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#rockbox log for 2011-03-28

00:00:21bertriksaratoga, for the ipods a student could work on accessory support for the nano2g and classic 6g. IAP is currently hooked directly into the PP serial interrupt, so it's not working yet on the nano2g/classic6g which are based on the s5l870x
00:00:52saratogabertrik: yeah,a lthough thats probably not a full summer worth of work
00:01:58 Join Hindu [0] (~Hindu@218.248.64.129)
00:01:58bertrikI've been too lazy so far to put up a proper description of that task on the gsoc ideas page
00:01:58saratogai was thinking of adding support for a new version of the accessory protocol, adding a driver for the USB accessory protocol, etc
00:01:58saratogai'll put one up now and you can change it if you like
00:02:42bertrikIAP could use a little refactoring to split it up into 1) a proper serial driver (create/unify a serial API), 2) the autobaud code 3) the IAP protocol code
00:03:40bertriksaratoga, do you think it would be possible to use accessories intended for one device on another?
00:03:59saratogawith hardware adapters, probably
00:04:21saratogaalthough it might be possible to use the Apple USB protocol on anything with a software USB stack if they haven't encrypted it
00:04:25bertrikI vaguely remember talk about a remote control using a 4 pin audio plug, that could possibly be used on other targets
00:04:31saratoga(this is pure speculation)
00:06:14bertrikDo you have more information on the apple USB protocol? is the player the USB host and the peripheral the USB slave?
00:07:07gevaertsI think the player is the device, but I'm not sure
00:07:17gevaertsThis is a vague memory from when JdGordon ran some tests
00:08:22 Quit efyx (Remote host closed the connection)
00:08:37JdGordon|hrm?
00:08:37 Quit kevku (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
00:10:58saratogabertrik: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SummerOfCode2011#Apple_47Sandisk_47etc_Various_Docks_44_Remotes_44_Accessories
00:11:08saratogafeel free to improve
00:12:44bertriklooks good
00:18:23 Quit bertrik (Quit: :tiuQ)
00:23:39 Quit mudd1 (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
00:27:40saratoga[libav-devel] [PATCH][RFC] Fixed-point FFT and MDCT
00:27:44saratogaoh hell
00:29:06stripwaxinteresting
00:29:41stripwaxis it better than ours?
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00:29:55saratogai think its basically ours without everything you merged from libtremor
00:30:29saratogaso it might be better on ARM11 or Cortex where we don't care about memory savings so much as memory locality
00:31:47stripwaxah .. nifty. you mean it doesn't have the merged twiddle tables for mdct + ifft, it uses separate tables for each one for each fft size?
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00:32:06saratogai think so
00:32:40stripwaxit's worth evaluating ...
00:33:32stripwaxalthough, i seem to remember offering to do this on rockbox code; and i still just don't have any time :-(
00:33:41saratogaits probably better to just take what we have and make the merged tables a compile time option based on CPU
00:33:49stripwaxwhere "this" means "undoing the bits I did to merge the twiddle tables"
00:33:54saratogamake someone do it for GSOC!
00:33:59stripwaxsaratoga - yeah!
00:34:13stripwaxas a test (not project) −− right?
00:34:27saratogaor part of a much larger project
00:34:35saratogawe've got a big list of optimization goals, the mdct is one of them
00:34:37stripwaxhm true
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00:40:11dfktsaratoga, i found some more telechips material. lots of documents and a linux dev kit, if you're interested
00:40:27saratogais it one of those leaked SDKs?
00:40:42dfkti think it is of questionable legality, yes
00:41:14saratogai think i've seen all that
00:41:15dfktthe dev kit can be found as LINUX_BSP_100205-R0170B2750.tar.bz2
00:41:38saratogamostly just curious if they were releasing real android drivers for things like the flash memory
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01:46:11***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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02:00
02:00:42[Saint]JdGordon|: I've been thinking about hiding the "control panel" in the .sbs with a tab (as suggested), but iiuc this will run into the same problem my old personal theme had with UI viewports in that the lists aren't redrawn if the UI viewport changes.
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02:01:23[Saint](the only reason I could think to hide the control panel would be to fullscreen the lists...unless I'm missing something)
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02:18:15JdGordon|[Saint]: yes, but i can kick it if needed
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03:46:14***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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03:47:35DarkenvyI need help with my ipod
03:47:59DarkenvyI went to go add music, now I ereased my HDD. its a bad day ;(
03:47:59Darkenvyon top of that I cant format it and it locks up linux/windows while plugged in
03:55:59robin0800Darkenvy, try restoring it with itunes
03:57:05DarkenvyI did
03:57:14DarkenvyI tried restoring it with itunes from mac and windows
03:57:55Darkenvyonly on a mac was I able to format it using the disk utility. ONLY then am I able to restore with windows only. not even mac
03:58:00robin0800Darkenvy, did that work?
03:58:03Darkenvyno
03:58:19Darkenvybecause after the restore I am abck to all 3 computers freezing when plugged in
03:58:48robin0800Darkenvy, can you get it into disk mode?
03:58:50Darkenvythe MOMENT I unplug it all 3 OS'es speed up really fast to compensate for the '3-8 minute lag'
03:58:53Darkenvyyes
03:59:01DarkenvyI have tried to perform all this in disk mode too
04:00
04:00:07Darkenvynow before I restored the HDD, it did the same thing. but the ipod worked! music, original Ipod firmware, rockbox, file browser in rockbox. all of everything. HDD spins up loads fast
04:01:11Darkenvybut then I tried to load an album. all forums online informed others of the same problem to "restore ipod" and that will fix it. so I tried that now im SOL
04:01:12robin0800Darkenvy, an itunes restore should wipe all data
04:01:41Darkenvyyes and it did. but after the itunes restore I can no longer see it as a disk and it locks all the systems up
04:02:08Darkenvy(but for mac I can still get into disk manager and reformat it. this is the only way to 'try again')
04:02:37robin0800Darkenvy, do you mean you cant get into disk mode now?
