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#rockbox log for 2011-10-01

00:02:07freddybwould you check 30612 so I can make sure it's not from the init order change
00:03:13*Mineo tried different revisions on his clip+ and the problem started with r30589
00:06:29bertriksame on svn r30612, nothing shown on display
00:07:44 Join echelon [0] (~echelon@gateway/tor-sasl/harel)
00:07:55echelonare .m4b files supported?
00:08:48jhMikeSfrom sa9200 it appears to be bombing before the firmware splash
00:10:38 Quit pamaury (Remote host closed the connection)
00:11:23freddybbertrik can you edit main.c and put splash(HZ,"step name"); after suspicious steps of the target version of init() and see how far you get?
00:11:58 Join liar [0] (~liar@clnet-p09-185.ikbnet.co.at)
00:12:05bertrikno, I want to go to sleep in half an hour or so
00:13:52 Quit Jerom1 (Quit: Leaving.)
00:17:32freddybok, good night
00:19:09 Quit bertrik (Quit: And That, My Liege, Is How We Know the Earth to Be Banana Shaped)
00:24:36jhMikeSaccessing XXX.rockbox.org seems to be hit-and-miss
00:25:24echelonaac-he supported in sansa fuze?
00:27:04ZagorjhMikeS: now I can't reach it either
00:30:19 Quit liar (Quit: hallowed are the ori!)
00:32:02freddybjhMikeS: can you try this for me?
00:32:02freddybhttp://www.pastie.org/2619459
00:32:18jhMikeSon a clip in particular or anything that just doesn't boot?
00:33:26freddybanything that doesn't boot
00:35:20jhMikeSjust that one line alone?
00:37:11freddybyep, I wonder if trying user font that early is a problem.
00:38:54jhMikeSnope
00:45:09jhMikeSI had stated that the sa9200 shows the boot splash but not the firmware one, so my guess it it makes it never makes it into show_logo
00:45:09jhMikeSit appears the case on clip as well but the boot splash is really short
00:45:09 Quit logbot (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
00:47:41***ERROR: (Closing Link: giant.haxx.se (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)) from asimov.freenode.net
00:47:41***Cleanup
00:47:41***Cleanup
00:47:41***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:47:41***Exit
01:00
01:16:26DEBUGgethostbyname(2) failed for giant.haxx.se (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99)
01:16:26***Started Dancer V4.16
01:16:26DEBUGgethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99)
01:16:26DEBUGgethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99)
01:16:26DEBUGgethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99)
01:16:26DEBUGgethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99)
01:16:26DEBUGgethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99)
01:16:26DEBUGgethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99)
02:00
02:00:13DEBUGgethostbyname(2) failed for giant.haxx.se (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99)
02:00:13***Started Dancer V4.16
02:00:13DEBUGgethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99)
02:00:13DEBUGgethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99)
02:00:13DEBUGgethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99)
02:00:13DEBUGgethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99)
02:00:13DEBUGgethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99)
02:00:13DEBUGgethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99)
02:00:13DEBUGgethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99)
02:00:13DEBUGgethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99)
02:00:13***Unable to connect to irc.freenode.net on port 6667 (tried 8 times)
02:00:13***Cleanup
02:00:13***Cleanup
02:00:13***No seen item changed, no save performed.
02:00:13***Exit
02:45:10DEBUGgethostbyname(2) failed for giant.haxx.se (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99)
02:45:10***Started Dancer V4.16
02:45:10DEBUGgethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99)
02:45:10DEBUGgethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99)
02:45:10DEBUGgethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99)
02:45:10DEBUGgethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99)
02:45:10DEBUGgethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99)
02:45:10DEBUGgethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99)
02:45:10DEBUGgethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99)
02:45:10DEBUGgethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99)
02:45:10***Unable to connect to irc.freenode.net on port 6667 (tried 8 times)
02:45:10***Cleanup
02:45:10***Cleanup
02:45:10***No seen item changed, no save performed.
02:45:10***Exit
03:00
03:55:38***Started Dancer V4.16
03:55:38DEBUGgethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99)
03:55:38***Connected to irc.freenode.net on port 6667
03:55:38***Logfile for #rockbox started
03:59:36Mode"logbot :+i" by logbot
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04:22:10chkktrihmmm
04:22:11chkktriis rockbox.org down?
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06:00
06:05:03***Started Dancer V4.16
06:05:03DEBUGgethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99)
06:05:03DEBUGgethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99)
06:05:03DEBUGgethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99)
06:05:03DEBUGgethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99)
06:05:03DEBUGgethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99)
06:05:03DEBUGgethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99)
06:05:03DEBUGgethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99)
06:05:03DEBUGgethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99)
06:05:03***Unable to connect to irc.freenode.net on port 6667 (tried 8 times)
06:05:03***Cleanup
06:05:03***Cleanup
06:05:03***No seen item changed, no save performed.
07:00
07:13:52***Started Dancer V4.16
07:13:52DEBUGgethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99)
07:13:52DEBUGgethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99)
07:13:52DEBUGgethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99)
07:13:52DEBUGgethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99)
07:13:52***Connected to irc.freenode.net on port 6667
07:13:52***Logfile for #rockbox started
07:20:52***ERROR: (Closing Link: 127.0.0.1 (Connection timed out)) from irc.freenode.net
07:20:52***Cleanup
07:20:52***Cleanup
07:20:52***No seen item changed, no save performed.
07:20:52***Exit
07:21:04***Started Dancer V4.16
07:21:04***Connected to irc.freenode.net on port 6667
07:21:04***Logfile for #rockbox started
07:21:31Mode"logbot :+i" by logbot
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08:00
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08:03:00wodzis it me or svn is down?
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08:12:23[Saint_AndChat]wodz: not just you.
08:12:43[Saint_AndChat]Rockbox.org is down also.
08:13:02wodzoh
08:13:49wodzI hacked partial updates in lcd driver for rk27xx and wanted commit before I forgot :/
08:14:21[Saint_AndChat]Ah...bugger.
08:14:34[Saint_AndChat]Post-it notes? ;)
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08:39:44KiwiCamCould someone please help with Volume levels for the Sansa Clip? The Clip goes from -81 to 6. What is the measurement used? I gather -81 represents the equivalent of Zero decibels. Correct?
08:40:42Buschel-81...6 should equal -81...+6 dB
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08:51:22KiwiCamDecibels? Thanks. But zero dB is "near total silence", isn't it?
08:51:53n1sno, it's relative to line level
08:52:01Buschel-oo (infinity) is silence. 0 dB is the reference level = full scale
08:53:20Buschel[dB] = 20 * log10 (A / A_ref), A = amplitude, A_ref = full scale amplitude
08:53:42*Buschel will have breakfast now
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08:58:36KiwiCamSorry, but I am still unclear about this. Most dB scales I see, always start at Zero dB and go up. For example: http://www.howstuffworks.com/question124.htm So, how does -81 equate to the Zero dB used in that example please?
