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#rockbox log for 2011-06-09

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07:27:00pixelmaany news about reaching freqmod? I'm just wondering if it would make sense to ping him in a channel rather than PM - maybe trying to ask him to come here and try to talk to some guys (whom?)
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08:24:50sideralpixelma: No news. I've repeatedly tried to ping him on IRC (his nick is FreqMod) and via XMPP, without success. I intended to send him an email next.
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08:34:39chrisbcan the sansa e250 and sansa fuze use the same usb cable?
08:35:56[Saint]as far as I know, yes.
08:36:21[Saint]If my understanding is correct all the Sansa dock cables are backward compatible.
08:36:29chrisb[Saint]: that is so good
08:36:57[Saint]Just resist the temptation to try an iPod cable ;)
08:37:04chrisb[Saint]: the e2xx seems to have moved out of production, clip and fuze are still going
08:37:32[Saint]It *will* fit, as it's just a standard Ridax connector, but the pinout id vastly different and it'll kill your DAP.
08:37:54chrisb[Saint]: thanks for the warning
08:38:11[Saint]I found that out the hard way ;)
08:39:11chrisbspeaking of suffering, setting playlists on an iPod classic, which can't be converted to rockbox
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08:39:44[Saint]WHich "Classic" do you speak of?
08:40:10[Saint]All iPod versions (except the later Nanos) are able to be Rockbox'ed
08:41:33[Saint]iPod 1st~4th Gen, 5th~5.5th Gen, and the 6th~6.5th~7th Gen Classics.
08:42:12 Join Zagor [0] (~bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor)
08:42:26chrisb[Saint]: i forget now how to identify it, but I did about a year ago when i first got it
08:42:36chrisband realized i had screwed up
08:42:50chrisbsilver, 160G drive, ipod classic
08:42:50[Saint]A lot has changed since then ;)
08:43:05[Saint]The Classic has been supported for approximatelt 6 months now.
08:43:17[Saint](maybe longer?)
08:43:36chrisb[Saint]: that's great news!!!!
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08:44:52[Saint]chrisb: Presently there is no Rockbox bootloader, so you need to use an application called emCORE to boot the ROckbox image.
08:45:04[Saint]you can check out the installation details here: http://www.freemyipod.org/wiki/EmCORE_Installation
08:46:34[Saint]there are some drawbacks, presently there is no dualboot (you won't be able to use the Apple FW, it's completely removed in the install process), battery life is considerably worse than the OF, and installation means completely formatting the device (so you need to back up any media you want to keep beforehand).
08:46:46CIA-58New commit by 03nls (r29987): libtremor: comment out unused struct member.
08:48:07[Saint]after you have emCORE installed you can get the daily builds from here: http://download.rockbox.org/daily/ipodclassic/
08:48:29pixelmasideral: it's freqmod (sometimes with _ and stuff) in #quassel. I'm sure it's him as he contributed to the client and started the android port with the same name. I try to get some others to ping him as I can't easily do this from my phone
08:49:06n1s[Saint]: only the 6g are classic!
08:49:31[Saint]n1s: All classics are supported I thought?
08:49:48[Saint]Oh...whoops, I totally missinterpreted that.
08:49:50n1sexcept the first 160GB one i think
08:49:56CIA-58r29987 build result: All green
08:50:04 Join xeniter [0] (~xeniter@194.48.133.8)
08:50:18[Saint]the one with the weird HDD? Yeah, that's working now iirc.
08:50:35n1soh, then all of them should work
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08:55:13chrisbwow, that's tremendous progress my serial number ends in X9ZS
08:56:18[Saint]chrisb: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1353 <−− Identifying iPod models
08:56:35chrisbi was looking there
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09:00:05Zagorit's fun to see the build round times coming down gradually since the client change. ccache in action.
09:01:03n1sZagor: will the delta table come back?
09:01:20*chrisb thinks he has the "late 2009" 160GB drive iPod classic
09:01:20Zagoroh right, I forgot about that. yes, I will fix that.
