#rockbox 2011-03-07

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#rockbox log for 2011-03-07

00:00:12		Quit [Saint] (Disconnected by services)
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00:05:50	wodz	\o/ first custom code run on rk27xx
00:06:05	wodz	turn off backlight :-)
00:06:09	Luca_S	congratulations! \o/
00:06:34	jktcat	when I try to use the rockbox utility I get into the archive and when I try to open the utility itself there's a window that says "open file" at the top and no files are listed
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00:08:06	pixelma	jktcat: you mean you are looking for archived versions of the Rockbox Utility there?
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00:12:29	stuntpenguin007	Anything going on with the ipod nano 5g?
00:14:53	krazykit	anything going on would be on the wiki or relevant forum thread
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00:15:09	jhMikeS	the issue with convttf seems to be in glyph_width that causes numerals to be variable width
00:15:30	jktcat	pixel: maybe I'm just clueless...
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00:18:58	jktcat	OK I'm clearly clueless. I downloaded the utility and then downloaded the source code seperately for my device. How do I get the information onto my ipod?
00:19:43	jktcat	I've looked in the faq and it doesn't show anything that doesn't look straight forward, which my problem doesn't seem to be
00:20:18	gevaerts	jktcat: have you read the installation instructions in the manual?
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00:20:53	wodz	yea, the backlight_off chunk works both loaded into iram and into sdram :-)
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00:21:48	jktcat	i got it figured out, sorry for the hassle
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01:19:26	bk1995	How do i sync music to ipod mini rockbox?
01:19:54	JdGordon1	any way you want
01:20:20	bk1995	itunes would work still?
01:20:35	JdGordon1	if you want to use that crap then sure
01:20:47	JdGordon1	it just comes up as a usb hard disk, put your files wheverer you want
01:21:17	bk1995	lol. doesn't matter what directory? it will see them any where?
01:21:25	JdGordon1	yes
01:21:27	bk1995	lol. doesn't matter what directory? it will see them any where?
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01:21:51	bk1995	sorry, refresh, didn't get responce.
01:27:14	froggyman	bk1995, No matter where your music is on your iPod, rockbox will play them
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01:38:52	webguest29	hi. I have a problem. I have a sandisc sense clip plus, and I can't build voices with Rbutil. Help please?
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02:00
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02:36:54	S_a_i_n_t	JdGordon1: Did you have a play withthat cabbie theme I'd played with?
02:37:13	S_a_i_n_t	I think I might have found a solution for the popup, but...I'm testing it out now.
02:37:52	S_a_i_n_t	(think of how the dialpad is handled while making a call, that little tab thing...I'm thinking of using a similar principle.
02:37:54	S_a_i_n_t	)
02:38:48	S_a_i_n_t	<froggyman> bk1995, No matter where your music is on your iPod, rockbox will play them <−− Not true at all.
02:39:41	S_a_i_n_t	froggyman: As a note, music put inside the .rockbox dir will be neglected by the database by default unless the user specifically removes the database.ignore file.
02:40:29	S_a_i_n_t	(or adds a database.include file to a music dir contained inside the .rockbox dir)
02:43:37	krazykit	S_a_i_n_t, but rockbox can still /play/ them if you navigate to them. it's just not as easy.
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02:44:30	S_a_i_n_t	Well, yes...I guess that does make it technically true.
02:44:37	S_a_i_n_t	A royal PITA, but true.
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02:50:33	JdGordon1	S_a_i_n_t: yes, running it on my phone now
02:50:39		Join Keripo1 [0] (~Keripo@eng289.wireless-resnet.upenn.edu)
02:50:43	JdGordon1	i changed to the non-bold font thouhg
02:50:51	S_a_i_n_t	did you come up with a better solution for the popup?
02:50:55	S_a_i_n_t	(just curious)
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02:52:19	JdGordon1	no, havnt played with it at all
02:52:27	S_a_i_n_t	If not, I'll be adding a tab to the side of the screen to initiate the popup screen, the other solution I think is just making the items in the popup screen's touch areas active on long press, so it doesn't fire automatically if you open the touchscreen and a touch area opens in the viewport underneath your finger.
02:52:35	JdGordon1	i still prefer the whole area to open it up instead of a dedicated soft button
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02:52:56	JdGordon1	yuck to long presses
02:53:03	S_a_i_n_t	JdGordon1: Then the solution is making the touch areas long press.
02:53:14	JdGordon1	no it aint
02:53:20	S_a_i_n_t	otherwise it can jump straight to an item in the popup, and that SUCKS.
02:53:34	JdGordon1	it shouldnt be able to
02:53:43	S_a_i_n_t	that sucks way worse than a soft button to launch the popup.
02:53:51	S_a_i_n_t	well, it can ;)
02:54:01	S_a_i_n_t	You said yourself you experienced it, rasher did also.
02:54:49	S_a_i_n_t	it launches the touch area immediately under your finger when the popup viewport opens if you're unlucky enough to open the popup with an area of the screen that will have a touch area on it when the popup opens.
02:55:29	S_a_i_n_t	so the "fix" is making sure you never are unlucky enough to touch the center of the screen...if the current code isn't broken.
02:55:35	JdGordon1	yeah, but that is because there is a bug in the touch handling
02:55:39	S_a_i_n_t	s/code/method/
02:56:09	S_a_i_n_t	Well, until that's fixed...I don't see the harm inthe default themes avoiding the issue.
02:56:30	JdGordon1	sure
02:56:31	S_a_i_n_t	It's easy enough now to tie the popup to a specific area and limit opening it accidentally.
02:56:35	JdGordon1	so a tab is prob best
02:56:42	*	S_a_i_n_t nods.
02:56:56	JdGordon1	with an animation :D
02:57:20	S_a_i_n_t	nah....the way we do animations, it looks SHIT trying to animate things like this
02:57:33	S_a_i_n_t	(a screen popping in/out) <−− tried it with iLike.
02:58:08	JdGordon1	haha really?
02:58:50	S_a_i_n_t	the animation also needs to run full crcle with the way we do sublines, and if it's initiated again conditionally before the animation cycle finishes you'll catch it halfway through the animation.
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02:59:21	S_a_i_n_t	there no way to do "stop this current animation subline, and restart it, or start this one instead"..it simply has to finish start to end.
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02:59:30	JdGordon1	more reason to add variables
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03:00
03:00:21	S_a_i_n_t	0.1 sec is also far too slow to doo popup/transition effects, and I suspect if the screens updated any faster then there'd be some serious complaints.
03:00:48	S_a_i_n_t	0.1 sec already causes some issues with some people that believe the screen updating so often is detrimental.
03:00:55	S_a_i_n_t	*do
03:01:10	webguest05	Hi, I have a problem. Rb Sansa Clip +, rbutil can't make voice file. Gives error encoding partway through. any help?
03:01:29	S_a_i_n_t	webguest05: What OS, and what is the error?
03:02:08	webguest05	windows, and it says it has an error encoding one of the files. the others encode fine. I have a log file but don't know how to use it
03:02:40		Quit liar (Quit: hallowed are the ori!)
03:04:34	S_a_i_n_t	What file does it say it fails on, and is this whilst building a voice file, or .talk files?
03:04:51	webguest05	Error: could not open input file
03:04:51	webguest05
03:05:03	webguest05	I found the error: could not open input file
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03:06:03	webguest05	LANG_PLAYLIST_INSERT_COUNT.mp3 making voice file
03:10:27	webguest05	Why isn't it finding the file?
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03:15:59	S_a_i_n_t	I could only speculate there, my guess is that it's failing to generate it...but why? No idea.
03:16:14	S_a_i_n_t	bluebrother is the rbutil man.
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03:30:35	S_a_i_n_t	JdGordon1: Could I get you to look at something for me please?
