00:13:31 Quit kugel (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
00:13:31mshathlonxpor my "current build" is outdated again? :D
00:14:15mshathlonxpdamn
00:14:20mshathlonxpyou guys work fast
00:14:20mshathlonxp:D
00:14:23JdGordon_[Saint]: AlexP has problems with cabbie on RaaA which iirc your version fixes most (if not all) of
00:14:35 Quit semitones (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
00:14:35pixelma[Saint]: yes, I saw, thanks for checking. Is there a way to get only the "active" touch area to react on touch? It seems like it'll change everything in %?Tl on the complete screen
00:14:40[Saint]Hmmm, I'll have a look. Thanks.
00:15:07[Saint]pixelma: Oh?
00:15:26[Saint]I'm not sure I understand...so I'll clarify with you if you don't mind.
00:15:38[Saint]If one %Ti action fires, they all do?
00:16:01 Join kugel [0] (~kugel@g231227111.adsl.alicedsl.de)
00:16:02 Quit kugel (Changing host)
00:16:02 Join kugel [0] (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel)
00:16:10[Saint]%Tl, rather
00:16:21pixelmaseems so
00:16:26linuxstbthomasjfox: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/11966 (useful if you could test on Maemo - I still haven't got round to installing scratchbox...)
00:16:45CIA-70r29391 build result: All green
00:16:51[Saint]pixelma: Are you using screen or viewport relative VPs?
00:16:58linuxstbkugel: Could you look at this, and perhaps work out why "make zip" is failing? http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/11966
00:16:59pixelma[Saint]: I have it changing foreground colours in a few places and it's very obvious
00:17:06thomasjfoxlinuxstb: Makefile fix: http://pastie.org/1604139
00:17:35pixelma[Saint]: viewport relative VPs?
00:17:56[Saint]s/VP/touch areas/ sorry ;)
00:17:57mshathlonxpso again my current build is outdated, this time even while it's still being copied to DAP :D
00:18:17pixelmatouch areas are in their own viewports
00:19:00mshathlonxphow often current versions are being built - once a day or more often?
00:19:07linuxstbthomasjfox: Hmm, you can't just check for APP_TYPE eq sdl-sim ?
00:19:15[Saint]I found that making all the touch areas I could (non conditional ones) screen relative it improved touchscreen bugginess immensely.
00:19:25linuxstbmshathlonxp: Everytime someone commits a change to the code to SVN.
00:19:39[Saint]But I'm not using %Tl in a theme yet, so...I've no idea what's going on.
00:19:46[Saint]It's definitely a bug though pixelma
00:20:00thomasjfoxlinuxstb: We also want plugins for normal builds ;)
00:20:13thomasjfoxlinuxstb: Is there an elegant way to do logical AND in makefiles?
00:20:33mshathlonxpand after I'll upload my translation, it will be automatically updated with missing strings?
00:20:50 Join plux [0] (~yogurt@h-34-156.A238.priv.bahnhof.se)
00:20:51linuxstbthomasjfox: You could just do nested ifs, setting is_app_type=yes inside the inner if.
00:21:17pixelma[Saint]: well, description only says "indicate that the touchscreen is pressed", not that it is related to the area...
00:21:18linuxstbthomasjfox: See tools/root.make
00:22:03 Join Keripo [0] (~Keripo@eng329.wireless-resnet.upenn.edu)
00:22:06[Saint]pixelma: That is correct, but iiuc it's *supposed* to only fire *that* touch area....not all of them.
00:22:31[Saint]Or at least, that's how I expect it to work, even if it doesn't work this way.
00:23:24pixelmathat's not clear to me, although I'd think that would be the more common use case
00:24:01*mshathlonxp sighs
00:24:09mshathlonxpbut still something isn't in place
00:24:11thomasjfoxlinuxstb: much better: http://pastie.org/1604173
00:24:35mshathlonxpgenlang didn't made any complaints
00:24:46mshathlonxpwhere I can find the fcuking problem?
00:25:06[Saint]Hmmm... AlexP, around?
00:25:17[Saint]I'd like to discuss your issues with cabbie
00:25:30mshathlonxpis this http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/trunk/apps/lang/english.lang - file up to date?
00:25:44[Saint]mshathlonxp: Of course.
00:25:51TorneThat file is *always* up to date, by definition
00:25:59mshathlonxpthen where's my problem?
00:26:06Torneit's up to date *every time* :)
00:26:09JdGordon_mshathlonxp: of course it is, if you are seeing the wrong strings then your build of rockbox is not in sync with your generated .lng
00:26:36mshathlonxpgenlang doesn't reports any errors
00:27:09JdGordon_I wouldnt expect it to
00:27:12linuxstbthomasjfox: Yes, that's better ;) When I commit my changes, you can just use ifdef APPLICATION instead. But it may be a few days until I commit it, so go ahead.
00:27:17[Saint]How do people feel about: "1) Currently RaaA (Android, Maemo etc.) follow the same system as normal targets for the play/pause icon on the WPS - they show playback state. However on a touchscreen this feels odd as they should show what clicking on the icon will do. I'd like to swap this. "
00:27:36JdGordon_[Saint]: better reply to the mailing list :)
00:27:37[Saint]I'm not sure this is the way to go, with additionally showing the current playback state.
00:28:15[Saint]JdGordon_: I will do, but in my experience IRC is a much better forum for discussion of possibly contentious issues.
00:28:35JdGordon_only if the relevant ppl are online :)
00:28:56linuxstbYou mean offline?
00:28:56JdGordon_touchscreen targets should show buttons not infomration for playback stuff
00:29:06[Saint]I'm not sure I like that idea...basically it implies that if the app is playing that the playback icon will display the action that will happen, not the playback state.
00:29:06JdGordon_probably
00:29:08mshathlonxpfound my error, I guess
00:29:12[Saint]I think that fucked, quite simply.
00:29:28[Saint]If it's playing, seeing a pause icon will only confuse the hell out of people.
00:29:34JdGordon_ALL touchscreen interfaces do that
00:29:35linuxstb[Saint]: I'm not sure this is controversial - it's been mentioned here a few times, and no-one disagrees with swapping them.
00:29:50[Saint]I certainly do.
00:29:51JdGordon_showing the playback status is redundant imo
00:29:54Llorean[Saint]: The question boils down to "are they indicators or buttons?"
00:29:55[Saint]it's bloody stupid IMO
00:30:03LloreanIf they're buttons, they get button labels. If they do something, they're buttons.
00:30:07*linuxstb thinks we all agree...
00:30:20[Saint]linuxstb is quite wrong.
00:30:29[Saint]unless you're chosing to blatantly ignore me.
00:31:10linuxstb[Saint]: Ah, I didn't ignore you, I just misread you...
00:31:12Llorean[Saint]: I think he means everyone you posed the question to agrees.
00:31:16LloreanOh. Nevermind
00:31:39linuxstb[Saint]: In which case,what Llorean said! i.e. you're the only person so far who likes the current way.
00:31:39LloreanI'd say the solution is to have a single playback status indicator that shows play/pause/ff/rw, and then buttons separated from it
00:31:46LloreanDon't make the buttons and the indicator serve dual purposes
00:31:50JdGordon_[Saint]: have a look at the stock media player... I sort of agree with you but only because cabbie makes no effort to make it obvious that it is a button
00:31:52LloreanIf you must drop something, drop the indicator and leave the buttons.
00:32:09linuxstbBut I agree with jdGordon that playback status is redundant. i.e. get rid of it and replace it with buttons.
00:32:14LloreanJdGordon_: Yeah, on touch targets they should look a little more button-like, for sure.
00:32:29[Saint]Llorean: drop the indicator?
00:32:32[Saint]what indicator?
