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#rockbox log for 2011-05-04

00:02:23 Quit stripwax (Quit: http://miranda-im.org)
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00:07:22 Join Topy44 [0] (~Topy44@f048200081.adsl.alicedsl.de)
00:11:50n1sbluebrother: headphones_inserted is called in the button tick so should be checked every tick
00:12:44n1sbut it seems there's some kind of timeout there, yes
00:15:47n1syeah, afaict there's a 1 sec timeout before sending the event after a hp plugged state change is detected
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00:20:17*sideral can now auto-sync track-played status back to his podcatcher −− yay!
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00:27:22sideralSaint: I have implemented a logical-or operator for tagnavi conditionals. Would you have any use for this, and would you be willing to test this?
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00:30:50sideralI'm using it for a database view to list unfinished podcasts (either unplayed, or played and not completed)
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02:50:58pixelmabluebrother: headphone detection lags a bit on my phone at least with other apps too
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06:12:40[Saint]sideral: (logs) I wouldn't have any use for it personally, as approximately 99% of my media I either listen to start to finish, or don't really care if there's no resume point. The other 1% would be video files, and that already gives me an option to start where I left off.
06:13:41[Saint]I do however remember a guy in the forums that seemed shocked that there *wasn't* a way to do logical or via tagnavi...so, apparebtly there's at least one other person that would find it useful ;)
06:14:31[Saint]I'm bad for this type of thing, as I haven't used a single bit of the fancy resume/bookmarking options we have, ever.
06:16:12*JdGordon prods [Saint] about the tablet cabbie :)
06:16:46[Saint]Yeah, you're not wrong to do so...I need to get all this theme stuff wrapped up ;)
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07:02:43 Join Simon818 [0] (~MirandaIM@d154-20-81-182.bchsia.telus.net)
07:07:12Simon818I'm wondering if there are any blind users here? It seems as though accessibility is in a bit of a bad state in the latest rockbox utility release, and I'm not sure how to go about notifying the appropriate people, or even if this is a known issue. My screen reader, NVDA, is very simply not reading any of the controls in the window. Only their labels.
07:08:23JdGordonyou need to talk to bluebrother
07:08:47JdGordon(he probably wont be around for a few hours still_
07:08:50Simon818I'm also trying to puzzle out the inner workings of the encoding system for self-created voice files; the ones I've created now are very low quality compared to the actual speech synthesizer, and I'm not sure how to fix this. Perhaps this would be better directed to the same individual.
07:09:22Simon818Ok. I will keep an eye on this channel, so to speak.
07:11:56Simon818Does bluebrother generally respond to highlights in this channel, or should I just wait until I see an actual message here?
07:12:14JdGordongenerally we all respong to hilights, eventually
07:12:35Simon818yeah, makes sense. Well, I'll just leave this thing logged in, and see what happens.
07:12:36Simon818And thanks.
07:25:04pixelmajessicaue0 needs a ban in the forums
07:29:53JoshuaChangwho?why?
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07:35:08JdGordonpixelma: done
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08:12:02CIA-87New commit by 03Buschel (r29820): Fix last known 'variable set but not used' warning reported from GCC 4.6.0.
08:15:48CIA-87r29820 build result: All green
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08:33:50bluebrotherSimon818: there seems to be a problem with accessibility support in Qt with my current build setup. It's not a Rockbox Utility issue by itself
08:34:34Simon818bluebrother: Ugh. QT is great at breaking accessibility like that. Is there anything that can be done about this? It's completely unusable to me now.
08:35:03bluebrotherB4gder: can you push http://www.alice-dsl.net/dominik.riebeling/rockbox/rbutil/RockboxUtility-v1.2.9-1.zip to the download server? I've rebuilt it with a different setup which should fix make accessibility work
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08:35:35bluebrotherSimon818: it's not a Qt issue either. I'm using mingw-cross-env to build the Windows version on Linux, in the past I've used a Windows machine for that.
08:36:00bluebrotherand it seems that build of Qt has a problem there. But since that setup is not supported by Nokia I can't blame it on Qt.
08:36:22bluebrotherSimon818: try the link I've just posted. I've rebuilt it on the old setup.
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08:37:07bluebrothereventually I'd like to kill that setup though, so I need to figure what went wrong when cross compiling Qt. Since I haven't found any other issues this somewhat surprises me. Doesn't make it any better though :)
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08:40:10Simon818bluebrother: Where did you post this link?