04:02:50Darkenvyno
04:02:55Darkenvythat is not what im saying
04:03:08Darkenvydisk manager = mac osx disk utility
04:04:12robin0800Darkenvy, it must be itunes for windows i think fat32
04:04:17DarkenvyI cant get any OS to reconize the Ipod as a HDD nor be seen in itunes.
04:04:50Darkenvyso then should I try formatting it to fat32 first then restore within itunes on a windows?
04:04:51robin0800Darkenvy, not even in disk mode?
04:05:00Darkenvynope not even in disk mode
04:05:41robin0800Darkenvy, just itunes on windows should be enough
04:06:17DarkenvyI have to format it in a Mac OSX disk tool in order for windows to read it first
04:06:37Darkenvyotherwise in ipod's Disk mode + windows = freeze
04:07:14Darkenvyso once its formatted using the Mac OSX tool it is purely a HDD. one that works and is error free.
04:07:31Darkenvythe moment I turn it into an ipod it stops functioning
04:07:42Darkenvy...with the computers
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04:09:36robin0800Darkenvy, yes that is expected the apple files and hidden partition are probably missing thats why it needs an itunes restore
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04:13:00DarkenvyI have tried itunes restore from both windows and mac. I already said that this IS THE FUNCTION that makes my computers freeze when the ipod is plugged in
04:14:48LloreanDarkenvy: Then complain to Apple that their software is freezing your computer?
04:14:52robin0800Darkenvy, try unplugging the ipod and then quickly plug it back in at the freeze
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04:18:27Darkenvyokay that did help
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04:18:54DarkenvyI was able to get to windows format tool which limited me to formatting the ipod to 200mb of FAT32. perhaps going into the restore with fat32 may help
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04:22:41Darkenvybad intertnet
04:22:43Darkenvybrb
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05:28:08[Saint]Darkenvy: (logs) If you see this....it actually sounds like your disk is dead dude....
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05:31:53[Saint]JdGordon|: So, what was the "mute-bug" issue?
05:32:19[Saint]Glad you got it sorted, though I haven't tried a fixed build yet, it was driving me *nuts*.
05:32:48[Saint]I can't believe that no one else complained about it actually. No one actually uses bleeding edge RaaA?
05:34:12JdGordon|[Saint]: technical answer.... mixing enum cases in a switch()
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05:35:30[Saint]Is that dev-code for "I brokeded it"?
05:35:36[Saint];)
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05:39:33[Saint]So...regarding skin vars...my understanding is a little fragile. It needs to be set up (in my/our case) so that the popup viewport(s) increment "foo"+1, and the album info viewports check if "foo" is >0 and goes true then?
05:40:55[Saint]All I really know about them is "it should let me do what I want in this case", though the how is a little vague still.
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05:46:15***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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05:49:07JdGordon|[Saint]: that sounds about right
05:49:21JdGordon|or you can just set the var to some value you know means "show the poppup"
05:49:32JdGordon|its pretty flexible
05:51:07[Saint]For the meantime, I've gone ahead and made sure that every function of the .wps can be reached without the popups...but it'd be very nice to get them working and remove some of the duplicated touch areas.
05:51:27[Saint]I'll have a look at it tonight when I can.
05:51:52JdGordon|*cough* put it on git and i'll do the vars
06:00
06:04:42[Saint]gah...your obsession with git!
06:05:05[Saint]here's a pastebin of it, if you're lucky...I'll set up mysysGit tonight.
06:05:06[Saint]http://pastebin.com/9sW8NcZE
06:05:27[Saint]*mysysGit
06:05:35[Saint]twice... -y
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06:08:54[Saint]My plan is, once these two are done 480x800 and 240x320, I'll put them on the tracker for myself (and others, if anyone is keen) to continue the porting process from there.
06:09:32 Quit simonrvn (Quit: updated kernel)
06:10:03[Saint]pretty much with code examples from both a small and large screened target, the only things that need to change between ports is positioning of stuff, and creating a few new images here and there.
06:11:41[Saint]while I'd *like* to do all the images (so it doesn't end up like current cabbieV2 with 10 different shades/variations of the same theme slightly different), it's reasonably unrealistic in a reasonable timeframe and I wouldn't say no to an enthusiastic volunteer.
06:13:05JdGordon|i dont see why touch and non-touch skins need to be kept in sync
06:17:20[Saint]because there's no way to tell them apart.
06:17:59[Saint]I'd need to add a bunch of shit to the 230x320 theme to make it work right on a non touch target.
06:18:12[Saint](and now I realised what you actually meant)
06:18:38[Saint]And because it'll be *weird* changing the layout so much on the touch themes without doing the same on the non-touch ones.
06:19:58[Saint]*240x320
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06:20:50[Saint]I suppose that'd just be a matter of making the popup tabs conditional to %Tp though...there's less touch specific stuff there than I thought.
06:21:34 Quit m1k3y (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
06:21:54[Saint]I guess the thing is that my 24px iconset hasn't gone in because it's different to the "standard" cabbie icons, and from what I was told the only way to get it in there is to adapt the other icons to match.
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06:22:39[Saint]I see that as a relatively small thing, so a different .wps/.sbs for touch targets without touching the non-touch targets would be equally poorly recieved I'd say.
06:26:03JdGordon|i tinhk that is idiotic
06:26:20JdGordon|(if that is the reason they havnt gone in)
06:27:07JdGordon|24px isnt big enough anyway :)
06:28:07JdGordon|hmm, i may have misread... yes all cabbie icon sets should be generally the same, so one way or the other they should be synced
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06:32:55[Saint]In turn though, that kinda goes with (my initial thoughts on this) "why does RaaA and "standard RB" have to match 100%?"
06:33:10*JdGordon| punches [Saint] in the face...
06:33:14JdGordon|its not RaaA vs regular
06:33:18JdGordon|its touch vs regular
06:33:21JdGordon|BIG DIFFERENCE
06:34:20[Saint]My thoughts for the different iconset was "the screens are *much* higher res, I can have prettier icons".