09:00
09:03:51n1sthose scales put the reference at "the quietest sound a human can hear", wikipedia has a pretty good explanation of different uses of dB
09:12:40KiwiCamI've been looking at Wikipedia. Perhaps I'm not being clear enough? On the Sansa -81 is silence and 0 is bloody loud. In Wikipedia Silence is equivalent to 0bD and Hearing Damage is at 85bD.
09:13:38KiwiCamSorry. Forgot the link: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Sound_pressure
09:13:40n1sit all depends on where you put the reference value as wikipedia says
09:14:16n1ssecond paragraph "sound level is a logarithmic measure of the effective sound pressure of a sound relative to a reference value."
09:15:05n1swhen you say "Hearing Damage is at 85bD" you put the reference at the lowest sound humans can hear
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09:15:56n1s0dB volume means the full scale that the DAC can output without distorsion, -81bD is 81 decibel lower than that
09:15:59amiconnjhMikeS: Hwcodec boot is also broken. Last time I checked it threw a CPUAdrErr. Kugel provided a partial fix which makes it freeze at the logo instead :(
09:16:57n1sthe actual sound pressure level out of your headphones also depends on the actual headphones
09:19:38KiwiCamnls: That sounds good (excuse the pun). So, -81 is effectively zero bD and 0 on the Clip equates to, say 81bD?
09:20:28KiwiCambD s/b dB
09:21:08***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
09:21:23KiwiCamAnd it's an exponential scale on the Sansa Clip?
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09:22:17n1s0dB volume on the sansa should be roughtly a SPL of 81dB, yes, both are correct uses of dB though so you can say 0 equals 81dB as that makes no sense
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09:22:37n1sas long as -81 is the quietest sound a human can hear
09:22:49n1sdB is always a logarithmical scale
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09:23:53n1soh, and as long as your headphones are ideal I think
09:25:58KiwiCamI asking, because I'd like to create a Volume animation in a theme that actually represents the true increase in sound levels, rather than just a percentage. I see in the forums that this is talked about, but I've yet to come across and actual theme that does this for volume.
09:27:07n1sthe volume in rockbox is not a percentage
09:30:21KiwiCamYes. That's why I want to try an animation that represents the correct increase in volume level. Every theme I've seen so far shows the scale as a percentage. That's wrong, isn't it?
09:31:42n1si'd say most themes use some set of images to represent certain ranges of values, it's not very exact but looks pretty
09:33:01amiconnThe volume isn't a percentage, hence themes don't show it as such.
09:33:11KiwiCamDo you know of any that do represent the volume level increases logarithmically? Or, as close as.
09:33:29n1sKiwiCam: they all do in a sense
09:34:29n1sthe image thing basically shows different images for a range of values say one with an empty bar from -81 to -70, a slightly more filled bar from -71 to -60 and so on
09:34:41n1syou can also show the actual value if you want to
09:35:47n1sthe accuracy of the image representation is up to the theme designer but there's no percentage in it, it's just a less accurate representation of the dB volume
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09:47:08KiwiCamThe way I see the Volume bars drawn is just based on equal increments. Linear. Because dB scale is logarithmic the increase in volume is more dramatic in the lower range and less so as you go higher. This is what I'm looking at http://www.dr-lex.be/info-stuff/volumecontrols.html
09:48:10BuscheldB's are logarithmic levels. if you want to know how perceived loudness is measured you'll need to search the web for keywords like "sone"
09:49:11Buschelto me it sounds like you are not searching for the correct physical way, but for a good user interface. both are different approaches
09:49:16KiwiCamSone. OK. That's new to me. So, I should scale the Volume bar based on Sone, rather than dB?
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09:50:40KiwiCamI'd say that i'm just not using the correct terminology, because of my lack of knowledge in these things.
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09:55:12Buschelsone cannot directly be calculated from dB, but from another unit called "phon". "phon" is connected to sound pressure levels, but depends on the signal spectrum and is weighted to match the huam hearing's sensitivity
09:55:39Buschela quick'n'dirty approach is to assume that +10 dB equals double perceived loudness
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09:58:38Buschelso, for your volume bar you could show 100% bar for 0 dB, 50% for -10 dB, 25% for -20 dB, ...
10:00
10:01:25nrg_lameeeeee
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10:02:26KiwiCamNo. This is what I'm looking at. I have an idea as to how to represent it graphically.
10:02:53chkktri_oh you're here
10:03:25chkktri_Buschel, edited vrc7 emu source now compiling
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10:05:38KiwiCamThanks everyone. I've learnt something new anyway. I'll leave you all to it and I'm going to have a read up on why Sone can't really be calculated from dB's. Cheers.
10:10:11chkktri_Buschel, yup works perfect now
10:10:28Buschelchkktri_: perfect, I'll submit the fix then
10:12:16chkktri_yup
10:12:46chkktri_hmm but first i should check if latest svn works
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10:16:35CIA-14New commit by 03buschel (r30623): Fix detuned VRC7. In VRC7 apu the 2413 emu must run at the default clock rate. Thanks to Mauricio Garrido.
10:18:40CIA-14r30623 build result: 0 errors, 4 warnings (buschel committed)
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10:21:07Buschelah, the good old FOR_NB_SCREENS(i) warnings....
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10:24:43chkktri_well i think i'll report another issue:
10:25:05chkktri_at least on current svn rockbox don't see SD card on D2
10:25:44chkktri_on r30619 also was that problem
10:26:09chkktri_and now if you don't mind i'm goin' to sleep
10:26:23Buschelit would be a good thing if you could track this down to the change which broke this for you
10:26:41chkktri_hmm
10:27:01chkktri_ok but where i should start?
10:27:20Buschelis working with v3.9 (3.9.1)?
10:27:32chkktri_dunno
10:27:43chkktri_never installed relase version
10:27:48Buscheltesting this would be a good start
10:28:18chkktri_well it works at least then first GME patch was commited
10:28:30chkktri_can you remind me number?
10:29:29Buschelfirst commit of libgme was r30264
10:29:33chkktri_ok
10:29:38Buschelthis worked?
10:29:41chkktri_i'll start from here
10:29:44chkktri_yes it worked
10:30:14chkktri_i remember having problems with build which had new element in debug menu
10:30:42chkktri_it was called "buflib allocs" or so
10:30:56chkktri_when did it appeared?
10:32:52Buschelbuflib came in with r30380
10:33:06Buschelyou might check http://www.rockbox.org/since-release.html
10:40:19chkktri_feel like playing game about catching lion in sahara
10:41:07Buschelyou'll need a few iterations of course :)
10:42:07chkktri_ah if could only use more than one CPU in virtualbox
10:42:21Buschel? why this shouldn't work?