00:32:37[Saint]theyre all buttons.
00:32:37Llorean[Saint]: The hypothetical one I mentioned.
00:32:43[Saint]Ah.
00:32:48 Quit ender` (Quit: Information travels more surely to those with a lesser need to know.)
00:33:04 Quit pamaury (Remote host closed the connection)
00:33:23JdGordon_[Saint]: I think the button area on the bottom should all have dop shadows or something to make them look buttony
00:33:30LloreanSince the buttons will be by definition beneath the finger pressing them, and many of these screens are relatively big, it might not be bad to have a separate indicator that shows what's actually happening (especially if you have fat fingers)
00:33:31[Saint]I just don't think we can have the buttons displaying the playback state that will occur, instead of the playback state currently...without having a seperate indicator that always shows the playback state.
00:33:41JdGordon_if you really want play status shown then flash a big paused icon in the AA area when paused
00:34:00AlexP[Saint]: Reply to the list
00:34:03[Saint]doing it differently also means losing screen estate too...as you'd need seperate buttons for all play states.
00:34:14AlexPAnd every single touch screen program ever shows the button
00:34:22JdGordon_only |<< >>| and play/pause
00:34:24LloreanYou only need to have buttons for potential play states, not all of them
00:34:33[Saint]I have combined play/pause/stop on my theme quite effectively.
00:34:35LloreanThat means a "play button" when paused, and a "pause button" when playing.
00:34:50AlexPLlorean: exactly
00:35:00LloreanStop is optional, but if it is to be had, should always be available. Not combined with anything.
00:35:04LloreanSince from any state, you can stop
00:35:07AlexPtes
00:35:09AlexP*yes
00:35:24CIA-70New commit by 03thomasjfox (r29392): RaaA: Enable plugins for application builds ...
00:35:24[Saint]Is pressing "play" to pause, and holding it to stop *really* that unintuitive? I really don't see the point in having a seperate button for eah.
00:35:24AlexPAnyway, 1 and 2 in my list are uncontroversial IMO, and I will change
00:35:35AlexPIt is the others I really wanted feedback on
00:35:45*mshathlonxp is falling into despair
00:35:54Llorean[Saint]: Yeah, it's pretty unintuitive. Name me a few apps (not Rockbox, or hardware players with limited buttons) that do it that way?
00:36:06[Saint]alexbobp: I disagree that 1 is uncontroversial.
00:36:16AlexP[Saint]: To everyone except you
00:36:27[Saint]That's what manuals are for.
00:36:40Llorean[Saint]: We've got a working definition of controversial that requires, if I recall, two more people in favor of the idea than against it. I think this quorum meets that. :)
00:36:40AlexPConfuse people then tell them to read the manual?
00:36:49Llorean[Saint]: If you need a manual, by definition it's not intuitive.
00:36:56[Saint]As long as it's doccumented, and consistent...and reasonable intuitive...I don't see the need.
00:36:59AlexPLlorean: Especially as all committers that have commented agree
00:37:04Llorean[Saint]: That's kinda what the word means: "people will look at the screen and intuit what to do on their first try"
00:37:30AlexPAnyway, points 1 and 2 are a pointless argument
00:37:55[Saint]Well, to me...it's pretty obvious what to press to commence playback, and can you honestly say that if there was no clear button to stop/pause onscreen you wouldn't try the play button again?
00:38:18[Saint]AlexP: Why, because it doesn't matter if someone disagrees?
00:38:20AlexPi would wonder why the hell is there a play button
00:38:28thomasjfoxlinuxstb: I have (Open)Pandora support in my tree. I'll wait for your configure changes before doing the initial commit
00:38:38mshathlonxpbtw is that screen,which is shown when connected to USB, using different encoding than UTF-8?
00:38:41LloreanAlexP: What do you mean?
00:38:41AlexP[Saint]: Frankly, when it is one person disagreeing vs. a number of committers agreeing, no
00:38:44thomasjfoxlinuxstb: Pandora = new RaaA target
00:38:53AlexPLlorean: In answer to [Saint]
00:39:00LloreanAlexP: No, I meant about "why is there a play button?"
00:39:12[Saint]So....we're changing *all* cabbies to reflect this?
00:39:17AlexPLlorean: That was also in response to [Saint] :)
00:39:22AlexP[Saint]: Touchscreen only
00:39:27[Saint]I don't think that non-touch should be treated differently.
00:39:27mshathlonxpI can't f***** believe this - everything is in place now! :)
00:39:45Llorean[Saint]: In one they're indicators, in another they're buttons.
00:39:50LloreanObviously they're not buttons on non-touch.
00:40:00AlexP[Saint]: It is quite obvious IMO - one are indicators, you have other buttons, on the other they are the buttons
00:40:04*JdGordon_ adds to more points
00:40:13CIA-70r29392 build result: All green
00:40:23mshathlonxpto upload lang file to tracker I should register?
00:40:24LloreanIn fact, on non-touch there should only be the one play/pause/ff/rw indicator, while touch requires at least 3 buttons to be effective, and preferably four.
00:40:26JdGordon_[Saint]: on a non-touchscreen noone in their right mind would try to press the screen and think they are buttons
00:41:53LloreanAlexP: Ah, I misread. I read "I wonder why" not "I would wonder why" and thought you were talking about the general presence of one, not the conditional presence of one *while* playing.
00:42:19AlexPLlorean: Ah right, yes the latter
00:43:24LloreanTouch needs to be handled in different ways for a variety of reasons. For example, as [Saint] himself has mentioned, line size/spacing is probably going to be taller by default on Touch targets to account for the use of fingers to interface.
00:43:32[Saint]The problem I see, is that I don't think that the play-state button should change to what will happen when it's pressed, as opposed to displaying the current play state...without having an additional indicator that people may confuse as a button anyway.
00:43:47LloreanWhat might be wise is to come up with a list of expected/planned touch vs physical button differences, that can also aid theme designers going forward.
00:43:57LloreanAn "AdaptingToTouch" wiki page.
00:44:37mshathlonxpto upload file I should create new task?
00:44:40Llorean[Saint]: It's the artists job to create intuitively identifiable differences between a button an an indicator. For example, one can make buttons look visibly elevated in some manner, while an indicator is "flush'
00:44:48LloreanRight now we don't have those
00:44:58AlexPmshathlonxp: If you haven't already opened a task for it, yes
00:45:05LloreanBut with those (and especially with buttons that recess while pressed and elevate again when released or similar) it should be okay
00:45:09mshathlonxpbug or patch?
00:45:14mshathlonxppatch?
00:45:15AlexPmshathlonxp: patch
00:45:31[Saint]AlexP: Have you seen by any chance the way I have handled it in my "cabbie" theme?
00:45:31mshathlonxptranslation site?
00:45:54[Saint]AlexP: I can upload it if you want to have a play with the SDL app.
00:45:55AlexP[Saint]: No, I've only used the cabbie that comes with 480x800 android
00:46:20AlexP[Saint]: You can, but I'm not going to agree that I should press the play button to pause
00:46:37[Saint]I've done away with that horrible pop-up...but, I rely on intuition as opposed to "this does this, this does that" buttons.
00:46:57[Saint]I've dropped it on a few people with no instruction and said "make it work" as a test...all passed so far.
00:47:01AlexPIf it is what you think is intuitive then I guess from this conversation that I'm going to be lost
00:47:23[Saint]It was initially, but I have tested it on random members of the public also.
00:47:40AlexPAnyway, reply to the list
00:47:43AlexPI'm off to bed
00:47:46[Saint]I mean, obviously I built it for myself, but everyone so far figured out play/pause/stop.
