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#rockbox log for 2011-07-24

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00:22:16garadenHi all, I'm having trouble with Rockbox 3.9 on my Sansa e260v2: it occasionally skips to the next song in the middle of a song. This didn't happen when I was running 3.7.1
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01:33:38bertrikusing the battery current formula for the non-64mb ipod video on the nano 1g, gives me about 25 mA playback current
01:34:17bertrikThis appears to be consistent with the nano 1g runtime posted on the IpodRuntime wiki page.
01:34:37bertrikI think I'll commit this tomorrow
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02:16:27bluefoxxIs anybody else getting a data abort (0x004D0EC) with yesterday's daily build for the e200?
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02:46:10bluefoxxPeh, fixed by updating the player to 3.9 instead.
02:46:33bluefoxxThing is going to my grandfather so stability is good. Still strange though, my own e200 has the exact same file contents and is fine
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08:07:36evildaemonHello, my question is hopefully very simple. I have an ipod (nano 2G I believe.) which is missing firmware, is it still possible to attempt the rockbox installation without it? thank you in advance for support.
08:10:16 Quit powell14ski_ (Quit: powell14ski_)
08:12:38[Saint]evildaemon: Can you please define "missing the firmware"?
08:13:14evildaemonUh, missing all partitions period.
08:13:40[Saint]Then no, it won't be detected as an iPod, and Rockbox will not install.
08:13:48[Saint]Have you tried a restore with iTunes?
08:13:55evildaemonNo.
08:13:59[Saint]Please do.
08:14:00evildaemonI'll fix it.
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10:23:09bertrikIn powermgmt.c we estimate the battery current by adding all kinds of current estimates of sub-systems (backlight, recording, ata, spdif, etc.). But on some targets we can measure the battery current directly, shouldn't we use that instead.
10:29:30amiconnA measurement is not an average
10:29:43bertrikI know
10:30:05amiconnAlso the subsystem current is based on settings
10:30:35amiconnWe might use the current measurement, but then we have to average across a long time (i.e. record history)
10:31:26amiconnEven then the estimation wouldn't reflect settings changes immediately
10:31:28bertrikThe current estimate is just a point measurement too, as far as I can tell. How is it better than measuring it directly?
10:32:02amiconnIt's not a point measurement
10:32:22amiconnIt's adding up averages
10:33:06amiconnIf I change backlight to *always* on, I *expect* the runtime estimation to go down. How would that work with measured current?
10:33:38bertrikIt's adding up pre-defined values
10:33:49bertrikIf the backlight is on, you would measure the backlight current
10:34:00bertrik(as part of the total battery current)
10:34:35amiconnYes, but it would take hours to show up in the estimation, because we'd have to average the measurement
10:35:37amiconnThe pre-defined values *are* averages. There are vast variations in current
10:36:24bertrikHm, well I think you're trying to make the runtime estimation look a lot more advanced than it really is :)
10:36:31amiconnOn hdd targets spinning up the disk increases the current by factors
10:37:05bertrikWhat do we estimate really? We must be making some assumptions when doing the estimate, but I don't know which ones.
10:37:17amiconnE.g. average current on the archoses (2.5") is ~120mA iirc, but spin-up current is up to 1A (depending on the disk type)
10:37:56amiconnOf course there are assumptions
10:38:13bertrikBut the number of spin-ups can depend on the type of codec used (e.g. flac vs mp3), so how can you know the average?
10:38:32amiconnBase current is the average of playing back mp3, without backlight
10:38:51amiconnBacklight is added if it's set to always-on, otherwise it's neglected
10:39:20bertrikAh, true
10:39:47kugelwhat if you set it to always on, but off on hold?
