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| 03:17:47 | kendell | does anyone know why the voice generation keeps failing? it only seems to work when complexity is set to 7 and quality is set to 7. any other values fail and abort. the reason I keep changing it is because there is some clipping I'm guessing due to the quality. but not sure. |
| 03:21:08 | [Saint] | What OS? |
| 03:22:33 | kendell | oh, sorry. windows 7 64 bit. sandisk sansa fuze v1 if that helps at all |
| 03:38:33 | [Saint] | I believe it's a known issue that voice generation is broken on Windows OS, though I couldn't say why. |
| 03:38:58 | [Saint] | RbUtil's maintainer has been looking into the issue iiuc. |
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| 03:39:49 | kendell | crap. wish there were some documentation? I looked on the wiki but haven't found any. sometimes I can generate voice files but only at very very low quality levels. is there an alternate way to create them? i'd like to use eloquence but so far haven't been able to figure out how |
| 03:47:01 | kendell | tried espeak too, but can't seem to load it. tried selecting the dll, but no dice so far |
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| 04:19:04 | kendell | hmmm, still fails. I thought that would work, oh well, back to wiki |
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| 05:48:46 | kendell | hi all. if a player supports audible files, sueh as my sandisk fuze, can rockbox play them? i didn't see it in the list of coedcs so was just wondering. if I have to use the original firmware I can't, can't see the screen. |
| 05:48:54 | kendell | codecs |
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| 05:59:56 | wtachi | kendell: it's irrelevant whether the original firmware supports it |
| 06:00 |
| 06:00:46 | wtachi | Rockbox doesn't support Audible because it's DRMed |
| 06:00:55 | wtachi | you may be able to find a converter somewhere |
| 06:01:04 | kendell | that's what I thought. |
| 06:01:31 | kendell | oh well. now if only I could figure out how to generate talk voice files. sorry to be a pest, but I'm really stumped. |
| 06:01:45 | kendell | voice files, sorry, not talk clips. I got that one |
| 06:02:03 | wtachi | kendell: no idea, I haven't used them |
| 06:02:33 | kendell | I wish they weren't necessary, but i can't see the screen so it has to talk to me. I can't easily understand the default voice that comes with rockbox |
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| 06:14:17 | [Saint] | why not just download the voice files?seems to me you're going to a lot of effort for little gain. |
| 06:14:33 | [Saint] | kendell: ^ |
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| 06:29:19 | kendell | I will do that from now on. the latest revision has a better voice file then the stable release |
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| 06:29:24 | kendell | imo |
| 06:30:48 | kendell | btw, I'm thinking about getting a replacement mp3 player, the battery in my fuze does not hold a charge and it is non replaceable. should I get another fuze or something else? I relize this is off topic but I don't know which of the players rockbox runs on can still be purchased at walmart. some of them are long out of sail. |
| 06:32:06 | kendell | I know most of the archos line no longer is produced, but the others I'm not sure about |
| 06:33:45 | kendell | mmm, tea's done |
| 06:40:45 | [Saint] | what makes you think the battery is non-replaceable? |
| 06:42:38 | [Saint] | Sansa doesn't offer replacement parts to the general public...but that doesn't make it "non-replaceable" |
| 06:42:41 | kendell | says so in the manual. and on sandisk website |
| 06:43:00 | [Saint] | Right, but that doesn't make it true. |
| 06:43:08 | kendell | ah. so they're lying to make more money. |
| 06:43:14 | [Saint] | you're onto it. |
| 06:43:38 | kendell | I should've caught on to it. so, is tehre some sort of tutorial for replacing the battery? I don't know how to open up the player |
| 06:43:53 | kendell | can't find any screws or bolts |
| 06:44:56 | [Saint] | google "<yourplayername>+teardown" |
| 06:45:09 | kendell | wow. thanks |
| 06:45:16 | kendell | it's that easy? first hit |
| 06:45:39 | kendell | is the plastic cover overt eh display screen replaceable? mine is all beat up, but I think the lcd is fine |
| 06:45:58 | kendell | can't pry it up without popping off the scroll wheel and botton covers |
| 06:46:02 | kendell | button |
| 06:46:46 | [Saint] | There shouldn't be any "prying" needed. |
| 06:47:12 | [Saint] | There's a series of small clips around the edge of the case to be released, and a very tricky ZIF ribon cable. |
| 06:47:36 | [Saint] | it's *very* important to release the ZIF connector, not just rip it out. |
| 06:47:57 | kendell | wow. it's that easy? so where do I get a new plastic cover? sorry, but I can't find one at walmart smiles. they thought I was nuts. uh, nope, we only sell the player. |
| 06:48:51 | [Saint] | Do you specifically need one? Opening the player shouldn't render it harmed. |
| 06:49:18 | [Saint] | I'd suggest buying a broken one of ebay (etc.) for the case. |
| 06:49:24 | [Saint] | but this is sliding offtopic ;) |
| 06:50:34 | kendell | oh. I'l try to keep it on topic. the main question I had is why does rockbox eat up so much battery? mine has dropped thirty percent in less than an hour and it was fully charged? there was a couple of bugs relating to ams 3525 battery performance, but not sure if they can be fixed or if it's my player |