09:01:31n1scool
09:02:07chrisb[Saint]: thanks for the link to the emCore info
09:02:12*chrisb goes to check
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09:34:06*chrisb notices all the creeping cryption in the iPods generation after generation
09:34:38GodEater_wgyou only just noticed? Do you live in a cave? :)
09:35:03chrisbis that the future of all consumer computing devices/
09:35:37chrisbGodEater_wg: yes, i've been away from rockbox
09:35:50*[Saint] wonders what "creeping cryption" is.
09:35:55n1sprobably not, it's also worth noting that previous generations also had encrypted firmware but that was easier to break
09:36:18[Saint]Ah, encryption.
09:36:45[Saint]Heaven forbid a device manufacturer should try to protect it's interests... ;)
09:37:21GodEater_wgchrisb - not necessarily - consumer manufacturers are listening - HTC, motorola and Samsung have all agreed to unlock their future devices.
09:37:37B4gder[Saint]: explain to us exactly how they protect "their interests" this way?
09:37:44n1s[Saint]: what *are* their interests?
09:37:46*GodEater_wg would also be interested to hear this
09:39:46GodEater_wgB4gder: Is it possible to have an @rockbox.org address forward to more than one email address?
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09:40:04B4gderyes sure
09:40:41[Saint]It's protection, albeit not complete, against average Joe dissassembling/modifying the FW...device manufacturers that actually *want* this to happen are a fairly recent thing.
09:41:06GodEater_wgthis does not explain how it protects the manufacturer's interests.
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09:58:18***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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10:17:50TheLemonManpamaury, ping
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10:35:33pamauryTheLemonMan: pong
10:36:16TheLemonMangot some spare time tonight and coded something to extract the blob from an usbsnoop log
10:36:32TheLemonMantoo bad it doesnt seem to work when uploaded to the device
10:37:52pamauryhow do you know it doesn't work ?
10:39:03TheLemonMani can resend the payload again without resetting
10:39:27TheLemonManthat means the device hasnt loaded the payload
10:39:35TheLemonManor at least that hasnt reinited the usb
10:40:55pamaurymy guess is that it doesn't reinit usb
10:41:08pamauryit just handles more commands
10:41:33TheLemonManis that possible ?
10:41:37pamauryyes
10:41:44pamauryI think so
10:46:02pamaurydo you have the binary blob downloaded on the device ?
10:46:15TheLemonManyep
10:46:17pamauryWould you mind sending it to me ?
10:47:16TheLemonManhuh, i tried opening it with sbinfo and it gave me "ERROR: invalid key file (not enough keys): Success"
10:47:24TheLemonMani guess they used real keys :|
10:47:49pamaurynot so sure
10:48:11pamaurythe key has to be written somewhere on the device, I can't see how could it be different from the one of the main firmware
10:48:11TheLemonManwell, no, there are 3 keys needed
10:48:20TheLemonManthe first one is zero
10:48:44pamauryok, send it to me, I'll have a look. You don't really need all the keys iirc
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10:55:56TheLemonMani tried opening it in ida/objdump but all i got was meaningless opcodes
10:56:02TheLemonManbut strings are all in place
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11:08:24pamauryelftosb gives me Bad file version
11:08:31pamaury* format
11:09:44TheLemonMansbinfo says hashes are ok so i guess the file is not corrupted
11:11:00 Quit jfc (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
11:12:38pamaurybut I enhanced sbinfo to check the format version and apparently is doesn't match. I have to check that
11:13:23pamauryindeed, minor version doesn't match. weird
11:14:03TheLemonMani guess they didnt changed the format that much
11:14:20pamaurylet's see
11:18:14pamauryok, the first key is indeed 0
11:18:39 Quit S_a_i_n_t (Quit: Imagination is for turbo-nerds who can't handle how kick-butt reality is. I'm a kick-butt reality master! I would rather die, than be imaginative. I mean that.)