10:39:52amiconnSure, the number of spinups depends on the codec, but then I don't know of a practical way to include that into the estimation
10:40:06kugelthat's what I did when I still used mp3 players ;)
10:40:49kugelIMO measuring is better
10:40:51[Saint]kugel: That's an...interesting case. ;)
10:40:54amiconnSomewhere you have to draw the line for the estimation, otherwise it gets too complex
10:41:01[Saint]that would throw it off quite well I;d assume.
10:41:15amiconnOn targets with variable backlight brightess that isn't taken into account either
10:42:29amiconnFor swcodec it also matters how demanding the codec is - extremes are e.g. flac vs. ape
10:43:02amiconnAfter all it is just an estimation based on assumptions
10:44:04bertrikFor targets with direct battery current measurement, we could estimate based on the average current in (say) the last 5 minutes and probably get a much more accurate runtime estimate.
10:44:17amiconnThe difference of adding up estimated currents vs. using measured current is that with the latter you cannot adjust the estimation immediately when settings are changed, or within a short time window
10:45:41amiconn5 minutes is far too low, given that on a typical 32MB hdd based target, a spinup occurs e.g. every ~20 minutes when playing ~192kbps files
10:45:45kugelthe estimates might be completely off due to the usual copying of config/<target>.h files when doing new ports
10:46:07amiconnThat's a different matter
10:47:03kugelit's a matter of additional maintanance burden to keep that estimates right
10:47:13kugelI could never be bothered
10:47:16amiconnsure
10:47:56amiconnBut I still think we get a better estimation this way (on targets which are calibrated properly) compared to using current measurement
10:48:16amiconnBesides, the latter is only possible on a (small?) fraction of all targets
10:48:59kugela spinup every 20 min for like 10(?) seconds won't make a big difference in the end, 5min should be fine
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11:01:23bertrikI still think we can do a bit better than we do currently, it just takes someone to come up with a good implementation.
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11:09:58Buschelbertrik: you might have a look at FS #10890
11:09:59fs-bluebothttp://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/10890 3Dynamic runtime estimation (iPod Video, iPod nano 2G) (patches, assigned)
11:10:41[Saint]I used to run that patch on N2G...but since forgot about it.
11:10:47[Saint]It worked well, *very* well.
11:12:13Buschelit uses 1024 seconds as time constant, which is sufficient for flash based players. HDD based players require even larger time constants −− especially those with large RAM
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11:13:33[Saint]Hmmm, that's right. I rememebr now. It fell badly out of sync during the iPod Video unification, and I carved it out of my tree as it was too much effort to maintain at the time.
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11:14:40Buschelit would be easy to define different time constants for different players
11:15:17Buschelmaybe also provided via a specific get-function
11:16:03Buschelsimilar to the added "read_battery_current()"
11:16:22kugelI doubt buffering-only hdd spins make enough of a difference to matter
11:16:36Buschelthey do
11:18:33kugelBuschel: in amiconn scenario it's about 5% difference
11:19:08BuschelI remember that buffering each 20 min (on my iPod Video with 32MB of RAM) equals at least 0.5 mA of average current consumption. that was with ~200 kbps files.
11:19:15kugelso, add 5% or 10% to the measured current and use a short time constant
11:19:21Buschelfor flac or other high bitrates this might be much more
11:21:06kugelflac will be within that 1024s
11:21:48Buschelyes, I wanted to say "...might be much more current consumption"
11:22:26Buschelfor flac shorted time constants are fine. for lower bitrates or iPod withs 64 MB of RAM the buffering occurs after much more than 20 minutes
11:24:57kugelwhat's the total current in your 0.5ma scenario?
11:24:57Buschellet me check...
11:24:57Buschelshould be in the range of 20-24 mA
11:24:57amiconnIt depends a lot on the target (= memory) and the bitrate
11:24:57amiconnProbably the most extreme case is playing wav on archos (through the plugin)
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12:51:37*ukleinek really wonders about the original firmware of his neo x66
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12:57:24[Saint]I wouldn't wonder too hard ;)
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13:02:44ukleinekthere are many typos and I already found a wrong animation. They don't seem to have test engineers that are too critical.
