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#rockbox log for 2012-03-15

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00:56:30JdGordon[Saint_]: what do you think about using decimal numbers for viewport percentage sizing?
00:57:09JdGordonso %V(0,0,.5,.75) would give a viewport at (0,0) which is half the width and 3/4 the highet of the display
00:57:44JdGordonI'm not sure it would be easy to allow %V(0,0,50%,75%) unfortunately
00:57:48JdGordonthjough it would be much better
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01:22:07JdGordonactually, no checking for 50% is doable
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01:31:56CIA-44Commit f31e7a1 in rockbox by 03Jonathan Gordon: Revert "Fix FS #12606 - next track can cause the screen to be cleared"
01:34:42CIA-44f31e7a1 build result: All green
01:35:12JdGordonif anyone comes in asking why the file browser is crashing get them to try the current build... apparently that fix wasnt great
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02:00:53JdGordon[Saint_]: kugel: g#184
02:00:55fs-bluebot3Gerrit review #184 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/#change,184 : skin_engine: Support percentages for viewport positioning by Jonathan Gordon (changes/84/184/1)
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04:07:01JdGordonOzzieJacks: ah nice timing
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05:46:03[Saint_]JdGordon: I've really not got a lot of opinion here...until its actually decided what direction we difinitely want to head in for multi-res/rotaion-aware-resizable/etc. skins I'd be hesitant to support work in any direction.
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05:51:37JdGordon:(
05:52:52[Saint_]I just don't want you to waste your time man, that's all.
05:53:44[Saint_]I don't like the idea of you working on <foo>, and then someone else deciding the direction is totally wrong and making the work totally irrelevant.
05:54:26JdGordonmeh, thats not an issue, I just want to get something started
05:54:40[Saint_]And as yet, no one seems to have a clear idea what direction to head in to support multi-res/rotation-aware-resizable skins.
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05:55:10[Saint_]Until there is one, I'm just hesitant about encouraging any one particular approach.
05:55:11JdGordonI'm pretty sure this is going to end up being one of those "bits of everyones ideas" things
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09:18:12JdGordon[Saint_]: have you got a drawing or something of where your cabbie viewports are supposed to be on the various targets?
09:19:00[Saint_]I do, yeah. One second.
09:19:07[Saint_]Howcome, btw?
09:19:08JdGordonignoring images I wonder if we can knock it down to one .wps that can scale the viewports correctly with percentag placement
09:19:25[Saint_]I sincerely doubt that.
09:19:33[Saint_]Its not linear.
09:20:10JdGordonsure it is
09:20:11[Saint_]The viewports are /approximately/ the same on each port...but, far from being scales of each other.
09:20:17[Saint_]very much so in fact.
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09:21:58JdGordonyou've got the top part (which is just the banner image), then the AA+info or info viewports which should cover some percentage of the screen (though maybe using negative values is good enough there?)
09:22:08JdGordonand the bottom which is pretty static
09:23:23[Saint_]You would also need to scale the images as well.
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09:23:55JdGordonright, ignoring the images
09:24:26[Saint_]You'll see...for each port to work well, they needed quite a bit of manual tweaking. They're not just enlarged versions of each other (though they're reasonably close).
09:24:56[Saint_]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/30204410/viewport%20mockups.zip
09:25:01JdGordonthe skins have two problems, viewport placement/sizing and images... we could easily add some tag which ays "for this range of screen sizes append X to all image filename)
09:25:45JdGordonI assume red is touch ares, purpole is images?
09:26:02JdGordonpurple*
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09:26:27[Saint_]Nup :)
09:27:01[Saint_]Well, in some cases, yeah, but its not a strict rule.
09:27:06lebellium_gs2JdGordon :( the previous build works fine for me and the file browser doesn't seem to crash hum
09:27:26JdGordonlebellium_gs2: it crashes on cabbie
09:28:11lebellium_gs2Ah... Ok so I can still use the build hehe
09:29:20[Saint_]yellow is the textual viewports for the no aa case, magenta (where epresent) is touch areas (but some red areas are both viewports and touch areas of the same exact size also), and the rest are basically only coloured to offer a visual distinction but if you're aware of the port and how the theme looks you can work it out.
09:30:00JdGordonright
09:30:06[Saint_]Keep in mind, I made these for myself, and I'm colour blind. It wasn't eveer supposed to be a key for anyone else to use.
09:30:36[Saint_]I should be able to make that so, though, with rather minimal effort. I just can't do it now.
09:33:04[Saint_]Its not really until one sees that mockup that it becomes obvious that I'm using a metric f**k-tonne of viewports.
09:35:48JdGordonyou're using too many :)
09:37:03[Saint_]Nah, I don't think that "one viewport per item, even if static" is "wrong" per se...and think how difficult it'd be for you to work out positioning of individual images in a shared viewport if I didn't :)
09:37:17[Saint_]I had rotation aware positioning in mind from the get go.