03:31:22	JdGordon1	as long as i wont be sick or need counciling after looking
03:31:49	S_a_i_n_t	I just want to know if I'm linking the touch areas and viewports correctly.
03:32:04	S_a_i_n_t	http://pastebin.com/Lz5uEHpp
03:32:29		Join Zomg_ [0] (~Zomg@174-17-172-40.phnx.qwest.net)
03:32:43	S_a_i_n_t	I want POPUP TAB to launch POPUP MENU
03:33:15	S_a_i_n_t	(I also want the popup tab to dissappear when the popup window is open)
03:33:24	Zomg_	hi, I'm unbricking my sansa clip v2 atm, and I managed to access the hidden part of the NAND.
03:33:35	Zomg_	but I have nfi what image I need to put on it to restore it
03:33:44	Zomg_	anyone wanna help :X
03:33:55	S_a_i_n_t	Zomg_: You need an original image from a working player.
03:35:06	S_a_i_n_t	as in, not just the firmware binary...but this procedure needs to be done on a working player, and the content of the partition dumped.
03:35:31	Zomg_	:\ thought so
03:35:39	Zomg_	noone would happen to have an image?
03:36:43	S_a_i_n_t	IIRC extracting a firmware image to that partition is suffucient to get ROckbox to install, but the original firmware expects there to be some additional magic on that partition.
03:36:59	S_a_i_n_t	(Don't quote that as gospel, but I believe that to be the case)
03:37:00	JdGordon1	S_a_i_n_t: you havnt linked it at all... you need to setup the touchregion with the label i.e %T(e
03:37:07	JdGordon1	and you suck for using 1 letter labels
03:37:33	JdGordon1	%Tl(e,2.0,0,0,20,165,none) <- noooooo!!!
03:37:41	S_a_i_n_t	Oh...Jd, yeah..I used %Tl where I should have %T'd
03:37:52	Zomg_	so nobody has an extra clip v2 they can create an image of for me?
03:37:59	JdGordon1	%T(label, <regular %T options>) then %?Tl(label, timeout)<>
03:38:03	S_a_i_n_t	I also blame your vague CustomWPS/Manual entry :P
03:38:10	JdGordon1	write a better one :)
03:38:27	S_a_i_n_t	Fix the skin context so I can see how it works, and...I just might ;)
03:38:34	JdGordon1	?
03:38:50	S_a_i_n_t	(You know how I want it to work, make it work that way so I can see what I did wrong...please)
03:39:30	JdGordon1	it works how you want it to work now
03:40:27	S_a_i_n_t	No...no no no, I meant, could you edit the pastebin I just posted.
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03:42:38	JdGordon1	http://pastebin.com/index/Lz5uEHpp
03:42:51	JdGordon1	variables of some sort really need to be added i tihnk
03:44:51	JdGordon1	then we'd check the value of the var to see if we should popup instead of time since press
03:46:14	JdGordon1	i.e %?v(a)<%?Tl(toggle, 1)<%vs(a, 1)>> <- if we arnt already set, set if the toggle button was pressed
03:46:45	JdGordon1	then couple that with a check for time since var changed and we have a more global timeout
03:47:12	S_a_i_n_t	Hmmm...wtf?!?
03:47:18	S_a_i_n_t	your pastebin is identical to mine.
03:47:21	JdGordon1	to which part?>
03:47:27	S_a_i_n_t	I think I've got it, though.
03:47:36	S_a_i_n_t	JdGordon1: all of it.
03:47:56	S_a_i_n_t	Nothing was changed at all.
03:48:47	JdGordon1	http://pastebin.com/w0tTC0y5
03:49:34	S_a_i_n_t	Aha...I did have it correct in my head the second time, thanksyou for confirming that.
03:49:52	S_a_i_n_t	I'm not a fan of doubting myself, especially with new syntax I'm unfamiliar with.
03:51:19	Zomg_	:o apparently I was bridging it wrong?
03:51:35	Zomg_	when I bridged it I saw the whole 3.64GB
03:51:50	Zomg_	not the 979mb nand
03:51:53	S_a_i_n_t	btw...I'll use more than one letter identifiers when I make a theme with 104+ viewports ;)
03:52:36	S_a_i_n_t	Zomg_: apparently, yes...I don't understand though, if you have access to the whole drive, why are you trying to access the recovery partition?
03:53:07	Zomg_	I can't access the whole drive unless I do the bridge thing
03:53:28	Zomg_	when I plug it in w/o bridging it fdisk doesn't show it
03:53:44	Zomg_	if I bridge the pins in the photo it shows the whole disk
03:54:45	JdGordon1	S_a_i_n_t: http://pastebin.com/nvudiDxv
03:55:10	Zomg_	where it says "A.19.09.01" in the photo mine says "b.20.09.0.1" so I probably have the wrong pins
03:56:24	S_a_i_n_t	JdGordon1: %vt I could use...
03:56:45	S_a_i_n_t	the others don't strike me as useful immediately, but I suspect that's the right brain talking.
03:56:59	JdGordon1	%vt cant be used without the others :)
03:57:56	JdGordon1	then we should be able to make the whole area pressable to get the popup shown and not have it cause problems
03:58:23	JdGordon1	touchregiogns arent supposed to be triggerable unless the viewport was activated already when the press happened
04:00
04:05:54	S_a_i_n_t	Yes, I believe that is the case as well.
04:06:03	S_a_i_n_t	But the button repeats are far too fast.
04:06:42	S_a_i_n_t	so the screen is pressed, and the popup opens, and the touch area under your finger fires all in the blink of an eye.
04:06:54	S_a_i_n_t	rasher did say he say the popup very briefly.
04:07:11	S_a_i_n_t	so, it works as expected..just at lightning speed.
04:07:48	JdGordon1	ah, im trying with your theme now and cant get the browse button to press unless i release after it pops up
04:07:51	JdGordon1	so no, that is working
04:08:09	JdGordon1	the bug i was seeing in my playing was the popup would show after my repeat mode popup went away
04:08:46	S_a_i_n_t	Hmmm...werid. rasher was finding a way to drill down into the context menu just by slightly touching the screen.
04:09:03	S_a_i_n_t	(at least, that's how he described it, or the impression I got)
04:09:44	S_a_i_n_t	JdGordon1: Do you want to play with the pop tab version I've just made? I just finished a tab graphic.
04:11:03	JdGordon1	put up a screenshot? im at work so limited play time
04:11:31	S_a_i_n_t	Hmmm, no way to make one without switching to linux....it can wait ;)
04:12:08	*	JdGordon1 needs to check out FS #11084
04:12:21	JdGordon1	thats wps variables also
04:12:38	S_a_i_n_t	It's difficult using the theme editor when it can't parse a good 10% of the syntax your theme is using ;)
04:12:55	JdGordon1	:/
04:13:13	S_a_i_n_t	still a valuable too though, but I have to make weird hacks in the code so I can see what it will look like, then go back and fix the syntax so rb won't choke on it.
04:13:20	S_a_i_n_t	*tool
04:14:03	S_a_i_n_t	I have looked at the theme editor, and adding the new tags to it...and, I very quickly decided "fuck that".
04:14:34	JdGordon1	the theme editor really should be using good OO prinicples...
04:14:40	JdGordon1	i.e each tag should be a class
04:14:47	Zomg_	holy crap yay
04:14:51	Zomg_	the lcd screen is back on now
04:15:00	Zomg_	only when I plug it into the pc now
04:15:03	JdGordon1	tag.get_text() tag.draw() etc
04:15:12	Zomg_	gave me a lil message that said corrupted fat
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05:03:49	[Saint]	JdGordon1: I am adding a volume slider popup now also.
05:03:49	[Saint]	Just doing the graphic for the volume slider.