13:05:16[Saint]If you do convince yourself this is a road to go down, you need to look at: Is there a firmware upgrade process, if so...how are updates passed to the player? Are the updates signed and/or encrypted? Is there a recovery process for a abd flash or will I have a brick if I flash something it does not like? etc. etc
13:05:42[Saint]*s/for a abd/for a bad/
13:06:25[Saint]Start finding out as much as you can about the players hardware.
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13:06:47[Saint]What is in it? Can I get datasheets for <part X>?
13:07:25[Saint]Scans of the PCB are always good, this *will* involve opening the device. Is this something I'm prepared/able to do?
13:07:46[Saint]checkout the NewPorts page on the wiki
13:08:37[Saint]the huge question is really..."Am I prepared to do all this work myself, or is this device common enough that I might be able to find others interested?"
13:08:54[Saint]hint: ALWAYS expect to do ALL of the work yourself.
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13:14:22ukleinek[Saint]: was that address to me?
13:14:31[Saint]'twas indeed.
13:15:03ukleinek[Saint]: it has a rockchip2705 cpu (according to a forum entry I found)
13:15:37*ukleinek already read http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/Rockchip27xx, but not everything there works as described
13:15:52evilnickukleinek: The point is that you should provide this information on the Wiki as a NewPort - just mentioning it to [Saint] doesn't mean that anything will get done.
13:16:05ukleinekevilnick: that's clear
13:20:30ukleinekgrr, ipv6 on rockbock.org is borken again, worked earlier today
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13:58:51boghogah, yeah I was wondering why it wouldn't load
13:59:11boghogit's a bit sad but I end up disabling ipv6 in firefox a lot :/ I'm not sure why it can't just fallback to IPv4
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14:01:13boghogwell actually it won't load over ipv4 either this time so I guess it's not that
14:01:14ukleinekboghog: right
14:01:20ukleinekand I think it's not easy to fall back to ipv4 in a more clever way that the os
14:01:30gevaertsWorks fine for me (ipv4)
14:01:51boghogbtoh ipv4/ipv6 hang on connecting for me: Connecting to www.rockbox.org|80.67.6.50|:80... ^C
14:01:52ukleinekgevaerts: I started a ping and only got back packets 19 and later
14:03:07ukleinekping6 doesn't work at all
14:03:07gevaertsukleinek: ah, right. It seems to be a bit unstable
14:03:25boghoghuh that is weird, same thing here with ping, traceroute wouldn't work, then I pinged it, and got replies after the 6 ping request, and then suddenly traceroute worked
14:03:31boghogand now the site loads normally
14:03:35ukleinekfor ping6 I just got back [53; 60]
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14:04:29ukleinek70% loss at 10ge-ams-ix.ams1.portlane.net
14:06:07boghoganyway as for ipv6/ipv4 fallback, I once read or heard somewhere that some browser (chrome maybe? hmm) would fire both an ipv4 and ipv6 connection simultaneously and just worked with the first established connection
14:06:16ukleinekboghog: yeah, that would work, and I think it's chrome that does so (and was critizised for it IIRC)
14:08:35 Quit kadoban_ (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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14:25:56*[Saint] connects to rockbox.org file in ipv4 in FF and Chrome
14:26:06[Saint]*s/file/fine/
14:27:10gevaerts[Saint]: it's intermittent
14:27:47[Saint]hasn't been this way for me, and I've been popping back & forth from the site most of the day.
14:28:44boghogif it's some routing issue then it might not affect everyone
14:29:15ukleinek[Saint]: for me the main culprit is 10ge-ams-ix.ams1.portlane.net, does that occur in your route, too?