10:42:26chkktri_well i can but compilation hangs in some moment
10:42:46chkktri_and i need to wait until something will be done to hdd image
10:43:01chkktri_i mean there were tons of writes =\
10:43:17chkktri_hmm guess i should play with caching
10:43:47bertrikI don't completely understand the problem with FOR_NB_SCREENS, the non-multi screen version just does i = 0
10:43:52BuschelI had quite fast compile times with VirtualBox, similar to VMware −− both using 8 CPUs
10:44:12chkktri_which os do you use?
10:44:24chkktri_i mean linux distro
10:44:25bertrikso basically it appears the compiler's own optimisation causes the warning
10:44:48Buschelbetrik: yes, "i" is declared, then FOR_NB_SREENS(i) just sets it to "i=0". and then that's it. "i" is not touched afterwards.
10:45:11Buschelchkktri_: ubuntu 11.04 (64bit)
10:45:31Buschel(as client)
10:45:39chkktri_hmm
10:45:46chkktri_same here but 32bit
10:45:55Buschelchkktri_: I had used 32bit before. no difference
10:45:57chkktri_make zip
10:46:07chkktri_whoops
10:47:28bertriki is used as an argument, isn't it?
10:47:46chkktri_it's question fir me?
10:47:52bertrikin the call inside FOR_NB_SCREENS
10:47:56chkktri_ah
10:48:45chkktri_aha! r30550 boots correctly
10:49:39chkktri_but there's still those huge delays when i switch tracks
10:49:42chkktri_!5 secs
10:49:46chkktri_~*
10:49:48bertrikDo we really want this warning? It seems now it has sneaked in with gcc 4.6
10:50:23bertrikCan we force it with older compilers?
10:50:38Buschelwell, it showed several code snippets which were obsolete
10:51:30Buschelbetrik: couldn't we just do "i=0; while (i>0);" to avoid this warning?
10:52:03bertrikthat's nasty IMO
10:52:09Buschelhehe :)
10:52:33bertrikif the compiler thinks it's so smart, maybe it can remove the for-loop too if it's not needed
10:54:24bertrikiow, always #define FOR_NB_SCREENS(i) as for(i = 0; i < NB_SCREENS; i++)
10:55:32Buscheltrue
10:56:18Buschelthis should add some bin size though
10:57:52n1sit probably does kill the loop entirely on non remote lcd targets
10:57:52CIA-14New commit by 03wodz (r30624): rk27xx - implement partial lcd updates
10:58:37n1ssince it can prove that it has only 1 iteration
10:58:55Buschelchkktri_: r30550 provides access to the SD card? this is quite near to headrev when bi-secting
10:59:10Buscheln1s: yes, *probably* :)
10:59:29CIA-14r30624 build result: 0 errors, 4 warnings (wodz committed)
11:00
11:00:15wodzthis warnings started to be annoying
11:00:56Lalufubertrik: the compiler will remove a for-loop if it's redundant
11:02:11bertrikI've had a few times where people accused me of needing to fix warnings, but it was this one, it's annoying
11:02:31Buschelbinsize increases by 192 bytes
11:03:05Buschel(on iPod Video)
11:05:13Buschelchanging "i=0;" to "i=0; while (i>0);" does not result in a binsize change
11:06:49Buscheldoes anybody have a gcc 4.6 to check if this fixes the warning?
11:08:41Lalufuchkktri_: if you are looking for the commit that introduced an error I suggest you check out "git bisect"
11:11:12n1sbertrik: there must be something else going on here as if it was a generic issue with the FOR_NB_SCREENS macro i think we'd have a lot more warning
11:11:13n1ss
11:11:39Buschelanyone here who has iPod Video available to double check FS #12303 ?
11:11:40fs-bluebothttp://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12303 3iPod Video USB broken since r30546 (bugs, new)
11:12:31Buscheln1s: if "i" is used outside of FOR_NB_SCREENS(i) −− e.g. for any other loop −− you will not have any warning.
11:13:02n1strue, i would not guess that being the case though
11:13:16n1severywhere else but the se 4 but i might be wrong
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11:13:48Buschelhmm, you will also not have any warning if "i" is used in *any* way. look at apps/gui/list.c, line 72
11:14:22Buscheloops, apps/gui/bitmap/list.c
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11:15:07Lalufuare the build logs available on a web page somewhere?
11:15:47BuschelLalufu: http://build.rockbox.org/dev.cgi -> click on the yellow "4"
11:16:09n1sBuschel: the apps/gui/list.c one is because the viewportmanager_theme_enable function is just #defined to nothing for charcell
11:16:24Lalufuthanks
11:16:33n1sanyway, i've gotta run
11:16:47 Nick jd|afk_til_sat is now known as JdGordon (~jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
11:17:44Buscheln1s: you were looking at the wrong list.c
11:18:15Buschelargh, forget about my last comment
11:18:31Buschelnow I see what you were talking abiut
11:21:09***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11:21:55LalufuI agree with bertrik, just always define the macro to the full for-statement and let the compiler sort it out.
11:21:58Lalufuwhich it will.
11:22:05bertrikhooray for sneaky #defines!
11:24:20BuschelLalufu: as I said before, the compiler does not sort it out (GCC 4.4.4). the binsize for an iPod Video build increases by 192 bytes
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11:29:56amiconnThere is a reason for this macro. Gcc won't optimize a for loop away. While 192 bytes on a target like the ipods isn't much, it is significant on lowmem targets
11:30:05bertrikthat could have been 1 ms of buffer
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11:31:12amiconnEspecially when there's also a limit for the loadable binsize
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11:38:47amiconnFrom looking at the warnings, the problem is *not* the FOR_NB_SCREENS() macro
11:39:03amiconnIf it were, it would hit all single screen target sims
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11:39:32LalufuI'm sorry if I misunderstand something here, but I've tried to reproduce this.
11:39:48amiconnThe problem is rather that the viewportmanager stuff is defined to nothing for charcell - which is a fundamental bug imo
11:40:17Lalufuhttp://pastebin.com/4ey7pSJm has some code and the resulting disassembly, and it looks to me like gcc has optimized the for loop away, as it should.
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11:42:41amiconnSynthetic test cases don't tell much, if anything. Gcc often behaves differently depending on the surrounding code, for unknown reasons.
11:42:50Buschelamiconn: yes, the warning is not caused by the macro itself. but the warning could be fixed at this single place. as I tested before "i=0; while (i>0);" does not increase binsize here (gcc 4.4.4., iPod Video build)
11:43:20amiconnAnd I'm saying the macro doesn't need fixing because it isn't broken
11:43:35amiconnIt's the viewportmanager stuff that's broken on charcell
11:44:28Buschelyour proposal?
11:45:01amiconnThe viewport stuff needs to be fixed
11:45:32*amiconn wanted to get working again on rockbox last WE, but couldn't because buflib is broken too, and he doesn't know how to fix it :\\
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12:05:18LalufuBuschel: how can I see the binsize changes?
12:10:51wodzLalufu: du -b rockbox.bin?
