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#rockbox log for 2012-04-15

00:03:49Thra11If, when updating rockbox I just cd to the root of the device and unzip rockbox.zip there, is there a chance that old files that no longer exist in the new rockbox aren't replaced, so just stay there?
00:04:15Torneyes
00:04:21Tornebut it doesn't really matter
00:04:35Torneyou may just end up with one or two plugins that if you try to load them, they fail
00:04:41Torneit won't actually break anything
00:04:57Thra11so if I wanted to be squeaky clean I'd rm /.rockbox first, then unzip the new one?
00:05:12Torneyou could, but then you'd lose all your settings, database, etc
00:05:19Tornethere really isn't any need
00:05:33Thra11I'd lose themes as well.
00:05:49Thra11Cool. I will proceed as normal :)
00:06:04Tornewe do occasionally delete/rename plugins and codecs, but that's about it
00:06:06Torneand only rarely
00:08:24 Quit enthdegree (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
00:41:20 Join tower_fell [0] (~tower@pD9F98AA7.dip.t-dialin.net)
00:43:15tower_fellHi, I've a few general questions, slightly development oriented, regarding fuze
00:44:16Miris there anyone doing development on the Sansa connect? If yes would they be interested in a spare Connect?
00:44:24funmanMir: check the forum thread
00:44:40Mirok
00:44:58tower_fellGetting hands on one soon, to liberate it...now I wonder if it's considered "safe" to put heavy load on the cpu for "as long as battery lasts"
00:45:07 Join antil33t [0] (~Ahurhurr@101.98.150.103)
00:46:30tower_fell(regarding a thread I've seen of fuze v2's overheating, I didn't get for sure if it was breakage by excessive backlight, or normal for them to heat up)
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00:52:01 Quit ender (Quit: We're not lost. We're locationally challenged.-- John M. Ford)
00:52:59tower_fellno ideas/experiences? I mean they've been designed for mp3 & tiny video playback, so I thought maybe they don't like being abused too hard?
00:53:20tower_fellI just don't want to break it right away :(
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00:57:36funmanoverheating comes from high setting for luminosity
00:57:44funmanthe CPU is cold as ice
00:58:19funmanfwiw it's also always running at 240MHz, lowering frequency didn't work
00:58:32funmanyou can use and abuse it as you wish
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01:03:24tower_fellwell that's great! frequency is not really a cause for heat, mostly it's load, the more a proc gets to bite the more it'll burn, normally...
01:04:40Tornethe majority of embedded CPUs can be run at full load indefinitely without any special thought paid to cooling. their peak power draw is just not that high.
01:05:02tower_fellbut if it's known freaks could play doom or rockboy for some hours w/o problems, I guess I'll be fine
01:05:21Tornethere are ARM cores way more powerful than anything in our supported players which have maximum power draws of <2W
01:05:51Tornethe fuze would probably struggle to draw 0.5W
01:07:23tower_fellok. soothed. instruction set of fuze is armv5te? I only have x86 experience, does it matter wether the whole thing runs in thump mode, and thus plugins would too?
01:07:49Tornewe don't use thumb
01:08:16tower_fellgreat, all questions answered :)
01:08:47tower_fellI guess I'll use thumb, i.e. of the right hand to manipulate buttons and such.
01:09:03funmanthere's a switch to give to configure to use thumb though
01:09:18funman−−thumb
01:09:34funmanbtw should we remove −−eabi/−−no-eabi now ?
01:10:13 Part SeaWeed ("WoW The ( World Wide Web Will Just Have To Do With Out Me Till I Return !! ")
01:10:31Tornefunman: that doesn't actually work properly though yet, does it?
01:10:42Tornei didn't think we'd finished all the interworking stuff and debugging all the random problems
01:10:51Torneyes, we should probably drop −−no-eabi
01:10:57Tornenobody has been using/updating that toolchain for a long time
01:11:05Torneand it's not even supporte din rockboxdev.sh any more, no?
01:11:09funmanTorne: yes it works fine since it's default on clipv1
01:11:37funmanon other platforms it might be buggy though but it's limited to target specific code
01:12:28Torneoh.
01:12:28funmanyeah it was removed in december
01:17:18tower_fella last one: once I want to test/debug my code, I guess I can compile it (and whole rockbox) for some sort of arm/linux system running in qemu using arm sdl libs? is such described a little somewhere, found nothing really helpful on the chaotic wiki!