14:29:52boghogright now it actually works fine again over ipv4, but still not via ipv6
14:29:54[Saint]to be honest, because it works for me, I can't be bothered putting in much (or any, really) effort into it ;)
14:30:00gevaertsI think that's the data center entry router, so likely yes
14:30:41boghog'traceroute6 www.rockbox.org' hangs at that same point for me, fwiw
14:31:28 Quit dfkt|n ()
14:31:46*ukleinek has $(mtr www.rockbox.org) running, which report 67% and 41% loss at 10ge-ams-ix.ams1.portlane.net for ipv4 and ipv6 resp.
14:32:23ukleinekthe other way around actually
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15:00
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15:21:07s__Chello
15:21:18s__Ci'm the happy user of rockbox on my ipod classic
15:21:45s__Cjust want to sort out why the ipod turns on recharge mode when i connect it to my docking station
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15:22:40 Quit boghog (Quit: boghog)
15:23:45TheSevenbecause you don't press and hold the menu button :)
15:23:47 Quit keyb_gr (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
15:23:54s__Cok
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15:24:16n1ss__C: do you mean that it enter the usb mode?
15:25:12lasserHi! I just updated an e280 v1 to svn and it seems that there is not very much what is still working. Menus and watching photos are ok, but no games, no music, no video. Error: incompatible version or codec failure. Update went by manually unzipping rockbox.zip to device. What is wrong?
15:25:41[Saint]TheSeven: fwfw, it's *any* button (excluding hold).
15:25:52[Saint]...has been for a while now iiuc.
15:25:59s__Cyes n1s
15:26:07s__Cbut the TheSeven trick worked
15:26:09TheSevenso that patch has actually been applied to SVN? good to know that
15:26:18[Saint]TheSeven: Indeedy.
15:26:36s__Cso this is the thing to do
15:26:39n1sTheSeven: so we can't tell a charger from a usb conncetion on the classic?
15:26:42s__Cdefinitely thank you
15:26:58TheSevenn1s: I once tried to implement this, but it didn't work out
15:27:03[Saint]s__C: To make it slightly easier, you don't have to hold the Menu button specifically.
15:27:04s__Canyway
15:27:07s__Cit works
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15:27:11[Saint]You can hold any button other than hold .
15:27:18s__Cbut during this time it isn't charging, right ?
15:27:19TheSeventhere is a way to drive and measure the D+ and D- pins, but I don't know how this works
15:27:27[Saint]s__C: It is, yes.
15:27:47TheSevenand doing it by detecting a bus reset didn't work for some other reason, no idea what exactly
15:27:50n1sTheSeven: ok
15:27:57TheSeveni probably just misunderstood how this interface is supposed to work
15:29:04gevaertslasser: that means the codec and plugin files don't match the main binary. Are you sure you unzipped correctly?
15:29:41n1sTheSeven: is there any way to tell if the host tries to set up a connection at all and bail out of usb if it doesn't?
15:29:54n1siirc that's how it works on some other players
15:31:34 Quit robin0800 (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
15:31:34s__Cok that's perfect
15:31:42s__Cthanks for the help, guys
15:31:46s__Cand once again
15:31:53s__Cgreat work on the ipod classic
15:32:01 Part s__C ("WeeChat 0.3.5")
15:32:31lassergevaerts: sh..., I didn't restart the player. Everything is ok, pardon me, please. I expected a "self restart" of rockbox...
15:32:59gevaertslasser: it didn't give you a prompt?
15:33:16lassergevaerts: no, it did not.
15:33:22gevaertsweird
15:35:00TheSevenn1s: that's the bus reset method that I was referring to
15:35:12TheSevenbut that didn't seem to work out of the box for an unknown (software-side) reason
15:35:30n1sTheSeven: aha
15:36:49lasserby the way, rockbox is really a cool thing. Everytime when I have to use another player-UI I'm glad that rockbox runs on my players. Thanks to all who are contributing to rockbox!
