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#rockbox log for 2011-05-11

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01:16:59***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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01:35:03keyb_grWhat do you guys think of FS #12037 (add bug categories for Rockbox website), other than being misfiled?
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01:44:35keyb_grSpeaking of the website... ever tried finding out what license RB uses? All I can say is I gave up and resorted to Google, which eventually spit out some discussion revealing it was GPLv2. Shouldn't this be extremely obvious, as in no more than one click from the main page?
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01:52:00keyb_grOn another note, would anyone have a clue why the Clip+ would not turn off its headphone amp during shutdown, hence producing an ugly pop noise? Try FM radio, that pretty much has sound until the very end.
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01:55:29keyb_grThere is a function in as3514.c that at least in theory should provide smooth shutdown, but how do I find out whether it's ever called and if so, where? (Sorry for my noobness.)
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03:19:52tripelbhello. I have a Fuze v.1 and I understand that I should backup the system I have before installing rockbox. I've been looking for how to do it. I dont remember where I was told to do it even. Regardless, I'd like to know how to do it. Ubuntu 10.04 gnome is on my system. THANKS
03:42:40tripelbHere's the text: Bootloader installation requires you to provide a firmware file of the original firmware (bin file). You need to download this file yourself due to legal reasons. Please browse the Sansa Forums' or refer to the manual and the SansaAMS wiki page on how to obtain this file.
03:42:40tripelbPress Ok to continue and browse your computer for the firmware file.
03:43:12JdGordonthat says what to do
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04:40:50tripelbso far so good. I found the firmware thingy and posted re it on the user forums.
04:41:50tripelbJdGordon, thanks for dissing me. IF I understood it I would not have asked. Anyway, I found a page that was clear and shared the link.
04:42:09tripelb<−− opensouce morality and heart
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05:37:33chrisbi liked my sansa e250, but need to replace it. should i get another e250 or a fuze or clip, now that they seem to have stable ports?
05:39:28JdGordonyes
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05:54:04chrisbJdGordon: which? e250, fuze or clip?
05:55:08krazykitany or all of them
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07:01:46 Join phr [0] (~phr@ruckus.brouhaha.com)
07:02:21phris any chance someone can reset my rockbox forums password? i can log into the wiki but not the forum
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07:17:07***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
07:17:47JdGordonphr: whats your username?
07:17:53JdGordonI'll see if i have enough admin rights
07:19:11JdGordonphr? last online 4 years ago? :D
07:20:05JdGordonand no, doesnt look like I can, scorche ?
07:21:45scorcheJdGordon: you should be able to
07:22:38scorchephr: see PM
07:22:55JdGordonoh, right, i was looking in the wrong area
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07:30:31phrscorche, thanks
07:30:50phrJdGordon, yeah, it's been a while, i think i posted something suggeting rockbox be able to unpack zip files for playback
07:30:56phrscorche, pm
07:32:05scorchephr: you had no posts - at least on the "phr" account
07:33:30phrhmm
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07:33:51phri thought i did post something like that... it got some responses, nobody else wanted the feature... could it be as "paulr" ?
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08:41:35pixelmakugel: your build works but the list spacing doesn't look very nice. It's true that it is actually comparable to the native android lists on my phone but for some reason it doesn't bother me this much there as it does with your patch.
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08:43:36pixelmaI'm trying to understand for myself why and I think it has to do with the fact that android often has a second line of info in one item space and that usually the lists aren't very long
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08:47:39Zagorpixelma: are you using the same font?
08:49:12pixelmano, but I think the one I use is a bit heavier then then stock one
08:49:29sideralZagor: Seems like I accidentally removed the assignment of FS #11297 to funman with my last edit of the task. I wanted to correct this, but I can't: funman isn't in Flyspray's list of developers anymore −− which is probably the reason why the deassignment happened in the first place
08:49:40pixelmathan too
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08:51:42pixelmaZagor: height of the two fonts seems comparable
08:52:15ZagorI can't think of an example list in "native" android. lists and menus should probably have different spacing.