11:18:40pamauryif you want to make it work, just just use a key file with 3 zeroes keys. The tool will ignore bad ones
11:20:18TheLemonMani did that but got a file that looks corrupted
11:20:45TheLemonMani can see the strings but when i load it in IDA it gives random opcodes
11:21:33CIA-58New commit by 03pamaury (r29988): sbtoelf: add environment command to ignore format version checks (some files do not match it seems)
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11:24:39CIA-58r29988 build result: All green
11:25:53pamauryTheLemonMan: it's thumb mode, entry point is at 0xB18
11:26:21 Quit liar (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
11:26:34pamaurymake sure you are using the latest version of the tool. My repo is not up to date, the reference version is in the rockbox repo
11:27:18TheLemonManhurr durr, sbtoelf gives me a segfault
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11:28:39TheLemonManfound the problem, you should first check for env variable before using it
11:30:18pamauryok I'll fix that, strange that it works on my computer then. And on others too :-/
11:31:24TheLemonManusing strcasecmp would be better too
11:34:18 Quit [Saint] (Quit: Imagination is for turbo-nerds who can't handle how kick-butt reality is. I'm a kick-butt reality master! I would rather die, than be imaginative. I mean that.)
11:35:37pamaurywhy not
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11:37:38sideralJdGordon: What's the reason for allowing soft key lock only in the WPS screen? Shouldn't this be a decision of the key map?
11:39:22CIA-58New commit by 03pamaury (r29989): sbtools: always check the result of getenv against NULL, use strcasecmp instead of strcmp more greater flexibility ...
11:42:21CIA-58r29989 build result: All green
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11:58:20***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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12:18:38*[Saint] wonders if it's possible (for whoever it is that maintains the forums) to add the field "IRC" to the forum profile information page.
12:20:12AlexP[Saint]: scorche
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12:35:25GodEater_wgB4gder / Zagor - any smart ideas about how I reply to list messages now with my rockbox.org email address as the one I've subscribed to the lists from?
12:35:59GodEater_wgI just tried replying to a -committers message, but I'm guessing it's just been dumped because it didn't come from the rockbox.org one
12:36:53pamauryGodEater_wg: some mail client/webmail allow you to send a message from any email address as long as you have proved that you are the owner of this address
12:38:34GodEater_wgOutlook doesn't it seems.
12:39:09preglowGodEater_wg: i pretty much had to make a new account with all the usual settings i have and @rockbox.org set as my reply address
12:39:18preglowthunderbird
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12:41:28GodEater_wgCan't use anything but outlook here at the office.
12:43:18GodEater_wgjoin #rockbox-community
12:43:20GodEater_wgoops
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13:19:54B4gderthere was a post today on the git list about someone tagging every svn commit in git when converted, resuling in over 100K tags and a git repo that crawls...
13:20:08TorneYeah I'm not going to do that :0
13:20:28Tornei'm going to write you a nice recipe that finds the git commit for a given svn revision that you can put in backticks
13:20:38B4gdercool
13:20:39Torneor an alias, or whatever.
13:20:47Tornebased on just the commit message having it in a standard format
13:21:16Tornegit log searching is fast enough that that's fine
13:21:28Torneyou just need a sufficently clever regex to eliminate false positives
13:21:39Tornewell, and it's import-tool-dependent i guess.
13:21:45Tornegonna experiment with that one later today
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13:34:29s__Chello
13:34:52s__Cfor the last few weeks, i'm a happy rockbox user on my ipod classic
13:35:08s__Cnow i just have one problem, which isn't hardware related
13:35:28s__Cwhen i update my database, i get 3 times the same song in the taglist
13:35:50s__Ceven if i remove the database and perform a new check it remains 3x
13:35:57s__Chow to fix it ?
13:36:16[Saint]check your disk for filesystem corruption.
13:37:15s__Cok
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13:39:27[Saint]Yeah, scan for/fix any filesystem errors, then for a re-init of the database by either manually removing the *.tcd files in /.rockbox or via the tools menu in emCORE
13:39:41[Saint]*s/for a/force a/
13:41:48s__Cwill the dock output soon be supported ?