06:34:41[Saint]I pretty much just won't be able to do the same iconset (and have it look right) in 12px
06:34:54[Saint]which is where I'm stumped.
06:35:38JdGordon|i'd say dont bother then
06:35:49JdGordon|why cant we have icons-hires and icons-lowres?
06:35:53JdGordon|which we already have anyway
06:36:40[Saint]to make them actually look nice, I'd have to change some icons. As some that look good in a higher res look crap scaled down to 12px (to the point you can't even tell what they are).
06:36:58JdGordon|I'm tempted to suggest making something like 72x72 and then resizing on load for raaa
06:37:29[Saint]this is where I don't agree with what was proposed...I don't think it's a crime to have different iconsets...but others do.
06:37:40[Saint]so, I just kinda threw the towel in.
06:38:28Llorean[Saint]: Is there some reason we *need* to have different icons for the larger set (not want, but actually need, such as missing highrez versions of some of them or something)?
06:38:40[Saint]I couldn't even find a few of the icons that the cabbie 12px iconset is made from in the tango iconset now...it seems it's changed too much.
06:38:45[Saint]that was another one of my problems.
06:39:43[Saint]hah, Llorean...yes, ironically I was just explaining that.
06:40:01[Saint]the ones that are different, I either couldn;t find, or the SVN icon is just *stupid!*
06:40:37[Saint](and, there's lots of cases of that that I "corrected" or tried too. Cases where the action and the icon don't even loosely associate)
06:40:47LloreanMaybe bring that up on -dev then. It's impossible to adapt the current iconset, is it okay to go with "thematically similar" or do we need to hunt down icons that look good both hi and low res (which can be quite difficult)
06:41:15JdGordon|[Saint]: can you do a high res version of individual icons possibly, so it can be committed into the source?
06:41:22JdGordon|or are these really tango?
06:41:43[Saint]my last point is also very valid. comparing the iconset in svn with their actions, and their actaul usage is a *real* laugh.
06:42:04[Saint]"or are these really tango?" <−− Hm?
06:43:54JdGordon|where is the source images for the icons and everything in cabbie?
06:44:01JdGordon|its embarrasing that it isnt in svn
06:44:11[Saint]they don't exist.
06:44:45[Saint]I have my own set of values that I've been sticking to for consistency, something svn cabbie just doen't have.
06:45:14[Saint]the yellow (even though I am colourblind) even I can see varies wildly.
06:46:46Llorean[Saint]: It should be easy to test whether the yellow's different or not no matter how your vision is - just check the RGB value
06:48:34[Saint]just flipping through thumbnails in the source and it's pretty obvious. I can't tell personally exactly how bad it is without doing just that though.
06:48:50[Saint]I assume a normally sighted person would see it very easily.
06:49:39LloreanI haven't noticed it myself, but I never look at them side by side.
06:50:34[Saint]My assumption is that it was done to cater for different LCDs, but where possible that should be countered with the default brightness value for the target.
07:00
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08:21:29pixelma[Saint]: I noticed the different kinds of yellow too and there were also some source bitmaps unnecessarily using 32-bit depth at some point in time - so I think the reason is 'only' that different people worked on the ports using different editors
08:24:36[Saint]I think it's also feasible that there are light/dark LCDs, and that authors may have tried to compensate for this.
08:24:56LloreanThere are definitely light/dark/different tinted LCDs
08:25:04pixelmaand I think it should be possible to have similar style icons for all ports which may need hand-editing to get the small ones recognisable. There's no need to have it right from the start but experience shows that 'do it later' sometimes gets forgotten (e.g. the greyscale menu icons are just scaled down and should be reworked which hasn't happened ever since...)
08:25:05LloreanBut I'm not sure I'd guess that's what happened.
08:25:36pixelmaI doubt i
08:26:00[Saint]pixelma did a lot of work on the greyscale cabbies I though...
08:26:10[Saint]*thought
08:26:23pixelmaat least that it happened on purpose for a target lcd - I guess most people used sims
08:26:39pixelmaonly for the WPS
08:26:47[Saint]ah.
08:26:52LloreanIt may be possible that they look different because when they scaled, colors blended differently.
08:26:57pixelmanot the menu icons
08:27:41LloreanBut I do know that the colors are fairly different between my Nano, Gigabeast, e200 and c200
08:27:52LloreanI mean "the colors" as in *everything's colors*
08:27:56LloreanThe screens are just quite different
08:28:36[Saint]yeah...if it's going to look different anyway...I think it would be better to have all the source images be consistent...but it's a pretty massive job.
08:28:38pixelmathe colours on my and amiconn's c200 are already different...
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08:30:03LloreanDo we need a color-calibration plugin? ;)
08:30:52pixelmaI don't think that's possible on our targets ;)
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09:20:30bertriksideral, just another thought regarding interference on the clipv2: it seems we switch GPIO B5 for sd card communication while we shouldn't. I'll disable that tonight.
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09:32:33kugelpS_a_i_n_t: did you explain why fixing the 12 pixel icon set is impossible?
09:36:25S_a_i_n_tit's not impossible...it's just not very convenient to do it either way. A good percentage of the icons used in the current iconset are no longer available and/or make no sense in the way they are used....and the larger scale ones I substituted in my 24px set look shit scaled down to 12px
09:39:26S_a_i_n_tI don't think it would be a shame if the current iconset was dropped like a hot rock, and rethought from the beginning. I don't see the point in adapting the iconset to a flawed mechanism personally....a good ~30% of the icons in the iconset aren't ever used. And viewers are horribly borken.
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09:39:50S_a_i_n_t*broken too.
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09:42:39S_a_i_n_tA brand spanking new icons/viewers implementation would inspire me to work on it a lot more, I can say that with complete honesty.
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09:44:36S_a_i_n_tbut that's a huge amount of work, apparently...as shown by the fact that icons slipped from being used for their functions purpose, to being used for the icon that looks best in its place. making for some *really* weird/broken use of the icons in some places. But that pretty much had to happen, as as the iconset developed the icon function name and the actual icon apparently fell horribly out of sync somewhere.