12:11:43wodzLalufu: Or if you want to look in details utils/analysis/bloat-o-meter.py rockbox_old.elf rockbox_new.elf
12:12:11LalufuOK, now I look like a proper idiot. I had assumed that "binsize" referred to an internal gcc thingie.
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12:51:53LloreanMaybe we should put some things before the RSB to clear up some of the questions JdGordon has asked with his leaving, like "should commit privileges expire with inactivity," "should less active people be forbidden from commenting," and "what defines unacceptable aggressive behaviour?"
12:52:25 Quit kadoban (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
12:53:05wodzLlorean: I don't think this will have any usable outcome
12:53:25Lloreanwodz: Any outcome is usable.
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12:53:49wodzI disagree. Dead law is unusable
12:54:01Llorean"Dead law"?
12:54:45LloreanWhat do you mean by the phrase?
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12:57:40wodzlets suppose the verdict will be "X Y Z is considered aggressive behaviour and should not take place in any circumstances" what good will it bring at the end?
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12:58:42Lloreanwodz: Well, right now we have a policy of "anything is acceptable." Some people, if they know we explicitly frown on a behaviour, will at least attempt to avoid doing it.
12:58:46LloreanIt's not like it can make anything worse.
12:59:31wodzStill I disagree
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13:00:11wodzOne can be pain in the ass and polite at the same time
13:00:11LloreanWhy?
13:00:27LloreanSo because we can't define all possible negative behaviours, we shouldn't define any?
13:00:53Buschelwell, we have the "Guidelines for ... IRC channel". isn't this sufficient for any talk?
13:02:00LalufuI remember reading http://rusty.ozlabs.org/?p=196 some time ago, which touches on the same subjects
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13:02:29LloreanBuschel: I guess that's true, but it doesn't address the other two questions.
13:02:49Buschelthta's true
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13:03:34LloreanIf I understand correctly the reason JdGordon's leaving, it's because he feels that those who are less active in the code base shouldn't object to changes made by those who are more active.
13:04:38LloreanIf there's at least a statement of policy on that, either way, new people coming in will know in advance which way the project is likely to go on such issues.
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13:08:43wodzLlorean: I guess he means more If you object please show your way and we can discuss
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13:11:37Lloreanwodz: That's not what he's said, at all.
13:12:57wodzyou see we read his statements differently
13:12:59Lloreanwodz: He said people who haven't done work recently should "shut up and get out of the way of the active developer group"
13:13:12LloreanDescribe to me what part of that says "they should instead suggest alternatives"?
13:13:32pamauryOne of the reason he left is that some people kept objecting him and theses discussions always ended up in one insulting the other and vice versa and/or were not constructive
13:14:20wodzLlorean: I am speaking in general not only about last mail
13:14:31pamauryAnd he definitely wasn't always the first one to fire at the other if I remember well
13:15:44Lloreanpamaury: They almost always ended up in *him* insulting the other
13:15:59LloreanAt one point he even came by IRC *just* to insult, then left immediately after.
13:16:44wodzLlorean: Please be honest at least - your statement at that time was hmm 'controversial
13:16:49wodz' at best
13:17:01wodzwhich doesn't mean he should behave like this
13:17:13Lloreanwodz: Controversial does not mean dishonest.
13:18:34Lloreanwodz: He has a habit of attacking those who disagree with him, rather than discussing just the ideas.
13:19:15wodzLlorean: please give me a favour - stand behind the mirror and say this once more loud do yourself
13:19:25wodz*to
13:19:30Lloreanwodz: I don't even know what you mean by that.
13:19:41LloreanHe's called me an idiot, cursed me out, and insulted me dozens of times.
13:19:56LloreanI challenge you to find quotes of me insulting him. There aren't many, if any.
13:21:11***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:21:37wodzLlorean: As I said - one may be polite and PITA at the same time. The fact you didn't use offending words doesn't mean I like the way you express your feelings.
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13:22:38Lloreanwodz: But I wasn't talking about being a PITA. I was talking about being explicitly insulting
13:22:54Lloreanwodz: So, rather than changing the subject, find some proof of your own statement that I was wrong about being explicitly insulting.
13:23:29Lloreanwodz: You've claimed I was dishonest, so the burden of proof lies on you.
13:23:55LloreanI really don't appreciate people accusing me of lying.
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13:28:04wodzLlorean: Thats quite interesting - I've saw similar statements several times in your mails
13:28:36Lloreanwodz: Similar to what?
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13:34:25wodzsimilar to loudly defending your truthfulness, righteousness, politeness, respect to others point of view etc.
13:36:17LloreanAm I not allowed to defend it?
13:37:09LloreanIt's interesting that you're objecting to me defending it, rather than disproving it.
13:37:52LloreanYou've accused me of being dishonest (a personal attack) and I've asked nothing more from you than proof. Instead of attempting to prove your point, you accuse me of other things.
13:38:37Lloreanwodz: Why is it okay for you to attack my honesty like this, but not okay for me to defend it?
13:41:18wodzDid I say it's not ok to defend? Please show me where did I say something like this
13:42:52Lloreanwodz: You didn't say it's not okay. I've misunderstood your intent.
13:43:07LloreanWhy did you comment on me defending at all, if it's okay for me to do so? How is it relevant here, because I've missed something?
13:47:34wodzBecause it is your habbit to play with words to avoid serious discussion
13:48:20wodzI am simply using your techniques of discussion
13:48:56Lloreanwodz: You've just said it is bad because you think it's "playing with words to avoid serious discussion."
13:49:48LloreanYou've accused me of lying, and of being evasive now. Yet since lying is something objective, you could prove it and have evaded that. And your evasion was, literally, to call me evasive instead.
13:49:51LloreanDo you see the irony in this?
13:50:02LloreanYou've also objected to attacking people... while attacking me.
13:50:24LloreanDo you suppose you could take a break from accusing me of things until you're willing to actually show some evidence I've done it?
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14:01:54wodzLlorean: Reading back logs - I see you agree with me that your statement about code reviews was 'controversial' - so what the fuss is all about?
14:02:38Lloreanwodz: Now I have no idea what you're asking.
14:03:08LloreanCode reviews have nothing to do with anything I've talked about in here today.
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14:03:37wodznow I don't have idea what you're talking about
14:04:51LloreanWhat do you mean?
14:05:12Lloreanwodz: You just said "Llorean: Reading back logs - I see you agree with me that your statement about code reviews was 'controversial' - so what the fuss is all about?" and I asked what code reviews have to do with anything I've said.
14:06:01LloreanI don't even know what discussion you're referencing, so I have no idea what specific idea I might have been talking about back then, or anything.
14:06:12LloreanYou've just randomly brought up some past discussion, and I don't know why or in what context.
14:08:33wodz"Llorean: Please be honest at least - your statement at that time was hmm 'controversial' at best" <- that's the statement which caused your 2 screens long Great Defend Battle (TM)
14:09:36Lloreanwodz: You were referring to a completely unrelated past conversation by "your statement at that time"?
