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#rockbox log for 2011-05-12

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00:38:30pamaury[Saint]: I've played a bit with the fuze+ touchpad and it seems to works rather well :)
00:39:23sideralWhere's CIA-81?
00:39:56pamauryhey, CIA disappeared, my commit didn't show up :(
00:40:43sideralmine neither
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00:44:01*sideral denies responsibility for the warnings reported here: http://build.rockbox.org/shownewlog.cgi?rev=29858;type=iriverh300sim#prob1
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00:57:28chazorhey guys
00:57:38chazori have a quick question
00:58:18chazori have an old motorola defy thats colecting dust is there a way to wipe android from it and just run rockbox?
01:00
01:00:31pixelmayou could run Rockbox as an android app, which still needs android though obviously
01:01:20chazorwell the other option is just flashing ios to it making it an ipod
01:01:40chazorbut i like rock box SOO much better
01:01:42pixelmaotherwise you would need to port Rockbox to this hardware which means lots of work and programming knowledge
01:01:52chazorright
01:02:45chazoralrightie well thank you
01:02:47chazor:)
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03:20:11jhMikeSshouldn't automatic resume settings be in the playback setting menu and not general settings? how it is now threw me off and it still feels odd
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05:56:44jhMikeSIs it going to piss anyone off if I do move the autoresume submenu to playback settings? Was this something hotly debated at one point?
05:59:51JdGordonping sideral on that.... iirc there was some discussion whcih boiled down to it not being finished
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06:00
06:02:05jhMikeSThe connection to not being finished vs. out of place in the menus?
06:02:38JdGordoni dont really remember... im not even sure this is the setting we talked about
06:02:44JdGordonprobably is thoguh
06:03:10jhMikeSI remember some discussion about _how_ it should work or some, nothing about menu placement
06:03:46JdGordonwe definitly talked about its current placement
06:04:19jhMikeSguess I missed that part of it :D
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06:25:58*jhMikeS don't waste no time (and it's a nice task number for a Rush fan): http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12112
06:33:41jhMikeSthe playback menu is quite an option orgy
06:34:22JdGordons/playback//
06:34:47JdGordongot any actual ideas how to improve it though?
06:34:55jhMikeShmmm...JdGordon might have a point
06:35:06jhMikeStwo
06:36:40jhMikeSmaybe three, 1) group highly-related settings under submenus 2) introduce some kind of item groupings in menus and use that 3) magic l337 menu :)
06:38:29*jhMikeS has an idea about inlined settings that use the same keypresses but it's probabaly patented or something
06:44:55JdGordon?
06:45:14jhMikeSwhat, you want actually know what it is?
06:45:27***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
06:45:53jhMikeSor am I just saying confusing things?
06:46:20JdGordonboth
06:46:27JdGordonyou mean displaying inlined settings?
06:46:37jhMikeSyes
06:47:49jhMikeSbecause I've seen UI (on phones and whatnot) that displays more detail for the selected item, one could easily select the item into a mode that allows changing it's value without going into a full-blown list and the keys strokes to do it won't change
06:48:38jhMikeSand no more space is used when it's not selected
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06:56:23jhMikeSthe values can at least be seen without going deeper, right and left still enter and exit "edit" mode
07:00
07:01:20JdGordonsince the setting rework of a few years ago inline settings are actually pretty simple to display
07:05:38jhMikeSIIRC, there was a thing about it eating up screen width all the time. I was thinking about just expanding the selected line into two lines, the second showing the value instead of the usual putting to the right of the text. Whatever it is it should be for immediately available items, not trying to expand deep heirarchy right into one level.
07:06:59jhMikeSthought I'd toss-in some "middle way" idea about it
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07:54:55JdGordonjhMikeS: now we have multifont 2 line selector could be made to look very nice if there is enough lcd height
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07:57:53JdGordonbut then that really comes down to a themeing thing which goes onto the list of how I want to fix it but lack time
08:00
08:00:09jhMikeSthat actually works now?
08:00:18JdGordon"that"?
08:01:31jhMikeSmultifont 2 line selector?
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08:01:56JdGordonmultifont works, 2 line selector works, merging them has (probably) never been tried
08:02:07jhMikeSah
08:02:11JdGordonit will take fiddling because viewports can only have one font
08:02:32jhMikeSat a time or forever?
08:02:36JdGordonthis goes back to yesterdays talk about how the list widget needs to be changed to draw viewports and not individual lines
08:03:09JdGordonat a time. You could change it before drawing each line but scrolling will break and line y offsets could change
08:04:49jhMikeShmmm...why would scrolling break?