09:45:49S_a_i_n_tlooking at the icon, compared to the icon function name, and then comparing that with how the icon is used in practice is a real laugh in some places.
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10:13:18mem_Is there a way to sort the bugs (in the rtracker) by plattform? I tested Zagor's Andriod build from last week and I guess the bugs I see related to Android more than to Rockbox in general.
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10:13:49mem_Before submiting new bug reports it would be nice to see if they already reported
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10:14:48Zagormem_: we don't track bugs for unreleased targets. they are just too many.
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10:16:39mem_Zagor: Should I just leave it or should I write them down in an email?
10:18:25mem_Zagor: in general the apk works, so I'm really glad that I got it even if it's some things that could behave differrent!
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10:24:41Zagormem_: a mail to the dev list or just noting them here (for the log) is enough, I think
10:26:51B4gderperhaps we should have a wiki page with "known flaws" or something
10:27:02mem_zagor: can I post to the dev list without being a member of the dev list?
10:27:55Zagorno
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10:32:17mem_zagor: no to me or Bagder?
10:33:15Zagormem_: to you. the mailing list is restricted to subscribers. a wiki page might be a good idea.
10:33:53kugelp[Saint]: i don't understand
10:34:47kugelpwith fixing the current one I meant replacing it with a smaller scale of your 24 pixel set
10:35:22kugelphow is the wrong-ness of the current set of any relevance there?
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10:48:33[Saint]kugelp: I can't see how you don't think the state of the current iconset is a problem.
10:48:46[Saint]If it was code, you'd hack it out of the core like a dead limb.
10:49:01kugelpif we just replace it with yours?
10:49:05[Saint]sure.
10:49:23kugelpwhere is the problem?
10:49:32[Saint]mine is just avoiding the fact that it's horribly broken by mixing the icons and their function up even more.
10:49:35[Saint]that's not a fix.
10:49:50kugelpwhy not?
10:50:17[Saint]that's a workaround...not a fix. If my iconset goes in it's less incentive for anyone to *ever* "do it right".
10:50:22kugelpI thought your icons are good
10:50:26[Saint]they are.
10:50:40[Saint]but there's 30% of them that never gets used...that's broken.
10:51:24[Saint]and that's a conservative estimation.
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10:55:48kugelphow does that relate to the icon set?
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10:56:19kugelpthat doesn't answer my question
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10:57:17kugelpreplacing something bad with something goodwith no drawbacks sounds like a pretty good fix to me
10:57:46S_a_i_n_tI don't see why it's not obvious that fixing the way icons are used is a far better solution to fix the way icons are used instead.
10:57:57S_a_i_n_tas opposed to working around their brokenness even more.
10:58:54S_a_i_n_tI made the iconset because I was sick of the icons being so weird, and it was beyond my ability to reimplement the way icons are applied.
10:58:59S_a_i_n_tit was a workaround.
10:59:19S_a_i_n_tMy iconset can't fix viewers being busted.
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11:12:31*JdGordon| has no idea what you are arguing about... but its code i implemented, so whats the probme?
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12:02:44StefARMi've noticed the fuss around the "various docks" gsoc project. there seems to be quite some interest (and competition :smirk:) regarding the matter, and the project specifications have evolved nicely (at least there's more flexibility now)
12:03:21StefARMon the other hand, the usb stack can prove challenging from my experience. anyway, my question is: are we approaching a final form of the project or is it prone to substantial modifications? because i'd like to start documenting and writing some outlines and MO's
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12:09:10B4gderStefARM: well, each student is supposed to present his/hers own proposal. What we have in our wiki is just a collection of ideas and suggestions to be used as the foundation for the proposal
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13:09:25silboso did anyone apply for rockbox GSoC yet?
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13:10:14silboI really want to work on rockbox, but I am working hard on my bachelor thesis
13:10:41silbountill summer
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14:17:18TheSevensilbo: some people asked for information about various projects, but I have no idea if anyone of them did apply yet
14:17:48silboTheSeven: ok
14:18:19StefARMsilbo: what are you considering applying for ?
14:19:05gevaertsWell, applications aren't open yet, so obviously nobody applied yet :)
14:22:36TheSevenbtw, has there been any effort to actually port sqlite to rockbox so far? or were there just plans?
14:23:38gevaertsThere's a working patch
14:23:55gevaertsWell, it worked at some point, for some tests
14:24:24gevaertsFS #8852
14:24:41TheSevenok, so porting the engine apparently is possible
14:24:49TheSeventhat's good to know
14:25:06gevaertsIt's designed to be portable, and it does it quite well :)
14:25:34silboStefARM: I don't know yet, I wanted to make the battery patch for the calibration, but havent had any time because of my thesis
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14:26:15silboStefARM: I really want the experience on participating, but don't know if I am capable of learning all this for summer
14:26:35gevaertsYou are
14:27:34silboOne thing I really would love to learn is optimizing a C code, we have done that in school once on a microcontroller
14:29:10silboHas anyone measured latency of real-time systems before?
14:29:19gevaertsProbably :)
14:29:23silboxD
14:29:48gevaertsRockbox isn't really a classic real-time system, so I'm not sure if we care :)
14:29:50silboI am searching for different options to do that, but so far found only 2
14:30:31gevaertsMaybe #rockbox-community is a better place for that. Similar people, but no obligation to talk about rockbox :)
14:30:50silbook
14:32:43gevaertshm, http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,27586.0.html is interesting...
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14:33:41TheSevenit does work on target though?
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14:38:45StefARMgevaerts: i was living under the impression that rockbox is quite time-dependant (from the top of my head: time quantum sharing between decoding and user commands?! human-insensible response times etc.). but then again i haven't had the chance to study the problem thoroughly. what do you mean it's not a "classic" rts?