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01:19:35Torneno
01:19:40Tornenot really.
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01:20:03Tornewell..
01:20:15Torneit depends exactly what you're doing. you can run stuff on the simulator
01:20:29Tornebut there isn't a lot of point in emualting ARM to run the simulator
01:20:43Torneyou might as well just run the simulator natively
01:20:50Tornesince it's not very representative anyway
01:21:42tower_felltweaking/debugging arm asm for graphics effects and synthesizing sounds, the ui simulator is probably not really suitable for such
01:21:44 Quit antil33t| (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
01:24:00Tornei'd suggest not writing assembly, for the mos tpart :)
01:24:15Tornealso, the simulator is a perfectly reasonable place to check graphics (though not the *performance* thereof)
01:24:27Tornethe graphics output functions work the same as real hardware
01:24:31Tornesound is a bit more complicated
01:24:33tower_fellSure, but if you want to debug c code, you better know the assembly
01:24:50Torne..not really, not in the last twenty years or so
01:25:04Torneit's perfectly simple to debug C code without knowing assembly :)
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01:25:47Torneit's not clear what you are actually trying to do
01:26:04tower_fellwriting plugins for rockbox, of course :P
01:26:20Torneright, but i don't see why assembly, or emulating ARM, is involved in that
01:26:24Tornewe don't :)
01:26:56Tornepeople writing plugins, if they don't want to have to test on real hardware, usually use the simulator for their normal native os/cpu
01:27:02*funman mentions plugins can be written in lua
01:27:23funmanbtw plugins run on non ARM platforms too
01:27:41TorneYah; generall we prefer that stuff not be CPU dependent unless it really has to be
01:28:53tower_fello.k. I'm just used to check asm from certain routines for performance reasons (i.e. identify bottlenecks, reorder code & recheck results and such). I always keep a pure, readable c version, in case you're troubbled by the thought of that
01:29:31Tornesure, but i still don't see what that has to do with how you test/debug
01:29:50Torneyou don't need to be able to run the code at all to look at the generated asm
01:29:51Torne:)
01:29:54Torneyou just look at it
01:30:23Tornealso, that kind of optimisation is very rarely important
01:30:35Torneespecially on a project that targets four completely different cpu architectures
01:30:40Tornewhich may well want contradictory changes :)
01:31:06Tornethe compiler knows better than you, for much less effort, almost always. in the cases where it doesn't, you generally *do* have to handwrite assmebly to fix it.
01:31:51Torneit should be very rare to be able to improve C code by reordering bits of it, if you have a modern compiler.
01:32:26tower_fellHmm, man, I just enjoy lowlevelism. but you're right, mostly it's waste of time.
01:34:56funmanif you like asm you should work on codecs
01:35:02tower_fellThat's why I'm so eager to code for that little device, even if it's useless stuff.
01:35:17Tornedo something useful instead? :)
01:35:29funmanor reverse engineer the USB driver and fix it on nano2g
01:36:10tower_fellyes, I've some little projects of my own to get into it first, then, why not. I like optimizing, but haven't done rev-eng yet.
01:37:19tower_fellBut, I'm no pro, I do this for the fun of it, and have rather little experience.
01:39:24tower_fellI just like to learn stuff that's related to something flickering in rainbows, or sounding neat. but thanks for your attention, I'm off now. I be back when something useful is running.
01:39:52tower_fellkeep rocking the rockbox, is a cute little project! :)
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14:47:33bertrikAlexP, can you review/test a patch for upside mode on the beast?
14:48:00AlexPbertrik: Yes, but not until this evening at some point
14:48:10AlexPI'm not a home at the moment and my beast is :)
14:48:21AlexPIs it on gerrit?
14:48:35bertrikno, it's a very old patch on flyspray FS #10345
14:48:36fs-bluebothttp://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/10345 3Gigabeat: Switch volume buttons in Upside Down mode (patches, unconfirmed)
14:48:50AlexPOK, I'll try later on
14:48:55bertrikthanks
14:48:59AlexPno worries
14:49:41bertrikwe do actually have some rather old patches that are nice and non-controversial :)
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14:55:01AlexPbertrik: I refuse to believe it )
14:58:00gevaertsI strongly believe that any non-controversial patch on the tracker was posted when many people were on vacation and didn't see it
14:58:30AlexPThat sounds reasonable
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15:39:03bertrikpamaury, can you confirm that FS #12592 is fixed now?