05:09:26	JdGordon1	sweet
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05:10:04	[Saint]	basically ripping off the way the OF's UI does it...but "meh" ;)
05:11:02	[Saint]	I didn't think about it until just now, the whole yellow bar slider thing...but, I guess it's consistent. And Rockbox had the yellow/black colour scheme first ;p
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05:23:50	[Saint]	JdGordon1: A slider image needs to be %xl'd?
05:24:18	[Saint]	nevermind...of course it does.
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05:42:08	[Saint]	JdGordon1: Is touching the volume icon/display in the display area/bottom of the .wps sane to launch the volume popup?
05:42:28	[Saint]	Or should I use a tab the same as the other popup, but on the opposite side of the screen?
05:42:44	[Saint]	(that would make the theme symmetrical)
05:42:49	JdGordon1	thats what i'd expect
05:42:51	JdGordon1	(the first)
05:43:28	[Saint]	Ok, I will clean up the dummy images I made, make actual images, and upload what I have for you to play with when you can.
05:45:47	[Saint]	I was thinking if I chose to use the second option, and have two tabs for each popup, on opposite sides of the sceen for symmetry I could label the browser/quickscreen/context menu popup's launcher tab with the RB clef, and the volume popup's launcher tab with an obvious volume icon...but I shall see how well the current way I have it works for you.
05:48:00	*	JdGordon1 is not particularly a fan of the tab ideas
05:48:06	JdGordon1	mostly because people would expect an animation
05:56:19	[Saint]	Oh, I'm also doing a matching .sbs also...so this theme is really coming along now.
05:59:26	JdGordon1	playback controls popping up over the wps area in the sbs would be nice
05:59:44		Quit tchan (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4)
05:59:49	*	JdGordon1 might do some coding tonight to make things work betterter
06:00
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06:23:05	Zomg_	cmus or mpd?
06:29:16	[Saint]	JdGordon1: This .sbs has all the playback controls...it just needs them to be able to be used ;)
06:30:04	JdGordon1	it didnt have a sbs when you linked me before
06:30:18	*	JdGordon1 is still after a url of a 480x800 build with the line height patch
06:30:41		Quit LambdaCalculus37 (Quit: bedtime)
06:31:46	[Saint]	JdGordon1: Nope, I'm building the .sbs as we speak, that's why it wasn't included when it was linked last.
06:32:17	[Saint]	I've pretty much changed/cleaned up everything since yesterday, and added a lot of stuff. I think you'll like it a lot the next time you play with it.
06:34:15	[Saint]	the .sbs and .wps now share a backdrop...which reduces the size of the theme considerably, I've tried to re-use all the images I can to save space, as it's not exactly a complex theme but it's headed towards the 3MB mark.
06:34:39	JdGordon1	yeah, we need png or jpg skin images
06:35:00	[Saint]	JdGordon1: What lines in the .wps did you unbold? SO I can sync your changes and add the additional userfont.
06:35:20	JdGordon1	all, i loaded the nonbold font in settings
06:35:24	JdGordon1	i dont like bold
06:35:31	[Saint]	Oh, right...I see.
06:35:41	JdGordon1	though on the wps I would like some of it bold
06:35:50	JdGordon1	or different font completly
06:36:06	[Saint]	We'll talk about that later when you're at home and can play a bit more.
06:36:24	[Saint]	I'll use this time to make my code readable, and cleanup the images I just made.
06:38:23	JdGordon1	the first part is a waste of time :p
06:38:29	JdGordon1	its impossible to make it readable
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07:08:31	DarthCaitSith	I am having a bit of a problem, installed rockbox no prob, now i can't mount my device (sansa clip+)
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07:09:14	DarthCaitSith	not even showing up in lsusb
07:19:51	Zomg_	try sudo fdisk -l
07:20:05	Zomg_	see if your device shows up there
07:20:25	DarthCaitSith	nope
07:21:55	Zomg_	hmm
07:22:05	Zomg_	the clip turns on though right
07:22:08	Zomg_	...
07:22:58	DarthCaitSith	yeah boots in to rockbox fine
07:23:10	DarthCaitSith	i booted back in to the sansa os and it connects fine
07:23:57	Zomg_	yeah thats the case on my fuze as well
07:24:19	Zomg_	doesn't work in rockbox mode but the regular os works fine
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07:38:38	homielowe	Hello. I've recently come across a firmware file for the hifiman-801 mp3 player (see http://www.head-direct.com/product_detail.php?p=72). It plays various formats (FLAC, WMA Lossless, WAV, APE, AAC, OGG, and MP3) and I'm guessing the company might have used some open-source codecs.
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07:41:03	homielowe	I've found a link to the firmware file but I'm having difficulty decompiling it (down.head-direct.com/HM-801-0.19beta.rar)
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07:45:15	JdGordon1	why do you tinhk they use OSS codecs?
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07:51:02	homielowe	JdGordon1: That's more a wild guess with no proof ;) I'm downloading rockbox source to run this firmware file through the decompiler to see if anything interesting comes up.
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08:09:21	Buschel	JdGordon1: is this a known issue? -> "%?iy<[%iy]>" works, "%?iy<(%iy)>" does not. the closing bracket ')' is the problem
08:09:46	JdGordon1	[] aren't special chars, () are
08:10:02	JdGordon1	you need to escape them.. i.e %( and %)
08:10:07	Buschel	ouch
08:10:19	Buschel	will do :)
08:10:50	JdGordon1	its probably too hard to figure out if ) is closing a tag or not so always require it escpaed
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08:37:36	[Saint]	Hmmmm...interesting that the leading bracket didn't cause a problem also.
08:38:14	[Saint]	There was no tag prepending it, so it should have known it needed to be escaped and barfed.
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08:43:36	JdGordon1	na
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08:43:52	JdGordon1	the opening is easier to know if its a parse error or an acceptable char
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09:03:07	[Saint]	wow....pictureflow really needs to be able to use a .sbs
09:03:27	[Saint]	and, the .sbs really needs to be able to control playback.
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09:04:01	[Saint]	it took me an age to figure out it switches to grid mode.
09:05:32	[Saint]	and although gridmode is doccumented, it does kinda seem like a random guessing game when you're not sure if you actually are in grid mode or not. Some form of splash to let you know would be better than thrusting it upon the user and leaving them to figure out what's absolute and what's grid mode.
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09:53:57	[Saint]	JdGordon1: Anyone else with a 480x800 RaaA target that wants to test/play with a new attempt at a default theme: My current progress is here −−-> http://www.datafilehost.com/download-0c11a90f.html
09:55:06	[Saint]	Um... kugel, you might be interested in that also.
09:56:13	[Saint]	(It's still not what I'd consider "finished", but I don't want to go too many steps ahead of myself in case I need to undo something because someone thinks it's a crap idea.
09:56:16	[Saint]	)
09:57:03	Zagor	can you make some screenshots for those of us too lazy to install it?
10:00
10:01:12	[Saint]	I actually can't funnily enough...I don't have a target of that size myself, nor the SDL app...and the themeeditor displays about 20% of it incorrectly as the skin syntax is newer than the editor knows how to understand.
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10:09:21	*	JdGordon1 can do a screenshot soonish
10:17:26	[Saint]	Let me know what you think.
10:18:05	JdGordon1	I think I'm going to get violent if i keep having to edit autoconf.h to use the sdl app with different screen sizes
10:18:51	JdGordon1	I also tihnk the sdl app is a PITA re the /.rockbox relocation
10:23:24	JdGordon1	[Saint]: you are insane... not only for reasons you think.... reusing label id's for images/buttons/viewports! :/
10:24:22	[Saint]	gah, I fail to see one letter identifiers as "bad".
10:24:43	*	Zagor reboots the server
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10:30:25	[Saint]	It could be on the right I guess...I'm not sure why it looks like it should be, though.
10:31:03	[Saint]	I was going to have two of them, opposite each other, one for volume one for the popup menu thingy.