14:40:12gevaertsStefARM: it means that it can go wrong :)
14:40:28StefARMnice one :)
14:42:18gevaertsRockbox basically (warning: simplification ahead, and I'm not an expert!) increases the priority of the codec thread whenever the PCM buffer (which is the last stage before actual sound output) gets rather empty. On players that support it, the CPU frequency also gets boosted then
14:43:02gevaertsA similar thing happens with the main audio buffer, which contains (chunks of) the audio files, and which feeds the codec. If that gets low, again the CPU gets boosted, and more data is read from disk
14:43:41gevaertsBut it's still a classic cooperative multithreading system, so if you have a badly written plugin, that plugin can easily eat all CPU cycles and block audio
14:45:00StefARMthus a prioritised real time system...
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14:46:37gevaertsWell, yes
14:47:03gevaertsBut a rather weak one, I'd say
14:47:56StefARMsilbo: as a fellow student, not as a member of the dev team or anything else: i'd recommend getting a easily programmable core (my choice - cortex m0-m3) with a fast debugger(segger jlink /copy of) and (personal choice) IAR embedded workbenchbench
14:48:43*gevaerts points out that that isn't actually about rockbox then :)
14:49:09StefARMsilbo: get a medium/fast oscilloscope.. and make some pins go on and off... make it a liitle complicated, disassemble, measure software time and you're good to go
14:49:25StefARMsorry for the deviation, gevaerts
14:49:55gevaertsStefARM: feel free to join #rockbox-community and talk about non-rockbox stuff there!
14:50:03silboxD
14:51:55silboStefARM: ok thx
14:53:47StefARMgevaerts: gsoc related question: should one apply as soon as possible or is this irrelevant to the selection process?
14:54:27B4gder StefARM: it is irrelevant, but you can update it while the process is open so getting in early and getting feedback to improve with can be good
14:55:00gevaertsStefARM: I'm not sure if the timing of the official application matters much (although make sure you check your timezones! 19:00 UTC is 19:00 UTC...), but please talk about what you plan to do :)
14:55:50B4gderand from experience from previous years, we know that 50% of the applications are posted the last few hours... .-/
14:56:22silbowe plan to rock the box
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14:56:55B4gderjust the fact that you're here before posting a proposal is better than most =)
14:57:11StefARMit's about the "various docks" project. i've had a chat with <saratoga> a couple of days ago, when the project had different specifications. the main problem was a logistic one (not too many sansa docks laying around). but now that's a little more relaxed, as far as resources are concerned
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16:37:15MisanI patched and installed the sleep_timer-patch for my clip+ from FS #11042
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16:37:55MisanAnd think its a neat idea... other too think it should go to svn and I wonder what can be done to make it into svn tree
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16:40:01Torneno developers ahve commented on it for a while so it's not clear if it's technically acceptable or not
16:40:31TorneHm. it still includes a giant change tot he simulator which is unrelated to the thing in question
16:40:37Torneso i'd say that was the firs tthing to fix :)
16:41:24Misanhm.. i compiled it for the simulator and it worked there too
16:41:34Tornethat's not what i mean
16:41:42Misanyou mean it should not modify the simulator?
16:41:52TorneThe patch changes two totally seperate and unrealted things: it changes how the sleep timer works, and it also changes how the simulation of power management works
16:42:03Tornethe original author was presumably using hte latter to make it easier to test the former
16:42:13Tornebut it should be a seperate patch
16:42:16Torne(and task)
16:42:39TorneAnyway. Even if that was sorted, the patch is still pretty big and introduces lots of new UI
16:42:56Tornethis kind of thing is generally tricky to get in because it's a pretty obscure feature that few people (and evidently no developers) care about
16:43:20Torneso getting agreement that the UI is as we'd like, and the increase in code size/complexity is worth it, may be tricky.
16:43:31Misani see, thx for the info. so if it were simpler it would get in easier
16:43:52TorneProbably, but I don't know how simple it can be made and still do what you/others want.
16:43:59TorneDefinately the simualtor changes need to be split from it, though
16:44:08Torneit's unlikely any developers would seriously consider it until that was done
16:45:36Tornethey're almost half the patch :)
16:47:34*Torne comments as much on the task.
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16:55:02Misanok Torne - i will just follow the development and use the patch for myself meanwhile :-)
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18:17:37bertrikIs there anyone here with an AMSv2 variant 1 player (only applicable to clip+ or fuzev2)?
18:18:31Misanme
18:18:54funmanthe nice looking girl i just met in the metro 1 hour ago but she left
18:19:12funmanbertrik: about GPIO B5 ?
18:19:12boghogi seem to have an AMSv2 variant 1
18:19:13Misanbertrik, i have a clip+ amsv2 v 1
18:19:16boghogclip+
18:19:40bertrikfunman, yes
18:20:02bertrikboghog, Misan, great, I like to get something tested for such a player
18:20:34Misanabout sd driver?
18:21:08boghogwould love to help test stuff
18:21:34bertrikfunman, maybe it's not that big of a deal, since the GPIO thing is only done if(sd_present(SD_SLOT_AS3525)), but I'd like to be sure
18:22:43bertrikI think the GPIO B5 thing is only needed for AMSv2 variant 1
18:23:00Misani can do a test - what should be tested?
18:25:31bertrikMisan, if the internal sd memory and external sd memory still work
18:26:38bertrikMisan, boghog, I'll post a link to a binary later tonight, ok?
18:26:58boghogalright :)
18:27:05Misanbertrik, a patch would be ok too
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18:30:45saratogabertrik: about your post on ABI, is the SD controller unlocked after sd_enable(0)?