09:37:26JdGordonright
09:37:37 Quit lebellium_gs2 (Quit: Bye)
09:37:46JdGordonbut then you manually place them anyway, and rejected my viewport relative positioning scheme
09:38:15*JdGordon thinks we really are past the point where the skin engine just inst bloody good enough
09:39:04[Saint_]I went with what was currently implemented. Otherwise I would've been constantly redoing my work or sitting around waiting for some implementation to be finished or the bugs to be knocked out of it.
09:39:11[Saint_]I can't build themes with dreams :)
09:40:13JdGordonbugger :p
09:41:32JdGordonany suggestions for the tag for "draw rectangle"?
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10:00
10:03:30[Saint_]is %dr too obvious?
10:04:22[Saint_] /most/ of our tags seem to at least try and be some form of acronym of their function or description.
10:04:31[Saint_](with a few glaring exceptions)
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10:09:59JdGordon%dr is what im testing with, yeah
10:10:14JdGordonwhat are the cabbie backdrop gradient start/end values?
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10:17:18YoubiHello
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10:17:55Youbisometimes, while listening music, i get sort of jumps forward
10:18:31[Saint_]JdGordon: "Rockbox Grey" CCCCCC and "True Black" 000000
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10:19:01[Saint_]Youbi: check your filesystem
10:19:11YoubiAs if 1 second of the song was eaten by the codec
10:19:29Youbi[Saint_]: i’ll try it
10:22:44YoubiNothing wrong :/
10:24:15gevaerts[Saint_]: if we wouldn't do any work unless the direction we want has been decided, rockbox would still only be half-working on the AJB
10:24:32[Saint_]WHat device is this, and, what version of Rockbox are you running?
10:24:34gevaertsThe way the direction is decided is by proving that an approach works
10:26:01[Saint_]gevaerts: Oh, sure...but from my standpoint I'm unwilling to say "Yes, its sane to go down this route" when in all likelihood someone else, or multiple someone elses, will likely pull it in a different direction.
10:26:12YoubiI’m running 3.9.1 on a sansa clip+
10:26:18[Saint_]I just didn't want to personally say "Yes, do that".
10:27:06[Saint_]Youbi: That build is very old.
10:27:14[Saint_]Please try with at least the current release.
10:27:36[Saint_]Preferably with a build from HEAD
10:28:20YoubiOk, thanks :)
10:29:18gevaerts[Saint_]: with that reasoning nobody would ever offer any opinion at all!
10:30:02[Saint_]Youbi: The upside of installing the current build (not the current release) is that you will have functional USB in Rockbox.
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10:31:07YoubiOh, great
10:31:15[Saint_]gevaerts: Not necessarily, no. I treat this as different insofar as in some situations, no one knows what to do, so any suggestion is a good one. In this situation there's at least three individuals working on the idea, all with slightly or not so slightly different visipons on how to approach it.
10:31:19YoubiBut is there a way to install rockbox without the GUI ?
10:31:51[Saint_]Yes, of course there is. But it is far easier to do so with RBUtil.
10:32:22[Saint_]The manual method involves checking out mkamsboot from the Rockbox Git repository, and patching a firmware manually.
10:32:34YoubiYes, but get qt and compil with is boring.
10:32:48YoubiOh god. So KISS
10:34:08[Saint_]RBUtil is specifically designed to "just do everything for you". It is by far the easiest method of installation.
10:35:28gevaerts[Saint_]: uhm, there *are* mkamsboot binaries available for download
10:37:19[Saint_]Well, yeah, sure. Good point. Its still orders of magnitude easier to use RBUtil though.
10:37:51YoubiYes, but qt is so… lightweigt…
10:38:07pixelmaI wouldn't think that for using the Rockbox Utility compiling is involved
10:38:13gevaertsYoubi: you don't actually have to build it yourself, you know
10:38:29[Saint_]pixelma: ?
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10:39:33Youbigevaerts: yes, unless i wanna use current version
10:39:53[Saint_]Youbi: The point of having a GUI installer is that someone already did the work for you.
10:39:55[Saint_]see: http://www.rockbox.org/download/
10:40:07[Saint_]you can still install the current version with RBUtil.
10:40:44[Saint_]In fact, you can install the release, the current, and archived daily builds unless I'm mistaken.
10:41:04pixelmaor do you mean a current version of the Utility? I'm a bit confused
10:42:01[Saint_]Well, if he does: http://tinyurl.com/rbutil-dev
10:42:47gevaerts[Saint_]: only windows binaries there I believe
10:42:56YoubiI was confused too :/, i’ll use RButil to install last version of rockbox
10:42:59YoubiSorry
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11:26:12JdGordonwould anyone mind if i change the default for dircache to be OFF for sim builds?