08:53:07pixelmamaybe it also has to do with the separator lines which just fill otherwise empty space and gives a border
08:53:14Zagorandroid also has a line between each menu entry (at least android 2.3)
08:54:00pixelmawell yeah, I didn't find a really comparable list (the app manager one was the closest I could think of)
08:54:28crwllsubsonic (and some other apps) have a list that has quite a small spacing and if you grab the scrollbar, you can see the alphabet you're at
08:54:33pixelmafile managers seem to do their own thing
08:54:41JdGordonhooking up the native list widget would be a better patch than simply using a non-configurable line height in the lists
08:55:01Zagorright, the application list is a proper list
08:55:20Zagor(settings->applications->manage applications)
08:55:45Zagoror at least the most list-like I've found :)
08:56:19Zagorthe list of wifi networks is another
08:56:34Zagorinterestingly, they use different fonts
08:56:53Zagorthe wiki list looks more like an extended menu
08:56:57Zagor*wifi
08:57:03JdGordonIf someone was keen (and we could live with limitations of no scrolling and a single viewport per list item) our lists could be themeable with skins
08:57:15JdGordonI never did the work because i dont really like the limitations
08:57:30Zagorno scrolling is a deal killer for me
08:57:46JdGordonum, it would be no scrolling exxcept in the selected items viewport
08:57:51Zagoroh
08:57:52amiconnHence my idea of a configurable additional line spacing for text
08:58:39JdGordonthe best system I could come up with is configuring 2 viewports, one for non selected items and one for the selected item (not nescecarily the same heights) and having the list draw them
08:58:49amiconnThis might be useful for themers on all targets, not just touch, although I prefer information density and hence probably wouldn't use it myself
08:59:15JdGordonmy idea would make touch/grid support better also
08:59:23JdGordonbut I have bassically no time anymore :)
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09:11:39JdGordonIs anyone out there interested in picking up the theme support maintenance?
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09:16:01[Saint]If they were....do you think you'd be "theme guy"? ;)
09:16:15[Saint]And yes...I realize that's not a title you necessarily want...
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09:18:10*JdGordon isnt going anywhere but has no time to code lately
09:18:23JdGordonso if someone wanted to pick it up I'd be happy to help them get going
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09:19:05[Saint]I think the main problem with it is that it's a scary part of the project to just jump into, and it kinda needs a bit of prior knowledge about the way things work, or should work.
09:19:33JdGordonactually, compared to the rest I tihnk its probably the easiest part to jump into :)
09:19:38JdGordonit is mostly self contained
09:19:59[Saint]Of course *you* think it's easy ;)
09:23:15[Saint]It certainly interests me...but I really can't say I have the time. I barely have time for real life thse days. Seems to be a problem a few people are facing.
09:24:37[Saint]I more enjoy playing with what the skin engine allows me to do...and I haven't had much and/or any time for that lately either. :/
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09:30:20sideralApropos theming: I'm using the "literal" theme on my Clips, and there's one thing that annoys me: There's a space between the album name and the year, even when there is no year -> album is slightly off-center
09:31:11sideralI'd prefer not having to fix this myself :)
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09:40:51[Saint]sideral: Welcome to the wonderful world of "give users a nice theme engine, so they can make very, very broken themes" ;)
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09:41:09[Saint]more often than not, they only cover the exact use case of the author and no more.
09:41:29[Saint]themes that are actually made to cover all scenarios are like hens teeth
09:42:19[Saint]You usually find that once you find a theme you like, it's a small matter of beating it into shape, though.
09:42:45[Saint](but sometimes you find a mess of sheer terror, that basically needs to be completely re-done apart from a few select images)
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09:45:21[Saint]this issue you mention sounds like it's pretty simple to fix, but that's "famous last words" talk.
09:46:27[Saint]it sounds as though the author has just assumed that the metadata will always be present.
09:47:19sideralWell, it manages to not display the parentheses around the year if the year is not present, so leaving out the space as well doesn't appear to be rocket science
09:49:42JoshuaChangany idea for change the metadata/elapsed time information in codec stageļ¼Ÿ
09:50:13[Saint]JoshuaChang: I think you need to word that question a bit better.
09:50:19[Saint]it's not clear what you're asking.
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09:52:19JoshuaChangeh...the nsf codec, when sub-track auto changed, the elapsed time in wps didn't move
09:54:29JoshuaChangalso, some vgz(compressed vgm) track couldn't get metadata information in metadata stage, the metadata information was set in codec stage, after 29785, it didn't work anymore
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10:02:23sideralSaint: OK, it was easier than I though. I was able to fix it in 2 minutes :)
10:02:41[Saint]sideral 1, theme 0
10:03:15sideralyay
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10:09:20[Saint]let me guess, the difference between " %?iy<%iy>" and "%?iy< %iy>"?