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10:32:02	[Saint]	NFI why the volume popup wouldn't be working, though.
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10:43:05	[Saint]	http://pastebin.com/etkqfd28 <−− JdGordon1
10:45:36	[Saint]	If you could sync your changes with that, it'd be brilliant. This fixes (or should) the oversight with the popup tab image.
10:46:25	JdGordon1	yep, done
10:47:15	JdGordon1	volume looks like the region isnt wide enough
10:47:54	[Saint]	Hmmm? Oh, right...can the slider not reach the ends correctly/gets cut off?
10:49:10	[Saint]	gah...do you have a new link for your edits? pastebin's gone weird again.
10:51:18	JdGordon1	slider doesnt work at all.. the region to activate the popup is only the left edge of the vol button
10:51:59	JdGordon1	how wide are the images?
10:52:19	JdGordon1	the vol icon i mean
10:53:02	JdGordon1	yeah, its 20 instead of 88
10:54:27	[Saint]	make it "%T(f,0,0,88,60,none)"
10:54:41	JdGordon1	yeah figured that :)
10:54:54	JdGordon1	I'm going to the skin vars now i tihnk instead of more playing
10:55:05	[Saint]	no idea how I cocked that up...c/p'ing touch areas I think.
10:55:25	JdGordon1	also, you know the timeouts dont require .0 yeah?
10:55:28	JdGordon1	2 == 2.0
10:55:34	JdGordon1	== 2s
10:55:49	[Saint]	but...is everything working as good as can be expected?
10:55:59	[Saint]	and yes, old habits, blah blah ;)
10:58:24	[Saint]	JdGordon1: I you have any more changes, whack up a new pastebin. I'd like to know we're working from the same page.
10:58:27	JdGordon1	the vol slider doesnt work
10:58:51	[Saint]	Hmmm...it's the first time I have tried using a slider.
10:58:52	JdGordon1	i havnt done any changes other than the %Tl lines and that volume one
10:58:57	JdGordon1	whack it on git :)
11:00
11:00:29	[Saint]	Looks good...I wish I knew why the volume popup isn't working.
11:00:39	[Saint]	Is it the popup not working, or just the slider?
11:01:40	JdGordon1	the slider works but doesnt get redrawn... investigating
11:02:13	JdGordon1	you want is as a slider type?
11:02:49	[Saint]	yes, the slider image I kinda stole from the Android OF...to add a degree a familiarity.
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11:03:38	JdGordon1	it works if i remove the %xd(E) line
11:04:21	[Saint]	ah...shit, and that's the popup backdrop, so...we kinda need that.
11:05:59		Nick Kuitsi- is now known as Kuitsi (~Kuitsi@a88-113-118-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
11:06:10	JdGordon1	doesnt the slider have a backdrop param?
11:07:09	[Saint]	possibly, but %xd(E) isn't just the backdrop for the slider...it's the whole volume popup.
11:07:25	JdGordon1	yeah, I know, but it could still work
11:08:17	Llorean	[Saint]: I'm not too happy with the use of Q and C for the quick screen and context menus. I'm not sure what I'd use exactly, but if it were to be a default theme, I'd suggest spending some time trying really hard to get icons that represent it without depending on language-specific terms.
11:08:32	Llorean	Is there a button to get back to the main menu somewhere, or just filetree, quickscree, and context menu?
11:08:40	[Saint]	Ummm...the default theme already uses that.
11:08:54	[Saint]	so, your time to be unhappy about it is long passed.
11:09:18	Llorean	Well then, I'm not happy about the current default theme either.
11:09:26	Llorean	It's something to be fixed.
11:09:38	Llorean	That would make yours more of an improvement if it fixed them.
11:10:01	[Saint]	And yes, there's a HW button that always goes to the main menu.
11:10:05	Llorean	As it stands, it's not been upgraded to unstable or supported yet, so there's plenty of time to be upset about it, and or seek to have it fixed anyway
11:10:12	JdGordon1	the icons suck yes, but that is something which needs alternative optinos
11:10:18	[Saint]	tablets need another solution, though
11:10:23	JdGordon1	I absolutly hate the lack of "menu" action on the wps
11:10:28	JdGordon1	and "wps" action on the sbs
11:10:41	Llorean	JdGordon1: I'd agree. I feel like it should be 100% touch, if possible.
11:11:03	Llorean	The hardware buttons are nice, but if it's 100% touch it's really easy to port to future touch targets that may not have the same hardware button features.
11:11:36	[Saint]	well...my personal theme adds a touch area to the titlebar that goes to the menu, or back to the wps...but that's not exactly intuitive so I'm told.
11:12:35	[Saint]	a touch region that does exactly the same as the HW menu key
11:12:47	JdGordon1	not in the theme im using?
11:12:58	[Saint]	Nope, you said it was a crap idea ;)
11:13:21	JdGordon1	i very much doubt that
11:13:29	[Saint]	actually..it was there, but I took it out after you saying that.
11:13:30	pixelma	JdGordon1, [Saint]: can these touch area identifiers share be shared between two areas (e.g. touch areas on the same spot, one for long and the other for a short press)? Alternatively I'd like a better solution for this short and long press areas at the same spot
11:13:58	Llorean	Something to indicate that's what it does, maybe a scaled down, color matched version of the image behind the Q/C buttons, at one end of the bar or the other.
11:14:02	[Saint]	pixelma: what's wrong with the way it is now?
11:14:17	[Saint]	long and short presses coexist perfectly well do they not?
11:14:20	pixelma	I need two same sized areas?
11:14:29		Quit Judas_PhD (Quit: This is a quitting message)
11:14:44	JdGordon1	pixelma: no, region labels arent shared, although I tinhk I need to fix that so they can be
11:15:11	JdGordon1	and I dont tihnk %T(x,y,w,h, action, &long_action) is going to work too well
11:15:23	pixelma	that makes two identical definitions just one with action and the other with &action
11:16:01	[Saint]	and?
11:16:15	[Saint]	Sorry, I just don;t see why that's "wrong/bad"
11:16:35	pixelma	I find that unintuitive at best
11:16:36	[Saint]	I don't mean to sound how that may have done.
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11:17:42	[Saint]	if it were the way you want...you couldn't do a seperate condition for long and short presses in the same touch area.
11:17:50	[Saint]	*conditions.
11:17:52	pixelma	and with the above mentioned identifier problem, I would now need two %?Tl too
11:18:57	pixelma	two separate conditions? I don't have an idea what those could be (used for)
11:20:32	[Saint]	well, if you wanted long and short presses to fire different viewports/images depending on playback state/whatever...even with your way you'd need to define them twice.
11:20:45		Quit sideral (Quit: Leaving.)
11:21:39	[Saint]	if both long and short actions were in the one %Tl line, the following condition would just fire them both, if you didn't want that, you'd need two defines anyway.
11:21:58	JdGordon1	yes
11:22:07	JdGordon1	but that doesnt mean allowing both in the one line would be bad
11:22:16	JdGordon1	I tihnk the %T tag is complicated enough already
11:22:24	[Saint]	the current method may not be 'intuitive", but it works, and is more flexible in the long run.
11:25:32	[Saint]	JdGordon1: weren't you thinking of a "force this VP to redraw when activated" tag?
11:25:53	[Saint]	(that would fix the issue with the text being blacked out behind the popup after it closes)
11:26:10	[Saint]	...which is a nasty bug IMO.
11:26:31	JdGordon1	[Saint]: viewports always fully redraw when activated
11:26:54	[Saint]	hmmm...so, what is causing the issue you described?
11:27:38	JdGordon1	your viewport display logic probably
11:27:57	[Saint]	errr....