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11:29:55CIA-44Commit cde74aa in rockbox by 03Amaury Pouly: (Author: Jean-Louis Biasini) Fuze+: update minor keymaps mapping for manual consistency/simplicity
11:31:20CIA-44Commit dcc78cb in rockbox by 03Amaury Pouly: (Author: Jean-Louis Biasini) Fuze+/calendar's plugin update keymaps and manual
11:31:25[Saint_]JdGordon: I wouldn't see why not, but, what is the reasoning for doing so?
11:32:34JdGordonbecause it takes about 15s to start debugging once i simlink my music directory into simdisk so its usable
11:32:46CIA-44cde74aa build result: 4 errors, 1 warnings (Jean-Louis Biasini committed)
11:32:54gevaertsOh, is that why?
11:33:01*gevaerts doesn't mind
11:34:55pamauryhum, someone should fix warble
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11:35:39CIA-44dcc78cb build result: 0 errors, 2 warnings (Jean-Louis Biasini committed)
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11:41:19evilnickJdGordon: Why not use a subdirectory of your music directory?
11:41:34evilnickNot that I mind either :)
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12:31:03JdGordon[Saint_]: re: removig CustomWPS, sure, but someone needs to fix the manual
12:31:14JdGordonand personally i think the manual is the wrong place for it anyway
12:32:06[Saint_]JdGordon: I started compiling a list of missing tags that night. And I'll be comparing that with the parser code to make sure I haven't missed any.
12:32:46[Saint_]And, I kinda agree...but the manual is "the official documentation" and there's an air of obligation to update it, while the wiki can go untouched for a long time.
12:33:14JdGordonyes, there should be a seperate proper guide to skinning that doesnt belong in the manual
12:37:14JdGordonseriously, to do it properly it needs a full chapter of explanation, in addition to the existing tag listing
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12:45:29JdGordonIdeally *not* written in TeX because that sucks ass!
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12:47:05evilnickThe theme language has evolved to the point (with all the viewports) that to a non-programmer, it's completely opaque and there's a huge barrier to entry to get started on making a nice theme (I think)
12:48:01JdGordonright
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12:48:10evilnickArtist-y people and people with a bent for programming is a pretty small overlap, I'd think :)
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12:53:15Zagorevilnick: time to dig in and make a gui theme editor then. how hard can it be?
12:54:00Torneheh
12:54:27*Torne might suggest a much more verbose and "magic" theme language (e.g. not having to manually specify viewports and the like), and a compiler for it
12:54:50CIA-44Commit 014a08c in rockbox by 03Jonathan Gordon: skin_engine: New tag to draw a rectangle (optionally with a gradient)
12:55:10Zagorright, readable keywords instead of tags would probably help a bit
12:55:10 Quit [Saint_] (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
12:55:28Tornewell, also i'm thinking of things like a hierarchical structure so you can specify layering more sensibly, etc
12:55:46Tornesomething that requires a "real" parser
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12:55:58JdGordonXML!
12:56:10Torneif you like. it's not the worst way.
12:56:16Tornei'd prefer not, but that wouldn' tbe terrible
12:56:59JdGordondoing it in a gui is always going to be better
12:57:14TorneYou say that, but people still write HTML in a text editor instead of in a WYSIWYG editor
12:57:15evilnickIt would be an improvement to what we have now - from the perspective of someone who wanted to make a theme but was put off by the arcane %sT|50|42|a|b|c style of things :)
12:57:30TorneNamed keywords, named attributes, and grouping/nesting, would go a long way
12:57:36evilnickTorne: THIS!
12:57:47CIA-44014a08c build result: 132 errors, 0 warnings (Jonathan Gordon committed)
12:57:53JdGordonevilnick: we havnt had that syntax for more than a year!
12:58:10JdGordonarg
12:58:14TorneXML would be one way to do that which a lot of people are already familiar with in concept
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12:58:40Tornei'd probably do it in YAML :)
12:58:56evilnickIt wasn't a serious example, but I bet I can find something similar from CabbieV2, or at least [Saint]'s work on the RaaAa port
13:00
13:01:03JdGordonTorne: I think the bigger issue is the difficulty in seeing the output more than writitng it
13:01:09JdGordonwhich is why the editor would be better
13:01:25Tornei'm really not sure that's true
13:01:35evilnickI disagree
13:01:36ZagorJdGordon: you have my vote. go go go! :-)
13:01:43Tornecouldn't the simulator grow the ability to preview a skin "live"?
13:01:54Tornebeing edited by an arbitrary external editor
13:02:01Torneand jsut re-parsing and redisplaying it when it changes
13:02:06JdGordoni suppose checkwps *could*
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13:02:16ZagorTorne: that's a neat idea
13:02:24Tornewell, i say the simulator because then we could reuse the entire existing skin engine
13:02:27Torne100% compatibility
13:02:29evilnickTo me, having more explicit names for the various tags would help the new artist understand what each of them are doing.