10:11:13[Saint]oh, right, yeah...I'm looking now. heh.
10:12:24sideralexactly :)
10:15:25sideralWhat's the official way to get this change distributed?
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10:17:55[Saint]there isn't one, really.
10:18:09kugelsideral: contact the author
10:18:20[Saint]bug the author (sometimes possible), or upload a fixed version with another name.
10:18:54sideralugh. this stuff is not version-controlled?
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10:19:20[Saint]only the original author can re-submit the theme, with the same credentials.
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10:32:09sideralHow can I find the author? all I see on the theme site is a real name
10:35:52tripelbcan my fuse take a memory card that isnt just a microSD but is a microSDHC or SDHCTM?
10:37:53tripelbI installed the new Rockbox as of May, on a v1 Fuze. It breaks all the time and I have to powercycle it. When it breaks I get a screen half full of some kind of register dump.
10:40:51tripelbGOT it. It does take SDHC.
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11:11:03[Saint]sideral: You'd need a themesite admin, I guess.
11:11:47sideralsideral 1, theme 1
11:11:58[Saint];)
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11:39:01soapit is too late now, but someone should mention to sideral that the IrcNicks wiki page is a good start for attaching an IRC nick to the "real name" in the various pages. Though it is more empty than it should be,
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16:33:10keyb_grSansa / AMS guys - Is there any reason for not disabling output mixer AGC on AS3543, as it's done on other AMS targets? There's a bit in AUDIOSET2 register, but not even a define in as3514.h to go along with it.
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16:43:15keyb_grThe power-off pop noise on the Clip+ seems to occur when turning off the headphone amp BTW. Nothing one could do much about, I'm afraid :(
16:44:40Zagorpossibly it could be damped by first turning down the volume
16:45:18ZagorI mean in the code, not manually
16:45:21n1sor muting if it has a mute bit
16:45:26Zagorright
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16:59:02keyb_grMuting is already active at this point. The pop noise seems much louder on high-impedance loads, so ought to be something capacitive. There is a pop noise control circuit, maybe that only cancels things well with low-impedance loads.
16:59:40keyb_grStill strange that this would be more pronounced compared to my old ClipV2.
17:00
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17:04:44GOSChello
17:05:09GOSCfrom where i can download OF to sansa v2?
17:05:30n1sthe manual should have a link
17:05:34[Saint]The Sandisk site is a good start.
17:05:34GOSCmy rockbox utility want it
17:05:41[Saint]The manual and the installer link to it.
17:05:43GOSCi check it
17:05:58GOSCon site is only autouptader
17:06:20TorneNo, you are not reading far enough
17:06:25TorneThe OF *is* there.
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17:06:54GOSCautoupdate is checking ur firmware and when u have lastest he didnt download any .bin files
17:07:09keyb_grhttp://www.anythingbutipod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51524
17:07:43GOSCi have fuze v2 ;p
17:07:43keyb_grDownload needs to be unzipped.
17:08:12GOSCthis is from sandisk official try to download .bin file http://forums.sandisk.com/t5/Fuze/Sansa-Fuze-Firmware-Update-01-02-31-amp-02-03-33/td-p/139175
17:08:16GOSCi couldnt
17:08:39[Saint]http://kb.sandisk.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/278
17:08:47[Saint]READ THE WHOLE THING
17:08:51[Saint]sorry, caps
17:09:10[Saint]don;t just take the first step, *read it* the FW links are there.
17:09:16gevaertsI could
17:09:56GOSCoh sorry i found
17:10:13GOSCi was thinkink rhis is manual -.-
17:10:26GOSCthinking*
17:12:12GOSCThank you for help anyway, and sory for my english
17:12:12[Saint]Hm? It is manual...you download the file manually, there's no need for the sansa updater. unless I'm missunderstanding you.
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17:12:35GOSCinstruction*
17:12:50GOSClike on rockbox site
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17:21:34Torneah, he means because he wasn't following the manual rockbox install instructions, he assumed he didn't need the manual firmware download from sansa.
17:21:45Tornethat's, unfortunately, plausible human logic
17:21:52Tornecan we improve our messaging? :)
17:22:50[Saint]propbably not without wither renaming the manual to "almanac", or redifining the definition of "manual" in the English language ;)
17:24:21Tornewhat?
