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#rockbox log for 2012-01-11

00:00:33 Part Zagor
00:03:54 Quit T44 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
00:04:23 Quit TBCOOL (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
00:06:39 Join anewuser [0] (~anewuser@186.93.165.98)
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00:18:46 Join Keripo [0] (~Keripo@eng304.wireless-resnet.upenn.edu)
00:25:54pamaurythat's strange, I can't make lcd_blit_yuv work on the fuze+ in a debug screen, it doesn't blit anything
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01:00
01:01:33***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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01:37:10funmanTorne: i agree with saratoga, something weird is going on with clipv2
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02:01:28 Join saratoga [0] (980329da@gateway/web/freenode/ip.152.3.41.218)
02:02:45saratogaTorne: some small proportion of clipv2 players brick if flashed due to some kind of hardware difference
02:02:59saratogaif you unbrick one and then try to flash it again it will always brick again
02:06:36saratogasomeone dumped the flashed firmware off of one of these clips and it looked correct, so I assume they have some hardware difference
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02:07:00 Quit martii (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
02:07:49funmani asked for someone to send me one on the forum but i think no one replied
02:08:07 Join Prodicus [0] (~chatzilla@69.169.144.239.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net)
02:09:57Prodicussaratoga, funman: I'd be willing to ship my bricked Clip V2 if it'd be helpful
02:11:41[Saint]Is it known that its one of these "bricks every time its flashed" players?
02:12:11[Saint]Or has it only bricked once, and never been recovered since?
02:20:25JdGordonsounds like its worth the effort of sending it even if it isnt guarenteed
02:21:02 Quit [Saint_] (Quit: Quit)
02:21:06[Saint]Yeah, good point.
02:22:34ProdicusI've not opened it up to try my hand at soldering, but it kinda sounds like most of the ones that brick under normal operation have the problem consistently
02:24:00ProdicusI described this earlier today (10th), in case reading any of what I said from the irc logs might be helpful
02:24:57saratogaseems unlikely theres more then 1 problem with the clipv2 players bricking, so long as no other player has any problems
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02:30:37funmanProdicus: if your player is bricked yes it'd be helpful if you send it to me
02:30:48funmani can send ity back if/when i fix the problem
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02:57:19funmanProdicus: feel free to talk to me in private or at funman@videolan.org
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02:59:19funmanProdicus: in the meantime updating the wiki to warn about Clipv2 is a good idea IMO
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03:00
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03:01:34***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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03:33:32JdGordon[Saint]: soooooooo......... 1024*768 cabbie? :)
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03:41:58funmani gave prodicus my adress in PM
03:42:33[Saint]JdGordon: I need to do a serious push, very soon, to get whats there into svn.
03:42:36[Saint]errr....git.
03:43:59[Saint]I need to get it to a point where it can be put in, and provide the lang string patch(es?), then say "this is what needs to happen to get it done...balls in X's court" kinda thing.
03:44:33[Saint]I'm not too happy about requiring lang string(s), but cabbie does already...
03:45:34JdGordonwhich brings us back to skin translation support
03:45:49[Saint]it always does... :)
03:45:50JdGordonbut im talking 1024*768 :) not 480*800
03:47:18[Saint]Well...if I work on it, I'd like to get it in sources eventually. Seems no reason not to.
03:48:22[Saint]There's just some changes that I think would be useful to do to the way themes are packaged at build time that are above my head. there's two ways to fix the font issue, both I'm unsure of.
03:48:31JdGordonactually, we should talk to Torne about splitting the cabbie code out to a new git project
03:48:31[Saint]1 - fix convttf
03:48:44JdGordonif that makes things easier
03:48:47[Saint]2- get pre-converted fonts from a central location
03:49:14 Quit robin0800 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
03:49:24[Saint]I would vote for both 1 *and* 2, though.
03:49:33funmannot sure moving things out of the main repo make things easier
03:50:12JdGordon[Saint]: 2) means downloading from a central server?
03:50:22JdGordonor converting and storing once per source checkout?
03:50:32[Saint]the latter.
03:50:52[Saint]versioning them so they're only converted to .fnt when they change.