08:05:33JdGordonbecause the line number is stored, not x/y pixels, (also the font isnt saved). so if you change to a smaller font the line will continue scroling in the wrong place
08:06:28*jhMikeS thought that method was getting dropped :\
08:06:36JdGordonunlikely
08:06:48JdGordonyou need to keep your head in playback... :D
08:06:56jhMikeSmaybe
08:07:05jhMikeSwhy so, I don't break the GUI? :)
08:07:46jhMikeSI still have ideas outside of what I'm working on in the near-term
08:08:09jhMikeSmakes me ask, "what's wrong with scrolling that it's so rigid?"
08:09:58JdGordonim sure scrolling could be updated to make it better
08:10:15JdGordonas long as we have a simple way to figure out which lines are in a particular viewport to know to stop them
08:12:35jhMikeSbitmask
08:12:49JdGordon? viewports arent numbered
08:13:14JdGordonand we dont want to limit anything artificially
08:13:19jhMikeSother way, viewport stores which lines it uses in a bitmask
08:13:23jhMikeSit wouldn't
08:13:56jhMikeSsame way you do priorities in the scheduler but with multiple 32-bit words (or any other size)
08:14:33JdGordonscrolling lines are stored seperatly from the viewports they are in, i dont tihnk that would work
08:14:52JdGordonanyway, as long as scrolling is always in the selected item (so the viewport is only drawn once) it should be workable
08:19:37jhMikeSYou mean the array in scoll_engine.c, right?
08:19:45JdGordonprobably
08:19:51JdGordondont really know the scroll engine
08:21:03jhMikeSgoing viewport->scroll entry is easy, the reverse is a little more tricky if you want some O(1) implementation
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08:24:13jhMikeSI guess there's already a vp pointer in each entry
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08:27:39*JdGordon gone, back tomoorow
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08:28:15jhMikeSlinked lists starting at the vp to the first entry for the vp
08:28:47jhMikeSgood tomorrow!
08:29:08jhMikeSer, tomoorow
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08:31:48*jhMikeS also knows the pcmrec thread can be booted off and the audio thread used instead by calling into pcmrec.c
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16:32:32dewdroidIs there any way around the 10000 track playlist limit on the ipod video or is it a memory limitation?
16:33:23gevaertsThe "max files in playlist" setting?
16:33:37dewdroidBuffer full error
16:33:48dewdroidHold on...ill tell you the exact error
16:34:03gevaertsRight. Memory limitation then
16:34:54n1siirc, you can make a custom build with a limit raised to 32k
16:35:04n1ss/can/can easily/
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16:37:49n1sin fact, the max *is* 32k
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16:38:14n1sdroiddew: just increase the setting
16:38:49droiddewWell...it says playlist buffer full
16:38:56droiddewThere's 10017 tracks
16:39:21n1sso icrease the limit
16:39:28n1sincrease, even
16:39:29droiddewWere?
16:39:35n1sin the setting
16:39:50droiddewWhich file?
16:40:00***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:40:22droiddewOr do I need to go dig through all the source?
16:40:35gevaertsThe *setting*
16:40:39n1sno, you only need to change the setting in the menu
16:40:40gevaertsYou know, in Settings?
16:41:50droiddewOk...I assumed something like that would require a recompile that
16:42:31n1sgeneral settings->system->limits->max playlist size
16:42:54droiddewThat doesn't work
16:43:01droiddewIts probably ram related
16:43:08droiddewIt still stops at 10k
16:43:21TorneThat setting controls the amount of RAM allocated
16:43:28Torneso, er
16:43:32*droiddew shrugs
16:43:38n1sdroiddew: it requires a restart after changing
16:43:38droiddewBattery is dead anyway
16:43:43droiddewAhhh
16:44:03n1si should have pointed you to the manual instead, or in fact, you should have looked ther
16:44:41droiddewYeah...I'm at work and the phone doesn't like the manual
16:44:49droiddewCrashes the browser
16:45:18droiddewWell, thanks
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19:35:08CIA-13New commit by 03Buschel (r29861): Make libfaad compilable again without PS_DEC.
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19:39:19CIA-13r29861 build result: 0 errors, 34 warnings (Buschel committed)
19:40:14Buschelgcc 4.6.x strikes back
19:41:47CIA-13New commit by 03Buschel (r29862): libfaad: AAC including HE-profile needs ~470 KB for playback (measured on ARM). Therefor it does not make sense to enable HE on devices with ...