13:02:39TorneThat on its own might be a great help, even with the current syntax :)
13:02:58Torneit doesn't have the divergence problem that an editor would
13:03:05Torne(and did, in fact)
13:03:06JdGordonsure
13:03:10evilnickWasn't there some talk a while back about using XML (or YAML!) which would get "compiled" into the proper theme language?
13:03:26Torneprobably :)
13:03:32evilnickAs like an additional layer so that it'd be human-readable
13:03:39Torneif the input format was sufficiently reasonable you could do the compilation in a plugin, even
13:03:44CIA-44Commit 182a6c8 in rockbox by 03Jonathan Gordon: Fix compile errors
13:03:50Torneand then people would be able to load the human readable ones on device.
13:04:19Tornebut anyway. changing the format is kinda independant of how to make edit/preview easier
13:04:51Tornei think getting the simulator to be able to reload a being-externally-edited skin "live", and give you parsing errors or output, as appropriate, would be great, and probably not that hard
13:05:20Tornemuch easier than implementing a working WYSIWYG editor
13:05:39evilnickAnd it'd stay up-to-date without any additional effort
13:05:43Torneindeeed
13:05:44*evilnick likee
13:05:51Torneplus people can actually play music, change settings, etc
13:05:59Torneto see trivially how the skin changes as state changes
13:06:37CIA-44182a6c8 build result: All green
13:06:50JdGordonif you add the bits to get notified if the loaded skin file changes on disk, i'll make the rest work
13:07:02*JdGordon reall needs to get debugging going in the sim again too
13:07:08Tornethat sounds reasonable
13:07:17Tornea basic attempt could just poll, which will work on all OSes :p
13:07:27Tornejust poll stat() in the background every few seconds
13:07:30Tornenot a big deal on a host PC
13:07:41Torneand reload if mtime changes
13:08:00Torneactual file-chagne notification might be nice, but is probably not worth it for this limited case
13:09:49JdGordonstep 1, fix the lack of debugging in the sim
13:10:08Tornewell, that's also kinda independant, i think
13:10:12Torneit would definitely be nice.
13:19:44 Quit evilnick (Quit: Bye)
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13:21:08wodzIs anyone looking at test builds functionality of our buildfarm?
13:26:42JdGordon[Saint__]: soo.... don't kill me buuuuut.....
13:26:56CIA-44Commit 5edae54 in rockbox by 03Jonathan Gordon: skin_engine: Reenable skin debugging in the sim (use −−debugwps)
13:27:31[Saint__]What, why would I?
13:27:54[Saint__]It's been a long time coming :)
13:27:59JdGordon:) because it was a 5min fix that should have been done months ago
13:28:50[Saint__]*cough* year(s)? *cough*
13:29:21[Saint__]Its been broken since before the very first 'bug's skin break :)
13:29:23CIA-445edae54 build result: 23 errors, 3 warnings (Jonathan Gordon committed)
13:29:35JdGordonGROAN
13:29:40[Saint__]*big skin break
13:29:53gevaertsJdGordon: probably not yours
13:30:07JdGordonyay, they arent :)
13:30:24gevaertscb9bc3b got exactly the same error
13:30:44gevaertsBy the way, would that be safe for 3.11?
13:31:00JdGordonsure
13:31:05gevaertsMost people make skins for stable releases I think
13:31:14JdGordonok, hang on
13:31:54CIA-44Commit 9837bc3 in rockbox v3.11 by 03Jonathan Gordon: skin_engine: Reenable skin debugging in the sim (use −−debugwps)
13:31:59JdGordontoo easy :)
13:32:12gevaertsThanks!
13:32:19gevaertsSlasheri: ping
13:32:20JdGordonnot like crappy svn! :D
13:32:44*gevaerts wants to disable dircache persistence in 3.11
13:32:56[Saint__]Now...if only there was an existing 480x800 target...
13:33:07JdGordonuse the sdl-app if you can build it
13:35:02JdGordonit would be nice if the sdl-app simulator target built
13:38:12*[Saint__] thinks that sdl apps (in the existing supported raaa resolutions) and device specific sims should be in the build system.
13:38:34[Saint__]Perhaps not built per-commit, but, daily. It'd be nice.
13:39:02gevaerts[Saint__]: for which OS?
13:39:25[Saint__]ALL TEH OSes!
13:39:30gevaertsAlso, the sims are in there!
13:39:33*gevaerts hides
13:40:27[Saint__]Are they in there like RaaA is in there? As in built but never distributed?
13:40:36gevaertsyes
13:40:48[Saint__]Stoopid.
13:40:50gevaertsWhy?
13:40:51[Saint__]:)
13:41:05gevaertsDistributing them isn't a three minute change
13:41:24[Saint__]Because sims are useful, and were it not for rasher there wouldn't be any.