| 06:51:43 | [Saint] | That's a bad battery. |
| 06:52:06 | [Saint] | There's no way Rockbox could use that much power if the battery was in good condition. |
| 06:52:10 | [Saint] | It wouldn't be possible. |
| 06:53:04 | kendell | well, it was kind of in my closet for a couple months dead. could the battery have gotten old? I've had it since october of 2009 |
| 06:53:18 | [Saint] | Hmmm....*perhaps* mpeg video could do it. |
| 06:53:57 | [Saint] | but just listening to audio and browsing menus should make a drop like that. |
| 06:54:09 | [Saint] | *shouldn't, rather |
| 06:54:19 | kendell | i only play mp3's, listen to radio and use the alarm. speaking of which, why is there no voice in the plugins menu? I can go to aps, demos, etc but there are no voice items afterwards? I can't generate talk clips for that section of the UI, I tried |
| 06:54:56 | kendell | just curious, not complaining, as I can't use that section of the player due to no voice prompts |
| 06:55:45 | [Saint] | I'm not certain about that. There's a few places that aren't voiced. Debug menu. playlist viewer, plugins...nio idea why exactly. |
| 06:55:54 | [Saint] | *no |
| 06:56:18 | kendell | I think the debug menu is deliberately not voiced to keep blind people out of it? smiles |
| 06:57:46 | saratoga | debug is probably just because people are lazy, and also because theres a lot of random menus in there that are only on a few devices |
| 06:57:50 | kendell | arg, I can't find those clips. hmmm |
| 06:58:26 | * | wtachi imagines his player saying "gee pee eye oh ay colon zero one..." |
| 06:58:46 | kendell | most of the stuff in there is so technical I can't even comprehend it. I wish manufacturer's were up front about there specks rather than listing proprietary on there data sheets. stupid |
| 06:59:48 | [Saint] | wtachi: The voice is actually pretty good considering ;) |
| 07:00 |
| 07:00:05 | [Saint] | the fact we even have voiced menus is amazing. |
| 07:00:27 | kendell | it's alright. just wish I could use eloquence but as long as I can understand it. and btw your system for installing and updating is about the most straightforward I've seen |
| 07:00:47 | [Saint] | The big brands for a while were under the impression that only sighted people use these players, some still are. |
| 07:00:56 | kendell | I love the voiced menus. it's awesome. and my player never crashes |
| 07:01:13 | kendell | *cough* sony, anyone? |
| 07:01:44 | * | kendell doesn't like sony. proprietary everything, and no rock box. |
| 07:03:30 | kendell | just the other day I went into walmart to get a new mp3 player, and I told the girl I cannot use touchscreen unless it's a sandisk. what'd she do? sell me an RCA that had a touchscreen. hahaha |
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| 08:04:29 | [Saint] | wannabenoh46 wants banning |
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| 08:49:54 | FlynDice | so are the irc logs on the front page borked or am I just special?..... |
| 08:56:18 | bluebroth3r | FlynDice: the irc page is broken for me too, but on the front page? |
| 08:57:26 | FlynDice | well, the link from the front page is what I was getting at... |
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| 09:45:57 | bertrik | Anyone here with a clipv2 suffering from background noise? |
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| 10:06:50 | bluebroth3r | hmm, looks like the "Rb" logo icon doesn't have its svg file in svn. Might be a good idea to commit that, wouldn't it? |
| 10:07:02 | CIA-48 | New commit by bluebrother (r29672): Add capability to speak directly from the TTS engine. ... |
| 10:11:07 | CIA-48 | r29672 build result: All green |
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| 11:23:26 | CIA-48 | New commit by bluebrother (r29673): OS X TTS: add pitch setting. ... |
| 11:26:35 | CIA-48 | r29673 build result: All green |
| 11:27:35 | [Saint] | bluebroth3r: Yes please. |
| 11:27:41 | [Saint] | I've been looking for it. |
| 11:28:04 | [Saint] | iiuc there's only a ~40ish px .png available of it. |
| 11:30:53 | bluebroth3r | [Saint]: it's been available since I worked on it but simply not in svn :) See http://www.alice-dsl.net/dominik.riebeling/rockbox/rockbox-icon.svg |
| 11:31:41 | bluebroth3r | but since that is created from the manual svg it's slightly different to the bitmap version. Don't think that matters much though |
| 11:32:54 | bluebroth3r | since the logo is used in several places (and converted to different formats) it might be a good idea to have some folder holding the original svg graphics? |
| 11:35:17 | [Saint] | yes, indeed. |
| 11:35:40 | [Saint] | cabbie has suffered this fate, although the original images are *around*...they're not in SVN. |
| 11:35:52 | [Saint] | so, authors improvised..and "watered it down". |
| 11:36:19 | bluebroth3r | the cabbie original files are psd though, aren't they? |
| 11:36:26 | [Saint] | yeah :/ |
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| 11:43:32 | bluebroth3r | Rockbox Utiltiy svn binaries updates, if anyone is interested in trying it |
| 11:43:39 | bluebroth3r | s/updates/updated/ |
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| 11:58:47 | kugel | FlynDice, bluebroth3r: opening http://www.rockbox.org/irc/log-today still works |
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| 13:16:51 | bertrik_train_ | AlexP: I've prepared a build at home with all of the little AMSv2 fixes in it. I can commit it tonight and make it part of the 3.8.1 branch. |