18:30:53saratogaunclocked rather
18:31:55bertriksaratoga, I'm not sure, it could be that sd_enable(false) already stops all sd related clocks, also the ones going to the card
18:33:54bertrikMisan, http://pastebin.com/Ehem3Uuq
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18:41:50funm4nbertrik: it was added in 25245 for uSD support (before we knew about amsv2 rev 1)
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18:49:13bertrikfunm4n, odd. As far as I understand, variant 0 uses two CIUs (card interface units) with separate CMD lines for each slot, variant 1 uses only one CIU (ciu number 1) and uses only one CMD line that is switched between the internal and external "slot" using GPIO B5
18:49:33bertrikthe GPIO B5 switch doesn't appear to be necessary for my AMSv2 variant 0
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18:51:13funm4nbertrik: i'll try on my fuzev2 variant 0 in a moment
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19:03:34funm4nbertrik: variant 0 seems to work properly though there might be a problem on uSD ejection? i still see <microSD1> present in the list but leaving the menu clears it
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19:05:32bertrikI've seen that before the patch too.
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19:06:10[Saint]that sounds like a problem with the lists refreshing.
19:06:35[Saint]the fact that leaving the menu and returning clears it is kinda suspicious there.
19:06:56funm4nbertrik: ok, then it's all good for me. did you run battery_bench yet?
19:07:09bertrikfunm4n, no, not yet
19:08:00funm4ni hope pamaury takes a look at USB, on flyspray it's reported to run without problems even on windows
19:08:23bertrikcool, maybe the earlier problems were related to other bugs then
19:08:26pamauryI didn't try but I'll have try to have a look
19:08:49pamauryperhaps the bugs were only partially related to usb
19:09:00bertrikbugs like the last 0xF000 blocks not being accessible
19:09:03saratogascorche: ban cenfwxkey
19:10:12funm4nbertrik: i think this bug was added in january (recently)
19:10:15AlexPsaratoga: done
19:10:21saratogathanks
19:10:24funm4ndid you try gcc 4.6.0 already? (especially LTO)
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19:11:24funm4nSeveral improvements were committed to improve code generation for the ARM architecture including a rewritten implementation for load and store multiples.
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19:12:13saratogaso it won't do insane stuff like stack and unstack the same registers :)
19:12:51funm4nthey don't say anything about presence or absence of bugs in the 'rewritten implementation' :)
19:13:06gevaertsThat means there are no bugs!
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19:15:11saratoganot sure if that was a bug, i think the compiler just didn't take into account how to optimize loads and stores with register usage effectively on arm7/9/11
19:15:14*funm4n tries gcc 4.6.0 / binutils 2.21
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19:16:48Guest42652bertrik, I applied the patch, and applied it - it been recognized on startup
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19:17:42Guest42652uh.. but removing and reinserting did not work properly
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19:18:16Guest42652hmm... i was in debug i guess thats why
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19:21:10saratogadigging through the gcc mailing list to figure out exactly what they fixed for arm now
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19:34:22saratogafunm4n: unless i've got the wrong patch, i think most of the ldm changes are for thumb
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19:45:37funm4nsaratoga: good news for clipv1 then?
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19:47:11saratogadoes that use thumb?
19:50:09funm4nyes like c200v2 (because they have 2MB of ram) and m200v4 iirc
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19:59:43saidjjhi everyone! i need a little help: which firmware i should download for my ipod 4g grayscale from here http://www.felixbruns.de/iPod/firmware/?
20:00
20:01:01funm4nah gcc 4.6.0 needs libmpc
20:02:05Tornesaidjj: ...the one for your ipod?
20:02:14Tornewhat do you need it for anyway? :)
20:03:08saidjjTorne: i'm not sure between the 2 possible choices
20:03:51Tornewhichever one you want..
20:03:58 Quit einhirn (Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org)
20:04:02Torneprobably the latest, if you don't know the difference :)
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20:05:35saidjjTorne: mm the version seems to be the same.. i can't understand the difference between 4 and 10
20:05:44Tornethat's teh version as well
20:05:58Torneno, i have no idea why there are two version numbers
20:06:05Tornebut one of those is version 4 and one is version 10 :)
20:06:53Tornewhat are you doing?
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20:07:39saidjjI probably won't do it! I'm not so sure
20:08:06CIA-2New commit by 03bertrik (r29656): AMSv2 sd: do sd slot switching with GPIO B5 only for AMSv2 variant 1
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20:08:55Tornewon't do what?
20:09:42saidjjrestore my ipod
20:10:04Torneif you need to restore it the easiest and most reliable way ist o let itunes do it.
20:10:54saidjjyou are right, it's easier.. i'm gonna find a windows machine
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20:12:00funm4n /tools/convttf needs ot be added to svn:ignore
20:12:02saidjjyou know how to boot the original firmware instead of rockbox?
20:12:52CIA-2r29656 build result: All green
20:12:57funm4nsaidjj: the manual knows
20:12:58Torneyes, and so does the manual. :)
20:13:13saidjjmm ok i got it
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20:29:03amiconnbertrik: How do I know what variant a clip+ is?
20:29:29bertrikamiconn, it's in the HW info debug menu
20:30:07amiconnAh, of course. Mine is a variant 0
20:33:37funm4nbertrik: what was teh capacity of the card you tested? (i had a 1GB - not HC -, wondering if that matters)
20:34:07bertrikI tried a 4 GB SDHC and a 2 GB card (non-SDHC I think)
20:34:56funm4nah, can 2GB cards be HC ? don't remember the low limits for HC
20:36:37saratogathey're usually not HC, but i think they can be
20:37:11funm4nhaving HC cards breaks compatibility with non HC players so I doubt there is such a card on the market
20:37:28saratogawell theres hardly any market for non-HC cards anyway
20:37:50saratogamost microSD devices are going into phones, which are almost universally HC
20:39:02funm4nsaratoga: (just curious) do you have USB performance benches for amsv2? (OF vs rockbox), perhaps with test_disk results also to compare what we 'lose' in USB transfers
20:39:28saratogafunm4n: i didn't formally test, but extracting rockbox.zip takes much, much longer on clip+
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20:39:34saratogai can test now though
20:41:49saratogaugh stupid OF can't detect an SD card inserted while in USB mode
20:42:07funm4nstupid rockbox neither iirc ;)
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20:46:21saratogafunm4n: 5.4MB/s for the internal memory, 3.97MB/s for the external copying a large AVI file over USB in the OF
20:47:01saratoga(write speed)
20:47:19saratogafor whatever reason copying small files seems quite a lot slower then i would expect, usually flash memory isn't so bad at that
20:50:26wtachicould someone on the wiki add me (SeanBartell) to WikiUsersGroup?