14:09:46LloreanI thought you were referring to something I said in here, in this conversation, a few lines before.
14:09:59LloreanYou can't just refer to something random, without referencing it, and expect people to have any clue what you're talking about.
14:12:04LloreanWhat does my being controversial back then (and I still don't know exactly which conversation you're referencing, so I don't know what I meant by it even) have anything to do with now?
14:13:08wodzWhat does 2 screens of fluent english sentences have to do with anything?
14:14:09LloreanYou're being evasive now.
14:15:17LloreanI asked what your point is. If you don't understand the point of any of my statements, feel free to be specific and I'll answer. The general point though, since you've asked, was "I don't believe I'm typically explicitly insulting, but if you feel I am, and wish to accuse me of lying about it, I would like to see some evidence."
14:16:34wodzThe general point is clear but please show me where I accused you of lying
14:17:25Lloreanwodz: Like I said, when you said "Please be honest" I thought you were referring to my statement in here, today
14:17:53LloreanApparently you were talking about something completely unrelated to this, in a way it was literally impossible for me to know since you made no explicit reference to that conversation.
14:17:56LloreanSo it was my mistake.
14:18:52wodzfine next time I'll provide full back reference
14:19:16LloreanYou need to at least say *what* you're talking about.
14:19:38LloreanIf you don't say anything to indicate you're referring to another conversation, people will assume you're talking about the present. It's pretty typical.
14:20:51LloreanTry saying something like "In the past, you've made controversial statements."
14:21:19LloreanTo which I'd have responded "controversial is fine. People disagree often. My objection is to statements directed at people, and intended to be insulting, rather than just argumentative."
14:27:37wodzLlorean: Read the logs please starting from: "Lloreadn: At one point he even came by IRC *just* to insult, then left immediately after." <- You referred to some event in the past I was well aware of. My next statement was referring to the same event. What is unclear and hard to follow?
14:29:23Lloreanwodz: Because I was talking about a pattern of behaviour, and not a specific incident. I was using that one as an example.
14:29:40wodzme too and?
14:30:39Lloreanwodz: And what. I do see how you could be referring to that time, but I don't feel my statements at that time were controversial at all, so I missed it. I'm sorry.
14:31:08LloreanThere were several other people who agreed with me regarding code review. The fact that I disagreed with JdGordon is no excuse for him to say what he said or act as he did.
14:31:32LloreanMy statements weren't particularly controversial at all there, which is why I missed the connection. But it is my fault for missing that connection, I see this now that you've pointed out how they were connected.
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15:01:11astraxHi, is the Rockbox app on Android still undergoing development?
15:01:22wodzyes
15:02:09astraxI see, is there a changelog somewhere?
15:03:26wodzsvn changelog
15:04:41astraxthanks
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15:21:26ThomCollHi, any news on the Samsung YP-Q2 development?
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15:24:31[Saint_AndChat]TheSeven: what was the compression used in the emBIOS/CORE installer, and what was its footprint?
15:24:40TheSevenucl
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15:25:20[Saint_AndChat]Ah, right. Perhaps you should reply to the backtrace thread on the ml?
15:25:46TheSevenwith a clever implementation it can be decompressed with 12% memory overhead in the worst case, assuming the unpacked size is known in advance
15:25:59[Saint_AndChat]Seems lightweight compression/decompression is wanted/needed there.
15:26:01TheSeveni'm not sure how well it will work on text
15:26:08[Saint_AndChat]Ah.
15:26:16TheSevenalso i cherrypicked that from rockbox, so they should be aware of it
15:27:29TheSevena big plus is that the unpacker is just a couple hundred bytes in size
15:28:31TheSevenit's perfect for self-extracting arm executables, where it reaches a very high compression ratio
15:28:55TheSevennoteboot is using it for instance :)
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15:31:41[Saint_AndChat]That's what made me think of it. I remembered you needing to cram decompression into a foolishly small space.
15:32:04TheSeventhe ams bootloader works in a similar fashion
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15:32:22LloreanI think we used UCL for archos flashed Rockbox images or something, way back.
15:32:36TheSevenit's used in lots of places
15:34:21amiconnTheSeven: ucl can unpack in place, provided the unpacked size is known beforehand. So no memory overhead at all
15:35:10TheSevenamiconn: that will only hold true if especially the end of the binary compresses well
15:35:11amiconnThe decompressor (for a single method and a single block) fits in <300 bytes for both arm and sh1
15:36:06amiconnIt is explicitly stated as a property of ucl that you can decompress in-place. All you have to do is to move the compressed blob upwards so that its end lines up with the end of the uncompressed one
15:36:41TheSevenif the end of the data cannot be compressed and you're using the single block, the uncompressed data would overwrite parts of the compressed data if you do that
15:36:46wodzis there standalone ucl compressor/decompressor for linux for example - the proof will be simple if ucl is suitable to compress symbols table
15:36:51TheSeventhis is probably a rather rate corner case though :)
15:37:12TheSevenwodz: I have one in the freemyipod svn
15:37:38TheSevenhttp://svn.freemyipod.org/tools/ucl/
15:37:54TheSevenucl2e10singleblk is what you want to try out
15:38:20wodzok
15:38:44*[Saint_AndChat] wonders why he didn't think to check if wodz was present or not. :)
15:39:11[Saint_AndChat]You've seen the discussion now, job done :D
15:40:00amiconnTheSeven: Weird. http://www.oberhumer.com/opensource/ucl/ clearly states in-place decompression as a feature
15:40:02wodz[Saint_AndChat]: this is mostly relevant to pamury's idea of decoding addresses into func names
15:41:55[Saint_AndChat]wodz: yeah, I was going to reply to the ml but I wasn't /certain/ it was ucl being used in the case I was thinking of.
15:42:29[Saint_AndChat]So, I checked here...the rest is very recent history :)
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15:45:27wodzTheSeven: Any special way to compile this out? I get undefined references to some ucl_* functions when issuing make ucl2e10singleblk
15:46:36TheSevenjust run make
15:46:51TheSevenor make ../ucl2e10singleblk
15:47:18TheSeventhe binaries will be created in the parent directory for historical reasons :)
15:47:19wodzok
15:48:51TheSevenamiconn: I'd assume that in-place decompression is possible for non-single-block binaries if you add a constant amount of scratch space (a couple of bytes) between the decompressed and compressed data
15:48:59wodzhttp://www.pastie.org/2622048 <- I think it is suitable :-)
15:49:27TheSevencompressing single-block means that the non-compressible parts of the binary will actually grow by 12.5%
15:50:31TheSevenwhich is a rather obvious problem for in-place decompression :)
15:51:10[Saint_AndChat]wodz: nice.
15:51:36*[Saint_AndChat] is kinda glad he thinks, occasionally ;)
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15:52:17wodzso considering what pamury says that symbol map would be ~45kB we can expect it compressed to a few kB
15:53:27wodzso with some hacking we may have backtrace with function names decoding in something like 10kB I guess
15:53:45[Saint_AndChat]Nice.