| 13:17:12 | bertrik_train_ | *AMSv2 sd card fixes I mean |
| 13:17:17 | AlexP | bertrik_train_: brilliant, thanks |
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| 15:28:28 | gevaerts | JdGordon|: could you have a look at FS #12041? I believe you're more or less familiar with all bits involved |
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| 15:30:04 | JdGordon| | looks fine |
| 15:31:31 | gevaerts | Any opinion on which one is the best? |
| 15:31:45 | gevaerts | Or if we really want the exact old behaviour back? |
| 15:33:15 | kugel | gevaerts: perhaps you can silently slip in scale-on-load as well? :) |
| 15:33:40 | gevaerts | kugel: you can, maybe. I can't :) |
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| 15:39:16 | JdGordon| | gevaerts: i didnt look at the first patch... i guess we want the old system back and we could make it so bmp's outside of /.rockbox/backdrops are not persisted pretty easily |
| 15:39:28 | JdGordon| | just copy the filename to some non-permenant buffer |
| 15:39:39 | * | JdGordon| needs to make that work with .wps/sbs/etc |
| 15:39:53 | JdGordon| | and jpg+scaled loading bmps should be pretty simple to implement |
| 15:41:01 | gevaerts | JdGordon|: but why? |
| 15:41:15 | JdGordon| | why what? |
| 15:41:20 | gevaerts | What are the advantages of the old system, apart from confusing users? |
| 15:41:29 | | Join mshathlonxp [0] (~msh@5acba093.bb.sky.com) |
| 15:41:47 | JdGordon| | I dont know, which is why i didnt really have a problem breaking it |
| 15:41:59 | JdGordon| | and apparntly noone else did either (though there is a bug for it open) |
| 15:42:47 | gevaerts | I suspect this is one of those "historical reasons" things |
| 15:43:38 | AlexP | Either it should persist from everywhere, or should only be settable from the specific directory IMO |
| 15:44:18 | gevaerts | It looks (note: newbie alert!) as if there once was a backdrop setting menu item in the settings menu that worked like all of those other similar settings: pick one from a directory. In that context, the setting stored just the filename, not the full path. As far as I can see, that menu item is gone |
| 15:44:19 | AlexP | I don't care which :) |
| 15:44:49 | gevaerts | And the way things were implemented, adding the context menu item made it work the way it did by accident |
| 15:45:13 | gevaerts | So I suspect there was no particular reasoning behind the old behaviour |
| 15:45:14 | JdGordon| | thats pretty much it... when the config was stored in a hard disk sector we needed to be more carfeul about what we store |
| 15:45:34 | JdGordon| | iirc it was something like 250 bytes total |
| 15:45:51 | JdGordon| | or 500 or so... not enough to waste of full paths |
| 15:46:11 | * | gevaerts nods |
| 15:46:34 | JdGordon| | hmm, you werent around back then were you? |
| 15:46:39 | gevaerts | No |
| 15:46:43 | * | JdGordon| feels like he's been here too long :p |
| 15:47:35 | gevaerts | So I don't really see a good reason to spend effort to reproduce a behaviour that was dictated by a combination of different constraints and luck, and that wasn't actually backed by usability concerns |
| 15:47:44 | AlexP | and is confusing |
| 15:49:34 | AlexP | JdGordon|: We all feel like that too :P |
| 15:49:45 | JdGordon| | gevaerts: the two changes to apps/gui/skin_engine/skin_backdrops.c can be simplified to just sprintf("%s.bmp") because the whole poath will get stored |
| 15:50:06 | gevaerts | JdGordon|: not really, I think |
| 15:50:21 | JdGordon| | actually, you can use global_settings.backdrop_file directly |
| 15:50:24 | gevaerts | I think we want the full path for user-set backdrops, but not for theme-set backdrops |
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| 15:51:40 | JdGordon| | ok, well your settings_list.c change makes it store the full filename (including folder and .bmp) so make sure it works with that :) |
| 15:51:57 | gevaerts | Yes, on setting it |
| 15:52:11 | gevaerts | But as far as I can make out, not on reading |
| 15:52:34 | gevaerts | Well, I mean, on reading it just gives back what's in there |
| 15:52:50 | gevaerts | So hand-crafted theme cfgs still work the old way |
| 15:53:56 | JdGordon| | it should be "backdrop: /.rockbox/backdrops/foo.bmp" in the config |
| 15:54:30 | JdGordon| | indeed it is |
| 15:54:44 | JdGordon| | anywho... i must goto bed |
| 15:55:03 | gevaerts | Yes, after saving from the context menu |
| 15:57:30 | gevaerts | hm, right |
| 15:57:39 | gevaerts | ok |
| 15:57:49 | gevaerts | That does indeed simplify things a bit |
| 15:58:19 | gevaerts | Although I don't understand how this works now then |
| 15:58:58 | gevaerts | It reads the full path from the file, strips bits off, stores just the basename of the file, and then re-adds things when loading? |
| 16:00 |
| 16:00:41 | kugel | my plan for buflib currently: a) get rid of all direct audiobuf accesses (e.g. the tempbuf in tagcache), b) implement some callback mechanism for buflib, c) replace buffer_alloc() with buflib_alloc() in all places without compaction, d) enable compaction. I think d) will cause some pretty interesting problems |
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| 16:01:22 | kugel | also I think I should write some test cases for buflib |
| 16:01:52 | gevaerts | d) is the most interesting one, yes. The rest is mainly tedious search and replace I think |
| 16:01:54 | JdGordon| | gevaerts: curently it strips off because "we" want to save ram usage in global_settings |