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19:45:23CIA-13r29862 build result: 115 errors, 33 warnings (Buschel committed)
19:45:53pamaurynice ;)
19:46:00Buschelyep, let's see
19:48:35Buschelahh, shit :) the first define should not have been submitted :/
19:51:08Buschelhmm, those errors show another issue I haven't seen before...
19:57:53Buschelthis memory configuration stuff can be a pain in the ass
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20:06:05CIA-13New commit by 03Buschel (r29863): The last submit had one define too much. Nevertheless fix the IRAM configuration for static allocation method.
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20:11:17***Cleanup
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20:48:27Buschelwhat has happened with the build engines?
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21:03:03jhMikeSlooks like in needs a swift kick
21:03:08jhMikeS*it
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21:34:05pamauryoh, CIA comes...and left :(
21:34:28pamaury*came or leaves :)
21:35:53pixelma_pamaury: I see the quit first and then the join
21:37:46pamauryhum, you're right, I misread
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22:10:03bluebroth3rwhy does headphone unplug detection debounce by 1second? That time sounds way too much to me
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22:10:49jhMikeSthat's what I put there many moons ago, suggested a better value could be found but noone changed it. I guess for GPIO HP detect it needs to be a bit long though.
22:10:51bluebroth3rwhich explains why I always wondered why unplug detection on my Ipod feels so sluggish. Plus that time causes problems for headphone detection on Android
22:11:20***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:11:20bluebroth3rwhich players have non-GPIO detection?
22:11:32lovasoaHi!
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22:12:09lovasoaDoes anyone knows why the database menus aren't translated ?
22:12:10jhMikeSWidth actual players, Gigabeat S is the only one I know offhand yet I think it still just uses the debounce
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22:12:33bluebroth3ras far as I understand the code all players debounce by 1second
22:12:42jhMikeSyes
22:13:09*bluebroth3r goes trying .5s on mini
22:13:12jhMikeSit was left pretty much where it was from first changing from no debouncing at all
22:13:36bluebroth3rah, so the driver itself had no debouncing first?
22:14:33jhMikeSnone that I know of
22:15:00bluebroth3rhmm, don't have the beast around so can't test that right now.
22:16:08jhMikeSI think the PMIC hardware has debouncing for that line
22:16:13 Quit efyx (Remote host closed the connection)
22:16:47bluebroth3rso a value of 1/10 second should be ok for all players?
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22:17:01jhMikeSONOFD2 event
22:17:55jhMikeSmaybe, probably longer for some because, as I recall the gigabeat F was pretty bad as far as bouncing on insert
22:18:12jhMikeSit sort of inspired the whole thing in the first place
22:19:03bluebroth3rsounds like something that could get testing during DevCon :)
22:19:41kugeldebouncing should be in the drivers, imo
22:19:42jhMikeScould be. noone seems to have hated it enough until now to do anything else with it lol
22:20:23bluebroth3r.5 seconds work fine on mini2g.
22:20:31*bluebroth3r prepares new patch
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22:22:52lovasoaSo, why isn't the database manu
22:22:59lovasoanot translated ?
22:23:02lovasoa*menu
22:23:20kugellovasoa: the menus are loaded from disk, because they're constumizable
22:24:05jhMikeSkugel: probably right about that
22:24:07kugelthey could possibly be translated but it wouldn't take effect until reboot
22:24:26kugeljhMikeS: this is something "userland" shouldn't be concerned with
22:24:49lovasoaI mean "localized", not "translated". Sorry for my bad english
22:24:59kugelespecially if it's device dependant and some can do it in HW
22:26:56bluebroth3rwell, is firmware/ "userland"?
22:27:03jhMikeSkugel: indeed, it did the job and was quick to do when there wasn't alot going on, I guess it needs to accomodate more variation now
22:28:02kugelbluebroth3r: I'd say yes for lots of places
22:28:37kugelideally only the target tree should non-userland, but that's not the case currently
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22:28:59kugel(meaning it talks to hardware via abstracted apis)
22:29:11kugel(I also put it into quotes for a reason :) )
22:29:19jhMikeSis it still not very integrated? there initially wasn't much commitment to how it was done anyway
22:29:22bluebroth3rwell, I wouldn't consider firmware/ as userland.