13:41:34[Saint__]*any available
13:41:59rasherthey're built on Linux
13:42:10rasherso not terribly useful for distributing
13:42:17gevaertsWhy they should be available ideally and why not having them uploaded is stupid are two rather different questions
13:43:27[Saint__]rasher: there's not /too/ much involved to build on Linux for Windows (wrt sims)
13:44:04gevaertsThere is. You're asking for people to install the same mingw environment on rather diverse systems
13:44:17rasherAnd also compile sdl
13:44:20gevaertsThat's *not* trivial
13:44:22rasherwhich is a bit annoying
13:44:46rasherCould be done on at least "enough" systems that it was there, I bet
13:45:08[Saint__]It only need be one machine, really. Hell, even if they were done weekly it'd be a massive improvement IMO.
13:45:49[Saint__]You can also just grab an SDL binary pre-built, no need to build one (which I'll admit is a pita).
13:46:13rasherYou need sdl stuff for building don't you?
13:46:17gevaertsSo what you're basically asking for rasher's stuff to be hosted on rockbox.org somewhere?
13:46:30gevaertss/what//
13:47:25[Saint__]Not /really/, but, close. I'd also like more targets added (namely sdl apparently for the supported raaa resolutions).
13:47:38[Saint__]Then the sims would be "complete".
13:48:29[Saint__]I've noticed people freak out at the warning rasher gives re: his sims, and think their systems will explode or the world will end if they use them...that is, if they find them.
13:49:09rasherI build my sims using the release script, so it's not like it takes a lot of work
13:49:11[Saint__]The warning is justified, but people see it as "unofficial" and not to he trusted.
13:49:15[Saint__]*be
13:49:57gevaerts[Saint__]: to be honest, I trust rasher's sims more than I'd trust sims built by the build system :)
13:49:59Tornerasher: if you're willing to keep that going it seems reasonable that we could host that on rockbox.org, with a notice saying it's best-effort :)
13:50:06*[Saint__] sees an autocomplete error.
13:50:22rasherThere's actually no warning on the sims page I think?
13:50:23[Saint__]s/apparently/app/
13:50:25rasherJust the android builds
13:50:36gevaertsI can't find a warning anyway
13:51:11ZagorI can create an upload account if you think we should host them on rockbox.org instead
13:51:14[Saint__]Hum...my mistake, sorry. I must've confused the android builds.
13:52:58[Saint__]Would it be a massive f**k-tonne of effort to add Windows SDL sims as well? I assume people would also like to "test-drive" raaa as well.
13:53:07gevaerts[Saint__]: yes
13:53:18[Saint__]That's a shame.
13:53:20gevaertsAFAIK that won't even build currently
13:54:05rasherZagor: if everyone's fine with it, just say the word
13:55:19[Saint__]Now jd has fixed up skin debugging, the sims are also quite useful again for themers too.
13:56:46rasherI'm often tardy about making the release sims though :\
13:58:58gevaertsrasher: any reason for that apart from not remembering?
13:59:32rasherNot really, no
13:59:51rasherAlso it takes effort! Finding the release tag and checking out to it :)
14:00
14:00:06gevaertsWell, yes :)
14:00:18rasherBut no good reason, no
14:00:25gevaertsBut that means adding "poke rasher" to the release checklist would probably help a bit at least
14:00:45rasherheh, yeah
14:01:08 Quit mortalis (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
14:01:14*gevaerts makes a note of this :)
14:04:08[Saint__]I'm going to be overhauling my home server in a few weeks, and when I do so I'll have ~90% of the previous server as superfluous, and a fat pipe with unlimited data. When the time comes, I'll look into dedicating that to building windows/linux sdl apps, and possibly sharing some of rasher's machine's workload for the sims if necessary.
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14:39:23***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:00
15:01:35CIA-44Commit a4fd5bf in rockbox by 03Amaury Pouly: imx233: enable charging in bootloader USB mode by including powermgmt
15:01:35CIA-44Commit 9caffa8 in rockbox by 03Amaury Pouly: imx233/fuze+: rework i2c and fmradio_i2c init
15:04:18CIA-449caffa8 build result: All green
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16:22:34Thra11When plugged in, what is the significance of the flashing lightning bolt on the battery as opposed to the plug symbol?
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16:26:16dfktplugged in, and plugged in + charging
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16:36:35Thra11ok. thought it might be. It used to be different, so for a while I wasn't sure if the icons had changed or my battery had started doing something different
16:38:19[Saint]Are you talking about a particular theme?
16:38:58[Saint]If you're talking about the default, it hasn't changed in...a looooooong time.
16:39:18Thra11Hmmm. just the theme I use has changed then
16:39:27***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:40:07Thra11Which is a bit odd, since when I upgraded rockbox I'm not sure I downloaded a newer version of the theme..
16:40:28[Saint]What theme is this?