| 16:02:30 | * | JdGordon| has a patch somewhere to stick a lock on the audiobuffer pointer |
| 16:03:24 | gevaerts | JdGordon|: right. But it's replaced by at least the same in code, which on most players doesn't make it a gain :) |
| 16:04:29 | CIA-48 | New commit by bluebrother (r29674): Properly remove the configuration dialog. ... |
| 16:04:56 | kugel | e) could be to make buffering maximize it's buffer on rebuffering (in case something was buflib_free()d in the meantime) |
| 16:05:28 | JdGordon| | gevaerts: yes, artifact of ancient handling... |
| 16:05:37 | JdGordon| | really going to bed now |
| 16:05:54 | kugel | or generally delay compaction until the next rebuffer |
| 16:05:55 | * | gevaerts will test the new patch before he uploads it |
| 16:06:28 | gevaerts | kugel: I'm not entirely convinced that the audio buffer has to know about compaction |
| 16:07:33 | kugel | but you need stop playback before compaction if the audio buffer moves |
| 16:07:42 | gevaerts | Then don't move it! :) |
| 16:08:03 | CIA-48 | r29674 build result: All green |
| 16:08:12 | * | gevaerts will try to get his thoughts clear enough to explain... |
| 16:09:11 | gevaerts | What you basically *can't* do is give away the bit of audio buffer that's in use, or nearly in use. I'll call that the working set from here on |
| 16:09:26 | kugel | well, since it's a ring buffer, we could possible benefit from new space in the front without moving data |
| 16:11:21 | kugel | gevaerts: but we want to reclaim unused space, no? |
| 16:11:31 | gevaerts | bah, this really needs pictures! |
| 16:12:25 | gevaerts | I suspect that "reclaim on next rebuffer" is good enough |
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| 16:12:56 | gevaerts | At least if things aren't constantly allocating and deallocating |
| 16:13:22 | gevaerts | hm |
| 16:13:54 | gevaerts | Well, that's the case in my views on the thing anyway, which also includes how you allocate |
| 16:14:51 | gevaerts | hrm |
| 16:17:10 | gevaerts | A simplified view of what I would do (it has some obvious flaws...) is to allocate from the right (imagine a whiteboard here) and keep the audio buffer aligned to the left. Assume for the moment that the working set will always be somewhere to the left (flawed idea, but that's for later) |
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| 16:17:42 | gevaerts | This means that when you allocate a buffer, the end of the audio buffer just gets adjusted, nothing more has to happen |
| 16:18:32 | gevaerts | And when you deallocate, you may have to run your compaction routine, but again, it doesn't touch the audio buffer apart from moving the end |
| 16:18:37 | kugel | buflib uses the end of the buffer for a lookup table, for fast handle->pointer conversion |
| 16:19:36 | kugel | plus, since audio buffer is a ring buffer, its start and end move over time so allocating from the end isn't as easy as it looks like |
| 16:19:49 | gevaerts | That's why I said that was flawed :) |
| 16:20:07 | gevaerts | I'd say that at first a fixed lookup table may well be fine |
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| 16:21:43 | kugel | I suspect a-c) can be done pretty easily in a few weeks, but getting compaction right will be troublesome and take a lot of time |
| 16:22:24 | gevaerts | The way I though of to fix the "what if the working set overlaps?" issue is to just allocate from both sides, and pick the one side that *doesn't* overlap |
| 16:22:47 | gevaerts | That only breaks if the working set gets too big, and I don't know if that can happen |
| 16:24:13 | kugel | the working set can be in the middle of the audio buffer, with valid allocations at the start and end |
| 16:24:44 | gevaerts | yes |
| 16:25:30 | gevaerts | Is that a problem, apart from limiting the amount you can allocate in total? |
| 16:25:54 | kugel | you mean to allocate from the middle in such a case? |
| 16:26:14 | gevaerts | no |
| 16:26:26 | gevaerts | That would split the audio buffer, which would be awkward |
| 16:27:22 | gevaerts | What I'm saying is that if the working set is in a position that prevents allocating from both the left and the right, you can't allocate. I haven't worked out the numbers, but I'd say that this shouldn't happen anyway |
| 16:29:51 | gevaerts | The biggest working set that can happen is probably wav on a slow disk, let's say 5 seconds at 176K/second, or about 800K |
| 16:31:16 | gevaerts | I suspect that this means that as soon as you have only twice that, you may not be able to allocate, so say 1.6MB |
| 16:31:45 | gevaerts | Now disk targets (apart from the Archoses, but those don't do wav) all have 16MB or more IIRC. If you only have 1.6MB audio buffer left, you have to wonder what you've been doing... |
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| 16:32:46 | gevaerts | For mp3 (i.e. archoses) the maximum would be 320kbps * 5 seconds, or 200kb, again *2 to handle both sides, so 400kb |
| 16:33:07 | gevaerts | And again, I'd say that going that low isn't realistic anyway |
| 16:33:13 | | Join MethoS- [0] (~clemens@134.102.106.250) |
| 16:33:23 | gevaerts | And on flash, you don't need anywhere near those 5s |
| 16:34:06 | gevaerts | Well, there's the antiskip buffer too of course |
| 16:34:21 | gevaerts | But again, it's a tradeoff |
| 16:34:34 | gevaerts | And you'll need to refuse new allocations at some point anyway |
| 16:35:14 | gevaerts | Now it's of course entirely possible that there are some flaws in there that I haven't thought of... |