13:41:56s__Ci mean for the sound
13:43:45siderals__C: If a filesystem repair doesn't fix this: Before you reinitialize the database, could you please make a backup copy of the /.rockbox/database.* files so that I can have a look at the corruption? Assuming you're willing to share the database, of course
13:44:03s__Cok no problem
13:44:11[Saint]People never really enjoy the answers to such questions....
13:44:36[Saint]Being a volunteer project & all, the answer is pretty much "maybe it will be, maybe it won't"
13:45:50s__Cwhy is there database_0, database_1 in .rockbox ?
13:46:10s__Cas well as database_idx.tcd ?
13:46:52sideralthe various files contain different tags, and are all indexed by the _idc file
13:47:05siderals/idc/idx/
13:47:24s__Ccan i remove all of them ?
13:47:30[Saint]yes.
13:47:35sideralafter you have backed them up
13:47:38sideralall of them
13:47:41sideral:)
13:47:50[Saint]If you want to guarantee you remove the database...do it via emCORE
13:48:12s__Cok
13:48:24s__Cbut i already tried that 4 times unsuccessfully
13:48:54s__Cthat's why i'm asking here
13:49:02[Saint]what was unseccessful? the file removeal?
13:49:10[Saint]*removal?
13:49:11s__Cno
13:49:20s__Cthe process you invited me to do
13:49:47n1s[Saint]: why would it be safer through emcore?
13:49:58[Saint]you've already verified there are no FS errors, and re-inited the database four times already>?
13:50:05sideralhave you verified that there are indeed no duplicates on the disk, for example in a trashbin folder?
13:50:15[Saint]n1s: Not safer...just, not prone to user error.
13:50:27[Saint]emCORE won't miss anything ;)
13:51:24sideralthat is, if you look at the track's properties (in the DB browser's context menu), do all duplicate entries refer to the same file?
13:51:46sideralAlso, how many tracks do you have on the device, and are you using automatic DB updating?
13:52:08[Saint]Hmmmm...maybe it might be handy if Rockbox had a "kill the database" function.
13:52:33[Saint]Perhaps I'll add .idx and .tcd files to the disktidy plugin.
13:52:35sideralSaint: Well, the DB init function pretty much does that
13:52:35n1si thought initialize now was supposed to do that
13:53:33[Saint]It won't remove them if they're corrupted. reiniting the db will leave corrupt .tcd files in place in my experience.
13:54:10sideralSaint: Hmm, that would be a bug. Could you please file a report if you manage to reproduce it?
13:56:02[Saint]Another reason I think it might be handy to add database files to the disktidy plugin is that you might not want to use the database again after killing it.
13:57:30sideralUnimaginable ;) but yeah, why not
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14:00:15AlexPJust make sure they aren't enabled by default, otherwise I suspect we'll get some unhappy punters :)
14:00:16s__Call files correctly removed by emcore
14:00:20s__Cnow it updates again
14:01:29[Saint]AlexP: No files/extensions are supposed to be enabled by default in the disktidy config are they?
14:01:46AlexP[Saint]: Probably not, but no idea
14:01:54AlexPI haven't looked at it in a long time :)
14:02:16[Saint]I seem to remember a warning somewhere in the config saying something vaguely similar.
14:07:14s__Cmhh
14:07:16s__Cfailed
14:07:33s__Cdo you want my database files ?
14:07:49s__Cit's like if the update of the database was looped 3 times
14:07:53[Saint]s__C: Can you verify that there isn't a trash folder on the device?
14:08:04s__Cyes there is one
14:08:07s__Cit's emtpy
14:08:21[Saint](this may involve the enabling of viewing hidden and system files in Windows)
14:08:49s__Cthe linux user know how to proceed
14:10:24s__Cyeah the process is looped
14:10:33s__Ccan i stop it once for all ?
14:10:52[Saint]How do you know it's looping? How are you confirming this?
14:11:30s__Cwhen i try to access the database...