22:29:41bluebroth3rthough I agree that all platform-specific stuff should be done in platform-specific implementations
22:30:00bluebroth3rand a platform requiring a debouncing is platform specific
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22:32:01jhMikeSlooks like 17 targets
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22:36:06*bluebroth3r has the playback stopping issue again ... but only on headphone pause / unpaue :(
22:36:14*kugel screams horribly at talk.c
22:37:16kugelit's blatantly absuing audiobuf
22:37:36jhMikeSkugel: it's used to it!
22:37:58jhMikeShow's it abusing it though?
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22:40:30kugelit accesses directly, in ways not seen in other modules
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22:48:50jhMikeSHP detect just posts to button_queue, probably reasonable to have no HP detect code in there
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23:08:23keyb_grAnyone know whether FS #9420 is still current? (FM tuner drifting off frequency on e200v1 and possibly other LV24020 equipped targets, smells like disabled AFC)
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23:09:01jhMikeSit's supposed to be reenabled after tuning every time
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23:10:45keyb_grSo much for theory, at least.
23:11:26jhMikeSthere was some improvment in the tuning measurement after that task
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23:12:12jhMikeSif a target can use the on-chip measurement because there's a 32kHz signal provided for it, then it probably should do that instead
23:12:33keyb_grAh, OK. There was a guy on the forum reporting bass distortion on FM with his c200v1, so I did some digging.
23:13:01keyb_grFrom what I can see, measurement and AFC are both needed.
23:13:21saratogajhMikeS: i'm talking to sean about his codec library GSOC project, i suspect you'll have a lot to say about that since you just rewrote a lot of that code
23:14:05jhMikeSkeyb_gr: it wouldn't work at all if those weren't implemented but on some targets, there's more SW responsibility because of the lacking signal
23:14:21 Quit Judas_PhD (Quit: This is a quitting message)
23:14:25jhMikeSsaratoga: where, in #rockbox-gsoc?
23:14:49saratogano just via email, hes going to mail the list though
23:15:11saratogadid you look at the original GSOC proposal?
23:15:16jhMikeSok, just so I don't miss, which one?
23:16:00saratogathe "standalone audio library" project
23:16:07*keyb_gr goes off reading LV240xx docs for tuning sans a ref clock
23:16:10jhMikeSiirc, I saw a couple sort of overlapping playback proposals in the wiki. I might have briefly seen the actual submitted one
23:16:40jhMikeSah, that's the really massive one? is that supposed to include all playback features?
23:16:56saratogai'm not sure about playback
23:17:18saratogai think the idea was to get the codecs, metadata and dsp pipeline into their own library which could be used outside of rockbox
23:17:36saratogabut the exact extent of the project isn't entierly firm since we talked about a lot of things during interviews
23:17:36jhMikeSkeyb_gr: it is done sans refclock, but implemented a bit better for PP, noone chimed in and worked it out for others to my knowledge
23:18:12saratogadoing playback would be awesome, but also very difficult for someone just getting to know our code
23:18:15jhMikeSsaratoga: I find that strange. What's so special that anyone would want that?
23:18:52jhMikeSHaven't many codecs been effectively downgraded?
23:18:54saratogatesting mostly, but also allowing codecs to be used by other projects without having to reverse engineer the guts of our playback system
23:19:15jhMikeSI guesss that make sense
23:19:33jhMikeScodec really don't care who runs them
23:19:42kugelsaratoga: why do you talk privately via mail? isn't this the period students should get in touch with the entire community?
23:19:51pixelmakeyb_gr: I haven't experienced this frequency drift in a long time on my c200v1 but I don't use its radio regularly and or for a longer time but I remember having this in earlier stages of the port. Reception isn't too great in general but not bad either
23:20:10*jhMikeS gets the dinner bell...bbs
23:20:16saratogakugel: well i haven't talked privately by email yet, just got his mail saying he was done with exams
23:20:35kugeloh, I understand
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23:22:36saratogabut i would like as much feedback here as possible, i was aiming for a project doing optimization or porting codecs, so i'm a bit out of my element on this project
23:22:51pixelmakeyb_gr: sound quality isn't great on this target anyway, just wondering what he means with "bass distortion"
23:23:07keyb_grjhMikeS: Both e200 and c200 are PP, AFAICS, so that should be OK.
23:23:34keyb_grpixelma: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,27945
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23:25:13keyb_grpixelma: oh, and thanks for your input.
23:27:25n1si remember hearing the c200 radio drift so it got worse and worse reception to the point that i couldn't hear the station at all, retuning to the same station made it clear again, seems worse when the player is warm too :)
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23:30:08pixelman1s: there once was a time where you had to start the radio in the OF to get it on the right track in Rockbox too
23:30:33keyb_grn1s: Yeah, that's what happens if you've got a rather basic LC oscillator for the LO. Really needs AFC to keep it on frequency.