15:53:46wodzmaybe closer to 15
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15:58:43wodzdo we build for lowmem arms in thumb mode?
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16:14:46CIA-14New commit by 03bluebrother (r30625): Rockbox Utility: Convert xpm to jpg. ...
16:16:19CIA-14r30625 build result: 0 errors, 4 warnings (bluebrother committed)
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16:48:17pamaurywodz: I wrote a simple program to extract just the needed information from the map
16:49:22pamaurywodz: http://pastebin.com/n21hzPgP (quick and dirty) and with compression you can probably squeeze it to ~15Kib
16:50:07wodzpamaury: this is to process .map file right?
16:50:15pamauryyes
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16:50:40wodzok I'll do the test how it compresses with ucl
16:50:42pamauryit will only keeps lines of the form 0x<number> <symbol name>
16:52:03pamauryand writes a binary files with a list of <uint32_t, char[] >, a more complete program would sort entries by address
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16:57:42wodzhttp://www.pastie.org/2622290
16:58:28pamaurynice
16:58:35wodzso I think this is doable
16:59:38wodzpamaury: mybe you could hack something like this on top of 'my' patch? Compression and sorting may come later (but before inclusion if this happen)
17:00
17:00:55pamaurythere is only small problem: say we want to include the processed map in the binary, we need to use it before producing it :)
17:01:41wodzcan't we extend the header of binary to point to the begining of symbol table?
17:01:55wodzthis way we only need to append it at the end
17:03:01wodzhmm wait header is discarded on load
17:03:01pamaurythat could be an option, however that only works if the main executable doesn't move itself in memory and you still need to have a bound on its size for the linker
17:03:34wodzhow it is solved in other formats?
17:04:20pamauryif you have a PE or ELF format, you can add a section to it and dynamically look in the section table where it is
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17:06:17wodzinlining complicates the matter - otherwise we could simply count functions
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17:07:03pamauryI see one solution but there is one (reasonable) assumption and its more complicated: build elf file and map, process map, relink elf file by appending the file. The only difference between the first and second link would be that the second one knows the size of the map, which is needed for the link, and you hope and the linker doesn't change anything between builds
17:08:21pamauryTheSeven: any idea regarding this issue ?
17:09:04wodzcan't we fiddle somehow with the section at the end of elf?
17:10:49TheSeveni think you won't get around moving the data at runtime
17:11:24pamaurywhat do you mean ?
17:12:13TheSevenif you don't want the unwinder inclusion to move around the symbols, your only choice is to append it to the last loadable section
17:12:39TheSeventhis means that it will end up somewhere inside the audio buffer IIUC, and you'll probably have to move it e.g. to the end of it at runtime
17:15:18pamaurythe problem is the inclusion of symbols, the unwinder and ucl decompressor will be normal code, the problem is that it needs to know where to find the (compress) map and the linker probably needs to know its size; except it you put move it at runtime somewhere at the end of the audio buf and reduce its size
17:15:45pamauryAre there targets where the main binary move itself to another location (ie different from where it was loaded) ?
17:15:58 Quit kadoban (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
17:16:53TheSevenwhy would that be relevant?
17:17:06TheSevenall of our targets move code around in some way, for example IRAM
17:17:42TheSevenso i'd think it would be straigtforward to place a symbol at the end of the loadable part of the elf, and then append the unwinding data to the bin file
17:17:57TheSevenat boot you move the unwinding data to the end of the audio buffer and shrink it
17:18:33pamaurybut if it moves the code, it needs to move the symbol map and so to knows its size
17:20:13amiconnWhy does the symbol map need to be on target at all? If all you need is a backtrace, the addresses would do. You can look them up yourself
17:20:47amiconnThe .map doesn't have all the function names anyway. Everything 'static' doesn't get listed there
17:20:57pamauryamiconn: see my mail, that was just a proposal
17:21:14pamaurywe are discussing the feasability
17:21:18***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:22:08TheSevenpamaury: I still don't get why there are any interdependencies between this and moving code
17:23:25pamaurytypically code moves by writing in ctr0 using three symbols: start,end and copy. So if you happen data to the binary file, you need to change end for the copy to take it into account. Except if ctr0 becomes aware of the data you added after the end
17:23:50pamaury*append
17:24:05TheSevenyes, crt0 will probably have to handle moving the unwinder data to its final location
17:24:13amiconnWouldn't the map be just part of .rodata?
17:25:01amiconncrt0 copying stuff around wouldn't matter at all in this case.
17:25:12pamauryamiconn: we want to post-process the map produced by the linker
17:25:38pamaury(rockbox.map)
17:25:41*amiconn apparently doesn't see where the problem is
17:25:50amiconnI got that part
17:26:14pamauryyou can't put it into the .rodata because you don't have the data before producing it
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17:26:24amiconnWell, you'd have to link twice
17:26:45pamaurythat's my proposal
17:26:45TheSevenassuming that you don't get any weird size oscillations :)
17:26:45pamaurybut then some other adresses might change
17:27:08amiconnFirst time to produce the .map, second time to include it. Of course you need to do it in a way no other addresses change
17:27:19pamauryright, that's the point
17:27:35amiconnHmm, another option would be to not include the (post processed or not) map in the binary at all
17:27:48amiconnJust load it at boot if present
17:28:08TheSeventhat increases the risk of mismatches
17:28:22TheSevenpeople passing around patched rockbox.ipod files and the like :)
17:28:48amiconnNot if you include a build timestamp both as a const and a symbol
17:29:18TheSeventhat would only prevent it from exploding, but not make it actually work :)
17:29:43amiconnYeah, you need the matching map file
17:29:53*amiconn assumes this is only for debug builds anyway
17:30:21*TheSeven still wonders if a crashkernel approach might be useful
17:37:25pamaurythe crashkernel approch is still useful to debug, since you have the full image you can use gdb no ?
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17:49:24amiconnAfaiu it should be possible to have a gdb stub on all swusb targets, implementing usb-serial
17:50:12amiconnThere is a gdb stub for the old archoses (using an actual serial port) which works
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18:00
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18:05:48CIA-14New commit by 03bluebrother (r30626): Rockbox Utility: redo program icons based on the svg logo. ...
18:06:58nrgi'm having trouble
18:07:12nrgfinding the update status list for sansa fuze v2
18:07:22nrglike whats been changed in recent releases
18:07:32CIA-14r30626 build result: 0 errors, 4 warnings (bluebrother committed)
18:07:35bluebrother^update status list?
18:08:27[Saint_AndChat]We have one of those? ;)
18:09:03[Saint_AndChat]Maybe that's why you're having trouble...there's no such thing.
18:09:19[Saint_AndChat]Not target specific, at least.
18:09:29bluebrother^depending on what this thing is supposed to be :D
18:10:06[Saint_AndChat]I assume he means rather like a target specific commit log.