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15:57:44***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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16:12:31*Buschel has got album art for APE tags running now :)
16:12:44Buschelwill provide a patch later this evening
16:13:36bertriknice
16:13:38evilnickNice one, Buschel! Have a \0/
16:14:01*[Saint] declares embedded album art to be a sin in the eyes of man, god, or other ;)
16:14:27Buschelsee you later
16:14:33 Quit Buschel (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 3.6.18/20110614230723])
16:40:39kugelI'm sure embedded AA for APE will make both people happy :)
16:41:28[Saint]Apes can use simple tools...but, can they embed AA? ;)
16:41:30n1skugel: no, only one cares about AA
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17:48:05ssdThe Lua documentation in the wiki seems to be somewhat out of date. I'd be interested in updating it, I've done the preliminary research on what I'd like to add. What do I need to do to get someone to give me write access on the wiki?
17:49:11 Join evilnick [0] (~evilnick@rockbox/staff/evilnick)
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17:49:13[Saint]step one, create an account
17:49:19[Saint](real name please!)
17:50:12ssddone, now what :)
17:50:13[Saint]step two, ask.
17:50:13[Saint]what's your username?
17:50:13ssdadded myself as StevenDick
17:50:13 Join domonoky1 [0] (~Domonoky@agsb-5d853a58.pool.mediaWays.net)
17:51:23ssdAlso, if anyone here cares about rockbox lua I'd be interested in talking about it...
17:52:36 Quit domonoky (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
17:54:18[Saint]ssd: done. Sorry about the delay
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17:54:25ssd'sokay
17:54:32[Saint]the server seems to be sssslllooowww tonight.
17:54:50 Quit boghog (Quit: boghog)
17:54:51lasserssd: I wrote a little script with lua the last days
17:54:57ssdI just hope I don't step on anyone's toes by my edits, but the page seems to be really out of date.
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17:55:59gevaertsssd: I think you're safe :)
17:56:22ssdfor example, it says coroutine and math libraries are unsupported, but I think this is wrong.
17:56:55[Saint]supported in LUA and "supported by Rockbox's LUA plugin" are *completely* diferent things
17:56:58[Saint]remember this.
17:57:28[Saint]If it works in LUA, there's no guarantee it'll work in our LUA plugin.
17:57:40[Saint]it *might*, but, don't bet on it.
17:57:44ssdit appears half of math.* is there
17:57:47***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:58:12ssdI want to document exactly which libraries and functions are there
17:58:22ssdits driving me insane there's no reference
17:58:25 Quit robin0800 (Client Quit)
17:58:39ssd(and obvoiusly, I'd like to link to existing docs where possible rather than duplicate it)
18:00
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18:06:40[Saint]alphabetizing wikiusersgroup won't...like...*break* anything, will it?
18:06:47 Quit evilnick (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
18:06:54gevaerts[Saint]: it's not?
18:07:07[Saint]I ordered it by first name, ans camelcase styling makes ordering by last name too hard to do automagically
18:07:21[Saint]gevaerts: its pretty out of shape.
18:07:34[Saint]I'm hovering over "edit" as I don't want to break anything ;)
18:07:51gevaerts[Saint]: I recommend only fixing this sort of thing if Bagder or Zagor are definitely nearby
18:08:50[Saint]can I not just revert a "fix" if it screws up? assuming at least one of us had edit rights still ;)
18:08:55[Saint]but yes, you're right.
18:08:59[Saint]I shall not hit apply.
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18:22:50ssdOk, initial lua doc updates done, the main library will take longer
18:26:26 Quit evilnick (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
18:29:00kugel[Saint]: depending on how you screw it up you might not be able to revert things :)
18:29:33[Saint]well, I know if my own name was "damaged", I couldn't *personally* revert it, no ;)
18:30:28gevaerts[Saint]: if something goes wrong, it's quite likely that the entire page will be wrong, i.e. someone with admin access would have to fix it
19:00
19:03:33 Quit [Saint] (Quit: Imagination is for turbo-nerds who can't handle how kick-butt reality is. I'm a kick-butt reality master! I would rather die, than be imaginative. I mean that.)