16:41:01Thra11let me check
16:42:27Thra11CabbieV3mod I think
16:43:27[Saint]Settings - Theme Settings - Browse Themes
16:43:38[Saint]will tell you definitively.
16:44:11Thra11nope. just lists all available themes. no indication which one is active
16:44:28 Quit mortalis (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.1 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
16:44:44[Saint]The active theme should be the one highlighted on entry.
16:45:58Thra11the one highlighted is the one at the top of the list. but anyway, it's definitely CabbieV3mod
16:47:00[Saint]If you didn't specifically update it, it didn't update.
16:47:10Thra11True
16:47:44[Saint]RBUtil does nothing automatically (not in this sense, at least).
16:47:59[Saint]So, you probably only just noticed it.
16:48:26Thra11RBUtil does nothing whatsoever if you don't use it :p
16:49:11Thra11I guess either I didn't notice it before, or I redownloaded the theme and forgot
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16:50:07[Saint]You can easily check when the last theme update was on the website.
16:52:16[Saint]I'm fairly confident cabbiev3 just uses the built in status bar, though, which definitely hasn't changed.
16:54:56[Saint]I don't recall touching it at least, and even if I did it was a couple of years ago. There's a chance cabbiev3 uses its own status bar but I seem to recall it just uses the built in one.
16:57:07*Mir thinks cabbie3 is more popular than rockboxed
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16:57:37Miri could be wrong
16:57:44*Mir lurks off
16:57:55*[Saint] thinks that's a very speculative statement
16:58:33Mirit is
16:58:34bakdafukup_2002ez peeps... i was wondering if their is anyway to increase the transfer speed im only gettin like 20kb/s when transfering to my device?
16:59:26Mirbakdafukup_2002: is there anything else transfering large amoutns of data on the USB interface?
17:00
17:00:14bakdafukup_2002not at the same time i dont
17:00:29Miri found that if i am transfering multiple groups of files like lets say 4 different discogropharies in FLAC my speeds slows down to 56kb/s
17:00:51*gevaerts misses some rather essential information
17:00:54Mirwhile if i do one i get 5mb/s
17:01:04gevaertsSuch as model, OS used, rockbox version
17:01:18bakdafukup_2002yeah, that was the speed i was getting doing them one by one lol
17:02:04bakdafukup_2002could it be my ipod?
17:03:01[Saint]It could be a host of things, but you've given approximately no information to discern the problem if any.
17:03:38 Quit Thra11 (Quit: kthxbai)
17:06:12bakdafukup_2002well i told you all i know.. Its transferring slow and i was curious if they're ways of increasing the speed
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17:08:18Mirand i mentioned it might not be the ipod
17:08:21evilnickYou've told us very little! What model of ipod, what OS on your computer, what version of rockbox all can affect the transfer speed
17:08:25Mirit may be some background thing
17:08:51*Mir agrees with evilnick
17:09:33bakdafukup_2002its a ipod classic 120gb running hte newest version of rockbox and im on windows 7 64bit
17:09:56Mir3.9, 3.10 or 3.11 or daily builds
17:10:19gevaertsMir: there are no 3.x releases for the classic
17:10:22evilnickThe newest version? What does it say under System > Rockbox Info
17:10:25gevaertsAnd there's no 3.11 for anything
17:10:54gevaertsAlso, I got confused earlier. Did you say it's faster if you only start one single copy operation at a time?
17:11:25Mirthats what happens for me
17:11:28bakdafukup_2002its the same speed for me if i add one folder at a time or many
17:12:21evilnickIf you start one copy operation of one artist folder (for example) and then another copy operation, and then another, then each copy operation can only use a fraction of the 5MB/s speed
17:12:24bakdafukup_2002the version is r31516-120101
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17:12:37gevaertsThat's ages old, not current
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17:12:42bakdafukup_2002oh
17:13:18bakdafukup_2002well i had to use emcore to be able load it on the classic
17:14:00bakdafukup_2002i just used what they told me to download, figured it was the newest version.... can i download the newest version and just add it?
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17:15:33[Saint]Of course, however, if you read while you were installing it you would know that USB on the Classic is very highly sub-optimal.
17:15:44[Saint]Its a known issue.
17:17:04[Saint]It doesn't even mount on some operating systems. Basically, be thankful it does transfer at all.
17:17:15Miris that release december 1st 2001?
17:17:33gevaertsMir: huh?
17:17:35evilnickMir: Probably 2012-01-01
17:17:42Mirwhew
17:17:42[Saint]Mir.....seriously?
17:17:50[Saint]Think dude, think.
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17:18:02Miri did
17:18:02evilnickOr it could have been before the iPod Classic was designed :)
17:18:08Mirusualy month day year
17:18:25[Saint]Obviously, as that's perfectly sane, right? ;)
17:18:51[Saint]We always have ports out before the product its designed for is even invented.
17:18:59Miralso i only recently rolled out of bed onto the keyboard so i am not fully awake
17:19:02[Saint]We're really timelords.