11:28:38	JdGordon1	%?C<%Vd(c)%Vd(d)\|%Vd(a)%Vd(b)> <- that really needs to check if either popup should be enabled
11:29:04	JdGordon1	which is why i need to get skin vars going :p
11:29:17	Bagder	skin wars!
11:29:21	Bagder	=)
11:30:04	[Saint]	what do you mean by "if it should be anabled"?
11:30:12	[Saint]	I can check if it is or it isn't.
11:30:42	[Saint]	oh...wait. No I can't.
11:30:58	JdGordon1	right
11:31:15	JdGordon1	what I think is happening is both that next track AND the popyup viewports are being drawn
11:31:19	JdGordon1	and you are lucky with ordering
11:31:43	JdGordon1	with variables you'd be able to check at the start of the skin "do i want to display the popup or something else?"
11:31:54	[Saint]	oh, yes indeed...that is what's happening.
11:31:55	JdGordon1	so i need some skin codes...
11:31:59	[Saint]	I didn't think of that at all.
11:32:58	JdGordon1	we need tags for "check var value" "set var value" and possibly "increment var" and "decrement var"
11:33:02	JdGordon1	suggestions?
11:33:33	[Saint]	It used to work, and I could check for it with %Tl (the way it used to work, without a specific identifier) because if %Tl was true, the viewport was being displayed...but, that's not the case anymore.
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11:34:24	[Saint]	SO I could switch between the text and popup VPs easily, now I just rudely draw the popup overtop...and it "just works".
11:34:31	[Saint]	*So
11:34:58	[Saint]	Yes, yes...I see the fail there now.
11:35:10	JdGordon1	%vs(label, value) %?vv(label)<>, %vi(label,[max]), %vd(label, [min]) ?
11:35:15	JdGordon1	or something else?
11:35:32	JdGordon1	or do i roll the last 2 into the first one?
11:35:47	[Saint]	possibly, yes.
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11:39:25	JdGordon1	FS #11084 adds a touch action to change the value. I wonder if i should do that also
11:39:29	JdGordon1	that would even simplify things
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11:40:06	JdGordon1	no need to check for presses, just have the press increment the var and have another line set it back to 0 later
11:40:24	JdGordon1	oh, i need the label for "var last changed timeout"
11:43:12	JdGordon1	anyone?
11:43:22	JdGordon1	no stupid answers...
11:43:59	[Saint]	I suck at coming up with new tags.
11:44:29	[Saint]	I fail to see the correlation between dome of the current tags and their use, so..does it matter? ;)
11:44:39	JdGordon1	vs,vv,vl is going to be it unless i get a better option
11:44:54	[Saint]	sounds like a winner then.
11:46:20	JdGordon1	is %Vl and %vl too simlar though?
11:47:05	[Saint]	possibly, but it's bound to happen eventually...there's only so many tags with a two letter system.
11:50:01	JdGordon1	ok, the "set value" tag...any suggestions how to do "set to 1" and "increment by 1 and reset at 9"?
11:50:29	JdGordon1	%vs(label, set\|inc\|dec, 1, [max]) ?
11:51:06	JdGordon1	and optionally allow simply %vs(label, 1) == %vs(label, set, 1)
11:51:48	[Saint]	I'm still not entirely sure what this is used for.
11:53:23	JdGordon1	right now the only way you can enable the popup and keep it open is by checking a buynch of touch region popups
11:54:21	JdGordon1	what this would allow is you enable the popup if some variable is >0, all those regions would set that variable to >0
11:55:24	JdGordon1	then in that viewport you would explicitly set that var to 0 if nothing changed it for X seconds
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11:56:35	JdGordon1	you could (possibly) have the upcoming tracks display show only one track but allow the user to press a button to show the "next" one (by increasng the offset)
11:56:49	JdGordon1	with another action to start playing that track!
11:56:55	JdGordon1	thing of the possibilities!
11:59:14	[Saint]	Well, let me know if/when you have more of a play with those popups and get them behaving with the variable thing you've dreamed up so I can see it in action.
11:59:29	JdGordon1	this shouldnt take long to code
11:59:39	[Saint]	I can't really imaging the syntax or what to do with it, until it's done.
12:00
12:02:42	[Saint]	JdGordon1: http://pastebin.com/34nxY3Hx <−− updated, added "menu" action to titlebar, image to make that obvious to come at a later stage.
12:03:12	[Saint]	drop anything you play with there.
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12:05:45	sideral	Hi JdGordon, I remember you had a strong opinion on whether the MP3 gap killer should be configurable or always-on (but I don't remember why). If that's the case, could you please chime in to FS #11891? I'd like to work towards adopting that feature...
12:06:12	JdGordon1	I dont remember having an opinion :)
12:06:20	sideral	Ah that's good! :)
12:06:20	JdGordon1	I'm very good at coming up with one quickly though
12:06:25	JdGordon1	and by goarge I stand by it!
12:06:26	sideral	Dang
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12:10:09	n1s	I think it would be better to do it in a generic way but i'm not up for one of the super long discussions so feel free to ignore
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12:14:13	JdGordon	sideral: is this just mp3 gap killing or any codec?
12:14:33	JdGordon	it seems to me it should be in the dsp and compleyl codec agnostic
12:14:38	sideral	JdGordon: Just MP3, to address the specific deficiency MP3 has
12:14:40	Llorean	MP3 only.
12:14:51	Llorean	I thought it should be codec agnostic well, but there are reasons that doesn't make much sense.
12:15:12	Llorean	Knowledge of track boundaries, and the fact that it relates to deficiencies in the codec itself (as sideral mentioned)
12:15:19	sideral	a generic gap killer would be a separate feature in my view. I'd welcome a specific fix for "misencoded" mp3s (files w/o the needed LAME tags)
12:15:31	JdGordon	are we talking mid track or just end/beginig of track?
12:15:31	Llorean	It can also be more "intelligent" if you're aware of MP3 frames, since it can check for whole frames of silence, etc.
12:15:41	Llorean	Beginning/end
12:16:50	[Saint]	I'd like to see it go in, personally. But, my opinion hardly means much ;p
12:17:00	JdGordon	as long as it doesnt turn into a mid track silence removal I dont really see any reason against it always being on
12:17:09	JdGordon	or on by default anyway
12:17:51	Llorean	I'm for it as long as its settings lean toward "occasionally accidentally leave unintentional silence in" rather than "occasionally accidentally delete intentional silence"
12:18:16	sideral	JdGordon: The major reason for making it configurable, cited by gevaerts, was that he wants to avoid losing any significant audio, but could live with some additional gap
12:18:32	sideral	Basically a purist view, which I respect
12:19:04	sideral	JdGordon: You seemed to strongly advocate making it nonconfigurable, always-on
12:19:49	JdGordon	suuuure i was :p
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12:19:59	Llorean	I think a general "intelligent gap removal option" that turns on any codec specific additions we come up with for improved gapless (mightn't a similar thing be needed for AAC too?) that doesn't get configured, just toggled, makes sense.
12:20:46	sideral	JdGordon: I'm glad we've convinced you :)
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12:23:46	linuxstb	sideral: I have no problem with the feature, but the naming of it needs to be thought about. Saying "gap removal" or "silence detection" implies to me that it's removing silence or gaps that _should_ be there. This is very different to that, and something like "Guess mp3 padding" is more accurate.
12:24:04	sideral	Llorean: If we ever implement this for another codec, in a codec-specific way, the settings probably could be combined then.
12:24:19	Ebonrook	Hello all, I saw on the forums that LambdaCalculus379 suggested coming on here about testing a build for the 120g 6th Gen Classic, and I wondered what that entailed?
12:24:20	Llorean	sideral: I'd be for giving it a generic name in advance, rather than renaming it later.
12:24:35	sideral	linuxstb: I think "gapless playback" has a pretty fixed meaning, hasn't it?