| 16:35:17 | kugel | I thought allocations should always succeed, by stopping playback |
| 16:35:34 | gevaerts | That's the other option |
| 16:35:44 | gevaerts | And you can still do that |
| 16:36:02 | gevaerts | But avoiding that when it's not needed is good :) |
| 16:36:43 | gevaerts | But seriously, I suspect that those numbers are really near the minimum needed to have working playback *anyway& |
| 16:39:32 | gevaerts | hm |
| 16:39:53 | AlexP | gevaerts: Maybe you should implement it to see if it works? :) |
| 16:40:02 | kugel | I think optimizing allocations to not need playback stopping is something for the end of the project :) |
| 16:40:16 | gevaerts | kugel: I don't really agree |
| 16:40:24 | gevaerts | Sure, if you can get away with it |
| 16:40:38 | kugel | generally we don't do new allocations after boot, so they are really rare |
| 16:40:39 | gevaerts | But if you have to rewrite the entire allocation thing, that's not ideal |
| 16:41:00 | gevaerts | We don't, because we're rather generous with the initial allocations |
| 16:42:31 | kugel | buflib can't do most of the things you propose too |
| 16:42:50 | gevaerts | But if you look at e.g. language files, German is half the size of the allocated buffer |
| 16:43:01 | gevaerts | True |
| 16:43:10 | gevaerts | But I don't see that as a good reason not to want it |
| 16:43:42 | kugel | then buflib needs to know of the internals of playback&buffering |
| 16:44:43 | gevaerts | Does it? It needs to know which bits have to be left alone if at all possible |
| 16:44:51 | gevaerts | I don't see it needing much more |
| 16:45:33 | kugel | I'm unsure if I fully understand your proposal |
| 16:45:47 | | Quit sirrozha (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 16:45:54 | gevaerts | Well, I'm not sure if I fully understand it myself :) I think it works, but... |
| 16:47:46 | kugel | I think it's the average case that buffering has valid allocations on both start and end of the audio buffer |
| 16:47:57 | gevaerts | valid, or needed? |
| 16:48:25 | kugel | valid |
| 16:48:33 | gevaerts | right |
| 16:48:48 | gevaerts | Yes, you also need to tell playback about what you ended up doing |
| 16:49:29 | kugel | so you propose to make playback/buffering discard all allocations which are X seconds of audio away? |
| 16:50:53 | gevaerts | Well, not entirely. |
| 16:52:13 | gevaerts | We're going to steal valid data, and tell playback/buffering about that. This valid data may be at the end of the logical buffer, in which case not much will get dropped at all |
| 16:53:09 | gevaerts | And yes, we may want to try to optimise for that, which would mean asking more data from buffering :) |
| 16:53:40 | gevaerts | hrm |
| 16:53:49 | gevaerts | There's one more issue in the long term |
| 16:53:57 | kugel | I thought buflib would be in firmware/, in which case we can't just ask buffering for data |
| 16:54:27 | gevaerts | buffering would register callbacks in that case |
| 16:55:10 | gevaerts | If we end up also having relocatable plugins, there's a problem. While relocatable code can be loaded anywhere, it's not really feasible to move it after loading |
| 16:56:32 | wtachi | this could easily turn into a research project on new kinds of malloc()... |
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| 16:56:50 | kugel | yes, we are going to need to mark some allocations as unmoveble, and delay compaction until it's freed |
| 16:59:21 | * | gevaerts nods |
| 16:59:53 | gevaerts | I'd like to see some simulations of what this would mean though, before the actual implementation starts |
| 17:00 |
| 17:00:28 | kugel | that actually doesn't mean compaction need to be delayed; just that these blocks must not be moved. and new allocations can go into possible wholes in the meantime |
| 17:00:36 | gevaerts | I mean, delaying compaction is all very nice, but if it means the system will lock up in some common cases, it's not good enough :) |
| 17:00:41 | gevaerts | yes |
| 17:01:24 | gevaerts | Oh, there's one more case that should be taken into account I think, especially in the "don't stop playback" case |
| 17:02:22 | | Quit MethoS- (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 17:02:39 | gevaerts | Currently the codec buffer is rather large, wasting a huge amount of space for some codecs (WAV doesn't need 1MB to decode), while still not being quite enough for some files (there was a report of some vorbis files not playing due to this last month) |
| 17:03:08 | kugel | and you want to optimize for "don't stop playback" from the beginning? I'd rather do it at the end, when all other compaction induced problems are fixed |
| 17:03:11 | gevaerts | Having codec data allocated on the buffer would provide a nice way to help here, *but* codecs do have real-time needs |
| 17:03:30 | kugel | audio buffer is probably not the only area where compaction is going to be tricky |
| 17:04:08 | gevaerts | Not "optimise for", no. I do think that you need to think about it from the start though, or you risk getting a system that can't do non-stop at all |
| 17:04:41 | n1s | gevaerts: ogg vorbis files can basically use limitless amounts of memory (although limited to 32 bit addressing iirc) the format sucks that way |
| 17:05:54 | gevaerts | n1s: yes, that's how I understood it |
| 17:07:26 | | Quit Bagder (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 17:07:43 | gevaerts | If you can make the buffering code handle a fragmented buffer, that would help a lot I guess |