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20:57:04pixelmawtachi: one moment, what do you want to work on by the way? Just curious :)
20:58:00saratogawtachi: done
20:58:05wtachimoving AllocatingRAM to MemoryManagement and adding stuff
20:58:07wtachithanks
20:59:04saratogasorry, wiki was a bit flaky, i think its done now
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21:00
21:00:24wtachiit works now
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21:04:32*amiconn summons Zagor or Bagder
21:05:26amiconnSomething is wrong with http://build.rockbox.org/dev.cgi ... 29656 doesn't show up in the time/ score table
21:08:40bertrikboghog, can you try this patch? http://pastebin.com/6JRuGZQ5
21:16:03bertrikor do you need a binary
21:17:45bertriksaratoga, I would be interested in the number of retries and re-inits for AMS(v2) players. Maybe these are happening a lot more than we think, slowing things down.
21:18:01bertrik(on the sd card interface I mean)
21:18:16saratogabertrik: fwiw those numbers were for the OF
21:18:34bertrikah ok
21:18:51saratogaalthough that may be something worth looking into
21:19:05saratogaand I have no idea if the OF really does thing optimally
21:20:34funm4nsaratoga: are you using usb with rockbox?
21:20:46saratogano i haven't tried it
21:21:02funm4nit's just a matter of uncommenting USE_ROCKBOX_USB in config/xxx.h
21:21:22funm4n(i also remove USB_HANDLED_BY_OF so rockbox detects when i change rockbox.sansa)
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21:22:27bertrikrigoletto, can you try this patch : http://pastebin.com/6JRuGZQ5
21:22:33saratogai'll try and test it later
21:25:55funm4nchecking for library containing strerror... configure: error: Link tests are not allowed after GCC_NO_EXECUTABLES.
21:25:58funm4nmake[1]: *** [configure-target-libiberty] Erreur 1
21:26:02funm4nno gcc 4.6.0 out of the box
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21:36:09n1sfunm4n: playing with the new gcc?
21:38:34boghogbertrik, currently building a cross-compiler so should hopefully be able to use patch
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21:41:03funm4nn1s: just trying to build it atm
21:41:34n1si wanted to play with it but havent' found the time yet
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21:46:39***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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22:01:20funm4nnot sure why gcc is building a target libiberty
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22:04:02bertrikboghog, I could post a binary if you want
22:04:34boghogalright
22:04:47boghogbinary would probably be quicker, building crosscompiler seems to take a while :p
22:05:18 Quit slooopy (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
22:05:21[Saint](now, wait by the mailbox...it'll be there in a week ;))
22:07:11funm4nIn file included from ../../../gcc-4.6.0/libiberty/safe-ctype.c:119:0:
22:07:12funm4n../../../gcc-4.6.0/libiberty/../include/safe-ctype.h:122:19: erreur fatale: ctype.h : Aucun fichier ou dossier de ce type
22:07:14funm4n:/
22:07:51pamaury\o/
22:08:01pamaurythe wonderful world of gcc building ;)
22:08:51*funm4n tries something
22:08:58bertrikboghog, http://www.datafilehost.com/download-2e93fcff.html <-copy rockbox.sansa into the .rockbox directory on the clip+
22:09:06funm4nlibiberty might be needed for gcc binary, but not for our rockbox code
22:11:59boghogbertrik, ok installed it and rebooted into it
22:12:49 Quit u42p (Quit: Leaving)
22:13:03boghogi have no idea what to actually test btw, just so you know :p
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22:14:45newnickdoes anybody know of an OS for the Sansa Fuze+?
22:15:01newnickoh wow fail
22:15:13 Nick newnick is now known as LotusExige (~a8d4429c@giant.haxx.se)
22:15:31LotusExigeyou know what, I will ask tonight
22:15:36LotusExigeI have to go to my next class
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22:17:04bertrikboghog, can you check if it is still able to access a card in the external sd slot?
22:17:54 Quit TheLemonMan (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
22:18:41 Nick TheLemonMan_ is now known as TheLemonMan (~lem0n@ppp-207-147.98-62.inwind.it)
22:19:23boghoghmm i'm not enitely sure, I can browse the external sdcard, but can't play songs from it
22:19:34boghogit will just get stuck at 0:00
22:20:15boghoghmm, I actually see 'codec failure'
22:20:23boghog or something flash by when I start playing something
22:20:55bertrikoh, that's probably a version mismatch between the .sansa file and the other files in rockbox (codecs, plugins, etc.)
22:20:55boghogI had rockobx 3.8 installed on this thing though, if that matters
22:21:00boghogah yeah
22:21:07boghogI just built rockbox from svn
22:21:12funm4njst grab the crrent build
22:21:14funm4nor that
22:21:15bertrikPlease first install the current zipfile, then overwrite the rockbox.sansa file
22:25:14funm4nok, now i have t hack more to remove target-zlib
22:26:05boghogbertrik, ok looks like its working
22:26:31bertrikcool, thanks for testing
22:26:57boghognp, just poke me here on irc if you ever need anything else tested
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22:30:12funm4nWARNING: Your cross-compiler arm-elf-eabi-gcc 4.6.0 is not of the recommended
22:30:12funm4nWARNING: version 4.4.4!
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22:32:41 Quit benedikt93 (Quit: "Nothing is true, everything is permitted")
22:36:34n1sfunm4n: \o/
22:37:56rigolettobertrik, shall i use this patch to head or to the patch you already supplied?
22:38:06bertrikrigoletto, to svn trunk
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22:39:25***ERROR: (Closing Link: giant.haxx.se (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)) from pratchett.freenode.net
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22:40:04rigolettobertrik, is that the patch you sent to boghog? shall i still test it?