12:24:44	Llorean	Rather than "MP3 gap correction" just "Gap correction" for example
12:25:01	linuxstb	sideral: Your patch says "MP3 gap skip"
12:25:05	Llorean	Or even "Attempt gap correction" "yes/no"
12:25:10	JdGordon	If im understanding this right I see no reason it needs to be configurable... we advertise providing gapless playback whenever possible anyway
12:25:15	*	Llorean likes "attempt" because it implies possible inaccuracy.
12:25:22	sideral	linuxstb: It's not my patch, I'm just interested in it :)
12:25:45	sideral	linuxstb: Yeah, I agree that "gap skip" is not perfect
12:25:52	linuxstb	sideral: If you're wanting to commit it, then it becomes yours ;)
12:26:02	gevaerts	JdGordon: you mean you're in favour of unconditionally dropping audio data that should be there?
12:26:47	*	Llorean definitely isn't for it unconditionally.
12:26:57	*	gevaerts doesn't see how people can think doing this unconditionally is even worth considering
12:27:20	sideral	Llorean, linuxstb: Yeah, good ideas. I'll think about the wording some more.
12:27:26	linuxstb	Llorean: How about referring to what is being removed as "padding", rather than "gap" ? That (to me at least) makes it clearer that something extra is being removed that shouldn't be there.
12:27:48	linuxstb	"gap" could still be interpreted as the silence which is part of the track.
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12:28:05	Llorean	linuxstb: "Attempt codec gap removal" is a bit long, but might get it across well?
12:28:36	JdGordon	gevaerts: at the beggingn and end of the track I think the chance of a false possitive is pretty small if only the last/first frame is checked
12:28:41	linuxstb	I would still make it specific to mp3 - I can't think of any other codecs where it's needed (or likely to be implemented)
12:28:42	Llorean	It might be worth throwing out "what could we name it" to the mailing list for more responses.
12:28:47	Ebonrook	Are we talking about actually trying to remove silence from the end of an mp3 track, or removing the loading gap between two mp3s?
12:28:56	JdGordon	if there is 10s worth of silent frames then obviously it is meant to be there
12:29:09	linuxstb	Ebonrook: The padding added by the encoder at start and end.
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12:29:37	Llorean	linuxstb: AAC has LAME-like tags for gap correction. I'm not an expert, but it suggests to me a similar fix might be appropriate there, for those without the tags.
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12:29:56	Ebonrook	I can understand wanting to get rid of that, but perhaps it shouldn't be unconditional? After all some people may prefer to leave it be.
12:30:10	Llorean	Ebonrook: That's several of ours' position.
12:30:54	gevaerts	Ebonrook: the problem is not that people want the gaps that were added by the encoder. The problem is that it's impossible to see if the gap was added by the encoder or part of the actual audio
12:30:56	Llorean	linuxstb: I'm curious if it applies to MP2/1 as well
12:31:41	Llorean	linuxstb: If it's really something that will only ever be MP3, I'm all for making it "attempt MP3 gap correction" or "attempt MP3 padding removal" or whatever.
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12:32:07	Ebonrook	gevaerts: Wouldn't the encoder leave some sort of signature on the file telling us if it has or not?
12:32:19	gevaerts	Ebonrook: some do, and those are handled
12:32:52	Llorean	Ebonrook: This is for "bad" encoders (or old ones) that don't for whatever reason
12:32:54	gevaerts	JdGordon: Why is it important how many false positives there are? We pride ourselves on correct audio playback, so even if only one single track has actual audio dropped, that's a bug
12:33:10	sideral	Ebonrook: The problem is that there are lots of MP3s that don't have the metadata. I have numerous MP3s that I commercially purchased and that don't have them
12:33:51	JdGordon	gevaerts: because we talk about haveing too many settings/features often and this really seems like one which will almost never be disabled
12:34:16	JdGordon	also, wouldnt you only want the gap if the next track in the album is the next track in the playlist?
12:34:20	sideral	JdGordon: For me it's enough that purists like gevaerts want to disable it.
12:34:26	JdGordon	if there is supposed to be gaps
12:34:30	Ebonrook	Ah I see, I take it for granted just re-encoding them wouldn't be an option.
12:34:50	Llorean	JdGordon: It's also one that's strictly speaking unnecessary (as it's not really our business trying to correct poorly encoded files automatically) so we could also save the setting by leaving it out and telling people "use better encoders if you don't want problems"
12:34:52	sideral	Ebonrook: exactly
12:35:03	Llorean	I'm not saying we should do that, just that the same logic of "fewer settings" applies both ways here
12:35:52	Torne	yeah, i don't think having a setting is sensible.
12:35:53	JdGordon	sideral: does it check more than just the first/last frame?
12:36:05	Torne	if it's not okay to have it on all the time then don't have it on
12:36:10	Torne	er, then don't have it at all
12:36:20	Torne	and tell people to complain at whoever encoded the track wrong
12:36:30	sideral	sideral: No, only those frames are affected
12:36:36	Ebonrook	If it's going to be a setting most people never turn on, it might not be worth it?
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12:37:08	sideral	Torne: Some people don't have the option
12:37:08	JdGordon	sideral: if that was to me then i really cant see how you could get a flase positive except for a really bad encoder
12:37:15	Torne	sideral: they have the option of complaining
12:37:21	Torne	which is what I said. :)
12:37:27	pixelma	Torne: I don't want it to remove audible and wanted (by the author gaps), those may be longer than one frame though
12:37:32	Llorean	Do we have sample tracks somewhere that show an audible gap that this removes?
12:37:36	JdGordon	if the source has 5s of silence then more than just the last frame will be silent
12:38:08	pixelma	if it really only cares about the first or last frame then maybe ok
12:38:11	Torne	Llorean: you can make them yourself trivially, rip a CD that's gapless then encode all thet racks seperately with the option that tells LAME not to emit its extra tag
12:38:26	sideral	JdGordon: Looking at that old chat log again, it appears it wasn't actually you who was opposed to having a config option :)
12:38:36	Llorean	Torne: I don't have a CD that's gapless. :)
12:38:56	Llorean	Most of the music I listen to tends to have distinct tracks with gaps.
12:38:57	Torne	look for something with "DJ" at the start ;)
12:39:18	Ebonrook	I have to go in a sec, but before I do just to re-ask; the forum sent me here to ask about 6th Gen build testing, wondered if there was an alpha/beta I can try out?
12:39:27	Llorean	Actually, I might have Dark Side of the Moon somewhere packed away
12:40:03	Torne	i think you'll notice it on that, but it's easier with a continuous mix with a beat ;)
12:40:54	pondlife	Maybe "silence removal" should be a crossfade feature - at PCM, rather than MP3... you expect that to muck up the timing
12:40:54	Llorean	I'm just curious how significant of a fix this is.
12:40:54	sideral	JdGordon: The problem is that you need a cut-off sample value to classify samples into silence vs nonsilence; you don't want to cut a complete frame unconditionally. And having a cutoff means that there can be false positives.
12:41:01	Llorean	Is it "gone" or just "less bad"?
12:41:38	Llorean	sideral: Didn't Saratoga suggest we could pick a cutoff value that would treat only audio that would be played back as silence anyway, as silence?
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12:42:26	sideral	Llorean: The gap on misencoded tracks will be gone most of the time (unless the encoder is _really_ stupid). But depending on the cut-off amplitude, it could cut a bit too much. I haven't experienced that problem yet, though
12:42:34	Llorean	Ebonrook: What's available should be in SVN I think
12:43:02	JdGordon	sideral: you have to dump the whole frame?
12:43:14	*	JdGordon assumed this silence wouild be encoded as 0's
12:43:22	pixelma	Llorean: I semi-recently reencoded and my CD rips and since the MAS can't do lame tag gapless rechecked for gaps - and I found it happens more often than I thought it would that an album has some tracks gapless even if it's just one or two. It's not always very obvious but audible
12:43:26	Ebonrook	Llorean: SVN? Sorry...