00:50:06[Saint]Another thing regarding the ff/rwd buttons that's not necessarily locked to this discussion is....do we *need* them? I have them in my theme now, but in the initial draught of the theme I used a method where the playbar was used for seeking, and long press on either end was ffwd/rwd.
00:50:19 Join liar [0] (~liar@clnet-p09-185.ikbnet.co.at)
00:51:51JdGordon_most people would expect them
00:52:53pixelmain my theme I put skip (long press) and skip (short press) fwd/back buttons to the left and right of the progressbar and the bar is also touch sensitive
00:53:03linuxstbthomasjfox: Yes, pandora would be a new RaaA target.
00:53:16[Saint]pixelma: yes, that's what I did in my initial draught.
00:53:33[Saint]but, do you have buttons for it or rely on intuition and the fact you know it's there?
00:53:53pixelmain my case they are seperate buttons and I prefer that
00:54:16pixelmaseparate too
00:54:16[Saint]Is your theme finished? I'd like to give it a go.
00:54:46pixelmanot completely and suffers the above mentioned problems
00:54:59*[Saint] wonders how point 2 of AlexP's email even happens without horribly, horribly broken theme code.
00:55:37mshathlonxpAlexP did I added it correctly?
00:55:44 Join krazykit [0] (~krazykit@99-126-205-52.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net)
00:56:04[Saint]mshathlonxp: He went to bed.
00:56:19mshathlonxpI should too
00:56:28mshathlonxpI have to wake up after 3 hours
00:56:30mshathlonxp...
00:59:27CIA-70New commit by 03thomasjfox (r29393): Include config.h for strncmp RaaA maemo fix
01:00
01:01:29 Quit Jerom (Quit: Leaving.)
01:03:49 Quit Keripo (Quit: Leaving.)
01:03:59CIA-70r29393 build result: All green
01:09:50 Join t0rc [0] (~t0rc@unaffiliated/t0rc/x-5233201)
01:10:20jhMikeShmmm....Buschel should've upped the codec API if he changed mp3entry structure
01:10:26 Quit mshathlonxp (Quit: let's rock, ptfu, let's get some sleep)
01:13:44[Saint]Argh.....no wonder people dislike using the 480x800 cabbie
01:13:48[Saint]it's terrible.
01:14:20JdGordon_I wouldnt say terrible... but yes, it isnt up to par
01:15:11[Saint]why the hell does FFWD/RW pop up only on %Tl!?!
01:15:33[Saint]If those foolishly oversized icons weren't there....you could just display them all.
01:15:46[Saint]s/weren't there/were downsized/
01:16:33[Saint]They're far too big, there's no room even for a battery icon.
01:19:27[Saint]Yeah...if AlexP's experiences with cabbie and wanting to change it are based solely on that cabbie port (no offence thomasjfox) then I believe things need to be reviewed.
01:20:15pixelmathe n900, which this port was originally made for I think, has very small pixels. Maybe people felt the icons would be too small otherwise if used as buttons. Just a try of an explanation, I don't remember the details although I already saw it on 2 n900s
01:20:51linuxstbYes, I don't think the icons are too big on the n900
01:21:00thomasjfoxThe icons on the 800x480 cabbie port are very thumb friendly, at least on the n900
01:21:02Torneyeah, the n900 is 800x480 with a <3" diagonal
01:21:04[Saint]pixelma: Yeah...I considered that, but they could stand to be significantly downsized.
01:21:16Tornethe dpi is crazy high compared to our normal targets
01:21:28[Saint]Also the game of "how many viewports can we overlap at one point" in this theme is bound to cause problems.
01:21:49jhMikeSmaybe those ports need procedural images
01:21:59[Saint]In my opinion...it should be a patch on the tracker as opposed to being committed..but, too late for that now.
01:22:00thomasjfox[Saint]: IIRC the viewports don't overlap, at least not obviously
01:22:23[Saint]thomasjfox: they certainly do.
01:22:33pixelmathomasjfox: the popup menu definitely does
01:23:07[Saint]and if scrolling text in a viewport "behind" that scrolls...it'll look all worlds of ugly.
01:23:20[Saint]the VPs are in bad need of being re-done.
01:23:35thomasjfoxpixelma: Someone else checked it, too. Hmm. Trying to remember who it was. Maybe even [Saint]? ;)
01:23:45thomasjfox[Saint]: Feel free to change it!
01:23:57 Quit dfkt (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
01:23:58[Saint]Yeah...and you incorrectly reported that I found no problems with it before I even replied ;)
01:24:15[Saint]Me not replying wasn't "it's all good" ;)
01:24:37thomasjfox[Saint]: hehe
01:24:58[Saint]thomasjfox: I certainly will be changing it, but please don't see that as any type of reflection on your work.
01:25:06thomasjfox[Saint]: Anyway, feel free to fix it up. Just don't make the buttons too small ;)
01:25:28[Saint]However, I won't be doing anything until there is a clear direction as to where RaaA-Touch-Cabbie is headed.
01:25:28thomasjfox[Saint]: No worries, I'm not really into the WPS stuff yet
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01:26:36[Saint]There needs to be a discussion as to what'd being included/disincluded...what's a button/indicator...etc. What info to display as fallbacks if metadata isn't available, how many fallback/fail cases should be allowed for...etc.
01:27:05[Saint]If I made fixes to it now, it's be *my* fixes...and, apparently I have quite different ideas on what's intuitive.
01:30:43JdGordon_[Saint]: My suggestion would be 1) give each of the buttons a background so they are obviously buttons, 2) AA -> track info -> filename only
01:31:14JdGordon_the hidden ffwd/rewind buttons are moronic
01:32:06[Saint]I think we should fallback to something reasonably interesting if metadata for album/artist fails...but only if *both* of them fail.
01:32:40[Saint]ie. if there's no metadata for album/artist, display filename, bit/smaple rate and codec or something.
01:32:52[Saint]just *anything* other than "(root)"
01:33:09[Saint]*sample
01:33:21JdGordon_for next track or current?
01:33:32JdGordon_(root) should never be disaplyed (especially not for current)
01:33:37[Saint]Why not both?
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01:34:17[Saint]I had this conversation (or part of it) the other day with pixelma.
01:34:34JdGordon_I remember seeing it (and not reading it)... (root) should never be displayed
01:34:36[Saint]And, it's hard to come up with cases that work for a wide range of situations.
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01:36:05JdGordon_I would also love to see the playlist viewer getting more visibility
01:36:39***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:38:16[Saint]I have been trying to, though. Ie, if there's no metadata...and Dir1 and Dir2 are available it makes sense to assume that a sane directory structure is being used and use the folder names as psuedo-metadata. But if the check for Dir2 fails, it would be nicer to offer alternate info rather than try to display the same psuedo-data so I'd creata another case for Dir1 being present, and Dir2 not and display bitrate/samplerate/codec or something on the line th
01:38:57[Saint]And if the check for both Dir1 and 2 fail, then displaying *anything* other than "filename, root, root" (obviously there's nothing wrong with filename).
01:39:03JdGordon_if we fall back on the filename it should use some ascii-art and not assume anything about the folder structre
01:39:16JdGordon_Music
01:39:24JdGordon_`- foo
01:39:28JdGordon_ `- bar
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01:40:50[Saint]I also want to wrap the "Next Track:" (and the metadata and/or fallbacks it displays) in cabbie in %Fn, so that it only displays if there's a next track actually present.
01:41:00[Saint]otherwise ?????? gets displayed.
01:41:04[Saint]which is hideous.
01:42:37[Saint]and if there isn't a next track available, do we leave the space it would occupy blank? Or should we offer a few lines of additional relevant data (as I've done in my cabbie port)?
01:43:27JdGordon_I personally tihnk any extra info other than the band/ablum/name is pointless
01:44:08[Saint]This could be true...but on some targets, it will leave an obvious hole that would be nice to fill.