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19:20:51Buschelpatch for AA with APE-tags -> FS #12196
19:20:52fs-bluebothttp://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12196 3Add album art support for APEv2 (patches, new)
19:32:52CIA-14New commit by 03bertrik (r30204): ipod nano 1g: enable readout of battery current through ADC channel 4066_ISTAT
19:35:29 Join castelo [0] (~59b5bbd5@giant.haxx.se)
19:36:00castelohello i need some help
19:36:19casteloi have an ipod nano 2g
19:36:37casteloand i cant turn it on
19:37:26casteloFTL: scheduling bank 1 block 569 for remap
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19:37:55CIA-14r30204 build result: All green
19:38:18castelo?
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19:42:16castelohelp please
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19:44:16gevaertscastelo: not that many people here know about the nano2g. I suspect TheSeven can help best, but I don't know when he'll be near his keyboard
19:47:46castelook tanks
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19:57:48***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:00
20:00:30 Part ssd
20:02:50kugelBuschel: that works?
20:03:33kugelthe 2nd and 3rd strcasecmp are not going to be 0
20:05:51kugelheh, sorry, I didn't look close enough
20:05:59kugelnevermind
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21:00
21:12:19CIA-14New commit by 03pamaury (r30205): sbtools: fix version output, add support for options section and product/component versions in command files
21:12:24CIA-14New commit by 03pamaury (r30206): imx233/fuze+: cleanup sd code
21:12:29CIA-14New commit by 03pamaury (r30207): imx233/fuze+: implement lcd_blit_yuv (untested)
21:16:08CIA-14r30205 build result: All green
21:18:03 Quit Horscht (Quit: Verlassend)
21:18:08CIA-14r30207 build result: 99 errors, 0 warnings (pamaury committed)
21:20:13 Quit robin0800 (Quit: Leaving)
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21:22:06pamaurywow, impressive
21:22:33pamaurythis is strange
21:25:26gevaertspamaury: I'd guess the network problems the server's apparently been having today are responsible for this
21:33:43pamauryyeah, the build table doesn't have any data
21:45:21 Quit Thra11_ (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
21:53:22pamauryhum, I managed to install my bootloader on the fuze+ but now the OF doesn't load correctly :-/
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21:57:49***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:00
22:05:57 Quit y4n (Quit: PÆNTS ØLF!)
22:31:59ukleinekls
22:32:06ukleinekoops, wrong window
22:32:33evildaemonlol
22:32:44evildaemon(Sorry, forgot, no chat speak.)
22:33:02ack` /win 9
22:33:05*ukleinek isn't able to open the system partition of his rk27xx player
22:33:35ack`damn
22:33:37ack`:)
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23:00
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23:14:05 Quit ender` (Quit: A bus station is where the bus stops. A train station is where the train stops. On my desk, I have a workstation.)
23:38:01evildaemonWhat filesystems does rockbox support as storage?
23:38:55tmzt_fat/fat32
23:40:24evildaemonThank you
23:41:21lebelliumJust broke the Cowon C2 while disassembling it
23:41:22lebelliumlol
23:41:44evildaemonWheres the lol in that?
23:42:30 Quit n1s (Remote host closed the connection)
23:43:49lebelliumI'd like to get it work again but as I don't like this player and I have 25 or 26 other players, it's not a big issue. For the moment I take it funny
23:44:33evildaemonOh, I know that feeling.
23:44:59lebelliumI guess I broke the display pin
23:45:06lebelliumthere is very small cut
23:45:16lebelliumbut probably that's enough
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23:56:26CIA-14New commit by 03saratoga (r30208): Commit FS #12111 by Stephan Grossklass. Disables output mixer auto gain control on AMSv2. Should fix occasional distortion reported when running the ...
23:57:51***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"

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