17:24:24Torneno, i mean manual as in not automatic
17:24:37TorneOur install instructions refer to two choices, manual installation or automatic installation
17:24:45TorneSandisk's firmware page *also* uses those same two choices
17:24:53Tornehence the mistake GOSC made
17:25:16Torneautomatic install of rockbox == i should download the automatic firmware installer from sandisk
17:25:19n1sand the automatic install still requires a manual download, is there a reason rbutil can't get the file?
17:25:25evilnick_BSo we add some disambiguation to the manual to clarify that
17:25:45Tornen1s: because it's just a forum post and so the URL is not predictable
17:25:55[Saint]that would need to be very carefully crafted text.
17:26:14Tornen1s: we know the URL for the forum post with the latest firmware, but we would have to actually scrape the contents and interpret it to link directly to the firmware
17:26:27Torneall evidence suggests it's just edited by a human
17:26:41Torneit could probably be done reasonably reliably, but not *easily*
17:26:44Tornewell, not trivially
17:26:51n1smaybe we should ask sandisk if we can mirror the firmware
17:28:03[Saint]"please note, whether you chose to install Rockbox automatically or manually, you will always need to chose the manual firmware update option from the Sandisk site"
17:28:16Torne[Saint]: Well I don't think we need to specifically disambiguate *that*
17:28:29Tornewe just need to try and refer better to the right thing to look for ont heir page in general, i think
17:28:29[Saint](though, that's not entirely true...because you can pull the files out of the updater, no?)
17:28:40TorneI don't think the updater containst eh file at all
17:28:45TorneI think the updater downloads it also
17:28:54Tornenot sure though
17:28:57[Saint]err...after the fact of downloading them, yeah. I forgot that.
17:30:06n1sor, well, most people actually seem to manage so i think we can just leave it as is
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17:30:47TorneI dunno, it comes up pretty often
17:31:11TorneIt's unlikely that making the instructions more verbose is going to prevent anyone who can download it now from being able to find it.. ;)
17:32:21SecretofManaThere's also the fact that Sandisk promotes its automatic firmware updater more than the manual firmware download, so I can see where the confusion results from.
17:32:50[Saint]we can't fix "pick the first link I'm offered" syndrome, though.
17:33:10SecretofManaTrue, true, but I don't think it could hurt.
17:33:12Torneyou can make it less likely if you explicitly point out that the thing youa relooking for is not the first link offered
17:33:21Torne*someone* will always fail, but hey
17:33:33[Saint]that would require someone checking it's validity, though.
17:33:46[Saint]they may move it somewhere new entirely, or even stop offering it.
17:34:34SecretofManaIf that happens then new installation instructions will be required anyways since telling the people looking for the firmware to go to the forums won't be correct anyways.
17:35:32TorneI don't mean literally saying "it's not the first link it's the second one"
17:35:45Tornejust, yaknow, noting htat it's described as the manual firmware download
17:35:47Torneor whatever.
17:38:01TorneThe message right now makes a tiny passing reference "(bin file)" but doesn't in any way mention that there are *two things on offer* and only one of them is right
17:40:49SecretofManaI was also confused by this recently when I had to download the firmware for my Sansa Clip+
17:45:39TorneSecretofMana: well, if you have an idea for specific replacement text please post it on the forum/as a bugreport :)
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18:00:10SecretofManaTorne: Alright, thanks for the tip.
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18:39:07pamauryEven before having the doc I wondered how I would integrate the fuze+ touch pad into rockbox but now that I know that it supports multi-fingers I'm even more dubious
18:40:09[Saint]we can register dual keypresses, no?
18:40:26[Saint]thinking of "hotkey", apparently so.
18:41:52pamauryerr, it supports multi fingers but I don't know how to read the position of more than one !
18:42:01[Saint]Ah.
18:42:45pamaurybut it supports "enhanced gestures"
18:43:08pamaury"tap, double tap, tap and slide"
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18:43:11[Saint]such as swiping, etc?
18:43:13[Saint]ah, ok.
18:43:52pamauryI haven't tried yet, that will be fun :D
18:43:59Nuohello, how i can turn on usb mode on rockbox?
18:44:14pamauryNuo: on which device?
18:44:16[Saint]Nuo: On what device?