01:44:33[Saint]though I guess the now playing info could be positioned conditionally for this case to make it less obvious.
01:46:43CIA-70New commit by 03jethead71 (r29394): Byteswap routines don't really need 'asm volatile', just 'asm' since it should be safe to move them for optimizing. Clean up the line endings for ARM.
01:47:15[Saint]I may split off an additional thread in the dev-list, specifically regarding what info to display in fallback cases, and how many cases should be covered.
01:47:52JdGordon_why is blank space bad?
01:48:28[Saint]It's not necessarily *bad*, but it can look crap if it's not proportionate.
01:48:33jhMikeSbecause it is void
01:49:02[Saint](hence my secondary suggestion of displaying it in an alternate position instead of adding more lines of info)
01:49:11thomasjfox[Saint]: regarding the 800x480 cabbie button size, here's a picture of rockbox running on the pandora: http://i52.tinypic.com/eb62ax.jpg
01:50:03JdGordon_when did that happen?
01:51:28[Saint]thomasjfox: I take it that the 800x480 one suffers the same problems as the 480x800 one (which was the theme being discussed iiuc).
01:51:34[Saint]+?
01:51:34CIA-70r29394 build result: All green
01:52:19thomasjfox[Saint]: Yes
01:55:22[Saint]thomasjfox: Fwiw...they look too big to me even in a landscape theme.
01:55:44[Saint]In portrait...they're massive (and dissproportionate to the FFWD/RWD icons)
01:56:19thomasjfox[Saint]: If you come up with a preferred icon size sometime the next days, I can give it a test run on the n900
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01:57:40[Saint]I'm working on iconsets for cabbie now (menu icons and viewers, not play state etc.), which is quite time consuming...but eventually I would like to go over the cabbies with a fine toothed comb.
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01:58:31[Saint]there's far too many targets that duplicate graphics for cabbie, even in the exact same dimensions and rotation...which is just stupid and adds bloat to our sources.
01:59:09[Saint]cabbie 320x240 and 240x320 are perfect examples of this.
01:59:13JdGordon_what do you propose though?
01:59:42[Saint]If there's already a graphic available in the same dimensions....use it?
01:59:52[Saint]why duplicate them 2 or three times?
02:00
02:00:02JdGordon_ah i misread
02:00:10[Saint]Oh, right ;)
02:00:59thomasjfox[Saint]: SVG files + rsvg would be the best so we don't add binary bloat to the source tree every time a new LCD resolution pops up
02:01:22JdGordon_binary bloat in sources is not a problem
02:01:30JdGordon_SVG files is the way to go though
02:01:44JdGordon_or some other high quality source
02:02:59[Saint]some even use the same sized icons, but have a black border around that increases the overall size of the icon (themers being lazy and not working out VP relative placement), if that black border wasn't there it would be the same dimensions as other icons in the source.
02:03:05[Saint]Several cabbies do that also.
02:03:42[Saint]I'd be qilling to hazard a guess that a good ~20 images for cabbie are just bloat.
02:03:46[Saint]*willing too
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02:05:35JdGordon_what really needs to happen is setup proper guidlines for cabbie which all screen sizes follow
02:05:58JdGordon_portrait does FOO, landscape does BAR
02:06:11JdGordon_with specific priorities for when things dont fit
02:06:25[Saint]Yeah, I want to cover that also...but I'm wondering if I add this to AlexP's thread...or start my own.
02:06:28JdGordon_then make sure all cabbies in svn follow then
02:06:44[Saint]I want to "standardize" cabbie.
02:06:59JdGordon_the layout can almost be generated for a given lcd size
02:07:21[Saint]*almost*....kinda.
02:07:46[Saint]a script could probably make a usuable skin, but aesthetics would probably need adjustment.
02:08:00JdGordon_you'd then need protait-{small, large, touchscreen} and landscape-{small, large, touchscreen}
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02:08:48JdGordon_a smart script could almost certainly build the viewports and wps template
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04:51:56CIA-70New commit by 03jethead71 (r29395): pcmbuf: Clear last_chunksize at stop so we don't think there's a buffer in progress.
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04:56:19CIA-70r29395 build result: All green
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06:17:24[Saint]gah...user "skydrive" wants a banning please somebody:
06:17:26[Saint]http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,24106.msg178312.html#msg178312
06:21:41JdGordon_did you delete it already? or kismet yet it?
06:25:16[Saint]Nope....hmmm, perhaps I caught it before the antispam did.
06:25:21[Saint]Is it not there anymore?
06:25:26JdGordon_yeah
06:25:35[Saint](I have no privs to be able to moderate the forums, btw)
06:25:36JdGordon_and not in removed posts also so must have been auto nuked
06:26:29 Quit mackat (Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout))
06:26:44[Saint]it's just done that weird thing where it's still visible in recent posts: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?action=recent
06:27:30JdGordon_ok, bnut its not in the thread so all good :)
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08:16:38CIA-70New commit by 03Buschel (r29396): Bump codec's API version. This is related to r29388 which changed the mp3entry struct.
08:20:56CIA-70r29396 build result: All green
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10:54:45*TheSeven wonders how to go on with CE-ATA support
10:55:11TheSevenmy FAT driver patch seems to still has some bugs that need to be sorted out
10:55:31TheSevenso there are basically two questions:
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10:56:04TheSeven1. do we want that kind of thing at all? (removing on-stack sector buffers, optionally making all storage-accesses aligned)
10:56:29TheSeven2. should I try to debug that locally and keep it as a patch on flyspray, or is it worth creating a development branch in SVN?
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11:11:44linuxstbTheSeven: Regarding 1., that's very useful on some targets because the stack is in IRAM, and there isn't enough IRAM (I expect) to put them there statically. But I guess you could use a macro to define them "static" on your target.
11:12:20linuxstbRegarding 2., I guess it depends on whether other people are likely to help.
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11:21:51TheSevenlinuxstb: 2. might be helpful to keep this thing in sync and have people help testing
11:22:04TheSeven(because they don't need to manually apply the patch all the time)
11:26:10thomasjfoxZagor: hey
11:26:25TheSevenlinuxstb: doing 1. by making variables static would kill multivolume and waste space because of unneccessary duplication
11:26:33thomasjfoxZagor: How did I get the nice developer icon on rockbox.org/irc?
11:26:59Tornethomasjfox: the logbot can see your cloak
11:27:16TheSeventhe approach i'm currently trying is to have one static sector buffer in the FAT code that is shared amongst all codethat needs one (most file system metadata write accesses)
11:27:33thomasjfoxTorne: Cloak is on for some days now
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11:35:28ZagorTorne: unfortunately it's not that elegant. the log view uses a fixed list of nicks.
11:35:39Torneoh.
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11:37:11Zagormainly because the cloak/address is not repeated after the midnight log rotation, so the information is not in each line
11:37:16Zagor*each file
11:42:15Zagorthomasjfox: fixed now
11:42:29n1scouldn't it update the list automatically when someone with a rockbox cloak appeared?
11:43:05Zagorpatches are welcome :)
11:43:55thomasjfoxZagor: thanks!
11:44:15n1s:P
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11:58:17thomasjfoxkugel, kugel_: hey. Are you there?