08:40:40bluebrotherSimon818: a few minutes earlier in this channel
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08:40:45bluebrotherSimon818: http://www.alice-dsl.net/dominik.riebeling/rockbox/rbutil/RockboxUtility-v1.2.9-1.zip
08:42:59Simon818bluebrother: Hey. I'm about to go to bed, but it looks like it works. Thanks a lot for that. I will fix things tomorrow.
08:43:33bluebrotherSimon818: you're welcome. I need to leave for work now :)
08:43:42JoshuaChangdoes mips based cpu support long long type?
08:43:48Simon818also, would you mind giving me the proper encoder settings to create 22khz talk files, instead of having them create in a low quality format
08:44:35sideralSaint: Thanks for your comments! I found the old forum threads. Seems like the consensus in 2007 was that tagnavi logical-or would be a resource hog and extremely difficult to implement. Well... no it wasn't :) FS #12095
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09:29:28[Saint]sideral: Hmmm....well, that's even better then ;)
09:29:56[Saint]The thread I was talking about was (possibly dug up by someone?) actually fairly recent.
09:30:43[Saint]Though, I can't find it on the forums myself...I do remember someone wanting to edit their tagnavi for a specific instance and deciding he couldn't do what he wanted because he needed exactly this.
09:31:11sideralI found 3 threads, the newest one being from July 2007
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09:31:32[Saint]Was that the OP, or the last post?
09:31:38siderallast post
09:32:04[Saint]Hmmm...I haven't even been around that long, so, I must be failing my search-fu ;)
09:33:30sideralI'm considering replying to one of these threads (the one where the OP author is still active) :)
09:34:29rasherkugel: Have you seen FS #12080 ? Seems pretty simple
09:34:44rasherkugel: Support for scrobbledroid api
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09:40:45sideralSaint: Google turns up a mailing-list posting by myself in the GSoC 2011 context −− maybe you meant that?
09:42:33[Saint]http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=26910.0 is the one I was thinking about...I *think*.
09:42:52[Saint]I seem to remember there being replies to the thread though...perhaps that's not it.
09:43:26[Saint]sideral: ^
09:43:27sideralAh, I didn't find this one :)
09:43:59*[Saint] googled "forums.rockbox.org+logical or" ;)
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09:49:36JoshuaChangseems the crossfeed fx was muted in onda 7x7 build
09:57:53 Part Simon818 ("I'm a happy Miranda IM user! Get it here: http://miranda-im.org")
10:00
10:05:04***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:05:34JdGordonrasher: patch looks fine, I see no reaosn to not commit it
10:05:52JdGordonassuming it handles scrobbledroid not being installed fine
10:16:56kugelit's fine if it works, but I hope we don't need such a patch for each and every scrobbler app out there?
10:17:20LloreanDoes that mean it'll scrobble even if you have scrobbling off?
10:17:36LloreanI mean, I don't know why you'd have the scrobbler app installed, but not want to.
10:17:38JdGordonyes
10:17:48kugelthis one doesn't follow the setting yes
10:17:53JdGordonwith this you'd actually want to disable scrobbling in rockbox
10:17:53LloreanBut it seems like it should respect the current setting (and if the app can confirm reception of the scrobbling, not write it to the log file)
10:19:35[Saint]I also agree with "I hope we don'e need to support every scrobbler app that comes along"...
10:19:35JdGordonseems pointless complexity
10:19:42[Saint]This could be the doorway to that.
10:19:47JdGordonno it isnt
10:19:52LloreanJdGordon: In that context, the current option to turn off scrobbling is a needless complexity.
10:19:55JdGordonwe support *this one* and thats it
10:20:21JdGordonLlorean: it defaults to off, and sure, we could remove scrobble support from the raaaoa build
10:20:24[Saint]and, if a "better" one comes along?
10:20:25LloreanI'd imagine future scrobbling apps would hopefully choose to listen for this broadcast so that they can just say "works as a good replacement for (whatever this one is called)"
10:20:29kugel"but why can't we support *the other one* as well?"
10:20:34[Saint]What's so bad about Rockbox's scrobbling?
10:20:39[Saint]Can it not be improved?
10:20:42Bagderwe don't use to solve future problems now
10:20:47Llorean[Saint]: This one handles upload, etc, for you.
10:20:54Bagderlet's fix the current problem now, then deal with the future in the future
10:20:56[Saint]bah.
10:20:59LloreanBut I still think we need to preserve the existing option to say "stop scrobbling"
10:21:17[Saint]Doesn't seem worth it to me personally...as I see it as a doorway to a million scrobbling apps/.
10:21:36[Saint]Working on RB's scrobbling seems more sane.