14:11:38s__Ci rebooted once because it was finished
14:11:52s__Cand when i access it sth is still running
14:12:09[Saint]Out of curiousity....how are you rebooting?
14:12:34s__Cwith the stop button
14:12:39s__Cnot hard reboot
14:12:47s__Cwith middle and up
14:12:55s__Ci use play/pause
14:14:03siderals__C: Yes, I do want to have a look at the database files.
14:14:21sideralThis is with Rockbox 3.8.1 I assume?
14:15:11sideralIf the files aren't huge or embarrassing / private, could you please open a Flyspray bug report and attach them there?
14:15:21Torneembarrassing :)
14:15:32Torne"yeah my database is all kylie. all te time."
14:15:53siderals__C: How many tracks do you have on the device, and are you using automatic DB updating?
14:16:12s__Cyes
14:17:06sideralyes to all four questions? ;)
14:20:20s__Cversion is r2964M-110325
14:20:38s__Cso dunno if it's 3.8.3
14:20:42s__C*3.8.1
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14:23:42n1ss__C: you built it yourself?
14:23:53s__Cno it's from freemypod
14:24:40 Quit krazykit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
14:24:47n1scould you try with a rockbox build from our site, either a current or release build?
14:25:52s__Ctell me how to use it n1s ...
14:25:59s__Cor anyone else
14:27:06n1shttp://build.rockbox.org/data/rockbox-ipodclassic.zip unzip it over the old .rockbox dir
14:27:38s__Cok thx i'll try right now
14:36:24s__Coh
14:36:31s__Cno more problems....
14:37:10s__Cthe new build is nicer too
14:37:15s__Csorry for all the mess
14:37:36s__Ci think there was something between the auto update database and all the mounts / unmounts
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14:54:51JdGordonsideral: it wasnt my descision... it was imported from very very old code
14:54:57JdGordoni.e 5+ years ago
14:55:28sideralJdGordon: Older than keymaps, possibly?
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14:56:27[Saint]...Older than Jesus.
14:57:01sideralOK, I'll go ask Moses then
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15:00:15JdGordonyes, older than keybaps
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21:23:36AlexPHmmm, release schedule has us freezing on Monday
21:23:44AlexPAny comments? :)
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21:28:42pixelmawe should try to make it a r30000 release ;)
21:29:27Tornei guess we do that
21:29:36Torne:)
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21:47:24bertrikour MajorChanges list isn't that long this time
21:47:41AlexPWe haven't done anything :)
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22:03:20LloreanWhat status is the FuzeV2 port supposed to be?
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22:03:35LloreanI don't see it on the front page.
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22:09:16bertrikI think it's supposed to work fine, just as good as the clip+ for example
22:09:59bertrikIt seems we don't differentiate between players that are different inside but look the same outside on the main page, like clipv1 and clipv2
22:10:07TorneLlorean: I believe the intention is that "clip" and "fuze" refer to both versions
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22:11:53Lloreanbertrik: We have some v2s listed in separate categories though
22:12:01LloreanWhich can give a strong impression we do differentiate them.
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22:12:36LloreanWe should probably remove the lamp plugin from the FuzeV2, or demote the port, since people keep reporting hardware issues with its screen. It's clear we're not only doing something wrong, but something potentially damaging on that one.