03:51:00[Saint]not chucked out every build.
03:51:11JdGordonmake shuold be able to handle that
03:51:27JdGordonor oyu actually want to checkin the .fnt to git?
03:51:59[Saint]with the case of AA fonts, building every time is an asshole...as to get consistent output each and every font needed a manually tweeked command to convttf.
03:52:24[Saint]So I thought it'd be a lot easier to do "fonts are preconverted, they're inhere" kinda thing.
03:52:33JdGordonis there a bug which exactly specifies the convttf bugs?
03:52:59[Saint]Not if the task was clkosed when it was committed.
03:53:10 Quit MethoS- (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
03:53:11JdGordonso open one :)
03:53:22[Saint]as far as I was aware it was a known issue, even when it was committed.
03:53:25JdGordonbrb
03:55:02[Saint]But I'm kinda thinking, even if convttf can give a nice and consistent output...its wasteful to generate .fnt for each build. even if its 1 second per build round, it adds up.
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03:56:04[Saint]they change so infrequently that they wouldn't even need to be versioned really, just someone manaully generates an .fnt of the font if its sources change, which will be easy to remember if you're the one changing font sources.
03:57:03[Saint]Just have a dir in the source tree with pre-converted fonts and say "hey, whatever_packages_themes, fonts are in here...don't build them needlessly"
03:57:48[Saint]</2 cents>
04:00
04:00:15JdGordoneasy.... fix convttf to generate the fonts correctly, then use make to build the .fnt into a shared dir, and then commit the generated files (probably wasteful) so they are automatically built when the .bdf is touched anyway
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04:03:31[Saint]And we'd to store the .ttf originals too I suppose. Forgot about that.
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04:04:52[Saint]I'm totally not against fixing convttf, that's agiven...but I've thought about the sillyness/wastefulness of building fonts each round for years now.
04:05:20[Saint]*a given
04:05:50JdGordonfixing convttf is far more important i tinhk
04:06:13[Saint]The last time I brought it up I got the impression that "a few seconds each round doesn't hurt"...but I toally disagree.
04:06:43JdGordonyou're wrong :)
04:06:59[Saint]the font sources change *so* infrequently...it adds up.
04:07:37[Saint]the sheer amount of needlessly generated/transferred fonts...it wouldn't be an insignificant amount.
04:07:39JdGordonhe same can be said for probably 80% of the code
04:07:47JdGordonand langs
04:08:17[Saint]they should be looked at too...anything that isn't versioned, but could be, would help.
04:08:32funmannot sure what you're trying to do
04:08:33JdGordonfor the sake of a second or two it makes no difference
04:08:42[Saint]Do we not want faster builds and less total traffic?
04:08:52[Saint]I thought they were good things...
04:09:32funmanno I want simplicity
04:09:47JdGordon[Saint]: only 1 or 2 fonts are shipped in the normal zip anyway
04:09:55JdGordonthe fonts are shipped seperatly
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04:10:38[Saint]but the font pack is still built each round, no?
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04:12:04JdGordonrasher: your buildround debug page is broken
04:12:38[Saint]Oh...actually. I seem to remember an issue where the fontpack wasn't getting updated, for a long time...I wonder if that's fixed.
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04:12:56JdGordoni see nothing suggesting fonts are built often
04:13:25JdGordonhttp://download.rockbox.org/daily/fonts/rockbox-fonts.zip24-Sep-2009 01:523.2M
04:13:32[Saint]I recall a reference to "daily built fontpacks" somewhere.
04:13:36JdGordonnot updated in 2 years!!!
04:13:44[Saint]yeah.
04:14:14JdGordonthat answers that question then
04:14:16[Saint]I do remember bringing this up once upon a time :)
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04:15:47[Saint]the webpage claims they'reupdated with each release.
04:16:25JdGordonok
04:16:35JdGordonso once every 3 months is not worth fixing
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09:01:42***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
09:02:35JdGordonZagor: hey, whats the story with your lcd branch? its on in git yet?
09:03:05Zagorno it's not
09:03:20ZagorTorne offfered to put it there for me. I guess that'd be nice.