10:21:44rasherkugel: There are iirc 2 scrobbling apis
10:21:48rasherwidespread
10:21:57[Saint](at this point in time)
10:21:59rasherThis is, again iirc, the most common one
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10:22:49JdGordonand what exactly is the big deal in supporting the most common few api's? assuming of course it is as much work as this patch for each?
10:23:06Llorean[Saint]: Anyone writing new apps would be silly not to support the existing API because they'd want their app to be usable immediately, not require everyone to update their music players
10:23:16[Saint]I always assumed RaaA would take care of this itself eventually.
10:23:19rasherPersonally I'd be all for removing Rockbox's own scrobbing in favour of this
10:23:24Bagderamen
10:23:24LloreanUnless the current APIs are missing something significant, I think it's reasonable to assume they're *likely* to continue to be used
10:23:28[Saint]ie. I asumed we'd be able to access themes eventually too.
10:23:29rasherWhy re-implement what already exists
10:23:32[Saint]seems like a stop-gap.
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10:24:16Llorean[Saint]: I don't see why Rockbox should do extra things like downloading its own themes. If we need that, we could create an RBUtil for Android, or make our theme page more mobile-friendly.
10:24:21JdGordon[Saint]: themes should be done, probably in a rbutil app
10:24:44kugelrasher: this is not a case of re-implementing something which already exists
10:24:45rasher[Saint]: Even if Rockbox was able to scrobble, I'd prefer the API + external app way, since that way I get a central configuration of scrobbling from all music apps, including Rockbox
10:24:45LloreanI'd say replace our scrobbling with support for this API (and the other one later if someone adds it) but respect the setting still
10:25:15rasherLlorean: the idea is that you disable scrobbling in the scrobbling app instead
10:25:29rasherkugel: No, that was a response to [Saint] suggesting Rockbox should handle scrobbling and submitting
10:26:02Lloreanrasher: I can see that. I'm not sure I agree. If I'm switching between audiobooks and music I would want to toggle scrobbling. I already have configs for this since my listening patterns for each are different.
10:26:08kugeldoes our scrobbling conflict with other apps scrobbling?
10:26:10LloreanIf I used scrobbling, I'd include that in the config, rather than having to go around to another appe
10:26:20kugelaccessing a single file or whatever?
10:26:24rasherLlorean: fair enough
10:26:37rasherkugel: I'm not sure what you mean?
10:27:13kugelcan we do both call APIs of other app and do our scrobbling at the same time=?
10:27:29rashersure
10:27:35rasherI don't see why you'd do that though
10:27:48LloreanMe neither.
10:27:48rasherkugel: have you looked at the patch? It's about 10 lines
10:27:59kugelyes
10:28:20kugelbut I agree it should probably respect the setting
10:28:50JdGordonour "scrobbling" is disabled by default and only writes the log
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10:28:57JdGordondisabling it in the build is pretty pointless
10:29:30rasherI guess then we get a new setting.. sigh
10:29:37JdGordonwhat? no
10:29:45rasherSure we do
10:29:47JdGordonit is there already
10:29:52rasherI don't want a log
10:29:55[Saint]Indeed it is.
10:29:58rasherSo I'd set that to no
10:30:05JdGordonit is no already
10:30:14rasherJdGordon: But that would then disable the api
10:30:19JdGordonno it wouldnt
10:30:22rasher(if kugel and Llorean get their way)
10:30:28JdGordonthat is idiotic
10:30:34JdGordonim talking about that patch
10:30:41rasherI wouldn't go that far, but I don't agree with it
10:30:42[Saint]that's a bit harsh...it's a different opinion.
10:30:47[Saint]It's not "idiotic"
10:30:55[Saint]it's *different*
10:31:32kugelrasher: the log would hurt because of...?
10:31:46Lloreankugel: Well if you never use it, it just gets longer and longer right?
10:32:22rasherYeah it'd just be something I'd have to remove once in a while
10:32:53[Saint]*months* of scrobbling is a ~200kb file
10:33:02rasherNot to mention OMG DRIVE ACCESS
10:33:05LloreanIs it possible to upload the log through a webpage
10:33:13LloreanOr are people actually having to connect their phones to a PC to upload it currently?
10:33:28[Saint]Llorean: Yes, it is.
10:33:32[Saint](possible)
10:33:40*Llorean is pretty sure it's okay to just toss the log in favor of the API on Android.
10:34:07LloreanI mean if Android itself had a scrobbling API built in, I don't think this would even be a discussion.
10:34:19[Saint]Llorean: scrob.paulstead.com <- for instance
10:34:25LloreanBut since it's optional, it's a *tiny* bit more debatable.