22:13:22saratogaLlorean: the brightness is already capped in SVN, its just the older release builds that are a problem
22:13:45saratogaremoving the lamp plugin from the 3.8.1 zip might not be a bad idea though
22:14:05saratogaapparently theres some other hardware revision that can't handle the maximum brightness
22:14:12bertrikI guess it's just the max brightness that's a problem, not the lamp plugin
22:14:53pixelmathe lamp plugin sets the screen to maximum brightness though IIRC
22:15:31saratogayeah so i changed the max brightness in svn a while ago
22:15:33bertriklet's fix the maximum brightness, not hide the problem by removing the plugin
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22:15:54saratogahowever everyone around here has a normal player that has no problem with even the old max brightness
22:16:57LloreanAh, okay
22:17:02saratogait may just be that for some players they switched out LEDs or resistors to ones rated for some other current
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22:17:07pixelmabertrik: you can't fix the release version afterwards which is being talked about despite a new release
22:17:14LloreanFixing 3.8.1 would be nice, but if we're getting 3.8.2 in a few weeks, maybe just taking it down temporarily will be good enough
22:17:18saratogaor maybe they changed something about how they're wired to the voltage regulators
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22:18:05*amiconn wonders whether he can get X5/M5 dualboot in before the release
22:18:20AlexPWe are getting a 3.9 in 2 1/2 weeks
22:18:22bertrikwell OK, I don't get it
22:18:24pixelmabertrik: or in this case - since it's a plugin - you can remove the .rock from the zip for the time being
22:18:32AlexPIf we stick to the schedule :)
22:18:44Lloreanamiconn: Isn't that entirely a bootloader issue anyway?
22:19:00amiconnYes it is
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22:19:19bertrikbut removing the plugin isn't fixing anything, just removing one specific opportunity for the problem to surface
22:19:33bertrikwell, better than doing nothing
22:19:43pixelmabertrik: the talk is about the current 3.8.1 release not the coming
22:19:58amiconnIt would still be nice to have new bootloaders to go with the release - and the patch is touching crt0.S so it should go in before freeze. Or am I missing something?
22:20:27saratogaat least get the crt0.S change in, then i guess release bootloaders whenever they're ready
22:20:28bertrikremoving the plugin from 3.8.1 isn't fixing anything either
22:20:41TorneHm, I still need to see if i can fix the ipod settings reset thing before freeze..
22:20:42saratogawell hopefully its "fixed" in SVN
22:20:47amiconnIn order for this to work, I have to move the On vs. Hold detection into crt0.S, at least partially
22:21:43saratogaremoving it in 3.8.1 would at least reduce the odds that anyone else breaks their player
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22:21:43pixelmabertrik: it's removing one of the sources where people can mess up and get into serious trouble
22:22:01bertrikok, probably the most common cause indeed
22:22:18amiconnsaratoga: The crt0.S and bootloader changes are interdependent
22:22:31saratogaah ok
22:23:02amiconnIf I'm going for the partial move that is - then crt0.S would have to set a variable that bootloader/iaudio_coldfire.c reads later
22:23:58*amiconn wonders whether we can do anything about the OF obviously not liking SSDs
22:24:15amiconnAt least mine - it will shut down after reporting a harddisk error
22:24:21amiconnWith a real hdd, it works
22:24:36 Quit robin0800 (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
22:24:56amiconnThe funny thing is that the preloader (also Cowon's code) is working fine with that same ssd
22:25:18amiconnOtherwise I wouldn't be able to flash
22:26:05amiconnHmm, actually even the preloader might have a problem too. Usually it should delete the flash file after successful flashing, but now I remember that it didn't
22:26:25Tornemaybe it doesn't like sector size?
22:26:31amiconnSo it probably fails on write, but is reading the ssd fine
22:26:55amiconnPlain bog standard 512 bytes/sector
22:26:59Tornehm
22:28:19bertrikmaybe we could simply pass an argument to main()?
22:28:46CIA-58New commit by 03thomasjfox (r29990): Pandora port: Fix rockbox share directory path (it has to end on /rockbox)
22:31:36thomasjfoxlinuxstb: ping
22:32:26CIA-58r29990 build result: All green
22:33:44linuxstbthomasjfox: Hi
22:33:50thomasjfoxlinuxstb: hey there
22:34:16thomasjfoxlinuxstb: I'd like to commit FS #12148. Could you take a quick look at it? It's a build system modification
22:34:31thomasjfoxlinuxstb: The "FIXME" part is fixed now and will be omited
22:34:42 Quit ReimuHakurei (Quit: If I use this, I will disappear, and Shana-tan will remain...)