11:58:30kugel_thomasjfox: yes, now :)
11:58:46thomasjfoxhehe. I'm currently tracking down an issue in the SDL app with sigaltstack
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11:59:07thomasjfoxThe problem is not sigaltstack, it just leads to a different shutdown sequence
11:59:20thomasjfoxEvery second time I close the app, it hangs on shutdown
11:59:45thomasjfoxsim_kernel_shutdown() gets called and sets do_exit=true
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12:00:18thomasjfoxBut check_exit() is never called so the app just hangs there
12:00:39thomasjfoxI'm currently testing if adding check_exit() at the end of sim_kernel_shutdown() helps
12:15:28thomasjfoxkugel_: After sim_kernel_shutdown(), there's just on system thread left and it hangs here: http://pastie.org/1605753
12:19:57thomasjfoxkugel_: Removing disable_irq() and the destruction of the IRQ mutex in sim_kernel_shutdown() helped
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12:39:11pondlifeTrying to build RaaA / SDL / Cygwin... where should realpath() be defined?
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12:41:50thomasjfoxpondlife: realpath() should be in stdlib.h
12:42:15thomasjfoxpondlife: Conforms to BSD / POSIX2001
12:42:57thomasjfoxkugel, kugel_: Which one of you is the real one? ;)
12:43:22kugelthere's only one real kugel :)
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12:43:51thomasjfoxkugel: hehe. Did you see my message?
12:44:07kugelyep
12:45:48kugelI wonder why check_exit isn't called
12:46:53thomasjfoxkugel: IRQs are disabled after sim_kernel_shutdown(), the thread hangs in set_irq_level(), see http://pastie.org/1605753
12:47:58kugelbut core_sleep() enables interrupts again
12:48:10thomasjfoxkugel: Probably this is a race since sim_kernel_shutdown() gets called by the event thread
12:49:03thomasjfoxkugel: sim_kernel_shutdown also destroys sim_irq_mtx and sim_thread_cond (if that matters)
12:50:11thomasjfoxkugel: I just did 25 successful shutdown using sigaltstack when I removed the disable_irq part
12:50:42thomasjfoxkugel: Let me try with disable_irq() in place and commented out destruction of sim_irq_mtx
12:52:01kugelthomasjfox: I think the event thread perhaps shouldn't call sim_kernel_shutdown
12:52:46pixelmapondlife: welcome back (from Glastonbury ;) )
12:53:05pondlifeThanks... it took a while ;)
12:53:38dionoeahello
12:54:17dionoeakugel: I just got Gingerbread on my phone. I'll probably try writting a native pcm driver for rockbox this weekend to see if it fixes the random audio freezes
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12:58:26pondlifeHmm, Cygwin does define realpath (in cygwin/stdlib.h) - can't see why it's not being included...
12:59:38pondlifeAh - only for cplusplus :/
13:00
13:01:05pondlifeNope, I misread
13:04:17thomasjfoxkugel: Yes, it feels like a race to me, too.
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13:05:24thomasjfoxoh no, kugel_ is back ;)
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13:09:30thomasjfoxkugel: The destruction of the IRQ mutex "causes" the issue. Like you said, core_sleep() enables the IRQs again
13:12:09kugeldionoea: I don't experience audio freezes
13:12:34kugelthomasjfox: yea, that's why I think the event thread shouldn't call that
13:14:32thomasjfoxkugel: ok. I'll leave for cooking now. If you have the time to come up with a patch, I can give it a good test run (wrote a script to start rockbox in a loop so I just have to close it)
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13:26:21pondlifeHmm, the mingw stdlib I have lacks realpath.
13:27:21pondlifeReasonable - it never claimed POSIX compliance... but why is Cygwin using it?
13:29:05pondlifeAh - does RaaA configure explicitly use MinGW over Cygwin
13:29:06pondlife?
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13:36:53***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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14:03:41user1213hello, is there a way to install rockbox on a ipod nano 2gen?
14:04:13*kugel wonders about the state of the rsb discussion about autoresume
14:04:27linuxstbuser1213: Yes
14:05:13 Quit Dreamxtreme (Quit: +++ OK ATH OK)
14:06:37user1213im having trouble finding instructions on how. i found a forum entry from a year ago about it being encrytpted and something called OSOS, but im not a programmer and am lost in thier discussion
14:07:10user1213anyone willing to guide me?
14:07:28n1suser1213: it's described in the rockbox manual
14:07:45user1213yikes, i missed that
14:07:59kugeldionoea: ping
14:11:25robin0800user1213, http://download.rockbox.org/daily/manual/rockbox-ipodnano2g/rockbox-build.html#rockbox-buildch2.html
14:13:26dionoeakugel: ?
14:13:55kugeldionoea: I once had some work for a pcm rewrite that hopefully makes it more stable (even though it is stable for me)
14:14:06kugelI'm currently searching it in my stashes
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14:14:43dionoeahum ... ok.
14:15:23dionoeaI'll still probably give it a try with the natice C api since that would probably simplify the data transmission chain
14:15:50dionoea*native
14:16:09kugeldionoea: sure, but it's 2.3+ only :)
14:17:08dionoeaindeed. Can't we provide different drivers for different versions? (with runtime detection. I think thatit's possible for Java code. I don't know if it is for native code too)
14:17:58kugeldon't know
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14:19:28kugeldionoea: http://pastie.org/1606043
14:19:40dionoeathanks
14:20:09dionoeaI'll give it a try to see if it fixes the freezes
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14:21:45kugelthe idea is to write the chunk in one go, eliminating the logic needed to split the chunks
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14:23:28user1213Awesome. Its running now :) thank you very much for your support. I had this for my archos long ago, combined they were awesome. I rewired the mic input and had really good field recordings before getting a serious solution. so few things are made that are truely useful. this program is one of them. now, if we could just transfer this mentality to merchandice...thanks again, good bye
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14:51:26kugellinuxstb: strncmp is a c library function. calling it via rb pointer is likely to fail if it expands to a macro
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15:17:26n1sso, do i need to install iloader to get rb on my classic or is there a regular rb bootloader?
15:17:51TheSevennot yet
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15:18:19n1sTheSeven: is it planned?
15:18:41soaaHey everyone! I've got a quick question regarding RaaA.
15:18:42TheSevenonce we figure out how to access the firmware partition and how osos signing works, probably
15:19:07thomasjfoxsoaa: Which port? ;)
15:19:16n1sah, so iloader runs via some exploit?
15:19:23soaathomasjfox: None in particular.
15:19:29TheSeveniloader is flashed to the nor the same way as on nano2g
15:19:48thomasjfoxsoaa: Shoot!
15:20:03soaaSince most conceivable target OSs have their native UI toolkits...
15:20:07TheSeven(for the NOR bootloader, symmetric (aes-sha1) signing is still accepted)
15:20:21TheSevenand we boot through a DFU exploit
15:20:30TheSeven(for the initial installation)
15:20:56soaaI was wondering how difficult it would be to separate core and UI in Rockbox, so that perhaps we can reimplement the UI for RaaA targets using native UIs.
15:21:06n1sright, so quite a lot to do before a bootloader similar to other rockbox targets can be made/installed then
15:21:26Bagdersoaa: hehe, that's exactly what we've talked about and Zagor's been slowly started working on...
15:21:33n1ssoaa: i think Zagor is looking into doing something like that
15:21:33kugelsoaa: it's sure possible but a lot of work
15:21:45soaaWhoa, three responses. I like this.
15:21:49TheSevenn1s: yep
15:22:02kugeland I'm afraid we'd lose some features by using native widgets
15:22:05*n1s goes to install iloader then
15:22:12kugel(namely theming capabilities)
15:22:21TheSevenn1s: which generation do you have btw?
15:22:34n1sTheSeven: dunno, a 120GB
15:22:36Lloreankugel: I imagine a "native widget version" would be offered as a separate download possibly?
15:22:48TheSevenn1s: that's 2G
15:23:40soaaI was thinking something like Rockbox UI be default, but native widgets could be enabled as an option with a restart.
15:23:53soaaThat way, there wouldn't be two versions for the same target.
15:23:59n1sTheSeven: it should work?