10:34:30[Saint](point it to a log or timeless log and boom.)
10:34:49rasher[Saint]: how easy is it to do that through the Android browser though?
10:35:21[Saint]As easy as any other similar instance I would imagine.
10:35:44[Saint]website asks for file, point to file, etc.
10:36:03Unhelpfulwhat exactly is the cost of broadcasting the messages if nothing listens? i imagine it *doesn't* involve disk writes, etc? :P
10:36:21rasher[Saint]: "point to file" is problematic
10:36:32kugelwhat if I don't want just another app just for scrobbling or keep my current flow with rockbox scrobbling (coming from a dap)?
10:36:34LloreanUnhelpful: I think the two questions are "always broadcast, or broadcast if scrobbling enabled" and "if we broadcast, do we really need the file"
10:36:40[Saint]AH....symlinks yeah? fuck it.
10:36:58[Saint]I mean, "twiddle-dee-dee", rather.
10:37:03rasher[Saint]: no. I mean the Android browser doesn't let you select any old file from the tree
10:37:26rasherkugel: then I submit that you're a dinosaur and part of the problem!
10:37:29rasher(respectfully)
10:37:35LloreanHaving the log + broadcasts also means the potential to accidentally log twice if there's ever an app that can automatically look for scrobbler logs and upload them.
10:37:43[Saint]Well, is it not *fairly* safe to assume if you're using ROckbox you're probably smart enough to not use the android filebrowser?
10:37:47[Saint](that might be a reach)
10:37:54kugelrasher: because I prefer to not change habbits?
10:38:03Bagderyes!
10:38:26Llorean[Saint]: Ideally we'd want it on the marketplace, which means they may not use an alternate file browser.
10:38:29Unhelpfulwhat about multiple states for the option? do nothing, notify, or log on track change?
10:38:30rasherkugel: well, it's obviously tongue in cheek, but I am in favour of reducing complexity (and choice) at the cost of *some* flexibility
10:38:36kugelI need to to jump on the "the more apps I have the cooler I am" band wagon so that people don't call me a dinosaur?
10:38:55Bagderapps should not do everything possible
10:39:07[Saint]emacs.rock is for that...
10:39:12[Saint];)
10:39:40Unhelpful(i agree w/ Llorean about "do both", you may double-log that way, and i can't really see what you *would* get out of it)
10:39:52LloreanWriting log files out to disk for another program to read really feels like something we should only be doing if there's not a way to communicate with the other program directly. In this case, there is.
10:39:54rasherkugel: I just don't see many possible benefits
10:40:58[Saint]I do agree with kugel insofar as "I use the scrobbler on my DAPs too, and I am used to that flow with ROckbox"
10:40:59rasherLlorean: I agree, the log thing always seemed like a band-aid to me
10:41:21[Saint]I assume many are, and, not *everyone* has data available 24/7, or even uses it if they do.
10:41:38rasher[Saint]: you don't have to. Scrobbling apps will cache for you
10:41:57kugelI thought scrobbler.log was common all over the world (until the smartphone hype perhaps)?
10:41:59*Unhelpful is pretty sure that he has commented in the past that networked DAPs would be nice-to-have if rockbox could scrobble directly from one. :)
10:42:09[Saint]kugel: I thought so too.
10:42:15rasherkugel: you'd never see a desktop app do that - because they can submit directly
10:42:23[Saint]I mean, can I still point to a scrobbler.log manually with this new API?
10:42:38rasher[Saint]: they're completely different things
10:42:51rasherYour question doesn't really make sense
10:43:18[Saint]I mean, does this app still produce a scrobbler.log?
10:43:24*Unhelpful kind of gets the impression that this is not so much a "scrobbling API" as "broadcast message informing of track change" that some scrobbler apps can listen to.
10:43:24rasherThis app?
10:43:27rasherWhich app?
10:43:38Unhelpful[Saint]: you could have an app that does... but i don't really see why?
10:44:01rasherUnhelpful: that's exactly what it is
10:44:25Unhelpfulthen i have to say i don't really even see why you would turn it off. :P
10:45:04LloreanUnhelpful: Don't want to scrobble my audiobooks. Do want to scrobble my music.
10:45:34*rasher still feels like that should be changed in the app responsible for scrobbling
10:45:47Unhelpfulor perhaps not? is this tied to a specific app? Intent scrobbleUpdate = new Intent("net.jjc1138.android.scrobbler.action.MUSIC_STATUS");
10:45:57rasherUnhelpful: no, any app can listen for that
10:46:31Unhelpfulis there a more generic (not originating w/ a scrobbler app) intent for notifying track change?