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15:43:10pamauryI think so, at least bluebrother didn't report me any more failures
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15:46:06bertrikOk, I'll close it then
15:47:23bertrikclosed, just 613 open tasks to go! :D
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16:00:29bertrikoh nice, the keypad of the gigabeat F is called simply GIGABEAT_PAD, while for the gigabeat S it's called GIGABEAT_S_PAD
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16:04:29bertrikAlexP, the patch I asked you about, turns out to apply only to the gigabeat F and X, not the gigabeat S
16:08:06gevaertsbertrik: it probably should also be done for GIGABEAT_S_PAD though
16:08:46gevaertsAccording to the config headers, the S does have HAVE_LCD_FLIP, and it does have the volume buttons on the side like the F
16:09:34bertrikyes, I'll update the patch to include the S
16:09:59gevaertsI'm having a look at the manual images. I imagine there are more players like this
16:18:41gevaertsbertrik: I think that apart from the gigabeats you also want PHILIPS_HDD1630_PAD PHILIPS_HDD6330_PAD MPIO_HD200_PAD SANSA_CLIP_PAD SANSA_FUZEPLUS_PAD
16:19:05bertrikI think I'll leave the scope of that specific patch to just the gigabeats
16:19:15gevaertsAlthough I'm not entirely sure about MPIO_HD200_PAD
16:19:27bluebrotherpamaury: well, I don't know if _all_ error paths have been covered. The important ones at least do :)
16:20:09pamaurybluebrother: there are some exit left but only for critical errors which normally can't happen
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16:21:28bluebrotherwell, "normally can't happen" doesn't mean it can't happen at all ...
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16:21:55bluebrothereither way, the major problem is fixed.
16:22:04*bluebrother grumbles about the mkamsboot API
16:23:48bertrikoh, there's an API for that? ;)
16:25:21bluebrotherwell, that thing that's called from Rockbox Utility
16:31:31pamaurybluebrother: the ones left are things like default in a switch which must handle all cases for example
16:31:44pamaurywhat is the problem with mkamsboot ?
16:32:56bluebrotherpamaury: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms235460%28v=vs.80%29.aspx
16:33:26bluebrotherit's effectively broken if you want to use it as DLL. And from a point of working with objects / dynamic memory as well.
16:33:39bluebrotherthe one allocating things should also deallocate, not trust on someone else doing it.
16:33:58bluebrothera better way would be to save some state instead, like mp3lame does
16:35:26bluebrotherhaving some state structure could also simplify function calls a lot
16:35:50bertrikah, and you can't allocate a buffer and pass that to mkamsboot because you don't know in advance how big it will be
16:37:01bluebrotheryes (well, the way it's done right now)
16:37:44pamaurybut mkimxboot is not better right ?
16:38:08bluebrotherthe loading (and allocation) could be done outside of mkamsboot though.
16:38:22bluebrotherhaven't checked that. If it uses the same kind of logic it's not better, I'm afraid
16:40:24pamaurymkimxboot does everything based on filenames
16:40:46pamaurybut I will need change that in future versions
16:41:19bluebrotherwhy that?
16:41:47bluebrotherthe other annoying thing is how mkamsboot returns error messages. That makes it impossible to translate some errors. Like the one with known firmware versions
16:43:44pamauryah no sorry, that's the sb api which I will change
16:43:54pamaurymkimxboot will stay as it is
16:44:25pamauryand mkimxboot has clear error return codes
16:48:29bluebrotherwell, the better.
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16:48:54bluebrotherthough passing FILE* instead of filenames isn't that bad since it avoids converting filenames around between encodings
16:49:02bluebrotherwhich might break
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16:49:41pamaurycan you passe CRT object like FILE * ?
16:50:30pamauryalso why do you want them as DLL ?
16:50:35bluebrotherah right, FILE* is CRt as well
16:50:49bluebrotherbecause that's the only way I can use VS on Windows
16:51:10pamaurywhy is that ? can't it link it statically ?