12:43:29	sideral	pondlife: That would be a separate feature. I don't want all silence removed, just the one added by the buggy MP3 endocing/decoding process
12:43:35	Llorean	Ebonrook: Where the source code is kept
12:44:02	sideral	JdGordon: No, the patch only dumps the silence
12:44:03	pondlife	sideral: OK. I'd quite like a general silence removal feature - along with crossfade...
12:44:47	sideral	JdGordon: that is, the samples classified as silence
12:45:05	JdGordon	and they arent just 0's?
12:45:24	sideral	Llorean: I don't quite follow :(
12:45:49	sideral	JdGordon: No, unfortunately. It can be any waveform coming out of the decoder
12:46:08	sideral	JdGordon: The patch uses a fixed amplitude as the cut-off point
12:46:35	JdGordon	ok, now I'm starting to see gevaerts' point
12:46:45	JdGordon	configurable and default to on then
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12:47:05	Llorean	sideral: My understanding was that the fixed-amplitude cutoff point could be "what Rockbox plays back as silence anyway because of the precision available in the playback engine"
12:47:33	sideral	JdGordon: Problem is, I just convinced the wrong person: it was saratoga who objected to making it configurable :)
12:47:46	JdGordon	hehe
12:48:44	Llorean	JdGordon: That's why I felt it should be "err on the side of not removing things" - basically make the fixed amplitude as low as possible while still removing most silence.
12:48:46	pixelma	does it really cut away all silence no matter where in the track?
12:48:48	Llorean	sideral: I may have misunderstood him though
12:48:56	Llorean	pixelma: No. Only beginning and end frames.
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12:49:12	Llorean	sideral: Was it ever added to check the next/prev frame for silence?
12:49:26	Llorean	As a precaution for guessing when it's intentional?
12:49:47	JdGordon	but heres the thing... if the 2nd or 2nd last isnt silent then it should be obvious that the silence isnt supposed to be there
12:50:01	JdGordon	so in that case the threshhold should be pretty high and no point configuring it
12:50:04	Llorean	JdGordon: No, that's when it's obvious that the silence is supposed to be there.
12:50:23	Llorean	If the 2nd frame, or the 2nd from last, is silent, that means that the track has intentional silence at the beginning/end
12:50:32	JdGordon	thats what i said, inverted
12:50:37	Llorean	Oh, sorry
12:50:40	Llorean	I read "is silent"
12:50:57	JdGordon	and even if the 2nd last frame was "silent" then removing one frame isnt noticable
12:50:59	Llorean	Yeah, basically, you can use the next-inward frames as a safety net.
12:51:06	JdGordon	0.001s out of 5s silence?
12:51:06	sideral	Llorean: No, the patch as of now doesn't look into the neighboring frames
12:51:56	sideral	JdGordon: Agree about checking neighboring frames
12:52:13	JdGordon	would that be expensive?
12:52:13	Llorean	Is there some reason not to check neighboring frames?
12:52:18	JdGordon	I cant imagine it woudl
12:52:33	sideral	Don't think so, but I actually haven't checked.
12:52:38	Llorean	I just see it as being extra cautious about avoiding false positives, even in a situation where they wouldn't be harmful
12:53:08	sideral	We could as well check the last sample of the first frame, and the first sample of the last frame
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12:53:36	Llorean	If the last sample is silent, assume intent?
12:53:52	sideral	Llorean: Agree. There still can be false positives though, because the encoder/decoder-added gap could theoretically extend into the neighboring frame. But there's only so much we can do :)
12:53:57	Llorean	Because it should never be a whole frame of silence due to the encoder problem?
12:54:07	sideral	Llorean: Yes
12:54:10	Llorean	Sounds fair to me.
12:54:31	Llorean	All I really want is "as much (sane) effort as possible to avoid false positives" (even though I'll likely keep the feature turned off)
12:54:49	Llorean	And a setting, just so people still have the option to say "don't mess with my files"
12:54:50	JdGordon	seems like it should be possibly to get the chance of false positive down to almost nothing
12:55:08	Llorean	JdGordon: That's more or less how I feel too. Or at least, I hope it's possible.
12:55:22	JdGordon	especially if the only cost here is a bit more code which is only run in 2 frames per track
12:55:44	JdGordon	mp3 isnt exactly a slow decoder on any target
12:55:47	sideral	The cut-off is still tricky. Cutting too much can be audible.
12:55:59	sideral	Need to go offline for some time. Catch up with you later!
12:59:13	n1s	I'd actually like a feture that could be enabled and cause a skip to the next track after x seconds of silence to jump to the next track when a shuffled playlist ends up in one of those tracks with 20 minutes of silence and then a "hidden track" at the end
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13:01:18	JdGordon	that will kill any buffering that had already happened
13:01:51	Llorean	20 minutes of buffered silence being thrown away isn't too bad....
13:02:22	linuxstb	n1s: That's the kind of thing you can/should fix when encoding. Or use an mp3 file splitter if you can't re-encode.
13:02:38	Llorean	I think it should be fixed with a splitter too
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13:03:20	n1s	of course it can be fixed before encoding but so can these files from old weird encoders too
13:03:50	Llorean	mp3directcut (if I have the name right) should be able to handle it just fine though.
13:04:01	Llorean	ANd then this new gap removal feature can handle the rest as long as you cut it well!
13:04:04	n1s	i don't have any mp3 files though
13:05:12	n1s	it's a convenience feature so you don't have to fix the files and don't need to take your glove off in -20C to skip to the next track
13:06:13	n1s	btw, these mp3 files missing lame tags could surely be prescanned and hav ethe tags added
13:07:03	Llorean	They could
13:07:14	Llorean	I suggested we should just have a plugin for it, like vbrfix
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13:14:04	gevaerts	Yes. I also think that's the better way to do this
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13:17:28	paulheu	As advised got freetype, but anything I need to know on installing? rb still missing ft2build.h
13:17:45	paulheu	and my linus is more rusty then I hoped..;)
13:17:48	paulheu	linux..
13:19:22	gevaerts	Which distribution are you using?
13:21:49		Quit mudd1 (Quit: Ex-Chat)
13:22:16	paulheu	ubuntu 10
13:22:29	gevaerts	Install the libfreetype6-dev package
13:22:35	paulheu	got ft2, disk make
13:22:42	paulheu	ah..k
13:22:44	paulheu	tx
13:24:30	gevaerts	kugel: as long as we don't actually distribute ttf fonts, do we need to always build convttf? This extra dependency makes that a bit annoying
13:27:06	paulheu	btw, is there an 'official' daily build for android? Would be willing to take that on as I do a daily for myself now ayway
13:27:30	gevaerts	There isn't
13:28:05	gevaerts	And having someone provide it manually isn't the right answer. We want it to be integrated in our normal build-on-commit system
13:28:24	paulheu	sofar I have done one daly and post on it in the rb as an app thread.. I'll just keep it there for now
13:28:35	paulheu	k I see
13:29:03	paulheu	figured that would happen once it gets out of 'unstable'
13:30:00	gevaerts	Well, that needs to happen for it to enter unstable :)
13:30:17	paulheu	:^)
13:30:48		Quit leavittx_ (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
13:30:50	paulheu	guess the resolution pathc need to get in first..
13:31:17	paulheu	builing for every separate system would not be a good idea obv
13:31:54	gevaerts	The resolution issue needs to be solved before we can declare it stable I think. I don't think providing builds for a number of resolutions (there aren't hundreds of them) is that bad for unstable
13:32:14	paulheu	true.. and kinda my point
13:32:49	paulheu	k I'm off doing my build..