18:10:23bluebrother^how should a target specific commit log work at all?
18:10:45[Saint_AndChat]No idea :)
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18:11:23[Saint_AndChat]My assumption is he wants commits that only affect <target x>
18:11:47bluebrother^ok, you could check the compiled objects against the previous version and see if a commit changed and of the objects a build links.
18:12:19bluebrother^but well, I don't think it's worth the work
18:12:36[Saint_AndChat]The "major changes" is /probably/ all he wants.
18:13:50*[Saint_AndChat] can't remember where to locate those off hand but assumes its nicely linked from the main page.
18:13:52bluebrother^possibly
18:14:32bluebrother^go to rockbox.org, press Ctrl-F, type "change" and find a "change log" link. Follow. Done :)
18:15:43[Saint_AndChat]There's also the "commits since <Foo>" links too, nrg
18:16:21bluebrother^[Saint_AndChat]: but <Foo> is not a target! ;-)
18:16:53[Saint_AndChat];-)
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18:51:02pamaurywodz: I have an mp3 laying around with is rockchip and pid 0x3203, can you tell from this which chip is it or not ?
18:54:01wodzpamaury: go into info section in OF and look for SDK string
18:54:19pamauryOF section ?
18:55:24wodzfire it up and look for something like system
18:55:46wodzthere should be string describing SDK (or vendor)
18:56:15pamauryhum, funny thing: I can't boot because battery is low but apparently because of a linux quirk it doesn't charge over usb
18:57:35pamauryok, I've plugged it on a wall charger, I'll tell you when it's charged
19:00
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19:21:20***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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19:32:57pamaurywodz: I can't find anything OF related in the system menu
19:36:41wodzsorry I can't boot into OF to look how the call this
19:37:07pamaurythere is a system upgrade option in the system menu and then the device present itself as 071b:3226 (domain technology), is that normal ?
19:37:52wodzpamaury: I heard about such behaviour
19:38:54bluebrother^hmm, that TTS code in Rockbox Utility isn't easily to understand :(
19:45:09pamaurywodz: just opened it, it's rockchip rknano-B AD1M400, do you know this chip ?
19:47:55wodznop
19:48:14wodzcan you take a picture?
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19:50:31nrgohhh okay guys
19:50:37nrgthanks, "change log"
19:50:44nrgthats what i was looking for
19:53:22nrgthis really is like by far one of my favorite community projects, such a great utility and active development base
19:53:58pamaurywodz: sure, wait a minute
19:55:35 Quit fyrestorm (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
19:56:14pamaurywodz: http://perso.ens-lyon.fr/amaury.pouly/SSL22776.JPG
19:59:47wodzpamaury: according to ved=0CEoQ7gEwBTgo&prev=/search%3Fq%3Drockchip%2Brknano%26start%3D40%26hl%3Dpl%26sa%3DN%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D628%26prmd%3Dimvnsfd">http://translate.google.pl/translate?hl=pl&sl=en&u=http://wenku.baidu.com/view/c717a2b369dc5022aaea00f5.html%3Ffrom%3Drelated&ei=flSHTsTxLqmW0QXdqozWDw&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CEoQ7gEwBTgo&prev=/search%3Fq%3Drockchip%2Brknano%26start%3D40%26hl%3Dpl%26sa%3DN%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D628%26prmd%3Dimvnsfd
19:59:59wodzthis is something different than rk27xx
20:00
20:01:44[Saint_AndChat]EVERYLONGLINK
20:01:49[Saint_AndChat]:)
20:03:38pamaurywodz: did you ever contacted rockchip directly ? (can't remember)
20:03:52wodzpamaury: yes - they never responded
20:05:24wodzjudging from the linked flash compatibility document this may be rk261x chip - there are pretty no data about this
20:07:57 Quit thomasjfox (Remote host closed the connection)
20:08:09pamauryhow did you obtain the rk27xx sdk ?
20:08:11bluebrother^hmm, rockbox.org down this time?
20:09:55nrghmm...
20:10:03nrgits lagging out for me too
20:10:15nrgit was up a moment ago
20:10:38[Saint_AndChat]I haven't reached it all day.
20:10:44wodzpamaury: internet :-)
20:11:00[Saint_AndChat]Though I did get a ping back some hours ago.
20:16:39pamauryindeed it's hard to find any info about rknano
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20:48:59wodzis there a reason we build core with -O instead of -Os on arm?
20:50:24ShrokerDoes anyone else here experience problems with the Rockbox website?. It at times seems like it just stalls and won't load any of the pages.
20:52:53 Quit TheSeven (Remote host closed the connection)
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20:56:59pamauryShroker: me too
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20:57:45[Saint_AndChat]Maybe put a note in the topic?
20:57:56[Saint_AndChat]Hint: ops :)
20:58:45Shroker=D
20:58:46wodzweb loads for me
20:58:52ShrokerIt loads but at times it'l just stall.
20:59:17ShrokerLike you could be viewing something, hit an ew link and it'l just not return anything.
21:00
21:00:20Shroker(Dropbox will have the same issue too as it cannot retrive info/data from the servers).
21:00:45Shroker@Saint_AndChat yeah. Probably should. I am sure one of the ops will see. haha.
21:03:20wodzit works perfectly ok for me
21:03:33ShrokerHmm. Odd. haha
21:03:48ShrokerSeems to be okay right now haha. Oh well.
21:05:32nrg_maybe it was a weird dns reroute for a moment
21:05:51ShrokerYeah. Could be conflicts for some and it just goes wonky.
21:06:04nrg_its back for me now too
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21:06:39nrg_this just made the think
21:06:46ShrokerOf?
21:06:50nrg_the main site could use a fresh now look
21:06:57ShrokerHmmm.
21:06:59nrg_its very like 1997 looking
21:07:12[Saint_AndChat]Been there, tried that.
21:07:12ShrokerHahaha. It has been the same since its inception haha.
21:07:20nrg_screen sizes are so big now
21:07:33nrg_that most people are going with a center weighted whiter looking design
21:07:38[Saint_AndChat]Rockbox.org.new /may/ still be up.
21:07:47[Saint_AndChat]But, out of date.
21:07:51nrg_lolll
21:07:55nrg_let me check
21:08:28nrg_don't get me wrong, the site is functionally perfect and i love how it looks
21:08:41nrg_but it might help bring in a new userbase if it just looked fresher
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21:09:05*bluebrother^ has TTS string corrections in Rockbox Utility working :)
21:09:32bluebrother^shall I get some fresh breeze spray and apply it to the website?
21:09:48[Saint_AndChat]nrg_: how would that work?
21:10:07[Saint_AndChat]New users wont discover it because it looks good ;)
21:10:20bluebrother^nrg_: screen sizes being big doesn't mean you need to make your browser that big
21:10:21[Saint_AndChat]It works, that's all we need.