16:52:02bluebrotherit can't build some of the code, so it needs to be in a DLL created by MinGW
16:52:34bluebrothereven VS2010 doesn't support C99
16:52:39bluebrotherwhich is pretty annoying
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20:15:31wodzgevaerts: about what you have doubts with HD200 - I can't understand from the logs?
20:17:59gevaertswodz: there's a setting somewhere to flip the display, and targets with separate volume buttons (sometimes) invert those buttons when that's set. Most such players have the volume buttons on the side where I think this makes sense, but the HD200 seems to have them on the top, and I'm not sure if they should be reversed when the display is flipped
20:19:26wodzyes, volume buttons are on the top. I would leave it as is
20:19:51gevaertsI have to admit that I don't entirely get the usefulness of that "flip display" setting anyway
20:21:23wodzits one of this settings of type "we just can do this" I guess
20:25:52gevaertsYes. I wonder if anyone actually uses it
20:28:19wodzgevaerts: any progress with mrobe100?
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20:29:09bertrikgevaerts, I think pixelma once told me she uses it
20:29:23gevaertsno. I can reproduce it, but the total lack of clues means I haven't done much about it. Also, while I do own an mr100, I don't know much about it
20:32:05wodzgevaerts: is enough to revert just this one commit?
20:32:32wodzI mean to restore sound
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20:33:09gevaertsSound works in the revision before it. I don't think it's possible to revert that commit from HEAD
20:35:47funmandoes jhMikeS have an idea about it ?
20:36:44bertrikperhaps just lack of memory?
20:37:22gevaertsbertrik: it has 32MB
20:39:08bertrikdoes sound work with the fallback (no theme) theme?
20:39:28gevaertsI haven't tried that. Good idea
20:39:39gevaertsThe buffering thread data in the debug menu look normal. Everything works as far as I can see, just not as far as I can hear...
20:39:56funmanhum and now i remember jean-louis(?) mentioned different themes affected USB on AMSv2
20:40:08lebelliumyep, my them
20:40:10lebelliumtheme
20:41:17gevaertsfailsafe doesn't change things
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21:10:09AlexPbertrik: Seems to work fine
21:10:26AlexPthe cross fucntions are reversed, as is the volume rocker
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21:11:09AlexPAlthough I fail to see why anyone would want an upside down ,ode
21:11:11AlexP*mode
21:11:47gevaertsAustralians, maybe?
21:12:13AlexPCould be
21:12:27AlexPAlthough seeing as they are also upside down, it would appear to be correct to them
21:13:13wodzkugel: how does configure determine arm variant?
21:15:37CIA-44Commit 05ebf79 in rockbox by 03Rafaël Carré: configure: remove support for ARM non EABI compiler
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21:51:24kugelwodz: predefined cpp defines
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21:53:19wodzkugel: so it is determined by how host gcc was setup right?
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22:04:42KiwiCamHi. I note that because I've used the same name for my ALiEn theme, ported from the Clip+ to the Zip, that only one or the other appears on this page http://themes.rockbox.org/index.php?allthemes - Should I arrange for the name of the Zip theme to be named slightly differently, or can this be fixed on the site?
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22:44:31bertrikAlexP, thanks for testing
22:45:37bertrikgevaerts, still no luck with the mrobe?
22:45:53gevaertsbertrik: I'm not actively working on it
22:48:49AlexPbertrik: no worries
22:49:12AlexPwho worked on the mrobe port?
22:55:29bertrikMark Arigo and Robert Kukla it seems
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22:57:48AlexPHmmm, neither are around too much
22:57:58AlexPJust thinking they might have some idea :)
22:59:09bertrikI wonder if it also affects the mr-500, or if it happens in the sim too
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23:01:16bertrikgevaerts, have you checked the stacks?
23:01:20gevaertsyes
23:07:09bertrikhm, audio plays in the sim, but the theme doesn't look quite right
23:07:28bertrikI don't see the artist/song name in the WPS for example
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23:16:26bertrikand UP seems to act as both UP and as PLAY
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23:18:02bertrikoh, and now I have a negative number of bytes allocated in the mem allocs screen in the sim
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23:29:41CIA-44Commit e92fbb4 in rockbox by 03Bertrik Sikken: FS #10345 - Gigabeat: Switch volume buttons in Upside Down mode
23:31:39CIA-44e92fbb4 build result: All green
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