22:40:23bertrikno, it think it's OK
22:41:55rigolettosince i had to change the clock today on my clip+, i wonder if rockbox would be interested in timezones :-)
22:42:28funm4na lot of 'variable XXX set but not used' warnings
22:42:47funm4nrigoletto: timezones is an ever changing thing (wrt summer time)
22:43:31funm4nOS need frequent updates to their timezone definitions to do the right thing; i am not sure we need so much complexity in rockbox
22:43:59n1swe reject that idea twice every year :)
22:44:03rigolettoI see - :-)
22:44:03funm4n:p
22:44:09rigolettohehe
22:44:27n1sfunm4n: yeah the set but not used warnings are new in 4.6 so i guess that's expected
22:44:29 Quit piotrekm (Quit: piotrekm)
22:46:57funm4n/media/bordel/rockbox/apps/recorder/bmp.c:495:11: warning: variable ‘transparent’ set but not used [-Wunused-but-set-variable]
22:46:58CIA-2New commit by 03bertrik (r29657): AMSv2 sd: correct CLKENA settings (to stop sd clock when idle) for AMSv2 variant 1 players
22:47:00funm4n^ bug
22:48:29funm4nfuzev2 binary is 1k smaller
22:48:57bertrikout of 500k or so?
22:49:19funm4n600
22:49:32funm4nboth mp3 decoding & chopper work, but USB plugging causes panic :'(
22:49:44funm4n'wrong architecture'
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22:52:13bertrikmaybe the extract macro causes weirdness
22:52:49bertrikreading the hardware register quickly several times in a row or something
22:53:55bertrikoh, I misunderstand it
23:00
23:01:34bertrikboghog, rigoletto, can you test this patch? http://pastebin.com/K056DJiL please test it with as many uSD cards you have
23:02:40rigolettobertrik, sure! i only have one - what should be expected?
23:03:18bertrikIt should just work, possibly speed up the boot process by about 100 ms :)
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23:08:43rigolettobertrik, works - but both internal and external cards showed 25mb/s instead of 50
23:11:44bertrikrigoletto, correct, the patch disables switching the card into high speed mode. The code to set high-speed mode is less than half done (the sd controller itself is still running at normal speed); it's not actually getting slower now.
23:13:01rigolettouhm... so you suggest to got to the current patch? i admit.. sometimes usb support got stuck but it works most of the time
23:15:56bertrikmy patch applies to svn trunk if that's what you mean
23:17:15 Quit kevku (Read error: Operation timed out)
23:17:26rigolettoby stating: "its not actually getting slower" you mean transfer rates via usb?
23:18:03bertrikrigoletto, no I mean transfer to/from the sd card, just copying data around
23:21:18rigolettobertrik, about timings −− i don´t understand to put them into high speed if there is no speed difference
23:22:22rigolettoor am i misunderstanding something?
23:23:00bertrikrigoletto, no, you're not misunderstanding, I think that part was copied from the AMSv1 sd controller driver, but never really properly implemented for AMSv2
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23:26:47rigolettobertrik, thanks you for helping out - do you get your ideas for implementing from the ARM926EJ datasheet?
23:27:34rigolettoor more specific.. is there a AMSv2 datasheet out there?
23:27:44bertrikno, the recent changes in the sd controller come from the user manual of the nxp lpc3100 microcontrollers
23:28:39 Quit jhMikeS (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
23:28:44bertrikAMSv2 has a mix of various "standard" peripheral controller blocks for ARM microcontrollers
23:29:06funm4ncan't link with -flto
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23:32:40rigolettobertrik, I found the lpc3130/31 - is it the one you were talking about?
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23:33:13bertrikyes, but this only describes the sd card controller
23:36:04funm4nhttp://pastebin.com/MLJEZREm
23:36:25funm4nLD rockbox.elf
23:36:25funm4n{standard input}: Assembler messages:
23:36:25funm4n{standard input}:569: Error: selected processor does not support Thumb mode `msr cpsr_c,r4'
23:36:32funm4nclipv1 build fails earlier than fuzev2
23:39:43funm4nclipv1 ram usage is 12k smaller with gcc 4.6.0 (untested though)
23:40:35boghogbertrik, should I apply that patch on top of the preveous one or can I just apply it to a fresh svn checkout
23:40:55bertrikboghog, you can apply it on a fresh checkout
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23:47:05CIA-2New commit by 03funman (r29658): maze: fix warning spotted by gcc 4.6.0
23:47:05CIA-2New commit by 03funman (r29659): remove set but unused variable
23:47:49CIA-2r29658 build result: All green
23:48:11emohello, i use rockbox on sansa v1, i will use AS2535 SOC chip without internal flash or memory. i will use only micro sd card for voice recording. is it possible?
23:49:05gevaertsemo: which sansa?
23:49:16emosansa fuze v1
23:49:30funm4nit's spelled as3525 not 2535
23:49:37emook sory
23:49:42funm4nsure it's possible
23:49:45gevaertsYou can set where the recordings should go, yes, so you should be able to put them on the microSD card
23:50:45saratogabertrik: that datasheet also uses the same memory controller, interseting to look at it
23:50:48emobut, i will remove internal memory chips.
23:51:03saratogawell then it won't boot
23:51:30emothis device boot on microsd?
23:51:33CIA-2r29659 build result: All green
23:51:56emoit is possible ?
23:52:07funm4nno
23:52:08saratogano
23:53:10 Part ezzieyguywuf
23:53:35emowhy not soc boot on microsd
23:53:51funm4nask sandisk not #rockbox
23:54:00emook thank you
23:54:17 Quit domonoky (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
23:55:55n1sfunm4n: does it build fine without lto?
23:56:10funm4nyes
23:56:24saratogafunm4n: did you set up the MPMC settings?
23:56:38 Quit emo (Quit: CGI:IRC)
23:57:27funm4nmostly took the timings from the OF
23:57:54funm4ni changed a few settings compared to OF iirc

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