15:24:23TheSevenyep, all of them should work
15:24:34TheSeventhe old 160GB needs a bit of a hack though
15:25:24soaaIf the Rockbox exposed a complete API for controls, it would just be a matter of implementing different UIs using that API.
15:26:24soaaOr am I taking this too simply? ;)
15:27:02Bagdersoaa: no, we've discussed exactly that
15:27:24n1salthough "just" implementing a ui is no small task
15:27:39Tornesoaa: first you'd have to introduce controls
15:27:43Bagderand making a "codec lib" out of the rockbox codecs is not a small job either
15:27:44Tornesince currently we dont' ahve any
15:29:01soaaMind you, a Rockbox core and a native Android UI would make a /killer/ music player. Support for all audio codecs imaginable, sound options, and ReplayGain.
15:29:38soaaNow, if only that headphone jack on my phone would play nice with that huge plug my headphones have.
15:30:08soaaBut I'm happy to hear that I had a generally workable idea, and that there's someone working on it already. ;)
15:30:22Torneer
15:30:26Torneno, there's not anyone working on it
15:30:40soaaOops.
15:30:46Torneand it's not a particularly workable idea without changing a lot about hwo rockbox works :)
15:30:49soaaAt least looking into doing it?
15:31:15BagderI want to see it happen
15:31:25Torneyah, that doesnt' mean it's a bad idea :)
15:31:30CIA-70New commit by 03thomasjfox (r29397): RaaA: Create full config directory tree during initialization ...
15:31:34Tornejust that it's goign to be a lot of work whcih nobody has started or even really planned
15:31:42soaaGSoC project perhaps?
15:31:55soaaOr too big for that?
15:33:04Bagderits very much ripping apart the core of Rockbox and putting it back in a different order
15:33:14Bagderthat's not an easy job for a newcomer
15:33:47soaaSome refactoring that's going to be. I'd look into it too if I had more free time.
15:34:14soaaAlas, just got myself two clients who need fairly complex websites in a fairly short time.
15:35:54CIA-70r29397 build result: All green
15:36:09Zagoras bagder said, I've begun doing some work on it
15:36:29Zagor"librockplay"
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15:39:34n1sTheSeven: the ipod rebooted and asks for a ubi file but no mass storage device appeared and the /dev node vanished too
15:40:24soaaZagor: Any place where progress is posted, or all IRC for now?
15:41:09ZagorI haven't published anything yet. it's early in the "untable" phase still.
15:41:18soaaAlright, cool.
15:41:18TheSevenn1s: can you paste the dmesg output?
15:41:20Zagoruntangle
15:41:38soaaI'll keep checking the IRC from time to time then. (:
15:41:51soaaGotta go for now. Catch y'all later!
15:42:00 Quit soaa (Quit: business)
15:45:53n1sTheSeven: http://pastebin.com/LBWpekBk
15:46:12n1si tried again, got the same result
15:47:08TheSevenyou may have to wait longer or unload ehci_hcd
15:47:13TheSeventhis is a known linux bug
15:47:31n1sok, i'll try that
15:50:50 Quit soap (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
15:53:04linuxstbWould anyone interested in RaaA or the build system be able to look at my patch at http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/11966 and see if they can find the bug I've introduced?
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15:57:07n1sTheSeven: no, if i unload ehci_hcd libusb segfaults when i try to run ipoddfu.py
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16:01:39kugelI'm looking at the AA fonts patch. it looks good to me
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16:05:26kugelare there any objections?
16:05:35thomasjfoxlinuxstb: I can give it a test run later tonight, have to leave soon
16:07:02gevaertskugel: I'm in favour
16:07:23casainhopamaury: hello :-) −− I will now see why you can't build the code, probably I didn't commit all my changes to SVN :-(
16:09:26kugelgevaerts: I was a bit unhappy with the code duplication in plugins but it doesn't seem to be doable better
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16:09:56kugelrockbox paint "draws" into a separate buffer (not the framebuffer) and mpegplayer draws with 90° rotation
16:10:25gevaertsExactly. Code that has its own font handling gets duplication...
16:11:01n1sheh, trying to unload ehci_hcd after running ipoddfu.py hung modprobe, killing that process and then unplugging the ipod cause the kernel to oops :)
16:11:10gevaertsThat can only be fixed by overhauling the font API, and I suspect that adding support for these things will have a noticeable impact on core binsize
16:11:16kugelthey already have the duplication for mono fonts, it just adds the corresponding duplication for aaf
16:11:23linuxstbWhich FS task is this? (AA fonts)
16:11:34kugelfs#8961
16:11:56thomasjfoxThe code has first been submitted 2008 :o)
16:12:02gevaertskugel: maybe there's room for an "advanced" font handling library in pluginlib?
16:12:13gevaertsI don't think the commit should wait for that though
16:13:30gevaertshm, I probably should have added my results to that task back when I measured speed and binsize impact...
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16:17:05kugel_i wish convttf had support to output mono font, it's a nice tool
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16:29:08linuxstbkugel_: convttf is so old it has the old Rockbox (C) header - before it was changed to explicitly say v2 or later. I'm not sure if that's important for such a tool though (Bagder?)
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16:37:01Bagderits a bit separate so its not that terribly important, no
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16:51:18amiconn[01:21:07] <Torne> yeah, the n900 is 800x480 with a <3" diagonal <== ehum, the display is not *that* small, it's 3.5". 266 dpi
16:51:34Torneit looks prettu small to me
16:51:54Tornei dunno ;)
16:55:22casainhoseen pamaury
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16:55:55pamauryhello, I see that you committed some changes, I'll have a look
16:56:19casainhopamaury: yes, please, try to build the bootloader now
16:56:30casainhopamaury: it should build now
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16:56:43casainhopamaury: do you want me to add you on sourceforge SVN?
16:59:44pamauryno, no need, I'm just trying to help right now :)
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17:04:04 Part Zagor
17:09:18pamaurycasainho: do you use tools/configure to build the bootloader ?
17:10:09casainhopamaury: yes
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17:10:50casainhopamaury: it is device #132 "Lyre V2"
17:10:54pamaurybecause it doesn't work, I do ../tools/configure, ask for Lyre V2, bootloader and gets lots of errors about CONFIG_CPU not being defined
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17:11:28casainhopamaury: it creates the Makefile, right?
17:11:42pamauryyes
17:12:01casainhoCONFIG_CPU??? maybe there is some .h file I missed to commit... I will cheack
17:12:12pamaurysomething in export/config/ perhaps
17:13:00casainhoah, there is an header file, I will commit right now!
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17:14:19casainhook, lyre_v2.h is now on SVN :-)
17:17:34pamaurycasainho: that nearly compiles, now it says it can't find target/arm/imx233/crt0.o which is rather strange. By the way, why is there a arget/arm/imx233/crt0.S and a arget/arm/imx233/crt0.s ??
17:18:49casainhopamaury: eheh, I will check
17:18:54 Quit Bagder (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
17:19:22pamaurycasainho: I find out, I did an error when changing the SOURCES file
17:19:32pamauryhum, no it's not sufficient
17:20:26casainhopamaury: svn status shows an '!' on crt0.s file... :-(
17:21:45pamauryok it compiles
17:22:03pamaurydon't remember what "!" means, probably that you deleted the file while it was in the repo
17:22:29casainhopamaury: ok, if it compiles, then you have the same code as me, I think
17:23:38pamauryI get the same error message as you
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17:24:31casainhopamaury: well, could you please try understand why? ... seems to be something about the code generated from Rockbox bootloader Makefile...
17:26:03pamauryI'll try...
17:29:04pamaurycasainho: you tried without the " > 0x40000000" in the *.sb file right ?
17:29:28pamaurybut then it doesn't load in the SDRAM..