09:03:42ZagorI've been a bit distracted from it over the holidays
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09:05:24JdGordonok
09:06:42Zagormy holiday project is now ready, and hopefull soon git too. I'll get back to the lcd refactoring then.
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09:38:21ukleineka friend has a sansa e280 up to now only with OF. He can put something on it via USB, but after disconnection and media lib update the file system is unchanged. Same for (OF) firmware upgrades. Does anybody has an idea what might be the problem and how it can be fixed?
10:00
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10:21:48gevaertsukleinek: hard to say. Filesystem corruption seems possible, maybe a flaky flash chip connection? (unlikely., that tends to just blue-ring the thing until it's pushed back in place properly), or possibly other non-filesystem (i.e. mbr or elsewhere) corruption
10:23:09ukleinekgevaerts: do you have an idea how to debug that?
10:23:27ukleinekin February I might get my hands on the DAP
10:24:06[Saint]fsck.vfat would be a good start
10:25:06gevaertsukleinek: for the first, some sort of fsck or chkdsk, for the second, search the forums (you basically unscrew the back and push), for the third, remind me to update the e200 unbrick wiki page :)
10:25:52gevaertsYou'd basically need to follow http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SansaC200Erase, except the right binary isn't there yet (but you could build it from source)
10:27:33gevaertshm, apparently you still need to change the makefile a bit for that. I should fix that...
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10:32:15ukleinekgevaerts: I already pointed $friend to http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SansaE200Unbrick
10:32:58gevaertsukleinek: I hope you mentioned things like being careful and asking for help if things are even a tiny bit unclear?
10:33:25ukleinekgevaerts: no, it's all on the wiki page, isn't it? :-)
10:34:20gevaertsWell yes, but...
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13:02:55Zagorgit homepage is live
13:03:25TorneZagor: yay
13:03:28Tornelooks good
13:03:39gevaertsyay!
13:03:47TorneWhat's since-release based off now?
13:03:54TorneYou can, if you are sufficiently crazy, do that automatically in git ;)
13:04:13Torneby having it do a set difference on a pattern that expands to all the branch heads
13:04:28Zagorwe don't have a proper tag for the branch, so it's hard coded to the branching commit
13:04:35TorneAh
13:04:44TorneWhat you want is v3.10..master
13:04:46Torneer
13:04:49Tornev3.1..master
13:04:52Torneyou don't need a tag
13:04:59Tornea set subtraction works
13:05:01Zagorwe only tag the branch release, not the branching
13:05:04TorneYes
13:05:07TorneThat doesn't matter
13:05:10Torne.. does not do what you think it does
13:05:22Torne.. means "subtract the set of commits in the right hand thing from the set of commits int he left hand thing"
13:05:25Torneso it will Just Work
13:05:34Torneit's not a range, it's a set operation
13:06:35ZagorI still don't see how it can work without a tag or other reference to when we branched
13:06:51Torneit will subtract all commits reachable from the *head* of the branch
13:07:03Tornethis includes all the commits on the branch but also all the commits on master from before the branch point
13:07:24Torneyouc an just try it, it prints the right thing :)
13:07:30Zagoraha
13:08:00Zagorlovely syntax with .. and ... meaning completely different things...
13:08:30TorneYes
13:08:39Torne... is a symmetric difference, which is rarely (but occasionally) useful
13:08:50Torne.. is a set subtraction, which in most cases behaves like a range :)
13:09:48Tornethere's magic you can do with patterns that rev-list accepts to get it to subtract, say, v3.* from teh list, also
13:09:55Tornewhich owuld mean when we make a new release branch it updates automatically
13:09:59Tornebut that may be a bit much ;p
13:10:13gevaertsI'm not sure we even want that
13:10:28Tornegevaerts: possibly not
13:10:37Torneanyway, hardcode v3.10 instead of the SHA, is nicer
13:10:38gevaertsI'd expect people to understand it as "since the last release", which isn't the same thing as "since the last release branch was branched"
13:10:43TorneYeah
13:11:05gevaertsYou could presumably work with release tags though
13:11:19TorneYou could use the release tags in exactly the same way, yes
13:11:26Tornebut using the release branch head is less work
13:11:30gevaertsAlthough then you need to be careful with point releases
13:11:33Tornesince if you do a x.y.z release you don't need to move it
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13:45:32JdGordongit sha's are really not very nice to look at p
13:45:35JdGordon:p
13:46:18JdGordonwasnt there talk of useing tag+<commit count> or am i completly imagining things?