21:10:24nrg_but it might help them stick around
21:10:38ShrokerI think new users that find Rockbox are already n the process of changing whatever default firmware as it is.
21:10:48[Saint_AndChat]If that's all they care about, we don't want them :)
21:10:59 Quit ChickeNES (Client Quit)
21:11:06nrg_hahah, well thats a good stance too, at least its been thought about
21:11:21bluebrother^I *really* can't stand this stupid argument "because of wide screens we need to limit our page to <x>px width". If you don't want the page to be displayed with 1920px width then make your stupid browser window smaller!
21:11:51*[Saint_AndChat] nods.
21:11:55ShrokerHahaha. Its funny cause unless the font changes. How big thr browser is, doens't really matter.
21:11:56nrg_i mean like relative sizing
21:12:19Shroker@nrg_ sometimes causes slower loading though.
21:12:24[Saint_AndChat]Its all relative, baby. :)
21:12:29Shroker: )
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21:15:09ShrokerAlright. Time to boot up rockbox on my ipod
21:16:21nrg_=]
21:16:33CIA-14New commit by 03bluebrother (r30627): Update ui files to use converted bitmap.
21:17:02Shrokeryay!
21:17:03Shrokeromg..
21:17:05Shrokersweeett..
21:18:16CIA-14r30627 build result: 0 errors, 4 warnings (bluebrother committed)
21:18:29ShrokerAnyone here usnig rockbox with ipod / ipod video?
21:18:54nrg_i have an ipod photo that runs rockbox
21:18:57nrg_but i never use it
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21:19:02nrg_the hardrive has basically given out
21:19:06ShrokerOuch. haha.
21:19:19nrg_i keep thinking about replacing it, but don't really have a need
21:19:22ShrokerWell, what I was wondering is, how do I manage music on it (cause I stopped using itunes for it a while ago)
21:19:27nrg_i just use my fuze instead
21:19:42BuschelI am using a nano2g and a 5G (Video)
21:19:45ShrokerAs I want to play Flac files now on it intsead of it needing to be convertered.
21:19:49nrg_well you have rockbox on it?
21:19:52ShrokerYup.
21:19:57Shroker@Buschel: I'm using 5G video too.
21:20:02nrg_just drag and drop the files
21:20:05nrg_onto the device
21:20:09nrg_where you want them :D
21:20:09Shrokerahh okay
21:20:15Shrokerso i can just ditch the whole
21:20:17nrg_thats one of the best parts imo
21:20:19nrg_yea
21:20:23ShrokeriPod file systme
21:20:25ShrokerNice...
21:20:31nrg_no need to like even mess with that
21:20:51ShrokerLol. great I need to reorganize everything but least I can do flac on it now..
21:20:52Shroker:D
21:21:22nrg_=]]
21:21:23***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:21:43nrg_it can also do some database indexing for a library on the device itself
21:21:52nrg_once you drag the music there it can go through and scan everything
21:22:00Shrokeryup.
21:22:02nrg_but i usually prefer just to use the file selector
21:22:05Shroker=D
21:22:24ShrokerI was just wondering how Winamp was going to interact with it haha but i think it'll just treat it as a giant flahs drive now
21:22:33nrg_^___^
21:22:52ShrokerWill find out soon once i move everything out.
21:23:35[Saint_AndChat]Its a giant USB disk now, yes.
21:23:39ShrokerSo do I have to leave the origonal ipod_control folderi n there?. or just have to clear out the music folder and I'l be good to go? ( want to do a fresh batch of files).
21:23:52[Saint_AndChat]You can remove it.
21:24:11ShrokerAwesome.
21:24:16[Saint_AndChat]It'll be recreated if you boot the apple firmware, though.
21:24:41nrg_how annoying
21:24:46ShrokerAh, thats fine. I just wanted to clear things out so I can see how winamp will interact with it if it can't find that folder. : )
21:25:11nrg_mann, winamp brings me back
21:25:14[Saint_AndChat]Not really...you can remove the apple firmware too, if you want :)
21:25:35Shroker:P. Well, will keep that in there for the time being. =D
21:26:13[Saint_AndChat]No real need to, I only do it as I hate the apple firmware with a passion.
21:26:23ShrokerI concur.
21:28:43Shrokerokay. im too lazy to wait for the folder to copy *hits delete* lol. I can always recopy the stuff lol.
21:30:30ShrokerSo whats everyone up to?
21:32:11*bertrik_train does maintenance for AMSv2 based players mostly and hopes to get rockbox ported on the sansa clip zip soonish
21:33:22[Saint_AndChat]Shroker: go to #rockbox-community for that kind of chatter.
21:33:32ShrokerAh!. Cool. :D
21:33:38ShrokerThank you. :)
21:33:48bertrik_trainI'm also interested in AMSv1 players like the sansa clip and I like to improve support for ipod accessory protocol
21:34:29nrg_doesn't the fuze series run ARM ?
21:34:49nrg_or am i like totally off
21:35:05bertrik_trainyes
21:35:20nrg_it looks like such a nice ISA
21:35:35ShrokerThanks for your help all. :)
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21:40:24nrg_:D anytime
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21:49:00CIA-14New commit by 03bluebrother (r30628): Voicefile generation: implement string corrections. ...
21:50:39CIA-14r30628 build result: 0 errors, 4 warnings (bluebrother committed)
21:53:43bluebrother^finally finished this feature.
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21:57:57BuscheljhMikeS: you there?
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22:07:59CIA-14New commit by 03bluebrother (r30629): Android: show Album Art in notification area. ...
22:08:10 Quit robin0800 (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
22:09:49CIA-14r30629 build result: 0 errors, 4 warnings (bluebrother committed)
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22:19:05webguest91What's good?
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22:19:42[Saint_AndChat]...leaving?
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22:28:40bluebrother^hmm. Does anyone have an idea what to do to make Rockbox Utility on W7 not have a too small upscaled icon in the task bar?
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22:44:39ShrokerIs there a quick way to wipe the database in the Rockbox for ipod? Can't seem to find said function if there is one.
22:44:53 Quit matze` (Remote host closed the connection)
22:47:41[Saint_AndChat]Shroker: delete all the. idx files from /rockbox
22:48:06Buschel[Saint_AndChat] was faster ;)
22:48:51[Saint_AndChat]Whoops...is it .idx or .tcd?
22:49:06Buscheltcd
22:49:40Buschelbut I think it is obvious if you see the file list in .rockbox
22:49:59[Saint_AndChat]Ah, right. .idx is the playlist control file iirc.
22:50:53[Saint_AndChat]I don't have the db init'd on my phone.
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22:55:05Shrokerahh.
22:55:13Shrokerhaha. : ). Okay. Thats what I figured it was.
22:55:15ShrokerBut wanted to make sure.
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23:00
23:00:12CIA-14New commit by 03bluebrother (r30630): Rockbox Utility: make the window icon also include a larger one. ...
23:01:58CIA-14r30630 build result: All green
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