17:31:07casainhopamaury: right...
17:31:34casainhopamaury: maybe you can try find some examples of usage, to load Linux image file...
17:32:12casainhopamaury: I think I saw the example of linux image file on Chumby sources: http://files.chumby.com/source/
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17:41:23dewdroidGosh...that Buschel is a hard man to catch up with
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17:59:11pamaurycasainho: I find out a way to make elftosb hapyp
17:59:14pamauryhappy
17:59:31casainhopamaury: good! what is like? :-)
18:00
18:00:16gevaertsGive it flowers!
18:01:01pamaurychange boot.lds from this:
18:01:01pamaury.text 0 : AT (DRAMORIG + DRAMSIZE - 1M)
18:01:01pamauryto this:
18:01:31pamauryanyway, .text 0 : AT (DRAMORIG + DRAMSIZE - 1M) doesn't make much sense with flat address space I think
18:01:50casainhochange to waht?
18:02:48pamauryin boot.lds, change ".text 0 : AT (DRAMORIG + DRAMSIZE - 1M)" to ".text (DRAMORIG + DRAMSIZE - 1M) :" and in system_init_sb.db "load rockbox_bootloader > ..." to "load rockbox_bootloader;"
18:03:37casainhopamaury: ok, thanks. But I would like to understand that changes
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18:05:08casainhopamaury: I am not sure I understand that changes. Do you believe it will work?
18:05:19pamauryin boot.lds, your code is rather strange, it means use 0 as virtual address but something else as loading address. Since you do not use the MMU, virtual address = physical address so having a loading address different from the virtual one doesn't make much sense in my opinion.
18:05:42pamauryyou should try it but the output of elftosb suggest it will do what you want
18:05:50casainhopamaury: ???
18:05:54casainhopamaury: because
18:06:17casainhopamaury: the code should run with address DRAMORIG + DRAMSIZE - 1M
18:06:26casainhoI will put bootloader there
18:06:53pamauryyes, that what will happen
18:07:25casainhoI thought "text 0" would be the address on ELF file...
18:07:48casainhoand AT (DRAMORIG + DRAMSIZE - 1M) the final address, where code is linked to it
18:08:06casainhook, thanks!!!
18:08:16casainhoI will try it soon and I will report back!!!
18:15:54casainhopamaury: well, the report from elftosb2 seems good, just what I needed ;-)
18:17:11casainhopamaury: I don't have the hardware with me here, but tomorrow I see using oscilloscope, if LED really blinks :-)
18:17:42pamauryok
18:17:56pamauryhope it helps
18:18:10casainhopamaury: this is what I were looking for
18:19:09casainhopamaury: if the Rockbox bootloader code (blink LED) runs, then I am setup to continue the development (now with clock @ 454MHz and external SDRAM init and blink LED code running on it) :-)
18:20:25casainhopamaury: are you in suck good advance as this, on the other target you are working on?
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18:20:33casainho*such
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18:23:11pamauryon my Mio I can run custom code, not exactly rockbox code yet because currently, the only way to load code is horribly slow and impossible to debug, so I'm trying to develop a bootloader to load code through usb. On the other hand, I have LCD working, USB nearly working, and I know much of the pins.
18:24:27casainhopamaury: great!
18:25:46casainhopamaury: I have the hardware under control, as I have JTAG debug, hardware is fully OpenSource, etc, but I don't have yet SDCard drivers nor USB, nor LCD
18:26:06casainhopamaury: do you have SDCard working? if so, maybe I can reuse the code, right?
18:27:28pamaurythe Mio doesn't not use the imx233, the fuze+ does but I don't have one yet, I should get one on sunday, I haven't started development for the imx233 yet
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18:30:44casainhopamaury: ah, ok. Do you know if there is any code I can reuse on Rockbox tree, for the imx233, maybe from Fuze+?
18:31:36pamauryIf I'm able to write code for the fuze+, you should be able to reuse the code for SD, usb, all the system part (clocks, ...)
18:32:02casainhopamaury: I didn't know you were the only one working on it...
18:32:43pamauryfor now, yeah, but perhaps when I'll have a basis working other people will join the port
18:33:30casainhopamaury: I would love to provide/sell this board so others could hack using it. I guess would be much more easy to have JTAG and serial debub. Well, Chumby HAcker board with imx233 is also availbale in the market!!!
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18:35:54pamaurySome important things are really specific to the fuze+ unfortunately
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18:57:58mshathlonxpwhere can I find other .lang files?
18:58:24LambdaCalculus37mshathlonxp: There's a bunch in Flyspray.
18:58:35*mshathlonxp can't find
19:00
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19:01:32LambdaCalculus37mshathlonxp: Did you post one under FS #11967?
19:01:50 Quit casainho (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101206121845])
19:02:00mshathlonxpyep, that's me
19:03:56LambdaCalculus37mshathlonxp: Did you see the comment?
19:04:31mshathlonxpcould be any other reasons why I would like to see some files that aren't interesting to me? :)
19:06:03LambdaCalculus37No no, he only asked that you put your name into the .lang file so you can receive proper credit.
19:06:31mshathlonxpyeah, I understood that - but I have no idea where to put it ;)
19:06:51gevaertsmshathlonxp: the source has lots of lang files...
19:07:38*mshathlonxp as always, can't find anything...
19:08:25mshathlonxpin any case, I'm currently tired as well, that could affect my ability to think
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19:23:22kugelUnhelpful: ping
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19:29:21preglowkugel: you use cyanogenmod on a legend, rite?
19:29:26mshathlonxpok, if I'll put in my lang file my name and surname, will that be enough?
19:29:36LambdaCalculus37mshathlonxp: Yup, that's perfect.
19:29:58LambdaCalculus37Once that's done, post a new version of the .lang file, and it'll be committed.
19:30:11 Quit LambdaCalculus37 (Quit: back to the daily grind)
19:31:28kugelpreglow: that's right
19:31:38preglowkugel: stable or experimental?
19:34:45AlexPkugel: Is there an android sim, or do I use the sdl app for this?
19:35:58mshathlonxpdone
19:36:11kugelpreglow: nightly :)
19:36:24mshathlonxpcan anyone explain me why screen, that is shown during USB connection isn't in UTF-8?
19:36:25kugelAlexP: there's the emulator in the sdk
19:36:42kugeland the sdl app of course
19:37:04***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:37:06AlexPAs I just built that, started it, and had fallback wps etc.
19:37:14AlexP*built the sd app
19:37:18gevaertsmshathlonxp: huh? What do you mean?
19:37:20AlexPspecifying 480x800
19:37:51AlexPkugel: I selected sdl, entered screen res, did make then ran ./rockbox - did I miss a step?
19:38:12gevaertsAlexP: yes, make install
19:38:38mshathlonxpmy nano currently is showing USB plug and txt "keyboard mode blah blah blah", of course that txt is in latvian, but instead of two latvian signs there's a two dotted squares
19:38:53mshathlonxpsorry, three
19:39:04AlexPgevaerts: I tried that, but it wanted to write to /usr/local/bin so I was hoping that there was a way to install it to the build directory, like the sim does
19:39:09gevaertsmshathlonxp: ah, what you're probably seeing is the USB screen using sysfont
19:39:19gevaertsAlexP: you can tell configure where you want the thing
19:39:29AlexPah, in advanced I guess
19:39:30AlexPcheers
19:39:59gevaertsmshathlonxp: that's because using any other font can require disk access, which can not be done during USB
19:40:10mshathlonxpok
19:40:35mshathlonxpso nobody will fix this so I'll have to try to fix latvian signs out of that text string :)
19:40:39AlexPgevaerts: where exactly, I cant find it. Or do I need to pass it to configure?