13:46:43TorneJdGordon: i experiemnted with that a whole lot and was not satisfied with the way it works in general
13:46:48JdGordonZagor: http://www.rockbox.org/recent.shtml#svn still says subversion :)
13:46:53Tornewe've not given up on the idea
13:46:56Tornei'll look into it more
13:46:58ZagorJdGordon: oops
13:46:59JdGordonok cool
13:47:12Torneso for now it's the SHA
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13:47:30JdGordonI don't suppose there is any magic to make r<svn id> link to the right git commit?
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13:47:37Tornenot easily, no
13:47:59Torneyou can *find* the right git commit with something like git log −−grep='git-svn-id.*@12345'
13:48:20Torneit's even reasonably fast :p
13:48:31Tornebut doing that for everything is going to be a bit sucky
13:48:36Tornewe could build an index or something, i dunno
13:49:10JdGordonZagor: 30c4efc in http://www.rockbox.org/since-4weeks.html is a good example... the magic to point to a rev is still pointing to svn.rockbox.org
13:49:51Zagorah, the rev-in-comment fix
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15:01:25funmanZagor: videolan guys tell me rockbox mirror is taking a bit of disk space
15:01:33funmanis the videolan mirror used at all?
15:01:38Zagorno, they can delete it
15:01:47***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:01:56funmanwell is it needed at all?
15:01:58Zagorand say thanks!
15:02:10Zagorno, we serve everything from the main server
15:02:33funmanno last thought about it?
15:03:20Zagor:-) thanks, but we're fine
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16:10:19kugelZagor: easy fix eh? :)
16:17:36GodEater_did we stop using all our mirrors then?
16:19:08funmani thought there was only videolan
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16:22:30GodEater_we still have one from positive-internet I thought - at least - they never told me they'd canned it
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16:23:55GodEater_their logo is gone though it seems!
16:25:30Zagorwe stopped using the mirrors to get usable download statistics
16:25:52Zagorand we decided a few extra bucks for bandwidth was well worth it
16:26:08GodEater_did anyone tell the mirror providers? :)
16:26:18Zagorumm, no :-)
16:26:30GodEater_I'll write to positive then and thank them ;)
16:26:32ZagorI removed the logos today during the to-git transition
16:26:46Zagorand that reminded me we should tell them (and thank them)
16:26:55ZagorGodEater_: excellent
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16:35:06GodEater_email sent
16:35:41funmanBtw VideoLAN thanks you/us too
16:42:33Zagorkugel: easy fix?
16:43:12kugelyou removed the rNNNN to hyperlink magic, didnt you?
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16:44:33Zagorah, right
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16:54:32GodEater_Zagor: you and Bagder should have received Positive's response ;)
16:58:47Zagorwe did. thanks.
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20:00
20:02:12biopytehi. two simple question: 1. yesterday i accidentally deleted most of my music files, but i dont know how. what button did i likely press? 2. where can i find the info about my music files like format, bit rate etc...?
20:04:39[Saint]did you run disktidy.rock perhaps?
20:04:56gevaertswhich rockbox revision is this?
20:05:46n1sbiopyte: in the "onplay" menu there should be a metadata viewer entry
20:06:05n1sthe menu is opened by a long press on select while in the wps on most players
20:06:48biopytegot it , thx
20:07:30biopytesaint, i'm not sure
20:08:33biopytei remember (not exactly) having been in the settings menu and then somehow the files were deleted one after the other
20:08:42[Saint]well...that's the only thing I can think of that doesn't require a deliberate effort to delete user content (well, it still does...but it may be non-obvious what you're doing)
20:08:47biopytei stopped the process by shutdown
20:09:04*gevaerts repeats his question
20:09:09gevaertsWhich rockbox revision is this?