17:19:09Miryea
17:19:18Mirtime is only a wibbly wobbly thing
17:19:22scorche|shevilnick: the first ipod was only 2 or so months old at that time
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17:19:31bakdafukup_2002alright guys.... cheers for the help...
17:19:41evilnickscorche|sh: Can't get much more classic than the original...
17:20:39Miron the Fuze to get the rockbox usb connectivity do i have to wait until 3.11 comes out or is it avalible on the daily builds
17:21:34[Saint]You could always try and see, no?
17:22:06Miri'd rather not kill the fuze like i did the clipv2
17:22:13Mirwhich didnt brick
17:22:16Mirit died
17:22:56[Saint]Ok, then don't update ever and live in fear for the rest of your life. Its up to you. ;)
17:23:21Mirhehe
17:23:45Mirthe reason i ask is on the wiki it says something about upgrading to the "current build"
17:24:14[Saint]Right, so, you think its a fallacy there just to trick you?
17:24:17Miri just needed some claification on what "current build" is
17:24:26Mirno
17:24:35gevaertsMir: how long have you been in this channel now?
17:24:39evilnickIt's a build that looks a little like a raisin
17:24:43[Saint]Current build == (wait for it...) current build, unsurprisingly.
17:25:03Mir:|
17:25:11scorche|shi thought it was the build for devices that want to charge faster
17:25:24Mirso that means its still the 3.10 build which has no usb connectivity
17:25:31[Saint]Nah, that's the high-current build.
17:25:36[Saint]:)
17:25:42gevaertsMir: a current build is a build of current source code
17:25:43Mirok
17:26:02[Saint]Mir: really? You're actually serious aren't you?
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17:26:09Miryes
17:26:21Miri am serious
17:26:54[Saint]We have a distinction between release and current for a reason. Current is always a later version than the release.
17:27:40Mirwhere does the daily build fit in?
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17:28:16gevaertsThat's basically a current build from at most one day old
17:28:26Mirok
17:28:28[Saint]Release can be anywhere up to 4 months old, current can be updated several times per day, daily (unsurprisingly) is built once daily, to clarify.
17:28:51Mirthats good to know
17:28:58Mirthank you for clarifying
17:29:22[Saint]Is the wording non-obvious? Could we improve on it somehow?
17:29:31Mirno
17:29:34[Saint](Serious question)
17:29:47ZagorI guess "current" could be called "latest"
17:31:01gevaertsI think changing that is going to be rather difficult
17:31:04Mirits just that "current" is much harder to find and the fact that daily is basicly == to current although it may be a few days older than 'current build' from what i understand you are telling me
17:31:21Mirrather not have it changed for one person
17:31:22*[Saint] votes for "Super-Happy-Fun-Time-Mega-Surprize Build"
17:31:31gevaertsI for one wouldn't know where to find the daily builds
17:31:33Mirjust a definition somewhere would be nice
17:31:53Mirthats another issue i had
17:32:23[Saint]Well, this is also why there's date stamps.
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17:32:42Mirthe wiki would not let me register so i could post some hardware for donation
17:33:13Mirkept saying my username was innappropriate
17:33:32*Mir doesnt know how Mir is an inappropriate username
17:33:57gevaertsThe instructions there do mention us wanting real names I think
17:34:08Mirahh
17:35:35Mirthat clarifies that.
17:35:37Mirthank you
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17:35:41*Mir lurks off to work
17:35:48[Saint]Reading instruction usually does.
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18:02:01jlbiasinipamaury: thanks for the push, are you planning some more modification on the bootloader soon? Or can I update the bootloader on the wiki page now?
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18:07:19pamauryYou should probably update it, charging in the bootloader is really useful
18:07:51jlbiasiniok
18:08:51jlbiasiniWe could test it like for a week and then send it on the server in order to have rockboxutility also handling it
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18:10:49pamauryyeah, we will need to do a bootloader at some point
18:11:27pamauryI have a question regarding g#173 : where did you get the image ?
18:11:29fs-bluebot3Gerrit review #173 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/#change,173 : Fuze+ simulator: update image with keys indication by Jean-Louis Biasini (changes/73/173/1)
18:12:44jlbiasinialso did you saw that? FS #12592 are you planning to work on it or can I start with it?
18:12:44fs-bluebothttp://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12592 3mkimxboot calls exit() on errors (bugs, new)
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18:14:57jlbiasinipamaury: the image is the one I made for the manual
18:15:09jlbiasiniI just added number on it
18:16:34jlbiasiniI made it from scratch in inkscape so no copyright issue here if this is your concern
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18:21:31jlbiasinipamaury: also regarding backlight and button issue, this one could be related: FS #12594
18:21:31fs-bluebothttp://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12594 3[Fuze+] Unexpected behavior of touchpad when backlight is off (bugs, new)
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18:37:31jlbiasinipamaury: wiki updated
18:37:39pamauryok thanks
18:38:22jlbiasiniso are you planning something on FS #12592
18:38:22fs-bluebothttp://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12592 3mkimxboot calls exit() on errors (bugs, new)
18:38:28jlbiasini?