| 17:08:34 | * | gevaerts looks forward to reading kugel's detailed proposal :) |
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| 17:11:50 | kugel | :/ |
| 17:14:05 | | Join num1 [0] (~num1@unaffiliated/num1) |
| 17:15:53 | gevaerts | kugel: I'm not saying the proposal should solve all issues, but I think it should at least try to list the various problems and have a general idea on how to solve them (or which ones will not be solved, and why that's not a blocker) |
| 17:17:03 | num1 | new.rockbox.org links to new.rockbox.org/mail/ , a website that returns an "Internal Server Error," instead of linking to www.rockbox.org/mail, a website which works. |
| 17:17:42 | AlexP | new.rockbox.org is an experiment which isn't intended to work |
| 17:17:47 | AlexP | How did you get there? |
| 17:18:12 | num1 | AlexP, http://duckduckgo.com/?q=rockbox |
| 17:18:55 | AlexP | what is that, a search engine? |
| 17:18:59 | num1 | I tried to use rockbox.org and it timed out on me (it's working now) so I tried the link to new.rockbox.org next. |
| 17:19:03 | num1 | yeah it's a search engine |
| 17:19:14 | AlexP | well, not much we can do about it then |
| 17:19:27 | num1 | that would make sense then that it's not supposed to work. thaks |
| 17:19:31 | num1 | thanks* |
| 17:19:35 | AlexP | no worries |
| 17:19:55 | AlexP | It is slightly unfortunate that people can get pointed there, but never mind |
| 17:22:14 | * | pixelma seems to be too stupid to find out which URL is needed to actually checkout the connectbot source |
| 17:22:45 | pixelma | oops, sorry. Wrong channel |
| 17:23:42 | num1 | oo I just noticed rockbox.org uses ipv6, thank you for doing "the right thing" ! |
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| 18:00 |
| 18:21:48 | Leif | Is Austin Appel in the room? |
| 18:22:37 | | Quit Judas_PhD (Read error: Operation timed out) |
| 18:23:34 | AlexP | Leif: That is scorche |
| 18:24:07 | | Join panni_ [0] (hannes@ip-178-203-73-7.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 18:24:26 | Leif | AlexP, Thanks |
| 18:25:08 | AlexP | Leif: Is it about your proposal? |
| 18:25:15 | Leif | AlexP, Yes |
| 18:25:19 | AlexP | PM? |
| 18:25:34 | Leif | AlexP, Okay |
| 18:25:40 | Leif | (You as well?) |
| 18:25:52 | AlexP | I meant I'm going to PM you :) |
| 18:25:56 | Leif | Oh, okay |
| 18:28:56 | AlexP | bagder or zagor - a news item that we have been accepted for GSoC might be a good idea :) |
| 18:29:16 | | Quit pamaury (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 18:35:11 | | Join wodz [0] (~wodz@87-206-240-131.dynamic.chello.pl) |
| 18:35:52 | wodz | I have problems accessing irc logs - is it known issue? |
| 18:35:59 | n1s | yes |
| 18:36:16 | wodz | too bad |
| 18:36:32 | kugel | wodz: http://www.rockbox.org/irc/log-today works |
| 18:36:34 | n1s | the webpage is gone but the actual logfiles are still available |
| 18:37:48 | n1s | http://www.rockbox.org/irc/log-20110402 for example |
| 18:38:06 | wodz | I am reading about how irqs are serviced on arm and I don't understand if I have to do something special on returning from ISR or not |
| 18:39:30 | Torne | on which ARM version? |
| 18:40:13 | Torne | traditionally you return with subs pc, lr, #4 |
| 18:40:52 | wodz | Torne: and this reenables irqs right? |
| 18:41:18 | Torne | it drops the value in spsr_irq back into cpsr |
| 18:41:50 | Torne | it doesn't explicitly reenable irqs, but presumably if it took one the saved value has them enabled :) |
| 18:42:16 | wodz | I see, that's what I was missing |
| 18:42:29 | Torne | any ALU op with target PC and the set bit set also restores cpsr from spsr |
| 18:42:54 | Torne | and on entry to irq the link register value is off by four |
| 18:43:36 | wodz | yes this shift is explicitly stated |
| 18:43:49 | Torne | so you need to fix it by four at some point, and put it back into pc with the S bit enabled. you can do it all at once with subs pc, lr, #4, or if you had a more complicated interrupt handler that switches mode, or whatever, you can do them independantly |
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| 18:47:41 | Ayla | and how can you switch modes? AFAIK when you are on IRQ mode you can't set the bits on the cpsr to change the mode... Is there a trick for that? |
| 18:49:07 | Torne | you can change mode any time |
| 18:49:26 | Torne | no trick |
| 18:50:07 | Ayla | so you can change the mode from IRQ to supervisor just by writing the cpsr? I remember there was some protected bits it's impossible to write unless you're on the supervisor mode |
| 18:50:13 | | Quit TheLemonMan (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 18:50:13 | | Quit T44 (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 18:50:32 | Torne | all modes otehr than user are privileged modes |
| 18:51:04 | Torne | there is nothing special about supervisor mode except that it uses the "svc" banked registers for r13, r14 and spsr |
| 18:51:15 | Torne | all the other modes have the same abilities. |
| 18:51:31 | Ayla | ok |
| 19:00 |
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| 19:41:23 | jvoisin | hi, I'm a fench student, and i'm intrested in the GSoc |
| 19:42:12 | AlexP | cool, which project? |
| 19:42:22 | jvoisin | "Clean up the radio code" |
| 19:43:14 | AlexP | OK, do you have any experience with Rockbox? |
| 19:44:27 | jvoisin | I'm using it since 4-5 years |
| 19:44:39 | jvoisin | I have read some code |
| 19:44:43 | AlexP | good |