20:09:21biopyteone moment
20:09:52biopyter31330-111216
20:10:05gevaertsok, that could be disktidy then
20:10:13biopyteon sansa clip +
20:10:17biopyteok
20:10:48biopytethanks, guys
20:10:53gevaertsDisktidy was overly aggressive on the "all" setting between r31239 and r31434
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20:11:24biopytein what menu is disktidy?
20:11:37gevaertsSo either use a new current build or the last stable release (3.10) and that won't happen again (unless of course it was something else, but that doesn't sound too likely)
20:11:41gevaertsplugins/apps/
20:11:49biopyteright
20:12:08biopytemakes sense
20:12:20gevaertsWell, the other possibility is that you chose "delete" from the context menu and then said you were sure, but that doesn't sound like something you wouldn't remember
20:13:06biopyteno i remember playing around with settings and plugins just to explore the system
20:13:36biopytei didnt know theres a delete function ... must be
20:14:11biopytewhat menu is it ... deleting single files?
20:14:27gevaertsthe context menu in the file browser
20:14:29biopytesince i'm here anyway ;-)
20:15:27biopyteok, again holding the select button ... i have to explore this holding further ...
20:15:39biopyteok, perfect ... that was it
20:15:44n1syou might also want to explore the manual
20:16:16biopyteis there a manual?
20:16:24biopyte;-) ....
20:17:48biopytei saw theres a new sansa clip ... zip they call it, i think .... is this one already supported?
20:18:03bluebrother^fs-bluebot: .explain manual to biopyte
20:18:03fs-bluebotbiopyte: 3manual: The Rockbox manual is available in PDF and HTML format at http://www.rockbox.org/manual.shtml
20:18:20biopyteok
20:19:07biopytei guess zip is pretty much like clip
20:19:39bertrikbiopyte, it's currently in unstable
20:19:47biopyteok
20:20:14biopytejust for curiosity ... im perfectly happy with the clip +
20:20:25bluebrother^hmm, making the bot retrieve the state for a given target might be a useful feature
20:20:50bertrikthe clip zip works fine, the thing keeping it in unstable is basically a missing/incomplete user manual
20:21:07biopytei see
20:21:40biopyteanyone already tried the zip ?
20:22:02biopytecolor display ... dont need
20:23:06biopyteright now i'm listening to a ape file ... very uncommon format ... cool that it is supported by rb anyway
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20:23:59biopyteold stuff i copied somewhere many years ago
20:25:10biopytealso have some musepack files ... dont know if these run on rb ....
20:25:25biopytethe manual will tell ... i guess
20:25:30biopyte;-)
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21:01:48bluebrother^nice. Checking the output file after speaking it fails on the second string. But the file appears (presumably a bit later)
21:01:55***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:03:02*bluebrother^ would really like to replace that vbs with some c code, but MinGW doesn't support the Speech SDK :(
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21:24:03bluebrother^looks like SAPI is working reliably now :)
21:25:15bluebrother^hmm, otoh that could be related to the disabled cleanup
21:25:48*bluebrother^ changes
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21:30:32bluebrother^hmm, disabled my changes and the problem doesn't appear anymore. wtf ...
21:33:08bluebrother^:'(
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22:11:06jlbiasinibluebrother^: there is still something weird with the fuze+ in Rockbox utility
22:11:48jlbiasinieven after having tools/builds.pm patched, I still cannot get it recognised as unstable
22:12:24gevaertsThat's server-side
22:12:32jlbiasinisee: FS #12526
22:12:32fs-bluebothttp://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12526 3put Fuze+ in unstable (patches, unconfirmed)
22:13:08jlbiasiniyou mean it get checked on the server?
22:13:23gevaertsyes
22:13:58jlbiasiniso if someone commit the patch it would work or is there other thig to changed?
22:14:24gevaertsfor rbutil that should be it
22:15:19jlbiasinibluebrother: could you confirm the name in my patch are correct?
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22:40:27bluebrother^jlbiasini: there is nothing weird.
22:40:57bluebrother^Rockbox Utility gets those information from the build server. Unless it's updated on the build server Rockbox Utility does not know about the fuze+ being unstable or whatever
22:41:31jlbiasiniok;, what should I do to so that we have everything to update it?