19:40:46kugelAlexP: use −−prefix
19:40:56gevaertsmshathlonxp: well, we do want it fixed, but that's not easy unfortunately
19:41:18AlexPkugel: so "configure −−prefix /home/alex/blah" for instance?
19:41:25mshathlonxpso as I tought, it will be easier to try to figure out txt without these signs
19:41:27kugelI alwas do −−prefix=./usr, then ./rockbox
19:41:29mshathlonxpor simply ignore them
19:41:37AlexPkugel: thanks
19:42:04kugel(usr needs to exist IIRC)
19:42:17kugeland you still need make install
19:44:19AlexPThanks, works fine :)
19:51:11preglowkugel: easy to upgrade builds? guess i'll just go for nightly as well if so
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20:13:14kugelpreglow: very easy
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20:13:44kugelyou can apply the rom (it's just a zip file) with rom manager or in recovery mode
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20:25:29AlexPheh, the mrobe already has play/pause buttons the other way round :)
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20:28:35linuxstbAlexP: You're looking for consistency? ;)
20:28:37pixelmayou might want to add "500" for clarity ;)
20:28:57AlexPlinuxstb: good point :)
20:29:02AlexPpixelma: and yes, that one :)
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20:41:42AlexP240x400 is pretty buggered
20:42:07linuxstbkugel: I'm looking at line 685 of buildzip.pl: $app = ($modelname eq "application");. IIUC, this is never true, even for application builds, for "make zip", because the value of $modelname is "\"application\"" - i.e. it actually includes the quotes.
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20:42:32*linuxstb guesses he never saw that...
20:42:42*linuxstb continues for the logs...
20:43:12linuxstbIn tools/root.make, there seems to be inconsistency - some calls to buildzip.pl use \"$modelname\", but others use "$modelname".
20:43:23linuxstbOr rather $(MODELNAME)
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20:47:38AlexPkugel, linuxstb: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/344544/
20:47:56AlexPFor now it just swaps play/pause and always shows ffwd/rew
20:50:15linuxstbAlexP: Don't ask me to understand WPS code...
20:50:30AlexPOK :)
20:51:05AlexPI put the swapped play/pause inside a conditional that checks for touchscreen so that if a non-touchscreen target ends up using it then they'll be the right way round
20:52:54linuxstbkugel: If you are really here, can you check the logs from 10 minutes ago?
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20:56:05AlexPmshathlonxp: What is your full name?
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20:57:37kugellinuxstb: Don't ask me to understand perl code...
20:57:37kugel:)
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20:58:18linuxstbkugel: svn blame says you wrote it...
20:58:58kugelmake zip works in svn, doesn't it?
20:59:32linuxstbYes. But if your code is fixed to do what it should, then it doesn't...
20:59:40linuxstb(if that makes any sense...)
21:00
21:00:29linuxstbSee my patch at FS #11966 - I changed things to pass a $app parameter to buildzip.pl, and this breaks it, because it works.
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21:00:49kugelreally, I can't really do and don't really want to do perl, so it's sure possible that what I wrote there is buggy
21:01:22AlexPkugel: That WPS thing look OK to you?
21:01:48AlexPlinuxstb: I just left the play/pause button still showing ffwd/rew status when you ffwd/rew for now
21:01:56kugelAlexP: I don't know wps code either :P
21:02:01AlexPhah :)
21:02:07AlexPWell, I did test it :)
21:02:14kugelnot that well at least. I suspect it'll be good if it works
21:02:40bertrikThis looks fine to me to commit: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/11967
21:03:05AlexPbertrik: I've just removed a load of superfluous header, and am waiting for his real name :)
21:03:18bertrikIs there anything else needed to get latviesu (latvian) language working?
21:03:29bertrikAlexP, he has his real name in the new patch
21:03:32AlexPneeds adding to SOURCES
21:03:50AlexPbertrik: ah, I didn't see he updated it
21:04:02 Quit fkhodkov (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
21:04:02AlexPbertrik: Go ahead, just a bit of header to delete
21:04:45bertrikHe trimmed the header too, just the basic rockbox GPL header + his real name in the file
21:04:50AlexPah, cool
21:05:12AlexPSo just add it to SOURCES in apps/lang/ I thinl
21:05:20 Quit Sochiro (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
21:05:30bertrikand docs/CREDITS I suppose, right?
21:05:36AlexPyep
21:06:20bertrikOk, I'll test it on target and commit sometime later this evening
21:06:27AlexPcoolio
21:06:33AlexP3.8 branch too :)
21:11:35linuxstbkugel: So that's all you have to say? i.e. you're refusing to fix it?
21:15:03CIA-70New commit by 03alex (r29398): Touchscreen WPS changes: ...
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21:19:00CIA-70r29398 build result: All green
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21:26:08CIA-70New commit by 03bertrik (r29399): Latvian language translation, FS #11967 by Mārtiņš Šimis
21:28:43pixelmaAlexP: I really think with the change to a button style on touchscreen targets, the cabbiev2 icons should look a bit different
21:29:30pixelmaplayback control buttons, not playback state
21:30:02CIA-70r29399 build result: All green
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21:30:43AlexPpixelma: Probably would be nice
21:31:44AlexPpixelma: But then, they are the same as all the other buttons
21:32:09pixelmawhich other buttons?
21:32:23CIA-70New commit by 03bertrik (r29400): Latvian language translation - FS #11967 by Mārtiņš Šimis
21:32:23AlexPffwd, rew, repeat, shuffle, volume, ...
21:32:54pixelmamaybe those should get a redesign too then
21:33:05AlexPPossibly
21:33:16AlexPBut at the moment the look of all the buttons is consistent
21:33:38pixelmabut not obvious that those are buttons
21:34:09AlexPI certainly wouldn't object, but I'm no artist
21:35:07pixelmaa quick idea I just had won't look to good if the style of all of them would change as it currently seems to do when used in %?Tl :\
21:35:40pixelmaand the screen is touched
21:37:08***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:38:25AlexPThey could do with looking more buttony
21:41:24kugelis it really so un-obvious that those are buttons? I mean we're talking about touchscreen where you treat everything as a button at first
21:41:57kugela fellow student who never used rockbox before identified those as buttons just fine
21:42:07AlexPkugel: I don't think it is bad, but if someone wanted to make them more buttony I wouldn't object
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22:10:41AlexPEveryone please have a shufti at http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/ReleaseNotes38
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22:19:39Unhelpfulkugel: yes?
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22:34:28paulo_hello
22:34:47kugelUnhelpful: I just looked at convttf. yours and freddyb's version quite differ
22:35:48Unhelpfulkugel: i don't have a problem with abandoning my version as long as the new version can still handle things like actually producing the requested output size ;)
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22:38:49paulo_anyone working on the nanp 6g?
22:38:52paulo_*nano
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22:56:23kugelUnhelpful: You convert differently, (char +8) / 17 instead of bit shift. what's the reason for this
22:56:33kugelI also tried to make it output mono fonts but I didn't manage
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23:19:55linuxstbkugel: Did you see my last question to you?
23:25:16kugelI don't think so
23:31:45linuxstbkugel: ?
23:32:10kugel?
23:33:39linuxstbkugel: May I suggest you scroll back and read it?
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23:37:14***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:43:41kugellinuxstb: fix what?
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23:44:45kugelI thought svn is ok
23:45:29linuxstbkugel: The line in buildzip.pl that says if ($modelname eq "application") isn't true in all cases because sometimes $modelname is quoted. i.e. it equals "\"application\"". I don't know what you intended that to do.
23:46:44linuxstbIt's unquoted for the "*install" targets, but quoted for the others (see tools/root.make). So it looks like it only works by chance, unless I'm completely misunderstanding.
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