| 19:44:47 | AlexP | *a good start :) |
| 19:44:58 | jvoisin | But I never contributed :/ |
| 19:45:17 | AlexP | That's OK, new blood is always welcome :) |
| 19:46:31 | AlexP | I think bertrik might be good to discuss this with, he has done some radio work IIRC |
| 19:46:44 | | Quit BHSPitMonkey (Quit: Ex-Chat) |
| 19:46:50 | jvoisin | I don't have any exeperience in embedded devices : will it be a problem ? |
| 19:47:22 | gevaerts | Do you have some experience with C? |
| 19:47:29 | jvoisin | yes |
| 19:47:54 | gevaerts | That should be fine then |
| 19:47:57 | jvoisin | I'm not a master, but I can produce code |
| 19:48:50 | gevaerts | Rockbox isn't the sort if embedded where everything has to fit in 512 bytes or so. We do care about code size and efficiency, but I think it's merely a matter of getting used to it |
| 19:49:10 | AlexP | Bagder: Could you pop up a we are in GSoC news item on the front page when you get a minute? |
| 19:49:38 | AlexP | Oh, and http://www.rockbox.org/irc/ is broken :) |
| 19:50:15 | | Join Zagor [0] (~bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor) |
| 19:50:26 | Ayla | is there a way to specify the toolchain to use when building the SDL application? Or should I manually edit the makefile generated from tools/configure? |
| 19:51:46 | n1s | Ayla: what do you want to do? |
| 19:53:16 | Ayla | n1s, I'd like to compile rockbox as a SDL application for a mipsel-linux system |
| 19:54:37 | n1s | configure for the sdl application is only set up for native compiles afaik so you will probably need to hack up the makefiles a bit, yes, i think we have a crosscompiled RaaA target that uses sdl but don't remember which |
| 19:55:05 | Ayla | allright |
| 19:55:12 | Bagder | Zagor: http://www.rockbox.org/irc/ is broken apparently |
| 19:55:36 | Zagor | oh |
| 19:56:50 | Zagor | fixed |
| 20:00 |
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| 20:06:43 | | Quit slooopy (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 20:12:15 | hex__ | wait, does rockbox work on sansa fuze v2? |
| 20:13:45 | jvoisin | hex__: by fuzev2, you mean fuze+ ? |
| 20:14:14 | hex__ | no, version 2 |
| 20:14:42 | gevaerts | hex__: yes |
| 20:14:56 | AlexP | jvoisin: There is a fuzev1, fuzev2 and fuze+ |
| 20:15:38 | | Quit TheSeven (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 20:16:25 | hex__ | what is the chance of ruining your sansa (failure rate) |
| 20:16:33 | gevaerts | And probably soon the fuze+v2 :) |
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| 21:00 |
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| 21:09:49 | hex__ | can rockbox play video files? |
| 21:10:20 | LambdaCalculus37 | Yes, Rockbox can play MPEG1 and MPEG2 video files with MP3 audio. |
| 21:10:39 | tguinot | http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/PluginMpegplayer |
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| 21:13:30 | Ayla | allright, I have the welcome image of rockbox on my dingoo A320 screen :) |
| 21:13:52 | | Join cooper29 [0] (~uggh@h133.221.17.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net) |
| 21:14:01 | gevaerts | Nice! |
| 21:14:11 | hex__ | why can't I see any video or music files in the file browser? |
| 21:14:11 | LambdaCalculus37 | Ayla: Picture, please! |
| 21:14:34 | LambdaCalculus37 | hex__: Is your Show Files setting set to "All" or "Supported"? |
| 21:14:37 | gevaerts | hex__: maybe you accidentally changed the "Show files" option |
| 21:14:41 | Ayla | I can take a screenshot |
| 21:15:02 | Ayla | I didn't configure controls right now, so I can't do anything |
| 21:15:11 | Ayla | plus, some plugins failed to build |
| 21:15:15 | Ayla | but I guess that's a good start |
| 21:16:12 | hex__ | I have it set to all files, but it still shows nothing |
| 21:16:14 | | Quit Xerion (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 21:16:34 | gevaerts | Ayla: don't worry too much about the plugins at first |
| 21:16:48 | AlexP | hex__: How did you copy them over? |
| 21:18:14 | * | bluebroth3r slaps forehead |
| 21:19:10 | hex__ | oh I see, it is in a folder called ##music## |
| 21:19:26 | hex__ | and how do i see .avi files? |
| 21:19:31 | AlexP | You don't |
| 21:19:43 | bluebroth3r | you convert them |
| 21:19:45 | AlexP | LambdaCalculus37 just said that Rockbox supports mpeg1 and mpeg2 video only |
| 21:19:58 | AlexP | hex__: And you can copy the music to wherever you want |
| 21:21:07 | Ayla | and here is the screenshot: http://www.crapouillou.net/~paul/screenshot33.png |
| 21:21:36 | hex__ | yes alexp, i can |
| 21:21:49 | AlexP | you can what? |
| 21:22:14 | hex__ | i can copy music where ever i want |
| 21:22:36 | AlexP | Right, so you therefore know where to find them |
| 21:22:42 | hex__ | yes |
| 21:23:00 | AlexP | If they are in the ##msuic## folder it is only because you or the OF put them there, nothing to do with Rockbox |
| 21:23:23 | gevaerts | Ayla: does it go any further than that screen yet? If not, you probably have thread issues |
| 21:23:28 | | Quit Stummi (Quit: Bye!) |
| 21:23:51 | hex__ | besides that, does anyone have a good converting tool? |
| 21:24:05 | AlexP | for converting...? |
| 21:24:09 | AlexP | videos? |
| 21:24:13 | AlexP | Try winff |
| 21:24:14 | hex__ | yes |
| 21:24:15 | Ayla | gevaerts, it should update to a new screen? |
| 21:24:37 | hex__ | ok, i'll just go to my virtual windows machine... |
| 21:24:40 | gevaerts | Ayla: yes, you should get to the menu screen after a few seconds at most |