22:42:00jlbiasiniis the builds.pm file enough or are there other thing to prepare?
22:42:07bluebrother^see the class Serverinfo
22:42:34bluebrother^not completely sure how exactly the state file on the server is generated
22:42:54bluebrother^either way, it's just used for displaying, so it doesn't have _any_ effect on functionality
22:43:15jlbiasiniok I'll we'll have a look to this class
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22:43:45bluebrother^but that's really of no concern right now.
22:43:54jlbiasiniI also corrected the patch for the manual I don't know if you saw it?
22:43:59bluebrother^people usually only use Rockbox Utility release binaries.
22:44:10jlbiasiniah ok
22:44:13bluebrother^and right now there is a major problem with the TTS on Windows
22:44:37bluebrother^that problem is long standing, but it seems to be way more problematic since the change to use libmp3lame
22:44:41jlbiasiniso new release is still not for naw
22:44:54bluebrother^and unless I've fixed (or at least worked around it) I'm not willing to do a new release of Rockbox Utility
22:45:03jlbiasiniok
22:45:15bluebrother^people who eagerly want to use Rockbox Utility for installing can use an svn / git build.
22:45:25jlbiasiniso no need to hurry on this for the moment I get it
22:45:39bluebrother^I'm providing those every now and then. Though I have to fix my build scripts first, since they don't work with git (yet)
22:45:40jlbiasiniright
22:46:09bluebrother^which means I don't see any reason for rushing a new release.
22:46:48jlbiasiniI had the bootloader uploaded to the server so now rockbox utility should works directly
22:47:26jlbiasiniok
22:48:13bluebrother^hmm, we could support providing the firmware file as downloaded zip without too much problems
22:48:20bluebrother^s/problems/work/
22:48:42bluebrother^but why on earth is the TTS issue not showing up anymore right now? I reverted all my changes!
22:49:27jlbiasiniwhat do you mean by firmware file? the patched one?
22:49:38bluebrother^no
22:49:44bluebrother^the file you download from sandisk
22:49:54bluebrother^fuzeplus02.38.06.zip
22:49:57*gevaerts thinks that pamaury should commit the builds.pm change
22:50:36jlbiasiniI thought we couldn't do that for legal reason????
22:51:16jlbiasinibluebrother
22:51:25jlbiasiniok I get what you said
22:51:41jlbiasininot having to unzip it
22:52:48jlbiasiniright that would be a plus I will have a look on how to do that
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22:54:42jlbiasiniregarding the manual it would be nice to commiit the parts I already made because it was such a pain to do that i woould prefer not to edit my patch again i some update make it unapplyable
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22:56:08jlbiasinithis is actually why the first patch you reviewed was so bad: I finished it on my knee at 5 am ;)
22:58:58*bluebrother^ suggests not patching things on ones knees in the middle of the night :)
23:00
23:01:16*jlbiasini thinks it mostly depends on whose knees those are...
23:01:25bluebrother^it needs a bit of thinking though. Extracting is easy, but it needs to work in some intelligent way −− we at least need to inform the user about it
23:01:38bluebrother^you're working on someone elses knees? :o
23:01:52jlbiasini;)
23:01:59***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:02:38jlbiasiniyes and not trying to extract if the file already was
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23:08:51bluebrother^it's a bit more tricky. Other OF zip file contain multiple files, and we need to pick the correct one
23:08:58bluebrother^plus we need user feedback
23:10:06jlbiasiniok! I thought you wanted that only for the imx method! You are talking about a general class that could be used by every bootinstallX!
23:11:46bluebrother^we have the same situation for the ams installation. Why should I want to have such a functionality only for imx?
23:12:01jlbiasinithe name of the file to pick should be in rbutil.ini
23:12:12bluebrother^well, yes.
23:12:34bluebrother^we still need to handle the case that the zip file could contain more than one file. And we should only extract the one needed.
23:13:08jlbiasiniright
23:14:35bluebrother^wtf? When building with VS the thing crashes in the patching thread without the debugger catching it?
23:15:50bluebrother^well, not too important right now. Possibly related to that dll stuff :(
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