18:44:31Nuoflash
18:44:56[Saint]You need to be more specific, what is the name of your device?
18:45:11NuoSansa fuze v2
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18:45:25[Saint]USB is deliberately disabled there.
18:45:42[Saint]for now, it needs to use the OF for USB due to stability issues.
18:45:51Nuook
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18:45:57[Saint]If you can compile your own build, there's a patch on the tracker for this.
18:45:58Nuothx
18:46:15[Saint]However, it's also not guaranteed to work.
18:46:24Nuoand how i can install fiff file?
18:46:30Nuo.diff*
18:46:49Nuoohh ;p
18:46:51pamaurythat's FS #11664 if you are interested but you need to download the rockbox code, install the toolchain and compile everythin
18:46:55Nuothen i wait for stable
18:47:08Nuothx for help
18:47:23[Saint]If you're prepared for that to potentially never happen. Go for it.
18:47:38[Saint]USB on these devices is a longstanding issue.
18:48:10Nuook i try
18:48:26pamaury[Saint]: apparently the touchpad supports multi fingers for gesture like pinching
18:48:29[Saint]http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/DevelopmentGuide has what you'll need to get started.
18:49:09[Saint]pamaury: Wow, nice. That could be fun to play with.
18:50:02Nuook i go on linux bb
18:50:16pamaurydefinitely, if it works well hat could provide a nice user interface but it doesn't really fit the rockbox input system
18:50:39[Saint]It would be amusing if a DAP got multi-touch before RaaA ;)
18:51:06pamaurythat's not really multi-touch since the touchpad itself does the analysis and reports it
18:52:00[Saint]Oh...I see. How much of it is doccumented? (if any at all)
18:52:39pamaurythe synaptics rmi interface is fully documented \o/ (except if this device does not follow it but it seems to be ok)
18:53:45pamauryGiven how horrible is the OF user interface I hope it's only because they were bad at programming it and not because the device performs badly :D
18:54:47Tornemultitouchstuff on synaptics pads works pretty badly in my experience
18:55:22pamauryonetouch would already be great
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18:56:24pamaury I can even "invent" buttons on the touchpad, the one printed are just signs really
18:57:03[Saint]that would be as terrible as grid-mode, though.
18:57:20[Saint]no clear boundaries for touch regions is very painful to use.
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18:58:44pamauryand don't forget that the touchpad is not on the screen !
18:59:09pamauryit's too small to have a usable grid mode anyway
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19:01:43pamauryanyway, I think at the beginning I will stay with a simple tap=key press mechanism, that's shouldn't be too hard
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19:03:09[Saint]you'l at least need "tap&hold" later on also, for context menus/button_repeat.
19:03:26[Saint]good thing it's supported then ;)
19:03:54pamaurywell yeah, tap and tap&hold are both easily supported I think
19:04:08pamaurywhat is harder is tap&slide for example
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20:33:42keyb_grSansa / AMS guys: Any comment on FS #12111? Just something I noticed earlier today.
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20:52:09CIA-81New commit by 03Buschel (r29857): libfaad: Move PS related variables to sbr_info struct. This allows dynamic allocation including error handling.
20:55:53CIA-81r29857 build result: All green
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21:59:17wodzI would like to commit my rockchip rk27xx code but I have problem how to name the target. The one I am working on is some noname which seems pretty close to reference design.
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21:59:42wodzI called it rockchipgeneric in my tree. What do you think about it?
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22:03:57wodzhmm, no opinion apparently :-(
22:12:14 Quit benedikt93 (Quit: "Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." - Aldous Huxley)
22:17:04kkit|shwodz, maybe folks need to see your comment before offering an opinion ;)
22:18:15wodzI thought I put it clear - is rockchipgeneric a good name for new target?
22:19:09 Quit Buschel (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
22:22:44kkit|shi mainly meant "5 minutes is too short a time for folks to respond"
22:28:58pixelmawodz: maybe "rockchip rk27xx" if there could be bigger differences between the actual chips? That's only judged from what you said and how you referred to them though and with me not knowing too much about it I admit
22:32:33wodzhmm good point
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22:45:16***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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23:08:44sideralamiconn: FS #12107 - Remove track-number generation heuristic from database
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23:10:01pamaurywodz: the name is not "that" important, just pick one which you think is close to the reality; since we'll probably never no that's not important :)
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