10:47:16Unhelpfulare there non-scrobbler apps that use this data?
10:47:29Bagdermusic player widgets perhaps?
10:47:50rasherMaybe the default music player does something
10:48:02rasherAt least http://code.google.com/p/a-simple-lastfm-scrobbler/ manages to detect track changes from it
10:48:10rasherBut I'm not sure it's any better to piggy-back on that
10:48:11UnhelpfulBagder: do they? if they use something else, do we already broadcast that?
10:48:23BagderI don't know, twas just a guess from me
10:48:28Unhelpfulif yes, does that information suffice for scrobbling?
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14:33:28LloreanIs it known that the "prev" button in the Rockbox Android port widget doesn't work if skip length is enabled?
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14:55:25webguest58hello all I have a question on unbricking a clip+. I am getting permission denied message when trying to dd the clip
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14:56:28Torneyou need to be root
15:00
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15:07:48webguest58I need to reboot the computer or the clip
15:08:47Torneno, you need to be the root user.
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15:19:33webguest58I am useing a live cd do you know how I would log on a root
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15:22:41Torneprefix the command with sudo
15:26:07webguest58torne i think that did it but it came back very fast. do I just need to unplug and restart?
15:26:18Tornethe file is not very big, so it shouldn't take long
15:26:38Torneyou can eject /dev/sdwhateveritwas to make sure it definately wrote it out
15:26:52Tornethat is, run "eject /dev/sdb" or whichever device it was.
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15:30:33webguest58That did it. Torne is the king of the clips. woohooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! thank you so much.
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17:40:29saratogaBuschel: (for the logs) do you mind if I commit FS #12096?
17:41:16saratogait seems reasonable to me
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17:55:13Lloreansaratoga: Is there some reason we have those limits on any tag other than comments?
17:56:22saratogaLlorean: comments are most useful, but if someone had a stupid large title in UTF16, it would block parsing other tags
17:56:31saratoganot sure how big of a deal that would be
17:57:20LloreanI think we can leave that up to them, for the most part. Comments occasionally hold stupid extraneous data the user doesn't even know about, but a giant title can be pretty obvious.
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18:13:13keyb_grIt does make sense to have these limits, it's just the chosen values that need some fine-tuning IMO. One should never bump into them with sanely tagged files, except maybe on low-mem players.
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18:57:24bluebrotherLlorean: here you go: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12097
18:57:38bluebrotherworks fine for me, used it today :)
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19:22:47Buschelsaratoga: I'm fine with FS #12096
19:23:08Buschelkeyb_gr: thanks for your acitivity to provide a patch
19:23:56saratogayou want to commit or should I?
19:24:14Buschelup to you, I am having dinner now :)
19:25:00saratogai'll do it then
19:29:58CIA-87New commit by 03saratoga (r29821): Commit FS #12096 by Stephan Grossklass. Increases the maximum ID3v2 field length to 240 bytes on large memory targets, and 90 bytes on low memory ...
19:34:19CIA-87r29821 build result: All green
19:43:25pamauryhum, the fuze+ can check whether volume up button is down, whether power button is down but not both, volume up has "priority" :-/
19:44:51pixelmathen it's not the first target to have restrictions about button combos
19:45:54pamaurythat's because the power button pin is wired to PSWITCH pin, and voulme up too because it's used to detect recovery mode; the detection is voltage-based I think...
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19:46:24pamauryI'll need to investigate if the OF has another mean of detection
19:48:27bertrikoh wow, someone unfamiliar with dd actually managed to unbrick his clip today :)
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20:00:25CIA-87New commit by 03pamaury (r29822): fuze+: move defines from .c to .h; implement button reading for volume up/down and power
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20:33:15CIA-87New commit by 03learman (r29823): Avoid false warnings of full dirs when the number of visible entries in a dir equals the limit.
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20:36:50CIA-87r29823 build result: All green
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21:31:47bluebrothercan anyone familiar with vbs comment on FS #10904?
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22:14:55rasherIs it really a good idea the Rockbox utility download links live in the wiki?
22:25:06bluebrotherlive links?
22:25:11*bluebrother doesn't understand
22:28:01bluebrotherah, as in the download links shouldn't be publically editable?
22:29:55*bluebrother slaps forehead
22:30:26bluebrothergnah. The new Rockbox Utility package for Windows will create false positives for Rockbox Utility updates :(
22:32:25bluebrotherso what to do about that: create a new release that only increases the version number to avoid this?
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