| 21:24:48 | AlexP | hex__: why? |
| 21:24:57 | gevaerts | Ayla: try running configure with −−sdl-threads |
| 21:25:21 | Ayla | ok |
| 21:25:45 | hex__ | AlexP: I'm using linux and I don't want to be bothered by putting programs on it |
| 21:25:55 | AlexP | er, OK... |
| 21:26:23 | * | bluebroth3r has expandable inline settings for TTS and encoder working :) |
| 21:26:57 | bluebroth3r | what do people think about that? Instead of having a separate window for that configuration? |
| 21:28:03 | hex__ | is rockbox based on linux by any chance? |
| 21:28:08 | AlexP | no |
| 21:28:15 | hex__ | oh. |
| 21:28:23 | AlexP | It isn't based on anything |
| 21:28:31 | AlexP | It is built from scratch |
| 21:28:41 | hex__ | I know... |
| 21:28:48 | AlexP | So why ask then? |
| 21:28:54 | bluebroth3r | it is based on recycled bits :P |
| 21:28:58 | AlexP | built from scratch != based on linux |
| 21:29:11 | hex__ | =? |
| 21:29:22 | | Join domonoky [0] (~Domonoky@rockbox/developer/domonoky) |
| 21:29:27 | AlexP | If it is built from scratch then it can't be based on linux by definition |
| 21:29:28 | hex__ | =! =>:O |
| 21:29:42 | AlexP | So if you know it is built from scratch then why ask if it is based on linux? |
| 21:29:47 | Leif | I thought rockbox used a few bits from uclinix, which also used little bits of linux in it... |
| 21:30:24 | gevaerts | I think we got our original strcpy from linux, but that got replaced |
| 21:30:36 | Leif | Oh, okay |
| 21:30:44 | Ayla | gevaerts, there's no such thing on the configure, there's a −−no-sdl-threads instead |
| 21:30:58 | Ayla | ah crap. forget about it |
| 21:31:02 | gevaerts | Ayla: weird. configure −−help says there is |
| 21:31:03 | Ayla | It's right above |
| 21:31:04 | AlexP | http://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2008/11/28/rockbox-is-not-linux/ |
| 21:31:46 | | Quit GeekShadow (Quit: The cake is a lie !) |
| 21:31:55 | Leif | nice. |
| 21:32:35 | gevaerts | Ayla: anyway, −−sdl-threads will use SDL threads, which wrap pthreads, so that should work anywhere. The −−no-sdl-threads one (which is default) uses our own context switching mechanism, which I suspect nobody ever tested on MIPS for the application code |
| 21:32:36 | hex__ | wouldn't it be horrendous if microsoft somehow gained control of rockbox? |
| 21:32:57 | * | Leif doesn't think they would ever really care. |
| 21:33:33 | gevaerts | hex__: you mean, like if they buy out all of us? |
| 21:33:50 | * | gevaerts considers the likelyhood of this to be quite remote |
| 21:34:00 | AlexP | hex__: It'd also be terrible if the planet exploded |
| 21:34:07 | AlexP | But why worry about either? |
| 21:34:22 | | Quit benedikt93 (Quit: "Nothing is true, everything is permitted") |
| 21:34:51 | bluebroth3r | domonoky: thoughts? http://www.alice-dsl.net/dominik.riebeling/rockbox/rbutil-tts-options-inline.jpg |
| 21:35:31 | domonoky | bluebroth3r: good idea |
| 21:36:25 | bluebroth3r | ok, then I need to fix the missing functionality and clean up the code. Currently it's somewhat hacked in to only show the UI part |
| 21:36:59 | | Quit hex__ (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 21:37:17 | | Quit soap (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 21:37:53 | Ayla | gevaerts: allright, it works with −−sdl-threads |
| 21:38:06 | gevaerts | Ayla: excellent! |
| 21:38:07 | Ayla | I now have a menu with "Files", "Database" ... |
| 21:38:46 | | Part num1 ("Ex-Chat") |
| 21:38:48 | gevaerts | You lose some performance compared to our own threading, but performance doesn't buy you much if it doesn't work :) |
| 21:38:56 | Ayla | looks like there are some tiny rendering issues, it's flickering a bit |
| 21:38:59 | Ayla | yes, indeed :) |
| 21:42:30 | Ayla | hmm, it segfaults after a Ctrl-C |
| 21:53:43 | Ayla | where can I configure the controls? |
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| 21:56:26 | gevaerts | Ayla: maybe have a look at FS #12027 for another recent application port-in-progress that uses sdl. That should provide some hints on what to change |
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| 21:58:52 | Ayla | ok, thank you |
| 21:59:11 | hex__ | does anybody have a driver for the sansa fuze for windows xp? |
| 21:59:31 | Ayla | zipit z2, nice :) |
| 21:59:56 | gevaerts | hex__: set the fuze to use msc |
| 22:00 |
| 22:00:06 | hex__ | ok... |
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| 22:21:33 | hex__ | my windows xp virtual machine will only accept mtp |
| 22:22:45 | hex__ | I NEED A DRIVER FOR SANSA FUZE (yelling) |
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| 22:24:04 | AlexP | hex__: Then your VM is broken |
| 22:25:28 | Ayla | hmm, it looks like rockbox expects the key codes reserved for touchscreens (like BUTTON_TOPLEFT...) even if it has been compiled without HAVE_TOUCHSCREEN, is that its normal behaviour? |
| 22:25:50 | hex__ | my vm is NOT broken |
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| 22:27:31 | AlexP | OK, sure |
| 22:27:41 | AlexP | Either way we don't have the driver, go and ask Sandisk |
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| 23:54:22 | CIA-48 | New commit by bagder (r29675): push for gsoc2011 |
| 23:57:43 | | Quit funman_ (Quit: leaving) |
| 23:57:50 | Bagder | front page update |
| 23:57:51 | Bagder | d |
| 23:58:05 | gevaerts | Yay! |
| 23:58:28 | AlexP | nice, cheers |
| 23:58:59 | | Quit kevku (Read error: Operation timed out) |
icon identifies that the person is a core developer (has commit access).