13:45:49	CIA-2	New commit by 03jdgordon (r29535): Merge a bunch of code which is 99% identical so it makes it easier to add more of these later
13:52:40	CIA-2	r29535 build result: 312 errors, 180 warnings (jdgordon committed)
13:55:38		Quit user890104 ()
13:56:28	CIA-2	New commit by 03jdgordon (r29536): move code around to make checkwps compile
13:57:53	linuxstb	paulheu: Maybe you could create a thread in the unofficial builds forum, rather than in the main RaaA thread?
14:00
14:02:20	CIA-2	r29536 build result: 12 errors, 8 warnings (jdgordon committed)
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14:03:59	JdGordon	why does the cf gcc warn there but not arm?
14:04:45	Zagor	cf gcc is 4.5.2 while arm is 4.4.4
14:05:28	Zagor	that could be enough
14:09:09	CIA-2	New commit by 03jdgordon (r29537): last of the errors... hopefully
14:15:07	CIA-2	r29537 build result: All green
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14:32:58	kugel	gevaerts: "We pride ourselves on correct audio playback" <- do we? don't we sacrify (though minor) codec accuracy for speed in some places?
14:34:17	kugel	re: convttf <- I don't care much
14:36:21	gevaerts	kugel: I don't know, so I won't comment :)
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17:23:15	IuDeX	Hey all. Probably I bricked my Clip :/
17:23:34	IuDeX	Is there any possibility to unbrick it on Windows?
17:24:03		Quit sideral (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
17:24:12	saratoga	(reading logs) damn it i don't want to give users a stupid setting to decide how to work around mp3 format limitations
17:24:30	saratoga	we should either do it always or just tell users to encode their files correctly so that they dont glitch
17:27:58	IuDeX	I guess not
17:28:22	saratoga	theres some wiki page, but if you couldn't find it, you're not going to like what it says
17:28:53	IuDeX	saratoga: I found it.
17:33:36	saratoga	i'd make sure its actually bricked though and not just crashed
17:35:08	IuDeX	OF don't want to start
17:36:33	IuDeX	I tried: power 30sec, connect to computer, charge it.
17:36:43	IuDeX	And I think it's bricked
17:38:33	saratoga	did you let it sit for a couple days to see if the battery runs dead and reboots it?
17:39:12	IuDeX	so just wait?
17:39:54	IuDeX	Last time when it was working battery was at 30% - yesterday evening.
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19:17:04	roolku	So who has killed my buildclients this time. ;)
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19:26:29	roolku	Looks like Kugel's commit of anti-aliased fonts
19:27:02	pixelma	maybe this freetype (?) dependency, I believe gevaerts knows more about that
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19:30:01	bertrik	On ubuntu 10.10 I had to install libfreetype6-dev recently to compile rockbox
19:30:10	roolku	yes, it can't find "freetype-config" - I am trying to find out what this is, but there doesn't seem to be anything about it on the wiki
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19:39:01	roolku	yum -y install freetype-devel
19:39:15	roolku	seems to do the trick on fedora
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20:28:33	bluebroth3r	[Saint]: that TTS thing is a known issue. Seems to happen only on Windows, and only since the introduction of multithreaded voice generation.
20:28:59	bluebroth3r	I couldn't reproduce that until recently. Now I can but I haven't figured what's the cause and how to fix that.
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20:33:33	IuDeX	hey. One question. I connected my Clip now into USB. Clip dosen't work but Windows recongnizes 4mb partition. What is it?
20:34:12	u42p	aww, it seems like you bricked it
20:34:17		Quit TheLemonMan (Quit: Destructor called)
20:34:30	IuDeX	;x
20:34:34	u42p	:(
20:34:51	IuDeX	Any chance to fix it?
20:35:56	u42p	i was about to sent mine (same thing) to a developer so he could investigate the 4mb of whatever, but then it came back to corrupted live for a moment. now it is dead again
20:36:18	u42p	the current proper fix is http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SansaAMSUnbrick
20:36:51	IuDeX	Ok so I'lltry it tommorow
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20:48:46	IuDeX	but... 30mins ago it was normally rcognized by systeme :)
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21:04:11	mshathlonxp	I guess there isn't any way how to make "hold" block any functions not releated to playback, keeping play/pause, next, previous and volume working?
21:04:31	AlexP	no
21:04:38	[Saint]	what makes you say that.
21:04:47	[Saint]	I'm sure it's possible.
21:04:56	AlexP	I suspect he means currently
21:05:01	AlexP	As that would make more sense
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21:05:20	mshathlonxp	I have no doubt it's possible - rockbox is limited only by hardware it's being run on and developers time... :)
21:05:39	mshathlonxp	but how hard is to make something like that?
21:05:41	gevaerts	mshathlonxp: that's a contradiction
21:05:56	gevaerts	On some hardware, hold is done in hardware
21:06:01	AlexP	And whether it is really possible might well depend on hardware for this
21:06:22	mshathlonxp	does ipod's keys are being locked in hardware level?
21:06:48	linuxstb	I think so, yes.
21:06:55	mshathlonxp	that's not good...
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21:07:33	*	mshathlonxp likes the way it's on PSP, where that switch simply tells software that user wants keys locked, but software can still accept some input
21:07:35		Quit IuDeX (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF))
21:08:03	gevaerts	We'll tell Apple your opinion next time they ask
21:08:10	*	mshathlonxp laughs
21:10:00	mshathlonxp	well, but there still should be way how to make rockbox ignore some inputs, however I dunno if someone would create something like that because I guess nobody has my needs :>
21:11:06	*	mshathlonxp sometimes listens music @ work, so it's preferred that ipod remains in pocket, but it may end up in some menus or anywhere else where it should not end up
21:11:08	AlexP	No, they seem quite special :)
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21:11:38	mshathlonxp	I even managed to "create dynamic playlist" with all my stuff, just by trying to unpause it
21:13:20	linuxstb	Some target have a software hold - toggled by holding a combination of buttons I think. Someone could implement/enable that for the ipods, although there aren't many combinations of buttons free.
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21:29:52	IuDeX	Now my Clip started. It's recognized by system but I cannot access the clip memory., Only SD Card. So Clip is not totally bricked probably ;)
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21:31:14	bertrik	IuDeX, did you unbrick it using the instructions, or did it somehow wake up spontaneously?
21:31:35	u42p	haha
21:31:39	u42p	same like me or what
21:31:43	u42p	do you see 4 partitions?
21:32:12	u42p	sorry, i was excited. read what you actually wrote now
21:34:19	IuDeX	bertrik: Noo. It just waked up ;)
21:35:10	IuDeX	u42p: No. i see 2 partitions. SD card works great. Windows autostart found on NAND audio files but now it' sthinking.
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21:37:27	IuDeX	maybe format will help
21:38:09	bertrik	IuDeX, yes, that's what I would do at this point: format it from within the original firmware (not from windows), put back an original firmware .bin file and reboot
21:38:33	IuDeX	bertrik: but I think that Clip works only on computer.
21:38:59	IuDeX	bertrik: Probably Clip+ will hang up when will be disconeccted
21:39:13	bertrik	oh maybe the battery is very low now, better leave it connected for a few hours then
21:39:42	IuDeX	Martik USB formatter recognizes 2 partitions
21:39:49	IuDeX	1856mb - clip
21:39:54	IuDeX	and card :)
21:40:12	IuDeX	Try to format?
21:42:12	IuDeX	or not?:>
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21:51:07	CIA-2	New commit by 03thomasjfox (r29538): Add rockbox rpm .spec file ...
21:55:27		Quit IuDeX (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF))
21:56:04	CIA-2	r29538 build result: All green
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22:23:00	CIA-2	New commit by 03bluebrother (r29539): Fix cross compiling on Linux: Python uses "linux2" as platform name.
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22:27:27	CIA-2	r29539 build result: All green
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23:58:44	eleplex	hello
23:58:55	eleplex	any body can help

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