22:40:37linuxstbthomasjfox: I've just taken a look, but know nothing about your pandora port. It seems harmless to other ports though... One suggestion would be to change the help text in root.make to something like "pnd - creates rockbox.pnd archive (Pandora builds only)"
22:40:54thomasjfoxlinuxstb: Sounds good to me
22:41:05thomasjfoxlinuxstb: Thanks for the review, I'll change the text
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22:58:04CIA-58New commit by 03thomasjfox (r29991): Pandora port: Automate rockbox.pnd (=binary archive) build
22:59:37sideralI'd like to know whether people are comfortable with removing fuzzy tag matching for database resurrection of tracks that have been renamed and retagged at the same time. This is causing problems with some podcasts that comprise only similar, same-length tracks (typically radio recordings). FS #12076 <http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12076> has the complete story.
22:59:37bluebrother-bothttp://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12076 3Autoresume feature can start from wrong offset due to resurrection of old runtime stats (bugs, assigned)
23:00
23:00:09sideralroolku views removing this feature as a regression, which I won't be able to fix before the release.
23:00:36sideralSo I could either restore the old behavior for the next release, or we live without the buggy feature for a while
23:01:22CIA-58r29991 build result: All green
23:03:16sideral"Removing this feature" here means making the fuzzy matching less fuzzy to avoid resurrecting old runtime data for tracks that are actually new
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23:04:47 Join sirrozha [0] (~sirrozha@89.23.217.205)
23:05:25AlexPsideral: It is a tricky one that
23:06:24AlexPI'd be inclined to leave the old behaviour until a fix for both can be found, purely as it was "first", and trying to gauge which is the more used feature/bigger problem is hard
23:06:47AlexPBut I don't have a strong opinion either way
23:08:28 Quit MethoS- (Remote host closed the connection)
23:09:23sideralHmm. The old behavior can do the wrong thing (bad stats for a new track), whereas the current, intermediate behavior can miss the right thing (resurrect stats for track that was renamed _and_ retagged). I personally lean towards the latter behavior, which I feel is "more correct".
23:09:38sideralBut I respect roolku's and your view as well. Tricky indeed
23:09:46AlexPWell, I don't really have a view
23:10:21AlexPOnly that in the event that it is a tie, I'd probably lean towards the first one, whichever it was
23:10:32AlexPI'm more likely to be hit by the second myself
23:10:38AlexPin fact only likely
23:10:52AlexPAs resume is the only bit of the db I use :)
23:11:01sideralIt's also still unclear how to make the feature work properly. Right now I'm leaning towards fingerprinting the encoded audio data.
23:11:20AlexPmaybe with two chunks at fixed percentages or something?
23:11:49AlexPI'm trying to think how to try to avoid e.g. blank sections but not taking too much time :)
23:12:23AlexPI think you are right in retrospect that the second option is "less bad"
23:12:34AlexPBut as I say, I don't mind :)
23:13:22sideralMy first try will be fingerprinting just the first 512 bytes, under the theory that silence at the beginning of the track typically is not encoded as all zeroes. Silence in digital audio typically is encoded as pink noise with low volume (IIRC)
23:14:04AlexPIs there a reason for the first 512 as opposed to e.g. 10% in? Avoiding extra disk access or somesuch?
23:14:44sideralbecause it's physically close to the metadata that is already read during the DB update
23:15:13AlexPIs that significant? (I have no idea what the real cost is.)
23:15:19sideralI'd like to avoid seeking as much as possible
23:15:22AlexPOK
23:15:36AlexPThis is of course a good aim :)
23:16:01AlexPI just have no feeling how much overhead it'd be to go e.g. 10% into the track @_
23:16:28sideralme neither, especially as I do not own a hard-disk-based player :)
23:17:21amiconnIt can also be costly on flash based targets
23:17:55AlexPOK
23:18:38amiconnDepending on how long a track is, reading 10% of it could e.g. take several seconds on Ondio
23:19:05AlexPamiconn: Not reading 10%, but reading 512 bytes starting at e.g. 10% into the track
23:19:22AlexPSo for a 2 MB track read 512 bytes starting at 200 k
23:19:30sideralwith a seek? You'd hope that the relevant part of the FAT is already cached, so it would be only 1 seek
23:19:51AlexPanyway, I have no idea what I'm on about so I'll stop talking :)
23:21:00amiconnReading a certain position without taking metadata into account may still miss a track
23:21:49amiconnMetadata size MAY VARY E:G: FOR ID§V"
23:21:54amiconnoops
23:22:04amiconn*may vary, e.g. for id3v2
23:22:09sideralWould you guys think that the current, intermediate behavior is a feature regression that requires a -dev discussion?