23:32:36bertrikI remember an FS task about the radio not getting recognized sometimes
23:34:52pixelmakeyb_gr: I'm still not sure what he actually hears as I don't remember the radio sounding more bass heavy than on my other targets (which use this common Philips TEA chip). I noticed though that the two tune same stations differently, ain the end you get about the same amount of well tuned stations those just aren't the same
23:34:56kugelwhat is a thumbnail in talk/voice context?
23:35:06pixelmabertrik: yeah, that happened too
23:36:51kugeljhMikeS: do you know?
23:37:40keyb_grpixelma: I don't think frequency response is off, it's just that his c200 apparently doesn't like large FM deviation (which is most likely to appear with heavy bass). Typically an IF bandwidth or off-tuning thing.
23:38:38bertrikIIRC, the datasheet has some recommendations for various settings and I thought we followed those.
23:40:16kugelhuh, didn't we say we have no voice versioning?
23:41:20keyb_grbertrik: I found an appnote for LV2400x and LV24020 datasheet, is that all we have? The bandwidth setting seems new in 24020.
23:41:27pixelmamaybe the FM chip used, just isn't one of the better pieces of hardware ;) wouldn't make me wonder actually
23:42:17kugelI see that voice files clearly have a version
23:43:45keyb_grpixelma: Well, it certainly isn't quite as high-tech as the SiLabs chips and more along the lines of TEA5767 etc.. Anyway, let's see whether things are any different in OF.
23:44:23pixelmakugel: I don't think we said there was no version but what would you do with it? If everything was done correctly the old version file still works with everything that was there before and so is better than no working voice at all if you rely on it
23:45:03kugelyea, but everytime the topic comes up something was not done correctly
23:45:16pixelmakeyb_gr: good luck, it would be nice if things could be improved :)
23:45:27 Quit ender` (Quit: There are two ways of constructing a software design. One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies. And the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies.-- C.A.R. Hoare)
23:46:29pixelmakugel: even with items completely off, I'd still prefer that to nothing
23:47:00kugelbut that's potentially harmful
23:47:15jhMikeSkugel: do I know?
23:47:46pixelmakugel: how is that more harmful than nothing?
23:47:49jhMikeSoh, thumbnail, just one audio clip
23:47:57pixelmaor could possibly be
23:47:58kugelyou notice "nothing"
23:48:23pixelmano, you don't. You won't even be sure if the player turned on
23:48:40kugelthat's not harmful
23:48:53pixelmaunless maybe you set the start screen to WPS or so
23:49:01kugelbut accidentally deleting stuff because the item was wrongly voiced is
23:49:43 Quit bertrik (Quit: :tiuQ)
23:49:53kugelmy current build actually has the delete item misslabled and I hit it. luckily the (also misslabled) yesno question made me wonder and cancel
23:50:01pixelmakugel: that could still happen - you don't notice if it's on or off and it's switched on and then you start pressing buttons randomly...
23:50:24kugelI doubt
23:50:55kugelif it's off and was on the last time before you updated then you know something went wrong with the update
23:51:10pixelmamaybe it could talk something like voice file out of date or so
23:51:53kugelbuiltin "I booted" and "voice out of date" might be useful, even if english only
23:52:05pixelmaI meant the player itself being on or off
23:52:16kugeli know
23:52:53pixelmathen your "it's off and was on" statement doesn't make sense to me
23:53:05kugelI maintain that misslabled (and thus missvoiced) items are more dangerious than unlabled ones
23:53:11pixelmanot sure what you mean with "it"
23:53:23kugelI meant the voice :)
23:53:36kugelsorry
23:54:06pixelmawell, you can't say if voice is off if you don't even know if your player turned on I think
23:55:03kugelthat's why I suggested the builtin "I booted" voice
23:56:30jhMikeSthe headphone pop might clue you in :P
23:57:20saratogabeen playing with the android port today, i'm quite impressed with it
23:57:29saratogathe progress has been huge since i tried it last fall
23:58:07kugeljhMikeS: do you know what a thumbnail in voice context is?
23:58:37jhMikeSkugel: just a single audio clip
23:58:44kugeljhMikeS: also, I'm seeing that the voice file is loaded to audiobuf directly, but audiobuf isn't modified. won't buffering overwrite the voice?

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