18:38:35pamauryby the way, I will commit an update that add an ADC channel of which the value can be read in the debug menu, if you can have a look at it regularly and tell me if the value is really different from VddIO that would be nice
18:38:46pamauryjlbiasini: it's already fixed I think
18:38:55jlbiasiniah ok
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18:39:38pamauryI'll ask bluebrother but I fixed all calls to exit for really unlikely errors
18:40:12jlbiasinipamaury: I don't understand what do I could test?
18:40:33jlbiasiniwich value?
18:40:47jlbiasinibattery power?
18:40:57pamaurygo into debug menu > HW Info, third screen: there a few values (battery, vddio, vdd5v)
18:42:14pamauryI will add one called "channel 2". The OF reads it but I'm unable to determine what it does with it, so I'm trying to understand its meaning but I've never found a situation where it's mostly different from vddio
18:42:16jlbiasiniah ok so I'll wait your commit, update rockbox and go to this screen to compare the values
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18:48:44jlbiasinipamaury: is your last push supposed to solve radio bug?
18:49:00jlbiasinibecause on my device it won't
18:49:05pamauryno, it's just code simplification
18:49:40CIA-44Commit e07b22f in rockbox by 03Amaury Pouly: fuze+: add unknown channel to debug menu
18:50:08pamauryI'm now pretty convinced that the radio problem happen when some i2c transfers with the tuner chip fail
18:50:23pamaurythen the code never manages to read some registers again and get stuck in a loop
18:51:03jlbiasinibacklight seems to confuse the touchpad on other occasion to FS #12594
18:51:03fs-bluebothttp://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12594 3[Fuze+] Unexpected behavior of touchpad when backlight is off (bugs, new)
18:51:33pamauryyes, it creates some interferences it seems. The touchpad is also i2c driver
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18:51:35pamaury*driven
18:52:04CIA-44e07b22f build result: All green
18:52:09jlbiasiniI alos notice that somatime the touchpad run crazy
18:52:15pamauryyeah, me too
18:52:41jlbiasiniok I'll test the new value
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18:53:58pamauryI also noticed something which could explain some weird behaviours: VddIO is usually 3.6V (you can see the value in the debug menu, it's in mV). But sometimes, the OF bootloader will set it to 3.0V only and then the device runs strangely
18:54:10pamauryI need to reverse more code to understand this behaviour
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18:56:40jlbiasinipamaury: channel 2 *SEEMS* to be a little lower than vddIO like 10
18:57:45jlbiasinijep it's definitly a little lower
18:58:26pamaury10 is completely negligeable, it's within measurement error
18:58:44pamauryif you see a different greater than 100, then it matters
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18:59:02jlbiasinivddIO is about 3670 and channel 2 about 3650
18:59:11pamaurysame thing for me
18:59:23pamauryexcept when VddIO is 3000 but I think it's not normal
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20:15:15bertrikpamaury, any luck with the fuze+ fmradio stuff yet?
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20:45:42bertrikpamaury, candidates for the unknown adc channel could be battery temperature, charge current, or battery current
20:48:09saratogabattery current hsould be easy to test, just change the screen brightness
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21:03:08jlbiasinisaratoga: pamaury: so it's not battery current: i set backlight to 5 and still had the same value
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21:04:46bertrikjlbiasini, does it change at all?
21:06:29saratogaput it in the freezer and see if its a thermistor
21:07:25bertrikbut don't actually freeze it
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21:30:55jlbiasinithe fact is that the value is pretty close to another one that is in mV
21:31:31jlbiasini~3600
21:32:09jlbiasinisaratoga: bertrik: so that might not be a temperature
21:35:51jlbiasiniand no it doesn't seems to change.
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21:47:39bluebrotherjlbiasini: about your recent Rockbox Utility question: something I'd like to see implemented is a changelog dialog that can be used to (a) show the changes between Rockbox Utility releases and (b) the changes between Rockbox releases
21:48:22bluebrotherfor that a simple text input is to be used. The simplest case would be showing a plain text without any formatting
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21:48:54bluebrother(i.e. similar to the display of the speex license)
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21:58:28jlbiasinibluebrother: ok I will have a look at it
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22:23:02bertrikjlbiasini, do you know what the other ADC voltage channel is?
22:23:50bertrikI think I've seen on some sansas that there are two channels connected to the battery voltage, only during charging I see a difference
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23:03:42jlbiasinibertrik: you should talk with pamaury about it. I was just doing some test for him.
23:04:36jlbiasiniit seems the value is around 3600 but that sometime the OF set it 3000
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