23:22:35sideralamiconn: This would seek into the encoded audio, skipping the header. the metadata parsers tell us where the encoded audio starts
23:22:40AlexPI have no idea how much that feature is used
23:23:08AlexPMaybe just drop an email explaining and saying this is what you plan to do and see if anyone shouts?
23:23:19*amiconn would usually vote for removing guesstimation, but can't really comment on this one since he never used db runtime data collection
23:23:29AlexPyeah
23:23:59AlexPI think most people would agree with the intermediate
23:24:05AlexPBut I have no basis for that :)
23:24:41sideralOK, explaining my intention on the mailing list is a good idea
23:25:22sideralThere will still be time to revert to the old behavior after the freeze.
23:25:44AlexPI don't guess that'll be necessary
23:25:49AlexPbut you never know :)
23:27:07sideralroolku found this important enough to reopen the FS issue :)
23:27:28AlexPyeah, it is clearly important to some
23:28:22 Quit pamaury (Remote host closed the connection)
23:30:02sideralAs for new features for the next release: I plan to commit the anti-<Untagged> / basename patches (FS #12132 <http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12132>) before the freeze
23:30:03bluebrother-bothttp://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12132 3tagnavi: Support "basename" in formats and conditions; replace <Untagged> in track views (patches, new)
23:30:34AlexPbasename = filename?
23:31:35sideralbasename = last filename component without the directory paths. (example: basename of /a/b/c.mp3 = c.mp3)
23:31:53sideralthis will be displayed in lieu of the track name of there's no title tag
23:31:57AlexPso yeah, filename :)
23:32:10AlexPanyway, sounds sensible
23:33:47sideralThere's still one class of DB views left that doesn't adhere to my new track %format (Database->*-><All tracks>), but I likely won't be able to complete this before the freeze.
23:40:59sideralI also would have liked to include FS #12054 <http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12054> in the next release, but I probably won't manage to complete it before next week. Configuration is still missing, and there's one annoying misbehavior that still bugs me
23:41:00bluebrother-bothttp://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12054 3Highlight each album's last-played track in database views - great for audiobooks and podcasts (patches, new)
23:41:45 Quit sirrozha ()
23:43:28 Quit evilnick_B (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
23:46:13 Quit thomasjfox (Remote host closed the connection)
23:50:02sideralAlexP, pixelma: Have you been able to contact freqmod in another channel?
23:50:13AlexPsideral: pixelma has tried
23:50:22AlexPNo response that I'm aware of yet
23:50:43sideralOK, that matches my results. I'll try shooting him an email.
23:50:52 Join HaimN [0] (~quassel@95.86.119.222)
23:51:32kugelwhy do you guys want to contact freqmod btw?
23:51:47sideralto verify he's the author of the wikipedia plugin
23:52:12sideraland that what we think is his real name really is
23:53:29kugelah I see
23:54:56sideralkugel: I've read your GSoC weekly report with interest. I think you're heading into the right direction with the API and the dircache rework. But I have one question / concern:
23:56:35sideralI think compaction of dircache, tagcache, and probably also skin data is not likely to reap any measurable benefit for the complexity this entails. If I were you, I'd drop this from the scope and focus solely on audio-buffer compaction
23:58:22kugelcompaction means the entire buffer is compacted, and individual allocation moved around
23:58:36***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:58:36kugelindividual allocation are generally not compacted

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